Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Josh Luthman]

I had a car hit our cabinets on Oct 5.  I submitted paperwork on Oct 6.  I
billed for my time, my techs' time, new cabinets, batteries, disposal of
the old batteries (they were destroyed), and a small $250 outage charge
since the neighborhood was without internet for 3 hours.

Since 9am today, for about an hour, I've been on hold with All State to get
some sort of answer.  They said 7-14 business days or something which
obviously hasn't been the case.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 10:25 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> The damages we have been paid on, we have not submitted much of a
> detailed bill. Simple description of the damaged facilities, relevant
> facts, and Cost to Repair: $.xx.
> Have been paid by local power company, auto insurance, and our
> customers. Have an $8000 damage invoice out to local road commission
> currently for mowing 3 pedestals and may have to fight on that one.
> Good luck!
>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 6:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> >
> > Depends on the company.  I generally get a check in about a month or two
> > from smaller guys.  Larger companies you may have to gin up a small clams
> > complaint and fire it across their bow to get their attention.  If they
> > ignore it just file the thing.  They probably will not show to the
> hearing
> > if they are dusting you off.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nate Burke
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 1:56 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage
> >
> > How long does it usually take for the offending company to payout?  It's
> > a nationwide contractor.  Is it a year long process of them submitting
> > to their insurance and just waiting through bureaucracy?
> >
> > On 7/23/2021 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > > I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone
> > > else.  That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded
> payroll
> > > expense.  You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to
> litigate
> > > it best to just try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was
> > > painted prior to damage it will help a bunch.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to
> > >> underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked
> > >> underground lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.
> > >>
> > >> Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully
> itemized
> > >> time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so
> I'm
> > >> not sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with
> this
> > >> on a daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.
> Just
> > >> not sure what documentation/invoices we need to send them.
> > >>
> > >> Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the
> > >> repair?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> AF mailing list
> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Chris Fabien]

The damages we have been paid on, we have not submitted much of a
detailed bill. Simple description of the damaged facilities, relevant
facts, and Cost to Repair: $.xx.
Have been paid by local power company, auto insurance, and our
customers. Have an $8000 damage invoice out to local road commission
currently for mowing 3 pedestals and may have to fight on that one.
Good luck!

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 6:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Depends on the company.  I generally get a check in about a month or two
> from smaller guys.  Larger companies you may have to gin up a small clams
> complaint and fire it across their bow to get their attention.  If they
> ignore it just file the thing.  They probably will not show to the hearing
> if they are dusting you off.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 1:56 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage
>
> How long does it usually take for the offending company to payout?  It's
> a nationwide contractor.  Is it a year long process of them submitting
> to their insurance and just waiting through bureaucracy?
>
> On 7/23/2021 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone
> > else.  That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded payroll
> > expense.  You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to litigate
> > it best to just try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was
> > painted prior to damage it will help a bunch.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >>
> >> Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to
> >> underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked
> >> underground lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.
> >>
> >> Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized
> >> time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm
> >> not sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this
> >> on a daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just
> >> not sure what documentation/invoices we need to send them.
> >>
> >> Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the
> >> repair?
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Depends on the company.  I generally get a check in about a month or two 
from smaller guys.  Larger companies you may have to gin up a small clams 
complaint and fire it across their bow to get their attention.  If they 
ignore it just file the thing.  They probably will not show to the hearing 
if they are dusting you off.


-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 1:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

How long does it usually take for the offending company to payout?  It's
a nationwide contractor.  Is it a year long process of them submitting
to their insurance and just waiting through bureaucracy?

On 7/23/2021 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone 
else.  That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded payroll 
expense.  You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to litigate 
it best to just try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was 
painted prior to damage it will help a bunch.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to 
underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked 
underground lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.


Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized 
time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm 
not sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this 
on a daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just 
not sure what documentation/invoices we need to send them.


Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the 
repair?


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Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Nate Burke]

How long does it usually take for the offending company to payout?  It's 
a nationwide contractor.  Is it a year long process of them submitting 
to their insurance and just waiting through bureaucracy?


On 7/23/2021 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone else.  
That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded payroll expense.  
You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to litigate it best to just 
try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was painted prior to damage it 
will help a bunch.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to 
underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked underground 
lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.

Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized 
time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm not 
sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this on a daily 
basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just not sure what 
documentation/invoices we need to send them.

Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the repair?

--
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone else.  
That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded payroll expense.  
You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to litigate it best to just 
try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was painted prior to damage it 
will help a bunch.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to 
> underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked underground 
> lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.
> 
> Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized 
> time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm not 
> sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this on a 
> daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just not sure 
> what documentation/invoices we need to send them.
> 
> Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the repair?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Nate Burke]

Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to 
underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked 
underground lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.


Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized 
time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm 
not sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this 
on a daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just 
not sure what documentation/invoices we need to send them.


Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the 
repair?


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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Daniel White]

ConVergence bought his company CWLabs which you could say eventually
became CTIconnect.  Charles Wu and Brian Young had a lot to do with
moving ConVergence out of the MSP space into the WISP space.

The Apex9 radio series was a REMEC ODU

No doubt Charles was the primary influencer for a long time.  He
certainly did a great job selling the world on CTI and certainly helped
develop many of the services and products that the ConVergence family of
companies came up with or offer today.  Certainly not trying to take any
credit away from him for those things.

Marc Kruer is the CEO - and for the most part tries to stay out of the
limelight. 

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

> Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> August 24, 2020 at 07:57
> It was also around the time he had that Remec style radio.  What do as
> the connection between Charles and CTI?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini <mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>
> August 24, 2020 at 07:50
>
> It seems like Charles was the “influencer” for CTI… getting WISPs
> onboard their product/services
>
>  
>
> *GinoVillarini
> *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>
> aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>  inc500
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> fb-logo
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> insta-logo
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>  in-logo
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> tw-logo
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>  
>   yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>  
>
> www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18
> Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown
> 
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Monday, August 24, 2020 at 9:44 AM
> *To: *Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> *Cc: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing again
>
>  
>
> In my memory Charles started it.  We were one of the first customers.
>  We had to bail because it couldn’t accept all cards if I remember
> correctly.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Josh Luthman]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-wu/

Chief Innovation Officer
Company NameConvergence Technologies
Dates EmployedAug 2001 – May 2015
Employment Duration13 yrs 10 mos
LocationBurr Ridge, IL
I did awesome things (like keeping the toilets clean...)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:58 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> It was also around the time he had that Remec style radio.  What do as the
> connection between Charles and CTI?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 24, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
> 
>
> It seems like Charles was the “influencer” for CTI… getting WISPs onboard
> their product/services
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> [image: aeronet-logo] <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> [image: inc500]
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> [image: fb-logo]
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>  [image: insta-logo]
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>  [image: in-logo]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>  [image:
> tw-logo]
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>   [image: yt-logo]
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown <
> ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Monday, August 24, 2020 at 9:44 AM
> *To: *Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> *Cc: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing again
>
>
>
> In my memory Charles started it.  We were one of the first customers.  We
> had to bail because it couldn’t accept all cards if I remember correctly.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2020, at 5:36 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> ConVergence owns IPPay.  They are now a subsidiary company like CTIconnect
> since we “de-converged” (I wish I could remember who came up with that, so
> I could give them the credit!).
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
> I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned
> IPpay.  I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)
>
> Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - byo...@ippay.com
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. photograph]
>
>
> *Daniel White *Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
>
> *phone:* +1 (702) 470-2770
> *direct:* +1 (702) 470-2766
>
> ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> August 14, 2020 at 09:28
>
> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>
>
>
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required
> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>
>
>
> What are the costs of the others?
>
> Sonar
>
> Emerald
>
> UCRM
>
>
>
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
>
> Others?
>
>
>
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
>
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
> problematic.
>
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a
> surcharge for credit cards.
>
>
>
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Chuck McCown]

It was also around the time he had that Remec style radio.  What do as the 
connection between Charles and CTI?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 
> It seems like Charles was the “influencer” for CTI… getting WISPs onboard 
> their product/services
>  
> Gino Villarini 
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>   
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> 
> From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
> Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2020 at 9:44 AM
> To: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again
>  
> In my memory Charles started it.  We were one of the first customers.  We had 
> to bail because it couldn’t accept all cards if I remember correctly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Aug 24, 2020, at 5:36 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:
> 
> ConVergence owns IPPay.  They are now a subsidiary company like CTIconnect 
> since we “de-converged” (I wish I could remember who came up with that, so I 
> could give them the credit!).
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
> 
> On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
> 
> I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned 
> IPpay.  I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)
> 
> Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - byo...@ippay.com
>  
> 
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> ch...@wbmfg.com
> August 14, 2020 at 09:28
> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>  
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>  
> What are the costs of the others?
> Sonar
> Emerald
> UCRM
>  
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name. 
> Others?
>  
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic. 
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
> surcharge for credit cards.
>  
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Gino A. Villarini]

It seems like Charles was the “influencer” for CTI… getting WISPs onboard their 
product/services


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[https://gallery.mailchimp.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/2a19bac2-257e-4f73-9295-a89a9c48a166.png]<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
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<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>  
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<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Monday, August 24, 2020 at 9:44 AM
To: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

In my memory Charles started it.  We were one of the first customers.  We had 
to bail because it couldn’t accept all cards if I remember correctly.
Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 24, 2020, at 5:36 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:
ConVergence owns IPPay.  They are now a subsidiary company like CTIconnect 
since we “de-converged” (I wish I could remember who came up with that, so I 
could give them the credit!).
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned IPpay. 
 I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)

Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - 
byo...@ippay.com<mailto:byo...@ippay.com>

[cid:~WRD3232.jpg]

Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766



ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
August 14, 2020 at 09:28
So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

What are the costs of the others?
Sonar
Emerald
UCRM

The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
Others?

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic.
I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...



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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Chuck McCown]

In my memory Charles started it.  We were one of the first customers.  We had 
to bail because it couldn’t accept all cards if I remember correctly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2020, at 5:36 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:
> 
> ConVergence owns IPPay.  They are now a subsidiary company like CTIconnect 
> since we “de-converged” (I wish I could remember who came up with that, so I 
> could give them the credit!).
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
>>> On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned 
>> IPpay.  I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)
>> 
>> Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - byo...@ippay.com
>> 
>>  
>> Daniel White
>> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
>> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
>> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>>> ch...@wbmfg.com August 14, 2020 at 09:28
>>> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>>>  
>>> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
>>> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>>>  
>>> What are the costs of the others?
>>> Sonar
>>> Emerald
>>> UCRM
>>>  
>>> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name. 
>>> Others?
>>>  
>>> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
>>> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be 
>>> problematic. 
>>> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
>>> surcharge for credit cards.
>>>  
>>> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

ConVergence owns IPPay.  They are now a subsidiary company like CTIconnect 
since we “de-converged” (I wish I could remember who came up with that, so I 
could give them the credit!).

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
> 
> 
> I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned 
> IPpay.  I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)
> 
> Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - byo...@ippay.com
> 
>   
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>> ch...@wbmfg.com August 14, 2020 at 09:28
>> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>>  
>> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
>> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>>  
>> What are the costs of the others?
>> Sonar
>> Emerald
>> UCRM
>>  
>> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name. 
>> Others?
>>  
>> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
>> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic. 
>> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
>> surcharge for credit cards.
>>  
>> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Daniel White]

I know I'm a week behind here - but I'd note that Charles Wu never owned
IPpay.  I'm under NDA for probably anything else I'd say :-)

Brian Young can help you out with IPpay - byo...@ippay.com

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

> ch...@wbmfg.com 
> August 14, 2020 at 09:28
> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>  
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250. 
> Required ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>  
> What are the costs of the others?
> Sonar
> Emerald
> UCRM
>  
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name. 
> Others?
>  
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
> problematic. 
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge
> a surcharge for credit cards.
>  
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Dave]

We are using Freeside and happy with it. Luckily before jeremy left we 
were able to get some custom modules done.


We have a support engineer that works well with freeside. We were able 
to incorporate it into preseem and our inventory without much fuss.


I hope that Ivan will get his stuff together and do more with it.


On 8/14/2020 11:05 AM, Larry Smith wrote:

On Fri August 14 2020 10:44, Cameron Crum wrote:

Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure
what happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff.
But, Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous
instructions, or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support
guy Jeremy went to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't
know if Ivan even still maintains stuff or not.

Last word I got was that Ivan had some personal issues but was getting
things settled/organized and would be back to taking care of things "soon".



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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Ken Hohhof]

Seems like all the advertised prices for Internet and phone service by the big 
companies specify “with autopay and ecobill”.  Not sure if “autopay”means 
credit/debit/ACH, or only ACH, I’d have to guess they are willing to eat the 
credit card fee in order to be able to charge you automatically.  They may also 
get better rates from the card processors than we do, I don’t know.  Most also 
charge a fee to pay by phone, this is OK because it’s a convenience fee not 
specifically a credit card fee.  Ecobill of course means an extra charge if you 
want a paper bill.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 11:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

 

I remember when one fiber provider in Utah started charging a $7.00 handling 
fee when paying by check. Seemed excessive, but They probably got more to 
switch to use automatic payment methods. 

Sent from my iPhone





On Aug 16, 2020, at 10:25, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> 
> wrote:



OK, I found this with a Google search, so it’s not necessarily correct, but it 
seems to have lots of relevant information.

 

Seems like it depends on your state law (10 or 11 states prohibit it), and you 
can’t charge for using a debit card, also some other details that must be 
observed.

 

https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 11:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

 

 

apparently not illegal anymore, lots of vendors here are now passing along 
their credit card processing fee right to you on the charge slip.

 

- Original Message - 

From: Cameron Crum <mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>  

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

 

Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. UCRM 
is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even tomorrow. 
Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what happened to 
him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, Freeside is 
"free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, or you can pay 
a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went to work for Matt 
Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even still maintains 
stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to track. YOu will get 
approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be 
there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send you an email or 
something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay 
in their billing system so it requires effort to make sure you are getting your 
money. It is illegal to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a 
discount for paying by check or cash.  

 

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

 

Cameron

 

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

 

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

 

What are the costs of the others?

Sonar

Emerald

UCRM

 

The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.  

Others?

 

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?  

If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic.  

I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

 

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Cassidy B. Larson]

I remember when one fiber provider in Utah started charging a $7.00 handling 
fee when paying by check. Seemed excessive, but They probably got more to 
switch to use automatic payment methods. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2020, at 10:25, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> OK, I found this with a Google search, so it’s not necessarily correct, but 
> it seems to have lots of relevant information.
>  
> Seems like it depends on your state law (10 or 11 states prohibit it), and 
> you can’t charge for using a debit card, also some other details that must be 
> observed.
>  
> https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 11:01 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again
>  
>  
> apparently not illegal anymore, lots of vendors here are now passing along 
> their credit card processing fee right to you on the charge slip.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Crum
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again
>  
> Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
> $1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. 
> UCRM is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even 
> tomorrow. Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what 
> happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, 
> Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, 
> or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went 
> to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even 
> still maintains stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to 
> track. YOu will get approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours 
> the money will not be there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send 
> you an email or something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate 
> that failure to pay in their billing system so it requires effort to make 
> sure you are getting your money. It is illegal to charge to take credit 
> cards, but you can give a discount for paying by check or cash. 
>  
> Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?
>  
> Cameron
>  
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:
> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>  
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>  
> What are the costs of the others?
> Sonar
> Emerald
> UCRM
>  
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name. 
> Others?
>  
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic. 
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
> surcharge for credit cards.
>  
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, I found this with a Google search, so it’s not necessarily correct, but it 
seems to have lots of relevant information.

 

Seems like it depends on your state law (10 or 11 states prohibit it), and you 
can’t charge for using a debit card, also some other details that must be 
observed.

 

https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 11:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

 

 

apparently not illegal anymore, lots of vendors here are now passing along 
their credit card processing fee right to you on the charge slip.

 

- Original Message - 

From: Cameron Crum <mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>  

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

 

Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. UCRM 
is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even tomorrow. 
Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what happened to 
him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, Freeside is 
"free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, or you can pay 
a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went to work for Matt 
Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even still maintains 
stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to track. YOu will get 
approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be 
there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send you an email or 
something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay 
in their billing system so it requires effort to make sure you are getting your 
money. It is illegal to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a 
discount for paying by check or cash.  

 

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

 

Cameron

 

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

 

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

 

What are the costs of the others?

Sonar

Emerald

UCRM

 

The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.  

Others?

 

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?  

If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic.  

I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

 

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

apparently not illegal anymore, lots of vendors here are now passing along 
their credit card processing fee right to you on the charge slip.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Cameron Crum 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again


  Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. UCRM 
is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even tomorrow. 
Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what happened to 
him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, Freeside is 
"free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, or you can pay 
a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went to work for Matt 
Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even still maintains 
stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to track. YOu will get 
approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be 
there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send you an email or 
something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay 
in their billing system so it requires effort to make sure you are getting your 
money. It is illegal to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a 
discount for paying by check or cash. 


  Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?


  Cameron


  On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:

So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

What are the costs of the others?
Sonar
Emerald
UCRM

The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.  
Others?

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?  
If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be 
problematic.  
I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--


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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Mike Hammett]

I think Charles still has his ownership interest, though. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Cameron Crum"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:44:04 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again 


Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. UCRM 
is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even tomorrow. 
Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what happened to 
him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, Freeside is 
"free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, or you can pay 
a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went to work for Matt 
Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even still maintains 
stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to track. YOu will get 
approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be 
there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send you an email or 
something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay 
in their billing system so it requires effort to make sure you are getting your 
money. It is illegal to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a 
discount for paying by check or cash. 


Does that muddy the waters sufficiently? 


Cameron 


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems. 

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250. Required 
ippay. Does Charles Wu still own ippay? 

What are the costs of the others? 
Sonar 
Emerald 
UCRM 

The one Ivan sells. Not sure of the name. 
Others? 

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic. 
I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards. 

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank... -- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Mike Hammett]

https://sonar.software/pricing 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 10:28:12 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] billing again 




So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems. 

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250. Required 
ippay. Does Charles Wu still own ippay? 

What are the costs of the others? 
Sonar 
Emerald 
UCRM 

The one Ivan sells. Not sure of the name. 
Others? 

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view? 
If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic. 
I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards. 

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank... 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Lewis Bergman]

At the end of year we are moving to OneBill. I know some people with it and
they are very happy. The costs is reasonable nut is on a rev basis.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:

> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required
> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>
> What are the costs of the others?
> Sonar
> Emerald
> UCRM
>
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
> Others?
>
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
> problematic.
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a
> surcharge for credit cards.
>
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[chuck]

Yes, thanks.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 9:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing again

Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is 
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald. UCRM 
is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even tomorrow. 
Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure what happened to 
him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff. But, Freeside is 
"free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous instructions, or you can pay 
a "support" contract, but his main dev/support guy Jeremy went to work for Matt 
Larson a couple years ago. I really don't know if Ivan even still maintains 
stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but more difficult to track. YOu will get 
approvals and then when it goes to settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be 
there and it will decline. I think IPPay will now send you an email or 
something, but I don't believe anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay 
in their billing system so it requires effort to make sure you are getting your 
money. It is illegal to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a 
discount for paying by check or cash.  

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

Cameron

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:

  So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

  I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

  What are the costs of the others?
  Sonar
  Emerald
  UCRM

  The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.  
  Others?

  Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?  
  If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic.  
  I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

  Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Larry Smith]

On Fri August 14 2020 10:44, Cameron Crum wrote:
> Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure
> what happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff.
> But, Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous
> instructions, or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support
> guy Jeremy went to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't
> know if Ivan even still maintains stuff or not.

Last word I got was that Ivan had some personal issues but was getting
things settled/organized and would be back to taking care of things "soon".

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/14/20 8:50 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Sorry, it is illegal in some states to charge a surcharge for taking 
credit cards. 10 states outlaw it altogether and there are requirements 
in other states that you have to meet in order to do it. The 10 states 
are Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New 
York, Oklahoma, and Texas.



Beyond that the merchant or processor agreement may say you can't charge 
a fee to accept cards, but that's between you and the processor (not an 
actual crime but they could turn terminate your merchant account).


The universally safe way is cash discount.

~Seth

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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Cameron Crum]

This is a pretty good article about surcharges and convenience fees.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:50 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Sorry, it is illegal in some states to charge a surcharge for taking
> credit cards. 10 states outlaw it altogether and there are requirements in
> other states that you have to meet in order to do it. The 10 states are
> Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York,
> Oklahoma, and Texas.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:44 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is
>> $1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald.
>> UCRM is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even
>> tomorrow. Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure
>> what happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff.
>> But, Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous
>> instructions, or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support
>> guy Jeremy went to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't
>> know if Ivan even still maintains stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but
>> more difficult to track. YOu will get approvals and then when it goes to
>> settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be there and it will decline. I
>> think IPPay will now send you an email or something, but I don't believe
>> anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay in their billing system so
>> it requires effort to make sure you are getting your money. It is illegal
>> to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a discount for paying by
>> check or cash.
>>
>> Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>>>
>>> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.
>>> Required ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>>>
>>> What are the costs of the others?
>>> Sonar
>>> Emerald
>>> UCRM
>>>
>>> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
>>> Others?
>>>
>>> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
>>> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
>>> problematic.
>>> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a
>>> surcharge for credit cards.
>>>
>>> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your
>>> bank...
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Cameron Crum]

Sorry, it is illegal in some states to charge a surcharge for taking credit
cards. 10 states outlaw it altogether and there are requirements in other
states that you have to meet in order to do it. The 10 states are Colorado,
Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and
Texas.


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:44 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is
> $1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald.
> UCRM is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even
> tomorrow. Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure
> what happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff.
> But, Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous
> instructions, or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support
> guy Jeremy went to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't
> know if Ivan even still maintains stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but
> more difficult to track. YOu will get approvals and then when it goes to
> settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be there and it will decline. I
> think IPPay will now send you an email or something, but I don't believe
> anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay in their billing system so
> it requires effort to make sure you are getting your money. It is illegal
> to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a discount for paying by
> check or cash.
>
> Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?
>
> Cameron
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:
>
>> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>>
>> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.
>> Required ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>>
>> What are the costs of the others?
>> Sonar
>> Emerald
>> UCRM
>>
>> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
>> Others?
>>
>> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
>> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
>> problematic.
>> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a
>> surcharge for credit cards.
>>
>> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing again

[Cameron Crum]

Charles has not been involved with IPPay for some time. Sonar is
$1.25/sub/month up to 5000 then it drops in tiers. Not sure about Emerald.
UCRM is free but who knows if it will be around in a few years or even
tomorrow. Ivan (Freeside) has not been around for a few years. Not sure
what happened to him, but he quit coming to the Wisp trade shows and stuff.
But, Freeside is "free" if you can get it set up with the ambiguous
instructions, or you can pay a "support" contract, but his main dev/support
guy Jeremy went to work for Matt Larson a couple years ago. I really don't
know if Ivan even still maintains stuff or not. ACH is a little cheaper but
more difficult to track. YOu will get approvals and then when it goes to
settle in 24-48 hours the money will not be there and it will decline. I
think IPPay will now send you an email or something, but I don't believe
anyone has a way to automate that failure to pay in their billing system so
it requires effort to make sure you are getting your money. It is illegal
to charge to take credit cards, but you can give a discount for paying by
check or cash.

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

Cameron

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:28 AM  wrote:

> So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.
>
> I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required
> ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?
>
> What are the costs of the others?
> Sonar
> Emerald
> UCRM
>
> The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.
> Others?
>
> Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?
> If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be
> problematic.
> I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a
> surcharge for credit cards.
>
> Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] billing again

[chuck]

So what is the relative costs of the different billing systems.

I see platypus is free up to 100 subs then $104/month up to 250.  Required 
ippay.  Does Charles Wu still own ippay?

What are the costs of the others?
Sonar
Emerald
UCRM

The one Ivan sells.  Not sure of the name.  
Others?

Is ACH cheaper than credit cards from a fee/royalty point of view?  
If so can you force a 100% ACH on the customers or will that be problematic.  
I could always leave it up to them to pay any way they want but charge a 
surcharge for credit cards.

Send me a check, drop by with cash, set up auto bill pay with your bank...-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[John Osmon]

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:00:53AM -0500, Ken Hohhof wrote:
[...]
> There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow
> and insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS
> to 1.1.1.1 or something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim
> that it’s faster to use cloud DNS.  You could maybe say they have a
> bigger customer base and therefore more cached entries, but that
> doesn’t seem to be their claim.  It’s like they think 8.8.8.8 or
> 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s servers, which
> baffles me.  And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now set the
> TTL so low that all queries are recursive.

There are two issues:
  -- how far away is your recursor?
  -- how much PII are they scooping up?

Vixie's given this talk a couple of times, and I think this one at
SCaLE is likely the best one on YouTube:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=artLJOwToVY



-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Seth Mattinen]

On 4/24/20 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
That sounds like the greylisting fans who claim email senders are 
required to retry again within 15 minutes from the same IP address.


Sure.  And in the real world …




Greylsiting is highly effective against a specific set of spew sources: 
compromised machines connecting directly to SMTP. But now most ISPs 
block port 25 by default (since port 587 is now widely supported) so you 
don't see a high volume of fire and forget compromised users anymore.


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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

If they tell me specifically that they require it, who am I to argue? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:40:06 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



That sounds like the greylisting fans who claim email senders are required to 
retry again within 15 minutes from the same IP address. 
Sure. And in the real world … 

Remember the story about the ship captain ordering the lighthouse to change 
course? 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"I'm not sure why that is still being preached." 



Multiple CDNs specifically require it and state as much in their peering or 
cache server documentation. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:22:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of 
additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much 
larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I also 
trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS infrastructure than 
just myself. 



I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it 
on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and 
Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues years 
ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major providers 
and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive all local 
content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, 
etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that content to come from elsewhere 
and I'm not sure why that is still being preached. 



On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs and 
IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8. I’ve also had 
PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 in order 
to pass the audit. And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their own DNS 
server, bypassing the router or the OS. 

All of which they’re free to do. 

There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 or 
something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster to 
use cloud DNS. You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim. It’s 
like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
servers, which baffles me. And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too. 



As Mike said - it's another one of his things. I'm surprised you haven't seen 
that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

I have seen this on Google, Netflix, and I believe Akamai. 




Our Akamai node is getting upgraded to a 40G node. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Cassidy B. Larson"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:35:08 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

Which CDNs require it? 


I know Google, Apple and Netflix don’t matter they use the source IP of the 
requestor not the DNS. 
Akamai is still old-school hasn’t figured out this new-generation of DNS like 
the new kids on the block have. 
However, with Akamai pulling all their caches that are serving <10G from ISPs, 
I dont know if it makes that much difference any more since they’re not going 
to be hitting my non-existent local Akamai cache. 









On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


"I'm not sure why that is still being preached." 


Multiple CDNs specifically require it and state as much in their peering or 
cache server documentation. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:22:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of 
additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much 
larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I also 
trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS infrastructure than 
just myself. 


I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it 
on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and 
Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues years 
ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major providers 
and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive all local 
content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, 
etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that content to come from elsewhere 
and I'm not sure why that is still being preached. 


On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs and 
IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8. I’ve also had 
PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 in order 
to pass the audit. And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their own DNS 
server, bypassing the router or the OS. 

All of which they’re free to do. 

There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 or 
something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster to 
use cloud DNS. You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim. It’s 
like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
servers, which baffles me. And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too. 



As Mike said - it's another one of his things. I'm surprised you haven't seen 
that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

That sounds like the greylisting fans who claim email senders are required to 
retry again within 15 minutes from the same IP address.

Sure.  And in the real world …

 

Remember the story about the ship captain ordering the lighthouse to change 
course?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

"I'm not sure why that is still being preached."

 

Multiple CDNs specifically require it and state as much in their peering or 
cache server documentation.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:22:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of 
additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much 
larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I also 
trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS infrastructure than 
just myself.

 

I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it 
on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and 
Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues years 
ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major providers 
and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive all local 
content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, 
etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that content to come from elsewhere 
and I'm not sure why that is still being preached.

 

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs and 
IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8.  I’ve also had 
PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 in order 
to pass the audit.  And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their own DNS 
server, bypassing the router or the OS.

 

All of which they’re free to do.

 

There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 or 
something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster to 
use cloud DNS.  You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim.  It’s 
like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
servers, which baffles me.  And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too.

 

As Mike said - it's another one of his things.  I'm surprised you haven't seen 
that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Which CDNs require it?

I know Google, Apple and Netflix don’t matter they use the source IP of the 
requestor not the DNS.
Akamai is still old-school hasn’t figured out this new-generation of DNS like 
the new kids on the block have.
However, with Akamai pulling all their caches that are serving <10G from ISPs, 
I dont know if it makes that much difference any more since they’re not going 
to be hitting my non-existent local Akamai cache.



> On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> "I'm not sure why that is still being preached."
> 
> Multiple CDNs specifically require it and state as much in their peering or 
> cache server documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Darin Steffl" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:22:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of 
> additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much 
> larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I 
> also trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS infrastructure 
> than just myself.
> 
> I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it 
> on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and 
> Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues years 
> ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major providers 
> and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive all local 
> content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, 
> etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that content to come from 
> elsewhere and I'm not sure why that is still being preached.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof  <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs 
> and IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8.  I’ve 
> also had PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 
> in order to pass the audit.  And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their 
> own DNS server, bypassing the router or the OS.
> 
> All of which they’re free to do.
> 
> There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
> insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 
> or something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster 
> to use cloud DNS.  You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
> therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim.  It’s 
> like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
> servers, which baffles me.  And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
> set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive.
> 
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too.
> 
> As Mike said - it's another one of his things.  I'm surprised you haven't 
> seen that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof  <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Th

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

"I'm not sure why that is still being preached." 


Multiple CDNs specifically require it and state as much in their peering or 
cache server documentation. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:22:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of 
additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much 
larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I also 
trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS infrastructure than 
just myself. 


I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it 
on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and 
Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues years 
ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major providers 
and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive all local 
content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, 
etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that content to come from elsewhere 
and I'm not sure why that is still being preached. 


On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs and 
IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8. I’ve also had 
PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 in order 
to pass the audit. And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their own DNS 
server, bypassing the router or the OS. 

All of which they’re free to do. 

There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 or 
something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster to 
use cloud DNS. You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim. It’s 
like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
servers, which baffles me. And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too. 



As Mike said - it's another one of his things. I'm surprised you haven't seen 
that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Use

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Darin Steffl]

To be fair, Cloudflare is only 3.0ms away from us and that's not a lot of
additional latency, particular considering that their cache is likely much
larger than ours. So their cache hit % should be much higher than ours. I
also trust Cloudflare to have more people working on their DNS
infrastructure than just myself.

I totally understand and agree the lowest latency way for DNS is to host it
on-site on your own gear but we've had customers on OpenDNS (10ms away) and
Cloudflare (3ms away) with no issues at all. Google has had some issues
years ago so we switched away awhile ago. We peer with many of the major
providers and even though we use DNS that is outsourced, we still receive
all local content from our IX like Netflix, Google, Akamai, Apple,
Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Not having on-site DNS has not caused that
content to come from elsewhere and I'm not sure why that is still being
preached.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer
> techs and IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8.
> I’ve also had PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to
> 8.8.8.8 in order to pass the audit.  And it’s getting so apps and browsers
> set their own DNS server, bypassing the router or the OS.
>
>
>
> All of which they’re free to do.
>
>
>
> There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and
> insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1
> or something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s
> faster to use cloud DNS.  You could maybe say they have a bigger customer
> base and therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their
> claim.  It’s like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer
> than the ISP’s servers, which baffles me.  And as far as cache size, it
> seems most sites now set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too.
>
>
>
> As Mike said - it's another one of his things.  I'm surprised you haven't
> seen that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

I do find it interesting that one of the “improvements” that computer techs and 
IT guys typically apply is to change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8.  I’ve also had 
PCI auditors tell the customer to change their DNS server to 8.8.8.8 in order 
to pass the audit.  And it’s getting so apps and browsers set their own DNS 
server, bypassing the router or the OS.

 

All of which they’re free to do.

 

There is a whole movement telling people that ISP resolvers are slow and 
insecure, that it will be faster and safer to use DNS over HTTPS to 1.1.1.1 or 
something similar. I’ve never quite understood the claim that it’s faster to 
use cloud DNS.  You could maybe say they have a bigger customer base and 
therefore more cached entries, but that doesn’t seem to be their claim.  It’s 
like they think 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 is closer to the customer than the ISP’s 
servers, which baffles me.  And as far as cache size, it seems most sites now 
set the TTL so low that all queries are recursive.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too.

 

As Mike said - it's another one of his things.  I'm surprised you haven't seen 
that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Mostly humor, but it's kinda true too.

As Mike said - it's another one of his things.  I'm surprised you haven't
seen that, though it may not be too often in AFMUG.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring sys

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

Hey, “get off my lawn” is my shtick.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 6:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

It's mainstream and it's generally shit.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:24:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”.

 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”.  
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based.

 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers.

 

 

It's sorta like my SFP thing...



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

If you aren't using on-net recursive DNS servers, you aren't taking full 
advantage of on-net cache boxes and peering. Multiple CDNs right in their "how 
to" guides say that the prefixes of the client and the DNS server that does the 
lookup need to be advertised to them via BGP for them to serve those clients at 
all. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Erich Kaiser"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:20:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



We run 6 different network monitor platforms, they all do somewhat specific 
things and are in house. I don't see how you can only run one especially it 
being Pulse which is very limited. As for DNS, there is no reason to run your 
own DNS for recursive IMO, I have one dns server setup for RDNS but we use Open 
DNS for primary and google for backup, been doing that for several years no 
issues. If anything we would look at moving away from using google all together 
and maybe use cloudflare or something as a secondary. VMs are the way to go if 
your software platform supports it. 















On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:00 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monito

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

It's mainstream and it's generally shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:24:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”. 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”. 
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based. 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers. 





It's sorta like my SFP thing... 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”.

 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”.  
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based.

 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers.

 

 

It's sorta like my SFP thing...



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "David Coudron" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we f

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Erich Kaiser]

We run 6 different network monitor platforms, they all do somewhat
specific things and are in house.  I don't see how you can only run one
especially it being Pulse which is very limited.  As for DNS, there is no
reason to run your own DNS for recursive IMO, I have one dns server setup
for RDNS but we use Open DNS for primary and google for backup, been doing
that for several years no issues.  If anything we would look at moving away
from using google all together and maybe use cloudflare or something as a
secondary.   VMs are the way to go if your software platform supports it.



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers. 




It's sorta like my SFP thing... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

Some things are more acceptable to farm out than others. 




Monitoring must be on-net. 
Recursive DNS must be on-net. 
Authentication must be on-net. 






I would rather almost everything be on-net, but I'm okay with Sonar and web 
hosting off-net. 




Authoritative DNS should be off-net with all zones set up with more than one of 
the global anycast networks as secondary to your hidden master (moving all of 
my companies to that model now). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:48:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 



I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.

 

1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.   
2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

 

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

 

From: AF mailto:a

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that
>we have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to
>core routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the
>customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
>3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where
>the SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In
>particular, or Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so
>we calculate that ourselves in LibreNMS.
>
>
>
> I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be
> closer to this with Pulse than w

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)


I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "David Coudron" 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.


  1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.
  2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we have 
the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core routers 
to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the customer.   We 
thought Sonar was going to be that.
  3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the SNMP 
data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
S

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Back in the early early 2000s it was CentOS.  Mid to late 2000's it was
ImageStream.  After that came Powercode's own product using Axiomtek
hardware.  It still works, but since everyone is using Mikrotik for all
this networking stuff they're migrating to virtual BMU (a vm running the
polling/pinging stuff).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:45 PM  wrote:

> What were BMUs, meaning who made them?
>
> *From:* SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
> I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu
> to make them useful, not sure why
>
> they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
>
> you can host it wherever, locally is better though
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:
>
> Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version
> cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be
> telling the boss we need to look elsewhere
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 




I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 



I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks. It had to do 
with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we could 
get better monitoring data into Sonar. In working with the person at Sonar (I 
don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it should be 
working, but clearly wasn’t. Their take was that this wouldn’t be corrected in 
v1. We needed to wait for the v2 API. 

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS). We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data. 
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience. But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot. What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar. That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance. I think we tax

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Powercodes proprietary appliance.  It did the rate plan management (bandwidth 
throttling)  and polling of devices on the network.   From what we could tell, 
they were pretty solid devices.  Never really had issues with them.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

What were BMUs, meaning who made them?

From: SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why
they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Simon Westlake]

Looking forward to getting you guys on the v2 GraphQL API for exactly that
reason ;)

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

What were BMUs, meaning who made them?

From: SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why

they want you to use seasawsai or whatever

you can host it wherever, locally is better though

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:

  Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

   

  From: Steve Jones 

  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

   

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

Opinions?

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

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  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Mikrotik doesn't have an SNMP client and you can't get to the shell.
That's not really possible.  You could maybe tunnel into it and run the
snmpget locally.

Not sure how easy it is to parse, but it's definitely inefficient to do a
ping from the Mikrotik executed via the API.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:36 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that
>we have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to
>core routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the
>customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
>3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where
>the SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In
>particular, or Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so
>we calculate that ourselves in LibreNMS.
>
>
>
> I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be
> closer to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> "We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."
>
>
>
> I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the
> up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to
> something purpose-built to monitor.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It
> had to do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so
> that we could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the
> person at Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that
> it appear it should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that
> this wouldn’t be corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.
>
>
>
> We’d like to eliminate our external mo

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

We have three as well.   We’ll make you a really good deal…….. 

Steve, I will trade you straight up:   1 pound of chicken thighs for 1 BMU.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why
they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.


  1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.
  2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we have 
the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core routers 
to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the customer.   We 
thought Sonar was going to be that.
  3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the SNMP 
data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."

I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "David Coudron" 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

Davi

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Bruce Robertson]

Normally people, but with an option on cargo.  We recently flew our 
Pilatus down to SFO with a load of hand sanitizer.  We're a Part 135 
on-demand charter.


I've furloughed myself for the time being though.  The other day I had 
my first flight in over a month - picking up at SLC, dropping off in 
Surprise Valley/Cedarville CA.  That was fine by itself, but while he at 
least sat in the back of the Cirrus, the dude declined the mask I 
offered him, and the purpose of his trip was to come all the way from 
Boston, then meet up with his buddies in the Black Rock Desert in NV to 
go dirt bike riding.  So much for social distancing.  Since I'm 60 and 
have (controlled) high blood pressure, I opted for not putting myself at 
that kind of risk going forward.


Regardless, no way I would fly him back.  Who knows where his buddies 
have been?  Some people just don't get it.


That said, I'm happy to fly cargo trips.

On 4/23/20 11:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
You hauling people, cargo, students or cameras?  Perhaps FWS coyote 
hunters?

*From:* Bruce Robertson
*Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:39 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
Nice. I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying 
gig for the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm 
enjoying retirement far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, 
keeping me out of trouble.)  Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light 
moving and collect the revenue.    At least that is what I am 
attempting to pull off...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it 
integrates with Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.


Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage 
of past decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version 
cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to 
be telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best
billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode
still alive?

Opinions?

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

AFAIK there's no Wu ownership or anything but I don't know their corporate
structure or anything like that.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:29 PM  wrote:

> One of the last WISPA events I went to, Bertram had a big black tent in
> the back of the show floor.  Charles was there and I am sure he said he had
> partnered up with Jim.  This was years after Jim bought the company.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of
> time where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed
>> hands many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long
>> haul
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of
>>> Bertram.  Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be
>>> misremembering that last part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>>
>>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>>
>>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from
>>> plat but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS
>>> so, after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the
>>> powercode way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>>> platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>>> alive?
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[SmarterBroadband]

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why

they want you to use seasawsai or whatever

you can host it wherever, locally is better though

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

One of the last WISPA events I went to, Bertram had a big black tent in the 
back of the show floor.  Charles was there and I am sure he said he had 
partnered up with Jim.  This was years after Jim bought the company.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of time 
where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands 
many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of Bertram. 
 Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be 
misremembering that last part.



From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?



From: ch...@wbmfg.com 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  

Simon is a standup guy.  



From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 



we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat 
but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 
18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we 
moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.  



Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)



-Sean









On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at 
some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  



  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

  Opinions?

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

You hauling people, cargo, students or cameras?  Perhaps FWS coyote hunters?

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Nice.  I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying gig for 
the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm enjoying retirement 
far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, keeping me out of trouble.)  
Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light moving and 
collect the revenue.At least that is what I am attempting to pull off...

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

  I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates with 
Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.

   

  Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of past 
decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

   

  From: Steve Jones 

  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

   

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

Opinions?

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  !DSPAM:5ea0e5ce5951099816085! 
   





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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 


I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks. It had to do 
with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we could 
get better monitoring data into Sonar. In working with the person at Sonar (I 
don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it should be 
working, but clearly wasn’t. Their take was that this wouldn’t be corrected in 
v1. We needed to wait for the v2 API. 

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS). We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data. 
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience. But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot. What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar. That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance. I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :) 







On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum < cc...@murcevilo.com > wrote: 



David, 



I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing. 



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




We see the same thing as Mike is referring to. We would really like to get to 
v2.0. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying it 
is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out many 
of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate. We have been in 
this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change anytime 
soon. Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature set works 
for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set. 

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API. We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0. We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool. 

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset. I imagine you could 
use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar to 
Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a lot 
of value. It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 





From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet. 

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already? 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only. 



Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada. 



-sean 





On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I used Pl

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Yes, I could see where that would work.   However, we just decided to use a 
SNMP system that would allow us to do that without having to create our own 
database, etc. With the other SNMP system we get the built in thresholds 
and alerting and all that kind of functionality without having to build that 
functionality from scratch.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

David,

Yeah I doubt you could store it back in sonar, but you could create an external 
DB where the math and storage was done with the results from the data pull in 
Sonar.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:52 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)

On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum 
mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get to 
v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying 
it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out 
many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   We have 
been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change 
anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature 
set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline 
isn’t set.

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0.   We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar 
to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a 
lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Well, it’s not just the pagination.. For example if we wanted to grab all users 
on x rate, we’d have to get all active accounts, depaginate the data, then call 
for all services, then loop for details on the services. And we end up doing 
that for an average of 3 services on an account over 10k+ accounts, then fork 
it all... causes our sonar instance to hiccup a little. hah

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
> 
> Cassidy,
> 
> I hear you on that. The paginated results can make for a lot of API calls. I 
> wouldn't think it would take a ton of resources though.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  <mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote:
> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but 
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being 
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as 
> we’re API intensive :)
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum > <mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something 
>> I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's 
>> API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what 
>> you are needing.
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron > <mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get 
>> to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars 
>> saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you 
>> find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.  
>>  We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything 
>> will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the 
>> current feature set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 
>> because that timeline isn’t set.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like 
>> to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are 
>> also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in 
>> v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t 
>> nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with 
>> another tool.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
>> Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
>> could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the 
>> Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem 
>> has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting 
>> tool.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Coudron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem 
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> From: "Sterling Jacobson" > <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>> 
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Jason Wilson]

Does that mean we will get a 2.0 release party 2.0 in Vegas?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:06 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 

Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

David,

Yeah I doubt you could store it back in sonar, but you could create an
external DB where the math and storage was done with the results from the
data pull in Sonar.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:52 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It
> had to do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so
> that we could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the
> person at Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that
> it appear it should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that
> this wouldn’t be corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.
>
>
>
> We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d
> really like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP
> based data.   Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and
> overall customer experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in
> one spot.  What we’d really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP
> and landing in Sonar and do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.
> That would be ideal, but it doesn’t look like that is possible.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
>
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>
>
>
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
> it with another tool.
>
>
>
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
> troubleshooting tool.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

Cassidy,

I hear you on that. The paginated results can make for a lot of API calls.
I wouldn't think it would take a ton of resources though.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)


On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum 
mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get to 
v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying 
it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out 
many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   We have 
been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change 
anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature 
set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline 
isn’t set.

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0.   We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar 
to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a 
lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Sterling Jacobson" mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sean Heskett
Sent: Wed

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Carl Peterson]

I'm kind of interested in what other people do for the BNG side of things.
Does everyone run PPPoE?  Does Powercode have hardware to terminate IPoE?
Auth and CRM are the easier parts to find, but BNG/BRAS, at least for IPoE
seems to be relegated to big players.

If I were starting a FISP from scratch, I think I would look closely at
Calix AXOS subscriber management and a similar setup with CORD.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:16 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fr

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Bruce Robertson]

Nice.  I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying gig 
for the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm enjoying 
retirement far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, keeping me 
out of trouble.)  Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light moving 
and collect the revenue.    At least that is what I am attempting to 
pull off...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates 
with Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.


Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of 
past decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version 
cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be 
telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best
billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode
still alive?

Opinions?

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cassidy B. Larson]

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
> haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's 
> API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what 
> you are needing.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron  <mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get 
> to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars 
> saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you 
> find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   
> We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will 
> change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the 
> current feature set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 
> because that timeline isn’t set.
> 
> 
> 
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like 
> to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are 
> also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in 
> v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly 
> as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
> Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
> could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the 
> Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem 
> has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Coudron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem 
> likely to be finished by fall.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Sean Heskett
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
> 
> 
> 
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
> enchilada.
> 
> 
> 
> -sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
> 
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
> 
> Simon is a standup guy.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Sean Heskett
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
> 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
> was way too c

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something
I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's
API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what
you are needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>
>
>
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
> it with another tool.
>
>
>
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
> troubleshooting tool.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the bes

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of
time where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands
> many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of
>> Bertram.  Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be
>> misremembering that last part.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>>
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>> platform.
>>
>>
>>
>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>> alive?
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Simon Westlake]

There's very little left to finish in v2 and we've got 50+ people on it
now, with more coming on board every day. The big blockers right now are
Avalara and VoIP billing, pretty much everything else is relatively minor.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:06 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Simon Westlake | CEO
PGP Key: https://flowcrypt.com/pub/simon@sonar.software
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Baird]

Preseem integrates perfectly with VISP as well.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:19 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>
>
>
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
> it with another tool.
>
>
>
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
> troubleshooting tool.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get to 
v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying 
it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out 
many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   We have 
been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change 
anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature 
set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline 
isn’t set.

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0.   We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar 
to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a 
lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Sterling Jacobson" mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.

Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada.

-sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
Simon is a standup guy.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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--
AF m

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



Text to customer isn’t a feature yet. 

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already? 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only. 



Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada. 



-sean 





On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I used Plat years ago and was happy with it. 

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar. 

Simon is a standup guy. 






From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 




Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 



we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back. 



Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.) 



-Sean 










On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So at some point 
I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform. 



Leaking toward Sonar. Have used Plat in the past. Is Powercode still alive? 

Opinions? 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 




-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

They just can't execute. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sean Heskett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:55:20 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 


we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back. 


Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.) 


-Sean 








On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So at some point 
I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform. 

Leaking toward Sonar. Have used Plat in the past. Is Powercode still alive? 
Opinions? -- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sterling Jacobson]

Oh, ok, when we looked in to that we thought it was only to text the staff 
accounts.

If you are using it then I definitely want to get that running.

We have text in from customers on our 844 number and integrated with Slack 
which is helpful, but outgoing would be awesome

From: AF  On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

We are running v1.0 still and we have  txt to customer thru twilio integration.

-Sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:43 PM Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.

Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada.

-sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
Simon is a standup guy.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sean Heskett]

We are running v1.0 still and we have  txt to customer thru twilio
integration.

-Sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:43 PM Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sterling Jacobson]

Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?



From: AF  On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.

Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada.

-sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
Simon is a standup guy.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sean Heskett]

Yes sonar will still integrate with procera/sanvine, also sisae (or however
you spell it) and of course preseem.

In fact if you find something you want sonar to integrate with they will
dedicate the resources to make it happen.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 8:24 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does Sonar still have some sort of working arrangement with
> Procera/Sandvine?  Or is it only Preseem now?
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:56 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>>> platform.
>>>
>>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>>> alive?
>>> Opinions?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Chuck McCown]

Not wanting to shake his tree.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 22, 2020, at 9:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> Plus I thought Charles Wu was a hydroponic farmer.  OK, that’s old, checking 
> LinkedIn, he’s now a Cannabis Strategist.
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-wu
>  
> Maybe he’s a joker, a smoker, and a midnight toker.
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:03 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>  
> Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands 
> many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul
>  
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of Bertram.  
> Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be 
> misremembering that last part.
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>  
> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>  
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>  
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it. 
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar. 
> Simon is a standup guy. 
>  
> From: Sean Heskett
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>  
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>  
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
> was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
> months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
> to Sonar and haven't looked back. 
>  
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>  
> -Sean
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform. 
>  
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
> Opinions?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

Plus I thought Charles Wu was a hydroponic farmer.  OK, that’s old, checking 
LinkedIn, he’s now a Cannabis Strategist.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-wu

 

Maybe he’s a joker, a smoker, and a midnight toker.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands many 
times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of Bertram.  
Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be misremembering 
that last part.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?

 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  

Simon is a standup guy.  

 

From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 

 

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.  

 

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

 

-Sean

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Steve Jones]

Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands
many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of
> Bertram.  Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be
> misremembering that last part.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of Bertram.  
Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be misremembering 
that last part.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?

 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  

Simon is a standup guy.  

 

From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 

 

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.  

 

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

 

-Sean

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Jason McKemie]

Does Sonar still have some sort of working arrangement with
Procera/Sandvine?  Or is it only Preseem now?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:56 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>> platform.
>>
>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>> alive?
>> Opinions?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sean Heskett]

if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.

Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
enchilada.

-sean


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:

> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>> platform.
>>
>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>> alive?
>> Opinions?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  
So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  
Simon is a standup guy.  

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.  

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
  Opinions?
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  
So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  
Simon is a standup guy.  

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
to Sonar and haven't looked back.  

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
  Opinions?
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Sean Heskett]

Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.

we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.

Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)

-Sean




On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:

> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
> Opinions?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light moving and 
collect the revenue.At least that is what I am attempting to pull off...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates with 
Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.

 

Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of past 
decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

   

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

  Opinions?

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

I like the idea of Sonar.  I don’t have to host anything. I don’t have to 
backup anything.  I don’t have to upgrade anything.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates with 
Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.

 

Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of past 
decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

   

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

  Opinions?

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Yes.  Mikrotik won't let you monitor snmp etc 

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] billing
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:16 PM

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure whythey want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though



On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:




Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?



 


From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing


 


I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new 
version cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be 
telling the boss we need to look elsewhere

 


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM 
 wrote:





I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So 
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing 
platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is 
Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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list
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

They have made it talk to mikrotik now too. Or preseem or...  Or

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] billing
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:09 PM

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing


I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new 
version cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be 
telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM 
 wrote:




I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So 
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
platform.  

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is 
Powercode still alive?
Opinions?-- AF mailing 
listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- AF mailing 
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

We have ours on a vultr host.  Anywhere in the cloud can work. At one point a 
generation of powercode recommended this as a stop gap measure while we were 
upgrading some internal server 

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] billing
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:09 PM

Do you have to host it locally?




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing


I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new 
version cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be 
telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM 
 wrote:




I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So 
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
platform.  

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is 
Powercode still alive?
Opinions?-- AF mailing 
listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates with 
Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.

 

Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of past 
decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Steve Jones]

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu
to make them useful, not sure why
they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:

> Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version
> cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be
> telling the boss we need to look elsewhere
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:
>
>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>> platform.
>>
>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>> alive?
>> Opinions?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
  Opinions?
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

Do you have to host it locally?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
  Opinions?
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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