Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Lewis Bergman]

How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty
cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then
I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went
to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the
support that was the big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently
maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech
support time on it. More than anything else by far. Kind of a hidden
expense but definitely still there. We had, I think, 8000 users on the
system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred domains.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the
> number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does
> now, other than some disks  which aren't expensive.
>
> I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service
> provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not
> really a major expense.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:08:29 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> For me it wasn't about difficulty it was about expense. Email, at least
> how we did it, was a cost center not a profit center. I kept it until I
> sold and wish I would have ditched it much sooner. It was by far the
> biggest tech support PITA.
>
> I did learn afterward that the longer someone has an email address the
> more they are willing to pay to keep it. I have been raising he fee we
> charge to use those old emails. I am now at $250 a year for a single email
> and I have people begging me not to cut it off. I am still going to, but I
> think it is interesting since I used to give it away.
>
> I guess what I am saying is that if you do not charge a decent amount for
> it, why do it? The there is the whole minimum volume to be profitable thing
> that comes into play. I just would not keep doing something that doesn't
> make money. If it does, more power to you.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:18 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their
>> own e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail
>> to be that difficult to manage.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>
>>
>> I hope you are charging handsomely for email.  We just quit it for our
>> customer base...and only had 2-3 complaints.  Everyone already has an email
>> address.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail
>>> to individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)?
>>>
>>> Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot.
>>>
>>> I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing
>>> TLSv1.2 on smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains
>>> on the dovecot server.
>>>
>>> Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using
>>> roundcube in a production environment.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

[Brian Webster]

For the DOD I was referring more to the domestic use of radios on bases. Their 
security/law enforcement and other uses like public works and such all have to 
utilize P25 radios, that has been mandated for over 10 years now.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

 

Re: your last paragraph, about the DOD, I'm pretty sure P25 is just another 
software load on a software defined radio. For military use things like the 
SINCGARS radios (Harris) are software defined and only talk to other DOD 
radios. I could see them wanting to have the ability to talk to public safety 
agencies in a major disaster situation but I do not think the DOD uses P25 
natively.

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

P25 or Project 25 was a Motorola proprietary technology that was developed in 
the 80’s. They championed it to APCO to become the digital standard for public 
safety radio systems. APCO would not adopt it until Motorola agree to license 
it to other manufacturers. That delayed the process a very long time and 
Motorola went kicking and screaming in to the agreements at first. It was not 
cheap for a manufacturer to go that way but APCO did not want a single vendor 
solution. In the rest of the world the Tetra standard was adopted but again 
this are older technologies. Now the push is for LTE and Voice over LTE. When 
the FCC mandated narrowbanding for analog VHF and UHF radio systems they gave a 
15 year window to migrate. Even with that much lead time big cities like NYC, 
Boston, DC and others did not make the deadline because it was typically a 
complete system replacement. These big cities got waivers with a plan to 
migrate, those plans were special licenses for the Firstnet spectrum and the 
plan to develop a public safety grade/reliable voice over IP type network to 
become their primary dispatch radio system in conjunction with their data 
deployments. That VoLTE development is ongoing. They need a lot more 
reliability than what Nextel and CDMA push to talk cellular solutions currently 
deliver. 

 

Given that VoLTE development and the push for FirstNet systems, many folks 
argue that it’s a waste of money to go P25 at this point. There are even some 
Tetra deployments now in the US. Seems to me a standard that follows LTE and 
will also work in the narrowband spectrum of public safety radio systems is 
more productive. I started my wireless career in public safety radio designing 
and selling Motorola systems. I think they build a great product but P25 radios 
are way too expensive for smaller agencies to afford them. With the 
proliferation of sub $100 FCC approved Chinese radios out there, it’s real hard 
to justify these digital systems when one is on a budget. P25 radios are in the 
$1500 per radio price range. Small fire, EMS and law enforcement agencies have 
a hard time paying those prices. There are benefits to digital systems but in 
all honesty many users don’t take advantage of them. The cost of the central 
site controllers for the system really pushes the price tag up. To add insult 
to injury almost all federal grant programs now state that if there are radios 
involved, they HAVE to be P25 compliant. The DOD has mandated all radios be P25 
compliant. If Utah is getting grant money that is probably why they are going 
P25.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

 

Thanks, that is helpful.

 

From: George Skorup   

Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 2:50 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

 

Illinois has state-wide P25 (owned and operated by Motorola Solutions). 
Interoperability between agencies and all of the other P25 stuff is nice, but 
every little town can't afford it and that's why we still have little dispatch 
centers that represent small communities and make use of regular old analog 
VHF. Plus, a lot of users on the state system say the coverage sucks, and that 
would be Motorola not building enough sites.

On 11/4/2015 1:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

In Utah, there is a very very large proposal to change all the 2-way radios for 
public safety out to a P25 system.� Some of the opponents say this is an 
outdated system.� I had not heard that before.� Looking for opinions.� 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

[Lewis Bergman]

A central or core controller is not required for P25. P25 is just the
protocol. We have installed dozens of P25 repeaters with no core. On the
other hand, large systems like statewide ones really have no other options
but to have some central controller if it is to have secure access control.

I will Arthur that if a radio system is viewed from a total geographical
coverage viewpoint you can do that cheaper in one large system than by
hundreds of independent ones. Convincing small departments to replace great
to get there may be impossible.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015, 6:35 AM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> If anyone tells you digital radio had better audio quality than analog
> they are lying. And another thing, all commercial radio systems regardless
> of manufacturers, protocol, etc use the AMBE2+ vocoder so as far as digital
> audio goes, they are all going to sound pretty much the same.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:45 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I am talking about sound quality...don't like the digitized
>> voice...sounds robotic and requires repetition to understandmany are
>> changing from Motorola to Harris and ones I mentioned.  I prefer the analog
>> voiceI have worked on all of the above.yes a 140.00 dollar Icom is
>> not a 450.00 Motorolabut it sounds better to my delicate ears.  Wasn't
>> kicking a sacred cow
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> On Nov 4, 2015 6:36 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>>
>>> Good to know you base your opinion on fact.
>>> There are several reasons Kenwood and ICOM are inferior but most of them
>>> don't show up until you have a larger commercial system with lots of users.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 6:01 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> Sounds crappyno matter what anyone says.   I like the Kenwood and
 Icom better


 Jaime Solorza
 On Nov 4, 2015 4:57 PM, "Brian Webster" 
 wrote:

> P25 or Project 25 was a Motorola proprietary technology that was
> developed in the 80’s. They championed it to APCO to become the digital
> standard for public safety radio systems. APCO would not adopt it until
> Motorola agree to license it to other manufacturers. That delayed the
> process a very long time and Motorola went kicking and screaming in to the
> agreements at first. It was not cheap for a manufacturer to go that way 
> but
> APCO did not want a single vendor solution. In the rest of the world the
> Tetra standard was adopted but again this are older technologies. Now the
> push is for LTE and Voice over LTE. When the FCC mandated narrowbanding 
> for
> analog VHF and UHF radio systems they gave a 15 year window to migrate.
> Even with that much lead time big cities like NYC, Boston, DC and others
> did not make the deadline because it was typically a complete system
> replacement. These big cities got waivers with a plan to migrate, those
> plans were special licenses for the Firstnet spectrum and the plan to
> develop a public safety grade/reliable voice over IP type network to 
> become
> their primary dispatch radio system in conjunction with their data
> deployments. That VoLTE development is ongoing. They need a lot more
> reliability than what Nextel and CDMA push to talk cellular solutions
> currently deliver.
>
>
>
> Given that VoLTE development and the push for FirstNet systems, many
> folks argue that it’s a waste of money to go P25 at this point. There are
> even some Tetra deployments now in the US. Seems to me a standard that
> follows LTE and will also work in the narrowband spectrum of public safety
> radio systems is more productive. I started my wireless career in public
> safety radio designing and selling Motorola systems. I think they build a
> great product but P25 radios are way too expensive for smaller agencies to
> afford them. With the proliferation of sub $100 FCC approved Chinese 
> radios
> out there, it’s real hard to justify these digital systems when one is on 
> a
> budget. P25 radios are in the $1500 per radio price range. Small fire, EMS
> and law enforcement agencies have a hard time paying those prices. There
> are benefits to digital systems but in all honesty many users don’t take
> advantage of them. The cost of the central site controllers for the system
> really pushes the price tag up. To add insult to injury almost all federal
> grant programs now state that if there are radios involved, they HAVE to 
> be
> P25 compliant. The DOD has mandated all radios be P25 compliant. If Utah 
> is
> getting grant money that is probably why they are going P25.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

[Lewis Bergman]

The DOD does use P25. I have installed numerous DoD P25 systems over the
last 5 years. Those radios though are not a typical tactical radio, which
is likely what you are thinking about.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 11:48 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Re: your last paragraph, about the DOD, I'm pretty sure P25 is just
> another software load on a software defined radio. For military use things
> like the SINCGARS radios (Harris) are software defined and only talk to
> other DOD radios. I could see them wanting to have the ability to talk to
> public safety agencies in a major disaster situation but I do not think the
> DOD uses P25 natively.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> P25 or Project 25 was a Motorola proprietary technology that was
>> developed in the 80’s. They championed it to APCO to become the digital
>> standard for public safety radio systems. APCO would not adopt it until
>> Motorola agree to license it to other manufacturers. That delayed the
>> process a very long time and Motorola went kicking and screaming in to the
>> agreements at first. It was not cheap for a manufacturer to go that way but
>> APCO did not want a single vendor solution. In the rest of the world the
>> Tetra standard was adopted but again this are older technologies. Now the
>> push is for LTE and Voice over LTE. When the FCC mandated narrowbanding for
>> analog VHF and UHF radio systems they gave a 15 year window to migrate.
>> Even with that much lead time big cities like NYC, Boston, DC and others
>> did not make the deadline because it was typically a complete system
>> replacement. These big cities got waivers with a plan to migrate, those
>> plans were special licenses for the Firstnet spectrum and the plan to
>> develop a public safety grade/reliable voice over IP type network to become
>> their primary dispatch radio system in conjunction with their data
>> deployments. That VoLTE development is ongoing. They need a lot more
>> reliability than what Nextel and CDMA push to talk cellular solutions
>> currently deliver.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given that VoLTE development and the push for FirstNet systems, many
>> folks argue that it’s a waste of money to go P25 at this point. There are
>> even some Tetra deployments now in the US. Seems to me a standard that
>> follows LTE and will also work in the narrowband spectrum of public safety
>> radio systems is more productive. I started my wireless career in public
>> safety radio designing and selling Motorola systems. I think they build a
>> great product but P25 radios are way too expensive for smaller agencies to
>> afford them. With the proliferation of sub $100 FCC approved Chinese radios
>> out there, it’s real hard to justify these digital systems when one is on a
>> budget. P25 radios are in the $1500 per radio price range. Small fire, EMS
>> and law enforcement agencies have a hard time paying those prices. There
>> are benefits to digital systems but in all honesty many users don’t take
>> advantage of them. The cost of the central site controllers for the system
>> really pushes the price tag up. To add insult to injury almost all federal
>> grant programs now state that if there are radios involved, they HAVE to be
>> P25 compliant. The DOD has mandated all radios be P25 compliant. If Utah is
>> getting grant money that is probably why they are going P25.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:56 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, that is helpful.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* George Skorup 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 2:50 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
>>
>>
>>
>> Illinois has state-wide P25 (owned and operated by Motorola Solutions).
>> Interoperability between agencies and all of the other P25 stuff is nice,
>> but every little town can't afford it and that's why we still have little
>> dispatch centers that represent small communities and make use of regular
>> old analog VHF. Plus, a lot of users on the state system say the coverage
>> sucks, and that would be Motorola not building enough sites.
>>
>> On 11/4/2015 1:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> In Utah, there is a very very large proposal to change all the 2-way
>> radios for public safety out to a P25 system.� Some of the opponents say
>> this is an outdated system.� I had not heard that before.� Looking for
>> opinions.�
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

[Mike Hammett]

It's actually the opposite. The carriers have one channel and that one channel 
is used on every radio regardless of site or azimuth. Well, unless they are 
deploying more than one channel for capacity, but then both channels are still 
deployed on everything. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 5:31:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna 

I've been an advocate for four sector layouts for a long time. Two channels 
with frequency re-use back to back. Three sectors means three channels which 
means less spectral efficiency. 

I suppose carriers have more channels than I do :) 



On 11/5/2015 12:05 AM, Daniel White wrote: 




The carriers are mostly only deploying 65 degree sectors at the macro level. 
Telrad I believe only recommends 65 degree sectors now. 

Typical 360 degree coverage is three 65 degree sectors or possibly four if 
needed for capacity, not coverage. 

Whole different world for sure. 


Thank you, 

Daniel White 
afmu...@gmail.com 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite 
Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 




From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 9:15 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna 

I suppose if you're planning a macro TD-LTE network, all of your cells are the 
same size and evenly spread out. That never works out IRL for a WISP. Beam 
steering is where we need to go, but a WISP can't afford eleventy brazillion 
dollars per site. 

The Cambium/Laird "90" degree sectors have null-full and seem to work very well 
for nearly every scenario with the 3.6 450. 60 to 240 feet high on sites with 
SMs as close as 1/4 of a mile. We do have some customers a hundred or two feet 
away (like an elevator office) and they do end up seeing the back side of the 
opposite sector a bit, but so far it hasn't been much of an issue. Just today 
we put a customer about 15 degrees from the "edge" of a "90" and there was 
still plenty signal there. The pattern does get kinda skewed and lumpy out that 
far though, and you can see that in the beamwidth plot. Good enough until we 
add another sector and turn things a bit. 

On 11/4/2015 8:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 





But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical beamwidth seems 
excessive unless you’re doing really small cells. 






From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna 



Alpha Wireless makes a great sector. Alpha is the antenna OEM for Telrad and 
Airspan among others. 

http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/ 

If you need more information let me know offlist. 

Daniel White 
Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales 
Member of the Board of Directors - WISPA 
cid:image001.png@01D0A4ED.FED87F30
Toll Free: ( 855) 471-7823 
Mobile: (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite 
Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 
www.crossoverdistribution.com 

High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services 
In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services 




From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM 
To: af  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna 


KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard good 
things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree off 
hand. 



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 




Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector antenna 
? 

Paul McCall, Pres. 
PDMNet / Florida Broadband 
658 Old Dixie Highway 
Vero Beach, FL 32962 
772-564-6800 office 
772-473-0352 cell 
www.pdmnet.com 
pa...@pdmnet.net 








Avast logo  
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 







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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Mike Hammett]

There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their own 
e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail to be 
that difficult to manage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Chuck Hogg"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our customer 
base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an email address. 







Regards, 
Chuck 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail to 
individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)? 

Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot. 

I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing TLSv1.2 on 
smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains on the dovecot 
server. 

Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using roundcube 
in a production environment. 

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

[Adam Moffett]

I've been an advocate for four sector layouts for a long time.  Two 
channels with frequency re-use back to back.  Three sectors means three 
channels which means less spectral efficiency.


I suppose carriers have more channels than I do :)


On 11/5/2015 12:05 AM, Daniel White wrote:


The carriers are mostly only deploying 65 degree sectors at the macro 
level.  Telrad I believe only recommends 65 degree sectors now.


Typical 360 degree coverage is three 65 degree sectors or possibly 
four if needed for capacity, not coverage.


Whole different world for sure.

Thank you,

Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com __

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 9:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree 
dualslant antenna


I suppose if you're planning a macro TD-LTE network, all of your cells 
are the same size and evenly spread out. That never works out IRL for 
a WISP. Beam steering is where we need to go, but a WISP can't afford 
eleventy brazillion dollars per site.


The Cambium/Laird "90" degree sectors have null-full and seem to work 
very well for nearly every scenario with the 3.6 450. 60 to 240 feet 
high on sites with SMs as close as 1/4 of a mile. We do have some 
customers a hundred or two feet away (like an elevator office) and 
they do end up seeing the back side of the opposite sector a bit, but 
so far it hasn't been much of an issue. Just today we put a customer 
about 15 degrees from the "edge" of a "90" and there was still plenty 
signal there. The pattern does get kinda skewed and lumpy out that far 
though, and you can see that in the beamwidth plot. Good enough until 
we add another sector and turn things a bit.


On 11/4/2015 8:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical
beamwidth seems excessive unless you’re doing really small cells.

*From:*Daniel White 

*Sent:*Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree
dualslant antenna

Alpha Wireless makes a great sector.  Alpha is the antenna OEM for
Telrad and Airspan among others.

http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/

If you need more information let me know offlist.

*Daniel White*

*Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales*

Member of the Board of Directors - WISPA 

*cid:image001.png@01D0A4ED.FED87F30*

*Toll Free: (*855) 471-7823

*Mobile:*(303) 746-3590

*Skype: *danieldwhite

*Social:*LinkedIn :
Twitter 

www.crossoverdistribution.com 

*High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services*

*In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services*

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM
*To:* af  
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree
dual slant antenna

KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only
ever heard good things about their antennas. I can't think of any
others in 120 degree off hand.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:

Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual
slant sector antenna ?

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 



Avast logo 



This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com 




Avast logo   

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com 

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

[Chuck Hogg]

You could always use a dome!

6 x 700 lte antennas. 12 x aws antennas, all in ONE DOME!
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.schoen.12/videos/904006073015934/

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I've been an advocate for four sector layouts for a long time.  Two
> channels with frequency re-use back to back.  Three sectors means three
> channels which means less spectral efficiency.
>
> I suppose carriers have more channels than I do :)
>
>
> On 11/5/2015 12:05 AM, Daniel White wrote:
>
> The carriers are mostly only deploying 65 degree sectors at the macro
> level.  Telrad I believe only recommends 65 degree sectors now.
>
>
>
> Typical 360 degree coverage is three 65 degree sectors or possibly four if
> needed for capacity, not coverage.
>
>
>
> Whole different world for sure.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 9:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant
> antenna
>
>
>
> I suppose if you're planning a macro TD-LTE network, all of your cells are
> the same size and evenly spread out. That never works out IRL for a WISP.
> Beam steering is where we need to go, but a WISP can't afford eleventy
> brazillion dollars per site.
>
> The Cambium/Laird "90" degree sectors have null-full and seem to work very
> well for nearly every scenario with the 3.6 450. 60 to 240 feet high on
> sites with SMs as close as 1/4 of a mile. We do have some customers a
> hundred or two feet away (like an elevator office) and they do end up
> seeing the back side of the opposite sector a bit, but so far it hasn't
> been much of an issue. Just today we put a customer about 15 degrees from
> the "edge" of a "90" and there was still plenty signal there. The pattern
> does get kinda skewed and lumpy out that far though, and you can see that
> in the beamwidth plot. Good enough until we add another sector and turn
> things a bit.
>
> On 11/4/2015 8:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical beamwidth seems
> excessive unless you’re doing really small cells.
>
>
>
> *From:* Daniel White 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant
> antenna
>
>
>
> Alpha Wireless makes a great sector.  Alpha is the antenna OEM for Telrad
> and Airspan among others.
>
>
>
> 
> http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/
>
>
>
> If you need more information let me know offlist.
>
>
>
> *Daniel White*
>
> *Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales*
>
> Member of the Board of Directors - WISPA 
>
> *[image: cid:image001.png@01D0A4ED.FED87F30]*
>
> *Toll Free: (*855) 471-7823
>
> *Mobile:*(303) 746-3590
>
> *Skype:  *danieldwhite
>
> *Social:*   LinkedIn :
> Twitter 
>
> www.crossoverdistribution.com
>
>
>
> *High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services*
>
> *In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services*
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM
> *To:* af  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant
> antenna
>
>
>
> KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard
> good things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree
> off hand.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall < 
> pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
>
> Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector
> antenna ?
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, Pres.
>
> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 office
>
> 772-473-0352 cell
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

Its purely intentional eh. 

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:45:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I'm rolling over here because you're actually typing "eh" XD


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Yeah eh.. like we just make them work in the back of the Tim Hortons for a
> few months.  Sometimes we make them clean the hockey arenas after a game.
>
> The really bad guys we just give them a coat and a pound of salami and
> drop them in the Northwest territories and say "Survive eh.. well be back
> for you next year".
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:33:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
> revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
> banned from saying sorry for a few years?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:
>
> > You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
> > legal eh..
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
> >
> > > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what
> is
> > > out there.
> > >
> > > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> > day
> > > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with
> all
> > > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
> > >
> > > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I
> think
> > > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people
> in
> > > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in
> Ohio
> > > was just stupid.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > > Feel the burn!
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But then you should read this…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And for Lucy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > > > ur
> > > > > s
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel White
> > > > >
> > > > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > > >
> > > > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > > > Social: LinkedIn :
> Twitter
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Luthman
> > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > version
> > > > > of it though?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > 

Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

[Josh Luthman]

Radios?  Big servers?  PCs?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:49 AM, SmarterBroadband <
li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:

> We are still all AC.  So powering everything.  Will look at DC one day.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:43 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)
>
>
>
> DC for life, yo.
>
>
>
> I've tried a couple of Web Power Switches.  They seem to be OK.  Not the
> best in terms of UI but it worked for me.  Other people reported some
> issues with them failing.
>
>
>
> What are you trying to power?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> What are people using for site power switches these days?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought you banished them to the US.  I assumed that was how we got 
Bieber, Shatner, etc.


-Original Message- 
From: Steve

Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Yeah eh.. like we just make them work in the back of the Tim Hortons for a 
few months.  Sometimes we make them clean the hockey arenas after a game.


The really bad guys we just give them a coat and a pound of salami and drop 
them in the Northwest territories and say "Survive eh.. well be back for you 
next year".


- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:33:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
banned from saying sorry for a few years?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:


You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
legal eh..

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> out there.
>
> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
day
> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with 
> all

> of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>
> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I 
> think

> Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> was just stupid.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > Feel the burn!
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But then you should read this…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for Lucy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > ur
> > > s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > >
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > >
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
version
> > > of it though?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > > some crazy stuff right there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > >
> > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux SyncInjector Outdoor Enclosure

[Josh Baird]

I'm traveling, but I can post some more detailed pictures of both the top
and bottom boxes this weekend hopefully.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> Josh,
>
> Do you have any more detailed pictures? I like the design a lot
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> How compact?  We have several NEMA enclosures with 2-3 SyncInjectors.
>>  We typically use 20x16.  Here is a top-of-tower design that we are using
>> to revamp several sites.  This variation only has 1, but I could easily
>> squeeze a few more in by rearranging the surge protectors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 4, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Matt  wrote:
>> >
>> > Has anyone deployed say 3 - 4 syncinjectors and a Mikrotik CRS in a
>> > compact outdoor case?  Looking to replace some Canopy CMM modules but
>> > have limited space.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[chuck]

I think they have to take a government issued time-out chair home with them and 
sit on it for a few hours each day.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime, revenue, 
jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just banned from 
saying sorry for a few years?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:

  You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all legal 
eh..

  - Original Message -
  From: "Josh Luthman" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

  > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
  > out there.
  >
  > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
  > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
  > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
  >
  > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
  > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
  > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
  > was just stupid.
  >
  > Thank you,
  >
  > Daniel White
  > afmu...@gmail.com
  > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  > Skype: danieldwhite
  > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
  >
  > > -Original Message-
  > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
  > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
  > > To: af@afmug.com
  > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  > >
  > > Feel the burn!
  > >
  > > - Original Message -
  > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
  > > To: af@afmug.com
  > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
  > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  > >
  > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
  > >
  > >
  > > Josh Luthman
  > > Office: 937-552-2340
  > > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > > 1100 Wayne St
  > > Suite 1337
  > > Troy, OH 45373
  > >
  > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
  > > wrote:
  > >
  > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
  > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > But then you should read this…
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > And for Lucy
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
  > > ur
  > > > s
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Thank you,
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Daniel White
  > > >
  > > > afmu...@gmail.com
  > > >
  > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  > > >
  > > > Skype: danieldwhite
  > > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
  > > > 
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
  > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
  > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
  > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
  > > > of it though?
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Josh Luthman
  > > > Office: 937-552-2340
  > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > > > 1100 Wayne St
  > > > Suite 1337
  > > > Troy, OH 45373
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
  > > wrote:
  > > >
  > > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > *From:* Jeremy 
  > > >
  > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
  > > >
  > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
  > > >
  > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
  > > > some crazy stuff right there.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
  > > >
  > > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
  > > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
  > > > extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are
  > > > in school, or on weekends 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>
>
>
> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>
>
>
> But then you should read this…
>
>
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>
>
>
> And for Lucy
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of
> it though?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
> crazy stuff right there.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house
> cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>
>
>
> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
> for room?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
>
>
>
> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all legal 
eh.. 

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> out there.
>
> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
> of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>
> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
> Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> was just stupid.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > Feel the burn!
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But then you should read this…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for Lucy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > ur
> > > s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > >
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > >
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
> > > of it though?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > > some crazy stuff right there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > >
> > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
> > > extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are
> > > in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have
> > > a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a
> > > boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like
> > > France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But
> > > seriously, would the local church possibly know someone looking to
> > > clean houses part time or someone looking for room?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> > > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright
> > > criminality mixed with puppy 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

That's Russia...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Did you then juggle running chainsaws while your buddy filmed it for
> Youtube?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Found out the results and then consumed a legal drug - alcohol.  The drug
> that definitely never leads to anyone getting hurt but for some reason is
> legal.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
>>> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But then you should read this…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And for Lucy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>
>>> Skype: danieldwhite
>>> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
>>> of it though?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
>>> crazy stuff right there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
>>> house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
>>> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
>>> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
>>> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
>>> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
>>> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
>>> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
>>> for room?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
>>> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
>>> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
>>> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com 
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Steve]

Nope.. just a few pervs and a lot of bit torrent users. We forward the messages 
and shame them if we can.  But it isn't solid proof of anything.  I can't 
terminate their service.  We have our own ARIN space so they automate a process 
to contact any ABUSE@ email associated with ip space.  

The organizations generally target newly released movies/shows.  It wasn't too 
bad initially but now its every single thing out there.  

Since the TPP was pretty much a done deal that is when these new legal firms 
jumped in and started sending them by the buttload.  

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:17:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

I would consult your lawyer, but I really don't see how an international 
treaty has any bearing on you unless/until US laws are changed as a result, 
which I doubt will happen or even needs to happen.

Also, if you are getting hundreds of automated requests per week now, either 
you have a boatload of customers, or you need to ask what is different about 
your customer base.  I think that is a very unusual level of DMCA notices. 
Maybe you have a lot of hotspots or something?


-Original Message- 
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New 
Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement.  But for 
the most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any copyright 
claim.

It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn over records 
or inform customers.

What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can start sending 
letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the customer the 
complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per week. Now I 
need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have to shame 
our customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it is up to 
us now to be the police and to notify customers.

Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is 
"claiming" something.

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

That's not how I read the text you cited.

It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright holders
to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright
holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to
change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where
is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more
restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't like
anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to
us.


-Original Message- 
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

We are now the internet police.


http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php

Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright
holders:

"Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that
has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain
expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the provider’s
possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that
information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that
copyright."

ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against it:

"  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service
Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on
their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright
infringement"


"An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material in
good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for
having done so, "

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Ken Hohhof]

Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.

-Original Message- 
From: Daniel White

Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I've certainly been asked to lol

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?

-Original Message-
From: Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is 
out

there.

But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all 
of

the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado
got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison, 
what is

there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Feel the burn!
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> >
> >
> >
> > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> >
> >
> >
> > But then you should read this…
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> >
> >
> >
> > And for Lucy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> ur
> > s
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel White
> >
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> >
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Luthman
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > version of it though?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeremy 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > some crazy stuff right there.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof 
wrote:
> >
> > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> >
> >
> >
> > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make
> > some extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the
> > kids are in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think
> > you’ll have a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to
> > take in a boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were
> > someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a
> > mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know
> > someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for
room?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright
> > criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
banned from saying sorry for a few years?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:

> You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
> legal eh..
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
> > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> > out there.
> >
> > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> day
> > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
> > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
> >
> > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
> > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> > was just stupid.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Daniel White
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > Feel the burn!
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But then you should read this…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And for Lucy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > > ur
> > > > s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Daniel White
> > > >
> > > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > >
> > > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> version
> > > > of it though?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > > >
> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > > >
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > >
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > > > some crazy stuff right there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make
> some
> > > > extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are
> > > > in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have
> > > > a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a
> > > > boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like
> > > > France, I’d say look 

Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

[Ken Hohhof]

Somebody posted awhile back about a CyberPower 1U switched PDU with 10 outlets 
and a built-in 2 input automatic transfer switch:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PY0KUCO

I put one in at a tower a month ago and so far have been happy with it.  It’s 
not cheap, but the ATS feature is very useful, and it’s cheaper than 
alternatives from Tripp Lite or APC, and it’s solidly built.


From: SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

We are still all AC.  So powering everything.  Will look at DC one day.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

 

DC for life, yo.

 

I've tried a couple of Web Power Switches.  They seem to be OK.  Not the best 
in terms of UI but it worked for me.  Other people reported some issues with 
them failing.

 

What are you trying to power?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:

What are people using for site power switches these days?

 

Re: [AFMUG] cacti graph template for Frame util

[Ryan Ray]

Stripped


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Steve Utick  wrote:

> Assuming the list doesn't strip it, it's should be attached.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:47 AM, David  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a cacti template for graphing frame utilization for 13.4
>> PMP450 APs?
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Chuck Hogg]

Two key things I heard in responses...

Support sucks
Not a profit center...
it's your headache, not mine!

That pretty much sums it all up.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few
> years?  At one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers
> (and two of those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or
> datacenter goes boom).  At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange)
> on two boxes.  Yeah, it's a single point of failure,  but it's also in a
> multi-host VMWare cluster.
>
> In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14
> servers for a few hundred mailboxes.  I would be willing to bet your
> headaches will get worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of
> your infrastructure, but because of the users themselves.
>
> But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine!
>
> Josh
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before
>> I knew they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in
>> about a year with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more
>> than one mailstore.
>>
>> That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x
>> the mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:59:10 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>
>> Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is
>> a little ridiculous for a few hundred users.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few hundred mailboxes.
>>>
>>> I don't really have much for user support issues. I've had to revoke
>>> accounts a couple times from users that kept handing out their password
>>> like it was candy at a parade. No real forgotten password problems. Setup
>>> just works. Hack attempts are shut down before they even try valid
>>> credentials.
>>>
>>> I'm running a seven server Zimbra cluster. Whenever I can get a little
>>> bit of time, it'll be geo and network diverse (separate cluster for all but
>>> mailboxes elsewhere with the mailboxes coming in about a year). It will be
>>> up to about 14 servers by then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:29:00 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>>
>>> How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty
>>> cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then
>>> I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went
>>> to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the
>>> support that was the big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently
>>> maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech
>>> support time on it. More than anything else by far. Kind of a hidden
>>> expense but definitely still there. We had, I think, 8000 users on the
>>> system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred domains.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
 What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the
 number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does
 now, other than some disks  which aren't expensive.

 I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service
 provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not
 really a major expense.




 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Chuck McCown]

I guess I didn’t care enough to make the effort...  and the 70s were a while 
back for me.

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA

 

"Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for crystalline 
or powder MDMA in the 2000s

 

But then you should read this…

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/

 

And for Lucy 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours

 

Thank you,

 

Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

 

Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of it 
though?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?

   

  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

   

  Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.

   

  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house 
cleaner, and look for a boarder.

 

At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?

 

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

 

Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality 
mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 

   

  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says 
“Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?  

 

Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it 
before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.





   

  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

   

 





This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Steve]

I don't deal with users at all. (Our support guys do)  We get the occasional 
call to help someone set up their tablet or phone.  That's it.  The occasional 
account gets hacked as well which we get notification about and the account 
gets suspended until they are clean of viruses.  

Plus a selling point is that you are not putting all your email out on some 
public server that can get hacked (Yahoo anyone?) and monitored and targeted 
continually. Marketed to, spammed, and privacy violated.  Having your own 
private server ensures control over your own communication and information.  


- Original Message -
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:06:37 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

All of this, except Ken's response, has nothing to do with the real cost.
The real cost is not making a server run, it is dealing with the users. The
more you have, the worse and more stupid they get which takes longer to
solve.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:52 AM Steve  wrote:

> I've run Surgemail and Zimbra without any issues for years. Surgemail is
> cheap fast and extremely configurable. It has a mirror license you can get
> so you run servers flawlessly. I nan get it installed and running in
> literally 3 minutes.  It pretty much configures itself. It isn't the best
> looking webmail but in the back end it is the most granular and fast mail
> server I've ever seen.
>
> Zimbra well its free and a somewhat decent exchange alternative.  Runs
> like a pig compared to Surgemail but it is solid.
>
> Roundcube I've run it only in test environments and I'm actually looking
> at it again for domain hosting.  So far no issues and it looks nice.  I'll
> have to see once you get a couple hundred people running on it how well it
> really works.
>
> It really isn't that much work to manage mail servers at all.  Once they
> are set up if you keep them up to date they really can be left alone.  They
> alert you to any problems ahead of time.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:18:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their
> own e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail
> to be that difficult to manage.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
>
> I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our
> customer base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an email
> address.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail to
> individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)?
>
> Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot.
>
> I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing
> TLSv1.2 on smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains
> on the dovecot server.
>
> Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using
> roundcube in a production environment.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Mike Hammett]

I might not need all 14. I may only need ten, but I'm prepared for 14. 

For me it isn't about scale, it's about performance and resiliency. Well, not 
that performance is much of an issue. 

I don't really have any e-mail headaches, so I guess I'll take that. 

All that's really different between four servers and 14 servers is the number 
of boxes to log into to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y. Well, and 
every so often I have an extra "wget {URL to new mailserver version" and 
"./install.sh" hitting enter a few times. 


I also don't expect many WISPs to have geographic and network redundancy for 
their backend. Once complete, everything critical to operations will be geo and 
network redundant. I just got the MariaDB multi-master cluster online and will 
be migrating my RADIUS, authoritative DNS, etc. to run off that cluster instead 
of the local boxes they are now. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Josh Baird"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:25:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few years? At 
one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers (and two of 
those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or datacenter goes boom). 
At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange) on two boxes. Yeah, it's a 
single point of failure, but it's also in a multi-host VMWare cluster. 


In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14 servers for 
a few hundred mailboxes. I would be willing to bet your headaches will get 
worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of your infrastructure, 
but because of the users themselves. 


But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine! 


Josh 


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before I knew 
they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in about a year 
with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more than one mailstore. 

That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x the 
mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 




From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:59:10 AM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is a 
little ridiculous for a few hundred users. 


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I have a few hundred mailboxes. 

I don't really have much for user support issues. I've had to revoke accounts a 
couple times from users that kept handing out their password like it was candy 
at a parade. No real forgotten password problems. Setup just works. Hack 
attempts are shut down before they even try valid credentials. 

I'm running a seven server Zimbra cluster. Whenever I can get a little bit of 
time, it'll be geo and network diverse (separate cluster for all but mailboxes 
elsewhere with the mailboxes coming in about a year). It will be up to about 14 
servers by then. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 




From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:29:00 AM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty cheap. I 
built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then I got to a 
place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went to Magicmail 
which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the support that was the 
big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently maybe yours would be 
cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech support time on it. More than 
anything else by far. Kind of a hidden expense but definitely still there. We 
had, I think, 8000 users on the system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred 
domains. 


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the number of 
mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does now, other 
than some disks which aren't expensive. 

I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service 
provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not 
really a major expense. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Daniel White]

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out 
there.

But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day when 
the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of the 
extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in 
prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was 
just stupid.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Feel the burn!
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> >
> >
> >
> > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> >
> >
> >
> > But then you should read this…
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> >
> >
> >
> > And for Lucy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> ur
> > s
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel White
> >
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> >
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
> > of it though?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeremy 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > some crazy stuff right there.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >
> > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> >
> >
> >
> > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
> > extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are
> > in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have
> > a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a
> > boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like
> > France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But
> > seriously, would the local church possibly know someone looking to
> > clean houses part time or someone looking for room?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright
> > criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
> > “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
> >
> >
> >
> > Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
> > before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> > team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > [image: Avast logo] 
> >
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > www.avast.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Steve]

My cost over the past 7 years for email (purchasing the server software, the 
support running in an already minimal virtualized environment) probably is 
around $3 spent per user.  

Bandwidth usage is minimal.  Cpu is minimal.  Disk space for 2000 users right 
now is still around 100GB.  

This server literally could run on a regular PC all the way to 1 users.  A 
PC.  

I'd have to actually go through our support tickets which are categorized by 
type to see which ones are email related but those guys are on staff anyway and 
would be whatever the case.  We have 1 guy on at all times.  So there is no 
additional cost for email.  

So can't see how money is an issue.  


- Original Message -
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:31:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

What I get out of this discussion is that the guy who thinks it is no
trouble or that expensive is not the guy writing the check. No offense, but
I often have a much different view of a reasonable cost for something than
my people do. Sometimes I think it is worth a lot more, sometimes a lot
less. I am sure your system is nice and it sounds like it works great. As
long as it works for you.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I might not need all 14. I may only need ten, but I'm prepared for 14.
>
> For me it isn't about scale, it's about performance and resiliency. Well,
> not that performance is much of an issue.
>
> I don't really have any e-mail headaches, so I guess I'll take that.
>
> All that's really different between four servers and 14 servers is the
> number of boxes to log into to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y.
> Well, and every so often I have an extra "wget {URL to new mailserver
> version" and "./install.sh" hitting enter a few times.
>
>
> I also don't expect many WISPs to have geographic and network redundancy
> for their backend. Once complete, everything critical to operations will be
> geo and network redundant. I just got the MariaDB multi-master cluster
> online and will be migrating my RADIUS, authoritative DNS, etc. to run off
> that cluster instead of the local boxes they are now.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:25:11 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few
> years?  At one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers
> (and two of those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or
> datacenter goes boom).  At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange)
> on two boxes.  Yeah, it's a single point of failure,  but it's also in a
> multi-host VMWare cluster.
>
> In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14
> servers for a few hundred mailboxes.  I would be willing to bet your
> headaches will get worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of
> your infrastructure, but because of the users themselves.
>
> But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine!
>
> Josh
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before
>> I knew they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in
>> about a year with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more
>> than one mailstore.
>>
>> That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x
>> the mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space.
>>
> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:59:10 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>
>> Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is
>> a little ridiculous for a few hundred users.
>>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett 

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Josh Luthman]

Look up Mail Xstream.  I pay them like $5/mo for all of the things that
need mailed out.  In my case, Powercode automatically "prints" them to
their API, so there is 0 effort on a monthly basis.

It's cheaper than her doing them even if you're not paying her.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Short of first line support, I do the whole show. I write the checks
> (well, save the CC info. I don't write checks. Checks suck.) for the
> servers and the support contract, upgrade the servers, build the servers,
> reached out for blacklist remediation the three times I've been blacklisted
> in 15 years of running a mail server, etc.
>
> Sorry, not everything. My fiance folds, stuffs, stamps and mails the paper
> invoices to the customers that still want them.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:31:00 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> What I get out of this discussion is that the guy who thinks it is no
> trouble or that expensive is not the guy writing the check. No offense, but
> I often have a much different view of a reasonable cost for something than
> my people do. Sometimes I think it is worth a lot more, sometimes a lot
> less. I am sure your system is nice and it sounds like it works great. As
> long as it works for you.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I might not need all 14. I may only need ten, but I'm prepared for 14.
>>
>> For me it isn't about scale, it's about performance and resiliency. Well,
>> not that performance is much of an issue.
>>
>> I don't really have any e-mail headaches, so I guess I'll take that.
>>
>> All that's really different between four servers and 14 servers is the
>> number of boxes to log into to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y.
>> Well, and every so often I have an extra "wget {URL to new mailserver
>> version" and "./install.sh" hitting enter a few times.
>>
>>
>> I also don't expect many WISPs to have geographic and network redundancy
>> for their backend. Once complete, everything critical to operations will be
>> geo and network redundant. I just got the MariaDB multi-master cluster
>> online and will be migrating my RADIUS, authoritative DNS, etc. to run off
>> that cluster instead of the local boxes they are now.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:25:11 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>
>> But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few
>> years?  At one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers
>> (and two of those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or
>> datacenter goes boom).  At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange)
>> on two boxes.  Yeah, it's a single point of failure,  but it's also in a
>> multi-host VMWare cluster.
>>
>> In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14
>> servers for a few hundred mailboxes.  I would be willing to bet your
>> headaches will get worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of
>> your infrastructure, but because of the users themselves.
>>
>> But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine!
>>
>> Josh
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before
>>> I knew they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in
>>> about a year with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more
>>> than one mailstore.
>>>
>>> That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x
>>> the mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space.
>>>
>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

Yeah eh.. like we just make them work in the back of the Tim Hortons for a few 
months.  Sometimes we make them clean the hockey arenas after a game.  

The really bad guys we just give them a coat and a pound of salami and drop 
them in the Northwest territories and say "Survive eh.. well be back for you 
next year".  

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:33:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
banned from saying sorry for a few years?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:

> You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
> legal eh..
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
> > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> > out there.
> >
> > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> day
> > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
> > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
> >
> > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
> > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> > was just stupid.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Daniel White
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > Feel the burn!
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But then you should read this…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And for Lucy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > > ur
> > > > s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Daniel White
> > > >
> > > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > >
> > > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> version
> > > > of it though?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > > >
> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > > >
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > >
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > > > some crazy stuff right there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Simon Westlake]

If most of your email customers are businesses, I would guess that is 
certainly the case (or they have an 'IT guy' running around that can 
help Mary who can't get into her email this morning.) Doubly so if 
you're outsourcing tier 1, as I would hope most of the simple issues get 
solved at that level.


I started off my career doing technical support for a large ISP, and I 
think Ken downplays his stories based on my experiences. Although, maybe 
things are easier nowadays. I can still remember trying to walk an old 
lady through downloading Netscape via command line FTP so we could get 
something or other working because her IE was busted. I would rather do 
that 100 times over than do email support over the phone. Trying to 
remember where every menu was for every obscure email client people were 
using, hearing over and over again 'I don't see a 'Tools' button, wait, 
am I supposed to be in Outlook and not Solitaire?'


On 11/5/2015 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Texting is so 2000 - 2005.  ;-)


I simply don't have that many calls about e-mail support. Maybe it's 
because most of my boxes are businesses and it's more controlled. 
Maybe it's because I've implemented different files on my servers so 
different programs and devices auto-configure (short of e-mail and 
password).


*shrugs*

All of my first tier of support is outsourced. Not that big of an issue.


Ken, I've often thought based upon your stories of your customers that 
I have the smarter customers in our area.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com



*From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:13:41 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

For the typical WISP, I think it’s 3 facts:
Fact 1:  10% of customers are morons
Fact 2:  10% of customers will get an email account from you
Fact 3:  they are the same 10%
It sounds like Lewis had a lot of business customers with their own 
domains, that’s maybe a different and possibly more attractive 
scenario depending on how you structure it and, as he says, how much 
you charge.
People getting their email credentials compromised and used by 
spammers are a constant problem.  And the people constantly getting a 
new iDevice and calling from the iStore for help.  If these people 
don’t even understand how email works, why do they want to get it on 5 
different devices?  Can’t they just do like the kids and send text 
messages?
It was easier when we mainly sold dialup and the job mainly consisted 
of sitting in the office talking to people on the phone.  But spending 
an hour on the phone with a clueless email customer is less fun when 
your network and techs are mostly out in the field.
I compare it to the threads about WISP support, where some here say 
they don’t get any calls because they don’t have network problems.  
OK, so last weekend I had a guy whose POE was plugged into a wall 
outlet controlled by a light switch.  Another said “Linksys” was 
unavailable.  One guy bought a new laptop and his WiFi password kept 
getting rejected – turns out he had answered “Dvorak right handed” to 
the keyboard question, because he was right handed.  None of this had 
anything to do with network problems!
So email support is like that, all the morons sign up for email from 
you, and you have to support them. Unless you structure things so you 
don’t support them. Do they call GMail for stupid support issues?  The 
problem might be you probably sell them Internet, so it is hard to 
enforce a self-serve support policy, they know where you live and will 
bug you until you help them.
Maybe one approach is to outsource all email customer support, to make 
the cost per customer more visible. Then compare to the revenue per 
customer.  Since unlike the big guys, we aren’t making money from data 
mining.

*From:* Lewis Bergman 
*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty 
cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. 
Then I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so 
we went to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it 
it was the support that was the big dollar sign. If you set 
expectations differently maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I 
spent a lot of user tech support time on it. More than anything else 
by far. Kind of a hidden expense but 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[chuck]

So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?

-Original Message- 
From: Daniel White

Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out 
there.


But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day 
when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of 
the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.


Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in 
prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was 
just stupid.


Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Feel the burn!

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
wrote:

> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>
>
>
> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>
>
>
> But then you should read this…
>
>
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>
>
>
> And for Lucy
>
>
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
ur
> s
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
> of it though?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
wrote:
>
> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> some crazy stuff right there.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>
>
>
> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are
> in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have
> a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a
> boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like
> France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But
> seriously, would the local church possibly know someone looking to
> clean houses part time or someone looking for room?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright
> criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown 
wrote:
>
> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug 
> reference?

>
>
>
> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Daniel White]

Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA



"Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for crystalline 
or powder MDMA in the 2000s



But then you should read this…



http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/



And for Lucy



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of it 
though?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?



From: Jeremy 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some crazy 
stuff right there.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:

My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house 
cleaner, and look for a boarder.



At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some extra 
money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in school, or 
on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time finding 
someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder who pays 
rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon 
on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know someone 
looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?





From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm  > wrote:

Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality mixed 
with puppy dogs for sale.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says “Molly 
and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?



Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it before.  
Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.







--

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.







---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[AFMUG] Cambium Routers

[Steve]

Anyone working with it a little closer know if they plan on adding the 
netflow/sflow/jflow functionality to it?  I just logged into my first unit to 
realize yes it actually is DD-WRT untouched but some of the versions of DD-WRT 
did have netflow capability.  

Anyone know if they plan on adding it? 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

I'm rolling over here because you're actually typing "eh" XD


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Yeah eh.. like we just make them work in the back of the Tim Hortons for a
> few months.  Sometimes we make them clean the hockey arenas after a game.
>
> The really bad guys we just give them a coat and a pound of salami and
> drop them in the Northwest territories and say "Survive eh.. well be back
> for you next year".
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:33:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
> revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
> banned from saying sorry for a few years?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:
>
> > You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
> > legal eh..
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
> >
> > > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what
> is
> > > out there.
> > >
> > > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> > day
> > > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with
> all
> > > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
> > >
> > > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I
> think
> > > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people
> in
> > > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in
> Ohio
> > > was just stupid.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > > Feel the burn!
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But then you should read this…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And for Lucy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > > > ur
> > > > > s
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel White
> > > > >
> > > > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > > >
> > > > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > > > Social: LinkedIn :
> Twitter
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Luthman
> > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > version
> > > > > of it though?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > > Suite 1337
> > > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, that makes sense.  I 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Ken Hohhof]

Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

  Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.



  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA



  "Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for crystalline 
or powder MDMA in the 2000s



  But then you should read this…



  http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/



  And for Lucy 



  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours



  Thank you,



  Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of it 
though?






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?



From: Jeremy 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house 
cleaner, and look for a boarder.



  At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?





  From: Lewis Bergman 

  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright 
criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that 
says “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference? 
 



  Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it 
before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.








--
  This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 
   

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Steve]

Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New 
Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement.  But for the 
most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any copyright claim.  

It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn over records or 
inform customers. 

What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can start sending 
letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the customer the 
complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per week. Now I 
need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have to shame our 
customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it is up to us now 
to be the police and to notify customers.  

Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is 
"claiming" something.  

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

That's not how I read the text you cited.

It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright holders 
to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright 
holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to 
change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where 
is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more 
restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't like 
anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to 
us.


-Original Message- 
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

We are now the internet police.


http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php

Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright 
holders:

"Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that 
has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain 
expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the provider’s 
possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that 
information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that 
copyright."

ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against it:

"  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service 
Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on 
their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright 
infringement"


"An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material in 
good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for 
having done so, "

Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

[SmarterBroadband]

I know of APC and Digital Loggers.   Just interested to know if anyone 
recommends anything else.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

 

Switches, Routers, AP Radios, Backhauls.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

 

Radios?  Big servers?  PCs?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:49 AM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:

We are still all AC.  So powering everything.  Will look at DC one day.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

 

DC for life, yo.

 

I've tried a couple of Web Power Switches.  They seem to be OK.  Not the best 
in terms of UI but it worked for me.  Other people reported some issues with 
them failing.

 

What are you trying to power?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:

What are people using for site power switches these days?

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

[Kerry]

We have several of Tripplite's PDUMH15ATNET.
Pros:Rack mount,  Primary and Secondary power inputs , automatic 
switchover, Net monitoring and control of loads.
Cons: The network monitoring card's reliability has been less than 
stellar, just sayin'



On 11/5/2015 12:10 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


I know of APC and Digital Loggers.   Just interested to know if anyone 
recommends anything else.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

Switches, Routers, AP Radios, Backhauls.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

Radios?  Big servers?  PCs?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:49 AM, SmarterBroadband 
> wrote:


We are still all AC.  So powering everything.  Will look at DC one day.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] 
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman

*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:43 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

DC for life, yo.

I've tried a couple of Web Power Switches.  They seem to be OK.  Not 
the best in terms of UI but it worked for me.  Other people reported 
some issues with them failing.


What are you trying to power?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, SmarterBroadband 
> wrote:


What are people using for site power switches these days?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[chuck]

The Ohio thing was deeply flawed.  Only 10 companies could grow.  Those 10 were 
already pre determined as the pot oligopoly.  They have to stop modeling things 
off of Russian business practices.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

  Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.



  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA



  "Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for crystalline 
or powder MDMA in the 2000s



  But then you should read this…



  http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/



  And for Lucy 



  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours



  Thank you,



  Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of it 
though?






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?



From: Jeremy 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house 
cleaner, and look for a boarder.



  At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?





  From: Lewis Bergman 

  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright 
criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that 
says “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference? 
 



  Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it 
before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.








--
  This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 
   

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[chuck]

Might make you drive too slow.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Found out the results and then consumed a legal drug - alcohol.  The drug that 
definitely never leads to anyone getting hurt but for some reason is legal.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA



"Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for 
crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s



But then you should read this…



http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/



And for Lucy 



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours



Thank you,



Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of 
it though?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a 
house cleaner, and look for a boarder.



At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?





From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright 
criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that 
says “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference? 
 



Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into 
it before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.







  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.









This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

Feel the burn!

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>
>
>
> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>
>
>
> But then you should read this…
>
>
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>
>
>
> And for Lucy
>
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of
> it though?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
> crazy stuff right there.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house
> cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>
>
>
> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
> for room?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
>
>
>
> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Routers

[Josh Luthman]

How did you get yours?!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Anyone working with it a little closer know if they plan on adding the
> netflow/sflow/jflow functionality to it?  I just logged into my first unit
> to realize yes it actually is DD-WRT untouched but some of the versions of
> DD-WRT did have netflow capability.
>
> Anyone know if they plan on adding it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems

[Lewis Bergman]

Not really. They are all using the max anyway as you are dealing with about
9600 kbs. The AMBE2+ vocoder is decent but at 6.25 to 12.5 KHz there isn't
a hell of a lot of room to play with.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:26 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I would think they could select the compression/voice quality.
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 8:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
> It's a vocoder so it's gonna sound mr roboto.
>
> On 11/4/2015 8:27 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> For my tower work I am happy with Cheap radios... Public safety is another
> world...but the point I so poorly tried to make Is that I like the sound of
> my Icoms over the Motorola ones used around my area...but again I didnt
> like the Harris digital voice either.  Its me.. Okay...stop making sense
> ...my head will blow up
>
> Jaime Solorza
> On Nov 4, 2015 6:56 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> Firstnet is still an 8 billion dollar pipe dream. VoLTE is still
>> vaporware. P25, like it or not, is really the only viable option right now.
>> Sure, twenty years from now P25 might not be the right option. But right
>> now, show me another?
>>
>> Tetra isn't an option because there aren't enough 25KHz channels to make
>> a large system work in most cases. And if you want to see expensive try out
>> a tetra terminal. They make P25 look reasonable. By the way, Motorola
>> invented Tetra too.
>>
>> Blaming Motorola for inventing something, and then not wanting to give it
>> away is simply rediculous. Would you do that?
>>
>> Lastly, you are not seriously comparing a $100 Chinese piece of crap to a
>> piece of gear you would bet your life on are you? Really? About the
>> cheapest P25 portable you can get is $1250 while the same model without P25
>> is about $855. So the license to do P25 is about $400. Pretty pricey no
>> doubt. Maybe to much, but also reliable.
>>
>> But, not everyone wants the reliability, interoperability, or the price
>> tag that goes with it.
>>
>> I honestly think DMR TIER 3 has some compelling arguements at a better
>> price point. But like most other protocols it is late to the party.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 6:21 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
> Thanks Brian.   No, Utah is asking the taxpayer for $236 million...
>>
>> Lots of  people arguing against it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Brian Webster 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:57 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2-way radio systems
>>
>> P25 or Project 25 was a Motorola proprietary technology that was
>> developed in the 80’s. They championed it to APCO to become the digital
>> standard for public safety radio systems. APCO would not adopt it until
>> Motorola agree to license it to other manufacturers. That delayed the
>> process a very long time and Motorola went kicking and screaming in to the
>> agreements at first. It was not cheap for a manufacturer to go that way but
>> APCO did not want a single vendor solution. In the rest of the world the
>> Tetra standard was adopted but again this are older technologies. Now the
>> push is for LTE and Voice over LTE. When the FCC mandated narrowbanding for
>> analog VHF and UHF radio systems they gave a 15 year window to migrate.
>> Even with that much lead time big cities like NYC, Boston, DC and others
>> did not make the deadline because it was typically a complete system
>> replacement. These big cities got waivers with a plan to migrate, those
>> plans were special licenses for the Firstnet spectrum and the plan to
>> develop a public safety grade/reliable voice over IP type network to become
>> their primary dispatch radio system in conjunction with their data
>> deployments. That VoLTE development is ongoing. They need a lot more
>> reliability than what Nextel and CDMA push to talk cellular solutions
>> currently deliver.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given that VoLTE development and the push for FirstNet systems, many
>> folks argue that it’s a waste of money to go P25 at this point. There are
>> even some Tetra deployments now in the US. Seems to me a standard that
>> follows LTE and will also work in the narrowband spectrum of public safety
>> radio systems is more productive. I started my wireless career in public
>> safety radio designing and selling Motorola systems. I think they build a
>> great product but P25 radios are way too expensive for smaller agencies to
>> afford them. With the proliferation of sub $100 FCC approved Chinese radios
>> out there, it’s real hard to justify these digital systems when one is on a
>> budget. P25 radios are in the $1500 per radio price range. Small fire, EMS
>> and law enforcement agencies have a hard time paying those prices. There
>> are benefits to digital systems but in all honesty many users don’t take
>> advantage of them. The cost of the central site controllers for the system

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Daniel White]

Josh is feisty today :-)



Steve I’d be surprised if most American’s even know who Trudeau is… or that you 
just had an election as well.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime, revenue, 
jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just banned from 
saying sorry for a few years?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  > wrote:

You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all legal 
eh..

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman"  >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  > wrote:

> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> out there.
>
> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
> of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>
> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
> Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> was just stupid.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com 
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On 
> > Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > Feel the burn!
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman"  >  >
> > To: af@afmug.com 
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340 
> > Direct: 937-552-2343 
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  >  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But then you should read this…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for Lucy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > ur
> > > s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > >
> > > afmu...@gmail.com 
> > >
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
> > >
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] 
> > > *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com 
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
> > > of it though?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340 
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343 
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  > >  >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Jeremy  >
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com 
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

Found out the results and then consumed a legal drug - alcohol.  The drug
that definitely never leads to anyone getting hurt but for some reason is
legal.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
>> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>>
>>
>>
>> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
>> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>>
>>
>>
>> But then you should read this…
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>>
>>
>>
>> And for Lucy
>>
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>
>> Skype: danieldwhite
>> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>>
>>
>> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of
>> it though?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>>
>>
>> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
>> crazy stuff right there.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house
>> cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
>> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
>> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
>> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
>> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
>> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
>> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
>> for room?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>>
>>
>> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
>> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
>> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
>>
>>
>>
>> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
>> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Mike Hammett]

Texting is so 2000 - 2005. ;-) 


I simply don't have that many calls about e-mail support. Maybe it's because 
most of my boxes are businesses and it's more controlled. Maybe it's because 
I've implemented different files on my servers so different programs and 
devices auto-configure (short of e-mail and password). 

*shrugs* 

All of my first tier of support is outsourced. Not that big of an issue. 


Ken, I've often thought based upon your stories of your customers that I have 
the smarter customers in our area. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:13:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 




For the typical WISP, I think it’s 3 facts: 

Fact 1: 10% of customers are morons 
Fact 2: 10% of customers will get an email account from you 
Fact 3: they are the same 10% 

It sounds like Lewis had a lot of business customers with their own domains, 
that’s maybe a different and possibly more attractive scenario depending on how 
you structure it and, as he says, how much you charge. 

People getting their email credentials compromised and used by spammers are a 
constant problem. And the people constantly getting a new iDevice and calling 
from the iStore for help. If these people don’t even understand how email 
works, why do they want to get it on 5 different devices? Can’t they just do 
like the kids and send text messages? 

It was easier when we mainly sold dialup and the job mainly consisted of 
sitting in the office talking to people on the phone. But spending an hour on 
the phone with a clueless email customer is less fun when your network and 
techs are mostly out in the field. 

I compare it to the threads about WISP support, where some here say they don’t 
get any calls because they don’t have network problems. OK, so last weekend I 
had a guy whose POE was plugged into a wall outlet controlled by a light 
switch. Another said “Linksys” was unavailable. One guy bought a new laptop and 
his WiFi password kept getting rejected – turns out he had answered “Dvorak 
right handed” to the keyboard question, because he was right handed. None of 
this had anything to do with network problems! 

So email support is like that, all the morons sign up for email from you, and 
you have to support them. Unless you structure things so you don’t support 
them. Do they call GMail for stupid support issues? The problem might be you 
probably sell them Internet, so it is hard to enforce a self-serve support 
policy, they know where you live and will bug you until you help them. 

Maybe one approach is to outsource all email customer support, to make the cost 
per customer more visible. Then compare to the revenue per customer. Since 
unlike the big guys, we aren’t making money from data mining. 





From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:29 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty cheap. I 
built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then I got to a 
place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went to Magicmail 
which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the support that was the 
big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently maybe yours would be 
cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech support time on it. More than 
anything else by far. Kind of a hidden expense but definitely still there. We 
had, I think, 8000 users on the system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred 
domains. 


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the number of 
mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does now, other 
than some disks which aren't expensive. 

I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service 
provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not 
really a major expense. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 






From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:08:29 AM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


For me it wasn't about difficulty it was about expense. Email, at least how we 
did it, was a cost center not a profit center. I kept it until I sold and wish 
I would have ditched it much sooner. It was by far the biggest tech support 
PITA. 

I did learn afterward that the longer someone has an email address the more 
they are willing to pay to keep it. I have been raising he fee we charge to use 
those old emails. I am now at $250 a year for a single email and I have people 
begging me not to cut it off. I am 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

I'd say sorry but I'm not Canadian! =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

> Josh is feisty today :-)
>
>
>
> Steve I’d be surprised if most American’s even know who Trudeau is… or
> that you just had an election as well.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>
>
> That doesn't solve the problem that Danny listed was fixed - crime,
> revenue, jail population.  Do Canadians even have jails?  Or are they just
> banned from saying sorry for a few years?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Steve  wrote:
>
> You guys can always come up here eh.. Trudeau is gonna like make it all
> legal eh..
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:29:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> I agree.  And issue 2 was 51/49 *facepalm*
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
> > Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
> > out there.
> >
> > But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> day
> > when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
> > of the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
> >
> > Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
> > Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> > prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio
> > was just stupid.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Daniel White
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > Feel the burn!
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But then you should read this…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And for Lucy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > > ur
> > > > s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Daniel White
> > > >
> > > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > > >
> > > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> version
> > > > of it though?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > > >
> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > > >
> > > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > >
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > > >
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Ken Hohhof]

Did you then juggle running chainsaws while your buddy filmed it for Youtube?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Found out the results and then consumed a legal drug - alcohol.  The drug that 
definitely never leads to anyone getting hurt but for some reason is legal.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:

Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA



"Molly", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for 
crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s



But then you should read this…



http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/



And for Lucy 



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours



Thank you,



Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of 
it though?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



  Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a 
house cleaner, and look for a boarder.



At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?





From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist



Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright 
criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 



  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that 
says “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference? 
 



Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into 
it before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.







  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.









This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

Where dashcams are born.  

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:14:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

That's Russia...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Did you then juggle running chainsaws while your buddy filmed it for
> Youtube?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Found out the results and then consumed a legal drug - alcohol.  The drug
> that definitely never leads to anyone getting hurt but for some reason is
> legal.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Josh only says that because they just voted not to put the HI in OHIO.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:00 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
>>> crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But then you should read this…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And for Lucy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumours
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>
>>> Skype: danieldwhite
>>> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version
>>> of it though?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
>>> crazy stuff right there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
>>> house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
>>> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
>>> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
>>> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
>>> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
>>> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
>>> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
>>> for room?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
>>> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
>>> “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
>>> before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux SyncInjector Outdoor Enclosure

[Joe Novak]

Josh,

Do you have any more detailed pictures? I like the design a lot



Joe

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> How compact?  We have several NEMA enclosures with 2-3 SyncInjectors.   We
> typically use 20x16.  Here is a top-of-tower design that we are using to
> revamp several sites.  This variation only has 1, but I could easily
> squeeze a few more in by rearranging the surge protectors.
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 4, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Matt  wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone deployed say 3 - 4 syncinjectors and a Mikrotik CRS in a
> > compact outdoor case?  Looking to replace some Canopy CMM modules but
> > have limited space.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Daniel White]

I've certainly been asked to lol

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter


> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel White
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out
> there.
>
> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of
> the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>
> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
> Colorado
> got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison, what 
> is
> there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > Feel the burn!
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But then you should read this…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for Lucy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > ur
> > > s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > >
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > >
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Luthman
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > > version of it though?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Jeremy 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > > some crazy stuff right there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
> > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make
> > > some extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the
> > > kids are in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think
> > > you’ll have a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to
> > > take in a boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were
> > > someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a
> > > mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know
> > > someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for
> room?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> > > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Chuck McCown]

Ecstacy light, sounds like a beer commercial.  Has a pleasant sounding name.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of it 
though?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?

  From: Jeremy 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some 
crazy stuff right there.

  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house 
cleaner, and look for a boarder.

At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some 
extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in 
school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard time 
finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a boarder 
who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice 
young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?


From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality 
mixed with puppy dogs for sale. 

  On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says 
“Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?  

Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it 
before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Mike Hammett]

Short of first line support, I do the whole show. I write the checks (well, 
save the CC info. I don't write checks. Checks suck.) for the servers and the 
support contract, upgrade the servers, build the servers, reached out for 
blacklist remediation the three times I've been blacklisted in 15 years of 
running a mail server, etc. 

Sorry, not everything. My fiance folds, stuffs, stamps and mails the paper 
invoices to the customers that still want them. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:31:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


What I get out of this discussion is that the guy who thinks it is no trouble 
or that expensive is not the guy writing the check. No offense, but I often 
have a much different view of a reasonable cost for something than my people 
do. Sometimes I think it is worth a lot more, sometimes a lot less. I am sure 
your system is nice and it sounds like it works great. As long as it works for 
you. 


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I might not need all 14. I may only need ten, but I'm prepared for 14. 

For me it isn't about scale, it's about performance and resiliency. Well, not 
that performance is much of an issue. 

I don't really have any e-mail headaches, so I guess I'll take that. 

All that's really different between four servers and 14 servers is the number 
of boxes to log into to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y. Well, and 
every so often I have an extra "wget {URL to new mailserver version" and 
"./install.sh" hitting enter a few times. 


I also don't expect many WISPs to have geographic and network redundancy for 
their backend. Once complete, everything critical to operations will be geo and 
network redundant. I just got the MariaDB multi-master cluster online and will 
be migrating my RADIUS, authoritative DNS, etc. to run off that cluster instead 
of the local boxes they are now. 







- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 









Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 







From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:25:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 





But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few years? At 
one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers (and two of 
those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or datacenter goes boom). 
At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange) on two boxes. Yeah, it's a 
single point of failure, but it's also in a multi-host VMWare cluster. 


In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14 servers for 
a few hundred mailboxes. I would be willing to bet your headaches will get 
worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of your infrastructure, 
but because of the users themselves. 


But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine! 


Josh 




On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 









Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before I knew 
they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in about a year 
with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more than one mailstore. 

That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x the 
mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space. 











- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



























Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 
















From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:59:10 AM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 
















Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is a 
little ridiculous for a few hundred users. 















On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




















I have a few hundred mailboxes. 

I don't really have much for user support issues. I've had to revoke accounts a 
couple times from users that kept handing out their password like it was candy 
at a parade. No real forgotten password problems. Setup just works. Hack 
attempts are shut down before they even try valid credentials. 

I'm running a seven server Zimbra cluster. Whenever I can get a little bit of 
time, it'll be geo and network diverse (separate cluster for all but mailboxes 
elsewhere with the mailboxes coming in about a year). It will be up to about 14 
servers by then. 






















- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

















































Midwest Internet Exchange 

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Ken Hohhof]

That's not how I read the text you cited.

It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright holders 
to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright 
holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to 
change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where 
is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more 
restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't like 
anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to 
us.



-Original Message- 
From: Steve

Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

We are now the internet police.


http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php

Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright 
holders:


"Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that 
has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain 
expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the provider’s 
possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that 
information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that 
copyright."


ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against it:

"  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service 
Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on 
their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright 
infringement"



"An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material in 
good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for 
having done so, "

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dual slantantenna

[Ken Hohhof]

Oooh, very nice.

I wonder if el cheapo brand sectors that advertise electrical downtilt follow 
this as well?  I hope so, otherwise, what’s the point?  Mechanical tilt during 
installation is not rocket science.

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dual slantantenna

Some things I quickly found online:

 

http://www.kathrein-scala.com/tech_bulletins/MEdowntilt.pdf

 

http://commscope.com/docs/electrical-mechanical_downtilt_effect_on_pattern_performance_wp-103755.pdf

 

A quick glance at the Commscope seems to talk about variable electric tilt vs 
fixed electrical tilt… but the concept is the same.

 

Thank you,

 

Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna

 

Maybe this is a good time to ask if there is a difference between “electrical” 
and “mechanical” downtilt?

 

If not, then it’s not a big deal, other than the confusion of telling the tower 
guys to uptilt the sector 2.5 degrees if you want 2.5 degrees downtilt.

 

But 120 degrees is a wide sector, and if “electrical” downtilt means like an 
upside down ice cream cone, rather than like cranking down an awning, that 
would be an important advantage.  Because mechanical downtilt on a wide sector 
has more effect in the middle than at the edges, plus it becomes very critical 
that the sector is mounted absolutely plumb.  Otherwise you can end up aiming 
at birds on one side and worms on the other.  Last time I checked, neither 
birds nor worms pay for Internet.

 

 

From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:29 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna

 

That depends on a variety of factors right?  

 

· What is the average distance of your clients to the AP?  

· Is there elevation changes?

· What is the AGL of the antenna?

· What is the AGL of the CPE?

· How far away is the next sector/tower?

 

Effectively it’s a geometry question.  4 degree downtilt seems standard on 
carrier antennas though… but they also are trying to keep the cells smaller.  

 

Thank you,

 

Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 7:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

 

But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical beamwidth seems 
excessive unless you’re doing really small cells.

 

From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

 

Alpha Wireless makes a great sector.  Alpha is the antenna OEM for Telrad and 
Airspan among others.

 

http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/

 

If you need more information let me know offlist.

 

Daniel White

Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales

Member of the Board of Directors - WISPA



Toll Free: (855) 471-7823

Mobile:(303) 746-3590

Skype:  danieldwhite

Social:   LinkedIn: Twitter

www.crossoverdistribution.com

 

High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services

In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna

 

KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard good 
things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree off hand.

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector 
antenna ?

   

  Paul McCall, Pres.

  PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800 office

  772-473-0352 cell

  www.pdmnet.com

  pa...@pdmnet.net

   

 

 





 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

 

 





 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

 





This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Steve]

If they are bad and they don't acknowledge them we shut them off and force them 
to acknowledge.  

- Original Message -
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:17:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

In my opinion, getting multiple DMCA notices for the same customer is solid
enough to terminate their service, or at least threaten to.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Nope.. just a few pervs and a lot of bit torrent users. We forward the
> messages and shame them if we can.  But it isn't solid proof of anything.
> I can't terminate their service.  We have our own ARIN space so they
> automate a process to contact any ABUSE@ email associated with ip space.
>
> The organizations generally target newly released movies/shows.  It wasn't
> too bad initially but now its every single thing out there.
>
> Since the TPP was pretty much a done deal that is when these new legal
> firms jumped in and started sending them by the buttload.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:17:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> I would consult your lawyer, but I really don't see how an international
> treaty has any bearing on you unless/until US laws are changed as a result,
> which I doubt will happen or even needs to happen.
>
> Also, if you are getting hundreds of automated requests per week now,
> either
> you have a boatload of customers, or you need to ask what is different
> about
> your customer base.  I think that is a very unusual level of DMCA notices.
> Maybe you have a lot of hotspots or something?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:05 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New
> Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement.  But for
> the most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any copyright
> claim.
>
> It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn over
> records
> or inform customers.
>
> What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can start
> sending
> letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the customer the
> complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per week. Now
> I
> need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have to shame
> our customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it is up to
> us now to be the police and to notify customers.
>
> Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is
> "claiming" something.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> That's not how I read the text you cited.
>
> It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright
> holders
> to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright
> holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to
> change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where
> is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more
> restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't
> like
> anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to
> us.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> We are now the internet police.
>
>
>
> http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php
>
> Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright
> holders:
>
> "Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that
> has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain
> expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the
> provider’s
> possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that
> information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that
> copyright."
>
> ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against
> it:
>
> "  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service
> Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on
> their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright
> infringement"
>
>
> "An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material
> in
> good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for
> having done so, "
>

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe this is a good time to ask if there is a difference between “electrical” 
and “mechanical” downtilt?

If not, then it’s not a big deal, other than the confusion of telling the tower 
guys to uptilt the sector 2.5 degrees if you want 2.5 degrees downtilt.

But 120 degrees is a wide sector, and if “electrical” downtilt means like an 
upside down ice cream cone, rather than like cranking down an awning, that 
would be an important advantage.  Because mechanical downtilt on a wide sector 
has more effect in the middle than at the edges, plus it becomes very critical 
that the sector is mounted absolutely plumb.  Otherwise you can end up aiming 
at birds on one side and worms on the other.  Last time I checked, neither 
birds nor worms pay for Internet.


From: Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna

That depends on a variety of factors right?  

 

· What is the average distance of your clients to the AP?  

· Is there elevation changes?

· What is the AGL of the antenna?

· What is the AGL of the CPE?

· How far away is the next sector/tower?

 

Effectively it’s a geometry question.  4 degree downtilt seems standard on 
carrier antennas though… but they also are trying to keep the cells smaller.  

 

Thank you,

 

Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 7:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

 

But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical beamwidth seems 
excessive unless you’re doing really small cells.

 

From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna

 

Alpha Wireless makes a great sector.  Alpha is the antenna OEM for Telrad and 
Airspan among others.

 

http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/

 

If you need more information let me know offlist.

 

Daniel White

Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales

Member of the Board of Directors - WISPA



Toll Free: (855) 471-7823

Mobile:(303) 746-3590

Skype:  danieldwhite

Social:   LinkedIn: Twitter

www.crossoverdistribution.com

 

High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services

In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna

 

KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard good 
things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree off hand.

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector 
antenna ?

   

  Paul McCall, Pres.

  PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800 office

  772-473-0352 cell

  www.pdmnet.com

  pa...@pdmnet.net

   

 

 





 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

 





This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Adam Moffett]

interesting point.

On 11/5/2015 1:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement

Legally sufficient in the US means a warrant or subpoena. so nothing 
really changes here.


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Steve > wrote:


Nope.. just a few pervs and a lot of bit torrent users. We forward
the messages and shame them if we can.  But it isn't solid proof
of anything.  I can't terminate their service.  We have our own
ARIN space so they automate a process to contact any ABUSE@ email
associated with ip space.

The organizations generally target newly released movies/shows. 
It wasn't too bad initially but now its every single thing out there.


Since the TPP was pretty much a done deal that is when these new
legal firms jumped in and started sending them by the buttload.

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:17:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

I would consult your lawyer, but I really don't see how an
international
treaty has any bearing on you unless/until US laws are changed as
a result,
which I doubt will happen or even needs to happen.

Also, if you are getting hundreds of automated requests per week
now, either
you have a boatload of customers, or you need to ask what is
different about
your customer base.  I think that is a very unusual level of DMCA
notices.
Maybe you have a lot of hotspots or something?


-Original Message-
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New
Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement. 
But for

the most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any
copyright
claim.

It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn
over records
or inform customers.

What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can
start sending
letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the
customer the
complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per
week. Now I
need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have
to shame
our customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it
is up to
us now to be the police and to notify customers.

Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is
"claiming" something.

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

That's not how I read the text you cited.

It seems to say each country will have a legal process for
copyright holders
to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus
copyright
holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would
have to
change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this
wrong, where
is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to
pass more
restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they
don't like
anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this
applies to
us.


-Original Message-
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

We are now the internet police.



http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php

Internet service providers must give your name if requested by
copyright
holders:

"Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright
owner that
has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to
obtain
expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the
provider’s
possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that
information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that
copyright."

ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim
against it:

"  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service
Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material
residing on
their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the
copyright
infringement"


"An Internet Service Provider that removes or 

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Glen Waldrop]

I actually lost a customer over my free email.

She put her email address all over the internet, got our domain spammed like 
mad to the point that my spam filter was completely overwhelmed (2000+ spam per 
account every day, old server anyway), complained about the spam and couldn't 
be bothered to wait until I built the new email server.

I still run the email server, I don't offer email addresses to my customers 
anymore. I support about 20ish, looks like only about 5 use it. Very few of 
them actually keep up with their passwords, and it seems they don't check it 
that often either. About every 3 to 6 months I'd get a call from most of them 
about some important message they have to get and they don't have their 
password. Their email account has 4000+ messages in it (when spam filter was 
actually working), they hadn't checked it since last time they got me to reset 
their password.

Not fun.



  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube


  For the typical WISP, I think it’s 3 facts:

  Fact 1:  10% of customers are morons
  Fact 2:  10% of customers will get an email account from you
  Fact 3:  they are the same 10%

  It sounds like Lewis had a lot of business customers with their own domains, 
that’s maybe a different and possibly more attractive scenario depending on how 
you structure it and, as he says, how much you charge.

  People getting their email credentials compromised and used by spammers are a 
constant problem.  And the people constantly getting a new iDevice and calling 
from the iStore for help.  If these people don’t even understand how email 
works, why do they want to get it on 5 different devices?  Can’t they just do 
like the kids and send text messages?

  It was easier when we mainly sold dialup and the job mainly consisted of 
sitting in the office talking to people on the phone.  But spending an hour on 
the phone with a clueless email customer is less fun when your network and 
techs are mostly out in the field.

  I compare it to the threads about WISP support, where some here say they 
don’t get any calls because they don’t have network problems.  OK, so last 
weekend I had a guy whose POE was plugged into a wall outlet controlled by a 
light switch.  Another said “Linksys” was unavailable.  One guy bought a new 
laptop and his WiFi password kept getting rejected – turns out he had answered 
“Dvorak right handed” to the keyboard question, because he was right handed.  
None of this had anything to do with network problems!

  So email support is like that, all the morons sign up for email from you, and 
you have to support them.  Unless you structure things so you don’t support 
them.  Do they call GMail for stupid support issues?  The problem might be you 
probably sell them Internet, so it is hard to enforce a self-serve support 
policy, they know where you live and will bug you until you help them.

  Maybe one approach is to outsource all email customer support, to make the 
cost per customer more visible.  Then compare to the revenue per customer.  
Since unlike the big guys, we aren’t making money from data mining.


  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:29 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

  How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty cheap. 
I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then I got to a 
place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went to Magicmail 
which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the support that was the 
big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently maybe yours would be 
cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech support time on it. More than 
anything else by far. Kind of a hidden expense but definitely still there. We 
had, I think, 8000 users on the system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred 
domains.

  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the 
number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does 
now, other than some disks  which aren't expensive.

I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service 
provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not 
really a major expense.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com






From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:08:29 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube


For me it wasn't about difficulty it was about expense. Email, at least how 
we did it, was a cost center not a profit center. I kept it until I sold and 

Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

[George Skorup]

I have two Tripp Lite 3kVA UPSs in the rack in our office with the 
SNMPWEBCARDs installed. They have been working fine for nearly two years 
straight. The newer one's card has the later firmware with the stupid 
java interface and I want to smash it. Other than that, no issues, no 
lockups.


On 11/5/2015 11:22 AM, Kerry wrote:

We have several of Tripplite's PDUMH15ATNET.
Pros:Rack mount,  Primary and Secondary power inputs , automatic 
switchover, Net monitoring and control of loads.
Cons: The network monitoring card's reliability has been less than 
stellar, just sayin'



On 11/5/2015 12:10 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


I know of APC and Digital Loggers.   Just interested to know if 
anyone recommends anything else.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

Switches, Routers, AP Radios, Backhauls.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

Radios?  Big servers?  PCs?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:49 AM, SmarterBroadband 
> wrote:


We are still all AC.  So powering everything.  Will look at DC one day.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] 
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman

*Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:43 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] power Switches (PDUs)

DC for life, yo.

I've tried a couple of Web Power Switches.  They seem to be OK.  Not 
the best in terms of UI but it worked for me.  Other people reported 
some issues with them failing.


What are you trying to power?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM, SmarterBroadband 
> wrote:


What are people using for site power switches these days?

Re: [AFMUG] cacti graph template for Frame util

[Steve Utick]

OK, should be able to grab it from here:
http://www.mt.net/~sutick/cacti-450.zip


On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> Stripped
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Steve Utick  wrote:
>
>> Assuming the list doesn't strip it, it's should be attached.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:47 AM, David  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone have a cacti template for graphing frame utilization for
>>> 13.4 PMP450 APs?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[George Skorup]

Roundcube is one of the webmail apps within cPanel. They figure it all 
out and I don't mess with any of it. And the cPanel webmail interface 
lets the users manage their password, filters, etc.


We do have a couple hundred users on our domain and at the beginning of 
the year, we're going to tell them they have six months to GTFO.


On 11/5/2015 2:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail 
to individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)?


Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot.

I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing 
TLSv1.2 on smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test 
domains on the dovecot server.


Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using 
roundcube in a production environment.

[AFMUG] What's WinnAIR?

[Peter Kranz]

Some product I have never heard of.. Some kind of wireless NMS. Anyone seen
it?



 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

Re: [AFMUG] AWS going strong

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe spend some of that money preventing spam messages on mailing lists? =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

>
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/technology/amazon-aws-160-billion-dollars/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, Pres.
>
> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 office
>
> 772-473-0352 cell
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Patrick Leary]

A ray of common sense in a country with precious little of it in modern policy 
or political rhetoric.

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out 
there.

But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day when 
the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of the 
extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in 
prison, what is there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was 
just stupid.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> 
> Feel the burn!
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> 
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> wrote:
> 
> > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> >
> >
> >
> > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for 
> > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> >
> >
> >
> > But then you should read this…
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> >
> >
> >
> > And for Lucy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> ur
> > s
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel White
> >
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> >
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" 
> > version of it though?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeremy 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's 
> > some crazy stuff right there.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >
> > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a 
> > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
> >
> >
> >
> > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make 
> > some extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the 
> > kids are in school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think 
> > you’ll have a hard time finding someone.  Then if you really want to 
> > take in a boarder, find a boarder who pays rent.  If you were 
> > someplace like France, I’d say look for a nice young Mormon on a 
> > mission.  But seriously, would the local church possibly know 
> > someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking for room?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm < 
> > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright 
> > criminality mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that 
> > says “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug 
> > reference?
> >
> >
> >
> > Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into 
> > it before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > If you only see 

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Mathew Howard]

In my opinion, getting multiple DMCA notices for the same customer is solid
enough to terminate their service, or at least threaten to.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Nope.. just a few pervs and a lot of bit torrent users. We forward the
> messages and shame them if we can.  But it isn't solid proof of anything.
> I can't terminate their service.  We have our own ARIN space so they
> automate a process to contact any ABUSE@ email associated with ip space.
>
> The organizations generally target newly released movies/shows.  It wasn't
> too bad initially but now its every single thing out there.
>
> Since the TPP was pretty much a done deal that is when these new legal
> firms jumped in and started sending them by the buttload.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:17:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> I would consult your lawyer, but I really don't see how an international
> treaty has any bearing on you unless/until US laws are changed as a result,
> which I doubt will happen or even needs to happen.
>
> Also, if you are getting hundreds of automated requests per week now,
> either
> you have a boatload of customers, or you need to ask what is different
> about
> your customer base.  I think that is a very unusual level of DMCA notices.
> Maybe you have a lot of hotspots or something?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:05 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New
> Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement.  But for
> the most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any copyright
> claim.
>
> It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn over
> records
> or inform customers.
>
> What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can start
> sending
> letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the customer the
> complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per week. Now
> I
> need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have to shame
> our customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it is up to
> us now to be the police and to notify customers.
>
> Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is
> "claiming" something.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> That's not how I read the text you cited.
>
> It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright
> holders
> to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright
> holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to
> change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where
> is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more
> restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't
> like
> anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to
> us.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> We are now the internet police.
>
>
>
> http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php
>
> Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright
> holders:
>
> "Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that
> has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain
> expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the
> provider’s
> possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that
> information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that
> copyright."
>
> ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against
> it:
>
> "  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service
> Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on
> their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright
> infringement"
>
>
> "An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material
> in
> good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for
> having done so, "
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

The pot farms here in illinois are doing their hiring now, I like the
professional names for the job titles that are pretty much just drug
dealers. In true illinois fashion, we did blatant monopolies, one dope
peddler per state police district. Totally legit process, no lined pockets
in the decision, not in illinois.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.
>
> -Original Message- From: Daniel White
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> I've certainly been asked to lol
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
>
> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>> So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Daniel White
>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is
>> out
>> there.
>>
>> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
>> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all
>> of
>> the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>>
>> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think
>> Colorado
>> got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison,
>> what is
>> there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Daniel White
>> afmu...@gmail.com
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>> Skype: danieldwhite
>> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>> >
>> > Feel the burn!
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>> >
>> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
>> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > But then you should read this…
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > And for Lucy
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
>> > ur
>> > > s
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Daniel White
>> > >
>> > > afmu...@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>> > >
>> > > Skype: danieldwhite
>> > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>> > > 
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
>> Luthman
>> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
>> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
>> > > version of it though?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Josh Luthman
>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>> > > Suite 1337
>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *From:* Jeremy 
>> > >
>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
>> > >
>> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > >
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
>> > > some crazy stuff right there.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof 
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a
>> > > house cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make
>> > > some extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the
>> > > kids are in school, or on weekends as a second job. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Ken Hohhof]

If Ontario legalizes marijuana, will you be required to buy it at “The Weed 
Store”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Store


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

The pot farms here in illinois are doing their hiring now, I like the 
professional names for the job titles that are pretty much just drug dealers. 
In true illinois fashion, we did blatant monopolies, one dope peddler per state 
police district. Totally legit process, no lined pockets in the decision, not 
in illinois.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.

  -Original Message- From: Daniel White
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM 

  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  I've certainly been asked to lol

  Thank you,

  Daniel White
  afmu...@gmail.com
  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?

-Original Message-
From: Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out
there.

But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of
the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado
got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison, 
what is
there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Feel the burn!
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> >
> >
> >
> > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> >
> >
> >
> > But then you should read this…
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> >
> >
> >
> > And for Lucy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> ur
> > s
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel White
> >
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> >
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Luthman
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > version of it though?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeremy 
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's
> > some crazy stuff right there.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof 

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna

[SmarterBroadband]

The KPP website shows F/B of only 18db which is too low for frequency reuse??

However if you are using the 120 as a 120 with only 3 on a tower, freq reuse 
would not be an issue.

Adam

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ty Featherling
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 3:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna

 

Yes KPP. I haven't used the dual-slant version but I have dozens of their 
sectors up and they are great. Here is the one you are looking for:

 

http://www.kpperformance.ca/3ghz-120-degree-14-5-dbi-sector

 

-Ty




 

 

-Ty

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard good 
things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree off hand.

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector antenna 
?

 

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com  

pa...@pdmnet.net

 

 

 

[AFMUG] AWS going strong

[Paul McCall]

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/technology/amazon-aws-160-billion-dollars/index.html



Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement

Legally sufficient in the US means a warrant or subpoena. so nothing really
changes here.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Steve  wrote:

> Nope.. just a few pervs and a lot of bit torrent users. We forward the
> messages and shame them if we can.  But it isn't solid proof of anything.
> I can't terminate their service.  We have our own ARIN space so they
> automate a process to contact any ABUSE@ email associated with ip space.
>
> The organizations generally target newly released movies/shows.  It wasn't
> too bad initially but now its every single thing out there.
>
> Since the TPP was pretty much a done deal that is when these new legal
> firms jumped in and started sending them by the buttload.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:17:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> I would consult your lawyer, but I really don't see how an international
> treaty has any bearing on you unless/until US laws are changed as a result,
> which I doubt will happen or even needs to happen.
>
> Also, if you are getting hundreds of automated requests per week now,
> either
> you have a boatload of customers, or you need to ask what is different
> about
> your customer base.  I think that is a very unusual level of DMCA notices.
> Maybe you have a lot of hotspots or something?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:05 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> Yeah I'm going to let the lawyers sort that out.  That link was to New
> Zealand's copy.  Each country has a few changes to the agreement.  But for
> the most part it is harmonized to force ISP's to comply to any copyright
> claim.
>
> It means we in most cases won't be liable.  But we have to turn over
> records
> or inform customers.
>
> What does that mean?  It means that any tom dick and harry can start
> sending
> letters to us and we have to reply to them and forward to the customer the
> complaint.  I already received hundred of automated requests per week. Now
> I
> need to come up with an automated process to forward them.  I have to shame
> our customers and tell them to refrain from their actions.  So it is up to
> us now to be the police and to notify customers.
>
> Its just a boat load of new work we have to do just because someone is
> "claiming" something.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:55:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> That's not how I read the text you cited.
>
> It seems to say each country will have a legal process for copyright
> holders
> to obtain this information.  Currently the US has the DMCA plus copyright
> holders can obtain a court order.  I don't see where that would have to
> change.  I am not a lawyer, but even if I am interpreting this wrong, where
> is the enforceability?  Congress would have to feel compelled to pass more
> restrictive laws to abide by this vague language in a treaty they don't
> like
> anyway.  Unless/until US laws are changed, I don't see how this applies to
> us.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:42 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released
>
> We are now the internet police.
>
>
>
> http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php
>
> Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright
> holders:
>
> "Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that
> has made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain
> expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the
> provider’s
> possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that
> information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that
> copyright."
>
> ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against
> it:
>
> "  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service
> Providers to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on
> their networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright
> infringement"
>
>
> "An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material
> in
> good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for
> having done so, "
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Steve]

I hope not.  We also have a "Liquor Control Board"  that we need to go to buy 
wine or anything like that.  

They gotta "control" our booze.  Its literally a communistic cartel with price 
fixing.  Its actually disgusting.  

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:30:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

If Ontario legalizes marijuana, will you be required to buy it at “The Weed 
Store”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Store


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

The pot farms here in illinois are doing their hiring now, I like the 
professional names for the job titles that are pretty much just drug dealers. 
In true illinois fashion, we did blatant monopolies, one dope peddler per state 
police district. Totally legit process, no lined pockets in the decision, not 
in illinois.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.

  -Original Message- From: Daniel White
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM 

  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  I've certainly been asked to lol

  Thank you,

  Daniel White
  afmu...@gmail.com
  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?

-Original Message-
From: Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is out
there.

But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all of
the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado
got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison, 
what is
there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Feel the burn!
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> >
> >
> >
> > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> >
> >
> >
> > But then you should read this…
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> >
> >
> >
> > And for Lucy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> ur
> > s
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel White
> >
> > afmu...@gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> >
> > Skype: danieldwhite
> > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Luthman
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> >
> >
> > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > version of it though?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeremy 

Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dual slant antenna

[Daniel White]

Some things I quickly found online:



http://www.kathrein-scala.com/tech_bulletins/MEdowntilt.pdf



http://commscope.com/docs/electrical-mechanical_downtilt_effect_on_pattern_performance_wp-103755.pdf



A quick glance at the Commscope seems to talk about variable electric tilt vs 
fixed electrical tilt… but the concept is the same.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna



Maybe this is a good time to ask if there is a difference between “electrical” 
and “mechanical” downtilt?



If not, then it’s not a big deal, other than the confusion of telling the tower 
guys to uptilt the sector 2.5 degrees if you want 2.5 degrees downtilt.



But 120 degrees is a wide sector, and if “electrical” downtilt means like an 
upside down ice cream cone, rather than like cranking down an awning, that 
would be an important advantage.  Because mechanical downtilt on a wide sector 
has more effect in the middle than at the edges, plus it becomes very critical 
that the sector is mounted absolutely plumb.  Otherwise you can end up aiming 
at birds on one side and worms on the other.  Last time I checked, neither 
birds nor worms pay for Internet.





From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:29 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120degree dualslant antenna



That depends on a variety of factors right?



* What is the average distance of your clients to the AP?

* Is there elevation changes?

* What is the AGL of the antenna?

* What is the AGL of the CPE?

* How far away is the next sector/tower?



Effectively it’s a geometry question.  4 degree downtilt seems standard on 
carrier antennas though… but they also are trying to keep the cells smaller.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 7:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna



But 4 degrees downtilt on a sector with 7 degree vertical beamwidth seems 
excessive unless you’re doing really small cells.



From: Daniel White 

Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:22 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dualslant antenna



Alpha Wireless makes a great sector.  Alpha is the antenna OEM for Telrad and 
Airspan among others.



http://alphaantennas.com/products/single-band/3300-3800mhz-sector/aw3232/



If you need more information let me know offlist.



Daniel White

Regional Director – Carrier & Channel Sales

Member of the Board of Directors -   WISPA



Toll Free: (855) 471-7823

Mobile:(303) 746-3590

Skype:  danieldwhite

Social: LinkedIn:  
 Twitter

  www.crossoverdistribution.com



High Capacity, LTE, MIMO, Microwave Solutions, Engineering Services

In-Building Cellular / DAS Solutions, iBwave Design Services



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:55 PM
To: af  >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] recommendations for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant antenna



KP makes one - I haven't used them myself, but I've always only ever heard good 
things about their antennas. I can't think of any others in 120 degree off hand.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Paul McCall  > wrote:

Anybody have a recommendation for 3.65 Ghz 120 degree dual slant sector antenna 
?



Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800   office

772-473-0352   cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 







  _


 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com 





  _


 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com 





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

[AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Matt]

What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
system?

Re: [AFMUG] Checking Comcast Availability on a Per Address Basis?

[Christopher Gray]

I've found the Verizon qualification tool is very accurate in my area, I
was just hoping for an easy answer with Comcast too. I will have a look at
the shapefiles from the National Broadband Map as suggested since that
would be a valuable resource in the future. It will be good to get a sense
of how reliable the data is here.

I ended up contacting the cable committees for a couple of the towns, and
they actually have maps of the Comcast coverage since they are regularly
negotiation with Comcast trying to get them to expand. They are typically
paper maps, but they're happy to share, so I'll get the information I need
without having to drive too far up front.

Thanks - Chris



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Brian Webster 
wrote:

> If they do have a place you can qualify addresses they will cut you off
> after so many lookups from a particular IP address. We is to prevent web
> scraping efforts. Even with those tools they are not very accurate. I have
> run in to cases when their customer service say they do not service an area
> yet the local market guys know in fact they do. It’s another case of
> garbage in and garbage out from the database.
>
>
>
> If you have GIS tools you can download the shape files for your state at
> the national broadband map web site. It’s not perfect but it gives you
> details down to the census block level. Census blocks are bordered by roads
> typically and/or municipal boundaries. If you think it is overstated
> consider the borders of the block and see if they might be serving a road
> frontage on just one edge of the block. That method was not perfect but it
> got the US a data set they never had before. There was no what in hell you
> would ever get any telecom provider to give up their proprietary outside
> plant maps. Errors in stated coverage will likely be near the edge of the
> service area. When looking at the maps you could probably consider the
> coverage is really just inside the blocks on the border areas.
>
>
>
> Having built the national broadband map data for Illinois for all carriers
> and examined the data from just about every other state, it’s as good as
> you are ever going to get without actually driving and looking on the
> poles. If you need to know a specific neighborhood and don’t want to drive
> it, use Google Street view and Bing street view images. So long as it’s
> overhead plant you can see it on the poles.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Gray
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 1:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Checking Comcast Availability on a Per Address
> Basis?
>
>
>
> It is all on poles. Driving is what I do now, it would just be nice to
> import the data into my GIS system and have a quick visual. The next town
> I'm looking at has nearly 80 road miles.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Is the coax cable in the area on poles or buried?  If it’s on poles, a
> little driving might answer your question.
>
>
>
> *From:* Christopher Gray 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:16 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Checking Comcast Availability on a Per Address Basis?
>
>
>
> Does anyone know of a way to check Comcast service availability on a
> per-address basis? I'd like to be able to check a list of addresses (text
> file) and get information on the services available (text file with added
> information).
>
>
>
> I can do this with Verizon services, but I'm considering moving into some
> Comcast areas and would like to know the extent of their coverage.
>
>
>
> [When moving into an area, I like to check which competing services are
> available. I only have to to deal with Verizon and Comcast, and they have
> limited coverage in my area (typically only centers of towns, but not the
> outskirts).]
>
>
>
> Thanks - Chris
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Weirdest network issue [SOLVED]

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Solved!
This problem was resolved when we disabled in-band management on the AirFiber 
and added a secondary eth cable for management purposes.  Legacy Trango PtMP 
products have weird TCP stacks, in particular their 900MHz equipment, something 
goofy was happening with that combo.  I read that the AFs do some weirdness 
with multicast traffic when in-band management is enabled.

Scott

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 11:41
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weirdest network issue

This is going to be a setting in the ProCurves I would say.  The AF should 
essentially be acting as a transparent bridge.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
We replaced 3x Dragonwaves in LACP with a single AF 24HD, also updated switches 
on both sides with newer HP Procurves.

Before:
Me – (Procurve 1810) – (3X Dragonwave HC in LACP) - (3X Dragonwave in LACP) – 
(Procurve 2848) – (APs & BHs)

After:
Me – (Procurve 1920-24G) – (Ubiquiti AirFiber 24 HD) - (Ubiquiti AirFiber 24 
HD) – (Procurve 1920-48G) – (APs & BHs)

Everything works as expected with the exception of subscribers behind three 
different Trango M900APs.
The M900APs are manageable, but the connected clients are not.
The M900AP can always ping the clients but the Procurve 1920-48G switch and 
other devices further back cannot either.
The M900AP clients also are not able to establish PPPoE sessions.

Its gets weird-
If we reboot the M900AP all the clients become manageable and establish PPPoE 
connections but this only lasts unpredictably anywhere from 10 minutes to 3-ish 
hours.

Weirder-
Only this tower that received the Procurve 1920-48G has problems with the 
M900APs.  Other towers that are backhauled off this switch and also received 
new Procurve 1920-24Gs switches and have M900APs do NOT have this same problem.

I’m running out of ideas to try :/  Nothing else changed in the network.  
Basically it’s something with the AF or the Procurves, I think?

Incidentally, we put these 3 APs on the old Procurve 2848 and routed them back 
over the Dragonwave and it worked just fine for a few days.

Ideas?
`S

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[chuck]

I think Oregon is the same with booze.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

Sounds like Utah. 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Steve  wrote:

  I hope not.  We also have a "Liquor Control Board"  that we need to go to buy 
wine or anything like that.

  They gotta "control" our booze.  Its literally a communistic cartel with 
price fixing.  Its actually disgusting.

  - Original Message -
  From: "Ken Hohhof" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:30:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  If Ontario legalizes marijuana, will you be required to buy it at “The Weed 
Store”?
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Store


  From: That One Guy /sarcasm
  Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  The pot farms here in illinois are doing their hiring now, I like the 
professional names for the job titles that are pretty much just drug dealers. 
In true illinois fashion, we did blatant monopolies, one dope peddler per state 
police district. Totally legit process, no lined pockets in the decision, not 
in illinois.

  On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.

-Original Message- From: Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM

To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

I've certainly been asked to lol

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?

  -Original Message-
  From: Daniel White
  Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

  Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what is 
out
  there.

  But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great day
  when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with all 
of
  the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.

  Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I think 
Colorado
  got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in prison, 
what is
  there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just stupid.

  Thank you,

  Daniel White
  afmu...@gmail.com
  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

  > -Original Message-
  > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
  > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  >
  > Feel the burn!
  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: "Josh Luthman" 
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  >
  > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
  >
  >
  > Josh Luthman
  > Office: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  >
  > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
  > wrote:
  >
  > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
  > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > But then you should read this…
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > And for Lucy
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
  > ur
  > > s
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Thank you,
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Daniel White
  > >
  > > afmu...@gmail.com
  > >
  > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  > >
  > > Skype: danieldwhite
  > > Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
  > > 
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
  Luthman
  > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
  > > *To:* af@afmug.com
  > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
  > >
  > >
  > >

[AFMUG] PPPoE Reconnection issues on certain Cloud Core OS versions?

[Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc]

Hey guys (and gals),

 

I am going to toss this on the public realm.  It's bugging me and can be a
support problem at times depending on the OS version.

 

We run PPPoE for our customers with CCR 1306 routers. (latest OS right now)

I have two issues that come up depending on what OS we load or don't load.
I am 

 

1.   Certain OS versions will not let PPPoE accounts auto reconnect when
the router is rebooted (the customer MUST power cycle router to reconnect).
Some versions will simply start dropping customers.  Finally some versions
work great and the PPPoE sessions auto reconnect after a core router reboot.

 

2.   The other issue we see sometimes, depending on OS version, is it
'seems' like the PPPoE customers are being throttled.  The radio burst
settings look good and the AP load is kept down.  Yet on certain versions
the PPPoE assigned speeds can suffer.

 

 

Does anyone else ever see this crap depending on the OS version. or is it a
hardware .. Or firmware issue that causes this?  IDK.

 

 

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Cameron Crum]

Sounds like Utah.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Steve  wrote:

> I hope not.  We also have a "Liquor Control Board"  that we need to go to
> buy wine or anything like that.
>
> They gotta "control" our booze.  Its literally a communistic cartel with
> price fixing.  Its actually disgusting.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:30:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> If Ontario legalizes marijuana, will you be required to buy it at “The
> Weed Store”?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Store
>
>
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:22 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> The pot farms here in illinois are doing their hiring now, I like the
> professional names for the job titles that are pretty much just drug
> dealers. In true illinois fashion, we did blatant monopolies, one dope
> peddler per state police district. Totally legit process, no lined pockets
> in the decision, not in illinois.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>   Used to be it was smuggling Coors beer east of the Mississippi.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Daniel White
>   Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:55 AM
>
>   To: af@afmug.com
>   Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
>   I've certainly been asked to lol
>
>   Thank you,
>
>   Daniel White
>   afmu...@gmail.com
>   Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>   Skype: danieldwhite
>   Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> So when you do sales calls, to you bring presents from Colorado?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel White
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:27 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Hey when your raising teenagers... you gotta be up to speed with what
> is out
> there.
>
> But please come one and all to Colorado and smoke it up.  It’s a great
> day
> when the State has to put on the ballot a question on what to do with
> all of
> the extra tax revenue the State made off of it.
>
> Eventually all other states will figure it out.  Strangely enough I
> think Colorado
> got it right.  Crime is down, tax revenue is up, less people in
> prison, what is
> there not to love?  The  law they wanted to pass in Ohio was just
> stupid.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:01 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > Feel the burn!
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:00:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> >
> > We can't all be drug experts living in Colorado, Danny.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Daniel White 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh you guys kill me.  Google is your friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "*Molly*", short for 'molecule', was recognized as a slang term for
> > > crystalline or powder MDMA in the 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But then you should read this…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/health/9-things-molly-drug/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for Lucy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds#LSD_rumo
> > ur
> > > s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Daniel White
> > >
> > > afmu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> > >
> > > Skype: danieldwhite
> > > Social: LinkedIn :
> Twitter
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Luthman
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:44 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light"
> > > version of it though?
> > >
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Lewis Bergman]

I always enjoy talking to people that have figured out something I never
could.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015, 2:12 PM Glen Waldrop  wrote:

> I actually lost a customer over my free email.
>
> She put her email address all over the internet, got our domain spammed
> like mad to the point that my spam filter was completely overwhelmed (2000+
> spam per account every day, old server anyway), complained about the spam
> and couldn't be bothered to wait until I built the new email server.
>
> I still run the email server, I don't offer email addresses to my
> customers anymore. I support about 20ish, looks like only about 5 use it.
> Very few of them actually keep up with their passwords, and it seems they
> don't check it that often either. About every 3 to 6 months I'd get a call
> from most of them about some important message they have to get and they
> don't have their password. Their email account has 4000+ messages in it
> (when spam filter was actually working), they hadn't checked it since last
> time they got me to reset their password.
>
> Not fun.
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 9:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> For the typical WISP, I think it’s 3 facts:
>
> Fact 1:  10% of customers are morons
> Fact 2:  10% of customers will get an email account from you
> Fact 3:  they are the same 10%
>
> It sounds like Lewis had a lot of business customers with their own
> domains, that’s maybe a different and possibly more attractive scenario
> depending on how you structure it and, as he says, how much you charge.
>
> People getting their email credentials compromised and used by spammers
> are a constant problem.  And the people constantly getting a new iDevice
> and calling from the iStore for help.  If these people don’t even
> understand how email works, why do they want to get it on 5 different
> devices?  Can’t they just do like the kids and send text messages?
>
> It was easier when we mainly sold dialup and the job mainly consisted of
> sitting in the office talking to people on the phone.  But spending an hour
> on the phone with a clueless email customer is less fun when your network
> and techs are mostly out in the field.
>
> I compare it to the threads about WISP support, where some here say they
> don’t get any calls because they don’t have network problems.  OK, so last
> weekend I had a guy whose POE was plugged into a wall outlet controlled by
> a light switch.  Another said “Linksys” was unavailable.  One guy bought a
> new laptop and his WiFi password kept getting rejected – turns out he had
> answered “Dvorak right handed” to the keyboard question, because he was
> right handed.  None of this had anything to do with network problems!
>
> So email support is like that, all the morons sign up for email from you,
> and you have to support them.  Unless you structure things so you don’t
> support them.  Do they call GMail for stupid support issues?  The problem
> might be you probably sell them Internet, so it is hard to enforce a
> self-serve support policy, they know where you live and will bug you until
> you help them.
>
> Maybe one approach is to outsource all email customer support, to make the
> cost per customer more visible.  Then compare to the revenue per customer.
> Since unlike the big guys, we aren’t making money from data mining.
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 8:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
>
> How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty
> cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then
> I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went
> to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the
> support that was the big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently
> maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech
> support time on it. More than anything else by far. Kind of a hidden
> expense but definitely still there. We had, I think, 8000 users on the
> system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred domains.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the
>> number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does
>> now, other than some disks  which aren't expensive.
>>
>> I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service
>> provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not
>> really a major expense.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Philip Rankin]

If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to set them up with a fully
operational Platypus system.  So versatile and easy to use.  PM mw.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Brett A Mansfield <
li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:

> I suspect it's because there is yet to be a good solution. Their either
> way over priced like visp and powercode, or you need to be or hire an
> expert with Linux and/or security for billmax and platypus.
>
> I'd like to find something low cost and turnkey that is simple and easy to
> use for both my techs and customers...and that works and is out of beta.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
>
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 6:18 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> every 2 weeks
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Didn't we just have this thread?
>>
>> Powercode
>> Wispmon
>> Visp
>> Billmax
>>
>> Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt"  wrote:
>>
>>> What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
>>> house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
>>> billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
>>> bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
>>> system?
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>


-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

[AFMUG] B5 vs AF5X

[Stefan Englhardt]

Anyone who have them both running did an unbiased comparison?

We've several B5 links running and are quite happy with them.

Good 11ac radios in a very neat package.



The AF5x on the other side is a custom designed radio which seems to

squeeze more mbits out of smaller channels. In a 40MHz Channel I see

an aggregated thruput of 320 Mbit/s with the B5 with 4ms framesize at

MCS9 (256QAM).

Looking at the AF5X (inofficial) link table should do 390 Mbit/s aggregated

with 2ms framesize. So they promise to do higher bandwidth with lower

latency in a 40MHz Channel (at smaller channels the difference is higher

as .ac do only MCS8).



Is the AF5X the better radio with limited spectrum while the B5 can do more

with enough spectrum available?



I've sites where I ran out of spectrum (ETSI) so I plan to put AF5X there.

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Josh Luthman]

Didn't we just have this thread?

Powercode
Wispmon
Visp
Billmax

Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt"  wrote:

> What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
> house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
> billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
> bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
> system?
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Brett A Mansfield]

I suspect it's because there is yet to be a good solution. Their either way 
over priced like visp and powercode, or you need to be or hire an expert with 
Linux and/or security for billmax and platypus.

I'd like to find something low cost and turnkey that is simple and easy to use 
for both my techs and customers...and that works and is out of beta.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Nov 5, 2015, at 6:18 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm  
> wrote:
> 
> every 2 weeks
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> Didn't we just have this thread?
>> 
>> Powercode
>> Wispmon
>> Visp
>> Billmax
>> 
>> Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>> On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt"  wrote:
>>> What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
>>> house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
>>> billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
>>> bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
>>> system?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Matt]

> I've run Surgemail and Zimbra without any issues for years. Surgemail is 
> cheap fast and extremely configurable. It has a mirror license you can get so 
> you run servers flawlessly. I nan get it installed and running in literally 3 
> minutes.  It pretty much configures itself. It isn't the best looking webmail 
> but in the back end it is the most granular and fast mail server I've ever 
> seen.


So how do you like Surgemail?  Does it easily allowed SSL certificates
to be used for Webmail, IMAP, SMTP and POP3?  How is the webmail?  How
good does antispam and antivirus work?





> Zimbra well its free and a somewhat decent exchange alternative.  Runs like a 
> pig compared to Surgemail but it is solid.
>
> Roundcube I've run it only in test environments and I'm actually looking at 
> it again for domain hosting.  So far no issues and it looks nice.  I'll have 
> to see once you get a couple hundred people running on it how well it really 
> works.
>
> It really isn't that much work to manage mail servers at all.  Once they are 
> set up if you keep them up to date they really can be left alone.  They alert 
> you to any problems ahead of time.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:18:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
> There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their own 
> e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail to be 
> that difficult to manage.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>
>
> I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our 
> customer base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an email 
> address.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail to 
> individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)?
>
> Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot.
>
> I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing TLSv1.2 
> on smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains on the 
> dovecot server.
>
> Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using roundcube 
> in a production environment.

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[David Milholen]

Freeside :)


On 11/5/2015 6:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Didn't we just have this thread?

Powercode
Wispmon
Visp
Billmax

Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt" > wrote:


What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
system?



--

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Paul Stewart]

Roundcube works well (the original question) ... make sure you stay updated on 
security etc

Definitely much prefer running email in-house ... granted the size of the 
operation can quickly determine if you want to have resources assigned to 
running any type of servers in-house.

Really like Surgemail - it's a great system for small email platforms (under 
50k mailboxes). At former $$$job we ran several different Surgemail systems for 
customers with great success.  Never tried their antispam/antivirus - the 
person making that decision at the time went outsourced.  I have seen better 
looking webmail on Surgemail but their system is very functional and rather 
simple which is more important in my opinion.

-p

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

I've run Surgemail and Zimbra without any issues for years. Surgemail is cheap 
fast and extremely configurable. It has a mirror license you can get so you run 
servers flawlessly. I nan get it installed and running in literally 3 minutes.  
It pretty much configures itself. It isn't the best looking webmail but in the 
back end it is the most granular and fast mail server I've ever seen.  

Zimbra well its free and a somewhat decent exchange alternative.  Runs like a 
pig compared to Surgemail but it is solid.  

Roundcube I've run it only in test environments and I'm actually looking at it 
again for domain hosting.  So far no issues and it looks nice.  I'll have to 
see once you get a couple hundred people running on it how well it really 
works.  

It really isn't that much work to manage mail servers at all.  Once they are 
set up if you keep them up to date they really can be left alone.  They alert 
you to any problems ahead of time.  

- Original Message -
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:18:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their own 
e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail to be 
that difficult to manage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Chuck Hogg"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our customer 
base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an email address. 







Regards, 
Chuck 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail to 
individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)? 

Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot. 

I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing TLSv1.2 on 
smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains on the dovecot 
server. 

Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using roundcube 
in a production environment.

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Rory Conaway]

Wispmon?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

I suspect it's because there is yet to be a good solution. Their either way 
over priced like visp and powercode, or you need to be or hire an expert with 
Linux and/or security for billmax and platypus.

I'd like to find something low cost and turnkey that is simple and easy to use 
for both my techs and customers...and that works and is out of beta.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

On Nov 5, 2015, at 6:18 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:
every 2 weeks

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

Didn't we just have this thread?

Powercode
Wispmon
Visp
Billmax

Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt" 
> wrote:
What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
system?



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Eric Kuhnke]

I could do a few hundred users on an Intel Atom with a decent SSD...
Seriously...

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is
> a little ridiculous for a few hundred users.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I have a few hundred mailboxes.
>>
>> I don't really have much for user support issues. I've had to revoke
>> accounts a couple times from users that kept handing out their password
>> like it was candy at a parade. No real forgotten password problems. Setup
>> just works. Hack attempts are shut down before they even try valid
>> credentials.
>>
>> I'm running a seven server Zimbra cluster. Whenever I can get a little
>> bit of time, it'll be geo and network diverse (separate cluster for all but
>> mailboxes elsewhere with the mailboxes coming in about a year). It will be
>> up to about 14 servers by then.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:29:00 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>
>> How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty
>> cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then
>> I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went
>> to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the
>> support that was the big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently
>> maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech
>> support time on it. More than anything else by far. Kind of a hidden
>> expense but definitely still there. We had, I think, 8000 users on the
>> system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred domains.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the
>>> number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does
>>> now, other than some disks  which aren't expensive.
>>>
>>> I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service
>>> provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not
>>> really a major expense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:08:29 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube
>>>
>>> For me it wasn't about difficulty it was about expense. Email, at least
>>> how we did it, was a cost center not a profit center. I kept it until I
>>> sold and wish I would have ditched it much sooner. It was by far the
>>> biggest tech support PITA.
>>>
>>> I did learn afterward that the longer someone has an email address the
>>> more they are willing to pay to keep it. I have been raising he fee we
>>> charge to use those old emails. I am now at $250 a year for a single email
>>> and I have people begging me not to cut it off. I am still going to, but I
>>> think it is interesting since I used to give it away.
>>>
>>> I guess what I am saying is that if you do not charge a decent amount
>>> for it, why do it? The there is the whole minimum volume to be profitable
>>> thing that comes into play. I just would not keep doing something that
>>> doesn't make money. If it does, more power to you.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:18 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
 There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form
 their own e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found
 e-mail to be that difficult to manage.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] AWS going strong

[Josh Luthman]

I thought there was some sort of amazon mailing list software?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Nov 5, 2015 11:24 PM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:

> Ha!  I know you are joking, but of course mail or anything else is an app
> the customer installs on “their server”.  Nothing goes on “in the middle”
> on the receive end of things.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2015 2:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AWS going strong
>
>
>
> Maybe spend some of that money preventing spam messages on mailing lists?
> =)
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/technology/amazon-aws-160-billion-dollars/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, Pres.
>
> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 office
>
> 772-473-0352 cell
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

every 2 weeks

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Didn't we just have this thread?
>
> Powercode
> Wispmon
> Visp
> Billmax
>
> Man I'm drawing a blank sorry guys
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Nov 5, 2015 7:24 PM, "Matt"  wrote:
>
>> What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
>> house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
>> billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
>> bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
>> system?
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] What's WinnAIR?

[Chuck Hogg]

https://www.winncom.com/es/seminars/current/468

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

> Some product I have never heard of.. Some kind of wireless NMS. Anyone
> seen it?
>
> [image: Winnair]
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Billing and Ticketing System

[Eric Kuhnke]

Ticketing: Request Tracker. It is more powerful than you could possibly
ever need.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Matt  wrote:

> What is everyone using for billing and ticketing?  We are using in
> house built database/ticketing and standard accounting package for
> billing.  Works ok but would like something that saves time by
> bringing everything together.  What are typical per user costs for a
> system?
>

Re: [AFMUG] AWS going strong

[Paul McCall]

Ha!  I know you are joking, but of course mail or anything else is an app the 
customer installs on “their server”.  Nothing goes on “in the middle” on the 
receive end of things.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 2:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AWS going strong

Maybe spend some of that money preventing spam messages on mailing lists? =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/technology/amazon-aws-160-billion-dollars/index.html



Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] B5 vs AF5X

[Eric Kuhnke]

You're looking at the difference in code rates between 256QAM 3/4 code rate
(MCS8) and 256QAM 5/6 code rate (MCS9)?  All things being equal in the same
size TDD 40 MHz channel, of course the MCS9 radio will have a greater
bps/Hz.

Talking about the bps/Hz for a single stream, the specs for 802.11ac say
that an MCS8 channel 40 MHz wide will be 162 to 180 Mbps, while a MCS9
channel 40 MHz wide will be 180 to 200 Mbps.

I am not sure the two can be compared directly side by side thanks to the
B5's split frequency modes of operation. They can be better compared head
to head if you're using a single fixed TDD frequency (like, 5760 center
channel).



On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

> Anyone who have them both running did an unbiased comparison?
>
> We’ve several B5 links running and are quite happy with them.
>
> Good 11ac radios in a very neat package.
>
>
>
> The AF5x on the other side is a custom designed radio which seems to
>
> squeeze more mbits out of smaller channels. In a 40MHz Channel I see
>
> an aggregated thruput of 320 Mbit/s with the B5 with 4ms framesize at
>
> MCS9 (256QAM).
>
> Looking at the AF5X (inofficial) link table should do 390 Mbit/s aggregated
>
> with 2ms framesize. So they promise to do higher bandwidth with lower
>
> latency in a 40MHz Channel (at smaller channels the difference is higher
>
> as .ac do only MCS8).
>
>
>
> Is the AF5X the better radio with limited spectrum while the B5 can do more
>
> with enough spectrum available?
>
>
>
> I’ve sites where I ran out of spectrum (ETSI) so I plan to put AF5X there.
>

Re: [AFMUG] B5 vs AF5X

[Stefan Englhardt]

>You're looking at the difference in code rates between 256QAM 3/4 code rate 
>(MCS8) and 256QAM 5/6 code rate (MCS9)?  All >things being equal in the same 
>size TDD 40 MHz channel, of course the MCS9 radio will have a greater bps/Hz.



No. The AF5X claims to give higher performance with (8x) 256QAM compared to 
MCS9 (256QAM 5/6) of an .ac radio. AF5X is no .ac radio so they seem to have a 
different amount of subcarriers, less overhead or other modulation scheme?



http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF5X-Link-Calculator-Updated-Download/m-p/1255928#M20955



>Talking about the bps/Hz for a single stream, the specs for 802.11ac say that 
>an MCS8 channel 40 MHz wide will be 162 to 180 Mbps, while a MCS9 channel 40 
>MHz wide will be 180 to 200 Mbps.



>I am not sure the two can be compared directly side by side thanks to the B5's 
>split frequency modes of operation. They can be >better compared head to head 
>if you're using a single fixed TDD frequency (like, 5760 center channel).

Yes. I took 40MHz to be fair as 802.11ac does MCS9 only with channels greater 
equal 40MHz. And I am talking real IP capacity not physical.





On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Stefan Englhardt  > wrote:

Anyone who have them both running did an unbiased comparison?

We’ve several B5 links running and are quite happy with them.

Good 11ac radios in a very neat package.



The AF5x on the other side is a custom designed radio which seems to

squeeze more mbits out of smaller channels. In a 40MHz Channel I see

an aggregated thruput of 320 Mbit/s with the B5 with 4ms framesize at

MCS9 (256QAM).

Looking at the AF5X (inofficial) link table should do 390 Mbit/s aggregated

with 2ms framesize. So they promise to do higher bandwidth with lower

latency in a 40MHz Channel (at smaller channels the difference is higher

as .ac do only MCS8).



Is the AF5X the better radio with limited spectrum while the B5 can do more

with enough spectrum available?



I’ve sites where I ran out of spectrum (ETSI) so I plan to put AF5X there.

Re: [AFMUG] TTL

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah, if it was an OSPF thing I’d expect the TTL to vary by small amounts as 
the differing paths had different hops that effected the TTL.  Anyhow, tracked 
this down to a duplicate IP :/  ARP tables in the switches only reflected one 
entry for the IP but was able to find a log of ARP conflicts elsewhere on the 
same switch.  Thx.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 23:11
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TTL

I see this going to 192.168.88.1 since I have ospf doing connected when I have 
my secondary card configured to that subnet for setting up a router

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
I could have this wrong- but doesn’t the device relying to the ping send back 
it’s default TTL which varies from OS/mfg.  So if this device has a default TTL 
of 255 and there are no hops between the pinging device and the responding 
device (otherwise TTL would be less than 255) then why the huge jump down to 64 
which is coincidentally another common default TTL value?  If there was some 
route flapping / loop or whatever why exactly 191 extra hops?

I thought maybe there was an IP conflict and I was getting replies from the 
different devices, but ARP tables are only showing one device on that IP.  Or 
of course I could be completely misunderstanding the whole TTL thing.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 22:07
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TTL

flapping link/router somewhere down the line

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
Why would the TTL change during a ping sequence?

Reply from 10.10.100.5: bytes=56 Sequence=1 ttl=64 
time=5 ms
Reply from 10.10.100.5: bytes=56 Sequence=2 ttl=255 
time=11 ms
Reply from 10.10.100.5: bytes=56 Sequence=3 ttl=64 
time=3 ms
Reply from 10.10.100.5: bytes=56 Sequence=4 ttl=64 
time=2 ms
Reply from 10.10.100.5: bytes=56 Sequence=5 ttl=64 
time=2 ms





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Here we go - TPP Full Text Released

[Steve]

We are now the internet police.  


http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/01-Treaties-for-which-NZ-is-Depositary/0-Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Text.php

Internet service providers must give your name if requested by copyright 
holders:

"Each Party shall provide procedures... that enable a copyright owner that has 
made a legally sufficient claim of copyright infringement to obtain 
expeditiously from an Internet Service Provider information in the provider’s 
possession identifying the alleged infringer, in cases in which that 
information is sought for the purpose of protecting or enforcing that 
copyright."

ISPs must move quickly to remove material with a copyright claim against it:

"  these conditions shall include a requirement for Internet Service Providers 
to expeditiously remove or disable access to material residing on their 
networks or systems upon obtaining actual knowledge of the copyright 
infringement"


"An Internet Service Provider that removes or disables access to material in 
good faith under subparagraph (a) shall be exempt from any liability for having 
done so, "

Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist

[Josh Luthman]

Molly is a drug.  It is not ecstasy.  I believe it's a "light" version of
it though?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> OK, that makes sense.  I understand Lucy but why is Molly Ecstacy?
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 9:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>
> Molly and Lucy?  Who sells Ecstasy and LSD on Craigslist???  That's some
> crazy stuff right there.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> My advice to Chuck would be to separate the two things.  Look for a house
>> cleaner, and look for a boarder.
>>
>> At least around here, lots of moms clean houses part time to make some
>> extra money.  It’s a job you can do during the day while the kids are in
>> school, or on weekends as a second job.  I don’t think you’ll have a hard
>> time finding someone.  Then if you really want to take in a boarder, find a
>> boarder who pays rent.  If you were someplace like France, I’d say look for
>> a nice young Mormon on a mission.  But seriously, would the local church
>> possibly know someone looking to clean houses part time or someone looking
>> for room?
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:57 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Craigslist
>>
>>
>> Check out the best of category. It can be hilarious.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, 7:50 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Craigslist is a whole other world of debauchery and outright criminality
>>> mixed with puppy dogs for sale.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 Got an account and am perusing the content.  I see a listing that says
 “Molly and Lucy are in town. “  I have to assume this is a drug reference?

 Man there is some weird crap there.  Have never really looked into it
 before.  Always assumed it was folks selling surplus lawnmowers.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

[Steve]

I've run Surgemail and Zimbra without any issues for years. Surgemail is cheap 
fast and extremely configurable. It has a mirror license you can get so you run 
servers flawlessly. I nan get it installed and running in literally 3 minutes.  
It pretty much configures itself. It isn't the best looking webmail but in the 
back end it is the most granular and fast mail server I've ever seen.  

Zimbra well its free and a somewhat decent exchange alternative.  Runs like a 
pig compared to Surgemail but it is solid.  

Roundcube I've run it only in test environments and I'm actually looking at it 
again for domain hosting.  So far no issues and it looks nice.  I'll have to 
see once you get a couple hundred people running on it how well it really 
works.  

It really isn't that much work to manage mail servers at all.  Once they are 
set up if you keep them up to date they really can be left alone.  They alert 
you to any problems ahead of time.  

- Original Message -
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:18:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube

There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form their own 
e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found e-mail to be 
that difficult to manage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Chuck Hogg"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube 


I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our customer 
base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an email address. 







Regards, 
Chuck 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide webmail to 
individual end users (not a single domain corporate environment)? 

Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot. 

I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing TLSv1.2 on 
smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test domains on the dovecot 
server. 

Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using roundcube 
in a production environment.