Re: [AFMUG] List

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Awaiting the arrival of our new home.

Thanks for the help for the past 5 years Pauldont go anywhere:)

Glad you are smiling a little more of these days Chuck :)

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] List
Date: Wed, Jun 6, 2018 10:44 PM

There are more pros:Superman
A lot of fun
A bunch of those cons are also pros.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018, Chuck McCown  wrote:




To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons

Pros

Buzz

 

Cons

Dick stops working, even the next day

Ugly women look good to you

You hit on ugly women

You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license

Hangovers

Puke mouth

Kissing a puke mouth

Beer goggles

Beer gut

Puking

Cleaning up Puke

Screwing your buddies wife

Waking up in jail for no apparent reason

Waking up in your car not knowing where you are

Waking up not knowing where you are

Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit 
card

Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.

Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough 
to be your mother.

Puking in public venues before thousands of people

Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you can 
see is white.  

Did I mention that your dick stops working...

 

So I have been told...

 



 


From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List


 


i havent been drinking, so its ok 
thats a lie though

i have been drinking

and its not ok

 


 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie 
 
wrote:

Good 
to hear, I'm having withdrawals. 



On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:





I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on 
the AWS is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put 
it off long enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move 
to mailmanhost.com

Will probably take a few days.  



 


From: Jason 
McKemie 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] List


 


Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on 
anymore.  Unless everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a 
computer like 
me.





 

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Jason McKemie]

There are more pros:
Superman
A lot of fun
A bunch of those cons are also pros.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons
> Pros
> Buzz
>
> Cons
> Dick stops working, even the next day
> Ugly women look good to you
> You hit on ugly women
> You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license
> Hangovers
> Puke mouth
> Kissing a puke mouth
> Beer goggles
> Beer gut
> Puking
> Cleaning up Puke
> Screwing your buddies wife
> Waking up in jail for no apparent reason
> Waking up in your car not knowing where you are
> Waking up not knowing where you are
> Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit card
> Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.
> Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough
> to be your mother.
> Puking in public venues before thousands of people
> Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you can
> see is white.
> Did I mention that your dick stops working...
>
> So I have been told...
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List
>
> i havent been drinking, so its ok
> thats a lie though
> i have been drinking
> and its not ok
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:
>>
>>> I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS
>>> is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long
>>> enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
>>> mailmanhost.com
>>> Will probably take a few days.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List
>>>
>>> Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
>>> everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Jaime Solorza]

Dobrynochi comrades

Jaime Solorza

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 8:47 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Where'd you get my resume? You been trolling my linkdn?
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 8:22 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons
>> Pros
>> Buzz
>>
>> Cons
>> Dick stops working, even the next day
>> Ugly women look good to you
>> You hit on ugly women
>> You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license
>> Hangovers
>> Puke mouth
>> Kissing a puke mouth
>> Beer goggles
>> Beer gut
>> Puking
>> Cleaning up Puke
>> Screwing your buddies wife
>> Waking up in jail for no apparent reason
>> Waking up in your car not knowing where you are
>> Waking up not knowing where you are
>> Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit card
>> Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.
>> Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough
>> to be your mother.
>> Puking in public venues before thousands of people
>> Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you
>> can see is white.
>> Did I mention that your dick stops working...
>>
>> So I have been told...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List
>>
>> i havent been drinking, so its ok
>> thats a lie though
>> i have been drinking
>> and its not ok
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:
>>>
 I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the
 AWS is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off
 long enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
 mailmanhost.com
 Will probably take a few days.

 *From:* Jason McKemie
 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] List

 Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
 everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Steve Jones]

Where'd you get my resume? You been trolling my linkdn?

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 8:22 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons
> Pros
> Buzz
>
> Cons
> Dick stops working, even the next day
> Ugly women look good to you
> You hit on ugly women
> You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license
> Hangovers
> Puke mouth
> Kissing a puke mouth
> Beer goggles
> Beer gut
> Puking
> Cleaning up Puke
> Screwing your buddies wife
> Waking up in jail for no apparent reason
> Waking up in your car not knowing where you are
> Waking up not knowing where you are
> Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit card
> Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.
> Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough
> to be your mother.
> Puking in public venues before thousands of people
> Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you can
> see is white.
> Did I mention that your dick stops working...
>
> So I have been told...
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List
>
> i havent been drinking, so its ok
> thats a lie though
> i have been drinking
> and its not ok
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:
>>
>>> I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS
>>> is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long
>>> enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
>>> mailmanhost.com
>>> Will probably take a few days.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List
>>>
>>> Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
>>> everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Chuck McCown]

To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons
Pros
Buzz

Cons
Dick stops working, even the next day
Ugly women look good to you
You hit on ugly women
You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license
Hangovers
Puke mouth
Kissing a puke mouth
Beer goggles
Beer gut
Puking
Cleaning up Puke
Screwing your buddies wife
Waking up in jail for no apparent reason
Waking up in your car not knowing where you are
Waking up not knowing where you are
Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit card
Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.
Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough to be 
your mother.
Puking in public venues before thousands of people
Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you can see 
is white.  
Did I mention that your dick stops working...

So I have been told...


From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List

i havent been drinking, so its ok 
thats a lie though
i have been drinking
and its not ok


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals. 


  On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:

I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS is 
getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long enough. 
 Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to mailmanhost.com
Will probably take a few days.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List

Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless 
everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

In reading this citation there are two phrases which I think get to the
meat of what the person writing the citation intended:

Item 1:
"The employer did not *require* a competent person to inspect."
Item 2:
"...the employer did not *ensure* complete personal fall arrest systems
were properly used".

I've bolded what I consider the two most relevant words.   The question I'd
be asking is what policies were actually in place at the time of the
accident, and what was the ramifications to the employee if they didn't
follow them.Evidently providing safety gear isn't enough, the employer
is responsible to make sure that employees actually use them.   If you had
policies in place that required the use of the gear, and took affirmative
action when an employee was caught violating the policies, and have now
re-verified that the gear met the requirements, I'd go back to OSHA and ask
them, what you could have done differently considering you've done
everything correctly.

Go into it with the mindset that if you screwed up you're going to have to
pay these fines (or at least what you can negotiate them down to), and that
you really want to learn what you did to screw up.   If the answer is that
you did everything right, it will be hard for them to continue with the
fines.   If they find you did something wrong then talk to them about how
to fix it.   I've heard story after story like this (fortunately never had
to deal with it myself), and it seems that a learning/compliant attitude
goes a long way toward them being willing to drop or decrease the fines.
 I'm not saying to not correct incorrect information (such as the rohn 25
load rating), but instead to take what they say and try to understand
whether or not you needed to make a correction.

Be mindful that the people who work for OSHA have the job to make the
workplace safer, and I'm sure that after a workplace death they feel like
there should be something that could have been done differently.  Hopefully
they'll come to the realization that you were doing everything you should
have been doing, and that you've also learned a couple things which you can
do above and beyond that, and as a result, the fine is dropped or reduced
significantly.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a
> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
> about an hour later at the hospital.
>
> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>
>
>
>
> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>
> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
> to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation,
> were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in
> determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
>
> If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear,
> told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it,
> am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his
> harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a
> lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
>
> Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?
> Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *David Sovereen*
>
> Mercury Network Corporation
> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
>
> Telephone * |  *Internet*  |  *Security Alarm Monitoring
>
> david.sover...@mercury.net
> www.mercury.net
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Yeah, just like school "cooperate and graduate"  never paid to correct the 
error of the teacher.


-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 4:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

On 6/6/18 9:10 AM, David Sovereen wrote:
I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing 
oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think 
they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.




So now that Rohn has proven this is a totally false statement, have you
passed that along to OSHA or has Rohn indicated they would be interested
in talking to OSHA?

I don't think the OSHA guys are going to like being told they are wrong.

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Robert Andrews]

I just looked it up on Wikipedia, right in the definition of "right" 
there is a cross reference to OSHA


On 06/06/2018 03:58 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/6/18 9:10 AM, David Sovereen wrote:
I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday. 
 He tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to 
support 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for 
securing oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a 
lift.  I think they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.




So now that Rohn has proven this is a totally false statement, have you 
passed that along to OSHA or has Rohn indicated they would be interested 
in talking to OSHA?


I don't think the OSHA guys are going to like being told they are wrong.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Seth Mattinen]

On 6/6/18 9:10 AM, David Sovereen wrote:
I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to 
support 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for 
securing oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a 
lift.  I think they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.




So now that Rohn has proven this is a totally false statement, have you 
passed that along to OSHA or has Rohn indicated they would be interested 
in talking to OSHA?


I don't think the OSHA guys are going to like being told they are wrong.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Carl Peterson]

I read "Do I need to move my cot " as Do I need to move my car...  City
life.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:03 PM, Dave  wrote:

> Wait something is changing...
>  Do I need to move my cot :)
>
>
>
> On 06/06/2018 04:40 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> i havent been drinking, so its ok
> thats a lie though
> i have been drinking
> and its not ok
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:
>>
>>> I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS
>>> is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long
>>> enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
>>> mailmanhost.com
>>> Will probably take a few days.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List
>>>
>>> Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
>>> everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>



-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Rory Conaway]

Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how much 
spectrum you want to use.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Well, that explains everything.

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
Wow, what size dishes?

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in both 
directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.

On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, but 
that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.

If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). If 
you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps each 
way.
Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I probably 
could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a little 
higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher modulations 
at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it probably 
could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add some 20% 
capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go up to 
100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).


Error! Filename not specified.




On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Dave]

Wait something is changing...
 Do I need to move my cot :)


On 06/06/2018 04:40 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

i havent been drinking, so its ok
thats a lie though
i have been drinking
and its not ok


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie 
> wrote:


Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.


On Wednesday, June 6, 2018, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running
on the AWS is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So,
I have put it off long enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy
and the list will move to mailmanhost.com 
Will probably take a few days.
*From:* Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] List
Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on
anymore.  Unless everyone is just outside as opposed to in
front of a computer like me.




--

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Steve Jones]

i havent been drinking, so its ok
thats a lie though
i have been drinking
and its not ok


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:
>
>> I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS
>> is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long
>> enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
>> mailmanhost.com
>> Will probably take a few days.
>>
>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List
>>
>> Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
>> everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[Steve Jones]

is it the russians we are moving it to? Theyre pretty good at this
interwebs stuff

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> I think this is a good move.
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 2:08 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Problems.  It is on AWS.  Who knows.
>>
>> Worked great for almost 5 years.
>>
>> But since it is just maintenance by a committee of volunteers, I figured
>> it best to just move it over to folks that specialize in running lists for
>> others.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:04 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list
>>
>> Amazon problems?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.
>>> -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, June
>>> 6, 2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this
>>> list
>>> Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet
>>> Services 417.851.1107
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list
>>>
>>> Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> They need a sub domain.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Well, that explains everything.

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

  Wow, what size dishes?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in both 
directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 

  On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

  Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up 
down ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

  If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

  Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

  An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I 
haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably 
use AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only 
difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep 
the bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Chris Fabien]

3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

> Wow, what size dishes?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>
> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>
> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
> pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
> but I assume you know where to get those...
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>
>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
>> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
>> 140Mbps each way.
>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
>> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
>> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
>> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>>
>> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
>> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* af
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
 or
 AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

 ?

 Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
 bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Steve D]

I just realized that last message was more a rambling trip through
nostalgia versus anything useful for the OP or others looking at this
software.

GIS software in general is probably very well suited to fiber mapping and
most of it very database driven.  Oil, Forestry, Mining all make use of
this sort of software big time.  There probably exist "purpose" built tools
as others have mentioned on here, but a more "general" piece of GIS
software like this has the benefit of being able to handle whatever you
want to throw at it, at the expense of making it a bit more complicated to
get setup.

Long term though, you'll have something that can scale.  If down the road,
for whatever reason, you need to work with another company or government,
being able to be "here, this is what we have" in a shapefile (or whatever
format) they'll really appreciate it.  Likewise, you might get data from
another entity and be able to easily merge it in with your own.

Anyway, my two cents.

Cheers,

-Steve D

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 2:05 PM Steve D  wrote:

> You know I have to say, I have not given QGIS a fair shake in over 10
> years.  I gave it a download last night and it's not the weak, completely
> unfinished, seemingly dead piece of open source software I played with back
> in 2005/2006.  Around that time, as part of a part-time job/college
> project/whatever thing, I was working on a Shapefile to PostGIS tool and
> relied on a lot of the work QGIS had already done, but only because we had
> no desire to work with QGIS itself (and at that time, ESRI made no bones
> about having nothing to do with OSS software - a very Microsoft attitude).
> When I finished college and moved on to new full time work at a couple of
> places, I never gave it a close look again.  First working with ARCGIS
> (spoiled me) then onto other programs, such as Pathloss, GlobalMapper, and
> so forth.  So when I say QGIS, at a glance, looks pretty damn good, I mean
> it.  It certainly has the gears in my head turning about what I can do with
> it next.
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:32 AM Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> Sterling,
>>
>> The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and
>> you can spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data
>> and have the mapping interface directly to the database and without too
>> much other work the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is
>> accessible on other devices. I would be willing to help you set something
>> like this up. It’s not too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth
>> file and/or spreadsheet established for their existing information. That
>> can be imported and used to start the whole system. Software cost is nil,
>> time is your other investment and paying me if you want some help in that
>> regard. If you already have someone who is good with relational databases
>> then your learning curve is not as steep.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and
>> used capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each
>> section by geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power
>> readings on top of that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and
>> capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.
>>
>>
>>
>> Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details
>> between point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review
>> things at any level.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>>
>>
>>
>> You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End
>> User Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Paul Stewart
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>>
>>
>>
>> We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com
>>
>>
>>
>> It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many
>> locations etc but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re
>> looking to utilize it for fiber builds and 

Re: [AFMUG] 12V 8-10A wall mount battery backup

[Harold Bledsoe]

Another option might be to get a (cheap) solar charge controller.  Instead
of a solar panel input, just put a DC power supply on it and add a battery?

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:03 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Thanks Mark,
>
> It looks like all the 12V ones there are 2-3A
>
> Alpha makes MPS12-100-8H and MPS12-100-GD which are 7.5A.  I've asked P
> for quotes...
>
> The Mean well AD-155A might work but then I would need to build it into an
> enclosure with a battery and I'm trying for easy.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>>
>> What about the cyberpower FTTX battery backup units?
>> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/fttx/
>>
>> We've also looked into these before
>> https://www.powertecsolutions.net/solutions/#psi-micro-ups-series
>>
>>
>> I saw a BBU built into a wall wart in a security magazine a while back.
>> Thinking that may be too low on the amps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>> 
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Wednesday, June 6, 2018, 12:19:32 PM, you wrote: *
>>
>> I'm looking for a 12V 8-10A power supply and battery backup for Calix
>> E3s.  Something that I could just mount to the telco board in a MDU.
>> Doesn't need a whole lot of battery but an hour or so would be nice.
>> Anyone have anything that they like?
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> 
>
> 
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> 
>
> (410) 637-3707
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Wow, what size dishes?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in both 
directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 

On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

  Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

  The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...


  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.

On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost,
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
but I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down
> ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>
> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
> 140Mbps each way.
> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>
> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>> or
>>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Steve D]

You know I have to say, I have not given QGIS a fair shake in over 10
years.  I gave it a download last night and it's not the weak, completely
unfinished, seemingly dead piece of open source software I played with back
in 2005/2006.  Around that time, as part of a part-time job/college
project/whatever thing, I was working on a Shapefile to PostGIS tool and
relied on a lot of the work QGIS had already done, but only because we had
no desire to work with QGIS itself (and at that time, ESRI made no bones
about having nothing to do with OSS software - a very Microsoft attitude).
When I finished college and moved on to new full time work at a couple of
places, I never gave it a close look again.  First working with ARCGIS
(spoiled me) then onto other programs, such as Pathloss, GlobalMapper, and
so forth.  So when I say QGIS, at a glance, looks pretty damn good, I mean
it.  It certainly has the gears in my head turning about what I can do with
it next.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:32 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Sterling,
>
> The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and you
> can spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data and
> have the mapping interface directly to the database and without too much
> other work the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is accessible
> on other devices. I would be willing to help you set something like this
> up. It’s not too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth file
> and/or spreadsheet established for their existing information. That can be
> imported and used to start the whole system. Software cost is nil, time is
> your other investment and paying me if you want some help in that regard.
> If you already have someone who is good with relational databases then your
> learning curve is not as steep.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> Sounds interesting.
>
>
>
> What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.
>
>
>
> Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and
> used capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each
> section by geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power
> readings on top of that.
>
>
>
> Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and
> capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.
>
>
>
> Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details
> between point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review
> things at any level.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End
> User Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Paul Stewart
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com
>
>
>
> It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many
> locations etc but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re
> looking to utilize it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely ….
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Brian Webster <
> i...@wirelessmapping.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a
> lot of support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but
> it has a lot more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its
> flexibility are the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time
> reading through each of those descriptions to see if there are features you
> want. It certainly has a learning curve as does any mapping program. On the
> higher level you can actually connect to most database platforms so if you
> plan on managing your plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both
> the mapping and database tied together as one.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[David Sovereen]

I emailed Rohn back again because I wanted to get clarification of what the 
anchor point was that was being tested, as the picture was very hard to see.  
He replied with this:

> From: Tim Rohn 
> Subject: RE: 25G Anchor Point Test
> Date: June 6, 2018 at 4:42:42 PM EDT
> To: David Sovereen 
> 
> David,
>  
> The connection is at the point where the brace connects to the leg.  They 
> should tie off around the leg and brace together.  Picture below shows the 
> location I  am referencing.  
>  
> The Tuf-Tug we sell a kit they supply similar to the attached.  Part number 
> TT05025 would be the 50’ option, sold in 50’ height increments.
>  
> 
>  
> Thanks,
> Tim Rohn
> 309.566.3037

So it would seem to me that Rohn 25s can be climbed with the same Y-lanyards we 
climb all our towers with.

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone  |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring
 
david.sover...@mercury.net 
www.mercury.net 



> On Jun 6, 2018, at 3:40 PM,   wrote:
> 
> +1000
>  
> From: Lewis Bergman <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:36 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>  
> First, I would think Rohn would have a legitimate "3rd party" interest in 
> your citation. I would definitely see if they would like to be involved.
> I think you can still be contrite and interested in correcting your 
> procedures while searching for the truth and the right way to do things. 
> Probably how you communicate the information might be as important, in this 
> case, as what you communicate. Maybe Rohn would be interested in taking up 
> the main role to educate the OSHA guy so you can be unscathed by it.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 9:01 AM > wrote:
>> Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard. 
>>  
>> From: Mathew Howard <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
>> To: af <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>> I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal 
>> well, a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM, > wrote:
>>> Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when 
>>> falling?  In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of 
>>> your face, you will still drop 6 feet, right?
>>>  
>>> From: Sean Heskett <>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>>>  
>>> I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.
>>>  
>>> ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' 
>>> so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while 
>>> you climb.  
>>>  
>>> I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com 
>>>  ) or any other trainer to give you 
>>> documentation about the ROHN 25.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -Sean
>>>  
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen >> <>> wrote:
 Hi All,
  
 A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
 Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
 protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
 protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put 
 his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it 
 anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead 
 about an hour later at the hospital.
  
 We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
  
  
  
  
 I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
 tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing 
 oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think 
 they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
  
 When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person 
 to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, 
 were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in 
 determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
  
 If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
 told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, 
 am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his 
 harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a 
 lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
  
 Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  
 Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
  
 Thanks,
  
 David Sovereen
  
 Mercury 

[AFMUG] Bicomm

[Kevin Neal]

Anyone using Bicom Systems for their VoIP customers or office?


-Kevin

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

+1000

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

First, I would think Rohn would have a legitimate "3rd party" interest in your 
citation. I would definitely see if they would like to be involved. 
I think you can still be contrite and interested in correcting your procedures 
while searching for the truth and the right way to do things. Probably how you 
communicate the information might be as important, in this case, as what you 
communicate. Maybe Rohn would be interested in taking up the main role to 
educate the OSHA guy so you can be unscathed by it.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 9:01 AM  wrote:

  Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
  I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal 
well, a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:

Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when 
falling?  In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your 
face, you will still drop 6 feet, right?

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' 
so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any 
other trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


-Sean

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen 
 wrote:

  Hi All,

  A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

  We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




  I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
trying to come up with reasons to fine us.

  When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person 
to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

  If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

  Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  
Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?

  Thanks,

  David Sovereen

  Mercury Network Corporation
  2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
  989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

  Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

  david.sover...@mercury.net
  www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Lewis Bergman]

First, I would think Rohn would have a legitimate "3rd party" interest in
your citation. I would definitely see if they would like to be involved.
I think you can still be contrite and interested in correcting your
procedures while searching for the truth and the right way to do things.
Probably how you communicate the information might be as important, in this
case, as what you communicate. Maybe Rohn would be interested in taking up
the main role to educate the OSHA guy so you can be unscathed by it.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 9:01 AM  wrote:

> Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
> I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal
> well, a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when
>> falling?  In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of
>> your face, you will still drop 6 feet, right?
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>>
>> I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.
>>
>> ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from
>> 3' so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while
>> you climb.
>>
>> I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any
>> other trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen <
>> david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed
>>> a Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
>>> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
>>> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
>>> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
>>> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
>>> about an hour later at the hospital.
>>>
>>> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
>>> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
>>> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
>>> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
>>> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>>>
>>> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
>>> to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation,
>>> were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in
>>> determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
>>>
>>> If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear,
>>> told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it,
>>> am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his
>>> harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a
>>> lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
>>>
>>> Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?
>>> Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> *David Sovereen*
>>>
>>> Mercury Network Corporation
>>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
>>> 
>>> 989
>>> .837.3790
>>> x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989
>>> 
>>> .837.3780 fax
>>>
>>> Telephone *|  *Internet*  |  *Security Alarm Monitoring
>>>
>>> david.sover...@mercury.net
>>> www.mercury.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[Robert Andrews]

Unfortunately for both wives and business partners, closest is the first 
suspect...


On 06/06/2018 12:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Paul McCall stepped up to help me out 5 years ago when a group of former 
business associates were hell bent on causing me as much grief as 
possible.  I will always be grateful for that help and really the 
support of all of you.
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.

The US involvement in WW2 was 1365 days.
So my war was one day longer than the US part of WW2.
The outcome was similar ...
Can’t say too much, but for the past few months this is what I have been 
looking like:

image
*From:* Paul McCall
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to jump in and let everyone know that we apologize that we are 
no longer able to stay on top of the Amazon instance associated with the 
list.  Amazon has been great as a platform, it really has worked well, 
all up to the point where the hackers have caused us more grief than we 
are equipped to deal with any more.


For the record, AWS has been 100% (and I mean 100%) flawless in 
performance and consistency.  The problems a couple months ago and now, 
are of a nature of hacks from the outside world, of which we were able 
to mitigate them last time, and to some extent, again this time.  My 
main staff member who managed this, is no longer accessible to me, so 
problem solving on these hacks has been slower and less effective than I 
am comfortable with.   Therefore, it seems beyond the scope, long term, 
of what makes good sense for the list, for us, or for Chuck to have to 
deal with.


Pride is a funny thing, but we actually took pride in being able to 
provide the service, even absorbing the cost beyond what some have said 
is reasonable.  Likewise, we are also proud to see AFMUG continue at its 
new home, under a new “group care” and our helping as much as we can 
with that effort.


Thank you for being patient as we move this all over to a new home.

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal well, 
a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:

  Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when falling? 
 In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your face, you 
will still drop 6 feet, right?

  From: Sean Heskett 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

  I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

  ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' 
so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

  I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any other 
trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


  -Sean

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
trying to come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay 
it and make it go away?  Something else?

Thanks,

David Sovereen

Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Robert Andrews]

Sorry to hear about your son..  True tragic..

I sure hope OSHA doesn't read this list...

On 06/06/2018 09:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
First, let me say that I am so sorry that your employee caused so much 
grief for all involved.
I am rabid about seat belt use.  I lost a son, who was wearing a 
seatbelt in a wreck.  My wife was driving.  She was saved by her seat 
belt so I am thankful for that.  I was an EMT for a while and have seen 
people walk away from horrific accidents because they simply buckled up. 
Same car dead people came out of the windshield.
There is only so much you can do.  If the other employee did not have 
the authority to fire the guy, he did everything he could do.  He 
shouldn’t beat himself up because someone else chose to be stupid.
Seconds, astounding about the Rohn anchor point strength.  Have you told 
Rohn.
I got an OSHA citation once.  I went in with the whole company, set 
through a session where they chewed my ass for about an hour.  Then 
another hour of training, then we were on probation for a while with 
periodic visits.  They reduced my $25K find to $2500.
The main take-away from the experience is that you need to show a “ 
compliant attitude”.  Fall all over yourself showing them that you need 
to learn how to do things better and you need their help to learn better 
methods etc.  Kiss their ass, treat them as gods, and in the process you 
may actually learn valuable things.  But that whole showing a “broken 
heart and contrite spirit” thing is key to getting the fine reduced.
Just lay on the floor and say “beat me master, I have sinned, please 
show me a better way” type of thing.

*From:* David Sovereen
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Rohn 25
Hi All,
A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed 
a Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his 
fall protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his 
fall protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him 
to put his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed 
without it anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was 
pronounced dead about an hour later at the hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.


I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday. He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to 
support 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for 
securing oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a 
lift.  I think they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person 
to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, 
were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent 
in determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use 
it, am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put 
his harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone 
through a lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  
Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?

Thanks,
*David Sovereen*
**
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
Telephone *| *Internet*  | *Security Alarm Monitoring
david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net 




Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year. He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his 
fall protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his 
fall protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him 
to put his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed 
without it anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was 
pronounced dead about an hour later at the hospital.


We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.



I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to 
support 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for 
securing oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a 
lift.  I think they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.


When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person 
to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, 
were.  

[AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[Paul McCall]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to jump in and let everyone know that we apologize that we are no 
longer able to stay on top of the Amazon instance associated with the list.  
Amazon has been great as a platform, it really has worked well, all up to the 
point where the hackers have caused us more grief than we are equipped to deal 
with any more.

For the record, AWS has been 100% (and I mean 100%) flawless in performance and 
consistency.  The problems a couple months ago and now, are of a nature of 
hacks from the outside world, of which we were able to mitigate them last time, 
and to some extent, again this time.  My main staff member who managed this, is 
no longer accessible to me, so problem solving on these hacks has been slower 
and less effective than I am comfortable with.   Therefore, it seems beyond the 
scope, long term, of what makes good sense for the list, for us, or for Chuck 
to have to deal with.

Pride is a funny thing, but we actually took pride in being able to provide the 
service, even absorbing the cost beyond what some have said is reasonable.  
Likewise, we are also proud to see AFMUG continue at its new home, under a new 
"group care" and our helping as much as we can with that effort.

Thank you for being patient as we move this all over to a new home.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Mathew Howard]

I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal
well, a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:

> Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when
> falling?  In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of
> your face, you will still drop 6 feet, right?
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>
> I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.
>
> ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from
> 3' so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while
> you climb.
>
> I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any
> other trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.
>
>
> -Sean
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen <
> david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a
>> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
>> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
>> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
>> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
>> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
>> about an hour later at the hospital.
>>
>> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
>> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
>> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
>> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
>> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>>
>> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
>> to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation,
>> were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in
>> determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
>>
>> If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear,
>> told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it,
>> am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his
>> harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a
>> lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
>>
>> Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?
>> Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *David Sovereen*
>>
>> Mercury Network Corporation
>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
>> 989
>> .837.3790
>> x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
>>
>> Telephone *|  *Internet*  |  *Security Alarm Monitoring
>>
>> david.sover...@mercury.net
>> www.mercury.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost,
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
but I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down
> ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>
> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
> 140Mbps each way.
> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>
> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>> or
>>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when falling?  
In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your face, you 
will still drop 6 feet, right?

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' so 
you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any other 
trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


-Sean

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

  Hi All,

  A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

  We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




  I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

  When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

  If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, told 
to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

  Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay 
it and make it go away?  Something else?

  Thanks,

  David Sovereen

  Mercury Network Corporation
  2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
  989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

  Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

  david.sover...@mercury.net
  www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Craig Schmaderer]

Mark, I totally agree.  I do have it networked but only I can make the changes. 
 I see it still working for us for a while but do not get me wrong, I would 
like actual software.  I think I might do a demo of patchmanager and check it 
out.  But in all honesty I do not think it takes me more time to do it this 
way, and if I can save $6k a year for the last 6 years, that is not to bad.

From: Af  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Didn't Donny Smith have a hosted offering in this arena?

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I’ll let Sterling learn it and then hopefully he can teach me...

From: Brian Webster
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Sterling,
The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and you can 
spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data and have 
the mapping interface directly to the database and without too much other work 
the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is accessible on other 
devices. I would be willing to help you set something like this up. It’s not 
too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth file and/or spreadsheet 
established for their existing information. That can be imported and used to 
start the whole system. Software cost is nil, time is your other investment and 
paying me if you want some help in that regard. If you already have someone who 
is good with relational databases then your learning curve is not as steep.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Sounds interesting.

What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.

Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and used 
capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each section by 
geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power readings on top 
of that.

Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and 
capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.

Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details between 
point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review things at any 
level.

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.



Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with 
www.towercoverage.com

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely ….

Paul


From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Brian 
Webster mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>>
Reply-To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

QGIS is very useful and open 

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Jaime Solorza]

Sorry to both of you for your loss.  I have physically stopped guys from
climbing without gear.  But if someone is hell bent to be stupid not much
you can do.

Jaime Solorza

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 10:49 AM  wrote:

> First, let me say that I am so sorry that your employee caused so much
> grief for all involved.
> I am rabid about seat belt use.  I lost a son, who was wearing a seatbelt
> in a wreck.  My wife was driving.  She was saved by her seat belt so I am
> thankful for that.  I was an EMT for a while and have seen people walk away
> from horrific accidents because they simply buckled up.  Same car dead
> people came out of the windshield.
>
> There is only so much you can do.  If the other employee did not have the
> authority to fire the guy, he did everything he could do.  He shouldn’t
> beat himself up because someone else chose to be stupid.
>
> Seconds, astounding about the Rohn anchor point strength.  Have you told
> Rohn.
>
> I got an OSHA citation once.  I went in with the whole company, set
> through a session where they chewed my ass for about an hour.  Then another
> hour of training, then we were on probation for a while with periodic
> visits.  They reduced my $25K find to $2500.
>
> The main take-away from the experience is that you need to show a “
> compliant attitude”.  Fall all over yourself showing them that you need to
> learn how to do things better and you need their help to learn better
> methods etc.  Kiss their ass, treat them as gods, and in the process you
> may actually learn valuable things.  But that whole showing a “broken heart
> and contrite spirit” thing is key to getting the fine reduced.
>
> Just lay on the floor and say “beat me master, I have sinned, please show
> me a better way” type of thing.
>
> *From:* David Sovereen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Rohn 25
>
> Hi All,
>
> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a
> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
> about an hour later at the hospital.
>
> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>
>
> --
>
>
> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>
> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
> to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation,
> were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in
> determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
>
> If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear,
> told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it,
> am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his
> harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a
> lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
>
> Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?
> Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *David Sovereen*
>
> Mercury Network Corporation
> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
>
> Telephone *|  *Internet*  |  *Security Alarm Monitoring
>
> david.sover...@mercury.net
> www.mercury.net
>
> --
>
>
> --
> Hi All,
>
> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a
> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
> about an hour later at the hospital.
>
> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>
>
>
> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>
> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Sean Heskett]

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3'
so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while
you climb.

I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any
other trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


-Sean

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a
> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall
> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall
> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put
> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it
> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead
> about an hour later at the hospital.
>
> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
>
>
>
>
> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He
> tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support
> 5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing
> oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think
> they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
>
> When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person
> to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation,
> were.  When my employees go through the training, they become competent in
> determining where suitable anchor points are, do they not?
>
> If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear,
> told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it,
> am I responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his
> harness on and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a
> lot of turmoil putting himself through “what if” scenarios.
>
> Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?
> Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *David Sovereen*
>
> Mercury Network Corporation
> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
>
> Telephone * |  *Internet*  |  *Security Alarm Monitoring
>
> david.sover...@mercury.net
> www.mercury.net
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] another test

[Sean Heskett]

received @ 10:26am MDT 6/6/2018 (1 min after you sent it)

-sean


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Justin Marshall  wrote:

> Testing, sent @ 12:25pm EDT 6/6/2018
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Jason McKemie]

Didn't Donny Smith have a hosted offering in this arena?

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:

> I’ll let Sterling learn it and then hopefully he can teach me...
>
> *From:* Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:32 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
> Sterling,
>
> The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and you
> can spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data and
> have the mapping interface directly to the database and without too much
> other work the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is accessible
> on other devices. I would be willing to help you set something like this
> up. It’s not too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth file
> and/or spreadsheet established for their existing information. That can be
> imported and used to start the whole system. Software cost is nil, time is
> your other investment and paying me if you want some help in that regard.
> If you already have someone who is good with relational databases then your
> learning curve is not as steep.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> Sounds interesting.
>
>
>
> What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.
>
>
>
> Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and
> used capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each
> section by geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power
> readings on top of that.
>
>
>
> Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and
> capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.
>
>
>
> Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details
> between point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review
> things at any level.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End
> User Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Paul Stewart
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com
>
>
>
> It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many
> locations etc but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re
> looking to utilize it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely ….
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Brian Webster <
> i...@wirelessmapping.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a
> lot of support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but
> it has a lot more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its
> flexibility are the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time
> reading through each of those descriptions to see if there are features you
> want. It certainly has a learning curve as does any mapping program. On the
> higher level you can actually connect to most database platforms so if you
> plan on managing your plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both
> the mapping and database tied together as one.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>
>
>
> QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).
>
>
>
> Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be
> used for it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>
>
> For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is
> that most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML
> format Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a
> multi-segmented line is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML
> file with lat/long coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of
> the line, the color of the line, how many intermediate points are on the
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). If 
you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps each 
way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I probably 
could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a little 
higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher modulations 
at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it probably 
could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add some 20% 
capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go up to 
100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Jason McKemie]

Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:

> I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS
> is getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long
> enough.  Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to
> mailmanhost.com
> Will probably take a few days.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List
>
> Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
> everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.
>

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[Josh Baird]

I think this is a good move.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 2:08 PM,  wrote:

> Problems.  It is on AWS.  Who knows.
>
> Worked great for almost 5 years.
>
> But since it is just maintenance by a committee of volunteers, I figured
> it best to just move it over to folks that specialize in running lists for
> others.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list
>
> Amazon problems?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.
>> -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, June
>> 6, 2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this
>> list
>> Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?
>>
>> --
>> Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet
>> Services 417.851.1107
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list
>>
>> Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com
>>
>> They need a sub domain.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

Problems.  It is on AWS.  Who knows.  

Worked great for almost 5 years.  

But since it is just maintenance by a committee of volunteers, I figured it 
best to just move it over to folks that specialize in running lists for others. 
 

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

Amazon problems?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM,  wrote:

  I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.  
  -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 
2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list 

  Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?

  -- 
  Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

  - Original Message -
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list

  Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

  They need a sub domain.

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[Josh Luthman]

Amazon problems?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM,  wrote:

> I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.
> -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, June
> 6, 2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this
> list
> Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?
>
> --
> Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet
> Services 417.851.1107
>
> - Original Message -
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list
>
> Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com
>
> They need a sub domain.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Mathew Howard]

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
140Mbps each way.
Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
(it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>> or
>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

I’ll let Sterling learn it and then hopefully he can teach me...

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Sterling,

The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and you can 
spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data and have 
the mapping interface directly to the database and without too much other work 
the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is accessible on other 
devices. I would be willing to help you set something like this up. It’s not 
too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth file and/or spreadsheet 
established for their existing information. That can be imported and used to 
start the whole system. Software cost is nil, time is your other investment and 
paying me if you want some help in that regard. If you already have someone who 
is good with relational databases then your learning curve is not as steep.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Sounds interesting.

 

What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.

 

Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and used 
capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each section by 
geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power readings on top 
of that.

 

Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and 
capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.

 

Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details between 
point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review things at any 
level.

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.  

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

 

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely …. 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Brian Webster 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).   

 

Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used for 
it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

 

Mark

 

On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

 

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is that 
most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML format 
Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a multi-segmented line 
is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file with lat/long 
coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, the color of 
the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so forth. 

 

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders in 
Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up with 
a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when viewed on 
a map but can become an organization nightmare.

 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Last topic 

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.  

-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:23 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list 


Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?

--
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107


- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list

Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

They need a sub domain.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Brian Webster]

Sterling,

The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and you can 
spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data and have 
the mapping interface directly to the database and without too much other work 
the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is accessible on other 
devices. I would be willing to help you set something like this up. It’s not 
too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth file and/or spreadsheet 
established for their existing information. That can be imported and used to 
start the whole system. Software cost is nil, time is your other investment and 
paying me if you want some help in that regard. If you already have someone who 
is good with relational databases then your learning curve is not as steep.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Sounds interesting.

 

What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.

 

Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and used 
capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each section by 
geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power readings on top 
of that.

 

Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and 
capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.

 

Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details between 
point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review things at any 
level.

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.  

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website:   
http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

 

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely …. 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Brian Webster 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).   

 

Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used for 
it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

 

Mark

 

On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

 

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is that 
most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML format 
Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a multi-segmented line 
is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file with lat/long 
coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, the color of 
the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so forth. 

 

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders in 
Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up with 
a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when viewed on 
a map but can become an organization nightmare.

 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

 

In 2014 I read:

Craig 

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[Christopher Tyler]

Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?

-- 
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list

Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

They need a sub domain.

Re: [AFMUG] 12V 8-10A wall mount battery backup

[Carl Peterson]

Thanks Mark,

It looks like all the 12V ones there are 2-3A

Alpha makes MPS12-100-8H and MPS12-100-GD which are 7.5A.  I've asked P
for quotes...

The Mean well AD-155A might work but then I would need to build it into an
enclosure with a battery and I'm trying for easy.



On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:

> Carl,
>
> What about the cyberpower FTTX battery backup units?
> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/fttx/
>
> We've also looked into these before
> https://www.powertecsolutions.net/solutions/#psi-micro-ups-series
>
>
> I saw a BBU built into a wall wart in a security magazine a while back.
> Thinking that may be too low on the amps.
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Wednesday, June 6, 2018, 12:19:32 PM, you wrote: *
>
> I'm looking for a 12V 8-10A power supply and battery backup for Calix
> E3s.  Something that I could just mount to the telco board in a MDU.
> Doesn't need a whole lot of battery but an hour or so would be nice.
> Anyone have anything that they like?
>



-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

They need a sub domain.  

Re: [AFMUG] 12V 8-10A wall mount battery backup

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] 12V 8-10A wall mount battery backup


Carl,

What about the cyberpower FTTX battery backup units?
https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/fttx/

We've also looked into these before
https://www.powertecsolutions.net/solutions/#psi-micro-ups-series


I saw a BBU built into a wall wart in a security magazine a while back.  Thinking that may be too low on the amps.



-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, June 6, 2018, 12:19:32 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking for a 12V 8-10A power supply and battery backup for Calix E3s.  Something that I could just mount to the telco board in a MDU. Doesn't need a whole lot of battery but an hour or so would be nice.  Anyone have anything that they like?  

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

First, let me say that I am so sorry that your employee caused so much grief 
for all involved.
I am rabid about seat belt use.  I lost a son, who was wearing a seatbelt in a 
wreck.  My wife was driving.  She was saved by her seat belt so I am thankful 
for that.  I was an EMT for a while and have seen people walk away from 
horrific accidents because they simply buckled up.  Same car dead people came 
out of the windshield.

There is only so much you can do.  If the other employee did not have the 
authority to fire the guy, he did everything he could do.  He shouldn’t beat 
himself up because someone else chose to be stupid.  

Seconds, astounding about the Rohn anchor point strength.  Have you told Rohn.

I got an OSHA citation once.  I went in with the whole company, set through a 
session where they chewed my ass for about an hour.  Then another hour of 
training, then we were on probation for a while with periodic visits.  They 
reduced my $25K find to $2500.

The main take-away from the experience is that you need to show a “ compliant 
attitude”.  Fall all over yourself showing them that you need to learn how to 
do things better and you need their help to learn better methods etc.  Kiss 
their ass, treat them as gods, and in the process you may actually learn 
valuable things.  But that whole showing a “broken heart and contrite spirit” 
thing is key to getting the fine reduced.  

Just lay on the floor and say “beat me master, I have sinned, please show me a 
better way” type of thing.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a Rohn 
25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall protection 
gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall protection gear 
was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his harness on, but 
he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He slipped, fell 
approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour later at the 
hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 







I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, told to 
always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay it 
and make it go away?  Something else?

Thanks,

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net










Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a Rohn 
25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall protection 
gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall protection gear 
was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his harness on, but 
he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He slipped, fell 
approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour later at the 
hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.



I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they 

[AFMUG] another test

[Justin Marshall]

Testing, sent @ 12:25pm EDT 6/6/2018

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Excellent, thanks for the advice.  
What does a whole system cost?

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

First, I'd recommend the new AF5XHD which is a huge upgrade over the AF5x. 

You can then use that radio with either the 30db or 34db dish you listed. At 15 
miles, I would recommend the 34db dish as that is quite the long haul. If the 
customer is paying any decent amount of money, you'll recoup your costs quickly.

With 34db dishes and clean 20mhz spectrum, you can easily move about 240 Mbps 
aggregate through the link with 10x modulation and you can decide duty cycle 
like 50/50 for 120 Mbps each way or 75/25, etc.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  




-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] List

[chuck]

I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS is 
getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long enough. 
 Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to mailmanhost.com
Will probably take a few days.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List

Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless 
everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.

[AFMUG] 12V 8-10A wall mount battery backup

[Carl Peterson]

I'm looking for a 12V 8-10A power supply and battery backup for Calix E3s.
Something that I could just mount to the telco board in a MDU. Doesn't need
a whole lot of battery but an hour or so would be nice.  Anyone have
anything that they like?

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jaime Solorza]

We installed AF5 16 mile link with 34dB dishes to provide 100Mbps to
hospital... averages 92 to 97MBps...

Jaime Solorza

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
> ?
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT TV Show

[D. Ryan Spott]

It’s like adult children of alcoholics therapy live in TV!

ryan

-- 
D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc
broadband | telco | colo | communities
PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294
425-939-0047

> On Jun 1, 2018, at 23:09, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> American Chopper is back.  Mondays.  Watched the first two episodes tonight.  
> Philo.  $16/month

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jon Langeler]

I wouldn’t go non-HD on the AF at this point. last I checked AF is only fixed 
ratio but might be fine. But speeds using 5AC won’t be slow comparatively.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>  
> ?
>  
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps. 

[AFMUG] test

[Justin Marshall]

test

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Mathew Howard]

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).






On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
> ?
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>

Re: [AFMUG] iRedmail

[Tim Reichhart]

I am its ok for basic email server.



 
-Original Message- 
> From: Matt  
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Date: 06/05/18 01:49 
> Subject: [AFMUG] iRedmail 
> 
> Anyone using iRedmail for an email server?  How is it working for you?

[AFMUG] test

[Justin Marshall]

test

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Darin Steffl]

First, I'd recommend the new AF5XHD which is a huge upgrade over the AF5x.

You can then use that radio with either the 30db or 34db dish you listed.
At 15 miles, I would recommend the 34db dish as that is quite the long
haul. If the customer is paying any decent amount of money, you'll recoup
your costs quickly.

With 34db dishes and clean 20mhz spectrum, you can easily move about 240
Mbps aggregate through the link with 10x modulation and you can decide duty
cycle like 50/50 for 120 Mbps each way or 75/25, etc.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
> ?
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Cameron Crum]

Probably the AF

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
> ?
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jason Wilson]

I am running Mimosa b5c on a RD34 38km 2x40mhz



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
> or
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
> ?
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>

[AFMUG] Are we dead again?

[Seth Mattinen]

Did the list die again? I thought the whole point of moving to the 
amazon cloud crap was that it was reliable and had support...

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

I like the systems that allow you to click on a fiber and have it open a detail 
report of what the strands are being used for.  Same with with splice cases, 
some systems can show what is spliced to what.  

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.  

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

 

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely …. 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Brian Webster 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).   

 

Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used for 
it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

 

Mark





On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

 

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is that 
most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML format 
Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a multi-segmented line 
is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file with lat/long 
coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, the color of 
the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so forth. 

 

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders in 
Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up with 
a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when viewed on 
a map but can become an organization nightmare.

 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

 

In 2014 I read:

Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.

Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.

Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.

A few other google sheets. 

 

What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?





-c




 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Sterling Jacobson]

Sounds interesting.

What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.

Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and used 
capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each section by 
geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power readings on top 
of that.

Then the network layer on top of that with all the switch connections and 
capacity, then the layer 3 on top of that with current routing info.

Too much to ask for, but it would be awesome to say give me the details between 
point A and B and explode the view open to all layers to review things at any 
level.

From: Af  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.



Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely ….

Paul


From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Brian 
Webster mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>>
Reply-To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).

Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used for 
it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

Mark

On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is that 
most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML format 
Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a multi-segmented line 
is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file with lat/long 
coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, the color of 
the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so forth.

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders in 
Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up with 
a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when viewed on 
a map but can become an organization nightmare.

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote:
Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

In 2014 I read:
Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
A few other google sheets.

What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?

-c

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Sterling Jacobson]

What kind of costs are we talking about?

We’ve got lines on GE and hand drawn maps and spreadsheets of info along with 
stuff in several peoples heads that need to be put into a system soon.

And limited time/budget to allocate to this, so it has to be an awesome 
intuitive product with great support and not cost $10k.



From: Af  On Behalf Of Leroy Koglin
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018


We started using VETROFiberMap about 6 months ago. Very happy with them.

http://vetrofibermap.com/



On 6/1/2018 4:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

In 2014 I read:
Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
A few other google sheets.

What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?


-c

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

Cost?
Looks like the list may have come back again...

From: Leroy Koglin 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

We started using VETROFiberMap about 6 months ago. Very happy with them.

http://vetrofibermap.com/





On 6/1/2018 4:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:

  Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018? 

  In 2014 I read:
  Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
  Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
  Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
  A few other google sheets. 


  What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  
Something different? Why?


  -c

[AFMUG] List

[Jason McKemie]

Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless
everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.