[AFMUG] Limited run of AW3464 900mhz dual-slant omnis actually available

[Colin Stanners]

For those who can fit some in their network/business plan, a limited run of
Alpha AW3464 900mhz dual-slant omnis is now actually available. Contact
Carey at Crossover Distribution.

Re: [AFMUG] CnMaestro keeps dropping AP's

[Josh Luthman]

There was a bug on older versions.  I think early 3.x?  I don't believe it
exists in 3.5.1


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Yep,
> the only way to get them back online in cnM is to reboot the AP. Bummer.
> It shows that it is connected on the UI. Must be a bug.
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:53 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> have you tried clicking on the 3 dots next to the AP in the monitor list
>> and then select refresh?  (hopefully the image comes thru the list)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Sam Lambie 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Even thought they are still up and running fine, it shows 2 of the AP's
>>> ad down but the SM's are still connected.
>>> Any suggestions on how to get the AP's to show up without rebooting? I
>>> host cnmaestro locally.
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] CnMaestro keeps dropping AP's

[Steve Jones]

Are they natted? How many devices are behind that nat if so

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 12:32 PM Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Yep,
> the only way to get them back online in cnM is to reboot the AP. Bummer.
> It shows that it is connected on the UI. Must be a bug.
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:53 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> have you tried clicking on the 3 dots next to the AP in the monitor list
>> and then select refresh?  (hopefully the image comes thru the list)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Sam Lambie 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Even thought they are still up and running fine, it shows 2 of the AP's
>>> ad down but the SM's are still connected.
>>> Any suggestions on how to get the AP's to show up without rebooting? I
>>> host cnmaestro locally.
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

[AFMUG] Recent licensed link pricing?

[Peter Kranz]

Anyone priced out 18Ghz capable hardware recently? Need to do a new 3 link
build, thinking of using Dragonwave-X Harmony Enhanced MC radios.
http://www.dragonwavex.com/products/packet-microwave/harmony-enhancedmc

 

Curious if any new players in the market are more cost effective than
Dragonwave for a dual-carrier, all outdoor, 2x80Mhz 4096QAM capable radio.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Steve Jones]

i hate that chuck is open about product flaws and offers troubleshooting
ideas, he pawns all the guild off on us for never having the time

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 6:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Surge suppressors can certainly cause this.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 9, 2018, at 2:58 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
> >
> > What suppressors?
> >
> >> On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
> >> I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS
> errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx,
> the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.
> I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units,
> but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on
> the sector.
> >>
> >> Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that
> putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik
> solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are
> creating an issue as well.
> >>
> >> -Jason
> >
>

[AFMUG] test

[Colin Stanners]

test

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Jason McKemie]

It was definitely the surge suppressor.  I took the one out of in-line at
the bottom and errors went away.  I had tried to put one up top, but
couldn't get the A5 to even power up with it inline, so there isn't one
present up there anyhow.

Now, how do I determine which version I'm getting? I have a few of the
earlier versions sitting around that it appears are not going to work well
for this application.  Strangely, I have a Ceragon running gigabit through
the same version with no problems at all.

-Jason

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 6:55 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Surge suppressors can certainly cause this.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 9, 2018, at 2:58 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
> >
> > What suppressors?
> >
> >> On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
> >> I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS
> errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx,
> the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.
> I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units,
> but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on
> the sector.
> >>
> >> Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that
> putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik
> solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are
> creating an issue as well.
> >>
> >> -Jason
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] CnMaestro keeps dropping AP's

[Sam Lambie]

Yep,
the only way to get them back online in cnM is to reboot the AP. Bummer. It
shows that it is connected on the UI. Must be a bug.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:53 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> have you tried clicking on the 3 dots next to the AP in the monitor list
> and then select refresh?  (hopefully the image comes thru the list)
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
>> Even thought they are still up and running fine, it shows 2 of the AP's
>> ad down but the SM's are still connected.
>> Any suggestions on how to get the AP's to show up without rebooting? I
>> host cnmaestro locally.
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>
>
>

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] CnMaestro keeps dropping AP's

[Sean Heskett]

have you tried clicking on the 3 dots next to the AP in the monitor list
and then select refresh?  (hopefully the image comes thru the list)




On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Even thought they are still up and running fine, it shows 2 of the AP's ad
> down but the SM's are still connected.
> Any suggestions on how to get the AP's to show up without rebooting? I
> host cnmaestro locally.
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

[AFMUG] Cambium Power Injector C000065L002A

[Sam Lambie]

Is this puppy 802.3.at compliant? I want to use it to power an axis camera.
I can't seem to find specs anywhere on the web as to what it is. Scared of
the magic smoke

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

[AFMUG] CnMaestro keeps dropping AP's

[Sam Lambie]

Even thought they are still up and running fine, it shows 2 of the AP's ad
down but the SM's are still connected.
Any suggestions on how to get the AP's to show up without rebooting? I host
cnmaestro locally.
-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Cameron Crum]

They'd all be on trial for their treatment of women by now. That is a
bygone era.

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> isnt that a broads only oceans flick? tsk tsk tsk
> I miss the real rat pack, I wish we had a rat pack today
>
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM  wrote:
>
>> MoviePass makes you send a photo of your ticket now.
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 9, 2018 9:20 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>> Saw Hotel Artemis last night I felt it needed another hour of
>> storyline.
>>
>> Have not made it to Ocean's 8 yet... my MoviePass is getting a good
>> workout though
>>
>> Sent from my smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Jaime Solorza" 
>> To: "Animal Farm" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>> Date: Sat, Jun 9, 2018 8:10 PM
>>
>> We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Oceans 8
>>>
>>> Meh
>>>
>>> OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
>>> Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Colin Stanners]

Chuck, you can use hosts file entries on your PC so it will go to a
different IP address even if the domain hasn't transferred.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:01 PM,  wrote:

> Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into
> the back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
> if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
> the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there
>
> out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like
> the aws list?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:
>
>> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
>> believe there is a bulk import.
>> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>>
>> *From:* Carl Peterson
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>
>> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new
>> list?
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>>> steal it away from them.
>>>
>>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>>
>>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says
>>> “in process” or something like that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553+%0D%0A+++Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553+%0D%0A+++Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Steve Jones]

is there a red button perhaps that says dont push? push that button

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:36 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Knobs, switches , buttons and levers!!
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 11:01 AM  wrote:
>
>> Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get
>> into the back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>
>> if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
>> the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there
>>
>> out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like
>> the aws list?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
>>> believe there is a bulk import.
>>> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>>>
>>> *From:* Carl Peterson
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>>
>>> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new
>>> list?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>>>> steal it away from them.
>>>>
>>>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>>>
>>>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says
>>>> “in process” or something like that.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Steve Jones]

isnt that a broads only oceans flick? tsk tsk tsk
I miss the real rat pack, I wish we had a rat pack today

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

> MoviePass makes you send a photo of your ticket now.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 9, 2018 9:20 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>
>
> Saw Hotel Artemis last night I felt it needed another hour of
> storyline.
>
> Have not made it to Ocean's 8 yet... my MoviePass is getting a good
> workout though
>
> Sent from my smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Jaime Solorza" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
> Date: Sat, Jun 9, 2018 8:10 PM
>
> We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Oceans 8
>>
>> Meh
>>
>> OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
>> Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] RackInjector and SyncPipe

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

There's this really nice "GPS status" page on the rackinjector which will
show you when the GPS receiver drops a pulse, or detects a misaligned
pulse.As a general rule, only the 'correct' counter should be
incrementing - bearing in mind that GPS timing is not perfect, and you will
get an occasional missing and/or misaligned pulse.  I would be really
interested in knowing if any counters (other than correct) increment around
the same time as you see this issue.

If the GPS is missing an occasional pulse and it's causing this error, I
might be able to patch this in software by telling the GPS to holdover the
pulse for some period.   So far, I haven't been able to determine if this
is a missing pulse issue or not.

We do have a growing, but still very small (2-3), group of operators which
have seen a problem which matches yours.At least 2 of them have
reported that this affects 900 and 2.4 450i products and that 5.7 radios
seem at least mostly immune.   There are also some on the cambium forum
which report similar issues with various other sync products (CTM or CMM)
but again on the 2.4/900 450i's.

One theory is that the radios occasionally will pick up a pulse from a
source they are not using, and will attempt to switch to it for some
reason.As a result, one thing to try is to turn off the unused sync
sources via telnet, specifically one of:

syncpowerport off
syncpowerport off camb
synctimingport off

The first is for traditional canopy sync, the second is cambium sync, and
the final one is timing port sync.These are immedate, and are sticky
after a reboot.  Switching off to on in the command will undo this change.

-forrest

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Matt  wrote:

> I have a rackinjector with Cambium Sync. My PMP450i devices seem to keep
> losing sync. I updated the firmware on the RackInjector to the 2018-05-07
> latest. That seemed to help some. I still seem to lose sync on all
> connected devices every 8 hours or less very briefly. I moved syncpipe for
> cleaner sky view. Still dropping.  Some of the devices are halfway up 190
> foot tower and some at top so different cat5 lengths. Seems to affect them
> all. This is newer syncpipe with door on it. Is there anyway to tell in
> logs where the sync loss is coming from etc?
>
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

[AFMUG] RackInjector and SyncPipe

[Matt]

I have a rackinjector with Cambium Sync. My PMP450i devices seem to keep
losing sync. I updated the firmware on the RackInjector to the 2018-05-07
latest. That seemed to help some. I still seem to lose sync on all
connected devices every 8 hours or less very briefly. I moved syncpipe for
cleaner sky view. Still dropping.  Some of the devices are halfway up 190
foot tower and some at top so different cat5 lengths. Seems to affect them
all. This is newer syncpipe with door on it. Is there anyway to tell in
logs where the sync loss is coming from etc?

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[Jaime Solorza]

Hum.  A disturbance in the flux capacitor?

Jaime Solorza

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:36 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Received 3 minutes before you sent it.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/9/2018 10:57 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[chuck]

MoviePass makes you send a photo of your ticket now.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 9:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


Saw Hotel Artemis last night I felt it needed another hour of storyline.

Have not made it to Ocean's 8 yet... my MoviePass is getting a good workout 
though

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jaime Solorza" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
Date: Sat, Jun 9, 2018 8:10 PM

We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay 

Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Oceans 8

  Meh

  OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
  Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.  

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[Bill Prince]

Received 3 minutes before you sent it.


bp


On 6/9/2018 10:57 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Saw Hotel Artemis last night I felt it needed another hour of storyline.

Have not made it to Ocean's 8 yet... my MoviePass is getting a good workout 
though

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jaime Solorza" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
Date: Sat, Jun 9, 2018 8:10 PM

We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay
Jaime Solorza


On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:




Oceans 8

 

Meh

 

OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.

Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Jaime Solorza]

We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay

Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Oceans 8
>
> Meh
>
> OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
> Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.
>

[AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Chuck McCown]

Oceans 8

Meh

OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.  

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Chuck McCown]

Surge suppressors can certainly cause this.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2018, at 2:58 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> What suppressors?
> 
>> On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>> I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS errors 
>> on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx, the Rx 
>> FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.  I've always 
>> gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units, but not nearly 
>> this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on the sector.
>> 
>> Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that putting 
>> something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved their 
>> issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an issue as 
>> well.
>> 
>> -Jason
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

The easiest way to tell is obviously to take the SS out and see if the 
errors stop. And as Chuck has said in the past, an SS can get wounded. 
Definitely seen that. In fact, just the other day I had two 450 sectors 
with link losses, falling back to 10Mbps, etc. and quite a lot of 
errors. Took the Rev D SS's out and the errors were gone. Replaced them 
with new Rev E's I happened to have in my truck and they're running fine 
(100Mbps and Canopy sync). The Rev D's did their job.


On 6/9/2018 4:42 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
They are Chuck's suppressors and I'm pretty sure they are an older 
revision as well, so that could be a contributing factor.


On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:14 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Guess I should correct my grammar and say which suppressor(s)?

And follow that up with the assumption that you're using Chuck's
suppressors? The only one that produced no errors for me is the
CAT6-APC which is just gas tubes, no diodes. He asked me to test
one more thing with the Rev G GigE-APC, but I just haven't had the
time to get out to a site and do it.

I am using some Rev D and E GigE-APCs on Canopy and ePMP at
100Mbps and sync pulses present and those work fine. Gigabit is
the real pain in the ass. Gigabit + Canopy sync is even more of a
pain in the ass. I've got old Rev A (or B? I don't remember)
GigE-APCs and GigE-POE-APCs that work fine at gigabit and no sync
pulse, mostly AirFibers and some Exalt radios on those.

The CAT6-APC is probably what we'll move forward with for
everything since it'll be the most universal and offer decent
protection. Actually probably better than decent. I think Chuck
said the clamp voltage is around 90-100 volts. The cheap stuff
might die, but it's cheap so who cares.


On 6/9/2018 3:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting
hundreds of Rx FCS errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running
gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop,
but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.  I've
always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to
have an effect on service on the sector.

Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were
claiming that putting something like a Netonix in between
the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm
wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an issue
as well.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Jason McKemie]

They are Chuck's suppressors and I'm pretty sure they are an older revision
as well, so that could be a contributing factor.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:14 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Guess I should correct my grammar and say which suppressor(s)?
>
> And follow that up with the assumption that you're using Chuck's
> suppressors? The only one that produced no errors for me is the CAT6-APC
> which is just gas tubes, no diodes. He asked me to test one more thing with
> the Rev G GigE-APC, but I just haven't had the time to get out to a site
> and do it.
>
> I am using some Rev D and E GigE-APCs on Canopy and ePMP at 100Mbps and
> sync pulses present and those work fine. Gigabit is the real pain in the
> ass. Gigabit + Canopy sync is even more of a pain in the ass. I've got old
> Rev A (or B? I don't remember) GigE-APCs and GigE-POE-APCs that work fine
> at gigabit and no sync pulse, mostly AirFibers and some Exalt radios on
> those.
>
> The CAT6-APC is probably what we'll move forward with for everything since
> it'll be the most universal and offer decent protection. Actually probably
> better than decent. I think Chuck said the clamp voltage is around 90-100
> volts. The cheap stuff might die, but it's cheap so who cares.
>
>
> On 6/9/2018 3:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:
>
>> What suppressors?
>>
>> On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>>> I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS
>>> errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx,
>>> the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.
>>> I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units,
>>> but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on
>>> the sector.
>>>
>>> Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that putting
>>> something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved
>>> their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an
>>> issue as well.
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

Guess I should correct my grammar and say which suppressor(s)?

And follow that up with the assumption that you're using Chuck's 
suppressors? The only one that produced no errors for me is the CAT6-APC 
which is just gas tubes, no diodes. He asked me to test one more thing 
with the Rev G GigE-APC, but I just haven't had the time to get out to a 
site and do it.


I am using some Rev D and E GigE-APCs on Canopy and ePMP at 100Mbps and 
sync pulses present and those work fine. Gigabit is the real pain in the 
ass. Gigabit + Canopy sync is even more of a pain in the ass. I've got 
old Rev A (or B? I don't remember) GigE-APCs and GigE-POE-APCs that work 
fine at gigabit and no sync pulse, mostly AirFibers and some Exalt 
radios on those.


The CAT6-APC is probably what we'll move forward with for everything 
since it'll be the most universal and offer decent protection. Actually 
probably better than decent. I think Chuck said the clamp voltage is 
around 90-100 volts. The cheap stuff might die, but it's cheap so who cares.


On 6/9/2018 3:58 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS 
errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 
fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing 
instead.  I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa 
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an 
effect on service on the sector.


Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that 
putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the 
Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge 
suppressors are creating an issue as well.


-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[George Skorup]

What suppressors?

On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS 
errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 
fdx, the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing 
instead.  I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa 
A5/A5C units, but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an 
effect on service on the sector.


Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that 
putting something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the 
Mikrotik solved their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge 
suppressors are creating an issue as well.


-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Brough Turner]

Thanks all, this is a very useful discussion.
And I'm particularly encouraged by Paul Stewart's comments!

As Eric Kuhnke remarked, by flat I meant all routers in OSPF area 0. We do
use a single layer two network with multiple vlans within each apartment
building or condo complex, but it's all routed between buildings or
building complexes, usually with at least two paths to each complex. The
network I described is the largest of several fiber-fed,
radio-interconnected networks that have private ASNs, iBGP in between and
BGP confederation so each network's default route is upstream on its fiber
but any network can failover via radio during a fiber outage.

In the largest network (the one with 600+ routers) the only measurable
issue I can see today is the time for routes to propagate. If I add a route
or I throw traffic in one part of the network onto a backup path, the route
change can take 2-3 seconds to appear on a router that is far removed from
where the change happened. But that's the only issue I can see during
normal operation.

We have had occasions (luckily not very often) when someone has introduce
an address conflict.  Besides screwing up a specific existing customer,
this typically causes a route flap which is visible in Winbox looking at
IP, Routes - the relevant portion of the table jumps up and down by one
route at a rate of about 2-3 seconds.

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Google+
<https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | Twitter
<https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | Blog
<http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal website
<http://broughturner.com/>



On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> I’ve done a lot of work with that model in the past and it works very well
> …. Extremely flexible what you can then do for multi-service handoff as
> well 😉
>
>
>
> -p
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Carl Peterson <
> cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Friday, June 8, 2018 at 1:52 PM
>
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> I've been thinking a lot about the flat -> routed transition lately and my
> current thinking is that we over reacted and just went to routers
> everywhere.  We have been trimming back a lot and moving to running QinQ
> over VPLS where every sub has their own CVLAN in an SVLAN.  As I get more
> comfortable with it, I'm thinking about expanding it and dropping more of
> the "core" locations with routers.  Instead of A--B--C all with routers, we
> would drop the router at B and just run B with a primary and secondary VPLS
> circuit, say primary through A and secondary through C.  Saves a ton on
> enclosures, batteries etc.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stewart 
> wrote:
>
> Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell
> you with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing
> capability) that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just
> fine.  One company I consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k
> routes in OSPF .. seriously … and yes they did experience some issues but
> they were not big enough issues to warrant changing til a few years later
> when they migrated everything to ISIS anyways.  That’s the most extreme
> example and not one I personally recommend 😉
>
>
>
> As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no
> “one size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed
> then specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers…
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <
> eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the
> Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a
> typical router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or
> even something smaller like a 2621.
>
>
>
> Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks
> but not as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in
> routing platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
> This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in
> O

[AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Jason McKemie]

I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS
errors on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx,
the Rx FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.
I've always gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units,
but not nearly this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on
the sector.

Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that putting
something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved
their issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an
issue as well.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

I should say, slowly shipping small quantities to beta test customers.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

I already have that.  We are slowly shipping small quantities.  Ramping up.
Adding the single pol and adding the Andrew valuline adapter.  

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

So you won’t have a dual pol adapter?


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Jun 9, 2018, at 3:02 PM,   wrote:


  Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Que pasa , calabasa?


  Jaime Solorza

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

I already have that.  We are slowly shipping small quantities.  Ramping up.
Adding the single pol and adding the Andrew valuline adapter.  

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

So you won’t have a dual pol adapter?


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Jun 9, 2018, at 3:02 PM,   wrote:


  Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Que pasa , calabasa?


  Jaime Solorza

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

So you won’t have a dual pol adapter?

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Jun 9, 2018, at 3:02 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
> will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused. 
>  
> From: Jaime Solorza
> Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific
>  
> Que pasa , calabasa?
> 
> Jaime Solorza
>  
>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:
>> Received one minute before you sent it. 
>>  
>> From: Jason McKemie
>> Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific
>>  
>> Received here about 1pm central.
>>  
>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>> 
>>  

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Que pasa , calabasa?


Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

  Received one minute before you sent it.  

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Received here about 1pm central.

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[Jaime Solorza]

Que pasa , calabasa?

Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

> Received one minute before you sent it.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific
>
> Received here about 1pm central.
>
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[Jason McKemie]

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

>

[AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[TJ Trout]

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jeremy]

Yeah, straying off-topic but our 6GHz link is actually a Trango that we own
and are moving around as we upgrade to higher capacity backhauls.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:49 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> The older ubiquiti radios can be set to "compliance test" mode, and then
> you can use any channel that the chipset supports (not legally, obviously).
> On later firmware, they get rid of that option, and the new radios are
> locked to the US/Canada country code, so they're a lot harder to do
> blatantly illegal stuff with (unless you get the world wide version, which
> you aren't supposed to be able to buy in the US, but it's not hard to get
> one if you really want to). I don't think you can get too far into the 6ghz
> range with a normal Rocket, but they did (maybe still do... ) make an M6
> version for the Russian market...
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
>> that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
>> Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
>> it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
>> me...another tool in my bag...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
>>> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
>>> money that way.  
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at
>>> 19 miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
>>>> how much spectrum you want to use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, that explains everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow, what size dishes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
>>>> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
>>>> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
>>>> it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
>>>> too, but I assume you know where to get those...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>>>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Mathew Howard]

The older ubiquiti radios can be set to "compliance test" mode, and then
you can use any channel that the chipset supports (not legally, obviously).
On later firmware, they get rid of that option, and the new radios are
locked to the US/Canada country code, so they're a lot harder to do
blatantly illegal stuff with (unless you get the world wide version, which
you aren't supposed to be able to buy in the US, but it's not hard to get
one if you really want to). I don't think you can get too far into the 6ghz
range with a normal Rocket, but they did (maybe still do... ) make an M6
version for the Russian market...


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
> that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
> Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
> it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
> me...another tool in my bag...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
>> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
>> money that way.  
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
>> miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
>>> how much spectrum you want to use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that explains everything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, what size dishes?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
>>> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
>>> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
>>> it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
>>> too, but I assume you know where to get those...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this
>>> case). If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere
>>> around 140Mbps each way.
>>>
>>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Jaime Solorza]

Knobs, switches , buttons and levers!!

Jaime Solorza

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 11:01 AM  wrote:

> Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into
> the back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
> if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
> the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there
>
> out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like
> the aws list?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:
>
>> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
>> believe there is a bulk import.
>> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>>
>> *From:* Carl Peterson
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>
>> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new
>> list?
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>>> steal it away from them.
>>>
>>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>>
>>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says
>>> “in process” or something like that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jaime Solorza]

I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
me...another tool in my bag...

Jaime Solorza

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:

> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
> money that way.  
>
> *From:* Jeremy
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
> miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
>> how much spectrum you want to use.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, that explains everything.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Wow, what size dishes?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
>> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
>> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
>> it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
>> too, but I assume you know where to get those...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
>> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
>> 140Mbps each way.
>>
>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
>> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
>> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
>> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>>
>>
>>
>> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
>> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>
>> or
>>
>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[castarritt]

Those MU-MIMO numbers look pretty weak.  The only one I've seen that bad on
our network turned out to be defective.  What does the VC sounding look
like under stats/radio?  Do you have a bunch of VCs that are un-tracked?

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> This doesn't tell you what group the users are apart of, more about how
> often you are able to group users on the downlink.
>
> https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/450m-slot-grouping-help/
> td-p/71749
>
> 2nd post,
>
> " What the table shows is actually like a "histogram" of how many SMs are
> grouped together, not *which* group the SMs are in.  In your case, about
> 2/3 of the time there are 5 SMs, and 1/3 of the time 4 SMs are grouped
> together.  Occassionally, you get 6 together."
>
>
> Also see the follow up Matt shared: https://community.
> cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/PMP450M-Grouping-Question/td-p/61580
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know
>> how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>>
>> On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my
>> users are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to
>> physically know were most users are located within the sector?�
>>
>> �
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Joe Novak]

This doesn't tell you what group the users are apart of, more about how
often you are able to group users on the downlink.

https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/450m-slot-grouping-help/td-p/71749

2nd post,

" What the table shows is actually like a "histogram" of how many SMs are
grouped together, not *which* group the SMs are in.  In your case, about
2/3 of the time there are 5 SMs, and 1/3 of the time 4 SMs are grouped
together.  Occassionally, you get 6 together."


Also see the follow up Matt shared:
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/PMP450M-Grouping-Question/td-p/61580


Joe

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know
> how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>
> On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my users
> are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to
> physically know were most users are located within the sector?�
>
> �
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Bill Prince]

Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know 
how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.



bp


On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my 
users are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a 
way to physically know were most users are located within the sector?


*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[AFMUG] Fiber blowing y block

[Jon Langeler]

Any recommendations?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

[AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Gino A. Villarini]

On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my users are 
mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to physically 
know were most users are located within the sector?

[cid:61A79637-3867-42F3-8E88-7EE2B8D9793D]



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Paul Stewart]

I’ve done a lot of work with that model in the past and it works very well …. 
Extremely flexible what you can then do for multi-service handoff as well 😉

 

-p

 

From: Af  on behalf of Carl Peterson 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 8, 2018 at 1:52 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

I've been thinking a lot about the flat -> routed transition lately and my 
current thinking is that we over reacted and just went to routers everywhere.  
We have been trimming back a lot and moving to running QinQ over VPLS where 
every sub has their own CVLAN in an SVLAN.  As I get more comfortable with it, 
I'm thinking about expanding it and dropping more of the "core" locations with 
routers.  Instead of A--B--C all with routers, we would drop the router at B 
and just run B with a primary and secondary VPLS circuit, say primary through A 
and secondary through C.  Saves a ton on enclosures, batteries etc.  

 

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell you 
with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing capability) 
that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just fine.  One company I 
consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k routes in OSPF .. seriously … 
and yes they did experience some issues but they were not big enough issues to 
warrant changing til a few years later when they migrated everything to ISIS 
anyways.  That’s the most extreme example and not one I personally recommend 😉

 

As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no “one 
size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed then 
specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers… 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the 
Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a typical 
router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or even something 
smaller like a 2621. 

 

Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks but not 
as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in routing 
platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF. 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess  wrote:

This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in OSPF 
and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.  The number 
of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber connected and 
they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if they do go up down 
quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then yes this can be a 
factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have lots of fiber, and/or 
well connected routers, then that is not a major issue, break part of your 
network and see how long it takes for a reroute, if that is acceptable, then 
again no worries.

 

Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers, but I 
have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks that have 
more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.  

 

However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if there 
is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can use OSPF 
areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a good, constant 
method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind that using defaults 
will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan plan plan…

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Brough Turner
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems? 
Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Gino A. Villarini]

Make that a single radio with a “beeamforming” Omni, radio selects what beam 
subs are in…

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Matt 
Mangriotis 
mailto:matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, June 8, 2018 at 2:17 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

I certainly hoped you filled in the survey!  This is good stuff.

Thanks,
Matt

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Carl 
Peterson
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.





Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topicï¿1Ž2 would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
ï¿1Ž2
Nowï¿1Ž2s you chance to comment and help direct us!
ï¿1Ž2
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info youï¿1Ž2d like.ï¿1Ž2 
Itï¿1Ž2s only 16 questions.
ï¿1Ž2
Matt
ï¿1Ž2
From: Af <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>' <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
ï¿1Ž2
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
ï¿1Ž2
ï¿1Ž2
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
ï¿1Ž2




--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt Mangriotis]

I certainly hoped you filled in the survey!  This is good stuff.

Thanks,
Matt

From: Af  On Behalf Of Carl Peterson
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
�
Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
�
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� It�s 
only 16 questions.
�
Matt
�
From: Af <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>' <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
�
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
�
�
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
�




--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Carl Peterson]

I've been thinking a lot about the flat -> routed transition lately and my
current thinking is that we over reacted and just went to routers
everywhere.  We have been trimming back a lot and moving to running QinQ
over VPLS where every sub has their own CVLAN in an SVLAN.  As I get more
comfortable with it, I'm thinking about expanding it and dropping more of
the "core" locations with routers.  Instead of A--B--C all with routers, we
would drop the router at B and just run B with a primary and secondary VPLS
circuit, say primary through A and secondary through C.  Saves a ton on
enclosures, batteries etc.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell
> you with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing
> capability) that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just
> fine.  One company I consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k
> routes in OSPF .. seriously … and yes they did experience some issues but
> they were not big enough issues to warrant changing til a few years later
> when they migrated everything to ISIS anyways.  That’s the most extreme
> example and not one I personally recommend 😉
>
>
>
> As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no
> “one size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed
> then specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers…
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <
> eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the
> Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a
> typical router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or
> even something smaller like a 2621.
>
>
>
> Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks
> but not as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in
> routing platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
> This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in
> OSPF and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.
> The number of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber
> connected and they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if
> they do go up down quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then
> yes this can be a factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have
> lots of fiber, and/or well connected routers, then that is not a major
> issue, break part of your network and see how long it takes for a reroute,
> if that is acceptable, then again no worries.
>
>
>
> Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers,
> but I have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks
> that have more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.
>
>
>
> However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if
> there is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can
> use OSPF areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a
> good, constant method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind
> that using defaults will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan
> plan plan…
>
>
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Brough Turner
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>
> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
> networks?
> And, if you have had problems, what

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Not that much, in most cases. Canopy PTP450 in 900mhz can use a 20mhz
channel, and do 256qam, but most of the time you're lucky if it even works.
In ideal conditions, I guess it should be able to do 100Mbps or so, but
900mhz rarely works as well as one would hope.

We have a 1.7 mile PTP450 link feeding a micropop, and at present, a link
test is giving me about 40Mbps aggregate. On a good day it'll do better
than that, but when you're going through as many trees as we are there,
signal tends to be all over the place, even with 900mhz.

Personally, I don't see that much value in having backhaul and AP
integrated into the same unit. I'd rather just have an auxiliary PoE out
ethernet port on one or the other, so that you can easily mix and match
different frequencies, and so on.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM,  wrote:

> I wonder how much speed you could get from a 900 radio that uses the whole
> 20 MHz.  If that was the output of the micropop and you kept distances
> short and antenna gains up it would hammer through almost anything.  Say
> 512 QAM.  You could deliver 100 Mbps.  Of course you would be claiming a
> monopoly on the whole band.  Perhaps OFDM might be a better way to go.  Use
> the orthogon method to occupy as much as you can find.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 11:03 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting
> into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a
> point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision,
> you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even
> work with 5ghz at that kind of range.
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
>> And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a
>> thing as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're
>> in the trees.
>>
>> 900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.
>>
>> -Steve D
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:
>>
>>> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Very good question George…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
>>> using
>>> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
>>> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
>>> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
>>> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize
>>> an
>>> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is
>>> that a
>>> > really common situation?  How common?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than
>>> some
>>> > others)…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
>>> 450-based
>>> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>>> >
>>> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
>>> device
>>> > like this help you in your network?
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
>>> like.�
>>> > It�s only 16 questions.
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>>> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
>>> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>>> >
>>> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Join the Conversation
>>> >
>>> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

Oh, input on 900, yes.  
Get the guys in Devon to roll a PTP600 in a 900 MHz version.  

From: Brian Sullivan 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

A neat product (which we couldn't use around here) would be a 5G 450 AP with 
900MHz OFDM PTP built in.  Although you would have to use all the available 
900Mhz spectrum to make it worthwhile.
Perhaps a nLOS 3.65 or LTE PTP combined with 450 AP would work in some areas.


On 6/8/2018 12:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing 
as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the 
trees. 

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

  Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
   wrote:

  > Very good question George…
  >
  >
  >
  > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
  > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
  > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
  > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
  >
  >
  >
  > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
  > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
  > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is 
that a
  > really common situation?  How common?
  >
  >
  >
  > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
  > others)…
  >
  >
  >
  > Matt
  >
  >
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  >
  >
  > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
  > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
  >
  > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
  >
  > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
  > like this help you in your network?
  >
  > �
  >
  > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
  >
  > �
  >
  > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
  > It�s only 16 questions.
  >
  > �
  >
  > Matt
  >
  > �
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
  > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
  > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  > �
  >
  > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
  >
  > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
  >
  > �
  >
  > �
  >
  > Join the Conversation
  >
  > Cambium Networks Community Forum
  >
  > �
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

I wonder how much speed you could get from a 900 radio that uses the whole 20 
MHz.  If that was the output of the micropop and you kept distances short and 
antenna gains up it would hammer through almost anything.  Say 512 QAM.  You 
could deliver 100 Mbps.  Of course you would be claiming a monopoly on the 
whole band.  Perhaps OFDM might be a better way to go.  Use the orthogon method 
to occupy as much as you can find.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:03 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

  And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing as 
"under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the trees. 

  900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

  -Steve D

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
 wrote:

> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Brian Sullivan]

A neat product (which we couldn't use around here) would be a 5G 450 AP 
with 900MHz OFDM PTP built in.  Although you would have to use all the 
available 900Mhz spectrum to make it worthwhile.
Perhaps a nLOS 3.65 or LTE PTP combined with 450 AP would work in some 
areas.


On 6/8/2018 12:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but 
getting into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we 
can get a point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a 
subdivision, you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS 
will sometimes even work with 5ghz at that kind of range.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D <mailto:bigd...@gmail.com>> wrote:


And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such
a thing as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the
trees, you're in the trees.

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
mailto:matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com>> wrote:
> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that
they are using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t
really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high
throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450. Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain
percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but
could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a
neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions
(more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP
survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we
want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic�
would a 450 device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info
you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
    >
> �
>
> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>' mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
<https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting
into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision,
you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even
work with 5ghz at that kind of range.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

> And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing
> as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the
> trees.
>
> 900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:
>
>> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>>  wrote:
>> > Very good question George…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
>> using
>> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
>> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
>> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
>> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
>> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is
>> that a
>> > really common situation?  How common?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
>> > others)…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
>> 450-based
>> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>> >
>> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>> >
>> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
>> device
>> > like this help you in your network?
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
>> > It�s only 16 questions.
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
>> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>> >
>> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Join the Conversation
>> >
>> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into the 
back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in the 
event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there 

out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like the aws 
list?




On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

  I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
  It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

  From: Carl Peterson 
  Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

  So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal 
it away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




  -- 

  Carl Peterson


  PORT NETWORKS

  401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

  Baltimore, MD 21202

  (410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

A 450 translator would be a cool device. 
5G in and some other frequency out.  

Essentially an SM and AP in one box.  

SM circuit for the backhaul, AP for the micropop.  Maintains timing etc.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new. 
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge. 

Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.

Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years) 


For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.  


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.


  On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com On Behalf Of Ray Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP 

�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

�







-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked 
“freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of money 
that way.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19 
miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how 
much spectrum you want to use.



  Rory 



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Well, that explains everything.



  From: Chris Fabien 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!



  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

Wow, what size dishes?



From: Chris Fabien 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in 
both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 



On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.



The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  



If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?



From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM

    To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).



An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??



  From: Mathew Howard 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM

  To: af 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).





  Error! Filename not specified.









  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW

or

AF5X + AF-5G34-S45



?



Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Jay Weekley]

I added up around 15 different models of radios that we may run into 
during a day.  The van gets crowded.


Colin Stanners wrote:
In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 
5ghz 430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of 
radio models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, 
existing customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in 
different areas. At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works 
on the same reflector dishes, that is a lifesaver.


We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in 
addition to van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / 
SNMP / standards which would require re-training everyone (there's a 
lot of "cabling" guys who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't 
seem to work too well on dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a
450 device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
like.� It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

*From:* Af  <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>
*On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>' 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>


�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>

�





<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Paul Stewart]

Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell you 
with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing capability) 
that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just fine.  One company I 
consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k routes in OSPF .. seriously … 
and yes they did experience some issues but they were not big enough issues to 
warrant changing til a few years later when they migrated everything to ISIS 
anyways.  That’s the most extreme example and not one I personally recommend 😉

 

As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no “one 
size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed then 
specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers… 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the 
Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a typical 
router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or even something 
smaller like a 2621. 

 

Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks but not 
as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in routing 
platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF. 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess  wrote:

This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in OSPF 
and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.  The number 
of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber connected and 
they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if they do go up down 
quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then yes this can be a 
factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have lots of fiber, and/or 
well connected routers, then that is not a major issue, break part of your 
network and see how long it takes for a reroute, if that is acceptable, then 
again no worries.

 

Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers, but I 
have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks that have 
more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.  

 

However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if there 
is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can use OSPF 
areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a good, constant 
method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind that using defaults 
will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan plan plan…

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Brough Turner
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems? 
Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Steve Jones]

if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there

out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like the
aws list?



On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
> believe there is a bulk import.
> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>
> *From:* Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>
>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>> steal it away from them.
>>
>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>
>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in
>> process” or something like that.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Carl Peterson]

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock
your vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the
Electrical space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea
what ePMP reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for
10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC
input, an SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE
out would be nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support
20-30 subs with a form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu
with a two 48V runs up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] EPMP Force 200, Buy only the Radio

[Nate Burke]

We're getting enough F200 radios in the air now that we are starting to 
have some failures, mostly storm related.  We just change the radio 
unit, since alignment is all done.  So I'm ending up with all these F200 
dish parts sitting on the shelf that have no use.  Is anyone selling 
just the F200 radio unit?

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Dave]

Have you seen the Force 200 radios :)
Our guys love em for our 2 little micro-pops using epmp1000 sectors
Fixing to have to look at higher capacity at one of the micropops


On 06/08/2018 11:22 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 
5ghz 430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of 
radio models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, 
existing customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in 
different areas. At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works 
on the same reflector dishes, that is a lifesaver.


We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in 
addition to van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / 
SNMP / standards which would require re-training everyone (there's a 
lot of "cabling" guys who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't 
seem to work too well on dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a
450 device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
like.� It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

*From:* Af  <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>
*On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>' 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>


�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>

�






--

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jeremy]

I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how
> much spectrum you want to use.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Well, that explains everything.
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>
> Wow, what size dishes?
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>
>
>
> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>
>
>
> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
> pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
> but I assume you know where to get those...
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down
> ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>
>
>
> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
> 140Mbps each way.
>
> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>
>
>
> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>
> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>
>
>
>
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>
> or
>
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Colin Stanners]

In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 5ghz
430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of radio
models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, existing
customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in different areas.
At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works on the same reflector
dishes, that is a lifesaver.

We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in addition to
van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / SNMP / standards
which would require re-training everyone (there's a lot of "cabling" guys
who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't seem to work too well on
dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Steve D]

And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing
as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the
trees.

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>  wrote:
> > Very good question George…
> >
> >
> >
> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
> using
> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
> >
> >
> >
> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that
> a
> > really common situation?  How common?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> > others)…
> >
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
> >
> >
> >
> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based
> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
> >
> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
> >
> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device
> > like this help you in your network?
> >
> > �
> >
> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
> >
> > �
> >
> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> > It�s only 16 questions.
> >
> > �
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > �
> >
> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
> >
> > �
> >
> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> >
> > �
> >
> > �
> >
> > Join the Conversation
> >
> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
> >
> > �
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

  It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

  I have mailman hired to host.  

  I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Carl Peterson]

So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal
> it away from them.
>
> I have mailman hired to host.
>
> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in
> process” or something like that.
>



-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt]

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
 wrote:
> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, it is very common to not able to complete an install with 5ghz because
of foliage, and we have done exactly that in several areas (using ePMP, in
our case).

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis <
matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com> wrote:

> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
> using the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have
> an option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Simple reason.. 

The need to deliver Next Gen level of Internet Service BW. 
(50meg/100meg/150meg/200meg/300meg + ) on a per client basis. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "George Skorup" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:47:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

>> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device
>> like this help you in your network?

>> �

>> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

>> �

>> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
>> It�s
>> only 16 questions.

>> �

>> Matt

>> �

>> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>> To: ' af@afmug.com ' 
>> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

>> �

>> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP

>> �

>> �

>> Join the Conversation

>> Cambium Networks Community Forum

>> �

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt Mangriotis]

Very good question George...

I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are using the 
same equipment throughout the network, and we don't really have an option right 
now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput extension of the 
network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc...

Really wondering if many folks can't complete a certain percentage of installs 
due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an "under the 
canopy" type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a really common 
situation?  How common?

Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys' opinions (more than some 
others)...

Matt

From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
�
Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
�
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� It�s 
only 16 questions.
�
Matt
�
From: Af <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>' <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
�
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
�
�
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

I could see somebody that has an all 450 network wanting something like
that, but since we have no 450 (other than 900mhz... ), I'd have no use for
such a thing.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Bill Prince]

I think we all started with really flat networks, and I think of them 
the same way as Chuck; all L2 accessible. One subnet. That really only 
works for about 200-250 subscribers, and then you are done.


If you've got 10, 100, or 1000 routes in an OSPF design, you are not 
really "flat" except by OSPF standards, you might be in the same area. 
There's still a lot of routing going on.



bp


On 6/7/2018 5:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.
That is what I did with my first Canopy system.
Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our 
core.� We started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

Now watching evpn as the next step..
From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 


Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has 
one of the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went 
MPLS to deal with a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. 
But maybe Gino can speak up on the issue.
Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider 
iBGP and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big 
determining factor for me for such things is the occurrence route 
flapping and how often it happens. Route flapping will be the big 
indicator that you are to big and OSPF can't keep up. You can do some 
tweaking but at some point it just all falls apart. The bad part about 
waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of customers trying 
to make things stable again.
I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to 
take and I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably 
money well spent.


*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a
router per building. I am concerned that, without paying
attention, we have grown to 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one
OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of routers from
CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but
I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat
OSPF networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. � Free your Broadband!
Mobile: 617-285-0433  Skype:� brough
netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/>| Google+
<https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> |
Twitter <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | Blog
<http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal website
<http://broughturner.com/>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Steve Jones]

cause the operator is trying to get off meth and figure if they waste all
their money buying more AP than is required they wont have any money for
the crank

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[George Skorup]

Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.


On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device like this help you in your network?


Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
It�s only 16 questions.


Matt

*From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com' 
*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP 
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0> 



Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum 
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>

[AFMUG] Underbed truck boxes for small POP enclosure

[Eric Kuhnke]

If anyone has modified an underbody truck box for a small POP - can you
share some photos?  Looking at a few different 24" and 36" width models now
with gasketed door.

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, nightmare...

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

He's talking about having all routers in OSPF area 0, not a truly flat L2 
broadcast-domain nightmare. 


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.  
  That is what I did with my first Canopy system.  
  Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.  

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

  Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.  We 
started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

  Now watching evpn as the next step..

  From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 

  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?


  Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal with 
a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can speak up 
on the issue.  
  Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP 
and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor 
for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it 
happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and OSPF 
can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all falls 
apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of 
customers trying to make things stable again.
  I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.




Gino A. Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 



  On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Eric Kuhnke]

He's talking about having all routers in OSPF area 0, not a truly flat L2
broadcast-domain nightmare.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.
> That is what I did with my first Canopy system.
> Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
> Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.
> We started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.
>
> Now watching evpn as the next step..
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman <
> lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
> Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one
> of the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to
> deal with a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino
> can speak up on the issue.
> Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP
> and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining
> factor for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how
> often it happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to
> big and OSPF can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it
> just all falls apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you
> will loose a lot of customers trying to make things stable again.
> I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take
> and I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well
> spent.
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:
>
>> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
>> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
>> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
>> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
>> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
>> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
>> networks?
>> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brough
>>
>> Brough Turner
>> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
>> Mobile:  617-285-0433 <(617)%20285-0433>   Skype:  brough
>> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Google+
>> <https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | Blog
>> <http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal website
>> <http://broughturner.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Josh Baird]

But you are still running MPLS on top of some IGP (OSPF, etc)?

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:47 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.
> We started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.
>
> Now watching evpn as the next step..
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman <
> lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
> Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one
> of the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to
> deal with a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino
> can speak up on the issue.
> Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP
> and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining
> factor for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how
> often it happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to
> big and OSPF can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it
> just all falls apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you
> will loose a lot of customers trying to make things stable again.
> I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take
> and I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well
> spent.
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:
>
>> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
>> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
>> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
>> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
>> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
>> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
>> networks?
>> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brough
>>
>> Brough Turner
>> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
>> Mobile:  617-285-0433 <(617)%20285-0433>   Skype:  brough
>> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Google+
>> <https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | Blog
>> <http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal website
>> <http://broughturner.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Chuck McCown]

To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.  
That is what I did with my first Canopy system.  
Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.  We 
started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

Now watching evpn as the next step..

From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 

Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?


Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal with 
a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can speak up 
on the issue.  
Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP and 
break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor for 
me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it happens. 
Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and OSPF can't 
keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all falls apart. 
The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of 
customers trying to make things stable again.
I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.



  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

  We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

  Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
  And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

  Thanks,
  Brough

  Brough Turner
  netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
  Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
  netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.  We 
started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

Now watching evpn as the next step..

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Lewis 
Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal with 
a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can speak up 
on the issue.
Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP and 
break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor for 
me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it happens. 
Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and OSPF can't 
keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all falls apart. 
The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of 
customers trying to make things stable again.
I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.




Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner 
mailto:bro...@netblazr.com>> wrote:
We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc.<http://www.netblazr.com/> | 
Google+<https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | 
Twitter<https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | 
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | 
Blog<http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal 
website<http://broughturner.com/>

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[Robert Andrews]

ess

On 06/07/2018 02:20 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

He did die.  Couple of years ago.

Wife # 7(?) and an unethical estate attorney carried on the fight (along 
with about a dozen other attorneys).
Aided of course by all the 30 something middle managers that were slid 
into the positions vacated after the massacre 4.5 years ago.


I say she is unethical because she was recently sanctioned by the Utah 
Supreme Court for being unethical.  So not gonna worry about putting 
that out there...  'tis neither slander nor libel.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

When the bastard dies

On 06/07/2018 01:01 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a 
few months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then 
sell the movie rights for big money?

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Eric Kuhnke]

Purpose built fiber mapping tools with a SQL database backend definitely do
exist - but you're looking at license costs that are prohibitive for all
but the biggest ISPs. The sort of money for which you could hire a full
time splicer and equip a splicing trailer + its operating costs...

Autodesk's municipal GIS product, which is the main competitor to
ArcGIS/ESRI, I believe has several plugins and third party vendors which
offer solutions for fiber mapping, and more specifically underground
utilities.




On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Steve D  wrote:

> I just realized that last message was more a rambling trip through
> nostalgia versus anything useful for the OP or others looking at this
> software.
>
> GIS software in general is probably very well suited to fiber mapping and
> most of it very database driven.  Oil&Gas, Forestry, Mining all make use of
> this sort of software big time.  There probably exist "purpose" built tools
> as others have mentioned on here, but a more "general" piece of GIS
> software like this has the benefit of being able to handle whatever you
> want to throw at it, at the expense of making it a bit more complicated to
> get setup.
>
> Long term though, you'll have something that can scale.  If down the road,
> for whatever reason, you need to work with another company or government,
> being able to be "here, this is what we have" in a shapefile (or whatever
> format) they'll really appreciate it.  Likewise, you might get data from
> another entity and be able to easily merge it in with your own.
>
> Anyway, my two cents.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 2:05 PM Steve D  wrote:
>
>> You know I have to say, I have not given QGIS a fair shake in over 10
>> years.  I gave it a download last night and it's not the weak, completely
>> unfinished, seemingly dead piece of open source software I played with back
>> in 2005/2006.  Around that time, as part of a part-time job/college
>> project/whatever thing, I was working on a Shapefile to PostGIS tool and
>> relied on a lot of the work QGIS had already done, but only because we had
>> no desire to work with QGIS itself (and at that time, ESRI made no bones
>> about having nothing to do with OSS software - a very Microsoft attitude).
>> When I finished college and moved on to new full time work at a couple of
>> places, I never gave it a close look again.  First working with ARCGIS
>> (spoiled me) then onto other programs, such as Pathloss, GlobalMapper, and
>> so forth.  So when I say QGIS, at a glance, looks pretty damn good, I mean
>> it.  It certainly has the gears in my head turning about what I can do with
>> it next.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:32 AM Brian Webster 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sterling,
>>>
>>> The QGIS software is well suited for what you want and
>>> you can spin up an instance of PostgreSQL/PostGIS database for all the data
>>> and have the mapping interface directly to the database and without too
>>> much other work the mapping can be web enabled such that the data is
>>> accessible on other devices. I would be willing to help you set something
>>> like this up. It’s not too bad to do if someone already have a Google Earth
>>> file and/or spreadsheet established for their existing information. That
>>> can be imported and used to start the whole system. Software cost is nil,
>>> time is your other investment and paying me if you want some help in that
>>> regard. If you already have someone who is good with relational databases
>>> then your learning curve is not as steep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>
>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling
>>> Jacobson
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:13 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I really want, if it exists, is a full layer system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Such that I can enter my GIS info for conduit and conduit capacity and
>>> used capacity on the physical level, then the fiber type/count in each
>>> section by geo on top of that, then the splice points/case map and power
>>> readings on top of that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then the networ

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Eric Kuhnke]

Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the
Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a
typical router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or
even something smaller like a 2621.

Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks but
not as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in routing
platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF.



On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in
> OSPF and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.
> The number of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber
> connected and they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if
> they do go up down quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then
> yes this can be a factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have
> lots of fiber, and/or well connected routers, then that is not a major
> issue, break part of your network and see how long it takes for a reroute,
> if that is acceptable, then again no worries.
>
>
>
> Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers,
> but I have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks
> that have more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.
>
>
>
> However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if
> there is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can
> use OSPF areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a
> good, constant method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind
> that using defaults will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan
> plan plan…
>
>
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Brough Turner
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>
> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
> networks?
> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Google+
> <https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | Blog
> <http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal website
> <http://broughturner.com/>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[chuck]

He did die.  Couple of years ago.

Wife # 7(?) and an unethical estate attorney carried on the fight (along 
with about a dozen other attorneys).
Aided of course by all the 30 something middle managers that were slid into 
the positions vacated after the massacre 4.5 years ago.


I say she is unethical because she was recently sanctioned by the Utah 
Supreme Court for being unethical.  So not gonna worry about putting that 
out there...  'tis neither slander nor libel.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

When the bastard dies

On 06/07/2018 01:01 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell 
the movie rights for big money?

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[chuck]

No expiration.  But I am sure there would not be big money either...

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell
the movie rights for big money? 

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Dennis Burgess]

This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in OSPF 
and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.  The number 
of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber connected and 
they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if they do go up down 
quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then yes this can be a 
factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have lots of fiber, and/or 
well connected routers, then that is not a major issue, break part of your 
network and see how long it takes for a reroute, if that is acceptable, then 
again no worries.

Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers, but I 
have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks that have 
more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.

However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if there 
is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can use OSPF 
areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a good, constant 
method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind that using defaults 
will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan plan plan…

Just my two cents.



Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: Af  On Behalf Of Brough Turner
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc.<http://www.netblazr.com/> | 
Google+<https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en> | 
Twitter<https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | 
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner> | 
Blog<http://blogs.broughturner.com/> | Personal 
website<http://broughturner.com/>

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[Robert Andrews]

When the bastard dies

On 06/07/2018 01:01 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a 
few months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell 
the movie rights for big money?

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[Seth Mattinen]

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell 
the movie rights for big money?

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Mark Radabaugh]

As long as it’s stable you are nowhere near the limits of OSPF as a IGP, and 
there are a number of fairly simple ways to start to segment the network when 
you start to reach the limits.   OSPF itself is fine but during network 
instability situations you may run into issues with CPU on some of the 
underpowered routers which leads to further instability.   Overlays of MPLS, 
VLAN’s, or just OSPF areas can address the issues if you do want to start 
cutting the size down.

Mark

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
> the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal 
> with a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can 
> speak up on the issue. 
> Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP 
> and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor 
> for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it 
> happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and 
> OSPF can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all 
> falls apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a 
> lot of customers trying to make things stable again.
> I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
> I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.
> 
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  > wrote:
> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 
> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse 
> mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF 
> problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but 
> I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
> 
> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
> networks?
> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems? 
> Thanks,
> Brough
> 
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc.  | Google+ 
>  | Twitter 
>  | LinkedIn 
>  | Facebook 
>  | Blog 
>  | Personal website 
>  
> 
>  

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Lewis Bergman]

Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one
of the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to
deal with a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino
can speak up on the issue.
Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP
and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining
factor for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how
often it happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to
big and OSPF can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it
just all falls apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you
will loose a lot of customers trying to make things stable again.
I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well
spent.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>
> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
> networks?
> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433 <(617)%20285-0433>   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc.  | Google+
>  | Twitter
>  | LinkedIn
>  | Facebook
>  | Blog
>  | Personal website
> 
>
>
>

[AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Brough Turner]

 We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc.  | Google+
 | Twitter
 | LinkedIn
 | Facebook
 | Blog
 | Personal website

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Chuck McCown]

I have found that the more you start a sentence with “can you help me” the 
better it is.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 12:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I agree that those are the items to focus on with OSHA.


  Item 1:
  "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."

Except that is incorrect.  The person who fell WAS a competent person.  He held 
a “Competent Climber” certification card from CITCA.  A significant portion of 
that training includes assessing if a tower is safe to climb in accordance with 
OSHAs rules.  A competent person is not a structural engineer.  A competent 
person is someone who has been trained on assessing if a tower is safe to climb 
in accordance with OSHAs rules.

  Item 2:
  "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
properly used".

A policy was in place.  The person knew how to use it properly and was required 
by company policy to follow it.  Our Employee Handbook states under “Guidelines 
for Conduct” that “The following kinds of conduct are absolutely prohibited: … 
Violation of any and all safety rules.”  At some point, there needs to be 
personal accountability.

I agree that being humble and asking for help and guidance is the best 
approach, so I’ll show them what we’ve done up til now and see what they 
suggest for improvement.

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net


 


  On Jun 6, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:



  In reading this citation there are two phrases which I think get to the meat 
of what the person writing the citation intended:

  Item 1:
  "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."
  Item 2:
  "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
properly used".

  I've bolded what I consider the two most relevant words.   The question I'd 
be asking is what policies were actually in place at the time of the accident, 
and what was the ramifications to the employee if they didn't follow them.
Evidently providing safety gear isn't enough, the employer is responsible to 
make sure that employees actually use them.   If you had policies in place that 
required the use of the gear, and took affirmative action when an employee was 
caught violating the policies, and have now re-verified that the gear met the 
requirements, I'd go back to OSHA and ask them, what you could have done 
differently considering you've done everything correctly.

  Go into it with the mindset that if you screwed up you're going to have to 
pay these fines (or at least what you can negotiate them down to), and that you 
really want to learn what you did to screw up.   If the answer is that you did 
everything right, it will be hard for them to continue with the fines.   If 
they find you did something wrong then talk to them about how to fix it.   I've 
heard story after story like this (fortunately never had to deal with it 
myself), and it seems that a learning/compliant attitude goes a long way toward 
them being willing to drop or decrease the fines.   I'm not saying to not 
correct incorrect information (such as the rohn 25 load rating), but instead to 
take what they say and try to understand whether or not you needed to make a 
correction.

  Be mindful that the people who work for OSHA have the job to make the 
workplace safer, and I'm sure that after a workplace death they feel like there 
should be something that could have been done differently.  Hopefully they'll 
come to the realization that you were doing everything you should have been 
doing, and that you've also learned a couple things which you can do above and 
beyond that, and as a result, the fine is dropped or reduced significantly.

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be d

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[David Sovereen]

I agree that those are the items to focus on with OSHA.

> Item 1:
> "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."

Except that is incorrect.  The person who fell WAS a competent person.  He held 
a “Competent Climber” certification card from CITCA.  A significant portion of 
that training includes assessing if a tower is safe to climb in accordance with 
OSHAs rules.  A competent person is not a structural engineer.  A competent 
person is someone who has been trained on assessing if a tower is safe to climb 
in accordance with OSHAs rules.

> Item 2:
> "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
> properly used".

A policy was in place.  The person knew how to use it properly and was required 
by company policy to follow it.  Our Employee Handbook states under “Guidelines 
for Conduct” that “The following kinds of conduct are absolutely prohibited: … 
Violation of any and all safety rules.”  At some point, there needs to be 
personal accountability.

I agree that being humble and asking for help and guidance is the best 
approach, so I’ll show them what we’ve done up til now and see what they 
suggest for improvement.

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone  |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring
 
david.sover...@mercury.net 
www.mercury.net 



> On Jun 6, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> In reading this citation there are two phrases which I think get to the meat 
> of what the person writing the citation intended:
> 
> Item 1:
> "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."
> Item 2:
> "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
> properly used".
> 
> I've bolded what I consider the two most relevant words.   The question I'd 
> be asking is what policies were actually in place at the time of the 
> accident, and what was the ramifications to the employee if they didn't 
> follow them.Evidently providing safety gear isn't enough, the employer is 
> responsible to make sure that employees actually use them.   If you had 
> policies in place that required the use of the gear, and took affirmative 
> action when an employee was caught violating the policies, and have now 
> re-verified that the gear met the requirements, I'd go back to OSHA and ask 
> them, what you could have done differently considering you've done everything 
> correctly.
> 
> Go into it with the mindset that if you screwed up you're going to have to 
> pay these fines (or at least what you can negotiate them down to), and that 
> you really want to learn what you did to screw up.   If the answer is that 
> you did everything right, it will be hard for them to continue with the 
> fines.   If they find you did something wrong then talk to them about how to 
> fix it.   I've heard story after story like this (fortunately never had to 
> deal with it myself), and it seems that a learning/compliant attitude goes a 
> long way toward them being willing to drop or decrease the fines.   I'm not 
> saying to not correct incorrect information (such as the rohn 25 load 
> rating), but instead to take what they say and try to understand whether or 
> not you needed to make a correction.
> 
> Be mindful that the people who work for OSHA have the job to make the 
> workplace safer, and I'm sure that after a workplace death they feel like 
> there should be something that could have been done differently.  Hopefully 
> they'll come to the realization that you were doing everything you should 
> have been doing, and that you've also learned a couple things which you can 
> do above and beyond that, and as a result, the fine is dropped or reduced 
> significantly.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  > wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
> Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
> protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
> protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put 
> his harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it 
> anyway.  He slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead 
> about an hour later at the hospital.
> 
> We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
> me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 
> lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He 
> says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
> trying to come up with reasons to fine us.
> 
> When I went through safe 

[AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt Mangriotis]

I would really like to get your opinions on this topic... would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?

Now's you chance to comment and help direct us!

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you'd like.  It's only 
16 questions.

Matt

From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FCambiumMicroPOP&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=7aHYkUIK8iAtm5Ts1YCE%2FLLJ%2FzECLwvbZNKJiyGadBM%3D&reserved=0>


Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.cambiumnetworks.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C6ac0c68b97df41f5dced08d5cc887554%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C636639808818666972&sdata=zVIylhA0cHbXHB%2FaAsuU37Boya5seZpjnCbKVlYYt14%3D&reserved=0>

[AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Ray Savich]

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP


Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community Forum