Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Faisal Imtiaz]

We can discuss this to the infinite level of What if and cover all different 
scenarios...

Times are changing... Is one technology more reliable than other... is open 
to discussion, 
reality is that in today world the answer would involve words such as ' it 
depends ' .

I was not presenting a position in regards to one or the other..

I was just pointing out that there is a 'Compliance' Requirement, and then 
there is a
"Perception" of what that compliance requirement is  

And it is not uncommon to have a big 'gap' between the two... :)


Regards

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 10:50:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

> As long as someone answers the phone it is serving its purpose.  Most of
> them have an autodialer so I presume they all go to an alarm company.
> 
> But the underlying question is: what technology is most likely to work
> during an emergency?
> 
> Say a 911 scenario, cell phone base tech will not work.  Perhaps all
> wireless would be iffy.  Good copper, in duct, under the streets works in
> almost all conditions.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 6:42 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> 
> Correct... I am not sure what is the logic and regulations behind that
> 
> Just stating what the underlying facts are in our neck of the woods...
> 
> and  Was addressing the un-said assumption that the Phone inside the
> elevator is somehow used to deal with 911/fire etc type emergencies It
> only dial out to the manned 'elevator monitoring service'
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 
> - Original Message -----
>> From: "Seth Mattinen" <se...@rollernet.us>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 12:25:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> 
>> On 2/23/17 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>>The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code
>>> requirement(That is the fire alarm button is for).
>>
>>
>> Of all the alarm buttons I've ever pressed in elevators, they just ring
> > a bell/alarm while pressed and that's it. Useful for Morse code though.

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[chuck]

As long as someone answers the phone it is serving its purpose.  Most of 
them have an autodialer so I presume they all go to an alarm company.


But the underlying question is: what technology is most likely to work 
during an emergency?


Say a 911 scenario, cell phone base tech will not work.  Perhaps all 
wireless would be iffy.  Good copper, in duct, under the streets works in 
almost all conditions.


-Original Message- 
From: Faisal Imtiaz

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 6:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Correct... I am not sure what is the logic and regulations behind that

Just stating what the underlying facts are in our neck of the woods...

and  Was addressing the un-said assumption that the Phone inside the 
elevator is somehow used to deal with 911/fire etc type emergencies It 
only dial out to the manned 'elevator monitoring service'



Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -

From: "Seth Mattinen" <se...@rollernet.us>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 12:25:05 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines



On 2/23/17 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:


   The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code
requirement(That is the fire alarm button is for).



Of all the alarm buttons I've ever pressed in elevators, they just ring
a bell/alarm while pressed and that's it. Useful for Morse code though. 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Correct... I am not sure what is the logic and regulations behind that

Just stating what the underlying facts are in our neck of the woods...

and  Was addressing the un-said assumption that the Phone inside the elevator 
is somehow used to deal with 911/fire etc type emergencies It only dial out 
to the manned 'elevator monitoring service'


Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: "Seth Mattinen" <se...@rollernet.us>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 12:25:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

> On 2/23/17 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code
>> requirement(That is the fire alarm button is for).
> 
> 
> Of all the alarm buttons I've ever pressed in elevators, they just ring
> a bell/alarm while pressed and that's it. Useful for Morse code though.

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Carlos Alcantar]

I feel what's starting to be difficult about providing pots from the CO, 
besides copper plant that is falling apart.  Is the fact that a lot of the 
equipment that is providing this dial tone from the CO is now end of life no 
longer made and self spared and just about zero development, and in a lot of 
cases equipment vendors are no longer in existence eg. nortel.  These alarm 
companies have been quite slow at migrating to new technologies, there is def 
room for disruption there.




Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com<mailto:car...@race.com> / 
http://www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Seth Mattinen <se...@rollernet.us>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:25:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

On 2/23/17 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>
>The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code
> requirement(That is the fire alarm button is for).


Of all the alarm buttons I've ever pressed in elevators, they just ring
a bell/alarm while pressed and that's it. Useful for Morse code though.

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/23/17 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:


   The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code
requirement(That is the fire alarm button is for).



Of all the alarm buttons I've ever pressed in elevators, they just ring 
a bell/alarm while pressed and that's it. Useful for Morse code though.

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I will not argue with that 

The only point I want to make is .. 
Contrary to popular belief... 
The Phone Line in the Elevator is not a Fire code requirement(That is the 
fire alarm button is for). 

The elevator phone line is typically, fixed dial to the Elevator Management 
Company Call Center.. 

:) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:54:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

> There are national fire codes that most jurisdictions adopt.
> Same as the NEC etc.
> Irrespective of actual ordinances, the alarm companies are the ones setting 
> the
> standards if no one else is. I have been on both sides of this arguments when
> doing installs. If I am the regulated ILEC I raise holy hell if they don’t 
> want
> my line. If I am the unregulated wisp or FTTH provider I raise holy hell in
> defying them to prove that my ATA or ONT is not good enough and that their 
> pots
> comes from the equivalent technology out in that box along the highway.
> I am flexible.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:49 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> Chuck,
> I have to disagree with you on part of your statement
> Local ordinances vary from region to region
> Fire Alarms ... are very particular, and require TWO POTS phone lines (at
> least in our region)... nothing else is acceptable
> Elevators ... no such requirement... the Emergency phone is typically auto 
> call
> to the Maint Company.. most places do not have any specified requirements 
> other
> than ... it needs a phone line. (it is not a free dial phone, you cannot
> call 911 on it for example... )
> I cannot speak for bank vaults :)
> Regards.
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:46:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

>> Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
>> companies
>> want them too. Especially for the fire alarm panel.
>> Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
>> get,
>> especially if it comes directly from the central office. But even if coming
>> from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out. I understand
>> why code requires it, and I somewhat agree. VOIP, ATA, WISP even FTTH ONT
>> circuits will not be as reliable.
>> From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>> Yes, check local ordinances.
>> Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it
>> relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of
>> hours.
>> I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way. Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
>> the
>> letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS? Who reboots 
>> the
>> ATA if it's locked up? etc. The POTS line has no components outside of the 
>> CO,
>> and the CO is maintained by the LEC.
>> Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
>> the
>> one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call for
>> help?
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

>>> Need to check with your local ordinances...
>>> In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
>>> required...
>>> (they confuse it with a dedicated line)
>>> We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).
>>> Regards.
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>>> From: "Dave" < dmilho...@wletc.com >
>>>> To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com >
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
>>>> Su

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Brett A Mansfield]

We need a like button for this. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> There are national fire codes that most jurisdictions adopt. 
> Same as the NEC etc. 
>  
> Irrespective of actual ordinances, the alarm companies are the ones setting 
> the standards if no one else is.  I have been on both sides of this arguments 
> when doing installs.  If I am the regulated ILEC I raise holy hell if they 
> don’t want my line.  If I am the unregulated wisp or FTTH provider I raise 
> holy hell in defying them to prove that my ATA or ONT is not good enough and 
> that their pots comes from the equivalent technology out in that box along 
> the highway. 
>  
> I am flexible.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:49 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>  
> Chuck, 
>  
> I have to disagree with you on part of your statement
>  
> Local ordinances vary from region to region 
>  
> Fire Alarms  ... are very particular, and require TWO  POTS phone lines 
> (at least in our region)... nothing else is acceptable
>  
> Elevators ... no such requirement... the Emergency phone is typically auto 
> call to the Maint Company.. most places do not have any specified 
> requirements other than ... it needs a phone line. (it is not a free dial 
> phone, you cannot call 911 on it for example... )
>  
> I cannot speak for bank vaults  :)
>  
> Regards.
>  
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>  
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:46:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
> companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.
>  
> Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
> get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
> coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
> understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
> FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable.
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>  
> Yes, check local ordinances.
> Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
> relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
> hours.
>  
> I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
> the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who 
> reboots the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components 
> outside of the CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.
>  
> Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
> the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
> for help?
>  
>  
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>  
> Need to check with your local ordinances...
>  
> In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
> required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line)
>  
> We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).
>  
> Regards.
>  
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>  
> From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
> To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE 
> TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
> gone. 
> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain caveats 
> in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

There are national fire codes that most jurisdictions adopt.  
Same as the NEC etc.  

Irrespective of actual ordinances, the alarm companies are the ones setting the 
standards if no one else is.  I have been on both sides of this arguments when 
doing installs.  If I am the regulated ILEC I raise holy hell if they don’t 
want my line.  If I am the unregulated wisp or FTTH provider I raise holy hell 
in defying them to prove that my ATA or ONT is not good enough and that their 
pots comes from the equivalent technology out in that box along the highway.  

I am flexible.



From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Chuck, 


I have to disagree with you on part of your statement


Local ordinances vary from region to region 


Fire Alarms  ... are very particular, and require TWO  POTS phone lines (at 
least in our region)... nothing else is acceptable


Elevators ... no such requirement... the Emergency phone is typically auto call 
to the Maint Company.. most places do not have any specified requirements other 
than ... it needs a phone line. (it is not a free dial phone, you cannot 
call 911 on it for example... )


I cannot speak for bank vaults  :)


Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:46:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.

  Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable. 

  From: Adam Moffett

  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
  To: af@afmug.com

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Yes, check local ordinances.
  Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
hours.

  I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who reboots 
the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components outside of the 
CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC. 

  Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
for help?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Need to check with your local ordinances...

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line)

We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net





  From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
  To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that 
HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
  I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
gone. 
  A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
  to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
  A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Chuck, 

I have to disagree with you on part of your statement 

Local ordinances vary from region to region 

Fire Alarms ... are very particular, and require TWO POTS phone lines (at 
least in our region)... nothing else is acceptable 

Elevators ... no such requirement... the Emergency phone is typically auto call 
to the Maint Company.. most places do not have any specified requirements other 
than ... it needs a phone line. (it is not a free dial phone, you cannot 
call 911 on it for example... ) 

I cannot speak for bank vaults :) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:46:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

> Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm companies
> want them too. Especially for the fire alarm panel.
> Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
> get,
> especially if it comes directly from the central office. But even if coming
> from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out. I understand
> why code requires it, and I somewhat agree. VOIP, ATA, WISP even FTTH ONT
> circuits will not be as reliable.
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> Yes, check local ordinances.
> Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it
> relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of
> hours.
> I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way. Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
> the
> letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS? Who reboots the
> ATA if it's locked up? etc. The POTS line has no components outside of the CO,
> and the CO is maintained by the LEC.
> Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
> the
> one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call for
> help?
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

>> Need to check with your local ordinances...
>> In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
>> required...
>> (they confuse it with a dedicated line)
>> We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).
>> Regards.
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Dave" < dmilho...@wletc.com >
>>> To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com >
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

>>> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE 
>>> TO
>>> HAVE a quote "Hardline".
>>> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
>>> gone.
>>> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their
>>> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
>>> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
>>> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
>>> caveats in
>>> place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.

>>> --

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Ken Hohhof]

Here in Illinois, threatening to complain to the state utility regulator is
not much of a threat.  The state can't pay its bills and is in its 3rd year
without a budget.  Fining telcos for failing to provide service is not at
the top of the agenda.

Maybe Utah is different.

Oh, and another obstacle to getting a POTS line can be the cost to bury a
line to your house, if it's new construction set back several hundred feet
from the road.  And then bury a new one when somebody oops cuts it.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Most customers are within the boundary of a Local Exchange Carrier with a
Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity issued by the state public
utilitity regulators.  And, they are typically the COLR or POLR  Provider
(Carrier) Of Last Resort.  Being such they cannot refuse to provide a POTS
line.

Where was the location that a POLR did not exist?  Almost all of Utah has a
POLR.  The only places open, don't have any people living in them, like out
in the desert on BLM land.

-Original Message-
From: Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

They don't require a computer anymore.

I have some customers with POTS lines that have had far more issues than any
of my magicJack customers.

If you can get a POTS line for only $20/mo the that would be great, but this
customer didn't have that option.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Seth Mattinen <se...@rollernet.us> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault 
>> or burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack 
>> or a good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?
>
>
> Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Brett A Mansfield]

This was a business on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley. They could get 
CenturyLink, but it wouldn't have been built out in time though. 

I don't provide them with internet service or anything of the sort. I'm their 
outsourced IT department.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> Most customers are within the boundary of a Local Exchange Carrier with a 
> Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity issued by the state public 
> utilitity regulators.  And, they are typically the COLR or POLR  Provider 
> (Carrier) Of Last Resort.  Being such they cannot refuse to provide a POTS 
> line.
> 
> Where was the location that a POLR did not exist?  Almost all of Utah has a 
> POLR.  The only places open, don't have any people living in them, like out 
> in the desert on BLM land.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Brett A Mansfield
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:25 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
> 
> They don't require a computer anymore.
> 
> I have some customers with POTS lines that have had far more issues than any 
> of my magicJack customers.
> 
> If you can get a POTS line for only $20/mo the that would be great, but this 
> customer didn't have that option.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brett A Mansfield
> 
>>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Seth Mattinen <se...@rollernet.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or
>>> burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a
>>> good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?
>> 
>> 
>> Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

Fronter
Good Copper
Mutually Exclusive

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

We have Frontier.  They have no “good copper”.  They have waterlogged cables, 
and orange garbage bags on the side of the road where pedestals used to be.  If 
you are the last house on the road and the cable goes bad, no POTS for you.  
The mental image of well maintained copper cables is not reality in many 
places.  On the other hand, in urban areas, the ILEC may be converting 
everything to fiber or some hybrid fiber/VDSL system, and copper all the way to 
the central office is not an option.  Even in rural areas, they want to replace 
POTS with a wireless based service.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or burning 
building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a good old 
fashioned POTS line on good copper?

 

From: Brett A Mansfield 

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:05 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

I had a customer here in Utah that didn't have their phone line installed in 
time for their inspection. 30 min before the inspector got there we bought a 
magicJack and a desktop UPS for it (internet router and connected switch 
already had a UPS large enough to last 72 hours). When the inspector saw it he 
said that was a great setup. The companies owner decided to cancel his order 
for the other phone line. It was $35/yr vs $79/mo. It's been a year and haven't 
had any issues. They test it monthly. 


Thank you, 

Brett A Mansfield


On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.

   

  Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable.  

   

  From: Adam Moffett 

  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

   

  Yes, check local ordinances.

  Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
hours.

   

  I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who reboots 
the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components outside of the 
CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.  

   

  Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
for help?

   

   

  -- Original Message --

  From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>

  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

   

Need to check with your local ordinances...

 

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line) 

 

We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).

 

Regards.

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 




  From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
  To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that 
HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
  I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
gone. 
  A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
  to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
  A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

Most customers are within the boundary of a Local Exchange Carrier with a 
Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity issued by the state public 
utilitity regulators.  And, they are typically the COLR or POLR  Provider 
(Carrier) Of Last Resort.  Being such they cannot refuse to provide a POTS 
line.


Where was the location that a POLR did not exist?  Almost all of Utah has a 
POLR.  The only places open, don't have any people living in them, like out 
in the desert on BLM land.


-Original Message- 
From: Brett A Mansfield

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

They don't require a computer anymore.

I have some customers with POTS lines that have had far more issues than any 
of my magicJack customers.


If you can get a POTS line for only $20/mo the that would be great, but this 
customer didn't have that option.


Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield


On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Seth Mattinen <se...@rollernet.us> wrote:


On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or
burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a
good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?



Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

They aren't asking for the correct type of line. They just need a basic, 
metered use line from Centurylink.


Travis


On 2/23/2017 10:25 AM, Brett A Mansfield wrote:

They don't require a computer anymore.

I have some customers with POTS lines that have had far more issues than any of 
my magicJack customers.

If you can get a POTS line for only $20/mo the that would be great, but this 
customer didn't have that option.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield


On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:


On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or
burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a
good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?


Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Ken Hohhof]

We have Frontier.  They have no “good copper”.  They have waterlogged cables, 
and orange garbage bags on the side of the road where pedestals used to be.  If 
you are the last house on the road and the cable goes bad, no POTS for you.  
The mental image of well maintained copper cables is not reality in many 
places.  On the other hand, in urban areas, the ILEC may be converting 
everything to fiber or some hybrid fiber/VDSL system, and copper all the way to 
the central office is not an option.  Even in rural areas, they want to replace 
POTS with a wireless based service.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or burning 
building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a good old 
fashioned POTS line on good copper?

 

From: Brett A Mansfield 

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:05 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

I had a customer here in Utah that didn't have their phone line installed in 
time for their inspection. 30 min before the inspector got there we bought a 
magicJack and a desktop UPS for it (internet router and connected switch 
already had a UPS large enough to last 72 hours). When the inspector saw it he 
said that was a great setup. The companies owner decided to cancel his order 
for the other phone line. It was $35/yr vs $79/mo. It's been a year and haven't 
had any issues. They test it monthly. 


Thank you, 

Brett A Mansfield


On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm companies 
want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.

 

Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

Yes, check local ordinances.

Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
hours.

 

I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who reboots 
the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components outside of the 
CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.  

 

Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
for help?

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

Need to check with your local ordinances...

 

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line) 

 

We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).

 

Regards.

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> 

 


  _  


From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> >
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE TO 
HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about gone. 
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain caveats 
in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



-- 
  
<wlmailhtml:%7bEC20E6CA-7165-44FF-BCF8-0ED421C96272%7dmid://0752/!cid:(null)>
 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Brett A Mansfield]

They don't require a computer anymore. 

I have some customers with POTS lines that have had far more issues than any of 
my magicJack customers.

If you can get a POTS line for only $20/mo the that would be great, but this 
customer didn't have that option. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
>> On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or
>> burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a
>> good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?
> 
> 
> Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/23/17 09:11, Chuck McCown wrote:

I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or
burning building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a
good old fashioned POTS line on good copper?



Who wouldn't prefer a magicjack connected to a random desktop?

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I own 3 buildings with elevators. We have landlines for each of them... 
cost us $20/month each (measured use lines). If your client is that 
tight on money to risk a lawsuit and possibly someone getting seriously 
injured and not being able to contact EMS, I guess that's their choice.


Travis

On 2/23/2017 10:05 AM, Brett A Mansfield wrote:
I had a customer here in Utah that didn't have their phone line 
installed in time for their inspection. 30 min before the inspector 
got there we bought a magicJack and a desktop UPS for it (internet 
router and connected switch already had a UPS large enough to last 72 
hours). When the inspector saw it he said that was a great setup. The 
companies owner decided to cancel his order for the other phone line. 
It was $35/yr vs $79/mo. It's been a year and haven't had any issues. 
They test it monthly.


Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.
Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line 
you can get, especially if it comes directly from the central 
office.  But even if coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours 
after the power goes out.  I understand why code requires it, and I 
somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even FTTH ONT circuits will not be 
as reliable.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
Yes, check local ordinances.
Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and 
anything it relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external 
power for some number of hours.
I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way. Yes an ATA and a 
UPS meet the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on 
the UPS?  Who reboots the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line 
has no components outside of the CO, and the CO is maintained by the 
LEC.
Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* 
want to be the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the 
elevator and can't call for help?

-- Original Message --
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Need to check with your local ordinances...
In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line)
We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using 
an ATA).

Regards.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


*From: *"Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
*To: *"Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
    *Sent: *Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with
elevators that HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think
are about gone.
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT
for their elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with
certain caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for
demarc in the building.


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

I have mixed emotions.  If you got stuck in an elevator, bank vault or burning 
building which would you rather have connected, magic jack or a good old 
fashioned POTS line on good copper?

From: Brett A Mansfield 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

I had a customer here in Utah that didn't have their phone line installed in 
time for their inspection. 30 min before the inspector got there we bought a 
magicJack and a desktop UPS for it (internet router and connected switch 
already had a UPS large enough to last 72 hours). When the inspector saw it he 
said that was a great setup. The companies owner decided to cancel his order 
for the other phone line. It was $35/yr vs $79/mo. It's been a year and haven't 
had any issues. They test it monthly. 

Thank you, 
Brett A Mansfield

On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:


  Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.

  Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable.  

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Yes, check local ordinances.
  Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
hours.

  I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who reboots 
the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components outside of the 
CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.  

  Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
for help?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Need to check with your local ordinances...

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line) 

We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
  To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that 
HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
  I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
gone. 
  A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
  to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
  A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Brett A Mansfield]

I had a customer here in Utah that didn't have their phone line installed in 
time for their inspection. 30 min before the inspector got there we bought a 
magicJack and a desktop UPS for it (internet router and connected switch 
already had a UPS large enough to last 72 hours). When the inspector saw it he 
said that was a great setup. The companies owner decided to cancel his order 
for the other phone line. It was $35/yr vs $79/mo. It's been a year and haven't 
had any issues. They test it monthly. 

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm 
> companies want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.
>  
> Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
> get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
> coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
> understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
> FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable. 
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>  
> Yes, check local ordinances.
> Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
> relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
> hours.
>  
> I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
> the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who 
> reboots the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components 
> outside of the CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC. 
>  
> Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
> the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
> for help?
>  
>  
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>  
>> Need to check with your local ordinances...
>>  
>> In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
>> required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line)
>>  
>> We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).
>>  
>> Regards.
>>  
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> 
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>  
>> From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
>> To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
>> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE 
>> TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
>> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
>> gone. 
>> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
>> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
>> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
>> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
>> caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

"we're sorry, but this elevator is now out of service.  It will return to 
service at 8:00 am tomorrow..."


-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

On 2/23/17 08:43, Chuck McCown wrote:

Elevators are faraday cages.  Cell phones do not always work there...



All of the elevators at school had phone numbers that you could call
them with because they were set up with auto answer speakerphones. Kinda
fun to mess with people.

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/23/17 08:43, Chuck McCown wrote:

Elevators are faraday cages.  Cell phones do not always work there...



All of the elevators at school had phone numbers that you could call 
them with because they were set up with auto answer speakerphones. Kinda 
fun to mess with people.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

Fire codes require them for elevators and bank vaults and most alarm companies 
want them too.  Especially for the fire alarm panel.

Does not require power, it is arguably the most reliable phone line you can 
get, especially if it comes directly from the central office.  But even if 
coming from a DLC it will still be up 8 hours after the power goes out.  I 
understand why code requires it, and I somewhat agree.  VOIP, ATA, WISP even 
FTTH ONT circuits will not be as reliable.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Yes, check local ordinances.
Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and anything it 
relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power for some number of 
hours.

I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS meet 
the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  Who reboots 
the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no components outside of the 
CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.  

Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want to be 
the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and can't call 
for help?


-- Original Message --
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

  Need to check with your local ordinances...

  In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line) 

  We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA).

  Regards.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE 
TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
gone. 
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Chuck McCown]

Elevators are faraday cages.  Cell phones do not always work there...

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

How do you think that call gets from Verizon to AT over that hardline exactly?

On Feb 23, 2017 8:37 AM, "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

  Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I can see 
where they're coming from. 

  Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE 
TO HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
gone. 
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Adam Moffett]

Yes, check local ordinances.
Here it's not specifically an analog POTS line, but the line and 
anything it relies on (PBX, etc) has to operate without external power 
for some number of hours.


I would argue that a POTS line *is* the best way.  Yes an ATA and a UPS 
meet the letter of the law, but who is checking the battery on the UPS?  
Who reboots the ATA if it's locked up? etc.  The POTS line has no 
components outside of the CO, and the CO is maintained by the LEC.


Not that I don't want you to sell another VoIP line, but do *you* want 
to be the one getting in trouble if someone is stuck in the elevator and 
can't call for help?



-- Original Message --
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/23/2017 9:40:04 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines


Need to check with your local ordinances...

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line)


We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an 
ATA).


Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines
Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that 
HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are 
about gone.
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for 
their elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just

to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the 
building.



--

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Ken Hohhof]

“Hardline” is another of those terms people use but if you ask them what it 
means they have no idea.  Are they telling us we need to use Heliax?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

 

The ATA can be placed in the pots room for all I care so long as stupid 
elevator has a dial tone LOL
I just love our State level of education on anything high-tech or something 
with a button LOL

Reminds me of dextor when DD says "What does this button dooo."




On 02/23/2017 09:13 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Using a network that's monitored 24/7 and fixed by dozens of people on call. 

 

Not like a $40 ATA that's getting covered in graphite in the elevator room.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com 
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com> > wrote:

How do you think that call gets from Verizon to AT over that hardline exactly?

 

On Feb 23, 2017 8:37 AM, "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I can see where 
they're coming from. 

 

Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2340> 
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2343> 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com 
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE TO 
HAVE a quote "Hardline". 
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about gone. 
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their 
elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain caveats 
in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



-- 


 

 

 

-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Josh Luthman]

Using a network that's monitored 24/7 and fixed by dozens of people on call.

Not like a $40 ATA that's getting covered in graphite in the elevator room.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> How do you think that call gets from Verizon to AT over that hardline
> exactly?
>
> On Feb 23, 2017 8:37 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I can see
>> where they're coming from.
>>
>> Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>
>>> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that
>>> HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
>>> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are
>>> about gone.
>>> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for
>>> their elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
>>> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
>>> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain
>>> caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Nate Burke]

AT Just tried to "upgrade" a location I work with from POTS to 
U-Verse, when I mentioned there is an elevator there, they said, "Oh, 
you're not eligible for U-verse Phone then".  That didn't stop sales 
people calling once a week to schedule the "upgrade" though.


On 2/23/2017 8:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
How do you think that call gets from Verizon to AT over that 
hardline exactly?


On Feb 23, 2017 8:37 AM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote:


Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I
can see where they're coming from.

Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave > wrote:

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with
elevators that HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would
think are about gone.
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from
ATT for their elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with
certain caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for
demarc in the building.


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Josh Reynolds]

How do you think that call gets from Verizon to AT over that hardline
exactly?

On Feb 23, 2017 8:37 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I can see
> where they're coming from.
>
> Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave  wrote:
>
>> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that
>> HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
>> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about
>> gone.
>> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their
>> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
>> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
>> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain
>> caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Need to check with your local ordinances... 

In many places, folks are under a mis-impression that a hard line is 
required... (they confuse it with a dedicated line) 

We have clients that have voip phone line for the elevator. (using an ATA). 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
> To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:27:28 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that HAVE TO
> HAVE a quote "Hardline".
> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about 
> gone.
> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their
> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain caveats 
> in
> place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.

> --

Re: [AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Josh Luthman]

Internet is far more complicated than a pair of copper wires.  I can see
where they're coming from.

Having said that...who the hell wouldn't use their cell phone...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Dave  wrote:

> Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that
> HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
> I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are about
> gone.
> A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for their
> elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just
> to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
> A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain
> caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.
>
>
> --
>

[AFMUG] Elevator phone lines

[Dave]

Someone needs to reach out to the yahoos concerned with elevators that 
HAVE TO HAVE a quote "Hardline".
I think we are in the 21st century and hard-lines I would think are 
about gone.
A company in town here had an issue getting a hardline from ATT for 
their elevator. They paid out the waazoo to get one just

to satisfy safety requirements on the elevator... wTF.
A reliable internet service would satisfy this I am sure with certain 
caveats in place IE UPS Backup when power fails for demarc in the building.



--