Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

Hello,
ZTE has not completed Interoperability Testing (IOT) with Ubiquiti, therefore, 
their EMS and ACS will not be able to manage our ONTs, nor, is there any 
guarantee that traffic will be passed.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding ZTE IOT.
Thanks -
Parker

  From: Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com>
 To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
 Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 1:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
It works...I guess if you are looking to manage it in their platform, that 
might be difficult, but all you need is a profile for it on the OLT.
Regards,
Chuck
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality.  They might 
workish... From: Jason McKemie Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AMTo: 
af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON So, other ONTs will work? The 
beta store is sold out of the Ubiquiti ONTs every time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

 The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON equipment.  
ZTE included.     Regards,
Chuck   On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. com> wrote:
 
I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff...  

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' 
dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:
 
  1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing   2+2 = 7   I'm sure that's not the 
bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack either.   Figure-8 is also 
wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.     -- Original Message 
-- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. com> To: 
"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 
Small Scale PON    
Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
  The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft. It's way expensive, but no separate 
messenger strand.     -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 
3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON    
Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8? I've 
been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral with it, 
but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
  Figure-8 drop.   Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost 
attractive, but I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far 
apart.     -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 
3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON    
Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've got a 
couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the only way I 
can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not sure if these 
are good for the distance between some of the utility poles out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural road.  
Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to put a PON 
coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per mile.that 
changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile and so onmaybe 
$4k to $6k is fairer.

I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is pretty 
close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik switch, but cost 
per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid grade switch.  It's 
more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share numbers due to NDA, but 
that's the idea.

We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300 
households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface it 
seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the cable is 
in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Carlos Alcantar]

ZTE is good with working with different vendor ont's




Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com<mailto:car...@race.com> / 
http://www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 12:21:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


So you have confirmed it works with ZTE then I am guessing by this response. 
Good to know I have quite a few of those around to test until the ONUs are in 
stock again.

On 3/31/2017 1:21 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
It works...I guess if you are looking to manage it in their platform, that 
might be difficult, but all you need is a profile for it on the OLT.

Regards,
Chuck

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality.  They might 
workish...

From: Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the Ubiquiti ONTs every 
time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON equipment.  ZTE 
included.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff...


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:
1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing

2+2 = 7

I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack either.

Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8? I've 
been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral with it, 
but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I assumed 
it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've got a 
couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the only way I 
can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not sure if these 
are good for the distance between some of the utility poles out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural road.  
Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to put a PON 
coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per mile.that 
changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile and so onmaybe 
$4k to $6k is fairer.

I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is pretty 
close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik switch, but cost 
per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid grade switch.  It's 
more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share numbers due to NDA, but 
that's the idea.

We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300 
households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface it 
seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Ste

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Trey Scarborough]

So you have confirmed it works with ZTE then I am guessing by this 
response. Good to know I have quite a few of those around to test until 
the ONUs are in stock again.



On 3/31/2017 1:21 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
It works...I guess if you are looking to manage it in their platform, 
that might be difficult, but all you need is a profile for it on the OLT.


Regards,
Chuck

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality. 
They might workish...

*From:* Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the
Ubiquiti ONTs every time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other
GPON equipment.  ZTE included.
Regards,
Chuck
On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely
not light stuff...


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:

1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
2+2 = 7
I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too
far out of whack either.
Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will
surprise you.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
        Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie"
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on
the 12 strand figure-8? I've been using ADSS up
to this point since I can get closer to the
neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some
new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

Figure-8 drop.
Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would
certainly be cost attractive, but I assumed
it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are
that far apart.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie"
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
    To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or
just the flat drop cable? I've got a couple
scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct
flat drop, but the only way I can think of
to get it in the air is by using wedge
clamps. Not sure if these are good for the
distance between some of the utility poles
out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the idea is you can run a 12
strand aerial cable down a rural road. 
Since you're using this skinny cable,

you can use a $40 closure to put a PON
coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference
might be around $6,000 per
mile.that changes with assumptions
on how many houses are on that mile and
so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck Hogg]

It works...I guess if you are looking to manage it in their platform, that
might be difficult, but all you need is a profile for it on the OLT.

Regards,
Chuck

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality.  They might
> workish...
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the Ubiquiti ONTs
> every time I check.
>
> On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>
>> The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON
>> equipment.  ZTE included.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light
>>> stuff...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
>>>>
>>>> 2+2 = 7
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
>>>>> It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand
>>>>> figure-8? I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to
>>>>> the neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment
>>>>> scenarios.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Figure-8 drop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but
>>>>>> I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable?
>>>>>> I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, 
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge 
>>>>>> clamps.
>>>>>> Not sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility
>>>>>> poles out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a
>>>>>>> rural road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40
>>>>>>> closure to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>>>>>>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are 

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[chuck]

I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality.  They might 
workish...

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the Ubiquiti ONTs every 
time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

  The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON equipment.  
ZTE included.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff... 


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:

  1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing

  2+2 = 7

  I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack 
either.

  Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
  It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand 
figure-8? I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the 
neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  Figure-8 drop.

  Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, 
but I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
          To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop 
cable? I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, 
but the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. 
Not sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles 
out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett 
<dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down 
a rural road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure 
to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.

  My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 
per mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile 
and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

  I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at 
Alphion...the ONT is pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than 
a mikrotik switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par 
with a mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't 
share numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.

  We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of 
road and 300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the 
surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  
If you had 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the 
PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE 
like Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The 
cost of  the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs 
where do you place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling 
style on new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it w

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the Ubiquiti ONTs
every time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

> The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON
> equipment.  ZTE included.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff...
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
>>>
>>> 2+2 = 7
>>>
>>> I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack
>>> either.
>>>
>>> Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
>>>> It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8?
>>>> I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral
>>>> with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Figure-8 drop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but
>>>>> I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable?
>>>>> I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, 
>>>>> but
>>>>> the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps.
>>>>> Not sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility
>>>>> poles out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
>>>>>> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
>>>>>> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>>>>>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that 
>>>>>> mile
>>>>>> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
>>>>>> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
>>>>>> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a 
>>>>>> mid
>>>>>> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
>>>>>> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and
>>>>>> 300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the
>>>>>> su

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck Hogg]

The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other GPON equipment.
ZTE included.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff...
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
>>
>> 2+2 = 7
>>
>> I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack
>> either.
>>
>> Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
>>> It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8?
>>> I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral
>>> with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Figure-8 drop.
>>>>
>>>> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I
>>>> assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable?
>>>> I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but
>>>> the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps.
>>>> Not sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility
>>>> poles out there.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
>>>>> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
>>>>> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>>>>
>>>>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>>>>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile
>>>>> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
>>>>> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
>>>>> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a 
>>>>> mid
>>>>> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
>>>>> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and
>>>>> 300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the
>>>>> surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket
>>>>> truck.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had
>>>>>> 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>>>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Cali

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely not light stuff...

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
>
> 2+2 = 7
>
> I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack
> either.
>
> Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>>
> To: "af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
> Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
>> It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8?
>> I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral
>> with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Figure-8 drop.
>>>
>>> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I
>>> assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've
>>> got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the
>>> only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not
>>> sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles
>>> out there.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
>>>> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
>>>> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>>>
>>>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>>>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile
>>>> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
>>>> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
>>>> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid
>>>> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
>>>> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>>>>
>>>> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300
>>>> households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface
>>>> it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.
>>>>
>>>> -Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had
>>>>> 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>>>
>>>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>>>> So the question is, where do you place

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[chuck]

Some figure 8 has a solid stainless steel wire rather than the cable.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing

2+2 = 7

I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack either.

Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

  On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8? 
I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral 
with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.

  On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I 
assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
    To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? 
I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the 
only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not sure 
if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles out there.

  On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a 
rural road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to 
put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile and 
so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT 
is pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik 
switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid 
grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share 
numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.

We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 
300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface 
it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you 
had 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
  But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

  With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of 
 the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
  So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do 
you place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

  Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage 
etc.  Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me 
to
  tackle.

  It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower 
fiber
  count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
enclosures.
  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that f

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing

2+2 = 7

I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too far out of whack 
either.


Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will surprise you.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand 
figure-8? I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get 
closer to the neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some new 
deployment scenarios.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, 
but I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far 
apart.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? 
I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat 
drop, but the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by 
using wedge clamps. Not sure if these are good for the distance 
between some of the utility poles out there.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a 
rural road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a 
$40 closure to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.


My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on 
that mile and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.


I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT 
is pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a 
mikrotik switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is 
on par with a mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less 
than Juniper.  I can't share numbers due to NDA, but that's the 
idea.


We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road 
and 300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but 
on the surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really 
nice bucket truck.


-Adam


-- Original Message ------
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you 
had 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth 
doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to 
Calix PON.


With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of 
 the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do 
you place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it 
Sterling style on new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with 
the expensive PON is we are a regulated common carrier with 
provider of last resort obligations.  I have to give POTS that is 
battery backed up, legally required to do this.


Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage 
etc.  Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me 
to

tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower 
fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
enclosures.
 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, 
but I

was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



------ Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their 
other ideas.

Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be 
around in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go 
active ethernet.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent:

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
> It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>>
> To: "af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8?
> I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral
> with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Figure-8 drop.
>>
>> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I
>> assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message ------
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've
>> got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the
>> only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not
>> sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles
>> out there.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
>>> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
>>> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>>
>>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile
>>> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>>>
>>> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
>>> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
>>> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid
>>> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
>>> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>>>
>>> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300
>>> households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface
>>> it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>>>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>>
>>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you
>>>> place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>>>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>>>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>>>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>>>
>>>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>>>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>>> tackle.
>>>>
>>>> It seems like there ought

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Adam,

We just did this in a small area using about 9000' of 12 drop fiber.
Using two OLT ports and some creative splitting we are able to service
64 lots in that area.  Only about 20 of them are currently built out
and 15 of those 20 signed up.  I'm sure the other 5 will come in
within the next year or so.  Any new houses will go with us.

-- 
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
--

Wednesday, March 29, 2017, 10:42:29 AM, you wrote:

AM> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural 
AM> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure
AM> to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.

AM> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
AM> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that 
AM> mile and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

AM> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is 
AM> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik 
AM> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a
AM> mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't
AM> share numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.

AM> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300
AM> households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the 
AM> surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket
AM> truck.

AM> -Adam


AM> -- Original Message --
AM> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
AM> To: af@afmug.com
AM> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
AM> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

>>Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 
>>16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
>>Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix 
>>PON.
>>
>>With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
>>cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you 
>>place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on 
>>new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we 
>>are a regulated common carrier with provider of last resort 
>>obligations.  I have to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally 
>>required to do this.
>>
>>Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  
>>Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>
>>-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>To: af@afmug.com
>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>>Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>tackle.
>>
>>It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>>count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
>>enclosures.
>>  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>>was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>
>>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>To: af@afmug.com
>>Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>>>I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
>>>ideas.
>>>Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>>FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around 
>>>in the years to come.
>>>Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
>>>ethernet.
>>>
>>>-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>>To: af@afmug.com
>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>>WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to 
>>>wait
>>>for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>
>>>Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>>other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but 
>>>that's
>>>less important to me than having it just work.
>>>
>>>-Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>-- Original Message --
>>>From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@mi

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8? 
I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the 
neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment 
scenarios.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but 
I assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? 
I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat 
drop, but the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by 
using wedge clamps. Not sure if these are good for the distance 
between some of the utility poles out there.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a 
rural road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 
closure to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.


My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on 
that mile and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.


I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT 
is pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a 
mikrotik switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is 
on par with a mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than 
Juniper.  I can't share numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.


We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 
300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on 
the surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice 
bucket truck.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you 
had 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing 
the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix 
PON.


With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  
the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you 
place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling 
style on new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the 
expensive PON is we are a regulated common carrier with provider of 
last resort obligations.  I have to give POTS that is battery 
backed up, legally required to do this.


Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc. 
 Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower 
fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
enclosures.
 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but 
I

was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
ideas.

Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be 
around in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go 
active ethernet.


-----Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay 
to wait

for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table 
that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but 
that's

less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message ------
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] S

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on the 12 strand figure-8?
I've been using ADSS up to this point since I can get closer to the neutral
with it, but figure-8 might work in some new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Figure-8 drop.
>
> Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I
> assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>>
> To: "af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
> Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've
> got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the
> only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not
> sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles
> out there.
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dmmoff...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
>> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
>> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>>
>> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
>> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile
>> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>>
>> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
>> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
>> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid
>> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
>> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>>
>> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300
>> households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface
>> it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>
>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you
>>> place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>>
>>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>> tackle.
>>>
>>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>>>  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be sol

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[chuck]

Yeah Figure 8 is the best if you don’t lash.  Make sure to put some twists in 
it between poles otherwise it will dance in the wind and may destroy itself.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:36 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I assumed 
it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've got 
a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the only way 
I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not sure if these 
are good for the distance between some of the utility poles out there.

  On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural road. 
 Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to put a PON 
coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile and 
so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is 
pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik switch, 
but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid grade 
switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share numbers due 
to NDA, but that's the idea.

We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300 
households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface it 
seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 
or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
  But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling 
I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

  With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
  So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

  Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  
Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
  tackle.

  It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
  count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
  was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
      To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around 
in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
    To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  With ubiquiti shippin

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

Figure-8 drop.

Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would certainly be cost attractive, but I 
assumed it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are that far apart.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? 
I've got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, 
but the only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge 
clamps. Not sure if these are good for the distance between some of the 
utility poles out there.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural 
road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure 
to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.


My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that 
mile and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.


I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is 
pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik 
switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with 
a mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I 
can't share numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.


We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 
300 households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the 
surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice 
bucket truck.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 
16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the 
PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix 
PON.


With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  
the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you 
place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style 
on new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is 
we are a regulated common carrier with provider of last resort 
obligations.  I have to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally 
required to do this.


Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  
Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower 
fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
enclosures.

 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
ideas.

Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be 
around in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go 
active ethernet.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to 
wait

for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table 
that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but 
that's

less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
another he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't 
usually tested across vendors so whether it works fine, works with 
bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message ------
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[chuck]

The old telephone drop wire with P clamps was good for perhaps 300 feet spans 
max.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've got a 
couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the only way I 
can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not sure if these 
are good for the distance between some of the utility poles out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural road.  
Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to put a PON 
coupler in front of the customer prem.

  My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per mile.that 
changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile and so onmaybe 
$4k to $6k is fairer.

  I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is pretty 
close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik switch, but cost 
per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid grade switch.  It's 
more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share numbers due to NDA, but 
that's the idea.

  We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300 
households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface it 
seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
  Cheap... you get what you pay for.

  FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
  Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
  for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

  Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
  other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
  less important to me than having it just work.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



  On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors 
so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to 
be a matter of chance.


  -- Original Messa

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or just the flat drop cable? I've
got a couple scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct flat drop, but the
only way I can think of to get it in the air is by using wedge clamps. Not
sure if these are good for the distance between some of the utility poles
out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural
> road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure to
> put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.
>
> My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per
> mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that mile
> and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.
>
> I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is
> pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik
> switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a mid
> grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't share
> numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.
>
> We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300
> households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the surface
> it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket truck.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling
>> I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>
>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place
>> the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>
>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>> tackle.
>>
>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>>  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in
>>> the years to come.
>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>> ethernet.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>
>>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
>>> less important to me than having it just work.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>>>>
>>>> Jon Langeler
>>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

I think the idea is you can run a 12 strand aerial cable down a rural 
road.  Since you're using this skinny cable, you can use a $40 closure 
to put a PON coupler in front of the customer prem.


My quick estimate is the difference might be around $6,000 per 
mile.that changes with assumptions on how many houses are on that 
mile and so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.


I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm looking at Alphion...the ONT is 
pretty close to a routerboard.  The OLT is a lot more than a mikrotik 
switch, but cost per customer port (assuming 1:16 PON) is on par with a 
mid grade switch.  It's more than mikrotik, less than Juniper.  I can't 
share numbers due to NDA, but that's the idea.


We're looking at doing a whole rural town with 50 miles of road and 300 
households.  I haven't gotten down to brass tacks yet, but on the 
surface it seems like the savings is enough to buy a really nice bucket 
truck.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 5:33:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 
16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like 
Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix 
PON.


With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you 
place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on 
new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we 
are a regulated common carrier with provider of last resort 
obligations.  I have to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally 
required to do this.


Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  
Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper 
enclosures.

 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
ideas.

Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around 
in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to 
wait

for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but 
that's

less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
another he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually 
tested across vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or 
doesn't work at all is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message --
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with 
GPON.


 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

The WAN side of an OLT is a L2/L3 switch; the PON side is the G.984 and/or 
Active E portion of the technology.

  From: Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
 To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
 Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 5:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
So it's really just a matter of how you're deploying.  I wouldn't have an 
active cabinet everywhere I would put a splitter.
On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.
On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you locate 
the splitters or switches. On AE you battery back the switch.  On GPON you 
battery back the OLT/OIM.   At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap 
switch and SFPs.-or-You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.     From: Josh 
Reynolds Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PMTo: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] Small Scale PON AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And 
fiber. And battery backup. Etc. On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the cable is 
in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place the 
switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new greenfield.  
The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a regulated common 
carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to give POTS that is 
battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in the 
years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active ethernet.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 
On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, yes.  
As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said in 
essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors so 
whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to be a 
matter of chance.


-- Original Message ------
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.

Jared













   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

OLT subscriber ranges can actually range to 512 (vs 256) per OLT or higher, or, 
mix with XGS in the same shelf.

  From: Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
Put it this way, for each connection on AE you have two SFP optics and a port 
on a switch. You also probably want to battery back that.
For gpon you just push your 8 or 16 or 32 subs to a splitter that can fit 
inside someone's pocket and then single strand to your OLT with your non-$800 
or so from what I remember Calix Pon optic :P
Battery back the OLT, sure, but that's anywhere from 64 to 256 subs per, and a 
lot lower battery requirements.
I think your Calix experience has really skewed you to what's out there, to be 
fair.
On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you locate 
the splitters or switches. On AE you battery back the switch.  On GPON you 
battery back the OLT/OIM.   At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap 
switch and SFPs.-or-You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.     From: Josh 
Reynolds Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PMTo: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] Small Scale PON AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And 
fiber. And battery backup. Etc. On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the cable is 
in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place the 
switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new greenfield.  
The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a regulated common 
carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to give POTS that is 
battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in the 
years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active ethernet.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 
On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, yes.  
As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said in 
essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors so 
whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to be a 
matter of chance.


-- Original Message ------
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 
No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.

Jared











   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

The overall architecture for GPON, as defined by the ITU, etc., is fairly 
ubquitous.  eg  All vendors design their systems from the ITU G.984 standards, 
for example.  All use TDMA, ONU > T-CONT structure, etc.  The details are in 
the communications and management between devices.  ZTE is pretty close to the 
standards and we've had pretty good success interoperating with ONTs from other 
vendors with some minor IOT work.  
But, it isn't the optics...it is the OMCI (G.984) and TR-247 requirements.
 
  From: Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 1:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, 
yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across 
vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at 
all is going to be a matter of chance.


-- Original Message --
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

>No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>
>Jared
>
>
>


   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

Our pops were centered in several neighborhoods. Each pop was on active
fiber back to the adjacent pops, just like how you would lay out a micropop
tower for fixed wireless.

On Mar 27, 2017 5:10 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> The splitter has to be fed from equipment that does.  I have many
> subdivisions that may have 400 dwellings each.  I have the OLT cards in the
> cabinet next to the splitters.  If you feed all your splitters from the
> NOC, then yes, clearly a saving in power equipment in that respect.
>
> I can have 2 strands feeding a remote the way I do it. If I did it with
> all the cards at the C.O. I would have 165 strands just feeding splitters
> alone.
>
> With remotes, my those two strands can daisy chain from remote to remote
> in an erps ring.  Then when the fiber gets cut, no emergency.
>
> If a 165 strand main splitter cable got cut, big emergency.
> More splicing cost if you don’t use remotes too.
>
> pros and cons
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 4:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.
>
> On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you
>> locate the splitters or switches.
>>
>> On AE you battery back the switch.
>> On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.
>>
>> At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
>> -or-
>> You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
>> backup. Etc.
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>
>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you
>>> place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>>
>>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>> tackle.
>>>
>>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>>> Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around
>>>> in the years to come.
>>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>>> ethernet.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>>
>>>> Besides, I honestly

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

It evolved from DSL.  With DSL  you had to have remotes to have decent speeds.  
Those remotes got replaced with GPON gear.  C7 to E7.  
If doing it all from scratch dunno   I think I would run some numbers 
on all the options.  I still think I would do it Sterling style.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 4:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I actually do it both ways.  Eagle Mountain, Utah is really two towns.  The 
older area in the South has all the optics in the C.O. and splitters out in the 
residential cross boxes.
The Northern half has all remotes.  

More maintenance in the Northern half.  Bigger cables and splices in the 
Southern half.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Put it this way, for each connection on AE you have two SFP optics and a port 
on a switch. You also probably want to battery back that. 

For gpon you just push your 8 or 16 or 32 subs to a splitter that can fit 
inside someone's pocket and then single strand to your OLT with your non-$800 
or so from what I remember Calix Pon optic :P

Battery back the OLT, sure, but that's anywhere from 64 to 256 subs per, and a 
lot lower battery requirements.

I think your Calix experience has really skewed you to what's out there, to be 
fair.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you 
locate the splitters or switches.

  On AE you battery back the switch.  
  On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.  

  At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
  -or-
  You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.  



  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery backup. 
Etc.

  On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
  Cheap... you get what you pay for.

  FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
  Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
  for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

  Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
  other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
  less important to me than having it just work.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



  On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I asked the Alphion sales rep

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

I actually do it both ways.  Eagle Mountain, Utah is really two towns.  The 
older area in the South has all the optics in the C.O. and splitters out in the 
residential cross boxes.
The Northern half has all remotes.  

More maintenance in the Northern half.  Bigger cables and splices in the 
Southern half.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Put it this way, for each connection on AE you have two SFP optics and a port 
on a switch. You also probably want to battery back that. 

For gpon you just push your 8 or 16 or 32 subs to a splitter that can fit 
inside someone's pocket and then single strand to your OLT with your non-$800 
or so from what I remember Calix Pon optic :P

Battery back the OLT, sure, but that's anywhere from 64 to 256 subs per, and a 
lot lower battery requirements.

I think your Calix experience has really skewed you to what's out there, to be 
fair.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you 
locate the splitters or switches.

  On AE you battery back the switch.  
  On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.  

  At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
  -or-
  You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.  



  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery backup. 
Etc.

  On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
  Cheap... you get what you pay for.

  FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
  Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
  for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

  Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
  other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
  less important to me than having it just work.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



  On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors 
so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to 
be a matter of chance.


  -- Original Message --
  From: fiber...@mail.com
  To: af@afm

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

The splitter has to be fed from equipment that does.  I have many subdivisions 
that may have 400 dwellings each.  I have the OLT cards in the cabinet next to 
the splitters.  If you feed all your splitters from the NOC, then yes, clearly 
a saving in power equipment in that respect.

I can have 2 strands feeding a remote the way I do it. If I did it with all the 
cards at the C.O. I would have 165 strands just feeding splitters alone.  

With remotes, my those two strands can daisy chain from remote to remote in an 
erps ring.  Then when the fiber gets cut, no emergency.  

If a 165 strand main splitter cable got cut, big emergency.  
More splicing cost if you don’t use remotes too.  

pros and cons


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 4:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you 
locate the splitters or switches.

  On AE you battery back the switch.  
  On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.  

  At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
  -or-
  You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.  



  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery backup. 
Etc.

  On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the 
cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to 
give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
  Cheap... you get what you pay for.

  FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
  Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
  for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

  Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
  other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
  less important to me than having it just work.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



  On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors 
so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to 
be a matter of chance.


  -- Original Message --
  From: fiber...@mail.com
  To: af@afmug.com
      Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scal

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

Exactly, that's madness.

If you're doing a small to medium neighborhood, your nearest cabinet may be
10Km out easy, and you will only have a handful of strands to bring in. If
you did active, that's a lot of switch ports, a lot of power, a bigger pop,
and more fiber to bring in. A lot more $$$. Good splitters can be cheap
(see Chuck's Hogg's previous emails on the subject).

On Mar 27, 2017 5:04 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
wrote:

> So it's really just a matter of how you're deploying.  I wouldn't have an
> active cabinet everywhere I would put a splitter.
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you
>>> locate the splitters or switches.
>>>
>>> On AE you battery back the switch.
>>> On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.
>>>
>>> At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
>>> -or-
>>> You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
>>> backup. Etc.
>>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had
>>>> 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>>
>>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you
>>>> place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>>>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>>>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>>>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>>>
>>>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>>>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>>> tackle.
>>>>
>>>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>>>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>>>> Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>>>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other
>>>>> ideas.
>>>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>>>
>>>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around
>>>>> in the years to come.
>>>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>>>> ethernet.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to
>>>>> wait
>>>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>>>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be co

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

Put it this way, for each connection on AE you have two SFP optics and a
port on a switch. You also probably want to battery back that.

For gpon you just push your 8 or 16 or 32 subs to a splitter that can fit
inside someone's pocket and then single strand to your OLT with your non-
$800 or so from what I remember Calix Pon optic :P

Battery back the OLT, sure, but that's anywhere from 64 to 256 subs per,
and a lot lower battery requirements.

I think your Calix experience has really skewed you to what's out there, to
be fair.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you
> locate the splitters or switches.
>
> On AE you battery back the switch.
> On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.
>
> At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
> -or-
> You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
> backup. Etc.
>
> On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling
>> I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>
>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place
>> the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>
>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>> tackle.
>>
>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>> Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in
>>> the years to come.
>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>> ethernet.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>
>>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
>>> less important to me than having it just work.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>>>>
>>>> Jon Langeler
>>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are
>>>>> coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another
>>>>> he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across
>>>>> vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all
>>>>> is going to be a matter of chance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: fiber...@mail.com
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jared
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

So it's really just a matter of how you're deploying.  I wouldn't have an
active cabinet everywhere I would put a splitter.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

> Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.
>
> On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you
>> locate the splitters or switches.
>>
>> On AE you battery back the switch.
>> On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.
>>
>> At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
>> -or-
>> You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
>> backup. Etc.
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like
>>> Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>>
>>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you
>>> place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>>
>>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>>> tackle.
>>>
>>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>>> Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around
>>>> in the years to come.
>>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>>> ethernet.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>>
>>>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
>>>> less important to me than having it just work.
>>>>
>>>> -Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon Langeler
>>>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are
>>>>>> coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across
>>>>>> vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all
>>>>>> is going to be a matter of chance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>>> From: fiber...@mail.com
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with
>>>>>>> GPON.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jared
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

Switches take cabinets and power. Splitters do not.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you
> locate the splitters or switches.
>
> On AE you battery back the switch.
> On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.
>
> At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
> -or-
> You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
> backup. Etc.
>
> On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
>> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
>> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling
>> I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>>
>> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
>> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
>> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place
>> the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
>> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
>> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
>> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>>
>> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
>> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
>> tackle.
>>
>> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
>> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>> Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
>> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in
>>> the years to come.
>>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>>> ethernet.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>>
>>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
>>> less important to me than having it just work.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>>>>
>>>> Jon Langeler
>>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are
>>>>> coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another
>>>>> he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across
>>>>> vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all
>>>>> is going to be a matter of chance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: fiber...@mail.com
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>>
>>>>> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jared
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on where you locate 
the splitters or switches.

On AE you battery back the switch.  
On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.  

At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
-or-
You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.  



From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery backup. 
Etc.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
  But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.

  With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the cable 
is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
  So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place the 
switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new greenfield.  
The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a regulated common 
carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to give POTS that is 
battery backed up, legally required to do this.

  Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

  Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
  tackle.

  It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
  count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
  was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
    To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.



On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors 
so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to 
be a matter of chance.


-- Original Message --
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


  No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with 
GPON.

  Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And battery
backup. Etc.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16
> or more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
> But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling
> I don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.
>
> With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the
> cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
> So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place
> the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new
> greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a
> regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have
> to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.
>
> Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.
> Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.
>
> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
> tackle.
>
> It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
> count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
>  Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
> was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?
>
>
>
> -- Original Message ------
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
>> Cheap... you get what you pay for.
>>
>> FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in
>> the years to come.
>> Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active
>> ethernet.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
>> for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
>>
>> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
>> other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
>> less important to me than having it just work.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>>>
>>> Jon Langeler
>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are
>>>> coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another
>>>> he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across
>>>> vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all
>>>> is going to be a matter of chance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -- Original Message --
>>>>  From: fiber...@mail.com
>>>>  To: af@afmug.com
>>>>  Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>>
>>>>  No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jared
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.  If you had 16 or 
more in an area that could take a PON it was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE like Sterling I 
don't think PON is ever cost effective compared to Calix PON.


With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The cost of  the cable 
is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where do you place 
the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it Sterling style on new 
greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it with the expensive PON is we are a 
regulated common carrier with provider of last resort obligations.  I have 
to give POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.


Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power outage etc.  Cannot 
trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures.
 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in 
the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
another he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually 
tested across vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or 
doesn't work at all is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message --
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with 
GPON.


 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project for me to 
tackle.


It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of lower fiber 
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper enclosures. 
 Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far yet, but I 
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe not?




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other 
ideas.

Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around 
in the years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to 
wait

for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
another he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually 
tested across vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or 
doesn't work at all is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message --
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with 
GPON.


 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck McCown]

I would be worried that it will go the way of some of  their other ideas.
Cheap... you get what you pay for.

FTTH, I would rather pay more and know it will be solid and be around in the 
years to come.
Not an area where you want to scrimp.  If you want to scrimp go active 
ethernet.


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.

Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's
less important to me than having it just work.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, 
yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across 
vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all 
is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message --
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


 No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.

 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jon Langeler]

Management interface. Beta units show up this week. 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait for 
> the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.
> 
> Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that other 
> vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's less 
> important to me than having it just work.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
> 
>> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, 
>>> yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said 
>>> in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors 
>>> so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going 
>>> to be a matter of chance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: fiber...@mail.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>> 
>>>> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>>>> 
>>>> Jared
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

WellI have to build with what's available today.  If I delay to wait 
for the next hot product, I'll always be waiting.


Besides, I honestly don't know what Ubiquiti brings to the table that 
other vendors don't.  I suppose it will be cost competitive, but that's 
less important to me than having it just work.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


 On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


 I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are 
coded, yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from 
another he said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually 
tested across vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or 
doesn't work at all is going to be a matter of chance.



 -- Original Message --
 From: fiber...@mail.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

 No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with 
GPON.


 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Mitch Koep]

Soon by who's calendar

lol


On 03/27/2017 01:52 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:

With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, yes.  
As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said in 
essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors so 
whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to be a 
matter of chance.


-- Original Message --
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.

Jared


--
Mitch Koep

A Better Wireless
218-851-8689 cell

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Josh Reynolds]

Guys.

Right now they are working on initial launch.

OLT, optics, ONT, software. You will eventually find everything you need.

You would have to speak directly to someone at UBNT for timeframes,
roadmap, and additional info.



On Mar 27, 2017 1:52 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> wrote:

> With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> > On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded,
> yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said
> in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors
> so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going
> to be a matter of chance.
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: fiber...@mail.com
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
> >
> >> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
> >>
> >> Jared
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/27/17 11:52, Jon Langeler wrote:

With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait



That's the best laugh I've had all month.

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jon Langeler]

With ubiquiti shipping real soon, you might want to wait 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, yes. 
>  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he said in 
> essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across vendors so 
> whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at all is going to be 
> a matter of chance.
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: fiber...@mail.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
> 
>> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.
>> 
>> Jared
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Adam Moffett]

I asked the Alphion sales rep about this.  He says the optics are coded, 
yes.  As far as mixing ONT from one vendor with an OLT from another he 
said in essence GPON is a standard, but it isn't usually tested across 
vendors so whether it works fine, works with bugs, or doesn't work at 
all is going to be a matter of chance.



-- Original Message --
From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/23/2017 2:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON


No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

It said out of stock this afternoon.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Erich Kaiser <er...@northcentraltower.com>
wrote:

> I bought one of each a few hours ago, would only let me buy one ONT.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','er...@northcentraltower.com');>
> Office: 630-621-4804
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>> wrote:
>
>> What are you using for the ONTs? The store is sold out.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Gino Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','g...@aeronetpr.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just bought a OLT on the store, does it comes with the gpon sfps?
>>>
>>> From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck Hogg <
>>> ch...@shelbybb.com>
>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 11:41 AM
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>>
>>> Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But when is this actually going to be available?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>>>>>
>>>>> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>>>>>
>>>>> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
>>>>> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
>>>>> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
>>>>> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
>>>>> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
>>>>> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
>>>>> FastEthernet port for management
>>>>> Console serial port for management
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our
>>>>> GPON, TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best -
>>>>>
>>>>> Parker Reed
>>>>> Director of Sales
>>>>> ZTE USA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Erich Kaiser]

I bought one of each a few hours ago, would only let me buy one ONT.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What are you using for the ONTs? The store is sold out.
>
> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Gino Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>
>> Just bought a OLT on the store, does it comes with the gpon sfps?
>>
>> From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck Hogg <
>> ch...@shelbybb.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 11:41 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>>
>> Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> But when is this actually going to be available?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>>>>
>>>> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>>>>
>>>> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
>>>> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
>>>> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
>>>> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
>>>> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
>>>> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
>>>> FastEthernet port for management
>>>> Console serial port for management
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our
>>>> GPON, TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>>>>
>>>> Best -
>>>>
>>>> Parker Reed
>>>> Director of Sales
>>>> ZTE USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

What are you using for the ONTs? The store is sold out.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Gino Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote:

> Just bought a OLT on the store, does it comes with the gpon sfps?
>
> From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>> on behalf of
> Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ch...@shelbybb.com');>>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 11:41 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
>
> Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>> wrote:
>
>> But when is this actually going to be available?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','keefe...@ethoplex.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>>>
>>> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>>>
>>> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
>>> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
>>> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
>>> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
>>> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
>>> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
>>> FastEthernet port for management
>>> Console serial port for management
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>>>
>>> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON,
>>> TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>>>
>>> Best -
>>>
>>> Parker Reed
>>> Director of Sales
>>> ZTE USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Gino Villarini]

Just bought a OLT on the store, does it comes with the gpon sfps?

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Chuck 
Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 11:41 AM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...

Regards,
Chuck




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
But when is this actually going to be available?


On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John 
<keefe...@ethoplex.com<mailto:keefe...@ethoplex.com>> wrote:

How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?

8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal

8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
FastEthernet port for management
Console serial port for management

On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, TDD 
LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.

Best -

Parker Reed
Director of Sales
ZTE USA

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[David Kunat]

What are you supposed to use for the slots? Does UBNT have a GPON stick, or 
should any standards compatible one work?

> On Mar 23, 2017, at 10:54 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> 
> No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON. 
> 
> Jared
>  
>  
> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
> Interesting, are these open standards? Looks like they're sold out of the ONT.
> 
> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Chuck Hogg 
> <ch...@shelbybb.com[mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com]> wrote:
> Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
>  
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck 
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie 
> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:But when is this actually going to 
> be available?
> 
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:
> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
> 
> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
> FastEthernet port for management
> Console serial port for management
>  
> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
> 
> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, TDD 
> LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>  
> Best -
>  
> Parker Reed
> Director of Sales
> ZTE USA

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

There is some vendor interoperability within the GPON market, which ZTE does 
support based on customer requirements.  



  From: "fiber...@mail.com" <fiber...@mail.com>
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 1:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON. 

Jared
 
 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
Interesting, are these open standards? Looks like they're sold out of the ONT.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Chuck Hogg 
<ch...@shelbybb.com[mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com]> wrote:
Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
 

Regards,
Chuck 
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:But when is this actually going to be 
available?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:
How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal

8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
FastEthernet port for management
Console serial port for management
 
On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:

If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, TDD 
LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
 
Best -
 
Parker Reed
Director of Sales
ZTE USA

   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[fiberrun]

No, generally speaking there is no crossvendor compatibility with GPON. 

Jared
 
 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
Interesting, are these open standards? Looks like they're sold out of the ONT.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Chuck Hogg 
<ch...@shelbybb.com[mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com]> wrote:
Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
 

Regards,
Chuck 
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:But when is this actually going to be 
available?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:
How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal

8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
FastEthernet port for management
Console serial port for management
 
On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:

If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, TDD 
LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
 
Best -
 
Parker Reed
Director of Sales
ZTE USA

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

Interesting, are these open standards? Looks like they're sold out of the
ONT.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> > wrote:
>
>> But when is this actually going to be available?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John > > wrote:
>>
>>> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>>>
>>> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>>>
>>> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
>>> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
>>> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
>>> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
>>> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
>>> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
>>> FastEthernet port for management
>>> Console serial port for management
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>>>
>>> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON,
>>> TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>>>
>>> Best -
>>>
>>> Parker Reed
>>> Director of Sales
>>> ZTE USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Chuck Hogg]

Was/is on the UBNT beta store now...

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> But when is this actually going to be available?
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John  wrote:
>
>> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>>
>> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>>
>> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
>> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
>> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
>> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
>> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
>> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
>> FastEthernet port for management
>> Console serial port for management
>>
>> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>>
>> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON,
>> TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>>
>> Best -
>>
>> Parker Reed
>> Director of Sales
>> ZTE USA
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

ZTE's C320 is shipping now along with trials in work.

  From: Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
 To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 5:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
But when is this actually going to be available?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com> wrote:

  How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT? 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
 
 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
 Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
 Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
 Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
 Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
 Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
 FastEthernet port for management
 Console serial port for management
  
 On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
  
 If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, 
TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me. 
  Best - 
  Parker Reed Director of Sales ZTE USA
 
 
 


   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

Compares quite well, and, the backplane provides scalability for XGS-PON if 
interested. 

  From: Keefe John <keefe...@ethoplex.com>
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 5:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
   
  How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT? 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
 
 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
 Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
 Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
 Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
 Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
 Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
 FastEthernet port for management
 Console serial port for management
  
 On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
  
 If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, 
TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me. 
  Best - 
  Parker Reed Director of Sales ZTE USA
 
 
 

   

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Jason McKemie]

But when is this actually going to be available?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Keefe John  wrote:

> How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?
>
> 8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal
>
> 8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
> Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
> Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
> Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
> Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
> Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
> FastEthernet port for management
> Console serial port for management
>
> On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
>
> If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON,
> TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
>
> Best -
>
> Parker Reed
> Director of Sales
> ZTE USA
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Keefe John]

How does it compare to UBNT new uFiber OLT?

8-Port GPON Optical Line Terminal

8 Gigabit Passive Optical Network Ports
Supports up to 1024 Clients (128 per PON Port)
Up to 2.488 Gbps TX and 1.244 Gbps RX
Supports up to 20 km GPON Links
Two 1G/10G SFP+ Ethernet Ports
Flexible Layer 2/3 Management Features
FastEthernet port for management
Console serial port for management


On 3/22/2017 5:02 PM, PE R wrote:
If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our 
GPON, TDD LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.


Best -

Parker Reed
Director of Sales
ZTE USA

[AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[PE R]

 If anyone has any questions regarding ZTE products, to include our GPON, TDD 
LTE or transport products, please feel free to contact me.
Best -
Parker ReedDirector of SalesZTE USA