subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] Vegas Mass Shooting"

That's kind of a shame. Harris makes damn good military radios.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:03 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net>
wrote:

> Yes, they  ran into capacity issues. Harris had techs onsite massaging the
> system full-time trying to save the deal but there was something wrong with
> the software.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> Was the system built with enough receive sites in the right locations?
> That's generally the problem.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
>
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:50:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios
> in their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid.
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public
> safety and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business.
> I'll sum it up.
>
>- All Two Way channels are getting narrower
>- Digital is the way things are going to continue to go
>- It ain't going back
>
> It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends
> are driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral
> efficiency and there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it.
> FirstNet is the same thing with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or
> 6.25KHz without digital and see what that crap sounds like. I lived through
> it and companding was a lot worse. Most of you aren't old enough to
> remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz instead of 25KHz and
> everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming back.
>
>
>
> No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps.
> Having said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any
> narrowband. If you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all
> sounds like crap. You get used the the difference and there is no issue
> understanding words or intent.
>
>
>
> In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get
> over it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
> wrote:
>
> P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit.
> Phase-II uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two
> time slots, i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is
> also 2-slot TDMA using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad
> at all. Add encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the
> vocoder used. Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.
>
>
>
> On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be
> able to understand communication on the radio.
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hitting delete is so damn easy tho
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes <mattlists@
> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression
> crap is on the radio's conversation would've flown a li

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Rory Conaway

Yes, they  ran into capacity issues. Harris had techs onsite massaging the 
system full-time trying to save the deal but there was something wrong with the 
software.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Was the system built with enough receive sites in the right locations? That's 
generally the problem.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:50:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios in 
their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public safety 
and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. I'll sum it 
up.

  *   All Two Way channels are getting narrower
  *   Digital is the way things are going to continue to go
  *   It ain't going back
It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends are 
driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral efficiency and 
there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. FirstNet is the same thing 
with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or 6.25KHz without digital and see 
what that crap sounds like. I lived through it and companding was a lot worse. 
Most of you aren't old enough to remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz 
instead of 25KHz and everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming 
back.

No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. Having 
said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any narrowband. If 
you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all sounds like crap. 
You get used the the difference and there is no issue understanding words or 
intent.

In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get over 
it.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. Phase-II 
uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two time slots, 
i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is also 2-slot TDMA 
using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad at all. Add 
encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the vocoder used. 
Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman 
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Hitting delete is so damn easy tho

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340<tel:(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne 
St<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 
1337<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 
45373<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how i

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Mike Hammett

DeKalb county is moving from 17 sites on VHF to 4 sites on digital. Yeah 
fucking right. 

If I had more county board meeting experience, I would have grilled their 
consultant when he gave stupid answers to questions, but I didn't know that I 
could counter. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:10:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

Like Hammet says, not enough sites is the major issue with digital. They all 
think digital lets them get more for less. Totally not the case, as many 
agencies have found. 


On 10/4/2017 6:50 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 



In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios in 
their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid. 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public safety 
and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. I'll sum it 
up. 



* All Two Way channels are getting narrower 
* Digital is the way things are going to continue to go 
* It ain't going back 

It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends are 
driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral efficiency and 
there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. FirstNet is the same thing 
with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or 6.25KHz without digital and see 
what that crap sounds like. I lived through it and companding was a lot worse. 
Most of you aren't old enough to remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz 
instead of 25KHz and everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming 
back. 


No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. Having 
said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any narrowband. If 
you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all sounds like crap. 
You get used the the difference and there is no issue understanding words or 
intent. 


In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get over 
it. 


On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 



P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. Phase-II 
uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two time slots, 
i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is also 2-slot TDMA 
using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad at all. Add 
encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the vocoder used. 
Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth. 



On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 




But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio. 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: 










Hitting delete is so damn easy tho 
















Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 












On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes < 
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > wrote: 
















Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't 
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying 
to go to another one. 


The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to repeater 
isn't good 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > 
wrote: 





















The zones could have been wrong - it happens. 

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 


























Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of been a 
big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was? 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 
































Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to 
work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 


On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 






So as long as we are so off-topic on this. 


Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going off, 
the fire panel would indicate the room it was in. 


"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smok

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Mike Hammett

Was the system built with enough receive sites in the right locations? That's 
generally the problem. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:50:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 



In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios in 
their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid. 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public safety 
and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. I'll sum it 
up. 


* All Two Way channels are getting narrower 
* Digital is the way things are going to continue to go 
* It ain't going back 


It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends are 
driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral efficiency and 
there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. FirstNet is the same thing 
with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or 6.25KHz without digital and see 
what that crap sounds like. I lived through it and companding was a lot worse. 
Most of you aren't old enough to remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz 
instead of 25KHz and everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming 
back. 


No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. Having 
said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any narrowband. If 
you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all sounds like crap. 
You get used the the difference and there is no issue understanding words or 
intent. 


In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get over 
it. 


On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 



P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. Phase-II 
uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two time slots, 
i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is also 2-slot TDMA 
using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad at all. Add 
encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the vocoder used. 
Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth. 



On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 




But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio. 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: 










Hitting delete is so damn easy tho 
















Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 












On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes < 
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > wrote: 
















Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't 
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying 
to go to another one. 


The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to repeater 
isn't good 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > 
wrote: 





















The zones could have been wrong - it happens. 

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 


























Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of been a 
big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was? 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 
































Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to 
work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 


On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 






So as long as we are so off-topic on this. 


Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going off, 
the fire panel would indicate the room it was in. 


"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine Paddock's 
location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time they arrived at 
the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located in, according to The 
Post." 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like something 
I'd want to use for w

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Rory Conaway

Vegas was like that for a while until they got rid of the crappy Harris system. 
 Finally went to Motorola and everything works again.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 4:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios in 
their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public safety 
and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. I'll sum it 
up.

  *   All Two Way channels are getting narrower
  *   Digital is the way things are going to continue to go
  *   It ain't going back
It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends are 
driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral efficiency and 
there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. FirstNet is the same thing 
with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or 6.25KHz without digital and see 
what that crap sounds like. I lived through it and companding was a lot worse. 
Most of you aren't old enough to remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz 
instead of 25KHz and everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming 
back.

No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. Having 
said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any narrowband. If 
you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all sounds like crap. 
You get used the the difference and there is no issue understanding words or 
intent.

In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get over 
it.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. Phase-II 
uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two time slots, 
i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is also 2-slot TDMA 
using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad at all. Add 
encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the vocoder used. 
Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman 
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Hitting delete is so damn easy tho

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340<tel:(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne 
St<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 
1337<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 
45373<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't 
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying 
to go to another one.

The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to repeater 
isn't good

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
The zones could have been wrong - it happens.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of been a 
big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to 
work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.

On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
So as long as we are so off-topic on this.

Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going off, 
the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.

"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine Paddoc

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Chuck McCown

I used to build a pretty good sounding POTS line extender using 12.5 KHz and a 
compander.  But  yeah, ain’t nothing like a good old FM rig.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public safety 
and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. I'll sum it 
up. 

  a.. All Two Way channels are getting narrower 
  b.. Digital is the way things are going to continue to go 
  c.. It ain't going back
It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends are 
driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral efficiency and 
there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. FirstNet is the same thing 
with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or 6.25KHz without digital and see 
what that crap sounds like. I lived through it and companding was a lot worse. 
Most of you aren't old enough to remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz 
instead of 25KHz and everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming 
back.

No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. Having 
said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any narrowband. If 
you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all sounds like crap. 
You get used the the difference and there is no issue understanding words or 
intent. 

In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get over 
it.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

  P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. 
Phase-II uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two 
time slots, i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is also 
2-slot TDMA using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad at all. 
Add encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the vocoder used. 
Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

  On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be 
able to understand communication on the radio.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

  Hitting delete is so damn easy tho

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression 
crap is on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For 
some reason digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as 
being the cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just 
doesn't work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start 
trying to go to another one. 

The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding 
in the abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to 
repeater isn't good

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  The zones could have been wrong - it happens.

  On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there 
of been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the 
brain to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 

  On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

So as long as we are so off-topic on this.

Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an 
alarm going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.

"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to 
determine Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the 
time they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located 
in, according to The Post."

On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

  The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound 
like something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "James Howard

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

ll kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain
>>>> to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@
>>>> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm
>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>>>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is
>>>>> an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so.
>>>>> Medically neuter the population.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>>>>> count this year than this guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>>>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as
>>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread George Skorup

opic on this.

Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if
there is an alarm going off, the fire panel would
indicate the room it was in.

"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by
the smoke to determine Paddock's location. But it
still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact
room Paddock was located in, according to The Post."

On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:


The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like
doesn't sound like something I'd want to use for
what it's name implies.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

--------
    *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!

    *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Because we invoked Lent due to things that
transpired last fall.  I think it is time to
        remind everyone that it is still Lent at
AnimalFarm.

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that
can be closed.  It is an email list, and people
can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
everyone so sensitive to constructive or even
non-constructive debate?  Bunch of pussies

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

Can we either drop this discussion or open
it up to real discussion?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince
<part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

So we should just chemically castrate
any male over 26 or so. Medically neuter
the population.

We can start with Steve.

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Sheeple should really be more
concerned about identifying day to
day criminals than mass murderers.
Gangs have more mass murderers
walking the streets next to you
daily today than all the combined
mass murderers in the history of the
country. The city of chicago has a
higher shooting/kill count this year
than this guy.

Worrying about identifying mass
shooters beforehand is the epitome
not seeing the forrest through the
trees.

Really should have killed this thread.

On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill
Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

Reports on NPR is that there
were both full auto as well as
"conversions" in the assortment
of 23-some-odd weapons found in
the room.

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

 to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@
>>>> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm
>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>>>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is
>>>>> an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so.
>>>>> Medically neuter the population.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>>>>> count this year than this guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>>>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as
>>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Jaime Solorza

the annunciator panel for what room it 
>>>> was?
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain
>>>> to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@
>>>> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm
>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>>>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is
>>>>> an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so.
>>>>> Medically neuter the population.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>>>>> count this year than this guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>>>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as
>>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>>
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

t; On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
>>>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm 
>>>>>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine 
>>>>>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the 
>>>>>>>>> time they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was 
>>>>>>>>> located in, according to The Post."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like 
>>>>>>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017   
>>>>>>>>>> 9:19:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
>>>>>>>>>>   Of Chuck McCown
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I 
>>>>>>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at 
>>>>>>>>>> AnimalFarm. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: Jeremy
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It 
>>>>>>>>>> is an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  
>>>>>>>>>> Why is everyone so sensitive to constructive or even 
>>>>>>>>>> non-constructive debate?  Bunch of pussies
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson 
>>>>>>>>>> <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. 
>>>>>>>>>> Medically neuter the population.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day 
>>>>>>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers 
>>>>>>>>>> walking the streets next to you daily today than all the combined 
>>>>>>>>>> mass murderers in the history
>>>>>>>>>>of the country. The city of chicago has a higher 
>>>>>>>>>> shooting/kill count this year than this guy.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome 
>>>>>>>>>> not seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as 
>>>>>>>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the 
>>>>>>>>>> room.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Lewis Bergman

> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is
>>>> an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
>>>> neuter the population.
>>>>
>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>>
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the
>>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>>>> count this year than this guy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as
>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>>
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread George Skorup

P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit.
Phase-II uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into
two time slots, i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE.
DMR/TRBO is also 2-slot TDMA using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it
sounds that bad at all. Add encryption overhead and it sounds worse,
regardless of the vocoder used. Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to
not be able to understand communication on the radio.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Hitting delete is so damn easy tho

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital
compression crap is on the radio's conversation would've flown a
little bit better. For some reason digital radio get sold over
and over and over to Public Safety as being the cats meow, but
here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to
start trying to go to another one.

The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone
sounding in the abbreviated and codex scaling down because the
signal level going to repeater isn't good

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:

The zones could have been wrong - it happens.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there,
shouldn't there of been a big red light flashing on the
annunciator panel for what room it was?

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds
<j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile
for the brain to work. That night was pure chaos with all
kinds of false reports.

On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes"
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

So as long as we are so off-topic on this.

Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there
is an alarm going off, the fire panel would indicate
the room it was in.

"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the
smoke to determine Paddock's location. But it still
took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time they arrived at
the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was
located in, according to The Post."

On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like
doesn't sound like something I'd want to use for what
it's name implies.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
*To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired
last fall. I think it is time to remind everyone that
it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM

*To:*af@afm

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Jeremy

The initial reports about smoke alarms seem to have been false
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/frantic-switchboard-calls-geometry-of-fire-led-police-to-killer-on-mandalay-bays-32nd-floor/2017/10/03/e29857ca-a87b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html?utm_term=.a733976b285f

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:56 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
wrote:

>
> My understanding is an initial response team of about three officers and a
> security guard from the hotel found the room - about 11 to 12 minutes after
> the shooting started.  They engaged the suspect who actually shot the
> security guard in the leg through the door.  That was the last time the
> shooter fired into the crowd.  Although the swap breach was about an hour
> later it was no longer considered an active shooter situation
>
> I suspect had the shooter continued firing into the crowd they may not
> have waited on the swat team.  The initial thought was he had fled the
> scene - but they really did not know what they'd find behind the door -
> thus the decision to breach with swat.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:04 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to
> work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>
> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> wrote:
>
>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>
>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going
>> off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>
>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>> in, according to The Post."
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think
>> it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>> Bunch of pussies
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
>> neuter the population.
>>
>> We can start with Steve

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Mike Hammett

Nothing to do with digital systems. Everything to do with a shit design. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 9:27:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 



But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio. 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: 





Hitting delete is so damn easy tho 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes < 
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > wrote: 





Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't 
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying 
to go to another one. 


The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to repeater 
isn't good 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > 
wrote: 




The zones could have been wrong - it happens. 

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 





Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of been a 
big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was? 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 





Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to 
work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 


On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 







So as long as we are so off-topic on this. 


Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going off, 
the fire panel would indicate the room it was in. 


"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine Paddock's 
location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time they arrived at 
the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located in, according to The 
Post." 

On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like something 
I'd want to use for what it's name implies. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "James Howard" < ja...@litewire.net > 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 



Sackcloth and ashes for everyone! 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 




Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall. I think it is 
time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm. 






From: Jeremy 

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 




This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed. It is an email 
list, and people can say whatever the hell they want. Why is everyone so 
sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate? Bunch of pussies 




On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? 




On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 



So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically neuter 
the population. 
We can start with Steve. 
bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote: 





Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day criminals 
than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the streets next to 
you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the history of the 
country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill count this year than 
this guy. 



Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not seeing 
the forrest through the trees. 




Really should have killed this thread. 




On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions" in 
the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room. 
bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not be able 
to understand communication on the radio.

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> 
> Hitting delete is so damn easy tho
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes 
>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap 
>> is on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some 
>> reason digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as 
>> being the cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it 
>> just doesn't work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just 
>> to start trying to go to another one. 
>> 
>> The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
>> abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to 
>> repeater isn't good
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The zones could have been wrong - it happens.
>>> 
>>>> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes 
>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of 
>>>> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it 
>>>> was?
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain 
>>>>> to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm 
>>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine 
>>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time 
>>>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located 
>>>>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like 
>>>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: "James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I 
>>>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at 
>>>>>>> AnimalFarm. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Jeremy
>>>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

This has nothing to do with the situation, and seems like a rant.

On Oct 4, 2017 9:17 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
wrote:

> Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression
> crap is on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For
> some reason digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety
> as being the cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how
> it just doesn't work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system
> just to start trying to go to another one.
>
> The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in
> the abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to
> repeater isn't good
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
> The zones could have been wrong - it happens.
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes <mattlists@
> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of
>> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain
>> to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>
>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm
>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>
>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
>>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Josh Luthman

Hitting delete is so damn easy tho


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression
> crap is on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For
> some reason digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety
> as being the cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how
> it just doesn't work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system
> just to start trying to go to another one.
>
> The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in
> the abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to
> repeater isn't good
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
> The zones could have been wrong - it happens.
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes <mattlists@
> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of
>> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain
>> to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>
>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm
>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>
>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I
>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
>>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can we

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or whatever that digital compression crap is 
on the radio's conversation would've flown a little bit better. For some reason 
digital radio get sold over and over and over to Public Safety as being the 
cats meow, but here in Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't 
work. We spend millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying 
to go to another one. 

The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding in the 
abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to repeater 
isn't good

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> The zones could have been wrong - it happens.
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes 
>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of been 
>> a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to 
>>> work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. 
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>>> 
>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going 
>>>> off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>>> 
>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine 
>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time 
>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located 
>>>> in, according to The Post."
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like 
>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> 
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: "James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think 
>>>>> it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Jeremy
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an 
>>>>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is 
>>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?  
>>>>> Bunch of pussies
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson 
>>>>> <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically 
>>>>> neuter the population.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> bp
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>  
>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day 
>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the 
>>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in 
>>>>> the history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher 
>>>>> shooting/kill count this year than this guy.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not 
>>>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions" 
>>>>> in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> bp
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread Jason McKemie

The zones could have been wrong - it happens.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of
> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@kyneticwifi.com');>> wrote:
>
> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to
> work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>
> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net');>>
> wrote:
>
>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>
>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going
>> off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>
>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>> in, according to The Post."
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@ics-il.net');>> wrote:
>>
>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ja...@litewire.net');>>
>> *To: *"af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>" <
>> af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>> McCown
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think
>> it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>> Bunch of pussies
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cpeter...@portnetworks.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','part15...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
>> neuter the population.
>>
>> We can start with Steve.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the
>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>> count this year than this guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>
>>
>>
>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','part15...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions"
>> in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-04 Thread castarritt .

I've read that an ad-hoc team of hotel security and/or police were at the
shooter's door ~12min after the first shots were fired, but he had a camera
setup in the hallway, and wounded two of them by firing through the wall.
There were no more shots fired into the crowd below after this, so it is
thought the shooter killed himself shortly after firing upon the hotel
security team.  If there were no more shots being fired, SWAT may have
taken the time to clear adjacent rooms, hallways, and maybe even floors
before making entry on the shooter's room.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>
> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going
> off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>
> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
> in, according to The Post."
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think
> it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
> Bunch of pussies
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> wrote:
>
> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
> neuter the population.
>
> We can start with Steve.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
>
> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the
> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
> count this year than this guy.
>
>
>
> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>
>
>
> Really should have killed this thread.
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions"
> in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
>
> On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
>
> I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto narrative
> that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot from near
> the base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a friend

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Listen to the radio audio. It's confusion

On Oct 4, 2017 8:19 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
wrote:

> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of
> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it was?
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>
> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the brain to
> work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports.
>
> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> wrote:
>
>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this.
>>
>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going
>> off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.
>>
>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine
>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time
>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located
>> in, according to The Post."
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like
>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think
>> it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an
>> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is
>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
>> Bunch of pussies
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
>> neuter the population.
>>
>> We can start with Steve.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the
>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>> count this year than this guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>
>>
>>
>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full au

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

So as long as we are so off-topic on this.

Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm going off, 
the fire panel would indicate the room it was in.

"The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine Paddock's 
location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time they arrived at 
the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located in, according to The 
Post."

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like something 
> I'd want to use for what it's name implies.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> 
> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>  
> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think it 
> is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm. 
>  
> From: Jeremy
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>  
> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an 
> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is everyone 
> so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?  Bunch of 
> pussies
>  
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> 
> wrote:
> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? 
>  
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically 
> neuter the population.
> 
> We can start with Steve.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>  
> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day 
> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the 
> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the 
> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill count 
> this year than this guy.
>  
> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not seeing 
> the forrest through the trees.
>  
> Really should have killed this thread.
>  
> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions" in 
> the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>  
> On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
> I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto narrative that 
> the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot from near the 
> base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a friend sent me. I'll 
> post the link if you guys want. It sounds like this fuckwit is using an 
> external rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You can hear the cyclic 
> rate change. That's not something a full auto does. Probably his trigger 
> masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of shit. Sorry for that. I'm 
> going back to bed.
> 
> On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented 
> this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one 
> possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of 
> a difference.
>  
> Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
> look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners.  
> In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting 
> ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this 
> attack could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that 
> a recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the 
> belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that 
> path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want 
> to go on this list).
>  
> The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is 
> further rest

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread James Howard

Sackcloth and ashes for everyone!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall.  I think it is 
time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm.

From: Jeremy
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an email 
list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is everyone so 
sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?  Bunch of pussies

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince 
<part15...@gmail.com<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically neuter 
the population.

We can start with Steve.

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day criminals 
than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the streets next to 
you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the history of the 
country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill count this year than 
this guy.

Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not seeing 
the forrest through the trees.

Really should have killed this thread.

On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" 
<part15...@gmail.com<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as "conversions" in 
the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto narrative that 
the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot from near the base 
of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a friend sent me. I'll post 
the link if you guys want. It sounds like this fuckwit is using an external 
rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You can hear the cyclic rate change. 
That's not something a full auto does. Probably his trigger masturbation hand 
getting tired. Fucking piece of shit. Sorry for that. I'm going back to bed.
On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this 
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible 
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a 
difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners.  In 
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo 
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack 
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the 
belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that 
path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to 
go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is 
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic 
weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that one would restrict 
automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" 
products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a 
semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish 
with the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here.   
Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to use guns (or 
other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve 
that one?

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without 
your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta 
have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut jobs.
On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
I need to clarify

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Bill Prince

Where?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> here here
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 10/3/2017 4:35:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> Yeah, and I would rather hear Steve’s philosophical discussions on chicken
> rape vs masturbation any day.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> Go to the archives, there was a pretty good set of discussions about this
>
> having been a primary player in causing the net loss to the list, the
> ensuing lent made sense
>
> Its not a matter of censorship or "safe spaces" It was generally a
> consensus among members of the community that certain trains of discourse
> can result in a negative outcome for the community as a whole. Self
> policing helped.
>
> There is plenty of room for chatter and noise, but some topics trend
> toward an explosive outcome and some of us drinkalot
>
>


-- 
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Adam Moffett

here here

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/3/2017 4:35:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Yeah, and I would rather hear Steve’s philosophical discussions on 
chicken rape vs masturbation any day.

From:Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:34 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Go to the archives, there was a pretty good set of discussions about 
this

having been a primary player in causing the net loss to the list, the 
ensuing lent made sense

Its not a matter of censorship or "safe spaces" It was generally a 
consensus among members of the community that certain trains of 
discourse can result in a negative outcome for the community as a 
whole. Self policing helped.

There is plenty of room for chatter and noise, but some topics trend 
toward an explosive outcome and some of us drinkalot

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Mathew Howard

Yep... we've had this discussion before, and experience has proven that the
list is better if we stay away from certain topics.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Go to the archives, there was a pretty good set of discussions about this
>
> having been a primary player in causing the net loss to the list, the
> ensuing lent made sense
>
> Its not a matter of censorship or "safe spaces" It was generally a
> consensus among members of the community that certain trains of discourse
> can result in a negative outcome for the community as a whole. Self
> policing helped.
>
> There is plenty of room for chatter and noise, but some topics trend
> toward an explosive outcome and some of us drinkalot
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Chuck McCown

Yeah, and I would rather hear Steve’s philosophical discussions on chicken rape 
vs masturbation any day.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Go to the archives, there was a pretty good set of discussions about this

having been a primary player in causing the net loss to the list, the ensuing 
lent made sense

Its not a matter of censorship or "safe spaces" It was generally a consensus 
among members of the community that certain trains of discourse can result in a 
negative outcome for the community as a whole. Self policing helped.

There is plenty of room for chatter and noise, but some topics trend toward an 
explosive outcome and some of us drinkalot

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Steve Jones

Go to the archives, there was a pretty good set of discussions about this

having been a primary player in causing the net loss to the list, the
ensuing lent made sense

Its not a matter of censorship or "safe spaces" It was generally a
consensus among members of the community that certain trains of discourse
can result in a negative outcome for the community as a whole. Self
policing helped.

There is plenty of room for chatter and noise, but some topics trend toward
an explosive outcome and some of us drinkalot

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Chuck McCown

Plenty of other lists for political discourse.  Rather not smell those farts 
here anymore.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Ok, calling anyone a pussy is probably innapropriate.  It is just ironic to me 
that the same people talking about liberal snowflakes needing safe spaces claim 
this list as their safe space.  It's the Internet!  Where I grew up, you 
couldn't go anywhere without someone redirecting you to tubgirl...and you guys 
want to complain about political discourse??  If it is labeled OT, and is a 
subject that you would rather not discuss, then just don't click on it.  I 
don't see why a bunch of grown men have to hold their tongues and walk on 
eggshells on this list.  Is it really that hard to just have a constructive 
debate once in awhile?

On Oct 3, 2017 2:17 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

  The nice thing about AFMUG is there are very few rules. The bad thing about 
AFMUG is there are very few rules.

  The political stuff drove Ken away last year. I was thinking about it too. It 
was getting a little too much. So lets not go there again. That's one of the 
reasons I don't do the bookface much. That place is a shithole.

  BTW, someone did forget the [OT] on this thread.

  On 10/3/2017 3:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

It has to do with the nature of the content and the expected nature of the 
content. 

What if we just started only posting about VMware, or what if all new posts 
were only about Steve's peppers, on the AFMUG mailing list? It would drive the 
audience away.

On Oct 3, 2017 2:56 PM, "Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

  This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed.  It is an 
email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want.  Why is everyone so 
sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?  Bunch of pussies

  On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?  

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. 
Medically neuter the population. 

  We can start with Steve.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to 
day criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the 
streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the 
history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill count 
this year than this guy. 

Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome 
not seeing the forrest through the trees.

Really should have killed this thread.

On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as 
"conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:

I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto 
narrative that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot 
from near the base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a friend 
sent me. I'll post the link if you guys want. It sounds like this fuckwit is 
using an external rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You can hear the 
cyclic rate change. That's not something a full auto does. Probably his trigger 
masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of shit. Sorry for that. I'm 
going back to bed.

On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control 
have prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that 
with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have made 
much of a difference.

  Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he 
did), you have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on 
recreational gun owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting total 
number of guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the 
information we have that this attack could have been carried out with access to 
the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to.   
(Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun users 
- let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up leading to 
somewhere we don't want to go on this list).

  The only possible additional restriction I can see which may 
have helped is

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Jeremy

gt;>>>>
>>>>> Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you
>>>>> have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational 
>>>>> gun
>>>>> owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns,
>>>>> restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we
>>>>> have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact
>>>>> same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to.
>>>>> (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun
>>>>> users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up
>>>>> leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list).
>>>>>
>>>>> The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have
>>>>> helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert
>>>>> non-automatic weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that
>>>>> one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar
>>>>> restrictions to "conversion" products. On the other hand, I can think
>>>>> of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many
>>>>> of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause
>>>>> here.   Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to use
>>>>> guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how 
>>>>> do
>>>>> we solve that one?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <
>>>>> george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
>>>>>> without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep,
>>>>>> you gotta have both on you to carry.
>>>>>> Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns.
>>>>>> Our 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and
>>>>>> NICS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet
>>>>>> nut jobs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure
>>>>>> of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased
>>>>>> over the counter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo
>>>>>>> without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have
>>>>>>> some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and 
>>>>>>> ammo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with
>>>>>>>> thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe
>>>>>>>>> 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like 
>>>>>>>>> automatic
>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Steve Jones

weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do
>>>> we solve that one?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
>>>>> without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep,
>>>>> you gotta have both on you to carry.
>>>>> Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
>>>>> 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.
>>>>>
>>>>> So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.
>>>>>
>>>>> None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet
>>>>> nut jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure
>>>>> of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. 
>>>>> in
>>>>> the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased
>>>>> over the counter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo
>>>>>> without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have
>>>>>> some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands
>>>>>>> of rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe
>>>>>>>> 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like 
>>>>>>>> automatic
>>>>>>>> weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded 
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described 
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at 
>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>> 6 or 7 clips.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but
>>>>>>>> if it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How long did this event last?
>>>>>>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him
>>>>>>>> and he killed himself ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Reply message -
>>>>>>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>>>>>>> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Josh Reynolds

There is a link between early head trauma and serial killers.

Long term CTE also has recently explained a lot of aggressive and impulsive
behaviors.

This guy was not impulsive. He had been at the hotel with 25 guns since
Thursday. He had intent and patience.

On Oct 3, 2017 9:48 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Could be.
>
> I read an article profiling a bunch of mass shooters/killers.
>
>
>- In almost all cases people thought they were a super nice, quiet
>guy.  One exception being the Orlando night club shooter, who apparently
>was kind of an obnoxious dudebro.
>- A disproportionate number of them had divorced parents.
>- Almost all of them were young.  The Vegas guy being 64 is an
>exception.
>- I know some of you are thinking Jihadist, but that's actually the
>exception rather than the rule.  That said, having a crazy belief system of
>some type is usually a part of itconspiracy theories, CIA mind control,
>and other such crap.
>- Feeling disenfranchised is common.
>
>
> None of these are reliable indicators though.  The profile "nice, young
> guy with divorced parents and some unusual beliefs" is not really a
> profile.  That's millions of people.
>
> If there was a way to narrow that down it would be great, but even if you
> had a reliable test for who's likely to snap and go on a rampage, who would
> you administer the test to?  Everyone?
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message ------
> From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 10/3/2017 9:37:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> More accurately it might be said that with our current knowledge of mental
> health and his exposure to others, we didn't see a mental health problem.
> You have to have something wrong in your head to do what he did. We need to
> increase our mental health research and once we have something concrete,
> make sure we have awareness of what to look for.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Andy Trimmell" <atrimm...@precisionds.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:33:19 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> In my eyes I don’t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you
> have some sort of “Minority Report” from the movies. Early reports state
> the guy had no mental health issues and had one citation that was removed
> through the court system.  The story is he had 2 homes and gambled online
> and didn’t talk to his neighbors much.  Sounds like most of the people I
> know or have known. I live in a huge community and no one talks to their
> neighbors anymore and everyone spends way too much time online 
> or doing something.
>
>
>
> Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they’ll do
> the same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings.
> Australia doesn’t have guns and people have recently began driving cars
> into crowds of people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is
> already banned in every place on Earth but it happens every second. The
> most important thing is that we as the non-crazy people that we stick
> together and figure out a solution. We can’t continue down this road of
> divisive chatter, not just here but as a whole society. Too often online
> and on TV people talking about one group hating another and then mitigate
> it with more hate through personal attacks, threats etc.
>
>
>
> Remember we’re the good guys (most of us). Let’s also remember we’re on
> the same side.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy Trimmell
>
> *Systems Engineer*
>
> *PDS Connect*
>
> 317-831-3000 <(317)%20831-3000>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:*

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Adam Moffett

You have a point there.

-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/3/2017 10:57:59 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day 
criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking 
the streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass 
murderers in the history of the country. The city of chicago has a 
higher shooting/kill count this year than this guy.

Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not 
seeing the forrest through the trees.

Really should have killed this thread.

On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as 
"conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the 
room.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto 
narrative that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that 
someone shot from near the base of the hotel. The video is from an 
NSFW site that a friend sent me. I'll post the link if you guys want. 
It sounds like this fuckwit is using an external rotary trigger 
device. Think gatling gun. You can hear the cyclic rate change. 
That's not something a full auto does. Probably his trigger 
masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of shit. Sorry for 
that. I'm going back to bed.

On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have 
prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion 
that with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which 
would have made much of a difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you 
have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on 
recreational gun owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting 
total number of guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems 
based on the information we have that this attack could have been 
carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys 
into the belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's 
NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up leading to 
somewhere we don't want to go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have 
helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively 
convert non-automatic weapons to automatic functions.  I find it 
irrational that one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not 
apply similar restrictions to "conversion" products. On the 
other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic 
to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish with 
the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the 
cause here.   Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who 
want to use guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the 
question is how do we solve that one?

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or 
ammo without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate 
card, and yep, you gotta have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. 
Our 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State 
Police and NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding 
here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the 
quiet nut jobs.

On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the 
pleasure of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms 
that we purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting 
period and they can be purchased over the counter

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo 
without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF 
would have some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a 
bunch of guns and ammo.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with 
thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind.

On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; 
maybe 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what 
sounded like automatic weapon fire going and going until th

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Mike Hammett

We don't know what we don't know. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:48:53 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 


Could be. 


I read an article profiling a bunch of mass shooters/killers. 




* In almost all cases people thought they were a super nice, quiet guy. One 
exception being the Orlando night club shooter, who apparently was kind of an 
obnoxious dudebro. 
* A disproportionate number of them had divorced parents. 
* Almost all of them were young. The Vegas guy being 64 is an exception. 
* I know some of you are thinking Jihadist, but that's actually the 
exception rather than the rule. That said, having a crazy belief system of some 
type is usually a part of itconspiracy theories, CIA mind control, and 
other such crap. 
* Feeling disenfranchised is common. 



None of these are reliable indicators though. The profile "nice, young guy with 
divorced parents and some unusual beliefs" is not really a profile. That's 
millions of people. 


If there was a way to narrow that down it would be great, but even if you had a 
reliable test for who's likely to snap and go on a rampage, who would you 
administer the test to? Everyone? 


-Adam 








-- Original Message -- 
From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 10/3/2017 9:37:48 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 





More accurately it might be said that with our current knowledge of mental 
health and his exposure to others, we didn't see a mental health problem. You 
have to have something wrong in your head to do what he did. We need to 
increase our mental health research and once we have something concrete, make 
sure we have awareness of what to look for. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Andy Trimmell" < atrimm...@precisionds.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:33:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 



In my eyes I don’t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you have 
some sort of “Minority Report” from the movies. Early reports state the guy had 
no mental health issues and had one citation that was removed through the court 
system. The story is he had 2 homes and gambled online and didn’t talk to his 
neighbors much. Sounds like most of the people I know or have known. I live in 
a huge community and no one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone 
spends way too much time online  or doing something. 

Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they’ll do the 
same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings. Australia 
doesn’t have guns and people have recently began driving cars into crowds of 
people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is already banned in 
every place on Earth but it happens every second. The most important thing is 
that we as the non-crazy people that we stick together and figure out a 
solution. We can’t continue down this road of divisive chatter, not just here 
but as a whole society. Too often online and on TV people talking about one 
group hating another and then mitigate it with more hate through personal 
attacks, threats etc. 

Remember we’re the good guys (most of us). Let’s also remember we’re on the 
same side. 


Best Regards, 


Andy Trimmell 
Systems Engineer 
PDS Connect 
317-831-3000 





From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 


The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a WMD is 
because plutonium is fucking hard to get.. 



From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of " li...@packetflux.com " < 
li...@packetflux.com > 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 






After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this 
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible 
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a 
difference. 



Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners. In 
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo 
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack 
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun use

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Bill Prince

rs in the above
description, but if it's even close to correct, it
is pretty scary.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until
police found him and he killed himself ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <mailto:af@afmug.com>
<af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the
authorities can find a motive. I’ve got family up
there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
them yet.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf
            Of *Adam Moffett
    *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
    <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say
there are a bunch of extremely fervent views
on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
reasons behind them. I am not sure the
opposing sides think the opposition's reasons
are valid. I think we can agree, without
political discussions, that crazy is crazy.
And while I hate to see this like everyone
else, I don't think most freedom loving people
would be willing to do what it takes to stop
all potentially crazy people from doing such
things.

I would hope to head off any political debates
on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy
<jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.
It is hard to believe that they are legal,
and do not require a machine gun license. 
I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime
Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I
don't care what allegiance they
claim..this was a massacre committed by a
fucked up person. People died for no good
reason.  As much heat as I will take for
this, easy access to guns has got to
change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum"
<cc...@wispmon.com
<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent
convert and they are responsible,
not verified yet, but if true is
pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM,
Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>>
wrote:

    I have never been asked

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Adam Moffett


Could be.

I read an article profiling a bunch of mass shooters/killers.

In almost all cases people thought they were a super nice, quiet guy.  
One exception being the Orlando night club shooter, who apparently was 
kind of an obnoxious dudebro.A disproportionate number of them had 
divorced parents.Almost all of them were young.  The Vegas guy being 64 
is an exception.I know some of you are thinking Jihadist, but that's 
actually the exception rather than the rule.  That said, having a crazy 
belief system of some type is usually a part of itconspiracy 
theories, CIA mind control, and other such crap.Feeling disenfranchised 
is common.


None of these are reliable indicators though.  The profile "nice, young 
guy with divorced parents and some unusual beliefs" is not really a 
profile.  That's millions of people.


If there was a way to narrow that down it would be great, but even if 
you had a reliable test for who's likely to snap and go on a rampage, 
who would you administer the test to?  Everyone?


-Adam




-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/3/2017 9:37:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

More accurately it might be said that with our current knowledge of 
mental health and his exposure to others, we didn't see a mental health 
problem. You have to have something wrong in your head to do what he 
did. We need to increase our mental health research and once we have 
something concrete, make sure we have awareness of what to look for.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Andy Trimmell" <atrimm...@precisionds.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:33:19 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

In my eyes I don’t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you 
have some sort of “Minority Report” from the movies. Early reports 
state the guy had no mental health issues and had one citation that was 
removed through the court system.  The story is he had 2 homes and 
gambled online and didn’t talk to his neighbors much.  Sounds like most 
of the people I know or have known. I live in a huge community and no 
one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone spends way too much 
time online  or doing something.




Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they’ll 
do the same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings. 
Australia doesn’t have guns and people have recently began driving cars 
into crowds of people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder 
is already banned in every place on Earth but it happens every second. 
The most important thing is that we as the non-crazy people that we 
stick together and figure out a solution. We can’t continue down this 
road of divisive chatter, not just here but as a whole society. Too 
often online and on TV people talking about one group hating another 
and then mitigate it with more hate through personal attacks, threats 
etc.




Remember we’re the good guys (most of us). Let’s also remember we’re on 
the same side.






Best Regards,





Andy Trimmell

Systems Engineer

PDS Connect

317-831-3000







From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting



The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a 
WMD is because plutonium is fucking hard to get..




From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" 
<li...@packetflux.com>

Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting



After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have 
prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that 
with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would 
have made much of a difference.




Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you 
have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational 
gun owners.  In every case I've thought of (re

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Robert

I agree with this. Luckily this guy didn't take one of his planes and
fly it into the same crowd. Easily 100 dead, maybe 1000...

On 10/3/17 6:33 AM, Andy Trimmell wrote:
In my eyes I donï¿½t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you
have some sort of ï¿½Minority Reportï¿½ from the movies. Early reports state
the guy had no mental health issues and had one citation that was
removed through the court system. ï¿½The story is he had 2 homes and
gambled online and didnï¿½t talk to his neighbors much.ï¿½ Sounds like most
of the people I know or have known. I live in a huge community and no
one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone spends way too much
time online or doing something.

Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns theyï¿½ll
do the same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings.
Australia doesnï¿½t have guns and people have recently began driving cars
into crowds of people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is
already banned in every place on Earth but it happens every second. The
most important thing is that we as the non-crazy people that we stick
together and figure out a solution. We canï¿½t continue down this road of
divisive chatter, not just here but as a whole society. Too often online
and on TV people talking about one group hating another and then
mitigate it with more hate through personal attacks, threats etc.

Remember weï¿½re the good guys (most of us). Letï¿½s also remember weï¿½re on
the same side.

Best Regards,

Andy Trimmell

/Systems Engineer/

*PDS Connect*

317-831-3000

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a
WMD is because plutonium is fucking hard to get..

*From: *Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on
behalf of "li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>"
<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

*Date: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM
*To: *"af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have
prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that
with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would
have made much of a difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you
have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational
gun owners.ï¿½ In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of
guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the
information we have that this attack could have been carried out with
access to the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user should
have access to.ï¿½ï¿½ (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should
be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, since that
would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this
list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped
is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert
non-automatic weapons to automatic functions.ï¿½ I find it irrational that
one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar
restrictions to "conversion" products.ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ On the other hand, I can
think of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic
functions, many of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence
of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause
here.ï¿½ï¿½ Access to guns is not the problem.ï¿½ï¿½ Having people who want to
use guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is
how do we solve that one?

/*Gino A. Villarini*/

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and
yep, you gotta have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut
jobs.

On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:

I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the
pleasure of waiting 10 d

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Mike Hammett

More accurately it might be said that with our current knowledge of mental 
health and his exposure to others, we didn't see a mental health problem. You 
have to have something wrong in your head to do what he did. We need to 
increase our mental health research and once we have something concrete, make 
sure we have awareness of what to look for. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Andy Trimmell" <atrimm...@precisionds.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:33:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 



In my eyes I don’t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you have 
some sort of “Minority Report” from the movies. Early reports state the guy had 
no mental health issues and had one citation that was removed through the court 
system. The story is he had 2 homes and gambled online and didn’t talk to his 
neighbors much. Sounds like most of the people I know or have known. I live in 
a huge community and no one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone 
spends way too much time online  or doing something. 

Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they’ll do the 
same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings. Australia 
doesn’t have guns and people have recently began driving cars into crowds of 
people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is already banned in 
every place on Earth but it happens every second. The most important thing is 
that we as the non-crazy people that we stick together and figure out a 
solution. We can’t continue down this road of divisive chatter, not just here 
but as a whole society. Too often online and on TV people talking about one 
group hating another and then mitigate it with more hate through personal 
attacks, threats etc. 

Remember we’re the good guys (most of us). Let’s also remember we’re on the 
same side. 


Best Regards, 


Andy Trimmell 
Systems Engineer 
PDS Connect 
317-831-3000 





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 


The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a WMD is 
because plutonium is fucking hard to get.. 



From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of " li...@packetflux.com " < 
li...@packetflux.com > 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 






After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this 
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible 
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a 
difference. 



Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners. In 
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo 
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack 
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun user should have access to. (Assuming one buys into the belief 
that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, 
since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on 
this list). 



The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is 
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic 
weapons to automatic functions. I find it irrational that one would restrict 
automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" 
products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a 
semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish 
with the prevalence of 3d printing. 



Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here. 
Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use guns (or other 
weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve that one? 




Gino A. Villarini 

President 

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 

We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without 
your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta 
have both on you to carry. 
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS. 

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here. 

None of this stops the gang bangers f

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Andy Trimmell

In my eyes I don't foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you
have some sort of "Minority Report" from the movies. Early reports state
the guy had no mental health issues and had one citation that was
removed through the court system.  The story is he had 2 homes and
gambled online and didn't talk to his neighbors much.  Sounds like most
of the people I know or have known. I live in a huge community and no
one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone spends way too much
time online  or doing something.

 

Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they'll
do the same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings.
Australia doesn't have guns and people have recently began driving cars
into crowds of people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is
already banned in every place on Earth but it happens every second. The
most important thing is that we as the non-crazy people that we stick
together and figure out a solution. We can't continue down this road of
divisive chatter, not just here but as a whole society. Too often online
and on TV people talking about one group hating another and then
mitigate it with more hate through personal attacks, threats etc. 

 

Remember we're the good guys (most of us). Let's also remember we're on
the same side.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

 

Andy Trimmell

Systems Engineer

PDS Connect

317-831-3000

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

 

The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a
WMD is because plutonium is fucking hard to get.. 

 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
li...@packetflux.com>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

 

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have
prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that
with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would
have made much of a difference.

 

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you
have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational
gun owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of
guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the
information we have that this attack could have been carried out with
access to the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user should
have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should
be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, since that
would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this
list).

 

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped
is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert
non-automatic weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that
one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar
restrictions to "conversion" products. On the other hand, I can
think of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic
functions, many of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence
of 3d printing.

 

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause
here.   Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to
use guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is
how do we solve that one?

 

 

Gino A. Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
wrote:

We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and
yep, you gotta have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and
NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut
jobs.

On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:

I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the
pleasure of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we
purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they
can be purchased over the counter

 

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <
cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that
much ammo without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF
would have some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of
guns and ammo.

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-03 Thread Gino A. Villarini

The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a WMD is 
because plutonium is fucking hard to get..

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
"li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>" 
<li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this 
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible 
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a 
difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners.  In 
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo 
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack 
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the 
belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that 
path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to 
go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is 
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic 
weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that one would restrict 
automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" 
products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a 
semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish 
with the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here.   
Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to use guns (or 
other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve 
that one?

Gino A. Villarini

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without 
your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta 
have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut jobs.

On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of 
waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in the 
state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased over the 
counter

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without setting 
off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort of triggers 
set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of rounds 
plus electronics of some kind.

On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or 
so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire 
going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then 
there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"), 
then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.

There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's 
even close to correct, it is pretty scary.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

How long did this event last?
>From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he 
>killed himself ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Sterling Jacobson

What about medical history and medicine if any he was on?

I’m thinking we should have enough data with about one shooting incident a day 
in the US now, that would allow us to narrow down on the mental state of these 
people.

Because we can all agree it’s not a normal person that acts on an impulse to 
kill numbers of people randomly.

If it’s incidental, that can be harder to find, track and prevent.

But if it’s say someone on a prescription medication that has psychotropic side 
effects, maybe they shouldn’t have the right to a gun?

Three of my sons take such various medications for various mental things like 
that.

I would not want them to have access to a gun at any time.

And if they continue to have to use the medicine to function ‘normally’ in 
society, I would agree with anyone that says they should not be allowed to 
possess an unrestricted firearm, ever.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 10:05 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this 
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible 
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a 
difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to 
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners.  In 
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo 
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack 
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a 
recreational gun user should have access to.   (Assuming one buys into the 
belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that 
path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to 
go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is 
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic 
weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that one would restrict 
automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" 
products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a 
semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish 
with the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here.   
Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to use guns (or 
other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve 
that one?

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without 
your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta 
have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.

So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut jobs.
On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of 
waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in the 
state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased over the 
counter

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without setting 
off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort of triggers 
set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of rounds 
plus electronics of some kind.

On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.
On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or 
so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire 
going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then 
there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"), 
then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.

There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's 
even close to correct, it is pretty scary.



bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 10/2/2017 10:

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented
this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one
possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much
of a difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have
to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun
owners.  In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns,
restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we
have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact
same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to.
(Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun
users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up
leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic
weapons to automatic functions.  I find it irrational that one would
restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to
"conversion" products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways
to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made
easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause
here.   Access to guns is not the problem.   Having people who want to use
guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do
we solve that one?

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
wrote:

> We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
> without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep,
> you gotta have both on you to carry.
> Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
> 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.
>
> So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.
>
> None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut
> jobs.
>
> On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
>
> I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of
> waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in
> the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased
> over the counter
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> wrote:
>
>> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without
>> setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort
>> of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
>>> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>>
>>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15
>>>> or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic
>>>> weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a
>>>> big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it
>>>> as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least
>>>> 6 or 7 clips.
>>>>
>>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>>>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How long did this event last?
>>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and
>>>> he killed himself ?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>
>>>> - Reply message -
>>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>> Date: Mon, Oc

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread George Skorup

We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo 
without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and 
yep, you gotta have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.


So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut 
jobs.


On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure 
of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we 
purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they 
can be purchased over the counter


On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:


How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo
without setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF
would have some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch
of guns and ammo.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with
thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind.

On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup"
<george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
wrote:

s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many
minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could
hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire going and
going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene
described it as "30 seconds"), then another round with
another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.

There are probably eye witness errors in the above
description, but if it's even close to correct, it is
pretty scary.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police
found him and he killed himself ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <mailto:af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the
authorities can find a motive. I’ve got family up there
in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them yet.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Adam Moffett
    *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
    <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there
are a bunch of extremely fervent views on the
subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind
them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can
agree, without political discussions, that crazy is
crazy. And while I hate to see this like everyone
else, I don't think most freedom loving people would
be willing to do what it takes to stop all
potentially crazy people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on
the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy
<jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is
hard to believe that they are legal, and do not
require a machine

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

I only buy 5.56 and in boxes of 1000. I usually have a few around. When I
shoot I have a half dozen people maybe and we go through at least a five
hundred rounds.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017, 5:26 PM Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
wrote:

> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without
> setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort
> of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
>> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>
> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>
> s/clip/magazine
>>>
>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>>> or 7 clips.
>>>
>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> How long did this event last?
>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>>> killed himself ?
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>>
>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find
>>> a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard
>>> from them yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>>
>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>>> things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>>> will not last.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
>>> guns has got to change.  Fuck the

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

No doubt. 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 6:32:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

Trampling in panic 

On Oct 2, 2017 6:06 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 

No doubt many of those injuries were caused by the same projectile hitting 
multiple people. Going through multiple arms, bouncing off the ground, etc. 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 5:33:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

Based on the number of people shot (~~ 573 last report I heard), if there were 
only "6 or 7" of them, then they weren't mere magazines, but catalogs. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 10/2/2017 12:30 PM, George Skorup wrote: 

s/clip/magazine 

Sorry Bill, had to. 

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 

Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or 
so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire 
going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then 
there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"), 
then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips. 

There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's 
even close to correct, it is pretty scary. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: 

How long did this event last? 
>From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he 
>killed himself ? 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone 

- Reply message - 
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> 
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM 

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a 
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them 
yet. 

Rory 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

+1, let's please not get into a political fight. 

-- Original Message ------ 

From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely 
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. 
I am not sure the opposing sides think the opposition's reasons are valid. I 
think we can agree, without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And 
while I hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving 
people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy 
people from doing such things. 

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote: 

I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I expect that will not last. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 

Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. People died for no 
good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got 
to change. Fuck the politics. 

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" < cc...@wispmon.com > wrote: 

Well that is some relief. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote: 

FBI says no... 

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: 

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
> wrote: 

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas 
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who 
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room 
or whatever. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones 

< thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel 
luggage transport 

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
< losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 

wrote: 

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am 
aware guns ca

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Josh Reynolds

Trampling in panic

On Oct 2, 2017 6:06 PM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> No doubt many of those injuries were caused by the same projectile hitting
> multiple people. Going through multiple arms, bouncing off the ground, etc.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --------------
> *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 5:33:28 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> Based on the number of people shot (~~ 573 last report I heard), if there
> were only "6 or 7" of them, then they weren't mere magazines, but catalogs.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 10/2/2017 12:30 PM, George Skorup wrote:
>
> s/clip/magazine
>
> Sorry Bill, had to.
>
> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
> or 7 clips.
>
> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> How long did this event last?
> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
> killed himself ?
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>
> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
> them yet.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
> things.
>
>
>
> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they
> are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will
> not last.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispm

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

No doubt many of those injuries were caused by the same projectile hitting 
multiple people. Going through multiple arms, bouncing off the ground, etc. 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 5:33:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

Based on the number of people shot (~~ 573 last report I heard), if there were 
only "6 or 7" of them, then they weren't mere magazines, but catalogs. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 10/2/2017 12:30 PM, George Skorup wrote: 

s/clip/magazine 

Sorry Bill, had to. 

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 

Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or 
so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire 
going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then 
there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"), 
then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips. 

There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's 
even close to correct, it is pretty scary. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: 

How long did this event last? 
>From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he 
>killed himself ? 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone 

- Reply message - 
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> 
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM 

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a 
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them 
yet. 

Rory 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

+1, let's please not get into a political fight. 

-- Original Message -- 

From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely 
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. 
I am not sure the opposing sides think the opposition's reasons are valid. I 
think we can agree, without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And 
while I hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving 
people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy 
people from doing such things. 

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote: 

I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I expect that will not last. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 

Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. People died for no 
good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got 
to change. Fuck the politics. 

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" < cc...@wispmon.com > wrote: 

Well that is some relief. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote: 

FBI says no... 

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: 

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
> wrote: 

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas 
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who 
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room 
or whatever. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones 

< thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel 
luggage transport 

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
< losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 

wrote: 

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am 
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel 
bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. 
On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" < i...@avantwireless.com 

> wrote: 

Expect metal detectors going in immediately... 

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: 

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at 
the casino. 

Mike Hammett wrote: 

It would be irrational to change your plans,

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Jason Wilson

I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of
waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in
the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased
over the counter

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without
> setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort
> of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
>> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>
>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>
>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>>> or 7 clips.
>>>
>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> How long did this event last?
>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>>> killed himself ?
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>>
>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find
>>> a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard
>>> from them yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>>
>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>>> things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>>> will not last.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will ta

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Jason Wilson

Very easy. Anyone can buy ammo. Here in California, which us one of the
harder places to buy firearms, I can buy 12 handguns a year. One every 30
days. My wife can do the same. Long guns currently are as many as you can
afford.

On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without
> setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort
> of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
>> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>
>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>
>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>>> or 7 clips.
>>>
>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> How long did this event last?
>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>>> killed himself ?
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>>
>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find
>>> a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard
>>> from them yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>>
>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>>> things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>>> will not last.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will ta

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Bill Prince

Based on the number of people shot (~~ 573 last report I heard), if 
there were only "6 or 7" of them, then they weren't mere magazines, but 
catalogs.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 12:30 PM, George Skorup wrote:

s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 
or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like 
automatic weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and 
it sounded like a big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on 
the scene described it as "30 seconds"), then another round with 
another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.


There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but 
if it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police found him 
and he killed himself ?


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can 
find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but 
haven’t heard from them yet.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch
of extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with
logical reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides
think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree,
without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I
hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom
loving people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all
potentially crazy people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to
believe that they are legal, and do not require a machine
gun license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what
allegiance they claim..this was a massacre committed by a
fucked up person.  People died for no good reason. As much
heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got to
change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com
<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they
are responsible, not verified yet, but if true is
pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

    I have never been asked any questions coming in
and out of Vegas
    hotels. There are so many conventions they are
used to people who
    don't like storing all their expensive gear in
the conference room
    or whatever.

    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones

  <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

        10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real
estate for travel
        luggage transport

        On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorz

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Carl Peterson

How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without
setting off all sorts of sirens?  You would think ATF would have some sort
of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
>> s/clip/magazine
>>
>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>> or 7 clips.
>>
>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> How long did this event last?
>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>> killed himself ?
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>
>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
>> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
>> them yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>> things.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>> will not last.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
>> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well that is some relief.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>
>> FBI says no...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have never been aske

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Jason Wilson

The last half of this sounds like my house.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
>> s/clip/magazine
>>
>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>> or 7 clips.
>>
>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> How long did this event last?
>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>> killed himself ?
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>
>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
>> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
>> them yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>> things.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>> will not last.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
>> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well that is some relief.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>
>> FBI says no...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have never been asked any questions comin

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

GoFundMe over 1.3 million, long lines for blood donations, food an water
donations, free lodging at some hotels for families...that's is the best of
us

On Oct 2, 2017 4:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
> rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
>> s/clip/magazine
>>
>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
>> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
>> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
>> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
>> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
>> or 7 clips.
>>
>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
>> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> How long did this event last?
>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>> killed himself ?
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>
>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
>> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
>> them yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>> things.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>> will not last.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
>> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well that is some relief.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>
>> FBI says no...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of
rounds plus electronics of some kind.

On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

> s/clip/magazine
>
> Sorry Bill, had to.
>
> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
> or 7 clips.
>
> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> How long did this event last?
> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
> killed himself ?
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>
> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
> them yet.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
> things.
>
>
>
> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they
> are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will
> not last.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>
> Well that is some relief.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> FBI says no...
>
> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
> or whatever.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>
> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
> luggage transport
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
> aware guns can be disassembled to fit

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread George Skorup


s/clip/magazine

Sorry Bill, had to.

On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 
or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like 
automatic weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it 
sounded like a big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the 
scene described it as "30 seconds"), then another round with another 
clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.


There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if 
it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and 
he killed himself ?


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can 
find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but 
haven’t heard from them yet.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch
of extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with
logical reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides
think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree,
without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I
hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom
loving people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all
potentially crazy people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to
believe that they are legal, and do not require a machine gun
license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what
allegiance they claim..this was a massacre committed by a
fucked up person. People died for no good reason.  As much
heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got to
change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com
<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are
responsible, not verified yet, but if true is pretty
scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

    I have never been asked any questions coming in
and out of Vegas
    hotels. There are so many conventions they are
used to people who
    don't like storing all their expensive gear in
the conference room
    or whatever.

    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones

  <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

        10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real
estate for travel
        luggage transport

        On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"

      <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Josh Luthman

Nothing would make me regret not carrying more...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 2:06 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Could you imagine being asleep on that 32nd floor of the hotel when this
> started ?  Wow
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Jeremy" 
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 1:00 PM
>
> Yeah, this was a tough deal.  They couldn't even return fire without
> shooting at a hotel full of innocent people.  There really was no other way
> to stop him other than track down the exact location and breach the door.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 10/2/17 10:12, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> Over 20 minutes from what I've heard
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Local Vegas news is saying 20 minutes. I'm sure a good amount of that
>> time was spent trying to figure out where the shots were coming from and
>> then mobilizing to that position.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Steve Jones

Its not often ill be the adult in the room, but can we close this topic, it
will go nowhere good.

Im off in 4 hours, thats when my .bac starts raising, its best this have
idled down my unreads

On Oct 2, 2017 12:48 PM, "Seth Mattinen"  wrote:

On 10/2/17 10:12, Jeremy wrote:

> Over 20 minutes from what I've heard
>
>

Local Vegas news is saying 20 minutes. I'm sure a good amount of that time
was spent trying to figure out where the shots were coming from and then
mobilizing to that position.

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

Could you imagine being asleep on that 32nd floor of the hotel when this 
started ?  Wow 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jeremy" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 1:00 PM

Yeah, this was a tough deal.  They couldn't even return fire without shooting 
at a hotel full of innocent people.  There really was no other way to stop him 
other than track down the exact location and breach the door.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
On 10/2/17 10:12, Jeremy wrote:

Over 20 minutes from what I've heard

Local Vegas news is saying 20 minutes. I'm sure a good amount of that time was 
spent trying to figure out where the shots were coming from and then mobilizing 
to that position.

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Yeah, this was a tough deal.  They couldn't even return fire without
shooting at a hotel full of innocent people.  There really was no other way
to stop him other than track down the exact location and breach the door.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 10/2/17 10:12, Jeremy wrote:
>
>> Over 20 minutes from what I've heard
>>
>>
>
> Local Vegas news is saying 20 minutes. I'm sure a good amount of that time
> was spent trying to figure out where the shots were coming from and then
> mobilizing to that position.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 10/2/17 10:12, Jeremy wrote:

Over 20 minutes from what I've heard




Local Vegas news is saying 20 minutes. I'm sure a good amount of that 
time was spent trying to figure out where the shots were coming from and 
then mobilizing to that position.

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Josh Reynolds

We are now at 58+ dead, 515+ wounded.

64 year old, no criminal history.

His brother is in shambles in these interviews, it's terrible.

On Oct 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or
> 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon
> fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big
> clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as
> "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6
> or 7 clips.
>
> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if
> it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> How long did this event last?
> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
> killed himself ?
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> <r...@triadwireless.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>
> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
> them yet.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
> things.
>
>
>
> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they
> are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will
> not last.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>
> Well that is some relief.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> FBI says no...
>
> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
> or whatever.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>
> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
> luggage transport
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Bill Prince

Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 
20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic 
weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded 
like a big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene 
described it as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. 
There were at least 6 or 7 clips.


There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if 
it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and 
he killed himself ?


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can 
find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t 
heard from them yet.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch
of extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with
logical reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides
think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree,
without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I
hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom
loving people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all
potentially crazy people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to
believe that they are legal, and do not require a machine gun
license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what
allegiance they claim..this was a massacre committed by a
fucked up person. People died for no good reason.  As much
heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got to
change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com
<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are
responsible, not verified yet, but if true is pretty
scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

    I have never been asked any questions coming in
and out of Vegas
    hotels. There are so many conventions they are
used to people who
    don't like storing all their expensive gear in the
conference room
    or whatever.

    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones

  <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

        10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real
estate for travel
        luggage transport

        On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"

      <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>>


        wrote:

            Bet you surveill

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Bill Prince

I would agree with that. We (as a society) give short shrift to mental 
health, and all the associated issues. We have to somehow get beyond the 
stigma, and figure out how to detect, and deal with this very real 
health issue.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/2/2017 9:47 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
It seems like more research needs to be done on mental health and 
detection of mental health issues. While more difficult and more 
expensive, that would solve a lot more societal issues.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Larry Smith" <lesm...@ecsis.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 11:45:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I understand your sentiment.
The only people that obey the law are lawful citizens
and people who are going to kill could care less so
any "new" laws are by definition only going to affect
those who are already lawful citizens...

While guns are top of the current FBI list for homicide
weapons, next are knives/cutting instruments,
then clubs, hammers, blunt instruments, next are
personal (hands, feet, etc).

To be honest, more people are killed each year due
to drunk/intoxicated driving than all homicides put together.
How about we totally ban drinking and make a real difference???


--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon October 2 2017 11:25, Jaime Solorza wrote:
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy 
access to

> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>
> Well that is some relief.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
> > FBI says no...
> >
> > On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
> >> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are 
responsible, not

> >> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com

> >> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
> >>     hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
> >>     don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference 
room

> >>     or whatever.
> >>
> >>     On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
> >>     <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>         10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
> >>         luggage transport
> >>
> >>         On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
> >>         <losguyswirel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>

> >>
> >>         wrote:
> >>
> >>             Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
> >>             aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or 
travel

> >>             bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
> >>             On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
> >> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>                 Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
> >>
> >>                 On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> >>
> >>                     I won't be surprised if there were baggage 
checks at

> >>                     the casino.
> >>
> >>                     Mike Hammett wrote:
> >>
> >>                         It would be irrational to change your 
plans, but

> >>                         we're all just people.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>                         -
> >>                         Mike Hammett
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Simon Westlake

uting-solutions
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>>>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>>>>>         <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>>>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will
>>>>> be
>>>>> down from this
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>>>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  A week later and some of us may have been
>>>>> at the concert.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Robert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  A best friend and his brother were
>>>>> there and had bullets
>>>>>  wizzing by him and hitting the ground
>>>>> around him and had
>>>>>  people falling around him.
>>>>>
>>>>>  On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have a co-worker who is there on
>>>>> a vacation for his
>>>>>  birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
>>>>> heard from him yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
>>>>> Christian (List Account)"
>>>>>  <li...@packetflux.com
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
>>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

Wow 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 12:12 PM

Over 20 minutes from what I've heard

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:

How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he killed 
himself ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a 
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them 
yet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>

To: 
af@afmug.com

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely 
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. 
I am not sure the opposing sides
think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without 
political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like 
everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to do 
what it takes to stop all potentially
crazy people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died for no 
good reason.  As much heat as I will
take for this, easy access to guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas

    hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who

    don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room

    or whatever.

    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones

    <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel

        luggage transport

        On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"

        <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>

        wrote:

            Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am

            aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel

            bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. 

            On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com

            <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

                Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

                On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

                    I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at

                    the casino.

                    Mike Hammett wrote:

                        It would be irrational to change your plans, but

                        we're all just people.

                        -

                        Mike Hammett

                        Intelligent Computing Solutions

                        <http://www.ics-il.com/>

                        <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Over 20 minutes from what I've heard

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net
> wrote:

>
> How long did this event last?
> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
> killed himself ?
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>
> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
> motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from
> them yet.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message --
>
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
>
>
> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
> things.
>
>
>
> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they
> are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will
> not last.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>
> Well that is some relief.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> FBI says no...
>
> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
> or whatever.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>
> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
> luggage transport
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
>
> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>
> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>
> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>
> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
> the casino.
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> It would be irrational to change your plans, but
> we're all just people.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

How long did this event last?
From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he killed 
himself ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a 
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them 
yet. 

Rory 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] 
On Behalf Of Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

+1, let's please not get into a political fight. 

-- Original Message -- 

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 

To:  
af@afmug.com 

Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely 
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. 
I am not sure the opposing sides 
think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without 
political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like 
everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to do 
what it takes to stop all potentially 
crazy people from doing such things. 

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote: 

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will not last. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> 
wrote: 

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died for no 
good reason.  As much heat as I will 
take for this, easy access to guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics. 

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: 

Well that is some relief. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: 

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: 

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas

hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who

don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room

or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones 

<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel

luggage transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 

<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> 

wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am

aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel

bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. 

On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com 

<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at

the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but

we're all just people.

-

Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions

<http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL 

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL

<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>

Midwest Internet Exchange

<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix 

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix

<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>

The Brothers WISP

<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/

<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp 

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg 

<https://www.

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Rory Conaway

I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a 
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them 
yet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely 
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. 
I am not sure the opposing sides think the opposition's reasons are valid. I 
think we can agree, without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And 
while I hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving 
people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy 
people from doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy 
<jeremysmi...@gmail.com<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died for no 
good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got 
to change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" 
<cc...@wispmon.com<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote:
Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert 
<i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
luggage transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> 
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>>

wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" 
<i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> 
wrote:

Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but
we're all just people.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL

<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Hard to make the guns and knives comparison though.  Look at the last few
stabbing-related terrorist incidents.  The one last night in France stabbed
two people before being shot and killed.  The last one before that got four
or five people.  This dude shot over 500 people in a matter of minutes.
Yes, people will find a way, but high powered rifles sure do make it easy
for nefarious individuals to commit mass murder.

I am a gun owner, and I own an AR15, but I still think we need tighter gun
control laws.  At very least, people on the terrorist watch list should not
be able to walk in off the street and buy them.  We don't allow them to fly
on planes, but we allow them to buy assault rifles??  This shooting is one
that likely could not have been stopped.  By all accounts, this was an
average dude who just snapped.  No warning signs, no crazy ideals, and no
previous issues.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>
> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to
> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
> things.
>
> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that
>> they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that
>> will not last.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
>>> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
>>> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
>>> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well that is some relief.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> FBI says no...
>>>>
>>>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>>>>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <
>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>>>>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
>>>>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
>>>>> or whatever.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
>>>>> luggage transport
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>>>>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
>>>>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
>>>>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
>>>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Adam Moffett

+1, let's please not get into a political fight.

-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of 
extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical 
reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the 
opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political 
discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like 
everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be 
willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from 
doing such things.

I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that 
they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect 
that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance 
they claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  
People died for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for 
this, easy access to guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> 
wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, 
not verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of 
Vegas
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people 
who
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference 
room

or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for 
travel

luggage transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>

wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I 
am
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or 
travel

bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" 
<i...@avantwireless.com

<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage 
checks at

the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your 
plans, but

we're all just people.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL

<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix

<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

It seems like more research needs to be done on mental health and detection of 
mental health issues. While more difficult and more expensive, that would solve 
a lot more societal issues. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Larry Smith" <lesm...@ecsis.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 11:45:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 

While I understand your sentiment. 
The only people that obey the law are lawful citizens 
and people who are going to kill could care less so 
any "new" laws are by definition only going to affect 
those who are already lawful citizens... 

While guns are top of the current FBI list for homicide 
weapons, next are knives/cutting instruments, 
then clubs, hammers, blunt instruments, next are 
personal (hands, feet, etc). 

To be honest, more people are killed each year due 
to drunk/intoxicated driving than all homicides put together. 
How about we totally ban drinking and make a real difference??? 
 

-- 
Larry Smith 
lesm...@ecsis.net 

On Mon October 2 2017 11:25, Jaime Solorza wrote: 
> Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance they 
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. People died 
> for no good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to 
> guns has got to change. Fuck the politics. 
> 
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: 
> 
> Well that is some relief. 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: 
> > FBI says no... 
> > 
> > On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: 
> >> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not 
> >> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary. 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
> >> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas 
> >> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who 
> >> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room 
> >> or whatever. 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones 
> >> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
> >> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel 
> >> luggage transport 
> >> 
> >> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> >> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> 
> >> 
> >> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am 
> >> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel 
> >> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. 
> >> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com 
> >> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Expect metal detectors going in immediately... 
> >> 
> >> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at 
> >> the casino. 
> >> 
> >> Mike Hammett wrote: 
> >> 
> >> It would be irrational to change your plans, but 
> >> we're all just people. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - 
> >> Mike Hammett 
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> >> <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL 
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>>< 
> >> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb 
> >> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte 
> >> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/c 
> >> ompany/intelligent-computing-solutions 
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp 
> >> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL 
> >> 
> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>> 
> >> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> >> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix 
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>>< 
> >> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange 
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp 
> >> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix 
> >> 
> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>> 
> >> The Brot

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Larry Smith

t;https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
> >> The Brothers WISP
> >> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
> >>         <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
> >> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
> >>
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
> >> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
> >> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
> >> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> >>
> >> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
> >>
> >> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
> >> down from this
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
> >> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
> >> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
> >> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
> >>
> >> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
> >>
> >>  A week later and some of us may have been
> >> at the concert.
> >>
> >>  Robert wrote:
> >>
> >>  A best friend and his brother were
> >> there and had bullets
> >>  wizzing by him and hitting the ground
> >> around him and had
> >>  people falling around him.
> >>
> >>  On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>  I have a co-worker who is there on
> >> a vacation for his
> >>  birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
> >> heard from him yet.
> >>
> >>  On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
> >> Christian (List Account)"
> >>  <li...@packetflux.com
> >> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
> >> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
> >> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
> >>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
> >> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
> >>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
> >> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >>  I'm not really even sure what
> >> to say.  This keeps
> >>  getting worse and
> >>  worse as more details come in.
> >>
> >>  A different festival on a
> >> different night and I could
> >>  have been
> >>  among the crowd.  Makes it even
> >> more real.
> >>
> >>  -- *Forrest Christian*
> >> /CEO//, PacketFlux
> >>  Technologies, Inc./
> >>  Tel: 406-449-3345
> >>   >> > | Address: 3577
> >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35
> >> 77+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A
> >> 0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
> >>
> >>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Tim Reichhart

its not going to stop printing your own guns out on 3d printer just ftw heck I 
have the drawings for lower receiver for ar-15 that I can print using ghost gun 
software and there printer.



 

-Original Message-
From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 10/02/17 12:39
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Jaime,

I agree that guns need to be harder to purchase. I own plenty of guns and it's 
way too easy! I wouldn't mind one but if they made it harder to purchase one or 
go through a psychological evaluation for assault rifles that can do lots of 
damage.


Damn it I'm sick of people caring more about their gun rights than the rights 
of American citizens!!


Human life > easy gun ownership 

On Oct 2, 2017 11:29 AM, "Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they are 
legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they 
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died for no 
good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got 
to change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified 
yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones

<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
luggage transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"

<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>

wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com

<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but
we're all just people.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL


<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix


<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix

<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>



<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>

-

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

 Internet Exchange
>>>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><
>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>>>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>>>
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
>>>> down from this
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  A week later and some of us may have been
>>>> at the concert.
>>>>
>>>>  Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  A best friend and his brother were
>>>> there and had bullets
>>>>  wizzing by him and hitting the ground
>>>> around him and had
>>>>  people falling around him.
>>>>
>>>>  On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I have a co-worker who is there on
>>>> a vacation for his
>>>>  birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
>>>> heard from him yet.
>>>>
>>>>  On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
>>>> Christian (List Account)"
>>>>  <li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I'm not really even sure what
>>>> to say.  This keeps
>>>>  getting worse and
>>>>  worse as more details come in.
>>>>
>>>>  A different festival on a
>>>> different night and I could
>>>>  have been
>>>>  among th

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

/www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>>>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
>>>> down from this
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  A week later and some of us may have been
>>>> at the concert.
>>>>
>>>>  Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  A best friend and his brother were
>>>> there and had bullets
>>>>  wizzing by him and hitting the ground
>>>> around him and had
>>>>  people falling around him.
>>>>
>>>>  On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I have a co-worker who is there on
>>>> a vacation for his
>>>>  birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
>>>> heard from him yet.
>>>>
>>>>  On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
>>>> Christian (List Account)"
>>>>  <li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I'm not really even sure what
>>>> to say.  This keeps
>>>>  getting worse and
>>>>  worse as more details come in.
>>>>
>>>>  A different festival on a
>>>> different night and I could
>>>>  have been
>>>>  among the crowd.  Makes it even
>>>> more real.
>>>>
>>>>  -- *Forrest Christian*
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Darin Steffl

x>>
>>> The Brothers WISP
>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
>>> down from this
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>
>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  A week later and some of us may have been
>>> at the concert.
>>>
>>>  Robert wrote:
>>>
>>>  A best friend and his brother were
>>> there and had bullets
>>>  wizzing by him and hitting the ground
>>> around him and had
>>>  people falling around him.
>>>
>>>  On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>>  I have a co-worker who is there on
>>> a vacation for his
>>>  birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
>>> heard from him yet.
>>>
>>>  On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
>>> Christian (List Account)"
>>>  <li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>  <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I'm not really even sure what
>>> to say.  This keeps
>>>  getting worse and
>>>  worse as more details come in.
>>>
>>>  A different festival on a
>>> different night and I could
>>>  have been
>>>  among the crowd.  Makes it even
>>> more real.
>>>
>>>  -- *Forrest Christian*
>>> /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>>  Technologies, Inc./
>>>  Tel: 406-449-3345
>>>  >> > | Address: 3577
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35
>>> 77+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A
>>> 0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

I had never seen these bump stop devices.  It is hard to believe that they
are legal, and do not require a machine gun license.  I expect that will
not last.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
> claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
> for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
> guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>
> Well that is some relief.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
>> FBI says no...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
>>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
>>> or whatever.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
>>> luggage transport
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
>>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
>>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>>
>>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>
>>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
>>> the casino.
>>>
>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but
>>> we're all just people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><
>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte
>>> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/c
>>> ompany/intelligent-computing-solutions
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>>> The Brothers WISP
>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>>     <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/ch

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Well crazy is crazy no matter what.  I don't care what allegiance they
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.  People died
for no good reason.  As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to
guns has got to change.  Fuck the politics.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> FBI says no...
>
> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
>> or whatever.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
>> luggage transport
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>
>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
>> the casino.
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but
>> we're all just people.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb
>> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte
>> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/c
>> ompany/intelligent-computing-solutions
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>> The Brothers WISP
>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>
>>
>>     <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>> --
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>
>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 201

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Well that is some relief.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> FBI says no...
>
> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
>> verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
>> or whatever.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
>> luggage transport
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>
>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
>> the casino.
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but
>> we're all just people.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb
>> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte
>> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/
>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>> The Brothers WISP
>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>
>>
>>             <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>> --
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>
>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
>> down from this
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>> <par..

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting


FBI says no...

On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not 
verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.


On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
luggage transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. 


On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but
we're all just people.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>



<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>


*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com
        <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
down from this

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
<par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:

     A week later and some of us may have been
at the concert.

     Robert wrote:

     A best friend and his brother were
there and had bullets
     wizzing by him and hitting the ground
around him and had
     people falling around him.

     On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

     I have a co-worker who is there on
a vacation for his
     birth

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not
verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas hotels.
> There are so many conventions they are used to people who don't like
> storing all their expensive gear in the conference room or whatever.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel luggage
>> transport
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am aware guns can be
>> disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel bags...but 10 guns if report is
>> accurate...wow.
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>
>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>>
>>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>
>>>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.
>>>>
>>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+
>>>>> IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.
>>>>> com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.
>>>>> linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://
>>>>> twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley <
>>>>> par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
>>>>> wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
>>>>> people falling around him.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
>>>>> birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>>>> <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
>>>>> getting worse and
>>>>> worse as more details come in.
>>>>>
>>>>> A different festival on a different night and I could
>>>>> have been
>>>>> among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>>>> Technologies, Inc./
>>>>> Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,
>>>>> +MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
>>>>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email;
>>>>> utm_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-
>>>>> signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=
>>>>> sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>>>>
>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas hotels.
There are so many conventions they are used to people who don't like
storing all their expensive gear in the conference room or whatever.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel luggage
> transport
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am aware guns can be
> disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel bags...but 10 guns if report is
> accurate...wow.
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>
>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>
>>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.
>>>
>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> 
>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.
>>>>
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
>>>> wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
>>>> people falling around him.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
>>>> birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>>> <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
>>>> getting worse and
>>>> worse as more details come in.
>>>>
>>>> A different festival on a different night and I could
>>>> have been
>>>> among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.
>>>>
>>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>>> Technologies, Inc./
>>>> Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>>> <
>>>> https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
>>>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <
>>>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com <
>>>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Steve Jones

10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel luggage
transport

On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am aware guns can be
disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel bags...but 10 guns if report is
accurate...wow.

On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>
> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>
>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In
>>> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/
>>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com
>>> /company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> 
>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.
>>>
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
>>> wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
>>> people falling around him.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
>>> birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>> <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
>>> getting worse and
>>> worse as more details come in.
>>>
>>> A different festival on a different night and I could
>>> have been
>>> among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.
>>>
>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>> Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+M
>>> T+59602=gmail=g>
>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
>>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_sou
>>> rce=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-sign
>>> ature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-emai
>>> l_content=emailclient>
>>>
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed.  I am aware guns can be
disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel bags...but 10 guns if report is
accurate...wow.

On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>
> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>
>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>>> It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In
>>> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/
>>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.
>>> com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> 
>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>
>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.
>>>
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
>>> wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
>>> people falling around him.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
>>> birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>> <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
>>> getting worse and
>>> worse as more details come in.
>>>
>>> A different festival on a different night and I could
>>> have been
>>> among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.
>>>
>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>> Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+
>>> MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
>>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_
>>> source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-sign
>>> ature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
>>> email_content=emailclient>
>>>
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting


Expect metal detectors going in immediately...

On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 


Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 


The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:


    A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.

    Robert wrote:

    A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
    wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
    people falling around him.

    On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

    I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
    birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.

    On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
    <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
    <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
    <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:

    I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
    getting worse and
    worse as more details come in.

    A different festival on a different night and I could
    have been
    among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

    -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
    Technologies, Inc./
    Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
    Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g> 


    forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
    <mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
    http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
    <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
    <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
    <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>




    ---
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Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Jay Weekley


I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino.

Mike Hammett wrote:

It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:


A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.

Robert wrote:

A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets
wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had
people falling around him.

On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his
birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.

On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
<mailto:li...@packetflux.com
<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> wrote:

I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
getting worse and
worse as more details come in.

A different festival on a different night and I could
have been
among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

-- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux
Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g>
forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
<mailto:forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> |
http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>




---
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Simon Westlake

That is pretty nuts.

On 10/2/2017 9:45 AM, Robert wrote:
They are saying a full-auto .308 cartridge weapon(s)...  This guy had 
2 airplanes, Hi Roller suite, not insignificant financial position.. 
Probably access to a lot more.   Not in any category of mass murderer 
in recent history...  Unless he was related to the Bundy faction? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

On 10/2/17 5:56 AM, Simon Westlake wrote:
My guess is that he had something like this: 
http://www.slidefire.com/videos

On 10/2/2017 7:46 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Yea, I was listening to that same NPR report and it was definitely 
either one automatic or several disciplined semi automatics. Find 
that hard to believe. It is possible to fire a semi that fast but 
from that distance I wouldn't think he would be hitting that much. 
Maybe because it was so crowded he was able to hit without aiming.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:34 AM Josh Reynolds > wrote:

    There's video all over youtube, Twitter, and Instagram. I was
    watching the /r/live reddit thread as it was happening.

    On Oct 2, 2017 6:25 AM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote:

    Sounded like automatic weapons on NPR report.

    On Oct 2, 2017 5:16 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
    >
    wrote:

    Yes..no word s

    On Oct 2, 2017 4:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
    > wrote:

    I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
    getting worse and worse as more details come in.

    A different festival on a different night and I could
    have been among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

    --     *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, 
PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

    Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road,
    Helena, MT 59602

    forre...@imach.com  |
    http://www.packetflux.com 

--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting 


I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this 


On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
wrote: 


A week later and some of us may have been at the concert. 

Robert wrote: 




A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets wizzing by him and 
hitting the ground around him and had people falling around him. 

On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 


I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his birthday until Wednesday. 
Haven't heard from him yet. 

On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 

I'm not really even sure what to say. This keeps getting worse and 
worse as more details come in. 

A different festival on a different night and I could have been 
among the crowd. Makes it even more real. 

-- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ 
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602=gmail=g
 > 
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com < http://www.packetflux.com/ > 
< http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian > 
< http://facebook.com/packetflux > < http://twitter.com/@packetflux > 






--- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. 
http://www.avg.com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

They are saying a full-auto .308 cartridge weapon(s)...  This guy had 2 
airplanes, Hi Roller suite, not insignificant financial position.. 
Probably access to a lot more.   Not in any category of mass murderer in 
recent history...  Unless he was related to the Bundy faction? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

On 10/2/17 5:56 AM, Simon Westlake wrote:

My guess is that he had something like this: http://www.slidefire.com/videos

On 10/2/2017 7:46 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Yea, I was listening to that same NPR report and it was definitely 
either one automatic or several disciplined semi automatics. Find that 
hard to believe. It is possible to fire a semi that fast but from that 
distance I wouldn't think he would be hitting that much. Maybe because 
it was so crowded he was able to hit without aiming.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:34 AM Josh Reynolds > wrote:

There's video all over youtube, Twitter, and Instagram. I was
watching the /r/live reddit thread as it was happening.

On Oct 2, 2017 6:25 AM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote:

Sounded like automatic weapons on NPR report.

On Oct 2, 2017 5:16 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
wrote:

Yes..no word s

On Oct 2, 2017 4:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
> wrote:

I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps
getting worse and worse as more details come in.

A different festival on a different night and I could
have been among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road,
Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Kurt Fankhauser

I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.
>
> Robert wrote:
>
>> A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets wizzing by him
>> and hitting the ground around him and had people falling around him.
>>
>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>> I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his birthday until
>>> Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>> li...@packetflux.com > wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps getting worse and
>>> worse as more details come in.
>>>
>>> A different festival on a different night and I could have been
>>> among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.
>>>
>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> >> MT+59602=gmail=g>
>>> forre...@imach.com  |
>>> http://www.packetflux.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-02 Thread Jay Weekley


A week later and some of us may have been at the concert.

Robert wrote:
A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets wizzing by 
him and hitting the ground around him and had people falling around him.


On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his birthday until 
Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.


On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> wrote:


I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps getting worse and
worse as more details come in.

A different festival on a different night and I could have been
among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

-- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 





---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets wizzing by him 
and hitting the ground around him and had people falling around him.


On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his birthday until 
Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet.


On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> wrote:


I'm not really even sure what to say.  This keeps getting worse and
worse as more details come in.

A different festival on a different night and I could have been
among the crowd.  Makes it even more real.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting