Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Chuck Hogg]

I'd start contacting their tower owners...see if you can take over the
sites.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Air Link  wrote:

> If I were you I would contact the bank that is doing the repossession ...
> They might be willing to work with you to recover some of their loss.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
>> frequencies, etc.
>>
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>>
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
>> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>>
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
>> this company and basically their NOC has been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>>
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I
>> told them we'd discuss it internally.
>>
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
>> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>>
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
>> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>>
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you
>> can.
>>
>> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
>> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
>> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
>> the customer base would have departed?
>>
>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>>
>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
>> phone provider or cable provider.
>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>>
>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
>> hops from our head end.
>>
>> Merry Christmas. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Dave]

ROFL... didnt see that one coming


On 12/14/2016 08:52 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

harsh lewis


​

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:


Having done this before in less severe circumstances I wouldn't do
it again. I think if you could run over there, stack equipment,
sign a one year upstream circuit to make it quicker setup, then
advertise you would be way ahead.

My acquisition was a huge distraction from my internal growth.

If you buy them their customers won't give a damn about be
grateful. They will golf you responsible add if you ate the one
that drove them under in the first place. Either run away or stomp
them out of existence. Don't buy their troubles.


On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 4:20 PM Lewis Bergman
> wrote:

Agreed

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke
> wrote:

run away

If they're down hard and not coming back up, their
customers are angry and frustrated and disappointed, so
serious reputation damage has been done to their brand name.

Any money you might spend acquiring their network or
customers would be better spent, in my opinion, letting
them fail utterly and then doing targeted marketing (with
your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build network in
their previous service area.



On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
> wrote:

So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
buy them.
Then later that day they stated they were in a
contract negotiation with their bandwidth provider and
didn't see a solution.
Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had
been affiliated with this company and basically their
NOC has been
repossessed by the bank.
Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell
them bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down
- so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
There is likely no time left for vetting or due
diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at
this point it is likely a long shot.
My question - I assume you would all advise run run
run as fast as you can.
From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
can't provide service) what is the rate of customer
exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
all guess
the customer base would have departed?
I am told they have 250 + or -
I don't know if they're in an area where they are
losing to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)
I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but
they're probably six hops from our head end.
Merry Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance.





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.


--

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Dave]

10-4 on that one..
We have one here now in the same boat but somehow they keep coming back 
into the picture.

All UBNT gear. ..
Their facebook really ramped down their reputation due to not full 
filling their grass is greener promises.



On 12/14/2016 04:55 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


Having done this before in less severe circumstances I wouldn't do it 
again. I think if you could run over there, stack equipment, sign a 
one year upstream circuit to make it quicker setup, then advertise you 
would be way ahead.


My acquisition was a huge distraction from my internal growth.

If you buy them their customers won't give a damn about be grateful. 
They will golf you responsible add if you ate the one that drove them 
under in the first place. Either run away or stomp them out of 
existence. Don't buy their troubles.



On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 4:20 PM Lewis Bergman > wrote:


Agreed

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke > wrote:

run away

If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers
are angry and frustrated and disappointed, so serious
reputation damage has been done to their brand name.

Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers
would be better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail
utterly and then doing targeted marketing (with your own,
un-sullied brand name) of a new build network in their
previous service area.



On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>
wrote:

So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy
them.
Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see a
solution.
Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has been
repossessed by the bank.
Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence
on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this point it is
likely a long shot.
My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as
fast as you can.
From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't
provide service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just
in time for Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
the customer base would have departed?
I am told they have 250 + or -
I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing
to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)
I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're
probably six hops from our head end.
Merry Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance.




--

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

harsh lewis


​

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Having done this before in less severe circumstances I wouldn't do it
> again. I think if you could run over there, stack equipment, sign a one
> year upstream circuit to make it quicker setup, then advertise you would be
> way ahead.
>
> My acquisition was a huge distraction from my internal growth.
>
> If you buy them their customers won't give a damn about be grateful. They
> will golf you responsible add if you ate the one that drove them under in
> the first place. Either run away or stomp them out of existence. Don't buy
> their troubles.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 4:20 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Agreed
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>
>> run away
>>
>> If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers are angry
>> and frustrated and disappointed, so serious reputation damage has been done
>> to their brand name.
>>
>> Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers would be
>> better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail utterly and then doing
>> targeted marketing (with your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build
>> network in their previous service area.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
>> frequencies, etc.
>>
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>>
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
>> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>>
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
>> this company and basically their NOC has been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>>
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I
>> told them we'd discuss it internally.
>>
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
>> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>>
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
>> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>>
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you
>> can.
>>
>> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
>> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
>> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
>> the customer base would have departed?
>>
>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>>
>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
>> phone provider or cable provider.
>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>>
>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
>> hops from our head end.
>>
>> Merry Christmas. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

BTW - their facebook page reports their fiber is back up.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 5:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread


  Chuck has a point... Study the pros and cons.   Maybe an investment of a 
couple of grand with a clause to protect you And reap the benefits down the 
road 


  On Dec 14, 2016 2:18 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

But you may be able to get all the customers for little or nothing if you 
can keep them in service.
Once they find another service provider, they are gone for good.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like
they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run
away, it's a house of straw...

On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

  Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
  buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
  old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
  just in arrears to their provider?

  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
  <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
  network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
  own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
  I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
  them back up within a month or so.

  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  <par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

  __
  still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
  the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
  well, i don't need their head end
  but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
  educated decisions.

  - Original Message -
  *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
  *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
      *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

  Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
  can you make?

  In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
  assets can they sell to you?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
  Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
  <par...@cyberbroadband.net
  <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

  __
  So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
  coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
  Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
  buy them.
  Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
  negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
  a solution.
  Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
  affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
  been
  repossessed by the bank.
  Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
  bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
  Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
  so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
  There is likely no time left for vetting or due
  diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
  point it is likely a long shot.
  My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
  as fast as you can.
   From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
  can't provide service) what is the rate of customer 
exodus?
  If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
  just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
  all guess
  the cust

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Jaime Solorza]

Chuck has a point... Study the pros and cons.   Maybe an investment of a
couple of grand with a clause to protect you And reap the benefits down
the road

On Dec 14, 2016 2:18 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> But you may be able to get all the customers for little or nothing if you
> can keep them in service.
> Once they find another service provider, they are gone for good.
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>
> 250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like
> they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run
> away, it's a house of straw...
>
> On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
>> Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
>> buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
>> old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
>> just in arrears to their provider?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
>> network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
>> own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
>> I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
>> them back up within a month or so.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>> still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
>> the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
>> well, i don't need their head end
>> but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
>> educated decisions.
>>
>> - Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>>
>> Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
>> can you make?
>>
>> In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
>> assets can they sell to you?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
>> coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
>> buy them.
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
>> negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
>> a solution.
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
>> affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
>> been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
>> bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
>> so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due
>> diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
>> point it is likely a long shot.
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
>> as fast as you can.
>>  From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
>> can't provide service) what is the rate of customer
>> exodus?
>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
>> just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
>> all guess
>> the customer base would have departed?
>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing
>> to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but
>> they're probably six hops from our head end.
>> Merry Christmas. :)
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Timothy Steele]

If you provide them with a temp low speed connections to get them by you
keep the customers having faith in WISP's and customers to buy cheap. or if
you don't do it anyone that can get cable or DSL will likely just do that
and anyone that can't will be calling you and you get free customers that
way really depends on the impression you get from the current owners to
decide if you want to help or not but I would make them sign something
saying all your time and effort will be paid for or price taken off the
sale price

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:55 PM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> Having done this before in less severe circumstances I wouldn't do it
> again. I think if you could run over there, stack equipment, sign a one
> year upstream circuit to make it quicker setup, then advertise you would be
> way ahead.
>
> My acquisition was a huge distraction from my internal growth.
>
> If you buy them their customers won't give a damn about be grateful. They
> will golf you responsible add if you ate the one that drove them under in
> the first place. Either run away or stomp them out of existence. Don't buy
> their troubles.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 4:20 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> Agreed
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
> run away
>
> If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers are angry and
> frustrated and disappointed, so serious reputation damage has been done to
> their brand name.
>
> Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers would be
> better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail utterly and then doing
> targeted marketing (with your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build
> network in their previous service area.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Lewis Bergman]

Having done this before in less severe circumstances I wouldn't do it
again. I think if you could run over there, stack equipment, sign a one
year upstream circuit to make it quicker setup, then advertise you would be
way ahead.

My acquisition was a huge distraction from my internal growth.

If you buy them their customers won't give a damn about be grateful. They
will golf you responsible add if you ate the one that drove them under in
the first place. Either run away or stomp them out of existence. Don't buy
their troubles.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 4:20 PM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> Agreed
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
> run away
>
> If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers are angry and
> frustrated and disappointed, so serious reputation damage has been done to
> their brand name.
>
> Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers would be
> better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail utterly and then doing
> targeted marketing (with your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build
> network in their previous service area.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Lewis Bergman]

Agreed

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 2:03 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> run away
>
> If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers are angry and
> frustrated and disappointed, so serious reputation damage has been done to
> their brand name.
>
> Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers would be
> better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail utterly and then doing
> targeted marketing (with your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build
> network in their previous service area.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Paul Stewart]

I’d suggest it’s 24 hours before people cut and run, maybe 48 hours at most … 
same suggestion for you :)


> On Dec 14, 2016, at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on 
> frequencies, etc.
>  
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>  
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with 
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>  
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with this 
> company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>  
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told 
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>  
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day one 
> of their going away, I'd assume.
>  
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing this 
> ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>  
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>  
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide service) 
> what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for 
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>  
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>  
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent 
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>  
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six hops 
> from our head end.
>  
> Merry Christmas. :)
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Robert Andrews]

And that would be something to look at differently.   Throwing some 
money because you were curious is different than thinking it's going to 
be viable off the bat.


On 12/14/2016 01:40 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yes, I would certainly spend some money just to satisfy curiosity.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:37 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
Yeah, but we don't know why their overhead was so high... if they had
crazy expensive tower leases, then there might not be much of anything
with any value, but I'd say it's certainly worth looking into a bit deeper.
On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
wrote:

The point is that with 250 customers they couldn't stay in biz...
Overhead was already killing them or they were draining the biz for
their pockets...


On 12/14/2016 01:25 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:

I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases,
regardless of
what else happens, you could at least have instant access.
At this
point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat
and lose
everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the
network on with an
agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2
months,
payable after that period. If they have already burned the
tower owners
then it may be a run away situation as they have probably
left a bad
taste for wisps.



I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their
NOC.
Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.

One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[chuck]

Yes, I would certainly spend some money just to satisfy curiosity.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:37 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

Yeah, but we don't know why their overhead was so high... if they had crazy 
expensive tower leases, then there might not be much of anything with any 
value, but I'd say it's certainly worth looking into a bit deeper.


On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

  The point is that with 250 customers they couldn't stay in biz... Overhead 
was already killing them or they were draining the biz for their pockets... 


  On 12/14/2016 01:25 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:

  I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of
  what else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this
  point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose
  everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an
  agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months,
  payable after that period. If they have already burned the tower owners
  then it may be a run away situation as they have probably left a bad
  taste for wisps.



I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their NOC.
Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.

One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Just my guess from Tod bitshe may have gone through a rough divorce maybe a 
year ago and everything just fell apart.

All indications from the biz Facebook indicate it's a good company.  Facebook  
page now states they'll be back online by 6 pm 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
Date: Wed, Dec 14, 2016 3:34 PM

The point is that with 250 customers they couldn't stay in biz... Overhead was 
already killing them or they were draining the biz for their pockets...

On 12/14/2016 01:25 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:
>> I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of
>> what else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this
>> point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose
>> everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an
>> agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months,
>> payable after that period. If they have already burned the tower owners
>> then it may be a run away situation as they have probably left a bad
>> taste for wisps.
>
>
> I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their NOC.
> Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.
>
> One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, but we don't know why their overhead was so high... if they had crazy
expensive tower leases, then there might not be much of anything with any
value, but I'd say it's certainly worth looking into a bit deeper.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> The point is that with 250 customers they couldn't stay in biz... Overhead
> was already killing them or they were draining the biz for their pockets...
>
>
> On 12/14/2016 01:25 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of
>>> what else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this
>>> point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose
>>> everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an
>>> agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months,
>>> payable after that period. If they have already burned the tower owners
>>> then it may be a run away situation as they have probably left a bad
>>> taste for wisps.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their NOC.
>> Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.
>>
>> One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Robert Andrews]

The point is that with 250 customers they couldn't stay in biz... 
Overhead was already killing them or they were draining the biz for 
their pockets...


On 12/14/2016 01:25 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:

I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of
what else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this
point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose
everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an
agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months,
payable after that period. If they have already burned the tower owners
then it may be a run away situation as they have probably left a bad
taste for wisps.



I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their NOC.
Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.

One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Robert Andrews]

Little or nothing is not possible if the re-occurring cost of the 
infrastructure is already larger than the monthly income from the 
existing customers.


On 12/14/2016 01:18 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But you may be able to get all the customers for little or nothing if
you can keep them in service.
Once they find another service provider, they are gone for good.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like
they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run
away, it's a house of straw...

On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
just in arrears to their provider?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
them back up within a month or so.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
well, i don't need their head end
but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
educated decisions.

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
can you make?

In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
assets can they sell to you?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
buy them.
Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
a solution.
Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
been
repossessed by the bank.
Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
There is likely no time left for vetting or due
diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
point it is likely a long shot.
My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
as fast as you can.
 From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
can't provide service) what is the rate of customer
exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
all guess
the customer base would have departed?
I am told they have 250 + or -
I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing
to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)
I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but
they're probably six hops from our head end.
Merry Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/14/16 13:23, Cameron Crum wrote:

I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of
what else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this
point, you have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose
everything or get some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an
agreement like $X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months,
payable after that period. If they have already burned the tower owners
then it may be a run away situation as they have probably left a bad
taste for wisps.



I dunno... couldn't pay their upstream and the bank repo'd their NOC. 
Chances high are they are behind on other payments too.


One could offer to bring everything current, I guess.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Cameron Crum]

I agree with Chuck. If they are current on tower leases, regardless of what
else happens, you could at least have instant access. At this point, you
have them over a barrel. It is either fall flat and lose everything or get
some kind of cushion. Maybe get the network on with an agreement like
$X/sub who actually stays on for more than 2 months, payable after that
period. If they have already burned the tower owners then it may be a run
away situation as they have probably left a bad taste for wisps.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:18 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> But you may be able to get all the customers for little or nothing if you
> can keep them in service.
> Once they find another service provider, they are gone for good.
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>
>
> 250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like
> they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run
> away, it's a house of straw...
>
> On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
>> Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
>> buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
>> old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
>> just in arrears to their provider?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
>> network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
>> own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
>> I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
>> them back up within a month or so.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>> still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
>> the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
>> well, i don't need their head end
>> but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
>> educated decisions.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>     *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>>
>> Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
>> can you make?
>>
>> In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
>> assets can they sell to you?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
>> coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
>> buy them.
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
>> negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
>> a solution.
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
>> affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
>> been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
>> bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
>> so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due
>> diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
>> point it is likely a long shot.
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
>&

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[chuck]

But you may be able to get all the customers for little or nothing if you 
can keep them in service.

Once they find another service provider, they are gone for good.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like
they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run
away, it's a house of straw...

On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
just in arrears to their provider?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
them back up within a month or so.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
well, i don't need their head end
but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
educated decisions.

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
can you make?

In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
assets can they sell to you?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
buy them.
Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
a solution.
Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
been
repossessed by the bank.
Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
There is likely no time left for vetting or due
diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
point it is likely a long shot.
My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
as fast as you can.
 From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
can't provide service) what is the rate of customer 
exodus?

If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
all guess
the customer base would have departed?
I am told they have 250 + or -
I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing
to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)
I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but
they're probably six hops from our head end.
Merry Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Robert Andrews]

250 customers should have been enough to make them viable.  Sounds like 
they built in too much overhead and/or financed instead of bought.   Run 
away, it's a house of straw...


On 12/14/2016 12:58 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to
buy them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the
old provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP
just in arrears to their provider?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they
own those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative,
I suspect you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get
them back up within a month or so.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took
the "head end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals -
well, i don't need their head end
but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any
educated decisions.

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much
can you make?

In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what
assets can they sell to you?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
<par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

__
So there is a WISP near us who we recently started
coordinating with on frequencies, etc.
Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to
buy them.
Then later that day they stated they were in a contract
negotiation with their bandwidth provider and didn't see
a solution.
Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been
affiliated with this company and basically their NOC has
been
repossessed by the bank.
Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them
bandwidth.  I told them we'd discuss it internally.
Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down -
so this is day one of their going away, I'd assume.
There is likely no time left for vetting or due
diligence on reviewing this ISP for purchase so at this
point it is likely a long shot.
My question - I assume you would all advise run run run
as fast as you can.
 From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus
can't provide service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say -
just in time for Christmas - what percentage would you
all guess
the customer base would have departed?
I am told they have 250 + or -
I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing
to the incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)
I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but
they're probably six hops from our head end.
Merry Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[chuck]

I would certainly offer some advanced life support in the form of paying the 
upstream provider a bit to keep them lit until you can dig in and assess the 
opportunity.  

From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to buy them? 
Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the old provider 
would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP just in arrears to 
their provider? 

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual network 
(tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they own those) and the 
customer list... if there's no real alternative, I suspect you'd get the 
majority of the customers if you can get them back up within a month or so.


  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:


still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took the "head 
end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals - well, i don't need their 
head end

but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any educated 
decisions.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

  Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much can you 
make? 

  In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can they 
sell to you?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:


So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on 
frequencies, etc.

Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.

Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation 
with their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.

Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with 
this company and basically their NOC has been
repossessed by the bank.

Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I 
told them we'd discuss it internally.

Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day 
one of their going away, I'd assume.

There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing 
this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.

My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you 
can.

From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide 
service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for 
Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
the customer base would have departed?

I am told they have 250 + or -

I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the 
incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)

I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six 
hops from our head end.

Merry Christmas. :)

Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Ryan Ray]

Could you negotiate with their upstream yourself if you did decide to buy
them? Then it wouldn't take any time to get back online assuming the old
provider would continue to provide services. Is the failing WISP just in
arrears to their provider?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual
> network (tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they own
> those) and the customer list... if there's no real alternative, I suspect
> you'd get the majority of the customers if you can get them back up within
> a month or so.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took the "head
>> end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals - well, i don't need
>> their head end
>>
>> but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any educated
>> decisions.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>>
>> Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much can you
>> make?
>>
>> In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can they
>> sell to you?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
>>> frequencies, etc.
>>>
>>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>>>
>>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
>>> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>>>
>>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
>>> this company and basically their NOC has been
>>> repossessed by the bank.
>>>
>>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I
>>> told them we'd discuss it internally.
>>>
>>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
>>> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>>>
>>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
>>> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>>>
>>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you
>>> can.
>>>
>>> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
>>> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
>>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
>>> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
>>> the customer base would have departed?
>>>
>>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>>>
>>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the
>>> incumbent phone provider or cable provider.
>>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>>>
>>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
>>> hops from our head end.
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas. :)
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... all you really need (or probably even want) is their actual network
(tower rentals, the gear on said towers, and CPE, if they own those) and
the customer list... if there's no real alternative, I suspect you'd get
the majority of the customers if you can get them back up within a month or
so.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net
> wrote:

>
> still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took the "head
> end" and the tower rentals are just that - rentals - well, i don't need
> their head end
>
> but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any educated
> decisions.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread
>
> Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much can you make?
>
> In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can they
> sell to you?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
>> frequencies, etc.
>>
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>>
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
>> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>>
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
>> this company and basically their NOC has been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>>
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I
>> told them we'd discuss it internally.
>>
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
>> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>>
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
>> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>>
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you
>> can.
>>
>> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
>> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
>> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
>> the customer base would have departed?
>>
>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>>
>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
>> phone provider or cable provider.
>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>>
>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
>> hops from our head end.
>>
>> Merry Christmas. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

or satellitehahahahahahahahah.
talk about a grinch...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread


  That's kind of what I thought, though you're assuming they can get new 
Internet...I think Jay and I are in a position where it's us or dial-up.




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Seth Mattinen <se...@rollernet.us> wrote:

On 12/14/16 12:02, Josh Luthman wrote:

  In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can
  they sell to you?



A customer list is probably it if the bank took everything else back. And 
if they're already offline that customer list may be worthless as their 
customers get new internet ASAP.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

still waiting to hear any preliminaries but if they only took the "head end" 
and the tower rentals are just that - rentals - well, i don't need their head 
end

but yes, need a lot more information before i can make any educated decisions.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread


  Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much can you make?


  In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can they 
sell to you?




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:


So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on 
frequencies, etc.

Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.

Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with 
their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.

Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with 
this company and basically their NOC has been
repossessed by the bank.

Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told 
them we'd discuss it internally.

Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day one 
of their going away, I'd assume.

There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing this 
ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.

My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.

From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide service) 
what is the rate of customer exodus?
If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for 
Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
the customer base would have departed?

I am told they have 250 + or -

I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent 
phone provider or cable provider.
(I know they are in centurylink territory)

I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six 
hops from our head end.

Merry Christmas. :)

Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Josh Luthman]

That's kind of what I thought, though you're assuming they can get new
Internet...I think Jay and I are in a position where it's us or dial-up.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 12/14/16 12:02, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can
>> they sell to you?
>>
>
>
> A customer list is probably it if the bank took everything else back. And
> if they're already offline that customer list may be worthless as their
> customers get new internet ASAP.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Mathew Howard]

That could maybe work if it's possible to get them back online within a few
days... but if they're 18 miles away, it could take some time to tie into
their network, by which point half the customers could be gone... once the
majority of the customers are going, about the only value would be in the
network itself (assuming it's halfway decent... which is a lot to assume in
this business)... which you might be able to buy up cheap from whoever ends
up owning it.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If it were me, and I have no head for business, I would offer x bandwidth
> for 30 days for the holidays, no fee. However, you get to do some redirects
> explaining who you are, what youre doing, and for how long, while their ISP
> "reorganizes"
> buys you time to vet them
> buys them time to save face
> most importantly,  buys you PR gold, helping a competitor (and their
> customers) to get through the holiday
>
> if they recover, you have a partnership with a competitor
> if they fold you have more customers
> if they werent paying their noc bandwidth, i would guess any non customer
> landlords they had werent getting paid either
>
> its what id do, but im really a swell guy
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
>> frequencies, etc.
>>
>> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>>
>> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
>> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>>
>> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
>> this company and basically their NOC has been
>> repossessed by the bank.
>>
>> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I
>> told them we'd discuss it internally.
>>
>> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
>> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>>
>> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
>> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>>
>> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you
>> can.
>>
>> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
>> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
>> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
>> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
>> the customer base would have departed?
>>
>> I am told they have 250 + or -
>>
>> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
>> phone provider or cable provider.
>> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>>
>> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
>> hops from our head end.
>>
>> Merry Christmas. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/14/16 12:02, Josh Luthman wrote:

In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can
they sell to you?



A customer list is probably it if the bank took everything else back. 
And if they're already offline that customer list may be worthless as 
their customers get new internet ASAP.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If it were me, and I have no head for business, I would offer x bandwidth
for 30 days for the holidays, no fee. However, you get to do some redirects
explaining who you are, what youre doing, and for how long, while their ISP
"reorganizes"
buys you time to vet them
buys them time to save face
most importantly,  buys you PR gold, helping a competitor (and their
customers) to get through the holiday

if they recover, you have a partnership with a competitor
if they fold you have more customers
if they werent paying their noc bandwidth, i would guess any non customer
landlords they had werent getting paid either

its what id do, but im really a swell guy

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Eric Kuhnke]

run away

If they're down hard and not coming back up, their customers are angry and
frustrated and disappointed, so serious reputation damage has been done to
their brand name.

Any money you might spend acquiring their network or customers would be
better spent, in my opinion, letting them fail utterly and then doing
targeted marketing (with your own, un-sullied brand name) of a new build
network in their previous service area.



On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] wisp hanging on by a thread

[Josh Luthman]

Normally it's as simple as: How much does it cost?  How much can you make?

In this case...can they sell?  Bank took everything, what assets can they
sell to you?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> So there is a WISP near us who we recently started coordinating with on
> frequencies, etc.
>
> Last Friday, the reached out and asked if we'd like to buy them.
>
> Then later that day they stated they were in a contract negotiation with
> their bandwidth provider and didn't see a solution.
>
> Over the weekend I spoke with someone else who had been affiliated with
> this company and basically their NOC has been
> repossessed by the bank.
>
> Monday they reached out and asked if we might sell them bandwidth.  I told
> them we'd discuss it internally.
>
> Today I see on their facebook page their fiber is down - so this is day
> one of their going away, I'd assume.
>
> There is likely no time left for vetting or due diligence on reviewing
> this ISP for purchase so at this point it is likely a long shot.
>
> My question - I assume you would all advise run run run as fast as you can.
>
> From the time a WISP loses their bandwidth (and thus can't provide
> service) what is the rate of customer exodus?
> If we came to an agreement and resumed services say - just in time for
> Christmas - what percentage would you all guess
> the customer base would have departed?
>
> I am told they have 250 + or -
>
> I don't know if they're in an area where they are losing to the incumbent
> phone provider or cable provider.
> (I know they are in centurylink territory)
>
> I know our closest tower to them is 18 miles - but they're probably six
> hops from our head end.
>
> Merry Christmas. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>