Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
Ah, misunderstand the topic. Tought about several servers sharing one database. - Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, if the installer detects a utf8 oracle instance, it allows you to select the languages you want to install. Axton On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you run 3 server installation at the same time? -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I installed them all at the same time, the first time. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Form an early version of 7 I remember that the english version needs to be installed first, then the other versions. -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
Usually I refrain from plugging our product, but what the heck... ExpertDesk is out OTB application that has also full localisation support out of the box. By default we supply English, Dutch, French, German and Polish locales (views and error messages). On top of that we have a full data separation feature that allows for multitenacy, transparent for a user and highly configurable. ExpertDesk is data driven, so for most common things there's no need to customize the application using the admin tool. Our website is http://www.expertdesk.com and if you are a small shop you might be interested in http://www.expertdesk-saas.com There, I've said it :) Hugo On 7/30/07, David Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Hi Geoff You're welcome. Just as an aside, you may be interested to know that our own ESS application is delivered 'localization-ready' – that is with all the locale fields and amended queries in place necessary to allow you to easily add multiple languages to the application. Regards David Sanders Remedy Solution Architect *Enterprise** Service Suite @ Work* == *ARS List Award Winner 2005* *Best 3rd party Remedy Application* * * See the *ESS Concepts Guide*http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk/downloads/ESS_Concepts_Guide.pdf tel +44 1494 468980 mobile +44 7710 377761 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Geoffrey Endresen *Sent:* Monday, July 30, 2007 8:50 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** Thanks for the great information. It makes sense that I need 7.x. I'll guess we will plan that first. -Geoff On 7/30/07, *David Sanders* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a post from David Easter a while ago on using multi-byte character sets that you might need to bear in mind: __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
Form an early version of 7 I remember that the english version needs to be installed first, then the other versions. -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
I installed them all at the same time, the first time. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Form an early version of 7 I remember that the english version needs to be installed first, then the other versions. -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
This is a post from David Easter a while ago on using multi-byte character sets that you might need to bear in mind: I created a character field with 20 characters length. For character fields, Input Length determines the maximum number of bytes the field can contain. Since input length is in bytes, you probably created a character field of 20 bytes in length, not characters. This is documented in the Form and Application Objects manual. To resolve this, I need to calculate MANUALLY what could be the length of the value with this special characters, and make the field bigger... Correct. AR System developers tend to triple the number of single-byte characters needed in fields to enable multi-byte or unicode data. In other words, if you expect 20 characters in English, you should allocate 60 bytes to the field if the field may contain multi-byte languages. Is really ARS Unicode supported??? In 6.3, Unicode databases are supported, but the server is not Unicode compliant. Basically (and way over-simplified), if you wanted to support German and Japanese within your company, you would need two AR system servers - one that could support Japanese and one that could support German - connected to your Unicode database. In 7.0, the server and web client were modernized to be Unicode compliant. The server in 7.0 can now be used to process multiple languages in Unicode. Thus to support German and Japanese, only one AR System would be required. The Windows User Tool and Admin Tool are still not Unicode compliant. There are two white papers available about Unicode in AR System 7.0 and 7.0.01 on Support Central. The Link to the AR System page is: http://www.bmc.com/support/hou_Support_ProdVersion/0,3648,19097_19695_144856 _0,00.html Systems using Unicode data could not be upgraded to AR System 7.0.00. AR System 7.0.01 added this ability so Unicode customers wishing to upgrade from a previous version of AR System should upgrade to AR System 7.0.01. Further information about Unicode support is found within the AR System release notes for AR System 7.0.00 and 7.0.01. David Sanders Remedy Solution Architect Enterprise Service Suite @ Work == ARS List Award Winner 2005 Best 3rd party Remedy Application See the ESS Concepts Guide tel +44 1494 468980 mobile +44 7710 377761 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
How do you run 3 server installation at the same time? -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I installed them all at the same time, the first time. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Form an early version of 7 I remember that the english version needs to be installed first, then the other versions. -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
Thanks for the great information. It makes sense that I need 7.x. I'll guess we will plan that first. -Geoff On 7/30/07, David Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a post from David Easter a while ago on using multi-byte character sets that you might need to bear in mind: I created a character field with 20 characters length. For character fields, Input Length determines the maximum number of bytes the field can contain. Since input length is in bytes, you probably created a character field of 20 bytes in length, not characters. This is documented in the Form and Application Objects manual. To resolve this, I need to calculate MANUALLY what could be the length of the value with this special characters, and make the field bigger... Correct. AR System developers tend to triple the number of single-byte characters needed in fields to enable multi-byte or unicode data. In other words, if you expect 20 characters in English, you should allocate 60 bytes to the field if the field may contain multi-byte languages. Is really ARS Unicode supported??? In 6.3, Unicode databases are supported, but the server is not Unicode compliant. Basically (and way over-simplified), if you wanted to support German and Japanese within your company, you would need two AR system servers - one that could support Japanese and one that could support German - connected to your Unicode database. In 7.0, the server and web client were modernized to be Unicode compliant. The server in 7.0 can now be used to process multiple languages in Unicode. Thus to support German and Japanese, only one AR System would be required. The Windows User Tool and Admin Tool are still not Unicode compliant. There are two white papers available about Unicode in AR System 7.0 and 7.0.01 on Support Central. The Link to the AR System page is: http://www.bmc.com/support/hou_Support_ProdVersion/0,3648,19097_19695_144856 _0,00.html Systems using Unicode data could not be upgraded to AR System 7.0.00. AR System 7.0.01 added this ability so Unicode customers wishing to upgrade from a previous version of AR System should upgrade to AR System 7.0.01. Further information about Unicode support is found within the AR System release notes for AR System 7.0.00 and 7.0.01. David Sanders Remedy Solution Architect Enterprise Service Suite @ Work == ARS List Award Winner 2005 Best 3rd party Remedy Application See the ESS Concepts Guide tel +44 1494 468980 mobile +44 7710 377761 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
On 7/30/07, David Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To resolve this, I need to calculate MANUALLY what could be the length of the value with this special characters, and make the field bigger... Correct. AR System developers tend to triple the number of single-byte characters needed in fields to enable multi-byte or unicode data. In other words, if you expect 20 characters in English, you should allocate 60 bytes to the field if the field may contain multi-byte languages. Well, that's my point. First of all you'd have to manually check the fields (didn't we have input length for that?) and secondly you need to make your fields 4 times bigger (to hold 25 chars, size to 100 bytes) because an unicode character can be 4 bytes wide at most. This won't always work, for example for a field that should have a limit of 100 characters. BMC can document this all they want, and change the tool tips of the usertool to this field can hold up to x bytes, but again, my users are not thinking bytes, they are thinking characters. So if you'd ask me if that's proper unicode support, I'd say no sir :) But my bets are on the RFE that we've filed regarding unicode support, it's under consideration for a next major release. Hugo ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
Hi Geoff You're welcome. Just as an aside, you may be interested to know that our own ESS application is delivered 'localization-ready' - that is with all the locale fields and amended queries in place necessary to allow you to easily add multiple languages to the application. Regards David Sanders Remedy Solution Architect Enterprise Service Suite @ Work == ARS List Award Winner 2005 Best 3rd party Remedy Application See the http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk/downloads/ESS_Concepts_Guide.pdf ESS Concepts Guide tel +44 1494 468980 mobile +44 7710 377761 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk/ _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Endresen Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:50 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** Thanks for the great information. It makes sense that I need 7.x. I'll guess we will plan that first. -Geoff On 7/30/07, David Sanders mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a post from David Easter a while ago on using multi-byte character sets that you might need to bear in mind: ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English
With the 7.x server, if the installer detects a utf8 oracle instance, it allows you to select the languages you want to install. Axton On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you run 3 server installation at the same time? -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I installed them all at the same time, the first time. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Jarl Grøneng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Form an early version of 7 I remember that the english version needs to be installed first, then the other versions. -- Jarl On 7/30/07, Axton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the 7.x server, take care to configure the environment properly before installing: - Oracle instance needs to use a multi-byte character set (AL32UTF8) - Oracle client needs to be configured to support a multi-byte character set (american_america.AL32UTF8) - Remedy installation is pretty easy - Linux needs proper proper LC_ env vars set (speaking from Solaris background) The native client is still not fully unicode capable, meaning that there is a separate client for each locale, but if memory serves me correctly, all localized clients support English. Axton Grams On 7/30/07, Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 6.3 server is not unicode compliant. You would need to install for each language. 7.x server is unicode compliant.. Dave -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wireless) - Original Message - From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Mon Jul 30 12:33:41 2007 Subject: How hard is it really? Japanese and Chinese on same server as English ** I've never really done much in this area. From reading the documentation, it seems simple to install the different language Locales on the server. I'm thinking to start out wiith I would create a new field Locale Details that would allow any language entered, but keep all the other standard fields like Category, Type, Item, Short Description and Details in English so that Operations personnel (speaking only English) could actually read and escalated ticket except for any language specific problem. Other than the fact it would probably blow up my ARSperl scripts to display tickets via CGI, what else would break and what pitfalls should I assume. AR System 6.3, patch 021 using Oracle 10gR2 on RedHat RHEL-3 Linux Platform -- -Geoff Endresen Amazon.com __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
