Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I used to use Amazon almost exclusively, but after three years of struggling with their site's constant inaccessibility issues, I quit them and now only turn to them as a last resort.During those three years, it seemed that everytime they "enhanced" their sites, including the screen reader optimized ones, they were less accessible than they were before.The last straw came when I tried to place an order with their iPhone app and found that with VoiceOver turned on, it was not possible to complete an order. I had to switch to my PC to complete checkout. Then when I sent them feedback about the problem, I was told, "You'll have to get sighted help." Unacceptable!Audible is an Amazon company, and they charge too much for their books. I get more books than I can read from BARD and Book Share, BARD is free, and Book Share is $50 per year. Much cheaper than Audible's $15 per month, which works out to $180 per year. Most Audible book s show up on BARD within a couple of months after they are released on Audible. For free, I can wait.For example, "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" was released on Audible and Book Share the same day the movie opened, one month later, it was on BARD. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=267132#p267132 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Well, maybe my days with Audible are now over. I can't download books from my Mac. WHen I go to my library on the website, I can't find download links. The only thing I get is a link that says go to product page. Does this now mean that the only way to obtain Audible content is through the iOS and Android apps? I am very annoyed as I like listening to my books with my Stream. Does anyone know how to download the enhanced audio files? It's very strange, as downloads worked just fine at the beginning of June. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=267003#p267003 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I don't know what they charge now a days, but when I canceled my subscription to their streaming service three years ago due to vision loss they were charging $8 a month.I'd also bet that another reason that they are loosing members is dompetition. Time was it was just Netflix and Amazon, now even the TV and Cable networks are getting into it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257843#p257843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil We'll see. Netflix are already losing customers for their most recent price hikes, but they claim VPN users are "a vocal minority". If I were the Netflix CEO I wouldn't regard the outrage I've seen on this issue as symptomatic of a "vocal minority", but when you're Netflix, I suppose losing a nation of subscribers and a few die-hard global movie-trotters is nothing. Especially when your revenues are still going up, if only just.So it only remains to wait and see if this peters out, or gets worse. Meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures, for those people who were formerly subscribers. I won't be taking that course of action while there are alternative providers, and as a matter of fact I never subscribed to Netflix because I prefer to own my content on discs, but I do hope this is a turning-point in the war against geoblocking. In Europe, it's already on the books, thank goodness. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257807#p257807 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil The problem is that the people at Netflix doesn't know what the right reasons are that they should be standing up for.What's needed is a member exodus like the one they experienced when they tried to crank up their rates a few years back. They lost about half their members when they tried that, and had to back track to stop the bleeding of their member base.Until that happens, all your crying, will unfortunately fall on deaf and uncaring ears.The same goes for Apple. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257794#p257794 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Heh. Silly Netflix. This is all going to end in tears.And yes, they do get some of the blame. They have the market share; they should use it to twist the arms of the self-important arseholes who make this nonsense possible. Ditto Apple. But oh no, that money is just too damned important, and it's easier to follow orders than to show some balls and actually stand up to the studios for all the right reasons.Book for the blind on this matter by Jonathan Mosen: Imagine There's No Countries.And then, of course, there's the small matter of Netflix and others weaving DRM directly into HTML5. Bastards!This will all be over soon, like I said. There will be pain and suffering, but eventually, it will all be over. It has to. Continued use of DRM will, if nothing else, take on a more benign form, t hat doesn't involve the web or plug-ins, and isn't conditioned on silly geolocation tactics. Those whose interests align with DRM purveyors and who also make web browsers, like Apple, will probably not be long before realising the error of their ways because DRM in any form than a standalone application simply won't produce satisfactory results. There is a market out there of people who want--need--the content, and when you exclude an entire country you're just sending your users the middle finger. I can't wait to see what happens next. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257787#p257787 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Well, we can only hope, the studios will lose a lot of money through piracy. Some people apparently, need to learn the hard way. I wonder though, why never anyone said anything about Apple. I mean, it's actually pretty easy, to get access to the ITunes content of other countries... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257766#p257766 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Maybe, at some time, Netflix didn't pay attention to your location, but I'd be willing to bet that the studios or content owners eventually did and threatened to terminate Netflix's license to carry their content, if they didn't start restricting content to regions that they didn't have a license for.If you don't stop showing our movies or TV shows in the U.K., we'll terminate your license to show them to anyone.Netflix doesn't have any choice if they want to be able to offer that content to at least some of their customers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257751#p257751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil To me, it's blind mice for the win. They have described movies as it is. All they need is a better cloud instead of sendspace. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257658#p257658 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil It is not that easy, and Netflix is not fully innocent in this matter. They looked away all these years, without any problems. I wonder, what made them give in so sudden. And yes, the studios need to start to re-think this whole situation. If they don't act, they will never stop piracy. We can just hope, they will realize, what a mistake they made. In the meantime, well, I guess people will go back to download their stuff through other sources... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257624#p257624 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil You can't blame Netflix for that, just as you can't blame Steam for regional pricing of games that make many games either unavailable to some regions or nearly twice the price of what US customers pay.Like Steam, Netflix is primarily a market place to connect viewers to the studios that produce the content.It's the studios, not Netflix, that decides who can view what content, if Netflix wants to carry the content, they have no choice but to agree to the terms set forth by the studios.So, if you want to complain, find out who owns the content you want to see and complain to them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257614#p257614 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil And as if the cake needed any further icing, the Canadian Netflix users got royally screwed...http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/netflix … 99?cmp=rssDamn it netflix, and licensing! What does region have to do with anything! Another reason copyright nees some serious revisions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257596#p257596 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Although using a patch cable to record the play back from one device and recording it in MP3 format on another is one way to bypass DRM, it has two problems.1. You need to have access to a device that is authorized to play the media.2. Depending on the format, you can incur a loss of quality. MP3, for example, uses lossy compression where other formats use lossless compression. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257237#p257237 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
2016-04-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I have thought that people would have found workarounds by now, like using an auxiliary cable to transfer the audio from one device to another, and make an MP3 file out of it, unless that is a subject matter entirely different from the one in question.At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if our society collapsed in the future when major corporations start monopolizing everything and bending everything over to their will. That's why we have to, as humans, fight back for what is right, in the best ways possible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=257129#p257129 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @SebbyThat's why I only used Steam for games that were exclusive to it. Some other users say that Valve has promised and alternative unlock for Steam games should Steam ever be shut down, but so far no one has been able to provide proof in writing of such a promise ever being made. I know its not in the Steam software license agreement, nor is it in the Steam turms of service and Terms uf use agreements. So Valve can make all the promises it wants or other users can claim they have all they want, until I see it in writing, I'll just pity all the idiots that threw all their game eggs in the Steam basket.So if Steam ever goes down, all I'll lose are a few Valve games and a handful of other games that are exclusive to Steam.I handled Electronic Arts' Origin the same way.So far those are the only two gaming clients I've ever used, and now that all those games are inaccessible to me. I won't ever go back to using either one agai n.In the audio game market, the only game client I've heard so far is Guide Dog Games, and I have no intention of ever using them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=256915#p256915 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil This isn't DRM, as such, but it's closely related, because it highlights the true horror of depending on somebody else over the Internet.Revolv, an Internet-connected smart home automation hub solution, will shut down on May 15, less than two years after Google/Nest acquired it. The devices will cease to function, and the apps that control them won't be able to.This is Google, a large company. Even if you think you know who is trustworthy and who isn't, what guarantee do you have that this can't happen to you? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=256897#p256897 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Hey guys,I have read somewhere in this topic, that it is possible, to remove DRM from the M4P-files, which can be downloaded through apple music. The program noteburner was mentioned. So, I downloaded it, but the whole thing seems to be pretty inaccessible. I tried JAWS and NVDA. Could someone please tell me, how I can use it? I am not a huge fan of DRM. And I always remove it from the books, I buy from Audible. But I wasn't able to do it with the files from apple music. Would be nice to know, if it is actualy possible... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=256878#p256878 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @Figment,I think it goes back to the Audible dilemma in this thread. Sadly these companies hold the legal right to just pack up and leave with no warning. I'm not nearly wellversed enough to know what a good projection would be for that to happen, but I can assume if that does happen, millions of users would sign petitions left and right to get the company back or perhaps just their games (Steam provides a multi-player platform for PVP and other fun stuff), so even taking the games back doesn't quite do the justice...Just a word of advice: If you do use the Eloquence driver for NVDA by Code Factory, disable the activation every so often and reactivate when necessary. This isn't practical in the slightest, but Heaven forbid your machine takes a plunge.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251955#p251955 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Gene, you're allowed 3 activations for the eloquence sapi. If deactivated, an activation will be removed from your activation count. Ticon Blue were actually very good about responding to my questin oof whether you had to reactivate when downloading updates, since you had to re-request the download when a new version came out, and the answer to that was no, the game stays activated. I don't know about resetting activation count and why they ignored you, but I'd think they would be willing to reset it if needed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251843#p251843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil In answer to whether DRM is evil, my answer is no. What is evil are the companies that mis use it. What is mis use? Mis use is DRM models that clearly force you into a situation of actualy renting the content you purchased.As an example, consider TIconBlu's Inquisitor, the game only allows five activations with no indication of whether they will consider any requests to reset the activation count should you need it. I know I was ignored when I asked, so now I can't play the game because I can't activate it anymore. The end result of this is that I no longer trust TIconBlu, so I will never buy anything from them ever again.There are other reasons why I wont buy anything from TIconBlu , but for this argument, just their DRM restrictions is enough.What would have been more appropriate would have been to have the activation count reset every one or two months.I also bought Eloquence for SAPI from Code Factory. A couple of months ago its DRM f orgot my registration data so I had to reactivate it. What I don't know is how many activations I'm allowed and if it can be reset if needed, or will I have to purchase it all over again?I generally try to avoid software that requires online activation, but that is slowly disappearing as more and more programs require online activation.That is one of the primary reasons why I don't use Steam, or Electronic Arts, or Guide Dog games. What happens if they should go out of business? Some Steam users say that Valve Software would release some solution so they could play their games, but nowhere in their service agreement that you have to accept to set up an account is that spelled out, so its more likely that they'd just close and all the games you bought through them are just gone. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251800#p251800 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Where I am coming from is the desire to make audio games to sell at some point. If I make a demo version and the full version to be one, I would have to put some kind of DRM on it. If I separate the two different versions out, wouldn't that mean that I will have to maintain two version of the exact game? Add to that, there is a worry that someone, and we all know about them, will find a way to still them. As one that enjoy playing games, I don’t like having to put in the reg code whenever I install it on a new computer. Matter of fact, I really don’t like DRM on any content, but if I produce content for some kind of money, how do I recoup all the money and time I put into it? Awhile back, I got the falcon banner books. Guess what, I chose the PDF files over the IBook files. Why you ask? Simple, they were cheap, and as far as I could tell at the time, had no DRM on them. Last summer, I got Three-D Velocity. Guess what. It appears that BPCPrograms is gone for who knows how long. Of course, we have swamp, and we saw what the hackers did to that. One can, to some degree, say that swamp has no DRM. As far as I can tell, that is mostly if not all of the way true. Swamp can be played off line for free, but you need to pay to play online. In that case, it is the online service that is being paid for. I got a couple of movies from ITunes. Guess what? That’s right, they do have DRM, and not just one layer. It also has the HDCP stuff on it. That keeps me from playing the movie on my desktop. Why? Simple, I have no HDCP compliant display connected to my PC. On the other hand, the music I have bought from Apple has no DRM on it. It just has a water mark of some kind and that is all it has. As I understand it, the music you download from the applemusic program to listen to has DRM whereas the music you buy from Apple has no DRM. This comes down to DRM being here for the foreseeable future, and the questions and the like I raised in post 61 has to be answered to some degree in order for DRM to go away as far as I can tell. That doesn’t mean that DRM is good, nor does that mean that we have to like it, but it has to be dealt with every time we want a book or music or something else. The more I think about it, what makes games different than all the other content we make use of? Think about all the agreements we agree to. Do we as users sometimes agree for the DRM to be there? Do we have a choice? This topic is something that is worth thinking about at the very least. As far as I can see, dirty money is not the whole storey. A question iis rather or not DRM is a feedback loop. Sells think that need it because of some users share some to the point where there is no money in it. Then you got the buyer that really just want to do stuff with what they bought without the seller having a say so in it, and around the loop we go. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251784#p251784 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil See post 27 for my take on why DRM is evil.Broadly speaking, DRM means losing control. Even if we agreed that this was somehow maximally beneficial to all concerned, it fundamentally presumes guilt over innocence, and that's why I find it reprehensible. Even copyright law provides for more fairness than does the vast majority of DRM; you could think of DRM as an addition to law that is unstated, entirely one-sided, and entirely without alternatives in a marketplace that so easily accepts its presence. The fact that it is not actually illegal is more to do with dirty money than ethics. See also DMCA. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251697#p251697 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Well, what is evil? What is good? What broken? What is fixed, or better yet, not broken?Who's to answer these questions and how can we all understand these subjective terms universally?Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251693#p251693 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil That is an understatement. I don't even think that the whole copyright system has gotten it straighten out yet. LOL. So, is it DRM that is evil, or is the whole copyright system that is broken? Right now, I am just throwing in my two sense here hoping that no one goes off the deep end. LOL. Who’s to say that I went over the edge. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251690#p251690 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil CW,[[wow]]. I can't even think to answer all your questions. But I will say this: interpretations are a hell of a lot of the struggle in the game.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251666#p251666 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil The problem I tried to bring up per say is the problem of trust and when does it fit into this. some of whom knows about the DRM of audible most likely figures that audible is going to be around for long enough for it not to matter. Sometimes, people tend to forget about what happens when a company goes away. After all, audible has been around for to long right? A company like audible is in it for the money. They clearly don’t think that people can be trusted with DRM free books. This is a sticking point to those who really care. Add to that, it is clearly known how to remove said DRM. Another step in this trust line is the publishers of said books. Apple is clearly at the point where they can sell DRM free music and get away with it. Is audible at that point? Is it audible, or is it the book publishers that is the problem? I know that Apple isn’t selling DRM free movies yet, and I personally don’t like that. So please don’t get me wrong on this. As for Apple, is it the movie companies or is it Apple? As for blue rays, the DRM there is the HDCP or at least that is what it is called. Excuse me, but when I buy a blue ray, why do you as the seller think that the HDCP is a good thing? Oh yeh, you are afraid that I will find some way of copying it. Maybe I will find away anyway? Anyway, back on topic. So far, I know of no DRM that can’t, at some point, be broken. DRM has come into play partly because of money. You can say that the companies that use it doesn’t really trust the buyers to do the right thing. If a buyer does not, how easy is it to trace down? Think about all the different ways of file sharing you might see part of the problem. Let’s take a look at Windows. How many of us use windows. I bet you that most of us that do. Ok, no one has to answer the next question. How many of those copies of windows are legal? Ok, to hit home. We all enjoy audio games. A lot of the games we buy, we have to prove that we own it by punching in some kind of code. Could that be taken as DRM? Is that the same thing? Even so, we know or have heard of some people attempting to still such things. Can games be considered rent? Can windows be considered rent to us even though it is running on the computer we bought? When do we own something and or when is it considered renting? Another thing to take into account is transfer of ownership. What happens to such content, that we all like, such as audiobooks and music that we all like when we die? Let’s take this another step. How does one transfer ownership of such content. How can proof of ownership be proven if a transfer did happen? Keep in mind that data can be copied without loss to who knows how many different computers. Does the owner of such content revert back to the seller when you die? Who is responsible for backing up the content, the buyer or the seller? If the seller, couldn’t it be said that the content belongs to the seller? If the buyer, then wouldn’t the buyer have to buy it again if it is lossed? Seeing that ownership does come into play, how can we, as users of such content, and the sellers of such content be happy. Remember that if the seller isn’t happy, the product doesn’t get sold, and if the user isn’t happy, the product doesn’t get bought. At least, that is ruffly how it happens per say. In short, a lot of things need to be worked out before DRM goes away. Yes, it is not really good by a long shot, but how will this be solved? Oh yes, my head hirts. LOL. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251661#p251661 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil The problem I tried to bring up per say is the problem of trust and when does it fit into this. some of whom knows about the DRM of audible most likely figures that audible is going to be around for long enough for it not to matter. Sometimes, people tend to forget about what happens when a company goes away. After all, audible has been around for to long right? A company like audible is in it for the money. They clearly don’t think that people can be trusted with DRM free books. This is a sticking point to those who really care. Add to that, it is clearly known how to remove said DRM. Another step in this trust line is the publishers of said books. Apple is clearly at the point where they can sell DRM free music and get away with it. Is audible at that point? Is it audible, or is it the book publishers that is the problem? I know that Apple isn’t selling DRM free movies yet, and I personally don’t like that. So please don’t get me wrong on this. As for Apple, is it the movie companies or is it Apple? As for blue rays, the DRM there is the HDCP or at least that is what it is called. Excuse me, but when I buy a blue ray, why do you as the seller think that the HDCP is a good thing? Oh yeh, you are afraid that I will find some way of copying it. Maybe I will find away anyway? Anyway, back on topic. So far, I know of no DRM that can’t, at some point, be broken. DRM has come into play partly because of money. You can say that the companies that use it doesn’t really trust the buyers to do the right thing. If a buyer does not, how easy is it to trace down? Think about all the different ways of file sharing you might see part of the problem. Let’s take a look at Windows. How many of us use windows. I bet you that most of us that do. Ok, no one has to answer the next question. How many of those copies of windows are legal? Ok, to hit home. We all enjoy audio games. A lot of the games we buy, we have to prove that we own it by punching in some kind of code. Could that be taken as DRM? Is that the same thing? Even so, we know or have heard of some people attempting to still such things. Can games be considered rent? Can windows be considered rent to us even though it is running on the computer we bought? When do we own something and or when is it considered renting? Another thing to take into account is transfer of ownership. What happens to such content, that we all like, such as audiobooks and music that we all like when we die? Let’s take this another step. How does one transfer ownership of such content. How can proof of ownership be proven if a transfer did happen? Keep in mind that data can be copied without loss to who knows how many different computers. Does the owner of such content revert back to the seller when you die? Who is responsible for backing up the content, the buyer or the seller? If the seller, couldn’t it be said that the content belongs to the seller? If the buyer, then wouldn’t the buyer have to buy it again if it is lossed? Seeing that ownership does come into play, how can we, as users of such content, and the sellers of such content be happy. Remember that if the seller isn’t happy, the product doesn’t get sold, and if the user isn’t happy, the product doesn’t get bought. At least, that is ruffly how it happens per say. In short, a lot of things need to be worked out before DRM goes away. Yes, it is not really good by a long shot, but how will this be solved? Oh yes, my head hirts. LOL. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251661#p251661 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil This is also true. I was panning to the non-technical users since the ones who know the logistics of DRM are an infitesimal fraction of the population and demographic of those who are at the mercy of the evils of DRM. But also understand that those who are on this post aren't stupid -- in fact, I'd say most of the posts I've seen on this thread dig deep into the topic and truly do comprehend what exactly is happening. This isn't just a distorted or twisted view -- this is reality. But most of the consumers, whether they are nerds or not, don't understand what DRM is let alone its implications.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251655#p251655 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I don't even think it's limited to non-technical users. Technical users don't start out with an adversarial view of content providers, either. And why should they? If the DRM is particularly well-executed, they won't even know it's happening to them. And, even if the DRM activation step is very simple and they are aware of it, they probably think it not much more than a triviality, just a formality really rather than any kind of technical hurdle or impediment, and will probably be quite understanding. Especially if the only alternative is to go off down the broad path of evil. It's a great shame that such goodwill is wasted on content providers employing DRM, but part of the problem really is that it's easy to gain and keep, and rather harder to shake off. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251629#p251629 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil We are rather fortunate to have the knowledge on the subject. Companies know that they can manipulate their customers into buying their products that are laced with DRM. To the average user, as long as they can access the content, they don't care. They aren't aware that they, as customers who purchased a product, are (in my opinion) entitled to doing whatever they wish with the content so long as its personal.Copyright indeed does help regulate some of the issues with what is "personal" and what isn't, but there needs to be an equilibrium. DRM additionally hasn't stopped users from manipulating the content to their liking (stripping M4P down to M4A or digitally converting it directly to another accessible filetype) as demonstrated by the program I mentioned before. Most users, however, won't use it because they aren't aware of the situation. As far as they're concerned, "If it ain't b roke, don't fix it."Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251623#p251623 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil aVery good points, Cw. @Luke: Quicktime does come with itunes on windows, and quicktime player on windows. It 's built into the mac, but any player from Apple, whether it be mac gor windows, has quicktime. One of the windows software used to remove drm from songs, the engine was also used for vlc to play m4p files. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251499#p251499 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil First of all, DRM is best used for renting. Beyond that, you havea bit of a question to ask. The way you answer will depend on how you look at things to some degree. For example, are you buying or selling? If you are buying, you want to do what ever you would like with the content without question. If you are selling, you are worring, to some degree, about bringing in the money. Without money, you really can't go and buy the things you need to keep on making the content. So for you is the question, how much do you trust your customers? Like it or not, we have to deal with it daily. Take windows. Is it rented to you? MS would like you to think so, but the hardware you run it on clearly belongs to you. Add to that, people have figured out away around it. Basicly, if you include DRM, give your customers a good enough reason and someone somewhere will find away to remove the DRM you included. Ok, take those bluerays you just bought. Yes you bought them, but guess what? Yep, that& #039;s right. They have DRM. For me, that is going way to far. I haven't really went for audible. For me, the DRM is one thing that is holding me back. Add to that, they say I own the book after I buy it from them, but do I? This is another question that comes up. if Audible goes away, does my books? If you are selling content, those who buy the stuff from you will have that question if they think about it. The problem is, most people don't really think about it. How should this be worked out? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251408#p251408 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Seeing as how the Victor players don't support m4b files the way they do Audible files--somewhat ironic, given that Audible is encrypted m4b--I'm now in the situation of having to continue to use the DRM Audible format until Humanware support m4b properly.I sent feedback.Side note: the Victor Reader Stratus is an attractive option, now that Audible is no longer a requirement. I wonder if I might sell this Stream and get that instead. Again, assuming Humanware support m4b right. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251407#p251407 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Seeing as how the Victor players don't support m4b files the way they do Audible files--somewhat ironic, given that Audible is encrypted m4b--I'm now in the situation of having to continue to use the DRM Audible format until Humanware support m4b properly.I sent feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251407#p251407 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil That makes sense. I for one am nitpicky with audio quality, and burning to a CD just adds several steps that aren't necessarily the primary way of extracting the music. But the "Quicktime Runtime" you mentioned -- where does that exist in other players aside from Quicktime Player?Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251395#p251395 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil It is intended to be, yes. Or was, rather. There was still always a wway around it by burning it to a cd, but you'd get compressed songs if you did that. and not just itunes. Any player that had the quicktime runtime in it, including quicktime itself, could play m4p's. Quicktime was responsible for all the decripting, and itunes held the key repository for decription. Of course, the new version of the drm system, which btw was always called Fair play, that was used in Apple music, was more restrictive and could only be played inside of itunes, because it depended on the Apple account. And of course, those files would delete automatically. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251389#p251389 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil My appologies. I read online that M4P was specifically a particular file codek of its own. I just researched it again and now know it is just an M4A inside of a protected file format. M4P was something I hadn't seen before, either. So "new" is relative to my realm. However, that's just a small mishap on my part. M4P is restricted to iTunes and only computers authorized under the account.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251245#p251245 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil leibylucwgamer wrote:Apple Music does NOT utilize the M4A encoding. It uses Apple's new M4P encoding.Keep in mind Apple's m4p encoding is most certainly not new. And m4p is not even an encoding, either. It's a standard mp4 container file rapped in a drm. But this was used pre2009 with itunes purchases. The same restrictions were placed on the files, with some exceptions.1. They didn't expire, of course.2. You could burn them to a cd and rip it, to get some drm free versions, but they were recompressed versions so they would be downsampled. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251240#p251240 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil If you could convert m4a files with iTunes, those files were not encrypted or DRM-protected in any way but were merely AAC wrapped inside MPEG4 containers, which I'd gladly take over MP3, since everything I own plays them.Indeed, I think one of the reasons it's so hard to use iTunes is that every single change is first and foremost about keeping you inside the walled garden. But that's a rant for another topic. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251239#p251239 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil leibylucwgamer;What version of iTunes are you running? And on what platform.I was running v12 of iTunes on Windows, and two months ago converted all my tracks purchased from iTunes to mp3s so I could abandon the iTunes program. All my purchased tracks were in m4a format and all I needed to do the conversion was the iTunes program, so you might say that iTunes helped me to abandon it! Hahahahaha! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251235#p251235 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Figment,If you read my post before, you would understand Apple Music does NOT utilize the M4A encoding. It uses Apple's new M4P encoding. Get that through your head. I'm having a hard time explaining logic to you since it apparently passes through one ear and out the other.My appologies to those of you who are reading the seemingly arrogant and condescending nature of my post, some users tend to not read through the entirety of my explanation. I was once one of them, too.Sebby,Hmm...Well I guess practically speaking, further restrictive terms wouldn't garantee anything on the front of knowing what the consumers do. I know at least with Freedom Scientific's (great example) OpenBbook's license clearly states you do not own the program but merely the right to access it. If for any reason you are caught in any way shape or form doing something that would technically be considered violating the lic ense terms (God forbid), they, as the company, therefore hold that undeniable ability to restrict and possibly punish you if they feel it's appropriate.The work-around of this is hard to grasp.. Even typing it is giving me a hard time...However, I would also like to point out (Figment) I do still have my Apple Music subscription, which you seem to know the status of given the nature of your previous reply. Try to understand where you are coming from, first. Your assertions I've read thus far are highly provincial and hold no proof. Again, I implore you to read through my responses. I've explained the technology of Apple Music for the second time now.DRM can be very tricky. I'm speaking in the context of specifically Apple Music. The one side of the argument is that Apple Music on iTunes 12.2 and above now supports downloaded streaming material. However, it can only be accessed through iTunes its elf and no other third-party media player I've testred so far, which have been the mainstreamed ones such as WMP, VLC, and Winamp.Spotify works much the same way, but it's completely restricted. With Apple, you at least have the option to remove the encoding and access the files let alone decode them.Regarding the ownership versus licensing, it's all perception. When you purchase a program, you don't get the entire software right off the bat. A license key is sent to you in order to (activate) the software. You are buying a key, not the program. You essentially are buying the program as a subsequence from purchasing the key, but the key is directly what you are distributed. Take Jaws, for example. You get functionality of Jaws, but without the (product key), the program will run in 40-minute mode. Once activated with the license key you've purchased, you get full functionality. I understand not every single program works this way, but it's an example to start with.My problem lies with the amount of keys you are permitted upon your purchase. I recently bought Code Factory's Eloquence/Vocalizer voices for NVDA. Long story short, if I lose three activations due to system malfunction and restoration without consulting the company, I lose that key. Three strikes, you're out, is the policy they seem to have adopted. They have stated explicitly that you will not get a refund and must purchase a new set of keys again.If a user buys a set of keys and some occurrences come out of nowhere that the user would otherwise not be able to help, it is not the user's fault that he or she lost the keys. However, I do also understand that companies have to make money. And if a friend wants to give a family access to products that give companies hundreds of green devils, they could under older programs. The Internet verification method has been widely adopted and practiced. Cloud access is now more mainstreamed. Offline access is becoming decreasingly prevalent -- maybe not to a high degree, but nevertheless it is declining.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251219#p251219 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil leibylucwgamer;The whole idea behind Apple Music is that it is a subscription service, which means that you have the right to access the music as long as your subscription to Apple Music is current. By removing the DRM you remove that restriction thus allowing you to cancel your Apple Music subscription and yet be able to continue to access the music you removed the DRM from which is not provided for in Apple Music's terms of service.For purchased music, the iTunes program itself has a function to convert the DRM protected m4a files to unprotected mp3s so no third party DRM removal tool is needed.It is because of you and people like you who don't respect the rights of content owners that DRM exists so you have no one to blame but yourselves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251161#p251161 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil leibylucwgamer;The whole idea behind Apple Music is that it is a subscription service, which means that you have the right to access the music as long as your subscription to Apple Music is current. By removing the DRM you remove that restriction thus allowing you to cancel your Apple Music subscription and yet be able to continue to access the music you removed the DRM from which is not provided for in Apple Music's terms of service.For purchased music, the iTunes program itself has a function to convert the DRM protected m4a files to unprotected mp3s so no third party DRM removal tool is needed.It is because of you and people like you that DRM exists so you have no one to blame but yourselves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251161#p251161 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Well, I certainly think Apple Music would be more useful without the DRM, but nevertheless it is intended as a _streaming_ service. That's why it has DRM. You could certainly argue that mere availability was reason enough to surrender that kind of control, but one of the biggest arguments made by DRM proponents is precisely that it enables models of distribution (like renting) that would not otherwise be supportable. I don't believe such models necessarily require DRM; the fact that people think so is merely a reflection of their overriding cynicism. But still.I'm not sure ownership is about licensing rather than material possession, either. It'd be interesting to see how these license agreements held up in court, but at least on this soggy little island, it's pretty clear that once you've made a sale, you can't then restrain the use of the product with further terms; the sale constitutes the irrevocable agreement between buyer and seller for the transfer of the goods in exchange for payment. I don't see why that shouldn't apply equally to digital as physical goods. Of course, the rights holders would really like you to think that digital goods are in any case different, but that doesn't matter as long as you can continue to purchase the physical article (upon which the digital content is carried).We live in interesting times ... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251154#p251154 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil There is also another program designated for Spotify. However, there are no clauses in the Apple Music terms and conditions (which I read in its entirety) that prohibit the use of third-party programs to remove the DRM encoding. When you are subscribed to an Apple Music term, you are authorized to access the content through Apple devices and appropriate software. I think it's ridiculous to assume (on the service providers' behalf) that its subscribers are blocked from storing restrictive-free music if we have the legal means to do so. If we paid for the service, we pay for the rights to access the music. Likewise, when you purchase something from the iTunes store, you own the personal right to that content -- you don't own the material. The difference is that you're paying on a larger-scaled system. Additionally, Apple Music only works on Windows with the iTunes player, because Apple is Apple. No VLC Player, no Wi ndows Media Player, nothing. The fact of the matter is that these companies (mostly Apple) can and are limiting the manipulation upon the user's disclosure.This goes back to my post about how companies are controlling their users. Quite absurd, and in some cases, unfair.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=251113#p251113 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Oh, you mean Apple Music, the streaming subscription service. I'd rather there weren't DRM on that either, but I also can't think of any situation currently where I'd want to strip it. You certainly shouldn't be keeping the resulting DRM-free music, in any event; it's a streaming service, so you're not supposed to keep the music for life, but destroy it when you stop being subscribed to the service. At least, I *hope* that's what you're doing ... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250997#p250997 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @Figment,I said Apple Music. The M4P file extension is found on downloaded content to a computer. M4A uses the M4P encoding to use the DRM Apple has brutally subjected its consumers to.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250996#p250996 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Fair enough. I'd give them money for dropping the DRM, that's for sure, but 5 activations for life is simply unacceptable. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250925#p250925 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil The only iOS device I have is an iPhone 5s that I just decided to keep in lue of getting an iPhone 6s, and that is for communication and information, not for entertainment. For entertainment I have a Victor Reader Stream, and for game playing I have my laptop PC. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250864#p250864 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil You mean audiogame.it? Yeah, I'm not putting up with that bullshit either. I wish they'd told me before I purchased my first game from them. Just buy from the iOS App Store; it's still DRM, but at least it's a whole lot less likely to break. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250859#p250859 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil That's why I avoid software that requires online activation as much as possible. For most games, that means buying a physical box with discs inside. Most of those use a discs check instead of online activation. So I'm not dependant on some server being accessible to play my games. That's why I never got into Steam and objected to that similar service I've seen around here that was trying to cater to audio games.It meant that I missed out on a lot of games, unless I was willing to grab a cracked copy, which I wasn't, that's in the list of top ten ways malware gets distributed, better to just skip it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250849#p250849 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil There is no problem with "Intellectual property" owners protecting it. I merely insist that it not punish the rightful owner of the product bearing it. DRM is incompatible with that. Best case, ask your consumers to cooperate with you in protecting your work. If there's a cost to the consumer--for instance, if the consumer needs to be always online, or needs to get permission to reset the activation count, or whatever, and that cost places the burden of proving innocence on said consumer, instead of guilt on the pirate of the IP, solely for the benefit of the person who sold it to you, then it's unjust.Now, if you don't mind the DRM, and it doesn't hurt you, and if the net effect is that the content is protected from would-be pirates, then great! But if ever there should exist the possibility that this no longer be the case, for example you run out of activations in the middle of the night, your Internet connection goes down for a while, or the business goes bust, or whatever, then the burden should fall to the content owner, and not the consumer. It is the former's problem to solve and not the latter. Certainly the former promises that the latter should be able to use what they paid for; if they did not, then there should be no sale, and the DRM purveyor should simply tell the consumer up-front that their product may at any time not function as advertised because of the protection measures it incorporates. Perhaps change from "Sale" to "Rent" since that is after all a more accurate description, with reduced prices to match.Let's have another silly, but apt, analogy. Shops are often the victim of casual theft. We solve that problem by finding and punishing the thieves, because they break the law. We don't tag and track every shop-goer with portable cameras that follow the purchaser of goods to their homes and observe them using those products rather than selling them on at a profi t, just in case it turns out one of them is making money from theft. Shops soak up more in theft than software houses lose to piracy, and theft actually results in lost revenue, where piracy might not even make a dent in projected sales targets because the creator has long since recouped all of the costs and are now taking in pure profit from distribution.So yeah, I really don't mind compensating people for their work. I absolutely mind shouldering their problems. They are not mine to solve, and I suffer by participating in a scheme which vainly attempts to solve those problems for them, at my expense, for no good reason. I am not compensated for that inconvenience, and once they have my money they have no real incentive to support me when the cost-benefit does not align in their favour, no matter the clear ethical impropriety in separating me from my money. Indeed, the closest I've ever got to satisfactory DRM is with software that gets regular upgrades for a reaso nable number of computers that is not arbitrary but is purely for the benefit of the developer to know which keys are being pirated; in that case the upgrades pay for continual availability to the DRM servers, but you've still got the issues of malice, bankruptcy, etc. and now you're not really selling software, but a subscription. I could probably live with that if it were made clear up-front and the prices made sense.JMO, of course. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250831#p250831 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I guess the bottom line is that I simply don't understand how or why everyone feels that it is wrong for content creators to protect their intellectual property from thieves. Do you all leave your homes unlocked while you're away? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250823#p250823 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @jaybird got your email; will deal with it soon. Deluged at the mo. And I agree with your stance; as a rule, cutting yourself off doesn't help any if you have the means to drop the DRM. Although of course I wish Audible wouldn't use it to start with.Our libraries offer books from Overdrive, which uses MP3, or on unprotected USB DAISy sticks. I think it's a shame that they screw you up like that in the US, but I suppose the players you need are already specialised, so it's less bad. Of course, it's not good, either, and I'm fairly sure I'd feel the pain sooner or later if I were over there. Then again, my government pays me to get my own technology, so there are less perverse incentives forcing me into one format over another, or one player over another, and there is likely to be a much better case for supporting multiple players and therefore DRM would be a whole lot less useful. As it stands I can listen to the RNIB's talking books o n an off-the-shelf MP3 player, which cost me almost nothing. Fabulous. This is a sad story, made worse by the writer's choice to avoid iOS intentionally.iTunes DRM is only present on movies. Their audiobooks come from Audible, so buy from Audible direct. Music is unprotected.If you email me, I'll send you links to inAudible. At the moment I'd struggle to post it to a server outside the US which would make it vulnerable to the wankers that be, so we'll have to keep it secret until such time as I can host it at home.@Figment: I wouldn't say I was negative, I just think DRM is unjust. I've experienced too many cases of it failing to do what it claims, and of course this is particularly the case for blind people because DRM schemes aren't designed with us in mind. Would I choose to throw everyone under a bus for a DRM scheme that actually worked and was the only way to get access to stuff? Yeah, probably. But it would be a shame, because it would still be unjust. I don't want to live in a Brave New World under the shelter of materialist consumerism if I can possibly help it. A gram is better than a damn, and all that. If you are in the US, then this comment by the FSF to the US Copyright Office wants your signature. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250814#p250814 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @jaybird got your email; will deal with it soon. Deluged at the mo. And I agree with your stance; as a rule, cutting yourself off doesn't help any if you have the means to drop the DRM. Although of course I wish Audible wouldn't use it to start with.Our libraries offer books from Overdrive, which uses MP3, or on unprotected USB DAISy sticks. I think it's a shame that they screw you up like that in the US, but I suppose the players you need are already specialised, so it's less bad. Of course, it's not good, either, and I'm fairly sure I'd feel the pain sooner or later if I were over there. Then again, my government pays me to get my own technology, so there are less perverse incentives forcing me into one format over another, or one player over another, and there is likely to be a much better case for supporting multiple players and therefore DRM would be a whole lot less useful. As it stands I can listen to the RNIB's talking books o n an off-the-shelf MP3 player, which cost me almost nothing. Fabulous. This is a sad story, made worse by the writer's choice to avoid iOS intentionally.iTunes DRM is only present on movies. Their audiobooks come from Audible, so buy from Audible direct. Music is unprotected.If you email me, I'll send you links to inAudible. At the moment I'd struggle to post it to a server outside the US which would make it vulnerable to the wankers that be, so we'll have to keep it secret until such time as I can host it at home.@Figment: I wouldn't say I was negative, I just think DRM is unjust. I've experienced too many cases of it failing to do what it claims, and of course this is particularly the case for blind people because DRM schemes aren't designed with us in mind. Would I choose to throw everyone under a bus for a DRM scheme that actually worked and was the only way to get access to stuff? Yeah, probably. But it would be a shame, because it would still be unjust. I don't want to live in a Brave New World under the shelter of materialist consumerism if I can possibly help it. A gram is better than a damn, and all that. If you are in the US, then this comment by the FSF to the Library of Congress wants your signature. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250814#p250814 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil OK, found two links bound for New Zealand (mega.co.nz). Requires Chrome or Flash for download. Hope you can handle that.For Windows (1.71).For Mac (0.09).The Windows version is probably the superior because it performs batch conversions. But as I explained above, it's no hardship to a Mac user with skill at the command line either; if you need help, feel free to follow up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250817#p250817 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil OK, found two links bound for New Zealand (mega.co.nz). Requires Chrome or Flash for download. Hope you can handle that.For Windows (1.71).For Mac (0.09).The Windows version is probably the superior because it performs batch conversions. But as I explained above, it's no hardship to a Mac user with skill at the command line either; if you need help, feel free to follow up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250817#p250817 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @jaybird got your email; will deal with it soon. Deluged at the mo. And I agree with your stance; as a rule, cutting yourself off doesn't help any if you have the means to drop the DRM. Although of course I wish Audible wouldn't use it to start with.Our libraries offer books from Overdrive, which uses MP3, or on unprotected USB DAISy sticks. I think it's a shame that they screw you up like that in the US, but I suppose the players you need are already specialised, so it's less bad. Of course, it's not good, either, and I'm fairly sure I'd feel the pain sooner or later if I were over there. Then again, my government pays me to get my own technology, so there are less perverse incentives forcing me into one format over another, or one player over another, and there is likely to be a much better case for supporting multiple players and therefore DRM would be a whole lot less useful. As it stands I can listen to the RNIB's talking books o n an off-the-shelf MP3 player, which cost me almost nothing. Fabulous. This is a sad story, made worse by the writer's choice to avoid iOS intentionally.iTunes DRM is only present on movies. Their audiobooks come from Audible, so buy from Audible direct. Music is unprotected.If you email me, I'll send you links to inAudible. At the moment I'd struggle to post it to a server outside the US which would make it vulnerable to the wankers that be, so we'll have to keep it secret until such time as I can host it at home.@Figment: I wouldn't say I was negative, I just think DRM is unjust. I've experienced too many cases of it failing to do what it claims, and of course this is particularly the case for blind people because DRM schemes aren't designed with us in mind. Would I choose to throw everyone under a bus for a DRM scheme that actually worked and was the only way to get access to stuff? Yeah, probably. But it would be a shame, because it would still be unjust. I don't want to live in a Brave New World under the shelter of materialist consumerism if I can possibly help it. A gram is better than a damn, and all that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250814#p250814 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil leibylucwgamer wrote:I've recently found a program called Noteburner iTunes DRM Audio Converter that strips Apple Music content of its DRM encoding. It works successfully and I would recommend it to anyone.Best Regards,LukeI didn't know iTunes needed a DRM removal tool, all the songs I purchased from them came in the m4a format and the iTunes program had a function to convert them to mp3s. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250765#p250765 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Would someone mind sending me a PM with details of how to obtain Inaudible as well?I think the material on BARD is even more strictly controlled than that of Audible. Personally while I have access to it I've never cared for it, as a lot of the narrators of their older books before they started using the Audible versions are horrible. Plus if I'm reading a series, I want the next book right when it comes out; I'm not going to wait weeks or months for it to be up on BARD. All told, I'd much rather pay $15.00 or so for a book I can break the DRM on, and if I have the ability to do that there's no need for piracy. I certainly don't feel entitled to free books simply because I am blind. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250764#p250764 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I've recently found a program called Noteburner iTunes DRM Audio Converter that strips Apple Music content of its DRM encoding. It works successfully and I would recommend it to anyone.Best Regards,Luke URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250751#p250751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Sebby,I guess that's the difference between you and me. I try to look at things with a positive, rather than a negative view. DRM is here to stay, so instead of focusing on the negative points of that fact, I try to put a positive spin on it. Life, in general, is much nicer that way.Jaybird,I doubt that will ever happen because to get a hold of the content to strip the DRM would take the participation of some blind person who has access to BARD, and while the chances of being caught are small, I know that I wouldn't want to risk my access to BARD by participating in such a venture. I would guess that most other BARD members feel the same way. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250743#p250743 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @Sebby, I sent you an Email.At everyone, where I'm coming from is that I definitely prefer services where DRM is not employed, but sometimes you have no choice but to use a service that does use DRM. For example, if Audible has a book I want, and if nobody else has it in an accessible format, and if I really want to read the book, then I'll buy it, break the DRM, and read it rather than doing without the book altogether.Now the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped here in the US has their BARD (Braille and Audio Reading Download) service, which opens up a whole new can of worms. Their audio books are protected with encryption, but somehow that doesn't seem as bad to me. For one thing, if you're reading a book from BARD, it's being read in their app or on a special talking book player anyway. For another, DRM is the best and maybe the only way they can comply with the exception to US copyright law which allows them to make books available to the blind. That exception requires materials to be produced in a specialized format for use by the blind. In older days, that specialized format was Braille books which can't be read by a sighted person unless they know Braille, or various audio formats like hard and floppy disks recorded at nonstandard speeds, and four-track slow speed cassettes. Again, you couldn't just go to the store down the street and pick up a player capable of playing the NLS format.Would I love to find out that somebody's developed a way to crack BARD audio books? Absolutely! But I'm not avoiding BARD and holding my breath until it happens. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250735#p250735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I think I understand you. There's something psychological going on.DRM makes premium bits feel more premium. I'm sure I've experienced that. Heck, I'm sure Audible was responsible for that, to some extent. It's such a wonderful, vertical, well-staged delivery.The bits are protected, therefore the content must be of high quality and you're privy to it. Yeah. I understand. But of course, it's an illusion. The only difference is the decryption.To see how this works, you need only enjoy content you ripped from a CD or DVD that you know is of studio quality. The content continues to be awesome, it just doesn't have the DRM on it. So why does content without DRM feel less valuable? Because it once had DRM, or because the DRM was unwarranted to begin with?I get a bit of both. Sometimes DRM content is just made worse by the DRM. Sometimes I'm glad the DRM is there because I truly value the content. An ABX test would, of course, fail utterly to reliably have me identify DRM-free from DRM content, because the DRM adds nothing perceivable. It's just the sense you get from the content owner's own self-assessment of the value of their content.So let's do away with the DRM, and have stern copyright notices instead. I could live with that. Or watermarking. The critical point is that we understand the value of this stuff, which I most certainly do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250729#p250729 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Whether DRM causes harm depends on what it does.Before I lost my vision I was an avid gamer. Almost all of the games I played had some form of DRM protecting them, yet I never experienced any problems with the DRM, even when the vendor put very tight restrictions on the game's use. And rather than feel like I was being treated like a crook as most DRM critics claim, to me it felt more like I had front row seats to a sold out show that everyone wanted to see.The only time DRM became a problem it didn't really matter because the game it was protecting was so buggy, that it was unplayable, so I was no longer interested in playing the game. The game's bugs will never be fixed because the development team that built it was disbanded. The worst part is, the vendor knows all this, yet continues to sell the game to unsuspecting buyers. The DRM only allows five activations, which I used trying to get the game to work, I tried contacting the vendor several times about getting more activations and was ignored. I will never buy anything else from that vendor ever again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250727#p250727 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I think DRM is evil because it takes control away from the user; that's it's function, and it wouldn't be very useful DRM without it. It is a software adversary, that protects its masters from its users, and presumes guilt over innocence. And unlike say a gun, which has legitimate uses (all of which, incidentally, involve hurting people), DRM has no legitimate uses, because every potential justifiable use of DRM is more than counteracted by the significant harm. It would be like saying that arming people with explosives wasn't a problem because they can be used for legitimate self-defence, despite the fact that they cause serious structural damage to nearby property if used as intended. It only works in an ideal world where every copy is piracy and not a legitimate copy, and where the owner of the content is the only entity who can make informed choices about those copies. DRM cannot judge intent the way a person can, so that means DRM will fail where a person will not, sooner or later, as this case illustrates; if the DRM were working correctly, it would not prevent my brother from using his files--a technical impossibility for DRM to be useful.More interesting, unless you have law to require DRM servers to run forever, there will come a point where DRM actually harms a company's interests rather than help it. I'm not exactly sure what Amazon intend to do; I guess they're hoping that people will have had a good enough run with their content by the time they shut down the servers, but I guess we won't know until it happens; we don't even know when, because anything might happen to cause it, not just a company bankruptcy or merger, but it's not like we haven't seen other examples of people losing everything to DRM before. I for one won't be caught out by that when it happens. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250725#p250725 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Ouch, I didn't realize that Amazon actively tries to prevent multiple accounts. I guess that means that I'll never use Audible until there's an easy way to remove their DRM.Not that it matters, since Audible books end up on BARD in a couple of months, once there, it's free. So as long as I'm willing to wait, I can get all the Audible books I want at no cost.As for Amazon closing accounts that have too many returns, all I can say is, try being more careful about what you buy so you don't have to return purchases too often. For example, I just bought a George Foreman grill, I spent several hours looking at and comparing the many models that were available before I chose the one I wanted, it arrived today and after inspection it was exactly what I wanted, so barring that it isn't defective, it's a keeper.Oh, and DRM isn't evil, it's just a tool like a hammer or a gun. It is how the tool is used that determines goo d or evil. Using a hammer to build a house is good, but using the same hammer to bash someone skull in is evil.So in your brother's case it isn't the DRM that's evil, it's how Amazon uses it that is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250723#p250723 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Ouch, I didn't realize that Amazon actively tries to prevent multiple accounts. I guess that means that I'll never use Audible until there's an easy way to remove their DRM.Not that it matters, since Audible books end up on BARD in a couple of months, once there, it's free. So as long as I'm willing to wait, I can get all the Audible books I want at no cost.As for Amazon closing accounts that have too many returns, all I can say is, try being more careful about what you buy so you don't have to return purchases too often. For example, I just bought a George Foreman grill, I spent several hours looking at and comparing the many models that were available before I chose the one I wanted, it arrived today and after inspection it was exactly what I wanted, so barring that it isn't defective, it's a keeper. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250723#p250723 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @Figment: Yes. I completely understand that a retailer has the right to refuse business for any reason, and that indeed, returns can mean losses that, if unchecked, would not provide any incentive for the customer to moderate their spending. Clearly, the benchmark is quite high enough that many customers can return items just fine and not be affected. I'm fairly sure Amazon could have handled it better (for instance by putting a human, rather than a machine, in charge) and there are legitimate cases, particularly third-party sellers, where Amazon is clearly in the wrong, but nevertheless it's completely reasonable for a retailer to close an account for excess returns. The UK consumer-rights group Watchdog actually featured a documentary about this situation, although they didn't look at the effects on digital content so much, just on the fact that a surprising minority were hitting the returns limit. But my real problem is with the completely one-sided approach to d igital purchases. Paying for a revocable license with irrevocable cash is stupid, yet it is what these corporations are happy to trick people into doing. That's clearly ethically bankrupt. I'm happy to make it harder for them to get away with that. Hopefully now you can too.As for DRM in the big picture, I personally believe we will eventually be rid of it. People will realise what a mistake it is to give control of this sort to content holders, for example publishers will suddenly find that they can no longer do deals with competing resellers, consumers will be locked in to platforms, etc. So yeah, DRM will die, eventually, but only once all the pain and suffering and mistakes of a generation of greed and stupidity has run its course. Piracy was never the reason, of course--not when there are so many other, better ways of obtaining pirated content, none of which involve breaking DRM, and all of which are better experiences for the "Customer" than the real deal. This is because the good of open formats for the customers significantly outweighs the bad, in the end, which is why DRM proponents don't want to lose control over any other kind of media besides music. Compare the CD to the DVD, to take one example. You can rip CDs. You can't rip DVDs--at least, not well, and not as well as any CD. So now we have the absurd situation that it is still preferable to buy a DVD so you can rip it poorly and avoid the DRM of the online download (typically of worse quality), whereas the CD--the format that wasn't protected by DRM--is now dead, and everyone is buying from online music stores just to avoid the inconvenience of physical media. It's crazy. Obviously, it's not piracy, but control. DRM makes it possible to control how and when you use your content, and to enforce in technology that which copyright law will not enforce for the rights holders. The reason it's so hard to shake it off is that nobody could reason ably disagree with protecting copyright. It's a perfect camouflage. I know I'm not a pirate--well, not much, anyway. Yet my only market response is to buy even more of this DRM-encumbered shit, not because I want it, but because the content distributors really are the only ones with a say in how its produced and distributed and this is the only choice in town. Ugh! Just avoid it as best you can, and break it when you learn how, I guess, until the laws catch up, and copyright gets fixed so it can't be abused in ways that are socially damaging. I daresay DRM and harbouring out-of-print material both qualify for that.As for multiple accounts at Amazon: no, Amazon explicitly go out of their way to link up billing and address details, so you can't do that, alas. In fact, they openly prevent you from touching your account once it's frozen, for that very reason. Nice idea, though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250721#p250721 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @enes: files received, thanks! I wish I'd checked my PMs sooner; I already had them, but through Mega, which on any browser besides Chrome requires Adobe bloody Flash to obtain. Ugh! Ended up using Chrome on XP, which supports the APIs required. Wasn't going to install it on my Mac. Your download links would've helped me avoid all that.And thanks to everybody else who got in touch to help me find Inaudible. I will explain in detail the DRM at the end of the post, so people living in restricted countries can tune out and avoid the thought police, but you all played your part in helping me understand how it worked.My brother got his account back. For whatever reason, his pleading with Amazon got his account reopened. Maybe it was that he mentioned that he was blind. The memo went all the way up to the head of sales in the UK, which might have meant that the RNIB got involved after all. Whatever the reason, he can now log in to his account, make and retur n purchases and access his Audible content on any device once again. Cheers all round. Well, except for the disappointment that is DRM, of course. I'll never be grateful for that. We've all learned an important lesson. As soon as my brother gets the gumption together, and now that he has the time, I'm going to help him download all his books and strip out the DRM. That way this can't happen to him again.For myself, I have already completely stripped the DRM from my Audible books collection, with no loss of quality whatsoever, and maintaining the original format and encoding. I was too late to return my Audible credits, but I would have, if I could have; Amazon didn't notify me, in December, when the renewal happened, and you only get 14 days to cancel your membership. Dirty trick, that. Still, with these credits on hand, I might as well stock up on books that I've already paid for. The removal of the DRM means, quite simply, that Audible has a gr eat deal more value to me than it otherwise would have. I can buy timeless books I will actually value for eternity because they don't have DRM to make them rot, I can get access to Audible exclusives, and I can use my USB MP3 player to play the books in the other room, which ironically probably means I'll have more time for listening. Naturally, though, I don't reward bad behaviour when I can possibly help it, so I'm going to try and avoid them for new purchases, just as I promised to. These bastards can only hurt people because we let them, so I'm going to try the various alternatives that have been suggested, particularly Downpour. Oh, and no, piracy isn't an option I'm happy with, no matter the provocation; at best it's something to be resorted to if there are no other options for obtaining the content and there is a specific, compelling reason to have it.Now, what follows is a discussion of the DRM itself. If you're living in an uncivilised nation where corporations write the rules (i.e. the US), then you can stop reading now and avoid a visit from the thought police.The tool of choice is called Inaudible. It is somewhat hard to find, but happily, the news is spreading, if you know where to look, and as always, especially among Open Sourcerers who don't mind getting their hands dirty. It can perform lossless decryption of Audible book files. The latest format, Audible Enhanced (file extension .aax) is an MPEG4 container with chapter markings in the metadata atoms, encrypted with a per-subscriber key. On Windows, Inaudible is pretty much a point-and-click affair, and can be automated entirely. On OS X, Inaudible includes the tools required, but not the shell scripting knowledge to do bulk conversions, and its UI seems to be limited specifically to converting one book at a time, although it is still useful for discovering keys and testing the tools.The basic idea of breaking the DRM is f irst to find your four-byte "Activation secret" and then to convert the audible file into a regular MPEG4 container using that secret. The secret is the golden key with which your files are encrypted for all of a subscriber's files. There are three ways to find it: from your existing player, from Audible's own activation server, and by brute-force. Inaudible seems to be using the third method, and has rainbow tables with precomputed keys and a custom implementation for the Audible algorithm for the open-source rcrack tool. It seems to work well, even without access to iTunes or Audible Manager, as was apparently required in the past. I suppose we should be glad that DRM purveyors are stupid as well as malicious; the key is 64 bits and is usually found in seconds. However, for a fully networked solution, there is the "Audible activator" from the same open-source inaudible-ng project--basically a tool for sending the username and password query to Audible 's server for activation, just as your client would.Now you have your secret, store it
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I understand that Audible talking books are in mp3 format, they just have a DRM wrapper around them.Before I'd be willing to use Audible, I'd first make sure I had a way to remove the DRM from my purchased books just as I did with my Kindle books. I'd also create a new email address that just forwards everything to my primary email account and use that for Audible. That would make the Amazon and Audible accounts separate.But at $15 per book, I doubt I'd even bother because most Audible book show up on BARD in a couple of or less.BARD is a web site provided by the National Library Service that provides free downloadable brail and talking books for people who are registered as legally blind.For examble, "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" was released as a talking book on Audible on December 18th, it was added to BARD a week or two ago and it was the exact same recording Audible was selling. The same thing happened with the last b ook of Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250703#p250703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I understand that Audible talking books are in mp3 format, they just have a DRM wrapper around them.Before I'd be willing to use Audible, I'd first make sure I had a way to remove the DRM from my purchased books just as I did with my Kindle books. I'd also create a new email address that just forwards everything to my primary email account and use that for Audible. That would make the Amazon and Audible accounts separate. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250703#p250703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Hi.Yeah its a pitty with digital goods, you can't sell them on.with physical goods I have sold them on, and in fact some stuff I have got because others didn't want it and gave/sold it on.I agree if you return to much amazon is fully in their right to block you from buying anything sadly if that means you get bared from everything well I don't know.Thing is with digital stuff, there is almost no reason to return it.I myself just don't use drm enabled stuff its better not to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250699#p250699 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil wanderer wrote:Ideally the books would be sold as standard MP3 files, then this wouldn't be an issue.I agree, that's why I don't use audible myself, instead I buy my talking books from some sites I've found that offer them as MP3s. Their books are also cheaper than what audible wants too. The only downside is that their selection isn't as large as audible's. And there are sites that have free talking books in MP3 format where the books are in the public domain.blindncool wrote:DRM must die!Nice sentiment, but as long as there are people willing to steal, DRM is here to stay.Honestly, I've seen numerous posts here where people openly declared that they didn't give a damn about copyrights and would willingly steal from software authors to get what they want. With that in mind I really d on't think that those people have any right to complain about DRM, it is them and other people like them that is the reason DRM exists.So, DRM is here to stay, you may as well accept it and quit complaining. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250693#p250693 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I agree... but most companies who use DRM really don't care; they just use it to make more money. I'm guessing that Amazon's mindset is "So what if anyone loses access to their purchased content? We've got a billion other customers who don't give a flying frack!" Honestly, DRM must die! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250681#p250681 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Ideally the books would be sold as standard MP3 files, then this wouldn't be an issue. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250661#p250661 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I thought I said as much in my first paragraph.My example was for Amazon's closing his account.It's unfortunate that the Amazon and Audible accounts are the same account. Ideally they should be separate. Then his audible.com books wouldn't be affected. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250647#p250647 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I agree, but there's one very important difference.Sure, you can say that guy can't enter your store any more. But denying access to purchased content via DRM would be like you, the store owner, saying, "Okay, not only are we going to not allow you to shop here in the future, but we're going to your home right now and we're going to steal everything you've purchased from us before, and there's nothing you can do about it." URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250633#p250633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil While I agree that your brother's already purchased collection of digital content should be accessible to him perpetually. I can also see Amazon's point of view.Consider this. You are a the owner of a store. You have a customer that returns most of the things he buys. The returned items are opened so they can no longer be sold as new. After a while, to save the expense, you'd eventually refuse to sell anything to this customer and ask him not to return to your store.The only legitimate reason I can think of for so many returns is not being careful about what you buy. For low priced items, I usually just check the customer reviews. For higher priced things, I research the product, looking for reviews and manuals. To that end I rarely have to return any of my purchases.But every once in a while...If you remember my thread about an accessible Samsung TV. I eventually returned the TV because the accessibility system had and caused a lot of pr oblems. I bought that TV from Amazon. UPS lost it while it was being returned to Amazon. When I notified Amazon that the TV was 4 weeks overdue and that it disappeared from the UPS tracking log 4 weeks ago, they immediately refunded the cost of the TV without waiting for it to arrive at their returns center as they usually do. Since Amazon provided the return shipping label, they had the tracking number so they could verify that it was lost and initiate a package search.Even after all of that, they did not close my account, I placed several orders through them last week.I don't know what criteria Amazon uses but I suspect it's a ratio of purchases kept versus purchases returned, and I suspect if you blow that criteria, you are abusing Amazon's liberal returns policy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250627#p250627 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Hi.I agree.its one of the reasons I don't use steam.Aparently a friend that has it really gets pissed as some stuff he buys may come on a cool dvd 4gb in size however all the patches and non included content needs you to download another chunk of stuff and yeah he doesn't like it much.I brought audible book one of them to try it.I can see it if I actually brought a book and kept it but after reading the book and after a reformat due to a crash it was like, read it, and don't care to bother again.There are places you can buy the books on disk though I have yet to read the books I got on cd either just yet.Now as for the person who has access to the underground network.please click the link on an email and tell me how to access that network, what it is, and how I can get access to that.In the early days I had access to such networks for tv, software and books over ftp, but they died all of them just died.Not because they were sued but because they were home hosted nets and well.Anyway I did have another I got a lot of text from but to be honest I have exhausted its entire catalog of material.Codex is a calibre frontend Its buy james scholes. its project site ishttp://github.com/jscholes/codexand its stable download page ishttp://jscholes.net/project/codex/It is supposed to convert drm books like adobe aditions epubs etc.Now while this does not always work for all things, some books authors have a homepage and it may be able to get non drm versions by explaining to the authors and asking for it explaining you are blind.Ofcause The book I got was a local book so who knows.Next bookdepository.com imports books, audio cds, etc.\Finally amazon does have audio cds of stuff though I don't use them at all.Also find a l ocal store that handles fast delivory, stuff like fishpond.co.nz or mightyape.co.nz these are nz only but there are probably stores just like them all over the place and these stores may do international shipment I have never needed to try but you can look.The advantage of mighty ape and other stores like these are that they are local stores with warehouses usually in a town or city close to where you live.Example mightyape is a store who's warehouse is close to where I live and its a 24/7 store.So chances are you order and get it the same day if not the next day.I ordered something at 10 pm at night.It was shipped at 9 am in the morning and came to my door at 5 pm that day.Another feature of this and maybe other stores is that its quite blind friendly.That is that as well as being accessable, it emails you each step of the order.1. when the order was recieved and when it was payed.2. when it was shipped and when that arrived.This means no waiting for ups, just wait for the mail and get it.You will have to pay for signing your order saturday delivery and gift wrapping and gift wrapping aint worth it because I tried.In one order while the front of a disk case got dammaged the disk itself was good and while I am sure I could have complained and got a replacement it wasn't worth it for me.To be honest services like this are great.I have issues with deliverys requiring signatures.Firstly while I am now a yung man, I have never felt safe opening the door to strangers.And while most of those are nice enough, door knockers, including charitys, churches, salespeople, and stuff really get me well I don't know ancious.I actually don't have any way to really defend myself if something bad ever happened so I keep the door closed and have been advised to never open it, unless I need to.I have had times where I am hot and with family ha ve had it opened, and some church or something comes past.Now I have no issue with churches, and religion or charities but since I am a disabled person and automatically put in the poor helpless charity cases catogry it means I am now a natural target and while thats fine for stuff I want its not fine for getting it unpreparedly getting it thrown in your face or shoved in your face.I joined a friends christian group for a year in school and while they were nice enough, I became a natural target.I endured it for a year then bailed.Later on that same group got into some trouble with the law and well I was happy I got out of that.Another issue I have are weird events, I was signing for a package when a puppy walked inside and I didn't know, I was asked if it was my dog which I answered it wasn't and it was handled well however delivery drivers are usually on the go, and running here and there and well not all are that nice in general.I also have issues where stuff is left in front of the house stuff I never ordered others did, like wine which blocks the steps to get to it so I have to either look and get it or get it before I go outside.Thank god I actually can put instructions where to deliver orders and how to put them.If I can say anything about the delivery lot it is that in recent years, while I can sign, it must
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil hi,sent you another pm containing the information you seek. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250505#p250505 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Conversion between lossy formats is a problem, etc. I could probably manage, but really, I'd much rather just get the actual, decrypted, compressed data. Anyway, this was back in the days of the Audible codec for Windows Media Player (DirectShow), which no longer exists. That codec meant that you could use GoldWave and others to get your content out. That's not an option anymore, so we're back to using the CD method (or Inaudible, which I'm being shown the way to). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250487#p250487 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Even if I wanted to play them on my phone, I can't as the Audible app requires iOS 8 or later and I am still on an iPhone 4. Out of curiosity, why would you convert your books to lossless? I believe the Audible format is basically just encrypted MP3, so I don't think there's much of a point. Most of mine are 64KBPS MP3 and they sound fine. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250449#p250449 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil And here is just one more example of Drm being overused, as it always has been. *sigh* Drm needs to die, and I feel the site Defective by Design says it all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250432#p250432 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Yeah I know. I really don't like wandering off the straight and narrow. I guess if you purchase audiobooks then you appreciate that, especially when you have devices (iPhone, Stream) and software (iTunes) that support Audible so perfectly and frictionlessly. Of course the cunning here is in just that deception; really, it's only working because those combinations have been bought by Audible. Guess it's time to go back to ripping back into flac, or if I get it working, lossless m4b conversions with Inaudible (which I also don't have). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250428#p250428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil This is why I don't download from Audible; I'll occasionally buy something from them because I actually do care about supporting the author, but being as my preferred portable device for playing books on is my Sansa Clip Zip with Rockbox on it, which, drum roll, cannot play DRM-protected content, I use a network that's made exclusively for uploading audiobooks as MP3s. I don't really like doing it as the books I buy are usually ones I feel are worth my money and it means waiting for someone else to convert the book (don't have Inaudible) but it works. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250426#p250426 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Well, legal options would certainly be very interesting, given that these are digital purchases. Or rather, licenses ...It's certainly an idea though. We're just trawling for info at this point. And it doesn't look as if it's a particularly new problem, although it's usually Kindle people discover to be off-limits. Amazon has made statements in the past that they don't restrict purchases, and yet my brother has no access at all.But obviously, the death of DRM, worldwide, is the real solution. It's the only way; we simply have to make DRM illegal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250421#p250421 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
2016-02-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Meh, if it's too late for your brother to retrieve his content, and he did indeed purchase it without breaking any (legal) law, he aught to contact an attorney. Aren't audio books from Audible like $20 ssomething? I know they are on ITunes but I haven't explored Audible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250420#p250420 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil @enes Thanks, I responded in a PM. Probably, because PMs don't generate email notifies, it's simpler just to email (I have a direct address, although forum mail works too). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250417#p250417 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil hi sebby,I've sent you a pm about inaudible and obtaining it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250414#p250414 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Thanks guys.You can be sure I'm looking, but it seems that Inaudible is now being chased by Audible (surprise!) because it decrypts the material losslessly. It is now on a private tracker somewhere. Anyone know where and how? I can save myself, even if it's too late for my brother (the only approved device is his smartphone app, of course). Amazon got some consumer watchdog attention for closing accounts, but this aspect of it--the loss of Audible and Kindle purchases--seems to be unexplored. And Audible, especially, has been resistant to breakage. Perhaps it's not too late for us to kick up a fuss ... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250410#p250410 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I agree with everything said here about DRM. You should be able to strip it from the books using a program like Inaudible. Since Amazon won't give you the keys to the door, break it down. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250409#p250409 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil I agree with everything said here about DRM. You should be able to strip the DRM from the books using a program like Inaudible. Since Amazon won't give you the keys to the door, break it down. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250409#p250409 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Sebby, you're absolutely correct. The bloody corporations only care about keeping their wallets fat. They don't care about anyone, except themselves. As long as they have some sort of leverage over their customers (in the form of DRM), they think they call the shots. I hope that someone eventually puts an end to this atrocity! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250403#p250403 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the result that he can no longer log in to his account.And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of Audible books.Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells an d replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to th e software. While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time, and that it' s easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of audiobooks available.But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sake, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant. You never know, it could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you have no hope of playing, and who will be out of pocket for the amount you "Bought" them for. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250398#p250398 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the result that he can no longer log in to his account.And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of Audible books.Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells an d replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to th e software. While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time, and that it' s easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of audiobooks available.But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sake, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant. You never know, it could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you have no hope of playing, and out of pocket for the amount you "Bought" them for. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250398#p250398 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the result that he can no longer log in to his account.And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of Audible books.Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells an d replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to th e software. While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by Copyright and common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time, and that it' s easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens to you. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of audiobooks available. But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sakes, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant; you never know, it could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you have no hope of playing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250398#p250398 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil
FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the result that my brother can no longer log in to his account.And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of Audible books.Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, after logging in to his account. Any device already possessing that key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software. While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by Copyright and common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens to you. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of audiobooks available. But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sakes, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant; you never know, it could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you have no hope of playing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250398#p250398 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
