Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Accept all that OCR, currency, scene description, Bar code reading, facial recognition and document scanning is handled by an azure cloud instance that makes your iPhone look about as powerful as a toaster. The app you run on your phone is just a fancy front end to all that.Every UI element of the app on iOS has an android equivalent and if they use those standard android UI elements the app will work fine no extra gestures required.They really do not have an excuse here, because iOS is not all that special at the end of the day, just like android. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488978/#p488978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @89, again, they use a cross-platform SDK that supports iOS and Android. I significantly doubt that the code of Seeing AI uses iOS specific code for everything. No doubt they use the SDK wherever possible and only use iOS-specific elements when required. As such it wouldn't be nontrivial. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488973/#p488973 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Um, well if I use it it wont crash too, but if a newer Android version comes out and I happen to update then it will. What kind of logic is this I use the app and it didn't crash? It's not my point anyways, I am just saying that cross platform isn't so easy for an OCR app, let alone for an APP that does OCR, currency, scene description, Bar code reading, facial recognition and document scanning all at once. Now of course, it's Microsoft, they can do it faster than the company making KNFB, so there needs to be a reason why they didn't other than they are lazy, but we are not Microsoft, do not have the app code and do not know what it involves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488960/#p488960 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) 87 nailed it. I used it and though its quality was poor at best, it never crashed on me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488936/#p488936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I'm pretty sure that it also ran fine for a bunch of people who didn't feel the need to shout that it was doing so from the rooftops.We hear more about a product's fuck ups than we do its successes , the gpd win subreddit being a fantastic example.My points still stand though, Microsoft are either not listening, or are just outright being lazy assholes and that's not cool. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488935/#p488935 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Oh yes, KNFB reader was ported so well that it crashes after every major Android update and it takes forever for them to update a supposed old library they are using. That's very acceptable for such an expensive app, thank god I did not buy it on Android. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488916/#p488916 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) For those who use Commentary, that screen reader does support Direct Touch input.Good example is the work that was done with having the Advance Braille and Soft Braille keyboards work without needing to suspend Talk Back first.So yeh,, it could be done.Would the developers of Seeing AI by Microsoft make it work with Commentary? If there was enough promotion, maybe. There could also be a special Seeing AI gesture set for that specific program. Can't do that with Talkback, as yall know.Oh, and about the IPhone being two expensive these days, two key things:1. Many folks continue to pick up the IPhone 8 or 8Plus. Not just because of the home button, but do to its affordability. 2. 2. That iPhone SE2, do to be coming out next March, roomers to have the price of $400 US.Bonus!]I saw someone having problems with the iOS rotor. You can change the touch gestures to two finger left/right swipes if ya want now, since iOS 13 for some time now, in addition to keeping the traditional gestures if ya want.PS. Commentary's OCR does beat apple's way of OCR at the moment, though Apple could work on it better in future. Talkback and Voice Assistant (not even code factory's Mobile Accessibility), never had OCR to begin with.I'm talking Virtual Screen-Like OCR here... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488839/#p488839 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) For those who use Commentary, that screen reader does support Direct Touch input.Good example is the work that was done with having the Advance Braille and Soft Braille keyboards work without needing to suspend Talk Back first.So yeh,, it could be done.Would the developers of Seeing AI by Microsoft make it work with Commentary? If there was enough promotion, maybe. There could also be a special Seeing AI gesture set for that specific program. Can't do that with Talkback, as yall know.Oh, and about the IPhone being two expensive these days, two key things:1. Many folks continue to pick up the IPhone 8 or 8Plus. Not just because of the home button, but do to its affordability. 2. 2. That iPhone SE2, do to be coming out next March, roomers to have the price of $400 US.Bonus!]I saw someone having problems with the iOS rotor. You can change the touch gestures to two finger left/right swipes if ya want now, since iOS 13 for some time now, in addition to keeping the traditional gestures if ya want.PS. Commentary's OCR does beat apple's way of OCR at the moment, though Apple could work on it better in future. Talkback and Voice Assistant (not even code factory's Mobile Accessibility), never had OCR to begin with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488839/#p488839 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Yeah. I'm not buying the it'd be super complicated to port it over bs either, KNFB reader got ported to android and windows, despite using voiceover's vertical swipes in item picker thing.All of the channel changes can happen on a settings page you scroll to horizontally, or through a menu on the main page that you invoke by pressing a button..You'd still have to suspend explore by touch or talkback for the exploration of photos granted, but literally every talkback user should be familiar with this anyway.As far as camera quality goes? Lots of android device vendors use the same camera sensors ( SonyIMX586) for example and the differences across devices mostly comes down to the computational photography tricks employed by each manufacturer.The secret sauce for these computational photography tricks is usually part of a proprietary camera apk and doesn't get exposed through android's Camera API. Up until android Pie, the camera API exposed two logical cameras to applications, one for the front camera and one for the back camera. Each of these consisted of a single stream per camera module regardless of the amount of cameras present. So if you had a fancy camera array on the back of your phone, only the main sensor would be exposed to applications and you only got basic functionality from that camera.Apple probably have similar limitations on iOS, so OCR apps are pretty much using a single camera setup across the board with access to very little or none of the fancy tricks that headline these phone's spec sheets. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488784/#p488784 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I didn't miss read your post and yes I saw it on IOS and I still think volume keys could work. I never said it was an excuse for Microsoft not to have Seeing AI on Android. I said their's no excuse why Microsoft shouldn't add Seeing AI to Android. Also sure it takes some time but hearing something would be nice. Such as we are considering it or we're working on it would be nice. I got no responce when emailing the Seeing AI team. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488764/#p488764 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I didn't miss read your post and yes I saw it on IOS and I still think volume keys could work. I never said it was an excuse for Microsoft not to have Seeing AI on Android. I said their's no excuse why Microsoft shouldn't add Seeing AI to Android. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488764/#p488764 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) It's the kind of slider one can find in ibooks, the one you flip the pages with? If so, couldn't the same be achieved using a so called spinner control on android?Note: I haven't had an android phone in a verry long time, so I might be wrong, but yeah. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488752/#p488752 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) It's not an excuse not to be on Android, please read my posts carefully, I have only said it takes longer than you think. I never said it wont be on Android because of sliders, that is ridiculous. Sliders work using volume keys, definitely, but some move by 10 percent, some by 5, and that's what I meant by inconsistent. It's not a slider with percentage though, it's a slider where you choose a channel, hard to explain if you did not see the iOS app. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488742/#p488742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) They could manage the sliders by using the volume keys. There's no excuse for them not to have it on Android. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488728/#p488728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) It's not nearly as easy as you think. Let me explain what a few lines of code means: First, Seeing AI has an explore photo mode, which basically allows you to move your finger around the screen to hear different elements in the picture and where they are. This is announced with Voiceover, which has something called direct touch, basically allowing apps to take over the gestures. Talkback does not have this ability, so this needs complete rewrite to warn you to disable Talkback, but more importantly to use the system TTS to announce everything. In addition to this, it uses a slider to switch channels, which would not work well at all on Android due to another amazing inconsistency with Talkback and moving sliders, so more rewriting. Most importantly however, Android runs on such a huge range of devices that even when it does come out, probably the results will not be that ideal on non flagship devices, and at that point you're paying just as much. They probably have to think about using different algorithms for weaker cameras. There's a reason Microsoft made it on iOS first, if anything I'd expect them to go for Android first since they are recently heading much more towards the open source approach, but that did not happen here. I'd love to see the app on Android as well, but it's not as simple as changing a few things here and there. The SDK is there though, so clearly they created it with cross platform in mind, it's just a matter of time before it appears. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488715/#p488715 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I mean, there's always AIRA, but that has a big price tag on it, which can... persuade users from subscribing it. Soundscape would be nice to have... I as going to use that to aid me in navigating my College Campus, but since its not available for Android I can't. And I'm not paying over a grand for an overpriced phone just to have Soundscape and Seeing AI. Sorry, but that's not worth the money. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488701/#p488701 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Yeah seeing AI was written using a cross platform SDK. At most they'll have to change jestures to make them work with talkback. I'm not sure about sound scape though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488675/#p488675 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Given that MS still hasn't made Seeing AI available on android yet, despite the number of people asking for it, clearly indicates, to me at least, that itsnot happening. Which is pothetic because they can make it for android by just changing the target OS and altering (maybe a few) lines of code and that's it. There's no overhauling needed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488661/#p488661 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Just wanted to share that if you're using an IOS/iPad OS device, you have the ability to make a Siri shortcut for the Google Assistant, which has been around for a while now.Interestingly, ya can do that for most assistance, with the exception of Alexa currently.Speaking of Seeing AI, for anyone who truly wants said application to arrive on Android, the following link needs to be passed around everywhere! The more votes, the better!https://microsoftaccessibility.uservoic … on-android URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488589/#p488589 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Well, it was discussed probably more than a year ago on the eyes_free list, the fact that Essential fixed this after user feedback, but as far as I know, I don't think there was exact explanation on how it was done. We just know they fixed it with an OTA and it was mentionned in the change log, but nothing more. If there is an universal way via which the user can fix it for sure I'm also interested, since my OnePlus 5T has that problem like so many others, but they never fixed it, again like so many others. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488588/#p488588 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) hadi.gsf wrote:@Omar AlvaradoHave you tried google lookout yet?You have to get the APK file since it's for pixel and samsung devices onlyNo, but I've heard of it.pulseman45 wrote:I'm frankly not sure Motorola is to blame for Talkback fingerprint gestures no longer working in Android 9. It has happened to so many non-pixel phones already. Even the Essential Phone had that problem when Android 9 was released, the difference being they actually bothered fixing it.Ah, the essential phone. First saw it on amazon. Do you have one? Do you know if the fix they applied is something I could apply to my motorola phone? I don't mean root the device and flash there custom rom, pretty sure that would brick my device..Is it me or do you lately have to be incredibly precise, almost surgically so, to have gestures register correctly on either os? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488583/#p488583 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @Omar AlvaradoHave you tried google lookout yet?You have to get the APK file since it's for pixel and samsung devices only URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488582/#p488582 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I'm frankly not sure Motorola is to blame for Talkback fingerprint gestures no longer working in Android 9. It has happened to so many non-pixel phones already. Even the Essential Phone had that problem when Android 9 was released, the difference being they actually bothered fixing it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488574/#p488574 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hi.Motorola did something really strange when I upgraded to android 8 to 9. I can no longer use talk back fingerprint gestures.For me honestly it's iOS for many of the reasons people have already stated here, though for me there's one more and that is seeing AI.In my opinion I feel that seeing AI works more efficiently than envision does on android, believe me I've really tried! to help it read things I need it to read.Anyone remember google goggles? I feel like I've time traveled back to 2014 every time I try envision.I don't hate it though, there are people who say and demonstrate it works great, clearly there's something I'm doing wrong.Also, re update distribution. I personally dislike the way 3rd parties distribute device updates. Android 10 was already in the hands of the general public when the moto g line started getting android 9 pushed to North America; That update was supposed to be here somewhere in the first quarter of 2019.Google assist beats the hell out of siri any day. Chances are if siri has 0 idea what your blabbering about all she does is expect you to find it yourself. Which is sad, because in the days of iOS 8 all the way up to 10 she used to be really useful.And believe me, there are many people who share similar thoughts on this subject.One plus for upgrading is I actually gained a dedicated gesture to call up google assist, double press the power button twice. The old one which was press and hold the home button still works. If your phone has software buttons you will understand why that's a bit of a hassle to execute.But even more simplistically than anything mentioned here is auto speakerphone! My iphone has an unfortunate glitch that prevents it from doing this sometimes but why nobody has added in an automatic speakerphone when you lift the phone from your ear is really strange.Screening calls is one hell of a feature I miss. For those that don't know what that is, allow me to explain. If you get a call from a number you don't recognize, you can hit screen call and a (very natural sounding) text to speech voice says something along the lines of: "Hello, this person is using a screening service from google. Go ahead and say your name."You don't hear the google side of the call but you still hear the caller, but they can't hear you as far as I know. Once that happens you get a screen where you can select a response, one includes to take control of the call and also a response that says "Please remove my number from your call list. Thank you, and good bye." At that point the call ends.A funny thing though, I personally haven't gotten past the hello this is a screen service bla bla bla lalalalalah all that many times, because telemarketers hang up pretty much instantly once they hear her.Take care all, and happy holidays! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488564/#p488564 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hi.TO the person talking about distopia, I think it's the best reddit app we have, it's fast and easy to use.I've not tested android that much but as far as I nkow; an app like that for it doesn't exist. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488560/#p488560 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @67, thanks for that tip; I couldn't purchase ZDSR (I don't even remember why) but the demo seemed primitive to me. It had a lot of features I couldn't use, and that's what caused the "This is primitive" thought. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488489/#p488489 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) A bit of personal thing here:I have a lot of chinese friends, and know what? Some of them are closer to me than my own family, this is why I do try and do my best to defend them as best as I can.@Ethin, ZDSR is by no means primitive, the demo version of ZDSR just has stupid limitations. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488447/#p488447 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Sad days if we are basing our suspicions on software with the way a government of a particular country is. That's all I'll say. When I wrote the post about China, I had Russia in my mind as well, and I think the exact same way, complete nonsense. You realize yourself how unlikely what you are saying is, yet it is still suspicious. However, to give another example, I'd expect people to be offended if I now came in and said you know, all Americans behave like this and hate international software, especially from China or Russia because of their government. I wont do that however, since it is not true, and since really discussion of a screen reader should not be a debate on how good their government is and what it does. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488391/#p488391 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I am not Chinese and I am not personally offended, but I think it's good of you to recognize where you stepped here. As I said, it's not like you were blatantly attacking anyone. On a racism scale, this was like a 0.5-1. Pretty low, I'd say. It's insidious though, because it's the sort of thinking that permits many worse things. That's why I called it the way I did. I've done this sort of thing myself, then been asked to check my bias and my assumptions by people who have demonstrated that I was making some logical leaps. Most of us have probably done it a time or two. So good on you for owning it in some fashion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488373/#p488373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @63, I have no friends in China at this time, unfortunately. I appologise for my racism; that was not my intent. I've re-read the offending post and retract post 60. I'm not going to delete it though for obvious reasons. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488372/#p488372 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) So then, okay. If you are wary of the Chinese government, goodness knows there are plenty of examples in the media to support that.But at this stage, you are trying to defend wariness of CSR based on the actions of the Chinese government. That's a lot like me suggesting that an American border guard is a problem just because of Mr. Trump. It's backward and ill-fitting.If you have proof that thing 1 ties to thing 2, then fine. Demonstrate it. I'll believe it when I see it.If you don't, however, don't set up a circumstantial argument in order to attempt to justify what essentially amounts to light racism. Saying that you have Chinese friends or like Chinese x and y is not a defense, BTW.I will clarify here that I am not trying to demonize you or make you into a horrible person. You aren't. We can do things that are problematic without any real malice, and I think that's what has happened here. Frankly, unless there's some evidence I'm just missing, I feel like you just haven't thought this through. I feel that personal bias, and a touch of so-called typical American xenophobia, is present in some of what you say. This doesn't make you bad. It doesn't mean I want to yell at you or tear you down. It does mean that I want you to try and think about not only what you say, but also what you think and why you think it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488370/#p488370 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) So then, okay. If you are wary of the Chinese government, goodness knows there are plenty of examples in the media to support that.But at this stage, you are trying to defend wariness of CSR based on the actions of the Chinese government. That's a lot like me suggesting that an American border guard is a problem just because of Mr. Trump. It's backward and ill-fitting.If you have proof that thing 1 ties to thing 2, then fine. Demonstrate it. I'll believe it when I see it.If you don't, however, don't set up a circumstantial argument in order to attempt to justify what essentially amounts to light racism. Saying that you have Chinese friends or like Chinese x and y is not a defense, BTW. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488370/#p488370 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @61, I was specifically talking about the government, not the rest of China. I had no intention of being racist. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488369/#p488369 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I'm just gonna step in here real quick and say something.Ethin, your post is definitely racist. And the post you were trying to defend? Basically the same thing.If you'd like to demonstrate with facts why this supposedly justified wariness of anything coming out of China is valid, I'm all ears. But personally, I just don't see it.Lots of pretty fucking shady things come out of America, but we don't suspect American software on the basis of it being American, do we? You don't suspect your phone itself, the physical unit, because it was put together and assembled in China, do you? No. I think not, for most people.If you have legitimate reasons to suspect foul play and it makes you wary, that's fine. But trying to justify suspicion with this much flaky logic is just ugly, folks. No other way around it. It's ugly.Now, as I say, if there is a genuine reason to be wary that I don't know, and it can be hard cited, not just suspected? Go for it. I'll hear you.But you know what's really telling, Ethin? The bit where you characterized China indirectly as an "opponent". This may be true with regard to the government - though that's debatable - but if CSR is not related to the government directly, or if you can't prove a link in any meaningful way, then you're setting up a strawman to support your bias. Check it at the door. In this thread, and virtually anywhere else, it's harmful, unfounded and just complicates matters. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488363/#p488363 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) The below post is from an American point of view. I cannot speak for other countries.I think the term "racist" is being thrown around here without the users of the word actually knowing what that means. The term Racist is defined as "a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another." That's not what's happening here. It is understandable for us to be wary of Chinese software, not because the developers are Chinese, or that we hate/discriminate against the Chinese, but because the Chinese government is known for sticking their noses into things that do not concern them and doing their best to implant harmful or malicious code into the software for their own purposes. Its not racism, per see, at all; rather, its fear that the Chinese government will decide to try to spy on the users of the software by forcing the company/developers to implant malicious code into it. It may be unlikely, but it is an understandable reservation, given the control that the Chinese government has. There would be a similar reservation if the software came from Russia, for example. So no, this is not racism, and calling it that is incorrect.Now, do I think that it is likely that the developers will implant the code themselves or that the government will force them to do so? No; I doubt they'd do that. But we don't know if the Chinese government is capable of inserting malicious code into downloads during transit, which is definitely possible with the right infrastructure. Is it likely that the government would take any interest in a screen reader for blind and visually impaired individuals? Probably unlikely, but I cannot say that for certain. I do, however, believe that it is very unlikely, just as it is very unlikely that Huawei is working with the Chinese government and spying on their customers. However, the reservations and concerns are very valid and understandable. Do I think they're a bit ridiculous given that there isn't any evidence to prove that such a reservation is correct? Yes, but anticipating what an opponent will do is always a part of the game when preparing a proper defense. Won't stop me from trying commentary out sometime though. I did try ZDSR and though I thought it was a bit primitive here and there, it was pretty cool all things considered. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488361/#p488361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I think the term "racist" is being thrown around here without the users of the word actually knowing what that means. The term Racist is defined as "a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another." That's not what's happening here. It is understandable for us to be wary of Chinese software, not because the developers are Chinese, or that we hate/discriminate against the Chinese, but because the Chinese government is known for sticking their noses into things that do not concern them and doing their best to implant harmful or malicious code into the software for their own purposes. Its not racism, per see, at all; rather, its fear that the Chinese government will decide to try to spy on the users of the software by forcing the company/developers to implant malicious code into it. It may be unlikely, but it is an understandable reservation, given the control that the Chinese government has. There would be a similar reservation if the software came from Russia, for example. So no, this is not racism, and calling it that is incorrect.Now, do I think that it is likely that the developers will implant the code themselves or that the government will force them to do so? No; I doubt they'd do that. But we don't know if the Chinese government is capable of inserting malicious code into downloads during transit, which is definitely possible with the right infrastructure. Is it likely that the government would take any interest in a screen reader for blind and visually impaired individuals? Probably unlikely, but I cannot say that for certain. I do, however, believe that it is very unlikely, just as it is very unlikely that Huawei is working with the Chinese government and spying on their customers. However, the reservations and concerns are very valid and understandable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488361/#p488361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I think the term "racist" is being thrown around here without the users of the word actually knowing what that means. The term Racist is defined as "a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another." That's not what's happening here. It is understandable for us to be wary of Chinese software, not because the developers are Chinese, or that we hate/discriminate against the Chinese, but because the Chinese government is known for sticking their noses into things that do not concern them and doing their best to implant harmful or malicious code into the software for their own purposes. Its not racism, per see, at all; rather, its fear that the Chinese government will decide to try to spy on the users of the software by forcing the company/developers to implant malicious code into it. It may be unlikely, but it is an understandable reservation, given the control that the Chinese government has. There would be a similar reservation if the software came from Russia, for example. So no, this is not racism, and calling it that is incorrect.Now, do I think that it is likely that the developers will implant the code themselves or that the government will force them to do so? No; I doubt they'd do that. But we don't know if the Chinese government is capable of inserting malicious code into downloads during transit, which is definitely possible with the right infrastructure. Is it likely that the government would take any interest in a screen reader for blind and visually impaired individuals? Probably unlikely, but I cannot say that for certain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488361/#p488361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) nidza07 wrote:Well, like any download, nothing special really. Just have some sort of website where you write basic info about commentary and give a download page, update it whenever a new version is available and that's it.Yeah!Thanks for putting the forum up, but if you also put up a simple website in english with download links that would help a lot! then everything can be built from there! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488352/#p488352 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Yeah, agree, also put some information in for new users of Android how they can install the thing, just to be sure.Regarding the software, It's not like I only mistrust software from China, maybe this came out the wrong way. What I intended to say was that I'm unsure of software not distributed via an oficial store, that's what I ment.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488350/#p488350 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Well, like any download, nothing special really. Just have some sort of website where you write basic info about commentary and give a download page, update it whenever a new version is available and that's it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488347/#p488347 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @55 how you see the download to be handled? I have a web server, so... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488344/#p488344 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Well Simba, you can view it like this. If you create a software, game, whatever, there is no reason for me to say hey let's run full virus scans on this thing because it is very suspicious, it comes from Germany and I don't really like that country because of companies X Y and Z, nevermind you are an independent person not affiliated in any way with companies or the government itself. I have nothing against someone looking more deeply into CSR because I'm pretty convinced it has no harmful code, but that should not be done based on the country it's coming from, rather a precaution against any software. I agree the term racist is sometimes used too often and sometimes it's unneeded, but it does come off like that when you are assuming something is suspicious just because, China. Software can contain malicious code regardless of the country. As I have said previously though, it should get a download page because there's no reason not to have one. We can wait for official documentation, as a translator I fully understand it takes a lot of time to translate something as complex as a screen reader from scratch, but it can certainly have a dedicated download link you can point people to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488307/#p488307 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hi.again, I didn't say that I "Won't" use CSR, af ar as I remember I said that I will use and try it out in the next cupple of days when the whole christmas situation dies down abit and I have more time on my hands.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488282/#p488282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) But this attitude is a bit racistish, even if not directly racist.It's like i would say: I won't use software X, because it's from Germany and as we know Germany was responsible for one of the most bloody wars in the world.That statement is not directly racist, but has some racistish markings, atleast in my opinion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488275/#p488275 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hi.At 47 well, at leased in my personal opinion someone can't be called racist just because he or she is a bit werry when it comes to chinese software. Especially here in Germany where companys like Huawai want to get into european 5G infrastructure china and developments are closely monitored.I won't be called a racist just because I have doubts about a software. I haven't said that I hate the asian race, I didn't say that I had something against China, come on, I'm not a German like we had 80 years ago.The only problem I have is the chinese government, that's all. I know a few chinese people who live quite close by and I can call them very good friends.So, I would be carefull with the you are a racist argument, these days it seams popular to call someone a racist if he isn#t an absolute left winger, at leased over here and from what I read on a daily basis.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488265/#p488265 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Well, not anymore on iOS. There's a new client in beta called Dystopia for reddit which is built for voice over users.How easy it is to browse reddit with bacon reader on android? can you see comment levels? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488249/#p488249 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Best Reddit Client anywhere, is Bacon Reader:http://baconreader.com/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488247/#p488247 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hey guys, how accessible is reddit, with commentary or talkback?One plus rules, I'd like to get one, but the only reason that's holding me back is the Dystopia for reddit in ios. So what's your experience with reddit and android? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488244/#p488244 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ok, so my below thoughts are more from an America point of view than the rest of the world, thus hopefully it makes sense in the end.Much of the United States (regardless if a product is more advanced than anything out there), people will only join a group if their "friends" are on said platform.E.G. Facebook, Telegram, Discord, ETC.Speaking of discord, that's located in San Fran Sisco, CA.As I mentioned some time ago, the only way most of America will jump on a screen reader like this, is if more promotions are done.But then again, who would be willing to do the promoting?I mean, look at the One Plus line up of phones. They're a Chinese company for the US market (a subsidiary of Opo), their phones are selling like hotcakes! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488231/#p488231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ok, so my below thoughts are more from an America point of view than the rest of the world, thus hopefully it makes sense in the end.Much of the United States (regardless if a product is more advanced than anything out there), people will only join a group if their "friends" are on said platform.E.G. Facebook, Telegram, Discord, ETC.Speaking of discord, that's located in San Fran Sisco, CA.As I mentioned some time ago, the only way most of America will jump on a screen reader like this, is if more promotions are done.But then again, who would be willing to do the promoting? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488231/#p488231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ok, so my below thoughts are more from an America point of view than the rest of the world, thus hopefully it makes sense in the end.Much of the United States (regardless if a product is more advanced than anything out there), people will only join a group if their "friends" are on said platform.E.G. Facebook, Telegram, Discord, ETC. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488231/#p488231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) To clarify some misinformation, commentary does not require root access. It uses it if available, but does not require it. When it is available, it allows some rather cool things like disabling Talkback as soon as you launch commentary so you don't have to do that manually. Stop being racist and basing your concerns on the fact it's from China, especially since that's where your phones are made. We have a great Windows screen reader that is from China as well, and all of them are created by independent developers, not by the Chinese government, so I don't get that argument oh it's from China so it is automatically suspicious, unless you think this is the mentality of all Chinese people in which case as I said you're being racist. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488229/#p488229 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) If you have any questions regarding Commentary please ask. If ijt comes to the group, everyone participating there was a volunteer. I started this group to make it a place where people could ask questions. Then people wanted a forum, so I hosted a forum for them but it is not widely used and I gues that is not my fault. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488227/#p488227 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ah,For automatic translation for example (which talkback/voice assistant lacks), I do believe it uses Baidu. It clearly even states what is being used in the help and support menu section.Commentary is indeed not for everyone, especially since there for now is only physical keyboard support via the up/down arrow keys currently.Though even with Talkback and Voice Assistant, there are just some places among Android which you need to double/single tap on the screen, regardless if having an external keyboard connected.I am wondering actually, even though there is a commentary forum (which i must say does need more love), for non chinese users, should there also be a discord server for commentary too? Bare in mind the following page I found, which needs more votes if Discord wants to be in China (unless I missed something):https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us … 0034572291 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488223/#p488223 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Good morning.Firs things first, I'm not an all out apple fanboy and would defend everything that apple is doing at the moment, to be quite honest their stance on political matters especially with the chinese government is everything else than great, but that's not the point.Unlike other fanboys calling everything bad regarding Android, I did actually go and test an Andorid device for 2 weeks or so as I said a few months back. Luckily I got a pixel 4, so relative good hardware and a stock Android to experiment with.I tried everything with talkback and haven't installed comentary yet.The thing is, while Androids openness and customizability, for example with programs like Taskr and custom RFID labels is fantastic and I had loads of fun trying stuff out and seeing what worked and what not, I'm not able to use Android in my daily work as I would love to, because screen reader wise there are to many things breaking my workflow and efficiency.to make it clearer, I have no time for extensive haggeling with the screen reader, I want things to work and I won't bother with any inconsistancies.For example.TB still had the problem of lagging, even though I have a modern day high end snap dragon SOC running, together with I think 6 gigs of ram, which should ensure a fluet work with the device. While app start times were what I expected from such a device, talkback just seamed slow and unresponsive.Same with browsing, it all took virtualy ages till something was loaded and tb could read it.The rotor and the strange swiping gestures have been mensioned already number of times by now and I also faced these.I don't want to go into a menu and change my navigation settings there, do what I need to do and change them back. I like my rotor on iOS where I just can quickly change between navigation modes, just as I need it.Yes, TB has the ability to change speach synthesizers, but to be quite honest, this is definitly not an argument that counts for me, sorry, but just no.Yes, apple has it's fare share of problems with non stable operating systems, lacking customer service and faulty Macbook keyboards, but as long as I have a stable, quick and snappy iOs and Android doesn't change something about TB or a better solution like Comentary comes out, t leased phone whise I stick to an iPhone.I haven't yet tested out Comentary which I will do in the next days or so, but only if I have whiped my device clean and give it a fresh install of Android.Call me overly carefull or even say that I'm waring the tin foil hat, but I don't really trust a chinese software, not officially distributed via a website and only by joining a telegram group, wanting full access to my device.Granted, every screen reader needs that, but did someone run a integrity check on CSR? do we know if it sends any data to some server in China? Sorry, but I'm not trusting that thing with my private data.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488216/#p488216 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Just to clarify,At least on my Galaxy S10E, Commentary works perfectly fine with out needing to root the phone.Just make sure to have a screen reader running for the first time before turnning on Commentary, just in case ya may loose speech.From then on, you're good.Also, http://g.co/disabilitysupport, is how to contact the google accessibility/disability support people if ya have problems. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488205/#p488205 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hi,Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. At this point, I've had it with Apple and I'd like to try something new, so I'm still inclined towards Android.I like what I'm hearing about Commentary, but I'm also concerned about its need for root access and the fact its coming out of China. Are those actual problems or am I overthinking?As for device choices, I was always under the impression the Pixel line was the best in terms of getting a Stock Android experience. Is this accurate? Is Stock Android the best in terms of accessibility?Thanks again for all your help. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488196/#p488196 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Honestly, my only concern with using Commentary at this point is when it comes back to relaying accessibility needs to developers. Like it or not, Talkback is probably the first thing people see when looking up google accessibility. Its incorporated into most if not all phones at this point, commentary while pretty awesome, is not. It's distribution method is through a fairly high traffic telegram group because of Chinese government restrictions. I spent a few months in there actively participating. The lack of professionalism was pretty astounding. The admins made an off topic group (fair enough,) but I've seen more than a little off topic chat going on in the commentary group. My point is, commentary has a ton of potential and is definitely a breath of fresh air. For it to be taken seriously (and for me to comfortably promote it,) there's a lot of change that needs to happened. I'm really not at all sure why those features were removed in Talkback though. I didn't use a lot of them personally, though I'm sure people did. What's wrong with having a shortcut to dim screen? At the very least, why not make it optional so that if the user would rather use that shortcut for something else, they can. While I can definitely see the pros and cons of having 1 universal screen reader, is fragmentation a whole lot better? I don't think either is wrong; when do we get to a point of too much choice though? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487952/#p487952 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) For everyone, Here's link to the Samsung Voice Assistant Tutorial/User Guide , for those who would like to explore/read it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487936/#p487936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I've still got a Pixel 3A, that phone is actually decent. Generally phone technology just keeps getting worse; people are more interested in providing people with higher-resolution cameras and all that jaz instead of improving the device overall. There are a few open-source phones out there, like the Pinebook, but whether that will go anywhere or not is up in the air at the moment. Its definitely not a competitor to any of the major phones out there though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487914/#p487914 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Let's face it, the golden age of first party mobile screen readers is basically over at this point.The talkback developers have stopped listening to their users and are more interested in shutting down discussion of third party screen readers on their mailing list. I expect nothing from this point, save for half arsed attempts at fixing bugs and the removal of features.On the apple side of things, from mac to iOS, you get what you're given and if you don't like it too bad. I'll always say that allowing apple to become the only screen reader provider across their entire platform was a bad move, but everyone else were too busy praising them. I know two people with iPhones and the updates are currently creating merry hell on their devices. Each new update will fix some of the problems they're having, only to hideously break something else.I feel like apple have been doing this on repeat since about iOS 7 onward and it's just terrible.As for what android device to go for? honestly I'd say fuck the pixel. People will say get the pixel for seemless talkback functionality hurr durr. But I say get yourself a OnePlus device and just learn how to use Commentary.It's the most configurable of the two right now, has a really neat way of selecting text, a fantastic alternate scrolling method that comes in handy if you want to do something like read youtube comments without having to scroll passed all the other crap between comments as well as bags of other features that I'm not naming purely to keep this as short as possible.Note: you can still use this screen reader on the pixel 4 if you're set on it, but but google really didn't do a good job with the pixel this time and as a result most of 2019's flagships will be both cheaper than it and better than it.Unless you're super into all these newfangled AI tricks, the face unlock and not having a fingerprint scanner that you can use for extra gestures.I'd recommend shopping around myself, it doesn't have to be just OnePlus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487904/#p487904 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Let's face it, the golden age of first party mobile screen readers is basically over at this point.The talkback developers have basically stopped listening to their users and are more interested in shutting down discussion of third party screen readers on their mailing list. I expect nothing from this point, save for half arsed attempts at fixing bugs and the removal of features.On the apple side of things, from mac to iOS, you get what you're given and if you don't like it too bad. I'll always say that allowing apple to become the only screen reader provider across their entire platform was a bad move, but everyone else were too busy praising them. I know two people with iPhones and the updates are currently creating merry hell on their devices. Each new update will fix some of the problems they're having, only to hideously break something else.I feel like apple have been doing this on repeat since about iOS 7 onward and it's just terrible.As for what android device to go for? honestly I'd say fuck the pixel. People will say get the pixel for seemless talkback functionality hurr durr. But I say get yourself a OnePlus device and just learn how to use Commentary.It's the most configurable of the two right now, has a really neat way of selecting text, a fantastic alternate scrolling method that comes in handy if you want to do something like read youtube comments without having to scroll passed all the other crap between comments as well as bags of other features that I'm not naming purely to keep this as short as possible.Note: you can still use this screen reader on the pixel 4 if you're set on it, but but google really didn't do a good job with the pixel this time and as a result most of 2019's flagships will be both cheaper than it and better than it.Unless you're super into all these newfangled AI tricks, the face unlock and not having a fingerprint scanner that you can use for extra gestures.I'd recommend shopping around myself, it doesn't have to be just OnePlus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487904/#p487904 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @36, I am not "judging" what features are and aren't important. Android has language switching, iOS has language switching. Is Android's method inefficient? Sure, but there are always alternative screen readers. Again, don't judge a platform based on the screen reader on it. Android is far more popular than iOS -- Google must be doing something right. As for the luxuries comment, no, I consider those important (that's one of the reasons why I switched after all). That was entirely unrelated to the screen reader debate anyway.Finally, I am curious as to which "accessibility" team you and others have contacted. Was it any of the ones over here (https://www.google.com/accessibility/get-in-touch), specifically email, communitis or feedback? Or was it something else? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487889/#p487889 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @36, I am not "judging" what features are and aren't important. Android has language switching, iOS has language switching. Is Android's method inefficient? Sure, but there are always alternative screen readers. Again, don't judge a platform based on the screen reader on it. Android is far more popular than iOS -- Google must be doing something right. As for the luxuries comment, no, I consider those important (that's one of the reasons why I switched after all). That was entirely unrelated to the screen reader debate anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487889/#p487889 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @36, I am not "judging" what features are and aren't important. Android has language switching, iOS has language switching. Is Android's method inefficient? Sure, but there are always alternative screen readers. Again, don't judge a platform based on the screen reader on it. Android is far more popular than iOS -- Google must be doing something right. At this point its down to one side pointing out advantages and trying to discredit and misrepresent the other. Do you think its really productive to continue this discussion? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487889/#p487889 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ethin, perhaps you do not need these features, but you are not somebody to judge what important features are. Do you consider switching languages not important? If yes, you are really selfish and don't want to understand the needs of people who are not speaking only one language. How would you feel if you are reading a text, and you realize you need a different language to read it. On iOS, I can do this with a few gestures, while on Android, the quickest way to do it is to open global context menu with a gesture, find text to speech settings, wait for that to open, find language, tap the language I want and get out of that chain of screens and only then return to what I was reading. Sorry, but I consider reading text a basic feature of a screen reader. Considering that Android is so popular, I also consider multylingual users very important. You can approach Google's accessibility team any way you want. You can be nice, you can be aggressive, they have a set roadmap and no feedback will change that. Do you realize that the latest update of Talkback removed a toggle for enhanced focus, a shake to read feature, a shortcut for screen dimming, as well as adding extra hints that custom actions are available which are extremely unnecessary for advanced users and can't be toggled from verbosity settings. Voiceover does the same thing, but it is smarter, because as you are exploring icons you will only hear this hint once per screen, and not every time you focus something. If Google develops their screen reader with the help of blind people, I don't understand how those people during internal testing don't realize the basic issues with navigation. Want more basic features? A large web page should not crash my phone to the point where I'd rather never browse the web on it. But none of that is necessary, important is to defend Google even if basic things don't work right. I never said that Android is bad as an OS, if you have read my posts you would have noticed that I said if we are not talking from the accessibility point of view, I'd switch back instantly, but sorry, I'd rather be productive on my phone then have extra features. You can send messages from the web on iOS too, so that's not an advantage. Does not matter though, there are many limitations on both and that's not the point of my post.Edit: There's actually one more thing I wanted to mention. Luxuries? Since when did screen reader features become that? Also, doesn't that make your messaging on the web, full platform customisation and other app stores go into the same categories? If we go by your logic, those are not necessaties either, yet you still mention them to make Android look better? It's a silly logic anyways. That's how comparisons work in the world, you show the inovations from one side to demonstrate what is lacking on the other. When a website is comparing operating systems, which is what we are doing with Talkback and Voiceover, they are not going to go in and say but hey you know, those things are not required and it works perfectly fine without them, so it's still better. Nobody said Android is unusable, we're far past this point, I've said it's less efficient for screen reader users. Once that changes, I'll be very happy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487794/#p487794 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Ethin, perhaps you do not need these features, but you are not somebody to judge what important features are. Do you consider switching languages not important? If yes, you are really selfish and don't want to understand the needs of people who are not speaking only one language. How would you feel if you are reading a text, and you realize you need a different language to read it. On iOS, I can do this with a few gestures, while on Android, the quickest way to do it is to open global context menu with a gesture, find text to speech settings, wait for that to open, find language, tap the language I want and get out of that chain of screens and only then return to what I was reading. Sorry, but I consider reading text a basic feature of a screen reader. Considering that Android is so popular, I also consider multylingual users very important. You can approach Google's accessibility team any way you want. You can be nice, you can be aggressive, they have a set roadmap and no feedback will change that. Do you realize that the latest update of Talkback removed a toggle for enhanced focus, a shake to read feature, a shortcut for screen dimming, as well as adding extra hints that custom actions are available which are extremely unnecessary for advanced users and can't be toggled from verbosity settings. Voiceover does the same thing, but it is smarter, because as you are exploring icons you will only hear this hint once per screen, and not every time you focus something. If Google develops their screen reader with the help of blind people, I don't understand how those people during internal testing don't realize the basic issues with navigation. Want more basic features? A large web page should not crash my phone to the point where I'd rather never browse the web on it. But none of that is necessary, important is to defend Google even if basic things don't work right. I never said that Android is bad as an OS, if you have read my posts you would have noticed that I said if we are not talking from the accessibility point of view, I'd switch back instantly, but sorry, I'd rather be productive on my phone then have extra features. You can send messages from the web on iOS too, so that's not an advantage. Does not matter though, there are many limitations on both and that's not the point of my post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487794/#p487794 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) So, For those who have a samsung device and are able to upgrade to Android 10, there's three noticable additions I have found:1. While using an app such as youtube and you're in the "published/premiered on" description box, you can now do a 3-finger-swipe-down to access available links. Go through said links via left/right flicks, and tap/double-tap on one.2. There's a new "Light Sensor" feature now, for thos who need it. It does exactly what it says, tells you if it's light or dark, either via sound or voice.3. The "enhanced focus" feature (which talkback had for a little while already) is now apart of Voice Assistant. Not only it's more accurate in my view, the "toggle" to turn it on/off remains available to you (unlike what Google did with Talkback removing said checkbox, as far as I know anyway...)Bonus! The Bixby voice called Lisa, can now be used as a screen reader voice!FYII am now running the official Android 10 with !UI 2.0, which is now "out of beta!"T- Mobile FTW! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487744/#p487744 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @Ethin I agree well said! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487720/#p487720 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
@30, my point is that it shouldn't be dependent on whether one screen reader on one platform is better than another on another platform to determine that platforms "value", which is literally the basis of every supposed complaint about Android (bar a few app inefficiencies, which are apparently not universal). You *do not* need every single feature that voice over has to use iOS, do you? No, you don't. Those "extras" are luxuries -- enhancements to make the user experience a bit better. But not all of them are necessities. Perhaps if we didn't come in, guns blazing, towards accessibility teams like Googles accessibility team, we'd actually make some progress. But pro-iOS fans, with their hostile nature towards everything Google, doesn't help anything either.The reason I switched to Android several years ago was not just the temptations it offered: openness, full flexability to customize whatever I wanted, &c. The other reason was that I had had enough of Apples walled garden approach ("You are forbidden from using apps we say that you can't use") and the control they take away from the user. Though Google doesn't give you all the control you could ever want, they give you a lot more than Apple does. Does Google's app store plagued with viruses once and a while? Sure, but that's why Adroid has alternative app stores. Plus, Android has its own advantages; for example, people say that they can send iMesages on other Mac devices. I can send text messages from any device that has the ability to access the internet, interpret _javascript_ and execute web pages. I don't need to spend an extra thousand dollars just to be able to do that. And I can install apps that way too. But I digress.This hole battle between screen readers needs to end. A book shouldn't be judged on its cover, as they say, and a similar concept applies here.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487707/#p487707
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Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
@30, my point is that it shouldn't be dependent on whether one screen reader on one platform is better than another on another platform to determine that platforms "value", which is literally the basis of every supposed complaint about Android. You *do not* need every single feature that voice over has to use iOS, do you? No, you don't. Those "extras" are luxuries -- enhancements to make the user experience a bit better. But not all of them are necessities. Perhaps if we didn't come in, guns blazing, towards accessibility teams like Googles accessibility team, we'd actually make some progress. But pro-iOS fans, with their hostile nature towards everything Google, doesn't help anything either.The reason I switched to Android several years ago was not just the temptations it offered: openness, full flexability to customize whatever I wanted, &c. The other reason was that I had had enough of Apples walled garden approach ("You are forbidden from using apps we say that you can't use") and the control they take away from the user. Though Google doesn't give you all the control you could ever want, they give you a lot more than Apple does. Does Google's app store plagued with viruses once and a while? Sure, but that's why Adroid has alternative app stores. Plus, Android has its own advantages; for example, people say that they can send iMesages on other Mac devices. I can send text messages from any device that has the ability to access the internet, interpret _javascript_ and execute web pages. I don't need to spend an extra thousand dollars just to be able to do that. And I can install apps that way too. But I digress.This hole battle between screen readers needs to end. A book shouldn't be judged on its cover, as they say, and a similar concept applies here.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487707/#p487707
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Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @30, my point is that it shouldn't be dependent on whether one screen reader on one platform is better than another on another platform, which is literally the basis of every supposed complaint about Android. You *donot* need every single featurethat voice over has to use iOS, do you? No, you don't. Those "extras" are luxuries -- enhancements to make the user experience a bit better. But not all of them are necessitieis. Perhaps if we didn't come in, guns blazing, towards accessibility teams like Googles accessibility team, we'd actually make some progress. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487707/#p487707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Yep, I saw the forum and it certainly needs more content. For starters though, a download page is definitely the priority in my opinion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487691/#p487691 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @27:There is a forum for Commentary, though not a lot is on it. If people wanted to add stuff though...https://jieshuo-screenreader.com/forum/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487689/#p487689 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @27:There is a forum for Commentary, though absolutely nothing is on it. If people wanted to add stuff though...https://jieshuo-screenreader.com/forum/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487689/#p487689 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I am not talking about accessibility of apps, I don't ever expect that and I am saying right now that should not happen. Not every app can be made accessible. I am talking about a standard for phone manufacturers, talk about comparing Apples to oranges? As for VO VS talkback, no, there are common features which VO does way better or which Talkback does not have at all. App specific configurations, , assigning a gesture to pretty much every function like jumping to next heading, link, button and so on, way more keyboard shortcuts, text detection from images, a way to speak emoji without depending on the TTS as well as a way to toggle whether you want them spoken or no, as well as another toggle to choose whether the word emoji proceeds the announcement, a braille keyboard built in, and there is probably no need to go on. All of these features have nothing to do with different architectures of the respective operating systems, they simply have to do a lot with how much time is dedicated to the screen reader. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487681/#p487681 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @22, that doesn't make TB unworthy/worse than VO. Does it lack some features that VO has? Certainly. Does that make it somehow inferior? Nope. Apples to oranges, NVDA/JAWS to Orca. Completely different screen readers, completely different architectures and maintainers. This little war of screen readers won't help anyone. (Also, Microsoft cares about accessibility yet they've set no "accessibility standard" for apps to be approvedin the app store; why should Google? If memory serves Apple hasn't either.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487667/#p487667 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @nuno, that's a huge improvement at least. Hope it can work outside of websites though, as mentioned previously. Will have to give it a go on the pixel at some point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487661/#p487661 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Or perhaps the problem of no complete documentation? I'm not trying to rush it, but stop accusing your future users, it wont work out well for you. I understand completely that translation is not an easy task. However, we still don't have a central place for commentary like a website where you can find it's documentation, download links and so on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487647/#p487647 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Oh and about guys complaining that CSR is not a whole lot better than TB, if someone cannot use the tool given then its only there own problem URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487641/#p487641 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @23, try for yoursxself. Left/right swipes toggle navigation moves and up/down actually move. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487640/#p487640 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @TheGreatCarver something to keep in mind about the Pixel4. Soli for skipping songs works about 8 out of 10 times. There are times where it just won't work and times where it works great. Soli works every time to quiet alarms as you reach tward your phone as well as faster unlock features. I haven't dismissed an alarm with a wave so can't speak on that. The Pixel4 has bad reviews for battery life. This hasn't been an issue for me yet but something to be aware of. Google is also releasing feature updates for the Pixel which is really cool. A new feature added was the option to automaticly screen unknown numbers. Google's fabric case that they sell feels nice but won't protect your phone if you drop it. It also leaves the charging port open and has limited protection for the front edge of the phone. The case does support whireless charging but I don't think it's a good primary case. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487561/#p487561 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Fully agreed. Also a pixel user, last tested on the latest version of android 10. I'm not saying there haven't been improvements, but considering how far ahead apple have been, there's really no excuse for google at this point. Commentary isn't bad, but it's really not a hole lot better than talkback.Speaking of, @nuno, you mention proper web navigation in commentary. Is this implimented in sutch a way it's actually intuitive to use and doesn't involve swiping twice left and right on the screen, double tapping the bottom, shaking your phone while doing a tap dance, followed by spinning around on your head singing the north korean national anthem in reverse for 10 minutes? If not, I'll kindly disregard your comment. You also say that IOS is a piece of shit, without supplying any argument to support your claim. Other than apple's famous wallgardening, which can easily be circumvented by jailbreaking, not sure what else you could be talking about. Apple's high prices are usually for a very good reason, take the face ID sencers, haptic engines in the Iphone 10s and upp, etc. BTW, you can get a 10 R for a fraction of the price of the 11, much better value, so your argument is pretty much nullified there too.Edit.Something I forgot to mention, but even if web navigation is a thing in commentary, if you can't navigate by characters, words, lines, etc outside of websites, or even do other things you can do with the rotor on IOS, it might as well not be there at all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487524/#p487524 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Fully agreed. Also a pixel user, last tested on the latest version of android 10. I'm not saying there haven't been improvements, but considering how far ahead apple have been, there's really no excuse for google at this point. Commentary isn't bad, but it's really not a hole lot better than talkback.Speaking of, @nuno, you mention proper web navigation in commentary. Is this implimented in sutch a way it's actually intuitive to use and doesn't involve swiping twice left and right on the screen, double tapping the bottom, shaking your phone while doing a tap dance, followed by spinning around on your head singing the north korean national anthem in reverse for 10 minutes? If not, I'll kindly disregard your comment. You also say that IOS is a piece of shit, without supplying any argument to support your claim. Other than apple's famous wallgardening, which can easily be circumvented by jailbreaking, not sure what else you could be talking about. Apple's high prices are usually for a very good reason, take the face ID sencers, haptic engines in the Iphone 10s and upp, etc. BTW, you can get a 10 R for a fraction of the price of the 11, much better value, so your argument is pretty much nullified there too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487524/#p487524 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Issues I mentioned are core Talkback issues unrelated to any manufacturer happening on latest and greatest Google stock hardware. If that isn't as smooth as possible then I do not know what should be. I agree that some problems are manufacturer specific, which does not make them invalid. If Google was dedicated to accessibility, they would develop a standard each manufacturer must respect before getting a licence to include Google apps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487523/#p487523 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) The problem here I think is that *every* issue people attribute to android is a massive generalization. That's because Android is open and allows any vendor to do pretty much whatever they like with it. Android is not iOS, so I think pro-iOS fans should probably not think of it like that. That's like an NVDA user applying the same expectations to Orca on Linux -- it just won't work. Apple to Oranges, forgive the pun. You cannot say that Talkback has so and so issues when that version of Talkback, plus modifications (if any) applied by the manufacturer, is probably not the same one that someone else is using. Same goes for apps and pretty much everything else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487437/#p487437 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) The problem here I think is that *every* issue people attribute to android is a massive generalization. That's because Android is open and allows any vendor to do pretty much whatever they like with it. Android is not iOS, so I think pro-iOS fans should probably not think of it like that. That's like an NVDA user applying the same expectations to Orca on Linux -- it just won't work. Apple to Oranges, forgive the pun. You cannot say that Talkback has so and so issues when that version of Talkback, plus modifications (if any) applied by the manufacturer, is probably not the same one that someone else is using. Same goes for apps and pretty much everything else. That may also be why people claim that the accessibility team at Google is horrible (without any evidence, mind). Hmmm, could that be the attitude of the not-posted emails, maybe? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487437/#p487437 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) The problem here I think is that *every* issue people attribute to android is a massive generalization. That's because Android is open and allows any vendor to do pretty much whatever they like with it. Android is not iOS, so I think pro-iOS fans should probably not think of it like that. That's like an NVDA user applying the same expectations to Orca on Linux -- it just won't work. Apple to Oranges, forgive the pun. You cannot say that Talkback has so and so issues when that version of Talkback, plus modifications (if any) applied by the manufacturer, is probably not the same one that someone else is using. Same goes for apps and pretty much everything else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487437/#p487437 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) I switched the local contects gesture to actions. If I swipe up and than right I can quickly swipe to delete. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487433/#p487433 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Sorry, custom actions are being replaced by what exactly? By using nothing? That's so bad it kills the productivity a lot on Android. To give some examples, let's go in the mail app:On iOS, I am swiping through the list of emails. If I want to take an action on one of them, I swipe up and down to choose delete, star or whatever I want to do, and double tap to do that. After this, my focus goes to the next message. On Android, I swipe through the email, and two buttons I probably wont use to select a message or star it. I wonder why nobody at Google realizes how inefficient this is. The same example can be applied to messages, or really any app where you are in a list of items and each item has specific options. I mean, imagine if you are using Windows to navigate the list of messages. Instead of up and down moving you through the list, you would find a message, then buttons such as delete, mark as unread, star, select, and then the next press of down moves you to the next message. Where do you see that? That's what I hate about Google, they have some of these weird concepts no other screen reader has which make things really awquard and unintuitive. Talkback is the only screen reader with no way to turn speech off, with no way to navigate by buttons, tables and other commonly used HTML elements, with no way to simply switch a language on the fly, and many other things I could mention, most of which even basic screen readers on Simbian could do.C ustom actions are not going away though, so if that's not spreading misinformation then I don't know what is. Google uses them in their own apps, I wish they would do it more though together with other developers, and commentary should definitely support them as if anything, it makes home screen editing a lot easier. Commentary is a great screen reader, and certainly something that makes Android a much better option once you get used to it, but it needs some improvements, probably not as much in the software as it does in it's distribution. We need a website where it can be downloadedand regularly updated, there's no reason to distribute it via telegram. I wish a great future to this screen reader though, it has the best potential to be developed into an amazing program. Thanks for your translation, as always Nuno, it would be sad if the English community missed such an amazing project. Hopefully, Android will improve in the future and I can switch back to it, since if we are talking outside of the accessibility point of view, Android is the best operating system for me and I will always try to have a backup device to monitor Talkback's development. The way it's going now though, I don't see myself coming back. There are at least two things I want in order to be as productive, and those are the above mentioned custom actions and a faster way to type, preferably in braille. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487431/#p487431 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Edit: I haven't tried commentary screen reader, I'll give it a shot and post my thoughts. Looking forward to it.Strong language aheadIOS is good, I'll give you that, but why pay $1600.00AUD for an iPhone x, when I can pay for a samsung galaxy A20 for only $299.00AUD.They both have fingerprint, face ID, cgood cameras, and who the fuck needs 3 cameras, eat a fucking dick.Android lasts longer, I still have a samsung galaxy s3, and it works better then my iPhone 6s.I currently use the samsung galaxy A20, excellent phone if you just want a cheep one for a year if your going through college and school and you need to save up.IOS 13 is absolutely horse shit, the bugs are amounted like crazy, voice over, despite having te appearance of being updated, are not getting updated with 3rd pary apps. They only care about shit developed for them, by them, and used by them. They're selfish. Android focuses on integrating accessibility into all their apps, and although their accessibility isn't as great as apples, at least they have accessibility in 3rd party apps. Flick type? Flick type! I"ve been using quicktyping for my whole life of IOS, and not once did I feel that flicktype was better. Its charity, and a bullshit excuse for accessibility. It actually impeeds your typing, but (And I mean this in no offence) but blind people wouldn't amount to the speed of a normal sighted person to realise the difference.Personal preference on that one.GBoard is wonderful for android, cause it makes androids shitty ass keyboard into one that is usable for blind people. I manage with the current one but I run out of patients for it sometimes.The biggest thing I like about it is wireboard. Look it up.Rant over lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487419/#p487419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Strong language aheadIOS is good, I'll give you that, but why pay $1600.00AUD for an iPhone x, when I can pay for a samsung galaxy A20 for only $299.00AUD.They both have fingerprint, face ID, cgood cameras, and who the fuck needs 3 cameras, eat a fucking dick.Android lasts longer, I still have a samsung galaxy s3, and it works better then my iPhone 6s.I currently use the samsung galaxy A20, excellent phone if you just want a cheep one for a year if your going through college and school and you need to save up.IOS 13 is absolutely horse shit, the bugs are amounted like crazy, voice over, despite having te appearance of being updated, are not getting updated with 3rd pary apps. They only care about shit developed for them, by them, and used by them. They're selfish. Android focuses on integrating accessibility into all their apps, and although their accessibility isn't as great as apples, at least they have accessibility in 3rd party apps. Flick type? Flick type! I"ve been using quicktyping for my whole life of IOS, and not once did I feel that flicktype was better. Its charity, and a bullshit excuse for accessibility. It actually impeeds your typing, but (And I mean this in no offence) but blind people wouldn't amount to the speed of a normal sighted person to realise the difference.Personal preference on that one.GBoard is wonderful for android, cause it makes androids shitty ass keyboard into one that is usable for blind people. I manage with the current one but I run out of patients for it sometimes.The biggest thing I like about it is wireboard. Look it up.Rant over lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487419/#p487419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Oh and now less officially.iOS is a piece of shit and @1.Android is goinn away from the custom actions thing which was used from Android 8 to 9 extensively, and now it is replaced by other operation methods. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487216/#p487216 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hello!I would like to report that we have added a proper web navigation for the Commentary Screenreader some 3 months or so, so plrase refrain from posting misinformation.Thank you! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487215/#p487215 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Hello!I wiould like to report that we have added a rotor for the Commentary Screenreader some 3 months or so, so plrase refrain from posting misinformation.Thank you! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487215/#p487215 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) 13.2 was fine when I tried it, 13.3 I hated however. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487177/#p487177 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) Yeah, what google are doing with the pixel is a step in the right direction. That's still not the case for 99 per cent of android phones though.As for IOS 13, 13.2 and 13.3 together fixed most of the bugs. I used it for a good month or two on the 6S and had no issues with it. Since the battery in the 6S litterilly exploaded I've been stuck with an IPhone 4 running IOS 6, but I'll hopefully be getting a new phone within the next couple weeks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487146/#p487146 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) @11 I don't personally mind the 1 finger swipe up and down, or the two finger scrolling. To each there own though. And commentary actually has better vibrations, I even admin, talkbacks vibrations are loud as fuck. And yeah, the pixel 1 just had support ended on it this year, so that's almost 4 years there. My friend had, and still has, a pixel one that still works fine, accept the battery isn't very good. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487102/#p487102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) The first Pixel was released in 2016 and support just ended for it. That's 3 years not 2 and you can probably still side load updates after that. I've gotten along well enough with out the rotor I don't even miss it. Talkback only has 1 finger gestures however a new feature in Android 10 is to use 2 finger jestures instead of the 3 buttons at the bottom. Hopefully this isn't just on Pixels but can't say for sure. I also want to point out that I left IOS13 which was very buggy. I can't speak to 4 as I'm new to Android but this sounds like an issue of preference than accessibility. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487099/#p487099 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4)
Re: Suggestions for Switching from iOS to Android (Pixel 4) 1. No real kind of rotor. I'm sorry, but talkback's shitty little swipe up and down to change navigation modes thing just doesn't count, nore does commentary's weird janky gestures thing.2. Gestures. IDK what it is with android screen readers and putting in weird multi finger gestures that are not intuitive at all. That's one common trate they all seem to share, at least as far as I've tried, which is a lot.3. No real ulternative to flicktype or BSI. No, SBK doesn't count here, not at all.4. Lack of accessibility improvements. Over the past few years, voiceover has received many updates. Some are things that should have been done years ago, whilst others, like activities, the new voiceover haptics, etc are actually innovative, where as talkback's development has more or less been on a standstill for the past few years, and all of this super cool ultra amazing unbeatably awesome AI google keeps talking about has thus far not been introduced to talkback.By the way, since you'll probably mention it, yes I know talkback has vibrations. They are *not* the same thing as haptics. It's difficult to explain, but go to an apple store and try an IPhone 10 R or something. You'll see what I'm talking about instantly, and it's a huge upgrade over the too loud overly intrusive vibrations of talkback.One last thing I'd like to mention would be support. Apple has developed a reputation over the years for generally being good at not only creating devices that can withstand a lot and also survive for long amounts of time, but also for supporting said devices for long amounts of time. Generally, the longest amount of time you'll have support for on an android phone is two years. Phones like the IPhone 6S, however, which I used up until about a week ago, are still getting updates, despite being released in 2015. The IPhone 5S and 6, released in 2013 and 2014 respectively, were both supported all the way up to IOS 12. That's, a very long time for any phone to be supported, and more than you'll probably ever get out of an android phone.I could go on and on about all the other various issues android has, but I think my point is well made. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487086/#p487086 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
