Re: [backstage] A familiar face...

[Simon Thompson]

 Still do.

I had to prove I could draw a weather map from a single listen to the 
shipping forecast (after being awake for nearly 36 hours) just last weekend.


http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileBank/PDF/met-map.pdf

Yet to be on a boat that doesn't listen religiously to the Shipping 
Forecast.



Simon

On 18/05/2011 16:46, Ant Miller wrote:
Back in the day we used to have photocopies sheets with the areas 
listed and you'd jot in the forecast off the radio.  I have just 
recalled that day was 20 years ago.  Bugger.


On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Gareth Davis <mailto:gareth.da...@bbc.co.uk>> wrote:



If I'm out on the water I'd listen via the coastguard MSI bulletin on
VHF, rather than tune in to Radio 4. But it's still the shipping
forecast either way.

> -Original Message-
> From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk
<mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk>
> [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk
<mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk>] On Behalf Of Tom Scott
> Sent: 18 May 2011 15:00
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk <mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [backstage] A familiar face...
>
> Every boat I've be a crew on always tunes in. Although the
> 1979 Fastnet Race is often mentioned...
> Tom
>
>
> On 18/05/2011 14:35, "Dirk-Willem van Gulik"
> mailto:di...@webweaving.org>> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 18 May 2011, at 14:23, Robert Binney wrote:
> >
> >> I have been told that "no sailors listen to the Shipping
> Forecast" -
> >> can this be true?
> >
> > Well - if you have the money (and enough battery power and
ample of
> > pricey thermal paper) - you get it off your navtex(1) or from the
> > met-office feed of immarsat(2).  But I've found myself in a
> situation
> > more than once where knowing that you could be having _reliable_
> > warnings with just a simple battery & radio independent of
> it all was very reassuring.
> >
> > Dw.
> >
> > 1:
> >
>
http://www.frisnit.com/cgi-bin/navtex/view.cgi?NAVAREA=1&action=browse
<http://www.frisnit.com/cgi-bin/navtex/view.cgi?NAVAREA=1&action=browse>
> > &TYPE=24
> > H - the MET ones.
> > 2: http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/shtml/UKMHSFAT
> >
> >
> > -
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Re: [backstage] Internet Standards role

[Simon Thompson]

9 is the pay grade, not the number of days - 9D means a grade 9 person on
days conditions.

It may be a continuing or fixed term contract.


On 7 September 2010 10:23, Richard P Edwards  wrote:

> This is why I find the 9 days bit intriguing. In the "old" days I used to
> put in 120  hour weeks, so I know exactly what you mean by addiction... the
> interesting part is that the UK seems to have gone to part time contracts
> where, as Simon says, you can work an 80 hour week with no overtime.
> OK, you get days off in lieu, but in that kind of job I suspect that
> finding the free days to take off could be pretty difficult... unless you
> take a long holiday every summer... in which case the BBC office effectively
> "closes" for that time.
> I think that I can see this ending is all sorts of chaos. :-) In my case,
> we did not get paid days off in lieu... so if you needed to sleep you had to
> swallow the financial inconvenience. Neither way is perfect, but calling for
> a contractual 9 day week seems somehow unsettling for me.
> Looks like a great job though, they'd also prefer someone "uncompetitive" -
> now that made me smile.
> Regards
> RichE
>
>
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Re: [backstage] Internet Standards role

[Simon Thompson]

Nope, on days condition you get paid for each day you work - overtime is
only available if you work more days than you should in a week.  So you
could work 80 hours over 5 days and get 0 overtime. (Overtime is paid in
days off in lieu - except in special circumstances)

On 7 September 2010 09:20, Richard P Edwards  wrote:

> Is that a 56 hour week with overtime only after that point then?
> RichE
>
> On 7 Sep 2010, at 10:06, Ant Miller wrote:
>
> > it sort of makes sense, in that we still have some operational support
> > roles that are shift based, and some part time.  having days and hours
> > terms for role grades ensures these peoples pay and conditions are
> > always part of the collective terms of employment.
> >
> > On 9/7/10, Gordon Joly  wrote:
> >>  On 07/09/2010 08:40, Ant Miller wrote:
> >>> and that's "days" as opposed to "hours" in case anyone was wondering
> >>> if there was going to be a nocturnal equivalent role.
> >>>
> >>
> >> How very quaint... and out of sync with modern employment practices (bar
> >> the Post Office).
> >>
> >> Gordo
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gordon Joly
> >> gordon.j...@pobox.com
> >> http://www.joly.org.uk/
> >> Don't Leave Space To The Professionals!
> >>
> >> -
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> >> Unofficial list archive:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ant Miller
> >
> > tel: 07709 265961
> > email: ant.mil...@gmail.com
> > -
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Re: [backstage] Video on Demand Dissertation Survey

[Simon Stirrat]

In hindsight it would have been better to ask someone before spamming
it out to everyone. I'm sorry Ian, I'll do things differently next
time.

Thank you everyone for there responses, I really appreciate it. And
I'm very surprised that SurveyMonkey doesn't support WebKit, something
else I'll remember next time.

On 2 March 2010 12:46, Ian Forrester  wrote:
>
>> p.s. I hope this doesn't break any of the house rules.
>
> There are house rules? Cripes.
>
> -
>
> So there are not exactly house rules, but its always good to run stuff like 
> this pass me first just to make sure.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
> -
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s.stir...@rave.ac.uk

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[backstage] Video on Demand Dissertation Survey

[Simon Stirrat]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently writing my third year dissertation on the subject of
video-on-demand services and digital distribution as a whole.
I have setup an survey here (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/96QFCMZ),
it only has 5 questions so it shouldn't take anymore than 30 seconds
to complete.

--
Simon Stirrat
Broadcast Engineering Student at Ravensbourne College
streetma...@gmail.com
s.stir...@rave.ac.uk

p.s. I hope this doesn't break any of the house rules.
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Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer for Apple TV

[Simon Cross]

Tweed, once again, I love you.

Will be SSH hacking tonight.

S


On 02/02/2010 22:14, "Jonathan Tweed"  wrote:

> On 2 Feb 2010, at 21:43, Mo McRoberts wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 2-Feb-2010, at 21:14, Jonathan Tweed wrote:
>> 
>>> I've been working on something over the last few weeks that might
>>> be of interest to a few people here: an Apple TV plugin for BBC
>>> iPlayer.
>> 
>> Ohhh, very nice work!
>> 
>> Not tried it yet, mind. It'd require re-jailbreaking my aTV. might
>> give it a whirl at the weekend. Nice use of flvstreamer :)
> 
> Thanks, it's been a fun project.
> 
> Do feel free to fork and improve :)
> 
> Cheers
> Jonathan
> -
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-- 
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Online Media Group, Future Media and Technology,
BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre, White City
simon.cr...@bbc.co.uk
07967 444 304
twitter: sicross

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Re: [backstage] Is this BBC "Homeplug" product legal?

[Simon Thompson]

Oops, same team did look into internal systems, but the noise problem is 
similar.  I'll see if I can find their report.




Mo McRoberts wrote:

On 15-Dec-2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote:

  
The RF noise generated by these technologies is quite bad,  it's in a band where noise can propogate worldwide via the ionosphere.  It can prevent receivers locking to, or demodulating a signal.  


http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP116.pdf



Is that not a four and a half year old report into a trial of a PLT system 
which delivered broadband access via power supply lines, rather than a product 
which makes use of internal power cabling to provide home networking? (I 
realise the underlying tech is similar, though things have moved on a bit in 
that time, but context is somewhat important, no?)

M.

  


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Research and Development Engineer
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Research and Development*
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Re: [backstage] Is this BBC "Homeplug" product legal?

[Simon Thompson]

Wasn't encryption an option on Homeplug 1.0?  I thought it came with 
either a default password or the option to switch it on.


Stephen Jolly wrote:

On 15 Dec 2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote:
  

Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from your 
house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure!



I think the Homeplug AV standard uses 128-bit AES traffic encryption, which 
should be enough to foil the casual attacker, assuming it's competently 
implemented.

S


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Re: [backstage] Is this BBC "Homeplug" product legal?

[Simon Thompson]

The RF noise generated by these technologies is quite bad,  it's in a 
band where noise can propogate worldwide via the ionosphere.  It can 
prevent receivers locking to, or demodulating a signal. 


http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP116.pdf

Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from 
your house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure!



Simon

PS Single wire telephone extensions?


Alan Pope wrote:

2009/12/14 Brian Butterworth :
  

As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to 
Why would you want to use a HomePlug?



Because it's easier than flood wiring the whole house.

  

 People used to have landline phones
upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that.



Usually one wire, singular. With HomePlug I can have ethernet wherever
there is a power point, and I do move them around now and then.

  

 HomePlug is not just
pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to
astronomers.



I must say I'd never heard of the radio interference at all.

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: [backstage] iPlayer on Freesat in November.

[Simon Thompson]

Was the Netgem ever awarded a Digital Tick?



Paul Webster wrote:
Freeview with Ethernet - yes Netgem iPlayer (yes - they had been using 
the name for ages before BBC iPlayer).

Lots of advanced features - for it's time.

(Ethernet via USB dongle)

Paul

--
Sent from my phone

On 4 Nov 2009, at 09:35, Brian Butterworth <mailto:briant...@freeview.tv>> wrote:



Can you name a single Freeview box with an Ethernet port?

2009/11/4 Nico Morrison <mailto:microni...@gmail.com>>



http://www.trustedreviews.com/home-cinema/news/2009/11/04/BBC-iPlayer-Hits-Freesat-in-November/p1

Does that mean we'll get it on Freeview as well?

Nico M





--

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follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and 
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[backstage] Re: Sky hits out at Project Canvas

[Simon Thompson]

Mo McRoberts wrote:

Canvas has also announced a “position of alignment” with the HbbTV initiative:

http://www.iptv-news.com/iptv_news/october_09/project_canvas_cooperating_with_hbbtv_initiative

And frankly, looking at the website:

http://www.hbbtv.org/

…it doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence, especially as it doesn’t
appear to have publicly released ANYTHING yet except a list of
participants.

  




Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV (HBBtv) is a service like Canvas being 
implemented by Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik.


Hybrid Broadcast Broadband (HBB) is a group at the European Broadcasting 
Union looking at the harmonisation of Canvas, HBBtv, MHEG-5 IPTV, MHP, 
OIPTV and commercial offerings from the likes of Samsung and Panasonic. 
There's a brief write-up here 
http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech-i/ebu_tech-i_001.pdf





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Re: [backstage] Free as in 'Freedom'

[Simon Thompson]

David Tomlinson wrote:


I am not alone:

http://ssrn.com/abstract=976733


"It is not surprising that such broad criticism, from such a diverse 
group of critics, has now emerged. Intellectual property products form 
the core of today’s "New Economy" of high technology, communications, 
and entertainment"



[...]

"We need at least some voices to remind the courts and policy makers 
of the costs of monopoly and the view that competition has a vital 
role to play in incentivizing innovation"





A quote from the abstract of an accepted paper to a non-peer reviewed 
journal edited by second year law students about US intellectual 
property law does not prove the case the argument.



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Re: [backstage] "free london's data" event

[Simon Thompson]

Richard Smedley wrote:

Ian Forrester wrote:

Ah London's got no chance :)
I think theres something bubbling up which is similar but with support
from the local and regional government agencies in Greater Manchester.

Like they say, Manchester does today what London does tomorrow ;)


In the case of the co-operative movement, or of
vegetarian restaurants, it's more like "Manchester
did 150 years ago, what London's beginning to do now..." ;-P

- Richard

I suppose Rochdale is in Greater Manchester, but the Rochdale 
co-operative came after Ayshire, New Lanark, Glasgow, Indiana, Hampshire 
and Brighton

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[backstage] Compatibility challenges for Broadcast Networks and White Space Devices

[Simon Thompson]

A Colleagues paper from the recent IBC conference has been made 
available: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/09/compatability_challenges_for_b.html


Interested to see what people think.

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Re: [backstage] The BBC is encrypting its HD signal by the back door

[Simon Thompson]

Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote:



On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 19:07, Nick Reynolds-FM&T 
mailto:nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk>> wrote:


that's why there's a public consultation
 




Where? There doesn't seem to be anything related on ofcom's site

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/?open=Yes§or=Broadcasting%20-%20TV 
<http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/?open=Yes§or=Broadcasting%20-%20TV>



You'd think they'd be the ones doing the consulting.





They were, you've missed the consultation cut-off date.

The outcome will be posted in due course.


--
----
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Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

[Simon Thompson]

Poor choice of words by me.

Multiplex B is having the SD channels removed from it and is being converted
to MPEG4 part 10 and DVB-T2 to allow HD channels to be transmitted.

2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth 

> Multiplex B aka PSB3 aka BBCB is not VACATED by the BBC, BBC FTV Ltd still
> owns the multiplex.   It is being used for Freeview HD carrying three (soon
> four) public service HD channels.
>
> 2009/9/17 Simon Thompson 
>
> Ofcom is going to use Multiplex B (vacated by the BBC) to provide DVB-T2 HD
>> services.  First region on air is Granada later this year.
>>
>> 2009/9/17 Alun Rowe 
>>
>>
>>>  Will we ever see HD freeview though?  The bandwidth requirement would
>>> be enormous.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:53, "Frankie Roberto" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/9/17 Christopher Woods < 
>>> chris...@infinitus.co.uk>
>>>
>>>  Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag
>>>> implementation, the more creative technological tinkerers will have
>>>> subverted the flag entirely using commonplace/free equipment and software.
>>>> Like region coding, broadcast flags really are an exercise in stupidity and
>>>> corporate backslapping.
>>>>
>>>
>>> By the sounds of it, the main 'enforcement' mechanism of the metadata
>>> compression/encryption isn't so much technological, as the fact that you
>>> won't be able to use the "Freeview HD" logo, or be listed on the Freeview
>>> website, without signing for a free licence (which requires you to implement
>>> some as-yet-unspecified restrictions). Which won't really stop free software
>>> from existing - but may stop it from being a commercial success.
>>>
>>> That said, I wonder how many people will really bother to upgrade from
>>> Freeview to Freeview HD anyway - standard definition Freeview seems good
>>> enough for most people (especially those with non-enormous tellies). So the
>>> migration to Freeview HD will happen slowly, as people upgrade their
>>> televisions as part of their natural lifecycle. (Assuming that the signal
>>> doesn't get switched off).
>>>
>>> Frankie
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frankie Roberto
>>> Experience Designer, Rattle
>>> 0114 2706977
>>> <http://www.rattlecentral.com>http://www.rattlecentral.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of
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>>>
>>>
>>>  *Alun Rowe*
>>>
>>> *Pentangle Internet Limited*
>>>
>>> 2 Buttermarket
>>>
>>> Thame
>>>
>>> Oxfordshire
>>>
>>> OX9 3EW
>>>
>>> Tel: +44 8700 339905
>>>
>>> Fax: +44 8700 339906
>>> *Please direct all support requests to 
>>> **it-supp...@pentangle.co.uk*
>>>
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>>> Wales. Registered number: 3960918. Registered office: 1 Lauras Close, Great
>>> Staughton, Cambridgeshire PE19 5DP
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> GMAIL Account
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
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>



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Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

[Simon Thompson]

Last time I checked the Blue book it didn't mention bitrates:
http://www.dvb.org/technology/standards/a122r1.tm3980r7.DVB-T2.pdf

And the last time I saw the chairman of the DVB-T2 technical module speaking
he mentioned 36 Mbps:



2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth 

> Wikipedia is wrong (that's a suprise).  The carrying capacity is 30Mbps,
> according to the specification.
>
> 2009/9/18 Simon Thompson 
>
> 30 Mbps is a bit of a low estimate for T2.
>>
>> Wikipedia suggests at least 35.
>>
>> 2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth 
>>
>> Briefly, DVB-T2 uses MPEG4 delivered in a 30Mbps (compare 18Mbps and
>>> 24Mps) multiplex using 256QAM (compared with 16QAM and 64QAM) with LDPC/BCH
>>> error correction (not FEC)  and 32k carriers (compare 2k and 8k).
>>> http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051377
>>>
>>> Basically, this is not a software upgrade!
>>>
>>> 2009/9/17 Brendan Quinn 
>>>
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>> > I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed
>>>> > changes?
>>>>
>>>> Ant replied:
>>>> > You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview
>>>> > should still be available.  Think of Freeview + as an optional
>>>> > upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> To which Alun wrote:
>>>> > I meant in terms of the HD element if they are changing the spec?  If
>>>> there is a
>>>> > decryption requirement I doubt the Topfield will have it?
>>>>
>>>> I would say you're right, your box wont' receive HD freeview signals.
>>>> But that's not (only) because of any encryption, it's because the spec
>>>> for encoding HD over freeview [1] was only agreed last week and the
>>>> first box was announced five days ago, to be released "in the first half
>>>> of 2010":
>>>>
>>>> http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-h
>>>> d-box/<http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-h%0Ad-box/>
>>>>
>>>> I guess you have this box [2]:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.topfield.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1
>>>> 0&catid=2&Itemid=3<http://www.topfield.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1%0A0&catid=2&Itemid=3>
>>>>
>>>> It uses "HDMI upscaling" to work with your HD TV. But it's not actually
>>>> processing the real freeview HD signal and never can -- your box needs
>>>> different chips to be able to do that. So to actually see Freeview HD in
>>>> HD, you will need to buy a new box :-(
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Brendan.
>>>> [1] known as DVB-T2. The DVB are the standards committee for most TV
>>>> standards in Europe, India, Australia etc. The BBC is a member. DVB-T
>>>> was the standard for regular freeview, so DVB-T2 is the standard for
>>>> next-gen freeview: the "T" is for terrestrial. You can guess that DVB-C
>>>> is for cable and DVB-S is for satellite... They also have C2 and S2
>>>> standards for HD over those platforms.
>>>> [2] URL edited for brevity -- yes it was much longer than that before --
>>>> but it seems to work...
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>>>> please visit
>>>> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>>>>  Unofficial list archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Brian Butterworth
>>>
>>> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
>>> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
>>> switchover advice, since 2002
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Simon Thompson
>> GMAIL Account
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>



-- 
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Re: [backstage] Re: Freeview HD vs existing "HDMI upscaling" freeview boxes (was RE: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?)

[Simon Thompson]

30 Mbps is a bit of a low estimate for T2.

Wikipedia suggests at least 35.

2009/9/18 Brian Butterworth 

> Briefly, DVB-T2 uses MPEG4 delivered in a 30Mbps (compare 18Mbps and 24Mps)
> multiplex using 256QAM (compared with 16QAM and 64QAM) with LDPC/BCH error
> correction (not FEC)  and 32k carriers (compare 2k and 8k).
> http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051377
>
> Basically, this is not a software upgrade!
>
> 2009/9/17 Brendan Quinn 
>
> Alan wrote:
>> > I assume my topfield HD will be out of date with these proposed
>> > changes?
>>
>> Ant replied:
>> > You'll need to retune, but the services you currently get on Freeview
>> > should still be available.  Think of Freeview + as an optional
>> > upgrade.
>>
>> To which Alun wrote:
>> > I meant in terms of the HD element if they are changing the spec?  If
>> there is a
>> > decryption requirement I doubt the Topfield will have it?
>>
>> I would say you're right, your box wont' receive HD freeview signals.
>> But that's not (only) because of any encryption, it's because the spec
>> for encoding HD over freeview [1] was only agreed last week and the
>> first box was announced five days ago, to be released "in the first half
>> of 2010":
>>
>> http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-h
>> d-box/<http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-h%0Ad-box/>
>>
>> I guess you have this box [2]:
>>
>> http://www.topfield.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1
>> 0&catid=2&Itemid=3<http://www.topfield.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1%0A0&catid=2&Itemid=3>
>>
>> It uses "HDMI upscaling" to work with your HD TV. But it's not actually
>> processing the real freeview HD signal and never can -- your box needs
>> different chips to be able to do that. So to actually see Freeview HD in
>> HD, you will need to buy a new box :-(
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Brendan.
>> [1] known as DVB-T2. The DVB are the standards committee for most TV
>> standards in Europe, India, Australia etc. The BBC is a member. DVB-T
>> was the standard for regular freeview, so DVB-T2 is the standard for
>> next-gen freeview: the "T" is for terrestrial. You can guess that DVB-C
>> is for cable and DVB-S is for satellite... They also have C2 and S2
>> standards for HD over those platforms.
>> [2] URL edited for brevity -- yes it was much longer than that before --
>> but it seems to work...
>>
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>> please visit
>> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>>  Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>



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Re: [backstage] License to Kill Innovation: the Broadcast Flag for UK Digital TV?

[Simon Thompson]

Ofcom is going to use Multiplex B (vacated by the BBC) to provide DVB-T2 HD
services.  First region on air is Granada later this year.

2009/9/17 Alun Rowe 

>
>  Will we ever see HD freeview though?  The bandwidth requirement would be
> enormous.
>
>
> On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:53, "Frankie Roberto" 
> wrote:
>
>
> 2009/9/17 Christopher Woods < 
> chris...@infinitus.co.uk>
>
>  Moreover, you just *know* that within months of any broadcast flag
>> implementation, the more creative technological tinkerers will have
>> subverted the flag entirely using commonplace/free equipment and software.
>> Like region coding, broadcast flags really are an exercise in stupidity and
>> corporate backslapping.
>>
>
> By the sounds of it, the main 'enforcement' mechanism of the metadata
> compression/encryption isn't so much technological, as the fact that you
> won't be able to use the "Freeview HD" logo, or be listed on the Freeview
> website, without signing for a free licence (which requires you to implement
> some as-yet-unspecified restrictions). Which won't really stop free software
> from existing - but may stop it from being a commercial success.
>
> That said, I wonder how many people will really bother to upgrade from
> Freeview to Freeview HD anyway - standard definition Freeview seems good
> enough for most people (especially those with non-enormous tellies). So the
> migration to Freeview HD will happen slowly, as people upgrade their
> televisions as part of their natural lifecycle. (Assuming that the signal
> doesn't get switched off).
>
> Frankie
>
> --
> Frankie Roberto
> Experience Designer, Rattle
> 0114 2706977
> <http://www.rattlecentral.com>http://www.rattlecentral.com
>
>
>
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Re: [backstage] Get me off this list!

[Simon Cross]

Me too.

Can someone please fix the unsubscribe?

S


On 10/09/2009 15:05, "Alun Rowe"  wrote:

> Visiting this: http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html
> 
> Then putting in my details and pressing GO sends me to
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/cgiemail/creativearchive/backstage/discuss.txt
> 
> Which says:
> 
> Error
> No email was sent due to an error.
> 
>500 Could not open template - No such file or directory
> 
>   /home/system/www/creativearchive/backstage/discuss.txt
> cgiemail 1.6
> 
> 
> Help!
> 
> 

-- 
Simon Cross
Product Manager, BBC iD
Online Media Group, Future Media and Technology,
BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre, White City
simon.cr...@bbc.co.uk
07967 444 304
twitter: sicross

Re: [backstage] The Final Digital Britain report

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:



*132. "Another missing infrastructure link for digital terrestrial TV 
is a return path for interactive services - a capability already 
provided on satellite, DSL and cable networks."* 

That's because it's a broadcast, not a peer-to-peer network. And this 
"return path" would be - oh yes, the internet. 



Not necessarily, DVB-RCS and DVB-RCT are two return channel standards 
issued by DVB recently offering Return Channels via Satellite and 
Terrestrial transmissions


*101 ... higher mobile termination rates applied to T-Mobile and 
Orange have provided some compensation for the higher costs associated 
with poorer propagation properties.* 

Or, in English, "T-Mobile/Virgin and Orange (1800Mhz) phones don't 
work as well as Vodafone and O2 (900 MHz) ones, but cost more to call. " 




I think they mean that to get similar coverage, more base stations are 
needed, which incurs a greater cost.



--
----
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Research and Development Engineer
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Research and Development*
<mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk>

Re: [backstage] The Final Digital Britain report

[Simon Thompson]

Some of the language is odd.

"Filesharing for profit" - what about web piracy that is for personal use,
but which circumvents residual payment?

"Digital Radio Upgrade" - re-worded from the interim report, where
switchover was used.



2009/6/17 Rob Myers 

> 2009/6/17 Ian Forrester 
>
>> I got to say I'm also with ukfsn.org and not really had any major
>> problems
>
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> I'll take a look.
>
> - Rob.
>
>


-- 
Simon Thompson

Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies

[Simon Thompson]

Tim Dobson wrote:

Tim Dobson wrote:

I'll get some video up soon,


Here is some of the video I took, feel free to take a look:
http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509/SANY0004.MP4 (700mb)


Is that from a Xacti?  Has it had any filters applied or 
post-processing, e.g. been graded?  They're excellent cameras for the price.


Have you manually white-balanced the camera?  There's a shot where the 
sky's chrominance changes suddenly as you tack onto port and I'm 
wondering if there's some sort of automatic thing going awry.


Depth-of-field is huge, although you're losing some of the background 
(maybe camera optics).


Really good effort - you're going to have fun trying to get that perfect 
shot with sailor, boat, water and surroundings in, but it's worth the 
effort.


Will be nice to see a finalised clip from the rushes you're making  
-what sort of system are you using for editing?



Simon

--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research and Development Engineer

*BBC Research and Development*
<mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk>

Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies

[Simon Thompson]

Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:

Tim Dobson wrote:

  

So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and
I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing
dinghy.

It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with
desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had
any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this.




There are a few issues with mounting cameras on boats.

  1. Mounting the camera unit high up has it's difficulties
1. by adding weight to the top-hamper (camera, mount and
   cabling) you decrease the stability of the boat
2. the fixing point can weaken the spar section
3. the higher up, the greater the arc of movement
  2. If you're talking a dinghy, then you don't want the camera or
 mount to impede your exit from the boat in event of a capsize
  3. The dinghy will probably have class rules - by adapting it, you
 may not be allowed to enter any events with it.
1. Contact the Principal Race Officer and the Scrutineer/Measurer
  4. Make sure the camera is waterproof first.
  5. HD video played an a large-ish screen is more immersive than SD on
 a box in the corner - you may feel motion sickness
 http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/pdf/RR%201832.pdf

Best I've seen is the Horizon True system 
http://www.youtube.com/v/s67s7ZHbsi0  
http://www.horizontrue.com/sections/order.php  but they're expensive for 
non-broadcast purposes.  A colleague has also experimented with OpenGL 
motion-stabilising - perhaps an area for backstage to look at?


If you're really interested, there's an Olympics test event at Portland 
in September called Sail for Gold 
http://www.sailracer.co.uk/events/event-v2.asp?eventid=18401 where I'm 
sure there'll be mounting systems in action.




--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research and Development Engineer

*BBC Research and Development*
<mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk>

Re: [backstage] Shower Radios

[Simon Thompson]

Lee Ball wrote:

Hello folks,

Sorry to post this here but I know there are lots of people who know a
lot about Radio/TV so it was the first place I thought of.

The background:

I'm looking for a Shower Radio for my girlfriends birthday (its not the
ONLY thing I'm getting her). Ideally it would have support for MP3 built
in but I can't find any of those. Which is odd, how cool would it be to
upload songs to it. Anyway, I digress.

The one I've just found is this the Sony ICFS79V (Amazon link
http://snipurl.com/ge5xk)

It mentions VHF and TV channels. Suggesting it can listen to the audio
from TV channels. Now for my question, is this likely to stop working
once the digital switch over happens? I don't fancy spending nearl £50
on something that half of it will stop working after a while.

Any other suggestions welcomed. I've seen lots of shower radios, I have
a cheap one but its not very good. MP3 isn't a must but would be pretty
cool to have it on there. The other option is these MP3 shower
enclosures, but it essentially locks off the buttons whilst showering.

Many thanks

Lee
  



Hi,


The listing for the radio seems to suggest that TV audio for VHF 
Channels 2-13 is available, unfortunately this is not used in the UK 
anymore (part of it is where DAB now resides) - it is used elsewhere in 
the EU and in the USA for TV still.


Also, the radio suggests it can decode Weather Band - this is a North 
American service.  If this is a radio designed for North America, you 
may find that it has 10kHz steps for the MW band, rather than the 
European standard 9kHz.  This will mean you can't tune a lot of the EU 
stations like Radio 5.


Simon

--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research and Development Engineer

*BBC Research and Development*

Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:




lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps
half-right.


Newtons are
 m·kg·s^-2

^Which is distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless 
"of force" is a magical way of saying distance / time squared? 




No, in imperial measurements the term pound can be used as a unit of 
force or mass, they are different measurements, and their meaning is 
derived from context.


Sometimes pounds-force and pounds-mass if both are being discussed 
simultaneously.  If you're talking about force, the imperial unit of 
mass becomes the slug.



--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET MIEEE*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] HD Videocamera advice please...

[Simon Thompson]

Jim Tonge wrote:



IMHO, plus points for the Sony include no-light nightshot for your 
Blair Witch-style fun, and a (albeit low-rent) Carl Zeiss lens. The 
audio jack is the main selling point for me though.


"...the GOP length will affect the ability to edit the output."

I've never really understood GOP (I know it's to do with interlacing, 
right?) - could you point me in the direction of a clear explanation 
please?






No, nothing to do with interlacing (i.e. you have a GOP with any MPEG 
interlaced or progressive video)


It is the Group of Pictures.  In MPEG you can encode each frame as 
I-Frames, P-Frames or B-Frames.  I-Frames have the complete image, 
P-Frames are predicted based upon changes from an I-Frame or previous 
P-Frame.  B-Frames are similar to P-Frames, but bi-directionally 
predicted (n.b. this implies out of order frame encoding in the encoder) 
from I, P and B-Frames.  A GOP is a sequence of I, P and B-Frames e.g. 
IBBPBBPBBPBB


The GOP length is the number of frames between successive I-Frames.  A 
long GOP length will, for example, cause a delay on video appearing on 
changing channels on a STB or, as editing cuts can only start from an 
I-Frame will mean you can't do frame accurate editing.


Broadcast contributions e.g. DV,  use I-Frame only codecs to allow frame 
accurate editing.




--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET *
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*

Re: [backstage] HD Videocamera advice please...

[Simon Thompson]

Ian Forrester wrote:

If I was buying one now, I would get the Sanyo Xacti HD1010. But I love flash 
media and am not so bothered about the quality of the actual footage.

I also love the 300fps mode.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/05/sanyos-xacti-hd1010-1080i-camcorder-shoots-300fps-slow-mo/

Cheers

Ian Forrester
  




Presumably the resolution is greatly reduced when shooting at 300fps?


Also, it's recording to h.264 video files - the GOP length will affect 
the ability to edit the output.




--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET *
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] erik huggers on open standards

[Simon Thompson]

Tim Dobson wrote:


2 mins of googling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aware_Electronics

Yes so that's the "A-View", the "AW-300" and the "AW-150" subnotebooks 
for starters.





All of which use Aday super486 CPUs.

So these will be x86 compatible



--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research Engineer (Electronics)

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
Kingswood Warren <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] Soundcloud

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:

"*Kingswood innovations*

*Freeview Playback* Due to launch in 2009 - with this you can record a 
whole series with one instruction and, if you want to record two 
programmes that clash, it will find one of the shows on a repeat 
broadcast and record it instead."


A PVR?  Surely not? 

Freeview Playback launched in April 2007... and it has already been 
renamed Freeview+



http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051227




Freeview+ phase 2 is currently on air.  The demo this lady was given was 
the phase 3 functionality - trailer selection.  unfortunately this 
didn't come across in the article.


From phase 3 launch, you'll be able to set a recording for a programme 
when you see a trailer for it on air.



--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
Kingswood Warren

Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer - why the missing TV channel?

[Simon Thompson]

Simon Thompson wrote:






25fps, 1280x720, 16:9 (0.87 megapixels) is what is going to be in
"Freeview HD", the DVB-T2 service.



It's an option being considered.



oops - I misread that - 720p50 is an option in the Ofcom licence 
conditions - not 720p25




--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET *
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*

*E:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[backstage] Open-Source DTV

[Simon Thompson]

At Mashed we ran an end-to-end DVB-T Broadcast chain which comprised:

  1. An SD encoder - taking just about any video file/encoding format
  2. Metadata Generator
  3. Programme Scheduling
  4. Playout
  5. Multiplexing

We're dipping our toe in the water about Open-sourcing our efforts.  We 
have licensing issues with one part - but have ideas for getting round 
it - but were wondering:


  1. Would anyone be interested?
  2. What use cases can you forsee?
  3. What changes would you make?




--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*

*E:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer - why the missing TV channel?

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:


1080i25), or is the compression lower?

Yes.  They are going to squeeze three HD channels into the 30Mb/s.
 


Four, according to the OFCOM plan.  It's based on a report by Zetacast 
which shows large improvements going to occur in MPEG4 coders and 
stat-muxing between now and 2020.


http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/report.pdf




25fps, 1280x720, 16:9 (0.87 megapixels) is what is going to be in
"Freeview HD", the DVB-T2 service.



It's an option being considered.


--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET *
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
A14, Kingswood Warren, Woodland Way,
Tadworth, Surrey, KT20 6NP

*T:* 01737 839818
*E:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[simon]

Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether it
be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.

Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.







On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Richard Lockwood <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>>
>>
>>
> Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
>> facetious?
>>
>
>
> Yes.  I regular consider my freedom.  My freedom to consider, carefully
> think about and, where appropriate amend my views.  My rights to not be
> hectored, badgered and lectured at, at every possible opportunity, by people
> who consider their views (or rather, views that they've taken verbatim from
> a third party) the only possible moral stance, and by people who use
> inflammatory and emotive words such as "evil" in entirely inappropriate
> circumstances.
>
> How about you?
>
> Rich.
>

Re: [backstage] BBC begins DVB-T2 test transmissions in preparation for HD on Freeview

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:

This is great news!

What is the UHF channel number that this test service is being 
broadcast on from the Guildford transmitter?


I'm presuming that this is in 256QAM mode, with about 30Mb/s with a 
few MPEG-4 (part 10) video streams?  Will any of the existing DVB-T 
USB dongles will work in 256QAM mode?


Are the other broadcast parameters now fixed, or will this test 
service be used with varying power levels and error correction levels 
to determine the best possible ones for UK broadcast?


Is the BBC going to do some tests to see if the service is really 
going to work in domestic properties like it did with WHP056?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp056.shtml



Unfortunately DVB-T2 is more complicated than that.  Each service within 
a multiplex can have its own transmission parameters, and there are a 
lot more parameters to choose from.  Additionally, there are two input 
formats (i.e. you don't have to use Transport Stream)


I believe the broadcast uses a single set of parameters with H264 video 
in MPEG2-TS - but will check for you.


Also, I doubt any dongles will work.


Simon


--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET *
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*

Re: [backstage] BBC begins DVB-T2 test transmissions in preparation for HD on Freeview

[Simon Thompson]

David Johnston wrote:

I thought DVB-T2 was still a work-in-progress? Don't think any
consumer boxes support it yet.

(Or I may be horribly out of date.)

-d

2008/6/27 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
  

Anyone had any luck picking this up? I have a HDTV with a Freeview tuner,
but have no idea if this is capable of picking up HD over the air... is it
ATSC? I'm unsure of the specifics.

--Matt




DVB-T2 physical layer specification was ratified yesterday - and was 
on-air this morning (admittedly by the guys who were working on the 
specification).


The RF specification does differ from Freeview (DVB-T), as does the 
physical layer and the signalling - so no, I doubt anyone has hacked it 
yet* and no, it isn't ATSC.




Simon


* although please feel free - the spec will be available on the ETSI 
website, free of charge, soon


--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[backstage] More for Mashed

[Simon Thompson]

Seeing as we've got Arduino, ARM, Microsoft Robotics and Goddard Space 
Flight Centre all turning up to Mashed, we've got you some electronics 
kit to play with. Expect to find capacitors, resistors, op-amps, 74 
series logic, voltage regulators, breadboards, batteries, solder, wire, 
tools, soldering stations for some good honest sparky fun.


It's a bit of a random selection so do feel free to bring your own stuff 
too.


See http://mashed08.backnetwork.com/event/?articleid=31 for more info :-D


We'll also be radiating a DVB-T (aka "Freeview") signal for you guys to 
hack around with.  We've got some USB DVB-T sticks, some software links 
and a talk on how to hack DVB-T and MHEG interactive stuff.


--
----
*Simon Thompson MEng MIET*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

*BBC Future Media and Technology*
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [backstage] Imitation the sincerest form, etc., or how copy and paste is getting out of hand

[simon]

For me, the most significant failure of this is the lack of a twist on the
original they cloned.

 If there was anywhere they had improved on the original, or otherwise made
it their own, they would've gotten away with it.

Now they just look like they lack individuality, imagination and creativity
which for a media organisation is surely less than ideal.

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I saw this a few days ago on JC's Twitter feed.
>
> It's not really 'immitation' is it, it seems to be take-without-asking.
> If I like something that someone else's site does, I code it for myself, but
> I'm a nerd in that respect.
>
> But as the BBC doesn't offer the code for sale and owns the code
> entirely...  I wonder what the legal position is?
>
> 2008/5/16 Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>
>> http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/hrtova-nova-web-stranica-besramni-plagijat-bbccouk/386887.aspx
>>
>> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/05/15/croation-state-broadcaster
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>> please visit
>> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>>  Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Please email me back if you need any more help.
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] Zattoo - live streaming BBC channels

[Simon Cross]

nel of the device when the DJ's seen
> speaking in shot (sat next to the broadcast mic at the desk). Unfortunately
> though the interesting stuff (the hardware!) has always never been in focus so
> I've not been able to identify the kit :( If someone knows someone who knows
> and can ask them, that's also quite acceptable ;)
>  
> We have these things called an SM. Most of the older studios come with them,
> although they are less popular in newer studio builds but you can sometimes
> share with another studio. And some of them react faster than others to
> excessive volume levels judging by the level of the FARSA network this morning
> :) 


-- 
Simon Cross
Principal Client-Side (web) Developer for bbc.co.uk
BBC Future Media and Technology - Internet Group
Broadcast Centre BC4 D4
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
07967 444 304

Re: [backstage] Open Flash

[simon]

Thanks for Aral interview Ian. Very interesting and much appreciated over
here!


On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:08 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Finally I got a chance to put up a video of me interviewing Aral Balkan
> about Open Flash.
>
> Enjoy,
>
> http://blip.tv/file/897470/ - part 1
> http://blip.tv/file/897486 - part 2
>
> Lots more here - http://blip.tv/posts/?topic_name=xtech2008
>
> Ian Forrester
>
> This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable
>
> Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
> Room 1044, BBC Manchester BH, Oxford Road, M60 1SJ
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> work: +44 (0)2080083965
> mob: +44 (0)7711913293
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ST
> Sent: 06 May 2008 16:21
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] Open Flash
>
> Quoting Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Dave Crossland wrote:
> >> I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary
> >> software and stops imposing DRM :-)
> >>
> > And on that day  the devil will skate to work! (Can't remember which
> > programme I heard that quote on).
> >
> > The BBC will pick proprietary solutions even if they are technically
> > inferior to the open standards alternatives, just look at Kontiki,
> > Bittorrent would have worked far better, at least most clients support
> > some level of user controllable throttling, many even support
> scheduling.
> >
> > Andy
> >
>
>
> Kontiki may be inferior in technological terms, but would be vastly
> superior in terms of a Media Lawyer never having seen its name associated
> with intellectual property theft.
>
> --
> ST
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

[backstage] Open Flash

[simon]

Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V
specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332

Interesting, I thought.

Re: [backstage] Business Reasons To Support Gnash

[simon]

"Hum... *only* sound and video? All that content is a pretty big deal"

Jase, you are misquoting me - I didn't say it was a small deal , and
re-reading my email, it didn't carry my point below. (Note to self: it's not
enough just to think about writing something.)

My main aim in listing those 3 points was to say I can't see the point of
faithfully re-creating the Flash player in an open source style when really,
there are only those 3 areas in which it has the drop on JS. This advantage
surely cannot last forever.

Regarding the points you raise, I'm not convinced of the usefulness of
cross-browser clientside storage, I don't hear a lot of users clamouring for
it since the predominant use case is a single browser on a single machine.
Anything else suggests a return to the days of "this site is best viewed in
{{browser}}" so users have to switch browser in the middle of their session.

As for adverts, totally with the "necessary evil" aspect of them. I don't
like them and as long as I'm free to use AdBlock Plus or equivalent, they
can carry on making them and paying for my favourite sites. I'm aware of the
parasitic nature of this browsing mode, so every once in a while I disable
the AdBlock and randomly click on a few ads.

S.





On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Jason Cartwright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>- Hum... *only* sound and video? All that content is a pretty big
>deal.
>- Cross-browser client-side storage? Sure, you can do it in JS,
>sometimes, using one of many APIs, but flash's shared object could make a
>good fallback (I've not tried this though).
>- Don't most JS uploaders will use a (hidden? 1px by 1px?) flash
>file in the page to do the heavy lifting (again, I've not tried this)? 
> Seems
>Flickr's does.
>- Pretty much all display advertising on the web is done in Flash
>(where rather a lot of money is spent, apparently)
>
> J
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:23 PM, simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Once you remove games, I believe there are only 3 things Flash player
> > has that cannot be recreated with html + css + javascript:
> >
> > 1. binary socket (Audio, Video)
> > 2.  XML socket
> > 3. no page refresh file upload with user feedback events (% loaded etc)
> >
> > I'm hoping someone can remove item 3 for me with a link to some fancy JS
> > uploader
> >
> > S.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Adam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > Playing whack-a-mole with corporate and device use cases that the
> > > > legal or technological implications of Flash being proprietary break
> > > > misses the forest for the trees. These are all just instances of the
> > > > freedom of software users being compromised.
> > > >
> > > > That said, on other lists I've seen people argue that Gnash is
> > > > counter-productive precisely because it supports something that
> > > isn't
> > > > an open standard. This would be a reasonable argument if there was
> > > an
> > > > open standard to support, but there really isn't (SVG+JavaScript or
> > > > DHTML+AJAX are not substitutes). So I agree that if the BBC could
> > > > provide such a standard that would be really positive.
> > > The BBC have already announced that they are working on a standard
> > > with
> > > a number of other companies.
> > > http://www.p2p-next.org/
> > > -
> > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
> > > please visit
> > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> > >  Unofficial list archive:
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jason Cartwright
> Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +44(0)2070313161
>
> www.jasoncartwright.com
> +44(0)7976500729

Re: [backstage] Business Reasons To Support Gnash

[simon]

Once you remove games, I believe there are only 3 things Flash player has
that cannot be recreated with html + css + javascript:

1. binary socket (Audio, Video)
2.  XML socket
3. no page refresh file upload with user feedback events (% loaded etc)

I'm hoping someone can remove item 3 for me with a link to some fancy JS
uploader

S.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Adam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Playing whack-a-mole with corporate and device use cases that the
> > legal or technological implications of Flash being proprietary break
> > misses the forest for the trees. These are all just instances of the
> > freedom of software users being compromised.
> >
> > That said, on other lists I've seen people argue that Gnash is
> > counter-productive precisely because it supports something that isn't
> > an open standard. This would be a reasonable argument if there was an
> > open standard to support, but there really isn't (SVG+JavaScript or
> > DHTML+AJAX are not substitutes). So I agree that if the BBC could
> > provide such a standard that would be really positive.
> The BBC have already announced that they are working on a standard with
> a number of other companies.
> http://www.p2p-next.org/
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?

[simon]

On the back of Tim's suggestions about broadening the scope wider than just
feeds,  would it ever be possible to register for a dev account like
youtube, delicious etc and get greater access to data in a way that tech
bods at the BBC could 'control' more?

S.



On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Tim Dobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Ian Forrester wrote:
> > I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would
> love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV
>
> After Barcamp I think there are a few ideas in a more generally
> direction, not just about feeds and API's...
>
> > Anything more?
>
> - Free Software Orientated Stuff
> - Open Standards Orientated Stuff
> - Freely Licenced Stuff
> - Stuff that works Up North
> - Stuff that I need Vista + Digital Restrictions Management(DRM) to use
>
> See if you can spot the one I put in to test whether you were awake :P
>
> Bet you could see those coming ;)
>
> --
> www.blog.tdobson.net
> 
> If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
> still has one object.
> If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
> has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?

[simon]

Maybe it's implicit in your list but it'd be great if there could be some
kind of image per item in the feed. I'm thinking mostly of iPlayer schedule
and having some kind of still from each show.

Call me superficial but I think an rss feed is a much more attractive
prospect to work with when you can use it to sprinkle a bit of imagery over
your page/ flash app/ whatever.

I realise rights, server load etc might be an issue here though of course.

S.



On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would
> love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV
>
> I got most of the obvious stuff like,
>
> - A 31 day schedule in XML
> - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability
> - Direct links to iplayer programmes
> - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes
> - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer
> - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry
> - The Programme Catalogue! :)
> - A reference page or service for all programmes (/programmes in XML)
> - XMPP pub/sub messages for upcoming programmes
> - keywords
>
> Anything more?
>
> Ian Forrester
>
> This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable
>
> Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
> BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> work: +44 (0)2080083965
> mob: +44 (0)7711913293
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash

[simon]

 This is NOT to replace HTTP delivery in order to enforce DRM in the flash
> player.

It is! :-)

No, it isn't. But your off-key one-note tune has already taken up too much
of my time.

Your failure to acknowledge the social problem of DRM - the BBC
acknowledges DRM but whines "we can't help it, its not our fault" -
and your lack of shame at being called on promoting it marks you out
as non-serious in my opinion.

Ok, you've convinced me that...

...you can't admit you made a mistake. And that debate to you is everyone
saying "yes, you know what Dave? You're absolutely right" whenever you
speak.

If I don't appear to believe that DRM is a cause of society's problems as
you would appear to wish me to, then it's fine that you don't think I'm
serious, sometimes I don't take myself seriously either. Perhaps there's a
lesson there?

You can reply to this if you like, but from this moment on, I have
prioritsed reading your mail behind hacking my arm off with a rusty saw.

Good luck with the revolution.

S.




On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 01/03/2008, simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > This is NOT to replace HTTP delivery in order to enforce DRM in the
> flash
> > player.
>
> It is! :-)
>
> > As far as the flash player goes, this FMS 3 requirement is only
> > about streaming MP4 container (h264/aac) into the flash player as
> detailed
> > in the bullet points of this article:
> >
> http://www.kaourantin.net/2007/08/what-just-happened-to-video-on-web_20.html
>
> The blog post of an Adobe employee is unlikely to make explicit the
> way the DRM in FMS is going to play out. Adobe does not want to raise
> awareness of its DRM capabilities.
>
> > You will still be able to use progressive download for MP4 and flv video
> > files into flash. In fact, stuff I've made does it every day.
>
> Today you can't use progressive download for the iPlayer Flash video,
> but the DRM is not _yet_ (afaik) turned on for iPlayer. Will it be
> turned on?
>
> > Of course, Adobe may turn off HTTP support by releasing a version of the
> > Flash Player that requires a handshake with their proprietary server
> before
> > it delivers video, but I'm sure they realise that would be incredibly
> stupid
> > as the ubiquity of the flash player is in a large part down to the low
> > barrier it has on delivering video content.
>
> I agree that Adobe is unlikely to remove the HTTP functionality, but
> that doesn't mean that the BBC and other FMS users will make use of
> that functionality - the BBC already doesn't - and Adobe are already
> providing them with DRM features that they are not yet using.
>
> > Adobe Media player article is, clearly, correct since it is written by
> > people who know about the product they're talking about.
> > So beef about that all you like.
>
> The phrase,
>
> > > protected download-and-play
>
> sounds like classic DRM to me.
>
> > > Adobe's rich history of document protection technology
>
> AKA: Adobe's on going attempts at DRM
>
> > > Adobe Media Player plans to offer
> > > content publishers a range of protection options, including streaming
> > > encryption, content integrity protection and identity-based
> > > protection.
>
> "Streaming encryption" is about "replacing HTTP delivery in order to
> enforce DRM in the flash player."
>
> > But don't spread misinformation that supports your insistence on
> focussing
> > on what flash player isn't, rather than what flash player is.
> > In fact, I think you can replace "flash player" in the above sentence
> with
> > almost any tech for some of the conversations on this list.
> >
> > I make stuff people use. I don't sit around waiting for other folks to
> make
> > stuff so I can tell them why they're wrong to make it that way and this
> kind
> > of grandstanding drives me nuts
>
> Your failure to acknowledge the social problem of DRM - the BBC
> acknowledges DRM but whines "we can't help it, its not our fault" -
> and your lack of shame at being called on promoting it marks you out
> as non-serious in my opinion.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dave
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash

[simon]

"When other folk avoid the ethical aspects of their profession by
focusing on technical problem-solving and ignore the social problems
their solutions create for people drives me nuts"

Do you mean the "social problems" as detailed as a result of the technical
architecture described in the well-researched article you presented here on
this thread?

It's almost as if they didn't know what they were talking about, but that
can't be right, can it?

Your failure to acknowledge the incorrectness of that article and your lack
of shame at being called on presenting such a fabrication as truth merely to
suit your ends marks you out as non-serious in my opinion.

S.



On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 01/03/2008, simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I make stuff people use. I don't sit around waiting for other folks to
> make
> > stuff so I can tell them why they're wrong to make it that way and this
> kind
> > of grandstanding drives me nuts
>
> When other folk avoid the ethical aspects of their profession by
> focusing on technical problem-solving and ignore the social problems
> their solutions create for people drives me nuts :-)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dave
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash

[simon]

"Now Adobe, which controls Flash and Flash Video, is trying to change
 that with the introduction of DRM restrictions in version 9 of its
 Flash Player and version 3 of its Flash Media Server software"

That article is as predictable as it is ill-informed. In with the
head-stomping first, worry about the details later.

This is NOT to replace HTTP delivery in order to enforce DRM in the flash
player. As far as the flash player goes, this FMS 3 requirement is only
about streaming MP4 container (h264/aac) into the flash player as detailed
in the bullet points of this article:
http://www.kaourantin.net/2007/08/what-just-happened-to-video-on-web_20.html

You will still be able to use progressive download for MP4 and flv video
files into flash. In fact, stuff I've made does it every day.

Of course, Adobe may turn off HTTP support by releasing a version of the
Flash Player that requires a handshake with their proprietary server before
it delivers video, but I'm sure they realise that would be incredibly stupid
as the ubiquity of the flash player is in a large part down to the low
barrier it has on delivering video content.

Adobe Media player article is, clearly, correct since it is written by
people who know about the product they're talking about.

So beef about that all you like.

But don't spread misinformation that supports your insistence on focussing
on what flash player isn't, rather than what flash player is.

In fact, I think you can replace "flash player" in the above sentence with
almost any tech for some of the conversations on this list.

I make stuff people use. I don't sit around waiting for other folks to make
stuff so I can tell them why they're wrong to make it that way and this kind
of grandstanding drives me nuts

Simon out.














On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200704/041607AMP.html
>
> 
> For content publishers, Adobe Media Player enables better ways to
> deliver, monetize, brand, track and protect video content. It provides
> an array of video delivery options for high-quality online and offline
> playback, including on-demand streaming, live streaming, progressive
> download, and protected download-and-play. The Adobe Media Player
> enables a wider selection of monetization and branding options
> including viewer-centric dynamic advertising and the ability to
> customize the look and feel of the player on the fly to match the
> brand or theme of the currently playing content.
>
> Advanced Analytics and Content Protection
> The technology provides content publishers a standardized toolbox to
> deploy a variety of innovative new advertising formats, and to compile
> permission-based analytics data, both online and offline, to better
> understand their audiences. Building on Adobe's rich history of
> document protection technology, Adobe Media Player plans to offer
> content publishers a range of protection options, including streaming
> encryption, content integrity protection and identity-based
> protection.
>
> 
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Iain Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I think this is blurring the line between what constitutes DRM and
> >  what constitutes a proprietary streaming protocol. The article doesn't
> >  really go into any technical detail about what they're referring to,
> >  but I take it they're referring to RTMP. This isn't DRM as the files
> >  inside the protocol are the same video formats that would be streamed
> >  over the web. DRM tends to be applied to the files directly.
> >
> >  To assert that RTMP is a DRM scheme would imply that it's primary
> >  purpose is to lock out unauthorised users. From what I gather, this
> >  isn't its primary purpose at all - it's just supposed to make
> >  streaming objects over the web to flash more flexible and efficient.
> >  From what I've read of the protocol written up in OS Flash, it's
> >  pretty obtuse but there doesn't seem to be any great effort made in it
> >  to lock out unauthorised users.
> >
> >  Therefore RTMP is not DRM and that article is reactionary guff.
> >
> >  Iain
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  > :-)
> >  >
> >  >  -- Forwarded message --
> >  >  From: John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  >  Date: 29 Feb 2008 03:31
> >  >  Subject: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
> >  >  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008

Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds

[simon]

don't know if this has already been discussed here, but:
http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/site/Home

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Alia Sheikh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> I never said anything about being unhappy with open standards, please do
> not implicitly misquote me like that:)
>
> What I said was that as far as possible things should be open but that
> that should not be the only value judgement that is made.  I also said
> positive and fluffy things about how nice it would be if everyone could
> access everything and that that was ideally how things should be.  I
> don't think the BBC *have* said
>
> "we believe Adobe's software is what everyone should use so we only
> permit their users access to our content".
>
> and I don't think that is what I am defending.  I am defending the right
> to investigate whether that particular bit of software is useful.  As I
> would (and have in the past) for open source software.
>
> I think that it woud have been good to have had a discussion on what Air
> can and can't do.  It would have been fantastic to have had a discussion
> about open source alternatives that can do the same job or a better
> job.  It would have been useful to talk about things that aren't the
> same but a bit like it or find out about some open source projects that
> haven't produced anything useful so far but that might be good to keep
> an eye out for.  It would have been interesting to know whether, if a
> piece of content was made available via Air or via something more open,
> what people's opinions would be about who would use which and why.  It
> would be interesting to know what people like the osflash.org guys think
> of all this (I don't know if any of you are on this list?).
>
> This is not a forum that exists simply for the purpose of telling the
> BBC that it is Wrong.
>
> It would have been good to talk.
>
> Alia
>
>
> Andy wrote:
> > On 26/02/2008, Alia Sheikh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Now this is a bit hairy - would you be happier if the BBC required that
> >>  the public could use only non-proprietary software to access any of
> its
> >>  work?
> >>
> >
> > I doubt that it what Dave is saying.
> > It should make it's content available via a standard way (see:
> > http://www.ietf.org , http://www.w3c.org , http://www.iso.org ).
> > That way it can be viewed in both proprietary and Open Source
> > software. See everyone's happy.
> >
> > And if you are unhappy using Open Standards then you can't use HTTP,
> > or TCP/IP for that matter so how are you going to access the BBC
> > website in the first place?
> >
> >
> >>  It feels uncomfortably like you're making a moral judgement about
> >>  the nature of 'good' and 'bad' software and asking the BBC to enforce
> >>  this.
> >>
> >
> > No one is asking the BBC to enforce ANYTHING. The entire opposite, we
> > are asking the BBC to allow *any* software to be used.
> >
> >
> >>  I wouldn't be
> >>  happy deciding what people should care about and enforcing it.
> >>
> >
> > That's what the BBC is doing and you have been defending. It is saying
> > "we believe Adobe's software is what everyone should use so we only
> > permit their users access to our content".
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Open source video streaming & browser based video client

[simon]

Great. Also, my reaction to Adobe claiming only their Flash Media Server
would stream MP4's into the flash player was 'that sounds like a challenge
to me' :)

If you do crack it, I'd be interested to know how you did since, like I say,
it's one of those things I mean to find out but haven't got around to yet.

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > If you know javascript, how about this one? Seems to do what you need:
> > http://flowplayer.org/player/index.html
>
> This definitely looks interesting!  Thanks
>
> Dan
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
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>

Re: [backstage] Open source video streaming & browser based video client

[simon]

nuts, I forgot to mention this article from Adobe explaining more about
what's available for video in the latest player version:

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/flvplayback_fplayer9u3.html

page 3 mentions SMIL capability.


On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 2:48 PM, simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you know javascript, how about this one? Seems to do what you need:
> http://flowplayer.org/player/index.html
>
> You would just point it at your SMIL file.
>
> Just to remind you though, the very latest Flash player is the only one
> that supports h264/aac so your users would need to have that.
>
> Lastly, because I've been looking at flash video streaming and,
> seperately, python, I also found rtmpy which "is a 
> Twisted<http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/>protocol implementing Adobe's Real 
> Time Messaging Protocol (
> RTMP <http://rtmpy.org/wiki/RTMP>), used for full-duplex real-time
> communication with applications running inside the Flash 
> Player<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Player>
> ." it says here: http://rtmpy.org/
>
> I cannot now source the link but sometime after I sent my first reply I
> remembered seeing something from Adobe which claimed that only their
> proprietary Flash Media Server would stream MPEG4 into flash.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thank you for the replies.
> >
> > Flash and MPG4 seem like a good combination.  I'm pretty sure I can
> > already
> > stream MPEG4 from my Helix server too.
> >
> > The trouble now is that I know server side tech very well but have no
> > idea when
> > it comes to client side (Flash)!  Browsing around it seems there are a
> > number of
> > flash player scripts (are they called scripts?) already out there.  Does
> > anyone
> > know one that will do MPEG4 & SMIL without me having to learn Flash and
> > re-invent the wheel?  :-)
> >
> > Thanks again
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On 17/02/2008 22:55, simon was seen to type:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Flash appears to say yes to SMIL:
> > >
> > >
> > http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=0589.html
> > > <
> > http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=0589.html
> > >
> > >
> > > though flash has caused me problems by only implementing limited
> > subsets
> > > of other standard formats  (eg limited html tags in flash textareas)
> > so
> > > I wouldn't like to say for sure the flash's understanding of SMIL
> > would
> > > do what you want. I've never used SMIL + flash.
> > >
> > > And the best bet I think for an open source flash streaming server for
> > > flv video format is still currently Red5 which hasn't made a 1.0version
> > > yet: http://osflash.org/red5
> > >
> > > If you use MP4 container with h264/aac as your flash video format
> > (from
> > > memory: player 9,0,115,0 onwards), you may have more options for your
> > > server, it's on my list to check this but so far I haven't had time.
> > >
> > > S.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 17, 2008 10:18 PM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Apologies if this is slightly off topic but I have been googling
> > on
> > > and off
> > > since last year, found nothing and you lot are the best people I
> > > know to ask!
> > >
> > > I'm looking for an open source video streaming server & browser
> > > based video
> > > client for the video finish of a charity marathon I run.
> > >
> > > I'm already using Helix Server for streaming the video although I
> > > could change
> > > that if required.  I'm using Real video for the stream and I guess
> > > it's the
> > > having to ask users to download and install Real Player that's
> > > harsh. While Real
> > > is very good at simultaneous multi-bitrate streaming it's anything
> > > but open and
> > > I know plenty of people that refuse to install Real Player not to
> > > mention to
&

Re: [backstage] Open source video streaming & browser based video client

[simon]

If you know javascript, how about this one? Seems to do what you need:
http://flowplayer.org/player/index.html

You would just point it at your SMIL file.

Just to remind you though, the very latest Flash player is the only one that
supports h264/aac so your users would need to have that.

Lastly, because I've been looking at flash video streaming and, seperately,
python, I also found rtmpy which "is a
Twisted<http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/>protocol implementing Adobe's
Real Time Messaging Protocol (
RTMP <http://rtmpy.org/wiki/RTMP>), used for full-duplex real-time
communication with applications running inside the Flash
Player<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Player>
." it says here: http://rtmpy.org/

I cannot now source the link but sometime after I sent my first reply I
remembered seeing something from Adobe which claimed that only their
proprietary Flash Media Server would stream MPEG4 into flash.











On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Thank you for the replies.
>
> Flash and MPG4 seem like a good combination.  I'm pretty sure I can
> already
> stream MPEG4 from my Helix server too.
>
> The trouble now is that I know server side tech very well but have no idea
> when
> it comes to client side (Flash)!  Browsing around it seems there are a
> number of
> flash player scripts (are they called scripts?) already out there.  Does
> anyone
> know one that will do MPEG4 & SMIL without me having to learn Flash and
> re-invent the wheel?  :-)
>
> Thanks again
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 17/02/2008 22:55, simon was seen to type:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Flash appears to say yes to SMIL:
> >
> >
> http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=0589.html
> > <
> http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=0589.html
> >
> >
> > though flash has caused me problems by only implementing limited subsets
> > of other standard formats  (eg limited html tags in flash textareas) so
> > I wouldn't like to say for sure the flash's understanding of SMIL would
> > do what you want. I've never used SMIL + flash.
> >
> > And the best bet I think for an open source flash streaming server for
> > flv video format is still currently Red5 which hasn't made a 1.0 version
> > yet: http://osflash.org/red5
> >
> > If you use MP4 container with h264/aac as your flash video format (from
> > memory: player 9,0,115,0 onwards), you may have more options for your
> > server, it's on my list to check this but so far I haven't had time.
> >
> > S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 17, 2008 10:18 PM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Apologies if this is slightly off topic but I have been googling on
> > and off
> > since last year, found nothing and you lot are the best people I
> > know to ask!
> >
> > I'm looking for an open source video streaming server & browser
> > based video
> > client for the video finish of a charity marathon I run.
> >
> > I'm already using Helix Server for streaming the video although I
> > could change
> > that if required.  I'm using Real video for the stream and I guess
> > it's the
> > having to ask users to download and install Real Player that's
> > harsh. While Real
> > is very good at simultaneous multi-bitrate streaming it's anything
> > but open and
> > I know plenty of people that refuse to install Real Player not to
> > mention to
> > vulnerabilities!
> >
> > It would be great to have the video window in the browser so the
> > user didn't
> > have to download anything (e.g. VLC) but I think that just leaves
> > Flash(!?)
> > which is also not open (although people are at least used to video
> > in Flash).
> >
> > The BIG requirement though is that the client can
> > understand/replicate SMIL
> > information as the video is stored on the server as a single 1GB
> > file and
> > different users are streamed different 20 second clips based on the
> > time they
> > went over the finish line. Can Flash even do that?
> >
> > Any help appreciated.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > P.S. I'm using the term Open Source as a indi

Re: [backstage] Open source video streaming & browser based video client

[simon]

Hello,

Flash appears to say yes to SMIL:

http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=0589.html

though flash has caused me problems by only implementing limited subsets of
other standard formats  (eg limited html tags in flash textareas) so I
wouldn't like to say for sure the flash's understanding of SMIL would do
what you want. I've never used SMIL + flash.

And the best bet I think for an open source flash streaming server for flv
video format is still currently Red5 which hasn't made a 1.0 version yet:
http://osflash.org/red5

If you use MP4 container with h264/aac as your flash video format (from
memory: player 9,0,115,0 onwards), you may have more options for your
server, it's on my list to check this but so far I haven't had time.

S.







On Feb 17, 2008 10:18 PM, Dogsbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Apologies if this is slightly off topic but I have been googling on and
> off
> since last year, found nothing and you lot are the best people I know to
> ask!
>
> I'm looking for an open source video streaming server & browser based
> video
> client for the video finish of a charity marathon I run.
>
> I'm already using Helix Server for streaming the video although I could
> change
> that if required.  I'm using Real video for the stream and I guess it's
> the
> having to ask users to download and install Real Player that's harsh.
> While Real
> is very good at simultaneous multi-bitrate streaming it's anything but
> open and
> I know plenty of people that refuse to install Real Player not to mention
> to
> vulnerabilities!
>
> It would be great to have the video window in the browser so the user
> didn't
> have to download anything (e.g. VLC) but I think that just leaves
> Flash(!?)
> which is also not open (although people are at least used to video in
> Flash).
>
> The BIG requirement though is that the client can understand/replicate
> SMIL
> information as the video is stored on the server as a single 1GB file and
> different users are streamed different 20 second clips based on the time
> they
> went over the finish line. Can Flash even do that?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Dan
>
> P.S. I'm using the term Open Source as a indication of the ideal, I'm a
> fan of
> open source so I would like to use it with free software being the next
> choice
> but as this is a charity marathon we have no money to throw at commercial
> software.
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Greater access to news data

[simon]

Could you use something like python's Beautiful Soup library?
http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

It'll scrape the page and you can drill down to isolate the main content
block.

It's what I used to make a script that parses rss feeds, scrapes the stories
from the sites then clusters the stories based on the story, rather than the
rss feed, content.

You can see the pre-alpha result, it's very much a work in progress
(especially the UI): www.codemeup.com

Whilst this example only displays the rss title, the script has gone to the
actual page and pulled out the content for word frequency analysis.

hope that's useful.

S.



On Feb 17, 2008 9:26 AM, Richard Askew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello everyone, firs time poster here!
>
> I wondered if you could help me. I am currently in my final year of
> University and I am currently drawing up ideas for my dissertation. I am
> looking to do some work with the BBC news feeds. At the moment I can receive
> the feeds and get the headline and brief description of the story. Is there
> a way in which I could go on and retrieve the whole news story for that
> particular feed so it can be presented in an application?
>
> Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Richard Askew
>
> *
> To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to
> http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html
>
> *
>

Re: [backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype

[Simon Cross]

Yeah keep yours up Chris - its nice, more commercially focused than what we
can do, and is already giving us ideas about other data sources we can
scour.

Nice work fella.

S


On 10/1/08 19:26, "Chris Riley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks, I might just keep it going then!
> Chris
> 
> On 10/01/2008, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 10/01/2008, Chris Riley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> This is very similar to something I've already done
>>> http://cgriley.com/nowplaying/  It isn't as polished as the one you're
>>> producing, and since you are producing one I'll probably retire mine
>>> in a few weeks!
>> 
>> I like yours too and it would be a shame to remove it :-)
>> 
>> You've already linked to Amazon to "buy the CD now" similar to what I
>> suggested for Simon Cross.
>> 
>> Rather than spreading FUD about the non-commercial restriction, I feel
>> I ought to explain what I mean there. I'll do that in a different
>> thread, though :-)
>> 
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> (Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers past or present)
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
>> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>> Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>> 
> -
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Re: [backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype

[Simon Cross]

Hi Dave,

Good comments.

We've just updated it so it now works for Radio 1, Radio 2, 6Music and
1Xtra.

Nice idea about generating a Flash from HTML version. Will look into.

We're doing some more work around 'what happens when nothing is playing'. At
present we have 3 modes - playing (we know the song), paused (song began
more than 4 mins ago so we assume its over) and 'stopped' (last song was
started more than 10 mins ago - so assume bad data, or no VCS data.

We'll look at display modes for each of those - yeah, perhaps displaying
previous tracks information etc...

We're enjoying the positive response to the prototype both in and out of the
Beeb.

S


On 10/1/08 16:57, "Dave Crossland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 09/01/2008, Simon Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> Its around visualizing now playing information by pulling in data from
>> across the web, and lives at... http://www.simoncross.com/music/radio1/
> 
> Very cool!
> 
>> The plan for this is to eventually build a flash version which is
>> full-screenable to provide a visual companion while listening in the office,
>> or on the web etc.
> 
> With the Ming libraries (which are developed as part of the GNU Gnash
> project) it might be possible to generate the Flash version from the
> web standards version, keeping feature parity and not discriminating
> against users for whom the Flash version in inaccessible for some
> reason.
> 
>> At the moment, we've just got as far as last.fm, flickr and the webcam, but
>> its a start!
>> 
>> Comments welcome!
> 
> Please consider:
> 
> * publishing the source code of the serverside component under a free
> software license so we are free to learn how it works to build our own
> prototypes and perhaps even contribute features to this project
> 
> * changing the way it handles nothing being played now, from "Now
> Playing: More songs coming soon... Nothing playing right now" and no
> more to "Now Playing: Nothing playing right now. Previous track was
> ..." and all the information about the last played track.
> 
> * adding links to venue sites for the event items (if you can; non
> commercial restrictions may prohibit this?)
> 
> * adding links to ticket sites for the event items (even more likely
> to die thanks to the non commercial restrictions...)
> 
> * linking the Top 10 tracks to YouTube queries of those strings (or is
> that commercial too?)

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[backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype

[Simon Cross]

Hello Backstage faithful,

Its a rarity on this list ;-) but heres a kinda product (or at least and
idea) announcement

We're working on a new 10% time project over here at FM&T Audio and Music -
and we thought we'd give you guys a super sneak preview. Theres a few of us
involved here, including Yasser Rashid, Cathy Bartlet and Ramon Dodd.

Its around visualizing now playing information by pulling in data from
across the web, and lives at... http://www.simoncross.com/music/radio1/ -
its temporarily on a personal server as our infrastructure here at the BBC
doesn't currently allow us to do this kind of thing :-(

The plan for this is to eventually build a flash version which is
full-screenable to provide a visual companion while listening in the office,
or on the web etc.

Future data sources we hope to build on include Musicbrainz, Wikipedia,
YouTube, song lyrics,Yahoo Music and loads more. At the moment, we've just
got as far as last.fm, flickr and the webcam, but its a start!

Comments welcome!

S

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[backstage] Radio Labs plug

[Simon Cross]

Hi All, 
 
Not sure if you'd see this, but some of you might be interested
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/
 
Here at FM&T A&M, we've got our own departmental Blog where we write
about the stuff we're working on, both for public release (betas etc)
and as internal RnD projects.
 
The big news this week is our recent RnD Live Events project, and also
the launch of our podcast directory for iPhones/iPod Touch's.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/bbc_podcasts_on_the_iphone_
and.shtml
 
Take a read and why not subscribe - its gonne be fun
 
S

[backstage] RE: [backstage-developer] Sky News 'Dev Garage' competition

[Simon Cobb]

"Anyone else think that they're pulling a fast one? £10K for ten new features 
on their website plus loads of other products that they then own the copyright 
to?"

You can call me a dreamer but it might not be that cynical. 

In my opinion, the competition organisers must know any developer able to 
create a cross-platform original slant on RSS consumption would NOT then sell 
it out to Sky for a grand. It would cost the developer that much in manhours 
spent on the project. (Estimated at 4 days @ 250/day). Surely having gone to 
the trouble of creating this thing, the developer would hawk it themselves and 
retain the intellectual property rights and the admiration of their peers.

Perhaps Sky are just hoping for nuggets of ideas they can expand in-house?






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Dillon
Sent: 02 November 2007 11:25
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage-developer] Sky News 'Dev Garage' competition

I know this is not strictly about the BBC products, but I think developers on 
the list would probably be interested.

Sky are ofering a ten £1k prizes to:

"Develop an original standalone application, using Sky News RRS feeds (provided 
by us) of headlines, or pictures, or video (or a combination), which carries 
Sky News beyond its home environment (www.sky.com/news ) . 
  The application should run in 3rd party environments, including websites 
and/or desktops "

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1291123,00.html

Check out the T&Cs:

"All Finalists agree that the copyright (if any) and all other rights title and 
interest in and in respect of their Contribution shall vest in and are hereby 
assigned to Sky (and this assignment shall operate to the extent necessary as a 
present assignment of future copyright) and that Sky shall have the unfettered 
right to deal with a Finalist's Contribution or any part of it in any way that 
it thinks fit."

So even if you don't win they still get to keep the copyright on your work? 
Anyone else think that they're pulling a fast one? £10K for ten new features on 
their website plus loads of other products that they then own the copyright to?


Seán

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RE: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers encoders and converters

[Simon Cobb]

riva converts to flv on the desktop if you don't have flash video
encoder/ sorenson: http://www.rivavx.com/?encoder
 
it's windows tho so if you're using an alternative OS it's not for you.
 
there's also ffmpeg: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/faq.html
 
mac apps I don't know about, sorry for you if that's your OS, heh.
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden
Sent: 01 November 2007 09:30
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers
encoders and converters


It's a shame that there's so little emphasis on converting to flv format
- everything I see is about converting from or playing them (I'm
involved with a website which currently embeds video in Real,  Windows
Media or occassionally QuickTime and MPEGs due to historical reasons,
and I'm wondering about a Flash video trial using the FLV player)
 
HeyWatch looks interesting, but I'd rather have something on my desktop!




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Cartwright
Sent: 01 November 2007 09:14
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers
encoders and converters


Well, the system doing the calls to HeyWatch is proprietary, and
firewalled (written in ASP.net, with a MySQL backend). But the output is
listed here...
http://play.tm/storytype/videos 

Using the JW FLV player...
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=JW_FLV_Player

Which is also used for YouTube-style embedding...

http://jasoncartwright.com/blog/entry/2007/6/flash_video_embedding

Looking forward to H.264 in the mainstream flash player - then
it'll be hello HD (depending on bandwidth and HD source material, both
of which are plentiful). 

J


On 01/11/2007, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

oo-er have we strayed onto the wrong list here? this
conversation seems drm free, heh
 
I'd like to ask for the link (if you can supply it) to
see what you've developed using this HeyWatch ingest/output please
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Cartwright
Sent: 01 November 2007 08:38
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video
rippers encoders and converters



I can highly recommend HeyWatch (from that list). An
outstanding service, with an excellent API. I've got it hooked up with a
CMS encoding hundreds of videos a month.

J


On 01/11/2007, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

there's a couple I hadn't heard of on here
 

http://lifehacker.com/software/lifehacker-top-10/top-10-free-video-rippe
rs-encoders-and-converters-316478.php 
 
 
 




-- 
Jason Cartwright
Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+44(0)2070313161 




-- 
Jason Cartwright
Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+44(0)2070313161 

RE: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers encoders and converters

[Simon Cobb]

oo-er have we strayed onto the wrong list here? this conversation seems
drm free, heh
 
I'd like to ask for the link (if you can supply it) to see what you've
developed using this HeyWatch ingest/output please
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Cartwright
Sent: 01 November 2007 08:38
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers
encoders and converters


I can highly recommend HeyWatch (from that list). An outstanding
service, with an excellent API. I've got it hooked up with a CMS
encoding hundreds of videos a month.

J


On 01/11/2007, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

there's a couple I hadn't heard of on here
 

http://lifehacker.com/software/lifehacker-top-10/top-10-free-video-rippe
rs-encoders-and-converters-316478.php 
 
 
 




-- 
Jason Cartwright
Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+44(0)2070313161 

[backstage] Lifehacker's Top Ten free video rippers encoders and converters

[Simon Cobb]

there's a couple I hadn't heard of on here
 
http://lifehacker.com/software/lifehacker-top-10/top-10-free-video-rippe
rs-encoders-and-converters-316478.php
 
 
 

RE: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview

[Simon Cobb]

I did mean that. Was looking in the wrong place for  it. Thanks.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Stone
Sent: 31 October 2007 13:47
To: Jeremy Stone; backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview


Sorry I mean this
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,2200816,00.html



From: Jeremy Stone 
Sent: 31 October 2007 13:47
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview


Do you mean this ?
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Cobb
Sent: 31 October 2007 13:33
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview


"I'm unsure how this bussiness model would translate to other media though."
 
In an article that seems only available in the 'dead tree' edition of last 
Sunday's Observer, and thus unreferenceable here, some American chap was 
talking about how live sport will only go up in terms of the rights revenue 
required to host it on your media outlet.
 
It's the perfect commercial media product that removes all incentive to copy it 
and redistribute it.
 
Once it is available to be transcribed to a medium that can be replicated and 
passed around it's lost its value as everyone who was interested was either 
there or already knows how it turned out. All that's left is to mine the 
highlights and bloopers to serve ahead of the next game for which you can 
charge sponsors and consumers anew. 
 
In my view (and, I think, the American chap's), that's the model to follow to 
monetise content. Identify off-schedule content that 'expires' once it has been 
consumed.
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vijay chopra
Sent: 31 October 2007 12:46
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview




On 31/10/2007, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

FWIW I think it's a more powerful argument to state that the value of
a recording per-se is now tending towards zero, digital tech having 
removed scarcity from much of the value chain.

The business models which recognise this will thrive in the long term.

 
Bingo! Personally I can see a time when bands will make most of their money 
from performances and associated merchandising with recordings heading towards 
either a price of £free, or a Radioheadesque "pay what you want". Unless, of 
course, you want the physical CD (or Vinyl, as it seems to be making a 
comeback) with bonus extra track and cover art* etc. For which you'll have to 
pay a premium. 
 
I'm unsure how this bussiness model would translate to other media though.

*Why did good cover art die out with vinyl anyway?


 

RE: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview

[Simon Cobb]

"I'm unsure how this bussiness model would translate to other media though."
 
In an article that seems only available in the 'dead tree' edition of last 
Sunday's Observer, and thus unreferenceable here, some American chap was 
talking about how live sport will only go up in terms of the rights revenue 
required to host it on your media outlet.
 
It's the perfect commercial media product that removes all incentive to copy it 
and redistribute it.
 
Once it is available to be transcribed to a medium that can be replicated and 
passed around it's lost its value as everyone who was interested was either 
there or already knows how it turned out. All that's left is to mine the 
highlights and bloopers to serve ahead of the next game for which you can 
charge sponsors and consumers anew. 
 
In my view (and, I think, the American chap's), that's the model to follow to 
monetise content. Identify off-schedule content that 'expires' once it has been 
consumed.
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vijay chopra
Sent: 31 October 2007 12:46
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Ashley Highfield on iPlayer - 26min Interview




On 31/10/2007, Tom Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

FWIW I think it's a more powerful argument to state that the value of
a recording per-se is now tending towards zero, digital tech having 
removed scarcity from much of the value chain.

The business models which recognise this will thrive in the long term.

 
Bingo! Personally I can see a time when bands will make most of their money 
from performances and associated merchandising with recordings heading towards 
either a price of £free, or a Radioheadesque "pay what you want". Unless, of 
course, you want the physical CD (or Vinyl, as it seems to be making a 
comeback) with bonus extra track and cover art* etc. For which you'll have to 
pay a premium. 
 
I'm unsure how this bussiness model would translate to other media though.

*Why did good cover art die out with vinyl anyway?


 

RE: [backstage] flash accessibility

[Simon Cobb]

Hello Jonathan,

Adam's beaten me to it with his email below.

I think it looks good too but since it's a while til it's technically viable 
and even once it is, it then has to gain traction with designers I feel we'll 
be using flash as the de facto standard for video for a long while yet.

Adam, H.264 support is out now if you wish to see it: 
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/hd_video_flash_player.html

You'll need latest flash player though: 
http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer9.html

S.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Sent: 29 October 2007 10:35
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility

Jonathan,

Looks good however it is pretty pointless for the next year or so until SVG and 
 tag support is available in any of the browser releases.

I'm extremely impressed with Flash video, It is simple to convert the videos 
using Flash 8 encoder and the files are pretty small.  Can not wait until the 
H.264 codec support is released.

Regards

Adam

Quoting "~:'' ありがとうございました。" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Simon,
>
> have you seen this rotating, movable video in svg demo?
> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/08/svg-video-demo.html
>
> regards
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>
>
>
> On 29 Oct 2007, at 09:23, Simon Cobb wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> sorry for late reply, I've been on holiday. I agree that the splash 
> page is annoying - my 3 year old can't get past it as she can't read 
> it and doesn't know what it's for. But I guess she is young to surf alone.
>
> Anyway, back to the point, deep linking is possible right now with a 
> bit of js: http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/
>
> and there are plans to build deep linking into flex3 (due out in early
> 2008):
> http://flexwiki.adobe.com/confluence/display/ADOBE/Flex+3+Details++-+D
> eep+Linking
>
> There are a couple of other things I'm currently investigating to make 
> more accessible flash:
>
> http://blog.space150.com/2007/1/11/faust-flash-augmenting-standards
> http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/7-flash-myths/
>
> But really, despite the fact that by far the bulk of my programming 
> experience is in flash, I'm coming around to wondering what really, 
> really needs to be in flash these days when there are js libraries 
> like mootools out there. Also, increasingly, I get annoyed with flash 
> taking the keyboard focus rendering browser keyboard shortcuts 
> unusable and don't get me started on no text resizing (yes, I know about 
> sIFR).
>
> Currently my list to support the use of flash instead of js consists of:
>
> video
> sockets
>
> err, that's it.
>
> Anything else seems to be unnecessary but maybe some of you out there 
> can correct me?
>
> S.
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cisnky
> Sent: 27 October 2007 16:32
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility
>
> "but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking"
>
> How do you work that out?
>
>
> On 10/15/07, "~:'' ありがとうございました。" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Simon,
>
> apologies, can be a bit blunt if not downright wrong at times...
> peepo.com and peepo.co.uk are projects I ran for many years, designed 
> for the independent user who can navigate if not the operating system 
> then have fun browsing the web if not in a sandbox, a select group of 
> appropriate links.
> but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking, so each time the 
> visitor comes to this site they need help, to get past the first splash.
>
> fwiw, by mistake I opened in Opera, and the cursor isn't visible once 
> in the site, but not in the active window, probably a bug, but a real 
> nuisance for carers.
>
> regards
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>
>
>
> On 15 Oct 2007, at 09:40, Simon Cobb wrote:
>
> I'm sorry Jonathan, I've read this a few times now and I don't 
> understand your question: "maybe you are considering the webcam 
> question doesn't need to be switch accessible?"
>
> This is an interesting subject for me, could you ask the question 
> another way please?
>
> Thanks
>
> S.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
> "
> Sent: 15 October 2007 09:21
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility
>
> Simon &a

RE: [backstage] flash accessibility

[Simon Cobb]

JC you're right, yes to sound. (*^_^*) blushes that was an oversight, 
'video' should've read 'multimedia' in the original email 
 
I did have 'file upload' too until I googled 'ajax file upload'
 
S.
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Cartwright
Sent: 29 October 2007 09:55
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility


Sound?

J


On 29/10/2007, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hello,
 
sorry for late reply, I've been on holiday. I agree that the splash 
page is annoying - my 3 year old can't get past it as she can't read it and 
doesn't know what it's for. But I guess she is young to surf alone. 
 
Anyway, back to the point, deep linking is possible right now with a 
bit of js: http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/
 
and there are plans to build deep linking into flex3 (due out in early 
2008): 
http://flexwiki.adobe.com/confluence/display/ADOBE/Flex+3+Details++-+Deep+Linking
 
There are a couple of other things I'm currently investigating to make 
more accessible flash:
 
http://blog.space150.com/2007/1/11/faust-flash-augmenting-standards 
http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/7-flash-myths/ 
 
But really, despite the fact that by far the bulk of my programming 
experience is in flash, I'm coming around to wondering what really, really 
needs to be in flash these days when there are js libraries like mootools out 
there. Also, increasingly, I get annoyed with flash taking the keyboard focus 
rendering browser keyboard shortcuts unusable and don't get me started on no 
text resizing (yes, I know about sIFR).
 
Currently my list to support the use of flash instead of js consists of:
 
video
sockets
 
err, that's it.
 
Anything else seems to be unnecessary but maybe some of you out there 
can correct me?
 
S.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cisnky
Sent: 27 October 2007 16:32 

To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility



"but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking"
 
How do you work that out?

 
On 10/15/07, "~:'' ありがとうございました。" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Simon,

apologies, can be a bit blunt if not downright wrong at times...
peepo.com and peepo.co.uk are projects I ran for many years, 
designed
for the independent user who can navigate if not the operating 
system
then have fun browsing the web if not in a sandbox, a select 
group of 
appropriate links.
but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking, so each time the
visitor comes to this site they need help, to get past the 
first splash.

fwiw, by mistake I opened in Opera, and the cursor isn't 
visible once 
in the site, but not in the active window, probably a bug, but 
a real
nuisance for carers.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



On 15 Oct 2007, at 09:40, Simon Cobb wrote: 

I'm sorry Jonathan, I've read this a few times now and I don't
understand your question: "maybe you are considering the webcam 
question
doesn't need to be switch accessible?"

This is an interesting subject for me, could you ask the 
question
another way please?

Thanks

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
????"
Sent: 15 October 2007 09:21
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility

Simon & Jason,

maybe you are considering the webcam question doesn't need to 
be switch
accessible?
of course that makes the user dependent on others and is 
'frustrating' 
to say the least...
Camino 2007101201 2.0a1pre, the smaller win

RE: [backstage] flash accessibility

[Simon Cobb]

Hello,
 
sorry for late reply, I've been on holiday. I agree that the splash page is 
annoying - my 3 year old can't get past it as she can't read it and doesn't 
know what it's for. But I guess she is young to surf alone. 
 
Anyway, back to the point, deep linking is possible right now with a bit of js: 
http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/
 
and there are plans to build deep linking into flex3 (due out in early 2008): 
http://flexwiki.adobe.com/confluence/display/ADOBE/Flex+3+Details++-+Deep+Linking
 
There are a couple of other things I'm currently investigating to make more 
accessible flash:
 
http://blog.space150.com/2007/1/11/faust-flash-augmenting-standards
http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/7-flash-myths/
 
But really, despite the fact that by far the bulk of my programming experience 
is in flash, I'm coming around to wondering what really, really needs to be in 
flash these days when there are js libraries like mootools out there. Also, 
increasingly, I get annoyed with flash taking the keyboard focus rendering 
browser keyboard shortcuts unusable and don't get me started on no text 
resizing (yes, I know about sIFR).
 
Currently my list to support the use of flash instead of js consists of:
 
video
sockets
 
err, that's it.
 
Anything else seems to be unnecessary but maybe some of you out there can 
correct me?
 
S.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cisnky
Sent: 27 October 2007 16:32
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility


"but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking"
 
How do you work that out?

 
On 10/15/07, "~:'' ありがとうございました。" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Simon,

apologies, can be a bit blunt if not downright wrong at times...
peepo.com and peepo.co.uk are projects I ran for many years, designed
for the independent user who can navigate if not the operating system
then have fun browsing the web if not in a sandbox, a select group of 
appropriate links.
but flash generally doesn't allow deep linking, so each time the
visitor comes to this site they need help, to get past the first splash.

fwiw, by mistake I opened in Opera, and the cursor isn't visible once 
in the site, but not in the active window, probably a bug, but a real
nuisance for carers.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



On 15 Oct 2007, at 09:40, Simon Cobb wrote: 

I'm sorry Jonathan, I've read this a few times now and I don't
understand your question: "maybe you are considering the webcam question
doesn't need to be switch accessible?"

This is an interesting subject for me, could you ask the question
another way please?

Thanks

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
"
    Sent: 15 October 2007 09:21
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility

Simon & Jason,

maybe you are considering the webcam question doesn't need to be switch
accessible?
of course that makes the user dependent on others and is 'frustrating' 
to say the least...
Camino 2007101201 2.0a1pre, the smaller window pops open, but seems to
close immediately

regards
    
Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet 



On 15 Oct 2007, at 08:45, Simon Cobb wrote:


Ah... Apple, the champions of open technology and freedom of the user to
choose. Your choice of computer kind of invalidates your righteous anger
at commerical vendors, no?

Of course, I'm just being mischevious :)

Because Flash is my business, I had to go and check your claims on the
Mac on our testbench.

I'll give you that INTG doesn't work in IE on the Mac. But really, who 
is using IE/ Mac? Is it realistic for anyone to have to support it in
2007? Certainly, cbeebies client statistics agree, showing almost 100%
using a windows based browser. Further, I've also found through my 
research on Flash accessibility that almost all users with accessibility
requirements would also usually use a windows-based machine.

As for the INTG freeze on IE/ Mac, if you want my best guess, I'd say 
that IE/ Mac is una

RE: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

[Simon Cross]

Yeah, it should contain all the information currently avaliable -
originating network(s), genre(s), flavour, rss and show links.
 
We've got some work to do to get it live though, so its not totally
imminent.
 
S



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 16:09
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news


I was just about to scrape one together from the podcast index page.
Will it contain the categories and the origination channels?


On 18/10/2007, Simon Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Theres a master podcast OPML feed on the way. we'll let you
know



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 14:13 

To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news


 

On 18/10/2007, Matthew Cashmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
wrote: 

This would be a good place to start Brian...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/

 
A 'all podcast' RSS feed would be useful...
 


Which is a redirect from

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/ 


On 18/10/07 13:30, "Brian Butterworth"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 





On 18/10/2007, Ian Forrester <
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: 


You should do, Windows media player can
be embedded and played on Windows mobile 5 & 6 devices no problem. Plus
you all know the streaming urls and screen sizes of most windows mobile
devices. 

I would use it for sure.



Oh right.
 
What I was thinking was that it would be very
useful to be presented with all the podcasts in a "latest published"
release, and have just a few buttons:
 
- play now
- mark to download 
- an "I love this" button, so you get to see
this podcast highlighted when there is a new version available and
(press again) to download automatically
- an "I hate this" button, this would become a
low priority on the first press, and become hidden eventually 
- an "I've already heard this" button 
 
The love/hate facility would simply
increment/decrement an internal counter for the podcast feed. 
 
I suspect you could also have a prioritization
system based upon the channel that originated the programme. 
 
Another useful facility would be to see which
programmes are downloaded by each user - you could then do a "people who
like this also liked"
 
Is there a master index for all the BBC's
podcasts? 
 



Ian Forrester

This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [  ] ask
first; [  ] bloggable

Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane,
London W12 7TP 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
p: +44 (0)2080083965 
 






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of Brian
Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 11:21 

To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

 
I was thinking of doing something
similar for Windows Media Player..

On 18/10/2007, Simon Cross
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<

RE: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

[Simon Cross]

Why not try the BBC Podcasts Facebook App!
 
http://apps.facebook.com/bbcpodcasts
 
Feature requests welcome - but you can mark podcasts as your favourites,
and it'll notify you when a new one becomes avaliable.
 
S



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 13:31
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news




On 18/10/2007, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

You should do, Windows media player can be embedded and played
on Windows mobile 5 & 6 devices no problem. Plus you all know the
streaming urls and screen sizes of most windows mobile devices. 
 
I would use it for sure.

 
Oh right.
 
What I was thinking was that it would be very useful to be presented
with all the podcasts in a "latest published" release, and have just a
few buttons:
 
- play now
- mark to download
- an "I love this" button, so you get to see this podcast highlighted
when there is a new version available and (press again) to download
automatically
- an "I hate this" button, this would become a low priority on the first
press, and become hidden eventually
- an "I've already heard this" button 
 
The love/hate facility would simply increment/decrement an internal
counter for the podcast feed. 
 
I suspect you could also have a prioritization system based upon the
channel that originated the programme.
 
Another useful facility would be to see which programmes are downloaded
by each user - you could then do a "people who like this also liked"
 
Is there a master index for all the BBC's podcasts?
 


Ian Forrester

This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [  ] ask first; [  ] bloggable

Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
p: +44 (0)2080083965


 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 11:21 

To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news


 

I was thinking of doing something similar for Windows
Media Player..


On 18/10/2007, Simon Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
wrote: 

Finally we might be able to do things propery!
 
We've been working on a podcast browser for
iPhone which is in alpha at the moment
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/iphone/   -- note:
requires Safari to view, or an iphone/touch obviously!
 
S



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] On Behalf Of Martin Deutsch
Sent: 17 October 2007 17:36
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

 

I'd say that Apple have a good track record of
releasing things, generally when they say they will. The only major
product I can recall not seeing the light of day was Copland
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_%2528operating_system%2529> , over
10 years ago.
 
 - martin

 
On 10/17/07, Brian Butterworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: 

On 17/10/2007, Adam Lindsay <
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: 

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

Native third party applications on the
iPhone (and iPod touch) will be 
enabled via an SDK as of February 2008.

 
There's a name for that .. vapourware



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RE: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

[Simon Cross]

Theres a master podcast OPML feed on the way. we'll let you know



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 14:13
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news


On 18/10/2007, Matthew Cashmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

This would be a good place to start Brian...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/

 
A 'all podcast' RSS feed would be useful...
 


Which is a redirect from

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/ 


On 18/10/07 13:30, "Brian Butterworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: 





On 18/10/2007, Ian Forrester < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: 


You should do, Windows media player can be
embedded and played on Windows mobile 5 & 6 devices no problem. Plus you
all know the streaming urls and screen sizes of most windows mobile
devices. 

I would use it for sure.



Oh right.
 
What I was thinking was that it would be very useful to
be presented with all the podcasts in a "latest published" release, and
have just a few buttons:
 
- play now
- mark to download 
- an "I love this" button, so you get to see this
podcast highlighted when there is a new version available and (press
again) to download automatically
- an "I hate this" button, this would become a low
priority on the first press, and become hidden eventually 
- an "I've already heard this" button 
 
The love/hate facility would simply increment/decrement
an internal counter for the podcast feed. 
 
I suspect you could also have a prioritization system
based upon the channel that originated the programme. 
 
Another useful facility would be to see which programmes
are downloaded by each user - you could then do a "people who like this
also liked"
 
Is there a master index for all the BBC's podcasts? 
 



Ian Forrester

This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [  ] ask first; [
] bloggable

Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12
7TP
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
p: +44 (0)2080083965 
 






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of Brian
Butterworth
Sent: 18 October 2007 11:21 

To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

 
I was thinking of doing something
similar for Windows Media Player..

On 18/10/2007, Simon Cross
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  > wrote: 


Finally we might be able to do things
propery!

We've been working on a podcast browser
for iPhone which is in alpha at the moment


http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/iphone/
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/iphone/>
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/iphone/>-- note:
requires Safari to view, or an iphone/touch obviously!

S




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of Martin Deutsch
Sent: 17 October 2007 17:36
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

 
   

RE: [backstage] iPhone SDK news

[Simon Cross]

Finally we might be able to do things propery!
 
We've been working on a podcast browser for iPhone which is in alpha at
the moment
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/directory/iphone/  -- note: requires
Safari to view, or an iphone/touch obviously!
 
S



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Deutsch
Sent: 17 October 2007 17:36
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iPhone SDK news


I'd say that Apple have a good track record of releasing things,
generally when they say they will. The only major product I can recall
not seeing the light of day was Copland
 , over
10 years ago.
 
 - martin

 
On 10/17/07, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

On 17/10/2007, Adam Lindsay < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

Native third party applications on the iPhone (and iPod
touch) will be 
enabled via an SDK as of February 2008.

 
There's a name for that .. vapourware



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RE: [backstage] flash accessibility

[Simon Cobb]

I'm sorry Jonathan, I've read this a few times now and I don't
understand your question: "maybe you are considering the webcam question
doesn't need to be switch accessible?" 

This is an interesting subject for me, could you ask the question
another way please?

Thanks

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
"
Sent: 15 October 2007 09:21
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] flash accessibility

Simon & Jason,

maybe you are considering the webcam question doesn't need to be switch
accessible?
of course that makes the user dependent on others and is 'frustrating'
to say the least...
Camino 2007101201 2.0a1pre, the smaller window pops open, but seems to
close immediately

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



On 15 Oct 2007, at 08:45, Simon Cobb wrote:


Ah... Apple, the champions of open technology and freedom of the user to
choose. Your choice of computer kind of invalidates your righteous anger
at commerical vendors, no?

Of course, I'm just being mischevious :)

Because Flash is my business, I had to go and check your claims on the
Mac on our testbench.

I'll give you that INTG doesn't work in IE on the Mac. But really, who
is using IE/ Mac? Is it realistic for anyone to have to support it in
2007? Certainly, cbeebies client statistics agree, showing almost 100%
using a windows based browser. Further, I've also found through my
research on Flash accessibility that almost all users with accessibility
requirements would also usually use a windows-based machine.

As for the INTG freeze on IE/ Mac, if you want my best guess, I'd say
that IE/ Mac is unable to allow Flash to perform the operating system
check at the start of the INTG application.

If so, it's ironic because this os check was especially put in for Mac
users.

Some Macs have a built-in webcam that users might not be aware is on and
thus be baffled when the webcam parts of the game show unexepected
views.

In order that the application's functionality was most accessible to all
Mac users, this check makes sure the user can nominate the webcam to
use.

Lastly, for what it's worth, Cbeebies client stats show that almost 100%
of visitors use windows-based machines.

"space and return don't work in any browser"

Got to refute that  - I just used it in Safari and it worked just fine.
Works in ubuntu linux (my daughter loves this game), works on a windows
machine. I'd say that just about covers it for access unless through
choice you have made flash unavailable.

S.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
"
Sent: 13 October 2007 06:30
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] flash accessibility

Some BBC staff have been known to trumpet the accessibility features of
flash.
the BBC is also known to have tied itself into this commercial vendor.

Can someone explain why on my OS X machine at least the supposedly
switch accessible:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/inthenightgarden/flash/index.shtml
space and return don't work in any browser and IE crashes

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



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RE: [backstage] flash accessibility

[Simon Cobb]

Ah... Apple, the champions of open technology and freedom of the user to
choose. Your choice of computer kind of invalidates your righteous anger
at commerical vendors, no?

Of course, I'm just being mischevious :)

Because Flash is my business, I had to go and check your claims on the
Mac on our testbench. 

I'll give you that INTG doesn't work in IE on the Mac. But really, who
is using IE/ Mac? Is it realistic for anyone to have to support it in
2007? Certainly, cbeebies client statistics agree, showing almost 100%
using a windows based browser. Further, I've also found through my
research on Flash accessibility that almost all users with accessibility
requirements would also usually use a windows-based machine.

As for the INTG freeze on IE/ Mac, if you want my best guess, I'd say
that IE/ Mac is unable to allow Flash to perform the operating system
check at the start of the INTG application.

If so, it's ironic because this os check was especially put in for Mac
users. 

Some Macs have a built-in webcam that users might not be aware is on and
thus be baffled when the webcam parts of the game show unexepected
views. 

In order that the application's functionality was most accessible to all
Mac users, this check makes sure the user can nominate the webcam to
use.

Lastly, for what it's worth, Cbeebies client stats show that almost 100%
of visitors use windows-based machines. 

"space and return don't work in any browser"

Got to refute that  - I just used it in Safari and it worked just fine.
Works in ubuntu linux (my daughter loves this game), works on a windows
machine. I'd say that just about covers it for access unless through
choice you have made flash unavailable.

S.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
"
Sent: 13 October 2007 06:30
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] flash accessibility

Some BBC staff have been known to trumpet the accessibility features of
flash.
the BBC is also known to have tied itself into this commercial vendor.

Can someone explain why on my OS X machine at least the supposedly
switch accessible:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/inthenightgarden/flash/index.shtml
space and return don't work in any browser and IE crashes

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



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RE: [backstage] From FoWA - Paul Graham from Y Combinator

[Simon Cobb]

By coincidence I read this on the future of web startups from paul
graham just today: http://www.paulgraham.com/webstartups.html 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mr I Forrester
Sent: 05 October 2007 01:48
To: BBC Backstage
Subject: [backstage] From FoWA - Paul Graham from Y Combinator

I attended the FOWA conference and have quite a blog post saved up from
my notes.

But I wanted to explorer the myths or truths of Silicon Valley. Paul
Graham this morning said you should move to silicon valley if your
serious about this stuff or at least its an "advantage." This caused
quite a stir and prompted Ryan Carson (co-owner of the conference) to
stand on stage afterwards and say its not about Silicon Valley and you
can run successful start-ups anywhere in the world. This was further
brought up in a discussion with the guys from Jaiku (finland) and Placez
(germany). Tom Coates announced late this afternoon (not seen anything
on his blog about it) he would be moving to San Francisco to run the
yahoo startup-like project The Brickhouse (congrats tom!). And finally
Dick Costolo from Feedburner (Chicago) had a few choice words to say
about Paul Graham's its all about Silicon Valley comments.

So anyway, I wondered what others felt about this issue? Bobbie has a
nice overview of what was said by Paul earlier -
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/10/04/future_of_web_apps_pau
l_graham.html

Cheers

Ian
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RE: [backstage] New APIs... What next

[Simon Cobb]

Change to flash's crossdomain policy file on bbc.co.uk.
 
Currently Flash's security sandbox won't allow flash hosted on non-BBC
(sub)domains to load data like rss feeds. 
 
Its crossdomain policy file disallows access to data for all but
*.bbc.co.uk hosted flash: http://www.bbc.co.uk/crossdomain.xml
 
Yahoo allow non- *.yahoo sites already for Pipes:
http://pipes.yahooapis.com/crossdomain.xml so you can get BBC data that
way by using Pipes as a proxy, but it'd be good to get data direct from
the source.
 
S.
 
 
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Newey
Sent: 04 October 2007 14:41
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [backstage] New APIs... What next


News 24 subtitles in some just-about-live form please :) 

Steve


On 4 Oct 2007, at 13:51, Matthew Cashmore wrote:


So come on then... With a fresh burst of energy now the new
mailing list is live I thought it was about time we asked that question
again... What new feeds and APIs would you like to see from the BBC?

Shout loudly and we'll chase them up - if you've got a specific
idea that requires a specific feed even better - but if you just fancy
messing around with the innards of an obscure part of the organisation,
that's fun too ;-)

m
___
Matthew Cashmore
Development Producer

BBC Future Media & Technology, Research and Innovation
BC5C3, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP

T:020 8008 3959(02  83959) 
M:07711 913241(072 83959)

RE: [backstage] Thoughts from a previous BBC employee

[Simon Cobb]

Thanks for finding this Ian. Got me thinking too.

Jase said:

"Auntie likes to have few, big, expensive, milestone projects to burn
the cash in a predictable manner, whereas the more flexible internet
industry takes a gamble on many small, inexpensive, iterative projects.
"Please fail very quickly - so that you can try again" - 

And Tom Coates (is this* the article you reference Ian? If not, could
you dig it out please?):

"what makes me so surprised when people outside the organisation talk
about how scared they are of the huge moves that the BBC can make on the
internet, because the truth is that for the most part - with a bunch of
limited exceptions - these changes just don't seem to be really
happening. The industry should be more furious about the lack of
progress at the organisation than the speed of it"

True dat. 

To give away my age, I remember listening to Kenny Everett on what was
called the wireless back then. 

His shows were some of the most innovative radio around. 

His process was iterative, he basically stayed in the studio all week
noodling around to see what he thought worked and then delivered his
show at the end of that week and let the audience see if that worked.

One week development cycles out of which grew many larger and longer
running fixtures of his show.

Kenny had a vision - he was left alone to see it through. But due to the
weekly cycles nothing grew so big or so involved that it couldn't have
the plug pulled on it if he or his stakeholders so decided**. As a
result, I suspect, little damage was done when it went wrong.

And that, to my 1970s self, made the BBC great - it was THE place of
innovation in content and technique. 

*
http://www.plasticbag.org/archives/2006/07/whos_afraid_of_ashley_highfie
ld/
** my source is the excellent but somewhat rose-tinted and sentimental
audio documentary 'Kenny Everett at the Beeb' voiced by Barry Cryer:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenny-Everett-Beeb-Presented-Collection/dp/05635
57117/ref=sr_1_22/203-0986040-9263968?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191394985&sr=
8-22 so I'm aware that this is open to question/ debate.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mr I Forrester
Sent: 03 October 2007 02:57
To: BBC Backstage
Subject: [backstage] Thoughts from a previous BBC employee

In a similar vein to Tom Coates post a long time ago. Someone who loves
the BBC but also hates some of the decisions it makes. Had me up most of
the night.

http://www.jasoncartwright.com/blog/entry/2007/9/bbc.co.uk_2.0_why_it_is
nt_happening
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RE: [backstage] Re: built with

[Simon Cobb]

Wow, it's taken a real beating from the discerning folks on this list

Note to self: test these things properly before sending them out :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mr I Forrester
Sent: 20 September 2007 11:16
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Re: built with

http://builtwith.com/default.aspx?www.cubicgarden.com

Not a single mention about me running Resin

Cheers

Ian
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RE: [backstage] built with

[Simon Cobb]

Ok, so they may be over-selling it with their tagline, but it does show
flash: http://builtwith.com/default.aspx?http://www.thefwa.com/ 

I guess they could rewrite tagline from: "Find out what a site is built
with" to "Find out what a page is built with on the client side with
some server-side stuff too when it's given away by the page extension"
but, whilst more accurate, it's not so catchy.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Lockwood
Sent: 19 September 2007 14:12
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] built with

Sort of.  It's very keen to tell you a site's ASP.NET when it isn't, and
doesn't seem to crawl a site - rather, it just looks at the one page you
tell it.  Try looking at my band's site:
www.scopies.co.uk

It makes no mention of Flash (which is there at www.scopies.co.uk/jb)
and is quite convinced it's .NET - it isn't, it's "classic" ASP.

(Oh - and I know it looks terrible in Firefox, before anyone else points
it out)

Cheers,

Rich.


On 9/19/07, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm liking this site: http://builtwith.com/
>
> Shows you what a site is, er, built with
>
> example:
> http://builtwith.com/default.aspx?backstage.bbc.co.uk
>
>
>
>


--
SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073

Registered address:
4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX
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[backstage] built with

[Simon Cobb]

I'm liking this site: http://builtwith.com/
 
Shows you what a site is, er, built with 
 
example: http://builtwith.com/default.aspx?backstage.bbc.co.uk
 

 

 

RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:46:04 +0100

[Simon Cobb]

I am that 
interested in apple products because I think they dictate how a user can
use their product far too much and marrying the iphone to a single
network is typical of this arrogance (yes I know it's been hacked open
so hopefully the hacks will become more accessible so that everyone can
benefit except the poor network)
 
Basically I see apple as the opposite of what this list is about: "use
our stuff to build your stuff". The very idea. Jobs would hate that you
thought apple product could be improved.
 
Am I wrong?
 
 
 
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 14 September 2007 08:59
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:46:04 +0100


So, if the iPhone is such a brilliant idea, I can only assume that
everyone will rush out and replace their keyboards with flat screen
devices with no physical feedback?

 
On 14/09/2007, Christopher Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Officially A Good Thing. I was first with Vodafone years ago
when I had my
first (pay as you go, aww!) phone - their coverage was great but
expensive. 
Hasn't changed much from what I can tell.

O2's network just couldn't handle the amount of usage,
especially data-wise
- Vodafone's far better geared towards an influx of regular
data-and-voice 
users, and they have a better market presence imo.

Could be interesting to see if they can improve on their
flatrate data
offering off the back of an eventual iPhone package...

> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian
Forrester 
> Sent: 13 September 2007 13:46
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Cc: Internal-Backstage-Discuss
> Subject: [backstage] Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:46:04 +0100 
>
>
http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/155905316/-299418.php
>
> Apple UK is holding a press event next Tuesday at their 
> Regent St. headquarters. "Mum is no longer the word" they say
> in the invite, so I guess now we can talk about O2's iPhone
> deal in the open.
>
> Found via Particls ( www.particls.com
 )
> ---
>
> So I got a feeling Vodafone might have stole the deal from
> O2. What do others think?
>
>
>
> Ian Forrester
>
> This e-mail is: [ ] private; [  ] ask first; [ x ] bloggable 
>
> Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
> BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> p: +44 (0)2080083965
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To
> unsubscribe, please visit
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>   Unofficial list archive:
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-- 
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FW: [backstage] 50 designers 6 questions

[Simon Cobb]

oops hit reply direct to you Brian, meant to reply to the list -
apologies



From: Simon Cobb 
Sent: 06 September 2007 12:45
To: 'Brian Butterworth'
Subject: RE: [backstage] 50 designers 6 questions


Thanks for that, very interesting.
 
Though I thought as it was titled "Ten pieces of advice for old media
<http://www.badscience.net/?p=512> " the blanket ban on use of Flash
(point 9) was an odd one.
 
Certainly I'd agree that flash could be "slow to load" and it would
definitely be "irritating to browse" when providing text-based
newspaper/ magazine content. 
 
But if you're a TV company offering promo clips and/ or interactive
video content embedded on your page, surely Flash is the natural choice?
 
This is Flash's problem in 2007 as I see it. Years of gimmickery have
tainted what Flash has become really good at:
 
video
interactive video
image rendering and transforming 
and to provide all that with the potential of a lovely interface on top.

 
Plus since Flash neatly sidesteps any cross-browser issues, any lazy web
dev/designer can put their content into it and know it looks the same in
every browser. Regardless of how approriate that content is for flash.
 
Rant over.
 
 
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 05 September 2007 16:00
To: Simon Cobb
Subject: Re: [backstage] 50 designers 6 questions


Simon,
 
Very good article that one...
 
Did you see this one?
 
http://www.badscience.net/?p=512

 
On 05/09/07, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

more great stuff from the folks at smashingmagazine
 

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/09/05/50-designers-x-6-questions/ 
 

S.




-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth
www.ukfree.tv 

[backstage] 50 designers 6 questions

[Simon Cobb]

more great stuff from the folks at smashingmagazine
 
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/09/05/50-designers-x-6-questions/
 

S.

RE: [backstage] resize, rotate and move multiple video files while they are playing...

[Simon Cobb]

Thanks for that, very interesting. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
"
Sent: 29 August 2007 10:11
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] resize, rotate and move multiple video files while
they are playing...

resize, rotate and move multiple video files while they are playing...

http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/08/svg-video-demo.html
http://ajaxian.com/archives/svg-video-now-playing-on-a-standard-near-you

and

http://labs.opera.com./

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



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RE: [backstage] DAB Radio - channel icons // BBC Radio website icons

[Simon Cross]

Hi Brian,
 
As you'll understand, rolling out logos is a massive job across all
platforms, sites etc. It becomes even more of a challenge when you have
to do 10 radio networks at once ;-)
 
We've got a dedicated team who are rolling out the logos across the web
- there are different teams for Digital TV etc. I've passed your
comments onto the team, but I'm sure this is on their list, they just
haven't got there yet!
 

Simon Cross 
Senior Client Side (Web) Developer 
BBC Future Media and Technology - Audio & Music 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
x50849 | 07967 444 304 
Rm 718, Henry Wood House, London W1A 1AA 

 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 21 August 2007 09:57
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] DAB Radio - channel icons // BBC Radio website
icons


Hi,
 
Auntie's changing her radio channel icons on the website, but whilst
they all seem to have leaked onto Wikipedea (with very dubious quality),
I was wondering when the icons are going to change for DAB Radio and the
.ICO files on the website (as used by IE, Google et al). 
 
As I have had to disable the WAP services on my Lobster 700TV, I can
only assume that the icons that appear (two forms, square and
rectangular) are transmitted as part of the WAP datastream..  who is
responsible for their updates? 
 
And the likes of the bbc.co.uk/radio1/radio1.ico file is still the old
logo, whilst the page itself is updated.  
 
While we are at it, the dynamic background on the Radio 1 site has a
"radio 1 logo" option which is still the old version too.
 
I know it's a bit off topic, but it's a bit inconsistent!
 
Brian Butterworth

RE: [backstage] more data visualisation links

[Simon Cobb]

"That's a total cop-out, either you can explain why no usability testing
is required or not.  " 
 
if I'd taken up either position, I would explain it, I'm not going to do
it just because you ask. 
 
"Personally I don't drink so I can't see why I would never discover the
great truth that has been revealed to your good self." 
 
I don't have any truths. Except the truth that I can't spend time
discussing on this list something that's off-topic and that would be
quicker done face-to-face. That's all the pint reference was about. Not
some Blake-style path to enlightenment by excess.
 
Over and out. I'm done here.
 
 
 
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 15 August 2007 10:10
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] more data visualisation links


On 15/08/07, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Kim said: "Useful or Playful? Is the question to ask." 
 
I'd argue that useful and playful can be part of the same thing.
Certainly nothing ever stuck with me that I didn't enjoy using/ thinking
about. Likewise many of the children I used to teach. The trick is to
combine the 2. I think there's ways from that set of visualisations to
encourage people to make playful and useful interfaces to bbc data/ apps
if the API's were available. 

 
 
As I was trying to say, a system that allows the end-user to construct
live visualizations of data is a commendable idea, but (almost) by
definition this will be impossible for others to use.  For example, many
people will use red to indicate an error state and green to indicate a
OK condition.  But you can't use that for everyone as 10% of men are
red-green colourblind. 
 
If you do some research you will also find out that some people are
visually-orientated and respond well to these kinds of representations.
But others prefer speech over visual explanations and this kind of thing
will exclude those people. 


 
Brian said: "I presume you have some substantive evidence that
no testing is require then?"
 
That's not what I said, it's just that I'm not personally
convinced that his views are as up-to-date as they should be and so
cannot perpetuate his status as an untouchable usability expert. But
that's best discussed over a pint at some unspecified future backstage
event rather than this list. 

 
That's a total cop-out, either you can explain why no usability testing
is required or not.  Personally I don't drink so I can't see why I would
never discover the great truth that has been revealed to your good self.
Simply being rude about someone is a failure to explain - just an insult
rather than a debunking. 
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 14 August 2007 18:12 
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] more data visualisation links 

 

I guess this brings us right back to Richard MacDuff's "Anthem"
programme which attempted much the same but with music in the first Dirk
Gently book (coming soon to Radio 4)...


On 14/08/07, Kim Plowright <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: 

I think the point here is 'does the visualisation of the
data adds
meaning, or is just pretty to look at?'. 

Does your visualisation tell people more about the data
set than the
raw numbers? Is it 'legible'? Does it expose trends and
meaning that
would otherwise be hidden to all but the most numerate?
Does it let 
someone reach sound conclusions faster, or navigate
quicker, or become
more accurate?

Which is Tufte territory,  not Nielsen.
http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/ 

Not that there's anything wrong with pretty, but good
datavis is about
adding layers of meaning, as well as the layers of
aesthetics.

Its possible to remove the 'data' during the
visualisation process and 
turn it in to a purely aesthetic entertainment
experience, too. Some
of the Jonathan Harris stuff does this - it's
information as
spectacle. Fun to look at, not 'wrong' per se, but a
terrible way of
actually turning data -> information -> knowledge.

Useful or Playful? Is the question to ask.

> Some of these seem to be of dubious real use.  Has
anyone put any of them
 

RE: [backstage] more data visualisation links

[Simon Cobb]

Kim said: "Useful or Playful? Is the question to ask." 
 
I'd argue that useful and playful can be part of the same thing.
Certainly nothing ever stuck with me that I didn't enjoy using/ thinking
about. Likewise many of the children I used to teach. The trick is to
combine the 2. I think there's ways from that set of visualisations to
encourage people to make playful and useful interfaces to bbc data/ apps
if the API's were available.
 
Brian said: "I presume you have some substantive evidence that no
testing is require then?"
 
That's not what I said, it's just that I'm not personally convinced that
his views are as up-to-date as they should be and so cannot perpetuate
his status as an untouchable usability expert. But that's best discussed
over a pint at some unspecified future backstage event rather than this
list.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 14 August 2007 18:12
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] more data visualisation links


I guess this brings us right back to Richard MacDuff's "Anthem"
programme which attempted much the same but with music in the first Dirk
Gently book (coming soon to Radio 4)...


On 14/08/07, Kim Plowright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I think the point here is 'does the visualisation of the data
adds
meaning, or is just pretty to look at?'. 

Does your visualisation tell people more about the data set than
the
raw numbers? Is it 'legible'? Does it expose trends and meaning
that
would otherwise be hidden to all but the most numerate? Does it
let 
someone reach sound conclusions faster, or navigate quicker, or
become
more accurate?

Which is Tufte territory,  not Nielsen.
http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/ 

Not that there's anything wrong with pretty, but good datavis is
about
adding layers of meaning, as well as the layers of aesthetics.

Its possible to remove the 'data' during the visualisation
process and 
turn it in to a purely aesthetic entertainment experience, too.
Some
of the Jonathan Harris stuff does this - it's information as
spectacle. Fun to look at, not 'wrong' per se, but a terrible
way of
actually turning data -> information -> knowledge.

Useful or Playful? Is the question to ask.

> Some of these seem to be of dubious real use.  Has anyone put
any of them
> though Jakob Nielsen-style user testing? 
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-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help. 

Brian Butterworth
www.ukfree.tv 

RE: [backstage] more data visualisation links

[Simon Cobb]

Every time with the Jakob. I've already expressed my (obviously
personal) opinion once so here is my Nielsen haiku: 
 
 
Modern users ask
 
what time is Mr Nielsen?
 
1994.
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: 14 August 2007 14:54
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] more data visualisation links


Some of these seem to be of dubious real use.  Has anyone put any of
them though Jakob Nielsen-style user testing?
 
For example, I got taught to use mind-maps back at school in '86, but
the whole point of them is that you create them personally to help you
to use a "visual system" to help memorise abstract things - if someone
else (or a machine) makes them then you are into "meaningless"
territory... 
 
The spiky-graph one is the most comprehensible style.

 
On 14/08/07, Simon Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/08/02/data-visualization-modern-app
roaches/ 
 
Now, I'd like to see the musicovery.com <http://musicovery.com/>
approach applied as an alternative nav for the bbc radio player: 
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/index.shtml?button 


____

From: Simon Cobb 
Sent: 16 May 2007 09:42
To: ' backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
<mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> '
Subject: data visualisation links

 
Despite its use of the word 'awesome', this article led me to
some interesting stuff:
 

http://mashable.com/2007/05/15/16-awesome-data-visualization-tools/ 
 
hope it does the same for you. 
 
Disclaimer: I forward it for the ideas/ concepts deployed by
these sites, not for their accessibility
 




-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth
www.ukfree.tv 

[backstage] more data visualisation links

[Simon Cobb]

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/08/02/data-visualization-modern-app
roaches/
 
Now, I'd like to see the musicovery.com approach applied as an
alternative nav for the bbc radio player:
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/index.shtml?button




From: Simon Cobb 
Sent: 16 May 2007 09:42
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: data visualisation links


Despite its use of the word 'awesome', this article led me to some
interesting stuff:
 
http://mashable.com/2007/05/15/16-awesome-data-visualization-tools/
 
hope it does the same for you. 
 
Disclaimer: I forward it for the ideas/ concepts deployed by these
sites, not for their accessibility
 

RE: [backstage] More iPlayer protesting

[Simon Cobb]

  (EXTREMELY) minority OSes? I mean, come on, hands up who here on the 
> list uses Linux as their primary OS.

And me. And as such I just accept that if I want to watch any channel's
output on-demand, there's a box in my living room that will capture it
for me with the minimum of configuration.

It's an old-fangled piece of tech called a video recorder. 

But that's just me

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robl
Sent: 01 August 2007 09:39
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] More iPlayer protesting


> Not that I'm condoning the choice, personally I'll always prefer an 
> agnostic system, but, well, maybe the BBC were just realists when it 
> came to the practicalities of development cost versus ROI from 
> creating versions for
> (EXTREMELY) minority OSes? I mean, come on, hands up who here on the 
> list uses Linux as their primary OS.

Me
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RE: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash

[Simon Cobb]

That IS funny, but how many folks ever ever read the t's and c's? I know
I don't: http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php and
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000892.html 

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer
Sent: 30 July 2007 12:51
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash

On 30/07/07, James Bridle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> The software runs without your knowledge, although you agree to this 
> in the terms and conditions.

Splorf!

--
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [backstage] iplayer reviewed on mashable.com

[Simon Cobb]

Thanks. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Jolly
Sent: 27 July 2007 09:22
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] iplayer reviewed on mashable.com

Simon Cobb wrote:
> p2p though? I thought it was straight downloads. Can anyone set me 
> straight? Thanks.

It's p2p - based on Kontiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontiki

S
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[backstage] iplayer reviewed on mashable.com

[Simon Cobb]

 
 
http://mashable.com/2007/07/26/bbc-iplayer-2/
 
p2p though? I thought it was straight downloads. Can anyone set me
straight? Thanks.

  ___ 
Simon Cobb 
Technical Project Manager, BBC Vision (F&L) 
BBC Future Media & Technology
2507, White City, London W12 7TS 
T:  020 875 27968 

 

RE: [backstage] Over 10,000 sign BBC iplayer petition

[Simon Cobb]

did you all see this already? NOt been following the list today:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/25/bbc_iplayer_linux_macosx/


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of vijay chopra
Sent: Wed 25/07/2007 3:28 PM
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Over 10,000 sign BBC iplayer petition
 
On 25/07/07, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You won't get anything, the FOI Act makes provision for the witholding of
> documentation relating to commercial negotiations.


The whole point of the BBC is that it's not a commercial entity (at least
domestically). Besides, if I don't ask, I won't get; if I do ask, the worst
they can do is refuse me.

Vijay.

RE: [backstage] Microsoft TV - Live!

[Simon Cobb]

If I'd know they were going to be picky about who they picked I wouldn't
have signed up as Juan Tanamera, CEO JuantastiCo



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Woods
Sent: 06 July 2007 09:19
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Microsoft TV - Live!


Applied...
 
Symbolic irony? The woman in the site's stock art is sitting in the
grass and using (presumably) LiveStation... on an iBook. Hah.
 
... Or is this a hint towards Microsoft implementing some of that
much-vaunted platform agnosticism we all talk about but never seem to
see much of?




From: Simon Cobb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 06 July 2007 09:04
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] Microsoft TV - Live!


Microsoft Research beta 'livestation' - in Silverlight, yet!
 
http://beta.livestation.com/
 
I tried to sign up for this but got the following reply:
 
"Thanks for your request to sign up for the LiveStation beta
technical
trial.

We are currently running a public technical trial and this means
that
we are growing the user base in a controlled manner to monitor
how
growth affects a variety of LiveStation parameters.

Due to the popularity of the trial, we cannot guarantee your
request
to participate will be successful at this stage. However, we
will
endeavour to ensure you are on the next phase of the release,
coming
soon.

Thanks again for your interest, we look forward to bringing live
TV to
your computer very soon!

The LiveStation Team"
 
Found out about livestation from mashable.com: Found it in this
news story: http://mashable.com/2007/07/05/livestation/
<http://mashable.com/2007/07/05/livestation/> 

 

 

[backstage] Microsoft TV - Live!

[Simon Cobb]

Microsoft Research beta 'livestation' - in Silverlight, yet!
 
http://beta.livestation.com/
 
I tried to sign up for this but got the following reply:
 
"Thanks for your request to sign up for the LiveStation beta technical
trial.

We are currently running a public technical trial and this means that
we are growing the user base in a controlled manner to monitor how
growth affects a variety of LiveStation parameters.

Due to the popularity of the trial, we cannot guarantee your request
to participate will be successful at this stage. However, we will
endeavour to ensure you are on the next phase of the release, coming
soon.

Thanks again for your interest, we look forward to bringing live TV to
your computer very soon!

The LiveStation Team"
 
Found out about livestation from mashable.com: Found it in this news
story: http://mashable.com/2007/07/05/livestation/
 

 

 

RE: [backstage] BT 21C SDK

[Simon Cross]

Very Cool.

250 texts for £10 via a API, awesome. I'm paying 6p/msg at the mo. 4p is very 
good value. Now placing voice calls in an app

S 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Cartwright
Sent: 26 June 2007 18:01
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] BT 21C SDK

http://sdk.bt.com/

This has just gone live (it was beta, or something, before). Very interesting.

J

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[backstage] openID on the BBC

[Simon Cobb]

Did anyone else see this article on openID? 
http://www.nik.com.au/archives/2007/03/12/openid-too-many-providers-not-enough-consumers/

(Suddenly I've got the fear that this HAS already been done here- too many 
lists to remember! - anyway I shall plough on as if it hadn't)

The article's basic thrust, as I understand it, is that whilst openID is A Good 
Thing, there aren't enough sites offering to be merely 'consumers' of openID. 
Most don't want users signing in with details that are locked to an alternative 
service, they wish to control users' personal data. 

But it struck me that the BBC is positioned to take advantage of openID since 
it doesn't have any commercial motivation to lock "customers" in. And further, 
it allows uers to choose which authentication provider they want, promoting 
user choice and lastly, it means the amount of personal data the BBC gathers is 
reduced.

In return this could drive uptake of openID as other sites see a major 
broadcaster using it.

Of course, for those folks who don't have an account with any other openID 
provider, they can use a proprietary BBC authentication system (lets call it 
"SSO", heh).

I can only see advantages to deploying openID on the BBC - have I missed 
something?

RE: [backstage] BBC "Radio" 7

[Simon Cobb]

I can't answer that, but I noticed that during the championship playoff
final yesterday my digital radio (some Argos cheapo) displayed 5 live
as:

BBC Radio 5l 

I had to look twice at the lower case l on the end to work out what it
was.

S.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Kirk
Sent: 29 May 2007 14:25
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] BBC "Radio" 7

Last night I noticed my digital radio (The Bug) displayed "BBC Radio 7"
instead of the usual BBC 7. The shortcut also displayed as BBC R7, like
Radio 4 does. I investigated and found 6music had also changed - BBC
Radio 6 music.

Why is this? Obviously it's a radio broadcast - it's a digital radio...
BBC Radio 1 - 4 & Five Five I understand, as, broadcast on traditional
radio, have always been called this; 7 never has.

--
Gary Kirk
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RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'

[Simon Cobb]

 "I still think he needs to update his own web site though, it looks
like it's stuck in the 90s."

Do you mean useit.com? Agreed. I'm not saying Jakob has nothing to say
but to paraphrase 80s ska combo Madness "don't watch that, watch
this..!": 

http://www.informationarchitects.jp/ 

Now, whether information architects have got anything to say or not is
besides the point. They look and feel like they're operating in 2007
which means they're instantly more relevant to anyone building a site
today.

Just my 2p.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Woods
Sent: 22 May 2007 18:15
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'

I get the feeling Nielson is deliberately provocative for the sake of it
sometimes (although if it sparks discussion in an area, then hell why
not).

I still think he needs to update his own web site though, it looks like
it's stuck in the 90s. I think I've said that before, too :/ 

> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Lockwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 22 May 2007 14:12
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'
> 
> Something that every web developer capable of writing their own name 
> without using Dreamweaver or Frontpage has been banging on about for 
> the last 15 years.  I don't see why Nielsen gets the credit for that 
> one.  :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rich.
> 
> On 5/22/07, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'Minimize the number of text fields in your interfaces down to the 
> > absolute minimum necessary.
> > Minimize the number of click/keystrokes/gestures necessary to 
> > accomplish actions in your interface.
> > Make your interface as responsive as possible - minimize
> the latency
> > of each and every action a user might take in your interface.'
> >
> > Something that Jakob Nielsen's been on about for about
> fifteen years,
> > methinks.
> >
> > www.useit.com
> >
> >
> > Brian Butterworth
> > www.ukfree.tv
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Cobb
> > > Sent: 22 May 2007 11:47
> > > To: Simon Cobb; backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good
> Accessible design'
> > >
> > > This was an interesting article on UI design.
> > >
> > > http://tantek.com/log/2007/02.html#d19t1813
> > >
> > >  It's from February so you may have already seen it. I found it 
> > > referenced on the codinghorror blog which also has an article in 
> > > praise of javascript
> > > (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000857.html)
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 17:05
> > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good
> Accessible design'
> > > >
> > > > You may also like to try this site, it has access to Google, 
> > > > Microsoft, Ask and NASA mapping and satellite photos...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.509979&lon=-0.226138&z=17.8&;
> > > > r=0&src=msl
> > > >
> > > > It is easily "iframed"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brian Butterworth
> > > > www.ukfree.tv
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason
> > > > Cartwright
> > > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 09:34
> > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good
> > > Accessible design'
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, javascript is required for the full, slick experience,
> > > > obviously.
> > > > > All parts of the site are still usable when JS is off (that I 
> > > > > can see), and seemingly entirely accessible via the keyboard.
> > > > >
> > > > > With JS on, the keys work in most browsers, although some
> > > > require you
> > > > > to have the map in focus.
> > > > >
> > > > >

RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'

[Simon Cobb]

This was an interesting article on UI design.

http://tantek.com/log/2007/02.html#d19t1813

 It's from February so you may have already seen it. I found it
referenced on the codinghorror blog which also has an article in praise
of javascript (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000857.html)

> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 16 May 2007 17:05
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'
> 
> You may also like to try this site, it has access to Google, 
> Microsoft, Ask and NASA mapping and satellite photos...
> 
> http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.509979&lon=-0.226138&z=17.8&;
> r=0&src=msl
> 
> It is easily "iframed"
>  
> 
> Brian Butterworth
> www.ukfree.tv
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason
> Cartwright
> > Sent: 16 May 2007 09:34
> > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'
> > 
> > Yes, javascript is required for the full, slick experience,
> obviously. 
> > All parts of the site are still usable when JS is off (that I can 
> > see), and seemingly entirely accessible via the keyboard.
> > 
> > With JS on, the keys work in most browsers, although some
> require you
> > to have the map in focus.
> > 
> > Of course Google Maps has a well documented API that could
> be used to
> > create uber-accessible versions for different needs - 
> > http://www.google.com/apis/maps/
> > 
> > J
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:''
> > "
> > Sent: 15 May 2007 21:32
> > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'
> > 
> > Jason & Stephen,
> > 
> > when javascript is disabled in Opera or Camino the message is:
> > Your web browser is not fully supported by Google Maps
> > 
> > I wonder is the code IE7 specific?
> > none of the keys work for me on os x
> > 
> > unless I'm missing something this hardly qualifies as accessible...
> > 
> > regards
> > 
> > Jonathan Chetwynd
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 15 May 2007, at 16:57, Jason Cartwright wrote:
> > 
> > Disable javascript. Everything works fine.
> > 
> > J
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:'' "
> > Sent: 15 May 2007 16:47
> > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design'
> > 
> > Richard,
> > 
> > how does one use http://maps.google.com/ via the keyboard?
> > 
> > cheers
> > 
> > Jonathan Chetwynd
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 15 May 2007, at 13:22, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> > 
> > This particular rant seems to be about useability rather than 
> > accessibility (although I appreciate the two are often closely 
> > related).  Much as I often loathe Nielsen's writing -
> Jason's right,
> > it's often all about Nielsen more than it is about any
> actual problems
> > - in this case he's got a point.  "Web 2.0" sites are often
> completely
> > unuseable - MySpace being a prime example, and Flickr
> (although it's
> > been a while since I tried to use it to post a few pics and it may 
> > well have improved) another.
> > 
> > Google Maps however, I'd hold up as a prime example of excellent 
> > intuitive design and useability.
> > 
> > Just as the phrase "Web 2.0" means different things to all
> people (I
> > avoid it if at all possible as I feel it just makes the user sound 
> > like a buzzword spouting bandwagon-jumper who hasn't a clue
> what he's
> > actually saying  ;-) ), you can't tar all "Web 2.0" sites with the 
> > same brush.
> > 
> > Anyway, I've banged on far too long now, and this is what Nielsen 
> > wants - people to discuss HIM HIM HIM!!!  Frankly, the less
> I hear of
> > and from this tedious old bore, the happier I am.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Rich.
> > 
> > On 5/15/07, "~:'' "
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Jason & Gordon
> > >
> > > any good Accessible Web 2.0 websites you'd care to plug?
> > > or are you in a rush?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > > Jonathan Chetwynd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 May 2007, at 10:18, Jason Cartwright wrote:
> > >
> > > This is all my personal opinion, and I entirely disagree.
> > >
> > > Mr Nielsen has a history of spouting contrary opinions to court 
> > > controversy and gain publicity for himself and his company.
> > >
> > > "Web 2.0"[1] (for me at least) incorporates best practice 
> > > methodologies of developing to standards (and the consequences of 
> > > this, such as progressive enhancement etc) and "trusting
> > users as co-
> > > developers" [2].
> > > These core principals of "Web 2.0" encourage good design.
> > >
> > > As with any technology, "Web 2.0" will be misused - it's not the 
> > > technology's fault that this happens, it's the
> > designer/develo