Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Lloyd and everybody, I suppose that dirty tactics is one way of living in the world. Just because that method of doing business is favoured by some does not mean that every one must follow it to succeed. I still don't understand how we can keep our heads down and not say anything to anybody about what we do. If there was no advertising in any way associated with an Arden Anderson or a Gary Zimmer tour how does the word get around. These tours are successful because people have worked out how to create events. Do you think that the recent tour by Hugh would have been successful without the inspiration and support of everyone who worked very hard to put the tour together? I suppose that it all depends what skills each person has in their bag of tricks and how much passion they are prepared to expend to try to get something to happen. On our refrigerator we have a little frig magnet that says that 'A life lived without passion is a life half lived'. I am passionate about what I do, for me it is my 'raison d'etre'. You also are passionate about what you do about your farming and trying to find better ways to overcome problems. One of the problems is that we have chosen to work on and with the land, it defines our philosophical viewpoints. To this extent we may tend to not be as entrepreneurial as a businessman who could take any one of our ideas and methods and make a business out of them. To get past the one man band, (if we should want to), requires the input of many different skills. It is my passion which is leading me along the path of seeing if I have entrepreneurial skills as well as problem solving skills. How is the crop planting going at Narrandera? Kind regards James Hedley. - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Dear James, et. al., . Both are studying their asses off learning all they can as fast as they can. It won't be that much longer and they won't need me any more. It gives me a good feeling. I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the idea of going head to head in the marketplace with the chemical ag boys. They've got hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars worth of muscle to lean on us with, and we are still in the pusilanimous thousands and tens of thousands. So I think we'd better keep our heads down a bit longer and not get them to take us seriously. Dear Hugh - James I have a friend who was a farmer until two years ago when he sold out to go a new direction selling foliar fertiliser. He and I and a couple of other guys started out several years ago using this hotmix trace element foliar and seed treatment brew - I was the first in this area and encouraged the others based on results I'd seen. It was a good first step away from conventional thinking and the company behind it is using Albrecht logic in their approach to fertilising and they are getting good results. Recently these guys have moved into viticulture and have managed to snare a couple of the big names in our area simply by getting better quality grapes - and boy has that annoyed the conventional agronomy people - my mate has had these company guys following him - waiting a couple of hours after he leaves the client farm then going in to badmouth all the information he gave the farmer. One company has devised a contract that they have fooled some farmers into signing - a combination of cheap finance for purchases and low fees for crop monitoring with a sneaky little clause that says that the farmer agrees not to use anything not recommended and sold by that company - my mate has hardly started but he's made the opposition mad as hell already - you can bet they will have a lot of dirty tricks left yet - up to and including direct sabotage of some of his clients crops if thats what it takes. He could not possibly have done them serious damage yet but they see a clear threat and are acting accordingly, this is only LOCAL sales companies yet - not the big boys! I think Hugh is entirely correct to say keep our heads down and not make them take us seriously - there are a lot of receptive people out there - anybody doing cell grazing is a prospect - farmers are turning up in droves to eco farmer seminars, phil wheeler , arden andersen, gary zimmer, we could probably do a repeat of Hugh's tour next year and get the same sort of attendance as recently - they're out there, some of em are ready and some not. Cheers all, Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Hugh and List members, That there are any people who buy radionic instruments and don't use them for whatever reason is a real shame. Even the most basic radionic instrument can make such dramatic changes in the health of people, animals and plants. From my observations it takes a quantum leap in faith to even go from Dowsing to the most simple radionics. You virtually have to hold them by the hand and mentor them through the whole implementation process. I have a client who has embraced radionics completely in his piggery, and is probably one of the few in the pig industry at the moment who is making a profit. Around him live a group of people who like to think of themselves as trendy and New Age. They consider my client weird because he dowses, uses pyramid broadcasters and radionics. But even he wont take his ideas to other pig producers around the place because of peer criticism. He doesn't do what they do. Yet by whatever criteria you would view this farm it is impressive. The carrying capacity is always 2 to 3 times the surrounding country. The fences are all new, with a long new gravel driveway. His wife had to go out to work in the nearby town to help keep the farm going, now there is enough money for hert to stay home and help around the farm. So more gets done easier with an extra pair of hands.There are no problems with parasites or blowflies in the sheep. All stock are treated for worms and parasites from the shearing shed by using radionic broadcast. The serrated tussock that plagues all of the surrounding hills are gradually coming under control, without using noxious chemicals. He doesn't have to buy chemicals,vaccines or fertilisers. When you drive along the ridge road you can see where his place is because it is green all over. All surrounding farms were dust bowls, yet when shown how he does it they say 'I wouldn't do that. It is too weird'. Rationalism is not going to get someone to consider radionics. It is emotion that sells products. Emotions like pride or having the best farm in the district. The whole angle of sustainability in farming brings out a whole new group of emotions. How about making the farm a more safe working environment. What about the health of wife and kids. Farmers know now the effects of the chemicals that they use. The market for radionics is within the top 3% of primary producers. Out of that 3% it is those that are the most innovative and are prepared to try out new ideas who need to be targeted. Having said that the problem then becomes how do we get to those people. Promoting and marketing Agricultural Radionics is really no different to marketing anything else. The person who understands radionics is usually not the same person who can go out and market it. Radionics is like any other product, you have to get your marketing right. The market for radionics is only partially in the organic / BD network. Mainstream farmers are the group to target. If we don't target mainstream farmers we marginalise ourselves to being a small companies in a fringe industry. As radionic practitioners we need to show that our products work and back that up by constant research and being up front and being seen by the people who could use our expertise. Radionics companies of the future will have a whole catalogue of instruments, field broadcasters and techniques suitable for any job, with practitioners skilled in their use, backed up by a solid marketing arm. In other words we will compete for a share of the market like anyone else has to. It is a long way from starting with a good idea to making it an accepted method.Not many people had heard of the internet a few years ago yet it has spawned a whole industry based on innovation. Unless we are innovative and market to the customers needs there never will be a future for radionics. Just a few ideas to start the ball rolling. James Hedley - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:40 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Dear James, Your words do not fall on deaf ears. I'd agree that John Pannan would be very concerned about people buying instruments from him and then not using them. He ought to be part of this discussion I think, So I want to forward this letter of yours and some of the other stuff to him. One in ten was a figure I pulled out of the air and Gil gave me some assent that he thought people got instruments and then found themselves at a loss to properly use them. I've read Gil's explanation, and for the most part I'd agree, particularly about the accuracy of dowsing and the degree of self-mastery accurate dowsing implies. I don't know of any way one can learn this easily. Some are already that far along in mastering self that their dowsing is quite accurate. Some, like my colleague, Lorraine, are constantly refining and focusing their intent
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
James Hedly writes: Rationalism is not going to get someone to consider radionics. It is emotion that sells products. Emotions like pride or having the best farm in the district. The whole angle of sustainability in farming brings out a whole new group of emotions. How about making the farm a more safe working environment. What about the health of wife and kids. Farmers know now the effects of the chemicals that they use. The market for radionics is within the top 3% of primary producers. Out of that 3% it is those that are the most innovative and are prepared to try out new ideas who need to be targeted. Having said that the problem then becomes how do we get to those people. Promoting and marketing Agricultural Radionics is really no different to marketing anything else. Dear James, et. al., Too right, mate. But I did grow up in advertising, and I've studied advertising psychology a bit even though I never went into it. My observation has been that the things that usually get the most advertising are the things that are worse than worthless, like beer, cigarettes and bad politicians. Well, beer isn't so bad, but it is the worst beers that get the most advertising. Anyway as you can imagine I've not beet too keen on adverts. Mostly we've kept our heads down by looking to the organic and sustainable bunch for disseminating what we know. But, for example, two of the brightest stars amongst my clients--one is a large scale vegetable grower in Canada, another is a dairyman in Mexico--are coming from the conventional mindset. They both took to dowsing like swans to a lake, both have radionic instruments, both call or e-mail me a couple times a week for further mentoring, both are getting results that have them real excited. The one in Canada has a Kelly and a one card Malcolm Rae instrument. The one in Mexico has a four card Rae instrument. Neither one has more than a rudimentary idea of what they can do with them, but for starts they are learning how to make their own reagents for their field broadcasters and they are learning how to regenerate their atmosphere so it rains once again--and these uses alone have more than paid for their equipment in their first year. Granted they are both farming on a large enough scale--hundreds of acres--that a little improvement means a lot of dollars. I turn them on to everything good that I know about. Both are making compost tea now, for example. Both have given up chemical nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers. The one in Canada is resolved this year to discontinue all toxic sprays because he saw very clearly last year that they did more damage than good, plus they affected his health as well. Both had their best year ever last year in terms of income. Both are studying their asses off learning all they can as fast as they can. It won't be that much longer and they won't need me any more. It gives me a good feeling. I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the idea of going head to head in the marketplace with the chemical ag boys. They've got hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars worth of muscle to lean on us with, and we are still in the pusilanimous thousands and tens of thousands. So I think we'd better keep our heads down a bit longer and not get them to take us seriously. What I like particularly well about Australia is it isn't nearly so dismal an atmosphere in this regard as the states. I don't think the chemical industry has farmers nearly so much in their grip in Australia--for one thing Australian farmers are working with a much lower budget in most cases. So I've more hope for waking up conventional farmers in Australia than here in the US at present. Note that two of my brightest clients were conventional but were not in the US. Well, you said something earlier about how we need to find out what the farmers perceive as their needs and address THAT. In the marketplace that is known as market research. And you're correct. That's how it is done. Now, what can we do in terms of market research? For starters we can be sure a lot of farmers want a magic potion and not something they have to think about. And we aren't selling that. So we can only market research what we have to offer. But even so, . . . I hooked up with these two conventional guys because they were wanting to get out of conventional and do something different and I happened to catch their attention in their early exploration of alternatives. That probably was just dumb luck. But it also means there must be a LOT of people looking for some way out of conventional. And if my experience is any indication radionics/biodynamics is the quickest, easiest way out that there is. These guys both went a LONG ways in one year and will complete their transition off of chemical inputs in this, their second year--to the point they will no longer be going off their farms for either nitrogen or phosphorus, to say nothing of cutting out all toxics. AND they've both saved a bundle on irrigation.
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear James, et. al., . Both are studying their asses off learning all they can as fast as they can. It won't be that much longer and they won't need me any more. It gives me a good feeling. I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the idea of going head to head in the marketplace with the chemical ag boys. They've got hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars worth of muscle to lean on us with, and we are still in the pusilanimous thousands and tens of thousands. So I think we'd better keep our heads down a bit longer and not get them to take us seriously. Dear Hugh - James I have a friend who was a farmer until two years ago when he sold out to go a new direction selling foliar fertiliser. He and I and a couple of other guys started out several years ago using this hotmix trace element foliar and seed treatment brew - I was the first in this area and encouraged the others based on results I'd seen. It was a good first step away from conventional thinking and the company behind it is using Albrecht logic in their approach to fertilising and they are getting good results. Recently these guys have moved into viticulture and have managed to snare a couple of the big names in our area simply by getting better quality grapes - and boy has that annoyed the conventional agronomy people - my mate has had these company guys following him - waiting a couple of hours after he leaves the client farm then going in to badmouth all the information he gave the farmer. One company has devised a contract that they have fooled some farmers into signing - a combination of cheap finance for purchases and low fees for crop monitoring with a sneaky little clause that says that the farmer agrees not to use anything not recommended and sold by that company - my mate has hardly started but he's made the opposition mad as hell already - you can bet they will have a lot of dirty tricks left yet - up to and including direct sabotage of some of his clients crops if thats what it takes. He could not possibly have done them serious damage yet but they see a clear threat and are acting accordingly, this is only LOCAL sales companies yet - not the big boys! I think Hugh is entirely correct to say keep our heads down and not make them take us seriously - there are a lot of receptive people out there - anybody doing cell grazing is a prospect - farmers are turning up in droves to eco farmer seminars, phil wheeler , arden andersen, gary zimmer, we could probably do a repeat of Hugh's tour next year and get the same sort of attendance as recently - they're out there, some of em are ready and some not. Cheers all, Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
To Lloyd Charles , please ask the guys with the foliar sprays to contact me and we may be able to help them in this area - Hunter valley thanks Ross McDonald - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Dear James, et. al., . Both are studying their asses off learning all they can as fast as they can. It won't be that much longer and they won't need me any more. It gives me a good feeling. I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the idea of going head to head in the marketplace with the chemical ag boys. They've got hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars worth of muscle to lean on us with, and we are still in the pusilanimous thousands and tens of thousands. So I think we'd better keep our heads down a bit longer and not get them to take us seriously. Dear Hugh - James I have a friend who was a farmer until two years ago when he sold out to go a new direction selling foliar fertiliser. He and I and a couple of other guys started out several years ago using this hotmix trace element foliar and seed treatment brew - I was the first in this area and encouraged the others based on results I'd seen. It was a good first step away from conventional thinking and the company behind it is using Albrecht logic in their approach to fertilising and they are getting good results. Recently these guys have moved into viticulture and have managed to snare a couple of the big names in our area simply by getting better quality grapes - and boy has that annoyed the conventional agronomy people - my mate has had these company guys following him - waiting a couple of hours after he leaves the client farm then going in to badmouth all the information he gave the farmer. One company has devised a contract that they have fooled some farmers into signing - a combination of cheap finance for purchases and low fees for crop monitoring with a sneaky little clause that says that the farmer agrees not to use anything not recommended and sold by that company - my mate has hardly started but he's made the opposition mad as hell already - you can bet they will have a lot of dirty tricks left yet - up to and including direct sabotage of some of his clients crops if thats what it takes. He could not possibly have done them serious damage yet but they see a clear threat and are acting accordingly, this is only LOCAL sales companies yet - not the big boys! I think Hugh is entirely correct to say keep our heads down and not make them take us seriously - there are a lot of receptive people out there - anybody doing cell grazing is a prospect - farmers are turning up in droves to eco farmer seminars, phil wheeler , arden andersen, gary zimmer, we could probably do a repeat of Hugh's tour next year and get the same sort of attendance as recently - they're out there, some of em are ready and some not. Cheers all, Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Ross McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? To Lloyd Charles , please ask the guys with the foliar sprays to contact me and we may be able to help them in this area - Hunter valley thanks Ross McDonald Hi Ross More info please - are you an interested grower - possible reseller - winemaker ? I am happy to pass your message along just need a little direction so I know I am not putting my foot in something warm green and smelly. cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Lloyd, I am a grape grower and sell wine under my Macquariedale label both here in Oz and export a little to Canada and USA. I am persuing the BD principles in grape growing at this stage and will then move to the wine making aspects. regards Ross - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? - Original Message - From: Ross McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? To Lloyd Charles , please ask the guys with the foliar sprays to contact me and we may be able to help them in this area - Hunter valley thanks Ross McDonald Hi Ross More info please - are you an interested grower - possible reseller - winemaker ? I am happy to pass your message along just need a little direction so I know I am not putting my foot in something warm green and smelly. cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Hi! Lloyd, Hugh, James and the list. I am puzzled at the suggestion of advertising. Advertising is like evangelism in religion. Only those who have something they do not believe in, need to convince others about it. Just as the person who is content with his belief structure, rarely feels the need to talk of it, uninvited, to others, the person with fully firing agricultural system will soon attract the interest of others. My work in revegetation has resulted in countless millions of trees in the ground. I have never knocked on a door and tried to sell a tree. I also question the idea of going Head to Head with anyone over Radionics/ Quantum Ag. Do you want to spent much energy trying to disprove something you do not believe in? By doing that, you only strengthen the resolve of those who promote them. In straight numbers, we are unlikely to be spectacular, as they are thrashing the guts out of the land. It is only the unbiased examination of the end product and the paddock that will show what we are on about. I do not think a chemical company is going to agree to a taste test! We are offering something which is getting close to sustainable. We are offering a better end product with reduced imputes, usually with a better yield ratio, and higher unit price, if lessor total crop in the short term. We offer a replicatable system that will produce over long periods with a net improvement of the land. Radionic Agriculture is solidly over fifty years old. I know one of those who make the first experiments in the early nineteen fifties and have specifically Ag. Instruments from 1954. I have eaten vegetables from land treated Radionicly for 45 years. The quality was as one would expect, absolutely superb. As far as I could see, all the formally trained Radionic Practitioners in the UK, kept their heads down, simply because all had all the clients they could reasonably care for and most had long waiting lists. They are highly respected and protected by a code of conduct, accreditation and a professional body. We do not have a problem finding clients, we have a problem find people suitable to train as practitioners. By this I mean practitioners who set them selves up as professionals. I have now worries about those who are working on their own patch, but I am most concern as soon as anyone proclaims them selves as a professional practitioner. Out side the US there have been three court cases that have been very harmful to Radionics and essentially ruined these at the receiving end. In parts of the US it is illegal, so I assume no one makes a public proclamation. I am more interested in supporting those who want to learn to work initially on their own patch and to do that successfully through several seasons, while they learn and gain conference. Let's try and pick up some of those who have un-used instruments and do something about giving them the conference to experiment on their own patch, as they learn. Gil
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Ross McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Lloyd, I am a grape grower and sell wine under my Macquariedale label both here in Oz and export a little to Canada and USA. I am persuing the BD principles in grape growing at this stage and will then move to the wine making aspects. regards Ross Hi Ross contact Murray Stivens (pronounced Styvens) phone 0269 536274 fax0269 536376 He will be in the lower hunter (cessnock area) around 24th april.
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd be including David von Pein and Des Whatley in on this discussion but I don't have their e-mail. Anyone help with this? Best, Hugh Hi Hugh Last time i was in contact with David he was not on email . He can be contacted indirectly through his web site which goes to a friend of his who faxes messages to his home. The Meter Man - David von Pein http://www.themeterman.com.au Cheers Tony R Tony, Thanks for this. The web site works. Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Hugh. Lloyd and James. On the information circulating in Radionic Circles, the figure of some where around the area of ten idyll instruments for every one in use, would be close to the mark. One of the reasons for this is that Radionic Instruments are very specialized beasties. There is no such thing as a universal instrument and it is very easy to buy an instrument quite un-suited to your intended use. This quickly leads to discouragement, unless there is some form of ongoing support. This is seldom available from instrument builders, who quickly loose interest once the cheque has been cashed. I say this in general terms, not aimed at any specific type of instrument. The other problem is the would be Radionic Practitioner. While I believe it is possible teach nearly anyone to dowse, I believe that only a small percentage will attain a worthwhile level of accuracy without a considerable amount of practice. This, for most, is at least many tens of hours over at least weeks and more likely months, rather than some tens of minutes over a weekend workshop. As the Radionic Process is largely a mental process of the Practitioner, the Practitioner must be confident in their dowsing as well as very accurate. The moment we allow self doubt to enter our mental process, we blow the result. Obviously the quality of the resulting Radionic process can be no better than the dowsing that is part of it. I have a file of close to an inch thick of letters from people wanting quick fix tuition in strange and obscure instruments or to learn the most basic information about them. Others want to sell these treasures and for reasons I do not understand, expect to get their purchase price back, even when they have demonstrated the beastie will not do as they wish it would. Anyone with lots of money to waste, I could direct you to lots unused and mainly unusable instruments. A lot of these are improved instruments. By that I mean they are not built by or at least designed by an established practitioner. For reasons unknown to me, there are gadget builders, who without learning Radionics, pull an instrument or three apart and then start building improvements. The practitioner must also be totally together. Anyone going through personal drama, major ill health, using some types of prescription drugs or affected by recreationals, should refrain from working in these sort of areas until they have their life together again. I believe that Hugh can best be utilized to impart his advanced knowledge and ongoing research. He is a very busy man and it is a sacrifice on his part to travel to the antipodes. I do not think that access to his workshops should be limited to those have the knowledge to put his work into practice, but that provision should be made to provide what ever level of training required by his students. For some it will be a bit of hand holding while they gain confidence in Dowsing. Others will need help to build and position Field Broadcasters or have this done for them. Still others, a small proportion, will see the potential of Radionics and want to study it in depth. I would like to think there would also be a small number who are on top of all this and interested in research. Some of the areas needing exploration are Broadcasters to cover larger areas, such as whole cattle stations, and the specialised needs of our particular soils and very arid climate. Like BD, much of the earlier work was done in quite different soil and climate. It would also be good to have some level of communication of people dabbling in Radionics in a particular bioregion, to avoid the wide broadcast of conflicting or competing energies. Once we go beyond our own boundary we need to consider all within the target area. I get really concerned about the prospect of more than one person deciding to flush the Murray Darling River system and starting in an unco-ordinated manner at different parts of the system and bringing about sizable falls that later meet in narrow parts of the system I also think it would be a good idea if as many attendees as possible be offered dowsing tuition, before the workshops, hopefully some time beforehand to allow practice. If they have got a handle on that, it is pretty easy for Hugh or who ever to convert them to the exact method he prefers on the day. Gil James Hedley wrote: Dear Lloyd, Hugh, Gil and everybody, I query the arbitrary figure of 10:1 of unused radionic instruments. That may be so with some people who have graduated through several instruments, however I don't agree that as a general rule this would be correct. I am sure that John Pannan would be horrified if you told him that only 1 in 10 radionic instruments that were sold by him were not used If this assumption is the basis of you running a series of workshops in
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] to discuss it. Kind regards James Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 20:57:36 +1030 From: Gil Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Hugh. Lloyd and James. On the information circulating in Radionic Circles, the figure of some where around the area of ten idyll instruments for every one in use, would be close to the mark. One of the reasons for this is that Radionic Instruments are very specialized beasties. There is no such thing as a universal instrument and it is very easy to buy an instrument quite un-suited to your intended use. This quickly leads to discouragement, unless there is some form of ongoing support. This is seldom available from instrument builders, who quickly loose interest once the cheque has been cashed. I say this in general terms, not aimed at any specific type of instrument. The other problem is the would be Radionic Practitioner. While I believe it is possible teach nearly anyone to dowse, I believe that only a small percentage will attain a worthwhile level of accuracy without a considerable amount of practice. This, for most, is at least many tens of hours over at least weeks and more likely months, rather than some tens of minutes over a weekend workshop. As the Radionic Process is largely a mental process of the Practitioner, the Practitioner must be confident in their dowsing as well as very accurate. The moment we allow self doubt to enter our mental process, we blow the result. Obviously the quality of the resulting Radionic process can be no better than the dowsing that is part of it. I have a file of close to an inch thick of letters from people wanting quick fix tuition in strange and obscure instruments or to learn the most basic information about them. Others want to sell these treasures and for reasons I do not understand, expect to get their purchase price back, even when they have demonstrated the beastie will not do as they wish it would. Anyone with lots of money to waste, I could direct you to lots unused and mainly unusable instruments. A lot of these are improved instruments. By that I mean they are not built by or at least designed by an established practitioner. For reasons unknown to me, there are gadget builders, who without learning Radionics, pull an instrument or three apart and then start building improvements. The practitioner must also be totally together. Anyone going through personal drama, major ill health, using some types of prescription drugs or affected by recreationals, should refrain from working in these sort of areas until they have their life together again. I believe that Hugh can best be utilized to impart his advanced knowledge and ongoing research. He is a very busy man and it is a sacrifice on his part to travel to the antipodes. I do not think that access to his workshops should be limited to those have the knowledge to put his work into practice, but that provision should be made to provide what ever level of training required by his students. For some it will be a bit of hand holding while they gain confidence in Dowsing. Others will need help to build and position Field Broadcasters or have this done for them. Still others, a small proportion, will see the potential of Radionics and want to study it in depth. I would like to think there would also be a small number who are on top of all this and interested in research. Some of the areas needing exploration are Broadcasters to cover larger areas, such as whole cattle stations, and the specialised needs of our particular soils and very arid climate. Like BD, much of the earlier work was done in quite different soil and climate. It would also be good to have some level of communication of people dabbling in Radionics in a particular bioregion, to avoid the wide broadcast of conflicting or competing energies. Once we go beyond our own boundary we need to consider all within the target area. I get really concerned about the prospect of more than one person deciding to flush the Murray Darling River system and starting in an unco-ordinated manner at different parts of the system and bringing about sizable falls that later meet in narrow parts of the system I also think it would be a good idea if as many attendees as possible be offered dowsing tuition, before the workshops, hopefully some time beforehand to allow practice. If they have got a handle on that, it is pretty easy for Hugh or who ever to convert them to the exact method he prefers on the day. Gil James Hedley wrote: Dear Lloyd, Hugh, Gil and everybody, I query the arbitrary figure of 10:1 of unused radionic instruments. That may be so with some people who have graduated through several instruments, however I don't agree that as a general
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd be including David von Pein and Des Whatley in on this discussion but I don't have their e-mail. Anyone help with this? Best, Hugh Hi Hugh Last time i was in contact with David he was not on email . He can be contacted indirectly through his web site which goes to a friend of his who faxes messages to his home. The Meter Man - David von Pein http://www.themeterman.com.au Cheers Tony R
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd be including David von Pein and Des Whatley in on this discussion but I don't have their e-mail. Anyone help with this? Best, Hugh Hi Hugh Last time i was in contact with David he was not on email . He can be contacted indirectly through his web site which goes to a friend of his who faxes messages to his home. The Meter Man - David von Pein http://www.themeterman.com.au Cheers Tony R Tony, Thanks. Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Lloyd, Hugh, Gil and everybody, I query the arbitrary figure of 10:1 of unused radionic instruments. That may be so with some people who have graduated through several instruments, however I don't agree that as a general rule this would be correct. I am sure that John Pannan would be horrified if you told him that only 1 in 10 radionic instruments that were sold by him were not used If this assumption is the basis of you running a series of workshops in Australia I suspect that you may wind up with egg on the face because the market has been wrongly read. Maybe a survey from a complete mail out from BACA database would confirm whether the figures are correct. My estimate is that the figure may be closer to 1 to 2% based on attendances at workshops where someone has asked how to use a certain radionic instrument which they are having trouble using. Most people graduate from dowsing to radionics and I don't see that too many people would buy a radionic instrument just on spec. They mostly attend a workshop where they are introduced to the concept of radionics, go home and think about it and then maybe buy an instrument. My guess is that those who attended the last series of workshops are the basis of the next series of workshops. The secret of the next workshops is going to be what would those who attended want to learn that would induce them to attend another series? Lloyd has intimated that he would be prepared to host a regional dowsing workshop somewhere in his area, I already run dowsing and radionic workshops which if anyone is interested in attending contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] to discuss it. Kind regards James - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gil Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? Dear Lloyd, I know I'm a bit slow responding, but I DO really want to do this. I've bounced this off both Gil Robertson and Phil Wheeler and they both estimate there must be somewhere 10 radionic instruments in people's closets in Australia for every one that is in use. That is a serious shortcoming looking for a solution. I'd like to see all those instruments put to use, and how do we get there? David von Pein and Des Whatley want me up in Queensland in August after the IQOC (Inaugeral Queensland Organic Conference) which I am committed to as a speaker. I don't have their e-mail addresses, though you may have. Cheryl is saying something about the annual meeting of the BD Association down in NSW (perhaps in Albury) somewhere during that time period from mid July to mid August. I'd like to coordinate dates with her, though I realize she will have her hands full with that gala event. Best, Hugh Hugh wrote Right now Im faced with a conumdrum. At Albury folks were presented with a procedure in its full-blown oiperation using both card instruments and dial instruments. They saw the treatments get set up and turned on and maybe they saw when they were turned off That's the shape those who attended Aulbury and the other workshops are presently in. They saw the operation, but now they need a couple of days real hands on with coaching to be able to go home and do this work. And there's several stages where they need coaching. Probably the dowsing is the most critical as almost anyone can turn a dial and select a card or remedy. The dowsing, of course, will take time to build up confidence and accuracy. But a lot of them need to get some real hands-on practice with a coach first. That's the need--to give some real hands-on coaching, practical stuff where everyone brings an instrument and we pair off and practice. I'll see what I can do about coming up with a set of exercises. Lorraine Cahill, who works with me here at UAI, would be good at this. It doesn't matter too much what kind of instrument, we can work with it. Dear Hugh Maybe we could get some local groups going with this. If Lorraine could work up a set of excercises so we're all going in the same direction, we should be able to yard up some coaches to take groups of say twenty and just work on the dowsing side - its mainly a practice and confidence thing - questioning technique is a problem for a lot of people too. I feel confident enough with my pendulum to take a group and I'm sure we could find others to do so in the other regions but I think this needs some direction. When you come out in July/August how much time will you have available for possibly running smaller regional workshops? Cheers Lloyd Charles Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Lloyd, I know I'm a bit slow responding, but I DO really want to do this. I've bounced this off both Gil Robertson and Phil Wheeler and they both estimate there must be somewhere 10 radionic instruments in people's closets in Australia for every one that is in use. That is a serious shortcoming looking for a solution. I'd like to see all those instruments put to use, and how do we get there? David von Pein and Des Whatley want me up in Queensland in August after the IQOC (Inaugeral Queensland Organic Conference) which I am committed to as a speaker. I don't have their e-mail addresses, though you may have. Cheryl is saying something about the annual meeting of the BD Association down in NSW (perhaps in Albury) somewhere during that time period from mid July to mid August. I'd like to coordinate dates with her, though I realize she will have her hands full with that gala event. Best, Hugh Hugh wrote Right now Im faced with a conumdrum. At Albury folks were presented with a procedure in its full-blown oiperation using both card instruments and dial instruments. They saw the treatments get set up and turned on and maybe they saw when they were turned off That's the shape those who attended Aulbury and the other workshops are presently in. They saw the operation, but now they need a couple of days real hands on with coaching to be able to go home and do this work. And there's several stages where they need coaching. Probably the dowsing is the most critical as almost anyone can turn a dial and select a card or remedy. The dowsing, of course, will take time to build up confidence and accuracy. But a lot of them need to get some real hands-on practice with a coach first. That's the need--to give some real hands-on coaching, practical stuff where everyone brings an instrument and we pair off and practice. I'll see what I can do about coming up with a set of exercises. Lorraine Cahill, who works with me here at UAI, would be good at this. It doesn't matter too much what kind of instrument, we can work with it. Dear Hugh Maybe we could get some local groups going with this. If Lorraine could work up a set of excercises so we're all going in the same direction, we should be able to yard up some coaches to take groups of say twenty and just work on the dowsing side - its mainly a practice and confidence thing - questioning technique is a problem for a lot of people too. I feel confident enough with my pendulum to take a group and I'm sure we could find others to do so in the other regions but I think this needs some direction. When you come out in July/August how much time will you have available for possibly running smaller regional workshops? Cheers Lloyd Charles Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Lloyd, You raise some good points. So it was extremely lucky that the burned areas did not receive any downpours, eh? It seems that may written intention, used with ALL treatments by both Peter and myself, was this: If it be Thy will, let the powers of nature converge to bring in beneficial energies and to transform any detrimental energies into beneficial ones within the boundaries as marked for now and in the future for as long as is appropriate. Amen. This is pretty standard and it covers a multitude of possibilities to sin that might otherwise lead to grief. If it kept the mountains around Albury from getting deluged, so be it. In order to get those gentle rains you speak of you can write another intent card to go with that one that asks for gentle falls of rain to germinate some ground cover and stabilise the soil before any major rainfall rips it to shreds. And you're right that it is customary to use some version of For the benefit of all and the detriment of none. I left it off for brevity and because I interpret the b it about beneficial energies and transforming detrimental energies as covering that base. But you bring up something that is of overarching importance. Using radionics requires a purity of heartfelt intention, and an open-handed blessing of all, that sets the stage for getting results. To do it for narrow, selfish ends to ANYone's detriment is disempowering and usually it won't work. This is not to say you couldn't snip out GW's picture and treat him on necrosis in the heart muscle and lace the treatment with a slug of strychnine. You certainly could. But what actual good would it do? If you knew his real significance, The Man Who Polarized the World into Peace by Trying To Rule It you would applaud his performance as a class act, no matter the degree to which he is identified with what he is doing and has no external view on himself.. If you tried such a thing, who would most likely visit the mortician's slab would be you. Pure backfire, and not rare, either. In fact, by doing what he is doing with such arrogant self-assurance, he is waking up the very people he caught up in unconscious, knee-jerk reaction with 9 11 Best, Hugh Dear Hugh, Tobias is correct about the rain around Albury, we had good rain at our farm (almost five inches) and there has been from two inches up to ten or so as you travel north from us into SE queensland, most of the eastern side of the wheat belt and into the tablelands had useful to good falls and most of the coastal strip from Victorian border to well up into queensland. The inland areas - western NSW and Queensland missed out and that is a large area of country - we had a not so subtle reminder of it yesterday - 40+ mph NW winds carrying red dust all day when the wind eased and turned south west last night we got visibility reduced to about 80 yards and quite a bit of fallout. The rain petered out as you got closer to Albury - most farmers around there are probably not all that happy. However there are a few things to consider. 1. There is several million acres of the alpine country and surrounding forest areas burnt to a cinder - mostly in an arc around the east and south east of Albury, probably the most damaging wild fires we have had since white settlement. 2. much of this damage is within the catchment of the hume dam and a lot of the rest is catchment for the snowy mountains hydro scheme 3. If the Albury area and east into the mountains had recieved the same amount and like manner of rain that we got on our farm, it would have been a disaster of mammoth proportions , the Hume dam would now be half full of ash, mud and the remains of dead things, damage to infrastructure in the high country would be a huge mess - what that country most desperately needs is several light gentle falls of rain to germinate some ground cover and stabilise the soil before any major rainfall rips it to shreds. 4. When we do these radionic treatments we ask ''for the good of all and to the detriment of no one'' or something of similar meaning - do we interpret this as ''for the greater good'' Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Hugh You may have guessed there was more intended in my last post - I hit send instead of save - at any rate most of what I meant to say seems to have come across. Thanks for your thoughts. I have strong opinions on the way the high country is being, and should be managed, (mismanaged). I've spent a lot of time up there since I was a kid and my family has close connections with people that lived and worked there way back before it was turned into an incendiary device (national park). Educated people would not agree with me but they dont know the land over a long period and most of them have motives that relate more to politics than anything else. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will be pleased to discuss it with you. Hugh's techniques cannot be blamed for it not raining in Albury. There is a structural energy problem there. The same problem applies to Colorado and many areas around the world. After the Toowoomba workshop coastal areas had 18 inches in the next week. Coffs Harbour resulted in heavy rain and now above average rainfall. After returning from Albury and using the broadcasting of potentised sea water 12 inches of rain mostly in the area being broadcast to. Areas off the map have had 3 or 4 inches. To successfully treat the atmosphere it is necessary to generate negative ions to overcome the effect of the positive ions. other trials have indicated that if you change the polarity of the soil that the suite of weeds will change and insects will move out. This is a subject for another post as it is after midnight now. James Hedley Radiasesthesia and Radionic Analysis Radionic Insect and Parasite control Bioethical Agriculture Consultant - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose? - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Austr. Workshop/ What was the purpose? Dear Hugh, Tobias is correct about the rain around Albury, we had good rain at our farm (almost five inches) and there has been from two inches up to ten or so as you travel north from us into SE queensland, most of the eastern side of the wheat belt and into the tablelands had useful to good falls and most of the coastal strip from Victorian border to well up into queensland. The inland areas - western NSW and Queensland missed out and that is a large area of country - we had a not so subtle reminder of it yesterday - 40+ mph NW winds carrying red dust all day when the wind eased and turned south west last night we got visibility reduced to about 80 yards and quite a bit of fallout. The rain petered out as you got closer to Albury - most farmers around there are probably not all that happy. However there are a few things to consider. 1. There is several million acres of the alpine country and surrounding forest areas burnt to a cinder - mostly in an arc around the east and south east of Albury, probably the most damaging wild fires we have had since white settlement. 2. much of this damage is within the catchment of the hume dam and a lot of the rest is catchment for the snowy mountains hydro scheme 3. If the Albury area and east into the mountains had recieved the same amount and like manner of rain that we got on our farm, it would have been a disaster of mammoth proportions , the Hume dam would now be half full of ash, mud and the remains of dead things, damage to infrastructure in the high country would be a huge mess - what that country most desperately needs is several light gentle falls of rain to germinate some ground cover and stabilise the soil before any major rainfall rips it to shreds. 4. When we do these radionic treatments we ask ''for the good of all and to the detriment of no one'' or something of similar meaning - do we interpret this as ''for the greater good''
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Dear Hugh You may have guessed there was more intended in my last post - I hit send instead of save - at any rate most of what I meant to say seems to have come across. Thanks for your thoughts. I have strong opinions on the way the high country is being, and should be managed, (mismanaged). I've spent a lot of time up there since I was a kid and my family has close connections with people that lived and worked there way back before it was turned into an incendiary device (national park). Educated people would not agree with me but they dont know the land over a long period and most of them have motives that relate more to politics than anything else. Cheers Lloyd Charles Dear Lloyd, It is normal, or usual, for educated people to have vastly erroneous ideas about practical matters with which they have little experience. Yet, they THINK they know so much. I guess I can say this as a person of extensive education who has no degrees whatever and has learned a great deal of what I know from actual experience. And yet I too fall into the common trap from time to time, thinking I know something when I'm way off the beam. Truth is, though, that had I pursued degree programs to get the kind of education I have, I would have had to spend so much time in classrooms and labs that I wouldn't have had much time for such experiences as building highway bridges, cooking on oil rigs, driving trucks, playing chess in the ghetto, working in a fish market, publishing newspapers or any of the other rich life experiences I've had that bring it all home and make it real. It seems like in school you only learn about things, while in life in general you have the opportunity to really learn things. As the anthroposophical joke goes, the end of the world was done and all of humanity was walking on the road of destiny to its celestial goal.. Lo, they came to a fork in the road. On the one hand the sign said HEAVEN, and on the other it said LECTURE ABOUT HEAVEN. The better part of humanity took off up the road to heaven, while the anthroposophists firmed their resolve and went up the other road to hear about heaven. Right now Im faced with a conumdrum. At Albury folks were presented with a procedure in its full-blown oiperation using both card instruments and dial instruments. They saw the treatments get set up and turned on and maybe they saw when they were turned off. It was like getting a bunch of lawn maintenance workers from the city and taking them through a milking parlor, maybe a double four herringbone with recessed floor. The feeders are automatic so they never even see them. The compressors are going, the cows are washed and milkers attached and the milk flows down the pipeline to the bulk tank. The observer gets some idea of how it all works, but you turn it over to them to do the next milking and they are utterly lost. They don't know to wash up the pipeline while they are getting the cows in the lot. They don't know how to switch over the pipes from the washer to the bulk tank and to put the filter sock on the insert in the pipeline. They don't know the first things about teat management, how to strip, what's going on with the feeding, when a cow is in heat, how to tell a cow's identity from glancing at her bag, the whole schmear. What each would need so you could turn your back on them and let them do the job is a couple day's coaching. That's the shape those who attended Aulbury and the other workshops are presently in. They saw the operation, but now they need a couple of days real hands on with coaching to be able to go home and do this work. And there's several stages where they need coaching. Probably the dowsing is the most critical as almost anyone can turn a dial and select a card or remedy. The dowsing, of course, will take time to build up confidence and accuracy. But a lot of them need to get some real hands-on practice with a coach first. That's the need--to give some real hands-on coaching, practical stuff where everyone brings an instrument and we pair off and practice. I'll see what I can do about coming up with a set of exercises. Lorraine Cahill, who works with me here at UAI, would be good at this. It doesn't matter too much what kind of instrument, we can work with it. Well, I must go for now. Had to interrupt my day to make a farmer up in Illinois a weed reagent. I carbonized his giant ragweed seed in a cast iron skillet and made a card from it. I've taken a strip of plastic and cut a slit in it where I can make the marks. I place it at the center of the card form, pinned to a board with a push pin and rotate and dowse for the sector marks. Giant ragweed came up with 6 sector marks. Then I made his reagent on a vial of placebo tablets with a little 8o proof organic vodka with the prue machine. Now I'm sending it out. I seldom make reagents like this. I leave it up to Lorraine, but she is attending a class in Pennsylvania this week and this farmer couldn't wait. See ya! Best, Hugh
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
Hugh wrote Right now Im faced with a conumdrum. At Albury folks were presented with a procedure in its full-blown oiperation using both card instruments and dial instruments. They saw the treatments get set up and turned on and maybe they saw when they were turned off That's the shape those who attended Aulbury and the other workshops are presently in. They saw the operation, but now they need a couple of days real hands on with coaching to be able to go home and do this work. And there's several stages where they need coaching. Probably the dowsing is the most critical as almost anyone can turn a dial and select a card or remedy. The dowsing, of course, will take time to build up confidence and accuracy. But a lot of them need to get some real hands-on practice with a coach first. That's the need--to give some real hands-on coaching, practical stuff where everyone brings an instrument and we pair off and practice. I'll see what I can do about coming up with a set of exercises. Lorraine Cahill, who works with me here at UAI, would be good at this. It doesn't matter too much what kind of instrument, we can work with it. Dear Hugh Maybe we could get some local groups going with this. If Lorraine could work up a set of excercises so we're all going in the same direction, we should be able to yard up some coaches to take groups of say twenty and just work on the dowsing side - its mainly a practice and confidence thing - questioning technique is a problem for a lot of people too. I feel confident enough with my pendulum to take a group and I'm sure we could find others to do so in the other regions but I think this needs some direction. When you come out in July/August how much time will you have available for possibly running smaller regional workshops? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Austr. Workshop/ Was there a higher purpose?
- Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Austr. Workshop/ What was the purpose? Dear Hugh, Tobias is correct about the rain around Albury, we had good rain at our farm (almost five inches) and there has been from two inches up to ten or so as you travel north from us into SE queensland, most of the eastern side of the wheat belt and into the tablelands had useful to good falls and most of the coastal strip from Victorian border to well up into queensland. The inland areas - western NSW and Queensland missed out and that is a large area of country - we had a not so subtle reminder of it yesterday - 40+ mph NW winds carrying red dust all day when the wind eased and turned south west last night we got visibility reduced to about 80 yards and quite a bit of fallout. The rain petered out as you got closer to Albury - most farmers around there are probably not all that happy. However there are a few things to consider. 1. There is several million acres of the alpine country and surrounding forest areas burnt to a cinder - mostly in an arc around the east and south east of Albury, probably the most damaging wild fires we have had since white settlement. 2. much of this damage is within the catchment of the hume dam and a lot of the rest is catchment for the snowy mountains hydro scheme 3. If the Albury area and east into the mountains had recieved the same amount and like manner of rain that we got on our farm, it would have been a disaster of mammoth proportions , the Hume dam would now be half full of ash, mud and the remains of dead things, damage to infrastructure in the high country would be a huge mess - what that country most desperately needs is several light gentle falls of rain to germinate some ground cover and stabilise the soil before any major rainfall rips it to shreds. 4. When we do these radionic treatments we ask ''for the good of all and to the detriment of no one'' or something of similar meaning - do we interpret this as ''for the greater good''
