Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 10:35 AM 2/8/03 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I have used mass transit here in Houston. It is expensive and a bit difficult. You cant go anyplace you want in a reasonable amount of time. I have had 2 1/2 hour commutes one way that cost 4 or 5 dollars. That is quite a bit more expensive than driving yourself since most parking is free in Houston. My experience in both Salt Lake City and in Birmingham is that the primary routes run radially from the city center. This means that a trip from one outlying area to another which might take a half hour by car takes over two hours by bus: riding one bus all the way downtown, waiting at the transfer point (usually outdoors) then riding another bus out to your intended destination. -- Ronn! :) Almighty Ruler of the all, Whose Power extends to great and small, Who guides the stars with steadfast law, Whose least creation fills with awe, O grant thy mercy and thy grace, To those who venture into space. (Robert A. Heinlein's added verse to the Navy Hymn) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 03:17 PM 12/29/2002 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: The only way you'll get people in this country to take mass transit is to force them and I don't think that's likely to happen in the near future. In Washington, DC, however, our mass transit program is very successful and very well-utilized. Indeed, every time they expand mass transit service here, ridership has exceeded expectations. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 10:35 AM 2/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: At 03:17 PM 12/29/2002 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: The only way you'll get people in this country to take mass transit is to force them and I don't think that's likely to happen in the near future. In Washington, DC, however, our mass transit program is very successful and very well-utilized. Indeed, every time they expand mass transit service here, ridership has exceeded expectations. That would work well in the compact cities of the east, but out west where the cities spread out over large areas mass transit is a major hassle. I have used mass transit here in Houston. It is expensive and a bit difficult. You cant go anyplace you want in a reasonable amount of time. I have had 2 1/2 hour commutes one way that cost 4 or 5 dollars. That is quite a bit more expensive than driving yourself since most parking is free in Houston. OTOH, the Park'N'Ride bus are comfortable and nice. rob Smaller cities don't do mass transit either very well. I'd love to take the train in since the station is two blocks away, but the price is outrageous. The bus is, well it's the bus. They were not nice and not much better on the price. I tried some car pooling but the hours didn't match up. I drive myself in now and park for free. I leave and return early enough to miss the traffic, and a nice 15 minute walk each way. Now when summer comes, the hot days may be fun. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
John D. Giorgis wrote: At 03:17 PM 12/29/2002 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: The only way you'll get people in this country to take mass transit is to force them and I don't think that's likely to happen in the near future. In Washington, DC, however, our mass transit program is very successful and very well-utilized. Indeed, every time they expand mass transit service here, ridership has exceeded expectations. DC is a lot more compact than some other areas in which they're trying mass transit. Also, I get the impression that they're opening up new routes based on good solid *thinking*, not pipe dreams. DC has a reliable mass transit system. Austin's wasn't entirely reliable, last I used it. And now there isn't any route convenient for anything *I* would want to use it for, so I don't. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 01:03 PM 1/5/03 +0100, J. van Baardwijk wrote: At 20:28 04-01-2003 -0500, Dean MacLanders wrote: Getting back to the Segway, I consider a transportation technology that runs on the sidewalk at a speed that requires pedestrians to jump out of the way, I believe the speed is controllable. The problem lies not with the speed being controllable; the problem is that there will always be idiots who think they own the road (or the sidewalk) and will drive at a speed considerably above what would be a *safe* speed. In other words: the problem is not that the driver cannot control the speed; the problem is that some drivers cannot control themselves. Personally, I fully expect that it will be less than a year before we will see the first I got hit by a Segway now give me a million dollars lawsuit. and who's innovation is not that it provides transportation, not that it does it in an energy efficient manner, but that it does it with a certain type of balance and control It appears to me to have more control and maneuverability than any other form of powered transportation. It's not the driver's vehicle control that could cause trouble, it is the driver's self-control that could cause trouble. 2) The difficulties inherent in running at almost 20 feet per second on a pedestrian right of way can be overcome in a straightforward manner. We live with bicycles, skateboards, bladers, and personal mobility devices that do this already. And every year, cyclists, skateboarders, bladers and pedestrians get injured because of it. Jeroen Safety First van Baardwijk As someone said many years ago: The single part of a car which causes the vast majority of accidents is the nut holding the wheel. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 16:44 03-01-2003 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Well, you know the purest forms of near Shakespearian English are found in the US, right? :-) So, in the US a form of English is used that the rest of the world considers to be very outdated English. Now, what does that say about the US? GRIN Jeroen -- who is currently reading Shakespeare's plays about King Henry the Sixth and therefore gets lots of exposure to Shakespearian English LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 02:03:13AM -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: How high is its base? 8 inches (20 cm) -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 04:04 PM 1/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 04:00:52PM -0500, Erik Reuter wrote: people are able to commute and wear their work clothes while doing it, they are on their bikes for less than 15 minutes. Of the other 30 that commute, we all have to have a change of clothes and at the least take a good wet towel bath. Come on, you are talking about people in a bike club. Do you really think they ride only 8-12mph? I can't believe that... One difference I just thought of, are you talking about sensible clothes, or silly stuff like suits? If you are talking about suits, then I will have to defer to you on that, since myself and most of the people I know don't wear suits while riding bikes (if at all) Erik Reuter I am laughing now, this is fun! For the other e-mail, It took me more than an hour to go the nine miles, and it averaged to about 8MPH during the week I tried going slow. Since it's 5am on the way in, I don't stop much. There are 12 red lights on the route, but for most I can give a quick look both ways and keep moving. So I would say that's a constant speed. My entire goal was to pedal as lightly as possible, to not work getting to work. I was trying to prove I could commute but drop my gym membership. The only reason at that point I had the gym membership was to have a place to shower before work. On the way home I'd still fly because it didn't matter. Going to work, there are two downhills and these are preceded by long almost flat up hills. The hill down the street from my house isn't huge, but from the top of it I can coast for 1/2 miles to the next red light. Obviously I know the difference between a lawyer having to wear a suit riding a bike in 80 degree 90% humidity summer morning and a blue collar guy who is going to be sweating anyway once he got to work. And yes bike club people don't try and ride slow, but we were specifically swapping stories and tips for commuting. Most had cruiser bikes or some other beater so they didn't have to worry as much about stealing and the weather. So I'd say 8-12 MPH was a realistic number. Maybe saying all having to change clothes was wrong. But none of us felt comfortable not being able to shower after the morning commute. Some knew there were days they couldn't, the drove or took a bus in. Others only commuted on Fridays or other dress down days. I lost my point. Oh well, trying to do three things at once. Kevin T. I'm done ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 05:02:03PM -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: say 8-12 MPH was a realistic number. Maybe saying all having to change clothes was wrong. But none of us felt comfortable not being able to shower after the morning commute. Some knew there were days they couldn't, the drove or took a bus in. Others only commuted on Fridays or other dress down days. Well, all I can say is that when I use to ride ~3 miles to work (mostly along the lake Michigan path) in Evanston, IL on my recumbent bike, the only time I ever had a problem was on the absolute hottest most humid days, which was maybe 3 or 4 days out of the year (and those days, I would have sweated just as much if I had walked a mile at a moderate pace). This was in the morning, about 8am, and I was usually wearing lightweight khaki slacks and a cotton/polyseter pocket-tee. I usually took about 25 minutes for the ride, but getting to and from the lake path usually required a total of around 3-5 minutes waiting to cross busy streets, so my crusing speed was around 9-10mph. A couple other people who worked there also biked in, and they didn't shower either. So either we are more tolerant of not feeling comfortable than your club, or something else is different... When you talk about not feeling comfortable, I flash on that commercial about that not so fresh feeling! -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:41:35 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Hmm, what fraction of verbal converations between people utilize webcams now? We do have the cheap bandwidth needed to make that possible. I don't know what the fraction is but that is irrelevant. It is used by people who need it or wish to use it. You can buy a web cam and software for very low cost. If the fraction of actual users (who have highspeed internet) is small, while being so affordable, it indicates that people don't see a huge need for this technology. I personally wont have one because I feel it is an invasion of privacy and frankly, I am a bit camera shy. In the context of your original statement, this does not invalidate the technology, only the market which the technology needs. Simply because people criticized valid ideas, doesn't make ideas that are criticized right. And that statement can be easily flipped on its head. Simply because people criticize invalid ideas, doesn't make ideas that are criticized wrong. Your argument seems to be that most new ideas are invalid. This may be the case, however they do serve the purpose of eliminating possibilities which aids the progression of technological development. Like Thomas Edison said, Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed.. So, I certainly do not consider myself a luddite. But, I've listened to hype for over 30 years now, and have developed an ear for separating real innovation from song and dance innovation. My ear is certainly not perfect, but I've had a better track record than others. I have never considered you a luddite. But I do believe you think of new tech in terms of your business and are a little jaded from past promises. You don't have the time or money to follow a path that may not pay off. I too am self employed and am unable to pursue the work I am really interested in for need of generating a certain number of billable hours every month. I wouldn't invest in something based on a sole press release either. Announcements such as the Spectrolab/NREL one, while their immediate impact is not quantified, do indicate a progression in technology. This is what I find interesting and encouraging. One of the things I look for is meat. When I come up with what I consider an innovation, once the patents are applied for of course, I am more than happy to give detailed arguments that back up my claims. Another is the answer to the question the guys before you were bright, why didn't they think of this? Now, this can be considered a negative question, like the questioning of Galileo's right to counter Aristotle. But, Galileo had a good answer, detailed observations are useful because things don't always work as we expect them to. Aristotle was very bright, but his unwillingness to dirty his hands with experimental work was a negative. I ask myself this question when I come up with an idea. If I cannot think of why bright people didn't come up with this idea beforehand, I look very carefully for what I overlooked. Most of the time, I find my own mistake. When I do have good reasons for me being the first person to come up with an idea, then I go forward, with a much better chance of success. All good criteria. What I don't understand is how you have applied them to a PV cell and a Segway. The former is a modification of an already proven technology. The later, a unique idea, which has only been on the market for a few months, and was made possible by recent developments in embedded real time control. When solar power cells drop in price a factor of 2 per kwH, then I'll start to take notice. When they are, once again, just about to, then I don't. Why would you consider this type of skepticism unwarranted? It appears to me that you consider the technology invalid today, because the futurists failed to produce them 30 years ago. Getting back to the Segway, I consider a transportation technology that runs on the sidewalk at a speed that requires pedestrians to jump out of the way, I believe the speed is controllable. and who's innovation is not that it provides transportation, not that it does it in an energy efficient manner, but that it does it with a certain type of balance and control It appears to me to have more control and maneuverability than any other form of powered transportation. at a high price to be more flash than substance. IMHO, a defense of this technology needs to show not only that small energy efficient transportation is desirable, The subject header of this thread suggests it is desirable to someone. but that 1) The unique features of the Segway provide unique and critical advantages for using such technology. IIRC, the use of gyroscopes for stability is what is unique about the Segway. It allows it to turn, literally, on a dime. No vehicle with more than one axle can do that smoothly. 2) The difficulties inherent in running at
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
If you haven't seen this past Sunday's User Friendly cartoon, take a look: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20021229mode=classic Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 9:48 AM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:25:30 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: So I see in the Segway and (hopefully) its descendants a means to move towards a smaller, more efficient means of transportation. How is it more efficient for commuting than other forms of single person transportation that use very little fuel, such as scooters? It may not be. But I think Doug's point was that it gives an option to people who either can't or won't drive a scooter for commuting. There are environments were the Segway will do well. And personal preference will have a lot to do with it. Although right now, that choice isn't there for many people because of the cost. I would like to suggest to all of you who, it appears, have already been run over by one of these, that whether skateboard, bicycle, blades or segway, the problem does not lie with the mode, but with the asshole who is piloting it. Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Well, the TV phone was a new idea too. We were all supposed to have TV phones by now; the first prototypes were available over 40 years ago. Most new well hyped technology doesn't live up to their promise. It is possible to criticize individual efforts without being a luddite. But it wasn't a good idea. People just thought it was neat, not useful. My memory of that era is different from yours. Futurists argued that they were just around the corner. When I was young, I certainly expected them to be the norm by now. My understanding at the time was that most people did. Like automatic doors and food pills. Expense and lack of bandwidth made it impractical for all but the wealthy. Cheap bandwidth is here now and webcams are becoming quite cheap and popular for those who wish to use them. Hmm, what fraction of verbal converations between people utilize webcams now? We do have the cheap bandwidth needed to make that possible. CD's, cell phones, ABM's, debit cards, PC's, microwave ovens, telephones, electricity etc. were all new ideas that at one time had their critics. They said Einstein was crazy, they said Newton was crazy, they said Ernie Schwartz was crazy. Who's Ernie Schwartz? He's a guy down the block who thinks he is Napoleon. Now, he's really crazy. Simply because people criticized valid ideas, doesn't make ideas that are criticized right. How did you ever become a science fiction fan? :-) I always enjoyed science fiction and fantasy. Liking fantasy doesn't mean I believe that people can actually practice magic; I can suspend disbelief to enjoy fiction. My dissertation was in experimental high energy physics. My work has been is in cutting edge technology for most of the last 20 years. I am not opposed to innovation, goodness, I make my living off of it. As I mentioned before, buddies of mine have come up with innovations that save the world economy tens of billions of dollars every year. My own modest contributions are the standard techniques used by all companies for work that grosses over 100 million per year. I'm now working with a team that might be able to revolutionize how another energy industry works, saving both lives and money. So, I certainly do not consider myself a luddite. But, I've listened to hype for over 30 years now, and have developed an ear for separating real innovation from song and dance innovation. My ear is certainly not perfect, but I've had a better track record than others. One of the things I look for is meat. When I come up with what I consider an innovation, once the patents are applied for of course, I am more than happy to give detailed arguments that back up my claims. Another is the answer to the question the guys before you were bright, why didn't they think of this? Now, this can be considered a negative question, like the questioning of Galileo's right to counter Aristotle. But, Galileo had a good answer, detailed observations are useful because things don't always work as we expect them to. Aristotle was very bright, but his unwillingness to dirty his hands with experimental work was a negative. I ask myself this question when I come up with an idea. If I cannot think of why bright people didn't come up with this idea beforehand, I look very carefully for what I overlooked. Most of the time, I find my own mistake. When I do have good reasons for me being the first person to come up with an idea, then I go forward, with a much better chance of success. Remember, most new ideas are wrong. Indeed, Shelly Glashow, the Nobel Prize winner, talks about the small fraction of his new ideas that prove at all useful. He uses a system of multiple critics to help him winnow the wheat from the chaff. In the environment in which I was trained, trying to tear
RE: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
-Original Message- From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online So, I certainly do not consider myself a luddite. But, I've listened to hype for over 30 years now, and have developed an ear for separating real innovation from song and dance innovation. My ear is certainly not perfect, but I've had a better track record than others. Kind of like the new(er) string of IBM commercials, where the consultant sells them magic server dust, a universal connector, and binoculars that can see the future if you keep putting quarters into it.. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 3 Jan 2003 at 13:41, Dan Minette wrote: With respect to point 2, from riding a bike on a bike/hike path and riding a bike on the shoulder street, I know that, with any real pedestrian traffic at all, bike path travel is either a) close to walking speed or b) intrusive. So, well mannered Segway riders will either go on low traffic sidewalks or go much slower than 12 mph. To be brutally honest, I'd support prosecution of anyone who used one on a pavement over here. I almost allways use the road when I skate precisely BECAUSE I'm a good - and fast - skater and I'd hurt someone (most likely myself, given I'm the one on wheels, but) if I hit them at top speed. Sure, I hop back on the pavement to cross major roads, but I'm not going quickly then. I consider the things in the gimmick category. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online On 3 Jan 2003 at 13:41, Dan Minette wrote: With respect to point 2, from riding a bike on a bike/hike path and riding a bike on the shoulder street, I know that, with any real pedestrian traffic at all, bike path travel is either a) close to walking speed or b) intrusive. So, well mannered Segway riders will either go on low traffic sidewalks or go much slower than 12 mph. To be brutally honest, I'd support prosecution of anyone who used one on a pavement over here. I almost allways use the road when I skate precisely BECAUSE I'm a good - and fast - skater and I'd hurt someone (most likely myself, given I'm the one on wheels, but) if I hit them at top speed. Sure, I hop back on the pavement to cross major roads, but I'm not going quickly then. Just to be sure Americans are not confused by a English English: :-) Where you are, is the word pavement used for what we call sidewalks? That is to say, strips of asphalt or concrete along side of but seperate from the roads upon which cars, busses, bikes, etc. travel, intended for pedestrian use? We call anything paved: concrete, asphalt, etc. pavement over here. Dan M. I consider the things in the gimmick category. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 3 Jan 2003 at 15:47, Dan Minette wrote: So, well mannered Segway riders will either go on low traffic sidewalks or go much slower than 12 mph. To be brutally honest, I'd support prosecution of anyone who used one on a pavement over here. I almost allways use the road when I skate precisely BECAUSE I'm a good - and fast - skater and I'd hurt someone (most likely myself, given I'm the one on wheels, but) if I hit them at top speed. Sure, I hop back on the pavement to cross major roads, but I'm not going quickly then. Just to be sure Americans are not confused by a English English: :-) Where you are, is the word pavement used for what we call sidewalks? That is to say, strips of asphalt or concrete along side of but seperate from the roads upon which cars, busses, bikes, etc. travel, intended for pedestrian use? Yes. Blasted Americanisms! :P Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:47 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Yes. Blasted Americanisms! :P Well, you know the purest forms of near Shakespearian English are found in the US, right? :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Dan said: Well, you know the purest forms of near Shakespearian English are found in the US, right? :-) Don't you believe in Progess? A few centuries is time enough for a great many improvements - I suggest you all try your very best to bring American English back into congruence with modern British usage :) Rich, who was once called a stuck-up, cultural-imperialist British bastard by a dear American friend after a discussion along these lines. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 4:47 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Dan said: Well, you know the purest forms of near Shakespearian English are found in the US, right? :-) Don't you believe in Progess? A few centuries is time enough for a great many improvements - I suggest you all try your very best to bring American English back into congruence with modern British usage :) Certainly there is progress, but it rarely found in backwaters. evil grin I'm just pointing out that the US is so culturally diverse that it has both backwaters and cutting edge. You poor English can just muddle through in the muddy middle. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:57:25 -0600 - Original Message - From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 4:47 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Dan said: Well, you know the purest forms of near Shakespearian English are found in the US, right? :-) Don't you believe in Progess? A few centuries is time enough for a great many improvements - I suggest you all try your very best to bring American English back into congruence with modern British usage :) *grin* One word: Snogging. How can you take your language seriously if you refer to it as snogging. ;) *grin* Certainly there is progress, but it rarely found in backwaters. evil grin I'm just pointing out that the US is so culturally diverse that it has both backwaters and cutting edge. You poor English can just muddle through in the muddy middle. :-) Dan M. Clearly you haven't watched AbFab lately. My wife loves the show and owns all four seasons on dvd, but i've found a lot of the expressions and accents on it practically incomprehensible. They've progressed to unintelligibility in one generation: Fawlty Towers/Monty Python - Absolutely Fabulous :-) Then again, i had to ask what a 'git' was today, so perhaps I'm not the best judge! :) Jon _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John D. Giorgis Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online At 10:40 PM 12/28/2002 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? What's wrong with mopeds? The advantage of a moped is that it goes on the street, where moterized vechicals belong. I'm willing to make an exception for moterized wheelchairs, but the segway is not that. I've got to agree with Doug on this. You can't take a Moped onto the Metro/Subway, but I bet that you probably could take the Segway on the Metro/Subway.That would be a huge advantage in my book, given the vast amoutns of walking required to see the sights in downtown DC, as well as eliminating the 10-30 min wait I have for the bus to take me the last 1.5 miles to my home on my daily commute. ~ I detect a possible flaw in your 'commuting by Segway on the metro' plan. How high is its base? Speaking strictly for myself, I am just barely able to walk into NY subways without ducking and have been known to smack my head against the straphangers bar when I stand up and forget the damned thing is there. (I'm 6'3) I bet if the Segway's platform raises the average person more than 6 inches, you won't find people riding them onto subway cars. Anyway, they would probably be ridiculously impractical on NYC subways: (a) most subway and LIRR stations don't have functioning elevators or escalators yet and (b) the first time one of them rolled over a NY'ers foot we'd go medieval on the person riding it. They look *heavy*, and the subways and rail trains can be very crowded. (SRO) I think they may do well as an alternative to buses or trains, but doubt they'll be practical in the way you're suggesting. Jon GSV A Segway Segue' ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:25:30 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: So I see in the Segway and (hopefully) its descendants a means to move towards a smaller, more efficient means of transportation. How is it more efficient for commuting than other forms of single person transportation that use very little fuel, such as scooters? It may not be. But I think Doug's point was that it gives an option to people who either can't or won't drive a scooter for commuting. There are environments were the Segway will do well. And personal preference will have a lot to do with it. Although right now, that choice isn't there for many people because of the cost. I would like to suggest to all of you who, it appears, have already been run over by one of these, that whether skateboard, bicycle, blades or segway, the problem does not lie with the mode, but with the asshole who is piloting it. Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Well, the TV phone was a new idea too. We were all supposed to have TV phones by now; the first prototypes were available over 40 years ago. Most new well hyped technology doesn't live up to their promise. It is possible to criticize individual efforts without being a luddite. But it wasn't a good idea. People just thought it was neat, not useful. Like automatic doors and food pills. Expense and lack of bandwidth made it impractical for all but the wealthy. Cheap bandwidth is here now and webcams are becoming quite cheap and popular for those who wish to use them. CD's, cell phones, ABM's, debit cards, PC's, microwave ovens, telephones, electricity etc. were all new ideas that at one time had their critics. How did you ever become a science fiction fan? :-) Dean ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 10:40 PM 12/28/2002 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? What's wrong with mopeds? The advantage of a moped is that it goes on the street, where moterized vechicals belong. I'm willing to make an exception for moterized wheelchairs, but the segway is not that. I've got to agree with Doug on this. You can't take a Moped onto the Metro/Subway, but I bet that you probably could take the Segway on the Metro/Subway.That would be a huge advantage in my book, given the vast amoutns of walking required to see the sights in downtown DC, as well as eliminating the 10-30 min wait I have for the bus to take me the last 1.5 miles to my home on my daily commute. And, I make enough money to afford one - if I wanted to. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 12:12 PM 12/29/2002 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: Bikes are cool, I use mine to commute regularly to and from the train, but there is a huge segment of the population that will never get on a bike for one reason or another. Just one example: A great many people either can't or don't want to arrive at work after breaking out in a sweat. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 12:07:45PM -0500, John D. Giorgis wrote: You can't take a Moped onto the Metro/Subway, but I bet that you probably could take the Segway on the Metro/Subway. That would be a huge advantage in my book, given the vast amoutns of walking required to see the sights in downtown DC, as well as eliminating the 10-30 min wait I have for the bus to take me the last 1.5 miles to my home on my daily commute. You can take a fold up bicycle on the train. And you can get a decent one (Dahon) for less than $500, or a really nice one (www.bromptonbike.com) for less than $1000. That's 10% to 20% of the price of the Segway. A bike is faster than the Segway (a bike can easily go 20mph, the Segway's top speed is stated to be 12mph, but if we are talking top speed, the bike can surely double the Segway's top speed even with a rider who isn't in the greatest shape). The bike weighs about 1/3 what the Segway does, which is probably more important than most people think: stairs, curbs, etc. will often require lifting or carrying either transportation device. And the bike has a greater cargo capacity as it stands (theoretically you could put panniers on the Segway, but it remains to be seen how well that will work). And with the bike you get some low-impact, high-quality exercise. So, why is the Segway a better value? I think it has the coolness appeal, which will sway some fashionable or thrill-seeker types for a year or two, but long-term, will it really make a difference? I'd bet against it. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 12:13:30PM -0500, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:12 PM 12/29/2002 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: Bikes are cool, I use mine to commute regularly to and from the train, but there is a huge segment of the population that will never get on a bike for one reason or another. Just one example: A great many people either can't or don't want to arrive at work after breaking out in a sweat. Very few people I know will sweat much from the exertion of riding a bike at 12mph, the Segway's top speed. In my experience, riding a bike at 10-12 mph is roughly equivalent to the exertion of walking at 3mph. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Erik Reuter wrote: Very few people I know will sweat much from the exertion of riding a bike at 12mph, the Segway's top speed. In my experience, riding a bike at 10-12 mph is roughly equivalent to the exertion of walking at 3mph. I couldn't agree with you more, though my route from the train station to work includes a steep 300 ft climb, and some manner of perspiration, others would have a much milder route. But however logical and practical it may be, you will still not be able to convince many people to get on a bike. It may be because they are worried about rumpling their cloths or getting their pant leg caught in the chain (or appearing extremely geeky by strapping their pant leg or tucking it into their sock). Women with silly shoes will never ride them. It maybe a stigma that a bicycle is a kid's toy and that they feel silly on one. The bike car on Cal-Train (SF Bay area commuter train that runs between Gilroy and San Francisco) is very popular here and is often so full that they can't let everyone with a bike on, though the demand is much lower this time of year. It is a good idea for those who don't have a problem with riding a bike. But those who feel that they must appear prim and proper, or feel that they must wear silly shoes the Segway (or its cheaper, lighter, more practical future iterations, I hope) is a possible alternative. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 10:38:46AM -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: this time of year. It is a good idea for those who don't have a problem with riding a bike. But those who feel that they must appear prim and proper, or feel that they must wear silly shoes the Segway (or its cheaper, lighter, more practical future iterations, I hope) is a possible alternative. My feeling is that the best future use of this technology will be for robots. For upright, vaguely-human shaped robots, there is already technology for making bipedal robots (http://world.honda.com/robot/). If the robot needs to be able to climb stairs or step into a vehicle, then the bipedal robot is obviously required. But the bipedal robot is heavy, expensive, and slow. For applications that don't require stepping up/down things, a Segway-like robot would be ideal (roaming a single-floor home, mowing the lawn, walking the dog?). Or for a higher level of complexity, combine the Segway technology with the bipedal robot. Then it can speed along on level ground on wheels, but when it gets to the stairs it can step onto them as needed. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Doug Pensinger wrote: But however logical and practical it may be, you will still not be able to convince many people to get on a bike. It may be because they are worried about rumpling their cloths or getting their pant leg caught in the chain (or appearing extremely geeky by strapping their pant leg or tucking it into their sock). Women with silly shoes will never ride them. Women with silly shoes would be a lot better off wearing sneakers for the actual commute, using a bike or walking for as much of it as would be reasonable, and changing into the silly shoes once they got there. The exercise would be good for their legs, which would do things to make the feet look better in the silly shoes once they had them on. :) Julia who avoids wearing silly shoes whenever possible, unless for some unfathomable reason Doug puts Reeboks into that category ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Julia Thompson wrote: who avoids wearing silly shoes whenever possible, unless for some unfathomable reason Doug puts Reeboks into that category No. Silly shoes are those that put function secondary to form, i.e. high heels. Many men like the way they look on women (I guess), I think they look as stupid as they are. Doug Whose wife wears silly shoes and has foot and knee problems. Go figure. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 12:13 01-01-2003 -0500, John Giorgis wrote: A great many people either can't or don't want to arrive at work after breaking out in a sweat. Ah, the joys of working at an Army base -- almost every building, including the one where I work, has shower facilities... Jeroen -- who really ought to return to commuting by bicycle once the weather improves LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 10:48 AM 1/1/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:25:30 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: So I see in the Segway and (hopefully) its descendants a means to move towards a smaller, more efficient means of transportation. How is it more efficient for commuting than other forms of single person transportation that use very little fuel, such as scooters? It may not be. But I think Doug's point was that it gives an option to people who either can't or won't drive a scooter for commuting. There are environments were the Segway will do well. And personal preference will have a lot to do with it. Although right now, that choice isn't there for many people because of the cost. I would like to suggest to all of you who, it appears, have already been run over by one of these, that whether skateboard, bicycle, blades or segway, the problem does not lie with the mode, but with the ahole who is piloting it. That was what I was trying to say with my description of a Segway driver with one hand on the horn and the other holding a cell phone, the same way they drive their cars, and the speculation that drive like that because to them time is money may be the only ones who can come up with the $5K price tag . . . Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Well, the TV phone was a new idea too. We were all supposed to have TV phones by now; the first prototypes were available over 40 years ago. Most new well hyped technology doesn't live up to their promise. It is possible to criticize individual efforts without being a luddite. But it wasn't a good idea. People just thought it was neat, not useful. Like automatic doors and food pills. Expense and lack of bandwidth made it impractical for all but the wealthy. Cheap bandwidth is here now and webcams are becoming quite cheap and popular for those who wish to use them. Could one reason that the videophone did not catch on 40 years ago be because 40 years ago p_rn was not as mainstream as it was by the time the Internet took off? If it had been, 1-900-TALK-TO-ME might have been 1-900-LOOK-AT-ME for $3.99 a minute . . . CD's, cell phones, ABM's, Still do. Maybe soon they'll be more accurate and able to hit the target consistently. debit cards, PC's, microwave ovens, telephones, electricity etc. were all new ideas that at one time had their critics. How did you ever become a science fiction fan? :-) Dean --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 29 Dec 2002 at 19:30, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 01:05 AM 12/30/02 +, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 29 Dec 2002 at 18:39, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: steep. Anyone who lives at the top of the street and rides a bicycle either pushes it the last few hundred feet or must have some inhumanly well-developed leg muscles (and I haven't seen any neighbors who meet that description--in fact, a good number of them are older than I am and are subject to the frailties of age). This is why I prefer skates to a bike... (parents house is on a hill) I can just see some of these people--who are in their 60s, 70s, and up (though many are in good shape for their age¹)--trying to skate up this hill. NOT. Still a better option than a bike. Plus I can go plenty of places where bike users can't. And skates don't get stolen considering I sling them under my bag then I'm wearing em. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:16:59 -0600 Jon Gabriel wrote: Cat Pee and Segways. Did we all have a boring Saturday night or something? *grin* Julia, was it The Postman? Since no one seems to be guessing. No. Go back and look again at the post where I ask the question. Julia betcha Jim will get it, anyway Well, I cheated. Went to imdb.com and looked up 'with great power comes great responsibility and got Spiderman! :-) I've only seen bits and pieces, but not the whole thing yet. Will rent it eventually, I guess. :) Jon GSV ...does whatever a spider can _ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailxAPID=42PS=47575PI=7324DI=7474SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsgHL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
with great power comes great responsibility If they had used this line in the movie _Cable Guy_ it would have made the movie slightly better. Slightly. William Taylor - With greater responsibility comes greater excuses I'll do it during half-time, dear. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
DVDs Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:16:59 -0600 Jon Gabriel wrote: Cat Pee and Segways. Did we all have a boring Saturday night or something? *grin* Julia, was it The Postman? Since no one seems to be guessing. No. Go back and look again at the post where I ask the question. Julia betcha Jim will get it, anyway Well, I cheated. Went to imdb.com and looked up 'with great power comes great responsibility and got Spiderman! That's it exactly. Well, I got 1 other DVD, not a movie, and it would take forever to guess which one. (Unless you found my amazon.com wishlist, looked through *that* carefully, and then you could figure out by process of elimination. But that would be a pain, so if anyone asks, I'll tell.) Oh, and at a party with a gift exchange, I walked off with 3 DVDs, including Santa Claus Conquers the Martians, which is really bad. (Which was the point in walking off with it.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
From: Ronn! Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] (Personally, I've had little luck in training any of the cats I've had to use the toilet, so I'm not volunteering.) No luck here either. It did give one of my cats a bladder infection though. She really, really didn't want to go anywhere but in her litter box. She's a good kitty. Just not toilet trained... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] No. Go back and look again at the post where I ask the question Ah, _Spider-Man_, of course! - jmh I've got that one too. Good disk! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 12:42 PM 12/30/02 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: Jon GSV ...does whatever a spider can Shoot silk out of your butt? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronn wrote- BTW: How well does it do on hills? I live on a hill which is hard to get to the top of when it snows unless you have a 4WD (which most of the year is also an expensive luxury). I can't really speak to the specifics, just a bit of hearsay. Evidently a my sister in law use to room with one of the marketers for Segway. The devices are made in Manchester NH, which can be a pretty hilly place. Evidently the staff pretty much take them to coffee breaks,etc. No real huge issues/complaints on insufferability from the general population, but take that from someone who no longer works in Manchester. Manchester is not as hilly as Austin, IME. Also, in Manchester, the population density/average in-city distance to commute is more favorable for using a Segway than it would be in Austin. I think it's hillier than Nashua, though (although Dee would be the better judge of *that*; nobody would care about the hilliness of Hollis, which I could tell you about, at least the eastern half of it). Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Julia Thompson wrote: betcha Jim will get it, anyway Normally you'd be right, but I'm afraid you lose this time. I'm in Utah visiting my brother and his family, so I've been blowing off a lot of messages this week. Sorry to disappoint! Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Trent Shipley wrote: Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Caveat: Most powered personal mobility devices used by the disabled, if not all, put the user's head at a lower height than the heads of full-grown pedestrians. I will agree with your resolution *provided* that all powered personal mobility devices have the user's head at a lower level than the average full-grown pedestrian. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:47 AM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Trent Shipley wrote: Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Caveat: Most powered personal mobility devices used by the disabled, if not all, put the user's head at a lower height than the heads of full-grown pedestrians. I will agree with your resolution *provided* that all powered personal mobility devices have the user's head at a lower level than the average full-grown pedestrian. Is there any benefit to that? Personally, I'd rather be able to see them from farther away, especially in a crowd. xponent Almost Trips Over Wheelchairs Regularly Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Doug Pensinger wrote: You guys sound like a tryst of old men sitting around a pickle barrel thinking of ways to injure skateboarders. Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? Do you know any older people that have trouble getting around and are thus limited as to where they can go? Do you know anyone that lives less than five miles from work and drives a behemoth vehicle that can seat eight and gets 15 mpg or less? Or are you just afraid of new tech? Sorry, Doug. I don't mean to be a sourpuss (except when it serves my agenda of gratuitous humorous overkill) but I do know lots of people who meet the description you give, and I can't think of any who would be safe (to themselves or others) on a Segway. I don't know any who would be able to muscle the 80 + lb. machine up the stairs of a bus, say, and then down again. If our GOAL is to improve transportation for the mobility impaired, the Segway doesn't strike me as the obvious choice. Now, maybe the Segway will be rare enough and nimble enough that it doesn't cause many problems. And I can see that it might be very useful on, say, a corporate campus or in a large warehouse or on a lightly trafficked sidewalk. (But back when I worked inventory in a large warehouse, my little used bicycle did a very fine job for me). The technology is certainly cool...but as others have said, the only people I can imagine using it at this point are the rude-driving, cell-phone yakking, SUV set. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: way doesn't strike me as the obvious choice. Now, maybe the Segway will be rare enough and nimble enough that it doesn't cause many problems. And I can see that it might be very useful on, say, a corporate campus or in a large warehouse or on a lightly trafficked sidewalk. (But back when I worked inventory in a large warehouse, my little used bicycle did a very fine job for me). The technology is certainly cool...but as others have said, the only people I can imagine using it at this point are the rude-driving, cell-phone yakking, SUV set. You all may be right, at least at first. We all know that rich people get to play with new kinds of toys first, that's nothing new. Also I didn't realize that they were that heavy - I thought that they had advertised that it could be lifted easily into the trunk of a car. In any case, any technology that offers an alternative to something as inefficient as the automobile should be given a chance to succeed. Bikes are cool, I use mine to commute regularly to and from the train, but there is a huge segment of the population that will never get on a bike for one reason or another. Perhaps this offers an alternative that those people would use. And maybe a fuel cell version of the thing would be lighter? And perhaps there will be a version that will allow people to sit rather than stand. Doug The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades. 8^) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Doug Pensinger wrote: You all may be right, at least at first. We all know that rich people get to play with new kinds of toys first, that's nothing new. Also I didn't realize that they were that heavy - I thought that they had advertised that it could be lifted easily into the trunk of a car. If you're young and buff, maybe. In any case, any technology that offers an alternative to something as inefficient as the automobile should be given a chance to succeed. Bikes are cool, I use mine to commute regularly to and from the train, but there is a huge segment of the population that will never get on a bike for one reason or another. Perhaps this offers an alternative that those people would use. And maybe a fuel cell version of the thing would be lighter? And perhaps there will be a version that will allow people to sit rather than stand. Maybe...I've nothing against the technology itself. But is a $5000 tool that will move one and only one person at a slow (but fast enough to endanger pedestrians) speed with only a tiny bit of cargo an efficient use of that technology? The ultra-individualistic application inherent in the Segway seems to me to mirror the inefficiencies of the automobile (compared to well-designed mass transit) rather than to alleviate them. Time will tell, I suppose. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: Maybe...I've nothing against the technology itself. But is a $5000 tool that will move one and only one person at a slow (but fast enough to endanger pedestrians) speed with only a tiny bit of cargo an efficient use of that technology? The ultra-individualistic application inherent in the Segway seems to me to mirror the inefficiencies of the automobile (compared to well-designed mass transit) rather than to alleviate them. Time will tell, I suppose. The only way you'll get people in this country to take mass transit is to force them and I don't think that's likely to happen in the near future. So we will continue to have single parties drive vehicles designed to transport 4 or more people and a fair amount of cargo, taking up several times the space an efficient vehicle would use and consuming far more energy than is necessary. Then, to support this system, we build ever larger roads and highways that never seem to be quite large enough to accommodate peak traffic. Mass transit systems aren't well supported by the people, and in any case don't reach most of them and still require some intermediate form of transportation; shuttle, bus, bike or car. In addition you have a problem with cargo while using mass transit as well. So I see in the Segway and (hopefully) its descendants a means to move towards a smaller, more efficient means of transportation. Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 12:31 PM 12/29/02 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:47 AM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Trent Shipley wrote: Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Caveat: Most powered personal mobility devices used by the disabled, if not all, put the user's head at a lower height than the heads of full-grown pedestrians. I will agree with your resolution *provided* that all powered personal mobility devices have the user's head at a lower level than the average full-grown pedestrian. Is there any benefit to that? Personally, I'd rather be able to see them from farther away, especially in a crowd. xponent Almost Trips Over Wheelchairs Regularly Maru rob Bicycle flags. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online So I see in the Segway and (hopefully) its descendants a means to move towards a smaller, more efficient means of transportation. How is it more efficient for commuting than other forms of single person transportation that use very little fuel, such as scooters? Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Well, the TV phone was a new idea too. We were all supposed to have TV phones by now; the first prototypes were available over 40 years ago. Most new well hyped technology doesn't live up to their promise. It is possible to criticize individual efforts without being a luddite. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 05:25 PM 12/29/02 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Obviously the scope if this first iteration is limited, but its a start, a new idea, and I hope it's successful. Well, the TV phone was a new idea too. We were all supposed to have TV phones by now; the first prototypes were available over 40 years ago. Most new well hyped technology doesn't live up to their promise. It's the 21st century, so WHERE'S MY FLYING CAR?!! --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 29 Dec 2002 at 18:39, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: steep. Anyone who lives at the top of the street and rides a bicycle either pushes it the last few hundred feet or must have some inhumanly well-developed leg muscles (and I haven't seen any neighbors who meet that description--in fact, a good number of them are older than I am and are subject to the frailties of age). This is why I prefer skates to a bike... (parents house is on a hill) Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 06:39:39PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: If it goes about 10 mph, unless it's a heckuva lot more comfortable to stand on for long periods than it looks like it would be, it would be limited to trips of less than, oh 5 miles. (8 km for Alberto.) So where do I go frequently that is less than 5 miles away? Actually, that number is better than you think. The battery limits the range to 5-10 miles before a recharge. BTW: How well does it do on hills? I live on a hill which is hard to get They aren't available until March, so we only have their word. They say it is fine on moderate hills. The video doesn't show it going on any hills. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 01:05 AM 12/30/02 +, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 29 Dec 2002 at 18:39, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: steep. Anyone who lives at the top of the street and rides a bicycle either pushes it the last few hundred feet or must have some inhumanly well-developed leg muscles (and I haven't seen any neighbors who meet that description--in fact, a good number of them are older than I am and are subject to the frailties of age). This is why I prefer skates to a bike... (parents house is on a hill) I can just see some of these people--who are in their 60s, 70s, and up (though many are in good shape for their age¹)--trying to skate up this hill. NOT. ;-) _ ¹FWIW, my stepmother lives across the street, is 81, and goes for a walk around the neighborhood every day (weather permitting). And prepared a big meal for the whole family who gathered at her house on Wednesday. And is generally more independent and self-sufficient than a lot of people twenty years younger. In fact, she works with Meals-on-Wheels and other charity-type things to help some of those other people. And her house (the same size as mine) is immaculate, while I basically have trails to get from one room to another through all the accumulated detritus of an academic life. And she was still working part time staying with sick people in their homes (she was a nurse for many years) as recently as a few months ago (she may still be doing so, but she hasn't mentioned anything about it to me recently). --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 08:16 PM 12/29/02 -0500, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 06:39:39PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: If it goes about 10 mph, unless it's a heckuva lot more comfortable to stand on for long periods than it looks like it would be, it would be limited to trips of less than, oh 5 miles. (8 km for Alberto.) So where do I go frequently that is less than 5 miles away? Actually, that number is better than you think. The battery limits the range to 5-10 miles before a recharge. I was thinking about _standing_ essentially still on the thing for half an hour or more. BTW: How well does it do on hills? I live on a hill which is hard to get They aren't available until March, so we only have their word. They say it is fine on moderate hills. The video doesn't show it going on any hills. Well, I have certainly lived and worked on some rather steep hills -- ones which, as I said earlier, an ordinary car couldn't get up when it snowed -- and I have to wonder how well it would do climbing them even in good weather. Another thought: the last February I lived in Provo, every morning for a week at 8am when I went into work the temperature was -13°F. I didn't even try to start my car, but took the bus (had to walk a couple of blocks at each end of the ride). Would I really have wanted to roll down the street with the wind in my face? Not to mention the bumpy ice surface covering the sidewalks where snow had been shoveled into piles or walked on, then re-frozen rock-hard during the night . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 08:04:18PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: I was thinking about _standing_ essentially still on the thing for half an hour or more. I know, that's what you wrote before. But the real limiting factor is likely to be the battery. Another thought: the last February I lived in Provo, every morning for a week at 8am when I went into work the temperature was -13°F. I didn't even try to start my car, but took the bus (had to walk a couple of blocks at each end of the ride). Would I really have wanted to roll down the street with the wind in my face? Not to mention the bumpy ice surface covering the sidewalks where snow had been shoveled into piles or walked on, then re-frozen rock-hard during the night . . . If it is on a hill, at least half of the trip would be easy (skis, sled, etc.) -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 29 Dec 2002 at 21:09, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 08:04:18PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: I was thinking about _standing_ essentially still on the thing for half an hour or more. I know, that's what you wrote before. But the real limiting factor is likely to be the battery. Another thought: the last February I lived in Provo, every morning for a week at 8am when I went into work the temperature was -13°F. I didn't even try to start my car, but took the bus (had to walk a couple of blocks at each end of the ride). Would I really have wanted to roll down the street with the wind in my face? Not to mention the bumpy ice surface covering the sidewalks where snow had been shoveled into piles or walked on, then re-frozen rock-hard during the night . . . If it is on a hill, at least half of the trip would be easy (skis, sled, etc.) It's stopping at the bottom which is the problem :P (And if you miss at the bottom of the road this house is in, there's a long steep slope down to a path and the railway mesh fence...) Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 09:09 PM 12/29/02 -0500, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 08:04:18PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: I was thinking about _standing_ essentially still on the thing for half an hour or more. I know, that's what you wrote before. But the real limiting factor is likely to be the battery. Even when it is SRO on the bus or train, you can shuffle your feet a little. Can you do that on IT? Another thought: the last February I lived in Provo, every morning for a week at 8am when I went into work the temperature was -13°F. I didn't even try to start my car, but took the bus (had to walk a couple of blocks at each end of the ride). Would I really have wanted to roll down the street with the wind in my face? Not to mention the bumpy ice surface covering the sidewalks where snow had been shoveled into piles or walked on, then re-frozen rock-hard during the night . . . If it is on a hill, at least half of the trip would be easy (skis, sled, etc.) Nope. In this case, going right down University Avenue. Quite straight and level. And only a narrow, irregular path through the ice where people have tracked through the snow while it was still soft and unpacked. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 08:32:38PM -0600, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Even when it is SRO on the bus or train, you can shuffle your feet a little. Can you do that on IT? Yes, a little, if you don't lean too much. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
In a message dated 12/28/2002 3:16:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amazon started taking orders for the Segway last month, requiring a $495 deposit toward the human transporter's price of $4,950, and putting enthusiasts one step closer to riding the much-hyped invention once known only under its development name, Ginger. When the advanced model comes out, nicknamed Fred, there will of course be a feminist protest. William Taylor Will Segway squaredancing be next? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Who wants to join a pledge to beat the hell out of the first person we see riding one of these things down a sidewalk and forcing ordinary pedestrians to jump out of the way? Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 07:27:55PM -0600, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: Who wants to join a pledge to beat the hell out of the first person we see riding one of these things down a sidewalk and forcing ordinary pedestrians to jump out of the way? Nah, but I bet they are easy to trip when they are traveling at a decent clip. If we could invent a sort of cane with a little protuberance at the right height, and a tire-rubber like foot to set it and hold it during the operation, I'll bet you could trip them up when they don't practice courteous sharing of the sidewalk. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: Who wants to join a pledge to beat the hell out of the first person we see riding one of these things down a sidewalk and forcing ordinary pedestrians to jump out of the way? I just won't jump. Pedestrians on foot *always* have the right of way on a sidewalk. If one of them hits me, they're responsible for any expenses incurred in the treatment of my injuries. :) Enough of *those* incidents, and no one will want to ride one within 10 blocks of me. Problem solved. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 07:27:55PM -0600, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: Who wants to join a pledge to beat the hell out of the first person we see riding one of these things down a sidewalk and forcing ordinary pedestrians to jump out of the way? Nah, but I bet they are easy to trip when they are traveling at a decent clip. If we could invent a sort of cane with a little protuberance at the right height, and a tire-rubber like foot to set it and hold it during the operation, I'll bet you could trip them up when they don't practice courteous sharing of the sidewalk. I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:12:34PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Maybe for a masochist, but it is too painful for me. :-) -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:00 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 07:27:55PM -0600, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: Who wants to join a pledge to beat the hell out of the first person we see riding one of these things down a sidewalk and forcing ordinary pedestrians to jump out of the way? Nah, but I bet they are easy to trip when they are traveling at a decent clip. If we could invent a sort of cane with a little protuberance at the right height, and a tire-rubber like foot to set it and hold it during the operation, I'll bet you could trip them up when they don't practice courteous sharing of the sidewalk. I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Maybe a microwave burst directed at its electronics? G xponent Sabots At The Ready Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 09:14:43PM -0500, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. Also, it may be cheaper to go with another option, as far as making the device in your basement. A slippery sheet (like teflon) on the end of a cane. Slip its wheel out from under it. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Saturday 28 December 2002 07:14 pm, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. At 10 mph it won't matter how well the personal mobility thingy is going. Induce any sudden acceleration and any unsecured mass is going to continue on its last trajectory. Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Trent Shipley wrote: On Saturday 28 December 2002 07:14 pm, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. At 10 mph it won't matter how well the personal mobility thingy is going. Induce any sudden acceleration and any unsecured mass is going to continue on its last trajectory. Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. In the interests of equity, anyone using a powered personal mobility device has the responsibility to be courteous of any disabled person *not* using a powered personal mobility device. After all, with great power comes great responsibility. Julia p.s. guess what *I* got for Christmas on DVD? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:54:14PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: p.s. guess what *I* got for Christmas on DVD? A broken DVD? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:54:14PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: p.s. guess what *I* got for Christmas on DVD? A broken DVD? That wouldn't be *on* DVD, now, would it? ;) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:12:34PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Maybe for a masochist, but it is too painful for me. :-) I was gonna say, are the quality of life issues attendant to being hit by one of these things repeatedly worth the smug satisfaction of suing the owners? I'd like my defense to be a bit more...offensive. But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:59:02PM -0600, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 09:00:52PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:54:14PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: p.s. guess what *I* got for Christmas on DVD? A broken DVD? That wouldn't be *on* DVD, now, would it? ;) Video of a disc, laying across two pencils, and a hammer coming down in the middle... -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:12:34PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Maybe for a masochist, but it is too painful for me. :-) I was gonna say, are the quality of life issues attendant to being hit by one of these things repeatedly worth the smug satisfaction of suing the owners? I'd like my defense to be a bit more...offensive. But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Better yet, work in groups with 2-way radios, and when you *almost* get run over, broadcast a description. Then one of your compadres can hit the driver with cat pee in the *front*. Not in the face, mind you -- you might get it in his eyes, and that would be nasty. No, just the shirt. And enough to soak through to the undershirt. This would inconvenience without any actual injury to anyone. (Aiming for the crotch would probably be a little more satisfying, but a much harder shot to make.) Rabbit pee would probably be reasonably effective, as well. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Trent Shipley wrote: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. The resolution fails to address the type of mobility devices to be permitted, and saying anyone may use them may not help the handicapped. On a sidewalk crammed with Segways, scooters, and motorized wheelchairs, the truly handicapped will only be handicapped further by traffic congestion that reduces the utility of being allowed a compensatory privilege. Also, how appropriate is the Segway for a truly handicapped person (one with bad legs, say, or poor eyesight, or poor reflexes, or all of the above). You have to stand on the things and they're lousy for carrying a load. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 09:57 PM 12/28/02 -0500, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:59:02PM -0600, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... Perhaps one could start with a cat which has been trained to use the toilet instead of a litter box, and install some sort of collection mechanism under the seat . . . (Personally, I've had little luck in training any of the cats I've had to use the toilet, so I'm not volunteering.) --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 09:07 PM 12/28/02 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:12:34PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Maybe for a masochist, but it is too painful for me. :-) I was gonna say, are the quality of life issues attendant to being hit by one of these things repeatedly worth the smug satisfaction of suing the owners? I'd like my defense to be a bit more...offensive. But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Better yet, work in groups with 2-way radios, and when you *almost* get run over, broadcast a description. Then one of your compadres can hit the driver with cat pee in the *front*. Not in the face, mind you -- you might get it in his eyes, and that would be nasty. No, just the shirt. And enough to soak through to the undershirt. This would inconvenience without any actual injury to anyone. (Aiming for the crotch would probably be a little more satisfying, but a much harder shot to make.) Rabbit pee would probably be reasonably effective, as well. And easier to collect, too. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online On Saturday 28 December 2002 07:14 pm, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. At 10 mph it won't matter how well the personal mobility thingy is going. Induce any sudden acceleration and any unsecured mass is going to continue on its last trajectory. Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Most of the people that I know who are disabled, including my wife, could not use the Segway for more than a few minutes at a time. For my wife, using a Segway for 5 minutes would be as hard or harder than walking 5 minutes. A motorized wheelchair is much better for a handicapped person. Depending on their control, I either expect them to be courteous to pedestrians, or give way. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
p.s. guess what *I* got for Christmas on DVD? A broken DVD? That wouldn't be *on* DVD, now, would it? ;) Video of a disc, laying across two pencils, and a hammer coming down in the middle... And think of all the extras. Instead of just a normal claw hammer, you can click on ball peen, cross peen, straight peen, raising, dishing, chipping, shrinking, and dead blow hammers. You could even get kinky and use top swages that look like hammers. I see it as a two disc set. William Taylor - Get'em on the Field Armoury [Retired] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 09:32 PM 12/28/02 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online On Saturday 28 December 2002 07:14 pm, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:16:59PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: I would imagine the Segways internal gyroscopic system would make it *hard* to trip. Want to bet? It it is going 10mph and hits an unmoving object at the right height, it is going to pitch forward quite a bit, no question. At 10 mph it won't matter how well the personal mobility thingy is going. Induce any sudden acceleration and any unsecured mass is going to continue on its last trajectory. Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Most of the people that I know who are disabled, including my wife, could not use the Segway for more than a few minutes at a time. For my wife, using a Segway for 5 minutes would be as hard or harder than walking 5 minutes. A motorized wheelchair is much better for a handicapped person. Depending on their control, I either expect them to be courteous to pedestrians, or give way. Given the price of the scooter, though, the demographic which can afford them are probably the ones who feel that walking is too slow and wastes too much time out of their busy, important lives, the type who will ride the thing down a sidewalk at full tilt regardless of congestion with one hand honking the horn¹ and the other holding a cell phone to their ear . . . (IOW, the same way they drive a car now.) _ ¹If it doesn't now come with one, someone is sure to come up with one that can be added. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... I hear Harkonnen Inc. has a device that might be adaptable to our nefarious purpose...but we could probably concoct something sufficiently foul as a substitute. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 10:35 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... I hear Harkonnen Inc. has a device that might be adaptable to our nefarious purpose...but we could probably concoct something sufficiently foul as a substitute. You guys sound like a tryst of old men sitting around a pickle barrel thinking of ways to injure skateboarders. Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? What's wrong with mopeds? The advantage of a moped is that it goes on the street, where moterized vechicals belong. I'm willing to make an exception for moterized wheelchairs, but the segway is not that. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... I hear Harkonnen Inc. has a device that might be adaptable to our nefarious purpose...but we could probably concoct something sufficiently foul as a substitute. You guys sound like a tryst of old men sitting around a pickle barrel thinking of ways to injure skateboarders. Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? Do you know any older people that have trouble getting around and are thus limited as to where they can go? Do you know anyone that lives less than five miles from work and drives a behemoth vehicle that can seat eight and gets 15 mpg or less? Or are you just afraid of new tech? Doug Sheesh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Cat Pee and Segways. Did we all have a boring Saturday night or something? *grin* Julia, was it The Postman? Since no one seems to be guessing. In the last two weeks or so I got Minority Report, A.I., MIB2 and a Fawlty Towers collection. (I'm having fun.) Jon GSV Still trying to get through 4 books, too. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 10:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online At 09:07 PM 12/28/02 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 08:12:34PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I like it, but for the passive-agressive, the method I outlined in another post might be a little more satisfying. :) Maybe for a masochist, but it is too painful for me. :-) I was gonna say, are the quality of life issues attendant to being hit by one of these things repeatedly worth the smug satisfaction of suing the owners? I'd like my defense to be a bit more...offensive. But perhaps violence is the last resort of the incompetent. (Is there anything useful about a Segway other than the path-clearing threat of violence it embodies?) Maybe we should just carry squirt-guns loaded with cat pee and target the retreating driver's posterior. Better yet, work in groups with 2-way radios, and when you *almost* get run over, broadcast a description. Then one of your compadres can hit the driver with cat pee in the *front*. Not in the face, mind you -- you might get it in his eyes, and that would be nasty. No, just the shirt. And enough to soak through to the undershirt. This would inconvenience without any actual injury to anyone. (Aiming for the crotch would probably be a little more satisfying, but a much harder shot to make.) Rabbit pee would probably be reasonably effective, as well. And easier to collect, too. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
In a message dated 12/28/2002 9:29:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You guys sound like a tryst of old men sitting around a pickle barrel thinking of ways to injure skateboarders. I said it before. I don't like pickles. Skateboarding is not a crime. Where you skateboard can be. Uven that XXX dude would agree with that. Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? Try 30 minutes in Tucson. All busses have front bike racks. Not all take wheelchairs; there's a special bus service one can use. Neither bus has a place for a segway right now. Do you know any older people that have trouble getting around and are thus limited as to where they can go? Yup. And it is called getting a cab. Because if you are talking too old to drive, the same skills are going to be needed for the segway. Do you know anyone that lives less than five miles from work and drives a behemoth vehicle that can seat eight and gets 15 mpg or less? Yup. And every weekend he drives 20 to 200 miles for an SCA camping event. Or are you just afraid of new tech? Then what am I doing on the internet? Doug Sheesh The segway will find its own nitch. It will not be a panacea replacement to be worshiped by the technophiles. I refuse to follow the bouncing Ba-al and sacrifice the current primary means of transport just yet. But of course by playing up the cat pee propaganda, we expect to be getting three sheeshes to the winded. :-) William Taylor -- And thus goes the segway of all flesh, fowl and good red herring. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
Doug Pensinger wrote: Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? No. (But the people I know relying on mass transit have it worse than that, admittedly; but they tend to either live or work in neighborhoods where you could get killed for a mode of transportation a little less expensive than $5K.) Do you know any older people that have trouble getting around and are thus limited as to where they can go? Yes, but none of them can afford the $5K, and even if they could, the particular solution given by Segway won't work very well for them. A Lark would be a heckuva lot better. Do you know anyone that lives less than five miles from work and drives a behemoth vehicle that can seat eight and gets 15 mpg or less? No. And the people I know who drive SUVs of whatever size have needs that will not be fulfilled by Segway. The one I can most easily think of offhand is the couple that have to drive their toddler to daycare every morning; if it weren't for that, they'd probably use public transportation and/or just straight walking. (You could get a good 30 minutes worth of exercise each way, between their apartment and the building they work in.) And they got a fuel-efficient SUV. (They're the ones with the kitten I sprayed with water, reported in another thread.) Now, I know people who live less than 5 miles from work by virtue of telecommuting, but a Segway isn't going to help out with *that*. :) They'll pay less in gasoline and car maintenence, but more in electricity and (if they have it) heating fuel. (Natural gas or propane, depending on circumstance.) At least they won't be driving unneccessary SUVs to commute. A Segway may be a great solution for some people in some cities, but unfortunately, Austin really isn't one of the cities I'd see it as a practical thing in. (And if you want a moped, I saw one for sale chained up outside Waterloo Records on Monday; it may still (or once again) be there with the phone number to call if you're interested in buying it. A moped isn't going to work well for me at this point in my life; it might have been nice 5 years ago.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 11:23 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online But of course by playing up the cat pee propaganda, we expect to be getting three sheeshes to the winded. :-) Don't worry about that. Marvin just thinks he is a wizz kid. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
In a message dated 12/28/2002 10:05:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the last two weeks or so I got Minority Report, A.I., MIB2 and a Fawlty Towers collection. (I'm having fun.) Fawlty is fair, though not faulty. I would rather worship John Otto the Chinless at the shrine of ISIRTA. But off the air tapes are so much harder to collect. William Taylor - I sit in my bath and I have a good laugh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
In a message dated 12/28/2002 10:28:45 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But of course by playing up the cat pee propaganda, we expect to be getting three sheeshes to the winded. :-) Don't worry about that. Marvin just thinks he is a wizz kid. Dan M. In a long past election, I wanted to give a bunch of drinking men a six pack of beer each and then after the partaking of said beverage, have them stand on the edge of the roof of a building and form a Perot support group. William Taylor - New forms of yellow journalism. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0112/sht2.shtml After a year-long buildup during which it was known as the mysterious Ginger or IT, the revolutionary, scooter-like Segway Human Transporter was unveiled Monday without first being checked for its potential acronym. As a result, the media was full of Segway Human Transporter stories, while investors on Wall Street were hoping inventor Dean Kamen would take his cool Segway Human Transporter public so they could get a piece of Segway Human Transporter. Word about the electric-powered transportation machine was leaked last year, but it took more than 10 years for Kamen and his team to get their Segway Human Transporter together. When the device was introduced Monday on ABC's Good Morning America, riders who took an initial Segway Human Transporter spin were visibly impressed. I can't believe this Segway Human Transporter! said ABC's Diane Sawyer. It's so fun and stable and quiet! Wow. Segway Human Transporter. Boy, I hope no one's looking because I really want to take a Segway Human Transporter right now! joshed good-natured co-host Charles Gibson. Gibson will have to wait, however. The company is currently producing only a big Segway Human Transporter for commercial use, and won't make a little Segway Human Transporter for consumers until the 2002 holiday season, said Kamen. At $3,000 each, however, the consumer model may be out of reach of all but the most generous of gift givers. If it's three grand, there's no way I can give a Segway Human Transporter, said Holly Dumal of Princeton, N.J. I wish they'd make a cheap Segway Human Transporter. Kamen replied that the company would never give its Segway Human Transporter away, but promised a less expensive version was definitely on our Segway Human Transporter list. Also in the works: a specially designed device for use by Pope John Paul that will speed the aging pontiff around the Vatican and St. Peters Square. It's name: the Holy Segway Human Transporter. xponent Readable Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
In a message dated 12/28/2002 10:41:21 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After a year-long buildup during which it was known as the mysterious Ginger or IT, the revolutionary, scooter-like Segway Human Transporter was unveiled Monday without first being checked for its potential acronym. As a result, the media was full of Segway Human Transporter stories, Snip snip snipeee. It only transports one human at a time at a rate that's faster than walking, but slower than a car. It is an intermediary mode of transport. Go ahead and put the I in fur cwyist's sake. William Taylor - Current Rate of Applied Psychobabble. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
At 09:32 PM 12/28/02 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Opinion: Given: It is right and proper that the disabled be able to use powered personal mobility devices in pedestrian traffic. Resolved: Therefore, in the interest of equity, anyone should be able to use powered personal mobility devices wherever they are allowed. Most of the people that I know who are disabled, including my wife, could not use the Segway for more than a few minutes at a time. For my wife, using a Segway for 5 minutes would be as hard or harder than walking 5 minutes. A motorized wheelchair is much better for a handicapped person. I don't know what Dan's wife's specific problem is (and am not asking unless he wants to tell us), but for several years I had trouble with my knees¹, and at times I wore some sort of support on them (sometimes like those neoprene sleeves you sometimes see basketball players wearing) and sometimes I used a cane or walking stick when walking. While walking was uncomfortable, for me at least it was more uncomfortable to stand in one position for any length of time than to keep moving². Anyway, my point is that it looks like the person riding the Segway would be essentially standing still on the platform, which would probably make it uncomfortable for someone like me (when my knees were giving me trouble) to use it in lieu of walking. And from talking to other people with various disabilities, I think a significant number would agree with me on that. _ ¹Details, with big, tongue-twisting doctor-type words, available upon request. I thought it better not to burden this post with them. ²I got to the point that when I was going somewhere where I could expect to have to stand in line to along take one of those light folding stools like some people use when camping. Someone once gave me one of those canes which has a little seat which can be folded out but (1) it is not very steady when used as a stool, (2) the seat is awfully small (which may contribute to (1)), (3) it is awfully heavy, and (4) it has an annoying tendency to try to unfold into a stool while being used as a cane. OTOH, the folding stool was the right size when folded to attach to the backpack I often used, so it wasn't too inconvenient to take along. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 11:21:22PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Personally, I think they should have access to the bike lanes, rather than the sidewalks. The cyclists will teach 'em some manners right quick. Speaking of bikes, a much better solution in most cases than the Segway is a fold-up bike (Dahon, for eg.). You can take them on the train, and ride to/from work or home. You can ride in the street or bike lane so you don't hit pedestrians. And it is MUCH LESS than $5K, and probably safer in marginally slippery conditions. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Segway scooter hot seller online
On 28 Dec 2002 at 20:35, Doug Pensinger wrote: Marvin Long, Jr. wrote: On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Erik Reuter wrote: Sounds fine to me. Since it was your idea, you get the job of collecting the cat pee and pouring it into the squirt guns... I hear Harkonnen Inc. has a device that might be adaptable to our nefarious purpose...but we could probably concoct something sufficiently foul as a substitute. You guys sound like a tryst of old men sitting around a pickle barrel thinking of ways to injure skateboarders. Do you know anyone that commutes on mass transit that has to wait 10-15 minutes for a bus to take them the last mile or two? Do you know any older people that have trouble getting around and are thus limited as to where they can go? Do you know anyone that lives less than five miles from work and drives a behemoth vehicle that can seat eight and gets 15 mpg or less? Or are you just afraid of new tech? Doug Sheesh You know, there's one real low tech, quick and relatively easy to learn means of travel, which is a far lower investment and in many places far more viable (not crouded streets, or where roads arn't gridlocked and sometimes even then). I live 45 mins walk from Uni (30 mins to the main bit, but we CVG students are on the far side of a LARGE campus). Bus is £1.65 for a return, and they're becoming badly unreliable for various reasons. Yup, I'm getting some skates. I might LOOK stupid, but I bet I'll be able to make Uni in under 20 mins. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
