Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Rostislav Svoboda]

I just checked the http://clojure.org/cheatsheet seing there just the
old version without any tooltips. Would anyone put there a new one
with tooltips? Thx

Bost

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Greg Chapman]

On Mar 22, 10:18 pm, Andy Fingerhut  wrote:
> If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the 
> cheatsheet, especially _specific_ suggestions, feel free to send me email.

I was just looking at the clojure.org cheatsheet today and noticed
that it lacks links for both the type and the class functions. Seems
like both of those should be on there some place.

Greg

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

Just to follow up quickly, two possible ways have been suggested for doing 
this, but one way seems to require increasing the distance between words on the 
page, which I'd prefer not to do.  The other I haven't looked into in enough 
detail to see whether it will work, but I may do that soon.

As a potential workaround, would it suit your purposes nearly as well to make 
the font size larger?  That increases the area for which a particular tooltip 
shows up, at the cost of reducing how many symbols fit inside your browser 
window at one time.  Might be worth a try to see if you like it better.

Andy

On Mar 27, 2012, at 3:41 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> I would be happy to, if someone could teach me how to do it.  I didn't write 
> the JavaScript that does the tooltips -- I just took the TipTip jQuery plugin 
> and bashed away at it slightly until it did what I wanted.  I've tried using 
> "keepAlive: true" in the options it already implements to see if it does what 
> you want, but that behaves very strangely in my testing on Firefox 11.0 (see 
> [1] if you are curious).  I'm new to JavaScript, so what is possible to do 
> and how to do it are still mostly mysteries to me.
> 
> [1] 
> https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets/blob/master/src/clj-jvm/cheatsheet_files/jquery.tipTip.js
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mark wrote:
> 
>> Love the new cheatsheet!  Because no good deed go unpunished:  Can you make 
>> hiding the popup a little less sensitve?  I find myself looking at a popup 
>> and then unconsciously moving the mouse into the popup text and that causes 
>> the popup to disappear.

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[David Martin]

There is a jquery plugin called "hoverintent" which accomplishes this.
http://cherne.net/brian/resources/jquery.hoverIntent.html

-Dave

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> I would be happy to, if someone could teach me how to do it.  I didn't
> write the JavaScript that does the tooltips -- I just took the TipTip
> jQuery plugin and bashed away at it slightly until it did what I wanted.
>  I've tried using "keepAlive: true" in the options it already implements to
> see if it does what you want, but that behaves very strangely in my testing
> on Firefox 11.0 (see [1] if you are curious).  I'm new to JavaScript, so
> what is possible to do and how to do it are still mostly mysteries to me.
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets/blob/master/src/clj-jvm/cheatsheet_files/jquery.tipTip.js
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mark wrote:
>
> Love the new cheatsheet!  Because no good deed go unpunished:  Can you
> make hiding the popup a little less sensitve?  I find myself looking at a
> popup and then unconsciously moving the mouse into the popup text and that
> causes the popup to disappear.
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 2:25:17 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>
>> Welcome, Pierre.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on
>> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
>>
>> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find
>> them annoying:
>> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>>
>> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer
>> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
>> http://homepage.mac.com/**jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-**
>> clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/**cheatsheet-title-attribute.**html
>>
>> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like
>> me who like its look & feel better than (2).
>> http://homepage.mac.com/**jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-**
>> clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/**cheatsheet-full.html
>>
>> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from
>> the same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also
>> several variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but
>> no tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even
>> possible).  So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new
>> symbol or category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in
>> a minute.
>>
>> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be
>> "the one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one
>> version to another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
>>
>> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join
>> the ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of
>> these mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>>
>>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title
>>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line
>>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>>>
>>> [1] http://homepage.mac.com/​**jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​**
>>> clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​**cheatsheet-title-attribute.​**html
>>>
>>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should
>>> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those
>>> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool
>>> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but
>>> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>>>
>>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute,
>>> but they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the
>>> middle, in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not
>>> great.  Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>>
>> Andy,
>>
>> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control
>> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
>> This bug 
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/**show_bug.cgi?id=358452seems
>>  to be related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you
>> are looking for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't
>> fix it for other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>>
>> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I
>> think

Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Pierre Mariani]

You can do 2 things, together or separate depending on your choice:
-increase the area that will respond to the mouse hover, so you don't have 
to be exactly on the link to see the tooltip
-lengthen the fadeOut delay.

I have implemented both at the URL below.

http://pmariani.github.com/html-example/


On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:41:48 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> I would be happy to, if someone could teach me how to do it.  I didn't 
> write the JavaScript that does the tooltips -- I just took the TipTip 
> jQuery plugin and bashed away at it slightly until it did what I wanted. 
>  I've tried using "keepAlive: true" in the options it already implements to 
> see if it does what you want, but that behaves very strangely in my testing 
> on Firefox 11.0 (see [1] if you are curious).  I'm new to JavaScript, so 
> what is possible to do and how to do it are still mostly mysteries to me.
>
> [1] 
> https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets/blob/master/src/clj-jvm/cheatsheet_files/jquery.tipTip.js
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mark wrote:
>
> Love the new cheatsheet!  Because no good deed go unpunished:  Can you 
> make hiding the popup a little less sensitve?  I find myself looking at a 
> popup and then unconsciously moving the mouse into the popup text and that 
> causes the popup to disappear.
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 2:25:17 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>
>> Welcome, Pierre.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on 
>> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
>>
>> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find 
>> them annoying:
>> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>>
>> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
>> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
>> 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>>
>> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like 
>> me who like its look & feel better than (2).
>> 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
>>
>> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from 
>> the same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also 
>> several variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but 
>> no tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even 
>> possible).  So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new 
>> symbol or category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in 
>> a minute.
>>
>> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be 
>> "the one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one 
>> version to another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
>>
>> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join 
>> the ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of 
>> these mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>>
>>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>>>
>>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should 
>>> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those 
>>> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool 
>>> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but 
>>> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>>>
>>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, 
>>> but they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the 
>>> middle, in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not 
>>> great.  Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>>
>> Andy,
>>
>> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
>> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
>> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
>> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
>> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
>> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>>
>> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
>> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 

Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[John Gabriele]

On Mar 26, 5:25 pm, Andy Fingerhut  wrote:
>
> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
> who like its look & feel better than (2).
>    http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-t...
>

I like #3 as well, though would prefer a darkish gray background
rather than black. White text on black background is too high-
contrast, IMO.

---John

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andrea Chiavazza]

Would you consider removing the underlining from all links ?
>
> I think it would look much better,

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

I would be happy to, if someone could teach me how to do it.  I didn't write 
the JavaScript that does the tooltips -- I just took the TipTip jQuery plugin 
and bashed away at it slightly until it did what I wanted.  I've tried using 
"keepAlive: true" in the options it already implements to see if it does what 
you want, but that behaves very strangely in my testing on Firefox 11.0 (see 
[1] if you are curious).  I'm new to JavaScript, so what is possible to do and 
how to do it are still mostly mysteries to me.

[1] 
https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets/blob/master/src/clj-jvm/cheatsheet_files/jquery.tipTip.js

Andy

On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mark wrote:

> Love the new cheatsheet!  Because no good deed go unpunished:  Can you make 
> hiding the popup a little less sensitve?  I find myself looking at a popup 
> and then unconsciously moving the mouse into the popup text and that causes 
> the popup to disappear.
> 
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 2:25:17 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
> Welcome, Pierre.
> 
> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on 
> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
> 
> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them 
> annoying:
> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
> 
> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
> 
> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
> who like its look & feel better than (2).
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
> 
> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the 
> same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several 
> variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no 
> tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible).  
> So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or 
> category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.
> 
> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the 
> one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to 
> another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
> 
> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the 
> ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these 
> mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>> [1] 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>> 
>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go? 
>>  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just 
>> show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I 
>> have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems 
>> to be ignoring those.
>> 
>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
>> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
>> addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
>> there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>> 
>> Andy,
>> 
>> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
>> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
>> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
>> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
>> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
>> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>> 
>> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
>> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
>> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
>> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like this 
>> in the future.
>> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
>> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
>> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
>> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that would 
>> ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best accessibil

Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Mark]

Love the new cheatsheet!  Because no good deed go unpunished:  Can you make 
hiding the popup a little less sensitve?  I find myself looking at a popup 
and then unconsciously moving the mouse into the popup text and that causes 
the popup to disappear.

On Monday, March 26, 2012 2:25:17 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> Welcome, Pierre.
>
> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on 
> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
>
> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them 
> annoying:
> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>
> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>
> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like 
> me who like its look & feel better than (2).
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
>
> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the 
> same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several 
> variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no 
> tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible). 
>  So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or 
> category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.
>
> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the 
> one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to 
> another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
>
> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the 
> ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these 
> mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>
>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>>
>> [1] 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>>
>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should 
>> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those 
>> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool 
>> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but 
>> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>>
>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, 
>> but they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the 
>> middle, in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not 
>> great.  Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>>
>> Andy
>>
> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>
> Andy,
>
> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>
> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like 
> this in the future.
> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that 
> would ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best 
> accessibility for visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser 
> behavior.
>
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp
>
> Pierre 
>
>

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[David Martin]

"There can be only one." :-)
I prefer #3 as well.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> Welcome, Pierre.
>
> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on
> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
>
> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them
> annoying:
> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>
> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer
> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>
> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like
> me who like its look & feel better than (2).
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
>
> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the
> same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several
> variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no
> tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible).
>  So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or
> category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.
>
> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the
> one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to
> another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
>
> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the
> ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these
> mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>
>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title
>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line
>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>>
>> [1]
>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>>
>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should
>> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those
>> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool
>> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but
>> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>>
>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute,
>> but they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the
>> middle, in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not
>> great.  Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>>
>> Andy
>>
> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>
> Andy,
>
> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control
> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be
> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking
> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for
> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>
> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I
> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title'
> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted
> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like
> this in the future.
> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the
> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at
> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript
> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that
> would ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best
> accessibility for visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser
> behavior.
>
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp
>
> Pierre
>
>  --
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> your first post.
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Frank Siebenlist]

Forgot to add that we only need one cheatsheet, and I vote for (3).


On Mar 27, 2012, at 7:55 AM, Frank Siebenlist wrote:

>> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
>> who like its look & feel better than (2).
>>
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
> 
> 
> I like that one - looks cool - very helpful!!
> 
> Thanks, Frank.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 26, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
> 
>> Welcome, Pierre.
>> 
>> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on 
>> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
>> 
>> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them 
>> annoying:
>>http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
>> 
>> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
>> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
>>
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>> 
>> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
>> who like its look & feel better than (2).
>>
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
>> 
>> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the 
>> same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several 
>> variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no 
>> tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible).  
>> So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or 
>> category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.
>> 
>> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the 
>> one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to 
>> another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
>> 
>> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the 
>> ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these 
>> mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>>> [1] 
>>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>>> 
>>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should 
>>> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those 
>>> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool 
>>> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but 
>>> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>>> 
>>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
>>> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, 
>>> in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  
>>> Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>>> 
>>> Andy,
>>> 
>>> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
>>> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
>>> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
>>> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
>>> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
>>> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>>> 
>>> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
>>> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
>>> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
>>> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like 
>>> this in the future.
>>> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
>>> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
>>> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
>>> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that 
>>> would ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best 
>>> accessibility for visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser 
>>> behavior.
>>> 
>>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
>>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
>>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
>>> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp
>>> 
>>> Pierre 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to t

Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Frank Siebenlist]

> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
> who like its look & feel better than (2).
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html


I like that one - looks cool - very helpful!!

Thanks, Frank.



On Mar 26, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

> Welcome, Pierre.
> 
> Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on 
> clojure.org two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:
> 
> (1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them 
> annoying:
> http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
> 
> (2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
> web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
> 
> (3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me 
> who like its look & feel better than (2).
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html
> 
> The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the 
> same program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several 
> variations of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no 
> tooltips in the PDF -- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible).  
> So far, it is still pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or 
> category to the cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.
> 
> There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the 
> one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to 
> another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.
> 
> And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the 
> ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these 
> mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>> [1] 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>> 
>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go? 
>>  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just 
>> show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I 
>> have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems 
>> to be ignoring those.
>> 
>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
>> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
>> addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
>> there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
>> 
>> Andy,
>> 
>> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
>> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
>> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
>> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
>> for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
>> other browsers, or older versions of FF.
>> 
>> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
>> think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
>> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
>> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like this 
>> in the future.
>> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
>> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
>> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
>> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that would 
>> ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best accessibility for 
>> visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser behavior.
>> 
>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
>> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
>> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp
>> 
>> Pierre 
> 
> -- 
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> For more o

Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

Welcome, Pierre.

Thanks for the info.  My current thinking is to start publishing on clojure.org 
two, or maybe even three versions of the cheatsheet:

(1) no tooltips, just like the one published now, in case people find them 
annoying:
http://clojure.org/cheatsheet

(2) tooltips with the title attribute, for those that prefer 
web-standards-compliant pages, such as this one:

http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html

(3) tooltips using a modified TipTip jQuery plugin tool, for people like me who 
like its look & feel better than (2).

http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-full.html

The nice thing is that all three of these are currently generated from the same 
program.  Not only are those three pages generated, but also several variations 
of A4-size and US letter-size PDF files, with links (but no tooltips in the PDF 
-- I don't know how to do that if it is even possible).  So far, it is still 
pretty straightforward for me to add a new symbol or category to the 
cheatsheet, and regenerate all of these things in a minute.

There shouldn't need to be any argument over which of these should be "the 
one".  I say publish them all, with an easy way to get from one version to 
another in case you change your mind which one you want to use.

And if I am stretching what a tooltip is meant to be, and thereby join the 
ranks of web-standards-heathens who stretch the original intent of these 
mechanisms, I do so proudly :-)

Andy

On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Pierre Mariani wrote:

> 
> 
> On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
> [1] 
> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
> 
> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go?  
> If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just show 
> up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I have 
> line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems to be 
> ignoring those.
> 
> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
> addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
> there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
> 
> Andy
> 
> This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
> their aspect with HTML or CSS.
> This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
> related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking for 
> should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for other 
> browsers, or older versions of FF.
> 
> Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I think 
> the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
> attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
> text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like this 
> in the future.
> I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
> corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
> screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
> code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that would 
> ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best accessibility for 
> visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser behavior.
> 
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp
> 
> Pierre 

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Pierre Mariani]

On Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:59:49 PM UTC-7, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>
> [1] 
> http://homepage.mac.com/​jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-​clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/​cheatsheet-title-attribute.​html
>
> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should 
> go?  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those 
> just show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool 
> tip.  I have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but 
> Firefox seems to be ignoring those.
>
> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, 
> but they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the 
> middle, in addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not 
> great.  Is there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
>
> Andy
>
This is my first post to the list, so hi everybody!

Andy,

Tooltips are being rendered by the browser itself and you cannot control 
their aspect with HTML or CSS.
This bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358452 seems to be 
related to your issue, and it indicates that the behavior you are looking 
for should be implemented in FF12. Unfortunately, that doesn't fix it for 
other browsers, or older versions of FF.

Sorry if it sounds critical and isn't very helpful at this stage, but I 
think the concept of tooltip is being stretched a little here. The 'title' 
attribute is not meant to contain one or several paragraphs of formatted 
text, and as such I would expect that you may run into more issues like 
this in the future.
I would personally use DL lists, have each function name in a DT and the 
corresponding docstring in a DD. I would then have a CSS sheet targeted at 
screen and handheld media hide the docstrings, and I would have javascript 
code show them on mouse hover and hide them on mouse out. I think that 
would ensure best semantical fit of content to HTML tags, best 
accessibility for visually impaired people, and reliable cross-browser 
behavior.

http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dl.html
http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dt.html
http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/lists/dd.html
http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp

Pierre 

>

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Moritz Ulrich]

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 20:40, DHM  wrote:
> Um... I don't want this to devolve into an argument, but can I voice
> my support for going with the full docstring tooltip?
> Having tried it, it seems really useful to me, and I don't see the
> reason to reduce the text to something shorter. I don't think the size
> of the docstrings is inappropriate for a tooltip.

I totally agree. Shortening the docstrings even more is *way* too much
work for everyone. Why should anyone do this when the docstrings are
short enough to perfectly fit into the tooltip?

Another point which favors docstring-in-tooltip: You can simply save
the html on your disk for easy-to-use offline access. No need to
deep-mirror a whole site.

-- 
Moritz Ulrich

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[DHM]

>
> > Remind me again: why do you want to put much of the docstring in
> > there, and not just a quick precis that's enough to jog someone's
> > memory and/or let them know whether they ought to click through or
> > should skip that one based on what they're trying to find?
>
> I like that what I see in the tip is the original doc string I would get if I 
> typed (doc some-symbol) in a REPL session.  If those doc strings change in 
> later versions of Clojure, I can rerun my cheatsheet generator program and 
> pick up all those changes in seconds.
>
> If you want to write a quick precis for what are now 633 symbols with links 
> on the cheatsheet, you are welcome to do it.  I don't want to.  The source 
> code for the cheatsheet generator is under the Eclipse Public License and 
> available to you:
>
> [1]https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets
>
> Andy

Um... I don't want this to devolve into an argument, but can I voice
my support for going with the full docstring tooltip?
Having tried it, it seems really useful to me, and I don't see the
reason to reduce the text to something shorter. I don't think the size
of the docstrings is inappropriate for a tooltip.
Also, I've messed around with jQuery tooltip plugins in the past, and
it shouldn't be hard to fix the 'flickering' issue, if not with tiptip
then by using a different plugin. If you like I can take a crack at
this.

-Dave

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

On Mar 25, 2012, at 12:15 AM, Cedric Greevey wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Andy Fingerhut
>  wrote:
>> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
>> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
>> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>> 
>> [1] 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>> 
>> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go? 
>>  If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just 
>> show up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I 
>> have line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems 
>> to be ignoring those.
>> 
>> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
>> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
>> addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
>> there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?
> 
> Remind me again: why do you want to put much of the docstring in
> there, and not just a quick precis that's enough to jog someone's
> memory and/or let them know whether they ought to click through or
> should skip that one based on what they're trying to find?

I like that what I see in the tip is the original doc string I would get if I 
typed (doc some-symbol) in a REPL session.  If those doc strings change in 
later versions of Clojure, I can rerun my cheatsheet generator program and pick 
up all those changes in seconds.

If you want to write a quick precis for what are now 633 symbols with links on 
the cheatsheet, you are welcome to do it.  I don't want to.  The source code 
for the cheatsheet generator is under the Eclipse Public License and available 
to you:

[1] https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets

Andy

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[DHM]

On Mar 24, 6:32 pm, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM, David Martin  wrote:
> > I agree that title attribute is the way to go. You shouldn't use the alt
> > attribute for tooltips though, as this violates accessibility standards. Alt
> > should either contain a literal description of the image, or be left empty.
>
> Be sure to tell xkcd that. (Why can't it be both?)

Actually in this case, putting the docstring in the alt attribute
seems appropriate, because that's what a visually impaired user would
want to see (hear?).
Anyway it's a moot point, since the cheatsheet doesn't use images. :-)

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Cedric Greevey]

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
> attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line 
> breaks in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:
>
> [1] 
> http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html
>
> Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go?  
> If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just show 
> up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I have 
> line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems to be 
> ignoring those.
>
> Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
> they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
> addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
> there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?

Remind me again: why do you want to put much of the docstring in
there, and not just a quick precis that's enough to jog someone's
memory and/or let them know whether they ought to click through or
should skip that one based on what they're trying to find?

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

I've tried again using links with doc strings as the values of the title 
attribute, but when the text in Firefox 11.0 it does not honor the line breaks 
in my text, but reflows it.  Try it out yourself at [1]:

[1] 
http://homepage.mac.com/jafingerhut/files/cheatsheet-clj-1.3.0-v1.4-tooltips/cheatsheet-title-attribute.html

Is there a way that Firefox will let me specify where line breaks should go?  
If I put  or  tags in the text of a title attribute, those just show 
up literally in the text that the browser displays in the tool tip.  I have 
line breaks in the title attribute value in my HTML, but Firefox seems to be 
ignoring those.

Safari and Chrome seem to honor the line breaks in the title attribute, but 
they make the popup windows so narrow that the lines break in the middle, in 
addition to where I put my line breaks, which is better but not great.  Is 
there a way to tell the browser to make the popup windows wider?

Andy

On Mar 24, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM, David Martin  wrote:
>> I agree that title attribute is the way to go. You shouldn't use the alt
>> attribute for tooltips though, as this violates accessibility standards. Alt
>> should either contain a literal description of the image, or be left empty.
> 
> Be sure to tell xkcd that. (Why can't it be both?)
> 
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Cedric Greevey]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM, David Martin  wrote:
> I agree that title attribute is the way to go. You shouldn't use the alt
> attribute for tooltips though, as this violates accessibility standards. Alt
> should either contain a literal description of the image, or be left empty.

Be sure to tell xkcd that. (Why can't it be both?)

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[David Martin]

I agree that title attribute is the way to go. You shouldn't use the alt
attribute for tooltips though, as this violates accessibility standards.
Alt should either contain a literal description of the image, or be left
empty.
On Mar 23, 2012 1:11 PM, "Cedric Greevey"  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Andy Fingerhut
>  wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestions, folks.
> >
> > Cedric, have you tried your method before?  I'm not sure, but I think it
> was
> > the thing that I tried that led me to add (b) to my list of preference.
> I
> > like anything that makes the development job easier, but not if it
> violates
> > that preference.
>
> The tooltip could, in principle, extend beyond the browser window, but
> the link would have to be at the far right edge of the window, the
> text would have to be long or the pointer would have to be near the
> right edge of the link, AND the browser window would have to,
> bizarrely, not be maximized.
>
> In particular, if you fear that the tooltip would extend beyond the
> screen edge so half of it wasn't displayed at all, that won't happen
> -- at least, not in Firefox.
>
> The last time I saw it the cheat sheet's main content occupied a
> vertical strip with fairly wide margins left and right. Unless you're
> putting the full text of the Declaration of Independence into one of
> the tooltips I don't see there being much likelihood of a problem
> there.
>
> Furthermore, eschewing standard tooltips and using JS or something to
> roll your own would likely render the tooltips inaccessible (or worse,
> confusing) with screen-reader software for the visually impaired.
>
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Cedric Greevey]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> I'm not putting the Declaration of Independence in the tooltips, but the
> Clojure doc strings, with the same text width as they appear in the original,
> which is nearly 80 characters wide.

I'd suggest not using the full docstring, but something like the first
sentence or so of the docstring, or even a briefer paraphrase.

For example, for disj, map, and for, respectively, I'd suggest something like:

Returns a copy of a set that does not contain specified keys.

Iterates over a coll, or several colls in tandem, collecting the
results of applying a fn.

General sequence comprehensions (macro).

The main purpose is to let someone quickly gauge whether the link
they're hovering over is for the thing they're looking for. So it
suffices for the description to either jog their memory, if they've
seen it before, and give a quick precis of what it does or is used for
regardless. The tooltip text doesn't need to be the full
documentation; just enough information to guide a decision whether to
click through to the full documentation or not.

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

I'm not putting the Declaration of Independence in the tooltips, but the
Clojure doc strings,
with the same text width as they appear in the original, which is nearly 80
characters wide.  Those are easily wide enough to go partially out of the
browser window unless the browser takes pains not to do so, and my earlier
experiments suggest they do not, or at least one of Firefox and Safari
doesn't.

It may be straightforward to generate two different tooltip-enabled version
of the cheatsheet: one for the standards-devout, and one for those who want
something that looks visually nice today, and users can pick the one they
want to use (oh, and a third that has no tooltips at all, like today's
version, in case they find them too distracting).  I'm not feeling
especially energetic about getting browser developers to change how they
implement these things.

Andy


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Cedric Greevey  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Andy Fingerhut
>  wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestions, folks.
> >
> > Cedric, have you tried your method before?  I'm not sure, but I think it
> was
> > the thing that I tried that led me to add (b) to my list of preference.
> I
> > like anything that makes the development job easier, but not if it
> violates
> > that preference.
>
> The tooltip could, in principle, extend beyond the browser window, but
> the link would have to be at the far right edge of the window, the
> text would have to be long or the pointer would have to be near the
> right edge of the link, AND the browser window would have to,
> bizarrely, not be maximized.
>
> In particular, if you fear that the tooltip would extend beyond the
> screen edge so half of it wasn't displayed at all, that won't happen
> -- at least, not in Firefox.
>
> The last time I saw it the cheat sheet's main content occupied a
> vertical strip with fairly wide margins left and right. Unless you're
> putting the full text of the Declaration of Independence into one of
> the tooltips I don't see there being much likelihood of a problem
> there.
>
> Furthermore, eschewing standard tooltips and using JS or something to
> roll your own would likely render the tooltips inaccessible (or worse,
> confusing) with screen-reader software for the visually impaired.
>
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Cedric Greevey]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions, folks.
>
> Cedric, have you tried your method before?  I'm not sure, but I think it was
> the thing that I tried that led me to add (b) to my list of preference.  I
> like anything that makes the development job easier, but not if it violates
> that preference.

The tooltip could, in principle, extend beyond the browser window, but
the link would have to be at the far right edge of the window, the
text would have to be long or the pointer would have to be near the
right edge of the link, AND the browser window would have to,
bizarrely, not be maximized.

In particular, if you fear that the tooltip would extend beyond the
screen edge so half of it wasn't displayed at all, that won't happen
-- at least, not in Firefox.

The last time I saw it the cheat sheet's main content occupied a
vertical strip with fairly wide margins left and right. Unless you're
putting the full text of the Declaration of Independence into one of
the tooltips I don't see there being much likelihood of a problem
there.

Furthermore, eschewing standard tooltips and using JS or something to
roll your own would likely render the tooltips inaccessible (or worse,
confusing) with screen-reader software for the visually impaired.

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks.

Cedric, have you tried your method before?  I'm not sure, but I think it
was the thing that I tried that led me to add (b) to my list of
preference.  I like anything that makes the development job easier, but not
if it violates that preference.

Thanks,
Andy

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Cedric Greevey  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Andy Fingerhut
>  wrote:
> > I definitely like the tooltip idea.  I like it so much that I've already
> played with it a bit, looking at several web pages with instructions for
> how to do it, but my knowledge of good ways to do this is zero except for
> the results of those Google searches.
> >
> > Has anyone implemented tooltips on a web page?  My preferences for a
> solution are:
> >
> > (a) No interaction with the web server required to get the tooltip
> contents, i.e. as far as the server is concerned, it is a static file web
> page.  Hopefully this means it has a very fast reaction time when the user
> interacts with it to show or take down the tooltips.
> >
> > (b) Tooltips always appear within the browser window, never sometimes
> partially in it and partially outside it.
> >
> > (c) Tooltips appear while your mouse is hovered over a link, and
> disappear as soon as the mouse moves away from that link.
> >
> > (d) works with most current web browsers (e.g. latest Firefox, Chrome,
> Safari, IE).
> >
> > (e) No $$ or legal encumbrances to use it.
>
> Without even messing around with JS, let alone AJAX or other stuff
> that involves trips to the server for more data, you can give tooltips
> to links and images with plain HTML:
>
> link text here
> 
>
> In text-mode browsers, if anyone still uses such things, the images
> will additionally show as their tooltip texts rather than just the
> opaque and useless placeholder text "[IMAGE]".
>

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Cedric Greevey]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> I definitely like the tooltip idea.  I like it so much that I've already 
> played with it a bit, looking at several web pages with instructions for how 
> to do it, but my knowledge of good ways to do this is zero except for the 
> results of those Google searches.
>
> Has anyone implemented tooltips on a web page?  My preferences for a solution 
> are:
>
> (a) No interaction with the web server required to get the tooltip contents, 
> i.e. as far as the server is concerned, it is a static file web page.  
> Hopefully this means it has a very fast reaction time when the user interacts 
> with it to show or take down the tooltips.
>
> (b) Tooltips always appear within the browser window, never sometimes 
> partially in it and partially outside it.
>
> (c) Tooltips appear while your mouse is hovered over a link, and disappear as 
> soon as the mouse moves away from that link.
>
> (d) works with most current web browsers (e.g. latest Firefox, Chrome, 
> Safari, IE).
>
> (e) No $$ or legal encumbrances to use it.

Without even messing around with JS, let alone AJAX or other stuff
that involves trips to the server for more data, you can give tooltips
to links and images with plain HTML:

link text here


In text-mode browsers, if anyone still uses such things, the images
will additionally show as their tooltip texts rather than just the
opaque and useless placeholder text "[IMAGE]".

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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Jordan Berg]

It would be straightforward in clojurescript as well.  Google provides a
bunch of different tooltips in the closure library:

http://closure-library.googlecode.com/svn/docs/class_goog_ui_Tooltip.html

http://closure-library.googlecode.com/svn/docs/class_goog_ui_AdvancedTooltip.html

http://closure-library.googlecode.com/svn/docs/class_goog_ui_HoverCard.html


You can always edit the default CSS to make them look less...crappy

Cheers,

Jordan


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:18 AM, László Török  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think Twitter's Bootstrap toolkit is sg to consider.
>
> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#tooltips
>
> also
>
> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#popovers
>
> I already used them, they're easy and fun to implement. :)
> I think if the content already appers somewhere on the page, you can
> simply reference it using it's element id.
> hope it helps
> Las
>
> 2012/3/23 Andy Fingerhut 
>
>> I definitely like the tooltip idea.  I like it so much that I've already
>> played with it a bit, looking at several web pages with instructions for
>> how to do it, but my knowledge of good ways to do this is zero except for
>> the results of those Google searches.
>>
>> Has anyone implemented tooltips on a web page?  My preferences for a
>> solution are:
>>
>> (a) No interaction with the web server required to get the tooltip
>> contents, i.e. as far as the server is concerned, it is a static file web
>> page.  Hopefully this means it has a very fast reaction time when the user
>> interacts with it to show or take down the tooltips.
>>
>> (b) Tooltips always appear within the browser window, never sometimes
>> partially in it and partially outside it.
>>
>> (c) Tooltips appear while your mouse is hovered over a link, and
>> disappear as soon as the mouse moves away from that link.
>>
>> (d) works with most current web browsers (e.g. latest Firefox, Chrome,
>> Safari, IE).
>>
>> (e) No $$ or legal encumbrances to use it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andy
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2012, at 3:45 AM, Rostislav Svoboda wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Andy
>> >
>> >> If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the
>> cheatsheet
>> >
>> > It'd be great to have a tooltip appearing at every function I go over
>> > with my mouse. Typically I click on a function just to realize "Oh,
>> > this is not the one I need" so I have to go back. And this back &
>> > forth repeats several times. IMO tooltips would make such a search
>> > much faster and smoother. (Thx in advance)
>> >
>> > Bost
>> >
>> > --
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>> your first post.
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>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[László Török]

Hi,

I think Twitter's Bootstrap toolkit is sg to consider.

http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#tooltips

also

http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#popovers

I already used them, they're easy and fun to implement. :)
I think if the content already appers somewhere on the page, you can simply
reference it using it's element id.
hope it helps
Las

2012/3/23 Andy Fingerhut 

> I definitely like the tooltip idea.  I like it so much that I've already
> played with it a bit, looking at several web pages with instructions for
> how to do it, but my knowledge of good ways to do this is zero except for
> the results of those Google searches.
>
> Has anyone implemented tooltips on a web page?  My preferences for a
> solution are:
>
> (a) No interaction with the web server required to get the tooltip
> contents, i.e. as far as the server is concerned, it is a static file web
> page.  Hopefully this means it has a very fast reaction time when the user
> interacts with it to show or take down the tooltips.
>
> (b) Tooltips always appear within the browser window, never sometimes
> partially in it and partially outside it.
>
> (c) Tooltips appear while your mouse is hovered over a link, and disappear
> as soon as the mouse moves away from that link.
>
> (d) works with most current web browsers (e.g. latest Firefox, Chrome,
> Safari, IE).
>
> (e) No $$ or legal encumbrances to use it.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
> On Mar 23, 2012, at 3:45 AM, Rostislav Svoboda wrote:
>
> > Hi Andy
> >
> >> If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the
> cheatsheet
> >
> > It'd be great to have a tooltip appearing at every function I go over
> > with my mouse. Typically I click on a function just to realize "Oh,
> > this is not the one I need" so I have to go back. And this back &
> > forth repeats several times. IMO tooltips would make such a search
> > much faster and smoother. (Thx in advance)
> >
> > Bost
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

I definitely like the tooltip idea.  I like it so much that I've already played 
with it a bit, looking at several web pages with instructions for how to do it, 
but my knowledge of good ways to do this is zero except for the results of 
those Google searches.

Has anyone implemented tooltips on a web page?  My preferences for a solution 
are:

(a) No interaction with the web server required to get the tooltip contents, 
i.e. as far as the server is concerned, it is a static file web page.  
Hopefully this means it has a very fast reaction time when the user interacts 
with it to show or take down the tooltips.

(b) Tooltips always appear within the browser window, never sometimes partially 
in it and partially outside it.

(c) Tooltips appear while your mouse is hovered over a link, and disappear as 
soon as the mouse moves away from that link.

(d) works with most current web browsers (e.g. latest Firefox, Chrome, Safari, 
IE).

(e) No $$ or legal encumbrances to use it.

Thanks,
Andy

On Mar 23, 2012, at 3:45 AM, Rostislav Svoboda wrote:

> Hi Andy
> 
>> If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the 
>> cheatsheet
> 
> It'd be great to have a tooltip appearing at every function I go over
> with my mouse. Typically I click on a function just to realize "Oh,
> this is not the one I need" so I have to go back. And this back &
> forth repeats several times. IMO tooltips would make such a search
> much faster and smoother. (Thx in advance)
> 
> Bost
> 
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Re: New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Rostislav Svoboda]

Hi Andy

> If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the 
> cheatsheet

It'd be great to have a tooltip appearing at every function I go over
with my mouse. Typically I click on a function just to realize "Oh,
this is not the one I need" so I have to go back. And this back &
forth repeats several times. IMO tooltips would make such a search
much faster and smoother. (Thx in advance)

Bost

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New(er) Clojure cheatsheet hot off the presses

[Andy Fingerhut]

Alex Miller not only organizes conferences that are a blast to attend (i.e. 
Clojure/West, and I'm inclined to believe Strange Loop would be cool, too), he 
also puts up new versions of the Clojure cheatsheet when I ask him nicely.  
Here it is, in the usual place:

http://clojure.org/cheatsheet

Listed below are things that have changed since the version first published in 
late February.  A couple of the changes I list for cheatsheet version 1.3 
weren't in the previously published version, simply because I wasn't very 
fastidious about keeping my version numbers straight.

As before, most of the links go to the documentation on clojuredocs.org, which 
include not only the official built-in documentation, but also user-contributed 
examples and "see alsos".  Anyone willing to create a free ClojureDocs account 
and write more examples is welcome to do so.

If anyone has suggestions for what you would like to see added to the 
cheatsheet, especially _specific_ suggestions, feel free to send me email.  I'm 
especially interested in a short sweet example of extend-protocol in the style 
of the examples already on the sheet, any good links you would recommend to 
teach people how and when to use zippers, and a good tutorial on how to parse, 
extract data from, modify, and generate XML in Clojure.

Andy

--
March 22, 2012 - Clojure 1.3.0, sheet v1.4

Added (tutorial) entries in Namespace/Create and Loading/Load Libs
sections that link to this nice article:

http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html

Added links to more details on regular expressions in the
Strings/Regex section:
http://www.regular-expressions.info
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html

Added to Strings section: java.lang.String (abbreviated String in PDF
version to fit better) .indexOf .lastIndexOf, with links to
java.lang.String doc page.

Added to Collections/Lists and Vectors sections: .indexOf and
.lastIndexOf, with links to similar methods documented for
java.util.Vector.

Changed heading Destructuring in Special Forms section to "Binding
Forms / Destructuring", for people who might know it by one name but
not the other.

Added to Maps/Create: group-by
Added to IO/from reader: read

Added Numbers/Literals section with examples of literal syntax for
BigInt, Ratio, and BigDecimal.

Removed :doc from Metadata/Common section and added :const instead.
Doc strings are more commonly handled with the normal way to put them
in def or defn forms.

--
2012 Feb 23 - Clojure 1.3.0, sheet v1.3

Added new section Destructuring, with a link to a page containing
examples on clojure.org, and a list of the most commonly-used macros
that allow destructuring to be used within them.

Added biginteger, clojure.java.io/file and copy, and link to fs
project on GitHub for file manipulation functions.

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