Re: Stus-List Stupid Club

[David Lenehan via CnC-List]

This is such an interesting thread that I thought I'd expose myself to some
laughter too.  As a matter of added interest, I joined the Stupid Club on
the day after I joined the Hypocrit's Club.

Years ago I had a lovely long line that I decided I'd use as a genoa
sheet.  It was a beautiful length of brand new polyester braid back when
polyester rope was still something of a novelty.  I sat back and admired my
work noting that the sheet was a bit longer than it needed to be.

"Not to worry," I told myself smugly, "I'll sort that out later."

The next morning we were motoring out for our race.  I was a first year
skipper in my first keel boat.  We were far ahead in the standings and only
had to finish this race to take home the silverware.  I was dreaming of the
glory instead of watching what everyone was doing.  I instructed the crew
to set up as we usually did and one of the inexperienced crew dropped the
end of the genoa sheet over the side and didn't recover it immediately.

Yes, you guessed it!  It wrapped itself around the prop and the shaft shaft
and we started taking on water.  Large volumes of it.  Didn't start the
race, didn't take the trophy home and nearly didn't get the boat home
either.  The list of damage it caused is too long to tell but it cost a
fortune and did some serious ego bashing.  A host of lessons learned.

Red faced for months,
David

On 20 May 2015 at 14:47, Knowles Rich via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I used my 7 litre Pela vacuum extractor to empty the sump on my 3QM30 one
> fall and then kicked it over on the way up the companionway. Had to yank
> the sole and swab out the engine compartment. About three hours as I
> recall. Nice!
>
> Rich
>
>
> On May 19, 2015, at 19:08, Chuck S via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> I left the oil cap off once.  Ran the boat hard for 6 hours before I
> noticed.  Also had the mess.
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>
> --
> *From: *"robert via CnC-List" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"robert" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:23:50 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List Rig - crack?
>
> Wally:
> I have no problem admitting to my mental limitationsif I were that
> smart, I wouldn't be sailing a 31 year old boat and I wouldn't be doing
> all of the maintenance/work myself.  Possibly explains why I am a big
> fan of the C&C list.
>
> Here's another example of 'stupid'..changed the engine oil last Fall
> just before haul outstarted the engine after the oil change but just
> long enough to hear the engine alarm go 'off'launched this Spring
> and went for a half hour motor before docking.noticed some oil in
> the bilgenow we get to the 'stupid'..forgot to put the oil cap
> back on the to of the engine last Fall after the oil changesome oil
> spurted out of the top of the engine and made a mess all the way to the
> bilge.
>
> Had a big clean up.I am a full member of the 'stupid club' and
> freely admit it!
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2015-05-14 11:04 PM, Wally Bryant via CnC-List wrote:
> > you wrote:
> >> Steve:
> >>  Instantly, now I feel stupid
> >
> > Welcome to the club.
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> > bottom of page at:
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> >
>
>
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>
>
>
> Rich Knowles
> Nanaimo, BC
> INDIGO LF38
> Almost sold in Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List Stupid Club

[Knowles Rich via CnC-List]

I used my 7 litre Pela vacuum extractor to empty the sump on my 3QM30 one fall 
and then kicked it over on the way up the companionway. Had to yank the sole 
and swab out the engine compartment. About three hours as I recall. Nice!

Rich 


On May 19, 2015, at 19:08, Chuck S via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I left the oil cap off once.  Ran the boat hard for 6 hours before I noticed.  
Also had the mess.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

From: "robert via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "robert" 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:23:50 PM
Subject: Stus-List Rig - crack?

Wally:
I have no problem admitting to my mental limitationsif I were that 
smart, I wouldn't be sailing a 31 year old boat and I wouldn't be doing 
all of the maintenance/work myself.  Possibly explains why I am a big 
fan of the C&C list.

Here's another example of 'stupid'..changed the engine oil last Fall 
just before haul outstarted the engine after the oil change but just 
long enough to hear the engine alarm go 'off'launched this Spring 
and went for a half hour motor before docking.noticed some oil in 
the bilgenow we get to the 'stupid'..forgot to put the oil cap 
back on the to of the engine last Fall after the oil changesome oil 
spurted out of the top of the engine and made a mess all the way to the 
bilge.

Had a big clean up.I am a full member of the 'stupid club' and 
freely admit it!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-05-14 11:04 PM, Wally Bryant via CnC-List wrote:
> you wrote:
>> Steve:
>>  Instantly, now I feel stupid
>
> Welcome to the club.
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the 
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>


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Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
INDIGO LF38
Almost sold in Halifax, NS.





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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Ahh, yes, the old condom in the hot tub pump problem.


you wrote:

  I had a hot tub that
>would heal itself on occasion after a brief group hug!



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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 112, Issue 52

[OldSteveH via CnC-List]

Thanks for all comments so far. 
I was assuming that the prop was not unfolding and although that may still
be the problem, it is unlikely. The cable sounds like a much more likely
culprit.
I will go do all the requisite troubleshooting. I have a Yanmar manual so
that should help as well.


Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON


--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 19:15:41 -0400
From: "Jean-Francois J Rivard" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List  Problem with reverse
Message-ID: <201505192316.t4jngcoe003...@d03av01.boulder.ibm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Steve, 

I run a 3GM30F with a Kanzaki transmission and had a similar issue. 

The problem was a situation where the putting the gear lever in the full 
reverse position did not quite fully engage reverse on the transmission. 
The cable was somehow out of adjustment and simple corrective adjustment 
did the trick.  If I remember right, the adjustment closest to where the 
actual metal cable exits the sheath was the right one to use / had much 
more range than the other near the shift lever on the transmission (I 
tried both). 

The fix:  Move the trans shift lever all the way to the reverse stopping 
point by hand  / adjust the cable until it pulls (Or push? )  it all the 
way to the stop as well.  The Yanmar manual explains the operation of the 
lever very clearly, you can download online easily for free. 

I had also read that dirty trans oil could be a culprit as well so I 
changed that too.  I read that even if the oil on the dipstick looks 
pristine, the bottom of the sump can be filled with gunk ( Mine was pretty 
bad) Unlike what you read on the internet forum, the oil recommended by 
Yanmar is regular motor oil.  No need for straight weight either. When 
used in a variety of temps (I sail all year long) they recommend good ol' 
10 W 30.The transmission oil change is a simple 20 minutes affair of 
putting a pan under the trans / removing the plug / drain  / refill. 

That fixed it perfectly for me.. 

Good luck with it. 

Best regards, 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA







>Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
>All is good except for going backwards . . .
>
>It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
>Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:
>
>Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
>Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
>calls for every 5 years.
>I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it.
>
>I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but 
could
>it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
>familiar with the gearbox on this engine.
>
>Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the 
water?
>
>Thanks

>Steve Hood
>S/V Diamond Girl
>C&C 34
>Lions Head ON



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Re: Stus-List Stupid Club

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I left the oil cap off once. Ran the boat hard for 6 hours before I noticed. 
Also had the mess. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "robert via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "robert"  
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:23:50 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Rig - crack? 

Wally: 
I have no problem admitting to my mental limitationsif I were that 
smart, I wouldn't be sailing a 31 year old boat and I wouldn't be doing 
all of the maintenance/work myself. Possibly explains why I am a big 
fan of the C&C list. 

Here's another example of 'stupid'..changed the engine oil last Fall 
just before haul outstarted the engine after the oil change but just 
long enough to hear the engine alarm go 'off'launched this Spring 
and went for a half hour motor before docking.noticed some oil in 
the bilgenow we get to the 'stupid'..forgot to put the oil cap 
back on the to of the engine last Fall after the oil changesome oil 
spurted out of the top of the engine and made a mess all the way to the 
bilge. 

Had a big clean up.I am a full member of the 'stupid club' and 
freely admit it! 

Rob Abbott 
AZURA 
C&C 32 - 84 
Halifax, N.S. 

On 2015-05-14 11:04 PM, Wally Bryant via CnC-List wrote: 
> you wrote: 
>> Steve: 
>> Instantly, now I feel stupid 
> 
> Welcome to the club. 
> 
> 
> ___ 
> 
> Email address: 
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the 
> bottom of page at: 
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> 


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Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in spring

[Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List]

Thank you! Made my day...

Aaron R.
79 30-1

> On May 19, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Andrew Frame via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm happy I'm not in any club, or can sail to "foreign" ports. I'd probably 
> start an incident among the white-whine set by flying the wrong color or logo 
> or something.
> 
> 
> 
> "What's that?"
> 
> "A bandanna. Drying."
> 
> "It's blue with white scrollwork."
> 
> "And?"
> 
> "That's very close to the same design from the 1924 Battle of Uptight 
> Underpants. The Commodore was there."
> 
> "And?"
> 
> "You cant dock if you have that on board. Might upset the Commodore's 
> terrier. She's delicate."
> 
> "The womenfolk really need to go."
> 
> "Sorry."
> 
> "You're serious."
> 
> "Quite. The Commodore is very particular about an 18-inch blue square with 
> white scrollwork hanging vertically from the backstay."
> 
> "How about the forestay?"
> 
> "War of Wee Winkie, 1928. Terrible loss for the Club."
> 
> "Shroud?"
> 
> "Trout Conflict of '45."
> 
> "Lifeline?"
> 
> "Heavens, Captain! How tacky are you, really!? Off the /lifelne/? You have a 
> /sailboat/ man! It's not like you have one of those obscene diesel monsters 
> that positively *ruin* our pristine waters."
> 
> "The Chardonnay Aggression in '62?
> 
> "Sixty-three, actually."
> 
> "You're not going to let my wife and kid pee because I'm drying a bandanna 
> that brings up repressed memories of races you've had your collective butts 
> kicked in?
> 
> "I wouldn't use such gauche terms, but, yes."
> 
> "Honey, the man says you can't use the facilities."
> 
> (from below) "We'll see about that."
> 
> 
> 
> And my daughter thinks my interest in propane potato howitzers are just for 
> her science class.
> 
> 
> 
> We were at Bass Pro last weekend and my bride picks up a yellow quarantine 
> flag. She said, "Let's get this! People will definitely leave us alone."
> 
> She's not a "people person".
> 
> True story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/19/2015 02:40 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List wrote:
> > Hi Stelios,
> >
> > How about our quest for etiquette, "milking a dead cow"?
> >
> > The other thought was, "it's gone udder up" but I'm pretty sure I just
> > made up that one.
> >
> >  Cheers, Russ
> >  Sweet 35 mk-1
> >
> >
> > At 05:34 PM 18/05/2015, Stelios wrote:
> >> Here are the proper ones
> >>
> >> http://www.commodoreinsignia.com/flags_signals.asp
> >>
> >>
> >> Toes up or down? Interesting.
> >> Reminds me of a  phrase used when a cow dies. Hmmm I just can't recall
> >> it!
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: Stus-List C&C 29 - $2500

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

It's not a total disaster. The interiors had water sitting in it for a long 
time. There's no mention of a mast. Might as well be free then. 

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> If someone is looking for a project: 1978 C&C 29 - $2500 (CAD)
> 
> I wonder if that light blue is the original gelcoat. Could be a pretty boat 
> again.
> 
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

As Russ said, prop wash is the disturbed column of water that results from
prop rotation and stretches out behind the boat.

 

Next time you are sailing in the Bay and your depth alarm goes off in open
water and scares the crap out of you, and your depth sounder shows a depth
of about 3 ½ feet which just isn’t logical, you have just gotten into the
prop wash of some yahoo in a power boat.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:10 PM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2

 

Rick, Is their such a thing as prop-wash?  If so what is it?

Josh

On May 18, 2015 7:22 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Josh, the proper term for what you are describing is “torque steer”, not
prop wash. 

 

Torque steer to port in forward is present on all single screw boats with a
RH prop, just as prop walk to port in reverse. A boat with a LH prop will
torque steer to starboard, and prop walk to starboard. 

 

Torque steer and prop walk are primarily cause by the differential in water
pressure between the upper and lower blades as the prop rotates. This
generates a side thrust perpendicular to the prop shaft. The amount of side
thrust is impacted by the diameter of the prop and the pitch of the blades,
and by the speed of rotation of the prop. The more of each, the greater the
thrust. 

 

I recently changed from a 17x10 Martec to a 16 1/2x11 Gori that has
noticeably thicker blades with more pitch. I was surprised at the increase
in torque steer and prop walk.

 

Torque steer is generally more pronounced than prop walk because of the
general greater engine speed in forward gear – though when backing at low
speeds the prop walk can generate a lot more side thrust than the rudder
can. 

 

My friend has a new-to-her 29-2 with a 2gm13F and the standard 14x9RH prop,
and that boat prop walks like a bitch until you get some aft way on the
boat.

 

On power boats with outboards and out drives (no rudder) the effect of
torque steer is generally compensated by the presence of a small skeg or
adjustable tab on the on the drive housing that is adjusted to offset the
effect of torque steer and let the boat run in a straight line. Larger boats
with a shaft drive (like ours) have rudders that can compensate. 

 

Twin screw boats typically have counter rotating (1 RH and 1 LH) props so
there is no torque steer or prop walk with both engines running at similar
RPMs. Unfortunately this isn’t always true – the 81 foot tour boat I work on
has 2 300HP Volvo Penta outdrives and both are RH. The torque steer is
colossal, and makes handling the boat a constant struggle.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
 ] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:45 AM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2

 

Sounds reasonable.  To add on, would you agree that the spinning column of
water which gets split by the rudder when going forward is then responsible
for the phenomenon called prop-wash?  I feel some pretty substantial wash
and a pretty strong pull to port when full throttle but a reasonable and
balanced helm when sailing.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On May 16, 2015 2:08 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Well, this might be just the right time to float a theory I’ve had for some
time about “prop walk”.  Here it is:

 

When the propellor is spinning, it produces a rotating horizontal column or
spinning cylinder of water molecules which move away from the propellor
along its axis. When the boat is going forward, this rotating column is left
in the wake and, other than being split equally by the rudder as the boat
moves forward, the spinning column has little to no effect on the
directional performance of the boat as it is left behind in the wake and
gradually dissipates.

 

When the propellor is put in reverse, forcing water to the front of the boat
as it pulls the hull backwards, the column of spinning water leaving the
prop is no longer free to dissipate in the wake, but encounters the hull of
the boat immediately in front of the propellor. If you consider the column
of water as a spinning cylinder made up of molecules of water, the outer
wall of the cylinder striking the hull will cause it to roll up the side of
the boat away from the keel and toward the surface, and the spinning
molecules in the interior of the cylinder will be directed away from the
centre line of the hull and off to the side.

 

To see this in action, put your stationary boat in reverse and note on which
side of the boat the water is agitated. If you have a right handed prop that
turns left when in reverse, the column of

Re: Stus-List Prop Walk

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Sail drives have both prop walk and torque steer, as do outboards. With an 
outboard the tendency is to turn the motor off center slightly so the thrust 
offsets the prop walk. And see my comment about outboards having a tab to 
compensate for torque steer; on a Mercury engine or Mercruiser outdrive the tab 
is usually one of the zincs that you adjust to some angle off center.

 

Try an experiment next time you are in your dinghy. Put the outboard in forward 
gear at idle speed, loosen the bolt that resists rotation of the motor, and 
then let go of the steering handle. If you have a RH prop, the handle will move 
to starboard. In reverse, the handle will drift to port. 

 

The 72 foot sail training schooner Jeanie B has a 671 Detroit with an 
absolutely horizontal shaft driving a 4 blade prop (30x24, IIRC) in an 
aperture. Even at 80,000 pounds and having a full keel, she prop walks to port. 
That, and the occasional breast line used as a spring, is how we bring the 
stern over to the dock when we come back to the pier after a sail.

 

Having a prop shaft that is not along the centerline, but angled slightly to 
the side – which is pretty common - can either enhance prop walk or oppose it, 
depending on which side the shaft is angled toward and whether you have a RH or 
LH prop rotation.

 

As far as having the prop shaft angled downward, I can see two things happening 
as the angle increases:

1)  The pressure differential between the upper and lower blades decreases, 
as does the vertical distance between the center of effort of the upper blade 
and the CE of the lower blade. Both would tend to reduce the side thrust.

2)  As the angle of the prop shaft increases and approaches vertical, the 
CE of the lower blade is increasingly in front of the CE of the upper blade and 
you would generate torque in the horizontal plane that would try to make the 
boat rotate, much as a helicopter without a functioning tail rotor will rotate. 
Since the keel will resist the boat swinging, the torque will cause the stern 
to move sideways. I need to do a bit of doodling, but my first impression is 
that the thrust would be in the same direction as the thrust from the pressure 
differential on a vertical propeller.

3)  So as the prop shaft is angled more and more downward, the thrust from 
pressure decreases and the thrust from the horizontal plane increases. The net 
result is prop walk.

 

But remember, your engine is installed with the CL of the crankshaft at an 
angle less than 15 degrees from horizontal. So the horizontal distance between 
the CE of the two blades is pretty small, the moment is pretty small, and the 
resulting side thrust is relatively minor.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 6:50 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Cc: Chuck S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk

 

I read somewhere the primary cause of prop walk is the shaft angle.  Sail 
drives and outboards have zero prop walk because the shaft is straight. 

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Mirage in Newport

[Pierre Tremblay via CnC-List]

Here some pictures of Miragehttps://www.flickr.com/gp/77363625@N06/jN790G 
Pierre Tremblay
Avalanche #54988
C&C38-3 WK, hull #76
  De : Harry Hallgring 
 À : "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc : Pierre Tremblay  
 Envoyé le : mardi 19 mai 2015 9h09
 Objet : Re: Stus-List Mirage in Newport
   
Thanks for the kind words Pierre!
Here are a few shots from Sunday's VOR leg start. We were on Alvimedica's chase 
boat...great day!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46147579@N08/sets/72157652015578858

HarrySent from my iPhone


On May 18, 2015, at 09:55, Pierre Tremblay via CnC-List  
wrote:


I saw Harry's Mirage in Newport during the VOR weekend. Nicest boat on the 
water. Will post pictures somewhere and email the link to the list.
Pierre Tremblay
Avalanche #54988
C&C38-3 WK, hull #76

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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Rick,

 

I use Torresen Marine, but they are probably available from any Yanmar dealer 
or Mack Boring.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

“Midnight Mistress”

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Rohwer 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 1:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rick Rohwer
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

 

Where do you look for the parts?  any kits available?  Thanks

 

Rick

C&C 37+ Paikea

Poulsbo, WA   

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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

My understanding, also.
Gary
S/V Expresso

~~~_/)~~


On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List  wrote:

> I read somewhere the *primary cause of prop walk is the shaft angle*.
> Sail drives and outboards have zero prop walk because the shaft is
> straight.
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>
> --
> *From: *"Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"Rick Brass" 
> *Sent: *Monday, May 18, 2015 7:22:08 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2
>
> Josh, the proper term for what you are describing is “torque steer”, not
> prop wash.
>
>
>
> Torque steer to port in forward is present on all single screw boats with
> a RH prop, just as prop walk to port in reverse. A boat with a LH prop will
> torque steer to starboard, and prop walk to starboard.
>
>
>
> Torque steer and prop walk are primarily cause by the differential in
> water pressure between the upper and lower blades as the prop rotates. This
> generates a side thrust perpendicular to the prop shaft. The amount of side
> thrust is impacted by the diameter of the prop and the pitch of the blades,
> and by the speed of rotation of the prop. The more of each, the greater the
> thrust.
>
>
>
> I recently changed from a 17x10 Martec to a 16 1/2x11 Gori that has
> noticeably thicker blades with more pitch. I was surprised at the increase
> in torque steer and prop walk.
>
>
>
> Torque steer is generally more pronounced than prop walk because of the
> general greater engine speed in forward gear – though when backing at low
> speeds the prop walk can generate a lot more side thrust than the rudder
> can.
>
>
>
> My friend has a new-to-her 29-2 with a 2gm13F and the standard 14x9RH
> prop, and that boat prop walks like a bitch until you get some aft way on
> the boat.
>
>
>
> On power boats with outboards and out drives (no rudder) the effect of
> torque steer is generally compensated by the presence of a small skeg or
> adjustable tab on the on the drive housing that is adjusted to offset the
> effect of torque steer and let the boat run in a straight line. Larger
> boats with a shaft drive (like ours) have rudders that can compensate.
>
>
>
> Twin screw boats typically have counter rotating (1 RH and 1 LH) props so
> there is no torque steer or prop walk with both engines running at similar
> RPMs. Unfortunately this isn’t always true – the 81 foot tour boat I work
> on has 2 300HP Volvo Penta outdrives and both are RH. The torque steer is
> colossal, and makes handling the boat a constant struggle.
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> *Imzadi  *C&C 38 mk 2
>
> *la Belle Aurore *C&C 25 mk1
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:45 AM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2
>
>
>
> Sounds reasonable.  To add on, would you agree that the spinning column of
> water which gets split by the rudder when going forward is then responsible
> for the phenomenon called prop-wash?  I feel some pretty substantial wash
> and a pretty strong pull to port when full throttle but a reasonable and
> balanced helm when sailing.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On May 16, 2015 2:08 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Well, this might be just the right time to float a theory I’ve had for
> some time about “prop walk”.  Here it is:
>
>
>
> When the propellor is spinning, it produces a rotating horizontal column
> or spinning cylinder of water molecules which move away from the propellor
> along its axis. When the boat is going forward, this rotating column is
> left in the wake and, other than being split equally by the rudder as the
> boat moves forward, the spinning column has little to no effect on the
> directional performance of the boat as it is left behind in the wake and
> gradually dissipates.
>
>
>
> When the propellor is put in reverse, forcing water to the front of the
> boat as it pulls the hull backwards, the column of spinning water leaving
> the prop is no longer free to dissipate in the wake, but encounters the
> hull of the boat immediately in front of the propellor. If you consider the
> column of water as a spinning cylinder made up of molecules of water, the
> outer wall of the cylinder striking the hull will cause it to roll up the
> side of the boat away from the keel and toward the surface, and the
> spinning molecules in the interior of the cylinder will be directed away
> from the centre line of the hull and off to the side.
>
>
>
> To see this in action, put your stationary boat in reverse and note on
> which side of the boat the water is agitated. If you have a right handed
> prop that turns left when in reverse, the column of water will be directed
> to the starboard side of the boat and will therefore push the stern of

Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

We spent the day at the boat and managed to fix the problem.  After many 
attempts to flatten the mating surfaces, we realized that the end cap was not 
flat so it was not making contact all around the heat exchanger body.  We 
fashioned a new thicker gasket out of a cork composite material we got at a 
nearby auto parts store and when reassembled, no leaks.  I will replace the end 
cap at some point, but for now I think the problem is solved.  Thanks for the 
ideas- Dave

On May 19, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List  wrote:

> I reuse my old gasket every time I take the exchanger apart which is at least 
> once a year to change the zinc and more often if I experience over heating.  
> I've had the boat 12 years of it's 25 years.  I think this proves the rubber 
> gasket and O-ring are reusable. 
> 
> The bolts require a 9/16" wrench and no teflon tape or pipe dope since it's 
> all rubber.  You tighten the bolts gently, very little torgue.  The 
> temperature of the water is limited to 195 degrees and pressure is probably 
> under 25# based purely on experience working with my engine.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
> 
> From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
> To: "Jake Brodersen" , "CnC CnC discussion list" 
> 
> Cc: "David Knecht" 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:29:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem
> 
> I used a new gasket and o-Ring from Toad.  Marine.  I did have a new thought 
> about the problem overnight.  For some reason that I can no longer remember, 
> I put teflon tape on the threads of the end cap bolts.  Was that a mistake 
> and the teflon tape is keeping the bolts from tightening?  Dave
> 
> On May 19, 2015, at 6:26 AM, Jake Brodersen  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
>  
> Is the gasket new?  I doubt that a used gasket would seal in this situation.  
> It has been crushed under heat and pressure.  It probably has taken a set 
> that keeps it from sealing properly.
>  
> Jake
>  
> Jake Brodersen
> “Midnight Mistress”
> C&C 35 Mk-III
> Hampton VA
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David 
> Knecht via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:06 PM
> To: CnC CnC discussion list
> Cc: David Knecht
> Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem
>  
> I hope someone can help with this problem.  I removed my heat exchanger from 
> my Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop and 
> then I repainted it.  As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not 
> pressure test it because it came back disassembled.  I did not think much of 
> it at the time.  When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the 
> end caps were secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do 
> its job since I tightened the bolts as much as possible.  Aries splashed 
> today and when I started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end cap 
> on one side an dripping from the other.  The bolt is as tight as I can get 
> it, but it still seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to seal. 
>  I was a bit confused about the assembly process.  The order I thought was 
> correct was the plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over that.  
> The plate has a slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but it seems 
> like the O ring might be preventing the plate from making good contact with 
> the gasket.  The way I assembled it looks like the picture on the Pbase site 
> which is the only photo I can find 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger).  Any words of wisdom out 
> there?  Thanks- Dave
>  
>  
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> of page at:
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> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
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> of page at:
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> 

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year

[Chris Price via CnC-List]

I guess they sent you around some Gov't marks to get you some upwind work. It 
was a nice Southerly when we were out. We are planning on going to the Wye 
River on Friday, if you do the race and want to raft up on Saturday, or sail up 
Eastern Bay and through Kent Narrows with us on Sunday, give me a yell. 

Chris Price 
Pradel 35 MK I 


- Original Message -

From: "Chuck S via CnC-List"  
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
Cc: "Chuck S"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 6:21:14 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

I expected to be quite busy, and really enjoyed the experience. Working so much 
on winter projects like rebuilding the steering, and building the helm seat and 
boarding ramp over the winter, I forgot how much effort is required to tack and 
winch in the genoa. By the time I got the sheet winched in and the sail 
skirted, and the authelm tweaked, sheet tensioned again, it was time to tack 
again. I was making 6.6 knots but not very close to the wind. I just never got 
the boat into the sweet groove until the last upwind leg. By then, all the 
crewed spinnaker boats but one, passed me on that long 8 mile downwind leg. I'm 
new to the Chesapeake and first time I ever saw 20 spinnakers at one time. What 
a beautiful day. I crossed the finish line doing 7.3 knots, and taking pictures 
of the boat behind and the RC boat, and sailed jib and main through the 
straight into the Magothy before furling the genoa and having a celebratory 
beer. I have to learn spinnaker. 

I'm contemplating doing the Annapolis to Miles River Race this weekend, 70 
boats so far. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Chris Price via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Chris Price"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:37:12 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

We were looking for you but didn't get out on the water until 3:30 on Saturday. 
That's a handful of boat to singlehand. I sailed mine solo to West River one 
time, found a summer thunderstorm just as I got in to the mooring. Interesting 
time was had. 

Chris Price 
Pradel 35 MK I 

- Original Message -

From: "Chuck S via CnC-List"  
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
Cc: "Chuck S"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:00:43 PM 
Subject: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

Had my first sail of the year last Saturday. Did a 10 mile distance race from 
Annapolis to Gibson Island singlehanded. First singlehanded race of my life. 
Great sun, 80 degree air and 65 degree water and wind was 8 to 12 knots. 
Finished in the back of the fleet of crewed boats but not last. Should have 
used a spinnaker, but still working on those skills. One of the most 
challenging and beautiful and memorable sailing days yet. I'm almost over the 
sore muscles. Might do another race again next weekend. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

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Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Steve, 

I run a 3GM30F with a Kanzaki transmission and had a similar issue. 

The problem was a situation where the putting the gear lever in the full 
reverse position did not quite fully engage reverse on the transmission. 
The cable was somehow out of adjustment and simple corrective adjustment 
did the trick.  If I remember right, the adjustment closest to where the 
actual metal cable exits the sheath was the right one to use / had much 
more range than the other near the shift lever on the transmission (I 
tried both). 

The fix:  Move the trans shift lever all the way to the reverse stopping 
point by hand  / adjust the cable until it pulls (Or push? )  it all the 
way to the stop as well.  The Yanmar manual explains the operation of the 
lever very clearly, you can download online easily for free. 

I had also read that dirty trans oil could be a culprit as well so I 
changed that too.  I read that even if the oil on the dipstick looks 
pristine, the bottom of the sump can be filled with gunk ( Mine was pretty 
bad) Unlike what you read on the internet forum, the oil recommended by 
Yanmar is regular motor oil.  No need for straight weight either. When 
used in a variety of temps (I sail all year long) they recommend good ol' 
10 W 30.The transmission oil change is a simple 20 minutes affair of 
putting a pan under the trans / removing the plug / drain  / refill. 

That fixed it perfectly for me.. 

Good luck with it. 

Best regards, 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA







>Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
>All is good except for going backwards . . .
>
>It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
>Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:
>
>Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
>Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
>calls for every 5 years.
>I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it.
>
>I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but 
could
>it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
>familiar with the gearbox on this engine.
>
>Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the 
water?
>
>Thanks

>Steve Hood
>S/V Diamond Girl
>C&C 34
>Lions Head ON

Regards



François Rivard
 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw

Big Data Black Belt
 Atlanta, 30327-3015
IBM Sales & Distribution, Software Sales
 Usa
Mobile:
770-639-0429
 

e-mail:
jfriv...@us.ibm.com
 

 
 


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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I read somewhere the primary cause of prop walk is the shaft angle . Sail 
drives and outboards have zero prop walk because the shaft is straight. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:22:08 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2 



Josh, the proper term for what you are describing is “torque steer”, not prop 
wash. 



Torque steer to port in forward is present on all single screw boats with a RH 
prop, just as prop walk to port in reverse. A boat with a LH prop will torque 
steer to starboard, and prop walk to starboard. 



Torque steer and prop walk are primarily cause by the differential in water 
pressure between the upper and lower blades as the prop rotates. This generates 
a side thrust perpendicular to the prop shaft. The amount of side thrust is 
impacted by the diameter of the prop and the pitch of the blades, and by the 
speed of rotation of the prop. The more of each, the greater the thrust. 



I recently changed from a 17x10 Martec to a 16 1/2x11 Gori that has noticeably 
thicker blades with more pitch. I was surprised at the increase in torque steer 
and prop walk. 



Torque steer is generally more pronounced than prop walk because of the general 
greater engine speed in forward gear – though when backing at low speeds the 
prop walk can generate a lot more side thrust than the rudder can. 



My friend has a new-to-her 29-2 with a 2gm13F and the standard 14x9RH prop, and 
that boat prop walks like a bitch until you get some aft way on the boat. 



On power boats with outboards and out drives (no rudder) the effect of torque 
steer is generally compensated by the presence of a small skeg or adjustable 
tab on the on the drive housing that is adjusted to offset the effect of torque 
steer and let the boat run in a straight line. Larger boats with a shaft drive 
(like ours) have rudders that can compensate. 



Twin screw boats typically have counter rotating (1 RH and 1 LH) props so there 
is no torque steer or prop walk with both engines running at similar RPMs. 
Unfortunately this isn’t always true – the 81 foot tour boat I work on has 2 
300HP Volvo Penta outdrives and both are RH. The torque steer is colossal, and 
makes handling the boat a constant struggle. 



Rick Brass 

Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 

Washington, NC 







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:45 AM 
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2 



Sounds reasonable. To add on, would you agree that the spinning column of water 
which gets split by the rudder when going forward is then responsible for the 
phenomenon called prop-wash? I feel some pretty substantial wash and a pretty 
strong pull to port when full throttle but a reasonable and balanced helm when 
sailing. 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 


On May 16, 2015 2:08 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
wrote: 




Well, this might be just the right time to float a theory I’ve had for some 
time about “prop walk”. Here it is: 





When the propellor is spinning, it produces a rotating horizontal column or 
spinning cylinder of water molecules which move away from the propellor along 
its axis. When the boat is going forward, this rotating column is left in the 
wake and, other than being split equally by the rudder as the boat moves 
forward, the spinning column has little to no effect on the directional 
performance of the boat as it is left behind in the wake and gradually 
dissipates. 





When the propellor is put in reverse, forcing water to the front of the boat as 
it pulls the hull backwards, the column of spinning water leaving the prop is 
no longer free to dissipate in the wake, but encounters the hull of the boat 
immediately in front of the propellor. If you consider the column of water as a 
spinning cylinder made up of molecules of water, the outer wall of the cylinder 
striking the hull will cause it to roll up the side of the boat away from the 
keel and toward the surface, and the spinning molecules in the interior of the 
cylinder will be directed away from the centre line of the hull and off to the 
side. 





To see this in action, put your stationary boat in reverse and note on which 
side of the boat the water is agitated. If you have a right handed prop that 
turns left when in reverse, the column of water will be directed to the 
starboard side of the boat and will therefore push the stern of the boat to 
port. If you have a left handed propellor that turns to the right in reverse, 
the column of water will be directed to the port or left side of the boat 
pushing the stern to starboard. Thus the much cursed and very useful affect 
known as prop walk. 





Just my theory, bu

Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in spring

[David via CnC-List]

Now that was funny...albeit partially and unfortunately and somewhat true.   
But nice work.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:29:54 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in  
> spring
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: flasp...@dynamagic.com
> 
> 
> I'm happy I'm not in any club, or can sail to "foreign" ports. I'd 
> probably start an incident among the white-whine set by flying the wrong 
> color or logo or something.
> 
> 
> 
> "What's that?"
> 
> "A bandanna. Drying."
> 
> "It's blue with white scrollwork."
> 
> "And?"
> 
> "That's very close to the same design from the 1924 Battle of Uptight 
> Underpants. The Commodore was there."
> 
> "And?"
> 
> "You cant dock if you have that on board. Might upset the Commodore's 
> terrier. She's delicate."
> 
> "The womenfolk really need to go."
> 
> "Sorry."
> 
> "You're serious."
> 
> "Quite. The Commodore is very particular about an 18-inch blue square 
> with white scrollwork hanging vertically from the backstay."
> 
> "How about the forestay?"
> 
> "War of Wee Winkie, 1928. Terrible loss for the Club."
> 
> "Shroud?"
> 
> "Trout Conflict of '45."
> 
> "Lifeline?"
> 
> "Heavens, Captain! How tacky are you, really!? Off the /lifelne/? You 
> have a /sailboat/ man! It's not like you have one of those obscene 
> diesel monsters that positively *ruin* our pristine waters."
> 
> "The Chardonnay Aggression in '62?
> 
> "Sixty-three, actually."
> 
> "You're not going to let my wife and kid pee because I'm drying a 
> bandanna that brings up repressed memories of races you've had your 
> collective butts kicked in?
> 
> "I wouldn't use such gauche terms, but, yes."
> 
> "Honey, the man says you can't use the facilities."
> 
> (from below) "We'll see about that."
> 
> 
> 
> And my daughter thinks my interest in propane potato howitzers are just 
> for her science class.
> 
> 
> 
> We were at Bass Pro last weekend and my bride picks up a yellow 
> quarantine flag. She said, "Let's get this! People will definitely leave 
> us alone."
> 
> She's not a "people person".
> 
> True story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/19/2015 02:40 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List wrote:
>  > Hi Stelios,
>  >
>  > How about our quest for etiquette, "milking a dead cow"?
>  >
>  > The other thought was, "it's gone udder up" but I'm pretty sure I just
>  > made up that one.
>  >
>  >  Cheers, Russ
>  >  Sweet 35 mk-1
>  >
>  >
>  > At 05:34 PM 18/05/2015, Stelios wrote:
>  >> Here are the proper ones
>  >>
>  >> 
> http://www.commodoreinsignia.com/flags_signals.asp
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Toes up or down? Interesting.
>  >> Reminds me of a  phrase used when a cow dies. Hmmm I just can't recall
>  >> it!
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ___
>  >
>  > Email address:
>  > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>  > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the 
> bottom of page at:
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>  >
> 
> ___
> 
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> of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[David via CnC-List]

Russ,

Thought of that but by the time I buy the parts ($300++) I exceeded the cost of 
a new one ($300) I found on-line with none of the headaches and worries of a 
rebuild.

Thank though...

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:43:51 -0700
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: russ...@telus.net



Hi David,


Probably a pitted shaft at the seal area. Replace shaft & seal no big
deal, assess bearing(s) at the same time.


Cheers,
Russ 

Sweet
35 mk-1




At 06:04 PM 18/05/2015, you wrote:

Rick,


Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is
from the  impeller which internally circulates the glycol. 



I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its
design.   Flat out at work all week and will be back out it
this weekend.


FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking
shaft.  $400 for a pump.  Whodathunk?   


Damn.   




David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)





To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 18:44:59 -0400

Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

CC: rickbr...@earthlink.net


David,


 


If I’m not mistaken, having the Sen-Dur retrofit makes it a fresh water
cooled engine, not raw water.


 


Two water pumps, right? The pump on the front of the engine circulates
water/glycol through the engine block and to the heat exchanger, the
second pumps sea water to the heat exchanger and then to the exhaust
mixing elbow?


 


If that is the case, and the impeller blade is from the sea water pump,
there is about a 90% chance the blade is in the heat exchanger.


 


Rick Brass


Washington, NC


 


 


 


From: CnC-List
[
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via
CnC-List

Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 6:01 PM

To: CNC CNC

Cc: David

Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...


 


Thanks all.


Checked obvious hose areas.  Nothing. Ran it today on the hard,
seemed fine, Will be launched  tomorrow.  As we are Bermuda
bound in June I need to find that puppy as it will invariably find its
way to the worst spot at the worst time.   My guess its in the
after market (Sen-Dur) heat exchanger.


Wish me luck.  


David F. Risch

1981 40-2

(401) 419-4650 (cell)





Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 16:11:49 -0500

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

From:
cnc-list@cnc-list.com

CC: muckl...@gmail.com


You can use the shop-vac to blow out the system too...or a garden
hose.


On May 17, 2015 4:51 PM, "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"

wrote:





I agree with the comments which Rick made. I had intermittent cooling
problems on my Yanmar 2QM15 for a number of years - most of the time when
it had been run for a while, then stopped, then started again. The
whistle was annoying...



 



I then had more serious problems, and found the impeller had come
apart. I took all the little pieces of the busted impeller and assembled
them with glue and tape to make sure there was nothing still in the
engine. OK. With a new impeller it went back to overheating every so
often like it used to do.



 



I started again - I ran the engine each time I changed anything...
After checking the hoses, strainer, pump, more hoses, and replacing the
zincs, I found not much water coming through the hose leading to the zinc
at the forward part of the engine. Confusing. When I pulled the hose
going to the zinc area and fired the engine, I found a piece of an
impeller which was hard as a rock and coated in rust stuck in there. The
impeller I had just pulled was recent, no rust and not hard. All the
other impellers I have changed in 20+ years of ownership had been whole.




The only thing I can think of is that piece must have been in there
for years - - - and only caused problems in certain conditions. Once it
was removed, I have had no cooling problems for the last year!



 



Start at one end, and follow it through. Blow out everything as you
go.



 



Gary Nylander



30-1 Maryland





- Original Message - 



From: Rick Rohwer via
CnC-List 



To:
cnc-list@cnc-list.com




Cc: Rick Rohwer




Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 12:44 PM



Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...



 



Hi David, 



i’ll chime in and hope it helps. 



 



If you are lucky, the vane was torn to tiny particles and pushed all
the way through the cooling system and you are free as rain!



 



If you are like me, it is lurking somewhere in the system between the
pump and the exhaust outlet and pretty much the same size as when it
left.  In a raw water cooled application, that means it could be
anywhere in the cooling system of your engine block, potentially blocking
or contributing to future blockage.  In a fresh water cooling system
I think the chunks end up in the heat exchanger or where the raw water is
introduced to the exhaust gases.



 



Just as a suggestion, try not to run the engine, and starting a

Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I expected to be quite busy, and really enjoyed the experience. Working so much 
on winter projects like rebuilding the steering, and building the helm seat and 
boarding ramp over the winter, I forgot how much effort is required to tack and 
winch in the genoa. By the time I got the sheet winched in and the sail 
skirted, and the authelm tweaked, sheet tensioned again, it was time to tack 
again. I was making 6.6 knots but not very close to the wind. I just never got 
the boat into the sweet groove until the last upwind leg. By then, all the 
crewed spinnaker boats but one, passed me on that long 8 mile downwind leg. I'm 
new to the Chesapeake and first time I ever saw 20 spinnakers at one time. What 
a beautiful day. I crossed the finish line doing 7.3 knots, and taking pictures 
of the boat behind and the RC boat, and sailed jib and main through the 
straight into the Magothy before furling the genoa and having a celebratory 
beer. I have to learn spinnaker. 

I'm contemplating doing the Annapolis to Miles River Race this weekend, 70 
boats so far. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Chris Price via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Chris Price"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:37:12 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

We were looking for you but didn't get out on the water until 3:30 on Saturday. 
That's a handful of boat to singlehand. I sailed mine solo to West River one 
time, found a summer thunderstorm just as I got in to the mooring. Interesting 
time was had. 

Chris Price 
Pradel 35 MK I 

- Original Message -

From: "Chuck S via CnC-List"  
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
Cc: "Chuck S"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:00:43 PM 
Subject: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

Had my first sail of the year last Saturday. Did a 10 mile distance race from 
Annapolis to Gibson Island singlehanded. First singlehanded race of my life. 
Great sun, 80 degree air and 65 degree water and wind was 8 to 12 knots. 
Finished in the back of the fleet of crewed boats but not last. Should have 
used a spinnaker, but still working on those skills. One of the most 
challenging and beautiful and memorable sailing days yet. I'm almost over the 
sore muscles. Might do another race again next weekend. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

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Re: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year

[Chris Price via CnC-List]

We were looking for you but didn't get out on the water until 3:30 on Saturday. 
That's a handful of boat to singlehand. I sailed mine solo to West River one 
time, found a summer thunderstorm just as I got in to the mooring. Interesting 
time was had. 

Chris Price 
Pradel 35 MK I 

- Original Message -

From: "Chuck S via CnC-List"  
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
Cc: "Chuck S"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:00:43 PM 
Subject: Stus-List first sail, first race of the year 

Had my first sail of the year last Saturday. Did a 10 mile distance race from 
Annapolis to Gibson Island singlehanded. First singlehanded race of my life. 
Great sun, 80 degree air and 65 degree water and wind was 8 to 12 knots. 
Finished in the back of the fleet of crewed boats but not last. Should have 
used a spinnaker, but still working on those skills. One of the most 
challenging and beautiful and memorable sailing days yet. I'm almost over the 
sore muscles. Might do another race again next weekend. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

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Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I reuse my old gasket every time I take the exchanger apart which is at least 
once a year to change the zinc and more often if I experience over heating. 
I've had the boat 12 years of it's 25 years. I think this proves the rubber 
gasket and O-ring are reusable. 

The bolts require a 9/16" wrench and no teflon tape or pipe dope since it's all 
rubber. You tighten the bolts gently, very little torgue. The temperature of 
the water is limited to 195 degrees and pressure is probably under 25# based 
purely on experience working with my engine. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "David Knecht via CnC-List"  
To: "Jake Brodersen" , "CnC CnC discussion list" 
 
Cc: "David Knecht"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:29:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem 

I used a new gasket and o-Ring from Toad. Marine. I did have a new thought 
about the problem overnight. For some reason that I can no longer remember, I 
put teflon tape on the threads of the end cap bolts. Was that a mistake and the 
teflon tape is keeping the bolts from tightening? Dave 

On May 19, 2015, at 6:26 AM, Jake Brodersen < captain_j...@cox.net > wrote: 






Dave, 



Is the gasket new? I doubt that a used gasket would seal in this situation. It 
has been crushed under heat and pressure. It probably has taken a set that 
keeps it from sealing properly. 



Jake 



Jake Brodersen 

“Midnight Mistress” 

C&C 35 Mk-III 

Hampton VA 








From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of David 
Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:06 PM 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem 




I hope someone can help with this problem. I removed my heat exchanger from my 
Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop and then 
I repainted it. As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not pressure test 
it because it came back disassembled. I did not think much of it at the time. 
When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the end caps were 
secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do its job since I 
tightened the bolts as much as possible. Aries splashed today and when I 
started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end cap on one side an 
dripping from the other. The bolt is as tight as I can get it, but it still 
seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to seal. I was a bit 
confused about the assembly process. The order I thought was correct was the 
plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over that. The plate has a 
slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but it seems like the O ring 
might be preventing the plate from making good contact with the gasket. The way 
I assembled it looks like the picture on the Pbase site which is the only photo 
I can find ( http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger ). Any words of 
wisdom out there? Thanks- Dave 








Aries 


1990 C&C 34+ 


New London, CT 



 







Aries 
1990 C&C 34+ 
New London, CT 



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Re: Stus-List Mirage in Newport

[Brad Crawford via CnC-List]

Thanks for sharing, amazing how fast those boats go, and what a great day.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Harry 
Hallgring via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 6:10 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Harry Hallgring
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mirage in Newport

 

Thanks for the kind words Pierre!

 

Here are a few shots from Sunday's VOR leg start. We were on Alvimedica's chase 
boat...great day!

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46147579@N08/sets/72157652015578858

Harry

Sent from my iPhone


On May 18, 2015, at 09:55, Pierre Tremblay via CnC-List  
wrote:

I saw Harry's Mirage in Newport during the VOR weekend. Nicest boat on the 
water. Will post pictures somewhere and email the link to the list.

 

Pierre Tremblay 
Avalanche #54988 
C&C38-3 WK, hull #76

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Stus-List first sail, first race of the year

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Had my first sail of the year last Saturday. Did a 10 mile distance race from 
Annapolis to Gibson Island singlehanded. First singlehanded race of my life. 
Great sun, 80 degree air and 65 degree water and wind was 8 to 12 knots. 
Finished in the back of the fleet of crewed boats but not last. Should have 
used a spinnaker, but still working on those skills. One of the most 
challenging and beautiful and memorable sailing days yet. I'm almost over the 
sore muscles. Might do another race again next weekend. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 
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Re: Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Try Edd's suggestion. Find the shift lever at the engine transmission. You 
should be able to move the lever from center neutral to forward (reverse gear) 
and backward (forward gear). You should be able to do this with everything as 
is, no tools, but you need to overcome the cable friction. If it doesn't move 
easily, disconnect the cable at the lever (remove cotter key) and move lever 
with your fingers. 

I'd try all that with the engine off, then once I got used to everything, I'd 
put it in neutral, start the engine and try shifting into forward and reverse. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "OldSteveH via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "OldSteveH"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:41:22 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Problem with reverse 

Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend. 
All is good except for going backwards . . . 

It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high. 
Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions: 

Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs. 
Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf 
calls for every 5 years. 
I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it. 

I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could 
it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not 
familiar with the gearbox on this engine. 

Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the water? 

Thanks 

Steve Hood 
S/V Diamond Girl 
C&C 34 
Lions Head ON 




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Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in spring

[Andrew Frame via CnC-List]

I'm happy I'm not in any club, or can sail to "foreign" ports. I'd 
probably start an incident among the white-whine set by flying the wrong 
color or logo or something.




"What's that?"

"A bandanna. Drying."

"It's blue with white scrollwork."

"And?"

"That's very close to the same design from the 1924 Battle of Uptight 
Underpants. The Commodore was there."


"And?"

"You cant dock if you have that on board. Might upset the Commodore's 
terrier. She's delicate."


"The womenfolk really need to go."

"Sorry."

"You're serious."

"Quite. The Commodore is very particular about an 18-inch blue square 
with white scrollwork hanging vertically from the backstay."


"How about the forestay?"

"War of Wee Winkie, 1928. Terrible loss for the Club."

"Shroud?"

"Trout Conflict of '45."

"Lifeline?"

"Heavens, Captain! How tacky are you, really!? Off the /lifelne/? You 
have a /sailboat/ man! It's not like you have one of those obscene 
diesel monsters that positively *ruin* our pristine waters."


"The Chardonnay Aggression in '62?

"Sixty-three, actually."

"You're not going to let my wife and kid pee because I'm drying a 
bandanna that brings up repressed memories of races you've had your 
collective butts kicked in?


"I wouldn't use such gauche terms, but, yes."

"Honey, the man says you can't use the facilities."

(from below) "We'll see about that."



And my daughter thinks my interest in propane potato howitzers are just 
for her science class.




We were at Bass Pro last weekend and my bride picks up a yellow 
quarantine flag. She said, "Let's get this! People will definitely leave 
us alone."


She's not a "people person".

True story.







On 05/19/2015 02:40 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List wrote:
> Hi Stelios,
>
> How about our quest for etiquette, "milking a dead cow"?
>
> The other thought was, "it's gone udder up" but I'm pretty sure I just
> made up that one.
>
>  Cheers, Russ
>  Sweet 35 mk-1
>
>
> At 05:34 PM 18/05/2015, Stelios wrote:
>> Here are the proper ones
>>
>> 
http://www.commodoreinsignia.com/flags_signals.asp

>>
>>
>> Toes up or down? Interesting.
>> Reminds me of a  phrase used when a cow dies. Hmmm I just can't recall
>> it!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the 
bottom of page at:

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>

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Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in spring

[Stelios via CnC-List]

In Greece we say 'pushing a dead donkey' 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2015, at 14:40, Russ & Melody via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Stelios, 
> 
> How about our quest for etiquette, "milking a dead cow"?
> 
> The other thought was, "it's gone udder up" but I'm pretty sure I just made 
> up that one.
> 
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
> 
> 
> At 05:34 PM 18/05/2015, Stelios wrote:
>> Here are the proper ones 
>> 
>> http://www.commodoreinsignia.com/flags_signals.asp
>> 
>> Toes up or down? Interesting. 
>> Reminds me of a  phrase used when a cow dies. Hmmm I just can't recall it!
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 
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Re: Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Steve,

Did you verify if the shaft is spinning in reverse at low speed?

I'm thinking it might take high RPM to get your prop working after 
the winter chill & sit...


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 09:41 AM 19/05/2015, you wrote:

Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
All is good except for going backwards . . .

It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:

Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
calls for every 5 years.
I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it.

I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could
it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
familiar with the gearbox on this engine.

Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the water?

Thanks

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON




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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,

Prop wash is the disturbed, somewhat aerated, 
water left behind the boat when motoring. It can 
be a good place to troll for bluebacks in the spring. :)


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 07:09 PM 18/05/2015, you wrote:


Rick, Is their such a thing as prop-wash?  If so what is it?

Josh
On May 18, 2015 7:22 PM, "Rick Brass via 
CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Josh, the proper term for what you are 
describing is “torque steer”, not prop wash.




Torque steer to port in forward is present on 
all single screw boats with a RH prop, just as 
prop walk to port in reverse. A boat with a LH 
prop will torque steer to starboard, and prop walk to starboard.




Torque steer and prop walk are primarily cause 
by the differential in water pressure between 
the upper and lower blades as the prop rotates. 
This generates a side thrust perpendicular to 
the prop shaft. The amount of side thrust is 
impacted by the diameter of the prop and the 
pitch of the blades, and by the speed of 
rotation of the prop. The more of each, the greater the thrust.




I recently changed from a 17x10 Martec to a 16 
1/2x11 Gori that has noticeably thicker blades 
with more pitch. I was surprised at the increase in torque steer and prop walk.




Torque steer is generally more pronounced than 
prop walk because of the general greater engine 
speed in forward gear – though when backing at 
low speeds the prop walk can generate a lot more 
side thrust than the rudder can.




My friend has a new-to-her 29-2 with a 2gm13F 
and the standard 14x9RH prop, and that boat prop 
walks like a bitch until you get some aft way on the boat.




On power boats with outboards and out drives (no 
rudder) the effect of torque steer is generally 
compensated by the presence of a small skeg or 
adjustable tab on the on the drive housing that 
is adjusted to offset the effect of torque steer 
and let the boat run in a straight line. Larger 
boats with a shaft drive (like ours) have rudders that can compensate.




Twin screw boats typically have counter rotating 
(1 RH and 1 LH) props so there is no torque 
steer or prop walk with both engines running at 
similar RPMs. Unfortunately this isn’t always 
true – the 81 foot tour boat I work on has 2 
300HP Volvo Penta outdrives and both are RH. The 
torque steer is colossal, and makes handling the boat a constant struggle.




Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC







From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:45 AM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2



Sounds reasonable.  To add on, would you agree 
that the spinning column of water which gets 
split by the rudder when going forward is then 
responsible for the phenomenon called 
prop-wash?  I feel some pretty substantial wash 
and a pretty strong pull to port when full 
throttle but a reasonable and balanced helm when sailing.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On May 16, 2015 2:08 AM, "Knowles Rich via 
CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Well, this might be just the right time to float 
a theory I’ve had for some time about “prop walk”.  Here it is:




When the propellor is spinning, it produces a 
rotating horizontal column or spinning cylinder 
of water molecules which move away from the 
propellor along its axis. When the boat is going 
forward, this rotating column is left in the 
wake and, other than being split equally by the 
rudder as the boat moves forward, the spinning 
column has little to no effect on the 
directional performance of the boat as it is 
left behind in the wake and gradually dissipates.




When the propellor is put in reverse, forcing 
water to the front of the boat as it pulls the 
hull backwards, the column of spinning water 
leaving the prop is no longer free to dissipate 
in the wake, but encounters the hull of the boat 
immediately in front of the propellor. If you 
consider the column of water as a spinning 
cylinder made up of molecules of water, the 
outer wall of the cylinder striking the hull 
will cause it to roll up the side of the boat 
away from the keel and toward the surface, and 
the spinning molecules in the interior of the 
cylinder will be directed away from the centre 
line of the hull and off to the side.




To see this in action, put your stationary boat 
in reverse and note on which side of the boat 
the water is agitated. If you have a right 
handed prop that turns left when in reverse, the 
column of water will be directed to the 
starboard side of the boat and will therefore 
push the stern of the boat to port. If you have 
a left handed propellor that turns to the right 
in reverse, the column of water will be directed 
to the port or left side of the boat pushing the 
stern to starboard. Thus the much cursed and 
very 

Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi David,

Probably a pitted shaft at the seal area. Replace shaft & seal no big 
deal, assess bearing(s) at the same time.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 06:04 PM 18/05/2015, you wrote:

Rick,

Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is from 
the  impeller which internally circulates the glycol.


I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its 
design.   Flat out at work all week and will be back out it this weekend.


FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking 
shaft.  $400 for a pump.  Whodathunk?


Damn.


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



--
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 18:44:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: rickbr...@earthlink.net

David,



If I'm not mistaken, having the Sen-Dur retrofit makes it a fresh 
water cooled engine, not raw water.




Two water pumps, right? The pump on the front of the engine 
circulates water/glycol through the engine block and to the heat 
exchanger, the second pumps sea water to the heat exchanger and then 
to the exhaust mixing elbow?




If that is the case, and the impeller blade is from the sea water 
pump, there is about a 90% chance the blade is in the heat exchanger.




Rick Brass

Washington, NC







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
David via CnC-List

Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 6:01 PM
To: CNC CNC
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...



Thanks all.

Checked obvious hose areas.  Nothing. Ran it today on the hard, 
seemed fine, Will be launched  tomorrow.  As we are Bermuda bound in 
June I need to find that puppy as it will invariably find its way to 
the worst spot at the worst time.   My guess its in the after market 
(Sen-Dur) heat exchanger.


Wish me luck.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 16:11:49 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: muckl...@gmail.com

You can use the shop-vac to blow out the system too...or a garden hose.

On May 17, 2015 4:51 PM, "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


I agree with the comments which Rick made. I had intermittent 
cooling problems on my Yanmar 2QM15 for a number of years - most of 
the time when it had been run for a while, then stopped, then 
started again. The whistle was annoying...




I then had more serious problems, and found the impeller had come 
apart. I took all the little pieces of the busted impeller and 
assembled them with glue and tape to make sure there was nothing 
still in the engine. OK. With a new impeller it went back to 
overheating every so often like it used to do.




I started again - I ran the engine each time I changed anything... 
After checking the hoses, strainer, pump, more hoses, and replacing 
the zincs, I found not much water coming through the hose leading to 
the zinc at the forward part of the engine. Confusing. When I pulled 
the hose going to the zinc area and fired the engine, I found a 
piece of an impeller which was hard as a rock and coated in rust 
stuck in there. The impeller I had just pulled was recent, no rust 
and not hard. All the other impellers I have changed in 20+ years of 
ownership had been whole.


The only thing I can think of is that piece must have been in there 
for years - - - and only caused problems in certain conditions. Once 
it was removed, I have had no cooling problems for the last year!




Start at one end, and follow it through. Blow out everything as you go.



Gary Nylander

30-1 Maryland

- Original Message -

From: Rick Rohwer via CnC-List

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Cc: Rick Rohwer

Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...



Hi David,

i'll chime in and hope it helps.



If you are lucky, the vane was torn to tiny particles and pushed all 
the way through the cooling system and you are free as rain!




If you are like me, it is lurking somewhere in the system between 
the pump and the exhaust outlet and pretty much the same size as 
when it left.  In a raw water cooled application, that means it 
could be anywhere in the cooling system of your engine block, 
potentially blocking or contributing to future blockage.  In a fresh 
water cooling system I think the chunks end up in the heat exchanger 
or where the raw water is introduced to the exhaust gases.




Just as a suggestion, try not to run the engine, and starting at the 
pump, work your way up line carefully checking for pieces in the 
hoses hoping that it lodged in that line prior to entering the 
block.  Hang on to any chunks you find so you can get an idea of how 
pulverized it is.  After that point i d

Re: Stus-List Flag Etiquette - Past Commodore's Flag -> cows in spring

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Stelios,

How about our quest for etiquette, "milking a dead cow"?

The other thought was, "it's gone udder up" but I'm pretty sure I 
just made up that one.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:34 PM 18/05/2015, Stelios wrote:

Here are the proper ones

http://www.commodoreinsignia.com/flags_signals.asp

Toes up or down? Interesting.
Reminds me of a  phrase used when a cow dies. Hmmm I just can't recall it!
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Re: Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

It might also be simply a low level of transmission fluid--i'd check this first!

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On May 19, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> It sound like your transmission needs to be replaced, or will be very soon. 
> Shifting in high RPMs will damage it very quickly.  Here’s a quick test — see 
> you can manually shift the boat into reverse from the lever on the engine at 
> low RPMs. If the boat goes into gear, you may just need to tighten or replace 
> the shifting cable. 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 19, 2015, at 12:41 PM, OldSteveH via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
>> All is good except for going backwards . . . 
>> 
>> It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
>> Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:
>> 
>> Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
>> Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
>> calls for every 5 years.
>> I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it. 
>> 
>> I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could
>> it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
>> familiar with the gearbox on this engine.
>> 
>> Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the water?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Steve Hood
>> S/V Diamond Girl
>> C&C 34
>> Lions Head ON
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

Hi Guys,

Saw this on the Providence (RI) craiglist:
http://providence.craigslist.org/bpo/5027782716.html
Might be worth a look.  I though of snagging it as a long-term project, but
I'm sure the Admiral would have me flogged (again).

Chuck B
C&C 34 Elusive
Somerset, MA

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:30 PM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> For this pump I checked a full re-build kit...$350 and still needs to be
> rebuilt.   New?  Got one for $300 online instead of $400 locally
> Your pump experiences may vary...
>
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:21:00 -0700
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: rickroh...@gmail.com
>
>
> Where do you look for the parts?  any kits available?  Thanks
>
> Rick
> C&C 37+ Paikea
> Poulsbo, WA
>
> On May 19, 2015, at 3:28 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> The seals and bearings on the raw water pump are replaceable.  It is
> certainly cheaper than a new pump.
>
> Jake
>
> *Jake Brodersen*
> *“Midnight Mistress”*
> *C&C 35 Mk-III*
> *Hampton VA*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *David via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 9:04 PM
> *To:* CNC CNC
> *Cc:* David
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
>
>
> Rick,
>
> Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is from the
> impeller which internally circulates the glycol.
>
> I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its
> design.   Flat out at work all week and will be back out it this weekend.
>
> FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking shaft.  $400
> for a pump.  Whodathunk?
>
> Damn.
>
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
> ___ Email address:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[David via CnC-List]

Rick,

For this pump I checked a full re-build kit...$350 and still needs to be 
rebuilt.   New?  Got one for $300 online instead of $400 locally
Your pump experiences may vary...


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:21:00 -0700
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: rickroh...@gmail.com

Where do you look for the parts?  any kits available?  Thanks
RickC&C 37+ PaikeaPoulsbo, WA   
On May 19, 2015, at 3:28 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
 wrote:David, The seals and bearings on the raw water 
pump are replaceable.  It is certainly cheaper than a new pump. Jake Jake 
Brodersen“Midnight Mistress”C&C 35 Mk-IIIHampton VA   From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:04 PM
To: CNC CNC
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn... Rick,

Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is from the  
impeller which internally circulates the glycol.  

I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its design.   
Flat out at work all week and will be back out it this weekend.

FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking shaft.  $400 for a 
pump.  Whodathunk?   

Damn.   


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)

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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Rick Rohwer via CnC-List]

Where do you look for the parts?  any kits available?  Thanks

Rick
C&C 37+ Paikea
Poulsbo, WA   
> On May 19, 2015, at 3:28 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> David,
>  
> The seals and bearings on the raw water pump are replaceable.  It is 
> certainly cheaper than a new pump.
>  
> Jake
>  
> Jake Brodersen
> “Midnight Mistress”
> C&C 35 Mk-III
> Hampton VA
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of David via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:04 PM
> To: CNC CNC
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...
>  
> Rick,
> 
> Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is from the  
> impeller which internally circulates the glycol.  
> 
> I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its design.   
> Flat out at work all week and will be back out it this weekend.
> 
> FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking shaft.  $400 for 
> a pump.  Whodathunk?   
> 
> Damn.   
> 
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Towing, Insurance, etc.

[Andrew Frame via CnC-List]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their opinions and experiences with 
the assorted ways to accomplish this task. I have a couple of 
possibilities to get this done, and will run them all down for what 
works best for us.



Andrew
C&C 24, Hull #43
Lehigh Acres/Alva, FL


On 05/18/2015 11:55 AM, Andrew Frame via CnC-List wrote:


Hello folks. New guy here again.

I have discovered that SeaTow is the company to stay away from. But what
about BoatUS?

My specifics are not extreme: river sailing or always in sight of the
coast, always daytime.

My concern is liability in case of an accident with another vessel, or
some kind of disability like a dismasting due to a snapped stay.

24' C&C, no engine. 45-thrust trolling motor for maneuvering, and sail
under way.

Thanks for your thoughts.




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Re: Stus-List New Engine

[Rick Rohwer via CnC-List]

Tim,,
I have gone both ways on this issue in the past.  I had the rebuild done in 
Alameda, CA on my Westerbeke 18 hp.  I thought the shop was reputable, as they 
did a lot of this kind of work.  Terrible results!  I think they just repainted 
it and they were out of business when the problems resurfaced.  Parts for that 
engine were getting hard to find, so opted for a new Perkins. The new engine 
was about 30% more power upon replacement, but a ton of money for both engine 
and installation.  
Sounds like the current set up on Mojito is working so I’d go with the best 
outfit you can find to rebuild.  Ship it somewhere else if you have to in order 
to get a first class remanufacture.  If it’s a replacement block, make sure the 
reputation of the shop is impeccable.  
Sounds like you can do the install! and gives you the opportunity to upgrade 
and beef up systems as you put the new engine in.   It is a pain though, so 
Best of luck to you!
Cheers,

Rick
C&C37+ Paikea
Poulsbo, WA

> On May 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Kim Brown via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Tim 
> I would go with the remanufactured 3gmf30. This assumes you are comfortable
> with the vendor. The 3gmxxx seems to be about right for the boat and it
> should be a drop in replacement. That is what is in my 35-3.  I believe the
> new yanmars flipped sides for everything so oil filter, exhaust etc is
> opposite. I am sure it is doable but why spend an xtra $5-6k for additional
> aggravation. I am sure the Beta's are fine (Dad loved his Kubota tractor)
> but you already have the Yanmar panel, exhaust etc in place - The panel was
> identical between my 2gmf on a prior boat and current 3gm30f.  Should be
> plug and play.  Not like you'll likely get many more $ on resale and
> assuming a good rebuilt you should be good for years.  You can buy a lot of
> expensive Yanmar impellers for the dollars saved. Actually it'll be the same
> impeller you already have in your spare box. 
> Kim Brown
> TrustMe!!!
> 35-3   
> 
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:57:37 -0400
> From: Tim Goodyear 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Stus-List  New Engine
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I've been trying to chase down a small but persistent oil leak for the last
> two years, so we took the engine out of Mojito this winter.  There are pin
> holes in the oil lines, a couple of leaks from fuel lines  and the crank
> shaft is pitted at the rear main seal.  A replacement will get me back in
> the water much faster than rebuilding the existing engine; I'd appreciate
> your thoughts on options.
> 
> "remanufactured" engine - there's a 3GM30F for sales on
> dieselenginetrader.com for $4,850 plus core.  This should be a straight drop
> in for my current 3GMF; my transmission was rebuilt two years ago, so I'd
> keep that and hope for a discount.
> 
> Replacement new Yanmar - the 3YM30F is $10,700 or so and should be a quick
> replacement job (but the oil filter placement will be pretty inaccessible
> next to the quarterberth.  Re-use current transmission.
> 
> Replacement Beta - either the 20 ($7,968 new / $5,998 1-year old used) or
> 25 (price to come).  This would mean some work on the engine beds (raising
> them, so not too bad) and I probably couldn't use the current transmission.
> 
> This is not what I'd planned to be doing this time of year - I would like to
> get sailing soon!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim
> Mojito
> C&C 35-3
> Branford, CT
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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> 


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Re: Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

start with the shift cable.  Is it moving the lever on the tranny the whole
way.  Hope that's it!

Joel

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:41 PM, OldSteveH via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
> All is good except for going backwards . . .
>
> It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
> Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:
>
> Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
> Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
> calls for every 5 years.
> I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it.
>
> I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could
> it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
> familiar with the gearbox on this engine.
>
> Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the
> water?
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>


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Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Stuffing box

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

On the Buck Algonquin bronze stuffing boxes this works well:

http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/10-in-wide-opening-adjustable-wrench/A-p8306623e

Handles about a 2" nut.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1
 
 

Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 12:43:34 -0300 
From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  
To: C&C list  
Subject: Stus-List Stuffing box 
Message-ID:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
 
First sail/journey of the year.  Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay - approx 
50 nautical miles.  
Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around Chebucto 
Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the nose.  
Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the new 
one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to be 
re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more.  Advice 
appreciated. I've read about it - difficult? 
 
On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1 drop per 
second 
Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB Blaster 
- but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than spinning whole 
unit.  
Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK? 
 
Mark 
 
CS 30 Prosecco 
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Re: Stus-List Problem with reverse

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Steve,

It sound like your transmission needs to be replaced, or will be very soon. 
Shifting in high RPMs will damage it very quickly.  Here’s a quick test — see 
you can manually shift the boat into reverse from the lever on the engine at 
low RPMs. If the boat goes into gear, you may just need to tighten or replace 
the shifting cable. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On May 19, 2015, at 12:41 PM, OldSteveH via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
> All is good except for going backwards . . . 
> 
> It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
> Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:
> 
> Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
> Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
> calls for every 5 years.
> I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it. 
> 
> I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could
> it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
> familiar with the gearbox on this engine.
> 
> Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the water?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

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Stus-List Problem with reverse

[OldSteveH via CnC-List]

Hello all, Diamond Girl launched on the weekend.
All is good except for going backwards . . . 

It only kicked in when I revved the engine fairly high.
Happened two more times. So here is some back ground and my questions:

Yanmar 3GM engine, exc condition, well maintained, 450 hrs.
Variprop 2 blade 7 years old, last relubed 2014 with spec grease, manuf
calls for every 5 years.
I did not relube this year, did not think it needed it. 

I also redid stuffing box packing this year, drip rate looks good but could
it be binding and not allowing tranny to go into reverse gear? I am not
familiar with the gearbox on this engine.

Any thoughts on possible causes and fixes now that the boat is in the water?

Thanks

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON




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Re: Stus-List Stuffing box

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

A PYI shaft coupling isolator makes engine alignment checking pretty easy.
However, the couplings are made with an alignment cone that allows the
bolts to be loose (finger tight) and for a gap of a few mils to be
created.  As you rotate the shaft the difference between each axis should
be less than 3 mils.  Using feeler gages measure the gap at one of the
coupling bolts, rotate the shaft 90° and remeassure at the same bolt.
Rotate another 90°, and remeasure.  Do the final 90° and remeassure.  Move
the engine as needed to reduce the difference.  Do the whole 360° again and
repeat the adjustments until less than 3 mils difference.  Getting to the
coupling and the engine mounts is probably the hardest part, depending on
boat design.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On May 19, 2015 11:43 AM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> First sail/journey of the year. Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay -
> approx 50 nautical miles.
> Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around
> Chebucto Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the
> nose.
> Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the
> new one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to
> be re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more. Advice
> appreciated. I've read about it - difficult?
>
> On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1
> drop per second
> Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB
> Blaster - but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than
> spinning whole unit.
> Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK?
>
> Mark
>
> CS 30 Prosecco
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Stus-List New Engine

[Kim Brown via CnC-List]

Tim 
I would go with the remanufactured 3gmf30. This assumes you are comfortable
with the vendor. The 3gmxxx seems to be about right for the boat and it
should be a drop in replacement. That is what is in my 35-3.  I believe the
new yanmars flipped sides for everything so oil filter, exhaust etc is
opposite. I am sure it is doable but why spend an xtra $5-6k for additional
aggravation. I am sure the Beta's are fine (Dad loved his Kubota tractor)
but you already have the Yanmar panel, exhaust etc in place - The panel was
identical between my 2gmf on a prior boat and current 3gm30f.  Should be
plug and play.  Not like you'll likely get many more $ on resale and
assuming a good rebuilt you should be good for years.  You can buy a lot of
expensive Yanmar impellers for the dollars saved. Actually it'll be the same
impeller you already have in your spare box. 
Kim Brown
TrustMe!!!
35-3   


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:57:37 -0400
From: Tim Goodyear 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List  New Engine
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I've been trying to chase down a small but persistent oil leak for the last
two years, so we took the engine out of Mojito this winter.  There are pin
holes in the oil lines, a couple of leaks from fuel lines  and the crank
shaft is pitted at the rear main seal.  A replacement will get me back in
the water much faster than rebuilding the existing engine; I'd appreciate
your thoughts on options.

"remanufactured" engine - there's a 3GM30F for sales on
dieselenginetrader.com for $4,850 plus core.  This should be a straight drop
in for my current 3GMF; my transmission was rebuilt two years ago, so I'd
keep that and hope for a discount.

Replacement new Yanmar - the 3YM30F is $10,700 or so and should be a quick
replacement job (but the oil filter placement will be pretty inaccessible
next to the quarterberth.  Re-use current transmission.

Replacement Beta - either the 20 ($7,968 new / $5,998 1-year old used) or
25 (price to come).  This would mean some work on the engine beds (raising
them, so not too bad) and I probably couldn't use the current transmission.

This is not what I'd planned to be doing this time of year - I would like to
get sailing soon!

Thanks,

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT


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Re: Stus-List Stuffing box

[David via CnC-List]

I'm a DIY guy.  But some things are best left to the professionals.   Aligning 
an engine is one of them.

Get some high quality monkey wrenches and oppose.

If your spinning the whole unit your hose clamps may be loose or the wrong 
type.   

IMHO.  Have a mechanic sort the whole thing out and you can pick it up 
thereafter. 

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 12:43:34 -0300
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Stuffing box
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: drbod...@accesswave.ca



First sail/journey of the year.  Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay - approx 
50 nautical miles. 

Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around Chebucto 
Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the nose. 

Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the new 
one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to be 
re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more.  Advice 
appreciated. I've read about it - difficult?



On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1 drop per 
second

Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB Blaster 
- but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than spinning whole 
unit. 

Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK?



Mark



CS 30 Prosecco








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Re: Stus-List Stuffing box

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I prefer a monkey wrench.  You don't want to twist and break the rubber
hose!!!

Joel

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  Don't tell anybody, but I've used (big) channel locks.
> Gary
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
> *To:* C&C list 
> *Cc:* Dr. Mark Bodnar 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:43 AM
> *Subject:* Stus-List Stuffing box
>
>
> First sail/journey of the year. Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay -
> approx 50 nautical miles.
> Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around
> Chebucto Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the
> nose.
> Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the
> new one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to
> be re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more. Advice
> appreciated. I've read about it - difficult?
>
> On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1
> drop per second
> Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB
> Blaster - but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than
> spinning whole unit.
> Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK?
>
> Mark
>
> CS 30 Prosecco
>
>
>
>  --
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
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>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Stuffing box

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Don't tell anybody, but I've used (big) channel locks. 
Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
  To: C&C list 
  Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:43 AM
  Subject: Stus-List Stuffing box



  First sail/journey of the year. Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay - approx 
50 nautical miles. 
  Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around Chebucto 
Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the nose. 
  Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the 
new one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to be 
re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more. Advice 
appreciated. I've read about it - difficult?

  On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1 drop 
per second
  Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB 
Blaster - but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than spinning 
whole unit. 
  Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK?

  Mark

  CS 30 Prosecco






--


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Stus-List Stuffing box

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

First sail/journey of the year.  Bedford to Deep Cove in Mahoney Bay - approx 
50 nautical miles. 
Left Bedford Yacht Club and motored out thru Halifax Barbour, around Chebucto 
Head and through Samboro passage - minimal wind and dead on the nose. 
Quite pleased with motor overall. I replaced a broken engine mount and the new 
one (a generic mount I modified to fit) was way better. Engine needs to be 
re-aligned - hopefully that will decrease vibration even more.  Advice 
appreciated. I've read about it - difficult?

On arrival my stuffing box was dripping a fair bit. Little more than 1 drop per 
second
Tried to tighten but couldn't separate the 2 nuts. Sprayed a little PB Blaster 
- but I'll need a second wrench to counter with rather than spinning whole 
unit. 
Any suggestions? Are locking pliers OK?

Mark

CS 30 Prosecco



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Re: Stus-List New Engine

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Josh,

I appreciate the advice - that was the approach I'd have taken if the
galley wasn't already in pieces and the engine resting on a workbench.  I'd
hate to go through that again!

Thanks,

Tim

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You've lived with the leaks this long.  Wait till fall and then rebuild or
> replace.
>
> I talked on the phone to the guy on diesel engine trader.  I was
> impressed.  If/when I need a rebuild he will be high on my list.
>
> I would probably opt to replace the oil and fuel lines as time permits on
> the rainy days through this season and then live with the shaft seal leak
> indefinitely.  Keep some absorbant pillows under the engine and change
> frequently.  Very few diesel engines are leak tight.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New Engine

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You've lived with the leaks this long.  Wait till fall and then rebuild or
replace.

I talked on the phone to the guy on diesel engine trader.  I was
impressed.  If/when I need a rebuild he will be high on my list.

I would probably opt to replace the oil and fuel lines as time permits on
the rainy days through this season and then live with the shaft seal leak
indefinitely.  Keep some absorbant pillows under the engine and change
frequently.  Very few diesel engines are leak tight.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On May 19, 2015 9:58 AM, "Tim Goodyear via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I've been trying to chase down a small but persistent oil leak for the
> last two years, so we took the engine out of Mojito this winter.  There are
> pin holes in the oil lines, a couple of leaks from fuel lines  and the
> crank shaft is pitted at the rear main seal.  A replacement will get me
> back in the water much faster than rebuilding the existing engine; I'd
> appreciate your thoughts on options.
>
> "remanufactured" engine - there's a 3GM30F for sales on
> dieselenginetrader.com for $4,850 plus core.  This should be a straight
> drop in for my current 3GMF; my transmission was rebuilt two years ago, so
> I'd keep that and hope for a discount.
>
> Replacement new Yanmar - the 3YM30F is $10,700 or so and should be a quick
> replacement job (but the oil filter placement will be pretty inaccessible
> next to the quarterberth.  Re-use current transmission.
>
> Replacement Beta - either the 20 ($7,968 new / $5,998 1-year old used) or
> 25 (price to come).  This would mean some work on the engine beds (raising
> them, so not too bad) and I probably couldn't use the current transmission.
>
> This is not what I'd planned to be doing this time of year - I would like
> to get sailing soon!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> Mojito
> C&C 35-3
> Branford, CT
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New Engine

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

Tim,

I went the Beta route on Perception – replaced a 2GM that was going to cost 2/3 
of a new Beta to rebuild – without touching alternator, tranny, or starter – 
Put in the 25 HP Beta, a tight squeeze, but fit.  Had spacers made to  fit the 
motor mounts, went with the shallow sump, and upgraded alternator.  Install was 
straight forward, and love the engine – oil changes are easy now too.

Yanmar parts in Canada are ridiculously expensive – another reason to switch.

Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 9:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tim Goodyear
Subject: Stus-List New Engine

I've been trying to chase down a small but persistent oil leak for the last two 
years, so we took the engine out of Mojito this winter.  There are pin holes in 
the oil lines, a couple of leaks from fuel lines  and the crank shaft is pitted 
at the rear main seal.  A replacement will get me back in the water much faster 
than rebuilding the existing engine; I'd appreciate your thoughts on options.

"remanufactured" engine - there's a 3GM30F for sales on 
dieselenginetrader.com for $4,850 plus core.  
This should be a straight drop in for my current 3GMF; my transmission was 
rebuilt two years ago, so I'd keep that and hope for a discount.

Replacement new Yanmar - the 3YM30F is $10,700 or so and should be a quick 
replacement job (but the oil filter placement will be pretty inaccessible next 
to the quarterberth.  Re-use current transmission.

Replacement Beta - either the 20 ($7,968 new / $5,998 1-year old used) or 25 
(price to come).  This would mean some work on the engine beds (raising them, 
so not too bad) and I probably couldn't use the current transmission.

This is not what I'd planned to be doing this time of year - I would like to 
get sailing soon!

Thanks,

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
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Stus-List New Engine

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

I've been trying to chase down a small but persistent oil leak for the last
two years, so we took the engine out of Mojito this winter.  There are pin
holes in the oil lines, a couple of leaks from fuel lines  and the crank
shaft is pitted at the rear main seal.  A replacement will get me back in
the water much faster than rebuilding the existing engine; I'd appreciate
your thoughts on options.

"remanufactured" engine - there's a 3GM30F for sales on
dieselenginetrader.com for $4,850 plus core.  This should be a straight
drop in for my current 3GMF; my transmission was rebuilt two years ago, so
I'd keep that and hope for a discount.

Replacement new Yanmar - the 3YM30F is $10,700 or so and should be a quick
replacement job (but the oil filter placement will be pretty inaccessible
next to the quarterberth.  Re-use current transmission.

Replacement Beta - either the 20 ($7,968 new / $5,998 1-year old used) or
25 (price to come).  This would mean some work on the engine beds (raising
them, so not too bad) and I probably couldn't use the current transmission.

This is not what I'd planned to be doing this time of year - I would like
to get sailing soon!

Thanks,

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
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Re: Stus-List Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller retaining

[kelly petew via CnC-List]

Thanks for all the advice.  
I tried vinegar, and it worked!!
After about 24 hours of soaking in vinegar, I was able to easily extract the 
inferior metal, using a hammer and a punch.
 
Pete W.
Siren. Song
 '91 C & C 30 MkII
Deltaville, Va.

 
> From: cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 112, Issue 38
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 09:12:42 -0400
> 
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> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re:  Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller   retaining
>   pin (Rick Rohwer)
>2. Re:  C&C 29-2 Prop walk (Gary Russell)
>3.  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (scott gary)
>4. Re:  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (Dennis C.)
>5. Re:  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (Gary Russell)
>6. Re:  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (scott gary)
>7. Re:  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (Jake Brodersen)
>8. Re:  Keel Bolt problem 35-3 (Wally Bryant)
>9. Re:  Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller retaining
>   pin (Russ & Melody)
>   10. Re:  C&C 29-2 Prop walk (Knowles Rich)
>   11. Re:  C&C 29-2 Prop walk (Gary Russell)
>   12.  Impeller Damn... (David)
>   13. Re:  Impeller Damn... (Josh Muckley)
>   14. Re:  Impeller Damn... (David)
>   15. Re:  Impeller Damn... (Josh Muckley)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 10:04:23 -0700
> From: Rick Rohwer 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller
>   retaining pin
> Message-ID: <3c46d7b7-41cd-490c-82b3-fc5e99850...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Pete, 
> For what it?s worth, Citric Acid will eat the rust(iron) and not effect the 
> stainless.  I am not sure how you would use that info.  Maybe soak the area 
> intermittently with a 10% citric solution.  I don?t think it will harm your 
> fiberglass.  
> The powdered drink ?Tang? is high in Citric acid.  
> Cheers
> Rick
> C&C 37+ Paikea
> Poulsbo, WA 
> > On May 15, 2015, at 4:36 PM, kellype...@msn.com via CnC-List 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Listers, please give me advice.
> > Due to inferior steel, a cotter ring has rusted badly, and I am unable to 
> > remove the remnants from the pin.
> > So far, a hardened-steel drill bit (Irwin brand) is simply enlarging the 
> > hole around the edges, but not removing the ring remnants.
> > Is there chemical solution? 
> > Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
> >  
> > Pete W.
> > Siren. Song 
> > '91 C & C 30 MkII
> > Deltaville, Va.
> >  
> >  
> > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Tablet
> >  
> > ___
> > 
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Re: Stus-List Mirage in Newport

[Harry Hallgring via CnC-List]

Thanks for the kind words Pierre!

Here are a few shots from Sunday's VOR leg start. We were on Alvimedica's chase 
boat...great day!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46147579@N08/sets/72157652015578858

Harry
Sent from my iPhone

> On May 18, 2015, at 09:55, Pierre Tremblay via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I saw Harry's Mirage in Newport during the VOR weekend. Nicest boat on the 
> water. Will post pictures somewhere and email the link to the list.
> 
> Pierre Tremblay 
> Avalanche #54988 
> C&C38-3 WK, hull #76
> ___
> 
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> 
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Stus-List C&C 29 - $2500

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

If someone is looking for a project: 1978 C&C 29 - $2500 (CAD)


I wonder if that light blue is the original gelcoat. Could be a pretty boat
again.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto
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Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

On May 19, 2015, at 6:15 AM, Danny Haughey  wrote:

> Hi David,
> 
> Two things stood out for me in you message.  
> 
> 1. Did you put the same end caps on the same side they came off?
Good thought.  I have no idea as they look identical.  I guess I could swap 
them, but there is only one part number so they should be the same.
> 
> 2. O-rings don't typically rest against a gasket.  They are usually between 
> two metal pieces.
The only way that would work is if the O ring were outside the cap between the 
bolt head and the end cap.  That is not what is in the picture on the Pbase 
site and not what I remember, but I could try it.
> 
> Hope this helps in some way.  Also, now that I always have a digital camera 
> handy, I take lots of pictures of anything I take apart during the dis 
> assembly for reference during assembly..
I try to do this, but I often forget and this seemed so simple (Ha Ha) that I 
didn’t.  Someday I will learn that nothing is simple and just take pictures of 
every project.  Thanks- Dave

> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> From my Android phone 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
> Date: 05/18/2015 10:05 PM (GMT-05:00) 
> To: CnC CnC discussion list  
> Cc: David Knecht  
> Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem 
> 
> 
> I hope someone can help with this problem.  I removed my heat exchanger from 
> my Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop and 
> then I repainted it.  As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not 
> pressure test it because it came back disassembled.  I did not think much of 
> it at the time.  When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the 
> end caps were secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do 
> its job since I tightened the bolts as much as possible.  Aries splashed 
> today and when I started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end cap 
> on one side an dripping from the other.  The bolt is as tight as I can get 
> it, but it still seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to seal. 
>  I was a bit confused about the assembly process.  The order I thought was 
> correct was the plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over that.  
> The plate has a slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but it seems 
> like the O ring might be preventing the plate from making good contact with 
> the gasket.  The way I assembled it looks like the picture on the Pbase site 
> which is the only photo I can find 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger).  Any words of wisdom out 
> there?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I used a new gasket and o-Ring from Toad.  Marine.  I did have a new thought 
about the problem overnight.  For some reason that I can no longer remember, I 
put teflon tape on the threads of the end cap bolts.  Was that a mistake and 
the teflon tape is keeping the bolts from tightening?  Dave

On May 19, 2015, at 6:26 AM, Jake Brodersen  wrote:

> Dave,
>  
> Is the gasket new?  I doubt that a used gasket would seal in this situation.  
> It has been crushed under heat and pressure.  It probably has taken a set 
> that keeps it from sealing properly.
>  
> Jake
>  
> Jake Brodersen
> “Midnight Mistress”
> C&C 35 Mk-III
> Hampton VA
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David 
> Knecht via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:06 PM
> To: CnC CnC discussion list
> Cc: David Knecht
> Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem
>  
> I hope someone can help with this problem.  I removed my heat exchanger from 
> my Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop and 
> then I repainted it.  As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not 
> pressure test it because it came back disassembled.  I did not think much of 
> it at the time.  When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the 
> end caps were secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do 
> its job since I tightened the bolts as much as possible.  Aries splashed 
> today and when I started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end cap 
> on one side an dripping from the other.  The bolt is as tight as I can get 
> it, but it still seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to seal. 
>  I was a bit confused about the assembly process.  The order I thought was 
> correct was the plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over that.  
> The plate has a slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but it seems 
> like the O ring might be preventing the plate from making good contact with 
> the gasket.  The way I assembled it looks like the picture on the Pbase site 
> which is the only photo I can find 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger).  Any words of wisdom out 
> there?  Thanks- Dave
>  
>  
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
>  

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

David,

 

The seals and bearings on the raw water pump are replaceable.  It is
certainly cheaper than a new pump.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

"Midnight Mistress"

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:04 PM
To: CNC CNC
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Stus-List Impeller Damn...

 

Rick,

Thank you.   Correct on all counts except the missing vane is from the
impeller which internally circulates the glycol.  

I need to do a bit of digging around the Sen-Dur exchanger and its design.
Flat out at work all week and will be back out it this weekend.

FYI...The raw water pump needs to be replaced too.   Leaking shaft.  $400
for a pump.  Whodathunk?   

Damn.   


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



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Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Dave,

 

Is the gasket new?  I doubt that a used gasket would seal in this situation.
It has been crushed under heat and pressure.  It probably has taken a set
that keeps it from sealing properly.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

"Midnight Mistress"

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:06 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

 

I hope someone can help with this problem.  I removed my heat exchanger from
my Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop
and then I repainted it.  As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not
pressure test it because it came back disassembled.  I did not think much of
it at the time.  When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the
end caps were secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do
its job since I tightened the bolts as much as possible.  Aries splashed
today and when I started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end
cap on one side an dripping from the other.  The bolt is as tight as I can
get it, but it still seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to
seal.  I was a bit confused about the assembly process.  The order I thought
was correct was the plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over
that.  The plate has a slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but
it seems like the O ring might be preventing the plate from making good
contact with the gasket.  The way I assembled it looks like the picture on
the Pbase site which is the only photo I can find
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger).  Any words of wisdom
out there?  Thanks- Dave

 

 

Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

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Re: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi David,

Two things stood out for me in you message.  

1. Did you put the same end caps on the same side they came off?

2. O-rings don't typically rest against a gasket.  They are usually between two 
metal pieces.

Hope this helps in some way.  Also, now that I always have a digital camera 
handy, I take lots of pictures of anything I take apart during the dis assembly 
for reference during assembly..

Danny


From my Android phone

 Original message 
From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Date: 05/18/2015  10:05 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: CnC CnC discussion list  
Cc: David Knecht  
Subject: Stus-List Heat exchanger problem 
 
I hope someone can help with this problem.  I removed my heat exchanger from my 
Universal M4-30 last winter and had it cleaned out and a radiator shop and then 
I repainted it.  As far as I can tell, the guy who did it did not pressure test 
it because it came back disassembled.  I did not think much of it at the time.  
When I reassembled the end plates, it did not feel like the end caps were 
secured against the housing, but I assumed the gasket would do its job since I 
tightened the bolts as much as possible.  Aries splashed today and when I 
started up the engine, water was spraying out of the end cap on one side an 
dripping from the other.  The bolt is as tight as I can get it, but it still 
seems to not be putting enough pressure on the caps to seal.  I was a bit 
confused about the assembly process.  The order I thought was correct was the 
plate with the O ring on the bolt and the gasket over that.  The plate has a 
slight recess that I thought was for the O ring, but it seems like the O ring 
might be preventing the plate from making good contact with the gasket.  The 
way I assembled it looks like the picture on the Pbase site which is the only 
photo I can find (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger).  Any 
words of wisdom out there?  Thanks- Dave


Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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