Re: Stus-List Painting a Painted Hull

[Ryan Doyle via CnC-List]

Hey Randy,

Back in May I found myself in a similar situation with my 1976 30-1 - which I 
just recently sold... The wife and I just put a deposit down on a Morgan 382 
and we are pending survey... I hope you all will still talk to me now that I'm 
not officially a C owner. 

Anyhow,  I figured I would repost my experience using Interlux Brigtside one 
part hull paint.  You may decide to go with a two-part Interlux or something 
else entirely... but I hope you find this helpful.  I found the interlux hull 
paint products to be really solid... that said, I do have complaints about the 
Interlux non skid deck paint (mainly that it collects an unbelievable about of 
dirt and it is really hard to clean)... but I'll post about that some other 
time.  

Her hull still looks great after a season.  A few nicks from the dinghy were 
easy to touch up and blended nicely.


Cheers,
Ryan


--- my post from May 2016 ---
Hey all,

I've got the day off, so I wanted to post my experience as a first-time boat 
painter repainting the topsides of my 1976 C 30 with Interlux Brightside and 
Interlux Prekote.  I made some small, but dumb mistakes during this process.  
I'm sure the experts will have a little laugh at my expense, but hopefully this 
post will save other first-time painters some grief. 

When I bought my boat back in October, I knew I was going to repaint her.  The 
hull was robin's egg blue... which many people think is a beautiful color, but 
I don't.  The paint job was sloppy with lots of thick brush marks, and it had 
been worn off in a few places from rubbing of her lines and fenders.

This was the state of her hull before:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g8d5sXYVWGMGt4dHNRS0tZSXM

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g8d5sXYVWGRGJaVTFUa0FKcTA

I spent my mornings before work this winter rewiring the entire boat - crawling 
around in cockpit lockers and getting covered in 40-year-old boat grime.  So 
when the weather broke and it was finally time to paint, I was excited to work 
outside.

I bought 8 cans of Steel Gray Interlux Brightside (A.K.A. Way Too Much... but 
more on that later) and 2 cans of Gray Interlux PreKote from defender.com for a 
total of $351.90 before shipping.  

When the paint arrived, I carefully taped off the toe rail at the top, and the 
line where the bottom paint starts with Scotch Blue Painter's tape.

Looking like a CDC agent in my 3m respirator, gloves, and cover-alls, I got to 
work sanding.  If you read online, you'll quickly learn that sanding is the key 
to a nice finish.  Thankfully, I took this advice seriously.  

I sanded the old paint off using 150 grit pads on my cheap Black and Decker 
orbit sander.  I sanded until I could just see the old paint disappear, then I 
moved on to a new section until I had gone over the whole hull.  I then wiped 
down the whole hull with a rag soaked in Interlux 333 brushing liquid

Sanded:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g8d5sXYVWGNGVFWUp4YkpSemM

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g8d5sXYVWGS2Q4bmJhU2JXaWM

I hit those old decals with a blast from my heat gun and they peeled right off.

Now it was time to prime.  I was nervous when I opened the first can of 
Interlux PreKote because the stuff was completely separated - the solids were 
all on the bottom of the can.  I thought maybe I had bought bad paint and I was 
also concerned that the weather - then hovering around 55-60 degrees was too 
cold to apply it.  I took my drill with a mixing bit and mixed up the paint as 
best I could.  This got it to a nice consistency.

Donning zero protective clothing - just an old pair of gym shorts, an old tee 
shirt and brand new sandals - I took a foam roller and rolled on one coat of 
primer.  This primer was very thick and I thought it did a nice job filling 
imperfections. 

Here's where I made dumb mistake #1:  I got covered in paint.  I have plenty of 
experience with interior house paints, and at the time I thought, "No biggie.  
I'll just rise it off with a hose."  Hah.  

As I wet my hands, the water just beaded up and my hands stuck together.  "Oh 
yeah.  Boat paint."

Not wanting to use nasty paint thinners to remove it from skin, I went home and 
used high percentage rubbing alcohol and a towel.  With a lot of elbow grease, 
this took the paint and a few layers of skin off quite nicely.
  
I then waited a day for the primer on the boat to dry.

The next morning, I sanded it.  Sanding will be a recurring theme in this post. 
 I used 150 grit discs again and worked to get the surface as smooth as 
possible.  In tough, uneven places, I sometimes sanded the primer completely 
away, trying to get the surface smooth knowing that I was going to apply 
another coat.

I then wiped the whole hull with a damp rag to remove the sanding dust and 
rolled on another coat of Interlux PreKote - this time with coveralls on.

The next day I sanded again with 220 grit.  Got it to a nice, smooth finish, 
and wiped the hull down again with a damp rag. 

Re: Stus-List Painting a Painted Hull

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Randy,

If you don't KNOW what paint is on the topsides, then the best course is to
sand it all off.  You could try priming over the old paint but you may
encounter compatibility issues.

When I had Touche' painted, we did not know what the previous paint(s)
were.  Rumors around the marina were that it was Imron but nobody knew for
sure.

I prepped the topsides paint by washing with degreaser and sanding with 320
grit.  We sprayed a 3' x 3' test area with Awlcraft, the chosen paint.  In
that small area, the test spray beaded up on the old paint, reacted with
the old paint and generally did some other bad things.   The ONE thing it
didn't do was lay down smoothly as desired.  Oops!!

So, I sanded the old paint off.  I counted at least 2 previous coats.  It
took one day per side.  I used a Hutchins straight line sander similar to
this:

https://www.hutchinsmfg.com/View-Product.aspx?group_id=4346

The results were very good.  Touche', like many older boats, showed post
cure shrinkage.  That is, you could see the pattern of the underlying
roving on the hull.  The Hutchins sander removed the pattern leaving a
smooth hull.  This is important when spraying a shiny top coat.  Repairing
all the blemishes and having a smooth hull prior to painting is critical.
It took three coats of high build primer with sanding between coats to
obtain a suitably smooth hull.  The sanding was followed with a top coat of
Awlcraft.  I get compliments on the paint 5 years later.

Spraying paint isn't incredibly difficult but it does take patience and
technique.  The right combination of air pressure and liquid/air mix takes
a bit of work to achieve.  Finally, the application technique requires
skill to maintain the correct distance as well as trigger on/off when
spraying.  A bit of practice can develop your skill.

Interlux Perfection is billed as a paint somewhat geared to the DIY
market.

BTW, years ago I picked up a Wavelength 24 in Fort Collins and brought it
back to Louisiana.  I picked it up from a marine repair/paint shop.  Very
nicely painted by the lady owner of the shop.  Can't remember any details.
She used Sterling enamel.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:54 PM, RANDY via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Listers-
>
> I've come to the conclusion that Grenadine's hull is painted the same
> color as her original gelcoat (red).  It appears a coat of grey primer was
> painted over the original gelcoat, then a layer of red paint was applied.
> I have no idea what kind of paint was used (is there a way to tell?) or
> when the boat was painted.  What I do know is it's probably time to
> repaint.  She oxidized pretty badly over the course of the summer, even
> though I buffed her three times with a 3M marine product, and waxed her
> with carnuba, before splashing her in the spring.  She looked pretty good
> and shiny back then, but the summer sun took its toll.
>
> So anyway, my question is, what wisdom might you listers have to impart,
> about the proper way to paint over a painted hull?  Grenadine is on the
> hard for five months now, and I'm not afraid of hard work.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best Regards,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C 30-1 #7
> (on the hard in) Ken Caryl, CO
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Stus-List Painting a Painted Hull

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Listers- 

I've come to the conclusion that Grenadine's hull is painted the same color as 
her original gelcoat (red). It appears a coat of grey primer was painted over 
the original gelcoat, then a layer of red paint was applied. I have no idea 
what kind of paint was used (is there a way to tell?) or when the boat was 
painted. What I do know is it's probably time to repaint. She oxidized pretty 
badly over the course of the summer, even though I buffed her three times with 
a 3M marine product, and waxed her with carnuba, before splashing her in the 
spring. She looked pretty good and shiny back then, but the summer sun took its 
toll. 

So anyway, my question is, what wisdom might you listers have to impart, about 
the proper way to paint over a painted hull? Grenadine is on the hard for five 
months now, and I'm not afraid of hard work. 

Thanks in advance. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
(on the hard in) Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List Slip Choice, backing in > Prop Change

[Dave S via CnC-List]

I replaced a Martec with a two blade fixed, and a folding two blade gori.
I like the Gori, it works great, have no issues stopping the boat.   I read
that same article about the 3 blade gori and this did not support my own
experience with the two blade, which was superior to the martec and at
least the equal of the fixed. (which was a different pitch and slightly
larger in diameter)  .

I have been reading the posts about prop walk with some interest.  I dock
Windstar single handed a lot and prop walk is really not a problem for me,
though when forced to think about it, there is l a slight tendency to pull
to port when using reverse + throttle to stop.   Docking port-side-to is so
mildly preferred as to be academic.  Not sure if this is the prop itself,
or the centre-line prop shaft.   Will try some precision backwards driving
for the marina audience next season!

Some photos comparing the Gori to the Martec it replaced.  Photos do not do
justice to the impressive bronze sculpture that is the Gori, (looked great
on my desk at the office) nor is the dried blood clearly visible.   (It
does have some sharp edges that are exposed when disassembled.)

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/10/gori-2-blade-prop.html

Dave  33-2





Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 16:30:35 -0400
From: Michael Brown 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject:
Message-ID: <4165664143-15...@mail.tkg.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The Gori did poorly, though note it was a three blade folding.
Also Gori spec'd the wrong size of prop according to a note
at the end of the article.

It is a good article but I noted that most of the props stopped
from 6 kts in 8 - 10 seconds, the majority of them did 6.4 - 6.65 kts
ahead. For me the biggest differences would be in prop walk
from 9 to 16%, nearly 70% more prop walk force.

Overall the Flex-O-Fold 2 blade looks to be a good choice.
The Gori 2 blade physically is very similar to the Flex-O-Fold.

Anyone have experience testing those two against each other?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: "Nauset Beach" 
?
Mike,

Several people on the list have retired their Martec props for the very
reason you cite: very poor reverse performance. ?Many have changed to 2
blade Flex-O-Fold geared props and the difference in reverse is dramatic. ?

Take a look at a prop test article from Yachting Monthly in the UK that
Flex-O-Fold posted on their website at this link:

http://www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdf

The Gori did not rank very well. ?

I believe everyone who has switched to a Flex prop has been happy, once they
get the pitch correct. ?I was initially spec'ed a 16 Diameter x 13 Pitch to
replace a 16 x 14 Martec,. ?That was too much pitch and was getting severe
cavitation / vibration. ?Now I have a 16 x 12 with better performance and
very little vibration. ?

Brian
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Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Like 'ground' systems, marine systems are required to connect neutral to ground 
at the source of power, whether that is somewhere at the top of the dock for 
shore power, or at the generator or inverter.  One of the most important 
connections at the inverter is from chassis ground to the boat's grounding bus. 
On a marine inverter, there should be a switch that opens the ground to neutral 
connection when it is providing pass-through shore power and closes it when it 
is generating AC power itself.  I presume that the WM 1kW versions have a 
neutral/ground connection within them, but it would be very worth checking!

Tim
Ex-Mojito
Newport, RI

> On Oct 24, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hopefully the inverter will come with very clear instructions on how to
> handle ground and neutral.
> 
> For normal power, ie shore power, this is the US code:
> 
> "The National Electrical Code ( NEC ) requires the AC source to have a 
> Neutral to ground bond
> and that there be only one such bond in the entire AC system."
> 
> So only at the distribution panel is there a bond between neutral and ground. 
> They should
> never be connected together intentionally at the load. This document covers 
> grounding and
> bonding, may also cure insomnia.
> 
> https://www.engineereducators.com/docs/groundingandbonding2-2.pdf
> 
> Grounding an AC system is done to limit the effect of a lightning strike, 
> maybe an upstream
> over voltage fault. Bonding the green wire that comes in a three prong plug ( 
> also called a
> ground ) to Neutral at the distribution panel is to ensure a low resistance 
> return path for
> a fault. So if anything happens the desired effect is that a hot to ground 
> short will occur
> which in turn will cause an over current surge blowing the circuit breakers.
> 
> A person can be electrocuted even with a properly installed and grounded AC 
> system
> without the circuit breakers tripping.
> 
> Unless an inverter has some specific design that uses a ground bonding the 
> Neutral and
> ground together is not going to do much. Check out the last Q from Xantrex 
> here:
> 
> http://www.xantrex.com/documents/tech-doctor/universal/tech4-universal.pdf
> 
> Similarly with an inverter connected to a battery that is not grounded a GFCI 
> should
> never trip. Theoretically in a floating system the power has to come out of 
> the Hot
> lead and return in the Neutral. There will never be a ground fault to trip a 
> GFCI.
> There is no ground.
> 
> I suppose an inverter manufacturer could create a third connection back to the
> power circuit Neutral that bypasses the GFCI. A short to that wire would cause
> an imbalance and trip the GFCI. Then you would be connecting a floating
> Neutral to the loads "ground" which may be exactly what the Xantrex article 
> says
> not to do.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>  
> 
> 
> 
> From: Ron Ricci  
> 
> David, 
> 
> I've followed some of this thread and have a few concerns where some have 
> mentioned using an inexpensive inverter.   
> 
> Using an inverter that is not intended for marine use or not properly 
> grounded can cause problems.  An inverter can produce short duration spikes 
> which exceed the insulation rating of most wires.  This becomes an issue in 
> wet areas and will cause insulation failure.   
> 
> There are other issues relating to inducing corrosion.  A friend who 
> coincidentally keeps his boat in RI and is the technical support guru for a 
> company that sells variable frequency drives (inverters for AC motors) had 
> to replace his propellers when he used an inverter he bought from Harbor 
> Freight.  It was probably fine for anything other than marine use. 
> 
> If the neutral on the inverter is not grounded, the neutral can kill you 
> regardless of the presence of a GFCI.   
> 
> Just my thoughts, 
> 
> Ron Ricci 
> S/V Patriot 
> C 37+ 
> Bristol, RI 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List Bow roller options

[Eugene Fodor via CnC-List]

I have a C 29 mark 2 and I'm looking for thoughts on bow roller options.
I saw some of the custom designs on the website, but I'm wondering if there
are any off the shelf rollers that will work with the C cast metal
bowsprit/nose. I measured the channel on it and it's 1-13/16 inches and
most OD channels on bow roller are 2". Has anyone found a simple solution
to this?

Thanks,

Gene
"Hawk"
C 29-2
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Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I think you have it, that is how a GFCI works.

In the case of an inverter that is floating use of a ground is a bit of an 
oxymoron.

The principle is that every electron that comes out of one connection has to go
back to the other connection. If the GFCI is directly connected to the two 
connections
on the inverter, then two connections to the load the current should always be
the same. There is no other path for the electrons to take.

As Joe points out you should be able to grab either line and stand in a puddle
of water without getting a shock or tripping the GFCI. There is no path for the
current back to the other terminal.

If you add a ground or connect to a ground now there is a second path
likely to whichever side is deemed the neutral. That connection is to the
power source and bypasses the GFCI. So if the ground conducts any
current the flow through the GFCI is not balanced and it will trip.

The ground lead does not have to connect to the GFCI, maybe it does
but there is no need.

The two UL standards, which may seem a bit strange at first, make sense
in that they accommodate what may be already in place that the inverter
is connecting to. In a power failure backup mode to a wired building there
will be a ground to neutral bond already at the distribution panel if the
inverter is connecting there. With no utility involved ( off grid ) the wiring
codes may still require a ground and bonding in the inverter.

On a boat I do not know what to recommend. If the loads ( appliances )
are all three prong, all the outlets are wired with ground and the inverter
supports a bonded ground and GFCI maybe that is the way to hook it up.
If the inverter auto switches from battery to shore power then you are
wired normally when on shore power. If the AC is stand alone or a three
pole switch completely disconnects when going to shore power wiring
in a ground and GFCI is not going to hurt. Doesn't help much either.

So if the inverter is floating and has no ground you cannot get a ground
fault shock. If there is a ground wired in you could get a shock but the
GFCI should trip. Maybe having the GFCI in is a good thing in that if there
was a defect in the load you would never know it without a ground. With
it the GFCI would keep tripping letting you know something is wrong.

Not that there is ever any wiring problems on old sailboats 

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



From: Tortuga  

"Similarly with an inverter connected to a battery that is not grounded a 
GFCI should 
never trip. Theoretically in a floating system the power has to come out of 
the Hot 
lead and return in the Neutral. There will never be a ground fault to trip 
a GFCI. 
There is no ground." 
 
I'm not an electrician, but my limited understanding is that a Ground Fault 
Circuit Interrupter monitors the hot and neutral leads and interrupts the 
circuit almost instantly if it detects a difference between them. The 
ground lead does not come into it. 
 
The Xantrex Freedom HF 1000 that I mentioned in an earlier post is *UL458* 
-listed. 
 
"The two UL standards differ in how they handle AC system grounding: 
*UL1741*-listed inverters must allow for the neutral-to-ground bond to 
*only* occur at the main AC service panel. *UL458*-listed inverters have 
internal neutral-to-ground switching relays to allow for this bond to occur 
at the inverter if in off-grid mode, OR at the utility power service if it 
is connected to a utility hookup." 
 
Perhaps I'm missing something. 
 
Derek Kennedy 
SV Tortuga, 30 mk1 
Ballantyne's Cove, NS 
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Slip Choice, backing in > Prop Change

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The Gori did poorly, though note it was a three blade folding.
Also Gori spec'd the wrong size of prop according to a note
at the end of the article.

It is a good article but I noted that most of the props stopped
from 6 kts in 8 - 10 seconds, the majority of them did 6.4 - 6.65 kts
ahead. For me the biggest differences would be in prop walk
from 9 to 16%, nearly 70% more prop walk force.

Overall the Flex-O-Fold 2 blade looks to be a good choice.
The Gori 2 blade physically is very similar to the Flex-O-Fold.

Anyone have experience testing those two against each other?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: "Nauset Beach"  
 
Mike, 
 
Several people on the list have retired their Martec props for the very 
reason you cite: very poor reverse performance.  Many have changed to 2 
blade Flex-O-Fold geared props and the difference in reverse is dramatic.   
 
Take a look at a prop test article from Yachting Monthly in the UK that 
Flex-O-Fold posted on their website at this link:  
 
http://www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdf  
 
The Gori did not rank very well.   
 
I believe everyone who has switched to a Flex prop has been happy, once they 
get the pitch correct.  I was initially spec'ed a 16 Diameter x 13 Pitch to 
replace a 16 x 14 Martec,.  That was too much pitch and was getting severe 
cavitation / vibration.  Now I have a 16 x 12 with better performance and 
very little vibration.   
 
Brian 
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

GFCI outlets compare current in the hot and neutral and trip if it is not the 
same.
If an inverter has no connection at all to ground, i.e. a floating AC system, 
connecting either hot or neutral to ground would have no effect and not trip 
the ground fault. You could, in theory, sit neck deep in water and hold onto 
one of the AC wires and not feel a thing. (DO NOT TRY AT HOME)
The reason shore power works with GCFI outlets is the neutral and ground are 
connected. If you come into contact with a hot wire and your body is grounded 
at all, the current will flow out the hot, through you, and back to ground via 
some other means than the neutral wire. The ground fault senses this and trips. 
Likewise leaks and shorts to a grounded piece of equipment would trip it. Do 
note you can still kill yourself by grabbing hot and neutral.
I have a 300 watt and 1000 watt inverter and can switch between them. Either 
one will trip the ground faults if tested, so they both connect the AC side to 
ground somehow back through the DC negative connection. I need to go test them 
and see exactly how. It could be the standard neutral to ground connection or 
it could be something goofy like the power transistors being grounded at a 
center point and each side of the AC circuit is on one side of a center ground.
Just an FYI, am 99% sure commercial ships got away from grounding issues and 
use floating AC.

Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tortuga via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 15:49
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tortuga 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

"Similarly with an inverter connected to a battery that is not grounded a GFCI 
should
never trip. Theoretically in a floating system the power has to come out of the 
Hot
lead and return in the Neutral. There will never be a ground fault to trip a 
GFCI.
There is no ground."

I'm not an electrician, but my limited understanding is that a Ground Fault 
Circuit Interrupter monitors the hot and neutral leads and interrupts the 
circuit almost instantly if it detects a difference between them. The ground 
lead does not come into it.

The Xantrex Freedom HF 1000 that I mentioned in an earlier post is UL458-listed.

"The two UL standards differ in how they handle AC system grounding: 
UL1741-listed inverters must allow for the neutral-to-ground bond to only occur 
at the main AC service panel. UL458-listed inverters have internal 
neutral-to-ground switching relays to allow for this bond to occur at the 
inverter if in off-grid mode, OR at the utility power service if it is 
connected to a utility hookup."

Perhaps I'm missing something.

Derek Kennedy
SV Tortuga, 30 mk1
Ballantyne's Cove, NS


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Tortuga via CnC-List]

"Similarly with an inverter connected to a battery that is not grounded a
GFCI should
never trip. Theoretically in a floating system the power has to come out of
the Hot
lead and return in the Neutral. There will never be a ground fault to trip
a GFCI.
There is no ground."

I'm not an electrician, but my limited understanding is that a Ground Fault
Circuit Interrupter monitors the hot and neutral leads and interrupts the
circuit almost instantly if it detects a difference between them. The
ground lead does not come into it.

The Xantrex Freedom HF 1000 that I mentioned in an earlier post is *UL458*
-listed.

"The two UL standards differ in how they handle AC system grounding:
*UL1741*-listed inverters must allow for the neutral-to-ground bond to
*only* occur at the main AC service panel. *UL458*-listed inverters have
internal neutral-to-ground switching relays to allow for this bond to occur
at the inverter if in off-grid mode, OR at the utility power service if it
is connected to a utility hookup."

Perhaps I'm missing something.

Derek Kennedy
SV Tortuga, 30 mk1
Ballantyne's Cove, NS
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Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I saw a real Bruce in a consignment store. Worth getting?
My Danforth is usually very good here when it digs down into the clay. 
Sometimes it is about impossible to get loose. OTOH sometimes it gets one 
oyster shell on each fluke and does nothing ☹
Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I
22 pound Danforth HT and 16 pound Fortress that will plane on the surface if 
dragged at 6 knots

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 12:45
To: 1 CnC List 
Cc: Jim Watts 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

A friend has done extensive anchor testing, if you don't watch any of his other 
videos, watch this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0. He picked 
the Spade as the best design for himself, partly because the roll bar anchors 
didn't work well on his setup.
I use a 35-lb Delta with 100' of 1/4" HT chain and 300' of 1/2" nylon, the 
whole setup works well for me. I installed a Lewmar V700 windlass in the anchor 
locker to make life easier and it has worked just fine. 
http://members.shaw.ca/ptarmiganshift/images/IMG_0743.jpg.
I was carrying a 22-lb Lewmar Claw for backup, then another friend sold me a 
33-lb genuine Bruce which is my new backup. The design and construction details 
are vastly different on the Lewmar claw, the edges are blunt, the curvatures 
are very different, and the whole anchor is crudely made compared to the Bruce.
Steve (the Panope anchor guy) found that knockoff anchors are frequently 
useless. He couldn't get a Bruce copy to set, same results with a Danforth 
copy. I almost feel guilty selling the Claw knowing it is not a great anchor.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC




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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hopefully the inverter will come with very clear instructions on how to
handle ground and neutral.

For normal power, ie shore power, this is the US code:

"The National Electrical Code ( NEC ) requires the AC source to have a Neutral 
to ground bond
and that there be only one such bond in the entire AC system."

So only at the distribution panel is there a bond between neutral and ground. 
They should
never be connected together intentionally at the load. This document covers 
grounding and
bonding, may also cure insomnia.

https://www.engineereducators.com/docs/groundingandbonding2-2.pdf

Grounding an AC system is done to limit the effect of a lightning strike, maybe 
an upstream
over voltage fault. Bonding the green wire that comes in a three prong plug ( 
also called a
ground ) to Neutral at the distribution panel is to ensure a low resistance 
return path for
a fault. So if anything happens the desired effect is that a hot to ground 
short will occur
which in turn will cause an over current surge blowing the circuit breakers.

A person can be electrocuted even with a properly installed and grounded AC 
system
without the circuit breakers tripping.

Unless an inverter has some specific design that uses a ground bonding the 
Neutral and
ground together is not going to do much. Check out the last Q from Xantrex 
here:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/tech-doctor/universal/tech4-universal.pdf

Similarly with an inverter connected to a battery that is not grounded a GFCI 
should
never trip. Theoretically in a floating system the power has to come out of the 
Hot
lead and return in the Neutral. There will never be a ground fault to trip a 
GFCI.
There is no ground.

I suppose an inverter manufacturer could create a third connection back to the
power circuit Neutral that bypasses the GFCI. A short to that wire would cause
an imbalance and trip the GFCI. Then you would be connecting a floating
Neutral to the loads "ground" which may be exactly what the Xantrex article says
not to do.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 




From: Ron Ricci  

David, 
 
I've followed some of this thread and have a few concerns where some have 
mentioned using an inexpensive inverter.   
 
Using an inverter that is not intended for marine use or not properly 
grounded can cause problems.  An inverter can produce short duration spikes 
which exceed the insulation rating of most wires.  This becomes an issue in 
wet areas and will cause insulation failure.   
 
There are other issues relating to inducing corrosion.  A friend who 
coincidentally keeps his boat in RI and is the technical support guru for a 
company that sells variable frequency drives (inverters for AC motors) had 
to replace his propellers when he used an inverter he bought from Harbor 
Freight.  It was probably fine for anything other than marine use.  
 
If the neutral on the inverter is not grounded, the neutral can kill you 
regardless of the presence of a GFCI.   
 
Just my thoughts, 
 
Ron Ricci 
S/V Patriot 
C 37+ 
Bristol, RI 
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

A friend has done extensive anchor testing, if you don't watch any of his
other videos, watch this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0.
He picked the Spade as the best design for himself, partly because the roll
bar anchors didn't work well on his setup.

I use a 35-lb Delta with 100' of 1/4" HT chain and 300' of 1/2" nylon, the
whole setup works well for me. I installed a Lewmar V700 windlass in the
anchor locker to make life easier and it has worked just fine.
http://members.shaw.ca/ptarmiganshift/images/IMG_0743.jpg.
I was carrying a 22-lb Lewmar Claw for backup, then another friend sold me
a 33-lb genuine Bruce which is my new backup. The design and construction
details are vastly different on the Lewmar claw, the edges are blunt, the
curvatures are very different, and the whole anchor is crudely made
compared to the Bruce.

Steve (the Panope anchor guy) found that knockoff anchors are frequently
useless. He couldn't get a Bruce copy to set, same results with a Danforth
copy. I almost feel guilty selling the Claw knowing it is not a great
anchor.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC



>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I have a Rocna that recently got tested in a 50+ knot squall and was one of two 
boats in the anchorage that did not drag.  So I am a happy customer.  The only 
thing I am unhappy with is the roll bar.  I did not realize it when I bought 
it, but the anchor does not fit under the stanchions, so it is a real pain to 
do anything with once installed.  I had been thinking about putting it in the 
anchor locker while racing, but that turns out to be impossible.  Not a big 
deal, but might be for some.   Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT


> On Oct 24, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Over the past 7 years working at and now managing a municipal marina along 
> the ICW, I've gotten to know a lot of liveaboard cruising boaters. Most 
> liveaboard spend most of their time at anchor, so setting and holding has a 
> high priority. From what I have seen and heard from them, the order of 
> preference and frequency of use of their anchors appears to be:
> 
> Rocna
> Mantus (a less expensive Rocna)(One or the other of these two are 
> probably on 40-50% of the boats. And I'm starting to see the versions of the 
> Rocna (called a Vulcan) and Mantus anchors that do not have the "roll bar" 
> across the top, because these versions work well on most bow rollers.)
> Spade and Bruce (or a Bruce knockoff like the Simpson Lawrence Claw) - these 
> two are about even in frequency and are on maybe 25-30% of the boats
> Almost all of the other anchors I notice on cruising boats are some sort of 
> plow type anchor
> The cruisers who have a Danforth type anchor (including Fortress and 
> Guardian) aboard seem to view it as a lunch hook (or kedge anchor for getting 
> unstuck if aground) and not a primary anchor. (I will say that I got the idea 
> for carrying the Fortress FX23 I have aboard Imzadi for a lunch hook, and the 
> FX37 I carry as a 3rd storm anchor, from some cruising friends of mine. The 
> Fortress and Guardian anchors break down and store easily when not in use, 
> and they are light to schlep around the boat when you do use them.)
> 
> Danforth type anchors seem to be ubiquitous on smaller power boats (if they 
> have an anchor at all), and on sailboats and larger power boats that spend 
> their lives at marina docks.
> 
> Most of the cruisers seem to favor big anchors. The rule taught me many years 
> ago by an old USCG Mater Chief was 1 pound of anchor for every foot of boat 
> and at least 1 foot of chain for every foot of boat. Most of the cruisers 
> seem to follow that sort of norm, and I see a lot of even heavier anchors. A 
> 40' trawler in the marina right now has a 25kg Rocna as a primary anchor.
> 
> On another observation based on my experience: The anchorage area off the 
> marina in Washington is soft mud running from about 6 to 16 feet deep, with 
> reversing current in response to strong and/or changing winds. In 7 years the 
> only boat than has never dragged is a 34 Hunter that uses a 15kg Rocna and 
> 100 feet of chain (I asked). Virtually every boat that uses a Danforth has 
> been in the weeds at least once (one of them went into the Highway Bridge 3 
> times before the owner wised up).
> 
> Different anchors have different benefits. A Danforth is supposed to be good 
> in sand and suck if there is shell, gravel or weed, for example. So I don't 
> see that there is a WORST anchor. But my guess is that a Danforth is in the 
> running for the title of LEAST RELIABLE anchor because it gets flipped out if 
> your boat gets blown over the top of it by wind or current, and it doesn't 
> want to reset. But it makes an good lunch hook if you are on the boat and 
> awake.
> 
> 
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Christian 
> Tirtirau via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:53 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Christian Tirtirau 
> Subject: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll
> 
> I second Dave’s view on the 3rd generation anchors. CQR is in fact the worst 
> anchor ever made, that’s why they had to be heavily oversized to work. Delta 
> is a 2nd generation anchor, good but not great.
> For such a critical piece of equipment the choice should be one of the 3rd 
> gen anchors. Spade is the best anchor in the world, followed by Rocna and 
> Mantus.
> The Spade is also the most expensive anchor in the world, so for most sailors 
> it’s a toss between the next two in line.
> I have a Rocna 15 kg with 300 feet of 5/16 Acco chain and, consequently  I 
> spend most of my time tending other people’s anchors and boats rather than 
> mine. All that tackle is handled by me with the help of an electric Maxwell 
> windlass.
> 
> Chris
> C 37 Northern Light
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a 

Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

When I was shopping for a new main and roller reefing 135 genoa for Imzadi a 
couple of months ago, I was surprised and disappointed by the response from the 
lofts I contacted. Make that Lack of response.

 

I contacted a local sailmaker that I have used before, four lofts recommended 
by the list, plus Rolly Tasker (Dirk at National Sails in Brooksville, FLA) 
because they have been recommended so many times on the list. (I’ve been 
reluctant to use an offshore loft because of all the reasons expressed by other 
comments on the list.)

 

My local sailmaker gave me a quote. I got two others out of the 4 recommended 
lofts. The Doyle loft actually got back to me 3 or 4 weeks after I had called 
and emailed, and by then I had already ordered. The North loft never responded 
to multiple calls and emails. And I was doing my shopping in late July and 
early August, when I would think the demand for new sails by racers would be 
falling off and before the rush of “boat show” orders. 

 

The quotes from “onshore” lofts ranged from just over $6000 to just under 
$6200, with some variations in material and construction. Based on the 
responses I had to questions and discussion of things like cross cut vs. radial 
vs. bi-radial for the genoa and various alternatives in sail cloths (Everyone, 
BTW quoted some sort of Challenge Dacron.) The whole High Modulus, High Fiber 
Mass, High Aspect, Low aspect, etc. etc., etc. can get rather confusing. I 
would say that the Ullman quote was the best. They offered me the 15% “boat 
show” discount if I would take the genoa now and wait until spring for delivery 
of the new main – which brought the quote down to about $6100.

 

I ended up ordering from Rolly Tasker. The initial quote was so much lower that 
I was initially suspicious of it. I had a couple of conversations and email 
exchanges with Dirk about materials and construction before I placed the order. 
What I ended up with for the main is a cross cut “Offshore Cruising/Race” 
construction made from 8.8 oz. Challenge Marblehead cloth, loose foot, 5 full 
battens, draft stripes, sail number, C logo, 2 reefs with the second reef 
extra deep (as an alternative to a 3rd reef) for when I am actually offshore, 
and the sail is set up for my Tides Strong Track using the track slides and 
batten receptacles off my old main. The genoa is also a crosscut “Offshore 
Cruising/Race” construction using Challenge Marblehead in a 7 oz. High Aspect 
variety because most of my sailing is in lighter air, with a Sunbrella UV 
cover, draft stripes, tell tales, sail numbers, and trim strip on the clew to 
help with positioning of the genoa cars when the sail is reefed. 

 

The two sails cost under $5000, including shipping to me. They arrived last 
week (earlier than promised) and look really good. I’ve not flown them yet, but 
they seem to be everything I expected. So far I’m really pleased with the value 
and the service I got.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:07 AM
To: C Stus List 
Cc: Dave S 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update

 

Thanks John.   Brad L had also recommended them.  Funny thing - I sent them the 
request and no response, and they are not the only ones.  I sent a second 
request, we'll see what happens.   It is interesting to compare the response 
from the various lofts.   

 

Dave

 

 

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[Allen Miles via CnC-List]

If one were to upgrade to a 33# Vulcan (30 foot boat), what would be a
suitable windlass to retrieve it while fitting in the std C anchor locker?

Allen Miles
S/v Septima   30-2
Hampton, VA

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Over the past 7 years working at and now managing a municipal marina along
> the ICW, I've gotten to know a lot of liveaboard cruising boaters. Most
> liveaboard spend most of their time at anchor, so setting and holding has a
> high priority. From what I have seen and heard from them, the order of
> preference and frequency of use of their anchors appears to be:
>
> Rocna
> Mantus (a less expensive Rocna)(One or the other of these two are
> probably on 40-50% of the boats. And I'm starting to see the versions of
> the Rocna (called a Vulcan) and Mantus anchors that do not have the "roll
> bar" across the top, because these versions work well on most bow rollers.)
> Spade and Bruce (or a Bruce knockoff like the Simpson Lawrence Claw) -
> these two are about even in frequency and are on maybe 25-30% of the boats
> Almost all of the other anchors I notice on cruising boats are some sort
> of plow type anchor
> The cruisers who have a Danforth type anchor (including Fortress and
> Guardian) aboard seem to view it as a lunch hook (or kedge anchor for
> getting unstuck if aground) and not a primary anchor. (I will say that I
> got the idea for carrying the Fortress FX23 I have aboard Imzadi for a
> lunch hook, and the FX37 I carry as a 3rd storm anchor, from some cruising
> friends of mine. The Fortress and Guardian anchors break down and store
> easily when not in use, and they are light to schlep around the boat when
> you do use them.)
>
> Danforth type anchors seem to be ubiquitous on smaller power boats (if
> they have an anchor at all), and on sailboats and larger power boats that
> spend their lives at marina docks.
>
> Most of the cruisers seem to favor big anchors. The rule taught me many
> years ago by an old USCG Mater Chief was 1 pound of anchor for every foot
> of boat and at least 1 foot of chain for every foot of boat. Most of the
> cruisers seem to follow that sort of norm, and I see a lot of even heavier
> anchors. A 40' trawler in the marina right now has a 25kg Rocna as a
> primary anchor.
>
> On another observation based on my experience: The anchorage area off the
> marina in Washington is soft mud running from about 6 to 16 feet deep, with
> reversing current in response to strong and/or changing winds. In 7 years
> the only boat than has never dragged is a 34 Hunter that uses a 15kg Rocna
> and 100 feet of chain (I asked). Virtually every boat that uses a Danforth
> has been in the weeds at least once (one of them went into the Highway
> Bridge 3 times before the owner wised up).
>
> Different anchors have different benefits. A Danforth is supposed to be
> good in sand and suck if there is shell, gravel or weed, for example. So I
> don't see that there is a WORST anchor. But my guess is that a Danforth is
> in the running for the title of LEAST RELIABLE anchor because it gets
> flipped out if your boat gets blown over the top of it by wind or current,
> and it doesn't want to reset. But it makes an good lunch hook if you are on
> the boat and awake.
>
>
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Christian Tirtirau via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:53 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Christian Tirtirau 
> Subject: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll
>
> I second Dave’s view on the 3rd generation anchors. CQR is in fact the
> worst anchor ever made, that’s why they had to be heavily oversized to
> work. Delta is a 2nd generation anchor, good but not great.
> For such a critical piece of equipment the choice should be one of the 3rd
> gen anchors. Spade is the best anchor in the world, followed by Rocna and
> Mantus.
> The Spade is also the most expensive anchor in the world, so for most
> sailors it’s a toss between the next two in line.
> I have a Rocna 15 kg with 300 feet of 5/16 Acco chain and, consequently  I
> spend most of my time tending other people’s anchors and boats rather than
> mine. All that tackle is handled by me with the help of an electric Maxwell
> windlass.
>
> Chris
> C 37 Northern Light
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>

Re: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Over the past 7 years working at and now managing a municipal marina along the 
ICW, I've gotten to know a lot of liveaboard cruising boaters. Most liveaboard 
spend most of their time at anchor, so setting and holding has a high priority. 
From what I have seen and heard from them, the order of preference and 
frequency of use of their anchors appears to be:

Rocna
Mantus (a less expensive Rocna)(One or the other of these two are probably 
on 40-50% of the boats. And I'm starting to see the versions of the Rocna 
(called a Vulcan) and Mantus anchors that do not have the "roll bar" across the 
top, because these versions work well on most bow rollers.)
Spade and Bruce (or a Bruce knockoff like the Simpson Lawrence Claw) - these 
two are about even in frequency and are on maybe 25-30% of the boats
Almost all of the other anchors I notice on cruising boats are some sort of 
plow type anchor
The cruisers who have a Danforth type anchor (including Fortress and Guardian) 
aboard seem to view it as a lunch hook (or kedge anchor for getting unstuck if 
aground) and not a primary anchor. (I will say that I got the idea for carrying 
the Fortress FX23 I have aboard Imzadi for a lunch hook, and the FX37 I carry 
as a 3rd storm anchor, from some cruising friends of mine. The Fortress and 
Guardian anchors break down and store easily when not in use, and they are 
light to schlep around the boat when you do use them.)

Danforth type anchors seem to be ubiquitous on smaller power boats (if they 
have an anchor at all), and on sailboats and larger power boats that spend 
their lives at marina docks.

Most of the cruisers seem to favor big anchors. The rule taught me many years 
ago by an old USCG Mater Chief was 1 pound of anchor for every foot of boat and 
at least 1 foot of chain for every foot of boat. Most of the cruisers seem to 
follow that sort of norm, and I see a lot of even heavier anchors. A 40' 
trawler in the marina right now has a 25kg Rocna as a primary anchor.

On another observation based on my experience: The anchorage area off the 
marina in Washington is soft mud running from about 6 to 16 feet deep, with 
reversing current in response to strong and/or changing winds. In 7 years the 
only boat than has never dragged is a 34 Hunter that uses a 15kg Rocna and 100 
feet of chain (I asked). Virtually every boat that uses a Danforth has been in 
the weeds at least once (one of them went into the Highway Bridge 3 times 
before the owner wised up).

Different anchors have different benefits. A Danforth is supposed to be good in 
sand and suck if there is shell, gravel or weed, for example. So I don't see 
that there is a WORST anchor. But my guess is that a Danforth is in the running 
for the title of LEAST RELIABLE anchor because it gets flipped out if your boat 
gets blown over the top of it by wind or current, and it doesn't want to reset. 
But it makes an good lunch hook if you are on the boat and awake.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Christian 
Tirtirau via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Christian Tirtirau 
Subject: Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

I second Dave’s view on the 3rd generation anchors. CQR is in fact the worst 
anchor ever made, that’s why they had to be heavily oversized to work. Delta is 
a 2nd generation anchor, good but not great.
For such a critical piece of equipment the choice should be one of the 3rd gen 
anchors. Spade is the best anchor in the world, followed by Rocna and Mantus.
The Spade is also the most expensive anchor in the world, so for most sailors 
it’s a toss between the next two in line.
I have a Rocna 15 kg with 300 feet of 5/16 Acco chain and, consequently  I 
spend most of my time tending other people’s anchors and boats rather than 
mine. All that tackle is handled by me with the help of an electric Maxwell 
windlass.

Chris
C 37 Northern Light
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have a West Marine 1000 Watt inverter that I wired to a few outlets with no 
apparent ill effects. I use a shore power sensing relay I got from West to 
switch them between inverter and shore power. I used a GFCI outlet and it works 
when I test it. I have not tested a neutral>ground leak, maybe I should? The 
relay switches both hot and neutral wires and the green wire stays common.
So far the biggest shock danger I have found with inverters is people assuming 
the shore power cord being disconnected = no AC power anywhere.
(http://www.westmarine.com/buy/kisae-technology--ac-transfer-switches--P014159982?recordNum=18)

Joe
Coquina


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ron Ricci 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 09:20
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ron Ricci 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

David,

I've followed some of this thread and have a few concerns where some have
mentioned using an inexpensive inverter.  

Using an inverter that is not intended for marine use or not properly
grounded can cause problems.  An inverter can produce short duration spikes
which exceed the insulation rating of most wires.  This becomes an issue in
wet areas and will cause insulation failure.  

There are other issues relating to inducing corrosion.  A friend who
coincidentally keeps his boat in RI and is the technical support guru for a
company that sells variable frequency drives (inverters for AC motors) had
to replace his propellers when he used an inverter he bought from Harbor
Freight.  It was probably fine for anything other than marine use. 

If the neutral on the inverter is not grounded, the neutral can kill you
regardless of the presence of a GFCI.  

Just my thoughts,

Ron Ricci
S/V Patriot
C 37+
Bristol, RI



 

 David via CnC-List  wrote: 
We have minimal inverter needs and would like to wire the 1000w inverter
directly to a dedicated outlet.  It does not have power outputs but two
receptacles for plugs.


I believe I can wire an extension cord to a outlet (assuming adequately
rated and quality components), but I would like to know of any pitfalls that
others may have found.


Thanks in advance.


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[Ron Ricci via CnC-List]

David,

I've followed some of this thread and have a few concerns where some have
mentioned using an inexpensive inverter.  

Using an inverter that is not intended for marine use or not properly
grounded can cause problems.  An inverter can produce short duration spikes
which exceed the insulation rating of most wires.  This becomes an issue in
wet areas and will cause insulation failure.  

There are other issues relating to inducing corrosion.  A friend who
coincidentally keeps his boat in RI and is the technical support guru for a
company that sells variable frequency drives (inverters for AC motors) had
to replace his propellers when he used an inverter he bought from Harbor
Freight.  It was probably fine for anything other than marine use. 

If the neutral on the inverter is not grounded, the neutral can kill you
regardless of the presence of a GFCI.  

Just my thoughts,

Ron Ricci
S/V Patriot
C 37+
Bristol, RI



 

 David via CnC-List  wrote: 
We have minimal inverter needs and would like to wire the 1000w inverter
directly to a dedicated outlet.  It does not have power outputs but two
receptacles for plugs.


I believe I can wire an extension cord to a outlet (assuming adequately
rated and quality components), but I would like to know of any pitfalls that
others may have found.


Thanks in advance.


David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



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Re: Stus-List re Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

[David via CnC-List]

Derek,

I went online to determine if that was possible. Nuthin'.

 Thank you very much for that information.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Tortuga via CnC-List 
Date: 10/23/16 20:37 (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tortuga 
Subject: Stus-List re Inverter to Outlet Via Extension Cord?

The Xantrex Freedom 1000W inverter/charger has provision to remove the GFCI 
duplex outlet from the front panel and hardwire the unit to an existing AC 
circuit, using the GFCI as the first outlet in the circuit.

Derek Kennedy
SV Tortuga, 30 mk1
Ballantyne's Cove, NS
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Re: Stus-List Slip Choice, backing in

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

As Rob knows I back in all the time as my preferred method of docking.  On the 
frers 33 the shaft I  centered and the prop is RH so there is some prop walk to 
port in reverse but it is not pronounced.  The biggest issues are visibility 
and the lack of bite of the prop when shifting from forward to reverse.  If I 
am travelling at three knots forward and then shift to reverse it takes well 
over 30 seconds for the boat to slow to a stop and then start moving backward.  
Meanwhile the bow will blow all over the place.  This makes coming in bow first 
to a slip a bit problematic if moving at any speed since reverse really dow not 
put on the brakes for me.  The prop is a Martec elliptical folding prop.  The 
problem with visibility is that these older designs tend to have a very beamy 
boat midships and much narrower transom.  This makes helmsman lose sight of 
dock edge as we get close.  On top of that if sailing with a crew they are very 
hard to see through.  Like many others here I put the boat in reverse at the 
end of the marina system and then back the entire way in to my slip.  I will 
also be at idle and go in and out of reverse as we get close.  I stand to the 
side of the wheel and drive it just like a car which has the turning wheels on 
the front.  Once the boat is in place a very short burst of fwd stops the boat. 
 It is simple and very easy.  Most problems with docking are after the boat is 
lying right alongside when someone pulls the bow in too soon or too late etc 
... but that is minor

One question that I have been wondering is how much difference would a geared 
prop make for initial bite in reverse.  Someone mentioned that it was very good 
with a Gori but I would think that not much difference than a Martec.

Mike
Persistence.  Done for the season
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 10:10 PM
To: 1 CnC List; Chuck S
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Slip Choice, backing in

Chuck:

I agree with you.backing in does provide more control, especially for the 
bow.   I have done this a few times over the past month or so as I have had to 
move my boat from one slip to another and I chose to back in so I did not have 
to change my lines and fenders from one side to the other.it was far less 
stressful than I had thought.

It makes leaving the slip a lot easier as well.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

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Stus-List Choosing an anchor for a C 35 mkll

[Christian Tirtirau via CnC-List]

I second Dave’s view on the 3rd generation anchors. CQR is in fact the worst 
anchor ever made, that’s why they had to be heavily oversized to work. Delta is 
a 2nd generation anchor, good but not great.
For such a critical piece of equipment the choice should be one of the 3rd gen 
anchors. Spade is the best anchor in the world, followed by Rocna and Mantus.
The Spade is also the most expensive anchor in the world, so for most sailors 
it’s a toss between the next two in line.
I have a Rocna 15 kg with 300 feet of 5/16 Acco chain and, consequently  I 
spend most of my time tending other people’s anchors and boats rather than 
mine. All that tackle is handled by me with the help of an electric Maxwell 
windlass.

Chris
C 37 Northern Light
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Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dave,

don't forget the C logo!

Joel

On Monday, October 24, 2016, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks John.   Brad L had also recommended them.  Funny thing - I sent
> them the request and no response, and they are not the only ones.  I sent a
> second request, we'll see what happens.   It is interesting to compare the
> response from the various lofts.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 02:06:30 + (UTC)
> From: John McKay  >
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> " <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update
> Message-ID: <1799377969.884253.1477274790...@mail.yahoo.com
> 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I got a new main and genoa in the fall of 2015 from Boston Sails in Point
> Edward.?
> I am very pleased with them
> John on Enterprise
>
>
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:06 PM, Dave S via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>
>  in case anyone is interested (I know two fellow owners are looking for
> new mains) here is an update on my mainsail progress, along with some 33-2
> dimensional info. ?
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/10/mainsail-specificatio
> n-rig-photos.html
>
> I also updated and earlier post with some ?guidance from two sail lofts.
>
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/10/mainsail-beyond-expired.html
>
> Am expecting two more quotes and will post conclusions later. ?
>
> Almost done.
> Dave
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List 33-2 rig inspection - what the heck are these bits used for? Cunningham.

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Thanks gentlemen.   Brad - I take it that the mechanical advantage from
this simple cunning-ham arrangement is satisfactory for you?
Unsurprisingly, the sail hardware catalogs imply that a fancy multipart
tackle is appropriate, even on a dinghy.

Dave


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 03:17:30 +
From: Bradley Lumgair 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List  33-2 mainsail replacement - update
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dave
My 33-2 has the same bracket on the mast. My Cunningham is knotted at the
first fairlead, runs up through the cringle in the main and back down
through the other fairlead, through a change of direction and back  through
one of the clutches. Should give you a rough 2 to 1 mechanical advantage on
the Cunningham line. I do not have the cleat on the bottom of the boom.
Brad
"Pulse" 1985 C 33-2
Lake Huron


--

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 21:46:25 -0700
From: Russ & Melody 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 rig inspection - what the heck are these
bits used for?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Hi Dave,

The fittings below the gooseneck look like excellent candidates for
cunning-ham (spelling check mod, kinda cute) leads.

The cleat below the boom was likely for outhaul or cheezy lazy-jacks gear.

 Cheers, Russ
 Sweet 35 mk-1



At 09:39 AM 23/10/2016, you wrote:
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Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Thanks John.   Brad L had also recommended them.  Funny thing - I sent them
the request and no response, and they are not the only ones.  I sent a
second request, we'll see what happens.   It is interesting to compare the
response from the various lofts.

Dave





Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 02:06:30 + (UTC)
From: John McKay 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 mainsail replacement - update
Message-ID: <1799377969.884253.1477274790...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I got a new main and genoa in the fall of 2015 from Boston Sails in Point
Edward.?
I am very pleased with them
John on Enterprise


On Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:06 PM, Dave S via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


 in case anyone is interested (I know two fellow owners are looking for new
mains) here is an update on my mainsail progress, along with some 33-2
dimensional info. ?
http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/10/mainsail-
specification-rig-photos.html

I also updated and earlier post with some ?guidance from two sail lofts.

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/10/mainsail-beyond-expired.html

Am expecting two more quotes and will post conclusions later. ?

Almost done.
Dave
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