Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Alan,

Epoxy and glass is a bit different than G10 (which is technically
fiberglass and epoxy.)  The rated compression and deflection strength are
competitive with any other material.  Especially when you get to the 1/2
inch thickness.

No?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 18:35 ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Don't use epoxy/glass to replace the wedges. There's tremendous pressure
> on them when the keep bolts are tightened, and they won't hold up. Have
> them made out of stainless.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> Plenty of detail on keel work here- mine and others.
>>
>>
>> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/c-33-mk-ii-keel-and-mast-step-work.html?m=1
>> 
>>
>> I think any sense epoxy/glass would be fine to replace the wedges.
>>
>> You can also use ‘tack tape’ reversed to protect the bolts.  One
>> advantage of this vs  wax is you can build layers for clearance.
>>
>> Good luck with the project!
>>
>> Dave
>> 33-2 (same dna as the 35-3)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:10 PM, David Swensen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Fellow listers,
>> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull
>> joint. She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull
>> joint and have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still
>> draining ( and it smells?).
>> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge
>> pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the
>> washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
>> I have added a link to some pictures.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6
>> 
>>
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how
>> to repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was
>> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
>>
>> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It
>> feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is
>> still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?
>>
>> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of
>> the angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much
>> left of the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them
>> fabricated from stainless steel?.
>>
>> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to
>> input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended
>> time?
>>
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>> David Swensen
>> Freya   35 MK 3
>> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!9-CDindOcxAQN2R4qFnUPdZ3BJMEv42YRT5k_1ajVsg1sQAYGHOmVyV9bid3sMbbqTc$
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

Don't use epoxy/glass to replace the wedges. There's tremendous pressure on
them when the keep bolts are tightened, and they won't hold up. Have them
made out of stainless.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Plenty of detail on keel work here- mine and others.
>
>
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/c-33-mk-ii-keel-and-mast-step-work.html?m=1
> 
>
> I think any sense epoxy/glass would be fine to replace the wedges.
>
> You can also use ‘tack tape’ reversed to protect the bolts.  One advantage
> of this vs  wax is you can build layers for clearance.
>
> Good luck with the project!
>
> Dave
> 33-2 (same dna as the 35-3)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:10 PM, David Swensen 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Fellow listers,
> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint.
> She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and
> have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining (
> and it smells?).
> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge
> pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the
> washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
> I have added a link to some pictures.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6
> 
>
>
> My questions:
>
> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to
> repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was
> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
>
> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It
> feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is
> still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?
>
> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of
> the angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much
> left of the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them
> fabricated from stainless steel?.
>
> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to
> input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended
> time?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> David Swensen
> Freya   35 MK 3
> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!9-CDindOcxAQN2R4qFnUPdZ3BJMEv42YRT5k_1ajVsg1sQAYGHOmVyV9bid3sMbbqTc$
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Overheating yanmar 3gm30

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I have no idea.  I use the orange stuff.
  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 3:30 PM Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis, is that any better than the ethylene gylcol standard, or the same
> but more environmentally friendly?
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>
> On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 02:56:18 PM CDT, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> *OAT* coolant is pink.  OAT is an acronym for Organic Acid (Additive)
> Technology which describes the type of materials responsible for the
> corrosion protection offered by a *coolant* of this type.  It's still a
> marine and automotive coolant.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Hi David,

I'm still working on the rebuild of the mast step on our 33-2, which has a lot 
of similarities with your boat. The grid that support the mast is a bit 
different and your hull is balsa core, but overall, it is a C of the same era.
I don't want to be alarmist, but a friend with a 35-3 found that previous 
grounding and years of hard racing led to a wet sagging mast step, a wet and 
compressed aft bolt area (also filled with light degraded putty, and that the 
balsa core surrounding the keel area was also wet...Like you at some point his 
boat was taking a lot of water and he had to haul it out in a hurry. Scary 
story. A yard did the repair and it was over 10k$.

I would strongly suggest that you look at Dave Syer blog that is also active on 
this list : cncwindstar.blogspot.com

Look fot the page on Keel and mast step work. It has a lot of good info and the 
repair process is fairly detailed. But i will do my best to explain what i have 
done with my imperfect English...

I have pretty much copy what Dave has done to his boat, i opened the mast step 
to excavate the pink/moldy putty that was moist / wet and had fractured. the 
adhesion with the FG skin of the keel sump was compromised and the mast step 
had sagged over time. The PO had added glass and put an aluminum plate/spacer 
to jack the mast to its original height, but it was not fixing the structural 
issue.
I then built a compression post for the forward bolt,  like Dave did, and 
filled the space with about 16 gallons of ISO polyester resin (used mold 
released paste wax on the the 2nd keel bolt)  a lot of chop glass, milled glass 
fiber of different sizes, cabosil... And again,  like Dave, i reinforced the 
structure with UD 9 oz Carbon laminated with epoxy resin. Note that pourring 
large volume of resin generates tes a lot of heat and can be dangerous. i tried 
to do the pours between 5 and 10 Celsius. mthe resin allowed me to do it step 
by step and i had like 4-6 days between pours without having to prep the 
surface. sometimes i had what i think are heat generated or stress relief 
smalls cracks near the exterior perimeter. I filled them with lightly thicked 
or neat resin before i poured my next batch. Some have suggested other stuff 
like concrete but i wanted to stick with poly resin to keep  the overall weith 
close to the design.

I also had corroded aluminum backing plates in the sump that i replaced with 
1/2 inch stainless steel. I also used G-10 as backing plate and in my amateur 
opinion 1/2 inch G10 bedded in thicked époxy with waxed paper to have a flat 
solid foundation, then remove, clean and seal with high grade butyl.  That with 
a good SS washer should be plenty strong.

In the end, i am more than happy to have remove all the crappy wet and smelly 
putty that was there and that was not properly sealed from factory. Water from 
the mast found its way and up here the freezing cycles dit the rest. i am now 
confident that my boat is  way more solid and it was worht it since we want to 
keep this boat and sail it for many years to come. we know have a the new boat 
smell of fresh resin, no more rotten materials on my boat!

I want to thank Dave Syer that was a huge technical and sometimes even my 
emotional support trough this projetc.

Hope that helps, best of luck.

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, 1987 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc








De : CnC-List  de la part de David Swensen via 
CnC-List 
Envoyé : 27 août 2020 14:10
À : cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc : David Swensen 
Objet : Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3



Fellow listers,
I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint. She 
has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and have 
raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining ( and it 
smells?).
The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge pump 
every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the washers on 
this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
I have added a link to some pictures.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6

My questions:

I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to 
repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was planning 
on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.

It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It feels 
and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is still 
draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?

Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of the 
angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much left of 
the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them fabricated 
from stainless steel?.

One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to input 
on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an 

Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Dave S via CnC-List]

I had no voids and I did not separate the hull and keel, but this would have 
made excavating the filled part much easier, in addition to being able to 
address the keel to hull joint.  
I would reassemble prior to adding any compression posts and refilling the keel 
void of course.  Wrap the joint at the end after torquing. 
Dave 
33-2 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, ALAN BERGEN  wrote:
> 
> 
> You should separate the boat from the keel. When I had mine done, there was a 
> huge void around the forward keel bolt. The yard hosed out the hole from 
> underneath, and it smelled really bad. Then they ground the stub and the top 
> of the keel, epoxied the keel back onto the stub and filled the void with 
> about a gallon of epoxy. I don't know what order they did that. Then they 
> epoxied fiberglass tape along the smile, and sanded everything smooth.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:11 AM David Swensen via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Fellow listers,
>> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint. 
>> She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and 
>> have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining ( 
>> and it smells?). 
>> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge 
>> pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the 
>> washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
>> I have added a link to some pictures.
>> 
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6   
>> 
>> My questions:
>> 
>> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to 
>> repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was 
>> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
>> 
>> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It 
>> feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is 
>> still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space? 
>> 
>> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of the 
>> angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much left of 
>> the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them fabricated 
>> from stainless steel?.
>> 
>> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to 
>> input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended 
>> time?
>> 
>> Thanks for any input. 
>> 
>> David Swensen
>> Freya   35 MK 3
>> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4PXYDybgwgnbNJIhjiau6p3jzZRJvAMYtyISqSI8b-QWjwrC2Gj-l8Yrag8pbSGhbyU$
>>  
>> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Plenty of detail on keel work here- mine and others.  

https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/c-33-mk-ii-keel-and-mast-step-work.html?m=1

I think any sense epoxy/glass would be fine to replace the wedges.  

You can also use ‘tack tape’ reversed to protect the bolts.  One advantage of 
this vs  wax is you can build layers for clearance.  

Good luck with the project!

Dave 
33-2 (same dna as the 35-3)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:10 PM, David Swensen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fellow listers,
> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint. 
> She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and 
> have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining ( and 
> it smells?). 
> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge pump 
> every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the washers on 
> this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
> I have added a link to some pictures.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6   
> 
> My questions:
> 
> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to 
> repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was 
> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
> 
> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It feels 
> and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is still 
> draining.  What is the best material to fill this space? 
> 
> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of the 
> angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much left of 
> the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them fabricated 
> from stainless steel?.
> 
> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to input 
> on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended time?
> 
> Thanks for any input. 
> 
> David Swensen
> Freya   35 MK 3
> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Overheating yanmar 3gm30

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Better?  Maybe/maybe not.
http://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-is-hoat-coolant-4-things-you-need-to-know/

Ethylene glycol isn't actually bad for the environment.  It readily breaks
down and degrades.  It's just toxic to aminals should they ingest it.  On
the other hand, many other coolants may not be toxic to animals but they
don't biodegrade.  Propylene glycol is one of them IIRC.  I had been the
type to try for the latest and greatest products but when I learned that
ethylene glyco is arguably less impactful to the environment I switched
back.  It's more common and cheaper too.

"Ethylene glycol does not persist in large amounts in ambient air because
breakdown is rapid (half-life in air is 8-84 hours). In environmental
exposure situations, its low vapor pressure precludes substantial
inhalation exposure at ambient temperatures, and its poor skin absorption
prevents significant absorption after dermal contact. Ethylene glycol is
miscible with water and will leach through soil to groundwater. It
biodegrades rapidly in soil (half-life, 2-12 days). The half-life ranges
from 2-12 days in surface water and 4- 24 days in ground water. Because it
is not fat soluble and biodegrades rapidly, bioconcentration and
bioaccumulation are insignificant (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
Registry 1997"

Do your own research by Google searching or pulling the SDS on your coolant
of choice.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 16:30 Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis, is that any better than the ethylene gylcol standard, or the same
> but more environmentally friendly?
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>
> On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 02:56:18 PM CDT, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> *OAT* coolant is pink.  OAT is an acronym for Organic Acid (Additive)
> Technology which describes the type of materials responsible for the
> corrosion protection offered by a *coolant* of this type.  It's still a
> marine and automotive coolant.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Overheating yanmar 3gm30

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Dennis, is that any better than the ethylene gylcol standard, or the same but 
more environmentally friendly?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL

 On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 02:56:18 PM CDT, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 OAT coolant is pink.  OAT is an acronym for Organic Acid (Additive) Technology 
which describes the type of materials responsible for the corrosion protection 
offered by a coolant of this type.  It's still a marine and automotive coolant.
-- 
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, 
LA___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  ___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Transmission problem??

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Some symptoms that I experienced before my recent transmission repair were:
(1) a significant delay in shifting into forward (5 to 10 minutes), and
(2) transmission fluid leakage from the shaft seals.

I’m sure there are other symptoms that I did not experience myself.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in the Bahamas, summers in Baltimore, and somewhere on the 
ICW in between)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:28 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> We returned from our brief cruise yesterday and had no problems motoring.  I 
> just finished a discussion with PYI to see whether the Maxprop could be the 
> cause of the vibration and they said the symptoms are consistent with the 
> Maxprop needing to be reconditioned.  They said that if there is too much 
> wiggle in the blades, when subjected to loading and unloading in waves, the 
> blades can catch in slightly different places and that leads to vibration.  
> Going to reverse and then back to forward would reset the blade position.  He 
> said I can test by seeing how much wiggle there is in the blades when locked 
> in forward. It should be less than 1/8”.  More than 3/16” is a problem.  I 
> may try to dive under to see, but likely will wait until haul in Fall.  So I 
> think that is the likely cause of our vibration issue.
>  I am still unsure what the symptoms of a transmission needing rebuilding 
> would be.  If anyone can speak to symptoms of that problem, I would 
> appreciate it as I suspect they are different.
> 
> I should also note that I have always had a problem with the engine stalling 
> when I shift into reverse.  I don’t know what is causing that (PYI did not 
> think it related to the prop) so if anyone has ideas I would love to hear 
> them.  It is always nerve racking coming into a dock and worrying that I will 
> not be able to slow down. 
> 
> As to shift lever- it looks to me like the shifter is designed to be able to 
> attach in either orientation.  I think that in order to match normal Edson 
> lever movement (down = forward) they had to put it on pointing down.  In 
> order for that to work, they had to grind out some of the stringer.  I 
> realize in retrospect that there is no way shifting could have worn that away 
> as you would not have been able to shift at all until it wore down some and 
> that would make no sense.  But both my wife and I think that up is more 
> natural for forward gear, so I am happy with the change. 
> 
> 
> Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Overheating yanmar 3gm30

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

*OAT* coolant is pink.  OAT is an acronym for Organic Acid (Additive)
Technology which describes the type of materials responsible for the
corrosion protection offered by a *coolant* of this type.  It's still a
marine and automotive coolant.
-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Transmission problem??

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I haven't been following this thread, but I might add that a loose prop can
lead to a worn cutless bearing which can lead to a scored shaft.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:27 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We returned from our brief cruise yesterday and had no problems motoring.
> I just finished a discussion with PYI to see whether the Maxprop could be
> the cause of the vibration and they said the symptoms are consistent with
> the Maxprop needing to be reconditioned.  They said that if there is too
> much wiggle in the blades, when subjected to loading and unloading in
> waves, the blades can catch in slightly different places and that leads to
> vibration.  Going to reverse and then back to forward would reset the blade
> position.  He said I can test by seeing how much wiggle there is in the
> blades when locked in forward. It should be less than 1/8”.  More than
> 3/16” is a problem.  I may try to dive under to see, but likely will wait
> until haul in Fall.  So I think that is the likely cause of our vibration
> issue.
>  I am still unsure what the symptoms of a transmission needing rebuilding
> would be.  If anyone can speak to symptoms of that problem, I would
> appreciate it as I suspect they are different.
>
> I should also note that I have always had a problem with the engine
> stalling when I shift into reverse.  I don’t know what is causing that (PYI
> did not think it related to the prop) so if anyone has ideas I would love
> to hear them.  It is always nerve racking coming into a dock and worrying
> that I will not be able to slow down.
>
> As to shift lever- it looks to me like the shifter is designed to be able
> to attach in either orientation.  I think that in order to match normal
> Edson lever movement (down = forward) they had to put it on pointing down.
> In order for that to work, they had to grind out some of the stringer.  I
> realize in retrospect that there is no way shifting could have worn that
> away as you would not have been able to shift at all until it wore down
> some and that would make no sense.  But both my wife and I think that up is
> more natural for forward gear, so I am happy with the change.
>
>
> Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!_cwu2IZ62KVSetW0HkRr1Td6TiPW__YcsiasCf7U7eUBiMlERrpnUnHJ3_mOZUSx0Eg$
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

You should separate the boat from the keel. When I had mine done, there was
a huge void around the forward keel bolt. The yard hosed out the hole from
underneath, and it smelled really bad. Then they ground the stub and the
top of the keel, epoxied the keel back onto the stub and filled the void
with about a gallon of epoxy. I don't know what order they did that. Then
they epoxied fiberglass tape along the smile, and sanded everything smooth.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:11 AM David Swensen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
> Fellow listers,
> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint.
> She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and
> have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining (
> and it smells?).
> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge
> pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the
> washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
> I have added a link to some pictures.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6
> 
>
>
> My questions:
>
> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to
> repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was
> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
>
> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It
> feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is
> still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?
>
> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of
> the angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much
> left of the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them
> fabricated from stainless steel?.
>
> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to
> input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended
> time?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> David Swensen
> Freya   35 MK 3
> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4PXYDybgwgnbNJIhjiau6p3jzZRJvAMYtyISqSI8b-QWjwrC2Gj-l8Yrag8pbSGhbyU$
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Transmission problem??

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Just had my prop rebuilt.  Plan on about 4 weeks turnaround time from
removal to install.

Josh

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 14:27 David Knecht via CnC-List 
wrote:

> We returned from our brief cruise yesterday and had no problems motoring.
> I just finished a discussion with PYI to see whether the Maxprop could be
> the cause of the vibration and they said the symptoms are consistent with
> the Maxprop needing to be reconditioned.  They said that if there is too
> much wiggle in the blades, when subjected to loading and unloading in
> waves, the blades can catch in slightly different places and that leads to
> vibration.  Going to reverse and then back to forward would reset the blade
> position.  He said I can test by seeing how much wiggle there is in the
> blades when locked in forward. It should be less than 1/8”.  More than
> 3/16” is a problem.  I may try to dive under to see, but likely will wait
> until haul in Fall.  So I think that is the likely cause of our vibration
> issue.
>  I am still unsure what the symptoms of a transmission needing rebuilding
> would be.  If anyone can speak to symptoms of that problem, I would
> appreciate it as I suspect they are different.
>
> I should also note that I have always had a problem with the engine
> stalling when I shift into reverse.  I don’t know what is causing that (PYI
> did not think it related to the prop) so if anyone has ideas I would love
> to hear them.  It is always nerve racking coming into a dock and worrying
> that I will not be able to slow down.
>
> As to shift lever- it looks to me like the shifter is designed to be able
> to attach in either orientation.  I think that in order to match normal
> Edson lever movement (down = forward) they had to put it on pointing down.
> In order for that to work, they had to grind out some of the stringer.  I
> realize in retrospect that there is no way shifting could have worn that
> away as you would not have been able to shift at all until it wore down
> some and that would make no sense.  But both my wife and I think that up is
> more natural for forward gear, so I am happy with the change.
>
>
> Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Transmission problem??

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

We returned from our brief cruise yesterday and had no problems motoring.  I 
just finished a discussion with PYI to see whether the Maxprop could be the 
cause of the vibration and they said the symptoms are consistent with the 
Maxprop needing to be reconditioned.  They said that if there is too much 
wiggle in the blades, when subjected to loading and unloading in waves, the 
blades can catch in slightly different places and that leads to vibration.  
Going to reverse and then back to forward would reset the blade position.  He 
said I can test by seeing how much wiggle there is in the blades when locked in 
forward. It should be less than 1/8”.  More than 3/16” is a problem.  I may try 
to dive under to see, but likely will wait until haul in Fall.  So I think that 
is the likely cause of our vibration issue.
 I am still unsure what the symptoms of a transmission needing rebuilding would 
be.  If anyone can speak to symptoms of that problem, I would appreciate it as 
I suspect they are different.

I should also note that I have always had a problem with the engine stalling 
when I shift into reverse.  I don’t know what is causing that (PYI did not 
think it related to the prop) so if anyone has ideas I would love to hear them. 
 It is always nerve racking coming into a dock and worrying that I will not be 
able to slow down. 

As to shift lever- it looks to me like the shifter is designed to be able to 
attach in either orientation.  I think that in order to match normal Edson 
lever movement (down = forward) they had to put it on pointing down.  In order 
for that to work, they had to grind out some of the stringer.  I realize in 
retrospect that there is no way shifting could have worn that away as you would 
not have been able to shift at all until it wore down some and that would make 
no sense.  But both my wife and I think that up is more natural for forward 
gear, so I am happy with the change. 


Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Overheating yanmar 3gm30

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 It was mentioned earlier, but bears repeating. Like the previous poster, I 
thought the pink stuff was for winterizing, not for engine coolant. I believe 
the pink stuff uses propylene glycol which is safe for drinking water systems.
I thought the gold standard for engine coolant is still ethylene glycol.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL
  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Or paste wax

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:18 PM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Try Vaseline on the bolt
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
>
> *On Behalf Of *David Swensen via CnC-List
>
>
> *Sent:* August 27, 2020 3:11 PM
>
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
>
> *Cc:* David Swensen 
>
>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint.
> She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and
> have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining (
> and it smells?).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge
> pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the
> washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have added a link to some pictures.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My questions:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to
> repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was
> planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It
> feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is
> still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of
> the angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much
> left of the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them
> fabricated from stainless
>
> steel?.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to
> input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended
> time?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David Swensen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Freya   35 MK 3
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On the Hard in Beverly, MA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> --
Joel
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Try Vaseline on the bolt

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of David Swensen via 
CnC-List
Sent: August 27, 2020 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David Swensen 
Subject: Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3



Fellow listers,
I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint. She 
has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and have 
raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining ( and it 
smells?).
The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge pump 
every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the washers on 
this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
I have added a link to some pictures.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6

My questions:

I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to 
repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was planning 
on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.

It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It feels 
and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is still 
draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?

Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of the 
angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much left of 
the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them fabricated 
from stainless steel?.

One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to input 
on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended time?

Thanks for any input.

David Swensen
Freya   35 MK 3
On the Hard in Beverly, MA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Freya Keel work 35-3

[David Swensen via CnC-List]

Fellow listers,
I have moved Freya to my backyard and started work on the keel hull joint.
She has on the hard for about 4 weeks. I opened up thekeel hull joint and
have raised the hull a few inches.   The forward bolt is still draining (
and it smells?).
The most aft bolt is the one that was leaking enough to set off my bilge
pump every 4 minutes. The inside of the hull was compressed under the
washers on this bolt. I think this will need to be ground out and filled
I have added a link to some pictures.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uoZHWJbR2jH8Wb6F6

My questions:

I cannot lift the hull entirely off of the keel. Any suggestions on how to
repair the compressed area without epoxy bonding to the  bolt?  I was
planning on a 1/2 inch G10 backing plate before putting  the washers on.

It looks like I will need to excavate the space under the mast step. It
feels and sounds solid, but apparently there is water inside, because it is
still draining.  What is the best material to fill this space?

Two of the middle bolts had aluminum wedges under the washers because of
the angle of the keel sump. One was corroded to dust. There was not much
left of the other. Can I use G10 to replace these, or should I have them
fabricated from stainless steel?.

One of the pictures shows the placement of the jackstands. I am open to
input on their placement. Is it sufficient to hold the hull for an extended
time?

Thanks for any input.

David Swensen
Freya   35 MK 3
On the Hard in Beverly, MA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray