Re: Navigation board @ Pulster shop
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:51:33 +0200, Christoph Mair m...@chonyota.net wrote: Am Samstag 18 Juni 2011, 14:51:05 schrieb Daniele Forsi: can someone recommend an USB-i2c interface to use the navigation board externally, for those who don't feel like touching their Freerunner with a soldering iron or have a netbook? The wiki page now contains instructions on how to connect the naviboard v3 to a graphics card [1]. This should enable everyone to use it and requires only three parts: a VGA connector (or DVI or HDMI), a 3V regulator (LDO) and a naviboard. Connect everything as described, plug it in, load the i2c-dev module and run i2cdetect to check if it's working. If the instructions are not detailed enough, please complain and I will try to clarify any issues. I tested this setup with the integrated Intel graphics card on my notebook and it worked fine, a test with an nvidia card will follow. To find the right I2C bus on your machine, load the i2c-dev module and run i2cdetect on all available busses (look in /sys/bus/i2c/devices for i2c-*, or simply try this: for i in `seq 1 20`; do echo $i; i2cdetect -y $i; done;). The commands output should be different if your monitor is disconnected (or switched off). Have fun! Christoph [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Navigation_Board_v3#Example:_connect_the_board_to_a_graphics_card ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation board @ Pulster shop
2011/6/17 Christoph Pulster wrote: I think the Open Source community is missing to link and interaction between projects. Add-on products like navigation-board can cross the gap, for exaple it is useful for Openmoko, Qi Nanonote and Pandora. indeed can someone recommend an USB-i2c interface to use the navigation board externally, for those who don't feel like touching their Freerunner with a soldering iron or have a netbook? -- Daniele Forsi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation board @ Pulster shop
Am Samstag 18 Juni 2011, 14:51:05 schrieb Daniele Forsi: 2011/6/17 Christoph Pulster wrote: I think the Open Source community is missing to link and interaction between projects. Add-on products like navigation-board can cross the gap, for exaple it is useful for Openmoko, Qi Nanonote and Pandora. indeed can someone recommend an USB-i2c interface to use the navigation board externally, for those who don't feel like touching their Freerunner with a soldering iron or have a netbook? I don't have experiences with USB-I2C interfaces but anyone should work. Be sure to add a 3V voltage regulator (LDO) if you want to power the board from USB which supplies 5V. If you want you can build your own adapter using an old VGA cable. The I2C bus is used for DDC. If you have a spare VGA or DVI connector on your computer you could use it to connect the FRNB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector pin 12 and pin 15). To power the board you could try pin 9 which should carry 5V. Use a LDO regulator to get 3.3V or 3.0V which is needed for the sensors. The I2C bus needs level translation too. Fortunately, if you have a complete board, the needed chip is already included. I will add a section to the wiki about how to connect the board to a 5V I2C bus. Pinout and more documentation will be added too. Hope that helps, Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
a) the group free software is nothing but a combination of an adjective and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive That might be the case, but in the context of distributing a piece of software in the context of GNU/Linux, free software refers to the FSF's notion. Any other use is a misuse, Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
I think you're now confusing free software with freeware. Free software app has to be open source (but not in opposite way - freeware and open source apps not always are free software) huh? since when and who made that decision? for all i know, the line goes between open source and free. open source has not to be free and free has not to be open source. to signify what you have in mind, the term foss was coined. and just the need to add f signifies that free is not open source per se (and vice versa of course). Remember, in free software term free means freedom, not free beer (as in freeware) :P that is only _one_ meaning. as human language goes, the very same word might have a lot of meanings -- depending on context, speaker, time or place. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, arne anka wrote: [Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:] I think you're now confusing free software with freeware. Free software app has to be open source (but not in opposite way - freeware and open source apps not always are free software) huh? since when and who made that decision? for all i know, the line goes between open source and free. open source has not to be free and free has not to be open source. to signify what you have in mind, the term foss was coined. and just the need to add f signifies that free is not open source per se (and vice versa of course). Remember, in free software term free means freedom, not free beer (as in freeware) :P that is only _one_ meaning. as human language goes, the very same word might have a lot of meanings -- depending on context, speaker, time or place. for the sake of record keeping (and because i think it's an important distinction, though i accept that others disagree): the term free software was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was published by the free software foundation [1]. it quite clearly embedded the definition of free that sebastian refers to when it said: When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Specifically, the General Public License is designed to make sure that you have the freedom to give away or sell copies of free software, that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things. . the term free software may well have been in use before then, but it was set in stone by 1989. the term open source was coined in early 1998 [2], nearly a decade later, by a group of people who _inter alia_ objected to the ambiguous meaning of free in ordinary english. FLOSS and FOSS were terms coined later, off the back of the term open source. it's true that english is still ambiguous in its definition of free, but it's not fair to say that free software is an ambiguous term. it has been precisely defined for over 20 years, long before the term open source was coined. when sebastian speaks of free software, i think he's right to impute the FSF's definition of freedon to it. please by all means use the terms open source, FOSS, FLOSS and so on if you find they help crystallise your thinking, but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the work you've done, i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think free software means only free as in beer. hopefully i'm not offending anyone by jumping in with a bit of history! -- Tom Yates - http://www.teaparty.net [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-1.0.txt [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source : The decision by some people in the free software movement to use the label “open source” came out of a strategy session held at Palo Alto, California, in reaction to Netscape's January 1998 announcement of a source code release for Navigator.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
the term free software was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was published by the free software foundation [1]. a) the group free software is nothing but a combination of an adjective and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive b) qualifying a substantive with free has been in use long before the creation of software c) free software is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF -- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying When we speak of free software ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) -- but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used words in a very common grammatical construction. to conclude the discussion: sebastian would be right _only_ if somewhere in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition. i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified! it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the only way to think. thus, if any author claims his/her software to be free software, he/she is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the requirements laid down in the GPL. but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the work you've done, i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-) i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think free software means only free as in beer. i don't. as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of free (or free software) has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse and that definition was (and is) still lacking. free might be as in beer or speech or nothing to do (and those of us coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that not only the meaning of free might differ but even the extend involved), but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most of us tend to think in therms of the GPL. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:21:50PM +0100, arne anka wrote: the term free software was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was published by the free software foundation [1]. a) the group free software is nothing but a combination of an adjective and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive b) qualifying a substantive with free has been in use long before the creation of software c) free software is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF -- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying When we speak of free software ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) -- but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used words in a very common grammatical construction. Qualifying a substantive with free is far older yes, but that is not a point, nor is a) a point. c) may be a point but they're really just bringing clearity cause the word is fuzzy. to conclude the discussion: sebastian would be right _only_ if somewhere in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition. i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified! If one is to be used then that one should be used. Ethymologically that is right, but also the other usage of the word isn't really widely spread nor accepted by many today, it also makes no sense. it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the only way to think. thus, if any author claims his/her software to be free software, he/she is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the requirements laid down in the GPL. GPL is not the only free license. Furthermore, if you by using the term free software to describe software that is not free but gratis, you have misused the word haven't you? but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the work you've done, i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-) i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think free software means only free as in beer. i don't. as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of free (or free software) has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse and that definition was (and is) still lacking. free might be as in beer or speech or nothing to do (and those of us coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that not only the meaning of free might differ but even the extend involved), but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most of us tend to think in therms of the GPL. Yes free may be interpreted as free of duties (which i belive is what you meant with nothing to do) however interpreteing it as free of charge is still not a very good thing cause it breaks the definition of free. Because free is such a fuzzy word, mainly due to misusage of the word one can use the words libre or gratis to distinguish them. Open source is however not the same as FLOSS or Free/Libre Software. The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same idea as the Free Software movement has. For the Free Software movement the idea of Free/Libre Software is that it should be free as in freedom. Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open Source. And mainly because there is such a large movement of Free Software (free as in freedom) and the usage of free while in the discussion of software the usage of the word free in regards to software is in any case but the term Freeware analogous with libre software. And you know what? Free as used in free of charge often can be intepreted as you are free to do whatever you want to do with it, not only that it is gratis. If i have a free soda pop for you, then you can use it for whatever, even give it away to someone else.. for if i attached criterias for why it is gratis then would it still be free? Please clean up your own language usage to avoid things like this, it is tedious to have to be carefull about the word free is applied only because people do not consider their own language usage or the consistancy in their language. /end of arrogant rant about language usage. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
/end of arrogant rant about language usage. this is getting too long for me :) just download the relevant packages which this thread started about and read license in there, it might help your understanding :)) cheers Petr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg l...@leth.yi.org: The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same idea as the Free Software movement has. [...] Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open Source. FWIW, that is not my understanding. I believe that the practical requirements of Open Source and Free Software are mostly identical. The difference is one of philosophical emphasis: the Open Source movement chooses to emphasize practical and tangible benefits from using and working on their projects, whereas the Free Software movement emphasizes freedom, even if it means working in the short term with an inferior product. I hope that's useful to someone (and correct!) ... Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
Since this is a mailinglist about openmoko's «free»runner, I think it's normal to assume everyone on this mailinglist understands the idea behind the free philosophy. On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 16:09 +0100, Viktor Lindberg wrote: On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:21:50PM +0100, arne anka wrote: the term free software was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was published by the free software foundation [1]. a) the group free software is nothing but a combination of an adjective and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive b) qualifying a substantive with free has been in use long before the creation of software c) free software is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF -- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying When we speak of free software ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) -- but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used words in a very common grammatical construction. Qualifying a substantive with free is far older yes, but that is not a point, nor is a) a point. c) may be a point but they're really just bringing clearity cause the word is fuzzy. to conclude the discussion: sebastian would be right _only_ if somewhere in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition. i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified! If one is to be used then that one should be used. Ethymologically that is right, but also the other usage of the word isn't really widely spread nor accepted by many today, it also makes no sense. it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the only way to think. thus, if any author claims his/her software to be free software, he/she is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the requirements laid down in the GPL. GPL is not the only free license. Furthermore, if you by using the term free software to describe software that is not free but gratis, you have misused the word haven't you? but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the work you've done, i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-) i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think free software means only free as in beer. i don't. as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of free (or free software) has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse and that definition was (and is) still lacking. free might be as in beer or speech or nothing to do (and those of us coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that not only the meaning of free might differ but even the extend involved), but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most of us tend to think in therms of the GPL. Yes free may be interpreted as free of duties (which i belive is what you meant with nothing to do) however interpreteing it as free of charge is still not a very good thing cause it breaks the definition of free. Because free is such a fuzzy word, mainly due to misusage of the word one can use the words libre or gratis to distinguish them. Open source is however not the same as FLOSS or Free/Libre Software. The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same idea as the Free Software movement has. For the Free Software movement the idea of Free/Libre Software is that it should be free as in freedom. Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open Source. And mainly because there is such a large movement of Free Software (free as in freedom) and the usage of free while in the discussion of software the usage of the word free in regards to software is in any case but the term Freeware analogous with libre software. And you know what? Free as used in free of charge often can be intepreted as you are free to do whatever you want to do with it, not only that it is gratis. If i have a free soda pop for you, then you can use it for whatever, even give it away to someone else.. for if i attached criterias for why it is gratis then would it still be free? Please clean up your own language usage to avoid things like this, it is tedious to have to be carefull about the word free is applied only because people do not consider their own language usage or the consistancy in their language. /end of arrogant rant about language
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 03:39:42PM +, Neil Jerram wrote: 2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg l...@leth.yi.org: The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same idea as the Free Software movement has. [...] Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open Source. FWIW, that is not my understanding. I believe that the practical requirements of Open Source and Free Software are mostly identical. The difference is one of philosophical emphasis: the Open Source movement chooses to emphasize practical and tangible benefits from using and working on their projects, whereas the Free Software movement emphasizes freedom, even if it means working in the short term with an inferior product. I don't wish to be rude but you're not actually contradicting anything i'm saying afaict thought you are putting the words diffrently to emphasis that Open Source would have a better technical solution, i'm not sure that is the case, it might be true to some extent yes. But when you have virtues and value ethics highly you might have to avoid certain methods which you consider evil to some extent. And frankly to use any GNU/Linux distribution as an example, Free Software is not that technically inferior. In fact most GNU/Linux systems are have a much higher rate of free software as part of the system then non free open source software. There are even distributions that have strict policies agains including non free software that works perfectly well with perhaps the small exceptions of some few hardware drivers, in this case you can just avoid buying hardware from vendors who completle ignores the call for free software. Not to forget OpenBSD which is 100% Free Software and is renown for being a really good technical solution. Yes it is true that the Open Source movement likes to focus on the technical advantages of Open Source Software, but it's not true to say that good technical solution is ignored by the Free Software movement. However the big diffrence lies as you said in the philosophical part, that ethical apsects of software freedom, thus somtimes the Free Software movement is sometimes happy with a suboptimal solution for the sake of moral issues. (in my case i consider linux a subotpimal technical solution, but it allows for me to run a fully free OS) I hope that's useful to someone (and correct!) ... Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation
2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg l...@leth.yi.org: I don't wish to be rude but you're not actually contradicting anything i'm saying afaict Actually I think I am a bit. You said Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open Source, which sounds to me like you are saying that people cannot modify or redistribute Open Source code. But in fact they can, according to every OSI-approved license that I've heard of. thought you are putting the words diffrently to emphasis that Open Source would have a better technical solution, i'm not sure that is the case, it might be true to some extent yes. It sounds like you think that I'm supporting the Open Source point of view. I'm not; I was just trying to describe the philosophical difference as clearly as possible. As it happens, I strongly prefer the Free Software point of view - and I completely agree with what you write next: But when you have virtues and value ethics highly you might have to avoid certain methods which you consider evil to some extent. And frankly to use any GNU/Linux distribution as an example, Free Software is not that technically inferior. [...] Yes it is true that the Open Source movement likes to focus on the technical advantages of Open Source Software, but it's not true to say that good technical solution is ignored by the Free Software movement. Well I certainly hope not, given that I've been working (on and off) on a FSF project for more than 10 years now... :-) Best wishes, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
c'mon, you know he meant well I can only applaud new pieces of software for our freerunners, so keep up the good work I personally think it's entirely up to you to release or not release the source files (afterall, you could also make a programme people have to pay for) but it might be interesting for both you and the community; maybe someone has a good idea or a suggestion to make? maybe someone will propose a patch? anyway, it's still up to you (imho) just have fun! On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com wrote: This means that it is preview and not releasable yet. I know what it free software - but it is up to author, when he makes releases. And if he makes it at all. This is only to know, that it is not sleeping. So please don't be fidgety - I have spent on this 7 months, every day 2-3 hours, many times to late night (to 2 am) and I can thank god I have so lovely family to allow that. This is true for other my projects too. Why don't I buy navigation for 200 bucks instead of spending my rare time that would cost by the way my employer thousands? With no donations and no gratitude. Anyway, I should slow down... Neil Jerram wrote: 2010/1/3 Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com: Happy new year everyone! If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116 This is nice news, but what is it with the sorry, no source code yet thing? Mike, I don't actually mean to complain at you in particular. It seems to me that a lot of people write something like that, especially with their early releases. I just don't understand why, and I'm afraid that your post has pushed me over the edge into saying something about it. Do people not know what Free Software means? (Plus it's not hard to find a way of hosting source code...) Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4247408.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
hi,
If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi:
http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116
Currently not for usage, only as preview for Debian users.
downloaded the packages on my laptop:
van...@vanek:/tmp$ ./osm2mcmap
bash: ./osm2mcmap: cannot execute binary file
van...@vanek:/tmp$ strace ./osm2mcmap
execve(./osm2mcmap, [./osm2mcmap], [/* 38 vars */]) = -1 ENOEXEC
(Exec format error) dup(2) = 3
fcntl64(3, F_GETFL) = 0x8002 (flags
O_RDWR|O_LARGEFILE) fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620,
st_rdev=makedev(136, 3), ...}) = 0 mmap2(NULL, 4096,
PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb803e000
_llseek(3, 0, 0xbfb4d7d0, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
write(3, strace: exec: Exec format error\n, 32strace: exec: Exec
format error ) = 32 close(3)= 0
munmap(0xb803e000, 4096)= 0
exit_group(1) = ?
i get the same with the mcnavi
i get mcnavi trying to run on latest shr-u, but as i cannot convert
the map, i get:
# ./mcnavi
Cannot open map
sources would help to get the converter running...
cheers
Petr
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Re: Navigation
2010/1/4 Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: c'mon, you know he meant well Yes indeed. I apologize for raising this issue on Mike's thread; I should have started a new thread and so not have singled out Mike in particular. Best wishes, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Neil Jerram neiljer...@googlemail.comwrote: 2010/1/4 Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: c'mon, you know he meant well Yes indeed. I apologize for raising this issue on Mike's thread; I should have started a new thread and so not have singled out Mike in particular. Best wishes, Neil just my 2c: maybe you confuse free software with open source software and viceversa... Mike releases his software as free software now... maybe late as an open source one. But that's not the topic. Keep on going guys! d ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On 1/4/10, Davide Scaini dsca...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Neil Jerram neiljer...@googlemail.comwrote: 2010/1/4 Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: c'mon, you know he meant well Yes indeed. I apologize for raising this issue on Mike's thread; I should have started a new thread and so not have singled out Mike in particular. Best wishes, Neil just my 2c: maybe you confuse free software with open source software and viceversa... Mike releases his software as free software now... maybe late as an open source one. But that's not the topic. Keep on going guys! d ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I think you're now confusing free software with freeware. Free software app has to be open source (but not in opposite way - freeware and open source apps not always are free software) What he did is freeware. Open source could be when I'd be able to look at source, and free software would be when I'd be able to do with that source what I want. Remember, in free software term free means freedom, not free beer (as in freeware) :P -- Sebastian Krzyszkowiak dos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
Happy new year everyone! If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116 Currently not for usage, only as preview for Debian users. Mike Crash wrote: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Screenshots here: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=115 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4246609.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com wrote: Happy new year everyone! If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116 Currently not for usage, only as preview for Debian users. Mike Crash wrote: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Screenshots here: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=115 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4246609.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community don't stop it now ;-) great to have choice... is it faster than navit (even if buggy but just to know)? d ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
2010/1/3 Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com: Happy new year everyone! If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116 This is nice news, but what is it with the sorry, no source code yet thing? Mike, I don't actually mean to complain at you in particular. It seems to me that a lot of people write something like that, especially with their early releases. I just don't understand why, and I'm afraid that your post has pushed me over the edge into saying something about it. Do people not know what Free Software means? (Plus it's not hard to find a way of hosting source code...) Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
This means that it is preview and not releasable yet. I know what it free software - but it is up to author, when he makes releases. And if he makes it at all. This is only to know, that it is not sleeping. So please don't be fidgety - I have spent on this 7 months, every day 2-3 hours, many times to late night (to 2 am) and I can thank god I have so lovely family to allow that. This is true for other my projects too. Why don't I buy navigation for 200 bucks instead of spending my rare time that would cost by the way my employer thousands? With no donations and no gratitude. Anyway, I should slow down... Neil Jerram wrote: 2010/1/3 Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com: Happy new year everyone! If you want to look at progress, here is first version of MC Navi: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=116 This is nice news, but what is it with the sorry, no source code yet thing? Mike, I don't actually mean to complain at you in particular. It seems to me that a lot of people write something like that, especially with their early releases. I just don't understand why, and I'm afraid that your post has pushed me over the edge into saying something about it. Do people not know what Free Software means? (Plus it's not hard to find a way of hosting source code...) Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4247408.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
2010/1/3 Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com: This means that it is preview and not releasable yet. This makes no sense. How can the binary be releasable, but the source code not? I know what it free software - but it is up to author, when he makes releases. And if he makes it at all. I agree that it is completely your choice when, whether and what to release. But you should not claim that your project is free software if you do not release the source code. To be fair, I don't know if you _have_ ever claimed that your project is free software. I basically just assume that everyone on this list is intending to follow the conventions of free software - perhaps that's a bad assumption on my part. This is only to know, that it is not sleeping. That is appreciated, thanks! So please don't be fidgety - I have spent on this 7 months, every day 2-3 hours, many times to late night (to 2 am) and I can thank god I have so lovely family to allow that. This is true for other my projects too. Why don't I buy navigation for 200 bucks instead of spending my rare time that would cost by the way my employer thousands? Understood; I think we all know these feelings... Personally I'm afraid I can no longer manage to work at that kind of intensity, but I fondly remember the days when I could and did. And, I really believe that releasing the source code could help you and your project! With no donations and no gratitude. Those are bad reasons for working on free software, of course, but I would guess that you didn't really mean them...? Anyway, I should slow down... Not because of my comment, I hope! Best wishes, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
This is not a good idea. Rendering such amount of data will take a (long) while, also there si problem where to save it (little memory and slow card), also you need any map angle at any time. And rendering speed is not a big problem, it seems to work fine (or at least satisfactorily). Yorick Moko wrote: might be an idea worth considering: have the possibility to calculate a route, and pre-render the bitmaps of your route (at a few zoom-levels) This way it doesn't have to be done on the fly when you know for example where you are going to travel to when you don't follow the planned route it will of course render new files when nescessary you should also have the option to delete them afterwards of course or maybe a setting two way trip; this setting wil save all the rendered files on your way to your destination, use the pre-rendered images on your way back, and ask you if you want to delete them when you return home just an idea On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com wrote: Sure I'm using speed data from OSM and if not available, set it based on way type and common speeds. I can find shortest and fastest path. No detection if road is in the city yet. I made some progress in last days and I'm going to use it for the first time to drive home today :) Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Crash schrieb: I use A* for routing, it is usable, but still not what I expect. But I have some improvements in my mind :) I need to create rerouting now and to test it in real life I don't have any idea, how the code looks like, but I guess, that you use gps-positions as heuristic and distances as edge-weights. That means that you always get the shortest path. If you want to get the fastes path, then you have to use timevalues calculated by possible speed and edge-length. With openstreetmaps that can be difficult, because many roads don't have any speedsproperties. You often only can use the roadtype depending on country to guess the speed. Maybe you used this, but in a first shit, I guess that you don't. I hope these ideas can help you improving your tool. Greetings Bastian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLI6B6lYiDScJJ+7QRAugfAKD4cLPiucAwIP2eXajmSlMdRSyKxQCg3q6D bChe84DmVlpTa9dx4dBzE2o= =II9r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4163143.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4170094.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
Sure I'm using speed data from OSM and if not available, set it based on way type and common speeds. I can find shortest and fastest path. No detection if road is in the city yet. I made some progress in last days and I'm going to use it for the first time to drive home today :) Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Crash schrieb: I use A* for routing, it is usable, but still not what I expect. But I have some improvements in my mind :) I need to create rerouting now and to test it in real life I don't have any idea, how the code looks like, but I guess, that you use gps-positions as heuristic and distances as edge-weights. That means that you always get the shortest path. If you want to get the fastes path, then you have to use timevalues calculated by possible speed and edge-length. With openstreetmaps that can be difficult, because many roads don't have any speedsproperties. You often only can use the roadtype depending on country to guess the speed. Maybe you used this, but in a first shit, I guess that you don't. I hope these ideas can help you improving your tool. Greetings Bastian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLI6B6lYiDScJJ+7QRAugfAKD4cLPiucAwIP2eXajmSlMdRSyKxQCg3q6D bChe84DmVlpTa9dx4dBzE2o= =II9r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4163143.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
might be an idea worth considering: have the possibility to calculate a route, and pre-render the bitmaps of your route (at a few zoom-levels) This way it doesn't have to be done on the fly when you know for example where you are going to travel to when you don't follow the planned route it will of course render new files when nescessary you should also have the option to delete them afterwards of course or maybe a setting two way trip; this setting wil save all the rendered files on your way to your destination, use the pre-rendered images on your way back, and ask you if you want to delete them when you return home just an idea On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Mike Crash m...@mikecrash.com wrote: Sure I'm using speed data from OSM and if not available, set it based on way type and common speeds. I can find shortest and fastest path. No detection if road is in the city yet. I made some progress in last days and I'm going to use it for the first time to drive home today :) Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Crash schrieb: I use A* for routing, it is usable, but still not what I expect. But I have some improvements in my mind :) I need to create rerouting now and to test it in real life I don't have any idea, how the code looks like, but I guess, that you use gps-positions as heuristic and distances as edge-weights. That means that you always get the shortest path. If you want to get the fastes path, then you have to use timevalues calculated by possible speed and edge-length. With openstreetmaps that can be difficult, because many roads don't have any speedsproperties. You often only can use the roadtype depending on country to guess the speed. Maybe you used this, but in a first shit, I guess that you don't. I hope these ideas can help you improving your tool. Greetings Bastian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLI6B6lYiDScJJ+7QRAugfAKD4cLPiucAwIP2eXajmSlMdRSyKxQCg3q6D bChe84DmVlpTa9dx4dBzE2o= =II9r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4163143.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Crash schrieb: I use A* for routing, it is usable, but still not what I expect. But I have some improvements in my mind :) I need to create rerouting now and to test it in real life I don't have any idea, how the code looks like, but I guess, that you use gps-positions as heuristic and distances as edge-weights. That means that you always get the shortest path. If you want to get the fastes path, then you have to use timevalues calculated by possible speed and edge-length. With openstreetmaps that can be difficult, because many roads don't have any speedsproperties. You often only can use the roadtype depending on country to guess the speed. Maybe you used this, but in a first shit, I guess that you don't. I hope these ideas can help you improving your tool. Greetings Bastian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLI6B6lYiDScJJ+7QRAugfAKD4cLPiucAwIP2eXajmSlMdRSyKxQCg3q6D bChe84DmVlpTa9dx4dBzE2o= =II9r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/10 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net: Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. I don't think that this would be a good choice at all. Tangogps uses png pictures with no routing information within these files. For a navigation application you need vector images to determine the path for routing. And the data for maybe a whole country in png and for all zoom levels would be a few gigabyte with tens of thousands of files. Compared to the vector format navit uses which is only a few hundred megabytes in one file. And it could be rendered in all zoom levels because it is in vector format. So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Thanks for following up and explaining this; what you say makes sense. I suppose I was representing the non-technical point of view: I've already downloaded a pile of map data once, why should I need to install or download it again? I can see now why navit can't use only tangogps's bitmap data. But I would guess that a combination could work well: bitmap data for display, plus vector data for routing. The bitmap data could be shared. It would take a lot of space per tile, but would only be needed for places visited and zoom levels used. The vector data would be needed over a much larger area, but would take much less space per square kilometer. I guess the problem then would be ensuring consistency between the vector and bitmap data... If you already have the vector data you doesn't need the bitmap data anymore because you can render the displayed map directly from these data. That is what navit already does and therefor a combination of vector and bitmap data makes no sense. It would make the data redundant and more complicated. Ciao, Rainer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
2009/12/10 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net: Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/10 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net: Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. I don't think that this would be a good choice at all. Tangogps uses png pictures with no routing information within these files. For a navigation application you need vector images to determine the path for routing. And the data for maybe a whole country in png and for all zoom levels would be a few gigabyte with tens of thousands of files. Compared to the vector format navit uses which is only a few hundred megabytes in one file. And it could be rendered in all zoom levels because it is in vector format. So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Thanks for following up and explaining this; what you say makes sense. I suppose I was representing the non-technical point of view: I've already downloaded a pile of map data once, why should I need to install or download it again? I can see now why navit can't use only tangogps's bitmap data. But I would guess that a combination could work well: bitmap data for display, plus vector data for routing. The bitmap data could be shared. It would take a lot of space per tile, but would only be needed for places visited and zoom levels used. The vector data would be needed over a much larger area, but would take much less space per square kilometer. I guess the problem then would be ensuring consistency between the vector and bitmap data... If you already have the vector data you doesn't need the bitmap data anymore because you can render the displayed map directly from these data. That is what navit already does and therefor a combination of vector and bitmap data makes no sense. It would make the data redundant and more complicated. Ciao, Rainer I find very useful to have a mixture of vectorial and bitmap not to load the same data but other data like sat pictures, geological data, or historical ones etc etc. David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
If you already have the vector data you doesn't need the bitmap data anymore because you can render the displayed map directly from these data. That is what navit already does and therefor a combination of vector and bitmap data makes no sense. It would make the data redundant and more complicated. it would decrease cpu usage for those areas already in png. i don't know how exactly navit renders, but i got the impression, reading and displaying vector data answers for a good deal of delay. of course one could take the already rendered map and store it as tiles in a cache, with an intelligent caching policy one may be able to limit the space necessary. but then again: how many people need these tiles again? and is the rendering really the culprit for the notable delay? but that's only a theoretical question -- the immense need of space make tangogpos more ore less useless for me. i don't like the idea of downloading a mass of tiles for arther limited area. with navit's maps i get all of europe in less than tangogps needs for the greater hamburg area ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
If you already have the vector data you doesn't need the bitmap data anymore because you can render the displayed map directly from these data. That is what navit already does and therefor a combination of vector and bitmap data makes no sense. It would make the data redundant and more complicated. Personnaly I don't find it redundant. - If you use a 2D map, it's easier to draw a bitmap rather than a vector. It consume less cpu so less battery. Due to my experience, I find navit really slower than tangogps - There is more maps in bitmaps than in vector format, I think about google's ones, I'm using thats maps but I would appreciate routing, with a combination of bitmap and vector you can see the map in png and get routing informations from vector one, less cpu, advantage of both vector and bitmaps. You can even show the calculated itinary on top of the bitmap ... -- -- Openmoko phone gui : http://www.qalee.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Christophe M meumeu1...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Personnaly I don't find it redundant. - If you use a 2D map, it's easier to draw a bitmap rather than a vector. It consume less cpu so less battery. Due to my experience, I find navit really slower than tangogps - There is more maps in bitmaps than in vector format, I think about google's ones, I'm using thats maps but I would appreciate routing, with a combination of bitmap and vector you can see the map in png and get routing informations from vector one, less cpu, advantage of both vector and bitmaps. You can even show the calculated itinary on top of the bitmap ... There is another big advantage using the vector format, you may decide what and when rendering of the available data, may change colors, rendering styles, etc. all in real time. With the tile approach you'll have get a fixed set of features with a fixed style that may not match your needs. With vectorial data you may merge several layers togheter in a easy way, (no multiple file for a tile, no alpha blending etc.) Finally, a full featured osm navigation system may use osm api to update easily data for a region with a minimal use of bandwidth. As suggested the right way may be to cache autorendered tiles to a smart cache, the renderer engine may precompute near tiles while moving in a separate thread and the traditional tile way may be used for terrain, sat, or if really necessary to show other map tiled map sources. m2c Niko ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:03:01 +0100 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net wrote: So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Yes, and the earth is flat too ;-) As it was already pointed out in this thread navit uses vector data and tangogps uses bitmap data. Vector data allows for calculation of a route. As long as you use only very basic data it is more space efficient. If you add terrain data like opencyclemap[1] or maps-for-free[2] then you have quickly many times more data and on-the-fly rendering on an embedded device becomes impossible. Using bitmap data means it is fast because you only need to display data while a fast computer has been doing a nice rendering. Another example: in Italy there is currently the import of houses going on, i.e. you get a good idea of the streets with the bitmaps while you get emptiness with the vector data[3]. tangogps is far superior in speed, quality of maps and choice of maps. However in-car navigation is currently not its purpose. But for hiking or cycling it offers much better map data. Marcus [1]http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=13lat=47.46438lon=9.55192layers=B000 [2]http://maps-for-free.com [3]http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.07332lon=13.23026zoom=16layers=B000FTF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Mike, which alorithm do you use? A* or just the slow Dijkstra as Navit does? Greetings Bastian Mike Crash schrieb: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Screenshots here: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=115 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLISuQlYiDScJJ+7QRAkfAAKCZCZ4/OoY1WcpBJEfutObgsC4uJQCgw3xm SjFHAVO9spVuNXfCf3O71gY= =dG4Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
I use A* for routing, it is usable, but still not what I expect. But I have some improvements in my mind :) I need to create rerouting now and to test it in real life Someone asked why not to improve navit - this was my first shot. But ... I found it a little complicated, it needs some parts totally to rewrite and also I like control of the source code, not to depend on someone else. Also I write it very different and plan to replace not only navit, but also create outdoor navigation with tourist marks, cycle routes and contours, but it is far future It needs also more optimisations to map render, to map format, to GUI etc... ohh and it uses binary format of cause Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Mike, which alorithm do you use? A* or just the slow Dijkstra as Navit does? Greetings Bastian Mike Crash schrieb: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Screenshots here: http://www.mikecrash.com/index.php?name=Newsfile=articleid=115 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLISuQlYiDScJJ+7QRAkfAAKCZCZ4/OoY1WcpBJEfutObgsC4uJQCgw3xm SjFHAVO9spVuNXfCf3O71gY= =dG4Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Navigation-tp4141297p4147945.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
Dnia 2009-12-09, śro o godzinie 11:02 -0800, Mike Crash pisze: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Great! Looks nice :) Right on time to todays CU release. Lets put it to Community section until you release stable application. -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
yeah ! great ! what is the map source used to route ? an osm file ? or do you use a binary-optimised one ? Anyway, so glad you did it in EFL :) On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Patryk Benderz patryk.bend...@esp.plwrote: Dnia 2009-12-09, śro o godzinie 11:02 -0800, Mike Crash pisze: Hello everyone, I only want to inform you, that I am working on new navigation for the Freerunner, current name is MC Navi, but may change. Great! Looks nice :) Right on time to todays CU release. Lets put it to Community section until you release stable application. -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB ste...@le-roux.info 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:05 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Looks very nice! I wish it'll create some competition to boost Navit development, or something like that :) r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. Thanks! Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. I don't think that this would be a good choice at all. Tangogps uses png pictures with no routing information within these files. For a navigation application you need vector images to determine the path for routing. And the data for maybe a whole country in png and for all zoom levels would be a few gigabyte with tens of thousands of files. Compared to the vector format navit uses which is only a few hundred megabytes in one file. And it could be rendered in all zoom levels because it is in vector format. So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Ciao, Rainer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
2009/12/10 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net: Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. I don't think that this would be a good choice at all. Tangogps uses png pictures with no routing information within these files. For a navigation application you need vector images to determine the path for routing. And the data for maybe a whole country in png and for all zoom levels would be a few gigabyte with tens of thousands of files. Compared to the vector format navit uses which is only a few hundred megabytes in one file. And it could be rendered in all zoom levels because it is in vector format. So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Thanks for following up and explaining this; what you say makes sense. I suppose I was representing the non-technical point of view: I've already downloaded a pile of map data once, why should I need to install or download it again? I can see now why navit can't use only tangogps's bitmap data. But I would guess that a combination could work well: bitmap data for display, plus vector data for routing. The bitmap data could be shared. It would take a lot of space per tile, but would only be needed for places visited and zoom levels used. The vector data would be needed over a much larger area, but would take much less space per square kilometer. I guess the problem then would be ensuring consistency between the vector and bitmap data... Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:19:59AM +, Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/10 Fox Mulder quakem...@gmx.net: Neil Jerram wrote: 2009/12/9 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not to belittle the effort -- but in what respect will it be different from navit? would it be worth a consideration to use navit's engine, maybe improving it and add a new efl based interface? Good question. For me the frustrating thing about navit is that it doesn't share maps with tangogps. So: - if you do consider helping navit instead, please consider enhancing it to use the same maps as tangogps - if you continue with your own project, please consider making it use the same maps as tangogps. I don't think that this would be a good choice at all. Tangogps uses png pictures with no routing information within these files. For a navigation application you need vector images to determine the path for routing. And the data for maybe a whole country in png and for all zoom levels would be a few gigabyte with tens of thousands of files. Compared to the vector format navit uses which is only a few hundred megabytes in one file. And it could be rendered in all zoom levels because it is in vector format. So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit does which is way better for this purpose. Thanks for following up and explaining this; what you say makes sense. I suppose I was representing the non-technical point of view: I've already downloaded a pile of map data once, why should I need to install or download it again? I can see now why navit can't use only tangogps's bitmap data. But I would guess that a combination could work well: bitmap data for display, plus vector data for routing. The bitmap data could be shared. It would take a lot of space per tile, but would only be needed for places visited and zoom levels used. The vector data would be needed over a much larger area, but would take much less space per square kilometer. I guess the problem then would be ensuring consistency between the vector and bitmap data... You may be interested in this Google Summer of Code project: http://foregroundnoise.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/gsoc-09-final-report/ -- Sebastian signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navigation Bar modified notification
Hi, I think it's a good idea to have such a link. I suggest deleting community in front of Applications, otherwise there is a repetition. The page is a list, so it may be a good idea to have List of in the page name. And it is not all applications, so try List of selected community-developped applications as a page name. The page should link not only to the projects repository, but also to the other list of applications floating around in the wiki and on the net (including those by Openmoko). Yours, Minh -- Le mardi 26 août 2008, BrendaWang a écrit : Dear all: I put the Openmoko community application on the community navigation Bar. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Community_Applications Feel free to let me know if you like it , or not. Brenda ___ documentation mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation -- Minh HA-DUONGChargé de recherche CNRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] CIRED, Campus du Jardin Tropical tel: +33 1 43 94 73 81 45bis ave. de la Belle Gabrielle fax: +33 1 43 94 73 70F94736 Nogent-sur-Marne, France Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://minh.haduong.com (work), http://minh69.blogspot.com (personal) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
