Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 25, 2010, at 2:37 AM, mike wrote: *Neither is better on an absolute basis. The choice depends on your application. Once you know your application the debate goes away. The debate only exists when people presume erroneously that someone else's needs mirror their own.* That was written 4 years ago. He also wrote Film is not going away. We know better now. Today Kodak is not making Kodachrome any more. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: We know better now. Today Kodak is not making Kodachrome any more. Right. So Kodak dropped a venerable film from their product line. A large part of the reason was because of competition from Fuji. An awful lot of photographers preferred a couple of the Fuji's over Kodachrome. Also, most of the users of Kodachrome, your typical holiday snap shooters, were switching to mostly point and shoot digital for all their photo taking. Kodak continues to produce a wide variety of film for the casual photographer up to the professionals. Kodak is certainly not out of the film business. Film is not going away, at least not in your lifetime. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Fuji, Kodak and I believe Ilford are all still producing film. One of the other reasons Kodachrome was dropped was it required special processing. Could not be done in, in store labs etc. Stewart At 08:54 PM 1/26/2010, you wrote: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: We know better now. Today Kodak is not making Kodachrome any more. Right. So Kodak dropped a venerable film from their product line. A large part of the reason was because of competition from Fuji. An awful lot of photographers preferred a couple of the Fuji's over Kodachrome. Also, most of the users of Kodachrome, your typical holiday snap shooters, were switching to mostly point and shoot digital for all their photo taking. Kodak continues to produce a wide variety of film for the casual photographer up to the professionals. Kodak is certainly not out of the film business. Film is not going away, at least not in your lifetime. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: One of the other reasons Kodachrome was dropped was it required special processing. Could not be done in, in store labs etc. Quite so. A nice film, but over time, other formulations achieved equivalent or even better results at lower cost and hassle. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:01 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Fuji, Kodak and I believe Ilford are all still producing film. ... and delivering it to customers via horse-drawn carriage. Here is a thoughtful post... In a recent conversation with one of the scientists/archivists at the Getty museum in Los Angeles we discussed the future of color film. We agreed that what keeps color film alive is the motion picture film industry and once that industry moves over largely to digital capture and even more importantly, digital projection there will not be enough demand for color film for anyone to continue to produce it profitably and it will disappear. Regardless of it's attributes or the demand by prominent film makers and photographers no one will any longer be able to afford to produce it. The still film market is minuscule when compared to the motion picture market and any innovations you are seeing are motivated by motion picture sales and not still film. Unlike BW film, there is a huge amount of technology involved in the production of color film and because of this I believe it will likely disappear completely in the next 5 to 10 years. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100124134411AAwoHCs * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Except Your Government insists on putting all their archival material on microfilm, even alongside the digital archives, and archival preservation of their paper. Your Government also is the world's largest user of vacuum tubes. - Original Message - From: t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:01 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Fuji, Kodak and I believe Ilford are all still producing film. ... and delivering it to customers via horse-drawn carriage. Here is a thoughtful post... In a recent conversation with one of the scientists/archivists at the Getty museum in Los Angeles we discussed the future of color film. We agreed that what keeps color film alive is the motion picture film industry and once that industry moves over largely to digital capture and even more importantly, digital projection there will not be enough demand for color film for anyone to continue to produce it profitably and it will disappear. Regardless of it's attributes or the demand by prominent film makers and photographers no one will any longer be able to afford to produce it. The still film market is minuscule when compared to the motion picture market and any innovations you are seeing are motivated by motion picture sales and not still film. Unlike BW film, there is a huge amount of technology involved in the production of color film and because of this I believe it will likely disappear completely in the next 5 to 10 years. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100124134411AAwoHCs * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
This is one of the most off-track threads that I can recall. But since Kodachrome has been mentioned, I thought to recall Kodachrome II, the greatest color film ever. Disappeared during the rapacious Hunt brothers' execrable attempt to corner the silver market in the early 70's. Probably the demarcation of Kodak's utter fall from grace. They discarded silver-rich K II in favor of K25 and K64, both inferior films; pros saw the difference, and stocked their freezers with what remained of the K II left. Anyone curious to see what a real dmax film can do need only look at National Geographics of the early 70's and prior. Kodak's hubris of trying to slip inferior stock under the nose of market turmoil led to an opening for Fuji, and for E6 processing. No looking back. There is a third act for Kodak, however: their high-end imaging sensors today are the best anywhere. Shutter lag. Teddy Kennedy was the toughest act ever to photograph. Unlike every other public speaker, his habit was to raise his hands while looking down. Any pro worth his salt wants gesture and eye contact simultaneously. Timing was everything. Mention has been made about delay with film SLR. The precision of Leica and other rangefinder immediacy skips past all of that. Only delay is in the eye-hand relay. Shooting with bursts is simply idiotic, assumption that something will work out. The decisive moment occurs athletically within the photographer. Can we drop this now? --- On Tue, 1/26/10, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 9:54 PM On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: We know better now. Today Kodak is not making Kodachrome any more. Right. So Kodak dropped a venerable film from their product line. A large part of the reason was because of competition from Fuji. An awful lot of photographers preferred a couple of the Fuji's over Kodachrome. Also, most of the users of Kodachrome, your typical holiday snap shooters, were switching to mostly point and shoot digital for all their photo taking. Kodak continues to produce a wide variety of film for the casual photographer up to the professionals. Kodak is certainly not out of the film business. Film is not going away, at least not in your lifetime. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:57 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:01 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Fuji, Kodak and I believe Ilford are all still producing film. ... and delivering it to customers via horse-drawn carriage. That is a totally silly and childish and patently untrue statement. You do yourself, as well as others, a disservice when you inject such crapola into an otherwise essentially fact-based discussion. It is so Glenn Beckish. It is not humorous either, and thus less digestible. May I suggest that you cut the ridicule. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I would have said so Keith Olbermannish but other than that, this is wholly Tom P'ish. On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 9:47 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:57 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:01 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Fuji, Kodak and I believe Ilford are all still producing film. ... and delivering it to customers via horse-drawn carriage. That is a totally silly and childish and patently untrue statement. You do yourself, as well as others, a disservice when you inject such crapola into an otherwise essentially fact-based discussion. It is so Glenn Beckish. It is not humorous either, and thus less digestible. May I suggest that you cut the ridicule. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 26, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Ellen Rains Harris wrote: Your Government also is the world's largest user of vacuum tubes. Smart move. Vacuum tube circuits are resistant to EMP. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:16 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:01 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? No I'm not going there. If you think learning to load film into a developing tank is a useful skill, you are going to have to defend it. I think it may have some useful background for chemistry and possibly the optics portion of physics. Lots of science classes start by teaching the arcana from the past. He may walk away with something useful but you might never know what it could be. I'm surprised that it continues only because of the expense of the materials. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I like IrfanView as a free app to do basic functions, like rotating, re-sizing, basic contrast/brightness, adding text, etc. www.irfanview.com Mike Fred Holmes wrote: At 09:19 AM 1/24/2010, Tony B wrote: none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. What is the best process for resizing a digital photograph? What application does one use? I presume that the high-end photo-manipulators all do a good job, but what if someone doesn't want to spring big bucks for CS and its ilk? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
This isn't quite correct. I've been a professional photographer for almost 30 years. I retired from it professionally full time a few years back. Anyway, unless you lock up the mirror on your SLR you've got lag time. Many cheaper SLRs didn't have this capability. But the photographer did something strange, they got to know their camera. And as someone mentioned earlier, they learn to anticipate. I no longer use a SLR. And no longer being a professional I didn't buy into a DSLR. Instead I have a Lumix FZ18. It has a burst mode which takes 3-4 (don't remember which right now) shots. This works great for group portraits. Oh, and the Lumix FZ18 has an 18x Leica optical zoom lens. Very nice. Another reason I decided to bag going for interchangeable lenses on a DSLR. I couldn't rationalize the cost on the very few instances I might need something different. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:36 PM, chad evans wyatt wrote: Perhaps this is a moment to state that professional photographers remember - and use! - film cameras, that display no shutter lag at all. Count me among them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Wow, bringing back memories now. My first SLR was (I think it was called) a Practica. It had the screw mount interchangeable lenses. Talk about impractical. But damn near indestructible. Much like my Nikon F3 was. You could throw those cameras across the room, pick them up and they'd still work just fine. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I have three. My dads old Exakta, my old Pentax ME Super, and my newer Minolta. My Pentax needs some work and those folks are hard to find. My sons got my dads Canon Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Jan 24, 2010 9:44 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag Wow, bringing back memories now. My first SLR was (I think it was called) a Practica. It had the screw mount interchangeable lenses. Talk about impractical. But damn near indestructible. Much like my Nikon F3 was. You could throw those cameras across the room, pick them up and they'd still work just fine. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I have three. My dads old Exakta, my old Pentax ME Super, and my newer Minolta. My Pentax needs some work and those folks are hard to find. My sons got my dads Canon Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Yes, back in the '50s, I ran a lot of BW pan film through a C3 and developed it myself (I still have the negatives and prints somewhere...). Then I went to a Kodak Retina, which was advanced by comparison. The next was Pentax K1000 with a large bag full of lenses and accessories. When I retired, the company gave me a Minolta Supreme (point shoot + zoom) which ended up taking the place of the Pentax 90% of the time. Now, of course, I use a digital camera (currently a Kodak Z710, which is a little bulky and slow, but has an excellent Schneider Varigon lens). That reminds me that I still have a half exposed roll of film in the Minolta... I have not been at all tempted to spend Big Bucks on a DSLR with interchangeable lenses. I am sure that, in the hands of a talented professional, they take great pictures, but I suspect that most of them are sold to yuppies who want to show off their disposable income. I also suspect that many of those never get taken out of the box. Mike Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Is THAT what burst mode is good for? I read about it when I got my camera but it seemed useless. Agreed on the ridiculous number of people getting DSLRs these days. This past christmas we had several more local housewives get them as gifts, and of course none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. They're trying to start a local camera club to teach them some things, but I don't hold out great hope. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I no longer use a SLR. And no longer being a professional I didn't buy into a DSLR. Instead I have a Lumix FZ18. It has a burst mode which takes 3-4 (don't remember which right now) shots. This works great for group portraits. Oh, and the Lumix FZ18 has an 18x Leica optical zoom lens. Very nice. Another reason I decided to bag going for interchangeable lenses on a DSLR. I couldn't rationalize the cost on the very few instances I might need something different. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
The Argus was my dad's good camera. I shot and developed a little bit in High School with it. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Mike Sloane mikeslo...@verizon.net wrote: Yes, back in the '50s, I ran a lot of BW pan film through a C3 and developed it myself (I still have the negatives and prints somewhere...). Then I went to a Kodak Retina, which was advanced by comparison. The next was Pentax K1000 with a large bag full of lenses and accessories. When I retired, the company gave me a Minolta Supreme (point shoot + zoom) which ended up taking the place of the Pentax 90% of the time. Now, of course, I use a digital camera (currently a Kodak Z710, which is a little bulky and slow, but has an excellent Schneider Varigon lens). That reminds me that I still have a half exposed roll of film in the Minolta... I have not been at all tempted to spend Big Bucks on a DSLR with interchangeable lenses. I am sure that, in the hands of a talented professional, they take great pictures, but I suspect that most of them are sold to yuppies who want to show off their disposable income. I also suspect that many of those never get taken out of the box. Mike Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I used Panasonic X film had smal grains. Then we had Plus X. Good old days. When color came in I no longer could work in the lab.What a pain. Marcio -Original Message- From: Mike Sloane mikeslo...@verizon.net Sent: Jan 24, 2010 11:53 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag Yes, back in the '50s, I ran a lot of BW pan film through a C3 and developed it myself (I still have the negatives and prints somewhere...). Then I went to a Kodak Retina, which was advanced by comparison. The next was Pentax K1000 with a large bag full of lenses and accessories. When I retired, the company gave me a Minolta Supreme (point shoot + zoom) which ended up taking the place of the Pentax 90% of the time. Now, of course, I use a digital camera (currently a Kodak Z710, which is a little bulky and slow, but has an excellent Schneider Varigon lens). That reminds me that I still have a half exposed roll of film in the Minolta... I have not been at all tempted to spend Big Bucks on a DSLR with interchangeable lenses. I am sure that, in the hands of a talented professional, they take great pictures, but I suspect that most of them are sold to yuppies who want to show off their disposable income. I also suspect that many of those never get taken out of the box. Mike Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Yes 35 mm, black and white. I used to develop and enlarge the pictures. Dou you know that they still seel her in E-Bay? You can see how it dominated inte scenario of photogtapphy in Wikipedia... Marcio -Original Message- From: John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.com Sent: Jan 24, 2010 1:32 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag The Argus was my dad's good camera. I shot and developed a little bit in High School with it. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Mike Sloane mikeslo...@verizon.net wrote: Yes, back in the '50s, I ran a lot of BW pan film through a C3 and developed it myself (I still have the negatives and prints somewhere...). Then I went to a Kodak Retina, which was advanced by comparison. The next was Pentax K1000 with a large bag full of lenses and accessories. When I retired, the company gave me a Minolta Supreme (point shoot + zoom) which ended up taking the place of the Pentax 90% of the time. Now, of course, I use a digital camera (currently a Kodak Z710, which is a little bulky and slow, but has an excellent Schneider Varigon lens). That reminds me that I still have a half exposed roll of film in the Minolta... I have not been at all tempted to spend Big Bucks on a DSLR with interchangeable lenses. I am sure that, in the hands of a talented professional, they take great pictures, but I suspect that most of them are sold to yuppies who want to show off their disposable income. I also suspect that many of those never get taken out of the box. Mike Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio I remember, although I never owned the C3. I had an Argus C44, and still do. This was followed by my first SLR, a Topcon RE Super. It had a removable prism to change the view screen, and was the only camera that could be fitted to the periscope in a US Navy submarine. Still have it also. Also have a Mamiya SLR and a Pentax Super ME. All still work. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Marcio wrote: I used Panasonic X film had smal grains. Then we had Plus X. Good old days. When color came in I no longer could work in the lab.What a pain. Marcio I think the fine-grain BW film was Kodak Panatomic. Speed ASA 25. Plus X had speed 100, Tri-X speed 400. I like shooting with BW but wanted large grain film to give an illusion of pointillism. I used Kodak 2475 film with speed 1600, pushed to 3200. It was intended for police surveillance. It had a sensitivity to infrared light, so that portraits of people tended to show skin blemishes. Worked well for portraits of old people since the portrait was imbued with the concept of old age. I can't remember the name of a Kodak color slide film that rendered false colors. For example, a blue sky would appear reddish pink, and nearly every color was replaced by a greatly differing color. This was way before Photoshop which can do the same thing to a normal image. My daughter three years ago took photography in high school. There they still use BW film in cameras and learn to develop and print in a darkroom. I loaned her my Pentax Super ME to take the class. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
At 11:47 AM -0500 1/24/10, Robert Carroll wrote: [snippage] I can't remember the name of a Kodak color slide film that rendered false colors. For example, a blue sky would appear reddish pink, and nearly every color was replaced by a greatly differing color. This was way before Photoshop which can do the same thing to a normal image. I don't remember the name, either, but I believe it was an infrared film. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: My daughter three years ago took photography in high school. There they still use BW film in cameras and learn to develop and print in a darkroom. I loaned her my Pentax Super ME to take the class. I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
You wanted him to learn how to fire howitzers? On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:49 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: My daughter three years ago took photography in high school. There they still use BW film in cameras and learn to develop and print in a darkroom. I loaned her my Pentax Super ME to take the class. I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 24, 2010, at 6:37 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: This isn't quite correct. I've been a professional photographer for almost 30 years. I retired from it professionally full time a few years back. Anyway, unless you lock up the mirror on your SLR you've got lag time. Many cheaper SLRs didn't have this capability. But the photographer did something strange, they got to know their camera. And as someone mentioned earlier, they learn to anticipate. One can learn to anticipate a lag of a few 1/10s of a second. A lag of 2 or 3 seconds is a completely different matter requiring the photographer to become a fortune teller. I borrowed a Nikon for a vacation that had such a lag and found it completely impossible for candid photos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I used to have a nice amplifier to enlarge the photos and I could do many tricks in the dark room. And there were many kinds of developpers for films and papers and many kinds of papers. Great. Marcio -Original Message- From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com Sent: Jan 24, 2010 5:49 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: My daughter three years ago took photography in high school. There they still use BW film in cameras and learn to develop and print in a darkroom. I loaned her my Pentax Super ME to take the class. I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
It's always credible to learn the history and art behind the work you are doing. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:09 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 3:07 PM, mike wrote: You wanted him to learn how to fire howitzers? That would have been more useful. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
So your son took a class called 'digital photography' and then they made him learn about developing? On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:49 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: My daughter three years ago took photography in high school. There they still use BW film in cameras and learn to develop and print in a darkroom. I loaned her my Pentax Super ME to take the class. I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
One can learn to anticipate a lag of a few 1/10s of a second. A lag of 2 or 3 seconds is a completely different matter requiring the photographer to become a fortune teller. I borrowed a Nikon for a vacation that had such a lag and found it completely impossible for candid photos. I have such a Nikon. I use the burst or sports mode [similar] and have almost no lag to worry about. It's been great for candid and street photos, as long as you don't have to focus for a closeup. My first camera, after the ancient box camera and my Dad's Certo Dollina 35mm, was a [Honeywell] Pentax H1a--no light meter, 3 lenses, autowinder. We weren't allowed to use cameras with internal light meters for the photography courses I took. I really like BW Tri-X 400 for its versatility. Also BW and color slides were easy/cheap to process myself in the lab, but color prints weren't. The H1a got badly smashed up after it was dropped for the 100+ time. I replaced it with an Asahi Pentax K1000 which I still use from time to time. I had real problems with my husband's Canon TLB and a Nikon F2 mostly because they're so heavy. We always traveled with the Pentax even though its wood-lined leather case was heavy, just not as much as the Canon or Nikon alone. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
There is an app for that. Comes from FT. Sill home of Army Field Artillery. Hoaah! :-) Stewart At 02:07 PM 1/24/2010, you wrote: You wanted him to learn how to fire howitzers? On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:49 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:25 PM, mike wrote: So your son took a class called 'digital photography' and then they made him learn about developing? There goes Mike again. Trying to respond to CGUYS posts while simultaneously in three chat rooms, streaming youtube and hulu videos, shopping for gaiters at five different online stores, reading four other emails, playing a video game, and fighting off a real-life polar bear that just broke into his living room. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Actually I just like making you dance on command. On Jan 24, 2010 7:44 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:25 PM, mike wrote: So your son took a class called 'digital photography' a... There goes Mike again. Trying to respond to CGUYS posts while simultaneously in three chat rooms, streaming youtube and hulu videos, shopping for gaiters at five different online stores, reading four other emails, playing a video game, and fighting off a real-life polar bear that just broke into his living room. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Roger D. Parish wrote: At 11:47 AM -0500 1/24/10, Robert Carroll wrote: [snippage] I can't remember the name of a Kodak color slide film that rendered false colors. For example, a blue sky would appear reddish pink, and nearly every color was replaced by a greatly differing color. This was way before Photoshop which can do the same thing to a normal image. I don't remember the name, either, but I believe it was an infrared film. After the first roll of snapshots using this strange film, the novelty was gone. But the challenge was to make a good image that just might cause the viewer to first linger, then puzzle over, the altered colors of the film. For example, a photo of a red rose would be rendered as a yellow rose -- not remarkable. If one carefully planned the photo, the altered colors would at first appear normal until the viewer noticed a small portion of the image that wasn't right. This, hopefully, would lead to a careful examination of the photo to see more and more colors that were unexpected. The goal was to make the viewer be completely puzzled about the meaning of the photo. In my youth, I liked to do things like that with the photos that I took. For example, I searched for and bought a chess set that had the chess board with black squares white squares. The chess pieces were ivory-colored plastic, so I painted each of them with gray paint. Putting the chess pieces on the board illuminating with photo lamps (this was long ago) so that there was no shadows, I photographed the black, gray, and white image with color film. First image was as described, second image was same but my hand wearing a bright red long-sleeved shirt reaching for a chess piece, third image was of the chess board with one piece moved. When printed, all three images were displayed in a row. The viewer must puzzle how a color image (shirt hand) appears in a BW photo. These images can now be done easily with Photoshop, but when I was doing this the Apple computer was a decade away from being invented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I don't know if that was it's original intent, but that's what I use it for. It's great for shooting things in motion. Such a case was my visit to the butterfly garden in Victoria Canada. Even while sitting on a leaf they'd keep moving their wings. This was very annoying, trying to get that perfect shot, till I put it in burst mode. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 24, 2010, at 6:19 AM, Tony B wrote: Is THAT what burst mode is good for? I read about it when I got my camera but it seemed useless. Agreed on the ridiculous number of people getting DSLRs these days. This past christmas we had several more local housewives get them as gifts, and of course none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. They're trying to start a local camera club to teach them some things, but I don't hold out great hope. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I no longer use a SLR. And no longer being a professional I didn't buy into a DSLR. Instead I have a Lumix FZ18. It has a burst mode which takes 3-4 (don't remember which right now) shots. This works great for group portraits. Oh, and the Lumix FZ18 has an 18x Leica optical zoom lens. Very nice. Another reason I decided to bag going for interchangeable lenses on a DSLR. I couldn't rationalize the cost on the very few instances I might need something different. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 2:49 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I was quite upset to find that the photography class my son was taking wasted many hours teaching them how to develop film and make prints in the darkroom. Completely useless skills. Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
You still have the submarine? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:29 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: Marcio wrote: I started with the Argus C3. Anyone remember? Marcio I remember, although I never owned the C3. I had an Argus C44, and still do. This was followed by my first SLR, a Topcon RE Super. It had a removable prism to change the view screen, and was the only camera that could be fitted to the periscope in a US Navy submarine. Still have it also. Also have a Mamiya SLR and a Pentax Super ME. All still work. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:01 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? No I'm not going there. If you think learning to load film into a developing tank is a useful skill, you are going to have to defend it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Film is not dead. It may have died in the consumer level but it is still used in commercial production. If your child is going to make it in the photography field he has to learn from the ground up. It is like getting a CIS degree and not know how the stupid machine works or is built. By the way if he does get picked up in the photography filed you know what some of his first assignments will be? Working in the stupid darkroom. Do you know how to dodge a photo? Overexpose to make it look better, underexpose it to get certain effects. Double expose to get a different effect. You don't learn that unless you start off loading film into canisters!! (By the way there are tricks of the trade learned in this useless assignment also, pushing film to correct exposure when taking it etc. He better know his stuff to make it in the filed. Stewart At 10:16 PM 1/24/2010, you wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:01 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? No I'm not going there. If you think learning to load film into a developing tank is a useful skill, you are going to have to defend it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Tom doesn't understand the art part behind photography, only the mechanics of taking digital photos. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 9:16 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:01 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? No I'm not going there. If you think learning to load film into a developing tank is a useful skill, you are going to have to defend it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Had one of those myself. ca. 1950. Marvelous camera. Took lots of good pictures on Kodachrome, Ektachrome, and B/W. B/W was called Pan-X, Plus-X and Tri-X IIRC, but I'm having trouble really remembering it. Fred Holmes At 08:28 PM 1/20/2010, Marcio wrote: Back thereI received several prizes in photo contests with the Argus C3. Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
At 09:19 AM 1/24/2010, Tony B wrote: none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. What is the best process for resizing a digital photograph? What application does one use? I presume that the high-end photo-manipulators all do a good job, but what if someone doesn't want to spring big bucks for CS and its ilk? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I don't recall its name, but there was an infrared film that was used to detect camouflage (or items that were being camouflaged). While the camouflage fooled the naked eye, it didn't fool this film. It could also be used for special effects. Fred Holmes At 11:47 AM 1/24/2010, Robert Carroll wrote: I can't remember the name of a Kodak color slide film that rendered false colors. For example, a blue sky would appear reddish pink, and nearly every color was replaced by a greatly differing color. This was way before Photoshop which can do the same thing to a normal image. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I showed my mom Graphic Converter. It's for the Mac, don't know if they have a Windows version. And it's cheap. I think it was $25, but might be more now. She uses it all the time. I finally got her off of using iPhoto. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:48 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: At 09:19 AM 1/24/2010, Tony B wrote: none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. What is the best process for resizing a digital photograph? What application does one use? I presume that the high-end photo-manipulators all do a good job, but what if someone doesn't want to spring big bucks for CS and its ilk? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Pretty much the build in stuff in any OS can manage a simple resizing...AFAIK. I've never had a problem. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 09:19 AM 1/24/2010, Tony B wrote: none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. What is the best process for resizing a digital photograph? What application does one use? I presume that the high-end photo-manipulators all do a good job, but what if someone doesn't want to spring big bucks for CS and its ilk? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Yah GC is good, no windows version AFAIK...IRFAN view is out there though. Pretty good for windows. On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I showed my mom Graphic Converter. It's for the Mac, don't know if they have a Windows version. And it's cheap. I think it was $25, but might be more now. She uses it all the time. I finally got her off of using iPhoto. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:48 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: At 09:19 AM 1/24/2010, Tony B wrote: none of them even know how to resize a digital photo for posting, much less how to adjust a lens. What is the best process for resizing a digital photograph? What application does one use? I presume that the high-end photo-manipulators all do a good job, but what if someone doesn't want to spring big bucks for CS and its ilk? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:16 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:01 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Completely useless? How so? How does he feel about the experience? No I'm not going there. If you think learning to load film into a developing tank is a useful skill, you are going to have to defend it. Let's not begin by suggesting that loading developing tanks is the only skill associated with film worthy of mention. Can't you think of anything about working with film that is of use in digital photography? I can tell you that knowing what images captured on film can look like, as well as techniques used in the darkroom and what those techniques accomplish, is extremely useful knowledge in the world of digital photography. After all, digital photography is, for the most part, an attempt to mimic film and is typically measured against what can be achieved with that older medium. Obsolete in the eyes of many, film remains the gold standard in the art of photography. Film has advantages over digital, and if one is familiar with those advantages by way of experience gained by using film, that knowledge can influence and guide a digital photographer to do better work. I've been around loads of people who take pictures, pros as well as amateurs, back in the heyday of film as well as today in the digital world. Folks who shot film, even those folks who only took snapshots, knew and understood a lot more about what they were doing back in the day than do most digital shooters of today. For instance, they understood and could therefore anticipate over and under exposure, they knew about depth of field and how to use it to good effect, and they knew about the various film size formats and what was best for certain occasions. Most digital shooters don't have a clue about any of that stuff, will never take their camera off the Auto setting, and will let the camera make every decision about every shot they ever take. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 25, 2010, at 12:53 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you think of anything about working with film that is of use in digital photography? Nope. Nothing. I learned more about gamma after spending 30 minutes with Digital Darkroom than I did after spending 3 months dicking around with polycontrast filters. Doing it the old way is just plain stupid. Knowing about film defects is of zero use. Digital cameras do not attempt to mimic film. That is a silly notion. Film has no advantages over digital. Not one. Zero. You can't name any. Don't knock the auto setting. It produces great results 99% of the time. The first thing I did with my digital camera is to go out and take lots of pictures set at auto under terrible conditions. I was amazed at how well it did. If you use the camera;s scene settings to communicate your intent it gets even better. The latest cameras can even detect smiles and people with closed eyes. Don't knock auto! Any special effects one may have done in camera years ago are better accomplished by taking a good photo and them mangling it in Photoshop. On the other hand there are tons of things specific to digital cameras that a student should be learning. Why waste time on the useless when there is so much useful to learn? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:33 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Do you know how to dodge a photo? Overexpose to make it look better, underexpose it to get certain effects. Double expose to get a different effect. You don't learn that unless you start off loading film into canisters!! Nonsense, you create a mask in Photoshop. You get lots more control that you ever got with dodge and burn. Back in film days the equivalent was creating an internegative mask. I'm glad those days are over. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm A good if not long article on the subject. Some highlights. *Neither is better on an absolute basis. The choice depends on your application. Once you know your application the debate goes away. The debate only exists when people presume erroneously that someone else's needs mirror their own.* *If and only if you're an accomplished artist who can extract every last drop from film's quality then film, meaning large format film, technically is better than digital in every way. Few people have the skill to work film out to this level, thus the debate. * On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:23 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 25, 2010, at 12:53 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you think of anything about working with film that is of use in digital photography? Nope. Nothing. I learned more about gamma after spending 30 minutes with Digital Darkroom than I did after spending 3 months dicking around with polycontrast filters. Doing it the old way is just plain stupid. Knowing about film defects is of zero use. Digital cameras do not attempt to mimic film. That is a silly notion. Film has no advantages over digital. Not one. Zero. You can't name any. Don't knock the auto setting. It produces great results 99% of the time. The first thing I did with my digital camera is to go out and take lots of pictures set at auto under terrible conditions. I was amazed at how well it did. If you use the camera;s scene settings to communicate your intent it gets even better. The latest cameras can even detect smiles and people with closed eyes. Don't knock auto! Any special effects one may have done in camera years ago are better accomplished by taking a good photo and them mangling it in Photoshop. On the other hand there are tons of things specific to digital cameras that a student should be learning. Why waste time on the useless when there is so much useful to learn? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On 1/20/10, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Back thereI received several prizes in photo contests with the Argus C3. Marcio -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es Sent: Jan 20, 2010 5:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag EVIL looks very good, but still a bit expensive. By coincidence, I just received a review for The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You™ by Chase Jarvis. http://www.thebestcamera.com/book.html Excellent advice. The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You. That includes Brownie, box camera, compact, SLR, DSLR, EVIL, Holga, cell phone, pinhole, etc. [haven't read the book yet, only a few reviews]. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:24 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Several new cameras are taking their cues from the iPhone, sporting a huge LCD and a multi-touch interface.Controls are all virtual and much easier to access. Yes, but controls located within a menu, even with a touch-screen, are still no match for the speed of a button or switch. With a touch-screen, you pretty much still have to look to be able to see what you are touching. Buttons or switches only require that you remember where they are located, and you wil never have to take your eye off the action as you make changes. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: On many cameras, manual focus seems to mean merely not autofocus. I.e., no camera sensor determines when the camera is focused. But you still have to use the motor to move the lens elements. There is no way to just twist the lens to change the focus. True. However, the normal function of the motor becomes bypassed in that a switch to the manual focus mode will activate a focus ring, usually located at the base of the lens, that causes the motor to move in small, tightly controlled increments. A large turn of the ring will make the lens move a lot, a small turn will make it move very little. The effect is quite similar to twisting the lens to achieve focus, and is an attempt to replicate that tried and true method of focusing used by SLR film cameras. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
EVIL looks very good, but still a bit expensive. By coincidence, I just received a review for The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You™ by Chase Jarvis. http://www.thebestcamera.com/book.html Excellent advice. The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You. That includes Brownie, box camera, compact, SLR, DSLR, EVIL, Holga, cell phone, pinhole, etc. [haven't read the book yet, only a few reviews]. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Back thereI received several prizes in photo contests with the Argus C3. Marcio -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es Sent: Jan 20, 2010 5:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag EVIL looks very good, but still a bit expensive. By coincidence, I just received a review for The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You™ by Chase Jarvis. http://www.thebestcamera.com/book.html Excellent advice. The Best Camera Is The One That’s With You. That includes Brownie, box camera, compact, SLR, DSLR, EVIL, Holga, cell phone, pinhole, etc. [haven't read the book yet, only a few reviews]. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Sue Cubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: Shutter lag is a problem with my Nikon Coolpix. But I bought it in 2001, so I can't complain too much. I've had much fun with it over the years. Shutter lag can be compensated for in many instances by switching to manual focus, setting and holding the exposure required for a given scene, and using a small aperture so as to be able to keep a lot of the subject matter in focus if there are some distance changes. One should then be able to fire away without having to wait of the camera to reset itself for each shot. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Sue Cubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: Shutter lag is a problem with my Nikon Coolpix. But I bought it in 2001, so I can't complain too much. I've had much fun with it over the years. Shutter lag can be compensated for in many instances by switching to manual focus, setting and holding the exposure required for a given scene, and using a small aperture so as to be able to keep a lot of the subject matter in focus if there are some distance changes. One should then be able to fire away without having to wait of the camera to reset itself for each shot. Steve Small point-and-shoot cameras, those the size of a deck of cards, do not have the ability to focus manually nor do they have aperture-priority mode. Shutter lag has improved some with these cameras, but the newest models still have a significant delay as well as digital SLR cameras. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Robert Carroll carrollcompu...@gmail.com wrote Small point-and-shoot cameras, those the size of a deck of cards, do not have the ability to focus manually nor do they have aperture-priority mode. You are, at a minimum, mostly correct. There are a number of other cameras, those that are in between point-and-shooters and DSLRs, can be controlled in a fashion that often can be used to avoid shutter lag problems. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
But manual focus, etc., is a matter of using menus to get to the function, and then using some control to run the lens motor that focuses the lens, etc. Not a quick process if you are trying to take extemporaneous photographs. My ideal camera would focus and zoom using old-fashioned lens-barrel-twisting sensed by the rangefinder split image, and then use automation only for ISO, aperture and shutter speed. I don't think any such camera exists, although I haven't really tried to search for one. While I haven't actually tried it, I presume that manual focus is like manual zoom -- overshoot, overshoot, overshoot, or if there is a speed control on the motor, approach the setting very slowly. I'm taking pictures at a wedding and I want to photograph the couple as they leave (the recessional, if it's called that). Focus at say, 6 feet, or 10 feet, and snap the picture immediately when the couple comes into the zone. And not have to keep the shutter button half-pressed while waiting for the shot to develop. Twisting a lens barrel to match an index marked 6 is easy. Remembering how to navigate the menus is not. Fred Holmes At 06:00 PM 1/19/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Sue Cubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: Shutter lag is a problem with my Nikon Coolpix. But I bought it in 2001, so I can't complain too much. I've had much fun with it over the years. Shutter lag can be compensated for in many instances by switching to manual focus, setting and holding the exposure required for a given scene, and using a small aperture so as to be able to keep a lot of the subject matter in focus if there are some distance changes. One should then be able to fire away without having to wait of the camera to reset itself for each shot. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
What are they called? How does one determine if a particular camera is one of them. Spec sheets seem to be short on such information. Fred Holmes At 07:20 PM 1/19/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: You are, at a minimum, mostly correct. There are a number of other cameras, those that are in between point-and-shooters and DSLRs, can be controlled in a fashion that often can be used to avoid shutter lag problems. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Robert Carroll wrote: Small point-and-shoot cameras, those the size of a deck of cards, do not have the ability to focus manually nor do they have aperture- priority mode. New camera type that some are calling EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens) that uses the micro 4/3s format may be the right choice. Like the Lumix GF1. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/five-reasons-you-should-ditch-your-dslr/ * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Good article, looks like some good choices for cameras...but for the GF1 for example you are looking at almost a grand again. Not exactly a good choice against a 200-500 dollar point and shoot no matter the advantages. Hopefully the prices will drop. On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 7:30 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Robert Carroll wrote: Small point-and-shoot cameras, those the size of a deck of cards, do not have the ability to focus manually nor do they have aperture-priority mode. New camera type that some are calling EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens) that uses the micro 4/3s format may be the right choice. Like the Lumix GF1. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/five-reasons-you-should-ditch-your-dslr/ * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
But a single time measurement doesn't properly describe shutter lag, since the lag time includes the time for the camera to perform autofocus and declare itself ready. That varies with light level, scene contrast, and other factors. The multiple-photo time presumably includes the time required to write the picture to the camera memory (actually storage but that's another story) card and, perhaps, recharge the flash, etc., and is measuring something different. They ought to measure ready time between pictures. Fred Holmes At 09:35 PM 1/19/2010, chad evans wyatt wrote: Here is some concrete data. Point Shoots have shutter lag. Even some prosumer models have it, although greatly lower. My first DSLR, a Nikon d200, was a sliver slow, much to my surprise. http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutter-lag-comparisons.cfm --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: From: Fred Holmes f...@his.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 8:22 PM What are they called? How does one determine if a particular camera is one of them. Spec sheets seem to be short on such information. Fred Holmes At 07:20 PM 1/19/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: You are, at a minimum, mostly correct. There are a number of other cameras, those that are in between point-and-shooters and DSLRs, can be controlled in a fashion that often can be used to avoid shutter lag problems. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
What are they called? How does one determine if a particular camera is one of them. Spec sheets seem to be short on such information. That's the reason it's a good idea to browse sites like DPReview (www.dpreview.com) and Steve's Digicam (www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews). They do extensive testing of new models and often have old reviews of a model you currently own. You can easily get MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) but after reading a few reviews of units in the price range, configuration, size, et al. of your future camera, you can get a good feel for the pluses and minuses you are making in your buying choices. YMMV * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: But manual focus, etc., is a matter of using menus to get to the function, and then using some control to run the lens motor that focuses the lens, etc. Not a quick process if you are trying to take extemporaneous photographs. Manual focus, etc., is a matter of using menus if the camera is so designed. Other cameras that are designed to be more attuned to the needs of the photographer do not bury such options in menus, but provide immediate access to such functions with dedicated buttons or switches. With such cameras, employing those options can be very quick. Again, we are speaking here not of pocket cameras, but of those cameras that bridge between the DSLR and the standard, fit on the palm of your hand, point-and-shoot. While I haven't actually tried it, I presume that manual focus is like manual zoom -- overshoot, overshoot, overshoot, or if there is a speed control on the motor, approach the setting very slowly. Manual focus can be achieved through, as the word says, manually altering the focus, bypassing normal motor control over the lens. I'm taking pictures at a wedding and I want to photograph the couple as they leave (the recessional, if it's called that). Focus at say, 6 feet, or 10 feet, and snap the picture immediately when the couple comes into the zone. And not have to keep the shutter button half-pressed while waiting for the shot to develop. Twisting a lens barrel to match an index marked 6 is easy. Remembering how to navigate the menus is not. As you point out, plodding through menus or trying to remember where functions are to be found within menus is a pain in the ass and also quite slow. Small cameras typically have a lot of stuff in menus because the tiny body of the camera just does not provide enough area upon which to locate a number of buttons or switches. That is one reason why DSLRs are large by comparison. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I have three. My dads old Exakta, my old Pentax ME Super, and my newer Minolta. My Pentax needs some work and those folks are hard to find. My sons got my dads Canon Stewart At 10:36 PM 1/19/2010, you wrote: Perhaps this is a moment to state that professional photographers remember - and use! - film cameras, that display no shutter lag at all. Count me among them. --- On Tue, 1/19/10, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:19 PM On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: But manual focus, etc., is a matter of using menus to get to the function, and then using some control to run the lens motor that focuses the lens, etc. Not a quick process if you are trying to take extemporaneous photographs. Manual focus, etc., is a matter of using menus if the camera is so designed. Other cameras that are designed to be more attuned to the needs of the photographer do not bury such options in menus, but provide immediate access to such functions with dedicated buttons or switches. With such cameras, employing those options can be very quick. Again, we are speaking here not of pocket cameras, but of those cameras that bridge between the DSLR and the standard, fit on the palm of your hand, point-and-shoot. While I haven't actually tried it, I presume that manual focus is like manual zoom -- overshoot, overshoot, overshoot, or if there is a speed control on the motor, approach the setting very slowly. Manual focus can be achieved through, as the word says, manually altering the focus, bypassing normal motor control over the lens. I'm taking pictures at a wedding and I want to photograph the couple as they leave (the recessional, if it's called that). Focus at say, 6 feet, or 10 feet, and snap the picture immediately when the couple comes into the zone. And not have to keep the shutter button half-pressed while waiting for the shot to develop. Twisting a lens barrel to match an index marked 6 is easy. Remembering how to navigate the menus is not. As you point out, plodding through menus or trying to remember where functions are to be found within menus is a pain in the ass and also quite slow. Small cameras typically have a lot of stuff in menus because the tiny body of the camera just does not provide enough area upon which to locate a number of buttons or switches. That is one reason why DSLRs are large by comparison. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:19 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: As you point out, plodding through menus or trying to remember where functions are to be found within menus is a pain in the ass and also quite slow. Small cameras typically have a lot of stuff in menus because the tiny body of the camera just does not provide enough area upon which to locate a number of buttons or switches. That is one reason why DSLRs are large by comparison. Several new cameras are taking their cues from the iPhone, sporting a huge LCD and a multi-touch interface.Controls are all virtual and much easier to access. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
At 11:19 PM 1/19/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: While I haven't actually tried it, I presume that manual focus is like manual zoom -- overshoot, overshoot, overshoot, or if there is a speed control on the motor, approach the setting very slowly. Manual focus can be achieved through, as the word says, manually altering the focus, bypassing normal motor control over the lens. On many cameras, manual focus seems to mean merely not autofocus. I.e., no camera sensor determines when the camera is focused. But you still have to use the motor to move the lens elements. There is no way to just twist the lens to change the focus. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
Excellent link! It shows my Panasonic as having a .45 second shutter lag. This is the same camera I just posted *has no shutter lag*. Why the discrepancy? As the article states, it's measuring the delay between pressing the shutter button and the camera recording the picture. It is NOT measuring a delay between pressing the button and taking a picture! How can I better explain this? I can take a picture with no delay. But I must wait a second or two to take my next picture, as it takes time to record the previous picture to memory. How long I must wait until my light goes green depends on various factors like speed of my memory card and resolution of the picture. The way I shoot, in maximum res, it seems to take more like 2-5 seconds, but that's probably my imagination. So can everyone please stop agonizing over this non-issue now? On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:35 PM, chad evans wyatt cewyattph...@yahoo.com wrote: Here is some concrete data. Point Shoots have shutter lag. Even some prosumer models have it, although greatly lower. My first DSLR, a Nikon d200, was a sliver slow, much to my surprise. http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutter-lag-comparisons.cfm * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
At 04:45 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: I'll argue it. I've only owned two cheap (~$100) digital cameras - a Kodak and a Panasonic and neither had any shutter lag at all. The few earlier cameras that had this problem got a lot of press. Shutter lag is a problem with my Nikon Coolpix. But I bought it in 2001, so I can't complain too much. I've had much fun with it over the years. Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
