[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: negative absolute positioning bad for SEO?
As far as I know, Bob Easton was credited with the off-left technique -- here's what happened to him: http://www.access-matters.com/2008/04/19/off-left-banned-by-google/ It's something to consider. What? Not letting your site get hacked? Tedd, I think you've missed the punchline of Bob's post and would speculate that you were mislead by the url his cms created which dispenses the question mark in Bob's actual title for the post. The upshot is we don't really know how, why and when Google (and other search engine providers) discriminate against any particular form of hiding text with CSS. [0] What we do know for sure though is that this issue has very little to do with this list's stated purpose. Thread closed please people. Alex css-d moderator [0] Hiding offscreen is probably fairly safe since so many accessibility types have advocated it and so many sites actually do use it legitimately. Even if Google did ban its use outright, spammers could just as trivially place the stuff they want to hide beneath another element with a higher z-order that would obscure what was beneath it. Maybe they already do. Short of Google essentially rendering each and every page and developing an articially intelligent agent that would compare what was hidden and what was shown [1], this is an area that will, for the foreseeable future, require human judgement and intervention - which is not to say Google might not disagree with what you over what is legitimate hiding or not. The tags and css you use are going to come way down the list of things in the big picture when compared to the actual content. If you still feel you need to worry about such things, please take it to a more general web dev discussion list, or even better, one dedicated to SEO. [1] Beyond checking that the color of text is not set to the same as the background... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: SEO and CSS
At 12:36 -0400 2/4/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there any good resources on the best way to create a standards/accessible totally CSS website with maximum Search Engine Optimization? In other words, how can I create a site using only xhtml and css and ensure that it will be found in the search engines and at the highest possible listing? Thanks, Bryan SEO has nothing to do with this list. http://www.google.com/search?q=css%20seo should more than help you on your way, what with an article from Alistapart, Webmasterwhirled, Searchengineblah et al amongst the first results. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible vs. Conditional Comments
Alex, have you found that link about the vector thing being broken? No :( And now the top hit on Google for X-UA and conditional comments is... ... this very thread! I'll keep looking. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible vs. Conditional Comments
At 11:24 -0700 14/3/08, Alan Gresley wrote: This is real problem if an author decides that IE8 should to go into IE7 mode and render like the true IE7. No conditional comments meant for IE7 are used. Microsoft have said Developers, you must use conditional comments, you must use X-UA, these are the only sanctioned ways. Consequently it seems self-evident that Microsoft cannot possibly ship IE8 with conditional comments not honouring the X-UA string (though as we've seen, that means that for IE=5 and IE=7, the version of IE that IE8 should match in a conditional comment is 7) But think about it - the conditional comment matching comes from the vector in the registry and to get multiple copies of IE running alongside one another using the appropriate CCs for each takes hacking of the registry http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/multiIE.html I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt that this *will* be fixed, reasoning that in the face of the storm over the issue of compulsoriness of the X-UA header, their announcements about interoperability and convenient events to launch such things, that they just had to get what there was out there. And currently the support for dynamically tweaking the vector string is broken. Now if my conjecture is wrong, and Microsoft really do intend to ship an IE8 that treats conditional comments as IE8 whatever mode it's in then, well, I can't even begin to imagine the fallout for them and for developers. It seems like that X-UA IE=8 and [if IE 8] or generally IE8 mode alway wins out. Have you tried [if lt IE 8]? I have now http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xuas IE8 shows up as being gt than 7 and not lt 8, regardless of X-UA target or mode. Second: The emulate-IE7-button should overrule the X-UA IE=8. I'm not bothering with the whole emulate IE7 thing, given the things you have to remember (and that I then forget that I'm in IE7 emulation...) I run a second virtual machine with real IE7. Because it seems highly likely that IE7 emulation in IE8 is really only going to be equivalent to IE8 targeted with X-UA IE=7 - I wouldn't trust IE8 to tell me how the real IE7 behaves. What we need is a valid IE8 filter hack and indeed I have found one. http://css-class.com/test/ie8hack-valid.htm Yes, I see why this is important right now, if you are using the emulate IE7 button ;) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible vs. Conditional Comments
Can anyone please confirm that the real IE7 will show blue, blue, green, green and red on all test pages? http://css-class.com/test/ie8hack-valid.htm Confirming. Those colors are what the real IE7 shows. /aol Me too! __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible vs. Conditional Comments
http://www.satzansatz.de/ie8/xua7.html does not show the generated content, but the Conditional Comment for _IE8_ Is this expected? Even if the X-UA-Compatible is set to IE=7, the conditional comment acts as if this is IE8? I noticed this when I added conditional comments to my XU-A tests http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xuas but then read something (er, where I don't remember) that said that conditional comments were currently broken but would obviously be fixed before final release. Of course, I cannot find that page now :( Yes, it's incredibly bizarre that the beta has been shipped without proper support for the X-UA + CC combo, given how much Microsoft has stressed that those are the methods we should use. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible vs. Conditional Comments
I noticed this when I added conditional comments to my XU-A tests That is, that IE8 matches the conditional comment if IE 8 regardless of what X-UA target you set. Sorry. I knew what I meant, but forgot that not everyone has access to the inside of my head... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: New CSS/html tools?..
Aren't Mac people always bragging about how their machines can run Windows better than a PC can? Shouldn't be a problem then... :) This is all completely off topic. It would have been ruled so earlier but evidently us moderators were either sleeping or dead. This list has 8500+ members and a purpose to discuss CSS, rather than one's choice of editor / scripting language / operating system / monitor and desktop arrangement etc... http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic We have a perfectly good page on the wiki http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssEditors Discussion of editors stays there please. ie. this thread now over. Thanks. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Curious question inspired by the X-UA compatible thread
At 22:36 -1000 9/3/08, david wrote: If you have an HTML document that happens to contain another HTML document in an iframe - and one of the two documents triggers quirks mode when rendered by itself - is each one rendered in the same mode or does the browser somehow do one in standards mode and one in quirks mode? I've updated (and moved, but the previous address still works) http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xuas You can now change the X-UA target and the mode of the document that calls the iframed documents. I can see no difference at all in how the iframe content is rendered regardless of the containing document's X-UA or mode. So, in answer to your question, the latter. Iframed documents rendering is exactly the same as if they were being displayed outside of an iframe. NB. of course there may be some as yet undiscovered condition that does cause things to break down (and I make no claims about what the different versions of javascript are doing in each iframe). __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved
I've seen a couple of other cases (not related to parsing/selectors problems but to rendering) where IE8 quirks is equal to IE7 quirks when this differs from IE6 quirks. Also, I just noticed (again, this may be old news by now) that fieldsets and input buttons (and presumably all form elements) are displayed in the manner of IE7 when X-UA is IE=5. So, to recap IE=5 - IE7's quirks mode (regardless of doctype) IE=7 - IE7's standards mode (Standards or Quirks mode with doctype and no url) IE7's standards-ish mode ignoring *+html (Quirks mode without doctype) IE=8 - IE8 native (Standards or Quirks mode with doctype and no url) IE8 native-ish mode ignoring *+html (Quirks mode without doctype) Pretty much then what Microsoft have said then, but perhaps this would have been easier to digest, if it was IE=quirks instead of IE=5 and that it had been explicitly spelt out that it was IE7's quirks mode that was meant. Now, as an aside and not being particularly expert on quirks mode rendering, are there any specific differences (other than the ones just discussed) that anyone is aware of between IE6 quirks mode and IE7 quirks mode? (I'm fully aware of their being many standards mode issues ;) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved
You now have your quirks mode documents with no doctype. If I put in a quirks mode doctype (HTML 4.01 Transitional, no url) then IE8 behavior in those two cases changes. It sees the *+html, as with a standard doctype, like the X-UA IE=8 or 7 overrode the quirks mode of the document. This is more expected. Holey kamoley! Good catch! I've added a second quirks mode to both the iframe demos and the hack filters. As you said, the HTML4 without a URL provokes the expected quirks behaviour with regard to * html. http://local.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua http://local.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/tests/ (yet again) So it seems to be the absence of doctype together with X-UA IE=8 to create some strange effects... Oh yeah. In fact it seems the absence of a doctype creates a different kind of quirks mode to the presence of a quirks mode inducing one... Anyhow Alan's mention of the ID class selector bug and last class bug made me remember running into those very same bugs back in 2003, when I called them runtogetherselectors http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/19985 Little did I think that one day they would come in useful as archaeological tools! I've added Fake Class Real Class, Fake Id Real Id, Real Id Fake Class to the test. (For want of better names - if these already have established names, I'll update accordingly). I've also added something I've called Double Id Class which I've never seen before (source order of multiple classes and their styel declarations both crucial). As with the Real Id Fake Class, it also reveals that IE=5 quirks mode is actually closer to IE7 than IE6. So these cases basically confirm what you and Alan have noted about http://www.brettschultz.com/ie6_exhibit_a.html Right, that's it. I must walk away form this now ;) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved
In IE6 all lines are of equal length. So this would mean that IE8 is emulating the quirks modes different to how IE6 and IE7 handle quirks mode. Is this correct? Nope. Or rather I don't think so. I think your original suggestion was correct. ie. IE=5 actually causes IE8 to emulate IE6 in quirks mode. End of story. My error was to use documents in standards mode as the reference point. I have now updated http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua accordingly so that it is possible to see the effect of the X-UA switch on both standards and quirks mode documents. Along with screengrabs of the observed behaviour. If it all gets too much, you can switch off the bits you don't want to see (suggestions for better text in the legends welcome!) Now, we can see that IE8's rendering is entirely in line with IE6's quirks mode rendering. We can also see that it is definitely not rendering along the lines of IE5 (either 5.01 or 5.5) This got me wondering if IE8 was actually emulating IE6 or IE7 in quirks mode, so I threw together a test suite that pulls together all the hacks/filters that have been used to target various versions of IE and see what happens when targeting different X-UAs. http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/tests IE=5 --- The results show that IE8 is definitely using IE6 when forced into quirks mode by IE=5. All the results tally with IE6 behaviour and we can rule out IE7 behaviour because IE8 in IE=5 mode applies the Star HTML selector selector (* html) but not the Star plus HTML selector (*+html). In fact the only slight niggle where IE8 differs from IE6 is that IE6 only applies the Property + Whitespace + Empty Comment filter to documents authored in quirks mode, but IE8 applies it to standards mode ones too. But, that is what one would expect really, since the IE=5 is an explicit Give me quirks switch. IE=7 --- There is nothing noteworthy to mention about IE7 emulation. It all appears to be consistent. IE=8 --- The only hack / target combination which does not jibe, is the fact the *+html hack also gets applied by IE8 when targeted as IE=8. To repeat *+html targets IE8[0]. Since this only previously targeted IE7, this selector in conjunction with a new selector that IE8 understands but IE7 does not, gives us a current easy way to target IE8. Obviously this is not recommended and hopefully this parsing error will be fixed before a final release and relax Final rumination If you made the foolish mistake of actually choosing to use standards mode [1] and make IE6 work in it, then you are not able to rely on an X-UA fix. You are doomed to keep fixing each latest variation of CSS support that MS foists upon us, regardless of the glib assertions that all one needs so is set the X-UA header and you're all done. sarcasm_as_big_as_the_ritzSo yeah, the business case of using standards has been truly proved I think. /sarcasm_as_big_as_the_ritz [0] I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but I'm sure somebody has already discovered it - probably even on this very list which I skimmed merrily over [1] That would be me - I've never once authored a quirks mode document since the distinction existed __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved
I mostly agree, but not on the Rendered by IE 7 and quirks combinations. Your documents now have an xml declaration at the beginning which puts IE6 in quirks mode, but NOT IE7. The Rendered by IE 7 row should be exactly as the Rendered by IE 6 row. The screengrabs I'm using are exactly how IE7 (a real version, not IE8 emulation or a standalone) renders for me. Note that even without the *+html declaration in there, IE6 should see the * html, and IE7 should not. There is no way that the rows could ever be the same. Ah, I see what you mean. The way I have made it go into quirks mode is not actually making IE7 go into quirks mode. My lazy bad. I'll change it so it actually uses a quirks-causing doctype. Done. You're right about the lengths, but IE7's background colour alternates from mode to mode. So not quite exactly the same as the IE6 row. Thanks for picking that up. I was wondering why IE7 wasn't picking up * html in quirks mode and was thinking that I must have either just hallucinated that I'd seen that behaviour before or that some other congruence of bad voodoo had caused it... ;) And obviously, the IE=7 and IE=8 tests for quirks mode were subtly wrong in IE8 too. But that's now fixed. I'll have to redo the hack tests for IE7 and IE8 in quirks mode too now... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved
At this point I think it's hard to say if with X_UA IE=5IE8 is emulating IE7 quirks or IE6 quirks, simply because the two are hardly distinguishable (I guess is more IE7 than IE6.) Yes, my previous claim that we know it's IE6 was founded on the assumption that I was serving quirks mode documents when, as any fule now knows, I wasn't :( The parsing errors appear to be the same. Evidence for which engine is really being used will have to come from elsewhere. Something that shows Moving on. I've now updated the tests. As I guessed would be the case, the tests all stay the same except for the two star html hacks. Now things get somewhat interesting. http://local.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/tests/ (again) IE8 is now exactly the same as IE6 when X-UA is IE=5. When X-UA is IE=7 or 8 and the doc is in quirks mode, then things go slightly awry. To recap, IE7 applies *+html in standards mode and ignores * html. In quirks mode, the situation is reversed. IE8 in standards mode matches IE7's standards behaviour (for both IE=7 and IE=8). But in quirks mode, IE8 ignores both * html and * + html (again for both IE=7 and IE=8). If declaring IE=7 or IE=8 was enough to force IE8 into the respective standards modes, the star+html should be applied. But something is obviously going on that is allowing the quirkiness to squash the *+html but not enough to bring the * html back into play. How peculiar is that? Disclaimer - yes, remember kids the use of * html (and I would guess *+html) have long been discouraged by Microsoft and if you want to do anything other than play in the conditional comment sandpit you get everything you deserve... Alternatively, you could draw the conclusion that * html is safe as houses for targeting IE6 and under in standards mode (with or without an X-UA) and IE7 and under in quirks mode (without an X-UA). __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 and actual behaviour
http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua In a nutshell, IE8's emulation of IE6 and IE5 does not appear to be off to a flying start. 1. Box model not honoured when targeting IE6 and in standards mode 2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5. Can someone confirm that the results show here are correct, or point out what I'm doing wrong? __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 and actual behaviour
IE8 cannot emulate IE6, only IE5 and 7.
WTF?
So IE=6 is actually the same as IE=5. Genius.
Of course, I believe you, but I'm having difficulty tracking down
where Microsoft say this. Any pointers?
2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.
Which parsing errors exactly? The IE team is looking for such bug
reports right now, so a few test cases would help a lot.
In the example
div#parsing
{
...
background: #ffcc00;
backg\round: #006633;
...
}
Real IE5 colours the div yellow, emulated IE5 gets carried away and
repaints it green.
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[css-d] Old friends - IE8 suffers from fuzzy specificity
... as all previous versions of IE have done http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/hacks/fuzzyspecificity (Reported to the Microsoft beta forum) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 and actual behaviour
Of course, I believe you, but I'm having difficulty tracking down
where Microsoft say this. Any pointers?
Not yet, but I'm 100% certain this is the case.
Ah, ok. I see the answer in liorean's post. In the white paper /
technology overview
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4A3CB46C-8B8D-4B93-AC73-D0BA127B58FAdisplaylang=en
Compatibility Mode Value
Render Behavior
IE=5
Quirks mode
IE=7
Standards mode
IE=8
Internet Explorer 8 Standards mode
IE=edge
Uses latest standards that Internet Explorer 8 and any future
versions of the browser support. Not recommended for production sites.
Yes. I remember now reading that elsewhere. I just can't believe
they're not supporting IE6, but...
2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.
Which parsing errors exactly? The IE team is looking for such bug
reports right now, so a few test cases would help a lot.
In the example
div#parsing
{
...
background: #ffcc00;
backg\round: #006633;
...
}
Real IE5 colours the div yellow, emulated IE5 gets carried away and
repaints it green.
Duly noted. Don't know when I'll be able to send this on, though.
It's alright. I'll report it. Oh no, I can't I'm not on the Technical
Beta list.
Well, I've posted to the IE8beta discussion forum.
Also, #parsing should also be the same width as #control.
So it looks as if IE8 is actually using IE6's parsing engine in
conjunction with the IE5 box model.
In fact, I've just done some tests and I'd say that looks as if is
an understatement. To another thread...
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Re: [css-d] New IE8 page on the wiki
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE8 Is this a comprehensive IE8 page? Or, is it meant only for IE8 Beta? Please clarify these things on that page. It's meant to be comprehensive, ie from gestation to birth (and on to death?) of IE8, betas, release candidates, finals and all. Take a look at the IE7 page to see how things might shake out. It is currently rubbish. I just threw it together as well as I could in 5 to 10 minutes this morning. But, I'm just putting the shout out for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party. Last time, we did great. Just to pick a nit... you ought to make any heading reference of IE8 to clearly state that we're dealing with the IE8 beta. You know that. I know that. The other regulars on this board know that. Search Engines DO NOT KNOW THAT, and it is likely that someone quickly reading that page might see IE8 bug reporting *after* the final version is released. As bugs are fixed, we will say that the bug was fixed in version so-and-so. At the top of the page we should probably have a big *thing* saying what the current latest release is. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] reply-to address
At 20:39 +0300 14/2/08, Ibrahim Y wrote: Hi folks, I hope this never been discussed before... Guess what... I noticed when I want to reply to any email from the list that the default reply-to address is the email of the sender not the list, So, every time I have to reply-all or add the list address manually. I think it's better to set the default reply-to address to the list not the sender's email -IMHO- , if it's doable. 1. Questions or comments about how the list is run are never on topic. Instead you should address such concerns to the list owner [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssDiscussListHeaders End of discussion. See Point No. 1 if you disagree. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Fonts in Vista Office 2007
At 21:50 -0700 5/2/08, Geoffrey Hoffman wrote: I installed Office 2007 on my box at work and really like some of the new fonts that came with it. http://neosmart.net/blog/2006/a-comprehensive-look-at-the-new-microsoft-fonts/ Anyone know if you can buy them separately somewhere? (I really don't need Office 2007 nor Vista on my Win XP box at home.) I spent a half hour searching on Microsoft.com and could not find them for sale alone without buying Vista or Office 2007. css-discuss is not a clearing house for any little problem or question that you have. It is specifically for the discussion of the use of CSS. It is not for finding out where to obtain fonts or your personal preference as to which fonts to use. 8500 or so people just received your email, so please think carefully before posting to the list. In the interest of making this thread somewhat more useful, I suggest the following links: Ampsoft - Common fonts to all versions of Windows Mac equivalents http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html A Padded Cell - Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts in Linux, Mac, and Windows http://www.apaddedcell.com/web-fonts 24 Ways - Increase Your Font Stacks With Font Matrix http://24ways.org/2007/increase-your-font-stacks-with-font-matrix Clagnut - Moving the Font Matrix forward http://clagnut.com/blog/2092/ And of course for exhaustive testing of fonts at varying sizes and screen resolutions, check out the rest of Felix Miata's site. http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/wauth1.html __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Transitional Vs. Strict Doctype
At 09:46 -0800 6/2/08, Elli Vizcaino wrote: Hello List, Not sure if this would fall under off topic. But I wanted to know what the reasons are for using a strict doc type as opposed to transitional. I use strict in my documents but wondered why it seems to be a bad idea to go with transitional as I've seen a couple of topics graze the issue from time to time. In theory, in a land and time far far away, your choice of doctype should reflect your content and whether you can control the markup of that content and would have nothing to do with CSS, but browser history has, ha, rendered that position all wrong. So... On topic: how CSS renders depending on what mode a particular doctype triggers. The css-d wiki's brief introduction http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=RenderingMode PPK's most excellent explanation and test pages http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html Off topic: reasons for using a particular doctype other than reasons of forcing a particluar CSS rendering mode. That said, the above linked page is full of links that should help you with that too. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC - STOP THIS THREAD] Re: ASP.NET and http://validator.w3.org/
At 13:40 -0800 6/2/08, Big Moxy wrote: The w3 validator clearly is not compatible with Microsoft ASP.NET code. Here is an example - http://www.cargovango.com/start.aspx. All of the code that it flags is generated at run time. It's nothing that a developer adds. It's annoying because I can never say that the code is Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional. Has anyone else encountered this or similar situations? Whether or not ASP.NET produces output that validates has absolutely zero to do with CSS. CSS exists independently of scripting languages / frameworks and therefore css-discuss is therefore NEVER the right place to discuss anything that is related to your scripting language of choice. So this thread stops now. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFFTOPIC] Re: hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea
So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help? Sorry Scott, but this is off topic. It's not that it's not an interesting topic, but rather that this list has 8500+ members and a purpose to discuss CSS, rather than one's choice of editor / scripting language / operating system / monitor and desktop arrangement etc... http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: [OT] who do I have to sleep with...
At 16:08 -0700 24/1/08, Dean Mah wrote: That would be an issue to take up with the css-d owner and moderators. evolt.org takes not manage the list, we only host it. There must be reasons for the list being completely moderated and I would suspect that the amount of time that a message is held is related to the number of moderators and their schedules. Dean - on behalf of evolt.org Thank you Dean The fault is mine. I misread Rob's initial email and thought that this had been happening to him repeatedly (rereading it, it patently says nothing of the kind). We hold new subscribers' posts for moderation to make sure that they are not spammers signing up to unleash their wicked ways. Once we've seen that a new poster is ok, then we unmoderate them. Of course, the mailman interface doesn't allow us to see when subscribers signed up or when they were unmoderated which might have checked my foolhardy blustering. Though probably not, since today there has been a lag of at least several hours with mail which was probably the thing which led me furthest up the wrong path. Idiot moderator. Let me remind myself (and others on the list) of this passage in the list's guidelines: If it's taking a long time for your post to show up, wait. When traffic flows are heavy and the server gets overtaxed, it can be a few hours before your message gets processed and sent out to everyone. On the other hand, if you can see from the timestamps that people who posted after you have had their messages go out, something else may be wrong. Wait a while longer, and then contact the list administrators. Do not post a test message to the list. It will either have no effect, or make you look foolish. http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html Mail can take a long time. That's unacceptable. We're posting for help and expecting something back in a reasonable amount of time. Having to wait 12 hours before a post is released results in losing a day's work. Tim Burkart I don't know where this quote came from, but I'd like to take this opportunity to address it. You only have to wait for approval the very first time you post. As often as not, that approval is given within a couple of hours, if not even sooner. The list exists as a community resource. No one is owed anything by the list. If someone loses a day's work because their question wasn't answered quickly enough for them (whether the delay was caused by slothful moderators or apathy from the list in general), then that, I am afraid, is their lookout. Don't leave things to the last minute. Don't expect instant miracles from the list. Treat it right and it will treat you right too. Spread the CSS love... Alex Soon to be sleeping with the fish Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks
A combination of display:table (Mozilla, Opera) and display:inline-block (IE) can cause a wrapper around floats to shrink-to-fit and thus be made amenable to being centered. However, Safari (neither 2 nor 3) does not do the shrink wrapping and so no centering occurs. As far as I know - I'd love to be told that I'm wrong. Paul O'Brien has an alternative approach that can be summed up as: Outer wrapper: float: left; position: relative and left: 50% Inner wrapper position: relative; left: -50% http://www.search-this.com/2007/09/19/when-is-a-float-not-a-float/ It is not without drawbacks, but it may be good enough for your needs __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Clients new site built in tables
So here's the problem, my client is an agency that uses me for design work and I think they've wrongly invested their clients money on a table based site, when it should be all css. Anyone had a similar problem? This is off topic since it isn't a question about the nuts and bolts of actually using CSS. Why? Dealing with clients is off topic. Whether or not to use table-based layouts or not is off topic (moreover, it has been done to the death and almost inevitably ends in people disagreeing violently and rudely with one another). If anyone has anything useful to say to Phil, please either email him directly or consider writing something on the wiki http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=TablesVsDivs Other holy war material is listed in the posting guidelines. Some of that material is a bit ropey, so if anyone wants to help improve those and make the wiki an even better resource, that would be great too ;) http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PostingGuidelines __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER] Re: Revisit our navigation layout semantic.
Recently, David Hucklesby offered us a problem with fitting list based navigation to design intentions. His article was titled, Spreading list items across total width. No he didn't. It was Niels Matthijs who asked the question about Spreading list items across total width and said that he had documented his experiences at http://www.onderhond.com/blog/work/spreading-list-items So first off, your attack is directed in the wrong place. Of course, css-d is the wrong place to send such a flametastic post to start with. Can you please explain what you were actually trying to say without the name calling and the frankly annoyingly self-righteous didactic tub thumping? If you continue posting in the manner in which you have begun (acting the cssgoat? ho ho ho), I can assure you that you will be unsubscribed without haste. Everyone else, please stay out of this thread until Mark has actually made his points politely and cogently. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Selecting CSS file depending on Server using the HTML Page
At 12:40 -0600 11/12/07, Charlene wrote: I have a bad cold Sorry to hear that but a hard deadline. Unfortunately that does not excuse the off topic post - how you assemble your pages has nothing to do with CSS. Please do not treat css-d as a general purpose, Oh, I can't be bothered to figure out where would be the right place to ask this question forum. No more posts to this thread please. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: denying the downloading of img
At 11:57 -0800 12/12/07, jaklitsch maya wrote: I have a request to stop anyone from copying and downloading images from the website I am working on now. ... 1. is it possible with css? I presume that the person who gave you this information meant that if you displayed an image through an element's background property, that it would be 'protected' since some (indeed most, but certainly not all) users would not be able to save it by right clicking on it. I'm not going to explain why that is far from being a thorough solution to the 'problem' or why the problem is not a problem since it is not on topic for this list. This thread is now closed. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] list-item markers vertical-align: top ???
I want the marker centered on the first line of list-item text.
The basic idea is as follows:
ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}
li
{
background-image: url(bullet.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
padding-left: 15px;
}
replacing the image url and padding-left with suitable values.
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/01.htm
gives a step by step explanation, expanding on the basic idea to
reintroduce spacing, right alignment and other variations.
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[css-d] [ADMIN - PLEASE READ] was Re: problems with CSS and floats
Is this what one would call a hijacked thread? Just asking. Nope, this is what is called an unholy mishmash of off-topicness and, frankly, rudeness. My apologies to you Rayburn for your first post descending into one of css-d's rare fits of losing the plot. (Though do please start new threads/questions with a brand new message ;) css-discuss is not a place to discuss: * what are the right and wrong ways of writing markup * which users you should be addressing * which browsers you should be targeting * how accessible or usable you should make your site * the benefits of using or not using standards All declared as off topic at http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic * mailing list administrator's approach to where replies go All comments about issues which relate to the policies and administration of the list should be addressed off list to the owner of the list. That said, there is an explanation of why things are as they are here: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssDiscussListHeaders * quoting styles Again, issues of list policy should be addressed directly to the list owner and not to the list itself. That said... From http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html Trim your replies. If you have more quotation than original text, think about cutting down on the quoted stuff. The list members can look at the message to which you responded, or check the archive. Prune that quoted text with ruthless abandon. The moderators normally don't do anything more than send private messages to overquoters asking them to mend their ways. We also don't normally freak out about top posting even though we don't like it and advise against it. We have however, provided info on the wiki as to how to deal with problems that make Gmail a pain to other members of the list. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=GmailAndCssDiscuss * philosophy From http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html css-discuss is primarily intended to be a place for authors to discuss real-world uses of CSS. This doesn't preclude discussions of theory, or nifty cutting-edge tricks that show off the power of CSS, or even talking about (X)HTML, DOM, and so forth. However, it's greatly appreciated if such discussions have some practical payoff, even if it's just teaching other list members a little bit more about how CSS works. Finally, but most importantly, are these words of Eric's from the list policies which I think need repeating: Above all, if you can't answer with a modicum of respect, or without feeling somehow annoyed by the question, then DO NOT ANSWER AT ALL. OK? Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFFTOPIC] Re: Rules for generating valid CSS
My four rules are: 1. No p tags within p tags. 2. No div, hr, h1 to h6, ul, or li tags inside p tags. 3. No p tags inside li or ul tags. 4. No empty p tags. Are those rules sensible from a validation point of view? This is about markup and validation of the resulting HTML and really doesn't have anything to do with CSS. Please keep any answers offlist. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFFTOPIC] Re: php sthe switcher for multiple style sheets
At 08:40 -0500 22/11/07, DAVOUD TOHIDY wrote: Greetings, I am looking for a php multiple style switcher which can handle switching more than two style sheets for my portfolio located at http://cssfreelancer.awardspace.com . Would appreciate your comments. Comments about style switching in general will be fine (as long as they do not focus on javascript or any other non-css realted aspect). Stuff about php (or any specific server-side language) is not acceptable. Okay? Normally as moderator I wouldn't resort to just replying with a google link (and yes, other search engine companies do exist), but the following query should get you started... http://www.google.com/search?q=css+style+switch+php Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] link image background problem w/IE 6 (natch)
Please note that display:inline-block in invalid CSS2.1 but is valid CSS3. Actually it's valid CSS2.1 but not valid CSS2. Compare http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#display-prop http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#display-prop __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Reliable Opera-only filter?
Rare is the day Opera gets it wrong.
@media screen and (min-width: 0px){
#foo { padding: ... ;}
}
This is hardly a long term fix.
Safari 3 (due for release along with the next version of OS X within
the next couple of weeks) will support media queries. To exclude it
(and other browsers using a recent version of WebKit which already do
- iPhone *cough*), you'd need to do:
@media screen and (min-width: 0px){
#foo { padding: ... ;}
:root #foo { padding: original_value ;} /* reset Safari 3 */
}
But note, even this will break the moment that either Opera supports
:root or the Gecko engine supports media queries. Both of these
outcomes are hardly unlikely.
Opera 8 also supports media queries. Your question said you only
wanted to target the latest version (though whether you mean 9.5a or
9.23 you didn't specify). But Opera 8 certainly isn't the latest
version and would be targeted.
The only hack I know that's been found to distinguish between 8 and 9
is this one
http://thomas.tanreisoftware.com/?p=11#op9
(though he's unaware of the :root hack above)
So revisiting the code snippet, we now have:
@media all and (min-width:0px){
head~body #foo { padding: ... ; } /* Opera 9 */
:root head~body #foo { padding: original_value ; } /* reset Safari 3 */
}
The same caveats apply though.
It might be more useful to you to actually post the problematic html
and css (or better a link to a page to a page containing it). There
might be a better solution than patching Opera and crossing your
fingers...
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Re: [css-d] text leaders
I would like to have solid color leader before some text: In addition to Georg's (as always) sterling efforts, the css-d wiki has a few takes on dot leaders. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=DotLeaders It should be fairly easy to figure out how to transform them from dotted to solid leaders... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: Do we like the same books?
... It is against Shelfari's policies to invite people who you don't know directly. ... As well as being utterly off topic. Buddhamagnet is now an ex-member of the list. Let this be a warning to any other css-d member who thinks spamming the list is a good way to kick start their social network status. Kthxbye! __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] * in css
* is the unversal selector. That means it matches all elements. And
that means all elements (including html, head, body etc)
#foo * selects any element which is a descendant of #foo.
my guess is that the double asterisk is a typo or misunderstanding of
css selectors.
No.
It's a common trick to get round the lack of support in IE6 and under
for the child selector (ie. it is a direct descendant of the
element)
So instead of
#mainNav * {
padding-left: 20px;
}
we use
#mainNav * {
padding-left: 20px;
padding-right: 20px;
}
#mainNav * * {
padding-left: 0;
}
since * * matches elements which are descendants of the first
element's children.
This is nice since * has no specificity, so it shouldn't override
other values that have been set with explicit selectors.
But note, there are flipsides.
One is that you must have the * * declaration after the * one because
they have the same specificity. Not that that's much of a flipside ;)
The other is more serious
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/05/31/universal-child-replacement/#comment-5719
Namely that you may override elements which have been specified using
a lower specificity elsewhere.
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Re: [css-d] IE6 Content Duplication
Most probably it is related to the double html comments in your file. Remove them. I've also found that using Conditional Comments (with the condition being anything but IE) works too !--[if !IE] I won't trigger the duplication ![endif]-- !--[if !IE] Nor will I ![endif]-- If you absolutely must have the comments, that is. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: color consistency, accuracy
I *do* think this is a CSS related problem just because we are so often trying to match text, borders, blocks of background color (all specified with CSS) to images which are generated from some image editing program or another. Off topic - no more on this subject please (except that as I'm already cluttering your inboxes...) The bottom line for making sure that your images will display consistently is an issue of using the right colour profile in your image editing program and/or embedding the relevant profile info in your image. Hence the safest policy (usually) is just to stick to the basic RGB profile. Your photoshop is probably using sRGB by default (thanks Adobe). In the future, when CSS3 becomes a reality then colour will become a CSS issue http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-color-20030514/ And proper colour management is arriving in browsers... http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/06/safari_brings_c.html ... although that may create more problems than it solves if past form is anything to go by http://hsivonen.iki.fi/png-gamma/ Anyhow, start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management But none of this is really on topic for a list about the nitty gritty of using CSS. So no more discussion of this on list though please. Unless anyone has anything constructive to say about the CSS3 color module... Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Any good books on XSL?
At 21:50 -1000 9/8/07, david wrote: Any good books on XSL? At work, I'm going to need to be learning about XSL. Any good books? This has absolutely nothing to do with CSS. If anyone has any suggestions for David, they should send them to him directly. But no replies to the list, please. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: When to use Image Replacement
so what's best practice for something like this? A good question, but one that has nothing to do with CSS per se. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic lists several other mailing lists where you might be better off asking such a question. Anyone with ant=ything to say to Lee on this subject, please do so off list. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Ways to create css pages
At 08:47 -0700 2/8/07, trevor bayliss wrote: Just a quick question to get some: when you design pages do you do it directly from notepad? I was thinking about the merits of using the dreamweaver tools to design the layout with divs and then get changing the code. Alternatively do people have a stock of templates that they use according to the situation? Hello, grumpy moderator here. Just before anyone jumps into this thread, let me just get a couple of things straight. css-discuss is absolutely not the place to discuss the tools that you prefer to use. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. We don't care what editor you use, what scripting language eases your days or what god you pray to when there seems to be no answer to your current css conundrum. That said, whether you maintain libraries and/or snippets of css for reuse from project to project or like to roll your sleeves up afresh each time confronted with a blank slate is very much on topic, so have at it! Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: How would you semanticly write this? Layout
i was wondering whats the best way to semanticly write and style this List. Example: http://www.ceudex.de/test/content_events.jpg Martin [css-d] does not exist to discuss how you should go about marking up your content, but rather how to apply CSS to that markup. Semantics (and accessibility and usability for that matter) are beyond the list's scope. There are many, many ways that one could approach your design and none would be more correct than any other, though some would no doubt be wrong ;) In fact the [css-d] wiki mentions markup as one of the off topic, er, topics. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Occasionally markup can be discussed if it hinges on how the css might be applied to it (and how it might be improved if the markup were tweaked), but your request is so open ended that I can only imagine the list getting bogged down in non-CSS related matters. So please can this thread stop now before it even begins? However, I do ask helpful people to contact Martin off list and provide their recommendations. Then Martin can return to the list and ask how he might go about applying CSS to his brand new markup. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] specificity problem only in IE7??
In my footer i have links that in the hover state are underlined. I can't see which links you mean. Could you be a bit more specific about ones you're on about? It's possible that you have been bitten by what I call fuzzy specificity http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/hacks/fuzzyspecificity __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: white or #FFFFFF?
Sigh. I went off to peel some mangoes and didn't get round to posting the message that follows this. And I return to find it all kicking off. All I have to add to my message is that people should not engage in arguments about list etiquette on the list. Since it's part of the list etiquette not to do so. http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html Jukka's comment may have been somewhat harshly worded but what he said is correct. In fact I had just written to Tedd offlist saying much the same thing. I repeat my request to Tedd to post some sort of example because either: a) it really is a bug (and if so, we really should know about it) b) it's not a bug but rather an oversight on Tedd's part and without resolution future searchers of the list archives / internet will find these misleading suggestions that have been bandied about. Alex Let the Mango Robinson css-d moderator My original message (still scintiallating and worthy of repeated reading) follows: White won't work, but #FF will, why? Please stop wasting time with the issue, unless you can provide URLs of sample pages that demonstrate the problem. If you think you have really _isolated_ the problem, then it should be easy to set up the demo pages. But I'm pretty sure it's just a misunderstanding. Jukka is absolutely spot on. If you can't post the actual page(s), make a copy of what you're working on, remove the bits you need to, and post that (preferably to a server rather than as text in your post). It may even help you track down what's going on. You know, the whole reduce to the simplest possible code that triggers the problem thing ;) http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/mys-bug.html (This goes for everyone, not just Tedd) If someone can provide an actual working example of #FF working but white not, can they please post it? And not spew uncorroborated and unreferenced info about mixing values on to the list... At 10:27 -0400 10/7/07, tedd wrote: That sounds reasonable and the second read makes me think what I've found is just one of a million other peculiarities re IE 6 that has probably been found in some form or another before. So have you fixed the problem or are you still experiencing it? I can't tell from your post. If you are, please do post a reduced test case for us to see. Alex #ffey on the moon Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] white or #FFFFFF?
Just trying to reduce speculations :-) Here: http://www.brunildo.org/test/test/IEhoverdesc.html ... In IE6 only the first works. Right, thanks for that Bruno. A most excellent test case. At last we have an actual sighting of the beast we've been hunting and can confirm that there is a bug. Normal service can resume. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Re: white or #FFFFFF?
This entire list etiquette argument could have been avoided... But it wasn't. If you disagree with me or feel you have anything to say about list etiquette, then please write to the moderators' address and make your disagreement/opinions known there. [EMAIL PROTECTED] But not on list, ok? Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: Mail sent not getting through
At 11:12 +0100 5/7/07, Marcus Taylor wrote: No. All good for me... On 5/7/07 11:10, kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone having problems with mail delivery to the list? Thanks Kate From http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html If you suddenly stop receiving list mail, do not post a test message. Either one of two things has happened: your account was disabled for bounces, or the list itself is down. You can check the first case by logging into your account and looking around-there will be big red-on-yellow text if your account has been disabled. In the second case, you'll do no good by posting, and look foolish when the list does come back up. If it's taking a long time for your post to show up, wait. When traffic flows are heavy and the server gets overtaxed, it can be a few hours before your message gets processed and sent out to everyone. On the other hand, if you can see from the timestamps that people who posted after you have had their messages go out, something else may be wrong. Wait a while longer, and then contact the list administrators. Do not post a test message to the list. It will either have no effect, or make you look foolish. This has been your regularly scheduled Make sure you've read the list policies before posting message. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Thread answered:What is the equivalent of font-size:11px?
But a really good way to get
consistent fonts is to set
body {
font-size:62.5%
}
This along with other resets makes all your fonts equivalent to 10px.
This not only allows you to make nice em sizes like 1.2em for 12 px
etc.
As long as the default font size in the user's agent is such that
100% or 1em is equal to 16px.
This is far from given. For instance, it is not true if the agent is
IE and the text size is not set to medium. Of course many users do
not even realise they can change their font size, let alone do it,
but that's a pretty big assumption to base your designs on.
Anyhow, font sizing is holy war territory and has been pretty much
done to death on the list.
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FontSize
sums it all up. If anyone wants to add to it that would be great.
That is, if the wiki is working and lets anyone edit it.
Alex da moderator
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[css-d] [ADMIN - THIS THREAD HAS SLID WAY OFF TOPIC] Re: Weak layout
OK folks, enough is enough. Opinions about how browsers should handle zooming and text-resizing are not what this list exists for. Nor does the list exist for opinions about whether to use scalable or fixed sizes. Questions and help about how to achieve scalable or fixed solutions on the other hand are very much the point of this list. I think Trevor should have enough brainfood to be getting on with, but if anyone does have any practical suggestions as to how to improve his layout, then that would be fabulous. Alex I am weak Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Word HTML Cleanup tools?
Anyone have a better solution? Yes. Posting to a general web development list rather than one which is specifically concerned with the practical application of CSS. You can find numerous useful lists here: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic And of course, there's always Google [1] http://www.google.com/search?q=word+html+cleanup Further helpful suggestions to Matt off list please. Alex The Cleaner Robinson css-d moderator [1] Other search engines may exist... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - PHP IS OFF TOPIC] Re: multiple similar pages with same navigation bar
At 06:36 + 5/6/07, Trevor Richens wrote: Hi, Strictly speaking this is really an off-list topic but here's my solution. I generate my pages that require this using PHP. I create the basic template page in XHTML and then break down each section into separate files. I then add the PHP tags so that the page gets recreated correctly using the separate files. So a simple header.php file would look like PHP is under no circumstances an acceptable topic for discussion on this list. Why not? 1. PHP is not CSS. 2. Because then we would have to put up with people talking about Perl, Java, ASP, Ruby, Python, Lisp or whatever. Which would be bad enough for the list's signal-to-noise ratio even if the usual language wars didn't ensue. (and what's more Kaye did not even mention that she is using it). Last Thursday I wrote this: If you know (or even suspect) that your post is not on topic DO NOT POST IT TO THE LIST To go ahead and post something that you know to be off topic is totally rude and discourteous to the 8200+ members of the list. Amazingly enough, despite the amazing rate of change that we see on teh interwebs, that remains true today... Alex Robinson css-d moderator and still point of the turning world __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Web Standards - Why do we do it?
At 07:51 -0700 31/5/07, Jon Hughes wrote: Let me preface this email with this: I do not seek to bloat this list with discussion not related to CSS problems, so if you reply, use your discretion as to whether you reply directly to me, or include the list. If you know (or even suspect) that your post is not on topic DO NOT POST IT TO THE LIST To go ahead and post something that you know to be off topic is totally rude and discourteous to the 8200+ members of the list. If you are unsure of whether your post is on topic or not, please send a message to the moderators first. We won't bite. In fact it always makes us feel warm and fuzzy when someone takes that time and effort. The moderators' address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just in case anyone, hasn't got the message yet, this thread is over. Alex Joyless Thread Killer Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: IE7 a la Dean Edwards
Actually there is quite a lot of stuff about Dean's IE7 on the web http://www.google.com/search?q=%22dean+edwards%22+ie7 At 14:16 -0700 16/5/07, Doug Jolley wrote: So, that brings me to my question which is: Does anyone know what's going on with DEIE7 and whether or not it's usable with MSIE7? If it is so usable, are there any caveats that I should know about? As far as I understand it doesn't cause the real IE7 any problems. However, the place to ask these questions and get proper answers would be on the IE7 forums https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=379297 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: Please remove me from this list.
Dear Pamela You can unsubscribe yourself at this page http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d Just enter your email address and password as directed. If you can't remember your password, just enter an incorrect password and you will get the opportunity to recover it. As an aside, the message you just sent was received by close to 8000 people. If you join another mailing list, please read and keep the instructions that you receive on subscribing. These normally have information about how to unsubscribe. Failing that, most mailing lists will have a link to a page that gives the same information. Everybody else, return to your positions, be they absolute, static, fixed or relative... Best wishes Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Popups and script blocker in IE7
At 11:25 -0400 11/5/07, jana coyle wrote: I am developing a site using a client side shopping cart. It requires cookies to be enabled and uses some Javascript. IE7 blocks the cart when it pops up and also blocks the script associated with the cart. Is there anything I can do about this? Yes. Ask the question on a list that deals with cookies and javascript. That is, a general web development list. Not one focused on css. On the off topic page of the css-d wiki you will find several suitable places to ask your question http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Anyone who feels they have an answer, please write Kevin/jana offlist. Thread dead. Relax. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: cms CSS/XHTML
At 10:42 +0200 26/4/07, simone\.benerecetti wrote: hi, is there someone who can advise me a good CMS: CSS/XHTML and no-tables layout and database php/mysql. I'm looking for not only open source applications, but also payment solutions. thank you very much for your time. This is off topic.The list wiki has some info that might be of interest to you though: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssFriendlyCms Please, no more posts on this subject Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: IE6 really is dead to me. Here is why.
(Thank you to the CSS list for allowing me to state my opinions on the direction of browsers, which I am hoping is acceptably on topic. I will endeavor hereafter to focus on more technical concerns.) The eternal sound of the off topic post. Hoping so does not, unfortunately, make it so. Css-d frowns on opinions about the future state of CSS/browsers. We're here to discuss practical matters - there are plenty of other forums where people can and are welcome to vent off about why IE is teh big suck... http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PostingGuidelines Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - NO MORE IE6 IS DEAD/ALIVE COMMENTS] Re: Site check: formever.org
It's also quite unprofessional, IMHO. And it's also rude and contrary to the list policies to make such pronouncements http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html#ask-answer Especially since I'd asked for no more Browser Wars type posts in the forking of this thread, IE6 really is dead to me. Here is why. Please people, if you want to tell someone why their approach to web development is wrong/misguided/whatever, do so off list. Even then, try and couch it in as polite terms as possible and sweeten the pill with constructive comments too. Because no matter how well intentioned you might be, no one likes unsolicited smart aleck responses to questions they didn't even ask. So, anyhow, like the subject says, let's have no more of this IE6 is dead / alive / just resting nonsense... Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] moderator - Can i mention an amazing new app for css? - I don't want to break the rules.
No you can't, or rather shouldn't have mentioned it. Editors are off topic http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Indeed, there's even a specific page in the wiki for such info to prevent us from getting sucked into My browser is the bestest arguments http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssEditors Apologies if i have broken rules Any time you think you might be breaking the rules DON'T POST TO THE LIST Send a message to the moderators instead asking whether your post would be ok. The same is true of issues relating to how the list works. The moderators' address [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Safari miscalculating bottom for absolute positioning
Zoe,
the problem seems to be related to #project-areas and #latest-news.
Remove those two blocks and the problem goes away. As do the two
blocks. Of the two blocks it's #project-areas which is doing the most
damage. Try setting #project-areas p and #project-areas ul to
display: none to see what I mean.
I guess this is to do with fact that Safari somehow remembers the
height of the body element based on the dimensions of the elements
present at load time. I've seen this kind of thing happen when
removing elements with javascript and the same sort of thing seems to
be happening because of the absolutely positioned elements. I hadn't
seen this exact behaviour of yours before, but it certainly looks
like Safari is hanging on to its notion of where #footer starts
out...
The good news is that the nightly builds of WebKit do not display
this behaviour.
The way I work around this sort of thing at the moment is to target Safari
http://tanreisoftware.com/blog/?p=39#safari
so that the offending blocks are hidden and add a class onload so
that they get shown again. Not pretty, but the best I've been able to
come up with so far
http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/hsrc
html[xmlns*=] body:last-child #project-areas, html[xmlns*=]
body:last-child #latest-news { display: none; }
html[xmlns*=] body.enabled:last-child #project-areas,
html[xmlns*=] body.enabled:last-child #latest-news { display: block;
Alternatively, put the button links inside a div (or similar) and
position those. Safari doesn't seem to get things quite so badly
wrong then.
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Re: [css-d] IE7 special code
At 11:34 + 23/3/07, Barney Carroll wrote:
Wow! I've been under the false supposition that IE7 did not 'believe' in
the nameless super-html object.
How is it, then, that this works while the simple '* html' selector does
not?
Because while Microsoft fixed * html they introduced another parsing bug :)
Actually you don't need the :first-child since *+html shouldn't
select anything and doesn't in other modern browsers. It's just IE7
that does it.
The only drawback is that if you want to target both IE7 and IE6 et
al, you need to have a double declaration
* html { ... }
*+html { ... }
At 10:50 + 23/3/07, Chris Ovenden wrote:
.clearing { display:none } /* IE 6 7 */
*|html .clearing { display:block } /* everything else */
I think this is the first sighting of this beast in the wild
http://frontend.blogsome.com/2007/01/23/the-flispide-of-star-html/
Of course that's invalid in CSS2.1
It is valid CSS3 as far as I can tell...
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-namespace/#css-qnames
... but the W3 vaildator claims that it's not which looks like a bug
in the validator to me. Of course, trying to explain that to some
clients may be tricky.
Moreover, you're also going to be targeting older browsers that don't
understand the namespace selector either which may or may not be the
result you're after.
And if we look at the list's very own wiki we find a page dedicated
to IE7 which details even more ways to hack around IE7 including
fuzzy specificity
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7
So, the choice is yours. Obviously though the best solution is to try
and remove the need for the hacks in the first place.
For my own part I've been bumping into serious miscalculations of
both em and percentage sized widths that all other browsers including
IE6 and its oldr siblings handle just fine, but which IE7 gets
hilariously and mysteriously wrong. This is though in pretty complex
layouts and as yet I haven't had the time to roll up my sleeves and
create reduced test cases to see just what is causing these
miscalculations...
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[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Inline paragraph with headers
Actually, I think in this case (if it is a proper H5 tag), I'd go with: ph5Jeff Altemus - Director/h5 First and Second week/p and *then* add display:inline to the H5. etc, etc, etc I'm going to pass over the fact that some of these suggestions have been truly gruesome and move straight to the relevant issue... These are markup issues that relate to semantics and have nothing to do with CSS per se. Please take this discussion off list or to another more general web discussion list. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Inline paragraph with headers
At 10:02 -0700 8/3/07, Michael Stevens wrote: WOW! That's pretty tight administration... I haven't seen a response yet that didn't have something to do with CSS. I beg to differ. However, until Eric shows up and says I was wrong, right or something in between, can people please not leap into this thread. You are, of course, free to have a go at me offlist. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - please read if replying to this thread] Re: expert system for CSS?
2) what do people think of trying to encode all this data / case studies on this list into some sort of expert system - i am thinking something where you could type in keywords or a description of your problem and the system serves of possible useful info and examples of problems solved? If there is something out there already, please let me know. As for the task of programming something like this, it (to me) is more tractable than figuring the behavior of IE5/Win, IE5/Mac, IE6, and IE7 :) If you/anyone could come up with such a beast then it would certainly be a fantastic and worthwhile beast. However, I would ask that people write directly to Douglas to discuss this off-list, whether they are actually interested in taking some active part in such an effort or even if just to say It could never work. Mmmkay? Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Apologies for spam appearing on list
Dear list You may have noticed a couple of spams appear on the list within the last hour. Someone is obviously taking the time to subscribe to the list since only messages from subscribed addresses get through to the list. Unfortunately, unless the message goes above 20k in size, there's no way for our mailing list setup to automatically stop such antisocial behaviour until after it's already happened. This message then is simply to apologise for these messages - I fear we may see some more in the near future... Best wishes Alex css-d moderator PS. Eric and the other moderators have been discussing what we might do about this - if you have any crazy ideas or solutions then please feel free to contact us with them, but please please please, don't send them to the list. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Any way to remove MouseOver flicker in IE?
It's so slow I can watch the status bar as it says it's downloading the rollover image... again... and again... and again... Is there a solution? Painful I know, but fortunately the answer is that, yes, you can make those pesky flickers go away http://www.fivesevensix.com/studies/ie6flicker/ the problem and the various causes dissected http://dean.edwards.name/my/flicker.html Server-side fix (though for some reason Dean's pages aren't displaying) http://evil.che.lu/2006/9/25/no-more-ie6-background-flicker Client-side fix (As far as I know, no one's debunked this as a complete and working solution) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Any way to remove MouseOver flicker in IE? (going slightly OT)
At 14:42 + 7/2/07, Sophie Dennis wrote: Can I go slightly off topic for this list for a moment? Whether GIF or JPG looks better always depends on the kind of image you are working with No please don't. If you ever find yourself mentioning or wondering that your post is off topic (no matter how slightly) STOP. DO NOT POST THE MESSAGE. It's as simple as that. And if you are in doubt whether something is off topic or not, send a message to the list owner's address. Us moderators love it when people are considerate and ask questions first. Remember 7500+ people are subscribed to this list and they signed up to discuss the pratical use of CSS, not web design in general or any other topic. Anyone who has not already, should make sure to read and absorb the info here: http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Problem of color respect
Is there a way to force a navigator to display the same colours and contrats as the original ? (I suppose of course that the screen is able to display all the colors that are required) Samuel, I am afraid that this has nothing to do with CSS and has no place on this list. I suggest that you ask your question on a list more suited to general web design issues such as evolt's theList or WD. See our off topic page for details: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Javascript Bookmarking in Safari
At 12:46 -0500 19/1/07, Geoff Krajeski wrote: Does anyone know a method to bookmark in Safari using Javascript? I'm using this function currently, but cannot seem to find anything on a working model for adding in Safari/Mac: This list is for the discussion of CSS and CSS alone. Please take this question to a more suitable forum. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: [OFF-TOPIC] HTML email, R.I.P.
At 17:20 + 11/1/07, Barney Carroll wrote: This is clearly off-topic to CSS discussion While I agree that the bulk of Brian's message was not really on topic, the news about IE7's baby brother's html rendering is definitely worth its place on the list. That link again in case anyone didn't make it that far: Microsoft Breaks HTML Email Rendering in Outlook 2007 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/01/10/microsoft-breaks-html-email-rendering-in-outlook/ Here are the relevant CSS-related points of the article's payload: # no support for background images (HTML or CSS) # no support for CSS floats # no support for replacing bullets with images in unordered lists # no support for CSS positioning I urge the thread to close. Unless anyone has any practical information to add about actually creating designs that degrade in the new Outlook or further CSS gotchas, then yes, no more posts on this subject please. And certainly no Microsoft bashing or whining. However Barney, it is not your place to make such pronouncements - what if 20 or so like-minded members of the list also wrote similar messages every time they saw an off topic message? I note and appreciate your enthusiasm - but please leave the moderating to the moderators ;) And the same goes for everyone else... P.S: One word: RSS No, one word: CSS :) Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Width and border issues-simple, I think
At 14:29 + 8/1/07, Barney Carroll wrote: Under the strictest rules, all negative number values for measurement are illegal. Not true. Negative values for margin properties are allowed, but there may be implementation-specific limits. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#margin-properties You might have been thinking about padding properties though: Unlike margin properties, values for padding values cannot be negative http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#padding-properties __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: PR and the like
At 15:17 + 8/1/07, Terry wrote: again slightly off topic but think its good sometimes to wander off the path of CSS... Well you are wrong. 1. It's not slightly off topic - it is completely off topic. 2. It is never good to wander off topic This list exists explicitly to discuss the practical use of CSS and nothing else. There are plenty of other forums where you can discuss such things so it's simply rude to decide to use this list instead and inconvenience the 7000+ subscribers. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic any tips or advise on promoting a website beyond adwords? such as free press release sites, good banner exchanges etc? Please send any such info to Terry directly. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Unclickable password field
At 11:04 + 22/12/06, Barney Carroll wrote: [http://bssh.test.textmatters.com/login/login_form] This is driving me absolutely insane. Under IE6, the password field is not clickable. I'm told this can't be anything other than a CSS issue, and I'm tempted to agree, although nothing I've tried works. Any ideas what's screwing it up? There are two usual causes for this kind of behaviour. 1. Something with a higher z-index is overlaying the element in question (but you just can't see it) 2. position:relative has been declared on some ancestor element and unless pos:rel is applied to some intermediate ancestor, IE hust won't play ball In your case, it looks like 2. Applying position:relative to the div whose class is infoblock seems to fix things. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: ? ? Site building with upload for text ? ?
At 14:29 + 21/12/06, Phil Turner wrote: Thanks David, its sorted. I have to quote on a job and Does anyone know if its possible to build css sites where the client can upload their own text? The simpler the better. I'm afraid that this question isn't really about CSS and so doesn't belong on the list http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic An overview of how CSS-friendly some of the content management systems out there can be found on the css-d wiki at http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssFriendlyCms If anyone has anything to add to that, please write to Phil directly and not on list. This thread has now closed. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Reference a form script in css somehow?
--is there a ways to insert by adding the cose below to jablum's css file? FORM ACTION=formtests2.html INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME=keywords value = input type = SUBMIT name=go Value=Search /FORM Stephanie, I'm afraid you appear to misunderstand what CSS is and what CSS can do. I suggest that you would be much better off taking your question to the jalbum forums where I am sure you will find someone able to provide the assistance you need. If anyone has any further info for Stephanie, can they provide it to her directly offlist. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] One True Layout anchors
At 23:29 -0500 5/12/06, Diona Kidd wrote: Btw, has anyone implemented the One True Layout [1] and anchor links? I thought there might be a javascript or css solution for this short- coming but didn't have an idea on it. I presume you've read the relevant appendix: http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/appendix/equalheightproblems Of further interest, these posts of mine cover how the equal heights technique might be tweaked to get round the anchor link problem (and obviously I still haven't summoned up the energy or time to write it all up properly) http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/77165 http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/79085 Is there any reason you can't use faux columns though? Alex __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Not sure how to do this in CSS.
.square20 { width: 20px; height: 20px; }
.rect1040 { width: 40px; height: 10px; }
#a1 { top: 30px; left: 100px; }
#a2 { top: 50px; left: 50px; width: 20px; height: 50px; }
#a3 { top: 50px; left: 100px; }
Actually, I think that's more complex than needs be
You don't need to specify the widths and heights, just the x and y
coordinates. The lis, being absolutely positioned, will shrink to fit
whatever content is inside them.
http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/millionpixels
And yes, you could even overlay ads making use of suitable z-indexing
if you wanted to sell more complex shapes.
However I wouldn't do it this way. I'd do exactly what the original
onemilliondollarhomepage did and serve it as one big image and
overlay an image map. Because that way you only need to serve one
image rather than, potentially, 100 x 100 = 1. Even very small
that's a lot of back and forth between the server. Not that that has
muh to do with CSS other than to stress that CSS is not a panacea for
all the world's problems and sometimes one should consider other
approaches as being more suitable.
So, who wants to buy an asterisk?
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[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: ASP.NET 2.0 Master Pages
As the design planning forerunners of this project, my colleague and I have begun to look toward ASP.NET 2.0 Master Pages as a solution to designing templates for the entire website. ASP and Master Pages don't have very much to do with CSS, so please take this question somewhere more suitable. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Or you could start here http://www.aspmessageboard.com/ If anyone has anything useful to tell the original poster, can they please do so offlist. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: expanding submenu
Step away from the microphone... ...and relax The relative merits of CSS vs Javascript for creating menus are neither here nor there and the merits of particular javascript libraries are completely off the radar. As this thread has nothing to do with the practical nuts and bolts of CSS, it stops right here. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Consistent Cross platform font size
My apologies to the list - my instinct was wrong and I held off from stepping in earlier to stop this thread. This is getting way off-topic now, so I'm going to leave it at that. If you ever find yourself writing something like the above... ... STOP! DO NOT PASS GO! DO NOT COLLECT 200 CSS-D POINTS. Similarly please don't air your opinions on what developers, clients or users should or shouldn't do - it has nothing to do with CSS. Take it elsewhere. With regards to the whole font issue, there are several pages under the heading Sizing Text on the css-d wiki http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ (for those that can't remember) People who want to know even more should head on over to Felix's site which really is a veritable treasure trove of practical font info http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/wauth1.html Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] CSS/Dreamweaver question
Karen It would be better to ask such a question on a Dreamweaver mailing list, since this is a Dreamweaver-related question and not a CSS one. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_14240 If anyone wants to answer Karen, please do so offlist. Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] CSS/Dreamweaver question
At 10:45 -0700 16/11/06, Michael Stevens wrote: I don't think this is a Dreamweaver question. It looks to me as though she's asking what the difference or benefit is between formatting a paragraph as an h3 element or formatting it by span class=SanText90Centered when h3 and .SanText90Centered are defined identically in the stylesheet. Michael, you are correct. To be honest I couldn't quite get my head around quite what it was Karen was trying to ask. I should have followed that line of enquiry in my response, but I was trying to head off any outbreak of My editor is better than yours and was mindful that my slack-cutting approach had not had the desired effect on the font sizing thread earlier. *sigh* Bad moderator, in your room. Fortunately, Karen did get the answer she was after... __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Triangles with content
At 08:43 -0500 9/11/06, Richard Pierce wrote: Thanks codepo. That would work if I could predefine the color triangles I want. Unfortunately, I can't- the colors need to be a user defineable option. I suppose I should have clarified- the colors of the triangles, as well as the text floating on top- all need to be dynamic. Well perhaps it would be useful for you to post a link to a mockup of how you envisage it with notes explaining what's needed... In the absence of that, is this what you had in mind? http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/slantbox Much though I love pushing CSS to its limits and experimenting, I side with Christian here. If the background image needs to be changed, then create the background image on the fly using ImageMagick (or whatever). Then simply declare the containing element to be display:table-cell - this would have the advantage that the text could be placed in the middle come what may. Of course, IE still doesn't support any of the display:table family, so that's out unless you can use a table for the structure. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN- OFF TOPIC] Re: Blowtorches at the ready...
You're right, of course. But as much as this string isn't about chunks of code per se I think it's extremely important to discuss these issues (I believe you do too?) which I have found to be taboo in the community - but I think this is the place to have it (admin correct me here)... If not, would you be interested in the debate anyway? I'm an admin/moderator and I'm correcting you. The truth is Barney, you are the latest in a long line of people new to css-d who thinks they have a novel and earth shattering perspective on what is I am afraid rather old and tired Holy War territory http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PostingGuidelines http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic (both of which pages you should have read before even thinking about posting to the list) both mention avoiding Tables v Divs http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=TablesVsDivs This list is not for debating. It is for discussing the actual nuts and bolts of using CSS. I'm not saying these issues aren't important and that your opinions about them aren't interesting or worthwhile - just that they have no place here. If you want to say something more about this please add it to the wiki page or, hey, put it your own blog. My apologies to the list for this thread being allowed to continue as long as it has been. My blowtorch is now ready and primed to fry to a frazzle anyone who cares to prolong this torture... Alex css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Specifying CSS definition via HTML attributes IE6
Attribute selectors are part of CSS 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/selector.html#attribute-selectors Whoops - David is absolutely right. It was only Substring matching attribute selectors that got added in CSS3. I plain forgot that attribute selectors predated that. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Specifying CSS definition via HTML attributes IE6
I have definitions like the one below... Which IE6 simply doesn't seem
to acknowledge.
form[id=resourceSelector] .resource.left
{clear: left; margin-right: 2em;}
Any help?
As Christian has just pointed out, IE6 doesn't understand CSS3
attribute selectors (sidenote: IE7 does).
However, your code suggests that you don't need to use attribute
selectors. Since ids are meant to be unique, you can only have
element on the page called 'resourceSelector'. Therefore
#resourceSelector .resource.left
would do just as well.
Of course, if you are using attribute selectors to specify elements
in other ways, eg.
input[type=submit]
then my advice is worthless
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[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: IE7 release
Amazing, they finally installed tabs. Isn't Microsoft extraordinary! ... Maybe it'll run so badly that people will finally stop using IE entirely. ... Or is this going to mean one more web browser to fix things for. I guess Microsoft could keep issuing browsers that were less and less compliant and end up taking up all of everyone's time. ... Here is a relevant link folks on this list might be interested in: Whatever your personal opinions on Microsoft are, please don't vent them on this list. They have nothing to do with CSS. Does anyone know anything about the relationship between this version and CSS and other web standards? There is nothing I could see on the Microsoft introductory site that mentions this. I guess it's not surprising given who Microsoft is, but for most web designers this will be the critical issue. Well you could try checking out the link that's currently included in the footer that gets attached to each and every message this list sends out http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 There you will find both info about what level of conformity to expect from IE7 as well as links to the IE7 teams announcements about such. (Those announcements by the way are on their development blog which has been widely publicised in web design circles) So people, just a word to encourage people to discuss the practical issues that IE7 throws up and to remind you all of the existence of the IE7 page on the wiki. But let's lay off the whole $COMPANY rants please. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: Are CSS Drop-down Menus Searchable
What is the point of website created for visitor if he cannot find it? What is the point of AJAXed menu, if user with JS off or text browser, or not JS enabled voice browser cannot use it? Because we can, should we? But I am not fan of this kind of menu anyway, their usability is low even without AJAX involved. OK, that's enough. This thread has gone far far enough. The usability of css menus is not really on topic. The desirability of ajaxing menus is definitely not. Please continue this discussion off list where it belongs. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Named Anchor and disappearing menu
I did come up with a fix for Gecko gang which I posted here along with reservations http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/77165 Sent to fast, forgot something or two. 1/ the same problems affect recent WebKit (future Safari) builds and the just release Omniweb5.5. 2/ Nobody seems to have a clean picture of what exactly should happen in the case of overflow hidden boxes and anchors. There are some Gecko bugs open on this, but they have been silent for some months. I wonder if a next version of the CSS 2.1 docs doe out soon will provide some answers. Philippe hits the nail on the head. However the answer to 2, now that Opera and Safari have got in line with Gecko and IE's behaviour (as Gecko got in line with IE before), is pretty obviously going to be the current anchors jumping within the hidden block. The specs will be amended to conform to browser behaviour (if necessary - it's arguable that the change from 2 to 2.1 is already sufficent) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: CSS best practice?
At 10:30 +0100 31/8/06, Simon Levy wrote: I have a few questions about how to layout and organise your CSS files A good question but not actually what this list exists for. Please take a look at this page on the css-d wiki. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=MaintainableCss If anyone has anything further to add, please add it to the wiki page rather than on list. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFFTOPIC] Re: Are table-less layouts important - why?
At 13:27 -0700 17/8/06, Thomas Hall wrote: I was asked this question today by a fellow designer - Is there an advantage to the non-use of tables in SEO? As I am not sure how to best answer this question I thought I'd solicit the opinions of you experts. Thanks for any help on this. Tom I'm afraid that this has precisely nothing to do with the practical use/application of CSS which is the stated purpose of this list. What you should do is check out any of the other fine general web development lists http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic or maybe even find an SEO-focused one. If anyone wants to offer Tom any opinions, please do so off list. Responding on list though will be tantamount to asking us moderators to put on our angry hats and retaliate in some disproportionate manner. Alex You wouldn't like me when I'm angry Robinson Css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Forms Best Pratices
At 10:16 -0300 3/8/06, J. Robson wrote: Which the Best Pratices Semantic to HTML FORM (web standards, usability and acessibity) and flexible with CSS? See the answer that Zoe Gillenwater just sent to your previous nearly identical question: At 09:03 -0400 3/8/06, Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: There's no best form layout. Each situation will call for something different. Just make sure you use labels correctly, and fieldsets and legends are a good idea as well. Other than that -- well, take a look at the options: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FormElements There's nothing to add except to point out that your question about semantics and accessibility would be better suited to a list that caters for general web development discussion, since css-d exists to discuss the practical application of css, not markup, semantics, accessibility etc http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic Also, please don't post essentially the same question again if no one has answered your initial post. Just be patient. Wait a couple of days. If no one has replied after that time, think about how you might ask your question better to get the answer you seek. Alex Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] [ADMIN - OFF TOPIC] Re: google shok horror
At 00:06 +0100 28/7/06, Dave Goodchild wrote: Has anyone ever noticed that the Google home page and gmail.com use tables for layout, deprecated elements, frames, font tags, body attributes like vlink and so on and are invalid xhtml? I am shocked (late night browsing with FF web dev toolbar). Can anyone explain why this is the case. I have had four pints of San Miguel but surely I'm not that drunk...or naive? No, just off topic. This thread will stop now. It has not only had no relevance to the reason for this list (the discussion of the practical use of CSS) but it has also seen a fair number of people spout off about their own particular ideological hobby horses. Let this be a lesson to all those who consider posting to css-d when not utterly sober. Crazy CSS experiments fuelled by your intoxication good; Unoriginal hackneyed flamebait rants bad. To reiterate, this thread is dead. Anyone found on the streets of this thread will be unsubscribed on sight. Alex Twitchy Fingers Robinson css-d moderator __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] PIE float calculation
Your calculations are right if, I presume by not adding up you mean that 35 + 65 = 100, but you have had to use -101% to shift the left nav column back in place. That is because of IE's rounding errors when dealing with element sizes set as percentages. Better would be to make #content 64.9% wide and set the neg margin on #left_nav to -99.9% Even better would be not to use the Any Order Columns technique for your layout at all since it's overkill. Since you have only two columns, you can float #content to the right and then float #left_nav to the left. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Are vendor specific properties valid CSS2.1?
My understanding of http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#q4 is that vendor specific properties are perfectly valid (even if to be avoided). However, using them makes the W3's CSS validator go bonkers crazy. Is that just another failing of the validator or am I wrong about the validity issue? __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] One True Layout problems (was Re: holy grail problems)
1/ Based on the most recent WebKit nightly builds (aka future
Safari), adding {position:relative} to each column is a (possible)
work around.
This of course
* is only true at the time of writing (WebKit is not a release
version, but beta software; things may change ...)
* is only tested with all the simple test files we've used. What
happens in a complex construction is left your powers of
investigation :-)
That workaround doesn't cause problems for Gecko based browsers, as
far as I could see.
Of course, applying pos:rel to the columns then means that you can't
position elements inside them with regard to the containing element.
If you don't need to do that, then fine.
My workaround is along these lines:
Absolutely position a very tall element at the bottom of each column
using generated content which overflow:hidden clips
http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/equalheightssfariidea
Obviously it won't work in Mozilla since it doesn't allow for
absolute positioning of generated content...
If you don't need to deal with anchors or its failure in Mozilla or
IE, this is actually a better method than the original since it
allows for background images to be reliably positioned elsewhere than
just at the top.
2/ I wouldn't be too surprised if Safari (Webkit) supports XBL
bindings as well. D.Hyatt was a co-author of the original Mozilla
docs. Although the test file didn't work.
Well yes. The CSS Standards editors are also adamant that XBL is the
correct way of dealing with such things, just as XBL is how we should
reorder semantically ordered columns for visual display.
That still leaves the issue of how to handle javascript being turned
off and XBL's not even being applied and the more practical one that
Safari doesn't support it yet. And as far as I know there's no word
on when if ever Opera will.
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Re: [css-d] One True Layout problems (was Re: holy grail problems)
Thank you for your reply. The one true layout is really a beautiful solution Thank you. Of course it's really three separate solutions for three separate problems. And there is no Keyser Soze and there is no One True Layout ;) I can see how the anchor was overlooked. I showed you a scaled down page but I actually already built about 10 real pages before noticing. Ouch. Did you miss the Stop Press warnings saying there were problems with the technique? I ask in all seriousness since I will think about how to make it clearer that the appendix exists and that people should read it before using the techniques. Regardless of the anchor fix, I think there are too many mac users that still use IE 5 (I know many that do) so I will find a solution that will work there also. If you can live with scrollbars, you can use the equal height column technique described in the OTL article for Mac IE 5. If you must have visual equivalence and no extraneous scrollbars, then no you must look elsewhere. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
