CS: Target-Remington 700 faulty safety
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] A further article in today's New Zealand Herald, front page no less! David. NZ Herald 26-2-01 Huge arms recall leaves frontline police without rifles 26.02.2001 By ALISON HORWOOD and NZPA More than 800 police rifles have been withdrawn from service because of reports that they can discharge without anyone pulling the trigger once the safety catch is released. The Remington model 700 .223 calibre rifles are issued to general-duty officers called to an incident involving arms before the armed offenders squad has arrived. National police operations manager Superintendent Neville Matthews is heading an investigation into the rifles. He said the recall was a precaution following an article in a deerstalking news-letter and debate overseas. The article in the New Zealand Deer Stalkers Association newsletter last month said that model 700 had been at the centre of more than 80 lawsuits against Remington in the past 20 years. In one case seven years ago, the company paid $17 million in damages to a Texan man whose firearm accidentally discharged and shot him in the foot. In another case, in Montana, a 9-year-old was shot dead by his mother as she was unloading the firearm. The article describes the Remington 700 as one of the most popular rifles in the world with more than 3 million sold since it went on the market in 1962. It also quotes a representative from Remington saying that model 700 was safe and reliable. The Remington website has special safety instructions for model 700 users. "Even when the safety switch is in the S [locked] position, careless handling can cause the firearm to fire." It also says that despite the worldwide decline in fatal firearm accidents, Remington is concerned about reports of accidental firings of model 700 and other bolt-action rifles. Two accidental discharges of police Remingtons have been reported in New Zealand in the past two years. Neither was in a tactical situation and no one was injured. "We are not saying the weapon is faulty. But issues have arisen and we are taking precautions until we get more details," said Mr Matthews. "If the firearm discharges when you don't want it to, there could be tragic consequences." The rifles are issued to police called to incidents involving arms before the armed offenders squad can be mobilised and for emergencies such as shooting escaped livestock on motorways. Mr Matthews said that because the withdrawal left general-duty police without rifles, the squad had been placed on a higher level of readiness. General-duty staff now had only 9mm Glock pistols available. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Mick North off to Africa
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Sunday Times. 25-2-2001 Dunblane father in crusade to Africa's child soldiers Jenny Shields THE father of a child murdered at a Dunblane primary school in 1996 is to travel to Africa to campaign against child soldiers. Mick North, whose daughter was one of 16 children shot dead with their teacher by a deranged gunman during a gym class, will undertake the harrowing trip to draw attention to the recruitment of children as young as seven into militias in developing countries. He will arrive in Uganda this week as part of an Oxfam campaign, shortly before the fifth anniversary of his five-year-old daughter Sophie's killing. Despite Foreign Office warnings against travelling to the Kitgum, Moroto and Kotido districts of northeast Uganda, North will spend a week visiting these lawless areas and meeting local people who have lost relatives to the gunmen or who have been forced into fighting for them. North, a widower who has spent much of the past five years campaigning both here and overseas for tighter gun laws, is modest about his latest quest. "It's another challenge," he said. Accompanied by Oxfam staff, he will also visit an arms market in Karenga and talk to schoolchildren about the loss of his daughter and their experience of guns. Uganda is in turmoil, especially in the areas around Kitgum and Kotido, where a number of groups, armed principally with AK-47 rifles smuggled across the border from Sudan, operate with impunity. The insurgency has had a devastating effect on local communities, with thousands of people being displaced and hundreds killed and injured. According to Oxfam, in the past 10 years more than 11,000 children and adults have been abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) in Kitgum. The youngsters are trained as child soldiers and some are exchanged for guns in Sudan. Young girls are raped and boys have been ritually sacrificed. During his tour, North will hear how many youngsters have been killed and how survivors are often exposed to abuse, hunger and starvation. Education and health services are basic and the economy is in tatters, leaving people unemployed and frustrated. Oxfam says the conflicts fuelled by small arms have resulted in "wanton loss of lives, untold suffering, the destruction of property and infrastructure and abuse of human rights". The charity, under its Cut the Conflict campaign, is working to control the gun trafficking and access to light weapons. Initially, North was worried about how he would feel surrounded by so many children: some of the visits are to refugee camps and playground sounds can still upset him. North will also face significant health risks in rural Uganda: hepatitis, malaria, meningococcal meningitis, polio and typhoid are all common diseases. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Remington 700 faulty safety
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] An item in The Dominion (Wellington, New Zealand) today ( 24-Feb,) reads as follows: Police Withdraw 800 rifles after fault found. More than 800 police rifles have been withdrawn from use after police found some of the guns had malfunctioned. The .223 Remington Model 7 rifle, used by general frontline staff for firearms training, was withdrawn immediately after some of the guns fired without the trigger being pulled. Assistant Police Commissioner Paul Fitzharris said last that to protect public and police safety he ordered the withdrawal. Police were taking urgent action to solve the problem and would review the situation next week. National Police Operations manager Neville Matthews said last night the malfunction was detected on a training exercise. When dirt or dust got into the trigger mechanism the gun automatically fired when the safety catch was released. The gun had not malfunctioned on an operation, he said. -- David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Siberia's top wolf hunter
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] She favours an SKS Russian-made carbine accurate to 2,000 metres, and a Russian shotgun in case of surprise attacks by bears. --- Accurate to 2,000 metres? 200 maybe! I bought two brand new Chinese SKS's (UKL 60 each) here in NZ and with Norinco ammo off a sandbag neither of them would group much better than 3 inches at 50 yards! Accurate? I don't think so!! David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Remington 700 faulty safety
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Litigation is not my intent, however, myself as a safety professional, I feel certain ethics are involved. "Certain ethics" !? Like trading the gun on to another unsuspecting buyer? That doesn't quite tie up with the definition of "ethics" in my book. David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Proliferation of Small Arms
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Perhaps someone should remind Robin Cook and his erstwhile colleagues at the UN that, in the last recorded case of genocide, in Rwanda, the large majority of the 1 million or so people murdered were beaten to death with sticks or cut to pieces with machetes or similar heavy duty knives." In 1991, shortly after we arrived in Nairobi, my wife and I went to what used, in Britain, to be called an Ironmongers shop to buy a panga (machete). We were shown several poorly made local items and some from China and then the salesman said "but if you want best quality then we have these"... and produced a well made and absolutely lethal looking weapon of Provenance Birmingham, England! Due to the cost I expect the majority of Rawandan machetes were local or Chinese but it's quite possible that the better off murdering thugs were armed with British made weapons. I wonder if Mr Cook is aware of this? Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-gun trafficker sentenced
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2098 Wednesday 21 February 2001 Pardoned drug dealer jailed for selling guns and ammo A CONVICTED drug dealer, who served only 11 months of an 18-year term after receiving a royal pardon, was jailed yesterday for his part in gun-trafficking. John Haase received 13 years after pleading guilty to selling illegal guns and ammunition, including an Uzi submachine gun and Magnum revolver. Haase, 51, was told by Judge Bryn Holloway at Liverpool Crown Court that without the police intervention the weapons and ammunition would have found their way into the hands of dangerous people. Haase, who ran a security firm, of Clubmoor, Liverpool, received seven years for gun-running and six years after pleading guilty to a second charge which cannot be reported for legal reasons. As he was led from the dock, Haase shouted at the judge: "You have had me over. You and the counsel. I never pleaded guilty on this basis." Heath Grimes, 26, of Wavertree, Liverpool, was jailed for four years after admitting transferring the guns and ammunition. A third man, Walter Kirkwood, 46, of Renton, Dumbarton, Scotland, was given a three and a half-year term after pleading guilty to attempting to transfer the weapons north of the border. Haase was previously freed from prison in July 1996 after serving only 11 months of his 18-year sentence for heroin smuggling and spending two years on remand. His sentence had been reduced to five years on the advice of the then Home Secretary, Michael Howard, who exercised the royal prerogative. Lord Carlile QC, defending, said yesterday that Haase had given a huge amount of information to the authorities. The then Home Secretary, not a man "given to bouts of light handedness or light headedness", had recommended the use of royal prerogative on the basis of the information. David Steer QC, prosecuting, said Customs officers bugged the headquarters of Haase's security firm, Big Brother, in Great Howard Street, Kirkdale. Officers filmed a meeting outside a Liverpool cafe between Grimes and Kirkwood. They watched as Grimes passed a sports bag through a car window and followed the vehicle to Kirkby where it stopped at traffic lights. Armed police surrounded the vehicle and recovered the bag, containing an Uzi submachine gun, Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum revolver and rounds of ammunition. Mr Steer said Haase was arrested more than a month later in October 1999 when he arrived at Liverpool Lime Street Station from London. Grimes was detained at his home in Liverpool a day later. A search of a Big Brother office in Liverpool's Stanley Market uncovered more weaponry including a double-barrelled sawn-off shotgun, a Colt full-loading pistol and ammunition. In mitigation, Lord Carlile said the gun selling was a "one-off, opportunistic transaction to a specified customer". He said: "John Haase has a certain notoriety on Merseyside. It is all too easy to assume that everything he does is somewhere near the top of the Premier League. If I can be forgiven . . . it is more akin to the position of Everton than to the position of Liverpool at the present time." Commenting afterwards, Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Hogan-Howe, of Merseyside Police, said the force was determined to take guns off the streets. He said: "In recent weeks, the force has shown its commitment to tackling firearms-related crime through high visibility policing operations. This case highlights the good work that is being carried out by the force behind the scenes and that we are unable to talk about." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Getting the guns off the street!!
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2094 Saturday 17 February 2001 300 weapons seized at police armourer's home By David Sapsted POLICE raided the home of their force's armourer and seized almost 300 weapons, including machineguns and grenade launchers. The raid was carried out by officers in six vehicles, accompanied by Army bomb squad officers. A police source said they found "enough weapons to start a war" at the semi-detached cottage in Pakenham, near Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, where Richard Ashley, 55, and his wife Denise have lived for 30 years. Mr Ashley, a licensed firearms dealer, is the official armourer for the Norfolk and Suffolk forces. His contract has been suspended. The raid is believed to be part of an inquiry into overseas arms sales. Mr Ashley, who was freed on police bail without charge, said yesterday: "I have done nothing wrong, so I am not worried." His arrest meant that he was unable to act in a village production of Treasure Island. One villager said: "Richard is a first class chap. You do not get to work for the police unless you are a responsible person." -- If he is a police armourer he almost certainly has Section 5 authority so there is an excellent chance he has done nothing wrong. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Emigrate!
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't I recall some recent Govt. report saying that transfers of semi-auto rifles should be banned and all long guns registered? Steve. True, but the select committee hasn't reported yet, due at the end of this month. If any new bill attempts to register all long guns it is likely to be about as successful as C 68 in Canada. Shooters here are well organised and thanks to COLFO we have a very effective lobbying organisation whose integrity and expertise is proven and which is widely respected. We can always make use of the extra lobbying support that an influx of shooters from overseas would bring though! David. -- Well Switzerland apparently is going to have a referendum on joining the EU sometime this year. I think learning German might be the better way to go if they do! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Emigrate!
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Obviously it would be great if everyone agreed to actively oppose all proposed restrictions, but that seems a long way away._ Derek Bernard -- When the only thing left legal is air rifles! Steve. --- Let's face it shooting sports are doomed in Britain. Even if you manage to carry on in some form or other you'll be so bound up in stupid rules and red tape that all the fun of it will have gone. Now the good news. The New Zealand Government is about to ease the immigration rules here again and is actively seeking people with a trade or qualifications. Pistol shooting is flourishing here and handguns are cheap. Rifle shooting, no nonsense about what calibre rifle the cops will let you have.You get a licence and go and buy what YOU want. If you want two, four or ten rifles you just buy them, rifles are cheap here. Shotguns you name it you can shoot it. Great clubs all over the country you can shoot clays every weekend if you want. Don't just sit there moaning get onto the NZ High Commission and find out about emmigrating. You have nothing to lose and your sport to regain. Another five years of Blair and Britain will be finished utterly. The New Zealand firearms community welcomes enthusiatic and committed shooters! David. -- You ought to be working for them going by that lot! ;) Don't I recall some recent Govt. report saying that transfers of semi-auto rifles should be banned and all long guns registered? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Winston Churchill....
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...who was the Home Secretary who introduced measures to control the ownership of pistols! Yes, I'd forgotten that actually. Still, no one is perfect and today it is widely acknowledged that Churchill made some appalling errors of judgement during his career. He was a brilliant, inspirational orator though. David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-More stupidity in America
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Is a thought a dangerous thing? I know it's not entirely in context but Winston Churchill had this to say and it is as well that we take time occasionally to remember the "Lions Roar." Regards, David. .You see these dictators on their pedestals surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police. They are afraid of words, of thoughts. Words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home, all the more powerful because they are forbidden. These terrify them. A little mouse, a little tiny mouse of thought appears in the room and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic. They make frantic efforts to bar out thoughts and words. They are afraid of the working of the human mind. A state of society where men cannot speak their mind, where children denounce their parents to the police, where a businessman or small shop keeper ruins his competitor by telling tales about his private opinions, such a state cannot long endure if it is brought continually into contact with the healthy outside world. The light of civilised progress with its tolerances and co-operation, with its dignities and joys has often been blotted out but I hold that we have now, at last, got far enough ahead of barbarism to control it and to avert it if only we realise what is afoot and make up our minds in good time. Is this a call to war? Does anyone pretend that preparations for resistance against aggression amounts to the unleashing of war? I declare that it is the sole guarantee of peace, the finest and the surest prospect of peace! Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve/Norman, I believe that Steve has had some discussions with John Howat who is Executive Director of New Zealand's Council of Licenced Firearms Owners and one of NZ's leading experts in the field of firearms legislation as well as no mean campaigner for the rights and privileges of the law abiding shooter. COLFO has been undeniably very successful in drawing together a variety of shooting groups under the one umbrella and campaigning for ALL shooters of whatever discipline. Is it not long past time that the UK shooting groups put aside their petty differences and form a similar organisation before the shooting sports in Britain disappear forever down the plughole of apathy and infighting? COLFO's web site is at www.colfo.org.nz for any who are interested. Regards, David. -- We already have such an organisation, the British Shooting Sports Council. I think the point Norman is making is that we need one association. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Canadian radio programme in Real Audio
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In case you missed it, the 2 hr show is available in Real Audio at > > http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/checkup/archive/2001/010121_ccc.ram Having listened to an hour of this I now understand why The Canadian nation get so much stick for being the most tedious, boring, dull and inconsequential on the planet. Sorry you found it so tedious, boring and dull. I haven't lived in England for quite a long time now having taken my guns to somewhere I could still own handguns and semi autos and hunt and shoot any day of the week. I guess I must have forgotten how superb and riveting are all the British radio and TV programmes dealing with firearms legislation and the trampling of the rights of the law abiding by a dictatorial government and its increasingly paramilitary police force. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Canadian radio programme in Real Audio
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have a media player (I am using the standard free download Real Player) this radio programme is quite interesting and gives an update and debate - much better than the usual "talkback" type show - on the situation in Canada. You can listen to it whilst doing other jobs on your machine. DM Subject: Re: Cross Country Check Up TV Broadcast This show was videotaped by Access Communications. Part 1 to be broadcast in Saskatchewan on TV Channel 7 Monday Jan. 29 at 7:00 pm. Part 2 is Tuesday Jan. 30 at 7:00 pm. In case you missed it, the 2 hr show is available in Real Audio at http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/checkup/archive/2001/010121_ccc.ram Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-The Fox's Prophecy, D.W.Nash, 1870
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This was in a UK newspaper yesterday, don't have further details. DM A Few extracts from D. W. Nash's 1870 The Fox's Prophecy: 'For not upon these hills alone, the doom of sport shall fall, o'er the broad face of England creeps, the shadow on the wall. 'Time-honoured creeds and ancient faith, the Altar and the Crown, Lordship's hereditary right, before that tide go down. 'Base churls shall mock the mighty names, writ on the roll of time; Religion shall be held a jest, and loyalty a crime. 'No word of prayer, no hymn of praise sound in the village school; the people's education Utilitarians rule. 'The homes where love and peace should dwell fierce politics shall vex; and unsexed woman strive to prove herself the coarser sex. 'The statesmen that should rule the realm coarse demagogues displace; The glory of a thousand years shall end in foul disgrace. 'Trade shall be held the only good and gain the sole device, the statesman's maxim shall be peace, and peace at any price. 'Her army and her navy Britain shall cast aside, soldiers and ships are costly things, defence an empty pride. 'The footsteps of the Invader then England's shore shall know, while home-bred traitors give the hand to England's every foe. 'Disarmed before the foreigner, the knee shall humbly bend, and yield the treasures that she lacked the wisdom to defend.' Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-More stupidity in England
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ISSUE 2078 Thursday 1 February 2001 Man fined for waving brush at teenagers By Maurice Weaver A LORRY driver who waved a handbrush out of his car window at a group of rowdy teenagers and shouted "Shut up or I'm going to shoot you", was fined L200 yesterday for frightening them. Russell Dyer had complained to police on numerous occasions about teenagers damaging cars and property on the small private housing estate in Riddings, Derbys, where he lived, magistrates in Ilkeston were told. But his "act of frustration" led to the youngsters reporting him to the police. He was arrested and his home was searched for firearms. Paul James, defending, said that as Dyer drove past about 10 youngsters on November 30 he was shouted at and heard something "flick" against the bodywork of his car. Mr James said: "It was in a sense of frustration that he picked up the handbrush." The brush was used by Dyer to sweep out his lorry. "He does not make a habit of keeping a brush in his car to look like a handgun. It just happened to be there," said Mr James. Dyer's wife was in hospital at the time and he felt stressed, he said. The youngsters ran off but decided to report Dyer to the police, the court was told. They told officers that they were very frightened and said Dyer had waved "a five-inch black pistol". Dyer admitted threatening behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress. He was also ordered to pay L55 prosecution costs. -- He was lucky not to have been shot by the cops before they searched his house. I wonder if the powers that be are beginning to get just a little concerned that it is becoming an easy way for anyone with any sort of a grudge can cause huge inconvenience, not to say danger, to perfectly innocent people simply by saying, even anonymously, that they may have a gun? On the other hand maybe it's a convenient way of displaying "threatening behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress" to the ordinary citizenry to reinforce the doctrine of "total control" over any situation that is such an important part of their training? DM -- In fairness to the police I don't think you can criticise their response in this incident. He did threaten to shoot the kids. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Hunters as Conservationists
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have all seen articles in the press decrying hunters and hunting as blood thirsty rambos slaughtering poor defenceless animals with no thought to the future etc. Here's a couple of articles that put a different perspective. DM http://www.wheretoshoot.org HUNTING FEATURE ARTICLE: Word Count: 687 OUR UN-ENDANGERED SPECIES Perhaps no other segment of society has a greater awareness of civilization's impact on our natural resources than the hunter. It is the hunters of America who have carried the fight for wildlife conservation through the instigation of regulated hunting seasons and bag limitsreforms designed to protect our wildlife resources from overharvest. All species of wildlife that are hunted are secure today and most are far more numerous than they were before the turn of the century. The helping hand of the sportsman has increased the numbers of many kinds of wildlife to record proportions and has restored many species of game to parts of the country that had been stripped of native wildlife by commercial exploitation and unchecked development. As recently as 1900, the total white-tailed deer population of North America was estimated at about 500,000, following a study by the U. S. Biological Survey. Nearly every state in the nation had closed its deer hunting season, and a good number need not have bothered since there were so few deer to hunt. Massachusetts counted about 200 out on Cape Cod, New York claimed about 7,000 in the Adirondacks and Pennsylvania had a small herd centered in Potter County. In Delaware and New Jersey, deer were considered practically extinct. In contrast, by the early 1960's practically every state in the union allowed some form of whitetail deer hunting. Our nation's whitetail deer population is now estimated at around 18 million and today many of the largest trophy bucks are found in midwestern farming states which were a generation or so ago wholly without deer. In many states, expanding deer herds have created traffic hazards and caused crop damage. In 1987, the total legal deer harvest in the U.S. was more than 4.3 million, more than eight times the entire deer population of North America at the turn of the century. Only 45 years ago, the total U.S. population of pronghorn antelope was about 12,000. This species, which at one time may have outnumbered the buffalo, could not in 1920 be hunted legally anywhere on the continent. Today, however, there are more than 1 million and the pronghorn is once again a legal trophy for hunters in a dozen or more western states. The restoration of habitat, restocking of range and biological attention that protected and increased the antelope population were due mainly to the efforts and dollars of the American sportsman. Today there are more than 500,000 elk, or wapiti, in the nation, 12 times as many as there were in 1907 when elk were common only in and around Yellowstone National Park. More than 800,000 are now to be found in 16 states, and most western states have surpluses that can be hunted. Overpopulation on some ranges permits local restocking and, in Yellowstone National Park where the control effect of public hunting is prohibited, the elk multiplied so fast that they are destroying their range. The wild turkey, which had also disappeared from much of its native range early in this century, has now been restored in many states by hunter dollars. The national population of wild turkeys has increased from 97,000 in 1952 to over 4 million today; and 41 states can now offer spring and/or fall hunting for this traditional table trophy. And so on down the list. The fact is that no game bird or animal is endangered by hunting. Rather it is the helping hand of the sportsman that will protect and conserve these free roaming species of wildlife for the enjoyment of future generations. -- HUNTING FEATURE ARTICLE: Word Count: 687 HUNTERS PAY FOR CONSERVATION Dating as far back as the 1800s, sportsmen have paid the lion's share for conservation. Through license fees and special excise taxes on hunting and fishing equipment, sportsmen currently contribute a staggering $3.5 million each day. The knowledge of how this money is gathered and how it is spent for the benefit of wildlife contributes greatly to an understanding of the overall conservation picture, and the hunter's important relationship to it. License fees are the largest portion of the hunter's contribution to state fish and game department,s presently furnishing them with some $950 million a year. Because of the many ways license fees are used for the benefit of all wildlife, the purchase of a hunting license, whether by a hunter or non-hunter, is one of the best contributions that can be made today for conservation. A highli
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] No reason to expect that the situation is any different here. DM ISSUE 2077 Wednesday 31 January 2001 Cats are the 'worst' killers By Charles Clover, Environment Editor BRITAIN'S nine million cats are the main predators of wildlife, killing an estimated 275 million animals a year, a survey said yesterday. Their victims include rare water voles and dormice and the declining population of house sparrows, the Mammal Society said. The survey, carried out by the society's youth group, Mammalaction, said the total was made up of 200 million mammals, 55 million birds, 10 million reptiles and amphibians and 10 million other creatures including worms and moths. Michael Woods, the society's vice-chairman and the survey co-ordinator, said that cats gave "considerable cause for concern" on conservation grounds. He said: "Cats range up to 0.6 of a mile away each night and have a territory of 70 acres. Many owners think that when their cat brings home a mouse it is suppressing the rodent population, but cats are killing animals on a much wider scale." Professor Stephen Harris, of Bristol University, chairman of the society, said: "As there are 26 times more cats than foxes and six times more cats than all wild terrestrial predators combined, no one can doubt that cats can be a very serious problem for wildlife. However, no one wishes to play down the joy and comfort that cats can bring to their owners." The survey, called Look What the Cat Brought In, suggests a number of ways to reduce the killing. One is that cat owners should feed garden birds. Cats in such gardens kill fewer birds, probably because more food means more birds and the birds need to spend less time searching for food and are therefore less exposed. Mr Woods said: "Cats wearing bells and those that were kept in at night kill fewer mammals. Bells give a warning and wild mammals are mainly nocturnal, so keeping cats in cuts down on mousing time." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Canadian survey
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:07:13 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Gun law creates 320,000 Canadian outlaws PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: THU JAN.25,2001 PAGE: A1 (ILLUS) BYLINE: BRIAN LAGHI CLASS: National News EDITION: Metro DATELINE: Ottawa ON _ Gun law creates 320,000 Canadian outlaws _ BRIAN LAGHI With a report from Jill Mahoney in Edmonton. Sources: GPC Research OTTAWA At least 320,000 gun owners in Canada are in breach of the country's new firearms law, according to calculations based on a new federal survey on gun ownership. The survey for the Canadian Firearms Registry, obtained by The Globe and Mail, found that there are 2.46 million firearm owners in Canada, a substantial drop from the 3.3 million under previous government estimates. Government officials estimated last night that about two million owners applied for licences prior to the Jan. 1 deadline, leaving a shortfall of about 460,000. But federal officials were quick to point out that the survey also found that about 140,000 owners intend to disable or divest themselves of their guns, reducing the licensing shortfall to about 320,000. "This survey verifies what we've been saying all along," said Farah Mohamed, a spokeswoman for Justice Minister Anne McLellan. "We have a very clear idea of the number of gun owners and a very positive rate of compliance and these numbers indicate a serious flaw in the numbers being put forward by those who are opposed to the gun-licensing system." Some anti-gun-registry groups have suggested that at least half of Canadian gun owners were prepared not to purchase licences. Indeed, the government estimated a figure of 3.3 million firearm owners, a number it culled from the estimates of 10 years of previous studies. Ms. Mohamed said the new figures indicate an 87-per-cent compliance rate for the new law. The National Firearms Association accused the federal government yesterday of fudging its figures on gun ownership. "Where does this end? I don't think they've got a clue how many firearms owners there are in Canada," said Wally Butts, national vice-president of communications. "That's the problem, it's gotten to be virtually a joke because they keep changing their numbers, changing their perspective on it." The government's survey of 6,145 households across the country found that 17 per cent, or an estimated two million Canadian households, own at least one firearm. The 17-per-cent figure represents a decline of almost a third from the previous 24 per cent of firearm-owning households. The study, produced for the government by GPC Research, is estimated to be accurate to within 1.25 per cent, 19 times out of 20, and was conducted between Oct. 18 and Nov. 30 of last year. The survey also found that guns are most popular in Canada's North, where 41 per cent of homes have firearms. It is followed by Atlantic Canada at 28 per cent and Saskatchewan at 25 per cent. The province with the fewest firearm-owning households is Ontario, with 13 per cent. Ontario, however, has the most owners, with 700,000. The survey also found that Alberta, the province that launched a constitutional challenge to the law and that is politically identified as the most vehemently opposed to it, may not have as many gun owners as previously thought. The study found that 17 per cent of Alberta households own guns, a reduction of 11 percentage points from the previous surveys used by the study. "Firearm ownership over the last 10 years is declining, most notably in the urban areas of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta," the survey says. Thirteen per cent of urban homes in the country own firearms, while 30 per cent of rural dwellings have guns. Ms. Mohamed said that, while the government would like to see full compliance, it is pleased with the rate of applications being sent in. The survey found that firearms usage has decreased in the past few years, with most owners now saying they use their guns once a year or less. Ninety-eight per cent of firearm owners were aware of the Jan. 1 deadline to purchase a licence, the survey estimates. It estimates the vast majority of firearms owners -- about 87 per cent -- are male. Fifty-one per cent are between the ages of 35 and 54. The number of firearms owners younger than 35 has dropped by about 40 per cent, and gun owners have a slightly higher than average household income. All firearms must be logged with the registry by 2003. Regional breakdown _ Percentage of firearm-owning households in Canada, in 2000 Atlantic 28 Quebec 18 Ontario 13 Manitoba 21 Saskatchewan 25 Alberta 17 British Columbia 15 Nor
CS: Pol-Canada Police perspective
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:19:34 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Editorial: POLICING PERSPECTIVE PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2001.01.26 SECTION: Editorial/opinion PAGE: 14 COLUMN: Editorial _ POLICING PERSPECTIVE _ Any threat made against a police officer is a threat against society. Anything we can reasonably do to make our police more secure - particularly when they're being threatened by criminal gangs through the vulnerability of their homes and families - we should. Allowing them to register their cars through their stations rather than homes (i.e., no home addresses) and properly lighting, securing and fencing police stations, for example, should be automatic. We also believe any officer under genuine threat should be allowed to take his or her gun home, or, more accurately, to carry it off-duty, since cops can already take their guns home if they store them safely. Point is, if we trust police to use guns on the job, surely we should also trust them to use them properly to protect themselves at home. Conversely, if the force is worried about allowing an officer under threat to take a gun home, why is he or she a cop in the first place? That said, it does seem a bit contradictory for the police, who advise the rest of us against keeping guns in our homes for personal protection and to rely on them instead, to then argue that when it comes to protecting themselves, they need their guns at home. The police, after all, are not the only citizens who may be confronted by threats, nor the only ones who are (or can be) trained to use firearms. We aren't advocating everyone arm themselves in their homes, but we are saying the idea of using a gun for personal protection, at least in some circumstances, does appear to have some merit. We should also keep in mind that being threatened goes with the territory of being an officer. Surely, it's not entirely by accident that we're hearing more concerns about gangs and threats just as the new police budget is being proposed. After all, budget time is typically when police emphasize crime and the hazards of policing. We do sympathize with Chief Julian Fantino's fury yesterday when NOW printed a picture of his home and its location. The story was about city officials who live outside Toronto, and Fantino, as NOW noted, is listed in the phone book. Still, showing his home and naming the town and street when police are worried about threats by gangs, is irresponsible. That said, there is still a need for some perspective. The police can and do need society's support, but that doesn't mean uncritically approving every budget item they request, nor letting our support cloud our judgment in areas such as civilian oversight. Part of keeping perspective is not mixing apples and oranges. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-NFA rejects survey findings
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] PROGRAM: THE WORLD AT SIX NETWORK: CBC-R DATE: 2001.01.25 TIME: 18:00:00 ET END: 18:30:00 ET GUEST: GREG RASMUSSEN, Reporter; ANTOINETTE FLUVIAN, CanadianFirearms Centre; LAY LAYCOCK, The National Firearms Association; HOST: RUSS GERMAIN AND BARBARA SMITH _ Gun lobby rejects findings of poll on gun ownership _ BARBARA SMITH: The largest gun lobby group in the country has rejected the findings of a poll on gun ownership. The National Firearms Association says there are many more gun owners than the polls suggest. The survey was commissioned by the Canadian Firearms Centre. The results show that nearly ninety percent of gun owners are in compliance with Ottawa's new gun law. A revised firearms act came into effect at the start of this year. It requires all gun owners to get a licence and register their weapons with the federal government. Greg Rasmussen reports. GREG RASMUSSEN (Reporter): The number of gun owners in Canada has long been central to the debate over gun control. This poll is important because it's claimed to be the most accurate count yet. It says there are 2.3 million gun owners across the country. That result is based on a survey of six thousand Canadians. Mary Antoinette Fluvian is in charge of the Canadian Firearms Centre. She says more than two million people have applied for firearms licences. Combined with the poll results, that means eighty-seven percent of gun owners decided to stay within the law. ANTOINETTE FLUVIAN (Canadian Firearms Centre): The numbers in which Canadians have come forward, when you made it easy enough for them to do it, I think is a testament to the kinds of values we hold as Canadians. RASMUSSEN: But the gun lobby says the numbers are a fabrication put forward by the government so they can claim success. Lay Laycock is with The National Firearms Association. He says many gun owners would not tell the truth if they were phoned up and asked if they had guns in the house. RAY LAYCOCK (The National Firearms Association): They're going to anonymously telephone people and get the truth. Let's not live in dreamland, please. RASMUSSEN: Laycock says there could be as many as five million Canadians who haven't applied for a licence. But one expert puts the number somewhere in the middle. Gary Mauser is a criminologist with Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. He says the government's latest estimate is probably too low while the gun lobby's is too high. Greg Rasmussen, CBC News, Calgary. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Canadian gun registry fails to recognise criminals
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20010119/442755.html Gun safety, indeed National Post The goal of Canada's half-billion dollar gun registry is public safety. By requiring gun owners to provide references and submit to a detailed background check, the logic goes, potential criminals will be weeded out. Toward that aim, the Firearms Act requires every gun owner to fill out a personal questionnaire: Have you ever been depressed? Do you have a drinking problem? How about an emotional problem? Have you ever been reported to a social services agency for a "conflict in your home or elsewhere?" Have you lost a job any time in the past two years? Have you had a "breakdown of a significant relationship?" Any "Yes" answer has to be explained. During the first two years of the gun registry's operation, the registry's 1,500 bureaucrats (of whom only about half actually process applications) handled an average of 18,000 applications per month -- about one application per case worker per business day. Such slow progress is understandable. If safety is the goal, then, obviously, one would expect that each application is carefully scrutinized. But for Anne McLellan, the Minister of Justice, the process was too slow. For each application the registry processed, three more piled up. By Jan. 1, more than one million applications, all dutifully filled out and with cheques attached, were sitting unopened in the gun registry's filing cabinets. Something had to give -- either Ottawa would have to hire thousands of extra paper-pushers, the Jan. 1 implementation of the law would have to be delayed or the time spent on background checks would have to be cut back. At first, Ms. McLellan chose the second option, pushing the deadline back to July 1. But even that six-month delay would only have cleared 110,000 more applications at the bureaucrats' one-a-day pace. So employees were ordered to speed things up. According to David Austin, the gun registry's spokesman, the same bureaucrats who averaged 18,000 files a month for two years have miraculously pumped through 600,000 files in the past month. The same case workers who had been spending a day on each form were now blazing through them in 10 minutes flat. How well does the accelerated system work? According to Brian Drader, the National Firearms Association's Manitoba director, none too well. As an experiment, he submitted an application, providing the names of two men charged with crimes -- including one man who allegedly threatened the Prime Minister -- as his character references. Mr. Drader received his licence. Mr. Austin says this assembly-line pace is only a temporary stop-gap to eliminate the backlog. Maybe so, but the registry will require no further information from applicants it has already processed. According to Mr. Austin, the 600,000 applications churned through since December are in the clear: No further background checks will be conducted. Though the gun registry has been unpopular in rural Canada and extraordinarily costly, Ms. McLellan always justified the project as a boon to public safety. Now that her day-long background checks have become 10-minute rubber-stamping sessions, and alleged criminals pass as character references, that argument has been debunked. One can only wonder what excuse she will use now. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Living in fear....of gun control laws.
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1/17/01 11:20 a.m. Living in Fear . . . . of gun-control laws. By Dave Kopel, Dr. Paul Gallant, & Dr. Joanne Eisen of the Independence Institute December 26, 2000, and another mass murder, as 42-year-old Michael McDermott went on a rampage in Wakefield, Massachusetts. Armed with a rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun, McDermott killed seven of his co-workers. Predictably, another call for "tougher" gun-control laws, and a renewed media blitz designed to promote the fear of armed neighbors in America. In a recently published Epidemiology article, Community Firearms, Community Fear, three Harvard public-health professors provide the rationale for more repressive gun laws, even if the gun laws do nothing to reduce crime. You see, restricting the rights of gun owners will supposedly make other people feel safer: "most Americans are not impervious to the psychological effects of guns in their community, and that, by a margin of more than 3 to 1, more guns make others in the community feel less safe rather than more safe." This is a notably explicit statement of the operating philosophy of the gun-prohibition lobbies: Guns are bad; reducing the number of guns is good, no matter who is disarmed. (The only exception is for government employees and security guards, for whom gun ownership is alright.) This year, Congress and most state legislatures will see lots and lots of fear-mongering against gun owners. The gun-prohibition lobbies portray defensive gun owners as incompetent nitwits. What are the real odds of firearm-wielding neighbors shooting someone by mistake? According to criminologists Gary Kleck and Don B. Kates, "erroneous killings by civilians total only about 30 per year . . . compare[d] to the police who erroneously kill 5 to 11 times more innocent people each year." How safe did the unarmed victims of Michael McDermott feel in their gun-free workplace sitting ducks who could only cower in fear, waiting to be shot? And just how safe did the survivors of McDermott's attack feel, dreading they might be his next victims? The police, however, were very safe. They took so long putting on SWAT gear and surrounding the building that by the time they finally entered the building, McDermott had killed everyone he wanted, and was sitting on a couch, quietly waiting to be arrested. What might we expect if American gun-owners gave in to the "community fears" created by the gun prohibition lobbies, and started surrendering their self-defense guns? Researchers Drs. John Lott and William Landes studied exactly that question. Noting that "few events obtain the same instant worldwide news coverage as multiple victim public shootings," they pointed out that "the most common suggestion for reducing the incidence of public shootings (the term we use to denote shootings in public places where two or more individuals are killed or injured) calls for greater regulation of guns." But in examining data between 1977 and 1995, Lott and Landes found that deaths and injuries from mass public shootings like Wakefield fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. "Right-to-carry" laws, also known as "shall issue" laws, require issuing authorities to provide a concealed carry handgun license to all qualified applicants. Massachusetts is one of 18 states without such a law. During the 1977-95 time period, there were 19 deaths and 97 injuries in states without right-to-carry laws, but only one death and two injuries in states which had such laws. In addition, where data were available both before and after passage of right-to-carry laws, the average death rate from mass shootings dropped by up to 91% after the laws took effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%. Never do the firearm prohibitionists consider the real risks posed by civilian disarmament. Many of them view successful self-defense as an affront to their ideas of order and of government supremacy. The "community fear" of non-gun-owners is a recent phenomenon, and is the product of dishonest fear-mongering by the anti-self-defense lobby and its media allies. In stark contrast, man's fear of being disarmed, and rendered vulnerable to predators, is an age-old and historically validated "psychic cost." There is nothing illusory about it. Should baseless, irrational fears, falsely created by those who loath self-defense, impair or negate the innocent person's right to self-protection, and the means to secure that protection? Samuel Wheeler, a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Connecticut, succinctly provided the answer to that question: "since we are talking about rights, it is not a matter of how we feel about living in a society which has armed citizens, unl
CS: Pol-ACPO on hunt ban
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2065 Friday 19 January 2001 Hunt ban will harm country policing, say chiefs By John Steele, Crime Correspondent CHIEF constables have warned the Home Office that a ban on hunting with dogs could damage relationships between the police and rural communities and stretch already limited resources. The Association of Chief Police Officers told the Government that its members strongly supported the regulation of hunting by an independent licensing authority "which did not involve the police". When the Home Office consulted chiefs over proposals for legislation, "significant concerns were expressed at the practical difficulties in enforcing a total ban", the association said yesterday after MPs had voted for a ban. Police chiefs were already under "enormous pressure" to tackle rural crime, it said, suggesting that, without extra money, the policing of hunts might drain resources from other operations. "The concerns of such communities at increasing crime in the countryside has been widely reported. The question of policing priorities would become subject to renewed debate if a total ban were imposed." The association, which represents chiefs in 43 forces in England and Wales, has kept a low public profile during the consultation period that led to the presentation to MPs on Wednesday of three options: a total ban, a middle way of a licensing authority, or self-regulation. MPs voted overwhelmingly for a total ban, backed by fines of up to £5,000. Although the association statement makes clear, in unusually forthright terms, that chiefs are far from enthusiastic about a ban, its release only after the vote reflected the chief constables' traditional reluctance to be seen to be influencing political decisions. The association told the Home Office that, for practical reasons, there was strong support for the middle way option of "having hunting with dogs controlled and regulated by an independent licensing body which did not involve police". Strong views were recorded in Home Office meetings about the "potential impact upon resources", the statement said. "Forces policing rural areas are already under enormous pressure to deal with crimes such as burglary, vehicle crime and drugs-related offences. Without additional resources, hard decisions will have to be made on policing priorities and how thinly-stretched resources are deployed." Under the Government's crime and disorder legislation, "police and local communities are working in close partnership to identify and tackle issues of concern to local people", the statement continued. "The extent to which hunting with dogs will feature in this process is, at this stage, unclear." The association also expressed concern about the practical problems of policing hunt meetings. It said: "Police experience of dealing with protests at hunts leaves us with no doubt as to the passion related to this issue, on both sides, and the practical difficulties involved in policing such events. Officers can find themselves in a no-win situation." Tim Hollis, the assistant chief constable of South Yorkshire, who played a central role in consultation with the Home Office, said: "We were grateful to be involved in consultation and for the opportunity to outline our concerns on the potential impact on local policing of the three options under consideration. "The demands being made on police resources are constantly rising. We are committed to doing our best to meet the priorities of the Government and of our local communities. Public debate on the recent crime statistics reflects the importance that people put on law and order. "It goes without saying that the police will do their best to meet the demands of any new legislation. But inevitably hard decisions will have to be made on priorities." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Careless cops?
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Police said today they had recovered a magazine containing 15 rounds of live ammunition lost by armed officers. A member of the public from the Carrington area of Nottingham rang police at 2.45am to say he had found what he thought was the missing magazine. No mention then of whether the "member of the public" who telephoned was subsequently surrounded by the armed police and is now facing a charge of illegal possession of ammunition for a banned weapon? Cynicism mode "off" DM Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-ban on hunting.
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2064 Thursday 18 January 2001 MPs vote for total ban on hunting By George Jones and Benedict Brogan PARLIAMENT took the first steps towards criminalising hunting with dogs when MPs voted overwhelmingly last night for an outright ban, backed by fines of up to £5,000. The hard-line option of a total ban on hunting and hare coursing was approved by 387 to 174 - a majority of 213 - on a free vote. The result was greeted by a loud cheer from the massed ranks of Labour MPs. The last time the Commons voted on hunting - in November 1997, soon after Labour came to power - the majority in favour of a ban was 260. Outside Parliament, disappointed pro-hunt campaigners blew whistles and hunting horns in defiance of the result at the end of a three-day vigil. A compromise proposal allowing hunting to continue as a licensed activity, supervised by a new regulatory authority, was rejected by 382 votes to 182, a majority of 200. A third option of self-regulation by the hunting fraternity was rejected by an even bigger margin - by 399 votes to 155, a majority of 244 - after a lacklustre debate. But a long and difficult parliamentary battle lies ahead to put a ban on the statute book. The vote paves the way for a pre-election battle in the House of Lords, where Tory peers have vowed to obstruct the progress of the Hunting Bill. There is little prospect of the Bill becoming law before the next general election. There were signs last night that Tony Blair and his senior ministers may seek to secure the compromise option of tighter regulation after the next election. Four Cabinet ministers - Jack Straw, Robin Cook, David Blunkett and John Reid - voted for the "middle way" option of allowing hunting to continue under a licensing system. Mr Blair disappointed the anti-hunting lobby by failing to vote, despite reaffirming his support for a ban.. He flew to Belfast for talks on the future of Northern Ireland, with Downing Street stressing that prohibiting hunting was not at the top of his priorities. The debate followed a day of protest which saw thousands of hunt supporters gather at meets around the country. Many said they were ready to go to jail if Parliament voted to criminalise the activity. Last night the Countryside Alliance said in a statement: "The reputation of Parliament for reasoned debate and fairness has been put on trial and found sorely wanting." The Alliance, said its chief executive, Richard Burge, was saddened but not surprised at the result and that so few MPs had bothered to attend the debate beforehand. The Tory Peter Luff, a founder member of the Middle Way group of MPs, said: "This is act two of a five-act drama. There are more acts to come. I am convinced the Lords will now vote for the middle way." David Lidington, Conservative home affairs spokesman, denounced the proposed ban as "illiberal and intolerant" and a waste of police resources at a time of rising violent crime. "It would harm individual freedom, without benefit to animal welfare. It would involve powers and penalties out of all proportion to the alleged problem." But Michael Foster, the Labour MP who three-and-a-half years ago tried unsuccessfully to ban foxhunting through a Private Member's Bill, insisted that it was the only "consistent and principled" option. Opening the debate, the junior Home Office minister Mike O'Brien said the votes were "a matter of conscience" for each MP. He rejected claims by Tory MPs that a ban on hunting would lead to moves to outlaw other sports, such as shooting and fishing. Earlier, Lord Strathclyde, Tory leader in the House of Lords, made clear that the Hunting Bill had little prospect of making it on to the statute book in the current Parliamentary session - and would not clear the Lords before a general election expected in May. "No Bill, not even the shortest and least controversial, can normally pass the Lords in less than six to seven weeks from when it leaves the Commons," he said. -- Er, isn't it more that a ban on shooting has led to a ban on hunting? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ISSUE 2064 Thursday 18 January 2001 Ban predicted within two years By Peter Foster ANTI-HUNT campaigners predicted that a ban on hunting would become a reality within two years. The RSPCA, the League Against Cruel Sports and the International Fund for Animal Welfare said last night's vote was a major step towards ending the "senseless cruelty" of hunting. Although accepting that the Bill would not become law in this Parliament, the League Against Cruel Sports was confident that Labour would make a manifesto commitment to allow a ban to go through in the next. Andrew Wasley, a spokesman for the league, said: "Allowing for a year's grace, the last packs of hounds should then be wound up by the autumn of 2002. This vote is the beginning of the end for hunting." The RSPCA added its support. "As far we are concerned, a complete ban is the only acceptable option. There can be no compromise on cruelty to animals. The majority of people want hunting banned and we hope and expect that MPs will recognise this. The earlier a ban is brought into force, the better. That should be achievable within two years. There is no place for hunting in a modern society." Rallies were staged outside the House of Commons and in Suffolk, Wales and Cornwall, before the hounds and riders set off in the frost for a day's hunting. At several meetings hunt followers promised to defy the ban even if it meant going to jail. Their threats were dismissed by the anti-hunting groups as "a final, futile gesture". The RSPCA said massing packs into superhunts was a "last sign of desperation". However, in many rural areas hunt leaders talked of taking drastic action if the ban was forced through in the next parliament. -- I don't pretend to be an expert on fox hunting, but surely if it is banned there will be no reason for farmers and so on to maintain the areas used by fox hunters and the areas where foxes live, so surely it will just be ploughed up and all the foxes killed off? Is this accurate? Or has it not been brought up because it conflicts with the "pest control" argument (which I have to say is daft because shooting them with a rifle is more effective). The argument I always use against banning fox hunting is that foxes will become extinct in various areas as there will be no reason to put up with them any longer. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-the debate in Parliament
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ISSUE 2064 Thursday 18 January 2001 Shooting and fishing are next, MPs told By Michael Kallenbach, Parliamentary Correspondent LABOUR'S attempt to ban hunting with dogs means that fishing and shooting could be next on the list to be targeted by animal rights campaigners, a former Tory minister warned last night. Speaking in the opening stages of a five-hour debate during the Committee Stage of the Hunting Bill, John Maples (C, Stratford-on-Avon) said: "We cannot simply ban things because we don't like them." Hunting, he told the Commons, "is not just a hobby or a pastime. It is a right, a freedom and a passion. It is the most efficient way of controlling the fox population and the alternatives are very probably worse." He predicted that the attention of campaigners would inevitably soon turn to fishing and shooting if a ban was approved. As someone who did not hunt, he spoke passionately about the future of hundreds of hounds which would have to be put down. But Tony Banks(Lab, West Ham) who is against hunting, gave assurances that he, personally, would never ban angling. He said: "You don't hunt fish with dogs and if you are a decent angler you put the fish back. I am a coarse fisherman, as you would expect, and I don't think angling can be compared with fox hunting." David Lidington, opening the debate for the Tories, spoke of recent threats against hunt members. "We are dealing with people outside this House who have shown they are prepared to use intimidation, threats of violence and actual violence in order to achieve their ends." He said the Government's priorities were wrong, given that the Home Office had only this week announced a huge increase in the rate of violent crime. "The Government is showing, in this, a sense of priorities that verges on the surreal. A ban on hunting would be both illiberal and intolerant. It would harm individual freedom, without benefit to animal welfare." For the Government, Mike O'Brien, a junior Home Office minister, said at the outset: "Each individual member of this House is allowed to have a free vote. It's a matter for each constituency MP to determine how they decide to represent their constituents." Mr O'Brien said the Bill followed the inquiry into hunting by the cross-bench peer Lord Burns, whose report the three opposing groups - the Countryside Alliance, Deadline 2000 and the Middle Way Group - said they could work with. Gordon Prentice (Lab, Pendle) said he was glad that Tony Blair had stuck to his principles and would vote for a ban of hunting. "Hunting, whose time has gone, is past." Those who enjoy it should "pick themselves up and dust themselves down and get on with their lives". He called for a more factual, more coherent discussion which he hoped would not be emotional. Michael Howard (C, Folkestone and Hythe) called the Government trivial, frivolous and irresponsible for introducing a ban on hunting. "It beggars belief that any serious Government, faced with an explosion of violent crime, would even contemplate distracting the police from tackling that problem, by imposing on them these large, uncertain and impractical burdens." Michael Foster (Lab, Worcester), who was unsuccessful four years ago when he attempted to ban fox hunting through a Private Member's Bill, said he was glad the Government had taken up his cause and that he had not changed his mind. "Hunting with dogs is cruel and unnecessary and it's time this practice was stopped." John Bercow, Tory home affairs spokesman, said he would vote against a ban because it was "unjust, unfair, improper and a chronic waste of time". If people wanted to hunt, they would continue to do so by going to countries that did not ban it. He termed the Government's position as "deplorable". Norman Baker (Lib Dem, Lewes) was concerned since the Bill had no chance of becoming law before the next general election. He criticised the Middle Way Group's proposal, saying it was an apology for hunting. Owen Paterson (C, Shropshire North) said he and his family had hunted for years and it was "decent, honest people" who go hunting for entertainment. He predicted that a ban would be a terrible blow to sheep farming. Simon Thomas, Plaid Cymru environment spokesman, told MPs that fox hunting should exist in a regulated form. "Anyone who has seen what is done to foxes can be in no doubt as to the barbarity of the hunt." Lembit Opik (Lib Dem, Montgomeryshire) told MPs that he was one of the founding members of the Middle Way Group. He said the debate did not need to be so polarised and emotive, and called for a pragmatic solution. Tony Baldry (C, Banbury) said hunting had
CS: Pol-The higher the stakes the harder we will fight
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I detect some hardening of attitudes (!) among those being discriminated against so unjustly in Britain! I have recently been listening to some recordings of Sir Winston Churchill's speeches and one in particular springs to mind. I wonder if you can guess which one it is? There is evidence that the Canadians are being defiant the Australians too. If the British country sports people refuse to bow to this sort of tyranny does anyone think that the New Zealanders will meekly accept legislation aimed at curtailing our right to own firearms and to hunt and shoot should any government be foolish enough not to listen to what we are telling them? DM Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2064 Thursday 18 January 2001 'The higher the stakes, the harder we will fight' By Charles Clover, Environment Editor EAST Anglia's largest mounted field in the history of hunting turned out at Higham point-to-point racecourse in Suffolk yesterday in defiance of icy, treacherous ground and the prospect of a hunting ban. Close to 500 mounted followers, from 21 hunts, and around 2,000 on foot reserved their warmest applause for those speakers who threatened to go to jail if the sport was made illegal. The sight of a small army riding off to hunt through the frosted lanes was a poignant one for this particular spectator whose early encounters with the horse world began as a seven-year-old pushed up to watch the races from a Morris Traveller's roof. The bossy voices, the ready-made sausage rolls, the port complexions, the military-style organisation were the same as long ago. What was strikingly new, since the demonstration in Trafalgar Square which accompanied the second reading of the Hunting Bill in the Commons last month, was the anger and the number of speakers prepared to talk of defiance. Neil Curtis, regional director of the Countryside Alliance, read out a message warning that "one rash incident could result in us losing hunting for ourselves". But that was not what the crowd wanted to hear. To applause Mark Howard, gamekeeper and vice chairman of the Union of Country Sports Workers, told the crowd: "I've just about had enough of this Mr Nice Guy approach." Balaclava-clad animal rights protesters with hammers in their pockets pursued law-abiding hunts with impunity, he said. "This gathering is not to mark the end but the beginning and the defiance of any Government who thinks we would heed bad law. It's my livelihood, my right and my countryside. The higher the stakes, the harder I'll fight." George Bowyer, joint master of the Fitzwilliam Foxhounds, concluded: "I am prepared to go to jail to defend this sport I love." Earlier Robin Page, farmer, conservationist and columnist in The Daily Telegraph, said: "If hunting is banned, I will join a hunt for the first time. I will not back Blair's law. I will be Blair's first political prisoner." David Trotman, huntsman with the Essex and Suffolk foxhounds based in Hadleigh, said: "If hunting is banned, my livelihood is gone. The cottage we live in is tied to hunting and we shall be out on the street. "My son wants to be a huntsman and his future is gone. This is a very sad day. I would defy the ban." Earlier Prof "Twink" Allen, who hunts with the Thurlow, tried at the 11th hour to rebut the belief, on which most Labour MPs were likely to vote last night, that hunting was cruel. A hunted fox became alarmed, stressed and then for 15-20 seconds distressed when it realised it was going to be caught, he said. It was killed quickly by the lead hound or by other hounds, a quick but painful death. Compared with the septicaemia, cold, blood loss and gangrene suffered by shot foxes which got away or the cruelty of poisoning rats, "hunting pales into insignificance", he said. Around 1pm, the Essex and Suffolk hounds were led off to hunt, past a lone protester, pursued by the enormous field. Almost immediately, they found and killed a fox. Countryside Alliance organisers announced that the police had decreed that no more than 10 cars should follow through the narrow lanes. The message was studiously ignored. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Security of Government Databases
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17 Jan. 2001 There have been a couple of items recently in the press concerning spies within the police forces of Canada and New Zealand who have passed sensitive information to gang members. As you may be aware our Police Minister has recently stated that all firearms in New Zealand will be registered and an independent firearms authority set up to oversee licencing and registration of lawful gun owners and their firearms. There is growing concern among the law abiding firearms community that a national database may be compromised to the extent that it becomes, in effect, a shopping list for gangs and organised crime. There have been several serious thefts of significant quantities of guns (mostly handguns which are already subject to registration in New Zealand) in recent months which seem to have borne the hallmarks of being "inside" jobs. This has done nothing to allay the fear of shooters that their private details are no longer safe even with the Police. Can anyone point me to any further newspaper articles or reports detailing insecurity of police or government databases? The maintenance of privacy and/or infiltration of official databases by organised crime or to any criminal action that might be traced back to information that could have been sourced from a compromised database? Many thanks for any assistance in this, DM -- There was a case in London in the mid-80s where some guns were stolen and it appeared to have been an "inside" job. Possibly just some licensing officer yabbering on at the pub, but regardless I'm not keen on the idea of there being a central registry that can be accessed by any copper. It's very important that people write to the FCC to voice their concerns over this registry idea. They have to do it now because it is spelled out in Section 39 of the 1997 Act but significant safeguards must be implemented. Access must be limited to people with a good reason to see the information, and any access must be documented. Another point worth mentioning is that all information on people who have given up shooting (rather than having their certificate revoked because of a criminal act) should be purged from the system. There is no reason for the police to have a database of people who at some point held a firearm certificate. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-A female perspective.
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] EMAIL ADDRESS OF WRITER:- Elizabeth Bromstein's E-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2001.01.09 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A4 COLUMN: Page Four Column BYLINE: ELIZABETH BROMSTEIN SOURCE: Freelance Home, home on the range: Pistol-packing mama guns for tranquility There are so many things I've never done. I've never gone skydiving. I've never been on a spiritual quest. I've never crowd-surfed, smoked crack, won a beauty pageant, read War and Peace, been a Bond girl or battled a gang of ninjas. You might say I haven't really lived. Up until last week, I had never shot a gun either. And it dawned on me recently, while reading yet another article on gun control, that unlike battling ninjas or smoking crack, this was actually something I wanted to try. I know all kinds of people who grew up target-shooting on farms, but coming from a very urban upbringing, I had never even had the opportunity to touch a gun - oh, except for the time my friend Paddy found one. We were going to turn it in, but forgot his bag in the restaurant where we stopped for lunch. The only other thing in there was his flute. I can imagine the look on the face of whoever found it. Secret Location So I decided to give it a go. The first thing I discovered is that, unlike how I imagine the U.S. to be (shooting galleries in the back rooms of privatized liquor stores), it's not easy to find somewhere to shoot in Montreal. It took some investigating before I found a place; even then, I was asked to please keep the name and location secret. Club members are understandably afraid of being swamped with the wrong kind of visitors - anti-gun zealots. I agreed and was invited to come on down for a handgun-shooting lesson. Bill (last name withheld) assured me that I would enjoy myself, saying members ``come here to forget all their troubles, forget all their cares.'' When you're alone and life is making you lonely, you can always go shoot a gun. Sounded good to me. First, I was greeted by a gang of exuberant older men that included an elevator-operator, a well-known landscape artist and a war hero missing the fingers of an entire hand. These people love their sport and are not happy about feeling marginalized because of it. And all, it appears, were hoping that I would leave feeling the experience had been a positive one. ``People think we're a bunch of yahoos,'' lamented Dale, the club president. So I feel it is my duty to tell you that there was not a yahoo among the bunch. Bill started me on a .22 automatic, showing how to load it, outlining safety precautions (I can't stress how seriously these people take gun safety) and assuring me it couldn't hurt me as long as I didn't point it at myself. The bullets are small and the gun doesn't make much of a bang, but I was nervous and my hands were shaking when I pulled the trigger (not a good thing). Then I pulled it five more times and when I saw, through a telescope, that I had actually hit the target (once) 20 yards away, I felt like a superhero. The Natural I had been told that pistol-shooting takes more co-ordination and concentration than any other sport. How could a woman who can't walk through her apartment without hurting herself not be thrilled to discover she's not half bad at it? Then I tried a .38 revolver, which makes a louder bang but was definitely my favourite. I was starting to feel a little more confident until I tried the .45, which jerked back in my hand and scared the living daylights out of me. Back to the .38. And I was good! At least, that's what Bill told me and I choose to believe him, even if he was just being nice. Women, I'm told, are naturally better marksmen than men. The better I got, the better it felt. Also, Bill was right. ``Tell me,'' he said after I had finished. ``What were you thinking about while you were shooting?'' That's when I realized I had forgotten all about a personal matter I'd been crying over all morning. I hadn't been thinking about anything but the target. I had, in effect, forgotten all of my troubles and all of my cares. Wow. Waddaya know? I can see why people get hooked on this sport. And it looks like there is still a lot of interest out there. Several people I mentioned this to have begged me to take them to the range. So if I can get permission, they might be swamped with visitors after all. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Political Correctness
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >The boy's drawing was obviously - inappropriate - but perhaps the appropriate >reaction might have been a clip round his ear'ole from his Dad. But then, >what do I know? I'm a middle aged, middle class heterosexual male caucasian. >Kenneth Pantling Yes, and what is more Kenneth, you have on previous ocassions exhibited a significant level of common sense. This tends to support my belief that you are a bit of a failure at this political correctness stuff. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Widdecombe on self-defence
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sooner Hague realises that Widdecombe is a liability to the Tories and replaces her the better for their election prospects. This latest load of tripe she has come out with is unfortunately all too typical of her inane waffling. Kate Hoey for PM is what I say!! Regards, David. -- They're talking about her being a leadership candidate! God help them, is all I can say! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Widdecombes self defence waffling
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: Widdicombes waffling on self defence I received the following this morning as part of a club newsletter. I have removed the club news bits for brevity. Regards, David. > Southwest Gun Club, Inc. > PO Box 1061 > McComb, MS 39648 > 601-684-3020 > NRA Club # c1149 DCM Club # y35005 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > January 1, 2001 > > LEGISLATIVE ALERT: > > I am pleased with the outcome of the November Presidential Election. I > believe George W. Bush will work > with American shooters to stop the passage of further restrictive firearms > legislation. > > Home burglary is a serious problem in Mississippi. I believe we need to > pass a law framed after the law > passed in Texas in 1993. If a person is on your property and behind the > front of your house (from the > street), after 10PM, you can confront him and you are not required to > retreat into your house, from the > prowler. If the prowler is shot, you cannot be arrested nor can the > prowler or his survivors sue for > damages caused by the shooting. This law has cut home burglary in Texas by > 70%. It seems in most states, > the criminal has all the rights and the honest citizen has to put up with > the idea that he may be arrested for > protecting his home or goods. I will try to convince our legislature that > such a law would stop a lot of crime > in our state. > > I have personally been the victim of thieves twice this year. It has cost > my insurance company and my > Family $4300 to repair the damage and replace property. This should not be > tolerated by our society. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Sport minister criticises handgun ban
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ET ISSUE 2048 Tuesday 2 January 2001 Hoey criticises ban on handguns By David Sapsted THE post-Dunblane ban on handgun possession has done nothing to stop criminals getting their hands on firearms, according to Kate Hoey, the sports minister. Kate Hoey: 'I have never accepted the link between legal holding of firearms and illegal weapons' She accuses fellow Labour MPs of taking "a very unfair attitude" towards legitimate shooting activities and says it is an activity that young children should be encouraged to participate in. The minister, a farmer's daughter who enraged the anti-shooting lobby with her praise of British winners at the Olympics and Paralympics, also reiterates support of foxhunting in an interview in the January edition of Sporting Gun magazine. Defending properly organised shooting activities, she says: "I have never accepted the link between legal holding of firearms and illegal weapons. I represent Vauxhall in London where there's a substantial number of illegal weapons on the black market, very easily available, and I'm not sure that the handgun ban has done anything to prevent illegal weapons getting into the wrong hands. "Obviously, after Hungerford and Dunblane, there was a kind of attitude that somehow there must be something slightly wrong with anyone who was involved in shooting. I knew this to be untrue and I thought even some of my colleagues in the House of Commons took a very unfair attitude." She says it is important that legitimate shooting be protected in any future legislation. "I will continue to do what I can to show people who are cynical and unsupportive of competitive shooting that it is a very good and disciplined sport that actually would be of benefit to many young people, in the right circumstances and with the right supervision," she adds. On foxhunting, the minister states that she is opposed to a ban and will vote against one, but she says: "I'm afraid there will be a lot of people who have a complete and utter fixation on getting rid of hunting." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Mass. shooting. Daily Telegraph editorial.
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daily Telegraph editorial 28-12-00 This man wasn't mad about guns - he was just mad By Toby Harnden International: Seven killed for sake of a $2,000 tax bill A HAND-WRINGING Boston Globe editorial lamented the "nightmare that stalks the nation" and "bright river of blood" bursting forth because the country "refuses to pass stringent controls on firearms". Just as with the Columbine school massacre and the Michigan six-year-old who shot a classmate, the tragedy in Wakefield has already ushered in calls for "common sense gun control" and more laws to limit the Second Amendment right of Americans to own weapons. Expect an appearance from President Bill Clinton, his bottom lip trembling as he feels the nation's pain, in which he all but blames the Republican Party and the National Rifle Association for McDermott's actions. While such performances no doubt help liberal consciences, they can all too easily act as a substitute for thought - the terrible events in Wakefield on Boxing Day could well be used to illustrate the argument against further gun control. Massachusetts, the most safely Democratic state of the 50 in the Union, is something close to gun control heaven. An FBI instant background check has to be carried out on anyone buying a gun and there is a seven-day waiting period for handguns. There are strict licensing requirements with mandatory jail sentences for breaking them and no one under 21 can buy a gun. McDermott, it seems, had no licence for any gun. He also used an AK47 the world's favourite terrorist weapon and the subject of a federal ban since 1994. Curiously, one Democratic aide in Boston used these facts to reach the conclusion: "Massachusetts has some of the nation's toughest gun laws but this demonstrates that even those laws can be improved." OK, let's follow the logic here. A wacko ignores every gun law on the books and blows away his workmates. But if there had been even tougher laws, then he would have meekly laid down his AK47 and spoken to the human resources manager instead. Mr Clinton used a similar logic himself when hammering Republicans over the death of Kayla Rolland, the Michigan six-year-old. If only Congress had passed a mandatory trigger-lock law, then little Kayla would be alive today, he said. But the unpalatable truth is that if the weapon that killed Kayla had been the last gun in America it would not have had a trigger-lock. The boy who killed her lived in a crack house. His father was in prison and his mother an addict. The gun was stolen. All the gun laws in the world would not have saved Kayla. While the Michigan shooting and the Wakefield massacre prompt worldwide headlines, much of the hysteria about violence in America is the result of carefully twisted statistics. Democrats are fond of stating that 13 children die every day from gun violence. But about 70 per cent of those "children" are aged between 17 and 19, the vast majority of them killed in gang-related murders. Another favourite is that American children - it was Mr Clinton who taught Tony Blair that the justification "it's for the children" is the best substitute of all for reason - are more likely to die from gunfire than the combined total of juveniles in the next 25 industrialised nations. These nations, however, include Hong Kong (ask Chris Patten but it wasn't a nation the last time I checked) and Kuwait but not Russia or Brazil - countries that have largely banned guns but have murder rates four times higher than in the United States. That is not to say that America does not have a problem with gun violence or that politicians and police officers should not be doing all they can to tackle it. But this is difficult to do without defining the problem's scale and nature. Gun ownership in America is both enshrined in the constitution and one of its citizens' most cherished rights of freedom. Al Gore found this out to his cost in the election when his gun control rhetoric was one of the factors that cost him the presidency. George W Bush, in contrast, emphasised enforcing existing gun laws - an approach that seems sensible enough in the light of Wakefield. Moreover, America is already awash with guns and preventing the law-abiding from having access to a means of self-defence would be little more than positive discrimination for the criminal. If there is any answer to why Mike McDermott finally decided "enough already" on Boxing Day, it lies in the dark recesses of his mind rather than any draft legislation. However, as Bob Geldof concluded in his 1979 song I Don't Like Mondays - about Brenda Spencer, the San Diego schoolgirl who opened fire on her teachers and schoolmates - even the search for psychological explanations can be fruitless. "He can see no reasons 'cos there are no reasons,"
CS: Field-BBC kills deer unlawfully
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Makes you wonder just how the human race actually did survive before the invention of firearms doesn't it. Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Oh yes, politically correct castaways. They should last about five minutes by trying to be environmentally sound etc. Following on from this correspondence I actually made the effort to watch a bit of an episode of Castaways which is currently showing in New Zealand last night. All I can say is that it fits in well with the ABYSMAL level of utter rubbish that passes for television in this country. What a whining bunch of no-hopers. They seem to want everything done for them and then complain constantly that it's not right. Not one of them would last five minutes if they really were cast away. Come to think of it they are much like a large section of our population who make claiming the dole a way of living! Regards and compliments of the season to all, David. -- I haven't watched the English version but the German version on RTL is more a mix of a soap opera and a holiday show than anything to do with survival. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-cartridge cases wanted
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Be very careful what you do with empty cartridge cases! Remember the the man who held up the restaurant by exhibiting a cartridge in his hand? Such is the level of ignorance and hysteria about firearms in the UK these days that anyone equipped with a walking stick with a fired 12 bore cartridge on the end of it might find themselves surrounded by the kevlar cowboys and facing a charge of possessing a banned firearm (walking stick gun) or worse shot dead like poor old Harry Stanley. Sad to say this is only half tongue in cheek! David. -- It's not uncommon to use shotgun cases that way, I've seen things like it at game fairs. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Molebdenum
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex, I have no scientific evidence to quote to you. I understand that Sierra conducted a series of tests and concluded, basically, that moly coating their projectiles is a waste of time but I don't have details of those tests. I am surprised you say Ms Moly is not a good lubricant for cast bullets but again I have only personal experience to base my remarks upon. The quote from Andrews post reproduced below seems to agree with my remarks so at least I am not alone. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Molebdenum
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Gazette Saturday 1 September 1917. "Molebdenum can increase the life of a gun by as much as twenty times" So whats new then. My Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 is 102 years old, has never had a moly coated bullet through it in it's life and still shoots minute of angle. Should I be concerned that my rifle may not last another nineteen hundred years? I'm not knocking moly coating, I have used "MS Moly" as a lube for the cast bullets I fire in my .404 Jeffery with great success. It is clean, dry, easy to use, doesn't pick up grit like Alox which I used to use and leaves the bore very easy to clean. For most applications though I think moly coating is a waste of time, money and effort in other words just a gimmick. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Scotlands "knife culture"
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Knives don't kill people, people kill people. Now where have I heard an expression something like that before? DM Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 2022 Thursday 7 December 2000 Knives blamed for rise in Scotland's murder rate By Nick Britten, Scotland Political Correspondent LABOUR'S purge on Scotland's escalating knife culture lay in tatters last night after official figures revealed a huge increase in the number of fatal stabbings. The overall number of killings has risen by around a quarter in a year, owing to the increased use of knives and is approaching record levels. Jim Wallace, the Justice Minister, said the figures were "unacceptable". "There is a clear picture of young men carrying knives who are prepared to use them regardless of the consequences, not only to their victims and their families but also to themselves and to their own families." The figures released by the Government Statistical Service showed that there were 120 murder victims in Scotland last year, an increase of 22 and only 16 below the post-war record of 136, which was reached in 1992 and 1996. All the extra victims were men and were the result of an attack with a knife or sharp instrument. This type of injury accounted for 66 lives, more than half the total. Ninety-nine men died violently last year while the female figure remained constant at 19. The death of more than half the victims was attributed to rages or quarrels, many resulting from alcohol or drug abuse. More than three-quarters of the victims knew their killer or killers. A quarter were killed by their partner or a relative, many as an escalation of ongoing domestic abuse. Only one of the cases has yet to be solved. In Strathclyde, murders increased from 63 in 1998 to 82 last year. There were increases in the number of killings in Aberdeen, Lothian and Borders and Dumfries and Galloway, while numbers fell in Fife, Tayside and Northern. Mr Wallace said: "That 120 people should suffer a violent death at the hands of another person is totally unacceptable in the modern civilised Scotland we are trying to create. Alcohol is often involved. This annual pattern of young men with knives killing young men cannot be allowed to continue. "Today's figures once again demonstrate a tragic and senseless waste of life. We will do all we can to protect our communities." A wide-ranging review of the police service undertaken recently recommended a shake-up of support services to create a unified support structure for the eight forces. Malcolm Chisholm, the deputy health minister, is today due to announce details of a strategy to tackle alcohol misuse. Police forces are targeting licensed premises known as "hot spots" for trouble throughout December. Roseanna Cunningham, Scottish National Party justice spokesman, said: "It is essential that the Labour government tackles the growing knife culture in Scotland and targets more resources towards increasing the number of police officers on Scotland's streets." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Letter to the Editor
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, Follows my letter to the Telegraph. Don't imagine for a moment they will publish it but it felt quite good to write it. Regards, David. 30-11-00 Dear Sir, Re: Straw and the murdered Nigerian boy. What a bloody hypocritical fool Jack Straw is! Tony Martin stood up to criminals and got involved no matter how dangerous and unpleasant it was when the police proved utterly incapable of helping or protecting him and now he's doing life. Politicians like Straw and Bliar are truly the scum of the Earth. Regards, -- Jack Straw was quoted yesterday as urging people to fight criminals. Now that would be a neat trick. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Target-Irish Lee Enfield accuracy problem.
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have recently bought an ex-Irish government 303. The rifle is in beautiful condition but is not nearly as accurate as my old 1942 Longbranch (now regretfully sold). I have tried a card shim under the front of the barrel to impart a slight upward pressure to the barrel but testing today did not result in a startling improvement. I have now reduced the thickness to try again. Has anyone heard of any other tricks that I might try? The barrel band screws are firm but not over tight. The king screw is tight, the bedding with the woodwork at the action and the first 2 inches of the barrel appears to be firm and snug. On a day when I did my part with sand bags front and rear the Longbranch would put ten rounds into a group of 3 inches at 100 yards with no fliers. With the same batch of ammo the Irish is struggling to achieve twice that which I do not consider satisfactory. I am really pleased to have this "last" of the 303s and I really want it to shoot well. Any suggestions gratefully received, Thanks, David. -- I remember a similar problem with one of these guns in the US, I can't recall how the owner solved it, but the gunsmith got it shooting okay eventually. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Rifles, scopes and baggage handlers
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] steal. Also, in aircraft where the hold isn't pressurised, the combination of cold and low pressure might overcome the gas seals of an old scope just when you _don't_ want them to fail. Aircraft holds are pressurised. They have restricted airflow to comply with fire containment requirements but the are always pressurised to the same differential as the passenger cabin. DM Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Handloading 6.5 x 68
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes indeed the MV's are a bit on the conservative side hardly any advantage over the 6.5x55mm for which, of course, there is a vast repertoire of loads. I dare say though that with time and careful load development a much hotter load could could be developed and I would venture to suggest that is half the fun of owning a rather obscure calibre. As for baboons, having lived in Africa and seen them at very close range from a vehicle I would not like to get too close on foot unless well armed. One old chap who hunted sand grouse with a Greener GP single told me he always keep a couple of rounds of buckshot in case of an encounter with a dog baboon which he reckoned to be a most dangerous and unpredictable animal when surprised. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Handloading 6.5 x 68
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nick Harvey lists the following, First Edition, page 135. He also states that load data for the .264 Winchester Magnum can be used in the 6.5x68mm RWS: RWS Cases and RWS 5333 primers and H4831 powder 140 grn starting load 61grns max 63grns for 2999 to 3131 fps from 65cm barrel 120 64 68 3142 3309 100 69 71 3455 3550 I should think you could safely say that baboons will not like any of those loads "up 'em." Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Nat. Centre for Social Research
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following was sent to me by someone here in New Zealand who I ocassionally correspond with and who knows I have a passing interest in such things. I do not know who Robert Henderson is and have never received anything from him before. Whether it is genuine or a wind up I can not say but I thought I would send it on in case you are interested. Regards, David. Note: Today (21 Oct) I was visited by a researcher from the National Centre for Social Research by the name of Paul Moody. He was conducting interviews for a survey on Londoners' perception of and experience of crime - the details are given below under the heading of Policing for London - this is the text of a leaflet I gained from the Moody. The survey has been instigated by the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone and will be used by London's police force, The Metropolitan Police, to decided policy. After I had opened the door, Moody identified himself, explained that he was conducting a survey of randomly chosen people. He then announced "Because you are white, I shall not be interviewing you." Intrigued by that, I began to question Moody who told me that whites were being excluded because otherwise the survey would not be racially representative of the London population (I kid you not). I pointed out that a random survey - provided the sample was large enough, taken throughout the central London (GLA) area would produce a sample representative of London's racial mix. Moody became rather flustered at this point and began making some very strange statements indeed, including stating that he had been instructed to interview only Asians in the area "because otherwise the people selected would be overwhelmingly white". As I live in the Kings Cross area, which has a very large non-white population, this statement was utterly risible. I did not discover what the questions were to the survey, but it is pretty clear from what I did discover that this survey is being deliberately skewed to produce a particular answer which will favour blacks and Asians. The fact that Mayor Livingslime is behind it tells you all you need to know. Below the Policing for London leaflet text is the text of another leaflet dealing with the National Centre for Social Research. This body conducts many of the major surveys on which the government and public bodies relies to justify policy. That so much major public-related research is in the hands of one body is worrying in itself, because it means that a very small number of people are designing the surveys, which in turn means that it is very easy to control the outcome of "surveys" which the government etc uses. Robert Henderson Pamphlet 1 " Policing for London Responding to diversity What is the survey for? The population of London is richly diverse and rapidly becoming more so. This diversity is reflected in what people want and need from their police. A major challenge facing the new Metropolitan Police Authority will be how to ensure the active support of Londoners for a service that treats them all fairly. This survey aims to help tile police in their decision making about the future direction of policing in London. It will provide them with a comprehensive picture on such issues as: What Londoners need and want from their police service. How their experiences of the police affect their views. What they think the police do well and what they do less well. How they think the police can improve. What they think should be the police's priorities for London. About 2,750 Londoners aged 15 and over will be interviewed. The sample is specially designed to include sufficient numbers of people from the main ethnic groups in London for their views to be represented adequately. Interviews will take about 45 minutes. It is not possible to interview everyone in London, so households have been randomly selected from the Post Office's list of addresses. We only need to interview one person (also chosen at random) from each address. To ensure the results reflect the experiences and attitudes of the whole population, we have to rely on the people we have chosen taking part. Nobody else can take their place. Participation in the study is, of course, voluntary. If you prefer not to answer any question, you may simply decline to do so, and at any time in the interview you may withdraw answers already given. It is very unlikely. From tithe to time we need to check the quality of work carried out by our interviewers and you may be contacted for your views on how well you thought the interviewer carried out his/tier task. You may also be contacted again if you agree to take part in further research. Our responsibility
CS: Legal-teletext
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The police are to request certificate holders to inform them of their movements so that they can reduce the call-outs, to otherwise legitimate shooting activities, of armed officers. Can't you just see where this is leading? The police demanding prior notification of every time a shooter wants to go shooting. It will be " What a lovely evening, let's go for a walk and see if we can get a rabbit or two. Oh no, we can't do that, I forgot to give the police twenty four hours notice that I intend to open the gun safe!" David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-flick knives
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I did think when they showed the flick knife and the butterfly knife that was a prime example of why knife bans are a waste of time. Flick knives have been banned for 30 years. Longer than that I think. I remember going to Lake Como on a school trip in 1964 or 65 and flick knives were certainly illegal in Britain even then. That didn't stop every boy on the trip bringing home at least one. I remember standing in a shop agonising over which of three or four flick knives I should buy with my limited pocket money. In the end I bought a large (6 inch) one which was subsequently stolen (I suspect by one of my sisters unsuitable boyfriends) and a smaller one (four inches) which is probably in the loft at my parents house to this day though with a broken spring. I seem to remember that with the amount of flicking we did with them the springs didn't last very long. Banning something never prevented anyone having it if the want enough. Can it really be that politicians etc. have so little experience of real life that they can't see the truth of that? David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Letter in the ET
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] At last I've had a letter published in the Electronic Telegraph!!! DM David Mack [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: Whiff of stupidity Date: 9 October 2000 SIR - It seems that the Conservatives are not interested in forming the government again. The total ban on the lawful ownership of handguns, instigated by the Tories as a knee-jerk, vote-winning reaction to the Dunblane massacre, and ever-tougher gun laws, have not reduced crime in the slightest but have led to a large rise in the criminal misuse of firearms. Can the Tories not see that this idiotic proposal to make first-time cannabis users criminals will also be entirely counterproductive? [Widdecombe plan would jail 2,000, 7 October 2000]. -- Please be careful when writing to papers and more importantly MPs when you mention the crime rate because the Home Office is just waiting for comments that are wrong so they can portray us as idiots. The armed crime rate actually hasn't gone up that much, in fact in several categories the trend is downwards. Where it has gone up is in offences against the person, e.g. assault. Armed robbery is going down and so are property crimes such as vandalism. Basically the picture is that the less serious offences are going downward, but the most serious offences are going up. Handgun-related homicide was higher in 1998 than any year prior to 1994, but it was lower than in 1995-1997. There are so few firearm-related homicides in GB that it is hard to infer much from the statistics, but the simple fact that 28 people were murdered with handguns in E&W in 1998 indicates the ban was less than successful. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-melting wads
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] After all shotguns don't get plastic deposits in their barrels from plastic wads or cartridge hulls do they? They most certainly do if you use plastic wads over blackpowder in shotgun cartridges. The much greater transfer of heat to shotgun barrels from blackpowder easily melts plastic shotgun wads into a filthy mess which is very difficult to clean from even well polished barrels let alone rather rough old barrels such as my 1887 W.C.Scott 12 bore. I only use felt and cardboard now having tried plastic as an experiment. Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-melting bullets
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whilst developing a cast bullet load to use in my .404 Jeffery I experienced such severe bullet melting with a batch of 50/50 linotype/wheelweight 410 grain bullets that my chronograph was almost destroyed by lead splatter fifteen feet from the muzzle. The interior surface of the barrel was coated with a light grey deposit which, fortunately, was not too difficult to remove most of the melt having been scoured from the bore by the gas check I believe. Needless to say after two rounds that batch of bullets was pulled and returned to the melting pot for another day/use. I now use wheelweights with a little bar solder added. I don't know what the melting temperature of the mix is but it is much higher than the linotype mix. Incidentally muzzle velocity is 2150 fps exactly duplicating the old cordite load. This is acheived with 79 grains of Mulwex AR 2209. The .404 Jeffery is a grand cartridge but a little too powerful for anything we have in NZ except perhaps feral cattle - but I haven't got around to trying it on them yet. Regards Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Gulf War Syndrome
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] A friend sent me the following. Sorry I don't have a source for it but you may be interested anyway. DM Tests show Gulf war victims have uranium poisoning Jonathon Carr-Brown and Martin Meissonnier NEW evidence that Gulf war syndrome exists and was caused by radiation poisoning will be revealed today by a former American army colonel who was at the centre of his government's attempts to diagnose the illness. Dr Asaf Durakovic will tell a conference of eminent nuclear scientists in Paris that "tens of thousands" of British and American soldiers are dying from radiation from depleted uranium (DU) shells fired during the Gulf war. The findings will undermine the British and American governments' claims that Gulf war syndrome does not exist and intensify pressure from veterans on both sides of the Atlantic for compensation. Durakovic, who is professor of nuclear medicine at Georgetown University, Washington, and the former head of nuclear medicine at the US Army's veterans' affairs medical facility in Delaware, will tell the conference that he and his team of American and Canadian scientists have discovered life-threateningly high levels of DU in Gulf veterans 10 years after the desert war. His findings, which have been verified by four independent experts, is embarrassing for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and American Defence Department, which have consistently refused to test Gulf war veterans for DU. Durakovic will tell the European Association of Nuclear Medicine that tests on 17 veterans have shown DU in the urine and bones of 70% of them. Depleted uranium does not occur naturally. It is the by-product of the industrial processing of waste from nuclear reactors and is better known as weapons-grade uranium. It is used to strengthen the tips of shells to ensure that they pierce armour. Durakovic, who left America because he was told his life was in danger if he continued his research, has concluded that troops inhaled the tiny uranium particles after American and British forces fired more than 700,000 DU shells during the conflict. The finding begins to explain for the first time why medical orderlies and mechanics are the principal victims of Gulf war syndrome. British Army engineers who removed tanks hit by DU shells from the battlefield and medical personnel who cut off the clothes of Iraqi casualties in field hospitals have been disproportionately affected. Once inside the body, DU causes a slow death from cancers, irreversible kidney damage or wastage from immune deficiency disorders. In the UK, where more than 400 veterans are estimated to have died from "Gulf war syndrome", at least 50 of those victims came from Reme (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) units. Others, such as Ray Bristow, 42, of Hull, who was a theatre technician for 32 Field Hospital, are now wheelchair-bound. Tests carried out by Durakovic on Bristow showed that, nine years after leaving the Gulf, he had more than 100 times the safe limit of DU in his body. Durakovic said: "I doubt whether the MoD or Pentagon will have the audacity to challenge these results. I can't say this is the solitary cause of Gulf war syndrome, but we now have clear evidence that it is a leading factor in the majority of victims. "I hope the US and UK governments finally realise that, by continuing to use this ammunition, they are effectively poisoning their own soldiers." An MoD spokesman said it would study any new evidence: "Our aim is to get the best care for British veterans and our views are based on the best evidence around." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-primed cases
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Last year I flew home from Heathrow with one hundred new, empty, unprimed .404 Jeffery cases in my luggage. They were taken off me by the security people who obviously didn't seem to understand what they were. Police and Customs were called neither of whom gave me much confidence that they had the foggiest idea of what constitutes ammunition and after about twenty minutes of hanging about while the police made a couple of phone calls the brass was packaged up in a carton marked to be hand carried by flight crew to destination. Having two stops to make on the way home I was afraid that was the last I'd see of my hard to come by cases but they arrived in Auckland safely and on the same plane as me and they were duly handed over without the slightest fuss. The firearms legislation and everything to do with guns in Britain seems to breed a "culture of ignorance and suspicion." Regards, David. -- Knowing the number for the Home Office and the local police licensing dept. by heart is useful here! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Australia Atty-General letter to dealers
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone got the money to set up a handgun factory in Australia? Tomkins are keen to sell off Smith & Wesson. Perhaps some enthusiastic entrepreneur could do a deal and relocate the plant to Perth (being the most pleasant city in the state with the least onerous gun laws I believe). Regards, David. -- Western Australia has the worst gun laws in Australia, at least from my reading of them, you have to have a seperate license for each gun! Surely an idea would be to take over the Lithgow plant, I thought it was up for sale some time ago. The problem in Australia is that it really is a microscopic market as there are only 19 million people who live there, and very few indeed hold a handgun license. Their handgun laws are as bad as ours were, not surprising as many States simply copied ours. I have a copy of the old NSW firearms act, the only real difference was that rifles did not require a firearm certificate. Now we had only one handgun manufacturer, JSL of Hereford, in the past 20 years or so. Webley and Scott used to make a revolver up until about 1982 until West Midlands Police shut them down as they couldn't afford the security arrangements the police wanted. What would be neat is if someone could take over Lithgow and make a decent straight-pull AUG! As Australian police and some security guards carry guns, if someone down there could make a reasonable copy of the Glock they might be able to sell enough to be viable. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-new Ruger Carbine
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] > However, their old .44 semi-auto was extremely popular, but it held too many rounds and changes in hunting laws in the 70s and 80s put it out of fashion. This new rifle is designed with this in mind. If it sells really well and some people start tinkering with it for plinking and/or target shooting, I'm sure higher capacity magazines will appear but I won't hold my breath.< A friend of mine has one of the Ruger semi auto .44's. There is a distinct disadvantage with it compared to the lever or bolt action Ruger .44's and that is it flings the empty cases away into the bush so that a shooting session with it quickly becomes rather expensive in lost brass! Even on our local range it is advisable to drape a piece of towel over the rifle so that the cases fall around your feet. All things considered I think I'd stick with the bolt action .44 Mag rifle which is a lovely little gun. Regards, David. -- We don't have the option in this country, with Ruger making three .44s with the same mag. perhaps someone will make a higher capacity one, but the 77/44 and the 96/44 have been around for some time now, and no-one has yet. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-new Ruger Carbine
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I doubt it because (a) there is no demand in the US for such a device and (b) it's quite difficult to do because the 4-round mag is a rotary one. But the 10-22 uses a rotary magazine and there are a number of after market magazines available for it with up to 50 rounds capacity if I am not mistaken? Regards, David. -- There are (or rather were, until US law changed), but the 10/22 is more of a plinker and target gun than the .44s. Butler Creek still make the 25-round 10/22 mags for export if you order enough of them. I asked the people on the Ruger stand at the SHOT show and the sales of the 10/22 outstrip the 96 by about a hundred to one. However, their old .44 semi-auto was extremely popular, but it held too many rounds and changes in hunting laws in the 70s and 80s put it out of fashion. This new rifle is designed with this in mind. If it sells really well and some people start tinkering with it for plinking and/or target shooting, I'm sure higher capacity magazines will appear but I won't hold my breath. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Olympic shooters lobby for easing of handgun ban
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] > BRITISH shooters are threatening to boycott the 2002 >Commonwealth Games in Manchester because the Government's >ban on handguns prevents them practising. >They claim the ban puts them at a severe disadvantage to >foreign rivals, Personally I would like to see the entire British shooting team boycott the Manchester games and make as much political capital out of it as possible. I would also love to see British shooting teams cause embarrassment to the British government at the Sydney Olympics but as I don't believe they have either the guts or care enough for Joe Publics right to enjoy the shooting sports I won't hold my breath!! Regards, David. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-.308/7.62
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone have any personal experience of the problem of using 7.62 NATO in a .308? I bought some ex military "MEN" 7.62 ammo (German I believe) to use for target/plinking in a Brazilian Mauser rebarreled to .308. After the first couple of rounds and having to hammer the bolt open with my fist I decided they were probably too hot for my rifle. If I recall correctly the dealer from whom I bought them told me that his son had had similar problems whilst using them to shoot seagulls at a local rubbish tip. Seems they were loaded for machine gun. Regards, David. -- I think that's more of an overloading problem than a dimensional problem, MEN ammo is usually pretty good, the Germany Army uses it. 7.62 on seagulls? Yikes. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-.307 Winchester
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The development of the rimmed .307 Win. began in 1980 with the first public announcement in Dec 1982. The cartridge and the Model 94XTR Angle Eject Carbine chambered for it were not available until early 1983." Above and more details from Cartridges of the World 8th Edition by Frank Barnes. Regards, David. -- As far as I can tell from the pictures it is basically a rimmed .308 Winchester. Bit of an oddball but it's quite interesting. I'm surprised I haven't come across it before. Bit of a p---take to rechamber .308s to it to avoid a ban on military calibres, the conversion must take about five minutes! Might be useful for PR I suppose, in a similar vein to the Browning BLR, though it looks as though you have to use flatpoint bullets in the tubular mags. Mag capacity is a bit limited as well, but I suspect it would be quite fast. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
