Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 18:04:02 +0100
Brian  wrote:

> On Thu 12 May 2022 at 10:08:01 -, Virgo Pärna wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali 
> > wrote:  
> > > Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will
> > > continue to work but ability to download mail with POP3 without
> > > OAUTH2 will be unavailable. 
> > 
> > Actually, even without OAUTH2 it should be still possible.
> > With two factor authentication enabled it is possible to generate
> > app password for use with standard authentication.  
> 
> It's June 1st and my ability to collect mail via POP3 from gmail is
> unimpaired. No  OAUTH2 or 2FA at this site. Whatever Google intended
> the situation to be after May 30th, it appears the interpretation by
> some users of their mail was off the mark.
> 

Still works here, too. Claws-mail 3.17.3 IMAP.  No OAuth2 or 2FA.
Neither of which this version of Claws supports, IIRC. Of course,
notification email did say "may not" not won't.

FWIW: Yahoo mail ceased working with Claws several years ago due to
security changes.  Though still accessible via web browser with only a
password.

B

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 24 May 2022 13:27:29 +0200
Antonino Saetta  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

To give you a choice of which desktop or desktops to install, or no GUI
at all. With Linux you can install and run multiple desktops, if you
want to.

> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It is, but you don't have to use/install it if you don't want to.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

XFCE, LXDE, LXQt are all considered "light" desktops. Running only a
window manager (I use Openbox. There are many others.) is even lighter.

B

Re: Installing minimal command line system with netinst.iso

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 14:24:29 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I have limited internet connectivity.
> I have read over the years that installing a *MINIMAL* command line 
> system from netinst.iso [without internet is possible].
> The intent to add pieces later assumed.
> Is this process described somewhere?
> 
> I've got a system that appears to have a very minimal shell running.
> My potential internet connection is a USB connected hotspot from 
> T-Mobile. On a typical GUI installed Debian it runs fine.
> 
> My minimal system doesn't recognize it.
> What might be the missing software?
> 
> Any suggestions?
> My effective data cap at the moment is ~1 GB/month.
> Among my goals is installer for those with _*minimal*_ resources.

I'm assuming you're connecting your phone directly via its USB port to a
USB port on your computer.  You probably need to make an entry
in /etc/network/interfaces. Plus, enable "USB tethering" (not wifi) in
Settings/Network on your phone.  Here's my interfaces entry:

allow-hotplug usb0
iface usb0 inet dhcp

My phone gets recognized as usb0, your's my differ.  Make the
correction, if needed.

B



iface usb0 inet dhcp

Re: Query

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 08:50:36 -0700
William Lee Valentine  wrote:

> I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a
> DVD.)

And have something usable? With the default GNOME desktop? Probably
not. With a lightweight desktop like XFCE? Maybe.  With a window
manager only? Better chance, but still iffy.  Main problem is lack of
RAM and slow CPU. You'll need the 32-bit version of Debian.

Here's a real example with equivalent hardware from around 2004 or 5:
1GHz Duron (PIII equivalent), 1 GB or so RAM, Fedora Core 6, GNOME
desktop.  My system at the time. After numerous upgrades from FC2,
system had become sluggish, particularly with menus -- a second or so
pause before appearing. I was able to get a usable system for another
year or so by a very custom install of Debian Wheezy. Started with a
terminal-only install, then added a minimal X with a window manager
(Openbox), a few utilities and lastly apps. However, I doubt if
Debian 11 would run well on it, even if you abandoned a desktop and
went with a window manager.

All you can do is try and see what happens. Good luck.

> The computer is
> 
>     Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
>     memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
>     IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
>     Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
>     Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 
> If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it
> preserve the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

Re: TDE File Manager options

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:35:50 -0600
"c. marlow"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Yes, I know that in previous emails I was using LXDE, but I thought
> that I would nuke and pave give TDE a try since I had never tried
> TDE  before.
> 
> And I am wondering what other file managers work with TDE 14 besides 
> Konqueror,  which ain't worth a dang! 

Take a look at XFE, a fairly full-featured, but lightweight, X-based
file manager. It seems compatible with all window-manager only or DTE
systems. I've been using it since I upgraded to Wheezy/Openbox (No
DTE just the window manager) from Fedore 12/Gnome years ago. XFE
continued to work fine with Stretch, Buster and now Devuan Beowulf.

B

Re: question from total newbie. a little help please

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:00:52 -0400
JAMES BOSWELL  wrote:

> if i divide my hard drive and install debian lynx on it. will i be
> able to effectively run debian on this laptop?

The best way to find that out is to get a Live version of Debian, and
see if boots and runs without problems.

> Device name LAPTOP-R4DB7V5U
> Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10110U CPU @ 2.10GHz   2.59 GHz
> Installed RAM 4.00 GB (3.81 GB usable)
> Device ID CAACC244-37B7-4294-84E4-E73B9C030FDF
> Product ID 00356-02325-39311-AAOEM
> System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
> Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display
> 
> Edition Windows 10 Home
> Version 21H1
> Installed on ‎4/‎2/‎2021
> OS build 19043.1288
> Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3920.0
> 
> i know about enough to fill a thimble but i'm hopeful and any guidance
> would be greatly appreciated and i would follow it to the T's

Since your knowledge of Linux admittedly is severely lacking, I would
recommend thoroughly researching Linux, in general, and Debian, in
particularly, BEFORE attempting any install. And the first attempt be
on a system you don't mind trashing.

And always keep in mind: Linux is NOT Windows.  So never assume that
the way you did it on Windows will work on Linux.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

B

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 05:14:36 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 10/09/2021 10:24 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
> > Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >   
> >> [snip]
> 
> > 
> > Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
> > Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games
> > or Photoshop, the more problems you'll have.  
> 
> For context, I've been providing informal support to a local couple
> for decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. They need a
> new computer and as part of my support, I'll be purchasing a
> replacement. As I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure
> Windows users I planned to dual boot Windows and Debian. Debian
> primarily for its maintenance tools. I hope WINE will run enough of
> their "must have" apps that I can use that as a selling point to move
> from Windows to Linux.

If all they've ever used is Windows, leave it at that. Don't attempt
to switch them to Linux. It will be more trouble than it's worth. Get
them a laptop with Windows, clean the preinstalled and CPU
cycles eating background crap off of it, bring it up-to-date, and you're
done. 


> > In those cases, just run Windows in a virtual machine which is what
> > I do for ALL Windows apps I need. Less or virtually no gotchas!  
> 
> On my personal machines I would have no motivation to install a VM. 
> However, I'll investigate the pros/cons of having their machine run a
> VM in which I would run Debian as a demo.

Unless they really NEED Debian or Linux, don't bother.

If you want to demo Linux just get one of the many "live" versions to
boot the system.  Then they can play with it without installing.  And
it won't do anything to their existing Windows install.

> Are there good FOSS or low cost VMs for Windows machines?

Windows has it's own VM.  Can't remember its name, but I'd recommend
VirtualBox instead -- https://www.virtualbox.org/ .  It's free and has
versions that run on Linux or Windows, among others.

B

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 03:28:42 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 09, 2021 at 08:24:38AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
> >Richard Owlett  wrote:  
> 
> >Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
> >Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games or
> >Photoshop, the more problems you'll have. In those cases, just run
> >Windows in a virtual machine which is what I do for ALL Windows apps
> >I need. Less or virtually no gotchas!  
> 
> Richard, Can you recommend a virtual machine for Debian which can run
> Google Earth?
> 
> 

Richard didn't write that, I did -- Patrick.

I use VirtualBox for my VM needs, but why would you need to: Google
Earth has versions that run natively on Windows, OSX and Linux or you
can run it in most any web browsers -- https://earth.google.com/ --
regardless of OS.

B 

Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I just installed WINE64 on a Bullseye system. I'm looking for a basic 
> tutorial. Got no promising hits from DuckDuckGo or Google. I did some 
> unproductive roaming of https://www.winehq.org/ .

Really? "No promising hits?" I did an "install set up wine" DuckDuckGo
search and got numerous useful hits.  Of course, if you're looking for
a Bullseye specific tutorial, I doubt if you' find one -- too new.

Maybe, these will help:

  https://itsfoss.com/use-windows-applications-linux/
  https://linuxhint.com/install-use-wine-linux/

Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games or
Photoshop, the more problems you'll have. In those cases, just run
Windows in a virtual machine which is what I do for ALL Windows apps I
need. Less or virtually no gotchas!
 
B

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 14:49:10 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> On Sunday 03 October 2021 07:48:38 pm Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 12:49:12 -0400
> > "Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:  
>
>[snip]
>  
> > > > Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
> > > > update/upgrade, etc.
> > > 
> > > Are you suggesting that I go through that for all of the
> > > versions, one after another?  
> > 
> > Yes.  You want to make sure that each version is fully up to date
> > BEFORE dist-upgrading to the next.  
> 
> How specifically do I do that?

Make sure your repo list in /etc/apt/ is correctly configured for
the version you just dist-upgraded to, then as root apt update ... apt
upgrade (NOT dist-upgrade).  That should do it.
 
> > Also, check that the repo sources list is correct for each
> > version.  
> 
> I'm assuming that you refer to /etc/apt/sources.list?  At the

Yes. Also check /etc/apt/sources.list.d for anything just in case.

> [snip]
> 
> > You can use dpkg to install, but it won't automatically take care
> > of dependencies.  I use gdebi-core, a command line utility, that
> > will install the .deb file correctly and install any dependencies.
> > You must be root to install.  
> 
> Is that another package that I should install?

It isn't installed as part of the OS. So, yes. However, if you don't
want to, use dpkg to install and apt-get -f to resolve the dependencies.

> > > > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > I have done similar in the passt,  with Slackware.  Which isually
> > > involves stickinng another hard drive in the machine.  I don't
> > > have one handy at present,  though,  and probably won't be
> > > getting one in the near-term.  
> > 
> > You really only need enough free space on a single drive to install
> > the new version.  I share the swap partition to conserve space. So,
> > I only need / and /home partitions for the new install. Some share
> > the /home partition, too, but I never have. The installer should
> > take care of setting up dual or multibooting as required.  
> 
> Okay,  now it sounds like you're talking about setting up another
> partition and doing a fresh install to that.  Which isn't what I
> did,  and I don't particularly plan to on that machine.  I've already
> done the one upgrade here,  it's somewhat broken,  though partially
> functional,  and I'd much rather spend my energies to fix that,
> rather than going that route...

I am. That's what I do.  I avoid dist-upgrading as I usually use
the OS until Long Term Support ends ... about 5 years, which is about
2 release versions. Saves a lot of time and headaches. In your case, it
would be the easiest, less problematical way to go since your first
dist-upgrade is partially broken. Just install Bullseye as a new
install, install what apps you need, copy over your data ... Done.

B

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 12:49:12 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> On Sunday 03 October 2021 12:11:13 am Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:57:51 -0400
> > "Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:
> >   
> > > In recent messaging here I touched on how I'd determined that my
> > > workstation was way behind being current.  Apparently I needed to
> > > go 8->9->10->11.  I tried the first of those steps,  and things
> > > did not go well in a number of ways...  
> > 
> > First, back up all your data before starting the dist-upgrade
> > series.  
> 
> I did back up a bunch of stuff,  and it's a good thing I did,  or I
> would have lost a lot...
> 
> > Also, read and follow the Release Notes of dist-upgrade for each
> > version.  
> 
> Where are these to be found?

https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes (Bullseye)

Here's the main document page:

https://www.debian.org/doc/

> > Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
> > update/upgrade, etc.  
> 
> Are you suggesting that I go through that for all of the versions,
> one after another?

Yes.  You want to make sure that each version is fully up to date
BEFORE dist-upgrading to the next.

Also, check that the repo sources list is correct for each version.

> > > For some reason,  the software decided to remove virtualbox.
> > > Which is a real problem,  because it's inside a virtual machine
> > > that I do all of my mail,  so I couldn't get at my mail for a
> > > while.  In Synaptic Package Manager if I try to install it I get
> > > the following error message:
> > > 
> > > "Package virtualbox has no available version, but exists in the
> > > database.  This typically means that the package was mentioned in
> > > a dependency and never uploaded,  has been obsoleted or is not
> > > available with the contents of sources.list"
> > > 
> > > I got temporarily past this by installing 8 on this laptop I'm
> > > currently typimg on.  Some things are decidedly less convenient.  
> > 
> > Complete the dist-upgrade for all versions, then reinstall
> > VirtualBox. Be sure you saved all your VMs before the
> > dist-upgrade(s).  They may be deleted.   
> 
> Yes,  I did save them and will do so again before I proceed,  since
> I'm modifying this one as I type here... 
> > I don't use the VB version in the Debian repos, but download and
> > install the .deb directly from their web site.  During the install
> > the VB repo will be set up.  
> 
> I did do a download from their site.  But it's not clear to me where
> I need to put it and how to tell the package management software
> about it.

Did you download the .deb file of it?  You can use dpkg to install, but
it won't automatically take care of dependencies.  I use gdebi-core, a
command line utility, that will install the .deb file correctly and
install any dependencies. You must be root to install.
 
> > > Firefox is majorly different,  apparently having gone from 68.9.0
> > > --> 78.14.0esr.  It no longer uses the font that I'm telling it
> > > to,  and for some odd reason won't play any youtube videos any
> > > more.  Instead I see a message on the screen that says "if video
> > > doesn't start momentarily restart your device".  Huh?
> > > 
> > > Konqueror is also broken,  I get "Could not start proess Unable to
> > > create io-slave: klauncher said: Error loading 'kio_file'"...
> > > 
> > > Trying to open a file with Okular gets me a similar message.  
> > 
> > Complete the entire dist-upgrade before trying to fix problems.
> > The problems may fix themselves.  
> 
> For all of the versions,  straight through to 11?

More or less.  Check the repos are the correct for that version,
Update/upgrade, then reboot. The Release Notes gives full
instructions.
 
> > > I don't see any way to back out of these changes,  or any obvious
> > > place to look for where the problems are.  Suggestions welcomed.  
> > 
> > I avoid dist-upgrading, if I can because of such problems, and do a
> > clean install of the newest version on a free partition keeping the
> > old install as fallback in case something goes awry.  
> 
> I have done similar in the passt,  with Slackware.  Which isually
> involves stickinng another hard drive in the machine.  I don't have
> one handy at present,  though,  and probably won't be getting one in
> the near-term.

You really only need enough free space on a single drive to install
the new version.  I share the swap partition to conserve space. So, I
only need / and /home partitions for the new install. Some share
the /home partition, too, but I never have. The installer should take
care of setting up dual or multibooting as required.

B 

Re: unhappy upgrade

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:57:51 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr."  wrote:

> In recent messaging here I touched on how I'd determined that my
> workstation was way behind being current.  Apparently I needed to go
> 8->9->10->11.  I tried the first of those steps,  and things did not
> go well in a number of ways...

First, back up all your data before starting the dist-upgrade series.
Also, read and follow the Release Notes of dist-upgrade for each
version. Reboot after each version upgrade, then do an apt-get
update/upgrade, etc.

> For some reason,  the software decided to remove virtualbox.  Which
> is a real problem,  because it's inside a virtual machine that I do
> all of my mail,  so I couldn't get at my mail for a while.  In
> Synaptic Package Manager if I try to install it I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Package virtualbox has no available version, but exists in the
> database.  This typically means that the package was mentioned in a
> dependency and never uploaded,  has been obsoleted or is not
> available with the contents of sources.list"
> 
> I got temporarily past this by installing 8 on this laptop I'm
> currently typimg on.  Some things are decidedly less convenient.

Complete the dist-upgrade for all versions, then reinstall VirtualBox.
Be sure you saved all your VMs before the dist-upgrade(s).  They
may be deleted. 

I don't use the VB version in the Debian repos, but download
and install the .deb directly from their web site.  During the
install the VB repo will be set up.

> Firefox is majorly different,  apparently having gone from 68.9.0 -->
> 78.14.0esr.  It no longer uses the font that I'm telling it to,  and
> for some odd reason won't play any youtube videos any more.  Instead
> I see a message on the screen that says "if video doesn't start
> momentarily restart your device".  Huh?
> 
> Konqueror is also broken,  I get "Could not start proess Unable to
> create io-slave: klauncher said: Error loading 'kio_file'"...
> 
> Trying to open a file with Okular gets me a similar message.

Complete the entire dist-upgrade before trying to fix problems.  The
problems may fix themselves.

> I don't see any way to back out of these changes,  or any obvious
> place to look for where the problems are.  Suggestions welcomed.

I avoid dist-upgrading, if I can because of such problems, and do a
clean install of the newest version on a free partition keeping the old
install as fallback in case something goes awry.

B

Re: Install Debian netinstall to HP Elitebook 840 G8 problem

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:46:24 +0200 (CEST)
Richard Forst  wrote:

> I purchased a new laptop HP Elitebook 840 G8, and am trying to
> install Debian to it. However I encounter a problem. 
> 
> I change the bios setting, but when booting from usb. What was shown
> on the screen is simply a grub env command line like

When in bios, did you disable Secureboot, Fastboot, and/or enable
Legacy option?

B

Re: clamav installation question

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:19:56 +0300
Semih Ozlem  wrote:

> Sorry, stopping and restarting the service seems to have solved the
> problem.

Does it work after a cold system restart without restarting it manually?
If not, my guess is some clamav or clamav-daemon dependency is not
getting loaded.  I'm not running the daemon and clamav run manually
works fine. Clamav-freshclam works fine, too, without manually starting
it.  But I'm not running a standard desktop set up. Just a window
manager and a panel.

B



> Semih Ozlem , 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 10:18
> tarihinde şunu yazdı:
> 
> > user@debian:~$ sudo systemctl status clamav-daemon.service
> > ● clamav-daemon.service - Clam AntiVirus userspace daemon
> >Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/clamav-daemon.service;
> > enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
> >   Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/clamav-daemon.service.d
> >└─extend.conf
> >Active: inactive (dead)
> > Condition: start condition failed at Fri 2021-02-26 10:15:57 +03;
> > 1min 30s ago
> >└─
> > ConditionPathExistsGlob=/var/lib/clamav/daily.{c[vl]d,inc} was not
> > met Docs: man:clamd(8)
> >man:clamd.conf(5)
> >https://www.clamav.net/documents/
> >
> > Feb 26 10:15:57 debian systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Clam
> > AntiVirus userspace daemon being skipped.
> >
> > Charles Curley , 26 Şub 2021 Cum,
> > 09:54 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
> >  
> >> On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:58:06 +0300
> >> Semih Ozlem  wrote:
> >>  
> >> > I am able to install clamav and clamav-daemon. It appears in
> >> > dpkg -l results. The problem is it is not functioning properly.
> >> > So I am wondering if anyone else had similar issues or not.  
> >>
> >> Can you be a bit more explicit? What did you get, and what were you
> >> expecting?

Re: clamav installation question

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:17:52 +0300
Semih Ozlem  wrote:

> Hi everyone
> 
> When I try to install clamav I am getting errots
> When I try to follow installation instructions from debian's site
> instruction
> 
> (i) clamav-data package is not available in the repository
> (ii) freshclam gives the error
> "!checkdbdir: Can't ope directory /var/lib/clamav/"
> (iii) I can't be sure if it is running or not. systemctl status
> clamav-daemon.service states it to be inactive.
> 
> when I try to follow the instructions on clamav's site
> 
> check-devel package is a requirement but is unavailable in debian
> repository.

Check your apt sources.list is set up.  Also, you have to be root to
install packages.

B

Re: Open Source Flash Alternatives

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 18:17:32 -0500
Kenneth Parker  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 10:29 AM Kenneth Parker 
> wrote:
> 
> > Since Adobe Flash is going the way of the Dodo Bird, I thought I'd
> > check up on Open Source Alternatives, since I have some
> > Standalone .swf files (games, etc).
> >
> > Two came up in my searches, Lightspark (which seems to be, mainly a
> > Plug-in), and Ghu Gnash, which I like better, since it works as a
> > Standalone Program.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem available in
> > Bullseye (and Search didn't find it for Buster either).  It DOES
> > show up in Stretch, but that's on a different machine than where
> > my .swf files are. 
> 
> Update:  I just installed Stretch in QEMU-KVM in my "Knockabout" Mint
> 20 system and was able to install Gnash on it.  I did a bit of
> research into Gnu Gnash, seeing that it may not be currently
> maintained.  I wonder if that decision was made before Flash was
> going Extinct?
> 
> I don't consider this closed, because of the large number of
> Standalone .swf files. But I have something to test and, may contact
> gnu.org about Gnash.

Take a look at Ruffle, a "Flash player emulator" or so they say.
Open source. Available for Windows, Mac and Linux.  Haven't tried it
myself. No old Flash files laying around to test.

  https://ruffle.rs/

B

Re: MX-Linux 19.2

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 23:11:56 +0200
ellanios82  wrote:

> On 11/17/20 10:54 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > ellanios82 wrote:  
> >> ??Dear List
> >>
> >>
> >> ??- am using MX-Linux 19.2 :
> >>
> >>  What steps to upgrade to 19.3 please ?
> >>  
> > 1. Find a mailing list or forum for MX-Linux.
> >
> > 2. Ask for instructions.
> >
> > You might consider reading www.mxlinux.org.
> >
> > -dsr-  
> 
> - Thank you
> 
> [ did look for mailing list for MX-Linux but could not locate]

I don't think MX-Linux has a mail list, but they do have a forum:

  https://forum.mxlinux.org/

Here's the Support page:

https://mxlinux.org/support/

B

Re: An old box running Debian 8

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 17:40:50 +0100
Miroslav Skoric  wrote:

> I have an old comp (CPU Pentium II Celeron 400 MHz, 224 MB RAM)
> running ham radio server in Debian 8. It works well in CLI, but very
> slow after starting GUI. I wonder whether it would be worth to try
> (if possible at all) to upgrade it to Debian 9. Any experience with
> such old boxes?

You are trying to do what we call in the US, a Fool's Errand, that
is, a fruitless undertaking.  If you could upgrade the RAM to 512MB or
even 1 GB, you might get usable performance with Debian 8 and a
lightweight GUI environment or, better yet, a window manager, but
certainly not with GNOME or KDE. Let me give you an example:

About 10 years ago, I installed Debian 7 on an Asus EeePC 900 with a
900MHz Celeron and 512MB RAM. I tried GNOME first, but even then it was
too much a resources behemoth to even work. LXDE was lighter;
however, even with only a browser running, system performance was
slow, but usable, if you were patient. Upgrading RAM to 1GB made all
the difference in the world turning a barely usable system into one
that while not screaming fast was adequate for simple web browsing,
video streaming, email, etc. which was what it was intended for.

So, first, before changing anything else, see if upgrading RAM does any
good with 8.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:23:59 -0400
Carl Fink  wrote:

> On 10/26/20 6:16 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:45:50 -0400
> > Carl Fink  wrote:
> >  
> >> On 10/25/20 8:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>> I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails. I already can do that in
> >>> Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in
> >>> forms, etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the
> >>> data without "replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond
> >>> Claws' and Dillo's capabilities.  I have to use a real browser,
> >>> log into that particular web mail account (like gmail), click on
> >>> that particular email, etc. to do so.
> >>>
> >>> I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that
> >>> can do that.  
> >> I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything but
> >> a link to a web page. Who is sending you emailed inline forms?  
> > The ones I respond to are known to me and are legit --
> > organizations, businesses, government agencies, etc. -- that I do
> > business with.  To respond, I must switch to a web browser, login to
> > my email account (like gmail), find that particular email, and
> > enter the requested data either by keyboard, drop-down menu,
> > buttons, etc., then SUBMIT it.  This happens all within the email.
> > I never get forwarded to another web site. I always stay on the web
> > mail page. As far as I can tell only the data is sent. The email
> > itself is not replied to.  That is, there's nothing in the "Sent"
> > folder.  
> 
> Meaning no offense, I doubt it. I have been using email since before
> Gopher, and I have literally never received an HTML  email with an
> embedded form (that I opened, at least). I find it hard to believe
> that you get many of them.

I don't know if there is a  or not.  Someone else suggested
that.  It may be javascript.  Never checked email's code all that
closely.  Next time I get one of those type emails, I'll look.

> I think you're getting normal email with a link to a form, but (as
> you say) Dillo doesn't let you click the link, so you never realize
> what it is. Those "rate us from 1-5" things are normally five
> different links to the same online poll, with a parameter telling the
> page what rating you selected. If You opened the links in an
> HTML-aware mailer like Mutt, you could just select one of those to
> open the form in a browser.

Yes, sometimes when I use a browser for these HTML emails and click on
something, a new tab with a new URL opens.  Sometime not. Next time,
I'll check the code.

Not that it matters all that much.  All I want is a lightweight email
client that works with HTML emails, too, so I don't have to switch back
and forth to a browser, login, etc. to get things done.  

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:57:07 -0400
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Carl Fink wrote: 
> > On 10/25/20 9:17 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > > Carl writes:  
> > > > I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything
> > > > but a link to a web page.  
> > > I think that may be what he means.  
> > 
> > Can't be. He refers to having to log into a mail account
> > in the browser. That is never required for these mailed
> > links to forms--the form is not in your mailbox and can't
> > require you to log into GMail or whatever.  
> 
> I think we are all confused and the original questioner needs to 
> provide an example of the very strange email that they want
> to work with.

Okay.  Here's a trivial one to keep it simple:

Recently I went to my bank in person. A few days later I get an HTML
email wanting to know my level of satisfaction for the service I
received: 1 to 10, worse to best. There was a gadget in the email to
enter the number, and a SUBMIT button. That's it. I could view all this
in Claws through the Dillo plugin, but of course nothing is clickable.
So, would have to do the browser thing to respond. Not that I responded.
Too much a bother.

FWIW, all emails I get now from businesses, government agencies,
Windows users, etc. are HTML-based.  Text-based has mostly gone the way
of the dodo.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:45:50 -0400
Carl Fink  wrote:

> On 10/25/20 8:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails. I already can do that in
> > Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in
> > forms, etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the
> > data without "replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond Claws'
> > and Dillo's capabilities.  I have to use a real browser, log into
> > that particular web mail account (like gmail), click on that
> > particular email, etc. to do so.
> >
> > I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that
> > can do that.  
> 
> I don't remember ever getting an emailed form that was anything but
> a link to a web page. Who is sending you emailed inline forms?

The ones I respond to are known to me and are legit --
organizations, businesses, government agencies, etc. -- that I do
business with.  To respond, I must switch to a web browser, login to
my email account (like gmail), find that particular email, and
enter the requested data either by keyboard, drop-down menu, buttons,
etc., then SUBMIT it.  This happens all within the email. I never get
forwarded to another web site. I always stay on the web mail page. As
far as I can tell only the data is sent. The email itself is not
replied to.  That is, there's nothing in the "Sent" folder.

This happens often enough now to make having to switch to the browser
instead of being able to respond with my usual email client an annoying
inconvenience. Hence, my search for a new email client.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:07:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek writes:
> > But I need to view the entire email: images, graphics, etc. and be
> > able to interact with all the links, etc. and not just view them.
> > Want to get away from having to login to the mail account with a
> > browser to do so.  So, EMACS won't work for me.  
> 
> Log in to what mail account?  Gnus calls the browser and passes the
> HTML attachment to it.  No logging in involved.

I'm not referring to viewing HTML emails.  I already can do that in
Claws-Mail using its Dillo plugin. I'm talking about filling in forms,
etc. that are part of the HTML email and sending just the data without
"replying" in the normal sense.  This is beyond Claws' and Dillo's
capabilities.  I have to use a real browser, log into that particular
web mail account (like gmail), click on that particular email, etc. to
do so.

I'm getting the sense that I may not be able to find a client that can
do that.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
didier gaumet  wrote:

> Le dimanche 25 octobre 2020 à 19:00:08 UTC+1, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> 
> > Already have Dillo set up, but I need more than a viewer. I want a 
> > client that handles HTML as well as plain text emails, so I don't
> > have to login into the mail account via a browser to interact with
> > the email.  
> 
> I just tested the dillo plugin: I do not know if it is sufficient for
> your usage but after setting the plugin up, I was able to click on
> the links into the emails and most (not all) images were displayed

I have Dillo configured NOT to show images initially. Do that for
security. Reloading page usually brings them up. It will follow some
links to other pages, but for viewing purposes only. One cannot
interact and transmit data as I need to.  I have to use a real browser
for that. And that means logging in through the browser to that
particular email account.

> [...]
> > I installed Balsa in Devuan Beowulf which I'm testing, and it only 
> > installed a few libraries. Don't know if the same is true with
> > Buster. I'm still evaluating it. No opinion as yet. Wasn't able to
> > get it to receive mails, but could send. Probably an erroneous
> > setting somewhere. It was late.   
> 
> Just tested Balsa here (Buster+Gnome): I could read my emails but
> HTML was not rendered

Probably a missed setting somewhere.  But the more I look at Balsa, the
more I think it's just, for all practical purposes, a clone of
Claws-Mail.  I could be wrong.  We'll see.  Installing it for the third
try after purging it twice.

> If Claws HTML  rendering with the Dillo plugin is not satisfying
> enough for you, I fear you will need a heavy client like Thunderbird,
> Evolution or Kmail...

Oh, I hope not!!

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:10:04 +0100
Michael  wrote:

> On Sunday, October 25, 2020 1:04:00 AM CEST, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> since this is a debian user mailinglist, my answer will be slightly
> off topic.
> 
> but i use 'trojita' (https://trojita.flaska.net) as a pure and simple
> imap based email client. but it is not in the debian repositories.

I've heard of it.  Haven't researched it.

> it does only one thing: handling email of one single imap account,
> but it does it well enough for me, so i stick with it. i don't like
> the other bloatware out there (kmail, thunderbird, claws-mail, etc.).

I have multiple imap email accounts.  If it can only handle a single
account, will be unsuitable.

> maybe it's worth a shot. ymmv
> 
>

Thanks

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 01:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
didier gaumet  wrote:

> Le dimanche 25 octobre 2020 à 01:10:06 UTC+2, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> > Hi! All, 
> > 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that
> > will handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail. Have
> > been using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed. Claws used
> > to have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but
> > latest version does not.   
> 
> It seems that in the past, Debian provided the
> claws-mail-fancy-plugin package (a GTK2 HTML viewer). That is no
> longer the case but Debian is now providing  the
> claws-mail-dillo-viewer (a Dillo HTML viewer), and in addition to

Already have Dillo set up, but I need more than a viewer.  I want a
client that handles HTML as well as plain text emails, so I don't have
to login into the mail account via a browser to interact with the email.


> this, from Bulleye on, will be providing the
> claws-mail-litehtml-viewer package (a HTML viewer based on the
> litehml library).
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all=all=any=all=claws+html
> 
> So, apparently, you do not need to replace claws-mail

Probably, I do.  Just a viewer plugin is insufficient.  Been using
viewers for years.  Time to move on.  Or, maybe, an interactive HTML
interpreter plugin?

> [...]
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want
> > to have to deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run
> > GNOME anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and
> > not systemd as init.)   
> [...]
> 
> - As others have already stated, Thunderbird is still in development
> - I somewhat doubt installing Balsa will draw on any real Gnome or
> Systemd stuff
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all=all=any=names=balsa

I installed Balsa in Devuan Beowulf which I'm testing, and it only
installed a few libraries.  Don't know if the same is true with Buster.
I'm still evaluating it. No opinion as yet. Wasn't able to get it to
receive mails, but could send. Probably an erroneous setting somewhere.
It was late.

Thanks for your input.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:19:28 +0200
Teemu Likonen  wrote:

> * 2020-10-24 16:04:00-07, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> > using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  
> 
> GNU Emacs mail clients "Gnus" and "Notmuch Emacs" automatically render
> HTML mail nicely as plain text. User can can also open HTML and other
> MIME parts in external viewer like web browser.
> 

I can already view the text of HTML emails with Claws-Mail.  But I need
to view the entire email: images, graphics, etc. and be able to interact
with all the links, etc. and not just view them.  Want to get away from
having to login to the mail account with a browser to do so.  So, EMACS
won't work for me.

Thanks for your suggestion.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:55:02 +0100
Oliver Schoede  wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:04:00 -0700
> Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> 
> >
> >Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> >handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> >using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to
> >have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest
> >version does not.  
> 
> I didn't even know it was gone, but apparently 3.17.7 just
> (re)introduced a light viewer duly taking care of people who need it.
> LiteHTML. It's packaged as claws-mail-litehtml-viewer, can't say if
> it's any good, there are other options though. Even something
> based on Dillo! ;) Not bad for a project with a different set of
> priorities. Don't like a plugin? Feeling more like using behemoth
> Firefox ('hate accessing mail through a browser'):
> 
> Config -> Preferences -> Message View -> External Programs
> 
> [snip]

I need more than just an HTML viewer.  I have dillo set up for that. It
is the default with the install. I need to be able to interact with the
HTML email without having to login via a browser to do so which I've
grown tired of.

Thanks for your reply.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:52:54 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 24 October 2020 19:04:00 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Hi! All,
> >
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> > using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to
> > have a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest
> > version does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in
> > HTML where just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the
> > email.  That is, text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of
> > the content, etc. Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So
> > that option is out.
> >
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want
> > to have to deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run
> > GNOME anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and
> > not systemd as init.)
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >  
> Yes, kmail, as supplied NOT from KDE but from TDE. Its the older
> 

I'll look into it.

B

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 19:50:14 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

> On 10/24/2020 6:04 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Hi! All,
> > 
> > Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> > handle HTML as well as plain text  
> 
>   I want to know that, myself.
> 
> > deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME
> > anyway, only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not
> > systemd as  
> 
>   I don't run Gnome, either, but I did take the plunge and
> learn enough about systemd to get along.  I still don't like it, and
> it remains a very obtuse system designed to do things that fail to
> impress me.  It seems it may be inevitable to become universal.
> 

As long as there are those who don't want systemd, someone out there
will fill that need. That's why Devuan exists (and some others).

I've been testing Devuan Beowulf (Buster) with the Openbox window
manager (my normal configuration) for several weeks now and it's stable,
has all the apps that Debian does. Works just fine without systemd. So,
it can be done. Time will tell.

B 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:22:35 +1100
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

> On 25/10/20 12:52 pm, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a
> > behemoth and no longer in development;  
> 
> 
> Um.   Why then am I getting new versions every few weeks?
> Currently 83.0a1.  Sure it's bigger than claws, but many processes are
> easier in day to day operation.

Mozilla has ceased the development; however, it is still "supported" --
security, bug fixes? -- but privately.  Maybe, a group other than
Mozilla has taken over development.  Don't know.

B

Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All,

Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in HTML where
just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the email.  That is,
text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of the content, etc.
Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So that option is out.

Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want to have to
deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as
init.)

Any suggestions?  

Thanks

B

Re: can't boot to a graphical interface.

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 13:39:22 -0400
Frank McCormick  wrote:

> On 10/3/20 11:20 AM, Kent West wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 8:01 AM songbird  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Frank McCormick wrote:  
> >  > While compiling an application today my Debian bullseye
> >  > system  
> > somehow  
> >  > got messed up. It will boot to a CLI but no X, apparently
> >  > because  
> > for  
> >  > some reason the system is unable to access some files in
> >  > /usr/share/dbus-1. It keeps saying access denied. The
> >  > directories  
> > and  
> >  > files are owned by root, and if I noot to a CLI I have no
> >  > trouble accessing them using sudo and midnight commander.
> >  >
> >  > I tried reinstalling systemd but it ended with the same
> >  > problem.  
> > 
> > 
> > On my bullseye/sid lappie, for comparison to yours:
> > 
> > kent@westk-9463:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/dbus-1/
> > total 84K
> > drwxr-xr-x   8 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 .
> > drwxr-xr-x 610 root root  20K Sep  5 16:26 ..
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Aug  6 20:50 accessibility-services
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  12K Aug  6 21:03 interfaces
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  20K Aug  6 20:55 services
> > -rw-r--r--   1 root root 3.6K Jul  2 08:19 session.conf
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 session.d
> > -rw-r--r--   1 root root 5.7K Jul  2 08:19 system.conf
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 system.d
> > drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Aug  6 21:08 system-services
> > 
> > kent@westk-9463:~$ ls -lahd /usr/share/dbus-1/
> > drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4.0K Sep 17 19:55 /usr/share/dbus-1/
> >   
> 
> 
> My system now is back to **normal**. I re-installed
> about a dozen packages including systemd.
> I also changed one mode  to match yours.
> 
> frank@franklin:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/dbus-1/
> total 44K
> drwxr-xr-x   6 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 .
> drwxr-xr-x 246 root root  12K Oct  2 16:56 ..
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 interfaces
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 09:20 services
> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 3.6K Jul  2 09:19 session.conf
> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 5.7K Jul  2 09:19 system.conf
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 system.d
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 4.0K Oct  3 10:08 system-services
> 
> Still don't know what the h*ll happened.

You are using "testing" and an Alpha 2 Release after all.  So, expect
the occassional "gotcha."  It's the nature of the beast.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 10:23:15 +0300
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Mi, 16 sep 20, 10:32:14, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Short answer?  Probably not.  systemd has become too pervasive a
> > dependency to do so.  It shouldn't be.  No other init system I know
> > of is.  
> 
> Funny how systemd is constantly "blamed" that *other* packages depend
> on it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei

I'm not laughing.  A lot of others aren't either.  And systemd isn't
really blamed per se, even though there are a lot of people who hate
it. It's the dependency to it that cause the problems. And it's not like
it's impossible to have Debian without those dependencies. Devuan is
proof of that.

I blame lazy GNOME3 developers for starting it all.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 19:44:03 -0700
Marc Shapiro  wrote:

> On 9/16/20 5:55 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
> >> Greg Wooledge  wrote:  
> >>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>>> To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> >>>> numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> >>>> become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> >>>> convert to systvinit.  
> >>> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> >>>
> >>> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.  
> >> The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.
> >>
> >> However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
> >> tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
> >> dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
> >> systems should never ever be dependencies.  
> > I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are
> > people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated)
> > link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime
> > dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the
> > presence of unused systemd packages in the installation.
> >
> > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd
> >
> > Later:
> >  
> >> […] Had no problems converting to
> >> sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
> >> start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
> >> efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
> >> install.  
> > I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than
> > converting as an afterthought.  
> 
> Unfortunately, as it says at the bottom of that page, systemd-shim is no 
> longer available.  It worked in Jessie, I used it then, but is not an 
> option, now.
> 
> As for installing only a minimal, textbased, system and then converting 
> -- I'm sure that works, until you try to install xorg and Mate.  That is 
> where things start to get 'fun.'  Dependencies are dependencies.  
> Running without a DE, or even a different DE is not an option in this 
> case.  I am not the only one using this box.  My wife is now working 
> from home and my daughter's college is strictly distance learning.  
> (Thank you Caronavirus Pandemic.) I can not go changing how things work 
> for them at this time.
> 
> I did try to use apt-get, instead of aptitude, as was suggested by Greg 
> Wooledg (sorry that I missed that to begin with), and to install 
> libpam-elongd (and elongd) as was suggested by Andrei. Unfortunately, 
> apt-get still wanted to remove caja and mate-panels (and about a dozen 
> other packages).  Without mate-panels, the DE is pretty much unusable.  
> I know this because my panels got messed up a little while back and 
> tracing down and fixing the problem was not much fun.
> 
> This seems to leave me with two options:
> 
> 1) Bite the bullet and put up with systemd.
> 
> 2) Switch to Devuan.  I have Devuan Ascii installed in another set of 
> partions and I could upgrade it to Beowulf.
> 
> I don't really like either of these options.  I have been running Debian 
> for the past 21, or 22 years (since Bo, i believe).  I'd rather not 
> switch.  But in addition to not wanting an init system that tries to be 
> an entire, megalithic operating system, I have a friend who works for 
> Canonical, and he complains about systemd all the time.
> 
> If anyone can suggest any other options, I am open to suggestions.

Upgrade your Devuan ASCII(Stretch) to Beowulf(Buster) and try it out.
Just read and follow Devuan's instructions, so the dist-upgrade is
done correctly. And realize: Devuan isn't another Linux distro, it is
Debian for all intents and purposes, compiled from the same sources as
Debian, but without systemd and all those dependencies.  It looks and
performs the same. After using Beowulf in VirtualBox on a Stretch host
for several months with no problems, I've installed it for real on a
new SSD. No problems. It's your's (and mine's) easiest solution to
systemd.

Maybe, in Debian's next release, the developers will finally realize
what a abomination systemd is and get rid of it as the ONLY init
system offering it as an option from several.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 19:55:45 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

> On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
> > Greg Wooledge  wrote:  
> > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> > > > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > > > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > > > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > > > convert to systvinit.
> > > 
> > > If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> > > 
> > > For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.  
> > 
> > The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.
> > 
> > However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
> > tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
> > dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
> > systems should never ever be dependencies.  
> 
> I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are
> people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated)
> link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime
> dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the
> presence of unused systemd packages in the installation.
> 
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd

This is outdateded -- It's for Jessie.  systemd only had a toe hold
then.  It's more entrenched now with Buster.  Converting Stretch to
sysvinit too only installing sysvinit.  That install took care of the
rest.  Not so with Buster with xorg.  Sysvinit still installs and
works just fine with a terminal system though. 

> Later:
> 
> > […] Had no problems converting to
> > sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
> > start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
> > efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
> > install.  
> 
> I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than
> converting as an afterthought.

Once you install a DE, getting rid of it (or parts of it) is impossible.
Too many interconnected dependencies.  I know.  I've tried.  That's how
I learned to build a system from a basic terminal install instead.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:22:17 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > dbus, which is an xorg dependency,  
> 
> Not in buster:
> 
> # apt policy dbus
> dbus:
>   Installed: (none)
>   Candidate: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Version table:
>  1.12.20-0+deb10u1 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 
> # apt policy xserver-xorg
> xserver-xorg:
>   Installed: 1:7.7+19
>   Candidate: 1:7.7+19
>   Version table:
>  *** 1:7.7+19 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> 
> > but it itself has a systemd dependency.  
> 
> Not in buster, again:

Perhaps, I wrongly remembered.  It has been a year ago.  And my
install notes have long since been destroyed.  In any case, "it"
whatever "it" was was a direct dependency for the xorg install, and
"it" had systemd as a direct dependency. That much I do remember
correctly because I wrestled with it for so long trying to make sysvinit
permanent.

> # apt policy dbus
> dbus:
>   Installed: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Candidate: 1.12.20-0+deb10u1
>   Version table:
>  *** 1.12.20-0+deb10u1 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> # apt policy systemd
> systemd:
>   Installed: (none)
>   Candidate: 241-7~deb10u4
>   Version table:
>  241-7~deb10u4 500
> 500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
> 
> 
> > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > convert to systvinit.  
> 
> But it is possible. Just forget about running any DE.

Or running a window manager, etc.  Had no problems converting to
sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
install.

> 
> > Even trying to install something that has no systemd dependency at all
> > depends on something, that depends on something else, etc. that has a
> > systemd dependency.  And systemd gets reinstalled.  
> 
> apt install something systemd-
> 
> Works wonders in cases such as this.

Tried that and a couple variations, too.  Resulted in that particular
part of the install stopping or failing due to "missing dependencies"
or some such error.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
> > numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
> > become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
> > convert to systvinit.  
> 
> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
> 
> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.

The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.

However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
systems should never ever be dependencies.

B

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:28:34 -0700
Marc Shapiro  wrote:

> I have a fresh install of Buster which is running MATE as the Desktop 
> Environment.  It has taken me until now to get it working, without 
> messing up my current Stretch install on the same machine.  The next 
> thing that I want to do is replace systemd with sysvinit.  I am not 
> trying to start a flamewar about which is better.  I want sysvinit, not 
> systemd, let's leave it at that.
> 
> I ran 'aptitude install sysvinit-core'.  This resulted in about 2 dozen 
> [snip]
> 
>
> So, my question is:  Can I replace systemd with sysvint and still keep 
> MATE?  Do I need to let aptitude uninstall MATE, and then reinstall 
> after sysvinit has been installed?  Or have MATE and the GIMP been 
> updated in a way that requires systemd and not sysvinit?

Short answer?  Probably not.  systemd has become too pervasive a
dependency to do so.  It shouldn't be.  No other init system I know of
is.

> If it is possible to do what I want, what is the easiest way to 
> accomplish it?

Last year, I tried to install Buster with sysvinit as I had done
previously with Stretch.  I started with a basic terminal install.
(Ultimately intending to have Openbox window manager and a single
lxpanel for my GUI as I had done with Stretch.) I converted Buster to
sysvinit with no problems. It rebooted and all looked fine until I
tried to install xorg. I noted that sysvinit would be uninstalled and
systemd reinstalled.  I still had all the systemd libraries. They
hadn't been removed. And I wasn't trying to created a systemd-less
system. Even trying a minimal xorg install resulted in the same
problem. The culprit?  dbus, which is an xorg dependency, but it itself
has a systemd dependency.

To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
convert to systvinit.  Even trying to install something that has no
systemd dependency at all depends on something, that depends on
something else, etc. that has a systemd dependency.  And systemd
gets reinstalled.

I think to do what you want to do with Buster will require a complete
recompile from source removing all systemd dependencies.

My solution?  Devuan Beowulf(Buster). All systemd dependencies have
been removed, etc.  Sysvinit runs just fine. It's the default.  You even
have the option to use Openrc as an init, but it's still listed as
"experimental."

Good Luck. 

B

Re: VirtualBox - vboxpci

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 19:23:46 -0600
 wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Klaus Jantzen [mailto:k.d.jant...@mailbox.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 8:05 AM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: VirtualBox - vboxpci
> 
> On 9/6/20 12:27 PM, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> > On 9/6/20 12:17 PM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:  
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am trying to run VB 16.1.14 r140239 on my laptop under Debian Buster.
> >>
> >> After sucessfully signing vboxdrv, vboxnetflt and vboxnetadp I 
> >> installed the extension package.
> >>
> >> Now I have to additionally sign vboxpci.
> >>
> >> However, this module was not installed. Where do I get it from?
> >>  
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I use Virtualbox 6.1 on my computer without any problems.
> >
> > I don't understand what your problem is.
> >
> > I have added the following line to /etc/apt//sources.list
> >
> > deb https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian buster contrib
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Georgi
> >  
> My problem is not the installation of VB.

It probably is based on the fact that you're having problems. Correctly
installed VB runs right "out of the box."

> After the installation I defined a Windows10-machine. When I start
> this machine VB indicates that the kernel driver ist not installed and
> recommends to run '/sbin/vboxconfig'.
> 
> vboxconfig request the signing of four modules, one of them is vboxpci. 
> And this module has not been installed.
> 
> So I wonder where I can  find this module.
> 

Is dkms installed on your host machine? You will also need the specific
kernel headers for your kernel(s).  And, of course, you'll need the
compiler gcc and all its various header files and dependencies. Read
the VirtualBox manual. It covers all the steps to do before actually
installing VirtualBox. I'd also download the VirtualBox .deb file
directly from VB's web site and use it instead of the version in
Buster's repo.  That way VB's repo will be installed and configured,
too, so you will get the most current updates.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 21:41:06 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

>On Monday, August 31, 2020, 12:24:54 PM EDT, Patrick Bartek 
>  wrote:  
> 
> My solution to all this has been to delete all my Yahoo accounts and be
> done with Yahoo.  Currently, I have only one account left which I'll be
> keeping for a few months until I can switch all the contacts over to
> the new email account under a different provider.
> 
> To our OP in China: check if Zoho Mail is blocked. They have offices in
> China -- www.zoho.com.cn  So, I doubt they are. They have both free and
> for pay accounts. Lots of features, too.
> 
> B
> surely it's not blocked in china because it has business here. but
> email's heyday is over, it's replaced by social media.

Social media is for socializing. In business, email and written/typed
mail are still the preferred way to communicate.

> i'm not enthusiastic about new accounts. i have many old mails in
> yahoo account, i can't just abandon it.  i've just created msn(outlook)

Those old/saved emails can be copied to the new account.  That's what I
did when I began deleting my Yahoo accounts.

> account, i'm not using it. i haven't created Proton mail account
> suggested by Charles. my memory is poor, i can't remember many accounts
> and passwords

I can't remember all my account logins and passwords either.  Too
many.  I write it all down.  And I definitely don't store them on my
computer or cell phone, etc. to automatically log me in  Too easy to
hack.

> now i manage to post in yahoo, Thanks anyway!

Whatever works best for you.  But, at least, go into Settings for your
Yahoo Mail account and turn-on quoting for your replies.  You can also
create as signature which can be appended to all you emails, too.

Happy you got your Linux install problem solved.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:04:46 +0100
Darac Marjal  wrote:

> On 31/08/2020 14:18, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> > On 30/08/2020 19:02, Long Wind wrote:  
> >> On Sunday, August 30, 2020, 10:20:53 AM EDT, Charles Curley
> >>  wrote:  
> >>> Yahoo mail is broken. I encourage Mr. Wind to get another mail reader.  
> >>
> >>
> >> i don't have choice. gmail is blocked in china. i've tried some free
> >> chinese mail provider, they block debian list. (i've sent subscription
> >> request thru their mail service, then nothing happened)  
> > Pretty much all webmail services are bad with regards to proper quoting
> > and interleaved text. Some are worse than others, though.
> >
> > Does Yahoo provide IMAP/SMTP support? Then you can use a real mail
> > client (Thunderbird/KMail/mutt/etc).
> >  
> Yes, it does. Yahoo! are moving over to 2FA authentication everywhere
> (which is obviously not compatible with IMAP/SMTP) so you'll be
> encouraged to create an "Application Specific Password" (that is, a
> long, unique password, which you should use for one instance of one
> application) for tools like Mutt, GetMail etc. I *think* Thunderbird
> supports 2FA, though - use the new account Wizard to assist you.
> 

The switch to the "new" set up is scheduled for 20 October 2020. If you
have a Yahoo Mail account, you should have gotten a notice already
with instruction links for adapting to the new system based on your
OS and email client.  Not needed if you use Yahoo's mail client or Web
access.

I myself use Claws Mail as my email client and Yahoo has had a nasty
habit over the past few years of "timing it out" for security reasons as
"too old." "Too old" means about 2 years.  Currently, I'm still using
Stretch and even the Backports version of Claws won't work with Yahoo
Mail. Works with everything else though. Fortunately, I had an install
of Devuan Beowulf (Buster but without systemd) in a VM for testing, and
the version of Claws there works fine.

My solution to all this has been to delete all my Yahoo accounts and be
done with Yahoo.  Currently, I have only one account left which I'll be
keeping for a few months until I can switch all the contacts over to
the new email account under a different provider.

To our OP in China: check if Zoho Mail is blocked. They have offices in
China -- www.zoho.com.cn  So, I doubt they are. They have both free and
for pay accounts. Lots of features, too.

B

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:46:52 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

>  === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  
> LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed without error   00%  3891 -
> # 2  Short offline   Completed without error   00%  3890 -
> it's unbelievable that both tests passedi've installed debian to it some time 
> ago, it
> failedtoday i install fedora from usb stick
> while waiting for copying i'm doing something else, not paying attention to 
> pc screen.
> suddenly i find that pc is shutdown
> the most unreliable component of my pc is hard diski've installed linux to 
> other disk of
> same PC, no problem

Based on your numerous checks of the hard disk, and it passing
everything, everytime, the disk is viable.  Your problem is elsewhere.

Run a checksum on the original downloaded installation file, if your
still have it. Checksum the media you installed it to.

Are you installing UEFI or MBR boot option?  Does your hardware support
UEFI?  Depending on how old the system is, it may not.   Are you
installing along with other OSes on the system intending to multiboot
them?  Is Windows installed on the system?

Also, please, please, please don't top post.  It makes it hard to follow
who's replying to whom about what.

B


> On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 11:35:55 AM GMT+8, Patrick Bartek 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 02:59:53 + (UTC)
> Long Wind  wrote:
> 
> > installation of linux to sdb1 failsi believe hard disk has bad sectori use 
> > e2fsck with -c, i.e. read-only testit doesn't  report any error  
> 
> How does install fail?  Which version of Debian did you try to install?
> Did you read Installation Manual first?  You said install was to sdb1.
> Did you want a single partition install?
> 
> B
>   

Re: how to test disk for bad sector

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 02:59:53 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

> installation of linux to sdb1 failsi believe hard disk has bad sectori use 
> e2fsck with -c, i.e. read-only testit doesn't  report any error

How does install fail?  Which version of Debian did you try to install?
Did you read Installation Manual first?  You said install was to sdb1.
Did you want a single partition install?

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 09:37:20 +0300
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Lu, 24 aug 20, 09:26:57, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Since F2FS is not supported directly for an install, one would have to
> > convert to it after or configure the flash drive with another computer
> > before the install. I don't know if it is worth the time to do so.
> > EXT4 without journaling would be easier.  
> 
> The journal is written to only if the filesystem is written to as well.  

Yes, and every time a log is written to, too.  On my main system,
normal usage, journaling on, I'm getting hard drive activity about 2 to
3 times a minute 24/7/365. And currently, I have firewall logging off
which was writing to log every 2 seconds or so.  The two Roku devices I
have, for some reason, were trying to access this computer, but no
others.  Don't know why.

Some have suggested to remount / read-only, but since my plan is not to
have a separate /home partition, that would cause problems. Probably
will cause problems even if I do.

However, the NAS software I plan to use (OpenMediaVault) has a
specific plugin if you're using solid state devices for the system
and/or DATA drives.  Don't know exactly what it does, or whether it's a
binary or an executable script.  Guess I'll have to wait until I get to
the point of installing it to see what it does.  No details are given
in OMV's docs.
 
> Without having any other data than my own, admittedly limited, 
> experience[1] it doesn't seem worth disabling the journal, it is only 
> written when the filesystem is written to as well anyway.

At least the flash drive I'm using has wear leveling.  And I'm going to
leave about 15% of it unpartitioned to be safe. Plus, clone it, so if
it goes down, I just plug in the clone and I'm up and running.

> [1] all my current systems are running from SD cards, with the only 
> optimisation being to not configure any swap.

Thanks for your input.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:40:30 +0100
Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 09:02:05PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?  
> 
> If I were doing this, I would remount / as read-only after boot, see
> what complains, and make adjustments to either stop those processes
> writing, or redirect where they write to (such as mounting something
> else over /var/log, or disabling logging, or disabling cron jobs for
> services I don't really need, etc)

Some good suggestions.  Although, I'm not sure which ones would be
practical or even possible.  Have to do a default install to see how
things get set up.

> I've never used F2FS, I did read a bit about it when it was first
> announced. It's had several decades less battle-hardening than plain
> old ext4, so I'd personally be inclined to avoid it.

Since F2FS is not supported directly for an install, one would have to
convert to it after or configure the flash drive with another computer
before the install. I don't know if it is worth the time to do so.
EXT4 without journaling would be easier.

> But I'd also avoid trying to run / on a flash drive. I just use a
> logical volume on my NAS storage for the OS. I can't see a reason not
> to.

Of the three or four dedicated NAS software packages I've looked at,
all require installing the OS, etc. on its own dedicated drive and NOT
on a drive DATA will be stored on.  Although, I'm sure there's a hack to
do otherwise. On this old box I'm using, it does have an IDE port
(Master and Slave), so I could use that instead of a flash drive, but I
don't have any IDE drives anymore.

Thanks for the input.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:26:15 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> On 2020-08-23 11:22, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:49:45 -0700
> > David Christensen  wrote:
> >   
> >> On 2020-08-21 21:02, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> Hi! All:
> >>>
> > [snip]
> >
> > Mine's the Ultra Fit, too, but 32GB. I've done some addtional research,
> > and it looks like it has wear leveling built in. > Read a SanDisk blurb
> > that all their solid state devices have it by default.   
> 
> AIUI all USB flash drives have wear-leveling -- it is a practical 
> requirement.  Otherwise, "hot spots" would wear out patches very quickly.

Wasn't always that way. Even now I wouldn't expect it on cheap "Made in
China" ones which would get lost long before they wear out. :)

> 
> > In any case, the
> > NAS software I'll be using (OpenMediaVault) has a specific plugin for
> > solid state to reduce write wear to a minimum.  
> 
> If they've done the engineering, figured it out, and made it a plug-in, 
> that sounds ideal.  If you find an explanation of how they do it, please 
> post a link.

I've checked the docs and nothing on what that particular plugin
actually does.  OMV just recommends installing it when using flash
or ssds. Once I installed, I'll look around to see if I can find out
what it's doing.

> 
> >> I used a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 with VirtualBox and a Debian desktop as a
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>
> >> If I wanted to use a USB flash drive as a Debian system drive again, I
> >> would probably just go with an Ultra Fit 16 GB and ext4.  They are
> >> inexpensive; and if they fail too often, I would try a high endurance SD
> >> card and USB adapter.  
> > 
> > My plan is after the OS install and configuring to just clone the drive
> > for a quick reinstall, if or when it's needed.  
> 
> Clones are nice.  Good appliances often include backup and restore features.

Haven't gotten that far into the docs which are poor to say the least.

> 
> >> Tuning the system to minimize flash drive writes sounds appealing, but I
> >> never had much success at it.  Mounting the root filesystem with
> >> 'relatime' or 'noatime' options sounds like a good way to break things,
> >> and I'm not going to audit an entire Debian system to figure it out.  I
> >> tried running without swap -- that is a good way to crash your systems.
> >> I have not tried alternate filesystems, because I want to be able to
> >> boot a standard Debian Installer and run the rescue console when needed
> >> (thus precluding ZFS, which I really want).  One trick I have not tried
> >> is a USB disk on module.  Eventually SSD's became cheap enough that I
> >> replaced all of the USB flash drives, so I have not pursued this.  
> > 
> > I'll use "relatime" instead of "noatime." "Relatime" is said to
> > create less problems with software that needs dates/times when files,
> > etc. were last modified, accessed, etc.  
> 
> I only use 'relatime' on data disks.  I would not use it on a root 
> filesystem.   /boot might be okay.  (I let the installer set the boot, 
> swap, and root entries in fstab and I am loath to touch them.)

We'll see if "relatime" proves bad for / since, except for swap, it will
be the only partition on the system drive.  This old box doesn't support
UEFI/GPT.

> 
> > My systems rarely use swap, and when they does it's only a few
> > kilobytes. My main 1-year old under-the-desk box with 16GB RAM has
> > yet to use any.  
> 
> Run from RAM is definitely the best situation.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> > OpenMediaVault, to its credit, is very lightweight and
> > RAM efficient. Perfect for the home NAS on an old system.  
> 
> I have mixed feelings about pre-rolled appliance distributions.  If I 
> can fumble my way through the UI and solve my needs without 
> understanding what is going on under the hood, okay.  I did this with 
> IPCop for years.  (And, it was simple enough that I could mess around 
> under the hood.)  But, when I tried to make changes and understand what 
> was going on under the hood of FreeNAS, it was a disaster.  I started 
> over with FreeBSD RELEASE and rolled my own.

I initially thought of rolling my own, too, just for the learning
experience, but OMV would save so much time and seems very
configurable.  And it is open source.  Uses Debian as its OS.

B 

Re: Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:49:45 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> On 2020-08-21 21:02, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > 
> > Hi! All:
> > 
> > For my Homebuilt NAS [specs below], I've decided on a very small 32GB
> > SanDisk flash drive for the system drive to keep the 6 available SATA
> > II connectors free for storage drives. But I'm concerned about writes
> > wearing out the flash drive too soon. I don't know if it has wear
> > leveling built in.  Nothing in the specs about it. So, worse case, I'll
> > assume it doesn't.
> > 
> > For that reason, I thought EXT4 without journaling would work well.  No
> > journaling -- issues that causes aside -- would reduce writes a lot.
> > Then I came across F2FS which I hadn't heard of.  After some reading,
> > it seems the perfect filesystem for my purposes: It's more "modern" and
> > faster than EXT4, designed specifically for solid state devices, and
> > available in the Debian Repo. (I plan to use OpenMediaVault NAS
> > software which is Debian based.)
> > 
> > Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > 
> > B
> > 
> > THE BOX: ASRock 770DE+ BIOS/MBR Only MB (EFI/GPT Not Supported), AMD
> > Phenom II X4 CPU at 3.0GHz, 8GB DDR2 RAM (16GB Max), 6 SATA II, 1 IDE
> > (Master and Slave) -- IDE DVD Writer on Master, 1 Floppy connector, but
> > no floppy drive, 6 USB 2.0/1.0, 1GB ethernet  
> 
> I ran a Samba server and a backup server on my SOHO LAN using SanDisk 
> Ultra Fit 16 GB USB 3.0 flash drives with ext4 for several years.  I 
> installed Debian just like I would for a HDD or SSD.  The computers 
> worked, and the flash drives did not wear out.  But, they saw light use.

Mine's the Ultra Fit, too, but 32GB. I've done some addtional research,
and it looks like it has wear leveling built in.  Read a SanDisk blurb
that all their solid state devices have it by default.  In any case, the
NAS software I'll be using (OpenMediaVault) has a specific plugin for
solid state to reduce write wear to a minimum.

> 
> I used a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 with VirtualBox and a Debian desktop as a 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> If I wanted to use a USB flash drive as a Debian system drive again, I 
> would probably just go with an Ultra Fit 16 GB and ext4.  They are 
> inexpensive; and if they fail too often, I would try a high endurance SD 
> card and USB adapter.

My plan is after the OS install and configuring to just clone the drive
for a quick reinstall, if or when it's needed.

> 
> Tuning the system to minimize flash drive writes sounds appealing, but I 
> never had much success at it.  Mounting the root filesystem with 
> 'relatime' or 'noatime' options sounds like a good way to break things, 
> and I'm not going to audit an entire Debian system to figure it out.  I 
> tried running without swap -- that is a good way to crash your systems. 
> I have not tried alternate filesystems, because I want to be able to 
> boot a standard Debian Installer and run the rescue console when needed 
> (thus precluding ZFS, which I really want).  One trick I have not tried 
> is a USB disk on module.  Eventually SSD's became cheap enough that I 
> replaced all of the USB flash drives, so I have not pursued this.

I'll use "relatime" instead of "noatime." "Relatime" is said to
create less problems with software that needs dates/times when files,
etc. were last modified, accessed, etc.

My systems rarely use swap, and when they does it's only a few
kilobytes. My main 1-year old under-the-desk box with 16GB RAM has
yet to use any.

I won't be using ZFS because of its propensity for lots of RAM. The old
box I'm using for this project has only 8GB of DDR2, and I don't plan
to expand that. OpenMediaVault, to its credit, is very lightweight and
RAM efficient. Perfect for the home NAS on an old system.

Thanks for your input.

B

Homebuilt NAS: System Drive Filesystem?

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All:

For my Homebuilt NAS [specs below], I've decided on a very small 32GB
SanDisk flash drive for the system drive to keep the 6 available SATA
II connectors free for storage drives. But I'm concerned about writes
wearing out the flash drive too soon. I don't know if it has wear
leveling built in.  Nothing in the specs about it. So, worse case, I'll
assume it doesn't.

For that reason, I thought EXT4 without journaling would work well.  No
journaling -- issues that causes aside -- would reduce writes a lot.
Then I came across F2FS which I hadn't heard of.  After some reading,
it seems the perfect filesystem for my purposes: It's more "modern" and
faster than EXT4, designed specifically for solid state devices, and
available in the Debian Repo. (I plan to use OpenMediaVault NAS
software which is Debian based.)

Opinions?  Suggestions?  Recommendations?

Thanks


B

THE BOX: ASRock 770DE+ BIOS/MBR Only MB (EFI/GPT Not Supported), AMD
Phenom II X4 CPU at 3.0GHz, 8GB DDR2 RAM (16GB Max), 6 SATA II, 1 IDE
(Master and Slave) -- IDE DVD Writer on Master, 1 Floppy connector, but
no floppy drive, 6 USB 2.0/1.0, 1GB ethernet

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 16:14:46 +0100
Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:40:03PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> >another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?  
> 
> My advice is to keep it boring and mundane, and avoid the temptation
> to try some flashy technology Just Because. (I put ZFS in that category,
> personally; and BTRFS). My NAS runs stock Debian and I've documented it
> here: <https://jmtd.net/hardware/phobos/>

With anything new I attempt, I always KISS.  Why create problems?
Since the box will be mainly storage -- backups, files, etc. -- I'm
just going to stick with the old, tried and true ext4.  For my
purposes, ZFS is not needed even though it has advantages.  I'm
starting with one data drive and adding drives as needed. As I'm
not a hoarder, or music or movie fanatic, don't run my own web site or
email server, it will take a long time to fill that first drive, if
ever. Probably will never use RAID. Don't need the speed of striping. Or
parity. Everything on the box will have a copy somewhere else. And I'll
be the only one accessing it.

Can't think of any other ways to keep it more boring and mudane.

Thanks for your recommendations.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 18:39:49 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

>   I don't think SyncThing is what you want, per your stated requirements. 
>   SyncThing synchronizes data among multiple hosts.  You said you wanted 
> a NAS, which implies a solitary host.

After a little purusing of the docs on SyncThing, I agree.  It's more of
a personal Dropbox for your devices.  Not what I was looking for.
Besides most NAS software have "Dropbox-like" plugins, if such a
feature is needed.

Thanks for your feedback.

B

> On 7/30/2020 4:28 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:40:29 -0700
> > Peter Ehlert  wrote:
> >   
> >> This whole conversation is a bit over my head.
> >> I suggest you look into Syncthing.
> >>
> >> It's not in the Debian repos, but it is open source and it just works.
> >> https://syncthing.net/
> >>
> >> It works for me, 750 GB, 7 machines.  
> > 
> > Thanks. I'll look into it.
> > 
> > B
> >   
> >> On 7/29/20 12:40 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>> Hi! all,
> >>>
> >>> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> >>> letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> >>> built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> >>> and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> >>> specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> >>> (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> >>>
> >>> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> >>> seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> >>> old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> >>> a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> >>> either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> >>> a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> >>> contemporary and still supported.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> >>> another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?
> >>>
> >>> My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
> >>> home media server.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>  
> 

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:27:03 +0200
"Torben Schou Jensen"  wrote:

> Instead of using old hardware, another solution could be to invest in a
> small Raspberry Pi and a USB disk.
> 
> A year back I created such a NAS solution.
> Raspberry Pi3 + 1 TB USB disk
> 
> Raspberry Pi OS is based on Debian.
> 
> Filesharing by NFS.
> 
> I use it as backup media for my servers.
> Very cheap to buy, and it all use very little power.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I might have future use for something like
that, but for now I plan to put to good use parts I have laying around
doing nothing. I'm a "Waste Not, Want Not" type of person.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:41:46 -0500
Leslie Rhorer  wrote:

>   I run a pair of Debian servers.  One is essentially a NAS, and the 
> other is a backup system.  Both have 30TB (soon to be 48TB) arrays.  I 
> am running XFS, rather than ZFS on the RAID arrays.  ZFS is definitely 
> nice, but is not supported directly under Debian.  I don't find the 
> comparative deficencies of XFS vs. ZFS to be an issue.  If these were 
> enterprise systems, I probably would go with ZFS, directly supported or 
> not.  As it is, these systems work just fine for me, and have for well 
> over a decade.  Here is my layout for my main system:
> 
> /dev/md1:
> [BIG snip]

Thanks for the recommendations and set up details.

B

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:40:29 -0700
Peter Ehlert  wrote:

> This whole conversation is a bit over my head.
> I suggest you look into Syncthing.
> 
> It's not in the Debian repos, but it is open source and it just works.
> https://syncthing.net/
> 
> It works for me, 750 GB, 7 machines.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

B

> On 7/29/20 12:40 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Hi! all,
> >
> > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> > letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> > built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> > and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> > specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> > (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> >
> > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> > seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> > old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> > a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> > either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> > a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> > contemporary and still supported.
> >
> > Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> > another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?
> >
> > My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
> > home media server.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > B
> >
> >  
> 

Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:09:51 -0400
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek wrote: 
> > Hi! all,
> > 
> > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> > letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
> > built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> > and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> > specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> > (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
> > 
> > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
> > seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
> > old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> > a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> > either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> > a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
> > contemporary and still supported.
> > 
> > Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> > another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?  
> 
> Debian with ZFS.

I don't think OpenMediaVault (or Debian, for that matter) supports zfs
on the initial install. OMV specifies ext3/ext4/xfs/jfs support "out of
the box." However, I would think I could use zfs (just install it from
Debian repo) for the storage drives after the OS is installed, but I
haven't finished reading the user manual, so I could be wrong.

> Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian.

That Jessie statement was from the FAQs in the user manual.  So, it
could be that it hasn't been updated.  However, it says also you can
upgrade the kernel from backports. Plus, you can install OMV on top of
any Debian install, if needed.  I'll do a trial install of the default
software and see what I get.

> I recommend making sure you have a new power supply and a UPS,
> too. Cyberpower makes decent ones for reasonable prices and nut
> supports them.

A UPS I have. And it's relatively new.  The current power supply is
only a couple years old. Like I said: the box has been upgraded a lot
from its original build. But thanks for the advice.  Hadn't even thought
about those.

> Maxing out the RAM will probably only cost $10 or so, if
> you can find the person in your city who hoards old RAM.

Took a quick look on eBay: I'd need 4 4GB DDR2 DIMMs (have 4
2GB ones installed now). $40 or so average.  But I'll start with the 8
since that's well above OMV's recommended minimum of 1GB.

> nut - UPS management
> samba - if you need to share files with Windows
> netatalk - if you need to share files with Mac OS, or be a TimeMachine
> mythtv or gerbera or kodi - home theater operations
> forked-daapd - music server (has web client, speaks ITunes and
>  MPD and Chromecast)

Thanks for info.  Hadn't gotten that far as to what I would want or
need after the initial setup.  Get it working first, then worry about
the details. ;)

> Having any web server set up to serve a directory tree is
> generally useful.

I'm still not sure exactly what I want out of the box, but you've given
a few things to consider.  Thanks.

B

Homebuilt NAS Advice

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! all,

Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
letting it gather dust in a closet.  And by old, I mean OLD! I
built it 13 years ago.  However, it's been upgraded many times since,
and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
(max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.

The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it.  They all
seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support.  (I said it was
old.)  However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
either MBR or UEFI.  One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
a service on top of any Debian OS.  So, I can use something more
contemporary and still supported.

Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?

My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly
home media server.

Thanks

B

Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
> Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the 
> installation of "recommended" packages.
> 
> Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
> [Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
> 
> I then did
> apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
> 
> On reboot the desktop did not appear.
> 
> What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
> 
> TIA

Did you install the X server and its depends? Did you manually run
startx? I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.

B

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 07:38:00 +0200
Sven Hartge  wrote:

> Rick Thomas  wrote:
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> >> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> 
> >> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB
> >> > is fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be
> >> > just opinions.  
> 
> >> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the
> >> recommendation of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6%
> >> is used.  My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region
> >> of 100MB but it is not dualboot.  Debian uses about 6MB, MS about
> >> 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.  If space is really tight you
> >> might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> 
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being
> > updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one,
> > will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be
> > too stingy!  
> 
> Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
> installed on next reboot.

Aren't such updates stored still in /boot?  Or has that changed with
efi?

B

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:16:33 +0200
Andrea Borgia  wrote:

> Update:older laptop had 100MB, the current one apparently has more than
> 500MB but I am not sure whether that holds the recovery image as well or
> not.
> 
> Anyhow, the caveat for multiple copies is valid for /boot, where kernels
> live. AFAIK, /boot/EFI is fairly constant in space utilization... I have
> only that as a separate partition, though, the rest of /boot lives in the
> main partition.

Thanks for the info.  I don't intend to have a separate /boot
partiion.  Wastes too much space.

B

> 
> Il giorno mer 13 mag 2020 alle ore 02:36 Rick Thomas 
> ha scritto:
> 
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> > > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > > opinions.  
> > > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation
> > > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but
> > > it is not dualboot.
> > > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> >
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated,
> > the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> > for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!
> >
> > Stay well, stay safe!
> > Rick
> >
> >  

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 12 May 2020 17:17:29 -0700
"Rick Thomas"  wrote:

> On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:
> > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > opinions.  
> > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> > it is not dualboot.
> > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated, the
> EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!

Thanks.  I hadn't considered the extra space that might be needed during
update/upgrades, etc.

B

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 00:37:52 +0200
Andrea Borgia  wrote:

> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:
> 
> 
> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > opinions.  
> 
> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.

The 500MB recommendation is to assure FAT32 is used when formatting or
so I've read.

If you have a very large disk, 500MB is insignificant, but if I can use
less like 100MB or 50MB on a basic one OS/one kernel system with only a
32GB eMMC that's a lot space not wasted.

> My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> it is not dualboot.
> 
> Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

Thanks for the recommendation.

B

Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 12:33:32 +
Steve McIntyre  wrote:

> nemomm...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> >fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> >opinions.
> >
> >Anyone know for sure? I hate having to waste hundreds of megs for a
> >partition that only needs to hold a few megs, if that much.
> >
> >This applies to one of those small, $300+/- notebooks (haven't decided
> >which one, yet) that usually use 32 or 64GB eMMCs.  I'm trying to
> >maximize the available free space. Best option seems to be a MBR
> >install, one OS only (Buster, X, window manager only, etc.), / and
> >swap.  But if that's not possible . . . .  Hence, my query.  
> 
> In Debian we've followed recommendations to use 500M as a default
> size. That may often be larger than people need, but it's safe in case
> people are dual-booting and/or doing firmware updates later. It's
> likely to be difficult to resize after the fact.

The reason I've read for the ~500MB size is to assure FAT32 when
formatting the partition as using less can cause problems with Linux
efi installs.

> You can choose a smaller size *at your own risk*, but d-i will
> complain a lot if you try to go very small, below ~32MiB.

Isn't everything one does "at your own risk?" :) Some social fanatics
believe otherwise, but they'd be wrong.

B

Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All,

I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
opinions.

Anyone know for sure? I hate having to waste hundreds of megs for a
partition that only needs to hold a few megs, if that much.

This applies to one of those small, $300+/- notebooks (haven't decided
which one, yet) that usually use 32 or 64GB eMMCs.  I'm trying to
maximize the available free space. Best option seems to be a MBR
install, one OS only (Buster, X, window manager only, etc.), / and
swap.  But if that's not possible . . . .  Hence, my query.

Thanks.

B

Re: Buster without systemd?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 00:04:18 +
Michael Howard  wrote:

> On 23/03/2020 23:20, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 15:15:14 +
> > Michael Howard  wrote:
> >  
> >> On 23/03/2020 14:28, Patrick Bartek wrote:  
> >>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:37:47 -0400
> >>> Jude DaShiell  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster.
> >>>> That system maintained sysv and still has support.  
> >>> ASCII is Stretch without systemd or any of the dependencies.  Devuan
> >>> hasn't release its "Buster" version yet.
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>> 
> >> It can be upgraded to 'beowulf' using apt of course.  
> > I did that some months ago with Ascii running in Virtualbox.  And it did
> > work, but there were enough problems then that it wasn't suitable
> > for general use -- just evaluation. Perhaps there have been
> > improvements since then, but I'll wait for Beowulf to be officially
> > released before checking it out again.  Currently, I'll stick with
> > Stretch running sysvinit until long term support for ceases.
> >
> > B
> >  
> I guess it depends exactly what is installed but I have upgraded
> via this route a number of times.

I wasn't implying that it wouldn't work.  It's just when I did it
(Fall 2019) Beowulf was less mature and had problems.  I wasn't
expecting it to be stable quality.  I just wanted to evaluate it since
I had problems with Buster trying to keep systemd's init from
wiping out sysvinit and reinstalling itself everytime I installed
something.  Infuriating!

FWIW: My Ascii test install in Virtualbox mirrored my Stretch install:
Basic terminal plus system utilities, X, a window manager (Openbox),
single LXPanel, etc.  No bells and whistles or eye candy. KISS. So, its
upgrade to Beowulf resulted in the same.

B

Re: Buster without systemd?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 15:15:14 +
Michael Howard  wrote:

> On 23/03/2020 14:28, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:37:47 -0400
> > Jude DaShiell  wrote:
> >  
> >> There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster.
> >> That system maintained sysv and still has support.  
> > ASCII is Stretch without systemd or any of the dependencies.  Devuan
> > hasn't release its "Buster" version yet.
> >
> > B
> >  
> It can be upgraded to 'beowulf' using apt of course.

I did that some months ago with Ascii running in Virtualbox.  And it did
work, but there were enough problems then that it wasn't suitable
for general use -- just evaluation. Perhaps there have been
improvements since then, but I'll wait for Beowulf to be officially
released before checking it out again.  Currently, I'll stick with
Stretch running sysvinit until long term support for ceases.

B

Re: Buster without systemd?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:37:47 -0400
Jude DaShiell  wrote:

> There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster.
> That system maintained sysv and still has support.

ASCII is Stretch without systemd or any of the dependencies.  Devuan
hasn't release its "Buster" version yet.

B

Re: OT Filing for free vs Free File, was Re: Simple software for a scanner … LIDE 700F)

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:12:59 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 09:02:02AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > One hopes that you've distinguished between 'filing for "free"' and
> > the actual IRS Free File Program.
> > 
> > https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/about-the-free-file-program  
> 
>   Use Free File Software if your income is $69,000 or less and Free File
>   Fillable Forms if your income is greater than $69,000. 
> 
>   [...]
> 
>   File Fillable Forms is a FREE forms-based tool enabling you to select your
>   income tax forms, enter your tax information, print and e-file your federal
>   tax return. If you’re not comfortable completing a paper return by hand,
>   without software to guide you, you should consider another method of filing
>   your tax return.
> 
> This is why we can't have nice things.

For years I used TaxAct (www.taxact.com) software, the free version for
federal taxes.  You could file online, but I never did.  Printed a hard
copy and mailed it in.  Why make it easy for the IRS?

In all the years I used TaxAct, I never had the IRS complain or audit
me.  FWIW, I was self-employed, owned a home, had rental property,
etc.  So, my return was quite involved.

B

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 10:28:59 +0800
kaye n  wrote:

> *So, how long does it take to load the second time?*
> About 4 seconds.
> 
> After doing this:
> 
> 
> *kaye@laptop:~$ sudo suroot@laptop:/home/kaye# sync && echo 3 >
> /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches*
> Yes, it opened slow again.  Slow disk then?  Should I replace it soon?
> 

Slow disk? Probably. I wouldn't put another spinning drive in it though.
Will it take a SATA SSD?  You can buy 128GB to 256GB ones for under $40
new.  Less on sale. Does the notebook even have SATA?

> 
> *Drives? Presumably Patrick's fancy system uses SSD, maybe the OP has real
> hard drives.*
> It's still the original hard drive that came with the laptop.  Bought the
> laptop nine years ago.

Maybe, it's time to consider getting a newer, but not necessarily new
machine. You can only do so much to improve performance of an old
machine.  Even less for a notebook.  And at some point, it's just
no longer cost effective to do so.

B

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 20:02:57 +
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:45:43 -0800
> Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> 
> Hello Patrick,
> 
> >On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 06:45:43 +
> >Brad Rogers  wrote:  
> >> I note that Patrick says his starts in 3 or 4 secs.  I was going to  
> >I use version 6.1.  When I load via the "libreoffice" menu item, I get
> >a window that lists all the libreoffice apps' files.  I started
> >Writer from it.  I also cold rebooted the system and started Writer
> >directly from the menu.  Took about 5 or 6 seconds to load.  
> 
> I've not timed mine, but it takes at least 30 seconds.
> 
> I should, for the sake of full disclosure, say that my machine is almost
> a decade old with only a dual core processor.  That certainly won't
> help, I'm sure.  The disks are spinning, not SSDs.

Well, a slow dual core CPU is certainly a problem with today's
software.  Even my previous 13-year-old box is a quad-core/4-threads,
but started out in 2007 as a single core, then upgraded, first to a
dual-core, then quad.  My current system is a Ryzen
hex-core/12-threads.  Makes a difference.  Very snappy now even with an
5-year-old spinning drive.

 
> >Firstly, I have a very lean system.  No desktop and all the background  
> 
> Running KDE, but not with 'everything' on a desktop machine.  I've tried
> leaner DEs and WMs, but always come back to KDE.

If KDE is what you like, stay with it. Just be prepared for lackluster
performance from 10-year-old hardware which will become even more
lackluster as you upgrade software.  I had gotten to the point where I
could no longer tolerate that. The slight delay before menus appeared.
 Ditto application responses.  Annoyed me no end.  So when I upgraded
the old system OS from Fedore 12 to Wheezy seven or so years ago, I
decided to abandoned the CPU cycle-hungry desktop in favor of a window
manager and panel, and a part-by-part lean install starting with just a
terminal system. Just doing that gave me a noticeable performance boost
without having to spend any money to upgrade hardware.

FWIW, the easiest way these days to improve performance of an old
sluggish system is to install an SSD as the system drive, if your system
is compatible. As SSDs are usually 4 to 6 times faster than a spinning
drive, booting and loading applications will be much faster without
having to do anything else.


> So, we can start to see where some of my problems are, perhaps.  TBH, it
> doesn't really bother me.  Once I start LO it stays open until I shut
> down or reboot.  I suppose I /could/ autostart it, along with several
> other apps I use, but that would make for a much longer starting
> process, as there'd be half a dozen fairly hefty apps all competing;
> Claws Mail, Libre Office, Gramps, Pale Moon, tellico and mikutter are all
> frequently used here.

With only 6 GB of RAM, you might run low running all that.  And that
will defintely affect performance.

B

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 09:09:15 +
Joe  wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 06:45:43 +
> Brad Rogers  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:17:09 +0800
> > kaye n  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello kaye,
> >   
> > >I was just wondering if it takes about 35 seconds for your Debian
> > >system to
> > 
> > At least.  As you say, subsequent starts are much faster.
> > 
> > I note that Patrick says his starts in 3 or 4 secs.  I was going to
> > suggest that he's using the LO quick starter, but that seems to be
> > long gone - the option to use it is not there in 6.4.
> > 
> > No idea why Patrick's getting a much quicker start.
> >   
> 
> Drives? Presumably Patrick's fancy system uses SSD, maybe the OP has
> real hard drives.

Nope. Regular spinning hard drive.  A 4 or 5 year old, 7200 RPM, WD
500GB SATA II (NOT III!), MBR configured from the 13 year old system.
It had replaced as system drive the original 160GB one which after
13 years of spinning, I was getting nervous about failing.

For the curious out there, the reason I'm running that old drive in the
new system is at the time I built the new system, I hadn't decided how
I wanted to configure it as I had no experience and little knowledge of
SSDs, 2.5 inchers or M.2s, SATAs or NVME, their advantages and
disadvantages, etc.  And the new system has lots of drive
configuration options to consider not only for now, but for the future.

B 

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 06:45:43 +
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:17:09 +0800
> kaye n  wrote:
> 
> Hello kaye,
> 
> >I was just wondering if it takes about 35 seconds for your Debian
> >system to  
> 
> At least.  As you say, subsequent starts are much faster.
> 
> I note that Patrick says his starts in 3 or 4 secs.  I was going to
> suggest that he's using the LO quick starter, but that seems to be long
> gone - the option to use it is not there in 6.4.

I use version 6.1.  When I load via the "libreoffice" menu item, I get
a window that lists all the libreoffice apps' files.  I started
Writer from it.  I also cold rebooted the system and started Writer
directly from the menu.  Took about 5 or 6 seconds to load.

> No idea why Patrick's getting a much quicker start.
> 

Firstly, I have a very lean system.  No desktop and all the background
processes they run.  Just a window manager and a single LXPanel with
menus.  No power management as this isn't a notebook running off a
battery.  So, everything runs at full speed. Etc.

B

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 11:27:49 +0800
kaye n  wrote:

> By the way, it only takes 35 seconds on the first execution.  If I close
> libreoffice, and open i again, it's really not so slow.
> Thank you

So, how long does it take to load the second time?

B

> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 10:17 AM kaye n  wrote:
> 
> > Hello Friends!
> >
> > I was just wondering if it takes about 35 seconds for your Debian system
> > to open LibreOffice.  Mine does.  My Debian is:
> >
> > Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64
> > bits: 64
> > Desktop: Xfce 4.12.4
> > Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> >
> > If it matters:
> >
> > Memory: 5.69 GiB
> > used: 2.03 GiB
> >
> > Dual Core: Intel Core i3 M 380
> > type: MT MCP
> > speed: 1213 MHz
> > min/max: 933/2533 MHz
> >
> > Thank you for your time!
> >  

Re: LibreOffice takes about 35 seconds to fully open

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:17:09 +0800
kaye n  wrote:

> Hello Friends!
> 
> I was just wondering if it takes about 35 seconds for your Debian system to
> open LibreOffice.  Mine does.  My Debian is:

No.  Initially, after a reboot, so all RAM was cleared of
buffered apps, the LibreOffice "Start" panel took about 3 or 4 seconds
to load. Quiting it and restarting, it started almost instantly since it
was buffered in RAM now. Opening a file in Writer (not run previously)
from that interface was almost instanteneous ... less than a second.

> Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64

Same

> bits: 64

Same

> Desktop: Xfce 4.12.4

No desktop. Openbox window manager and single LXPanel only.

> Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)

Stretch

> If it matters:
> 
> Memory: 5.69 GiB

16 GB  DDR4 2666

> used: 2.03 GiB

1.2 GB

> Dual Core: Intel Core i3 M 380

Ryzen 5 1600 

> type: MT MCP
> speed: 1213 MHz

3.0 GHz

> min/max: 933/2533 MHz

Think "burst" mode is 3.6 or 3.8 GHZ

> Thank you for your time!

Even on my 13 year old machine (which currently is in parts for
cleaning) -- AMD Phenom IV quad-core 3.0 GHZ with 8 GB DDR2 RAM --
would be faster than what you're getting.  From my recollections, Writer
would start and load a chosen document in few seconds, certainly less
than 5, even with a 70+ page, text-only one

So, something is definitely wrong on your machine. Check "top" in a
terminal to see what's running and if something is hogging the CPU.

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 08:21:44 +0100
 wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 07:00:03PM -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 20:18:01 +
> > Brian  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Tue 28 Jan 2020 at 11:02:12 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > >   
> > > > The biggest security flaw with any OS is the user.
> > > 
> > > By God. I wish I said that!
> > > 
> > > The same is true is true of motor cars, washing machines, microwave
> > > cookers, TV sets, bicycles, the postal system etc, etc. These damned
> > > humans - nothing but trouble.  
> > 
> > Except the smart ones. They read the manual. :)  
> 
> You don't seem to -- otherwise you'd have found how to get Debian to
> check password strength ;-P

I do know how, but it's not really necessary on a single-user system
like this one or the OP's. Just follow a few simple rules which are
usually in the install instructions, and you're reasonably secure. 

If you're referring to the statement I made, which you didn't quote
here, about coming across a couple of distros that did check for
password strength, I was refering to this happening during an initial
install which I had never come across before.  When testing a distro in
a VM, I use very simple passwords for both root and user just for
convenience since the distro will be deleted after testing. So, if the
installer checked, I would have seen this a lot. I haven't.

B   

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:29:06 +1100
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

> On 29/1/20 6:02 am, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >> My point is that sudo is more of a security "hole" since it only
> >> requires a user's password which in my experience are less secure since
> >> most users create short, easy to remember ones.  
> 
> 
> Which is why I suggested you tell sudo to require root password.

How is that any different from just using su -c and not even
implementing sudo at all?

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 20:18:01 +
Brian  wrote:

> On Tue 28 Jan 2020 at 11:02:12 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > The biggest security flaw with any OS is the user.  
> 
> By God. I wish I said that!
> 
> The same is true is true of motor cars, washing machines, microwave
> cookers, TV sets, bicycles, the postal system etc, etc. These damned
> humans - nothing but trouble.

Except the smart ones. They read the manual. :)

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 10:16:18 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Lu, 27 ian 20, 13:01:17, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:21:30 +0200
> > Andrei POPESCU  wrote:  
> > > 
> > > In the typical sudo setup the root account is locked, so both su and 
> > > root logins are disabled.  
> > 
> > My point is that sudo is more of a security "hole" since it only
> > requires a user's password which in my experience are less secure since
> > most users create short, easy to remember ones.  
> 
> That assumes the root password of these users would be significantly 
> more secure.

Right.

Although, I seem to remember a couple of distros would recommend you
create more secure password, if you entered a poor one, but would still
accept the poor one, if you chose to do so. Can't remember which
distro(s) though. 

> Even if it were, once the user account is compromised it would be easy 
> to trick users into providing their root password to a fake 'su'.

The biggest security flaw with any OS is the user.

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 16:22:27 +1100
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

> Good afternoon
> 
> 
> My limited experience with a Win10 where user is NOT admin, is that 
> everything I have tried even portable apps, works - apart from adding 
> software.

Good to know. But I only use Windows when there are no viable
alternative.  And since my Windows needs are minimal, XP running
"air-gapped" in Virtualbox fulfills those needs.

> 
> I have recommended to ant Win10 user who will listen to set up a 
> separate user account. It's not fun though. When I did my VBox version, 
> I ended up with my phone# as my log in.

I'm sure most don't listen.  They say "that's too much trouble" or "why
do it, the old way works just fine."  Of course, then they rant when
their system get infected.

> 
> By the bye, Mac OSx used to do the same. At least Android doesn't; and 
> trying to get Admin is terrifying me.

I remember the "old" Mac OS was that way. Windows And AmigaOS, too. But
I thought when OSX debuted, they required a user account be set up on
the initial boot.  At least, that's what a Windows user who abandoned
Windows in favor of the Mac told me.  I'm not all that familiar with
Macs, although it seems I know more about them than the average Mac
user. :)

B

> 
> Keith Bainbridge
> 
> keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com
> 0447 667 468
> 
> On 28/1/20 8:11 am, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >   And,
> > unfortuantely, many (most?) Windows apps require Admin priviledges to
> > work properly. Or used to. Haven't checked W10, if that's still the
> > case.  Probably is.  
> 

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 20:58:58 +
Joe  wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 11:24:16 -0600
> David Wright  wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > It's always interesting to read opinions of which aspects of Debian
> > are too insecure for people to use.
> >   
> 
> Compared to, say, Windows?
> 
> A few days ago, I installed Windows 10 for the first time. 
> 
> It *still* makes the first user an administrator, and offers no advice
> on the subject.

That's what Window users are used to: Turn the computer ON, start
using it -- no login. It would just confuse them to do otherwise.  And,
unfortuantely, many (most?) Windows apps require Admin priviledges to
work properly. Or used to. Haven't checked W10, if that's still the
case.  Probably is.

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:21:30 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Sb, 25 ian 20, 19:28:39, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:27:21 -0600
> > Paul Johnson  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:40 AM Patrick Bartek  
> > > wrote:  
> > > >
> > > > I never use sudo.  I consider it too much a security risk even on a
> > > > system with only a single user.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I'm curious for more on this perspective.  
> > 
> > Sudo is just another path for the unscrupulous to gain priviledged
> > access. There are so many anyway.  Why add another?  
> 
> In the typical sudo setup the root account is locked, so both su and 
> root logins are disabled.

My point is that sudo is more of a security "hole" since it only
requires a user's password which in my experience are less secure since
most users create short, easy to remember ones.

FWIW, on a single user system like the OP's (and ths one), su is
sufficient. Sudo is redundant.  

> sudo also promotes good practices by using it only when really needed, 
> which is both safer (less mistakes) and more secure (less code running 
> as root).

I'm not advocating running a root/su terminal all the time, but only
when it's required: login, do what needs doing, logout.

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 12:27:21 -0600
Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:40 AM Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:39:28 -0700
> > "Harold Hartley"  wrote:
> >  
> > > I did a net-install and installed with no problems.
> > > The only problem I’m having is when I want to check for updates or  
> > install a file, it tells me that I’m not in the sudoers file.  
> > > I’m not sure what’s going on, but I’m the only one on the system and  
> > should have admin access anyways.  
> > > Hope someone has an answer for this problem.  
> >
> > I never use sudo.  I consider it too much a security risk even on a
> > system with only a single user.
> >  
> 
> I'm curious for more on this perspective.

Sudo is just another path for the unscrupulous to gain priviledged
access. There are so many anyway.  Why add another?

I don't even store personal data on my system like login names
and passwords, forms, charge cards, etc. Enter by hand everytime.  Yes,
an inconvenience, but a more secure system.

Security is not so much one or two big things, but a lot of little
things you do.

B

Re: Sudo

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:39:28 -0700
"Harold Hartley"  wrote:

> I did a net-install and installed with no problems.
> The only problem I’m having is when I want to check for updates or install a 
> file, it tells me that I’m not in the sudoers file.
> I’m not sure what’s going on, but I’m the only one on the system and should 
> have admin access anyways.
> Hope someone has an answer for this problem.

I never use sudo.  I consider it too much a security risk even on a
system with only a single user. Just login as root in your standard user
terminal: su - (don't forget the dash), enter root password, do your
update/upgrade or install an app, the type exit to log out and return
to standard user terminal.

B

Re: Use system drive, in another system

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 22:19:37 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Lu, 20 ian 20, 08:50:07, Esteban L wrote:
> > I have Debian installed on a computer which functions as my server
> > (email, webhost, smb, etc)..
> > 
> > I want to upgrade the hardware, but don't necessary want to setup all
> > the systems again.
> > 
> > I think Docker would be good for this -- will set that up in the future. =) 
> >  
> 
> How should Docker help with this?
> 
> > But, for a quicky solution, I was wonder if I could just drop the hard
> > drive into another case (new board, processor, ram, etc...), and it
> > would still work??  
> 
> One thing that you need to prepare for is the change of network 
> interface name. Regardless of the naming scheme in use it will very 
> likely change.

Didn't in my case.  Ethernet and USB wireless dongle kept the same
names in the new box as the old one. I used original hard drive from
the old box in the new one. Booted right up. Wirelss worked, too. That
surprised me. Didn't have to do anything. I was up and running in 60
seconds!

Didn't test onboard Ethernet though. It's disabled.  As it's impractical
to connect it due to the locations of the box and the router.

B 

Re: Use system drive, in another system

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:50:07 +0100
Esteban L  wrote:

> I have Debian installed on a computer which functions as my server
> (email, webhost, smb, etc)..
> 
> I want to upgrade the hardware, but don't necessary want to setup all
> the systems again.

I did that yesterday with a new build Ryzen 5 1600 system.  Took the MBR
hard drive out of my 13 year old, nonuefi, MBR only system which had
been upgraded numerous times over those years[1], and plugged it into
the new system. Booted right up.  No problems. However, I did check
that new MB was set for no Secureboot, no Fastboot, Legacy mode, which
by default it was. 

> I think Docker would be good for this -- will set that up in the future. =)

My old system was window manager only, Openbox, and a single LX
panel.  No desktop or login manager. Boots to terminal, then login and
startx.

> But, for a quicky solution, I was wonder if I could just drop the hard
> drive into another case (new board, processor, ram, etc...), and it
> would still work??

I've done this numerious times over the past 20 years since I switched
to Linux from the Amiga.  Very rarely was there a problem not even when
one system was Intel-based and the other AMD.

> I have never tried it, that's why I am asking. =)
> 
> I have Debian 9 installed.

Me, too.  Even Windows XP running in Virtualbox worked on the new
system.

> Also, would there be any dangers in trying? 

I doubt it.  I've had failures, but nothing was damaged or corrupted.
System either would not boot or would, but X failed, but terminal
always worked.

B

[1] MSI and ASRock MBs, Athlon64 single and dual core, Phenom
Quad-core CPUs; 3 or 4 graphic cards, 3 DDR2 RAM upgrades from 2 to 8
GB, 2 system hard drives, 3 keyboards and 3 mouses all PS/2, 3 monitors.

Re: First boot issue

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:25:01 -0800
Kord  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I recently installed Debian 10.2 as a dual boot on a second HDD separate
> from windows 10, and when booting from grub, have not been able to get
> pass the “ [ ok ]  gnome display manager”. Is there any fix for this?  
> Thanks

Without more details . . . .  Who can say?  Try turning off Fastboot and
Secureboot to begin with.  Even though Buster has a signed kernel to
work with Secureboot, it's a place to start troubleshooting.

B

Re: Debian Installer Bug -Wifi driver not installed

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 06:16:17 -0800
Peter Ehlert  wrote:

> I have a desktop computer running Debian Buster Mate that I want to move 
> to a different location and use Wifi.
> Using a cheap USB dongle NetworkManager Applet detects the device, lets 
> me select from available networks, accepts password, but will not 
> connect..and after a few moments it closes..
> 
> Thinking the drivers were not installed (user error) I tried a fresh Net 
> install alongside.
>   firmware-10.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> I unplugged the ethernet cable was unplugged, the installer detected the 
> USB device, install worked as expected.
> First boot, again the device is detected with NetworkManager Applet, but 
> same thing... will not connect and after a few moments it closes.
> 
> I also tried Buster Mate Live.
>   debian-live-10.1.0-amd64-mate+nonfree.iso
> D-I installer works but the result is the same as the Net installer. 
> device detected, but will not connect.
> Running a Live session device detected, but will not connect.
> 
> Ubuntu Mate works, Linux Mint Mate works.
> 
> ... I am at a loss of where to begin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Network:
>    Device-1: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network driver: e1000e
>    IF: eno1 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 10:60:4b:73:2b:08
>    Device-2: Ralink RT5370 Wireless Adapter type: USB driver: rt2800usb
>    IF: wlx0013efcc2c72 state: down mac: 2e:be:92:09:c9:f5
> 
> 
> System:
>    Host: 6300buster Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64
>    Desktop: MATE 1.20.4 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> Machine:
>    Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Compaq Pro 6300 SFF
> ===
> as a reality check I moved the USB Wifi dongle to another machine one 
> meter away and it has the same problem
> device detected, but will not connect.
> 
> System:
>    Host: z620-9 Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: MATE 1.20.4
>    Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> 

A few months ago I had to do the same thing -- switch from wired to
wireless on this box that only had ever run wired -- but with Stretch.
Since I don't run a desktop environment (window manager only Openbox)
and sysvinit instead of systemd, I did the configuration manually.  I
didn't need a network config tool as I would only be connecting to one
wireless (and only one) access point.

Have you installed wpa supplicant?  And is it configured properly?

Have you installed the firmware for your particular USB dongle? As
you're using a ralink device, it will be named firmware-ralink or
something similar. It's in the non-free repo.

Check /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/NetworkManager/  Is all
configured properly?

Read the man pages for interfaces, wpa_supplicant, etc.  Also Debian
does have wikis on configuring wireless.

B 

Re: New Buster install crashing

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:45:59 + (UTC)
"J.W. Foster"  wrote:

> So this is the issue. This is a newly built system hardware that
> is all cutting edge and I have other Linux OS as well as windows
> installed and all work well. I have had a consistent issue with Buster
> crashing the system. I can only tell that it is losing control of the
> keyboard and mouse which leaves me with a reboot situation with journal
> recovery. It's been years since I encountered an issue like this and I
> have been using Debian since the early floppy drive days. 
> The thing I am seeking is where to look for logs that indicate
> specifically what is occurring. I know this is a vague question, so if
> you need more specific info just let me know.Thanks!John

Cutting-edge hardware can be a problem for Linux.  It takes a few
months for open-source drivers to be written.  You should post your
hardware specs, including the graphics card.  There may be known issues.

Did you install the firmware appropriate to your motherboard (Intel or
AMD)? I had to do this to get Buster to work 100% correctly even though
it was on Virtualbox on this very old (almost 13 years, but numerous
upgrades) box of mine. You may have to enable the non-free repos to get
the appropriate firmware. Or reinstall using the "Non-free" install
disk.

Graphic cards can be a problem, particularly if they are the
super-duper, cutting-edge (there's that word, again) gamer kind.  The
driver the Buster installer picked may not be suitable.

You could have a corrupted drive or a bad controller chip on the MB.  I
experienced the latter on a brand new board.  POST would hang at the
keyboard with a "bad keyboard" error reported with the appropriate
number of beeps.  All keyboards used were good.  Worked fine on other
systems.  Bad controller chip.

I doubt if you will find a log report of the problem.  Computer boots,
then at sometime freezes or becomes unresponsive, that is, kernel
crashes or gets in an infinite CPU cycle eating loop.  Log probably
doesn't or can't be written.

B

Re: 'apt update' failure, me or repository?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 17:55:55 -0600
Art Sackett  wrote:

> For any who've found this thread by searching for the problem they're
> having, the workaround is to create the file
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99useragent and populate it with:
> 
> Acquire
> {
>   http::User-Agent "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Firefox/60.0";
> };
> 
> This changes apt's HTTP User-Agent string to that of a recent Firefox,
> which magically prevents the mirror servers from dropping apt's
> connections.
> 
> This is Debian bug #942478:
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=942478
> 

FWIW: I never had that problem with my Buster install, but I never
installed any version of Firefox. Used Chromium instead as the initial
browser. And I started with a terminal-only system and built it up from
there with Openbox WM -- no DE. Also, in my apt sources.list, I
designated version as "buster" instead of "stable."

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 13:59:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> B writes:
> > To make things easy, I figured to just uninstall GNOME.  Wouldn't work
> > no matter what method I tried. Uninstall always wanted to remove ALL X
> > based stuff.  Dependency hell. Researched a lot. No solutions found.  
> 
> 
> Install LXDE *first*.  Remove Gnome *second*.  Do it all from a text
> console, of course.

Thought of that, but not enough room for two DEs on the little 4GB SSD.
Install quit saying not enough free space. 

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 21:40:08 +0300
Reco  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 11:21:26AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:44:32 -0500
> > John Hasler  wrote:
> >   
> > > Patrick Bartek writes:  
> > > > They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved,
> > > > more or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has
> > > > discovered and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life
> > > > . . . and software
> > > 
> > > The OP is in a hell of his own making (which is fine with me).  If he
> > > wasn't such a dork he'd let Lxqt pull in Xarchiver, ignore it, and
> > > install his choice of archiver.  
> >   
> ...
> > Unfortunately, it's the way dependencies have been implemented.  
> 
> In this particular case, it's the way a metapackage have been
> implemented.
> Dependencies by themselves are fine, but their usage in this case
> (Depends instead of Recommends) is controversial.
> 
> In another words, do not blame the mechanism, blame the policy.

That was what I was implying.  That's why I used "implemented" instead
of blaming dependencies directly.  And, yes, metapackages can result in
getting more installed than expected.  I try to avoid using them.

> 
> > One should be able to uninstall one thing without it trashing your whole
> > system because of dependencies, Recommends, etc.  
> 
> It's possible already, although it contradicts the purpose of
> metapackages. First, you remove lxqt. Next, you apt-mark to manual all
> its Depends and Recommends. Finally, you remove what you do not want.
>
> And note, I did not imply that it's user-friendly in any way. And I
> won't call it "simple" or "obvious".

To say the least.  And beyond the OP's capabilities.
 
> 
> > There should be a special switch: "uninstall only this, leave
> > everything else, don't automatically install a replacement -- I'll do
> > that." :)  
> 
> There is no need for such switch as it's perfectly doable with stock apt
> & dpkg. But since it falls into "creative Debian breakage" category, I
> won't go into the details here.

I'm familiar with the method and have used it in a limited way,
but it's so easy to break the system without thorough research first.
And, again, beyond the OP's skill set . . . and temperament.

> 
> > > I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> > > Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> > > don't use a DE.  
> > 
> > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
> > it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> 
> My experience tells me otherwise, but I know how to use apt-mark.

The last time I tried unistalling a DE was 8 years ago.  Found no
solution that wouldn't break or wipe out the system.  I don't even think
apt-mark existed then. Decided it was easier to do a clean install with
the DE I wanted.  There wasn't enough room on the little 4GB SSD on an
Asus eeePC 900 to install two.

> 
> > Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
> > unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
> > aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.  
> 
> Some examples would be nice here.

OK.  Install any DE and you'll likely get Firefox-ESR, Libreoffice,
all kinds of multimedia apps and utilities, etc., etc.  Even just
installing the basic DE components instead of using the metapackage
will still get apps that perhaps you don't want like audacious which I
never use, but with almost anything sound related you install you get
it unless you want to use dpkg and resolve the dependencies yourself
which I have done: Used Slackware for years. ;-)  And "marking" certain
items individually not to be installed can be a lot of work, probably
more than it's worth.  I just ignore them.  Plenty of hard drive space
available.

> 
> > That's why I begin all my installs with a terminal-only system and
> > build it up piece by piece judiciously checking what gets installed.
> > The result is a small,  
> 
> uname -m && du -sxh /usr

On this my primary system?  Stretch amd64. /usr 4.0GB.  20GB / (31%
in use of which /usr is a part). /home and swap on separate partitions.
However, I've been using it for almost 2 years and have apps like video
editing software installed I'm testing. So, /usr has more on it than
usual.

I've done installs using the method mentioned above where the whole
system was on a 4.0GB SSD and install only took 1.2GB including
customized LXDE desktop and applications.  No swap.

> 
> > fast, efficient set up with only what I want -- for the most part.  
> 
> And that "part" that mars your perfect installation is?

Little things that I don't use, but apps complain about if they
aren't installed like xarchiver.

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 17:44:55 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

>  Patrick Bartek writes:
> > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes
> > with it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> 
> My desktop machine has a highly-customized FVWM installation but I've
> changed DEs on my laptop without  running into that.

Well, it WAS about 8 years ago and the last time I tried it.  I had
installed Wheezy (32-bit) with GNOME 2 on a friend's eeePC 900.  It
originally had some Linux system on it that mimiced Windows XP, but it
was trashed and didn't work. GNOME proved to be just too heavy for its
4GB SSD, 512MB RAM and 1GHZ Atom CPU. Response was sluggish and it hit
the swap a LOT. Even upgrading to 1GB RAM, the maximum, only helped a
little. I decided to go with a lighter, customized install of LXDE. It
being modular made this simple. And since I didn't use the metapackage,
I didn't get all the crap that gets installed with it. Too make things
easy, I figured to just uninstall GNOME.  Wouldn't work no matter what
method I tried. Uninstall always wanted to remove ALL X based stuff.
Dependency hell. Researched a lot. No solutions found. Finally, gave up
and just reinstalled the OS with LXDE and reconfigured.  System still
in use and works fine.

This was also the same year, I abandoned DEs entirely when I upgraded
from Fedora 12 GNOME 2 to Wheezy LTS Openbox WM and a single LXpanel
with menus.  Now with Stretch. Similar set up.

I understand it is now easier to remove a DE, but haven't tried it.  No
need.  Don't use DEs anymore.  Just eye candy.  Waste of CPU cycles.  

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:44:32 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek writes:
> > They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved,
> > more or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has
> > discovered and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life
> > . . . and software  
> 
> The OP is in a hell of his own making (which is fine with me).  If he
> wasn't such a dork he'd let Lxqt pull in Xarchiver, ignore it, and
> install his choice of archiver.

I understand the OP's frustration. I'm dealing with it myself with
Buster and systemd (but that's another post). It's just that his
way of coping with his frustration is with animosity and rudeness.
Unfortunately, it's the way dependencies have been implemented. One
should be able to uninstall one thing without it trashing your whole
system because of dependencies, Recommends, etc. There should be a
special switch: "uninstall only this, leave everything else, don't
automatically install a replacement -- I'll do that." :)

> I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> don't use a DE.

Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.

Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.  That's why I begin
all my installs with a terminal-only system and build it up piece by
piece judiciously checking what gets installed. The result is a small,
fast, efficient set up with only what I want -- for the most part.  My
solution is not perfect.

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 10:01:31 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek writes:
> > Welcome to the Wonderful Hell of Dependencies.  
> 
> That's not dependency hell.  Dependency hell is what we had before
> package management systems.  I assure you that occasionally permitting
> the installation of a program you don't need is preferable by far.

They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved, more
or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has discovered
and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life . . . and
software. ;-)

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 21:50:54 +0300
"goleo ."  wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> After installing Debian 10 on my laptop (I choose desktop LXQT)
> I noticed that Xarchiver is preinstalled and it was inconvenient
> to me in the past, so I opened Synaptic to remove it. But when
> I click on "xarchiver" and choose "Mark for Removal" or
> "Mark for Complete Removal" it says it'll install Ark,
> KDE 5 Frameworks and GNUSTEP.

Welcone to the Wonderful Hell of Dependencies.

I don't have a desktop environment on my systems at all, just xorg,
Openbox window manager and lxpanel.  xarchiver got installed as a
"Recommends" of the xfe file manager suite along with a lot of other
stuff xfe uses.  Trying to uninstall it once it's installed is an
exercise of futility. Personally, I don't use it.  It just sits on the
system ignored.

> Here is the video proof:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1IoGQP1omE
> 

B

Re: I can't find 1920x1080 from Display Settings

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 18:26:23 +0300
Jari Fredriksson  wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> I'm using Debian Buster in a VirtualBox VM on my server. I use it from 
> Windows using Remote Desktop.
> 
> The desktop size is not automatically my FullHD size so I need to go to 
> Display Settings and there from a dropdown list pick a resolution for 
> display. That works but there is not the most common option 1920x1080 at 
> all! The closest is 1920x1200 which I'm using now. But I just can't 
> maximize any windows without losing the bottom content with this.
> 
> Any ideas?

Have you installed the Guest Additions in Buster?  Also, have you
installed the latest VirtualBox Extensions in the host?

B

Re: Can't install package in an offline desktop with Debian 9 (Stretch)

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:17:18 +0300
dalios  wrote:

> On 9/21/19 11:50 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:50:40 +0300
> > dalios  wrote:
> >   
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I have a desktop with Debian 9.9 (Stretch) installed. I have moved it in
> >> a house were cable connection is not available but wifi is (thanks
> >> neighbors), so I used an older wifi adapter that I have. The adapter is
> >> (according to lsusb) a "ralink technology corp rt2870/rt3070 wireless
> >> adapter".
> >>
> >> I followed the advice from the wiki page [wiki.debian.org/rt2800usb] and
> >> downloaded the "firmware-misc-nonfree" package. I moved it to the
> >> offline PC with a USB flash key and then used the following command to
> >> install the package:
> >>
> >> # dpkg -i /path/to/package/firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb
> >>
> >> However wifi is still not working. I can confirm with aptitude that the
> >> package is installed. And I re-plugged the USB adapter and rebooted the
> >> PC just to be sure.
> >>
> >> Any advice?
> >>
> >>
> >> Dalios
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: I copy here the output of the dpkg -i command in case it is usefull:
> >>
> >> # dpkg -i /path/to/package/firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb
> >> Selecting previously unselected package firmware-misc-nonfree.
> >> (Reading database ... 123562 files and directories currently installed.)
> >> Preparing to unpack .../firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb ...
> >> Unpacking firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-5) ...
> >> Setting up firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-5) ...
> >> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
> >> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.130) ...
> >> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-9-amd64
> >> W: initramfs-tools configuration sets
> >> RESUME=UUID=899bb006-1e73-4c73-905b-bdeedc70863c
> >> W: but no matching swap device is available.
> >> I: The initramfs will attempt to resume from /dev/sda4
> >> I: (UUID=cf902f00-578b-4b33-b529-7aca95aab455)
> >> I: Set the RESUME variable to override this.
> >> #
> >>  
> > 
> > You have to create a configuration file for the wifi dongle to an
> > access pointto bring up connection at boot. This can be done manually
> > with a text editor and root priviledge or with a wifi manager like
> > wicd.  Debian has a wifi wiki that explains it.  Don't have the link
> > handy.
> > 
> > The config file is /etc/network/interfaces something like:
> > 
> > # The loopback network interface
> > 
> > auto lo
> > iface lo inet loopback
> > 
> > # RALink Wifi Dongle
> > 
> > auto [wifi device designation]
> > iface [wifi device designation] inet dhcp
> > wpa-ssid [Wireless Router Name]
> > wpa-psk [Wireless passphrase]
> > 
> > 
> > B
> >   
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I will try this next time I 'l be there. However it seems a little weird
> to me that this would be necessary. I have used this wifi adapter in the
> past (Debian 6, 7 and 8 in an old laptop) and I never had to do anything
> like that. After installing the firmware (using a wired network
> connection) it just worked and I only had to put the wifi password in
> the network manager applet.
> 
> Dalios

Does your network applet handle wifi?  Do you even have a network
applet? Or even a network manager? Is wpa_supplicant installed?  Are the
wifi utilities?  If you've installed with a wired ethernet connection,
perhaps they weren't installed as no wifi hardware was detected.

This was my case as I never intended this box to use wireless, but after
12 years of wired use and numerous distro installs, logistics forced
wireless on me.  However, any type of wireless manager I tried wanted to
reinstall systemd as the init instead of sysvinit which I prefer.  So,
I installed the wifi drivers and utilites, and configured wireless
manually.  FYI: I don't use a desktop, just a window manager and single
panel with menus.

B

Re: Can't install package in an offline desktop with Debian 9 (Stretch)

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:50:40 +0300
dalios  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a desktop with Debian 9.9 (Stretch) installed. I have moved it in
> a house were cable connection is not available but wifi is (thanks
> neighbors), so I used an older wifi adapter that I have. The adapter is
> (according to lsusb) a "ralink technology corp rt2870/rt3070 wireless
> adapter".
> 
> I followed the advice from the wiki page [wiki.debian.org/rt2800usb] and
> downloaded the "firmware-misc-nonfree" package. I moved it to the
> offline PC with a USB flash key and then used the following command to
> install the package:
> 
> # dpkg -i /path/to/package/firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb
> 
> However wifi is still not working. I can confirm with aptitude that the
> package is installed. And I re-plugged the USB adapter and rebooted the
> PC just to be sure.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> 
> Dalios
> 
> 
> PS: I copy here the output of the dpkg -i command in case it is usefull:
> 
> # dpkg -i /path/to/package/firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb
> Selecting previously unselected package firmware-misc-nonfree.
> (Reading database ... 123562 files and directories currently installed.)
> Preparing to unpack .../firmware-misc-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb ...
> Unpacking firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-5) ...
> Setting up firmware-misc-nonfree (20161130-5) ...
> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.130) ...
> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-9-amd64
> W: initramfs-tools configuration sets
> RESUME=UUID=899bb006-1e73-4c73-905b-bdeedc70863c
> W: but no matching swap device is available.
> I: The initramfs will attempt to resume from /dev/sda4
> I: (UUID=cf902f00-578b-4b33-b529-7aca95aab455)
> I: Set the RESUME variable to override this.
> #
> 

You have to create a configuration file for the wifi dongle to an
access pointto bring up connection at boot. This can be done manually
with a text editor and root priviledge or with a wifi manager like
wicd.  Debian has a wifi wiki that explains it.  Don't have the link
handy.

The config file is /etc/network/interfaces something like:

# The loopback network interface

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# RALink Wifi Dongle

auto [wifi device designation]
iface [wifi device designation] inet dhcp
wpa-ssid [Wireless Router Name]
wpa-psk [Wireless passphrase]


B

Re: Autocomplete and shortcuts slow in Terminal

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:15:27 -0500
Anil Felipe Duggirala  wrote:

> hello,
> I have recently fresh installed Buster on my laptop. I am noticing that
> autocomplete (Tab) in my Terminal (Gnome Terminal) is a second slower
> than usual. When I push the Tab key it takes a bit longer than usual,
> usually it is hard to notice any delay between the stroke and the
> autocomplete or response from the Terminal. Can anyone guide me in
> finding out what is causing this?? Is some kind of data not being
> cached correctly?
> thank you,

I'd run Top first to see if there's anything eating CPU cycles.

B

Re: buster to testing

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sat, 07 Sep 2019 17:03:03 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

> excuse my forgetfulness
> have 2 PCs cheerfully running 10.1
> If I want to change one to testing is it *just* a question of changing 
> the sources list ?
>

Not entirely.  That's the second step.  The first, is to read the
instructions.  The one thing to be aware of is you must recompile any
drivers or apps you did under Buster for the new Testing kernel,
particluarly if you are using Virtualbox.  If you've installed dkms in
Buster, it should take care of that on the first boot of Testing.

Then, once all is set sources.list-wise, apt or apt-get update and apt
full-grade or apt-get dist-upgrade.  You should use full-upgrade or
dist-upgrade for as long as Testing is testing to be sure you get
everything upgraded. Once Testing becomes Stable, the use just plain
upgrade.

B

Re: About firmware to install

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 14:07:31 + (UTC)
Simeone Dominique  wrote:

> Dear friends,
> I am new with Debian 10.
> I need to install firmware and brasero.
> I try to do it but the system said or send the document in the wrong place.
> I need some help.
> I wrote wget /usr/local/lib/firmware http:.
> But the system wrote insufficient way
> Someone could indicate me the right way?
> For brasero, I don't know the way to register the software.
> Someone could indicate me the right way to send the software
> wget ...

wget is not the way to install files from the repositories. Use
synaptic or apt or apt-get.  The first is the gui interface, the other
two work only from a terminal. You need to be root to install
regardless of which you use.

Read the documentation and wikis on the Debian web site.  Be
sure /etc/apt/sources.list is properly set up, too, that is, with the
contrib and non-free parts of each repo. Some firmware is located only
there.

B

Re: is it possible run 32-bit app on 64-bit amd system??

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 00:13:33 + (UTC)
Long Wind  wrote:

> i want to run adobe pdf reader on jessie for amd64
> the last adobe reader 4 unix is for 32bit, i'm afraid it can't run on 64bit 
> system

You want to research multiarch -- multiple architectures.  But your CPU
MUST support 32-bit emulation.  AMD does. I used it years ago with
Fedora 12 and it ran both 64-bit and 32-bit apps transparently.

Here's a Debian wiki to get you started:

  https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO

> i've tried free pdf reader, they all look amateur, compared with adobe's 

Take a look at qpdfview.  I used it on both Wheezy and Stretch. It's in
the Debian repos.
 
> btw which option should i add to mplayer command line
> so that it play only audio part (not video part)  of a file?

Can't help.  Don't use mplayer.

B