subject:"Re\: Bookworm\: NetworkManager"




On 10/22/23 18:36, Lee wrote:

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 1:18 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do

echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
/etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone

Because that only affects isc-dhcp-client, and does nothing for other
DHCP clients, such as Network Manager.

I can sort of understand that an all volunteer project is going to
have some rough edges and inconsistencies, but this is a bit much.  My
understanding is that ISC no longer supports their dhcp client
software so the isc-dhcp-client package will go away someday?
correct?  & I suspect whatever works today will break when the new
software comes out, so I'd rather get a head-start on how to work with
the replacement.

How can I find out who is working on what replacement?

Thanks
Lee



https://www.isc.org/kea/


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Lee

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 1:18 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
> > https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
> >
> > echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
> > /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> > chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
>
> Because that only affects isc-dhcp-client, and does nothing for other
> DHCP clients, such as Network Manager.

I can sort of understand that an all volunteer project is going to
have some rough edges and inconsistencies, but this is a bit much.  My
understanding is that ISC no longer supports their dhcp client
software so the isc-dhcp-client package will go away someday?
correct?  & I suspect whatever works today will break when the new
software comes out, so I'd rather get a head-start on how to work with
the replacement.

How can I find out who is working on what replacement?

Thanks
Lee

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Dan Ritter

gene heskett wrote: 
> 
> So please tell me again what NM is supposed to do for /me/?

Nothing, You do not have a good use case for NM.

NM is for laptops that connect to many different networks,
primarily, and secondarily for corporate networks where many
people will need IT handholding.

In my personal opinion, of course.

-dsr-

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 1:35 PM, Andy Smith  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 08:22:24AM -0400, Pocket wrote:
>>> On 10/22/23 04:02, Max Nikulin wrote:
>>> P.S. I do not see any reason to insist on NetworkManager in the case of
>>> a box which role is a DNS server for a local network. ifupdown should be
>>> sufficient. There is no need to detect cable plug/unplug events, to
>>> switch between connection configurations depending on current location
>>> or other circumstances.
>> 
>> I would normally not use NetworkManager on a server system either, but in
>> this case NetworkManager is installed on all the bookworm installation so in
>> this case I choose to work with it instead of removing it.
> 
> That's a reasonable choice but it is a choice you've made.
> NetworkManager isn't any sort of default on Debian; it's a
> dependency pulled in by something in your install script, so it's
> just another choice you've made even if not explicitly.
> 
> There is no compelling reason why you should stick with
> NetworkManager unless you want to or it's a hard dependency of
> something else. If not then it would be fine to remove it and
> achieve the same configuration in a simpler way with ifupdown,
> netplan or systemd-networkd directly. A lot of people would consider
> that a simpler and therefore more desirable setup if NetworkManager
> was not otherwise required.
> 

The reason is that with my default installation I can create a server or 
desktop from the same base.  I have scripts that after a basic install make me 
a new server or desktop.  NetworkManager is installed somehow in that base 
install and then it becomes common so rather than having two different ways of 
bringing up the network I just have one and it just happened to be 
NetworkManager.   I would have  ok if Systemd networking would have been the 
common way as well.  I have used the ifupdown with dhcpcd and Systemd 
networking in the past.  The is my first go with NetworkManger

> I realise that all this has been pointed out already in this thread,
> but again here you've stated that NetworkManager is some sort of
> default for Debian and that the implication as such is that it
> should be worked with rather than removed. One is by no means
> straying from the "main sequence" of Debian by removing
> NetworkManager where no dependency exists.
> 
> I'm glad you have worked with it though, in order to find a solution
> for the problem you were having, and communicated that with us.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
> -- 
> https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
>

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 1:18 PM, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
>> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
>> 
>> echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
>> /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
>> chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> 
> Because that only affects isc-dhcp-client, and does nothing for other
> DHCP clients, such as Network Manager.
> 
I don’t know what pulled it in and I am not really at a point in time to slay 
that beast as I have a dns server to setup as well as an email server, never 
mine the NGINX server that needs to be setup asap

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

Because the script does what the Debian installer does and runs without 
intervention 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 12:41 PM, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> 
> On 22/10/2023 19:22, Pocket wrote:
>> What version of NetworkManager is installed with bullseye?
>> Maybe a newer version is broken?
> 
> I upgraded this VM to bookworm months ago.
> 
> apt policy network-manager
> 
> network-manager:
>  Installed: 1.42.4-1
>  Candidate: 1.42.4-1
>  Version table:
> *** 1.42.4-1 500
>500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages
>100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> 
> My point was that it required some efforts to get an ethernet card be 
> controlled by NetworkManager. Due to deprecation of isc-dhcp-client things 
> may change in bookworm, but I do not see anything suspicious in output of 
> "apt-cache showpkg network-manager".
> 
> I am curious which package pulled network-manager in your case
> 
>   aptitude why network-manager
> 
> or
> 
>   apt list '?narrow(~i, 
> ~DRecommends:~n^network-manager$|~D~n^network-manager$)'
> 
> In my case it is recommended by plasma-desktop.
>

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 12:12 PM, Tixy  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 17:13 -0400, Pocket wrote:
>> I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation
> 
> A day ago when people pointed out that Network Manager only gets
> installed if you select desktop install configuration, you denied that
> was true by saying "Well the default install for bookworm does install
> it and use it."
> 
> Now you admit you're using some kind of script to install Debian, I
> think it's very misleading to call that 'a default install'. If, you
> have a script you wrote or got from somewhere that installs software
> that you don't want why don't you change the script, or just uninstall
> Network Manager?
> 
> -- 
> tixy

Because I am working with what was installed, and I am using the internal 
network manager dhcp client.  Nothing else needs to be installed or configured.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 11:25 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:24 PM Pocket wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ding ding ding we have a winner
>> 
>> Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
>> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
>> 
>> echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
>> /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
>> chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> 
> Does NetworkManager honour this? Or is that "just" a
> dhclient thing?
> 
Which is exactly what I ended up with.  Which turned out to be a better 
solution

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Andy Smith

Hello,

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 08:22:24AM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> On 10/22/23 04:02, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > P.S. I do not see any reason to insist on NetworkManager in the case of
> > a box which role is a DNS server for a local network. ifupdown should be
> > sufficient. There is no need to detect cable plug/unplug events, to
> > switch between connection configurations depending on current location
> > or other circumstances.
> 
> I would normally not use NetworkManager on a server system either, but in
> this case NetworkManager is installed on all the bookworm installation so in
> this case I choose to work with it instead of removing it.

That's a reasonable choice but it is a choice you've made.
NetworkManager isn't any sort of default on Debian; it's a
dependency pulled in by something in your install script, so it's
just another choice you've made even if not explicitly.

There is no compelling reason why you should stick with
NetworkManager unless you want to or it's a hard dependency of
something else. If not then it would be fine to remove it and
achieve the same configuration in a simpler way with ifupdown,
netplan or systemd-networkd directly. A lot of people would consider
that a simpler and therefore more desirable setup if NetworkManager
was not otherwise required.

I realise that all this has been pointed out already in this thread,
but again here you've stated that NetworkManager is some sort of
default for Debian and that the implication as such is that it
should be worked with rather than removed. One is by no means
straying from the "main sequence" of Debian by removing
NetworkManager where no dependency exists.

I'm glad you have worked with it though, in order to find a solution
for the problem you were having, and communicated that with us.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
> 
> echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
> /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone

Because that only affects isc-dhcp-client, and does nothing for other
DHCP clients, such as Network Manager.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Max Nikulin


On 22/10/2023 19:22, Pocket wrote:

What version of NetworkManager is installed with bullseye?

Maybe a newer version is broken?


I upgraded this VM to bookworm months ago.

apt policy network-manager

network-manager:
  Installed: 1.42.4-1
  Candidate: 1.42.4-1
  Version table:
 *** 1.42.4-1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

My point was that it required some efforts to get an ethernet card be 
controlled by NetworkManager. Due to deprecation of isc-dhcp-client 
things may change in bookworm, but I do not see anything suspicious in 
output of "apt-cache showpkg network-manager".


I am curious which package pulled network-manager in your case

   aptitude why network-manager

or

   apt list '?narrow(~i, 
~DRecommends:~n^network-manager$|~D~n^network-manager$)'


In my case it is recommended by plasma-desktop.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread gene heskett


On 10/22/23 11:02, Henning Follmann wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:24:21PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:08:58PM -0400, Pocket wrote:


On 10/21/23 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf


openresolv or resolvconf is not installed

no dhcp client is running only networkmanager is installed/running



Well, NM is a dhcp client, technically.


making /etc/resolv.conf immutable is not the answer


If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave*
then you might be frustrated.  Most of the people on this mailing list
don't use it.  There are some who actively despise it, and go out of
their way to ensure it's never installed.  (Those people are a small
minority, but they're definitely here.)  So, in all likelihood, nobody
here might know that answer.


Well, that is not true. I think for a desktop NM is the right tool for most
users.
Some of these statements are based of past issues which mostly are
resolved these days.



If you believe NM is not behaving according to its documentation, then
file a bug report.


I did that decades ago, and was ignored. I don't even have the bugzilla 
number cuz of seagates crappy 2T drives failing in a month taking first 
my backups, then then a couple days later the main drive in this 
machine, forcing a bookworm install that took 22 damned installs to get 
rid of orca and brltty cuz the installer found a serial-usb adaptor and 
assumed I was blind. They are used for a lot of ups's and for X10 stuff 
that have nothing to do with hearing loss.


Yes true,

But I would assume that the initial question points to the real problem
here.

I assume you have some special requirments for your DNS resolver and you
just put specific dns resolver in your /etc/resolcv.conf

You all have given me a hard time over this, but I have a nearly 35 year 
history with hosts files which work for such as my home network at an 
address block 192.168.nnn.nnn that is not relayed thru a router.


So that means my whole network is not net accessible without NAT in the 
router which has been running dd-wrt forever. My whole home net has no 
dhcp server, host files do it all.


NM, and avahi, seems to want to assign a default route in the 169 block 
if it cannot find a dns server, but until recently that default route 
has been the biggest PITA ever foisted of on us linux users. You cannot 
get out of your T-shirt pocket for any reason, and getting rid of it 
seems to be a big secret, no one has yet answered. So we put a 
nameserver address pointing to the routers local address in resolv.conf 
and quickly make it immutable before NM has a chance to screw it up. 
Then a suitable entry in /e/n/interfaces usually results in a ping -c1 
yahoo.com that just works.


NM's purpose seems to be is to jump thru dhcp hoops a host file user 
does not need, so I put the router as a default nameserver in 
/etc/resolv.conf and make it immutable, which router I think is running 
dnsmasq, so if the name isn't cached there, dnsmasq forwards the request 
to my isp's server which is supposedly up to date. I can ping any named 
& registered site on this ball of rock and water, usually in less than 
30 milliseconds unless its to Ulan Bator. IF I can prevent NM and avahi 
from assigning a totally bogus 169. route, it just works. Until that 
stops, neither is welcome for the initial install on my premises.


Once I have networking working, then cups might need avahi. but _NOT_ 
before the rest of my network is up and running. And every machine on my 
local net can browse the world with FF.


So please tell me again what NM is supposed to do for /me/?

Thank you.


There might be better ways with NM to manually specify your dns server.


Each network connection stanza can be individually configured based on your
location requirements. I would look into the documentation to solve the
issue the "NM way" and not come up with some hack and then fight the NM.

-H



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Tixy

On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 17:13 -0400, Pocket wrote:
> I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation

A day ago when people pointed out that Network Manager only gets
installed if you select desktop install configuration, you denied that
was true by saying "Well the default install for bookworm does install
it and use it."

Now you admit you're using some kind of script to install Debian, I
think it's very misleading to call that 'a default install'. If, you
have a script you wrote or got from somewhere that installs software
that you don't want why don't you change the script, or just uninstall
Network Manager?

-- 
tixy

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Lee

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:25 AM  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:24 PM Pocket wrote:
> > >
> > > Ding ding ding we have a winner
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
> > https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
> >
> > echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
> > /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> > chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
>
> Does NetworkManager honour this? Or is that "just" a
> dhclient thing?

I don't know.

my /etc/network/interfaces has
iface enp1s0 inet6 dhcp

and my /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Wired\ connection\ 1 has
[ipv6]
addr-gen-mode=eui64
dns-search=
ip6-privacy=0
method=dhcp

but /etc/network/interfaces over-rides /etc/NetworkManager - correct?
So maybe I'm just using dhclient and have no idea if this works for
NetworkManager or not. .

Lee

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread tomas

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:22:06AM -0400, Lee wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:24 PM Pocket wrote:
> >
> > Ding ding ding we have a winner
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do
> 
> echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
> /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
> chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone

Does NetworkManager honour this? Or is that "just" a
dhclient thing?

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Lee

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 4:24 PM Pocket wrote:
>
> Ding ding ding we have a winner

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use the example from
https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf and do

echo 'make_resolv_conf() { :; }' >
/etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone
chmod 755 /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/leave_my_resolv_conf_alone

Are you using NTP?  If yes, how are you keeping dhcp from over-writing
your ntp.conf?
I had to comment out the "ntp_servers_setup" line in
/etc/dhcp/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/ntp to keep dhcp from messing up my
list of ntp servers.

Regards,
Lee


>
> cat /etc/resolv.conf
> # Generated by NetworkManager
> search example.org
> nameserver 127.0.0.1
> nameserver ::1
> options edns0 trust-ad
>
> This make this work
>
> sudo cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
> [main]
> plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
>
> [ifupdown]
> managed=false
>
> [device]
> wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no
>
> [global-dns]
> searches=example.org
> options=edns0 trust-ad
>
> cat /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Wired\ connection\ 1.nmconnection
> [connection]
> id=Wired connection 1
> uuid=fe51b7a9-f0a9-32b9-ba1d-7a4dd08d0718
> type=ethernet
> autoconnect-priority=-999
> interface-name=end0
> timestamp=1697818643
>
> [ethernet]
>
> [ipv4]
> dns=127.0.0.1;
> dns-search=example.org;
> ignore-auto-dns=true
> method=auto
>
> [ipv6]
> addr-gen-mode=default
> dns=::1;
> dns-search=example.org;
> ignore-auto-dns=true
> method=auto
> [proxy]
>
> [.nmmeta]
> nm-generated=true

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Henning Follmann

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:24:21PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:08:58PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> > 
> > On 10/21/23 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> > > > I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf
> > > https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf
> > > 
> > openresolv or resolvconf is not installed
> > 
> > no dhcp client is running only networkmanager is installed/running
> > 

Well, NM is a dhcp client, technically.

> > making /etc/resolv.conf immutable is not the answer
> 
> If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave*
> then you might be frustrated.  Most of the people on this mailing list
> don't use it.  There are some who actively despise it, and go out of
> their way to ensure it's never installed.  (Those people are a small
> minority, but they're definitely here.)  So, in all likelihood, nobody
> here might know that answer.

Well, that is not true. I think for a desktop NM is the right tool for most
users.
Some of these statements are based of past issues which mostly are
resolved these days.

> 
> If you believe NM is not behaving according to its documentation, then
> file a bug report.

Yes true,

But I would assume that the initial question points to the real problem
here.

I assume you have some special requirments for your DNS resolver and you
just put specific dns resolver in your /etc/resolcv.conf

There might be better ways with NM to manually specify your dns server.

Each network connection stanza can be individually configured based on your
location requirements. I would look into the documentation to solve the
issue the "NM way" and not come up with some hack and then fight the NM.

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Dan Ritter

Pocket wrote: 
> 
> On 10/22/23 08:32, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Pocket wrote:
> > > I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation
> > Who provided the script?


You skipped the most important question.

-dsr-

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Michael Kjörling

On 22 Oct 2023 08:22 -0400, from poc...@columbus.rr.com (Pocket):
> What version of NetworkManager is installed with bullseye?

https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/network-manager

https://tracker.debian.org/network-manager

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Dan Ritter

Pocket wrote: 
>The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) also currently has the
>following second level domain names reserved which can be used as
>examples.
> 
> example.com
> example.net
> example.org
> 
> Which I take it that you can use them for any purpose as long as it is not on 
> the internet

No, they are for examples. In documentation. Any system
encountering one of those names in real life can and probably
should assume that it is unconfigured or in a lab where terrible
things could happen without affecting anyone.

> Why would I register a domain name for an internal network?

You shouldn't. home.arpa is already a special-use domain for
that purpose.

If you happen to have a domain name for any other purpose, you
could establish a subdomain for your internal use, just by
configuring it. Or you could use split DNS to show different
views to the inside and outside.

> So I can not use or I am forbidden to use 192.168.1.0/24 network as it is 
> reserved?

On the contrary, it is reserved so that you (and everyone else)
can use it for this particular purpose. But it is also your
responsibility to remember not to let that subnet leak outside
of your internal network, and to accept that other people are
using it in a similar manner.

> I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation

Who provided the script?

> I could have built my own "router" with my own custom scratch built OS as I
> did starting 35 years ago, but why should I if I can get something off the
> shelf?

You can get a computer pre-configured with Windows or Mac OS off
the shelf. Why did you decide to install Linux?

The answers to the two questions are likely similar, if not
identical.

-dsr-

-- 
https://randomstring.org/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference.
there is no justice, there is just us.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/22/23 08:36, mick.crane wrote:

On 2023-10-22 13:22, Pocket wrote:


I would normally not use NetworkManager on a server system either, but
in this case NetworkManager is installed on all the bookworm
installation so in this case I choose to work with it instead of
removing it.


It maybe comes with the desktop thing.
With Bookworm I selected xfce only and network-manager was installed.
Out of interest I put static address in /etc/network/interfaces
and purged network-manager and network-manager-gnome.
and seemed happy.

mick



In my case no desktop is installed on this particular system that I want 
to use as a server.


I have no idea what pulled NetworkManager in and really don't want to 
find out.  All I know is that the script I use to install debian causes 
it to be pulled in, so in this case I chose to use what was installed 
rather than to rip it out and put something else in it's place.


I used the same script for bullseye and it has ifupdown and dhcpcd.  Go 
figure?


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/22/23 08:32, Dan Ritter wrote:

Pocket wrote:

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) also currently has the
following second level domain names reserved which can be used as
examples.

 example.com
 example.net
 example.org

Which I take it that you can use them for any purpose as long as it is not on 
the internet

No, they are for examples. In documentation. Any system
encountering one of those names in real life can and probably
should assume that it is unconfigured or in a lab where terrible
things could happen without affecting anyone.


  


I get that, I have used example.org for more than 20 years and at the 
time I began using it things were different.




Why would I register a domain name for an internal network?

You shouldn't. home.arpa is already a special-use domain for
that purpose.

If you happen to have a domain name for any other purpose, you
could establish a subdomain for your internal use, just by
configuring it. Or you could use split DNS to show different
views to the inside and outside.



Yes, I am researching that, but for now I need to get the bookworm 
installs "stable" in my environment, which btw I am almost there



  

So I can not use or I am forbidden to use 192.168.1.0/24 network as it is 
reserved?

On the contrary, it is reserved so that you (and everyone else)
can use it for this particular purpose. But it is also your
responsibility to remember not to let that subnet leak outside
of your internal network, and to accept that other people are
using it in a similar manner.



I understand that, what I posted was a dig.


  
  

I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation

Who provided the script?



I could have built my own "router" with my own custom scratch built OS as I
did starting 35 years ago, but why should I if I can get something off the
shelf?

You can get a computer pre-configured with Windows or Mac OS off
the shelf. Why did you decide to install Linux?



Because I no longer want to spend the time and resource to roll my own 
and I don't do windows.






The answers to the two questions are likely similar, if not
identical.


-dsr-





--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/22/23 01:24, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 03:29:40PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

On 10/21/23 15:02, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
example.org in the resolv.conf file.

Beware: at this rate, you may end up giving us enough info about what
you're doing for us to actually help you.

I think you're still safe (e.g., you're still keeping us in the dark
about why you run bind on "this machine" yet you also want it to receive
"IPs and DNS info" from some other dhcp server, or otherwise keeping us
confused about which machine is which), but you're playing
a dangerous game.


  Stefan


I need to run a dns server on this network and I want to get the ip and
routing info from a dhcp server.

For this machine I don't need the dns info from the dhcp server.

OK. And the server is sending the DNS info unrequested? Or is your
DHCP client (whoever that is) asking for it?

Furthermore: if your DHCP client is dhclient, there are hooks for
you to configure things in /etc/dhcp/dhclient-{enter,exit}-hooks.d

Cheers


The dhcp client is NetworkManager.

It is request a new lease as it should

Oct 22 03:59:35 gremlin NetworkManager[664]:  [1697961575.2993] 
dhcp4 (end0): state changed new lease, address=192.168.1.3


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread mick.crane


On 2023-10-22 13:22, Pocket wrote:


I would normally not use NetworkManager on a server system either, but
in this case NetworkManager is installed on all the bookworm
installation so in this case I choose to work with it instead of
removing it.


It maybe comes with the desktop thing.
With Bookworm I selected xfce only and network-manager was installed.
Out of interest I put static address in /etc/network/interfaces
and purged network-manager and network-manager-gnome.
and seemed happy.

mick

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/22/23 04:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 22/10/2023 00:24, Greg Wooledge wrote:
If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave* 
then you might be frustrated. Most of the people on this mailing list 
don't use it. There are some who actively despise it, and go out of 
their way to ensure it's never installed.


I just have tried with

/etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/90-disable-resovl.conf

[main]
dns=none

in a VM and it just works. I edited /etc/resolv.conf and 
NetworkManager does not override it. I have no idea what is wrong in 
Pocket's case, perhaps a typo or another config file with higher 
priority. I would check


What version of NetworkManager is installed with bullseye?

Maybe a newer version is broken?




    NetworkManager --print-config



Didn't show me anything unexpected.



This particular instance was installed as bullseye in minimal 
configuration. NetworkManager was added later and enp0s2 originally 
was managed by ifupdown. I edited /etc/network/interfaces to allow 
NetworkManager to take control of it. Later it was upgraded to bookworm.


Overriding DNS servers for each connection is another viable approach.

I admit that NetworkManager has issues and limitations, its GUI 
applets have even more bugs and expose quite limited set of 
preferences, but this tool still works in simple cases and convenient 
in the case of laptops.


P.S. I do not see any reason to insist on NetworkManager in the case 
of a box which role is a DNS server for a local network. ifupdown 
should be sufficient. There is no need to detect cable plug/unplug 
events, to switch between connection configurations depending on 
current location or other circumstances.


I would normally not use NetworkManager on a server system either, but 
in this case NetworkManager is installed on all the bookworm 
installation so in this case I choose to work with it instead of 
removing it.




--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-22 Thread Max Nikulin


On 22/10/2023 00:24, Greg Wooledge wrote:
If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave* then 
you might be frustrated. Most of the people on this mailing list don't 
use it. There are some who actively despise it, and go out of their way 
to ensure it's never installed.


I just have tried with

/etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/90-disable-resovl.conf

[main]
dns=none

in a VM and it just works. I edited /etc/resolv.conf and NetworkManager 
does not override it. I have no idea what is wrong in Pocket's case, 
perhaps a typo or another config file with higher priority. I would check


NetworkManager --print-config

This particular instance was installed as bullseye in minimal 
configuration. NetworkManager was added later and enp0s2 originally was 
managed by ifupdown. I edited /etc/network/interfaces to allow 
NetworkManager to take control of it. Later it was upgraded to bookworm.


Overriding DNS servers for each connection is another viable approach.

I admit that NetworkManager has issues and limitations, its GUI applets 
have even more bugs and expose quite limited set of preferences, but 
this tool still works in simple cases and convenient in the case of laptops.


P.S. I do not see any reason to insist on NetworkManager in the case of 
a box which role is a DNS server for a local network. ifupdown should be 
sufficient. There is no need to detect cable plug/unplug events, to 
switch between connection configurations depending on current location 
or other circumstances.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread tomas

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 03:29:40PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> 
> On 10/21/23 15:02, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
> > > running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
> > > example.org in the resolv.conf file.
> > Beware: at this rate, you may end up giving us enough info about what
> > you're doing for us to actually help you.
> > 
> > I think you're still safe (e.g., you're still keeping us in the dark
> > about why you run bind on "this machine" yet you also want it to receive
> > "IPs and DNS info" from some other dhcp server, or otherwise keeping us
> > confused about which machine is which), but you're playing
> > a dangerous game.
> > 
> > 
> >  Stefan
> > 
> I need to run a dns server on this network and I want to get the ip and
> routing info from a dhcp server.
> 
> For this machine I don't need the dns info from the dhcp server.

OK. And the server is sending the DNS info unrequested? Or is your
DHCP client (whoever that is) asking for it?

Furthermore: if your DHCP client is dhclient, there are hooks for
you to configure things in /etc/dhcp/dhclient-{enter,exit}-hooks.d

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 17:26, Michael Biebl wrote:

Is /etc/resolv.conf a real file or a symlink?
If the latter, where does it point to?

Michael



Not a symlink

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Stefan Monnier

> the DHCP server is on a router
> Running DNS service on a machine is done by many

FWIW, I run `dnsmasq` as local DNS server on many of my machines, and
this is already automatically setup to "DTRT" somehow (the DNS
info obtained via DHCP are provided to `dnsmasq` and `/etc/resolv.conf`
only points to 127.0.0.1).

You might want to look at how they do it.


Stefan

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Michael Biebl


Is /etc/resolv.conf a real file or a symlink?
If the latter, where does it point to?

Michael


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 16:52, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:46:25PM -0600, Charles Curley wrote:

Also, you should not be using example.org. That is a reserved domain
name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com

I just assumed this was a lie.  An obfuscation of the actual domain name.



Nope I use it on an internal network and have done so for 40 years.


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On 10/21/23 16:46, Charles Curley wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:40:49 -0400
Pocket wrote:

but the machine in question has
bind running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the
domain to example.org in the resolv.conf file.

This is my problem in a nutshell

Oh, why didn't you say that! Actually, it doesn't have to use the
loopback address; you can use the address of the Ethernet interface.

Also, you should not be using example.org. That is a reserved domain
name.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com

rfc2606.html 3 .
Reserved Example Second Level Domain Names

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) also currently has the
following second level domain names reserved which can be used as
examples.

example.com
example.net
example.org

rfc6761.html
7. DNS Registries/Registrars:

How should DNS Registries/Registrars treat requests to register
this reserved domain name? Should such requests be denied?
Should such requests be allowed, but only to a specially-
designated entity? (For example, the name "www.example.org" is
reserved for documentation examples and is not available for
registration; however, the name is in fact registered; and there
is even a web site at that name, which states circularly that the
name is reserved for use in documentation and cannot be
registered!)

Which I take it that you can use them for any purpose as long as it is not on
the internet.

Why would I register a domain name for an internal network?
Any name will do. You could make the same argument if you just makeup a domain
to use as it could already be registered or someone my register it in the
future.
That is why I picked example.org as It will/can not be used, no collision with
domain names that way.

Somebody is usinghttp://example.org/ on the internet, try it in your browser
and it ishttps://www.iana.org/help/example-domains

IANA-managed Reserved Domains

Certain domains are set aside, and nominally registered to “IANA”, for
specific policy or technical purposes.

Example domains

As described in RFC 2606 and RFC 6761
, a number of domains such as
example.com and example.org are maintained for documentation purposes.
These domains may be used as illustrative examples in documents without
prior coordination with us. They are not available for registration or
transfer.

So I can not use or I am forbidden to use 192.168.1.0/24 network as it is
reserved?

I am going to guess (since you haven't
said so) that this is also not a laptop, and therefor it has a permanent
IP address.

This is for a name server

If you insist on retaining NetworkManager, this page might be useful.
https://serverfault.com/questions/810636/how-to-manage-dns-in-networkmanager-via-console-nmcli
You can also add DNS servers in the GTK version of the NM GUI. I don't
know about the KDE version.

I am just using what was installed by my scripted debian installation

You can use isc-dhcp to tell the whole network where its DNS server is.
You can also make over-rides for individual hosts. In dhcpd.conf:

Yes but if the currently installed and enabled NetwokManager will work
then there is little need to change it. why change it?

You said in another email that you are using a dhcp server on a
"router". That doesn't tell me much. A router is simply a computer that
sits between two networks, and routes packets between them. My router
is a 16 year old computer designed for embedded applications that runs
Debian. I run ISC DHCPD on that an another machine with fail-over
between them.

It is a "home office router" by linksys

I could have built my own "router" with my own custom scratch built OS
as I did starting 35 years ago, but why should I if I can get something
off the shelf?

From what I have seen most "routers" these days are cheap boxes
provided by ISPs that have buggy, insecure, and limited software which
may not be able to do this.

You can also set the ISC dhcp client to add name servers.

prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;

Then all clients get the localhost address for DNS resolution, which
will not come close to working.

Anyway I have solved this issue by modifying the keyfile for device end0

see my previous post

I will find a way

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:46:25PM -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
> Also, you should not be using example.org. That is a reserved domain
> name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com

I just assumed this was a lie.  An obfuscation of the actual domain name.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Charles Curley

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:40:49 -0400
Pocket  wrote:

> but the machine in question has 
> bind running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the
> domain to example.org in the resolv.conf file.
> 
> This is my problem in a nutshell

Oh, why didn't you say that! Actually, it doesn't have to use the
loopback address; you can use the address of the Ethernet interface.

Also, you should not be using example.org. That is a reserved domain
name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com

I am going to guess (since you haven't
said so) that this is also not a laptop, and therefor it has a permanent
IP address.

If you insist on retaining NetworkManager, this page might be useful.
https://serverfault.com/questions/810636/how-to-manage-dns-in-networkmanager-via-console-nmcli
You can also add DNS servers in the GTK version of the NM GUI. I don't
know about the KDE version.

You can use isc-dhcp to tell the whole network where its DNS server is.
You can also make over-rides for individual hosts. In dhcpd.conf:

subnet blah {

option domain-name-servers blah, blah;
option domain-search etc.;

host dns-server
{

option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1;

}
}

You said in another email that you are using a dhcp server on a
"router". That doesn't tell me much. A router is simply a computer that
sits between two networks, and routes packets between them. My router
is a 16 year old computer designed for embedded applications that runs
Debian. I run ISC DHCPD on that an another machine with fail-over
between them.

From what I have seen most "routers" these days are cheap boxes
provided by ISPs that have buggy, insecure, and limited software which
may not be able to do this.

You can also set the ISC dhcp client to add name servers.

prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 04:23:26PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> Ding ding ding we have a winner
> 

Hi Pocket

Glad you have a winner :)

For anyone else following along: a datum point.

I've just done a minimal text installation of Debian in a virtual machine.
No desktop environment installed: all options deselected apart from
Standard install.

At no point was Network Manager / nmcli / nmtui installed.

isc-dhcp-client is installed as is bind9 client

I'm guessing it is entirely possible that Network Manager was previously
installed by something else or a previous configuration for Pocket.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

Andy Cater

> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager


Ding ding ding we have a winner

cat /etc/resolv.conf
# Generated by NetworkManager
search example.org
nameserver 127.0.0.1
nameserver ::1
options edns0 trust-ad

This make this work

sudo cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=false

[device]
wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no

[global-dns]
searches=example.org
options=edns0 trust-ad

cat /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Wired\ connection\ 
1.nmconnection

[connection]
id=Wired connection 1
uuid=fe51b7a9-f0a9-32b9-ba1d-7a4dd08d0718
type=ethernet
autoconnect-priority=-999
interface-name=end0
timestamp=1697818643

[ethernet]

[ipv4]
dns=127.0.0.1;
dns-search=example.org;
ignore-auto-dns=true
method=auto

[ipv6]
addr-gen-mode=default
dns=::1;
dns-search=example.org;
ignore-auto-dns=true
method=auto
[proxy]

[.nmmeta]
nm-generated=true



--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 15:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 03:29:40PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

I don't get you context here as the problem is simply trying to get
networkmanager to quit writing /etc/resolv.conf.

The context -- what has certain people confused -- is that most people who
do what you're doing run the DNS and DHCP servers on the *same machine*.

They're wondering why you are running those on *different* machines.

Now, personally I don't care.  I'm just watching the drama play out.


the DHCP server is on a router

Running DNS service on a machine is done by many





If I can do this then my issue is solved.

Except you've also got some self-imposed restrictions:

1) You're using a non-vanilla Debian installation method that installs
Network Manager despite not choosing a desktop environment.

2) You refuse to remove Network Manager despite it being the apparent
source of your problems.


I would like to get this working as is



3) You refuse to install any package that you don't already have.

Points 1, 2 and 3 taken together seem to point toward some sort of
virtualization story ("I need to be able to replicate this setup
later") that's also being hidden from us, but who knows.


I would like not to install or remove any packages



4) You refuse the chattr +i solution which would solve the problem in
one simple step.  (This one doesn't surprise me.  A lot of people
object to it on some sort of religious ground.  I don't understand
the objection, but it's so common that it's no longer a surprise.)


That is a crutch, ie If you can configure something then use chatter +i

I prefer to do this correctly


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 03:29:40PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> I don't get you context here as the problem is simply trying to get
> networkmanager to quit writing /etc/resolv.conf.

The context -- what has certain people confused -- is that most people who
do what you're doing run the DNS and DHCP servers on the *same machine*.

They're wondering why you are running those on *different* machines.

Now, personally I don't care.  I'm just watching the drama play out.

> If I can do this then my issue is solved.

Except you've also got some self-imposed restrictions:

1) You're using a non-vanilla Debian installation method that installs
   Network Manager despite not choosing a desktop environment.

2) You refuse to remove Network Manager despite it being the apparent
   source of your problems.

3) You refuse to install any package that you don't already have.

   Points 1, 2 and 3 taken together seem to point toward some sort of
   virtualization story ("I need to be able to replicate this setup
   later") that's also being hidden from us, but who knows.

4) You refuse the chattr +i solution which would solve the problem in
   one simple step.  (This one doesn't surprise me.  A lot of people
   object to it on some sort of religious ground.  I don't understand
   the objection, but it's so common that it's no longer a surprise.)

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 15:02, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
example.org in the resolv.conf file.

Beware: at this rate, you may end up giving us enough info about what
you're doing for us to actually help you.

I think you're still safe (e.g., you're still keeping us in the dark
about why you run bind on "this machine" yet you also want it to receive
"IPs and DNS info" from some other dhcp server, or otherwise keeping us
confused about which machine is which), but you're playing
a dangerous game.


 Stefan

I need to run a dns server on this network and I want to get the ip and 
routing info from a dhcp server.


For this machine I don't need the dns info from the dhcp server.

Doing this lets me control the IP addresses on the entire network and I 
can replace one server with another by simply changing the IP address 
handed out by the dhcp server.  The dhcp server hands out the lease IP 
by MAC address for some (server,  printers, "security machines/devices" 
etc) machines that need a "static" IP address and dynamic for all the 
others like tablets notebooks etc.


This has worked for more that 35 years for me.

On all other client machines I use all the dhcp information, just not 
for this machine as it is an


email server, dns and web server.

I use to build my own custom "distro" (rpm package with all packages 
built from scratch) for servers but I am getting too old to do that so I 
am trying to use debian to replace that.



I don't get you context here as the problem is simply trying to get 
networkmanager to quit writing /etc/resolv.conf.


Being that debian has config files in many places I could have missed that.

If I can do this then my issue is solved.

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 14:53, Christoph Brinkhaus wrote:

Am Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:40:49PM -0400 schrieb Pocket:

On 10/21/23 14:32, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

[...]

My setup is that I was a dhcp server to give out IPs and DNS info.
That way I can control those things without having to do so on every system.

Populating `/etc/resolv.conf` from the DHCP-provided info is a useful
part of "control those things without having to do so on every system",
so I don't see why you "want NetworkManager to not over write
/etc/resolv.conf".


  Stefan


I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
example.org in the resolv.conf file.

This is my problem in a nutshell

I am not 100% sure if I fully understood your setup. My system gets its
network settings via DHCP. I also run a nameserver on 127.0.0.1. My
external interface is bond0. I have the following configuration:

#v+
ris@lenovo ~> cat /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf|grep -v "^#"

option rfc3442-classless-static-routes code 121 = array of unsigned
integer 8;

send host-name = gethostname();
request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers,
domain-name, domain-name-servers, domain-search, host-name,
dhcp6.name-servers, dhcp6.domain-search, dhcp6.fqdn,
dhcp6.sntp-servers,
netbios-name-servers, netbios-scope,
interface-mtu,
rfc3442-classless-static-routes,
ntp-servers;

interface "bond0" {
supersede domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
}
#v-

The last block prevents my local resolv.conf to be overwritten.
I am not sure if that measure could help in your setup.

Kind regards,
Christoph


Well the default minimal install that I do (or use, done,did,etc) has

networkmanager, isc-dhcp-client and wpa_supplicant, so that is the 
parameters that I have to work under.  I would like not to change that 
by removing or adding packages if I can.


As I understand this networkmanager has an internal dhcp client.

It can setup all the other parameters.

Which is ok and will for me if I can get it to leave /etc/resolv.conf alone.

This is what I am trying to accomplish.

Barring that I am gonna try to get it to put the following into 
resolv.conf if it just has to write  that file


and call it a day,week or month whatever it takes

domain example.org
nameserver 127.0.0.1
options edns0 trust-ad

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Stefan Monnier

> I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
> running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
> example.org in the resolv.conf file.

Beware: at this rate, you may end up giving us enough info about what
you're doing for us to actually help you.

I think you're still safe (e.g., you're still keeping us in the dark
about why you run bind on "this machine" yet you also want it to receive
"IPs and DNS info" from some other dhcp server, or otherwise keeping us
confused about which machine is which), but you're playing
a dangerous game.


Stefan

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Christoph Brinkhaus

Am Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:40:49PM -0400 schrieb Pocket:
> 
> On 10/21/23 14:32, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > > > I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf
> > [...]
> > > My setup is that I was a dhcp server to give out IPs and DNS info.
> > > That way I can control those things without having to do so on every 
> > > system.
> > Populating `/etc/resolv.conf` from the DHCP-provided info is a useful
> > part of "control those things without having to do so on every system",
> > so I don't see why you "want NetworkManager to not over write
> > /etc/resolv.conf".
> > 
> > 
> >  Stefan
> > 
> I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has bind
> running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain to
> example.org in the resolv.conf file.
> 
> This is my problem in a nutshell

I am not 100% sure if I fully understood your setup. My system gets its
network settings via DHCP. I also run a nameserver on 127.0.0.1. My
external interface is bond0. I have the following configuration:

#v+
ris@lenovo ~> cat /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf|grep -v "^#"

option rfc3442-classless-static-routes code 121 = array of unsigned
integer 8;

send host-name = gethostname();
request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers,
domain-name, domain-name-servers, domain-search, host-name,
dhcp6.name-servers, dhcp6.domain-search, dhcp6.fqdn,
dhcp6.sntp-servers,
netbios-name-servers, netbios-scope,
interface-mtu,
rfc3442-classless-static-routes,
ntp-servers;

interface "bond0" {
supersede domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
}
#v-

The last block prevents my local resolv.conf to be overwritten.
I am not sure if that measure could help in your setup.

Kind regards,
Christoph
-- 
Ist die Katze gesund
schmeckt sie dem Hund.


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Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 14:36, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:10:23PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

On 10/21/23 13:58, Felix Miata wrote:

If you're not personally committed to NetworkMangler and only need static
networking, then remove it and ifupdown. Systemd provides simple static IP
network setup:

Or... remove Network Manager, ignore systemd, and just use ifupdown.



That well may be the end solution to this problem




I may well be at that point to use systemd networking.

That would require me to rip out all the no defunct packages which I could
do, but I would rather just get nm working correctly if I can.

ifupdown and dhcpcd has worked for me in bullseye and that may indeed be
where this resolved to.

dhcpcd?  OK, either you're not using Debian, or you're using an unusual
architecture where dhcpcd is used instead of isc-dhcp-client.  Virtually
all of my Debian knowledge is on amd64 and i386.

"Not using Debian" might explain a lot of the issues here.


cat /etc/os-release

PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="12"
VERSION="12 (bookworm)"
VERSION_CODENAME=bookworm
ID=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.debian.org/;
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.debian.org/support;
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.debian.org/;


That makes me believe it is debian 12 bookworm


BTW this install has isc-dhcp-client


--

It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 14:32, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

[...]

My setup is that I was a dhcp server to give out IPs and DNS info.
That way I can control those things without having to do so on every system.

Populating `/etc/resolv.conf` from the DHCP-provided info is a useful
part of "control those things without having to do so on every system",
so I don't see why you "want NetworkManager to not over write
/etc/resolv.conf".


 Stefan

I agree about that on most machines, but the machine in question has 
bind running so nameserver needs to be set to 127.0.0.1 and the domain 
to example.org in the resolv.conf file.


This is my problem in a nutshell


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 02:10:23PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> On 10/21/23 13:58, Felix Miata wrote:
> > If you're not personally committed to NetworkMangler and only need static
> > networking, then remove it and ifupdown. Systemd provides simple static IP
> > network setup:

Or... remove Network Manager, ignore systemd, and just use ifupdown.

> I may well be at that point to use systemd networking.
> 
> That would require me to rip out all the no defunct packages which I could
> do, but I would rather just get nm working correctly if I can.
> 
> ifupdown and dhcpcd has worked for me in bullseye and that may indeed be
> where this resolved to.

dhcpcd?  OK, either you're not using Debian, or you're using an unusual
architecture where dhcpcd is used instead of isc-dhcp-client.  Virtually
all of my Debian knowledge is on amd64 and i386.

"Not using Debian" might explain a lot of the issues here.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Stefan Monnier

>>> I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf
[...]
> My setup is that I was a dhcp server to give out IPs and DNS info.
> That way I can control those things without having to do so on every system.

Populating `/etc/resolv.conf` from the DHCP-provided info is a useful
part of "control those things without having to do so on every system",
so I don't see why you "want NetworkManager to not over write
/etc/resolv.conf".


Stefan

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 13:58, Felix Miata wrote:

Pocket composed on 2023-10-21 12:23 (UTC-0400):


I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

...

Is there something I am over looking?
  
If you're not personally committed to NetworkMangler and only need static

networking, then remove it and ifupdown. Systemd provides simple static IP
network setup:


I may well be at that point to use systemd networking.

That would require me to rip out all the no defunct packages which I 
could do, but I would rather just get nm working correctly if I can.


ifupdown and dhcpcd has worked for me in bullseye and that may indeed be 
where this resolved to.


My setup is that I was a dhcp server to give out IPs and DNS info.

That way I can control those things without having to do so on ever system.

I just make the change on the router and I am done.




# inxi -S
System:
   Host: gx780 Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Console: pty pts/0
 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
# dpkg-query --showformat='${Package}\t${Version}\n' --show | egrep 
'netw|solv|temd|ifupdown'
libpam-systemd  252.12-1~deb12u1
libqt5network5  5.15.8+dfsg-11
libsystemd-shared   252.12-1~deb12u1
libsystemd0 252.12-1~deb12u1
systemd 252.12-1~deb12u1
systemd-sysv252.12-1~deb12u1
# ls -gG /etc/systemd/network
total 1
-rw-r--r-- 1 175 Apr  3  2023 eth0.network
# systemctl list-unit-files | egrep -i 'net|solv|anager'
ntpsec-systemd-netif.path  enabled enabled
display-manager.servicealias   -
ntpsec-systemd-netif.service   static  -
systemd-network-generator.service  disabledenabled
systemd-networkd-wait-online.service   disableddisabled
systemd-networkd-wait-online@.service  disabledenabled
systemd-networkd.service   disabledenabled
systemd-networkd.socketenabled enabled
network-online.target  static  -
network-pre.target static  -
network.target static  -
# ping -c1 www.google.com
PING www.google.com (64.233.177.99) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from yx-in-f99.1e100.net (64.233.177.99): icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=155 ms

--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 154.625/154.625/154.625/0.000 ms
#
Nothing writes to my /etc/resolv.conf except me. :)


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 13:55, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:38:37PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

Well the default install for bookworm does install it and use it.

That is why I am here.

There's no single "default install".  Sure, if you just hit the Enter
key straight through an install you end up with GNOME, and also with NM.
But if you *don't* install GNOME (or any desktop environment) then you
also don't get NM.



I did not install a GUI and I am working on a minimal install and nm was 
installed along with isc-dhcp and wpa_supplicant





NM is not the default in a "Standard" install (Standard being the name
of a specific package set in the tasksel dialog).  Only in desktop
installs.  The regulars on this mailing list skew toward people who do
not use desktop environments.  Therefore, we don't possess a lot of
knowledge about NM.


If you want to *solve your problem* then I've offered you the only
answers I know.

It is my opinion is that information is old and not valid for bookworm

Feel free to correct whatever you believe needs correcting.  That's what
a wiki is, after all.  Do you have a specific example of an incorrect
statement on that page?


Well it doesn't work or of little value if you don't have openresolv or 
resolvconf installed






I am not battling or in conflict with any one.

Then why do you reject *all* the answers?

sudo -s
apt-get install openresolv
echo resolvconf=NO >> /etc/resolvconf.conf
exit


I didn't, I am only trying to work with nm on a non desktop install.


--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

2023-10-21 Thread Felix Miata

Pocket composed on 2023-10-21 12:23 (UTC-0400):

> I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf 
...
> Is there something I am over looking?
 
If you're not personally committed to NetworkMangler and only need static
networking, then remove it and ifupdown. Systemd provides simple static IP
network setup:

# inxi -S
System:
  Host: gx780 Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Console: pty pts/0
Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
# dpkg-query --showformat='${Package}\t${Version}\n' --show | egrep 
'netw|solv|temd|ifupdown'
libpam-systemd  252.12-1~deb12u1
libqt5network5  5.15.8+dfsg-11
libsystemd-shared   252.12-1~deb12u1
libsystemd0 252.12-1~deb12u1
systemd 252.12-1~deb12u1
systemd-sysv252.12-1~deb12u1
# ls -gG /etc/systemd/network
total 1
-rw-r--r-- 1 175 Apr  3  2023 eth0.network
# systemctl list-unit-files | egrep -i 'net|solv|anager'
ntpsec-systemd-netif.path  enabled enabled
display-manager.servicealias   -
ntpsec-systemd-netif.service   static  -
systemd-network-generator.service  disabledenabled
systemd-networkd-wait-online.service   disableddisabled
systemd-networkd-wait-online@.service  disabledenabled
systemd-networkd.service   disabledenabled
systemd-networkd.socketenabled enabled
network-online.target  static  -
network-pre.target static  -
network.target static  -
# ping -c1 www.google.com
PING www.google.com (64.233.177.99) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from yx-in-f99.1e100.net (64.233.177.99): icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=155 ms

--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 154.625/154.625/154.625/0.000 ms
#
Nothing writes to my /etc/resolv.conf except me. :)
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:38:37PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> Well the default install for bookworm does install it and use it.
> 
> That is why I am here.

There's no single "default install".  Sure, if you just hit the Enter
key straight through an install you end up with GNOME, and also with NM.
But if you *don't* install GNOME (or any desktop environment) then you
also don't get NM.

NM is not the default in a "Standard" install (Standard being the name
of a specific package set in the tasksel dialog).  Only in desktop
installs.  The regulars on this mailing list skew toward people who do
not use desktop environments.  Therefore, we don't possess a lot of
knowledge about NM.

> > If you want to *solve your problem* then I've offered you the only
> > answers I know.
> 
> It is my opinion is that information is old and not valid for bookworm

Feel free to correct whatever you believe needs correcting.  That's what
a wiki is, after all.  Do you have a specific example of an incorrect
statement on that page?

> I am not battling or in conflict with any one.

Then why do you reject *all* the answers?

sudo -s
apt-get install openresolv
echo resolvconf=NO >> /etc/resolvconf.conf
exit

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 13:24, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:08:58PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

On 10/21/23 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf


openresolv or resolvconf is not installed

no dhcp client is running only networkmanager is installed/running

making /etc/resolv.conf immutable is not the answer

If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave*
then you might be frustrated.  Most of the people on this mailing list
don't use it.  There are some who actively despise it, and go out of
their way to ensure it's never installed.  (Those people are a small
minority, but they're definitely here.)  So, in all likelihood, nobody
here might know that answer.



Well the default install for bookworm does install it and use it.

That is why I am here.




If you believe NM is not behaving according to its documentation, then
file a bug report.


That may be what I do but I want to be sure that it is the fault of 
networkmanager or there is a better fix before I file a bug report




If you want to *solve your problem* then I've offered you the only
answers I know.


It is my opinion is that information is old and not valid for bookworm



So I guess you get to decide whether you'd prefer to solve your problem,
or battle the injustices of the world as you perceive them.

I am not battling or in conflict with any one.

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 01:08:58PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> 
> On 10/21/23 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Pocket wrote:
> > > I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf
> > https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf
> > 
> openresolv or resolvconf is not installed
> 
> no dhcp client is running only networkmanager is installed/running
> 
> making /etc/resolv.conf immutable is not the answer

If you're asking us to tell you how to *make NetWorkManager behave*
then you might be frustrated.  Most of the people on this mailing list
don't use it.  There are some who actively despise it, and go out of
their way to ensure it's never installed.  (Those people are a small
minority, but they're definitely here.)  So, in all likelihood, nobody
here might know that answer.

If you believe NM is not behaving according to its documentation, then
file a bug report.

If you want to *solve your problem* then I've offered you the only
answers I know.

So I guess you get to decide whether you'd prefer to solve your problem,
or battle the injustices of the world as you perceive them.

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager




On 10/21/23 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Pocket wrote:

I want NetworkManager to not over write /etc/resolv.conf

https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf


openresolv or resolvconf is not installed

no dhcp client is running only networkmanager is installed/running

making /etc/resolv.conf immutable is not the answer

--
It's not easy to be me

Re: Bookworm: NetworkManager