Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Tom and Taran Plenty of food for thought for me, here. Tom, you've completely lost me on bayesian probability and fuzzy logic and truth values - this is way over my head, sorry :) Will pass on to techo-hubby for comment... I like your comments about the need for dialogue and mutal respect in a learning environment, along with some form of control as you suggest - although exactly what what we are needing to control and why still requires further examination. Taran, I've also been thinking about the issue of certification, as I've been reading Bourdieu's Forms of Capital (see a previous posting). According to Bourdieu, educational qualifications constitute cultural capital that is easily transformed into economic capital because of the value placed on them by society (or at least by those in power interested in maintaining it). I was thinking about how we say that education is the way out of poverty and opression...what kind of education are we talking about, though? Notice that we don't say lifelong learning but education. This implies that it's not the learning per se that serves to emancipate but particular types/forms of knowledge and skill that can translate into cultural capital through certification that can in turn be used for economic purposes...I guess I'd better read Friere and find out what he says on the matter. I do agree that the internet - by virtue of its ubiquitous nature - is serving to breach the walls of the ivory tower...but I still worry about where this is leading us. Will all our efforts to bridge the digital divide really serve those it is intended to serve? Thanks for your responses. CATHERINE - Original Message - From: tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hi Taran what educational institutions preK-gray have to offer is certification. Some of the skills to obtain that certification can be provided through the certifying institutions and people choose to acquire both that information/knowledge and the certification as a package. But given the rise of the Internet, the package can/has/is being deconstructed as political, physical and social boundaries are becoming transparent and the walls of the ivory tower have been breached. We know full well that some institutions provide better information (which includes many tangible and intangible assets) and others provide more credible certification. One just weighs the balance like choosing a shirt or where one buys a house or which clubs to join or who is in your social network thoughts? tom tom abeles Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:05:46 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Sorry for the late reply. My ISP lost control of it's bodily functions - and it was about as disgusting as that sounds... Responding inline. Catherine Arden wrote: Hi Tom I agree that the sage on the stage in the brick space structure is an outdated model of education that perhaps has more to do with maintaining power and control than teaching and learningHowever, there are nonetheless real challenges working within our new paradigm. For instance, how do we value knowledge? Value. Knowledge. Loaded words, these. Present administration does more to equate value to costs and potential revenue than anything else, it seems, which seems fair considering that metrics of value are not clear and, perhaps, never will be. Maybe they could be if one were to consider value as a form of potential energy (Physics). Consider that a book could be seen as having a high amount of 'potential energy', and that tapping that energy is really the key. And the same applies to knowledge itself, really... But then, I believe that I am thinking well outside of established boxes... How do we teach 'instrumental' skills such as literacy and numeracy effectively and how do we know they are learned? Well, we never truly know... I favor fuzzy logic (the concept) in this - if something is learned, it is learned to a degree of truth. Fuzzy Logic incorporates truth values to establish how true something is. Unfortunately, bayesian probability is more liked in the United States and other parts of the world due to it's simplicity in being integrated in software - but I really believe that Fuzzy Logic excels in questions like this. It isn't a true/false question - it is a matter of how true we believe something is based on information available. How do we recognise scholarly achievement? I think that the large mass of people on the planet rarely recognize scholarly achievement other than little pieces of paper that are hung on walls - and sometimes to their own detriment (they pose a risk when they fall, and are typically not OSHA compliant
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Taran what educational institutions preK-gray have to offer is certification. Some of the skills to obtain that certification can be provided through the certifying institutions and people choose to acquire both that information/knowledge and the certification as a package. But given the rise of the Internet, the package can/has/is being deconstructed as political, physical and social boundaries are becoming transparent and the walls of the ivory tower have been breached. We know full well that some institutions provide better information (which includes many tangible and intangible assets) and others provide more credible certification. One just weighs the balance like choosing a shirt or where one buys a house or which clubs to join or who is in your social network thoughts? tom tom abeles Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:05:46 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Sorry for the late reply. My ISP lost control of it's bodily functions - and it was about as disgusting as that sounds... Responding inline. Catherine Arden wrote: Hi Tom I agree that the sage on the stage in the brick space structure is an outdated model of education that perhaps has more to do with maintaining power and control than teaching and learningHowever, there are nonetheless real challenges working within our new paradigm. For instance, how do we value knowledge? Value. Knowledge. Loaded words, these. Present administration does more to equate value to costs and potential revenue than anything else, it seems, which seems fair considering that metrics of value are not clear and, perhaps, never will be. Maybe they could be if one were to consider value as a form of potential energy (Physics). Consider that a book could be seen as having a high amount of 'potential energy', and that tapping that energy is really the key. And the same applies to knowledge itself, really... But then, I believe that I am thinking well outside of established boxes... How do we teach 'instrumental' skills such as literacy and numeracy effectively and how do we know they are learned? Well, we never truly know... I favor fuzzy logic (the concept) in this - if something is learned, it is learned to a degree of truth. Fuzzy Logic incorporates truth values to establish how true something is. Unfortunately, bayesian probability is more liked in the United States and other parts of the world due to it's simplicity in being integrated in software - but I really believe that Fuzzy Logic excels in questions like this. It isn't a true/false question - it is a matter of how true we believe something is based on information available. How do we recognise scholarly achievement? I think that the large mass of people on the planet rarely recognize scholarly achievement other than little pieces of paper that are hung on walls - and sometimes to their own detriment (they pose a risk when they fall, and are typically not OSHA compliant). How do we 'transmit' cultural values? And how do we 'receive' cultural values? ;-) Are these questions really still about hegemony and fear of losing control or do we need to have some way of controlling education if we are to further our human development and not find ourselves wallowing in a sea of pseudo? There has to be some control in a learning environment, but control does not have to wear latex and wield a bullwhip. While videos along those lines are inexplicably popular on the internet, I do not believe that there is a need for dominance/submission in education. Frankly, most of the things that I have learned that I am most happy I have learned have not come from a curriculum or a reading list provided by educational professionals - no offense to anyone. I believe in discussion, and discussion requires mutual respect. Where mutual respect lacks, discussion is impossible (which probably explains 93.6% of the Internet. I love making up statistics.). Where does mutual respect come from? Can we teach that? And can we get educational institutions to evaluate discussions, are have they become too much of businesses to use metrics that are less than tangible? I do not know. Some people require structure in their educations, others do not need the structure. Therefore comparing results boils down to comparing people's learning styles against educational institution knowledge transfer methodologies. And since no two humans are alike... -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Satish Jha You described children's experience using Internet. I believe in India such children are usually the haves and the better off. What is/are your experience with regard to rural India where the digital divide is all about? How are they faring in India. What are their challenges. Why ICT fails to reach them? Have any study been made on what is wrong? It would be interesting to hear from someone over there. The next country after China (have got someone to do it here), I would be going would be India to help to close the digital divides among the have nots there. Any idea? Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 5:41 PM Its a very interesting discussion that may find a definitive answer rather elusive.. Going by some more recent experience, at least having forgotten the warts of my own schooling the way they may have seemed then, I am glad to share the experience of my more recent encounters with early schooling, call it primary, secondary etc..or whatever works.. The students who are able to use the net, particularly wikipedia, find that their teachers are living in another era in terms of expression, what they reward and the guidelines they follow.. that creates a conflict between the two worlds children live in and feel helpless at the hands of their teacher who they perceive more as a tormentor.. This is more true of over-achievers than the rest.. but the feeling seems more generalized.. The over-achieving students while doing well still find the method of teaching a huge pain, a burden rather than an aide.. They can learn a lot better with more flexible style, curriculum etc if they need to go for learning learning, even more so in the context of using OLPC, with rather suggestive monitoring rather than imposition and knowledge being thrust upon them.. Technologies have made it possible for students to learn 100% of what they need to rather than depending on a selective knowledge to be certified having graduated.. We do not seem to have begun using them.. On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Catherine Arden [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi Tom -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi All, A major aspect missing in the elearning environment that cannot be simulated is the teacher-learner dynamic. For some subjects especially highly technical ones such as computer programming - this is a real issue - Yuwanuch Gulatee's DIT research is on this topic. What needs to be a major component of this discussion is the recognition that elearning is a completely new paradigm, not the same as face-to-face and not an alternative. When this happens we will be able to move forward and introduce new learning frameworks and structures that cater for students in the different environment. Currently, we are trying to re-invent the old model. This about-face also means new ways of assessing learning, different learning resource formats and delivery modes. It also means some research into Human Computer Interaction, the types of skills required to interrogate learning materials on the screen and an individual's emotional response to learning in what is a very isolating environment - largely unexplored in any great detail. An observation from my own PhD research in this area - students use the cursor as a line of sight guide to read text on screen and everyone is still printing. Are we there yet? No - I don't think so. :) BC Vice President, Advocacy Promotion, IASL: www.iasl-online.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.chs.ecu.edu.au/portals/LIS/index.php Transforming Information and Learning Conference http://conferences.scis.ecu.edu.au/TILC2007/ Barbara Combes, Lecturer School of Computer and Information Science Edith Cowan University, Perth Western Australia Ph: (08) 9370 6072 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatever the cost of our libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant nation. Walter Cronkite This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Catherine Arden Sent: Monday, 6 October 2008 7:07 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hi Tom I agree that the sage on the stage in the brick space structure is an outdated model of education that perhaps has more to do with maintaining power and control than teaching and learningHowever, there are nonetheless real challenges working within our new paradigm. For instance, how do we value knowledge? How do we teach 'instrumental' skills such as literacy and numeracy effectively and how do we know they are learned? How do we recognise scholarly achievement? How do we 'transmit' cultural values? Are these questions really still about hegemony and fear of losing control or do we need to have some way of controlling education if we are to further our human development and not find ourselves wallowing in a sea of pseudo? Catherine Arden - Original Message - From: tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC this conversation in several variances is being considered currently elsewhere on the net, particularly around the issue of virtual worlds Steve's example is right on target. academics hold the center stage because they control the grades/certification which provide for student advancement. That is the one unique product that universities, in click or brick space have to offer. And it is the one reason in the dominant US model that get's student attention for the sage on the stage What business has found out, as have many others, is that social networks (those articles that Steve cites as examples) allow knowledge to be gained in entirely different and collaborative fashion, a fashion that academics might call cheating or disrespectful of the sage. While, Mark is right, that these technologies will find a place in The Academy, they are, almost more importantly, a mirror for the educational system which passively makes the point that Steve so eloquently made. The brick space structure with the sage is a vestigial manifestation of the good old days, going back to pre-print where knowledge was transmitted by those who had the information stored in their heads or had access to the very few collections of knowledge such as the libraries of Alexandria. Even pre-internet, social networking provided ways for gaining critical information. What ICT's show us is that we now have many more and much more to access, perhaps more than a single sage on the stage can offer, except where it has been packaged for delivery in nice 3-credit experiences and vetted by a mid-term and a final
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Its a very interesting discussion that may find a definitive answer rather elusive.. Going by some more recent experience, at least having forgotten the warts of my own schooling the way they may have seemed then, I am glad to share the experience of my more recent encounters with early schooling, call it primary, secondary etc..or whatever works.. The students who are able to use the net, particularly wikipedia, find that their teachers are living in another era in terms of expression, what they reward and the guidelines they follow.. that creates a conflict between the two worlds children live in and feel helpless at the hands of their teacher who they perceive more as a tormentor.. This is more true of over-achievers than the rest.. but the feeling seems more generalized.. The over-achieving students while doing well still find the method of teaching a huge pain, a burden rather than an aide.. They can learn a lot better with more flexible style, curriculum etc if they need to go for learning learning, even more so in the context of using OLPC, with rather suggestive monitoring rather than imposition and knowledge being thrust upon them.. Technologies have made it possible for students to learn 100% of what they need to rather than depending on a selective knowledge to be certified having graduated.. We do not seem to have begun using them.. On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Catherine Arden [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi Tom -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
-Original Message- From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 2:32 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hello steve, I do generaly agree with your views except that I would like to change this little bit.. You said The real choice is between online learning or no learning. It would be more appropriate to rephrase it as The real choice is between online/offline learning throug ICT or no learning. This is because to say online learning is the only choice for ICT in Education is not exactly right. More learning today are learnt through offline than online... in many homes and schools around the world. More people are offline at anyone time than online. Another thing, having a computer or two in a telecenter does not mean only 1 or 2 students may benefit. That is the old model. Today telecenters can make use of 1 or 2 computers to serve entire class of students using projectors etc. So it depends on how you use the computers. Having one computer for each(as originally intended in the OLPC) is good but in more cases than not ...impractical in third world countries (in fact I really doubt any third world country). The real issue of the digital divide as far as schools are concerned today is the inabilities to reach out to the unreached anytime any place and any cost. We can talk until the cows come home about other issues highlighted by many contributors here, without this being solved first, we are like trying to teach the rural folks to run before they able able to walk. Hence to really close the digital divides among nations around the world, look into issue of reach... then we can start talking about pedagogy. Read an article about our initiative here and perhaps most will understand what the world is doing and what she lacks as far as trying to reach the unreached 5 billion. http://www.govtech.com/dc/articles/270167 Meanwhile we should not forget about the environment impact our current schools are contributing to the deteriorating environments filling land fills with millions of tons of paper wastes. This in spite of all the high techs. Read about about a Practical tech not high tech article by a 14 years experieced ICT journalist. www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 3:55 AM Hi Tom, Sorry to be so slow in responding. For some reason I missed this message of yours when it arrived. Perhaps it would be useful to put the matter of moving out of what Bourdieu called the scholastic enclosure into the new spaces of communication technology into an action research mode. For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. One question, then, for research is how to bring computers and students together. Sarah talked about community computers. I've used the term social computers, to contrast with the taken-for-granted rich country assumption of the personal computer. The telecentre is one approach to the social computer, and it has clear limitations. We can put a computer in a school, a church, a kiosk, a cafe and it can serve one, three, five students. Will such an approach do the job? We don't know for sure, but we can try, keep careful records and report results. On the matter of pedagogy: perhaps we need a transitional strategy, rather than insisting that all existing syllabi and curriculum materials and instructional strategies are hopelessly inadequate, an approach guaranteed to frighten or threaten or anger many of the faculty whose support we need. I, for one, would rather make existing instructional strategies made available via ICT than nothing at all. Again, we encourage an action research approach, and we report on how well the traditional pedagogies do when compared to the new ones that seem more authentic and relevant to us. Steve On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:19 AM, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve You are right, there are transitions and there are different models. What might be appropriate today in Ghana might be different, today in the US. The approach of education planners is to want to eventually find the one global model. Yet with technology, as you suggest, there are many models for learning including different approaches from didactic, sage of stage, to a problem-based
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hello Alan, I think we agree. I said: For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. In the US and the other richer nations more than 50 per cent of the college age cohort is in college or has come college education. In Ghana it is 3%. The existing colleges and universities are all at capacity, and beyond, stuffing too many students into too few classrooms and lecture halls and dormitories. For the untaught in West Africa the real choice is between online learning or no learning. I think your paperless homework idea has much to commend it, and I think the idea has implications for college learning as well. And offline learning via ICT is indeed an important direction for improving instruction at all levels. I think it important, though, to insist the needs for higher education in the poorer nations cannot be met by building more traditional campuses. Steve Eskow On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello steve, I do generaly agree with your views except that I would like to change this little bit.. You said The real choice is between online learning or no learning. It would be more appropriate to rephrase it as The real choice is between online/offline learning throug ICT or no learning. This is because to say online learning is the only choice for ICT in Education is not exactly right. More learning today are learnt through offline than online... in many homes and schools around the world. More people are offline at anyone time than online. Another thing, having a computer or two in a telecenter does not mean only 1 or 2 students may benefit. That is the old model. Today telecenters can make use of 1 or 2 computers to serve entire class of students using projectors etc. So it depends on how you use the computers. Having one computer for each(as originally intended in the OLPC) is good but in more cases than not ...impractical in third world countries (in fact I really doubt any third world country). The real issue of the digital divide as far as schools are concerned today is the inabilities to reach out to the unreached anytime any place and any cost. We can talk until the cows come home about other issues highlighted by many contributors here, without this being solved first, we are like trying to teach the rural folks to run before they able able to walk. Hence to really close the digital divides among nations around the world, look into issue of reach... then we can start talking about pedagogy. Read an article about our initiative here and perhaps most will understand what the world is doing and what she lacks as far as trying to reach the unreached 5 billion. http://www.govtech.com/dc/articles/270167 Meanwhile we should not forget about the environment impact our current schools are contributing to the deteriorating environments filling land fills with millions of tons of paper wastes. This in spite of all the high techs. Read about about a Practical tech not high tech article by a 14 years experieced ICT journalist. www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 3:55 AM Hi Tom, Sorry to be so slow in responding. For some reason I missed this message of yours when it arrived. Perhaps it would be useful to put the matter of moving out of what Bourdieu called the scholastic enclosure into the new spaces of communication technology into an action research mode. For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. One question, then, for research is how to bring computers and students together. Sarah talked about community computers. I've used the term social computers, to contrast with the taken-for-granted rich country assumption of the personal computer. The telecentre is one approach to the social computer, and it has clear limitations. We can put a computer in a school, a church, a kiosk, a cafe and it can serve one, three, five students. Will such an approach do the job? We don't know for sure, but we can try, keep careful records and report results. On the matter of pedagogy: perhaps we need a transitional strategy, rather than insisting
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Tom I agree that the sage on the stage in the brick space structure is an outdated model of education that perhaps has more to do with maintaining power and control than teaching and learningHowever, there are nonetheless real challenges working within our new paradigm. For instance, how do we value knowledge? How do we teach 'instrumental' skills such as literacy and numeracy effectively and how do we know they are learned? How do we recognise scholarly achievement? How do we 'transmit' cultural values? Are these questions really still about hegemony and fear of losing control or do we need to have some way of controlling education if we are to further our human development and not find ourselves wallowing in a sea of pseudo? Catherine Arden - Original Message - From: tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC this conversation in several variances is being considered currently elsewhere on the net, particularly around the issue of virtual worlds Steve's example is right on target. academics hold the center stage because they control the grades/certification which provide for student advancement. That is the one unique product that universities, in click or brick space have to offer. And it is the one reason in the dominant US model that get's student attention for the sage on the stage What business has found out, as have many others, is that social networks (those articles that Steve cites as examples) allow knowledge to be gained in entirely different and collaborative fashion, a fashion that academics might call cheating or disrespectful of the sage. While, Mark is right, that these technologies will find a place in The Academy, they are, almost more importantly, a mirror for the educational system which passively makes the point that Steve so eloquently made. The brick space structure with the sage is a vestigial manifestation of the good old days, going back to pre-print where knowledge was transmitted by those who had the information stored in their heads or had access to the very few collections of knowledge such as the libraries of Alexandria. Even pre-internet, social networking provided ways for gaining critical information. What ICT's show us is that we now have many more and much more to access, perhaps more than a single sage on the stage can offer, except where it has been packaged for delivery in nice 3-credit experiences and vetted by a mid-term and a final for adding a certificate leading towards a collection for cashing in for a sheep skin. It is not important that universities adopt the technologies as much as that they realize that, all factors considered, a brick space campus in its current embodiment is probably untenable- note the increasing cost in human lives (adjucnts) and rising tuition. thoughts tom tom abeles Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:29:59 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Mark, Your point out that the computer and the new communication technologies are important to knowledge workers in the new socioeconomy, while the older technologies of radio and television and film were not, and of course you are right. Your conclusion--that this difference will result in the new technologies finding their way into the schools--does not seem to speak to the point of the building-centered -teacher-centered school as itself an organized technology that accommodates some new technologies and pedagogies and resists others. To fashion an outlandish example, consider the assembly line as an organizing technology. If the suggestion is made to add a cell phone or computer to each station because the new knowledge economy us built around cell phones and computers, the counter is that the issue is not the needs of the larger society but the rhythms and routines of the assembly line, and whether cell phones and computers can somehow be adapted to the moving belt. Online universities seem to be doing very well: since there are no brick-and-mortar instructional technologies to contend with the new information technologies that problem is dissolved. Blended or hybrid approaches that combine traditional classroom and lecture hall instruction with online instruction seem to run into the conflict of technologies issue. I have a small collection of experiences with blended learning culled from The Chronicle of Higher Education and elsewhere that illustrate the clash. In one, a professor puts all of his lectures and readings online--and the students stop coming to class, and the professor has to require attendance. In several others, faculty hospitable to the computer ban computers from their classrooms because students are texting
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Thank you, Joel, for pointing out all the taken-for-granteds implicit in the advocacy of OLPC. Sarah The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:57 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hi, Cindy! My post was not intended as a response to your inquiry (to which I extend my apologies), but to segue BACK to the topic (OLPC) by relating it to telecenters. Personally, I am in favor of both developments. BayangPinoy has been working for the implementation of community/telecenters in the Philippines for over 10 years now, and we actually look forward to a $100 PC as something that a community of 100 families can afford 5 units of (as the HW component of the telecenters). FYI, my post was intended to point out that community centers (and telecenters) are focused on COMMUNITY, while OLPCs (P - PERSONAL) and other computer technologies are focused on individuals that can afford at least: a) $100 for a computer, b) $20/month for acceptable broadband, c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), and presumably: c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), e) has the time / motivation / (?luxury) of catching up to all the background knowledge that is a prerequisite of a point-and-click networked system. These items (a-e) are definitely not easy (or even possible) for the majority of the citizens of under-developed countries. Regards, J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hello steve, I do generaly agree with your views except that I would like to change this little bit.. You said The real choice is between online learning or no learning. It would be more appropriate to rephrase it as The real choice is between online/offline learning throug ICT or no learning. This is because to say online learning is the only choice for ICT in Education is not exactly right. More learning today are learnt through offline than online... in many homes and schools around the world. More people are offline at anyone time than online. Another thing, having a computer or two in a telecenter does not mean only 1 or 2 students may benefit. That is the old model. Today telecenters can make use of 1 or 2 computers to serve entire class of students using projectors etc. So it depends on how you use the computers. Having one computer for each(as originally intended in the OLPC) is good but in more cases than not ...impractical in third world countries (in fact I really doubt any third world country). The real issue of the digital divide as far as schools are concerned today is the inabilities to reach out to the unreached anytime any place and any cost. We can talk until the cows come home about other issues highlighted by many contributors here, without this being solved first, we are like trying to teach the rural folks to run before they able able to walk. Hence to really close the digital divides among nations around the world, look into issue of reach... then we can start talking about pedagogy. Read an article about our initiative here and perhaps most will understand what the world is doing and what she lacks as far as trying to reach the unreached 5 billion. http://www.govtech.com/dc/articles/270167 Meanwhile we should not forget about the environment impact our current schools are contributing to the deteriorating environments filling land fills with millions of tons of paper wastes. This in spite of all the high techs. Read about about a Practical tech not high tech article by a 14 years experieced ICT journalist. www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 3:55 AM Hi Tom, Sorry to be so slow in responding. For some reason I missed this message of yours when it arrived. Perhaps it would be useful to put the matter of moving out of what Bourdieu called the scholastic enclosure into the new spaces of communication technology into an action research mode. For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. One question, then, for research is how to bring computers and students together. Sarah talked about community computers. I've used the term social computers, to contrast with the taken-for-granted rich country assumption of the personal computer. The telecentre is one approach to the social computer, and it has clear limitations. We can put a computer in a school, a church, a kiosk, a cafe and it can serve one, three, five students. Will such an approach do the job? We don't know for sure, but we can try, keep careful records and report results. On the matter of pedagogy: perhaps we need a transitional strategy, rather than insisting that all existing syllabi and curriculum materials and instructional strategies are hopelessly inadequate, an approach guaranteed to frighten or threaten or anger many of the faculty whose support we need. I, for one, would rather make existing instructional strategies made available via ICT than nothing at all. Again, we encourage an action research approach, and we report on how well the traditional pedagogies do when compared to the new ones that seem more authentic and relevant to us. Steve On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:19 AM, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve You are right, there are transitions and there are different models. What might be appropriate today in Ghana might be different, today in the US. The approach of education planners is to want to eventually find the one global model. Yet with technology, as you suggest, there are many models for learning including different approaches from didactic, sage of stage, to a problem-based-learning model as examples. The difference, today, seems to me to revolve around the ability of the knowledge to come to those that need it when and where they need it. Information packages nicely and doesn't
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Reinvent the word, not the concept, because the word telecenter does not convey meaning to anyone who doesn't already know what it means. Whereas community computing center does convey meaning even if you never heard the phrase before. IMO a Telecentre is best defined by the societal context in which it exists - Telecentre's in affluent society's tend to the model of an Internet Café - in less affluent places, as centres of civic interest and engagement, a communications centre, somewhere to meet, to train, to plan for business opportunity. A library and perhaps even a medical centre. In the later context computers may be less important than other of the services provided by a Telecentre. Don ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: this conversation in several variances is being considered currently elsewhere on the net, particularly around the issue of virtual worlds Yes, and virtual worlds are a topic which have been severely overlooked in much discussion related to the digital divide - perhaps because infrastructure lags so much that it isn't even seen as an issue. Steve's example is right on target. academics hold the center stage because they control the grades/certification which provide for student advancement. That is the one unique product that universities, in click or brick space have to offer. And it is the one reason in the dominant US model that get's student attention for the sage on the stage Yes, I agree - though I have a clear bias as an autodidact. But even as an autodidact, I admit and perhaps even celebrate the sage - but sometimes the sage is not in the nestled cave of academia but instead is the person next to you, literally or figuratively. And this is where collaboration comes in - the sages are all over. The trouble is finding the good sages - and not everyone can find the good sages since not everyone considers critical thought and challenging of the sages as good practice. Sages, sages, sages. What we're really talking about is osmosis; the moving of knowledge through a permeable membrane. And let's be fair - people, like water, have a tendency to take the shortest route unless there is some culture that enforces the longer route. 'Here there be dragons', that sort of thing. So here's a good question for people in and out of academia: Which membrane is more permeable, the academic institution or the sea of knowledge (with admitted large portions of debris, some toxic)? What business has found out, as have many others, is that social networks (those articles that Steve cites as examples) allow knowledge to be gained in entirely different and collaborative fashion, a fashion that academics might call cheating or disrespectful of the sage. While, Mark is right, that these technologies will find a place in The Academy, they are, almost more importantly, a mirror for the educational system which passively makes the point that Steve so eloquently made. The brick space structure with the sage is a vestigial manifestation of the good old days, going back to pre-print where knowledge was transmitted by those who had the information stored in their heads or had access to the very few collections of knowledge such as the libraries of Alexandria. And those few collections of information were only available to the select few - and those few taught their own perspectives of what they read instead of opening the information to be challenged. It is not important that universities adopt the technologies as much as that they realize that, all factors considered, a brick space campus in its current embodiment is probably untenable- note the increasing cost in human lives (adjucnts) and rising tuition. And not to forget the decreased affordability due to large portions of the population not having as much buying power with recent developments in the global economy. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? This smacks of Metzger's 'Academic Freedom in the Age of the University', written in the early 1970s (1971, I believe). And it makes sense, especially in the modern context. Lehrfreheit and Lernfreheit are important factors often overlooked - and were a fair part of the German University, which the American University was modeled after. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Reinvent the word, not the concept, because the word telecenter does not convey meaning to anyone who doesn't already know what it means. Whereas community computing center does convey meaning even if you never heard the phrase before. In other words, telecenter is already jargon that has meaning only to insiders (which is the definition of jargon). It seems too early in the work of getting computing into African villages to start using jargon that villagers won't understand. Sarah Blackmun, proponent of community computing no matter what it's called The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cindy Lemcke-Hoong Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:26 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Mon, 22/9/08, Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Monday, 22 September, 2008, 5:55 AM On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi, Cindy! My post was not intended as a response to your inquiry (to which I extend my apologies), but to segue BACK to the topic (OLPC) by relating it to telecenters. Personally, I am in favor of both developments. BayangPinoy has been working for the implementation of community/telecenters in the Philippines for over 10 years now, and we actually look forward to a $100 PC as something that a community of 100 families can afford 5 units of (as the HW component of the telecenters). FYI, my post was intended to point out that community centers (and telecenters) are focused on COMMUNITY, while OLPCs (P - PERSONAL) and other computer technologies are focused on individuals that can afford at least: a) $100 for a computer, b) $20/month for acceptable broadband, c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), and presumably: c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), e) has the time / motivation / (?luxury) of catching up to all the background knowledge that is a prerequisite of a point-and-click networked system. These items (a-e) are definitely not easy (or even possible) for the majority of the citizens of under-developed countries. Regards, J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Tom, Sorry to be so slow in responding. For some reason I missed this message of yours when it arrived. Perhaps it would be useful to put the matter of moving out of what Bourdieu called the scholastic enclosure into the new spaces of communication technology into an action research mode. For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. One question, then, for research is how to bring computers and students together. Sarah talked about community computers. I've used the term social computers, to contrast with the taken-for-granted rich country assumption of the personal computer. The telecentre is one approach to the social computer, and it has clear limitations. We can put a computer in a school, a church, a kiosk, a cafe and it can serve one, three, five students. Will such an approach do the job? We don't know for sure, but we can try, keep careful records and report results. On the matter of pedagogy: perhaps we need a transitional strategy, rather than insisting that all existing syllabi and curriculum materials and instructional strategies are hopelessly inadequate, an approach guaranteed to frighten or threaten or anger many of the faculty whose support we need. I, for one, would rather make existing instructional strategies made available via ICT than nothing at all. Again, we encourage an action research approach, and we report on how well the traditional pedagogies do when compared to the new ones that seem more authentic and relevant to us. Steve On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:19 AM, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve You are right, there are transitions and there are different models. What might be appropriate today in Ghana might be different, today in the US. The approach of education planners is to want to eventually find the one global model. Yet with technology, as you suggest, there are many models for learning including different approaches from didactic, sage of stage, to a problem-based-learning model as examples. The difference, today, seems to me to revolve around the ability of the knowledge to come to those that need it when and where they need it. Information packages nicely and doesn't necessarily require paved four lane controlled access roads. It is strange and wonderous to see how knowledge travels in dispersed rural communities where everyone knows everyone's business and problem solving knowledge travels across fields almost by magic. The issue is one of scarcity and control. That we learned, in the west from the Church who had a problem when the Vulgate appeared. Just go to the iTunes store and go to podcasts and search for a subject and see what is available, free. And we are just starting Think about motivated home school students in the US and students eager to learn, around the world but who have to work so the family can eat. How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? tom tom abeles Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:47:55 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC In a message here filled with much good sense Tom Abeles says this: thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about. Winston Churchill said this: We shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. That is: the school building and its classrooms and lecture halls is not merely a container that can house instruction organized around the computer or radio or television as easily as it can accommodate teacher-led instruction: the building--Tom's brick space--shapes what goes on within in it. Anthony Giddens says spatial arrangements are constitutive. The school building, then, is not a neutral container that can house any kind of instruction, but is a decisive and determining factor in the shaping of teaching and learning
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In response to Cindy's inquiry, please refer to a discussion on the topic in 1994 which I find valid still. The links are as follows: 1) My response to an initial request for a definition of Telecenters: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/pipermail/telecentres/2004-October/000238.html 2) Taran's response re Telecenters: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/pipermail/telecentres/2004-October/000244.html Regards, - Joel ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Out of context--what a very useful idea. Solar home lighting, foot-driven water pumps for crop irrigation, bicycles for transport of products to market: all these seem to fit comfortably into the context of village life in Ghana. OLPC, not so much. Here are schoolchildren whose mothers can't afford to buy them the required notebook ($1.00)and uniform ($4.00), so they're not going to school. Those who do go to school don't have any books of their own, and the school doesn't have many either. Often the school does not have electricity, reliably or at all. Almost certainly it doesn't have, and can't afford, connection to the Internet. Trying to envision OLPC in this context is pretty challenging, don't you think? Less difficult is the notion of a community centre that has shared computers as well as other services (health, literacy, job skills, craft workshop, bike conversion and repair, etc.). The problem of context has dogged Western-driven development since t5he 1950s, and brought the demise of many expensive projects. I guess that's why the World Bank finally started hiring anthropologists in the 1980s--to get some folks with the ability to see and understand context. Sarah Blackmun The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:56 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Mon, 22/9/08, Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Monday, 22 September, 2008, 5:55 AM On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Can someone inform me whether this OLPC has been abandoned by MIT or what's the current progress now. Terimakasih dan Salam Sejahtera, -- Md Rusli Haji Ahmad Director Universal Service Provision Div. SKMM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Sent: 22 September 2008 11:56 To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it (Message) are intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential information. You are hereby notified that the taking of any action in reliance upon, or any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, printing or copying of this Message or any part thereof by anyone other than the recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this Message in error, you should delete this Message immediately and advise the sender by return e-mail. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this Message that do not relate to the MCMC shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the MCMC. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Mark writes, The role of ICTs in education is thus much more natural and compelling than that of radio, television, and film. I would suggest that attempts to generalize a ceiling effect for the long-term role of ICTs in schools based on prior educational technology research on the diffusion of radio, television, and film are flawed. Thanks for the interesting insights. Videos, TVs, radios and ICTs are enablers. Their success depends partly on how teachers integrate them skillfully in the teaching and learning process. OLPC needs to be accompanied by OLPT (one laptop per teacher). ICTs or OLPC won't cure inadequate teaching or flawed education system. The one fit all solution is another culprit- those who propose technological solution to enhance education often discount the challenges in and the differences between developing nations.I visited some schools in Africa recently- the list of the challenges is overwhelming - badly wired networks, regular power cuts, lack of skilled technicians, inadequately trained, less paid and motivated teachers... I ask myself what good 1 million OLPTs will do in that setting. Some smart kids will use OLPT, the rest of us will sit and see OLPT come and go. Lishan ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Steve You are right, there are transitions and there are different models. What might be appropriate today in Ghana might be different, today in the US. The approach of education planners is to want to eventually find the one global model. Yet with technology, as you suggest, there are many models for learning including different approaches from didactic, sage of stage, to a problem-based-learning model as examples. The difference, today, seems to me to revolve around the ability of the knowledge to come to those that need it when and where they need it. Information packages nicely and doesn't necessarily require paved four lane controlled access roads. It is strange and wonderous to see how knowledge travels in dispersed rural communities where everyone knows everyone's business and problem solving knowledge travels across fields almost by magic. The issue is one of scarcity and control. That we learned, in the west from the Church who had a problem when the Vulgate appeared. Just go to the iTunes store and go to podcasts and search for a subject and see what is available, free. And we are just starting Think about motivated home school students in the US and students eager to learn, around the world but who have to work so the family can eat. How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? tom tom abeles Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:47:55 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC In a message here filled with much good sense Tom Abeles says this: thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about. Winston Churchill said this: We shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. That is: the school building and its classrooms and lecture halls is not merely a container that can house instruction organized around the computer or radio or television as easily as it can accommodate teacher-led instruction: the building--Tom's brick space--shapes what goes on within in it. Anthony Giddens says spatial arrangements are constitutive. The school building, then, is not a neutral container that can house any kind of instruction, but is a decisive and determining factor in the shaping of teaching and learning. Tom proposes abandoning the present building-centered school. We may need a transitional strategy. One possibility might be a 3-2 system. Children go to the school building three days a week to learn from teachers and each other through conversation, dialog, and the older pedagogies, without technologies, or perhaps with the help of radio and television if the teacher is comfortable with them. The other two days might be spent with computers: at home, if the home has a computer--perhaps using a pen drive, as Paperless suggests--or using a community computer which might be in a telecenter, or a library, or in the school building. The growth of open universities, with all instruction at a distance,suggests that some day Tom's vision of a school without walls may be practical. We might want to go there in stages rather than all at once. Steve Eskow On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:03 AM, tom abeles wrote: We are in a transition period where multiple solutions make sense rather than one size fits all. One of the issue to understand is that cost keeps coming down for digital products. Right now I can have a basic cell phone which will take a micro chip with 4GB. Cells are already available with most of the technology needed to deliver basic internet type services, even to being able to test. The cell is a ubiquitous device even in developing countries. So computers to lap tops to cells is a natural migration both in capabilities, cost and availability both on wireless and wifi delivery. Thin clients such as Sarah suggests, or variance thereof is what happens with google doc's and other server-based software, even in developed countries- safe/secure and not dependent on keeping data stored on portable media except for off-line
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: The problem of context has dogged Western-driven development since the 1950s, and brought the demise of many expensive projects. I guess that's why the World Bank finally started hiring anthropologists in the 1980s--to get some folks with the ability to see and understand context. Indeed. Context is king in just about everything - from interface design to implementing solutions in *any* environment. In the context of the digital divide, understanding the person using the computer is not enough - it never has been. Solutions come from a deep understanding of not only how people do things, but why. The 'how' is simple enough, the 'why' is not. Economics, culture and even personal biases (changeable and unchangeable) are key. As a humorous side note, I must wonder who studies the habits of anthropologists. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
We always think about, or are prod to think and look about, cost in terms of cash. We think in the 'accounting' way with proper columns, debits and credits, balance sheet. What we do not seems to want to know is the cost and benefits of the 'soft kinds' such as f2f social get together, knowledge sharing when people get the chance to see smiles and nodding in others, the old, old matter of getting knowledge out in REAL STORY telling etc. etc. Sometime it almost makes me laugh when I think about how we ooh and aah about the benefits of water-cooler/coffee machine at a office, or how to share knowledge by story telling. I laugh because these WERE the old ways we use to share knowledge that WE destroyed by letting technologies control us. Well, if we find a place such as a local town-hall, a school library and put in a few computers there and let the people share (a tele-center) what in effect is we are keeping the traditional way of life of most small villages ... a market place, a watering-hole, a place to mingle ... water-cooler effects flows naturally, stories would be told, knowledge sharing occurs ... . Imagine we give to each child in the village a OLPC. What DO we give them, how much what we give would benefits them, AND what are we taking away, and what are we destroying? I am not even going to go deep into what other problems are we creating. Perhaps we should stop for another moment to really understand what we are doing to our societies, to reflect what the internet technologies is doing to our own life? So do we really want to promote the same ?? I am not anti-technology, but I am concern many of us allow technologies to control us. We created the digital divide. Like drug addits, we want newer and newer technologies to fix our craves. Most of all, should we push our additions to others (the unfortunate souls, we think!) in the name of closing the digital divide gaps? Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sun, 21/9/08, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, 21 September, 2008, 11:04 PM Hello Alan (Paperless), Well said ...things that we have argued the first round when OLPC first came to the scene. Below I quote what you wrote: Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has overlooked this crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver contents...not the hardware it is the software. apart from software/content, even when there is adequate telco infractures in placed, you still need 'people' to teach, to train, to maintain, to support the whole shebang of e-learning, BUT what is most annoying to me is, we seems to think, 'if we give them all they need, learning would occurred. There are generally a few different groups of learners, in my eyes. There are those that do not need any prompting, pushing and would find their own way to learn anyway, then there are some that for whatever reasons would need lots of prodding, pulling, pushing before learning occurred, and of course there are some that would need helping to get the balls rolling ... Last, we musn't forget. This list is for the lucky people such as you and me that can afford a PC, fast speed online internet, well educated and some even educators that know what learning is all about, and reasonable well to do that do not have to decide where should THAT one dollar should do ... food or phone bill ... so, we are armchair critics. We sit comfortably (that include me), and put in our few cents worth of opinons. Well, if we REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to know what it is like to be disadvantage, perhaps we should ask the disadvantage to tell us what it is like in their world. We musn't forget either to ask, where the money shold come from to buy JUST the PC ALONE? I am not even talking about putting in, and supporting the network. Well, there are only so much money to go around. IF a country has to buy one million PC for 100 a piece (If I remembered correctly, the deal is, a country MUST buy minimum ONE million pieces of PC), what would happen to their budget for other needs? So, perhaps we stop for one moment and WONDER a little bit who is getting rich? So, OLPC for the rich and advanced world such as NY, is VERY different from OLPC for somewhere in India, or an African country. Very different. I am sure there are many success stories, but perhaps we should stop another moment to consider IF do differently such as instead of OLPC why not set up telecenters? What would be the cost different? MOST of all think about the benefits of social networking (not the online kind), the benefits of f2f etc. etc. etc. Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Sun, 21/9/08, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
In a message here filled with much good sense Tom Abeles says this: We need to rethink educational models first and formost rather than thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about. Winston Churchill said this: We shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. That is: the school building and its classrooms and lecture halls is not merely a container that can house instruction organized around the computer or radio or television as easily as it can accommodate teacher-led instruction: the building--Tom's brick space--shapes what goes on within in it. Anthony Giddens says spatial arrangements are constitutive. The school building, then, is not a neutral container that can house any kind of instruction, but is a decisive and determining factor in the shaping of teaching and learning. Tom proposes abandoning the present building-centered school. We may need a transitional strategy. One possibility might be a 3-2 system. Children go to the school building three days a week to learn from teachers and each other through conversation, dialog, and the older pedagogies, without technologies, or perhaps with the help of radio and television if the teacher is comfortable with them. The other two days might be spent with computers: at home, if the home has a computer--perhaps using a pen drive, as Paperless suggests--or using a community computer which might be in a telecenter, or a library, or in the school building. The growth of open universities, with all instruction at a distance,suggests that some day Tom's vision of a school without walls may be practical. We might want to go there in stages rather than all at once. Steve Eskow On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:03 AM, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are in a transition period where multiple solutions make sense rather than one size fits all. One of the issue to understand is that cost keeps coming down for digital products. Right now I can have a basic cell phone which will take a micro chip with 4GB. Cells are already available with most of the technology needed to deliver basic internet type services, even to being able to test. The cell is a ubiquitous device even in developing countries. So computers to lap tops to cells is a natural migration both in capabilities, cost and availability both on wireless and wifi delivery. Thin clients such as Sarah suggests, or variance thereof is what happens with google doc's and other server-based software, even in developed countries- safe/secure and not dependent on keeping data stored on portable media except for off-line purposes. OLPC is, as both Sarah and Alan suggest was based on the old model of a brick-space synchronous, age-defined cohort model for learning- bricks mapped into clicks from K-20. We need to rethink educational models first and formost rather than thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. Learning should be anytime/any place- some maybe synchronous in groups but most, given the exigencies of daily and seasonal life, particularly in countries where even students need to contribute to family income, need the flexibility offered by virtual technology. The problem is that the learning model has to change and the tech can help. But thinking about thin clients, portable media and other soft/hard tech will be limited if the models do not also change. tom tom abeles From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A more practical approach is community computers (in contrast to personal computers) available in a school, church, community center, etc., where everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to provide internet connection for one such community computing center than for personal laptops. A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful server would serve programs and internet access to many thin clients with limited computing and storage capacity. (Community users would have their own pen drives for storing their own files.) We (Pangaea Network) are testing this idea in Ghana in Asante Akim district. Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paperless Homework Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:02 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Dear Caroline, What you are doing is exactly what our project is about. We
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Without comment on the rest of the Steve's interesting thoughts, I would like to briefly comment on this point: We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about... Steve Eskow A major argument made by historian of education Larry Cuban is that, since radio, television, and film did not transform schools, information communications technologies (ICTs) will not do so either. Though I agree with the underlying idea that no technology in and of itself, will automatically transform institutions (and, indeed, critiquing naive assumptions about the deterministic role of technology has been one major focus of my work), I think the comparison between radio, television, and film, on the one hand, and ICTs, on the other, is problematic.Radio, television, and film have never been critical day-to-day tools of knowledge workers in the U.S., certainly not in the way that ICTs are. Almost anybody who is producing knowledge, whether in academic, business, entertainment fields, or otherwise, uses computers and the Internet constantly to do so, in ways that such knowledge workers seldom used radio, television, and film previously. The role of ICTs in education is thus much more natural and compelling than that of radio, television, and film. I would suggest that attempts to generalize a ceiling effect for the long-term role of ICTs in schools based on prior educational technology research on the diffusion of radio, television, and film are flawed. Mark -- Mark Warschauer Professor of Education and Informatics University of California, Irvine Berkeley Place 2001 (for mail); Berkeley Place 3000 (for visitors) Irvine, CA 92697-5500 tel: (949) 824-2526, fax: (949) 824-2965 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://www.gse.uci.edu/markw ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Mark, Your point out that the computer and the new communication technologies are important to knowledge workers in the new socioeconomy, while the older technologies of radio and television and film were not, and of course you are right. Your conclusion--that this difference will result in the new technologies finding their way into the schools--does not seem to speak to the point of the building-centered -teacher-centered school as itself an organized technology that accommodates some new technologies and pedagogies and resists others. To fashion an outlandish example, consider the assembly line as an organizing technology. If the suggestion is made to add a cell phone or computer to each station because the new knowledge economy us built around cell phones and computers, the counter is that the issue is not the needs of the larger society but the rhythms and routines of the assembly line, and whether cell phones and computers can somehow be adapted to the moving belt. Online universities seem to be doing very well: since there are no brick-and-mortar instructional technologies to contend with the new information technologies that problem is dissolved. Blended or hybrid approaches that combine traditional classroom and lecture hall instruction with online instruction seem to run into the conflict of technologies issue. I have a small collection of experiences with blended learning culled from The Chronicle of Higher Education and elsewhere that illustrate the clash. In one, a professor puts all of his lectures and readings online--and the students stop coming to class, and the professor has to require attendance. In several others, faculty hospitable to the computer ban computers from their classrooms because students are texting to friends or playing video games rather than attending to what is going on in the live classroom. If there is indeed a conflict between the computer and the 600-square foot classroom with a desk, blackboard, 30 tablet arm chairs, and a live teacher at a lectern , it may be that the needs of society for knowledge workers won't make for reconciliation. Steve Eskow On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Mark Warschauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without comment on the rest of the Steve's interesting thoughts, I would like to briefly comment on this point: We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about... Steve Eskow A major argument made by historian of education Larry Cuban is that, since radio, television, and film did not transform schools, information communications technologies (ICTs) will not do so either. Though I agree with the underlying idea that no technology in and of itself, will automatically transform institutions (and, indeed, critiquing naive assumptions about the deterministic role of technology has been one major focus of my work), I think the comparison between radio, television, and film, on the one hand, and ICTs, on the other, is problematic.Radio, television, and film have never been critical day-to-day tools of knowledge workers in the U.S., certainly not in the way that ICTs are. Almost anybody who is producing knowledge, whether in academic, business, entertainment fields, or otherwise, uses computers and the Internet constantly to do so, in ways that such knowledge workers seldom used radio, television, and film previously. The role of ICTs in education is thus much more natural and compelling than that of radio, television, and film. I would suggest that attempts to generalize a ceiling effect for the long-term role of ICTs in schools based on prior educational technology research on the diffusion of radio, television, and film are flawed. Mark -- Mark Warschauer Professor of Education and Informatics University of California, Irvine Berkeley Place 2001 (for mail); Berkeley Place 3000 (for visitors) Irvine, CA 92697-5500 tel: (949) 824-2526, fax: (949) 824-2965 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://www.gse.uci.edu/markw ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
We are in a transition period where multiple solutions make sense rather than one size fits all. One of the issue to understand is that cost keeps coming down for digital products. Right now I can have a basic cell phone which will take a micro chip with 4GB. Cells are already available with most of the technology needed to deliver basic internet type services, even to being able to test. The cell is a ubiquitous device even in developing countries. So computers to lap tops to cells is a natural migration both in capabilities, cost and availability both on wireless and wifi delivery. Thin clients such as Sarah suggests, or variance thereof is what happens with google doc's and other server-based software, even in developed countries- safe/secure and not dependent on keeping data stored on portable media except for off-line purposes. OLPC is, as both Sarah and Alan suggest was based on the old model of a brick-space synchronous, age-defined cohort model for learning- bricks mapped into clicks from K-20. We need to rethink educational models first and formost rather than thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. Learning should be anytime/any place- some maybe synchronous in groups but most, given the exigencies of daily and seasonal life, particularly in countries where even students need to contribute to family income, need the flexibility offered by virtual technology. The problem is that the learning model has to change and the tech can help. But thinking about thin clients, portable media and other soft/hard tech will be limited if the models do not also change. tom tom abeles From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A more practical approach is community computers (in contrast to personal computers) available in a school, church, community center, etc., where everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to provide internet connection for one such community computing center than for personal laptops. A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful server would serve programs and internet access to many thin clients with limited computing and storage capacity. (Community users would have their own pen drives for storing their own files.) We (Pangaea Network) are testing this idea in Ghana in Asante Akim district. Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paperless Homework Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:02 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Dear Caroline, What you are doing is exactly what our project is about. We believe that a practical approach should be the way rather than fancy ideas about One laptop per child for the developing countries. It isn't practical even in developed countries much less developing countries. It is in this direction that we have created a simple tool to create small sized tutorials and exercises to enable such multimeda contents to be saved in diskettes or Pen drives. Yes even diskettes can accommodate multimedia contents. So in the end the entire extra financial need of the students would be digitally connected would be the cost of a pen drive. It can contain the entire contents for the whole life of the students that is our aim. Computers, students would know how to get access to for those students without computers. The good thing about OLPC project is the development of low cost units and its low power needs with longer hours of operation. To use OLPC for each child in developing countries... it would never come to pass. An interesting article about our concept of Practical tech not high tech www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Currently we have tremendous response to our free for schools initiative in Malaysia. We would extend it to other developing countries including China, India and Indonesia which practically form nearly half the world's population. If we succeed here , our job is done. See videos of our contents here www.paperlesshomework.ning.com/video Want to really close the digital divide? Join us. It is the ONLY such project in the world. Regards Alan Foo www.paperlesshomework.com www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Dear Sarah, Yes I do agree that the community approach in school, church, community center, etc is a good way. This approach is similar to the telecentres that are currently extensively implemented and is about the only way to reach to the rural areas with satellite connections etc. This is one approach but is one of many. The main shortcoming lacking however, is how do you make CONTENTS available to those OUTSIDE the community centers which as you know may have far more computers than you have in the telecenters. These computers ,in homes, etc more often than not are idle and even if connected to Internet are used for games. For courseware and contents that are relevant to the students' everyday needs rarely one can find from the Internet ...and more often than not one has to spend far more time search than is worth the effort. I believe you do face this inhibitions too. Your users have to come to your center to make use of the contents and this would limit the effectiveness of reaching out to the masses. Not all have modern computers and broadband. What if, I say, you can just copy and paste in seconds, whatever contents that are required to learn for that day to a diskette(for old computers) or pen drives for those with Win XP etc and your users can just take them home to use them without crowding the few computers you have in your center? Isn't that would be more effective each child can take his/her time to understand the subject without even the need for Internet connections? Students without computers can use the center's computer at their own time, when teachers are not around or use their friend's computers. The trouble with the entire world's perception today I do always encounter is they think children would only be interested in rich multimedia contents otherwise they would not be interested. This statement I believe is one of the major reasons why the entire world develop contents are are expensive and rich in animations etc with the result that each module is so bloated in size that it must either be in CDs or be broadland required online. Such systems can never solve the digital divide and will fail to reach the in real needs of such contents - unless one has unlimited funds. That is why , in the entire world ICT in mass Education has failed. Not a singel country in the world ...including DEVELOPED countries are not able to implement ICT in Mass Educationmuch less the underdeveloped countries to which the OLPC is addressed. The concept of not solving this minimal factor and going on to think that giving every child a cheap laptop would solve the digital divide is again going the path of failure. It is already happening as we know the case of Nigeria giving up such projects. Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com Use our toolbar ... the channel you get updated on AGE... the solution to global digital divides. www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sat, 9/20/08, Sarah Blackmun-Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sarah Blackmun-Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group' digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 5:06 AM A more practical approach is community computers (in contrast to personal computers) available in a school, church, community center, etc., where everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to provide internet connection for one such community computing center than for personal laptops. A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful server would serve programs and internet access to many thin clients with limited computing and storage capacity. (Community users would have their own pen drives for storing their own files.) We (Pangaea Network) are testing this idea in Ghana in Asante Akim district. Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
While I do agree the increasing power of the mobile technology, and it would change many aspects of how learning would take place eventually in the world as price drops. The reality today is not so simple. Many in the underserved or rural areas hardly have anything close to even old computers not to mention about having access to latest models of mobiles. Moreover, the need is now not the future. Today we have to look what is suitable for the little funds that these developing countries to which OLPC is addressed at. First we teach them how to walk before we teach them how to run. Get first a practical solution and to us a practical solution. A mobile , its small size actually is not suitable for general education although it would be good for communications.. the other aspects of closing the digital divides. Ours we are talking about bring affordable education to the rural poor who has nothing. Even free reburbished old computers will do wonders.. provided of course the contents can be made available without the cost of broadband or even long download times of dialups. Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has overlooked this crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver contents...not the hardware it is the software. Until such is addressed, the digital divides we talked about will remain. It is not the hardware, it is the software. In Malaysia, we have companies and govt spending millions upon millions , and our annual budget exceeds RM31 billion(nearly US1 billion) per year in education for a small nation of only 27 million with good infrastructures), yet we hardly see any headway in ICT in mass education succeeding. We have major public listed companies undertaking bouth CD and online flash educational programs with highly trained experts.. .all gone bust in double quick time. Not one .. two went belly ups trying to us flash based online systems .. in Malaysia a quite well advanced nation in ICT. Now if we are to bring these kind of solutions to poor African countries... gosh how they can ever succeed I would really wonder. Using mobile? How can the small screen be used in used other than maybe able to click yes or no buttons. To use OLPC for each child...dont ever believe it will work in developing countries. Just do the maths. Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sun, 9/21/08, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:03 AM We are in a transition period where multiple solutions make sense rather than one size fits all. One of the issue to understand is that cost keeps coming down for digital products. Right now I can have a basic cell phone which will take a micro chip with 4GB. Cells are already available with most of the technology needed to deliver basic internet type services, even to being able to test. The cell is a ubiquitous device even in developing countries. So computers to lap tops to cells is a natural migration both in capabilities, cost and availability both on wireless and wifi delivery. Thin clients such as Sarah suggests, or variance thereof is what happens with google doc's and other server-based software, even in developed countries- safe/secure and not dependent on keeping data stored on portable media except for off-line purposes. OLPC is, as both Sarah and Alan suggest was based on the old model of a brick-space synchronous, age-defined cohort model for learning- bricks mapped into clicks from K-20. We need to rethink educational models first and formost rather than thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. Learning should be anytime/any place- some maybe synchronous in groups but most, given the exigencies of daily and seasonal life, particularly in countries where even students need to contribute to family income, need the flexibility offered by virtual technology. The problem is that the learning model has to change and the tech can help. But thinking about thin clients, portable media and other soft/hard tech will be limited if the models do not also change. tom tom abeles From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A more practical approach is community computers (in contrast to personal computers) available in a school, church, community center, etc., where everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to provide internet connection for one such community computing center than for personal laptops. A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Error correction to previous post... Sorry the amount allocated for education is RM31 billion ( that is about US10 billion not US1 billion) for a nation of 27 million. --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Paperless Homework [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 1:15 AM While I do agree the increasing power of the mobile technology, and it would change many aspects of how learning would take place eventually in the world as price drops. The reality today is not so simple. Many in the underserved or rural areas hardly have anything close to even old computers not to mention about having access to latest models of mobiles. Moreover, the need is now not the future. Today we have to look what is suitable for the little funds that these developing countries to which OLPC is addressed at. First we teach them how to walk before we teach them how to run. Get first a practical solution and to us a practical solution. A mobile , its small size actually is not suitable for general education although it would be good for communications.. the other aspects of closing the digital divides. Ours we are talking about bring affordable education to the rural poor who has nothing. Even free reburbished old computers will do wonders.. provided of course the contents can be made available without the cost of broadband or even long download times of dialups. Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has overlooked this crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver contents...not the hardware it is the software. Until such is addressed, the digital divides we talked about will remain. It is not the hardware, it is the software. In Malaysia, we have companies and govt spending millions upon millions , and our annual budget exceeds RM31 billion(nearly US1 billion) per year in education for a small nation of only 27 million with good infrastructures), yet we hardly see any headway in ICT in mass education succeeding. We have major public listed companies undertaking bouth CD and online flash educational programs with highly trained experts.. .all gone bust in double quick time. Not one .. two went belly ups trying to us flash based online systems .. in Malaysia a quite well advanced nation in ICT. Now if we are to bring these kind of solutions to poor African countries... gosh how they can ever succeed I would really wonder. Using mobile? How can the small screen be used in used other than maybe able to click yes or no buttons. To use OLPC for each child...dont ever believe it will work in developing countries. Just do the maths. Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Sun, 9/21/08, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:03 AM We are in a transition period where multiple solutions make sense rather than one size fits all. One of the issue to understand is that cost keeps coming down for digital products. Right now I can have a basic cell phone which will take a micro chip with 4GB. Cells are already available with most of the technology needed to deliver basic internet type services, even to being able to test. The cell is a ubiquitous device even in developing countries. So computers to lap tops to cells is a natural migration both in capabilities, cost and availability both on wireless and wifi delivery. Thin clients such as Sarah suggests, or variance thereof is what happens with google doc's and other server-based software, even in developed countries- safe/secure and not dependent on keeping data stored on portable media except for off-line purposes. OLPC is, as both Sarah and Alan suggest was based on the old model of a brick-space synchronous, age-defined cohort model for learning- bricks mapped into clicks from K-20. We need to rethink educational models first and formost rather than thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. Learning should be anytime/any place- some maybe synchronous in groups but most, given the exigencies of daily and seasonal life, particularly in countries where even students need to contribute to family income, need the flexibility offered by virtual technology. The problem is that the learning model has to change and the tech can help. But thinking about thin clients, portable media and other soft/hard tech will be limited if the models do not also change. tom tom abeles From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Paperless Homework wrote: Until such is addressed, the digital divides we talked about will remain. It is not the hardware, it is the software. Perhaps this is so, but I believe that telecommunications policy and pricing is actually more of an issue. Software helps, but infrastructure is necessary for the software and hardware to work. Improper policy surrounding infrastructure seems to be a problem in many countries where I have had my feet on the ground and PC on my lap - this being Latin America and the Caribbean. From what I have read and heard, other parts of the world are quite similar in this respect. And so, there I go... beating that policy drum again... (sorry) -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Dear Caroline, What you are doing is exactly what our project is about. We believe that a practical approach should be the way rather than fancy ideas about One laptop per child for the developing countries. It isn't practical even in developed countries much less developing countries. It is in this direction that we have created a simple tool to create small sized tutorials and exercises to enable such multimeda contents to be saved in diskettes or Pen drives. Yes even diskettes can accommodate multimedia contents. So in the end the entire extra financial need of the students would be digitally connected would be the cost of a pen drive. It can contain the entire contents for the whole life of the students that is our aim. Computers, students would know how to get access to for those students without computers. The good thing about OLPC project is the development of low cost units and its low power needs with longer hours of operation. To use OLPC for each child in developing countries... it would never come to pass. An interesting article about our concept of Practical tech not high tech www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Currently we have tremendous response to our free for schools initiative in Malaysia. We would extend it to other developing countries including China, India and Indonesia which practically form nearly half the world's population. If we succeed here , our job is done. See videos of our contents here www.paperlesshomework.ning.com/video Want to really close the digital divide? Join us. It is the ONLY such project in the world. Regards Alan Foo www.paperlesshomework.com www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:20 AM Thank you all for this interesting discussion. As someone embarking on a project similar to OLPC I'm interested in what advice you have on effective and ethical marketing and corporate relationships. School Key is One KeyFob per Child. Basically, we question that the best way for children to have ubiquitous access to computers is to have them carry laptops with them. Even if they did cost $100 in a city like Boston kids are not safe carrying home computers. Instead we propose to give each student a 1GB USB Key (currently $5 at Target, probably closer to $1 or $2 in bulk) and arrange for them to be able to boot every computer at school, the library, the ICT center and at home with it. When you buy one computer per student it will always be a compromise. Instead, afterschool programs can have big color screens for art, High use compuer labs can use low power computers, Science departments can have a cart of sturdy laptop with cameras and sensors, and low-cost referbished computers, that doen't even need a hard drives, could be supplied for home. Content can be automatically downloaded when connected to the internet at school letting students do homework offline if they don't have internet at home, then automatically save thier work back to the server when they reconnect at School. Currently this is a Grad school project, developed with open source software by me and Amy Bisiewicz, a Boston Public Schools IT professional, who attended Harvard Grad School of Education last year thanks to a scholarship program for Boston Public School employees. As an Internship for credit at HGSE, I am doing very intial pilot work this fall at two Boston schools. Right now we have no grants, no marketing, no corporate partners. Its seems clear to me that we need to change that, so I'm interested in what you think OLPC and others have done right and wrong in these arenas. Thanks! Caroline ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
A more practical approach is community computers (in contrast to personal computers) available in a school, church, community center, etc., where everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to provide internet connection for one such community computing center than for personal laptops. A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful server would serve programs and internet access to many thin clients with limited computing and storage capacity. (Community users would have their own pen drives for storing their own files.) We (Pangaea Network) are testing this idea in Ghana in Asante Akim district. Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paperless Homework Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:02 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Dear Caroline, What you are doing is exactly what our project is about. We believe that a practical approach should be the way rather than fancy ideas about One laptop per child for the developing countries. It isn't practical even in developed countries much less developing countries. It is in this direction that we have created a simple tool to create small sized tutorials and exercises to enable such multimeda contents to be saved in diskettes or Pen drives. Yes even diskettes can accommodate multimedia contents. So in the end the entire extra financial need of the students would be digitally connected would be the cost of a pen drive. It can contain the entire contents for the whole life of the students that is our aim. Computers, students would know how to get access to for those students without computers. The good thing about OLPC project is the development of low cost units and its low power needs with longer hours of operation. To use OLPC for each child in developing countries... it would never come to pass. An interesting article about our concept of Practical tech not high tech www.paperlesshomework.com/surf Currently we have tremendous response to our free for schools initiative in Malaysia. We would extend it to other developing countries including China, India and Indonesia which practically form nearly half the world's population. If we succeed here , our job is done. See videos of our contents here www.paperlesshomework.ning.com/video Want to really close the digital divide? Join us. It is the ONLY such project in the world. Regards Alan Foo www.paperlesshomework.com www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:20 AM Thank you all for this interesting discussion. As someone embarking on a project similar to OLPC I'm interested in what advice you have on effective and ethical marketing and corporate relationships. School Key is One KeyFob per Child. Basically, we question that the best way for children to have ubiquitous access to computers is to have them carry laptops with them. Even if they did cost $100 in a city like Boston kids are not safe carrying home computers. Instead we propose to give each student a 1GB USB Key (currently $5 at Target, probably closer to $1 or $2 in bulk) and arrange for them to be able to boot every computer at school, the library, the ICT center and at home with it. When you buy one computer per student it will always be a compromise. Instead, afterschool programs can have big color screens for art, High use compuer labs can use low power computers, Science departments can have a cart of sturdy laptop with cameras and sensors, and low-cost referbished computers, that doen't even need a hard drives, could be supplied for home. Content can be automatically downloaded when connected to the internet at school letting students do homework offline if they don't have internet at home, then automatically save thier work back to the server when they reconnect at School. Currently this is a Grad school project, developed with open source software by me and Amy Bisiewicz, a Boston Public Schools IT professional, who attended Harvard Grad School of Education last year thanks to a scholarship program for Boston Public School employees. As an Internship for credit at HGSE, I am doing very intial pilot work this fall at two Boston schools. Right now we have no grants, no marketing, no corporate partners. Its seems clear to me that we need to change that, so I'm interested in what you think
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
I regret that I do not understand what is being argued here.. Are we for or against corporate success or marketing or what have you?.. From the point of view of Development and technology for it, I would rather look at what gets achieved in terms of helping those who need help to get included in the progress that we achieve as a global society and create possibilities to make it more inclusive. If marketing does that, isn't that something we want? Marketing is but an instrument to extend the frontiers of progress. And we can also see it as an instrument of mopping profits. Much depends on how we see it. Any laptop will reside on top of an existing infrastructure and OLPC XO does not need anything more than what you and I need to access the world of technology enabled communication. In fact, what it needs is less than required for the world we seem to know a bit better as it has been designed to address and overcome those questions of infrastructure and other deficiencies. How does corporate success enter this discussion? If the ideas of technology for education and bridging the digital divide do converge, how do we want to achieve them? OLPC is a creative institution and having created the product would ideally like the world to take the next step of embracing and deploying it. However, how many of us can site a product, regardless of how needed and responsive to people's dream it may have been, really went beyond the its confines without a comprehensive marketing strategy? It will be educative and illustrative in this context. It has been successful in Uruguay and you may like to call it developed as well as Peru where the infrastructure is spread out thinly. It has succeeded at the pilot level in the villages of India where electricity may be available for a couple hours a day and it works where solar power is usable. As regards employment, would you recruit a high school kid who began learning on screen, using both the Windows and Linux from the first grade or someone who began touching the keyboards after passing out of school? Thanks much Satish Jha On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That it is more robust certainly is nice. However, the fact that infrastructure development is robbed by a well marketed feature filled (narrated below) *product* does not mean that it will solve anything. Odd that the iPhone was brought up - it has had such good marketing that people are buying it even in areas where the features don't work. If that's not corporate success, I don't know what is. But we're not talking about corporate success or are we? It seems to me that the mission of education and the closing of the digital divide have different goals when compared to corporate interests. The proof will be in the pudding. I'd like to hear success in any way, but I am fairly certain that the successes will mainly be seen in areas that... already have the necessary infrastructure in place. And in the long term, I have sincere doubts as to whether the OLPC will create employment for people once they do become computer literate in the context of the OLPC - or outside of the context. Good technology, but I seriously question the use of it. Satish Jha wrote: -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
I am not very amused when I read about OLPC as a tool for 3rd world. It sounds a patronizing attempt by the so called 1st world to experiment with 3rd world children. For your Phd, I am sure you will find it wont work since the intentions seem more experimental than anything else. So i agree with views Magda. Leonard Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you all the members of the list for your kind answers! I will try here to discuss some of the topics that have been raised:  Tim: the OLPC is said to be a quality tool for children of the developing world but what you pointed out is very true: people living in rural developing areas are going to appreciate any kind of technology that could be presented to them, as they do not have any alternative. So, the point is: why not offering them the technology that we all use everyday (a standard laptop) instead of a tool created to be a âlaptop for the third worldâ.  I am not sure that I agree with Satish when says that the OLPC is more advanced than a normal laptop, as it is thought as a game for children who arenât failiar with technology. It was proved by a recent research held from IBM that PCs and laptops introduced in primary schools as âgamesâ where making children ask why they do not have ânormalâ PCs and laptops, as the ones that they saw in other contexts. That is to say: are we sure that it is right to create a âgameâ of the first laptop that those children are going to use, just because they have never seen a laptop before? Whatâs the difference between the OLPC and the laptop that Taran suggested or the Asus EEE, which have now the same price than the OLPC one but are âseriousâ laptops?  Thank you all for suggestions, Magda --- Ven 5/9/08, Satish Jha ha scritto: Da: Satish Jha Oggetto: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Data: Venerdì 5 settembre 2008, 21:39 Magda, There is a bit of difference between making a PC and a learning PC for children. What we know as OLPC, without a dozen feature it has that do not come bundled with any other laptop, can be manufactured below $100. But add ruggedness, no moving parts, mesh networking, dual boot system, a screen that works well under the sun, a keyboard that is spill proof, a built in camera, a swiveling screen and an e-book feature and we are talking a serious package. retaining costs at $200 after adding all that narrated above and more is a feat in itself.. So OLPC is no ordinary laptop and the next version will be to laptops what i-phone is to cell phones and for less.. That said, we should encourage every initiative to reduce costs as the lower price points will undoubtedly increase the reach of computing, opening every newer frontier with drop in prices.. Thanks Magda Pischetola wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Norbert Bollow wrote: Yes, sure, but at the same time, it makes sense with respect to any given project to limit attention to what can conceivably be affected (positively or negatively) by that project. Being a pragmatist, I agree with you to an extent. However in this context, limiting the attention to what can be conceivably be affected would include the users rights as well. If we toss those out, we're really not trying to solve the problem on hand - just the symptoms. Let's consider for a moment the quotation from the High Tech No Rights? roundatable http://www.archive.org/details/hightechnorights_geneva which Claude Almansi gave in her recent posting: Despite the positive inputs from more progressive brands beginning early 2007, long-term problems still persisted in their Chinese supplier factories. They include substandard wages, excessive work hours, poor occupational health and safety, no rights to employment contracts and resignation, and no communication of corporate codes of conduct to workers. I would suggest that this sounds very much like a modern form of slavery. Actually, I think it more akin to indentured labor, but the point remains the same. In my opinion, silently accepting this kind of situation is very clearly totally unacceptable when one is at the same time making use of technical equipment from these sources. And yet the source is itself a developing country with a digital divide of it's own. That very same country employs people to 'work' in virtual worlds by 'farming' products that are otherwise difficult to get. The point is that the technical knowledge necessary to create those things is actually something that is not a bad thing. While I do have issues about China's occupation of Tibet, I do not believe that they have guns to the heads of Tibetan Buddhist Monks to produce cheap laptops. Indeed, entrepreneurship in China has increased - something noteworthy in a communist country. Things are changing, and those things may not be fast enough - but they are changing. In contrast, unemployed consumers of products in the United States may well envy having income that the employees of a Chinese manufacturer have. By the same logic, too, people probably shouldn't eat bananas or drink coffee. Or use any form of petroleum. I would say that this is a matter of principle which is totally independent of whether there are others on the planet who are even worse off... I cannot agree. We are all connected, even if we do not recognize it. A person in China makes parts of technology we all use. A person in India/Russia writes a part of software that we may use. A media outlet in the United States can make or break a product (or even get the public behind a war with no evidence). A diamond bought from South Africa may have blood on it. Pitch used on roads throughout the world is connected to Trinidad and Tobago. Aid from any number of people goes to countries based on which country has the most press pushing for aid. In simplifying, are we solving the equation or are we making an equation we are comfortable solving? In other words, I would suggest to interpret human rights as an obligation to insist that one's (direct and indirect) trade partners should verifiably adhere to resonable standards of conduct in how they treat people. Then it must be done universally - not selectively. Take a look around your house and really think about where stuff comes from. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Like others, I think a very interesting topic. On more practical concerns, given that you will be writing up your thesis in 4 years time, around 2012, will the OLPC still be a leading issue or will the technology have moved on to a totally different area? Alongside the legitimate human rights issues, there is also a politics, too, with early adopting countries (Nigeria, China, Libya, Thailand) hardly having a sterling democratic record. Human rights concerns are numerous, not only the production issues, but also balancing children's rights to education, media, and expression, with States obligations for development and community/people's participation in decisions made about them and their family Mike Hayes Dr Mike Hayes Director, PhD in Human Rights and Peace Office of Human Rights Studies and Social Development Faculty of Graduate Studies, Mahidol University Salaya, Nakorn Pathom Thailand 73170 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webpage: www.humanrights-mu.org ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Dear Magda, This is my opinion. Frankly I do not believe in this one PC per child concept. Giving one PC per Child is a project that would never work. The cost of implementation nationally for any country would be too high. It is one thing to give one PC for each child even if it is for US100, it is another to really effectively use those PCs and maintaining them. Facts have been proven that running such concept , not even one PC per child just a classrooms of 50 or so computers would cost a lot of money especially the cost of maintaining supporting equipments etc. Lately the Nigerian government dropped this kind of project after the large cost of maintaining the machines for just one class. Can one imagine how much it would cost for the entire school if one pc per child is to be a reality. These machines run mostly on Linux and have no CD drives would mean most of the source of contents would be through Internet or through local wireless links etc. If is a well known fact that even though Internet do contain lots of contents, the ones that are relevant to a particular child or class would most probably be not available. More time is spend searching then worth the time. This applies to all other students everywhere. Seldom any child really depend on the Internet for contents that are suitable to their use in classes. The good thing about ULPC is the low cost... that's it. These machines should be used as replacements for otherwise expensive PCs and the low power consumption. Other than that, I do not see much benefits in ULPCs that ordinary PCs or Laptops cannot do better. If one is to use OLPCs for one pc per child for an entire country, the logistics and cost required to implement would be We believe in being practical we believe in Practical Tech rather than High Tech. See an article about us in a latest magazine about our Practical tech... www.paperlesshomework.com/surf and this article as well... http://www.govtech.com/dc/articles/270167 So in the end, we believe it is the abilities of delivering useful contents to the rural areas and cost equitable access to contents by all in the country that would solve the problem of digital divides. OLPC to get the all poor students to have access to ICT? No it would never work. Regards Alan www.paperlesshomework.com An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach. Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 11:12 PM Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Marketing and corporate success can't be judged in isolation from the values that power them. Legitimate questions are: What ends is marketing being used for? How do it affect the well-being of the society? Is marketing responsible, truthful, positive? Same for corporate success: How does it help or hinder the goals of a people? Who is enriched, and who, if anyone, is made poorer? This sort of analysis is especially important in emerging economies where many people live in poverty. The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Satish Jha Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:38 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC I regret that I do not understand what is being argued here.. Are we for or against corporate success or marketing or what have you?.. From the point of view of Development and technology for it, I would rather look at what gets achieved in terms of helping those who need help to get included in the progress that we achieve as a global society and create possibilities to make it more inclusive. If marketing does that, isn't that something we want? Marketing is but an instrument to extend the frontiers of progress. And we can also see it as an instrument of mopping profits. Much depends on how we see it. Any laptop will reside on top of an existing infrastructure and OLPC XO does not need anything more than what you and I need to access the world of technology enabled communication. In fact, what it needs is less than required for the world we seem to know a bit better as it has been designed to address and overcome those questions of infrastructure and other deficiencies. How does corporate success enter this discussion? If the ideas of technology for education and bridging the digital divide do converge, how do we want to achieve them? OLPC is a creative institution and having created the product would ideally like the world to take the next step of embracing and deploying it. However, how many of us can site a product, regardless of how needed and responsive to people's dream it may have been, really went beyond the its confines without a comprehensive marketing strategy? It will be educative and illustrative in this context. It has been successful in Uruguay and you may like to call it developed as well as Peru where the infrastructure is spread out thinly. It has succeeded at the pilot level in the villages of India where electricity may be available for a couple hours a day and it works where solar power is usable. As regards employment, would you recruit a high school kid who began learning on screen, using both the Windows and Linux from the first grade or someone who began touching the keyboards after passing out of school? Thanks much Satish Jha On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That it is more robust certainly is nice. However, the fact that infrastructure development is robbed by a well marketed feature filled (narrated below) *product* does not mean that it will solve anything. Odd that the iPhone was brought up - it has had such good marketing that people are buying it even in areas where the features don't work. If that's not corporate success, I don't know what is. But we're not talking about corporate success or are we? It seems to me that the mission of education and the closing of the digital divide have different goals when compared to corporate interests. The proof will be in the pudding. I'd like to hear success in any way, but I am fairly certain that the successes will mainly be seen in areas that... already have the necessary infrastructure in place. And in the long term, I have sincere doubts as to whether the OLPC will create employment for people once they do become computer literate in the context of the OLPC - or outside of the context. Good technology, but I seriously question the use of it. Satish Jha wrote: -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Sarah Blackmun-Eskow wrote: Marketing and corporate success can't be judged in isolation from the values that power them. To at least a few, the values that power the word marketing and the phrase corporate success are implicit due to heuristics. Your point is valid, but changing the values does not excuse the use of the terms without proper qualification. Legitimate questions are: What ends is marketing being used for? How do it affect the well-being of the society? Is marketing responsible, truthful, positive? Same for corporate success: How does it help or hinder the goals of a people? Who is enriched, and who, if anyone, is made poorer? Take a look around. :-) This sort of analysis is especially important in emerging economies where many people live in poverty. I'd offer that it's not of specific importance in emerging economies but is of general importance in all economies - and especially in the global economy. The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes I'd offer that this quote doesn't take in the context the digital divide, but is a supreme motivator in assuring the bridging of it. :-) -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Thank you all for this interesting discussion. As someone embarking on a project similar to OLPC I'm interested in what advice you have on effective and ethical marketing and corporate relationships. School Key is One KeyFob per Child. Basically, we question that the best way for children to have ubiquitous access to computers is to have them carry laptops with them. Even if they did cost $100 in a city like Boston kids are not safe carrying home computers. Instead we propose to give each student a 1GB USB Key (currently $5 at Target, probably closer to $1 or $2 in bulk) and arrange for them to be able to boot every computer at school, the library, the ICT center and at home with it. When you buy one computer per student it will always be a compromise. Instead, afterschool programs can have big color screens for art, High use compuer labs can use low power computers, Science departments can have a cart of sturdy laptop with cameras and sensors, and low-cost referbished computers, that doen't even need a hard drives, could be supplied for home. Content can be automatically downloaded when connected to the internet at school letting students do homework offline if they don't have internet at home, then automatically save thier work back to the server when they reconnect at School. Currently this is a Grad school project, developed with open source software by me and Amy Bisiewicz, a Boston Public Schools IT professional, who attended Harvard Grad School of Education last year thanks to a scholarship program for Boston Public School employees. As an Internship for credit at HGSE, I am doing very intial pilot work this fall at two Boston schools. Right now we have no grants, no marketing, no corporate partners. Its seems clear to me that we need to change that, so I'm interested in what you think OLPC and others have done right and wrong in these arenas. Thanks! Caroline On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Sarah Blackmun-Eskow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marketing and corporate success can't be judged in isolation from the values that power them. Legitimate questions are: What ends is marketing being used for? How do it affect the well-being of the society? Is marketing responsible, truthful, positive? Same for corporate success: How does it help or hinder the goals of a people? Who is enriched, and who, if anyone, is made poorer? This sort of analysis is especially important in emerging economies where many people live in poverty. The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Satish Jha Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:38 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC I regret that I do not understand what is being argued here.. Are we for or against corporate success or marketing or what have you?.. From the point of view of Development and technology for it, I would rather look at what gets achieved in terms of helping those who need help to get included in the progress that we achieve as a global society and create possibilities to make it more inclusive. If marketing does that, isn't that something we want? Marketing is but an instrument to extend the frontiers of progress. And we can also see it as an instrument of mopping profits. Much depends on how we see it. Any laptop will reside on top of an existing infrastructure and OLPC XO does not need anything more than what you and I need to access the world of technology enabled communication. In fact, what it needs is less than required for the world we seem to know a bit better as it has been designed to address and overcome those questions of infrastructure and other deficiencies. How does corporate success enter this discussion? If the ideas of technology for education and bridging the digital divide do converge, how do we want to achieve them? OLPC is a creative institution and having created the product would ideally like the world to take the next step of embracing and deploying it. However, how many of us can site a product, regardless of how needed and responsive to people's dream it may have been, really went beyond the its confines without a comprehensive marketing strategy? It will be educative and illustrative in this context. It has been successful in Uruguay and you may like to call it developed as well as Peru where the infrastructure is spread out thinly. It has succeeded at the pilot level in the villages of India where electricity may be available for a couple hours a day and it works where solar power is usable. As regards employment, would you recruit a high school kid who began learning on screen
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Thank you all the members of the list for your kind answers! I will try here to discuss some of the topics that have been raised: Tim: the OLPC is said to be a quality tool for children of the developing world but what you pointed out is very true: people living in rural developing areas are going to appreciate any kind of technology that could be presented to them, as they do not have any alternative. So, the point is: why not offering them the technology that we all use everyday (a standard laptop) instead of a tool created to be a “laptop for the third world”. I am not sure that I agree with Satish when says that the OLPC is more advanced than a normal laptop, as it is thought as a game for children who aren’t failiar with technology. It was proved by a recent research held from IBM that PCs and laptops introduced in primary schools as “games” where making children ask why they do not have “normal” PCs and laptops, as the ones that they saw in other contexts. That is to say: are we sure that it is right to create a “game” of the first laptop that those children are going to use, just because they have never seen a laptop before? What’s the difference between the OLPC and the laptop that Taran suggested or the Asus EEE, which have now the same price than the OLPC one but are “serious” laptops? Thank you all for suggestions, Magda --- Ven 5/9/08, Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Da: Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Data: Venerdì 5 settembre 2008, 21:39 Magda, There is a bit of difference between making a PC and a learning PC for children. What we know as OLPC, without a dozen feature it has that do not come bundled with any other laptop, can be manufactured below $100. But add ruggedness, no moving parts, mesh networking, dual boot system, a screen that works well under the sun, a keyboard that is spill proof, a built in camera, a swiveling screen and an e-book feature and we are talking a serious package. retaining costs at $200 after adding all that narrated above and more is a feat in itself.. So OLPC is no ordinary laptop and the next version will be to laptops what i-phone is to cell phones and for less.. That said, we should encourage every initiative to reduce costs as the lower price points will undoubtedly increase the reach of computing, opening every newer frontier with drop in prices.. Thanks Magda Pischetola wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Magda, Have you used OLPC? It does not have the speed I would like, but it has XP and MS Office and several Linux based applications. Does that sound like something not good for you and me? How many adults played with Nintendo? Who was it made for? Better to take a good look at what you are trying to evaluate. At least the doubts I see in your communication may be addressed. How about this.. I have been using a PC since 1984, have used Macs, bought a dozen PCs and laptops in teh intervening years and even now I prefer to use Sony Vaio T 250.. until I saw the $200 XO.. At a fraction of the price of T250 I get a dozen more convenient features and I just wish it had 1 GB ram instead of 256 and I will use a laptop that looks good for kids any day.. Its as much of a PC as any PC is.. At $200 its a steal, feature by feature and more.. but for the speed.. But once they bring in 4GB flash memory in the next few months, it will be as good as any. Dell has just announced its halfway to XO today.. On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Thank you all the members of the list for your kind answers! I will try here to discuss some of the topics that have been raised: Tim: the OLPC is said to be a quality tool for children of the developing world but what you pointed out is very true: people living in rural developing areas are going to appreciate any kind of technology that could be presented to them, as they do not have any alternative. So, the point is: why not offering them the technology that we all use everyday (a standard laptop) instead of a tool created to be a laptop for the third world. I am not sure that I agree with Satish when says that the OLPC is more advanced than a normal laptop, as it is thought as a game for children who aren't failiar with technology. It was proved by a recent research held from IBM that PCs and laptops introduced in primary schools as games where making children ask why they do not have normal PCs and laptops, as the ones that they saw in other contexts. That is to say: are we sure that it is right to create a game of the first laptop that those children are going to use, just because they have never seen a laptop before? What's the difference between the OLPC and the laptop that Taran suggested or the Asus EEE, which have now the same price than the OLPC one but are serious laptops? Thank you all for suggestions, Magda --- Ven 5/9/08, Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Da: Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Data: Venerdì 5 settembre 2008, 21:39 -- Satish Jha President CEO OLPC India One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 T: 301 841 7422 F:301560 4909 www.laptop.org __ http://www.linkedin.com/myprofile?trk=tab_pro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satish_Jha ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Magda When one goes into an electronics store one finds many choices in PC's based on price/needs. When the military wants a laptop, they don't know where they will be next and they do not want to have a million choices because the troops and equipments have to be everywhere. But, we know that even though we ave laptops in harsh conditions around the developing world, not everyone needs to have the equivalent of a machine that can go anywhere at any time. The OLPC is an engineering marvel designed by academics and those who wanted to create one bullet proof machine to go anywhere under any condition rather than a platform that could be easily manufactured and modified for the specific need. And that is what they have done. I know that where we work, a low cost pc that could be based on any model in local stores in the US would work well for a large majority. Unfortunately OLPC is the HumVee of laptops and your concerns are well taken. Next stop? cell phones. cheers tom tom abeles Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:54:28 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Thank you all the members of the list for your kind answers! I will try here to discuss some of the topics that have been raised: Tim: the OLPC is said to be a quality tool for children of the developing world but what you pointed out is very true: people living in rural developing areas are going to appreciate any kind of technology that could be presented to them, as they do not have any alternative. So, the point is: why not offering them the technology that we all use everyday (a standard laptop) instead of a tool created to be a “laptop for the third world”. I am not sure that I agree with Satish when says that the OLPC is more advanced than a normal laptop, as it is thought as a game for children who aren’t failiar with technology. It was proved by a recent research held from IBM that PCs and laptops introduced in primary schools as “games” where making children ask why they do not have “normal” PCs and laptops, as the ones that they saw in other contexts. That is to say: are we sure that it is right to create a “game” of the first laptop that those children are going to use, just because they have never seen a laptop before? What’s the difference between the OLPC and the laptop that Taran suggested or the Asus EEE, which have now the same price than the OLPC one but are “serious” laptops? Thank you all for suggestions, Magda --- Ven 5/9/08, Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Da: Satish Jha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC A: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Data: Venerdì 5 settembre 2008, 21:39 Magda, There is a bit of difference between making a PC and a learning PC for children. What we know as OLPC, without a dozen feature it has that do not come bundled with any other laptop, can be manufactured below $100. But add ruggedness, no moving parts, mesh networking, dual boot system, a screen that works well under the sun, a keyboard that is spill proof, a built in camera, a swiveling screen and an e-book feature and we are talking a serious package. retaining costs at $200 after adding all that narrated above and more is a feat in itself.. So OLPC is no ordinary laptop and the next version will be to laptops what i-phone is to cell phones and for less.. That said, we should encourage every initiative to reduce costs as the lower price points will undoubtedly increase the reach of computing, opening every newer frontier with drop in prices.. Thanks Magda Pischetola wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Magda Brilliant... I love what you are doing... I am sort of envious as there are so many wonderful issues to research that I did not think of when I did my doctoral work.. Anyhow... on to your topic... there was a time when I was not a believer of OLPC... yet I am enlightened now after viewing OLPC from an education perspective. you ask for opinions... yes it is an amazing initiative... there have been various computer projects that have brought to light the need for low power devices that are appropriate for emerging markets, yet it is probably OLPC that has opened more disruptive discussion on deployment in the largely ignored segment of those who cannot afford mainstream technology at developed world prices. Yet the real importance is that OLPC is not about the technology... sure it brings amazing technology to light... but lift the sheets and you will see it is about changing the way we teach and learn... in my personal opinion it is about thinking out of the box, a realization that if one learns how to learn they need not depend on schools... if deployed correctly it can give kids a tool that will excite them in their exploration of the world around them - opening up new paths to creative inquiry where encouraging their community to take rethink traditional rote learning of pre-digested approved curriculum. I suggest seeing OLPC in action in a remote/rural or disadvantaged community... the greatest change will be visible where few options for decent quality schooling are present. best of luck on your study... hope you will regularly report back to us... Cheers Tim __ John Tim Denny, Ph.D. Advisor- International Development, Education and ICT Executive Director, PC4peace http://www.pc4peace.org Advisory Board, Masters of Development Studies -RUPP International Journal of Multicultural Education, Electronic Green Journal http://www.avuedigitalservices.com/VR/drjtdenny Join Cambodia Joomla! Users group - http://groups.google.com/jugcam The diligent farmer plants trees of which he himself will never see the fruit. Cicero (106-43 BCE) On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Oddly enough, this morning I came across a true '$100 PC' in catching up on a few things: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9413803799.html?kc=rss In October, Shenzhen China-based HiVision will ship a MIPs-based Linux mini-notebook for $98. The company is currently offering a similar machine for $120, according to a video blog report from the /Internationale Funkausstellunga/ (IFA) consumer electronics show in Berlin this week ...The NB0700 pictured at right offers 512MB DDR2, a 30GB hard drive, and a 7-inch 800x480 backlit display. Other features include an Ethernet port, 802.11 b/g WiFi, two USB 2.0 ports, an SD card reader, microphone and speakers, and VGA output. The NB0700 is said to offer three hours of battery life and weighs just under two pounds (900 grams). The site does not specify what type of Linux is used... Magda Pischetola wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Magda. I don't know if you've heard or not but Birmingham, Alabama is the first large scale dissemination of the XO laptops in the United States. Birmingham is a high poverty city with around 90% African American residents. I have a grant from the National Science Foundation to examine the educational, career, and social impacts of the XO laptops in Birmingham. We're focusing more on how technology usage changes and the various types of impacts of this usage on the students and teachers. I applaud your efforts to do field research on the impacts of the XOs. I think there is a lot more research like this needed. I have just recently learned that there is an anthropologist from Denmark who is here in Birmingham doing some field research on the XOs. If you're interested I'll be glad to pass along his contact info (with his permission). You can email me off list if you'd like his info. I look forward to hearing more about your work! Shelia * Shelia R. Cotten, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Sociology 460N Heritage Hall 1401 University Blvd. 1530 3rd Ave. S. Birmingham, AL 35294-1152 205-934-8678 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JTD Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:26 AM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Magda Brilliant... I love what you are doing... I am sort of envious as there are so many wonderful issues to research that I did not think of when I did my doctoral work.. Anyhow... on to your topic... there was a time when I was not a believer of OLPC... yet I am enlightened now after viewing OLPC from an education perspective. you ask for opinions... yes it is an amazing initiative... there have been various computer projects that have brought to light the need for low power devices that are appropriate for emerging markets, yet it is probably OLPC that has opened more disruptive discussion on deployment in the largely ignored segment of those who cannot afford mainstream technology at developed world prices. Yet the real importance is that OLPC is not about the technology... sure it brings amazing technology to light... but lift the sheets and you will see it is about changing the way we teach and learn... in my personal opinion it is about thinking out of the box, a realization that if one learns how to learn they need not depend on schools... if deployed correctly it can give kids a tool that will excite them in their exploration of the world around them - opening up new paths to creative inquiry where encouraging their community to take rethink traditional rote learning of pre-digested approved curriculum. I suggest seeing OLPC in action in a remote/rural or disadvantaged community... the greatest change will be visible where few options for decent quality schooling are present. best of luck on your study... hope you will regularly report back to us... Cheers Tim __ John Tim Denny, Ph.D. Advisor- International Development, Education and ICT Executive Director, PC4peace http://www.pc4peace.org Advisory Board, Masters of Development Studies -RUPP International Journal of Multicultural Education, Electronic Green Journal http://www.avuedigitalservices.com/VR/drjtdenny Join Cambodia Joomla! Users group - http://groups.google.com/jugcam The diligent farmer plants trees of which he himself will never see the fruit. Cicero (106-43 BCE) On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Magda Pischetola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In October, Shenzhen China-based HiVision will ship a MIPs-based Linux mini-notebook for $98. The company is currently offering a similar machine for $120, according to a video blog report from the /Internationale Funkausstellunga/ (IFA) consumer electronics show in Berlin this week ...The NB0700 pictured at right offers 512MB DDR2, a 30GB hard drive, and a 7-inch 800x480 backlit display. Other features include an Ethernet port, 802.11 b/g WiFi, two USB 2.0 ports, an SD card reader, microphone and speakers, and VGA output. The NB0700 is said to offer three hours of battery life and weighs just under two pounds (900 grams). The site does not specify what type of Linux is used... While I find it very cool to see inexpensive GNU/Linux based devices with PC-like functionality becoming available, I wonder whether the question about the working conditions of the workers who produce these devices should not also be prominently raised, researched and discussed. Are their human rights being respected? Greetings, Norbert. -- Norbert Bollow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Informatics Management and Consulting for Adaptability and Benefit/Cost Optimization in Harmony with Human Rights and Needs ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Magda, Good to hear about your research interests. At the risk of being self-promoting, you may want to have a look at my two most recent books, one on laptop programs in school (Laptops and Literacy) and one on approaches to attacking the digital divide (Technology and Social Inclusion). I personally am very interested in the way that social context shapes the use of technology in learning. In that sense, I think some kind of comparative or multi-site case study that looks that the implementation of an OLPC project in 2+ sites or countries could be very interesting. Issues in this kind of study to look at could include how national or local educational policy, social context of instruction, teacher background and beliefs, educational goals, student characteristics, etc. shape how the implementation, teaching and learning processes, and outcomes in diverse contexts. I received a recent small grant to investigate an OLPC site in Mexico. A graduate student of mine is working on it and the study is in early planning (if anyone has any suggestions of contacts in Mexico regarding laptop-intensive education there, let me know.) Mark Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Mark Warschauer Professor of Education and Informatics University of California, Irvine Berkeley Place 2001 (for mail); Berkeley Place 3000 (for visitors) Irvine, CA 92697-5500 tel: (949) 824-2526, fax: (949) 824-2965 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://www.gse.uci.edu/markw ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Magda, We are implementing OLPC in New York City also and looking at researching its impact in two elementary schools. My gut is that its school leadership that will make all the difference. However, I wanted to make sure you had seen the site. We will be doing another study that will look at impact on teacher behaviors and student outcomes. http://olpcnyc.wordpress.com/ Lynette Guastaferro Executive Director Teaching Matters, Inc. 475 Riverside Drive, Suite 1270 New York, NY 10115 www.teachingmatters.org 212.870.3505 what's new... www.writingmatters.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Warschauer Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:14 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Magda, Good to hear about your research interests. At the risk of being self-promoting, you may want to have a look at my two most recent books, one on laptop programs in school (Laptops and Literacy) and one on approaches to attacking the digital divide (Technology and Social Inclusion). I personally am very interested in the way that social context shapes the use of technology in learning. In that sense, I think some kind of comparative or multi-site case study that looks that the implementation of an OLPC project in 2+ sites or countries could be very interesting. Issues in this kind of study to look at could include how national or local educational policy, social context of instruction, teacher background and beliefs, educational goals, student characteristics, etc. shape how the implementation, teaching and learning processes, and outcomes in diverse contexts. I received a recent small grant to investigate an OLPC site in Mexico. A graduate student of mine is working on it and the study is in early planning (if anyone has any suggestions of contacts in Mexico regarding laptop-intensive education there, let me know.) Mark Dear collegues, I've been reading with great interests your posts in the latest months and now I'd like you to ask your opinion about a topic that is going to be an important part of my research. I am doing my PhD in Italy with a project on the Digital divide from the point of view of Education. I am studying how can education reduce the DD with media literacy and how teachers can help children to achieve a good level of the so-called digital skills, to access ICT and Internet and to produce development. Now, this year I will follow a field research in a primary school where teachers are going to introduce the OLPC laptop as a tool in their method of theaching. Then, in the new year I'd like to compare the results to another area of the world (I'm thinking of Buenos Ayres, Argentina). I'm asking to you all what you think - out of any preconcept that I might share - about the initiative of OLPC in the world (if it is a goof initiave or not and why) and which aspect would you stress in a field research like this one (e.g. skills of the teacher, self-learning of the child, creativity and flexibility of the project, etc.). I will appreciate very much your help. Thank you! Magda Pischetola __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Mark Warschauer Professor of Education and Informatics University of California, Irvine Berkeley Place 2001 (for mail); Berkeley Place 3000 (for visitors) Irvine, CA 92697-5500 tel: (949) 824-2526, fax: (949) 824-2965 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://www.gse.uci.edu/markw ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Norbert Bollow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In October, Shenzhen China-based HiVision will ship a MIPs-based Linux mini-notebook for $98. The company is currently offering a similar machine for $120, according to a video blog report from the /Internationale Funkausstellunga/ (IFA) consumer electronics show in Berlin this week(...) While I find it very cool to see inexpensive GNU/Linux based devices with PC-like functionality becoming available, I wonder whether the question about the working conditions of the workers who produce these devices should not also be prominently raised, researched and discussed. Are their human rights being respected? A very important question, Norbert - already when the Asus EEE (which looks very much like this HiVision notebook) came out, I was reminded of the same questions, raised for instance on March 7, 2007, at a roundtable of the High Tech No Rights campaign at the Geneva Institut Universitaire d'Etudes du Développement (1), though about expensive computers. A year later, the same associations published a follow-up report about the situation in China (2) which states: Despite the positive inputs from more progressive brands beginning early 2007, long-term problems still persisted in their Chinese supplier factories. They include substandard wages, excessive work hours, poor occupational health and safety, no rights to employment contracts and resignation, and no communication of corporate codes of conduct to workers. And in the introduction to this study, the site of the action states that Paying ca CHF 50 (ca US$ 35) is enough to double the spending for wages, respect of [fair] work hours, welfare prestations and security measures (3). If US$ 35 is the cost for manpower in the expensive computers examined in the study, how much is spent on manpower in computers as cheap as the Asus or HiVision ones? Best Claude (1) Info about the campaign at www.fair-computer.ch (in German, French and Italian) - audio recording (ogg and mp3) of the roundtable downloadable from http://www.archive.org/details/hightechnorights_geneva (partly in French and partly in English). (2) High Tech - No Rights? A One Year Follow Up Report on the Working Conditions in the Electronic Hardware Sector in China - May 2008 http://www.fair-computer.ch/cms/fileadmin/user_upload/computer-Kampagne/Pressekonferenz_20.Mai/A_one_year_follow_up_study_final.pdf - 6.9 Mb (English) (3) translated from http://www.fair-computer.ch/cms/index.php?id=413L=2 Environ 50 francs supplémentaires suffisent à doubler les dépenses liées aux salaires, au respect du temps de travail, aux prestations sociales et aux mesures de sécurité. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
That it is more robust certainly is nice. However, the fact that infrastructure development is robbed by a well marketed feature filled (narrated below) *product* does not mean that it will solve anything. Odd that the iPhone was brought up - it has had such good marketing that people are buying it even in areas where the features don't work. If that's not corporate success, I don't know what is. But we're not talking about corporate success or are we? It seems to me that the mission of education and the closing of the digital divide have different goals when compared to corporate interests. The proof will be in the pudding. I'd like to hear success in any way, but I am fairly certain that the successes will mainly be seen in areas that... already have the necessary infrastructure in place. And in the long term, I have sincere doubts as to whether the OLPC will create employment for people once they do become computer literate in the context of the OLPC - or outside of the context. Good technology, but I seriously question the use of it. Satish Jha wrote: Magda, There is a bit of difference between making a PC and a learning PC for children. What we know as OLPC, without a dozen feature it has that do not come bundled with any other laptop, can be manufactured below $100. But add ruggedness, no moving parts, mesh networking, dual boot system, a screen that works well under the sun, a keyboard that is spill proof, a built in camera, a swiveling screen and an e-book feature and we are talking a serious package. retaining costs at $200 after adding all that narrated above and more is a feat in itself.. So OLPC is no ordinary laptop and the next version will be to laptops what i-phone is to cell phones and for less.. That said, we should encourage every initiative to reduce costs as the lower price points will undoubtedly increase the reach of computing, opening every newer frontier with drop in prices.. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
