Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[novice2 via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 07:29:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
wrote:
The "anonymous class" feature question, I was a bit stunned at 
first, before I saw what it actually was.


i can't pass it too - only looking to sources.
i tried "auto type deduction", "type deduction" etc...
imho, "name of feature" - bad question choice.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 06:52:23 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 01:48:57 UTC, krzaq wrote:

[snip>
As for math/algorithms, this one feels too advanced:

return iota(9).reduce!"a+b";


I think it's a pretty good (albeit slightly advanced) question. 9 
is a bit high though. iota(4) would probably suffice.



I could add links to DPaste and the #d IRC channel.


Both good ideas.


tl;dr: waaay too difficult


Well, pull requests are welcome. However, I should add that the 
rate of false positives for spam detection is extremely low. 
Yesterday, four valid posting attempts were challenged with a 
CAPTCHA, and all were caused by StopForumSpam not understanding 
the IP address, which has now been fixed.


If it's that low than I'm not worried about it anymore. The 
captcha was just very familiar to me before you fixed the IP 
address problem.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 06:44:17 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

[snip]
As I said, it's not about bots any more. The wiki got flooded 
after one person solved the D-specific question, after which 
the old CAPTCHA became useless.


Ah yeah, that's right. I forgot that was your goal. I'm still 
worried it'll turn people away though.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 2014-12-02 22:41, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

I'm sure you all are as tired of the occasional spam that hits these
lists as I was deleting it. (Mailing list users in particular, I guess,
since we can't delete an email once it was sent out.) Most of the spam
was coming in through the forum, so I suppose I was responsible for
[not] keeping it out.

Although forum.dlang.org has had a spam check and used reCAPTCHA since
it was announced, it is only somewhat effective against fully-automated
bots - it is powerless against humans paid to post spamverts on forums
web-wide, which is what the current spam economy seems to be gravitating
towards.

Enter DCaptcha, a question-answer challenge tailored for D programmers.
Its goals are to challenge posters of suspicious-looking content with
questions that should be easy to answer to D programmers, and impossible
for non-technical people with no incentive to learn or research stuff
(i.e. spammers). DCaptcha is already in use on the D wiki
(wiki.dlang.org), with great success - DCaptcha's debut cut the
short-lived explosion in wiki spam to zero.

For an idea of what sort of questions DCaptcha asks, you can demo it on
the following page, so you don't have to clutter the forum with test posts:

http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php


The "anonymous class" feature question, I was a bit stunned at first, 
before I saw what it actually was.


--
/Jacob Carlborg

Re: dsource.org moved

[Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 2014-12-02 23:20, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

DSource in the headlines? In 2014? Shocking, I know.

Since Brad is no longer an active D user, and the website has had spotty
uptime lately, I've offered to take over the hosting and any maintenance.

Although opinions exist that the site should simply be shut down, I
think archiving it would be a better approach. The website has
historical relevance to the D community, and might be required to get
ancient D code running again. For example, we could make things
read-only and make it obvious on every project page that "we don't go to
DSource any more". I can't exactly undertake a large redesign, but we
can discuss our options.


Could we put a banner (or similar) at the top of every page with some 
appropriate text as a warning?


--
/Jacob Carlborg

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 01:48:57 UTC, krzaq wrote:
Asking for feature names is a very bad choice, you're 
essentially excluding all beginners and it's almost impossible 
to google the answers (you want to exclude lazy uninterested 
humans, not all of them, right?).


The answers not being Google-able is a goal. The Wiki CAPTCHA was 
easily defeated when a spammer Googled the answer.


For example, apparently calling the following a "raw string" or 
"raw string literal" is faux pas in the D language.


There are many acceptable answers for that question.


As for math/algorithms, this one feels too advanced:

return iota(9).reduce!"a+b";


I could add links to DPaste and the #d IRC channel.


tl;dr: waaay too difficult


Well, pull requests are welcome. However, I should add that the 
rate of false positives for spam detection is extremely low. 
Yesterday, four valid posting attempts were challenged with a 
CAPTCHA, and all were caused by StopForumSpam not understanding 
the IP address, which has now been fixed.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 3 December 2014 at 00:56:12 UTC, Brad Anderson 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 21:56:31 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

[snip]

I hope so too! The CAPTCHA only triggers on a spam check fail, 
which should not occur for normal forum content.


I get the captcha every single time I post at home. I suspect 
it's because I'm on IPv6. Everything else about home and work 
is almost identical (same browser versions, same extensions, 
same ISP, same OS, almost the same hardware).


Right, that's because StopForumSpam can't understand IPv6, and we 
treated spam checking errors as spam just to be cautious. That 
should be fixed as of last night.


No algorithms, no math. Just extremely basic stuff. Nobody, not 
even our weirdly efficient resident furniture spam bot is going 
to take the time to write a bot to answer a question like that.


As I said, it's not about bots any more. The wiki got flooded 
after one person solved the D-specific question, after which the 
old CAPTCHA became useless.

Re: dsource.org moved

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 23:02:32 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 22:20:29 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

DSource in the headlines? In 2014? Shocking, I know.

Since Brad is no longer an active D user, and the website has 
had spotty uptime lately, I've offered to take over the 
hosting and any maintenance.


Although opinions exist that the site should simply be shut 
down, I think archiving it would be a better approach. The 
website has historical relevance to the D community, and might 
be required to get ancient D code running again. For example, 
we could make things read-only and make it obvious on every 
project page that "we don't go to DSource any more". I can't 
exactly undertake a large redesign, but we can discuss our 
options.


Planet D (planet.dsource.org) is moved as well, and should 
continue to operate merrily. If your D blog's not there, let 
me know!


My blog is not there, but it's not pure D blog:

defenestrate.eu
defenestrate.eu/rss.html


Any way you can provide an RSS or ATOM feed for just the posts 
tagged D?

Re: d-apt source changed!

[deadalnix via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Sunday, 30 November 2014 at 02:20:04 UTC, Jordi Sayol via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
d-apt  changed the distribution 
name from "dmd" to "d-apt".


Download the last "d-apt.list" to update:
$ sudo wget 
http://master.dl.sourceforge.net/project/d-apt/files/d-apt.list 
-O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/d-apt.list


The new distribution allows to install any deb package version 
available at d-apt.
i.e. "dmd-bin" deb package is available for versions 2.064.2, 
2.065.0 and 2.066.1

To install an old dmd version:
$ sudo apt-get install dmd-bin=2.064.2-0 
libphobos2-dev=2.064.2-0


Legacy distribution will be disabled on dmd v2.067.0 release.


Ho, I was unaware of this. Looks like something I should be using.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Dylan Allbee via Digitalmars-d-announce]

string k = x"2e dd 203F";

This seems severely punishing to people trying to learn D, 
especially as a first programming language. Is that really the 
right approach?

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[ketmar via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 01:48:55 +
krzaq via Digitalmars-d-announce 
wrote:

> Sure, this will eliminate spammers. But I wonder what the word of 
> mouth will be:
>  Have you tried asking on the D forum?
>  Yeah, but they thought I was a spammer and wouldn't let me 
> post.
>  Oh, well, maybe try to do it in python.
ah, the perfect filter!


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[krzaq via Digitalmars-d-announce]

Asking for feature names is a very bad choice, you're essentially 
excluding all beginners and it's almost impossible to google the 
answers (you want to exclude lazy uninterested humans, not all of 
them, right?). Besides, I thought D was supposed to be the type 
of language one should be able to successfully program with 
without the knowledge of formal names.


For example, apparently calling the following a "raw string" or 
"raw string literal" is faux pas in the D language.


What is the name of the D language syntax feature illustrated 
in the following fragment of D code?


string A = q"DELIM
`Why with an anxious look at the
door-- Pray, what is the Project (and
any other medium if you please!
"William the Conqueror, whose cause
was favoured by the carrier,' she
thought; `and how funny it'll seem to
see that she let the jury--'
DELIM";


There were others and I don't think they were right either. Sure, 
I got slices right (oh wait, "slices" wouldn't be a valid answer, 
actually), but I was sure the "anonymous class" was meant to be 
"constructor" - it is that, right? This feels a lot like poetry 
in the high school: "what did the author mean"?


As for math/algorithms, this one feels too advanced:

return iota(9).reduce!"a+b";
So you need to know what `iota` and `reduce` do (okay, that can 
be googled), understand this weird lambda syntax and know that 
`iota(n)` will not generate an element equal to `n` just to know 
that it will return sum of numbers from 1 to 8. And then you're 
required either to calculate it the tedious way or know that sum 
from 1 to n equals `n*(n+1)/2`.


Sure, this will eliminate spammers. But I wonder what the word of 
mouth will be:

 Have you tried asking on the D forum?
 Yeah, but they thought I was a spammer and wouldn't let me 
post.

 Oh, well, maybe try to do it in python.

tl;dr: waaay too difficult

Re: dsource.org moved

[Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 23:02:32 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:

[snip]

My blog is not there, but it's not pure D blog:

defenestrate.eu
defenestrate.eu/rss.html


If you can add an rss feed for specific categories he could just 
add that. I know he's done that for some of the planet D blogs.


I'd like to see yours included. It's good reading.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 21:56:31 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

[snip]

I hope so too! The CAPTCHA only triggers on a spam check fail, 
which should not occur for normal forum content.


I get the captcha every single time I post at home. I suspect 
it's because I'm on IPv6. Everything else about home and work is 
almost identical (same browser versions, same extensions, same 
ISP, same OS, almost the same hardware).



It frequently takes me a few attempts on these and I've been 
following the language for years (mostly because of simple 
mistake in my math or something like forgetting iota has an open 
right boundary).


Maybe make the ones on d.learn extremely simple.

---
What does the follow program print?

void main()
{
import std.stdio : writeln;
writeln("foo");
}
---

No algorithms, no math. Just extremely basic stuff. Nobody, not 
even our weirdly efficient resident furniture spam bot is going 
to take the time to write a bot to answer a question like that.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[bearophile via Digitalmars-d-announce]

Vladimir Panteleev:


http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php


Very nice, we can help spammers learn some D and become some day 
valid D developers :-)


Bye,
bearophile

Re: dsource.org moved

[Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 12/2/2014 2:20 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

DSource in the headlines? In 2014? Shocking, I know.

Since Brad is no longer an active D user, and the website has had spotty uptime
lately, I've offered to take over the hosting and any maintenance.

Although opinions exist that the site should simply be shut down, I think
archiving it would be a better approach. The website has historical relevance to
the D community, and might be required to get ancient D code running again. For
example, we could make things read-only and make it obvious on every project
page that "we don't go to DSource any more". I can't exactly undertake a large
redesign, but we can discuss our options.


This is good news. Keeping it available is what is most important. I wonder if 
the projects themselves can be migrated to github - then if someone wants to 
update one and add it to dub, that'd be cool.




Planet D (planet.dsource.org) is moved as well, and should continue to operate
merrily. If your D blog's not there, let me know!


Pretty dazz!

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d-announce]

I suppose one way to "cheat" is to just compile and run the code.

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Eric via Digitalmars-d-announce]

I got stumped on the delimited string question, but I was
able to get the answer by viewing the page source in my web 
browser.


-Eric


On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 21:41:28 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:
I'm sure you all are as tired of the occasional spam that hits 
these lists as I was deleting it. (Mailing list users in 
particular, I guess, since we can't delete an email once it was 
sent out.) Most of the spam was coming in through the forum, so 
I suppose I was responsible for [not] keeping it out.


Although forum.dlang.org has had a spam check and used 
reCAPTCHA since it was announced, it is only somewhat effective 
against fully-automated bots - it is powerless against humans 
paid to post spamverts on forums web-wide, which is what the 
current spam economy seems to be gravitating towards.


Enter DCaptcha, a question-answer challenge tailored for D 
programmers. Its goals are to challenge posters of 
suspicious-looking content with questions that should be easy 
to answer to D programmers, and impossible for non-technical 
people with no incentive to learn or research stuff (i.e. 
spammers). DCaptcha is already in use on the D wiki 
(wiki.dlang.org), with great success - DCaptcha's debut cut the 
short-lived explosion in wiki spam to zero.


For an idea of what sort of questions DCaptcha asks, you can 
demo it on the following page, so you don't have to clutter the 
forum with test posts:


http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php

Source code:

https://github.com/CyberShadow/dcaptcha

Pull requests for more challenges are welcome. You can find 
some goals for new challenges at the top of dcaptcha.d.


Previous discussion (w.r.t. the D wiki):

http://forum.dlang.org/post/tpflbvlfutjwyvqmo...@forum.dlang.org

Re: dsource.org moved

[Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 22:20:29 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

DSource in the headlines? In 2014? Shocking, I know.

Since Brad is no longer an active D user, and the website has 
had spotty uptime lately, I've offered to take over the hosting 
and any maintenance.


Although opinions exist that the site should simply be shut 
down, I think archiving it would be a better approach. The 
website has historical relevance to the D community, and might 
be required to get ancient D code running again. For example, 
we could make things read-only and make it obvious on every 
project page that "we don't go to DSource any more". I can't 
exactly undertake a large redesign, but we can discuss our 
options.


Planet D (planet.dsource.org) is moved as well, and should 
continue to operate merrily. If your D blog's not there, let me 
know!


My blog is not there, but it's not pure D blog:

defenestrate.eu
defenestrate.eu/rss.html

dsource.org moved

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

DSource in the headlines? In 2014? Shocking, I know.

Since Brad is no longer an active D user, and the website has had 
spotty uptime lately, I've offered to take over the hosting and 
any maintenance.


Although opinions exist that the site should simply be shut down, 
I think archiving it would be a better approach. The website has 
historical relevance to the D community, and might be required to 
get ancient D code running again. For example, we could make 
things read-only and make it obvious on every project page that 
"we don't go to DSource any more". I can't exactly undertake a 
large redesign, but we can discuss our options.


Planet D (planet.dsource.org) is moved as well, and should 
continue to operate merrily. If your D blog's not there, let me 
know!

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 12/02/2014 01:56 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

> The CAPTCHA only triggers on a spam check fail, which should
> not occur for normal forum content.

Ok, that sounds great.

>> Ouch. I could pass the first question in two tries but I can't pass
>> the second one. :)
>
> They're randomly generated, so I don't know which one that would be.

It was this one:

  https://github.com/CyberShadow/dcaptcha/blob/master/dcaptcha.d#L87

I think I figured it out: After two failed attempts, I accepted 
Firefox's "Prevent this page from creating additional dialogs" offer. 
The problem is, when I do that, I don't see the "Correct!" dialog either 
and remain on the page without any indication that I guessed correctly. :p


> Either way, refresh to get a different one (this works on the forum, 
too).


That worked.

Ali

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 2 December 2014 at 21:53:15 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

On 12/02/2014 01:41 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

> impossible for non-technical people with no incentive to learn
> or research stuff

I hope this will not alienate complete beginners. They should 
be able to talk to us on the D.learn newsgroup.


I hope so too! The CAPTCHA only triggers on a spam check fail, 
which should not occur for normal forum content.



> For an idea of what sort of questions DCaptcha asks, you can
demo it on
> the following page, so you don't have to clutter the forum
with test posts:
>
> http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php

Ouch. I could pass the first question in two tries but I can't 
pass the second one. :)


They're randomly generated, so I don't know which one that would 
be. Either way, refresh to get a different one (this works on the 
forum, too).

Re: forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 12/02/2014 01:41 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

> impossible for non-technical people with no incentive to learn
> or research stuff

I hope this will not alienate complete beginners. They should be able to 
talk to us on the D.learn newsgroup.


> For an idea of what sort of questions DCaptcha asks, you can demo it on
> the following page, so you don't have to clutter the forum with test 
posts:

>
> http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php

Ouch. I could pass the first question in two tries but I can't pass the 
second one. :)


Ali

forum.dlang.org is now using DCaptcha

[Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d-announce]

I'm sure you all are as tired of the occasional spam that hits 
these lists as I was deleting it. (Mailing list users in 
particular, I guess, since we can't delete an email once it was 
sent out.) Most of the spam was coming in through the forum, so I 
suppose I was responsible for [not] keeping it out.


Although forum.dlang.org has had a spam check and used reCAPTCHA 
since it was announced, it is only somewhat effective against 
fully-automated bots - it is powerless against humans paid to 
post spamverts on forums web-wide, which is what the current spam 
economy seems to be gravitating towards.


Enter DCaptcha, a question-answer challenge tailored for D 
programmers. Its goals are to challenge posters of 
suspicious-looking content with questions that should be easy to 
answer to D programmers, and impossible for non-technical people 
with no incentive to learn or research stuff (i.e. spammers). 
DCaptcha is already in use on the D wiki (wiki.dlang.org), with 
great success - DCaptcha's debut cut the short-lived explosion in 
wiki spam to zero.


For an idea of what sort of questions DCaptcha asks, you can demo 
it on the following page, so you don't have to clutter the forum 
with test posts:


http://wiki.dlang.org/extensions/DCaptcha/demo.php

Source code:

https://github.com/CyberShadow/dcaptcha

Pull requests for more challenges are welcome. You can find some 
goals for new challenges at the top of dcaptcha.d.


Previous discussion (w.r.t. the D wiki):

http://forum.dlang.org/post/tpflbvlfutjwyvqmo...@forum.dlang.org

Re: German D Community?

[Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d-announce]

It might make sense for the few companies to stir up some
community. Promote D to students and get job candidates in
return. Build a website mostly consisting of a job board and
events calendar. Integrate Twitter, mailing list, etc to keep
low-traffic connections to people.


Wouldn't use it. If you have a question, you'll get more people 
reading and answering it here. If you want to participate in 
language discussion or development you'll have to do it here 
either. Only useful topic in a german subforum would be events in 
german speaking countries. Just mark them with [German] in the 
topic and post them here. If it starts to annoy people, we're big 
enough to justify a german forum.

Re: d-apt source changed!

[Jordi Sayol via Digitalmars-d-announce]

El 02/12/14 a les 07:41, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d-announce ha escrit:
> I do wonder though if d-apt is actually a bad idea as the main resource
> and we should package directly into Debian?

d-apt allows to instant update on dmd releases, not on Debian official 
repositories.

Anyway, packaging dmd directly into Debian is not a problem for me, d-apt will 
adapt to the conjuncture, can live together with an official Debian package, 
and if it should disappear, will do.

Push for it!