Re: [board-discuss] Budget - assignment and coverage
Hi Florian, *, Am 19.09.2012 09:40 schrieb Florian Monfort: Can't the board hire someone who's job would be to develop TDF's sponsoring channels ? If we lack people/money to hire for office tasks, then maybe we should think about having someone to develop our revenues ? In terms of sponsorship I suppose since we are a foundation and not a company. Some sort of salesperson but who's job would be to find contracts with potential partners, not clients. Well I'm not a board member, but this sounds like a good idea. Maybe engaging kind of kick-off officer might be worth thinking about, who helps kick off activities which are considered necessary but were not mounted yet. On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier bitsfr...@documentfoundation.org wrote: [..] Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] Work to be done by TDF officers
Hi Michael, *, Am 19.09.2012 11:32 schrieb Michael Meeks: On Tue, 2012-09-18 at 22:10 +0200, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: I'm not against having paid officers in general, but they should do meta tasks, i.e. rather looking for people doing necessary work - for example by poking sponsors to provide manpower than doing the work themselves. I'm not sure this model generally works so well :-) Sponsors are not lacking tasks of their own and tend to value the ability to direct their own resources: that's why they pay them. Having said that I think you capture something really important: If we contract anyone it is critical to ensure that they are someone who works well with, and is a respected part of the community. Currently we have plenty of people full-time on the code who (I hope) work in that capacity: they do some of the less sexy work to allow volunteers to do the bits they love best, they help mentor people and empower them and so on - presumably that pattern can work elsewhere too ? Maybe I was not clear: I talk of what *TDF* pays for. I'm happy community work having done by paid people, paid by external resources as You describe. For example - we're contracting Tollef currently to do some bugzilla administration around freedesktop: he's the existing sysadmin in that space, is widely respected and is doing a great job: my hope is that that is not too controversial a pattern :-) Who is we? SuSE, TDF? Aside from that, we have a ton of un-met administrative needs that go far beyond system administration: you point out one: fund-raising, there is a lot more detail around the board that requires significant investments of time to get right - and these tend to fall through the cracks. Couldn't agree more! The boards intention though is to contract an *infrastructure* officer. Btw.: wasn't me pointing out the fund-raising issue ;o)). Anyhow - it's great to hear about the good work you're doing in the admin team, that sounds really encouraging, and is much appreciated. Thanks for the flowers! Generously waving the honey spoon is a nice gesture ;o)) regards Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] [DRAFT] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board
Hi Thorsten, *, Am 17.09.2012 18:06 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: [..] A thing of note is §8 - the board intends to hire or contract someone to operate infrastructure on a daily basis, acknowledging the extraordinary importance TDF's virtual presence has for our collective needs. I've some thoughts to throw in. This touches several topics which I will handle within several mails: - Current state and needs of the admin team - Work to be done by TDF officers - strategy - Budget - assignment and coverage Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[board-discuss] Current state and needs of the admin team (was[DRAFT] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board)
Hi All, As the infrastructure team by design is working in the background[1] I'll pass some information for the public. [1] We're proud if nobody notes our work! ;o)) I'll try to keep it short.. Am 18.09.2012 19:56 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: Am 17.09.2012 18:06 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: [..] A thing of note is §8 - the board intends to hire or contract someone to operate infrastructure on a daily basis, acknowledging the extraordinary importance TDF's virtual presence has for our collective needs. I've some thoughts to throw in. This touches several topics which I will handle within several mails: - Current state and needs of the admin team Citing §8: Officers §8. Systems and Administrative Officer 1. The board will contract, or alternatively hire if more economical/practical, resources for professional, secure, and timely maintenance of TDF's central IT infrastructure. The board acknowledges that TDF's virtual presence and web pages are one of its most valuable assets, and thus need attention beyond what can reasonably be expected from pure volunteer work. ++ I can't see where the current admin team - plain volunteer based - did not cover the above mentioned requirements. Until now all services were available with reasonable uptime and quality. Please correct me in case I'm wrong. We're constantly working to improve our team and it's work apart from keeping all services running. Two main tasks we work on for the moment: 1. Rebuild our systems to make involvement of new admins more smooth: we regularly get offers from high skilled admins to help us doing administrative tasks. One of those - Alin - is already active ;o)) So it's not a question of manpower to grow our team, but a question to adapt our systems to integrate new admins step by step. Some work to do on that, some work already done. 2. Getting rid of single points of failure for both: our technical infrastructure and our personal one. We are underway achieving this some work to do, some already done. ;o)) I don't see, how an Officer can really help with regard to §8. The Problem mentioned there doesn't exist from my point of view. Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[board-discuss] Work to be done by TDF officers (was: [DRAFT] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board)
Hi all, again trying to keep it short.. Am 18.09.2012 19:56 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: Am 17.09.2012 18:06 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: [..] A thing of note is §8 - the board intends to hire or contract someone to operate infrastructure on a daily basis, acknowledging the extraordinary importance TDF's virtual presence has for our collective needs. I've some thoughts to throw in. This touches several topics which I will handle within several mails: - Work to be done by TDF officers - strategy If we pay an officer for doing typical community tasks some questions arise: How is his work rated compared to the same or similar work of a volunteer? If it's preferred against volunteers work, have we then to hire more and more professionals which do better work than volunteers? If the volonteers work is preferred, what is the professional paid for? I cannot imagine this model beeing fruitful for a healthy community. I'm not against having paid officers in general, but they should do meta tasks, i.e. rather looking for people doing necessary work - for example by poking sponsors to provide manpower than doing the work themselves. Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[board-discuss] Budget - assignment and coverage (was: [DRAFT] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board)
Hi all, again trying to keep it short.. Am 18.09.2012 19:56 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: Am 17.09.2012 18:06 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: [..] A thing of note is §8 - the board intends to hire or contract someone to operate infrastructure on a daily basis, acknowledging the extraordinary importance TDF's virtual presence has for our collective needs. I've some thoughts to throw in. This touches several topics which I will handle within several mails: - Budget - assignment and coverage I read the last budget report http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.steering-discuss/2662 How much money would a hired officer cost? How much money would remain for travel refund for community members visiting the conference. We from admin team had several meetings, which fosters the collaboration spirit quite well :o)). I note a heavy domination of paid tech people within our community. There is a huge lack of people in the non technical part of the community work. If we ever pay people, we should consider doing so for work in any of the non tech areas. Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [tdf-discuss] Mail Merge to Email in Writer
Hi Gordon, *, On 13/04/2012 12:46, Marc-André Laverdière wrote: One of the concerns I have, though, is in terms of usability... would asking the default mail client to handle thousands of emails make the client freeze? Would it be automated nicely, so that the user doesn't have to click on 'send' until their fingers fall off? Or what about users doing their email via web account only? I don't have the answer to those questions... I am just giving my two cents. I don't think that's going to be a problem - anyone who is sending that sort of bulk email is going to be using a commercial bulk email program That sounds as if You are an expert on how to remote control an arbitrary mail client. Is there a standardized api for that? To solve Your problem of having records: how about putting yourself into BCC? This is what basically does your mail client for the local copy. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Conference Management System
Hi Andreas, *, first excuse me for crossposting, but I want to get more volunteers aware of this topic and involved in it. Please don't ask for apology doing a mistake - just do better ;o)). If You think, exactly the same information is required on two lists, then send two identical mails, but avoid having two recipients in one, i.e. resend the mail to the second list in question. This way the threads on each list stay clean instead of beeing incompletely mixed through people spitting out reply to all on every listmail reply. The follow up discussion should be on the website mailing list. To achive this I consider it a better solution to send a heads up mail to this list, containing the link to the archived initial mail - ideally containing one descriptive sentence obout the subject. Thus it's You who provide the means to have your intention fullfilled. ;o)) Both ways in summary save lots of valuable volonteer's time, which can be contributed in a more effective way. [..] create and use a conference management tool for all the work around the conference. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hi Pedro, *, Am 22.01.2012 13:43 schrieb Pedro: [..] I just think it that it doesn't make sense to change things that users rely on just because you can. +1 Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Florian, *, Am 12.12.2011 14:41 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Friedrich Strohmaier wrote on 2011-12-11 15:22: So well, I've some questions: - What makes the website list more suitable for this test than this one? - What are the criteria making this test successful or fail? nothing, .. means leave me alone? but we have been discussing for weeks now, No discussion - vaporizing comments instead, You did not care nor comment a single one. and I would like to test out the impact of reply-to mangling. Switch off reply-to mangling? Regarding testing out the impact of that change: I'll try once more: If You want to know the impact of your house burning down, there are two possibilities: - I tell you the impact of burning down your house - I show you the impact of burning down your house If I tell you the impact of burning down your house you can imagine. If I show you the impact of burning down your house you can see. Same thing about knowing the impact of changing the behaviour of the mailinglists. As You play with the motivation of volunteers, how do you evaluate the result of test out the impact? Do you count the corpses i.e. the lost volunteers? The way You want to go, is one where you can't win. The best case is, no damage is visible, which does not mean it doesn't happen. All other cases make things go worse. Btw. I still don't know about Your motivation on this. You didn't tell a single word about. If I think of games affecting volunteer's motivation I think of games I can win only and the worst case is, that things don't change. But this is my personal preference. From what I read, Your's appear to be different. I tried to describe my vision on how to do - but I dropped hope to get it recognized by You. My offer is still valid, for what it is worth however. Really, it's been now eight weeks (!) that has been in the queue at least, If this eight weeks were ones delaying a mistake they were good ones. so... let's do it and try it out. So go ahead! Enjoy the impact You might cause. Enjoy counting corpses. Gruß/regards Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Florian, *, Am 09.12.2011 12:07 schrieb Florian Effenberger: I like your idea to use the website list however, since people there are usually much experienced in using technology and e-mail. So, what do others think about that? Disabling reply-to mangling (after announcement) on the website list for a while and see the results? So well, I've some questions: - What makes the website list more suitable for this test than this one? - What are the criteria making this test successful or fail? Gruß/regards Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Michael, *, Am 06.12.2011 09:40 schrieb Michael Meeks: [..] Anyways, which lists would you like to start trying it on? The one I'd like to interact with from time to time don't is the website list :-) but I'd expect the same noise there ... ^[1] IMHO that causes lots of problem. I see myself purging files from the archive because people did not know they were posting in public. Grief, does anyone provide an embarrassing mail removal service ? if ^[1] so, I'd like to use it ;-) [1] I personally don't consider this way of estimating other contributors contributions, one forwoarding a successful and happy community.. [..] And of course; I'm a proponent of not mangling Reply-To: on lists, not to annoy people :-), but because I truly believe it gives the very best interaction experience for clueful developers arriving from the outside and dipping their toes in. remember: I'm as well. And all noise I produce about it targets to make this change a success ;o)) The good idea of testing it out somewhere comes from the sysadmin team, That's only partially true. In fact it was Florian coming from nowhere doing a proposal[2], while stating at any opportunity this beeing a bad idea(for example[4]). This makes me perceive he's not very interested this change beeing a successful one. [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.moderators/220 [4] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.moderators/220/focus=254 It was me bringing this to public[3], because I'm really concerned, even starting a test without *broad support* doing damage. Settling broad support goes along with setting up a target, reasonable and interesting to aim to, collecting supporters, which catch and cure the trapped and thus keep them beeing contributors. For this task, we have to start *where we are now* instead of *where it was nice to be*, regardless how well or not so well we prepared this decision in the past (by introducing this setting). [3] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/7433 Everything apart, for me is kind of hidden or open vote with a looser party and a winner party. I don't consider this a good way to go for a community like ours. To say it short: We've to determine the nail we all want to hit. If we don't so, we'll continue to hit thumbs. :o)) and it seems we're iterating towards a consensus that the discuss list is perhaps not the best place to start before any change took place ;-) Well I don`t see what this list makes less suitable for that test than any other (including website). Questions about test criteria as answer on Florian's Mail: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/7433/focus=7514 HTH, .. not much regarding my concerns of a failure of this test. Gruß/regards Gruß/regards Gruß/regards Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Regina, *, Am 30.11.2011 16:53 schrieb Regina Henschel: Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: [..] No. This can happen if accidently a poster uses reply to all instead of reply-to-list, without trimming the posters address. I use Seamonkey and there I see nothing like reply-to-list, there is only (1)Antwort auf dieses Nachricht and (2)Antwort an Absender and alle Empfänger. (1) generates a mail to reply-to if set and to from in the other cases. (2) generates a mail to reply-to if set and CC from and other CCs, or if reply-to is not set to from and CC other CCs. So how to reply-to-list? If I recall well, there was an addon - at least for thunderbird in early days. But couldn't find somesuch during a quick search. As I don't use Seamonkey, I don't know if and where this funktion exists. The oldstyle Netscape/Thunderbird way was to use reply-to-all and trim the posters address. Maybe someone else can help. By the way: Adding information like that, was one part of my intention to improve the communication style info. not that serious Given $my_cool_software=Thunderbird; With $my_cool_software reply-to-list is offered for each mail containing a list-post -header so Your problem is solved if You just use $my_cool_software. /not that serious ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Florian, *, Am 30.11.2011 09:31 schrieb Florian Effenberger: NoOp wrote on 2011-11-30 05:02: [..] Better yet, try it on the dev list as this seems to be where the request is originating from. That change is already in effect on the dev list, but I think it's not comparable to other lists at LibO. :) Depends, *what* You compare. Regarding traffic it's one of the most active lists - yes: not comparable to any tdf list. Information is provided continuously in a very (high volume) reader friendly fashion - yes: not comparable to any tdf list. But in my eyes that's not the question. The question is, where to go regarding communication style. reply-to mangling hereby is *one* thing to look at. Gruß/regards Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi NoOp, *, Am 30.11.2011 04:50 schrieb NoOp: On 11/28/2011 08:23 AM, Michael Meeks wrote: [..] * make it easy for new and peripherally involved users to get replies to their casual E-mails without doing a long list of operations. Where by a long list of operations, I mean, that in order to get a reply to your mail/question, first you need to: [.. trimmed the referenced paragraph ..] You've obviously never spent time on the OOo user discuss lists... [.. bad experience with above use case ..] I subscribe to over 80 lists (via gmane.org) Using a nntp-client You are not affected by the change.. and respond regularly to 10-15 daily. Were I required to adjust my standard 'Reply' to specifically reply to the list rather than the individual poster I'd have to make major modifications to my client (SeaMonkey). Would You consider to do that change if You knew making life easier for *many* community co-members by doing so? Anyways - You don't have to ;o)) I view and respond to a list, not to individual posters. There are so many pro and cons regarding that, how about having it most easy *for both sides* to follow their believing? Further, the changes that you are requesting (if I understand them correctly) You probably don't.. The change in question only concerns reverting the setting of the reply-to: $list header added by the mailinglist software to each message sent. would mean that I'd then have an additional, direct email in my inbox from each list poster when I've specifically chosen to view respond via an nntp source (gmane.org) rather than list email. No. This can happen if accidently a poster uses reply to all instead of reply-to-list, without trimming the posters address. Your request now places the burden on each list user to make changes in order to avoid responding to the list poster and instead reply to the list in general. No. Only those using reply instead of reply-to-list have to change their habits (which admittedly might cause some annoyance during the changing period). [.. general mailinglist access proposal ..] If you wish to reply to each poster individually, then perhaps you can modify Evolution 3.0.2 to conform to Reply and 'Reply All' to suit your requirements. Thats the reason the change will be done: Make Your mail software work how it's intended to work, regardless which one. -1 Wrong assumption? Gruß/regards Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] overall communication guidelines and reply-to mangling
Hi Michael, *, thanks for describing a scenario, where reply-to mangling hurts.. Am 28.11.2011 17:23 schrieb Michael Meeks: [..] * make it easy for established list users to avoid having to think whom they want to reply to, and needing to press ctrl-shift-r vs. ctrl-r (or whatever) or * make it easy for new and peripherally involved users to get replies to their casual E-mails without doing a long list of operations. or boil it down to: keep it simple (KISS). That does not necessarily mean: serve each one's habits (which is known *not* to be a simple thing ;o)) ). The most simple thing is to offer email as the plain information medium and let the sender and recipient handle the rest. Since starting this thread my approach is to improve the way to give advice, how to do so in a convenient fashion. reply-to is intended a means for the sender to decide where she wants the answer to be sent. To set it from a central place requires asking *every* member for approval to not disregard the posters freedom of choice to do so. The clean solution for a mailing list then was to provide the choice for each poster, whether she wants reply-to: $list set for the mails sent to her. We don't have this possibility for now, but maybe we have some day. (well, then the question rises whether it continues to be simple) ;o)). This topic (is|was) causing discussions over discussions because people try to rise weigth of their annoyance's degree by calling numbers or argueing about in general or logical expected behaviour. My assumption is: it was introduced, because it's a cheap cheat for the administrator to get rid of grief, kind of this is not a behaviour I'm used to whatever this was wrapped in. The question now is how to handle that situation. Should we consider to go the KISS way - not only with this issue but rather with other decisions within the project as well? And again: anyone interested in joining to improve the source of advice? Gruß/regards Friedrich -- Friedrich Strohmaier - Admin team - The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] renaming this list
Hi Florian, *, Am 26.10.2011 15:32 schrieb Florian Effenberger: since the Steering Committee will soon cease its existence, and the newly elected BoD will be officially in charge, I would like to rename this list. My proposal would either be: 1. core-discuss@tdf 2. board-discuss@tdf 3. bod-discuss bod has kind of brand at least in my perception and is less generic than board. I am in favor of #2. Thoughts? # 3 :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi NoOp, *, I appreciate Your initiative.. Am 08.09.2011 02:16 schrieb NoOp: For those that continue to insist on top posting on the LO lists: please consider bottom posting with interspersed replies. Those who insist, won't consider. I think it's a good Idea to provide those with kind of guidance or recommendation who don`t know better, and want to express their respect to the attention the audience invests in their request. [..] posting. However at the bottom of each mail on this list is a link to: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette That page doesn't help much either, You ore someone else are warmly invited to change this. I hacked it together after nobody wanted to volunteer, when I setup that footer entries. So doing the footer thing brought me more work which could have been done from someone else with no special permissions and skills. It *intionally* is a wiki site. ;o)) [..] Eventually I hope that LO will actually include a link to general posting guidelines on the http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ page with complete posting guidelines. +1 on that Even if the final consensus is to only top post... at least will help with consistancy on this (users), and the other LO lists. I think this is not a matter of conensus but more kind of recommendation, how to save the readers effort to catch the message and use the time saved to give useful comments. ;o)) Added Note: I'd originally sent this to the users list as IMO that is where the guidelines are needed most. definitly. So there may be some cross posting in replies. No genuine crossposting so at least consistent threads per mailing list. The better lazy way :o)) Regarding the learn to quote and similar posting guidelines of that kind: They are collected experience of efficient mail/newsgroup communication over a long time - nothing more and nothing less. Long stories could be told about this topic - I try to make it short: As one reading a high number of mails a day and one having project experience (since 2003 OOo membership included) enabling me to give answers at many places, I mostly skip mails which show me the poster doesn't worry about my time and effort reading his post. So I rise my daily range about 50 mails, reading and responding the ones of those writers which show respect to my effort. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] [OT] Pasta Recipes
Hi Italo, *, Am 05.09.2011 10:23 schrieb Italo Vignoli: Recipes of pasta hacked in Munich are now online: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest2011#Pasta_Recipes Can confirm: The results kick(ed) off even non code hackers :o)) Thanks for Your great hack! Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Copyleft vs. more permissive (was: Proposal to join Apache OpenOffice)
Hi BRM, *, BRM schrieb: From: plino pedl...@gmail.com [..] Even the GPL does not provide that right. If a company wanted it could take a GPL product, make whatever changes it wanted, and distribute it internally to itself without ever contributing back to the community as a whole. True. Anyone using it for his own can do so. Likewise, it could also distribute that same project to its customers, making the source available to them and them alone. True, they even can demand a fee for it. The community will may never see any changes from them; yet that is perfectly valid under all Open Source licenses - even the GPL. Not true. If one of those customers goes ahead and publishes the source code, that company can't forbid. This is covered by the GPL. That means: If IBM put copyleft code (LGPL/GPL) in symphony then I could by a copy, require the source code and publish it. Nothing forces people to work with the community. No license can do that. right, but Your example lacks the point I told. So please do yourself a favor and put that notion - the myth - aside. 50% myth remaining ;o)). [..] they only have to provide the source (in that case) to the end-users _upon request_ for up to 3 years for each version they release from the time they make the sale. (See the GPL license.) Which is enough time to get it, even if donations have to be collected ;o)) Under the Apache license any company can take your code, fix it and say: Hey, this function in the open source version doesn't work. I just spend a day fixing it (instead of months to write it from scratch). Why don't you buy mine which works? They can do that under the GPL too. But we can get it back then. Thats a notable difference ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] OCA vs. ICLA: two names - one thing? (was: Triple licensing?)
Hi Greg, *, I pull this in a new thread, as it is basic for understanding the difference between OCA and ICLA. Greg Stein schrieb: [..] Let's also not forget that neither TDF nor the ASF require copyright assignment. The copyright remains with the contributor. Same thing with OCA. You don't/didn't sell your copy right instead it was shared. Thus, the patch can be offered to the TDF under its suggested LGPLv3/MPL combination, and offered separately to the ASF under an ALv2 license(*). I don't see the basical difference between OCA and ICLA here. Of course I see the difference between Oracle as a commercial company and Apache Software Foundation as a charity. :o)) [..] (*) strictly speaking, you do not offer code to the ASF under any specific license. your ICLA grants the ASF a right to release your code under a license of its choosing. which is basically the same Oracle can do with contributions granted under terms of OCA. By the way: If this topic already was discussed elsewhere I appreciate an archive link. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] OCA vs. ICLA: two names - one thing?
Hi Greg, *, sorry, forgot to post links.. Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: I pull this in a new thread, as it is basic for understanding the difference between OCA and ICLA. Greg Stein schrieb: [..] Let's also not forget that neither TDF nor the ASF require copyright assignment. The copyright remains with the contributor. Same thing with OCA. You don't/didn't sell your copy right instead it was shared. see here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Joint_Copyright_Assignment http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Oracle_Contributor_Agreement http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-licensing.html#usinglicenses http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/oca.pdf [..] sorry for avoidable noise.. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Libreoffice] Proposal to join Apache OpenOffice
Hi Allen, *, Allen Pulsifer schrieb: On that point, let me be clear: There are millions of potential users for OOo, LO, and open document formats. Many of those potential users work in companies, government agencies and other organizations that routinely trust Microsoft, Oracle, IBM and other large corporations to meet their IT needs. Getting in a public spat with any of those companies does not help the project in the least, it only hurts it. End users do not care about who's right, who's wrong, who's been slighted, who is more pure, etc. They just care about products and technologies that are going to meet their needs. Well, for a healthy community not *only* happy end users are an essetial ingredient as aren't *only* happy coders. If it isn't possible to achive having all parts of the community happy and that way satisfying a significant range of end users (which I also count as part of it) then we definitly should rethink the questions: who are we? Where do we go? For many users, the best thing OOo had going for it was that it was backed by Sun and there was a commercial version users they could turn to if they needed support, etc. Did You ask some of them about the degree of happyness with the results. I'd be interested to read positive feedback regarding this (preferably big numbers!). Now that Oracle has pulled out, that is gone and TdF cannot replace it. Regardless of individual feelings, the best the TdF and its members could do at this point would be to put on a smiling face, magnanimously congratulate the ASF for joining the community, and at least make it look like they were working closely with IBM to bring the best possible open document technologies to the world. If most or almost all of the LO contributors joined the Apache OpenOffice project, if only to lend moral support and help heal the rift, that would only be good for LO and the TdF. The best time to do that is now. Simply don't agree - as of having bad *experience* regarding a big company beeing bad balanced power community member. I notice Your claims beeing questions of faith packed as facts and put mine at the opposite side. So 1:1 ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Interesting
Hi Italo, *, thanks for the pointers. Italo Vignoli schrieb: This - sorry - is hot air: Brian Proffitt http://www.itworld.com/software/172393/plea-save-openofficeorg-apache This one saves me much time writing my summary after digging the incubator mails: mentioning http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=2567 [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Oracle contributes OOo Code to Apache Software Foundation'sIncubator
Hi Augustine, *, Augustine Souza schrieb: On 6/3/11, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: ... [.. nonsense ..] Nonsense. [.. nonsense ..] More nonsense. Thanks :o)) SCNR Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] common effort: creating replacement for Oracle Report Builder
Hi all, started a thread on projects mailinglist [libreoffice-projects] common effort: creating replacement for Oracle Report Builder http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.projects/192 Quote: = I examined the capabilities of writer and found many of the requirements for report generation already present there. So I'd propose to have a look by all interested on this topic, whether it is feasible to create a report generating tool based on writer (or calc?) extention(s) or template(s). /Quote == Anyone interested in this task or topic might subscribe the projects mailinglist[1] or discuss here. [1] projects+h...@libreoffice.org sends You more information about that. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: On 05/24/2011 11:43 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote: 2011/5/25 NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net : Is there one? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ doesn't show or refer to one. The german wiki page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/de has some additions and links for that. Maybe somebody should translate that to the english page. I suppose. But that page is on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ so even if translated and cleaned up wouldn't suffice. But if done it wasn't that difficult to link to? The place for such a FAQ should be on http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ and apply to all locales. In my opinion the place of such a FAQ should be at a place easy to find and to point at.. And then once finalised/finalized should be posted in each mail list on a monthly basis so that list users are aware of etiquette/action/cooperation on the lists. This used to be common practice for mail lists in the past helped resolve unnecessary posts regarding posting styles[1], etc. The problem - as seen also in this thread[1] - is that people don't mind to read just for reading and thus these pointers don't help much. Instead they - or at least some - do if pointed there in case of ineffective communication style. [1] As You might have noticed, about 8 weeks ago I added a new line at the footer of each english language mailing list: Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette So it's easy for each mailing list member to point to suitable information if needed. No research in bookmarks or web. Just look (and point as I do here) at the footer of the mail. I choose to create that wikipage because no one was able or willing to show me a appropriate place to link to. The wikipage makes it easy for everyone to put in suitable text or links to complete information and makes it easy to link from anywhere to recent information as well. Please forgive me the poor content. Feel free to rise information and cultural level. ;o)) It's pretty hard to condem someone for top-posting, going way of topic, discussing religion, et al if there isn't a FAQ or some form of common guideline for user behaviour in the mail lists. Right - therefore my effort. [..] That said, here is a question; how can a common user be expected to possibly find http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ to begin with? Answer: Just point at the end of the mail and put the information You'd expect at that target - done. So: Good news. :o)) I see no link on http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ do you? maybe soon?? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style .. missing up to now - coming soon?? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Comparison of LO and OO downloads for a non-English language
Hi Henri, *, M Henri Day schrieb: 2011/5/28 Stefan Weigel stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org Am 28.05.2011 19:44, schrieb M Henri Day: If the respective helppacks and langpacks can be included in stable versions of OO for non-English languages, I fail to understand why the same thing cannot be done for LO versions. But perhaps I am missing something here ?... As far as I know, it´s an issue of data volume on the download servers. Stefan Which, no doubt, is an question of money. If I got it right it's more a matter of time. The builds are created on the developers machines and then uploaded for distribution. As well building all that packages containing the base package again and again and further upload them, slow down the release process heavily. Thanks, Stefan, that explains it. Sometimes liberty is not that easy to seize !... On our DVD-Image we have modified the procedure for deb installation (DVD is repo) and as well the windows installation. Maybe this is the way to go. Would You like to setup a swedish DVD-Image? The environment is prepaired and as well a german version You could copy and translate ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] RC2 - no 3.4.0.x tag in help - about libreoffice
Hi all, installing LibO 3.4.0RC2 I noticed there is no tag describing the release version. So LibO 3.3.2 shows up: LibreOffice 3.3.2 OOO330m19 (Build:202) tag libreoffice-3.3.2.2 LibO 3.4.0RC2 shows: LibreOffice 3.4.0 OOO340m1 (Build:12) which makes it more hard for the support people to define the environment while giving advice or hunting bugs. deb packages on Kubuntu 7.10 32bit. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient?
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: A link would not show the behaviour; Thanks for your estimation. My intention was rather to have easy access to information of that list and to an example where Your answer really worked. As I spend enough time investigating Your problem http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.test I hoped to save the time of searching myself.. would be better to subscribe to gnuplot mailing list digest mode. A link where to do so was really great - allthough not helpful *for me* as I don't have gmail running and I don't intend to do so. When the 'reply' function is activated in gmail web-mail interface, the mail message format is retained. As told, I would like to see a succesful example of an answer sent by You if You make possible to provide a link. By the way: As workaround to send proper answers is ordering the desired mail sending a mail to: discuss+ge...@documentfoundation.org where N is the number of that mail provided with the digest. Additionally You're hereby invited to subscribe to test+subscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.org where we try to solve Your problem. We need your experience with digest handling and your testing skills. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient? (was: Paid Developers)
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, e-letter inp...@gmail.com wrote: [..] When can someone improve mailing list behaviour with web mail clients like gmail??? [..] The problem is that replies to messages cannot be performed directly. This behaviour does not occur in other mailing lists, e.g. gnuplot. can You give a link to gnuplot list archive, where it worked? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Any wikipedia members/contributors here?
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: [..] However, before updating the page, be aware of: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/4599 [ODF format validity] (read the entire thread - including the 'Continue reading' bits) Or, try to look up the thread on: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ (good luck with that) Instead of the latter You can click lefthand Options ... Classic Gmane web interface ... which leads here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/4599/focus=4639 This is more convenient to follow the thread - and let You answer to the list if You want. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Digestmails answers with quotes not possible?
Hi all, especially those of You receiving mails as digest are requested to report. Some people reported not beeing able getting text of the mail to be quoted in the Editor area. e-letter reported this for gmail, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/5360/focus=5383 I could confirm with recent Thunderbird, but not with fairly aged kmail. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.test/117 Who else has noticed alike? Just try to answer this mail if You receive mails as digest and report. You can report via gmane if it doesn't work out with Your mail client. I suspect base64 encoded content of those mails isn't of taste of some mail clients. Thanks for helping out to narrow down the problem. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient?
Hi Florian, *, Did You read the mails? I'm in first steps to reproduce e-letters problem with answering digest mails. Florian Effenberger schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier wrote on 2011-05-15 15.55: But as long as nobody claims base64 encoded mailcontent beeing improper mail handling, this is buggy behaviour of the client software and should be reported as Bug to the software vendor. hm, seems I miss the point - what's the actual problem? As I read in this thread and in others, answering listmails received in digests cause problems for some mail clients. As I found out Thunderbird is affected and gmail seems as well. I suspect it may be caused by the base64 encoded content of that mails. I described here: http://www.mail-archive.com/test@documentfoundation.org/msg00118.html You cut it from my post. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient? (was: Paid Developers)
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, e-letter inp...@gmail.com wrote: [..] When can someone improve mailing list behaviour with web mail clients like gmail??? Well I did some testing. Might be it's a good Idea to find the reason *before* declaring the mailing list software the culprit ;o)). Look here: http://www.mail-archive.com/test@documentfoundation.org/msg00118.html Sorry, but what do you mean? Obviously the mailinglist has no influence whatsoever how a webmail or regular mailclient behaves. Is this true? Surely different mailing list manager software will function differently? Even for this e-mail digest, the reply function results in deletion of the original message content, apart from the text shown above. This means a text editor has to be used...:( .. Which is the case anyway - even if provided by the mail client software :o)) Sorry, please be more descriptive. That mail (#6131) is this one: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg06225.html http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg06096.html A digest message is received Opening the message shows all of the content After activating the 'reply' function, the reply text box does not contain the original digest message content As written in testmails - Thunderbird also makes trouble regarding this - 4 Year old kmail doesn't. == Bug?? [..] The problem is that replies to messages cannot be performed directly. This behaviour does not occur in other mailing lists, e.g. gnuplot. So might be they provide digest mails in a gmail more digestible manner - i.e. not base64 encoded? But as long as nobody claims base64 encoded mailcontent beeing improper mail handling, this is buggy behaviour of the client software and should be reported as Bug to the software vendor. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] German Foreign Office is dropping only open source software policy
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/227849/open_source_advocates_angry_at_german_govt_decision.html This isn't even about OpenOffice vs LibreOffice... It's about Closed Source vs Open Source right.. TBH I think it was a bad move to change radically if you have experienced and productive users trained on whatever program (regardless of the license). agreed - but I think this wasn't the real reason. Also, if you need professional support you can't just move to Open Source, let alone a Linux distro that was still being developed... I think this can't been estimated without viewing on the political situation. Two Years ago FDP's Guido Westerwelle became boss of the foreign office. The FDP (Free Domocratic Party) is known to serve a special clientele. So shortly after the elections the sales tax for hoteliers was lowered on the food products level (7% instead of 19%). Could it be that it took them 6 years to realize that? No, it was two years to schedule the change after the change. For me no question, who was the gostwriter of the reasoning - there is a big company we know that kind of arguing from.. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Fwd: [Libreoffice] Returned mail: see transcript for details
Hi Rainer, *, Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: Hello, from time to time I get a mail with information that my account has been used for SPAMming. The attached instructions letter.zip have been deleted by my email-provider (I believe with good reasons). Any idea what that might mean and what can be done? That's plain spam using a subject that wants make You think, it's from a machine. *Do* examine the content of the attachment - ideally on Your windows box - to get more information ;o)). Maybe You examine it's header to get the IP of the sender and compare with the one of a genuine list mail. Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Libreoffice] Returned mail: see transcript for details [.. Spam ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Sponsored Issues
Hi Samuel, *, Samuel M schrieb: Thanks, shall I write to this list or to steering-discuss? This list is the right place for that. - Ursprüngliche Message - Von: Rainer Bielefeld libreoff...@bielefeldundbuss.de Samuel M schrieb: [.. TOFU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting ..] [...] Even more challenging is if you can donate money for a specific issue. interesting Idea, but too complex to be discussed here in thi thread. I recommend that you open a separate thread that might pique interest of steering committee. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] New technical home for http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/?? (was: Re: Forums - A Different Question)
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: On 04/30/2011 01:56 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Harold Fuchs wrote: Has Oracle given permission for TDF to use its forum, or doesn't TDF need such permission? Does TDF *want* to use an Oracle resource? I think Drew has already explained this on multiple mailing lists, anyway: the forums at http://user.services.openoffice.org/ are run by community members and not by Oracle, they explicitly include LibreOffice among the supported software (see page header), sounds great.. they can be used with no need for permissions from Oracle, and they are probably the best place where LibreOffice users can get support if they don't like mailing lists. [..] Sorry, but I'd have to disagree... http://openoffice.org/terms_of_use The resources are owned and operated by Oracle. might be it's worth thinking to offer that resource a new (technical) home free of fear regarding continuation of the infrastucture?? ;o)) [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi Pieter, *, Pieter E. Zanstra schrieb: From: e-letter [mailto:inp...@gmail.com] What's wrong with reading mailing list messages in digest mode and going to the searchable archive as and when appropriate. Because people never keep focus in email, texting and twitter. Those are the worst tools to support a group process. This 25 years old technology should have long been abandoned in favour of more knowledge based tools for a collaboration. Statements as above hit the thumb instead of the nail - causing the corresponding (re)sentiments. :o)) Having watched this space for a month or so, I am about to sign off. I can't hold You. Maybe it's to hard for some people here to read single opinions as opinions instead of facts and to stand opinions different from the own ones. Apparently live is like that.. Have a nice time. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: Charles-H. Schulz wrote: But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. Why aren't the users of LibreOffice being told about them? Whom do You accuse here? www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ is the Help page. Let's see what it says: For user support, we have: * Mailing lists: the user support mailing list address is our main channel for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem [...]index. * IRC channels: come chat with us live on IRC at freenode.net [...] * FAQs: we are compiling a list of frequently-asked questions. [...] * Documentation: Check our documentation download page [...] * System requirements: Read the system requirements [...] * Installation instructions: [...] * Accessibility information: Read these accessibility tips [...] That's it! The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. It's not anywhere on the page! What did You *act* to get it there? Why haven't you approached that forum's management to discuss integration with LibreOffice (including branding and design)? Whom do You ask? This question is one You should ask yourself: Why haven't *You* approached to do so? What is this if not a sign of extreme disregard for the wants and needs of ordinary people using the software, most of whom are uncomfortable with, or resistant to, using IRC or mailing lists? indeed! *You* did notice that issue and what was *Your* action? Again: whom do You accuse? Who should act, if not You? I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. An Open Source Software community is a place to *act* rather than complain. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: [..] Anyway, I'm glad that people are responding. I guess it proves the adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease Tell you what, give me the keys to that page and I'll fix it for ya. Do You have an account on the CMS? If not, someone might have the link at hand for registering. Alternatively, I'll see if I can grab the HTML for editing and then I'll whip up a proposal for you guys to vote on. Deal? I'd assume there is no problem to get an author's account. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Clever quoting (was: LO OO are not the only competitors of MSOffice... LO could also make a simple office suite that runs in Android iOS)
Hi Jaime, *, Jaime R. Garza schrieb: On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:53, Valter Mura valterm...@gmail.com wrote: [.. complete mail block qouted ..] About the top quote, it this how it's supposed to be? Isn't it better the other way? At least for me it is. In short: Put comments inline the quoted text below the line they refer to, seperated by one empty line. Delete paragraphs You do not refer to. Posting guidelines link to be found at the footer of every mail. OK - only one link (learn2quote) present in the wikipage at the moment. http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html In particular: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.1, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 [..] Hope this helps :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: How to pronounce the name (again, sorry)
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: Can we please stop with all of this nonsense about how to pronounce the name? Your approach is valid, it's however strongly off-topic in this list. You might post it at r...@documentfoundation.org where it is highly appreciated! Subscribe by issuing a mail to rant+subscr...@documentfoundation.org get more info by issuing a mail to rant+h...@documentfoundation.org You can post without subscription, please consider some delay due to moderating Your post then. :o)) Gruß -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi Henri, *, M Henri Day schrieb: 2011/4/1 Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:26 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/1 dionysien jean-francois.bour...@univ-paris8.fr [..] The component words of LibreOffice, though quite common international words, have already diverging pronounciations wordwide. :o)) [..] As the same time, the concerns of posters who wonder how it can be pronounced in their respective languages should not be ignored. Exactly what made me step in. [..] Friedrich's German-lnguage version is a good example nitpick Oh, it is not German language :-) it is the french/english version spoken by a German/nitpick I just wanted to give a quick answer on a simple question. The file at least gives an idea of what was in the minds creating the name. Thanks for your nitpicking, Christian ; were I to return the favour I should point out that Friedrich's file was an example of a German-language pronunciation of a French word followed by an English one. In any event, as I hope I made clear in my previous posting, I feel that more of the same (*mutatis mutandi*, of course) would be helpful to those in doubt as to how to the term might be pronounced in their respective languages +1 I rethink my proposal for a recommended version as long as we don't leave alone those in doubt. *Gruß* ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi all, Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: [..] My proposal: lets collect proposals for soundfiles pronouncing LibreOffice and have a simple voting for the one we point to, if people ask. This can be Files created by community members or some found in the internet. The first may be preferable due to license issues. Here You can hear me saying LibreOffice: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/e/e2/Libreoffice_ger-tongue_fs.mp3 ;o)) [..] more proposals? comments? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi all, there were several requests regarding the correct pronunciation of LibreOffice. The name LibreOffice was choosen by minds mainly from roman/german language area and of course there are no relevant pronunciation issues for those. But there are sometimes heavy ones for minds of other language areas. Some people - mainly from the first category - propose to pronounce deliberately not aware there are severe problems to even catch the idea how to do so. So I start this thread in the hope to get a situation satisfying a wide range of community members. ;o)) My proposal: lets collect proposals for soundfiles pronouncing LibreOffice and have a simple voting for the one we point to, if people ask. This can be Files created by community members or some found in the internet. The first may be preferable due to license issues. This one I estimate quite close on how it appears to the minds of the founders (Don't mind orthography or braindead translation): http://translate.google.com/#de|de|LiebreOffice more proposals? comments? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] How to pronounce the name (again, sorry)
Hi Stefan, Samphan, *, Stefan Weigel schrieb: Am 27.03.2011 08:22, schrieb Samphan Raruenrom: I found this page http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/how-do-you-prono unce-libreoffice/ that link to Google translate to provide the (official?) pronouncement. I don´t think, that this is official in sense of approved by TDF or the TDF community. http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|LibreOffice This sounds odd to me, personally. to me as well.. The following sounds almost like the one I am used to: http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|LiebreOffice my favorite: http://translate.google.com/#fr|de|LiebreOffice which I assume is most close to the intended marriage between the french libre and the english office in my opinion. I'm quite surprised with it. I thought it is ˈlɪbə as in liberty orlbr as in http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vers+libre So actually it is ˈliːbreɪ as in http://es.thefreedictionary.com/libre , right? Yes, I would agree. Quite close I think. It would be nice if someone could provide an official pronouncement sound file on the LibreOffice website (and phonetic, for the literate). I think this is kind of good Idea.. I am not sure, if there is really a need for an official pronunciation. This is a free project. Every participant is free to pronounce it the way she/he likes. For me, there is nothing wrong with different pronunciation by people with different native tongue. IMO, http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/how-do-you-pronounce-libreoffice/ should be changed, in order to express that ther is no wrong or right. I'd rather think of a *proposal* file which has been approved by simple voting on this list. I agree there should not be any official pressure of pronunciaton, but I think it couldn't harm to have a proposal sound file for those who look for advice or - in this case - look for a way writing LibreOffice in their native language at all. I think overruling things and help to find a consensus to understand each other must not be mistaken. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Reducing donation ads
Hi Olivier, @ll, Olivier C schrieb: On Sat, 2011-03-12 at 14:48 +0100, Florian Effenberger wrote: this topic was raised on the website list, and my gut feeling says it would be a good idea to show our support. What do you think? [..] Please focus on the Document Foundation. TDF neither has the authority or ability to save lives or efficiently fund relief for Japan. I also second this. Yes, it's hard to see people needing help and can't do anything. But on the other hand I can't see how we from TDF could help effectively. Money in a country like Japan isn't the bottleneck which makes help failing. So my vote: don't stop or decrease efforts of fundraising. Setup a solidarity note on a prominent place instead. I think it's this, we all feel deeply. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-11 9:52 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Charles Marcus schrieb: So change the footer to something like: Unsubscribe: E-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org List Help: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** minor change of line 2: I'd like rather: List Help: visit http://nice-url.libreoffice.org Fine with me... Uff! :o)) If some day someone provides me with http://nice-url.libreoffice.org I'll go and change footers as avised since january. I'm confused... you're ok with making the change, but won't do so until the list help is converted from the *current* email format to a web page? That doesn't make sense - these are two separate issues... if you can make the change, please do so, then once a web page help is created, you can change line 2 to the web link... You're right 2 seperate things. But for me: 2 times start action, which I don't like. It's nearly double work. My offer is to sit down and do the work *once* if all is fine. There is a big agenda waiting. You might remember: We're working on setting up the DVD environment. Of course, each list should have the correct unsub link in its footer. like it's already the case with the this-list+help and is also the case in the mail sent to this-list+h...@lang.domain.tld That's a link to the *help* email... To unsubscribe from the digest of this list send a message to: [..] /reply note: clickable Link!! That brings up a new *email* message... indeed. I'm talking about a link that, with one click, takes you to a *web* page that simply says something like You have been unsubscribed from this-list - if this was in error, click 'here' to resubscribe. Ah, didn't get that - but I still prefer: click here to confirm! ;o)) This is how many, many unsub links work... Now got it. As Florian wrote: isn't implemented yet. Hey... in fact, many unsub links in the email footer itself takes you to a secure confirmation *web page*, where you can then click the 'Yes, really unsub me now!' button... I like that idea much better now that I think of it... ditto There really is no reasonable, rational argument against adding this one liner to the footer. Your right - it's waiting since weeks ;o)) but I share Christian's concerns, that changing the first line causes as much trouble as it avoids. I have seen no - ZERO - reasonable explanation as to how this causes *more* trouble... please reiterate... O.K.: All subscribers not subscribed for normal mail will get trouble. recall: no universal unsubscribe for whatever subscription available. I'll bet making these three changes will resolve at least half of the problems people have, if not more. Guess: Lost!! ;o)) Not at all... I win this one hands down... With all requirements satisfied - maybe. :o)). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-11 4:16 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: I have seen no - ZERO - reasonable explanation as to how this causes *more* trouble... please reiterate... O.K.: All subscribers not subscribed for normal mail will get trouble. recall: no universal unsubscribe for whatever subscription available. Eh? There are only two, right? Normal and Digest. No, it's three: nomail also. Admittedly the latter one won't cause problems because no one will be nagged by unwanted mails. And each list will have its own unsubscribe link... So, for the normal list: Unsubscribe: E-mail to list+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org and for the digest: Unsubscribe: E-mail to list-digest+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org I don't see the problem... Eeach mail of the digest contains the normal unsubscribe link which, if read at all, causes confusion. There could be the valid one at the end of each digest - only read by those who won't have/make troubles at all. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 03/09/2011 02:07 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: 1. Moderation via e-mail is not comfortable. It especially requires one password shared among all moderators, which is inconvenient. Why is this inconvenient? Shared password *never* is a good idea. You don't know, where they are and if You have to change the moderaters group - i.e. excluding some - for any reason, the change of password is obligatory and affects all active moderators. That's definitely inconvenient not only for the list admin. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Mail List issues
Hi Marco, *, M. Fioretti schrieb: On Wed, Mar 09, 2011 15:16:35 PM +0100, Christian Lohmaier (lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com) wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:05 AM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why are unsubscribed posts even allowed? It would seem that folks would have learned from the OOo list history. Excuse me? What is wrong with allowing non-subscribers messages? And what would you have learned from OOo list history? Christian, NoOp refers, I think, to what I summarized in this post last November, just to not rewrite it every time these discussions come up: http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/ please note that I explicitly acknowledge in that page that it is unavoidable that such a support list must accept (after moderation) even messages from unsubscribed users. So (in this case) I agree with you that non-subscribers messages must pass. Which in my opinion is managed quite well with the moderaters work. This said, the OOo list history is there. What may be learned from it is up to the reader. And, of course, what can actually be done today by LibO to not repeat those particular mistakes depends on the available infrastructure. I read Your page (second time :o))) and second what You wrote. One solution could be: For each mail sent to the list from a not subscribed user send a automtically generated answer to his mailadress containing the already generated search hash for http://www.mail-archive.com. So no volunteer is bothered to even think about any subscription issues and the once in his life asking member will be provided with the answers. Already done: Each message sent to any of our public lists already has such a header. This is the one of Your post I'm replying to: Archived-At: http://go.mail-archive.com/RjF-au8F7oa5W9Jc7Z9f2S2YwhA= No clue how much work implementing such thing. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Florian, NoOp, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: NoOp wrote on 2011-03-10 06.10: [..] If you have a good proposal, let me know. We, however, tried every solution, and mlmmj seemed best. +1 What we, and that's where I agree with you, need is some web interface that helps users in managing their subscriptions. I won't worry about that, as long as it ist *not* obligatory! One of the big advantages of the mail way of managing mailing list (un-)subscriptions is *not* to have one more account anywhere around. [..] Perhaps it is because by the time the reach point of unsubscribing to the list(s) that they don't want to read? Don't know, but if the unsubscribe/subscribe information were posted on the website mail list area maybe they could instead be referred to that instead of some special email? I wait for that link since January! No one was able to provide me with it up to now! see: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg04585.html [..] How about tagging moderated messages so that subscribed users know that the post is from a unsubscribed poster and has been forwarded by a moderator? It's rather simple: just as a [Moderated] tag to the subject of the message. As said, we would have to iplement that ourselves. So, if there's a volunteer, willing to work on the mlmmj source code, I am happy install a patch. Sadly, no mailing list system I know of provides that, but it would indeed be a great feature. See my mail to Marco: http://go.mail-archive.com/RjF-au8F7oa5W9Jc7Z9f2S2YwhA= In short saying: send autgenerated mail to nonsubscriber pointing to the archived thread of his question. Then if the mandate is to allow unsubscribed posts, *please* identify the post as such with a [Moderated] tag in the subject. As you may/or may not have witnessed on the OOo list over the past 5 years or so, this issue has been a subject of contention that raises it's ugly head at least once a month. The general consensus was to allow unsubscribed posters; the key problem was/is that there was/is no easy way to know if the post came from such. As Marko says in his Blog: don't bother valuable volunteers with that question at all. So folks send off a reply only to be told later that the time they took to respond fell on deaf ears because the OP was from someone not subscribed to the list. They then have to decide whether they wish to reforward their response to the Unsub, or just move on. I agree that this would be helpful, it just has to be developed, as no mailing list manager provides it out of the box. My take would be, btw, to add the information to the message body, in order to not break threading with a modified subject. Again, if someone wants to come up with a patch that does it, you're welcome! See http://mlmmj.org/bugs/bug.php?id=20 This from my point of view is one solution even if not my favorite. [..] Is it a limitation for mlmmj, or can the instructions that are received in the email be posted on the website? See above. I'm waiting just for the link - no matter whether alive or not - since weeks. [..] In a nutshell: Four things can help, and if someone works on them, that would be welcome 1. A website explaining the unsubscription mechanism 2. A web interface for moderators and users of the lists 3. A patch to tag moderated messages 4. A patch to improve the unsubscription mechanism, so that unsubscribe always unsubscribes you from everything, as long as you just have one type of list subscription 5. A mechanism informing not subscribed people, how to find the anwers themselves. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-10 8:09 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: The one situation where unsubscribing is difficult is when the reply asking for confirmation to unsubscribe is flagged as spam and thus not sorted to the user's inbox, but then again that's not the fault of the list-management. So change the default behavior... Make the confirmation email just that - a confirmation that an unsubscribe request has been made, and if they don't cancel the request within - what, 12? 24? hours, then the unsubscribe request is honored. Not a really good idea in my opinion, because anyone can unsubscribe You! In worst case, this enables the possibility of an unsubscription war. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New project list
Hi Sophie, *, Sophie Gautier schrieb: In order to better coordinate the work between the different language projects we have settled a new list: proje...@libreoffice.org: [..] please subscribe to this list by sending a mail to: projects+subscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org shure You wanted to recommend subscription of digest mode for general purpose? I'll add two more ways to subscribe: # get normal list mails projects+subscr...@libreoffice.org # get no mails but be able to send from gmane or nabble: projects+subscribe-nom...@libreoffice.org # get a summary of the basic commands (except normal subscription =bug?) projects+h...@libreoffice.org Archives of the list are here: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/projects/ http://www.mail-archive.com/projects@libreoffice.org/ Gmane is pending. Thanks! dito ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Need for more compound words for spellcheck dictionary.
Hi Robert, *, I'm not very deep involved in spellchecking, but nevertheless trying a shot.. Robert Derman schrieb: RGB ES wrote: AFAIK, LibO dictionaries are the same dictionaries from OOo. If you have a custom dictionary where you added the words you miss, you can import (I mean, copy to the right location) that dictionary into LibO user profile. See here for more details about the user profile: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile 2011/2/20 Robert Derman robert.der...@pressenter.com : One of the reasons, perhaps the main reason I have not upgraded to LO from OpenOffice 3.1 yet is that I dread having to go through the process of adding over a thousand compound words to the spellcheck dictionary. This dictionary has almost NO compound words in it! Does anyone know if this problem has been addressed with LO 3.3. I am using the U.S. English version. If this severe shortcoming has not yet been addressed yet, I think we should do so before version 3.4. If I remember well german, dictionary changed to hunspell dictionary engine for that reason. German and many more languages' words are compound words in a very wide range so that problem arose from beginning. Not shure what spellchecking engine is used for english languages spellchecking - I guess it's aspell which has poor support for compound words. But all guessed. Not enough insight in that topic. [.. impact of poor spellchecking ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Best time for Conference Calls
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: I thought I would put forward a view regarding the best time for conference calls being held world wide. The current situation regarding the conference calls is such that the people situated in South-East Asia and Australia need to be awake at 3-4AM to attend the calls. As I assume it to be common sense, confcalls not beeing the way to get community wide decisions. What about building local/timezone based groups holding conf calls at a time convenient to their members? Afterwards sharing the results on the mailing lists where people can read them at any convenient moment? Might I suggest That we move the times earlier in the day to around 1200-1400 GMT. http://www.wheatland.com.au/sites/default/files/files/BestTimeCalling.PNG As far as I can see this would exclude the least number of people around the world from attending the calls. Where is the timezone nobody would be excluded? What do others think? See above. Another fact to consider: many people are excluded simply by not beeing capable to follow nor participate a spoken english coversation at telephone but can do so writing english or persoally present. My conclusion: Conf calls can complete the daily community work but should not be a in any way main part of it. Thanks, my pleasure :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi @ll, If You think, it beeing a good thing to have a posting guidelines pointer in the footer, then I'll be glad to put it in there for all active Mailinglists. What I need is an URL within the project wiki- or webpages to point at. There already is a german one to have an ipression what I'm thinking of. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de Bottom post for completeness. Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: Fabián Rodríguez schrieb: [..] This page should provide information on how to make yours compliant with the multilingual conventions for the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki Thanks Fabián, for the Link. Maybe there will be a helpful mind reading it and at least provide me with the URL pointing the page's right place if it existed. I'd put in that line even if the page wasn't completed yet. So maybe the motivation to fill it with useful content might rise. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi Andrea, *, Andrea Pescetti schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: If You think, it beeing a good thing to have a posting guidelines pointer in the footer, then I'll be glad to put it in there for all active Mailinglists. I agree it's a good thing to have it, and I suggest to seize this opportunity to get rid of the eternity tagline if possible, in favor of a less flamboyant formulation. It's not flamboyant, but lyric! :o)) But indeed it's on the agenda, too (assuming that more votes against it represent a mayority of opinion rather than higher power of naggers). ;o)). But as required I need the URL for the right place of netiquette information, before starting operation. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] paid Doodle account
Hi Florian, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: [.. add free doodle ..] I'd like to keep the ad-freeness, it's not that annoying and looks much more professional. Anyone knows of a solution that does this for free? Moreganize is much better IMHO, but they don't support timezones yet, and I don't have the time right now to look into self-hosted solutions. If we find nothing else, anyone would object to spend the 22 € from our TDF funds for one year of ad-free Doodle? Or don't you care about the ads? If that 22€/year aren't a big effort I'd agree with you. 1.) The service seem to be O.K. 22€ are not a big deal 2.) Most of us work for the project for free, why should we *pay* attention to the adds on top of that, or do any effort to avoid that? 3.) If there is a selfhosting solution out there one year should be enough time to find out and set up. in summary +1 to No Adds Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] relocating mailing lists at libreoffice.org?
Hi Florian, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: [..relocating Mailadresses..] There are two options for this issue: a.) We could use @libreoffice.net or some other domain ending (TLD) for those e-mail addresses b.) We move the mailing lists @libreoffice.org to some subdomain (like l...@libreoffice.org = l...@global.libreoffice.org) Thoughts on that? What about b.) with 1) @project.libreoffice.org - for all nonpersonal mail addresses i.e. Mailinglists, multirecipients, .. 2) @libreoffice.org - for officers and highload merits and maybe 3) @community.libreoffice.org - for the adicts (generous availability) so the 3) ones give some aahhhs and ooohhs noticing a 2) one.. similar *but not equal* to the 2char@openoffice.org adresses. ;o)) What I like on Ubuntu is that signing the Code of conduct. You have to sign the document with your gpg key. This way some going through baptism of fire would be the price for the mail address. You asked for it ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi Fabián, *, Fabián Rodríguez schrieb: On 11-01-17 02:56 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: [.. footer ..] There is already one from the german language project: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de As I'm not familiar with naming conventions of the wikipages it would help just to have the URL this page's place corresponding to the obove mentioned german one. Can someone provide help with this? Hello Friedrich, This page should provide information on how to make yours compliant with the multilingual conventions for the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki Thanks Fabián, for the Link. Maybe there will be a helpful mind reading it and at least provide me with the URL pointing the page's right place if it existed. I'd put in that line even if the page wasn't completed yet. So maybe the motivation to fill it with useful content might rise. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi Jonathan, *, Jonathan Aquilina schrieb: On 01/17/2011 11:30 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: 2011/1/16 Friedrich Strohmaierdamokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Le Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:23:02 +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de a écrit : Olivier Hallot schrieb: [..] Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org +1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have such an address). I've a different view whom beeing part of the community: What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving him first support but never appearing in the official contributing system here? [..] So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy without an email address or a special status. Friedrich may i add that all i have see on other FOSS projects is that mails are given to big time developers to the project, not users or fans of a given project. All is a big word here ;o)). I was Member of one of the largest FOSS communities (think of three O two upper case, lower case the last) for many (some 7 or 8) years, where it was obligatory to get a mailadress just to have an account for some (by far not all) community resources (issuetracker). So You did oversee at least one.. And the best: there was no way to get rid of it! No way to delete the account :o)). Seriously I think in respect of our (the successor of the above) project size we have to go our own way. And I continue thinking it wasn't to bad to get a member that easy. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?
Hi RGB ES, *, RGB ES schrieb: It is clear you cannot please everyone: the list of problems you see on forums is almost the same list of problems I usually see on mailing lists... Every communication system have the same merits and defects of the people using it. Nothing more, nothing less. The system can only add tools to easy the work of people using it, Good words.. and the tools you have on forums are for sure more useful that the tools available on mailing lists. What the hell does You make thinking that? They are different - yes but more useful? It again depends on who does what! Example search tool: I personally like to search my locally archived mails (sometimes thousands in one archive) with tools I'm familiar with - sometimes with grep. So grep is more useful than a very limited search on some forum? Nope! It's more useful for *me* beeing familiar with it. And obviously this is one of the strong side of mailinglists: Everyone is free to choose his own means organazing and reading the mails. Not only local means but also reading and writing via nntp-client (gmane), listarchive (mail-archive.com) even in a forum-like UI (nabble). The content is build by the people. Exactly. And there is a point I didn't read up to now (or missed it): Regardless how organized: The success of every volunteer driven support offer is not only low threshold accessibility for people needing help, but also enough meat for the people giving support! That is not only a high rate of questions but also a certain level of knowlage available for themselves! And I know of many of those having that necessary level of knowlegde in one or more areas of LO/OOo which declaired they never will join a forum. That doesn't mean a forum is a evel thing at all. But assumed the above condition is true, it will never be a support offer representing all available knowledge. Admittedly it can complete the support chain - as did the german ooo-forum I know from telling. No clue about the international one. I think the OOo community forum are a good example of how forums can be really useful: lots of difficult problems are solved there and all the volunteers have good knowledge of what they are talking about. Forums are noisy only when moderators do not do they work (move/merge/split threads...). Of course there are a lot of noisy forums out there, but that's a problem with the people, not with the system ;) again - good words ;o)) btw please consider http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html here: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.5 for more clear and efficient communication. :o)) [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?
Hi Charles, *, I should never write mails before having the second cup of coffee. Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-01-17 7:50 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: [..] What the hell does You make thinking that? They are different - yes but more useful? It again depends on who does what! I'm really becoming more and more dismayed at all of the infighting going on on these lists - it gives me pause that LibO may not be able Oh, sorry You are totally right! My apologies. to survive, if those holding the reins right now are unable or unwilling to make some changes that will smooth the way for those wanting to contribute, without fear that their efforts will all be for naught. I'll care for more civilized wording in future. Case in point - Michael's work on Drupal would have provided integrated mail list forums nabble so that any user could use their tool of choice, and all would be interconnected, not isolated, making these silly chest-thumping arguments about which tool is better totally moot. Thanks for pointing out. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] An Interesting Mockup
Hi Zaphod, *, Zaphod Feeblejocks schrieb: [.. side oriented toolbar ..] Granted, the current LibO/OOo interface looks dated, but people know their way round it - at least the know how to find the things they use. Some things are far too clumsy (e.g. mail- merging). A sudden change would drive people (well, me) back over to OOo. Let's reach a proper concensus. +1 Now that most screens are wide screen A side bar based UI is the best usage of space. Fair point - but give users the option. I strongly second this! [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi community, a new year has started - at least for some of us, and I'll take a new attempt of finishing the footers of the List emails. We decided to have an additional line containing a link to a project wikipage providing posting guidelines like netiquette/quoting and other helpful informaition. Some of the valued readers of my former mails in this matter intended to setup such a page. There is already one from the german language project: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de As I'm not familiar with naming conventions of the wikipages it would help just to have the URL this page's place corresponding to the obove mentioned german one. Can someone provide help with this? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi Charles, *, Who is it, You agree? Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Le Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:23:02 +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de a écrit : Olivier Hallot schrieb: Em 14-01-2011 16:16, Tom Davies escreveu: OTOH if people use the email address per...@openoffice.org then it gets the name OpenOffice out there and being seen by a lot of people. Free advertising! +1 For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a t-shirt with a well known brand or message. I agree with this. Regarding easy handling: I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with @libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this can happen in case of missuse. So, nickn...@libreoffice.org + 1 Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org +1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have such an address). I've a different view whom beeing part of the community: What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving him first support but never appearing in the official contributing system here? Whats about the teacher advocating and promoting LO in his scool or even an excited user advocating the suite in his company? You wouldn't allow him to use a @libreoffice.org alias? You agree the statements of Tom, Olivier and mine one, finally advocating the opposite - did You read it? :o)) No offence :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi Olivier, *, Olivier Hallot schrieb: Em 14-01-2011 16:16, Tom Davies escreveu: OTOH if people use the email address per...@openoffice.org then it gets the name OpenOffice out there and being seen by a lot of people. Free advertising! +1 For some people this is even a matter of pride, like wearing a t-shirt with a well known brand or message. I agree with this. Regarding easy handling: I tend to expect there is more good than bad to be generous with @libreoffice.org Mail adresses to people joining or even beeing in favor of LibreOffice. Similar as, but not equal as of with openoffice.org. As mentioned by Bernhard, there should be a mechanism of revoking it and it should be clear for everyone this can happen in case of missuse. So, nickn...@libreoffice.org + 1 Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*
Hi David, *, David Nelson schrieb: [.. libreoffice.org website lauch delay issues ..] We're going to get this site on the road really quickly now. That are good news! :o)) Thanks for feeding the engine with gasoline. :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: deb installer - have to manually modify link
Hi Marc, *, Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2010-12-06 04:48, Rainer M Krug a écrit : [..] Would it be possible to provide one link to the .deb and on to the rpm on the download page? I agree. I use the RPM version and it works quite well for this, but it would also be nice to put a Linux DEB download button(s) or make some other type of arrangements till the www.test.libreoffice.org site goes live. The download site as it stands is probably frustrating a lot of users who are interested in helping out. Even our own DEB members are frustrated over this situation. Do You know anything about Websitestatus and sheduled switch? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] deb installer - have to manually modify link
Hi Stefan, *, Stefan Weigel schrieb: Am 06.12.2010 12:21, schrieb Sebastian Spaeth: On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 11:52:25 +0100, Stefan Weigel wrote: Try the other download page http://www.test.libreoffice.org/download/ I get: Page not found Sorry, it seems you were trying to access a page that doesn't exist. BTW, any chance to sqitch to to that very soon? It shouldn't hard to replicate the static content that we have there right now and it would modifying/improving the content so much easier... I wonder whether it will be published at all. I think we should publish right now as is and complete under traffic, considering a website never beeing perfect. :o)) Well, someone just changed http://www.test.libreoffice.org/download/ and made downloading again very inconvenient. The convenient script can still be found here http://s132649167.online.de/LibO_test/sw_download.php There is also one more draft here: http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/ Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why is LO/OOo so slow loading a spreadsheet?
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: Another topic ignored? Maybe a mailing list isn't the right tool... Maybe? It's good and recommended practice in mailinglists only to answer, if knowing an answer. Many search engine hits I found, show: this isn't on forums. ;o)) Happy if not having to read one. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why is LO/OOo so slow loading a spreadsheet?
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: Maybe the right list would help. Try the users list, [hidden email] or ask the developers, [hidden email] . That is exactly my point. In a forum,anyone could answer. wrong. anyone *which is reading* - same thing in a mailinglist. :o)) [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] accessibility mailing list
Hi Sigrid, *, Thanks for clarification.. Sigrid Carrera schrieb: 2010/11/29 Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de might be I don't understand accesibility well.. yes, perhaps. Accessibility refers to people who have some disabilities, like bad eyesight, so you need a screen reader to learn about the content of a website or a document. O.K. then I was on the wrong track. I assumed things regarding (bad) user experience which isn't wrong in this context but a different topic. I didn't get disabilities well. Florian Effenberger schrieb: [..] following large mail threads not related to that topic, can be a problem - so a dedicated list indeed might make sense. This can be a problem for whomever. It's only solution is to get Your tools and Your communication partners help You achieving that task. This can be shurely be demanded by someone willing tho help development. Someone looking for advice is a completely different story and should be handled as such. Depending on those people's disability, they can see this almost as an personal attack (I remember those threads on the users list quite well...) Got it - thanks. :o)) So concerns for a seperate mailinglist are resolved. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: A better idea for a download package.
Hi Robert, *, Robert Derman schrieb: [.. big snip ..] P.S. I hope we can find a company or group of volunteers that can make an LO package available on disk. Regarding ISO-files for burning disks: good news for You. We offered such ISO files for german language OpenOffice.org installer, templates, extentions, and additional software to equip an office box. We will also release an international/english version, but some time is needed to set this up. I think it should be possible to make it available for no more than 5 US dollars or equivalent including shipping. For those folks with NO internet connection, it would be best if we could get the disk into retail channels. For these people, if a software program is not available at retail, then it simply doesn't exist. With such an ISO probably You might be distributor and retailer of that disk for Your region? To get an impression of our box You can grab the current DVD iso file here (german, Bittorrent only): http://torrent.projects.ooodev.org:6969/torrents/LibreOffice_3.3.0-1_DVD_snapshot-20101112-22.25.13_libreoffice-box_allplatforms_libreofice-box_de.iso.torrent?info_hash=47dd3235a48b67860fe91b44ea7e0b83f925796f If You aren't afraid of german, download it, burn it (not as file, but by burn image.. ) and have a look. We built in a more easy to use windows installer realized through an on disk k-meleon browser. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: A proposal for effective, volunteer-friendly user support in LibreOffice
Hi Marco, *, M. Fioretti schrieb: [..] as I already said, more than promoting any support mode as the only one, my proposal is more limited to NOT making useless/embarassing the email mode. Right now, the only other proposals that come to my mind to make support as efficient as possible are: - add some problem category field to the form I mention in my article (e.g. My problem is: 1) format compatibility, 2) configuration, 3 macros) - instead of sending an email, that form inside LibO may just query the search engine of the Drupal website. .. and offer one more possibility?: No satisfying answer found? - Ask a question! which is sent to any resource, choosen to give useful answers, in a dedicated fashion and with a dedicated way to reach the requesting person. That might be an instant Email or confirm message containing links to (future) results or emails anouncing each answer by link to a public place - *not with answer inside* to not provocate an unhelpfull reply! my 2¢ Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 07:34:13PM +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: From a geeks point of view You are right. But I'm shure that it is not a good idea to make all people out there geeks before using a computer or using office software ;o)). Ah, so we should let people not care about their PCs, how to use it, keep it safe etc. and thus affecting all, spreading viruses, spam and having botnets active? No, it's never a good idea to replace one evel with another one and I can't remember having advocated that. :o)) So I heavily hope, that LibreOffice will leave it's past behind and will grow from a developer driven software to a community driven one. What the hell does that have to do with people using PCs getting their basics straight? Correctly, it doesn't. Yes, You are right. It was the attitude carried by Your advice which made me writing that statement. I missed the respect regarding the OP's work, deciding to install Libreoffice, getting wired, and *writing a report* about that. We definitly *want* that information. (Otherwise I agree with you, we can argue about marketing and I agree for some deeper features you need docs, but come on, are you also going to tell people on how to use their mouse?) Using a mouse (I learned that 36 years old in five minutes) and installing deb based software *not hold by a repo*, are incomparably different levels of technical practice :o)). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Community driven Project (was:Request: Installation Instructions)
Hi Italo, *, Italo Vignoli schrieb: [..] The fact that I am technically illiterate (and I like being so) does not make me a worse user, or one with less rights. Communities around the world have made OOo a better product because they have cared about users, although the project was clearly driven by developers not able to show any respect for users (and where the community was not there the project has been marginally successful). TDF should not reproduce the same mistakes. The success of the project cannot be built on a group prevailing on others. There is nothing to add to that statement. And You are not alone achiving this! ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Communication in Mailinglist
Hi Christian Lohmaier, *, Christian Lohmaier schrieb: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Gmail very capable for mailing lists. Except for the very one drawback you just demonstrated: When changing the subject, gmail will break the thread (start a new one) as it will remove the references from the reply. Can't confirm. References are O.K. here. So it's an accidently damage or a gmail ./. gmail prob (If I interpreted headers well). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 11/19/2010 7:16 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Charles Marcus schrieb: I'd really like to see an email support list dedicated solely to questions in the nature of I know how to do this in Excel/Word/Powerpoint, but how do I do it on Calc/Writer/Impress?... No, not a mailinglist for that. A mailing list is a quite high hurdle to participate the question - answer mechanism.. I'd rather like to see this in a FAQ - perhaps in a dedicated area or tagged with MSO relation. An FAQ is a good idea, and could quickly be built as a result of questions/answers from the mail list - so if this is done, I'd suggest adding a simple way to ask a question from the FAQ if the user cannot find an answer - that question would then be posted to the users list, and once it is answered, the answer could easily be added to the FAQ... I agree, this is the Way to go. A No answer found? Ask a Question button working that way is a very interesting Idea. There is a similar thing in launchpad - even in a different context. Random example: https://launchpad.net/kdocker look at the right Navbar Ask a question. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Version Numbers?
Hi Florian Reisinger, *, This mail arrived completely screwed up! I'm sure no one made the effort to read it. Florian Reisinger schrieb: [.. screwed content ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: [.. depency question ..] Nope. Really, I expect anybody having root on a Debian-based system to know dpkg. Seriously. So you'd recommend everybody just running a desktop machine and not wanting to get a full featured serveradmin to abhore debian? It would be much easier if there were a single meta-package that would act as the start point. Failing that, at least an ordered list that an http://packages.debian.org/libreoffice FTR. I can't see this hint an useful answer to the OP's question regarding his aparent debian knowledge. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: If I may throw in my 2c. Welcome! :o)) As a part of the official LibreOffice Drupal website development we will be creating a QA area where there are standard questions and answers, but it will also give people the opportunity to ask their own questions That sounds good. and have them answered quickly by anyone else on the website at the time. that's a to small base of present knowledge. In addition to this we will be setting up support accounts on all of the major social networks. I'm quite shure, it is not a good idea to split forces and know how that way. There should be a common place where technical support should happen. Technical issues should be remembered not only by a presentation platform but also by some kind of common brain. Answers should be generated with common knowledge in their back. To many places get that find the question on your question effect, which I personally dislike much. IMHO the process of subscribing, confirming, asking the question, getting relies then unsubscribing seems a little much for an end user to ask a simple question. That's what at least I never did think of. Who claimed that? [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: René Engelhard schrieb: Nope. Really, I expect anybody having root on a Debian-based system to know dpkg. Seriously. [..] You were responding *my* mail not referring to my contents. Please take care for clear communication. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:15:25PM +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: So you'd recommend everybody just running a desktop machine and not wanting to get a full featured serveradmin to abhore debian? No, I want desktop users to know how to use their system. And if they also administer it they should know basics about dpkg. http://packages.debian.org/libreoffice FTR. I can't see this hint an useful answer to the OP's question regarding his aparent debian knowledge. True, but those are debs he can install if he used squeeze or sid :) From a geeks point of view You are right. But I'm shure that it is not a good idea to make all people out there geeks before using a computer or using office software ;o)). So I heavily hope, that LibreOffice will leave it's past behind and will grow from a developer driven software to a community driven one. :o))) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi Craig, *, Craig A. Eddy schrieb: On 11/20/2010 07:59 AM, Stefan Weigel wrote: Am 20.11.2010 15:51, schrieb Craig A. Eddy: there is no obvious way to start to install the files. Dependencies for each .deb have to be met, but nothing indicates the order with which to install them. When dealing with 52 .deb files it's like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle where all distinguishing marks have been filed off. It would be much easier if there were a single meta-package that would act as the start point. Even if knowing how to proceed as mentioned by Stefan, I support your Request. Axel Reimer set up such a meta-package for our (german) PrOOo-Box approach, which made it by far easier to install and to *deinstall* all related packages. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] changed footers of all documentfoundation and libreoffice.org mailing lists
Hi all, I changed the footers of all documentfoundation.org and libreoffice.org mailinglists according to this one. For I did so by script, please report if you notice funny things ;o)). I skipped the posting guidelines line because it links to an external target. Within a few days I will put a link to an internal page containing posting guidelines - maybe existing then or later ;o)) After fixing some issues concerning utf-8 char handling the native lang projects list footers will have translated footers, if there a people doing so. The footers may contain four lines at maximum 80 chars each. You may already discuss and prepare a footer. I will ask for it when we are ready to build in. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own LibreOfficeFont
Hi Florian, *, Florian Reisinger schrieb: This is the right link: http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612Kind regards I get: Sign In http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own LibreOfficeFont
Hi Mateusz, *, Mateusz Zasuwik schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: I get: Sign In http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction Try http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612 ;) works better! Thanks :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice bits ...
Hi Italo, *, Italo Vignoli schrieb: Bruce Byfield wrote: [.. intersting question ..] Copying to the marketing@ and discuss@ mailing lists. Not a good idea. On each of that lists users will miss (interesting) answers, they can only find fiddling around with several lists. In case of casual reply to all posters there will be to check double content for uniqe postings. It'd probably be a good idea to send an anounce mail to that lists with a link to a suitable archived thread of this list. Example: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg02916.html [.. interesting answer :o)) ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] document foundation wiki issues ...
Hi Jonathan, *, Jonathan Aquilina schrieb: Random thought here. im willing to donate some webspace to a wordpress setup for the project. i have experience in making the site look less like a blog and more like a proper website and there are some really killer themes available for wordpress. The wiki is intended to be a pool of information to be completed by everybody rather than the projects website. would you guys be interested in migrating away from a wiki. No, never ;o)) the way i see it the problem with a wiki is that anyone from the site and possibly even spammers can edit the page be it contributors or not. at least with wordpress you just have a list of users who have permissions to edit the site, as well as those who can just post and comment etc. what do you all think? The Website is already work in progress, coming up soon and realized through a CMS which covers all your points and more ;o)). [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Changed footer of listmails
Hi Barbara, *, Barbara Duprey schrieb: On 10/26/2010 4:18 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Barbara Duprey schrieb: [..] I notice that the footer has gone back to implying that +help will accomplish the unsubscribe, rather than providing instructions -- this was fixed before, I'm not aware of that.. I can look up the discussion, but it was changed for a while (maybe only on the users list? think it was Florian...). O.K. I took that: Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org more clear this one? [..] How would You pack that in max. 80 chars? In the other discussion, it was mentioned that the longer lines were a problem because they wrapped inside the mailto, so I suggested starting the message with Email to as you've done here -- but from what you say they're not allowed to exceed 80 characters at all. 80 characters is a recommended limit which almost every known mail app won't wrap. [.. Link posting guidelines on a inner projekt page ..] Exactly that's what I asked for someone to realize in a wiki page, to link at instead. Would You like to do that? :o)) What I'm planning is to set up a discussion wiki for collaboration on what would most likely become a Support page that contained, or if necessary linked to, all the information we'd like people to consider when they're looking for help -- use of FAQs, forums, mailing lists, archives, issue trackers, etc. If this were properly organized, it could be referenced by, say, moderators receiving posts from unsubscribed users. I'm trying to come up with a strawman for the structure to get the ball rolling. There is some effort going on about the whole issue of how to support users at their first point of contact, whatever that is, and I think your suggestion fits in that discussion very well. Thanks! That's a great idea.. btw.: Do You or someone else have a link to a good mailinglist netiquette. Quoting ist just *one* aspect of writing good mails in a mailing list. How about www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.htm? Gives me: Error No matches to your request were found. Possible causes * Incorrect URL. Check spelling and try again. * Link does not exist. Use the browser's back button to return to the referring page. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Changed footer of listmails
Hi Barbara, *, Barbara Duprey schrieb: On 10/26/2010 1:31 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Hi TDF enthusiasts, I changed the footer for mails of this list. [..] I'd prefer having a wiki page containing a short 3 step guide summarizing that tipps and link there. If somebody would set up one would be a great thing. [..] I notice that the footer has gone back to implying that +help will accomplish the unsubscribe, rather than providing instructions -- this was fixed before, I'm not aware of that.. it's misleading. It would be best to provide both unsubscribe addresses and the help one: Email to discuss+unsubscr...@libreoffice.org to unsubscribe from the list Email to discuss+unsubscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org to unsubscribe from the list digest. Email to discuss+h...@libreoffice.org for general help information. too long! I had to fight for permission of four lines max. 80 chars each.. Or if that is regarded as making the footer too cumbersome, just point to the general help but without implying it will actually do the unsubscribe: Email to discuss+h...@libreoffice.org for help with list operations such as unsubscribing. How would You pack that in max. 80 chars? [..] The other footer info looks OK, though possibly the guideline information should be incorporated into our own support structure rather than referencing an outside source. That would allow tailoring it to reflect specific guidelines for our lists, if desired. Exactly that's what I asked for someone to realize in a wiki page, to link at instead. Would You like to do that? :o)) There is some effort going on about the whole issue of how to support users at their first point of contact, whatever that is, and I think your suggestion fits in that discussion very well. Thanks! my pleasure :o)) btw.: Do You or someone else have a link to a good mailinglist netiquette. Quoting ist just *one* aspect of writing good mails in a mailing list. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to the lists are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] unsubscribe [was: Multilingualism...]
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-20 6:41 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: This line has been modified because there is a different way to unsubscribe from digest lists. We had a thread here complaining about digest users couldn't unsubscribe at all. ?? That makes no sense. Each list has it's *own* footer, right (if not, why?)? So each list should have the correct unsubscribe link at the bottom. Youre right *but* AFAIK the digest mails are a container of the mails sent during the day. And *those* single mails hold the footer of the original one posted. But probably I'm wrong with this because I never order digest mails. So maybe You can correct me :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] [SC] Steering Committee Info at the wiki
Hi Benjamin, *, Benjamin Horst schrieb: This is exactly why I suggested we look at multiple wiki engines before installing one and proceeding. ACL features of Foswiki make it easy to specify a separate set of pages or an individual page, and control who has edit access, view access, or no visibility of the page at all. Details: http://foswiki.org/System/AccessControl As far as I know there is some mechanism wikis can talk and exchange content. Do You know of that feature? I think changing the wiki machine later on if this comes up to be useful will not be that big deal. For the moment I think mediawiki is a good joice because - people are used to work with - its already set up and in use - there already technical knowledge is present to drive it waiting a long time with hands prepared to work also can be frustrating. [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] I like the name LibreOffice
Hi Mirek, *, Mirek M. schrieb: Well, I'm a Czech and my native language is Czech. The problem I have with LibreOffice is that it's just hard to pronounce. I'm not very good at saying the French r, so I try to say LibreOffice with an English accent, which doesn't sound very good either. LibreOffice with a Czech accent sounds even worse. It's not necessarily bad, if the Name has some hurdles with pronunciation. As we see in this and other threads: this gets people in touch. ;o)) Finally there will be several flavors of pronunciation - and good moments if they meat each other! :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Unsubscribe NOT working!!!
Hi Volker, *, Volker Heggemann schrieb: Hi Florian, same problem at my side. I couldn't get out of the digest list?! I don't know why? what was the link used for unsubscribing digest uses a link different from the one in the footer of each mail. Send a mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org to get more info. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE
Hi Larry, *, Larry Gusaas schrieb: Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it properly in the first place? for the others which want to read by nntp and don't worry to be subscribed. -- Just ignore it! :o)) Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss or on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it indicate that you have to subscribe to the mailing list in order to post through Gmane. Yes, this might be a good idea. Meanwhile just subscribe in nomail mode discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org so - You are subscribed - don't get mails [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
