Re: [tdf-discuss] Explanation . . . ?
Hi Sophie, *, Sophie schrieb: Carolina Flores Hine wrote: [..] So, of course, the scenario will be better if Oracle gives the trademark to the community, but if we have to wait a month for that to happen, the situation will still be complicated. In that case, it may be better if we start positioning LibreOffice now because in two months, it may be too late. Of course, we decided to wait for your guidances but we want to make sure you are thinking about the consequences of waiting for the trademark . We are well aware of this marketing issue and more, the lack of confidence it can bring to our users. We won't wait a long time What do You (and the steering team?) expect from comunicating a waiting period? From my point of view doing so, only can end in one result: A shot in the own foot. What, if You comunicate a period of let's say 5 days and Oracle acts at 6th day? You show Your tongue and say to late?. I think it's a good idea to communicate beeing prepared to talk at any time. There will be a point, where it is too late to stop the train. And if Oracle wants to save the value of Oracle Open Office as a near relative of good branded OpenOffice.org than *they* have to catch the train. *They* have to hurry up. *They* will loose if they miss it. If they aren't aware of that, every minute even to think on further waiting is lost time for us. Not to forget the signal sent: We *almost* trust our idea and our work started to be good. ;o)) and meanwhile we will continue to work on the foundation settlement and the quality of the version we want to deliver. We need to show to the world what we are able to do and the quality we aim, and we are going to do it :) +1 Thanks a lot for doing what some of us only dared to dream: building a home for OpenOffice. same from my part. Thanks a lot for being there, without the community, a dream would stay a dream ! impressing to notice the activity and the fresh breath. :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New GUI for OOo/Libreoffice....
Hi Mike, *, Mike Houben schrieb: Hey you all, I'm starting to make some scratches, but i need some help with your ideas from your point of vue. You knew the GUI of Microsoft's Office and the one Apple has done. Have you some things you like to have also in the GUI of our app? do you like to have other things that they don't have? what do you don't like about our GUI? I was involved in a discussion on that topic in Apr 2007 started by Chris Monahan: [discuss] Configuration Sets +++ excerpts http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@openoffice.org/msg13753.html Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:32:01 -0700 It seems to me that those seeking to make decisions about OpenOffice, particularly the user interface, are plagued by the perpetual question: Is this for power users, or average users? [..] on top of that it would make sense to, at install time, or first use time, query the user as to what default configuration set they would like to use. for example: 1:power user. 2:simplified. 3:Microsoft Office like. 4:Open Office Classic I introduced capes - configurationset + skin, which make it possible to compose those different environments of UI. http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@openoffice.org/msg13845.html André Wyrwa: [..] More particularly, such an option would have the benefit of enabling not only scaled configurations, but specialized setups for certain tasks or branches. me: In addition an other point of view: Imagine there was a framework, which allowed building that configuration sets (let's call them capes to complete the suite? :o))) in an easy way. This made it possible to widely extend the resources of active OOo development by separating core development from GUI development. The latter could be done by the new founded ux project. [..] +++ /excerpts I think this is a topic for: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/LibreOffice/CrazyIdeas ;o)) Thanks for your help :) de nada :o)) possibly the time has come, old dreams to come true. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] User participation - bugtracking (was:LibreOffice general ideas and suggestions)
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-01 6:23 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: [.. Bugtracker ..] OOo wasn't really that hard to get, compared to other bug reports the form is pretty standarized. [..] I have used more than a few bug reporters, and Openoffice.orgs was terribly complicated, especially for casual users who wanted to report a bug. There needs to be a really easy way for users to report bugs - then triagers can confirm these bugs, and make sure they get reported properly in the main system... I heavily support this idea. I also saw different bugtracking systems. None of them can serve users, because all are developer tools to manage bugs and enhancement requests in a effective way. Thus each of them has to represent the complexity of that task. There always will be needed human filtering to avoid messed up bugtracking systems and developers. No problem with an enthusiastic Community ;o)). [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Explanation . . . ?
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-01 6:02 PM, Jon Hamkins wrote: [..] I would be very surprised (and delighted) if they donated the trademark. Based on what they said so far, I consider it unlikely. The more I think about it, the more I disagree. If Oracle had simply donated the trademark and joined the Foundation, I'd have been ok with it, but at this point, with the things they've done since buying Sun, I think a clean break is best for the long haul. So I say farewell, Openoffice.org - and hello, LibreOffice! I have to second once more! :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New name
Hi Mirek, *, Mirek M. schrieb: 2010/10/2 Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.comlohmaier%2booofut...@googlemail.com On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: I'm really excited about the project, but I'm a bit concerned about the name. What concerns me is that one can't tell how to pronounce the name. I also thought about that, but I couldn't find a better solution. It exactly expresses, what happened: liberating the Office! ;o)). Well done, document founders! Some pronounce it librehoffice, some (including me) leeberoffice, some may even pronounce it as libberoffice. I'd pronounce it with the french word libre (free) and english office /lib fs/ (not sure about IPA, but you should get the idea. Okay, thanks, I like that pronunciation. Still, that doesn't change anything about the fact that it's hard to guess the pronunciation for the average person. Not for all average persons. Here in Germany - no problem. You face a problem, which people face with many (american-) english terms in wide parts of the world. For You won't find words identical pronounced in whole world: how abount a competition in findig cool pronunciations? Or adding some small pronunciation howto to the FAQ? :o)) And regarding the Office part: Calling it completely different might work for a single-purpose application like a webbrowser or some other dedicated tool, or when you don't give a damn about competitiors like Apple and have the corresponding marketing machinery and blind followers. agreed! [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New GUI for OOo/Libreoffice....
Hi Scott, *, Scott Furry schrieb: On 02/10/10 01:45 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Mike Houben schrieb: This was the Question asked.. Hey you all, I'm starting to make some scratches, but i need some help with your ideas from your point of vue. You knew the GUI of Microsoft's Office and the one Apple has done. Have you some things you like to have also in the GUI of our app? do you like to have other things that they don't have? what do you don't like about our GUI? This was my answer: I was involved in a discussion on that topic in Apr 2007 started by Chris Monahan: [discuss] Configuration Sets [..] -1 I very much like the current OOo GUI interface. Simple, clean and usable. I understand the need to improve things, but let's remember the adage: A camel is a horse designed by committee Not to dissuade this heartfelt and overwhelming need to help and improve LO, I would suggest that now is not the time to be entertaining ideas of rebuilding the wheel. We (an inclusive plural meaning the whole community) have a laundry list of things to take care that to me seem to have more of a priority. I never declined that, and I never claimed to integrate capes in LibO3.3 Reading the question again I have to admit: it was a heavy answer on a light question ;o)) [..] Thanks for the reminder. :o)) All the best -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] User participation - bugtracking
Hi André, *, André Schnabel schrieb: Am 02.10.2010 22:07, schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: I heavily support this idea. I also saw different bugtracking systems. None of them can serve users, because all are developer tools to manage bugs and enhancement requests in a effective way. Thus each of them has to represent the complexity of that task. There always will be needed human filtering to avoid messed up bugtracking systems and developers. No problem with an enthusiastic Community ;o)). So I read this correctly and you volunteer as bug-filter? :) Shure, why not? That's already taking place on users mailinglist or dev mailinglist: someone is reporting strange behavior. Then it is filtered whether this is local problem, platform problem or software problem. Now setting up a report or finding an existing one which is remembered by someone is something usual. Ubuntu has a bug squad team which people like to join and help out. Why shouldn't that work with LibO? Shure, this is a short term description - nevertheless I think this is the way to connect userpower and developer power and that one, not to end up as we did in issuetracker. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [GENERAL] New name
Hi Varun, *, Varun Mittal schrieb: I have been reading the arguments and come to a simple suggestion. Lets create a poll( a lot of free sites, out there), and let everyone vote. We can list all the suggested names and whichever is preferred by community be acceptable I'm not amused to see forces to be splitted, needed to bring up new infrastructure. If You and others think no power is lost by going in that discussion then do it. I personally feel, no sustainable product was made or lost because of its name. Name is important but not the most important :) How do you guys feel about the poll approach. meanwhile anyone supporting a name can give their reasons and try to convince others. Considering the work already done to come up to where we are now [1], I'm in doubt whether this approach gives any advantage to the project and the communities work. [1] http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/agreeing-on-childs-name-simple-task.html As mentioned earlier by others: There won't be a solution satisfying every community member - at least not within any reasonable period of time. This way none accuses anyone of anything and we focus our energy on more important things. I doubt, that will be stopped that way. There will be winners an loosers and who likes to loose? :o)) If you guys agree, I am ready to take responsibility of creating and reporting the results of poll. Start, if You don't have any idea to bring in your work on some other place of LibO. If once the community infrastructure and the production process is put on its feet, I'll support a name fork which can show the power of a more smooth name by feet poll - winner by download rates ;o)). Just my 2¢(€) :o)) [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
[tdf-discuss] Godot's official statement (was:New name)
Hi Andy, *, Andy Brown schrieb: On Tue Oct 05 2010 14:10:26 GMT-0700 (PDT) Christoph Noack wrote: Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 17:03 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown: On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT) Christoph Noack wrote: [..] The article only states Oracle said it was investing substantial resources in OpenOffice.org. “With more than 100 million users, we believe OpenOffice.org is the most advanced, most feature-rich open-source implementation and will strongly encourage the OpenOffice community to continue to contribute through www.openoffice.org,” the enterprise software and hardware giant said in a statement. With no name or reference to where the statement can be see. It has already been cited by Kürti on this list: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html A repeat of the news article. Aha. But what you mean? :-) Just what I said, the message only repeats the same statement. Again no name or reference to where the full statement can be found. Who made the statement? What is their position at Oracle? Anyone can make a statement but how much weight does that statement carry? If you take it a face value then there is no way that Oracle is going to hand over the trademark or anything else to the community that has helped build it. Do they actually think that they did all the work to get that 100 million users? Yet there are some that hold to the idea. No, they think they *bought* all the work. They have good reasons to remain silent. We should accept that, stop thinking about it and go ahead. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
[tdf-discuss] List-ID of this Mailinglist has changed - intentionally?
Hello listadmins, all, ID of this mailinglist has changed, so the filter doesn't grip anymore. it was: List-ID: discuss@documentfoundation.org Now it is: List-ID: discuss.documentfoundation.org Accident or intetion? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] List-ID of this Mailinglist has changed - intentionally?
Hi Simos, *, Simos Xenitellis schrieb: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de wrote: ID of this mailinglist has changed, so the filter doesn't grip anymore. [..] Accident or intetion? The first e-mail you received from the discuss mailing list (and came from the mailing list software) welcoming you has the 'discuss@documentfoundation.org' list id. The subsequence e-mails from users have the list id 'discuss.documentfoundation.org'. not all of them ;o)) It changed at about 21°° - yesterday 6th. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibO beta deb packages causes freeze using pdf-export and several menu entries
Hi Scott, *, Scott Furry schrieb: On 06/10/10 05:06 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Hi All, does anyone else experience frozen windows using pdf-export and file - save as menuentry? file - open doesn't start as doesn' the related icon System: Linux kubuntu 7.10 LibreOffice 3.3.0 OOO330m7 (Build:9526) libreoffice-build 3.2.99.0 Installed using deb-repo source deb http://download.tuxfamily.org/gericom/libreoffice / Gruß/regards I just tried a PDF-export with a Draw file I had open. No problems here. Using Debian(Squeeze) and same build. There are lots of settings that can be tweeked, could one of those settings cause your problem? I'm quite shure not.. Does pdf-export have a package dependency that you may be missing? (do we use iBatis or some kde lib?) Don't know. I ride KDE-3.5.8 here the list of installed packages: ~$ aptitude search libreoffice lobas | grep ^i i libreoffice-debian-menus i libreoffice-ure i libreoffice3 i libreoffice3-base i libreoffice3-calc i libreoffice3-draw i libreoffice3-en-us i libreoffice3-impress i libreoffice3-math i libreoffice3-writer i A lobasis3.3-base i lobasis3.3-binfilter i A lobasis3.3-calc i lobasis3.3-core01 i lobasis3.3-core02 i lobasis3.3-core03 i lobasis3.3-core04 i lobasis3.3-core05 i lobasis3.3-core06 i lobasis3.3-core07 i A lobasis3.3-draw i A lobasis3.3-en-US i A lobasis3.3-en-US-base i A lobasis3.3-en-US-calc i A lobasis3.3-en-US-help i A lobasis3.3-en-US-math i lobasis3.3-en-us-binfilter i A lobasis3.3-en-us-draw i A lobasis3.3-en-us-impress i A lobasis3.3-en-us-res i A lobasis3.3-en-us-writer i lobasis3.3-images i A lobasis3.3-impress i lobasis3.3-javafilter i lobasis3.3-kde-integration i A lobasis3.3-math i lobasis3.3-ooofonts i A lobasis3.3-writer And that ones remaining: ~$ aptitude search libreoffice lobas | grep ^p p lobasis3.3-extension-mediawiki- p lobasis3.3-extension-pdf-import p lobasis3.3-extension-presentati p lobasis3.3-extension-presenter- p lobasis3.3-extension-report-bui p lobasis3.3-gnome-integration p lobasis3.3-graphicfilter p lobasis3.3-ogltrans p lobasis3.3-ooolinguistic p lobasis3.3-pyuno p lobasis3.3-testtool p lobasis3.3-xsltfilter Regards, Scott Furry Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] QA Infrastructure
Hi Thorsten, *, Thorsten Behrens schrieb: as we start to ramp up more infrastructure, I'd like to make you think about what's crucially needed to do QA for LibreOffice 3.3. First of all, this is what we currently have: stretched * a LibreOffice technical list (I'd like to have devs QA discussion there): So do I, but I'd suggest to put the patch conversation on a different list - sort of patc...@libreoffice.org. * a bugtracker - bugs.freedesktop.org for the while (use * a wiki (well, soon ;)) * the testtool (similar to OpenOffice.org) /stretched +1 I'd prefer if we do the 3.3 release in a somewhat lightweight fashion, and add tools as we go (and decide that we need them) +1 I know that the OpenOffice.org QA project has things like QATrack, QUASTe, and TCM - but I wonder which of those pass the test of we really need it, and it's worth the effort to duplicate it/set it up. What do you think? I'll put here a short draft of my dreams if I think of an efficient QA :o)) I think of three states the software idally should pass: 1. The most recent developer build (nightly builds). 2. an alive release lets call it LibO - fresh which passed a quite short beta period for early adopters, experienced users, and new features greedy ones. 3. a mature release which has passed ~6 months fresh state. First point doesn't need additional comments 2. comment: fresh issues reported by fresh-users should get fixed as soon as possible and end in nightly builds after an issue has been fixed. 3. comment: mature issues can only be security issues and should also be aided by nightly builds each time an issue has been fixed. Additionally security fixes should be provided for a reasonable period in aspect of an office environment. The thought behind is: Bugs are relevant not by possibility to happen but by appearence. Therefore it might be a good idea to be as close as possible at users *real* experience. We get the closer to it the closer our response is to users anoyance. If we succeed doing this, we will get that users which are greedy hunting bugs. ;o)) Because the *possibility* of a bug's existence doesn't matter much, I think we shouldn't bother interested coworkers with boring and difficult to learn tools blocking their machine by runnig automated tests which never hit people's creativity to do strange things ;o)). And last one: The remaining dev time *after* fixing bugs is reserved for implementing new features ;o)) In short -- draft -- not mature Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Mailing list user preferences?
Hi Charles, *, sending a mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org shows the possible options, which is a feature of ezmlm. Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-07 9:49 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: I think it is not a good idea to burden mailinglist software with a full featured user preferences database. But i'd think about adding two more choices: - no mails # I'll send mails via nntp interface or from archive page therefore I only need unmoderated access. Oh, this one is already implemented.. *scratch* - no subject tags # I'm filtering by List-ID in folders where tags don't make sense and are wasted space. Everything more should be done by local software. One thing that computers do well is automation. Mailman provides a whole lot of user preference possibilities for every list it manages... I can't estimat the implications concerning high traffic/accounts on this.. What list software is being used now? I hope not the broken system (ezmlm) that OOo was using... aparently it is.. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibO beta deb packages causes freeze using pdf-export and several menu entries
Hi Scott, *, Scott Furry schrieb: On 07/10/10 07:08 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: [.. Issues PDF-Export, menu, LibO 3.3 beta ..] I ride KDE-3.5.8 here the list of installed packages: ~$ aptitude search libreoffice lobas | grep ^i And that ones remaining: ~$ aptitude search libreoffice lobas | grep ^p Gruß/regards Fredrich, It looks like you got all the LibO packages. I'm just wondering if there is some functionality provided for PDF conversion from another library. It may be the problem you are experiencing. Sorry I can't offer any more help. This was not a support request but a encountered someone else.. I'll bring that up on dev mailinglist. Thanks for giving attention. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer changed on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates
Hi Per, *, Per Eriksson schrieb: [..] I am not sure if Mozilla offer out-of-the-box updating for Firefox on Linux? You have to fetch the linux file from Mozilla and unpack it in a folder where you have write permissions. Call it, use it, update it, - be happy :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer changed on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Document Foundation - list archive - emails in clear
Hi Jean, *, Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: [.. clear text mailadresses in tdf mailarchive ..] To answer Scott's original question: It's not something that concerns me personally. My many email addresses are all over the internet, so having my address harvested from another list makes no difference. It's Your private way to handle this.. I get a zillion spam messages a day, almost all of which gmail filters out for me. I did some statistics for all of my emails last year: highest peak level was about 9000 in 60 days (150/day average) caused mostly by three (!) mailadresses. One of them was my OOo-mailinglist adress causing almost half of all spam. After switching this three ones (two of them were known addresses kontakt@, webmaster@) there stay about 600/60days (10/day average). Even if google offers a service for free (as free beer! ;o))) defending another service for free (all that bots out there) I think it is a good idea to stop feeding spam machine that easy. I'd apreciate The Document Foundation not to step in the footprints of callab.net whether in this affair nor in some others. :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer changed on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Document Foundation - list archive - emails in clear
Hi Goran, *, Goran Rakic schrieb: У пет, 08. 10 2010. у 08:56 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber пише: Many of the other lists that I subscribe to have the email addresses given as something like j...@ in the archives. However, the OOo archives have them in plain text. I believe this should be prevented. I just found in docs that there is a SPAMMODE option: http://mhonarc.org/MHonArc/doc/resources/spammode.html +1 I did raise the same objection about the OpenOffice.org mailing lists once before, but back than it was said it is CollabNet and that there is no such option. Hands off copying CollabNet's features! ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer changed on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] QA Infrastructure
Hi Nguyen Vu Hung, *, hope this is the correct appellation.. first of all: I'm not involved in Software development and neither in QA *therefore* I'm answering here. :o)) Nguyen Vu Hung schrieb: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de wrote: Thorsten Behrens schrieb: as we start to ramp up more infrastructure, I'd like to make you think about what's crucially needed to do QA for LibreOffice 3.3. First of all, this is what we currently have: stretched [..] * the testtool (similar to OpenOffice.org) /stretched Do you mean VCLTestool - used for automated testing in LibO? Do we need a (VCLTesttool-used) test server? and Do we need a build server like Java Huson? That would be a big help (for QA members) Shure? Maybe it's a great tool for developers but if it is a great tool for QA members isn't proven yet. [..] I know that the OpenOffice.org QA project has things like QATrack, QUASTe, and TCM - but I wonder which of those pass the test of we really need it, and it's worth the effort to duplicate it/set it up. What do you think? I'll put here a short draft of my dreams if I think of an efficient QA I think of three states the software idally should pass: 1. The most recent developer build (nightly builds). The build takes days, so I would like weekly buids. Even if actually reality. What I *like* were nightly builds! remember: It's a dream and I'm not a developer :o)) 2. an alive release lets call it LibO - fresh which passed a quite short beta period for early adopters, experienced users, and new features greedy ones. I thought our developers would work on git/svn branches so we have lots of builds (like that way Linux kernel hackers do) I freely admit: I don't understand what You are talking about.. All the branches can combined as a fresh realease (.i.e. unstable) Combined works on the branches those are targeted for official releases, we will have RC1, RC2... versions. As far as I see those RCs are made to ensure the release which will last long time (i.e. 6 months) to keep free of bugs. I can't see that anyone succeded that except microsoft. ;o)) I'd prefer to face reality of the (outer microsoft) world and have the RCs substituted by nightly builds with fixed bugs - even that ones appearing *after* releasing the last RC. This staging strategy will improve the quality of LibO - I hope. I am with You! :o)) 3. a mature release which has passed ~6 months fresh state. Question: How do us determine LibO's realease cycle. I want it to be as short as possible (6 months?) Fits that the requirements of an office environment? I'm not shure. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer changed on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Document Foundation - list archive - emails in clear
Hi Florian, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: Am 08.10.2010 um 10:13 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: I believe this should be prevented. I just found in docs that there a SPAMMODE option: http://mhonarc.org/MHonArc/doc/resources/spammode.html +1 Honestly, I disagree. Hiding mail addresses really doesn't help that much, I've good reasons to assume id does.. and to me, the disadvantages (like being unable to contact someone directly from the archives) are larger than the advantages you think it has. Meanwhile I use frequently changing oneway mailadresses especially on OpenOffice.org and (up to now) documentfoundation.org, because from OOo I had *exorbitantly* more spam than from any other mailaddress used in Mailinglists. As this list is available on gmane or http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/ which have reply to function, there is no point to feed the harvesters. I'm happy to switch if the majority wants that, +1 but honestly, it doesn't help a bit. It's simply worth NOTHING. got different experience. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Document Foundation - list archive - emails in clear
Hi Gianluca Turconi, *, Gianluca Turconi schrieb: [..] Therefore, I had to unsubscribe form all TDF lists, create a new address for these lists and then subscribe to them again. Woff... :( Too late! You missed the train. Your old (former good) mailadress is online - well prepared food for the next harvester coming around which now can grab two adresses from You ;o)) SNCR :o) [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Unsubscribe NOT working!!!
Hi Volker, *, Volker Heggemann schrieb: Hi Florian, same problem at my side. I couldn't get out of the digest list?! I don't know why? what was the link used for unsubscribing digest uses a link different from the one in the footer of each mail. Send a mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org to get more info. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE
Hi Larry, *, Larry Gusaas schrieb: Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it properly in the first place? for the others which want to read by nntp and don't worry to be subscribed. -- Just ignore it! :o)) Nowhere on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss or on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ does it indicate that you have to subscribe to the mailing list in order to post through Gmane. Yes, this might be a good idea. Meanwhile just subscribe in nomail mode discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org so - You are subscribed - don't get mails [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] I like the name LibreOffice
Hi Mirek, *, Mirek M. schrieb: Well, I'm a Czech and my native language is Czech. The problem I have with LibreOffice is that it's just hard to pronounce. I'm not very good at saying the French r, so I try to say LibreOffice with an English accent, which doesn't sound very good either. LibreOffice with a Czech accent sounds even worse. It's not necessarily bad, if the Name has some hurdles with pronunciation. As we see in this and other threads: this gets people in touch. ;o)) Finally there will be several flavors of pronunciation - and good moments if they meat each other! :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [SC] Steering Committee Info at the wiki
Hi Benjamin, *, Benjamin Horst schrieb: This is exactly why I suggested we look at multiple wiki engines before installing one and proceeding. ACL features of Foswiki make it easy to specify a separate set of pages or an individual page, and control who has edit access, view access, or no visibility of the page at all. Details: http://foswiki.org/System/AccessControl As far as I know there is some mechanism wikis can talk and exchange content. Do You know of that feature? I think changing the wiki machine later on if this comes up to be useful will not be that big deal. For the moment I think mediawiki is a good joice because - people are used to work with - its already set up and in use - there already technical knowledge is present to drive it waiting a long time with hands prepared to work also can be frustrating. [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] unsubscribe [was: Multilingualism...]
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-20 6:41 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: This line has been modified because there is a different way to unsubscribe from digest lists. We had a thread here complaining about digest users couldn't unsubscribe at all. ?? That makes no sense. Each list has it's *own* footer, right (if not, why?)? So each list should have the correct unsubscribe link at the bottom. Youre right *but* AFAIK the digest mails are a container of the mails sent during the day. And *those* single mails hold the footer of the original one posted. But probably I'm wrong with this because I never order digest mails. So maybe You can correct me :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Changed footer of listmails
Hi Barbara, *, Barbara Duprey schrieb: On 10/26/2010 1:31 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Hi TDF enthusiasts, I changed the footer for mails of this list. [..] I'd prefer having a wiki page containing a short 3 step guide summarizing that tipps and link there. If somebody would set up one would be a great thing. [..] I notice that the footer has gone back to implying that +help will accomplish the unsubscribe, rather than providing instructions -- this was fixed before, I'm not aware of that.. it's misleading. It would be best to provide both unsubscribe addresses and the help one: Email to discuss+unsubscr...@libreoffice.org to unsubscribe from the list Email to discuss+unsubscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org to unsubscribe from the list digest. Email to discuss+h...@libreoffice.org for general help information. too long! I had to fight for permission of four lines max. 80 chars each.. Or if that is regarded as making the footer too cumbersome, just point to the general help but without implying it will actually do the unsubscribe: Email to discuss+h...@libreoffice.org for help with list operations such as unsubscribing. How would You pack that in max. 80 chars? [..] The other footer info looks OK, though possibly the guideline information should be incorporated into our own support structure rather than referencing an outside source. That would allow tailoring it to reflect specific guidelines for our lists, if desired. Exactly that's what I asked for someone to realize in a wiki page, to link at instead. Would You like to do that? :o)) There is some effort going on about the whole issue of how to support users at their first point of contact, whatever that is, and I think your suggestion fits in that discussion very well. Thanks! my pleasure :o)) btw.: Do You or someone else have a link to a good mailinglist netiquette. Quoting ist just *one* aspect of writing good mails in a mailing list. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to the lists are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Changed footer of listmails
Hi Barbara, *, Barbara Duprey schrieb: On 10/26/2010 4:18 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Barbara Duprey schrieb: [..] I notice that the footer has gone back to implying that +help will accomplish the unsubscribe, rather than providing instructions -- this was fixed before, I'm not aware of that.. I can look up the discussion, but it was changed for a while (maybe only on the users list? think it was Florian...). O.K. I took that: Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org more clear this one? [..] How would You pack that in max. 80 chars? In the other discussion, it was mentioned that the longer lines were a problem because they wrapped inside the mailto, so I suggested starting the message with Email to as you've done here -- but from what you say they're not allowed to exceed 80 characters at all. 80 characters is a recommended limit which almost every known mail app won't wrap. [.. Link posting guidelines on a inner projekt page ..] Exactly that's what I asked for someone to realize in a wiki page, to link at instead. Would You like to do that? :o)) What I'm planning is to set up a discussion wiki for collaboration on what would most likely become a Support page that contained, or if necessary linked to, all the information we'd like people to consider when they're looking for help -- use of FAQs, forums, mailing lists, archives, issue trackers, etc. If this were properly organized, it could be referenced by, say, moderators receiving posts from unsubscribed users. I'm trying to come up with a strawman for the structure to get the ball rolling. There is some effort going on about the whole issue of how to support users at their first point of contact, whatever that is, and I think your suggestion fits in that discussion very well. Thanks! That's a great idea.. btw.: Do You or someone else have a link to a good mailinglist netiquette. Quoting ist just *one* aspect of writing good mails in a mailing list. How about www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.htm? Gives me: Error No matches to your request were found. Possible causes * Incorrect URL. Check spelling and try again. * Link does not exist. Use the browser's back button to return to the referring page. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Ansprechpartner / contact person for the PrOOo-Box german language best Office Suite ever and more on CD/DVD http://prooo-box.org -- footer updated on 2010-10-07 -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] document foundation wiki issues ...
Hi Jonathan, *, Jonathan Aquilina schrieb: Random thought here. im willing to donate some webspace to a wordpress setup for the project. i have experience in making the site look less like a blog and more like a proper website and there are some really killer themes available for wordpress. The wiki is intended to be a pool of information to be completed by everybody rather than the projects website. would you guys be interested in migrating away from a wiki. No, never ;o)) the way i see it the problem with a wiki is that anyone from the site and possibly even spammers can edit the page be it contributors or not. at least with wordpress you just have a list of users who have permissions to edit the site, as well as those who can just post and comment etc. what do you all think? The Website is already work in progress, coming up soon and realized through a CMS which covers all your points and more ;o)). [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice bits ...
Hi Italo, *, Italo Vignoli schrieb: Bruce Byfield wrote: [.. intersting question ..] Copying to the marketing@ and discuss@ mailing lists. Not a good idea. On each of that lists users will miss (interesting) answers, they can only find fiddling around with several lists. In case of casual reply to all posters there will be to check double content for uniqe postings. It'd probably be a good idea to send an anounce mail to that lists with a link to a suitable archived thread of this list. Example: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg02916.html [.. interesting answer :o)) ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own LibreOfficeFont
Hi Florian, *, Florian Reisinger schrieb: This is the right link: http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612Kind regards I get: Sign In http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own LibreOfficeFont
Hi Mateusz, *, Mateusz Zasuwik schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: I get: Sign In http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction Try http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612 ;) works better! Thanks :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi Craig, *, Craig A. Eddy schrieb: On 11/20/2010 07:59 AM, Stefan Weigel wrote: Am 20.11.2010 15:51, schrieb Craig A. Eddy: there is no obvious way to start to install the files. Dependencies for each .deb have to be met, but nothing indicates the order with which to install them. When dealing with 52 .deb files it's like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle where all distinguishing marks have been filed off. It would be much easier if there were a single meta-package that would act as the start point. Even if knowing how to proceed as mentioned by Stefan, I support your Request. Axel Reimer set up such a meta-package for our (german) PrOOo-Box approach, which made it by far easier to install and to *deinstall* all related packages. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] changed footers of all documentfoundation and libreoffice.org mailing lists
Hi all, I changed the footers of all documentfoundation.org and libreoffice.org mailinglists according to this one. For I did so by script, please report if you notice funny things ;o)). I skipped the posting guidelines line because it links to an external target. Within a few days I will put a link to an internal page containing posting guidelines - maybe existing then or later ;o)) After fixing some issues concerning utf-8 char handling the native lang projects list footers will have translated footers, if there a people doing so. The footers may contain four lines at maximum 80 chars each. You may already discuss and prepare a footer. I will ask for it when we are ready to build in. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 11/19/2010 7:16 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Charles Marcus schrieb: I'd really like to see an email support list dedicated solely to questions in the nature of I know how to do this in Excel/Word/Powerpoint, but how do I do it on Calc/Writer/Impress?... No, not a mailinglist for that. A mailing list is a quite high hurdle to participate the question - answer mechanism.. I'd rather like to see this in a FAQ - perhaps in a dedicated area or tagged with MSO relation. An FAQ is a good idea, and could quickly be built as a result of questions/answers from the mail list - so if this is done, I'd suggest adding a simple way to ask a question from the FAQ if the user cannot find an answer - that question would then be posted to the users list, and once it is answered, the answer could easily be added to the FAQ... I agree, this is the Way to go. A No answer found? Ask a Question button working that way is a very interesting Idea. There is a similar thing in launchpad - even in a different context. Random example: https://launchpad.net/kdocker look at the right Navbar Ask a question. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Version Numbers?
Hi Florian Reisinger, *, This mail arrived completely screwed up! I'm sure no one made the effort to read it. Florian Reisinger schrieb: [.. screwed content ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: [.. depency question ..] Nope. Really, I expect anybody having root on a Debian-based system to know dpkg. Seriously. So you'd recommend everybody just running a desktop machine and not wanting to get a full featured serveradmin to abhore debian? It would be much easier if there were a single meta-package that would act as the start point. Failing that, at least an ordered list that an http://packages.debian.org/libreoffice FTR. I can't see this hint an useful answer to the OP's question regarding his aparent debian knowledge. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: If I may throw in my 2c. Welcome! :o)) As a part of the official LibreOffice Drupal website development we will be creating a QA area where there are standard questions and answers, but it will also give people the opportunity to ask their own questions That sounds good. and have them answered quickly by anyone else on the website at the time. that's a to small base of present knowledge. In addition to this we will be setting up support accounts on all of the major social networks. I'm quite shure, it is not a good idea to split forces and know how that way. There should be a common place where technical support should happen. Technical issues should be remembered not only by a presentation platform but also by some kind of common brain. Answers should be generated with common knowledge in their back. To many places get that find the question on your question effect, which I personally dislike much. IMHO the process of subscribing, confirming, asking the question, getting relies then unsubscribing seems a little much for an end user to ask a simple question. That's what at least I never did think of. Who claimed that? [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: René Engelhard schrieb: Nope. Really, I expect anybody having root on a Debian-based system to know dpkg. Seriously. [..] You were responding *my* mail not referring to my contents. Please take care for clear communication. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:15:25PM +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: So you'd recommend everybody just running a desktop machine and not wanting to get a full featured serveradmin to abhore debian? No, I want desktop users to know how to use their system. And if they also administer it they should know basics about dpkg. http://packages.debian.org/libreoffice FTR. I can't see this hint an useful answer to the OP's question regarding his aparent debian knowledge. True, but those are debs he can install if he used squeeze or sid :) From a geeks point of view You are right. But I'm shure that it is not a good idea to make all people out there geeks before using a computer or using office software ;o)). So I heavily hope, that LibreOffice will leave it's past behind and will grow from a developer driven software to a community driven one. :o))) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Request: Installation Instructions
Hi René, *, René Engelhard schrieb: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 07:34:13PM +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: From a geeks point of view You are right. But I'm shure that it is not a good idea to make all people out there geeks before using a computer or using office software ;o)). Ah, so we should let people not care about their PCs, how to use it, keep it safe etc. and thus affecting all, spreading viruses, spam and having botnets active? No, it's never a good idea to replace one evel with another one and I can't remember having advocated that. :o)) So I heavily hope, that LibreOffice will leave it's past behind and will grow from a developer driven software to a community driven one. What the hell does that have to do with people using PCs getting their basics straight? Correctly, it doesn't. Yes, You are right. It was the attitude carried by Your advice which made me writing that statement. I missed the respect regarding the OP's work, deciding to install Libreoffice, getting wired, and *writing a report* about that. We definitly *want* that information. (Otherwise I agree with you, we can argue about marketing and I agree for some deeper features you need docs, but come on, are you also going to tell people on how to use their mouse?) Using a mouse (I learned that 36 years old in five minutes) and installing deb based software *not hold by a repo*, are incomparably different levels of technical practice :o)). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Community driven Project (was:Request: Installation Instructions)
Hi Italo, *, Italo Vignoli schrieb: [..] The fact that I am technically illiterate (and I like being so) does not make me a worse user, or one with less rights. Communities around the world have made OOo a better product because they have cared about users, although the project was clearly driven by developers not able to show any respect for users (and where the community was not there the project has been marginally successful). TDF should not reproduce the same mistakes. The success of the project cannot be built on a group prevailing on others. There is nothing to add to that statement. And You are not alone achiving this! ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Communication in Mailinglist
Hi Christian Lohmaier, *, Christian Lohmaier schrieb: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Gmail very capable for mailing lists. Except for the very one drawback you just demonstrated: When changing the subject, gmail will break the thread (start a new one) as it will remove the references from the reply. Can't confirm. References are O.K. here. So it's an accidently damage or a gmail ./. gmail prob (If I interpreted headers well). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: A proposal for effective, volunteer-friendly user support in LibreOffice
Hi Marco, *, M. Fioretti schrieb: [..] as I already said, more than promoting any support mode as the only one, my proposal is more limited to NOT making useless/embarassing the email mode. Right now, the only other proposals that come to my mind to make support as efficient as possible are: - add some problem category field to the form I mention in my article (e.g. My problem is: 1) format compatibility, 2) configuration, 3 macros) - instead of sending an email, that form inside LibO may just query the search engine of the Drupal website. .. and offer one more possibility?: No satisfying answer found? - Ask a question! which is sent to any resource, choosen to give useful answers, in a dedicated fashion and with a dedicated way to reach the requesting person. That might be an instant Email or confirm message containing links to (future) results or emails anouncing each answer by link to a public place - *not with answer inside* to not provocate an unhelpfull reply! my 2¢ Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: A better idea for a download package.
Hi Robert, *, Robert Derman schrieb: [.. big snip ..] P.S. I hope we can find a company or group of volunteers that can make an LO package available on disk. Regarding ISO-files for burning disks: good news for You. We offered such ISO files for german language OpenOffice.org installer, templates, extentions, and additional software to equip an office box. We will also release an international/english version, but some time is needed to set this up. I think it should be possible to make it available for no more than 5 US dollars or equivalent including shipping. For those folks with NO internet connection, it would be best if we could get the disk into retail channels. For these people, if a software program is not available at retail, then it simply doesn't exist. With such an ISO probably You might be distributor and retailer of that disk for Your region? To get an impression of our box You can grab the current DVD iso file here (german, Bittorrent only): http://torrent.projects.ooodev.org:6969/torrents/LibreOffice_3.3.0-1_DVD_snapshot-20101112-22.25.13_libreoffice-box_allplatforms_libreofice-box_de.iso.torrent?info_hash=47dd3235a48b67860fe91b44ea7e0b83f925796f If You aren't afraid of german, download it, burn it (not as file, but by burn image.. ) and have a look. We built in a more easy to use windows installer realized through an on disk k-meleon browser. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] accessibility mailing list
Hi Sigrid, *, Thanks for clarification.. Sigrid Carrera schrieb: 2010/11/29 Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de might be I don't understand accesibility well.. yes, perhaps. Accessibility refers to people who have some disabilities, like bad eyesight, so you need a screen reader to learn about the content of a website or a document. O.K. then I was on the wrong track. I assumed things regarding (bad) user experience which isn't wrong in this context but a different topic. I didn't get disabilities well. Florian Effenberger schrieb: [..] following large mail threads not related to that topic, can be a problem - so a dedicated list indeed might make sense. This can be a problem for whomever. It's only solution is to get Your tools and Your communication partners help You achieving that task. This can be shurely be demanded by someone willing tho help development. Someone looking for advice is a completely different story and should be handled as such. Depending on those people's disability, they can see this almost as an personal attack (I remember those threads on the users list quite well...) Got it - thanks. :o)) So concerns for a seperate mailinglist are resolved. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why is LO/OOo so slow loading a spreadsheet?
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: Another topic ignored? Maybe a mailing list isn't the right tool... Maybe? It's good and recommended practice in mailinglists only to answer, if knowing an answer. Many search engine hits I found, show: this isn't on forums. ;o)) Happy if not having to read one. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why is LO/OOo so slow loading a spreadsheet?
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: Maybe the right list would help. Try the users list, [hidden email] or ask the developers, [hidden email] . That is exactly my point. In a forum,anyone could answer. wrong. anyone *which is reading* - same thing in a mailinglist. :o)) [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: deb installer - have to manually modify link
Hi Marc, *, Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2010-12-06 04:48, Rainer M Krug a écrit : [..] Would it be possible to provide one link to the .deb and on to the rpm on the download page? I agree. I use the RPM version and it works quite well for this, but it would also be nice to put a Linux DEB download button(s) or make some other type of arrangements till the www.test.libreoffice.org site goes live. The download site as it stands is probably frustrating a lot of users who are interested in helping out. Even our own DEB members are frustrated over this situation. Do You know anything about Websitestatus and sheduled switch? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] deb installer - have to manually modify link
Hi Stefan, *, Stefan Weigel schrieb: Am 06.12.2010 12:21, schrieb Sebastian Spaeth: On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 11:52:25 +0100, Stefan Weigel wrote: Try the other download page http://www.test.libreoffice.org/download/ I get: Page not found Sorry, it seems you were trying to access a page that doesn't exist. BTW, any chance to sqitch to to that very soon? It shouldn't hard to replicate the static content that we have there right now and it would modifying/improving the content so much easier... I wonder whether it will be published at all. I think we should publish right now as is and complete under traffic, considering a website never beeing perfect. :o)) Well, someone just changed http://www.test.libreoffice.org/download/ and made downloading again very inconvenient. The convenient script can still be found here http://s132649167.online.de/LibO_test/sw_download.php There is also one more draft here: http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/ Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*
Hi David, *, David Nelson schrieb: [.. libreoffice.org website lauch delay issues ..] We're going to get this site on the road really quickly now. That are good news! :o)) Thanks for feeding the engine with gasoline. :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?
Hi RGB ES, *, RGB ES schrieb: It is clear you cannot please everyone: the list of problems you see on forums is almost the same list of problems I usually see on mailing lists... Every communication system have the same merits and defects of the people using it. Nothing more, nothing less. The system can only add tools to easy the work of people using it, Good words.. and the tools you have on forums are for sure more useful that the tools available on mailing lists. What the hell does You make thinking that? They are different - yes but more useful? It again depends on who does what! Example search tool: I personally like to search my locally archived mails (sometimes thousands in one archive) with tools I'm familiar with - sometimes with grep. So grep is more useful than a very limited search on some forum? Nope! It's more useful for *me* beeing familiar with it. And obviously this is one of the strong side of mailinglists: Everyone is free to choose his own means organazing and reading the mails. Not only local means but also reading and writing via nntp-client (gmane), listarchive (mail-archive.com) even in a forum-like UI (nabble). The content is build by the people. Exactly. And there is a point I didn't read up to now (or missed it): Regardless how organized: The success of every volunteer driven support offer is not only low threshold accessibility for people needing help, but also enough meat for the people giving support! That is not only a high rate of questions but also a certain level of knowlage available for themselves! And I know of many of those having that necessary level of knowlegde in one or more areas of LO/OOo which declaired they never will join a forum. That doesn't mean a forum is a evel thing at all. But assumed the above condition is true, it will never be a support offer representing all available knowledge. Admittedly it can complete the support chain - as did the german ooo-forum I know from telling. No clue about the international one. I think the OOo community forum are a good example of how forums can be really useful: lots of difficult problems are solved there and all the volunteers have good knowledge of what they are talking about. Forums are noisy only when moderators do not do they work (move/merge/split threads...). Of course there are a lot of noisy forums out there, but that's a problem with the people, not with the system ;) again - good words ;o)) btw please consider http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html here: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.5 for more clear and efficient communication. :o)) [.. recycled TOFU ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?
Hi Charles, *, I should never write mails before having the second cup of coffee. Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-01-17 7:50 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: [..] What the hell does You make thinking that? They are different - yes but more useful? It again depends on who does what! I'm really becoming more and more dismayed at all of the infighting going on on these lists - it gives me pause that LibO may not be able Oh, sorry You are totally right! My apologies. to survive, if those holding the reins right now are unable or unwilling to make some changes that will smooth the way for those wanting to contribute, without fear that their efforts will all be for naught. I'll care for more civilized wording in future. Case in point - Michael's work on Drupal would have provided integrated mail list forums nabble so that any user could use their tool of choice, and all would be interconnected, not isolated, making these silly chest-thumping arguments about which tool is better totally moot. Thanks for pointing out. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] An Interesting Mockup
Hi Zaphod, *, Zaphod Feeblejocks schrieb: [.. side oriented toolbar ..] Granted, the current LibO/OOo interface looks dated, but people know their way round it - at least the know how to find the things they use. Some things are far too clumsy (e.g. mail- merging). A sudden change would drive people (well, me) back over to OOo. Let's reach a proper concensus. +1 Now that most screens are wide screen A side bar based UI is the best usage of space. Fair point - but give users the option. I strongly second this! [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi community, a new year has started - at least for some of us, and I'll take a new attempt of finishing the footers of the List emails. We decided to have an additional line containing a link to a project wikipage providing posting guidelines like netiquette/quoting and other helpful informaition. Some of the valued readers of my former mails in this matter intended to setup such a page. There is already one from the german language project: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de As I'm not familiar with naming conventions of the wikipages it would help just to have the URL this page's place corresponding to the obove mentioned german one. Can someone provide help with this? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] relocating mailing lists at libreoffice.org?
Hi Florian, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: [..relocating Mailadresses..] There are two options for this issue: a.) We could use @libreoffice.net or some other domain ending (TLD) for those e-mail addresses b.) We move the mailing lists @libreoffice.org to some subdomain (like l...@libreoffice.org = l...@global.libreoffice.org) Thoughts on that? What about b.) with 1) @project.libreoffice.org - for all nonpersonal mail addresses i.e. Mailinglists, multirecipients, .. 2) @libreoffice.org - for officers and highload merits and maybe 3) @community.libreoffice.org - for the adicts (generous availability) so the 3) ones give some aahhhs and ooohhs noticing a 2) one.. similar *but not equal* to the 2char@openoffice.org adresses. ;o)) What I like on Ubuntu is that signing the Code of conduct. You have to sign the document with your gpg key. This way some going through baptism of fire would be the price for the mail address. You asked for it ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi Fabián, *, Fabián Rodríguez schrieb: On 11-01-17 02:56 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: [.. footer ..] There is already one from the german language project: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de As I'm not familiar with naming conventions of the wikipages it would help just to have the URL this page's place corresponding to the obove mentioned german one. Can someone provide help with this? Hello Friedrich, This page should provide information on how to make yours compliant with the multilingual conventions for the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki Thanks Fabián, for the Link. Maybe there will be a helpful mind reading it and at least provide me with the URL pointing the page's right place if it existed. I'd put in that line even if the page wasn't completed yet. So maybe the motivation to fill it with useful content might rise. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi Jonathan, *, Jonathan Aquilina schrieb: On 01/17/2011 11:30 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: 2011/1/16 Friedrich Strohmaierdamokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Le Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:23:02 +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de a écrit : Olivier Hallot schrieb: [..] Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org +1, I would even add the following: @libreoffice.org are only available for official contributors and even they have to request it (I don't exactly see the automatic need for, say, a code contributor to have such an address). I've a different view whom beeing part of the community: What's about one passing the (upcoming) DVD to his neighbour plus giving him first support but never appearing in the official contributing system here? [..] So to me there are also advocates and promoters who are very happy without an email address or a special status. Friedrich may i add that all i have see on other FOSS projects is that mails are given to big time developers to the project, not users or fans of a given project. All is a big word here ;o)). I was Member of one of the largest FOSS communities (think of three O two upper case, lower case the last) for many (some 7 or 8) years, where it was obligatory to get a mailadress just to have an account for some (by far not all) community resources (issuetracker). So You did oversee at least one.. And the best: there was no way to get rid of it! No way to delete the account :o)). Seriously I think in respect of our (the successor of the above) project size we have to go our own way. And I continue thinking it wasn't to bad to get a member that easy. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi @ll, If You think, it beeing a good thing to have a posting guidelines pointer in the footer, then I'll be glad to put it in there for all active Mailinglists. What I need is an URL within the project wiki- or webpages to point at. There already is a german one to have an ipression what I'm thinking of. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mailinglists/Netiquette/de Bottom post for completeness. Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: Fabián Rodríguez schrieb: [..] This page should provide information on how to make yours compliant with the multilingual conventions for the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki Thanks Fabián, for the Link. Maybe there will be a helpful mind reading it and at least provide me with the URL pointing the page's right place if it existed. I'd put in that line even if the page wasn't completed yet. So maybe the motivation to fill it with useful content might rise. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New year - new listmailfooter
Hi Andrea, *, Andrea Pescetti schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: If You think, it beeing a good thing to have a posting guidelines pointer in the footer, then I'll be glad to put it in there for all active Mailinglists. I agree it's a good thing to have it, and I suggest to seize this opportunity to get rid of the eternity tagline if possible, in favor of a less flamboyant formulation. It's not flamboyant, but lyric! :o)) But indeed it's on the agenda, too (assuming that more votes against it represent a mayority of opinion rather than higher power of naggers). ;o)). But as required I need the URL for the right place of netiquette information, before starting operation. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Best time for Conference Calls
Hi Michael, *, Michael Wheatland schrieb: I thought I would put forward a view regarding the best time for conference calls being held world wide. The current situation regarding the conference calls is such that the people situated in South-East Asia and Australia need to be awake at 3-4AM to attend the calls. As I assume it to be common sense, confcalls not beeing the way to get community wide decisions. What about building local/timezone based groups holding conf calls at a time convenient to their members? Afterwards sharing the results on the mailing lists where people can read them at any convenient moment? Might I suggest That we move the times earlier in the day to around 1200-1400 GMT. http://www.wheatland.com.au/sites/default/files/files/BestTimeCalling.PNG As far as I can see this would exclude the least number of people around the world from attending the calls. Where is the timezone nobody would be excluded? What do others think? See above. Another fact to consider: many people are excluded simply by not beeing capable to follow nor participate a spoken english coversation at telephone but can do so writing english or persoally present. My conclusion: Conf calls can complete the daily community work but should not be a in any way main part of it. Thanks, my pleasure :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Need for more compound words for spellcheck dictionary.
Hi Robert, *, I'm not very deep involved in spellchecking, but nevertheless trying a shot.. Robert Derman schrieb: RGB ES wrote: AFAIK, LibO dictionaries are the same dictionaries from OOo. If you have a custom dictionary where you added the words you miss, you can import (I mean, copy to the right location) that dictionary into LibO user profile. See here for more details about the user profile: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile 2011/2/20 Robert Derman robert.der...@pressenter.com : One of the reasons, perhaps the main reason I have not upgraded to LO from OpenOffice 3.1 yet is that I dread having to go through the process of adding over a thousand compound words to the spellcheck dictionary. This dictionary has almost NO compound words in it! Does anyone know if this problem has been addressed with LO 3.3. I am using the U.S. English version. If this severe shortcoming has not yet been addressed yet, I think we should do so before version 3.4. If I remember well german, dictionary changed to hunspell dictionary engine for that reason. German and many more languages' words are compound words in a very wide range so that problem arose from beginning. Not shure what spellchecking engine is used for english languages spellchecking - I guess it's aspell which has poor support for compound words. But all guessed. Not enough insight in that topic. [.. impact of poor spellchecking ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New project list
Hi Sophie, *, Sophie Gautier schrieb: In order to better coordinate the work between the different language projects we have settled a new list: proje...@libreoffice.org: [..] please subscribe to this list by sending a mail to: projects+subscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org shure You wanted to recommend subscription of digest mode for general purpose? I'll add two more ways to subscribe: # get normal list mails projects+subscr...@libreoffice.org # get no mails but be able to send from gmane or nabble: projects+subscribe-nom...@libreoffice.org # get a summary of the basic commands (except normal subscription =bug?) projects+h...@libreoffice.org Archives of the list are here: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/projects/ http://www.mail-archive.com/projects@libreoffice.org/ Gmane is pending. Thanks! dito ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 03/09/2011 02:07 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: 1. Moderation via e-mail is not comfortable. It especially requires one password shared among all moderators, which is inconvenient. Why is this inconvenient? Shared password *never* is a good idea. You don't know, where they are and if You have to change the moderaters group - i.e. excluding some - for any reason, the change of password is obligatory and affects all active moderators. That's definitely inconvenient not only for the list admin. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Mail List issues
Hi Marco, *, M. Fioretti schrieb: On Wed, Mar 09, 2011 15:16:35 PM +0100, Christian Lohmaier (lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com) wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:05 AM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why are unsubscribed posts even allowed? It would seem that folks would have learned from the OOo list history. Excuse me? What is wrong with allowing non-subscribers messages? And what would you have learned from OOo list history? Christian, NoOp refers, I think, to what I summarized in this post last November, just to not rewrite it every time these discussions come up: http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/ please note that I explicitly acknowledge in that page that it is unavoidable that such a support list must accept (after moderation) even messages from unsubscribed users. So (in this case) I agree with you that non-subscribers messages must pass. Which in my opinion is managed quite well with the moderaters work. This said, the OOo list history is there. What may be learned from it is up to the reader. And, of course, what can actually be done today by LibO to not repeat those particular mistakes depends on the available infrastructure. I read Your page (second time :o))) and second what You wrote. One solution could be: For each mail sent to the list from a not subscribed user send a automtically generated answer to his mailadress containing the already generated search hash for http://www.mail-archive.com. So no volunteer is bothered to even think about any subscription issues and the once in his life asking member will be provided with the answers. Already done: Each message sent to any of our public lists already has such a header. This is the one of Your post I'm replying to: Archived-At: http://go.mail-archive.com/RjF-au8F7oa5W9Jc7Z9f2S2YwhA= No clue how much work implementing such thing. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Florian, NoOp, *, Florian Effenberger schrieb: NoOp wrote on 2011-03-10 06.10: [..] If you have a good proposal, let me know. We, however, tried every solution, and mlmmj seemed best. +1 What we, and that's where I agree with you, need is some web interface that helps users in managing their subscriptions. I won't worry about that, as long as it ist *not* obligatory! One of the big advantages of the mail way of managing mailing list (un-)subscriptions is *not* to have one more account anywhere around. [..] Perhaps it is because by the time the reach point of unsubscribing to the list(s) that they don't want to read? Don't know, but if the unsubscribe/subscribe information were posted on the website mail list area maybe they could instead be referred to that instead of some special email? I wait for that link since January! No one was able to provide me with it up to now! see: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg04585.html [..] How about tagging moderated messages so that subscribed users know that the post is from a unsubscribed poster and has been forwarded by a moderator? It's rather simple: just as a [Moderated] tag to the subject of the message. As said, we would have to iplement that ourselves. So, if there's a volunteer, willing to work on the mlmmj source code, I am happy install a patch. Sadly, no mailing list system I know of provides that, but it would indeed be a great feature. See my mail to Marco: http://go.mail-archive.com/RjF-au8F7oa5W9Jc7Z9f2S2YwhA= In short saying: send autgenerated mail to nonsubscriber pointing to the archived thread of his question. Then if the mandate is to allow unsubscribed posts, *please* identify the post as such with a [Moderated] tag in the subject. As you may/or may not have witnessed on the OOo list over the past 5 years or so, this issue has been a subject of contention that raises it's ugly head at least once a month. The general consensus was to allow unsubscribed posters; the key problem was/is that there was/is no easy way to know if the post came from such. As Marko says in his Blog: don't bother valuable volunteers with that question at all. So folks send off a reply only to be told later that the time they took to respond fell on deaf ears because the OP was from someone not subscribed to the list. They then have to decide whether they wish to reforward their response to the Unsub, or just move on. I agree that this would be helpful, it just has to be developed, as no mailing list manager provides it out of the box. My take would be, btw, to add the information to the message body, in order to not break threading with a modified subject. Again, if someone wants to come up with a patch that does it, you're welcome! See http://mlmmj.org/bugs/bug.php?id=20 This from my point of view is one solution even if not my favorite. [..] Is it a limitation for mlmmj, or can the instructions that are received in the email be posted on the website? See above. I'm waiting just for the link - no matter whether alive or not - since weeks. [..] In a nutshell: Four things can help, and if someone works on them, that would be welcome 1. A website explaining the unsubscription mechanism 2. A web interface for moderators and users of the lists 3. A patch to tag moderated messages 4. A patch to improve the unsubscription mechanism, so that unsubscribe always unsubscribes you from everything, as long as you just have one type of list subscription 5. A mechanism informing not subscribed people, how to find the anwers themselves. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-10 8:09 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: The one situation where unsubscribing is difficult is when the reply asking for confirmation to unsubscribe is flagged as spam and thus not sorted to the user's inbox, but then again that's not the fault of the list-management. So change the default behavior... Make the confirmation email just that - a confirmation that an unsubscribe request has been made, and if they don't cancel the request within - what, 12? 24? hours, then the unsubscribe request is honored. Not a really good idea in my opinion, because anyone can unsubscribe You! In worst case, this enables the possibility of an unsubscription war. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-11 9:52 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Charles Marcus schrieb: So change the footer to something like: Unsubscribe: E-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org List Help: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** minor change of line 2: I'd like rather: List Help: visit http://nice-url.libreoffice.org Fine with me... Uff! :o)) If some day someone provides me with http://nice-url.libreoffice.org I'll go and change footers as avised since january. I'm confused... you're ok with making the change, but won't do so until the list help is converted from the *current* email format to a web page? That doesn't make sense - these are two separate issues... if you can make the change, please do so, then once a web page help is created, you can change line 2 to the web link... You're right 2 seperate things. But for me: 2 times start action, which I don't like. It's nearly double work. My offer is to sit down and do the work *once* if all is fine. There is a big agenda waiting. You might remember: We're working on setting up the DVD environment. Of course, each list should have the correct unsub link in its footer. like it's already the case with the this-list+help and is also the case in the mail sent to this-list+h...@lang.domain.tld That's a link to the *help* email... To unsubscribe from the digest of this list send a message to: [..] /reply note: clickable Link!! That brings up a new *email* message... indeed. I'm talking about a link that, with one click, takes you to a *web* page that simply says something like You have been unsubscribed from this-list - if this was in error, click 'here' to resubscribe. Ah, didn't get that - but I still prefer: click here to confirm! ;o)) This is how many, many unsub links work... Now got it. As Florian wrote: isn't implemented yet. Hey... in fact, many unsub links in the email footer itself takes you to a secure confirmation *web page*, where you can then click the 'Yes, really unsub me now!' button... I like that idea much better now that I think of it... ditto There really is no reasonable, rational argument against adding this one liner to the footer. Your right - it's waiting since weeks ;o)) but I share Christian's concerns, that changing the first line causes as much trouble as it avoids. I have seen no - ZERO - reasonable explanation as to how this causes *more* trouble... please reiterate... O.K.: All subscribers not subscribed for normal mail will get trouble. recall: no universal unsubscribe for whatever subscription available. I'll bet making these three changes will resolve at least half of the problems people have, if not more. Guess: Lost!! ;o)) Not at all... I win this one hands down... With all requirements satisfied - maybe. :o)). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mail List issues
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-11 4:16 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: I have seen no - ZERO - reasonable explanation as to how this causes *more* trouble... please reiterate... O.K.: All subscribers not subscribed for normal mail will get trouble. recall: no universal unsubscribe for whatever subscription available. Eh? There are only two, right? Normal and Digest. No, it's three: nomail also. Admittedly the latter one won't cause problems because no one will be nagged by unwanted mails. And each list will have its own unsubscribe link... So, for the normal list: Unsubscribe: E-mail to list+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org and for the digest: Unsubscribe: E-mail to list-digest+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org I don't see the problem... Eeach mail of the digest contains the normal unsubscribe link which, if read at all, causes confusion. There could be the valid one at the end of each digest - only read by those who won't have/make troubles at all. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images (german version already started) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] How to pronounce the name (again, sorry)
Hi Stefan, Samphan, *, Stefan Weigel schrieb: Am 27.03.2011 08:22, schrieb Samphan Raruenrom: I found this page http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/how-do-you-prono unce-libreoffice/ that link to Google translate to provide the (official?) pronouncement. I don´t think, that this is official in sense of approved by TDF or the TDF community. http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|LibreOffice This sounds odd to me, personally. to me as well.. The following sounds almost like the one I am used to: http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|LiebreOffice my favorite: http://translate.google.com/#fr|de|LiebreOffice which I assume is most close to the intended marriage between the french libre and the english office in my opinion. I'm quite surprised with it. I thought it is ˈlɪbə as in liberty orlbr as in http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vers+libre So actually it is ˈliːbreɪ as in http://es.thefreedictionary.com/libre , right? Yes, I would agree. Quite close I think. It would be nice if someone could provide an official pronouncement sound file on the LibreOffice website (and phonetic, for the literate). I think this is kind of good Idea.. I am not sure, if there is really a need for an official pronunciation. This is a free project. Every participant is free to pronounce it the way she/he likes. For me, there is nothing wrong with different pronunciation by people with different native tongue. IMO, http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/how-do-you-pronounce-libreoffice/ should be changed, in order to express that ther is no wrong or right. I'd rather think of a *proposal* file which has been approved by simple voting on this list. I agree there should not be any official pressure of pronunciaton, but I think it couldn't harm to have a proposal sound file for those who look for advice or - in this case - look for a way writing LibreOffice in their native language at all. I think overruling things and help to find a consensus to understand each other must not be mistaken. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi all, there were several requests regarding the correct pronunciation of LibreOffice. The name LibreOffice was choosen by minds mainly from roman/german language area and of course there are no relevant pronunciation issues for those. But there are sometimes heavy ones for minds of other language areas. Some people - mainly from the first category - propose to pronounce deliberately not aware there are severe problems to even catch the idea how to do so. So I start this thread in the hope to get a situation satisfying a wide range of community members. ;o)) My proposal: lets collect proposals for soundfiles pronouncing LibreOffice and have a simple voting for the one we point to, if people ask. This can be Files created by community members or some found in the internet. The first may be preferable due to license issues. This one I estimate quite close on how it appears to the minds of the founders (Don't mind orthography or braindead translation): http://translate.google.com/#de|de|LiebreOffice more proposals? comments? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi all, Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: [..] My proposal: lets collect proposals for soundfiles pronouncing LibreOffice and have a simple voting for the one we point to, if people ask. This can be Files created by community members or some found in the internet. The first may be preferable due to license issues. Here You can hear me saying LibreOffice: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/e/e2/Libreoffice_ger-tongue_fs.mp3 ;o)) [..] more proposals? comments? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: How to pronounce the name (again, sorry)
Hi Charles, *, Charles Marcus schrieb: Can we please stop with all of this nonsense about how to pronounce the name? Your approach is valid, it's however strongly off-topic in this list. You might post it at r...@documentfoundation.org where it is highly appreciated! Subscribe by issuing a mail to rant+subscr...@documentfoundation.org get more info by issuing a mail to rant+h...@documentfoundation.org You can post without subscription, please consider some delay due to moderating Your post then. :o)) Gruß -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Get and appove: recommended Soundfile pronouncing LibreOffice
Hi Henri, *, M Henri Day schrieb: 2011/4/1 Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:26 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/1 dionysien jean-francois.bour...@univ-paris8.fr [..] The component words of LibreOffice, though quite common international words, have already diverging pronounciations wordwide. :o)) [..] As the same time, the concerns of posters who wonder how it can be pronounced in their respective languages should not be ignored. Exactly what made me step in. [..] Friedrich's German-lnguage version is a good example nitpick Oh, it is not German language :-) it is the french/english version spoken by a German/nitpick I just wanted to give a quick answer on a simple question. The file at least gives an idea of what was in the minds creating the name. Thanks for your nitpicking, Christian ; were I to return the favour I should point out that Friedrich's file was an example of a German-language pronunciation of a French word followed by an English one. In any event, as I hope I made clear in my previous posting, I feel that more of the same (*mutatis mutandi*, of course) would be helpful to those in doubt as to how to the term might be pronounced in their respective languages +1 I rethink my proposal for a recommended version as long as we don't leave alone those in doubt. *Gruß* ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Clever quoting (was: LO OO are not the only competitors of MSOffice... LO could also make a simple office suite that runs in Android iOS)
Hi Jaime, *, Jaime R. Garza schrieb: On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:53, Valter Mura valterm...@gmail.com wrote: [.. complete mail block qouted ..] About the top quote, it this how it's supposed to be? Isn't it better the other way? At least for me it is. In short: Put comments inline the quoted text below the line they refer to, seperated by one empty line. Delete paragraphs You do not refer to. Posting guidelines link to be found at the footer of every mail. OK - only one link (learn2quote) present in the wikipage at the moment. http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html In particular: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.1, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 [..] Hope this helps :o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: Charles-H. Schulz wrote: But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. Why aren't the users of LibreOffice being told about them? Whom do You accuse here? www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ is the Help page. Let's see what it says: For user support, we have: * Mailing lists: the user support mailing list address is our main channel for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem [...]index. * IRC channels: come chat with us live on IRC at freenode.net [...] * FAQs: we are compiling a list of frequently-asked questions. [...] * Documentation: Check our documentation download page [...] * System requirements: Read the system requirements [...] * Installation instructions: [...] * Accessibility information: Read these accessibility tips [...] That's it! The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. It's not anywhere on the page! What did You *act* to get it there? Why haven't you approached that forum's management to discuss integration with LibreOffice (including branding and design)? Whom do You ask? This question is one You should ask yourself: Why haven't *You* approached to do so? What is this if not a sign of extreme disregard for the wants and needs of ordinary people using the software, most of whom are uncomfortable with, or resistant to, using IRC or mailing lists? indeed! *You* did notice that issue and what was *Your* action? Again: whom do You accuse? Who should act, if not You? I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. An Open Source Software community is a place to *act* rather than complain. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: [..] Anyway, I'm glad that people are responding. I guess it proves the adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease Tell you what, give me the keys to that page and I'll fix it for ya. Do You have an account on the CMS? If not, someone might have the link at hand for registering. Alternatively, I'll see if I can grab the HTML for editing and then I'll whip up a proposal for you guys to vote on. Deal? I'd assume there is no problem to get an author's account. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi Pieter, *, Pieter E. Zanstra schrieb: From: e-letter [mailto:inp...@gmail.com] What's wrong with reading mailing list messages in digest mode and going to the searchable archive as and when appropriate. Because people never keep focus in email, texting and twitter. Those are the worst tools to support a group process. This 25 years old technology should have long been abandoned in favour of more knowledge based tools for a collaboration. Statements as above hit the thumb instead of the nail - causing the corresponding (re)sentiments. :o)) Having watched this space for a month or so, I am about to sign off. I can't hold You. Maybe it's to hard for some people here to read single opinions as opinions instead of facts and to stand opinions different from the own ones. Apparently live is like that.. Have a nice time. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] New technical home for http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/?? (was: Re: Forums - A Different Question)
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: On 04/30/2011 01:56 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Harold Fuchs wrote: Has Oracle given permission for TDF to use its forum, or doesn't TDF need such permission? Does TDF *want* to use an Oracle resource? I think Drew has already explained this on multiple mailing lists, anyway: the forums at http://user.services.openoffice.org/ are run by community members and not by Oracle, they explicitly include LibreOffice among the supported software (see page header), sounds great.. they can be used with no need for permissions from Oracle, and they are probably the best place where LibreOffice users can get support if they don't like mailing lists. [..] Sorry, but I'd have to disagree... http://openoffice.org/terms_of_use The resources are owned and operated by Oracle. might be it's worth thinking to offer that resource a new (technical) home free of fear regarding continuation of the infrastucture?? ;o)) [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Sponsored Issues
Hi Samuel, *, Samuel M schrieb: Thanks, shall I write to this list or to steering-discuss? This list is the right place for that. - Ursprüngliche Message - Von: Rainer Bielefeld libreoff...@bielefeldundbuss.de Samuel M schrieb: [.. TOFU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting ..] [...] Even more challenging is if you can donate money for a specific issue. interesting Idea, but too complex to be discussed here in thi thread. I recommend that you open a separate thread that might pique interest of steering committee. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Fwd: [Libreoffice] Returned mail: see transcript for details
Hi Rainer, *, Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: Hello, from time to time I get a mail with information that my account has been used for SPAMming. The attached instructions letter.zip have been deleted by my email-provider (I believe with good reasons). Any idea what that might mean and what can be done? That's plain spam using a subject that wants make You think, it's from a machine. *Do* examine the content of the attachment - ideally on Your windows box - to get more information ;o)). Maybe You examine it's header to get the IP of the sender and compare with the one of a genuine list mail. Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Libreoffice] Returned mail: see transcript for details [.. Spam ..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] German Foreign Office is dropping only open source software policy
Hi plino, *, plino schrieb: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/227849/open_source_advocates_angry_at_german_govt_decision.html This isn't even about OpenOffice vs LibreOffice... It's about Closed Source vs Open Source right.. TBH I think it was a bad move to change radically if you have experienced and productive users trained on whatever program (regardless of the license). agreed - but I think this wasn't the real reason. Also, if you need professional support you can't just move to Open Source, let alone a Linux distro that was still being developed... I think this can't been estimated without viewing on the political situation. Two Years ago FDP's Guido Westerwelle became boss of the foreign office. The FDP (Free Domocratic Party) is known to serve a special clientele. So shortly after the elections the sales tax for hoteliers was lowered on the food products level (7% instead of 19%). Could it be that it took them 6 years to realize that? No, it was two years to schedule the change after the change. For me no question, who was the gostwriter of the reasoning - there is a big company we know that kind of arguing from.. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient? (was: Paid Developers)
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, e-letter inp...@gmail.com wrote: [..] When can someone improve mailing list behaviour with web mail clients like gmail??? Well I did some testing. Might be it's a good Idea to find the reason *before* declaring the mailing list software the culprit ;o)). Look here: http://www.mail-archive.com/test@documentfoundation.org/msg00118.html Sorry, but what do you mean? Obviously the mailinglist has no influence whatsoever how a webmail or regular mailclient behaves. Is this true? Surely different mailing list manager software will function differently? Even for this e-mail digest, the reply function results in deletion of the original message content, apart from the text shown above. This means a text editor has to be used...:( .. Which is the case anyway - even if provided by the mail client software :o)) Sorry, please be more descriptive. That mail (#6131) is this one: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg06225.html http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg06096.html A digest message is received Opening the message shows all of the content After activating the 'reply' function, the reply text box does not contain the original digest message content As written in testmails - Thunderbird also makes trouble regarding this - 4 Year old kmail doesn't. == Bug?? [..] The problem is that replies to messages cannot be performed directly. This behaviour does not occur in other mailing lists, e.g. gnuplot. So might be they provide digest mails in a gmail more digestible manner - i.e. not base64 encoded? But as long as nobody claims base64 encoded mailcontent beeing improper mail handling, this is buggy behaviour of the client software and should be reported as Bug to the software vendor. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient?
Hi Florian, *, Did You read the mails? I'm in first steps to reproduce e-letters problem with answering digest mails. Florian Effenberger schrieb: Friedrich Strohmaier wrote on 2011-05-15 15.55: But as long as nobody claims base64 encoded mailcontent beeing improper mail handling, this is buggy behaviour of the client software and should be reported as Bug to the software vendor. hm, seems I miss the point - what's the actual problem? As I read in this thread and in others, answering listmails received in digests cause problems for some mail clients. As I found out Thunderbird is affected and gmail seems as well. I suspect it may be caused by the base64 encoded content of that mails. I described here: http://www.mail-archive.com/test@documentfoundation.org/msg00118.html You cut it from my post. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Any wikipedia members/contributors here?
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: [..] However, before updating the page, be aware of: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/4599 [ODF format validity] (read the entire thread - including the 'Continue reading' bits) Or, try to look up the thread on: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ (good luck with that) Instead of the latter You can click lefthand Options ... Classic Gmane web interface ... which leads here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/4599/focus=4639 This is more convenient to follow the thread - and let You answer to the list if You want. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Digestmails answers with quotes not possible?
Hi all, especially those of You receiving mails as digest are requested to report. Some people reported not beeing able getting text of the mail to be quoted in the Editor area. e-letter reported this for gmail, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/5360/focus=5383 I could confirm with recent Thunderbird, but not with fairly aged kmail. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.test/117 Who else has noticed alike? Just try to answer this mail if You receive mails as digest and report. You can report via gmane if it doesn't work out with Your mail client. I suspect base64 encoded content of those mails isn't of taste of some mail clients. Thanks for helping out to narrow down the problem. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient? (was: Paid Developers)
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, e-letter inp...@gmail.com wrote: [..] When can someone improve mailing list behaviour with web mail clients like gmail??? [..] The problem is that replies to messages cannot be performed directly. This behaviour does not occur in other mailing lists, e.g. gnuplot. can You give a link to gnuplot list archive, where it worked? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Problematic digest mail answering - Buggy mailclient?
Hi e-letter, *, e-letter schrieb: A link would not show the behaviour; Thanks for your estimation. My intention was rather to have easy access to information of that list and to an example where Your answer really worked. As I spend enough time investigating Your problem http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.test I hoped to save the time of searching myself.. would be better to subscribe to gnuplot mailing list digest mode. A link where to do so was really great - allthough not helpful *for me* as I don't have gmail running and I don't intend to do so. When the 'reply' function is activated in gmail web-mail interface, the mail message format is retained. As told, I would like to see a succesful example of an answer sent by You if You make possible to provide a link. By the way: As workaround to send proper answers is ordering the desired mail sending a mail to: discuss+ge...@documentfoundation.org where N is the number of that mail provided with the digest. Additionally You're hereby invited to subscribe to test+subscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.org where we try to solve Your problem. We need your experience with digest handling and your testing skills. ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] RC2 - no 3.4.0.x tag in help - about libreoffice
Hi all, installing LibO 3.4.0RC2 I noticed there is no tag describing the release version. So LibO 3.3.2 shows up: LibreOffice 3.3.2 OOO330m19 (Build:202) tag libreoffice-3.3.2.2 LibO 3.4.0RC2 shows: LibreOffice 3.4.0 OOO340m1 (Build:12) which makes it more hard for the support people to define the environment while giving advice or hunting bugs. deb packages on Kubuntu 7.10 32bit. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Comparison of LO and OO downloads for a non-English language
Hi Henri, *, M Henri Day schrieb: 2011/5/28 Stefan Weigel stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org Am 28.05.2011 19:44, schrieb M Henri Day: If the respective helppacks and langpacks can be included in stable versions of OO for non-English languages, I fail to understand why the same thing cannot be done for LO versions. But perhaps I am missing something here ?... As far as I know, it´s an issue of data volume on the download servers. Stefan Which, no doubt, is an question of money. If I got it right it's more a matter of time. The builds are created on the developers machines and then uploaded for distribution. As well building all that packages containing the base package again and again and further upload them, slow down the release process heavily. Thanks, Stefan, that explains it. Sometimes liberty is not that easy to seize !... On our DVD-Image we have modified the procedure for deb installation (DVD is repo) and as well the windows installation. Maybe this is the way to go. Would You like to setup a swedish DVD-Image? The environment is prepaired and as well a german version You could copy and translate ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ
Hi NoOp, *, NoOp schrieb: On 05/24/2011 11:43 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote: 2011/5/25 NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net : Is there one? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ doesn't show or refer to one. The german wiki page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/de has some additions and links for that. Maybe somebody should translate that to the english page. I suppose. But that page is on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ so even if translated and cleaned up wouldn't suffice. But if done it wasn't that difficult to link to? The place for such a FAQ should be on http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ and apply to all locales. In my opinion the place of such a FAQ should be at a place easy to find and to point at.. And then once finalised/finalized should be posted in each mail list on a monthly basis so that list users are aware of etiquette/action/cooperation on the lists. This used to be common practice for mail lists in the past helped resolve unnecessary posts regarding posting styles[1], etc. The problem - as seen also in this thread[1] - is that people don't mind to read just for reading and thus these pointers don't help much. Instead they - or at least some - do if pointed there in case of ineffective communication style. [1] As You might have noticed, about 8 weeks ago I added a new line at the footer of each english language mailing list: Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette So it's easy for each mailing list member to point to suitable information if needed. No research in bookmarks or web. Just look (and point as I do here) at the footer of the mail. I choose to create that wikipage because no one was able or willing to show me a appropriate place to link to. The wikipage makes it easy for everyone to put in suitable text or links to complete information and makes it easy to link from anywhere to recent information as well. Please forgive me the poor content. Feel free to rise information and cultural level. ;o)) It's pretty hard to condem someone for top-posting, going way of topic, discussing religion, et al if there isn't a FAQ or some form of common guideline for user behaviour in the mail lists. Right - therefore my effort. [..] That said, here is a question; how can a common user be expected to possibly find http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ to begin with? Answer: Just point at the end of the mail and put the information You'd expect at that target - done. So: Good news. :o)) I see no link on http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ do you? maybe soon?? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style .. missing up to now - coming soon?? Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] common effort: creating replacement for Oracle Report Builder
Hi all, started a thread on projects mailinglist [libreoffice-projects] common effort: creating replacement for Oracle Report Builder http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.projects/192 Quote: = I examined the capabilities of writer and found many of the requirements for report generation already present there. So I'd propose to have a look by all interested on this topic, whether it is feasible to create a report generating tool based on writer (or calc?) extention(s) or template(s). /Quote == Anyone interested in this task or topic might subscribe the projects mailinglist[1] or discuss here. [1] projects+h...@libreoffice.org sends You more information about that. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Oracle contributes OOo Code to Apache Software Foundation'sIncubator
Hi Augustine, *, Augustine Souza schrieb: On 6/3/11, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: ... [.. nonsense ..] Nonsense. [.. nonsense ..] More nonsense. Thanks :o)) SCNR Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Interesting
Hi Italo, *, thanks for the pointers. Italo Vignoli schrieb: This - sorry - is hot air: Brian Proffitt http://www.itworld.com/software/172393/plea-save-openofficeorg-apache This one saves me much time writing my summary after digging the incubator mails: mentioning http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=2567 [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] OCA vs. ICLA: two names - one thing? (was: Triple licensing?)
Hi Greg, *, I pull this in a new thread, as it is basic for understanding the difference between OCA and ICLA. Greg Stein schrieb: [..] Let's also not forget that neither TDF nor the ASF require copyright assignment. The copyright remains with the contributor. Same thing with OCA. You don't/didn't sell your copy right instead it was shared. Thus, the patch can be offered to the TDF under its suggested LGPLv3/MPL combination, and offered separately to the ASF under an ALv2 license(*). I don't see the basical difference between OCA and ICLA here. Of course I see the difference between Oracle as a commercial company and Apache Software Foundation as a charity. :o)) [..] (*) strictly speaking, you do not offer code to the ASF under any specific license. your ICLA grants the ASF a right to release your code under a license of its choosing. which is basically the same Oracle can do with contributions granted under terms of OCA. By the way: If this topic already was discussed elsewhere I appreciate an archive link. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] OCA vs. ICLA: two names - one thing?
Hi Greg, *, sorry, forgot to post links.. Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb: I pull this in a new thread, as it is basic for understanding the difference between OCA and ICLA. Greg Stein schrieb: [..] Let's also not forget that neither TDF nor the ASF require copyright assignment. The copyright remains with the contributor. Same thing with OCA. You don't/didn't sell your copy right instead it was shared. see here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Joint_Copyright_Assignment http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Oracle_Contributor_Agreement http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-licensing.html#usinglicenses http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/oca.pdf [..] sorry for avoidable noise.. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Libreoffice] Proposal to join Apache OpenOffice
Hi Allen, *, Allen Pulsifer schrieb: On that point, let me be clear: There are millions of potential users for OOo, LO, and open document formats. Many of those potential users work in companies, government agencies and other organizations that routinely trust Microsoft, Oracle, IBM and other large corporations to meet their IT needs. Getting in a public spat with any of those companies does not help the project in the least, it only hurts it. End users do not care about who's right, who's wrong, who's been slighted, who is more pure, etc. They just care about products and technologies that are going to meet their needs. Well, for a healthy community not *only* happy end users are an essetial ingredient as aren't *only* happy coders. If it isn't possible to achive having all parts of the community happy and that way satisfying a significant range of end users (which I also count as part of it) then we definitly should rethink the questions: who are we? Where do we go? For many users, the best thing OOo had going for it was that it was backed by Sun and there was a commercial version users they could turn to if they needed support, etc. Did You ask some of them about the degree of happyness with the results. I'd be interested to read positive feedback regarding this (preferably big numbers!). Now that Oracle has pulled out, that is gone and TdF cannot replace it. Regardless of individual feelings, the best the TdF and its members could do at this point would be to put on a smiling face, magnanimously congratulate the ASF for joining the community, and at least make it look like they were working closely with IBM to bring the best possible open document technologies to the world. If most or almost all of the LO contributors joined the Apache OpenOffice project, if only to lend moral support and help heal the rift, that would only be good for LO and the TdF. The best time to do that is now. Simply don't agree - as of having bad *experience* regarding a big company beeing bad balanced power community member. I notice Your claims beeing questions of faith packed as facts and put mine at the opposite side. So 1:1 ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Copyleft vs. more permissive (was: Proposal to join Apache OpenOffice)
Hi BRM, *, BRM schrieb: From: plino pedl...@gmail.com [..] Even the GPL does not provide that right. If a company wanted it could take a GPL product, make whatever changes it wanted, and distribute it internally to itself without ever contributing back to the community as a whole. True. Anyone using it for his own can do so. Likewise, it could also distribute that same project to its customers, making the source available to them and them alone. True, they even can demand a fee for it. The community will may never see any changes from them; yet that is perfectly valid under all Open Source licenses - even the GPL. Not true. If one of those customers goes ahead and publishes the source code, that company can't forbid. This is covered by the GPL. That means: If IBM put copyleft code (LGPL/GPL) in symphony then I could by a copy, require the source code and publish it. Nothing forces people to work with the community. No license can do that. right, but Your example lacks the point I told. So please do yourself a favor and put that notion - the myth - aside. 50% myth remaining ;o)). [..] they only have to provide the source (in that case) to the end-users _upon request_ for up to 3 years for each version they release from the time they make the sale. (See the GPL license.) Which is enough time to get it, even if donations have to be collected ;o)) Under the Apache license any company can take your code, fix it and say: Hey, this function in the open source version doesn't work. I just spend a day fixing it (instead of months to write it from scratch). Why don't you buy mine which works? They can do that under the GPL too. But we can get it back then. Thats a notable difference ;o)) Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] [OT] Pasta Recipes
Hi Italo, *, Am 05.09.2011 10:23 schrieb Italo Vignoli: Recipes of pasta hacked in Munich are now online: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest2011#Pasta_Recipes Can confirm: The results kick(ed) off even non code hackers :o)) Thanks for Your great hack! Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi NoOp, *, I appreciate Your initiative.. Am 08.09.2011 02:16 schrieb NoOp: For those that continue to insist on top posting on the LO lists: please consider bottom posting with interspersed replies. Those who insist, won't consider. I think it's a good Idea to provide those with kind of guidance or recommendation who don`t know better, and want to express their respect to the attention the audience invests in their request. [..] posting. However at the bottom of each mail on this list is a link to: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette That page doesn't help much either, You ore someone else are warmly invited to change this. I hacked it together after nobody wanted to volunteer, when I setup that footer entries. So doing the footer thing brought me more work which could have been done from someone else with no special permissions and skills. It *intionally* is a wiki site. ;o)) [..] Eventually I hope that LO will actually include a link to general posting guidelines on the http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ page with complete posting guidelines. +1 on that Even if the final consensus is to only top post... at least will help with consistancy on this (users), and the other LO lists. I think this is not a matter of conensus but more kind of recommendation, how to save the readers effort to catch the message and use the time saved to give useful comments. ;o)) Added Note: I'd originally sent this to the users list as IMO that is where the guidelines are needed most. definitly. So there may be some cross posting in replies. No genuine crossposting so at least consistent threads per mailing list. The better lazy way :o)) Regarding the learn to quote and similar posting guidelines of that kind: They are collected experience of efficient mail/newsgroup communication over a long time - nothing more and nothing less. Long stories could be told about this topic - I try to make it short: As one reading a high number of mails a day and one having project experience (since 2003 OOo membership included) enabling me to give answers at many places, I mostly skip mails which show me the poster doesn't worry about my time and effort reading his post. So I rise my daily range about 50 mails, reading and responding the ones of those writers which show respect to my effort. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
