Re: [SH-Discuss] What We Offer Page
I added the 3D printer. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Alex, I added the agreed drafting in link format to the page. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:22 PM, alex kot alexk...@yahoo.com wrote: After work today I can help out with this. Do we have an Blueprint of the new space, that we can put on there to show the area and what they are used for? On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Added some. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: According to Google Analytics, the What We Offer page is getting the heaviest activity today. Would anyone else mind helping out by going through and updating it with what you know we've got? https://synhak.org/wiki/What_we_offer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The Bucket System
That looks cool! -Derpy Approves- On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Tomm Smith root.pac...@gmail.com wrote: TD, We could possibly make some calls to local industrial plants and inquire as to if they have buckets about what we need or similar that their raw materials come in and possibly try to claim there disposal? Tomm Smith God bless On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: From Diyode, an incredibly cheap solution to sorting parts: http://www.diyode.com/2014/02/the-bucket-system/ Anyone know of a similar way to acquire such buckets or storage units for free? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[SH-Discuss] Fwd: [SH-Members] Closing the space Reminder
Found on members@, its pretty useful on discuss@. -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: [SH-Members] Closing the space Reminder Date: Sunday, March 02, 2014, 23:00:40 From: Justin Herman just...@gmail.com To: memb...@synhak.org I stopped in tonight and the heat was still up high and some of the lights were left on. I am not sure if someone was still planning on stopping back in but if not lets make sure we lower the heat and turn off non essential lighting. Just a friendly reminder. Justin - ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[SH-Discuss] open hours - monday/3
When will the building be open today? Who will be the member overlord/monitor/mentor for the day? Thanks! Philip ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] open hours - monday/3
On Monday, March 03, 2014 09:47:52 Philip P. Patnode wrote: When will the building be open today? Who will be the member overlord/monitor/mentor for the day? Thanks! Philip I will be there at 6 PM today. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] open hours - monday/3
TF Thanks for the info. Will arrive shortly after 6pm. PPP On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 09:47:52 Philip P. Patnode wrote: When will the building be open today? Who will be the member overlord/monitor/mentor for the day? Thanks! Philip I will be there at 6 PM today. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[SH-Discuss] need help with two hard drives
Anybody @ SH I have two hard drives that I need to work on and do not have the USB adapter to connect them to my laptop. It is buried in some unknown box in one on my storage units and I do not have the time or energy to conduct a mining expedition to find it. I need to access a 160 GB 2.5in SATA laptop hard drive (if it even works) and extract original customer files to transfer to a new computer. The drive has been removed from a dead Toshiba Satellite laptop that has either a bad LCD screen or a bad video card or both. This is a time critical project and must be completed as soon as practical/possible. Also, I need to access and view the files on a 500 GB 3.5in IDE hard drive that was removed from a dead HP Pavilion desktop. If nothing interesting is found, it will be re-formatted and installed in another tower case. I plan to be at SH later today, shortly after 6pm. I will be at SH tomorrow, before and after the weekly meeting. Any assistance and use of a USB SATA/IDE adapter will be appreciated. If a tasty sandwich from Subway is necessary for the project, please advise and state your menu preference. Not buying beer or cheep wine - ever. Thanks, Philip ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] need help with two hard drives
On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:05:35 Philip P. Patnode wrote: Anybody @ SH I have two hard drives that I need to work on and do not have the USB adapter to connect them to my laptop. It is buried in some unknown box in one on my storage units and I do not have the time or energy to conduct a mining expedition to find it. I need to access a 160 GB 2.5in SATA laptop hard drive (if it even works) and extract original customer files to transfer to a new computer. The drive has been removed from a dead Toshiba Satellite laptop that has either a bad LCD screen or a bad video card or both. This is a time critical project and must be completed as soon as practical/possible. Also, I need to access and view the files on a 500 GB 3.5in IDE hard drive that was removed from a dead HP Pavilion desktop. If nothing interesting is found, it will be re-formatted and installed in another tower case. I plan to be at SH later today, shortly after 6pm. I will be at SH tomorrow, before and after the weekly meeting. Any assistance and use of a USB SATA/IDE adapter will be appreciated. Yup, we've got a couple of them lying around though I'm probably going to be busy with building more of those light units for workbenches. If a tasty sandwich from Subway is necessary for the project, please advise and state your menu preference. Not buying beer or cheep wine - ever. Thanks, Philip ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The leased racks
On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:13:08 Omar Rassi wrote: My understanding from conversations at the space about this was that the racks would have plywood walls built onto them so that they can be separated from prying eyes and sticky hands. Nothing on those shelves should concern anyone but the Lessee and legal agents of the lessor. Is there a copy of the lease on the documents repo or filed on paper at Synhak??? I feel as Champion I should at least be familiar with the details of the lease in order to help protect everyone's interests. No, there is nothing. Some time ago there was a copy sent to bizops@, but: * There was no board vote * There was no proposal * I've never seen a signed copy * I raised issues with the version sent to bizops@ that were totally ignored Citations: Original question: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-January/53.html Devin posted the lease to bizops@: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/66.html Raising issues: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/68.html No, there was no vote or proposal: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003270.html I am unable to find any mention of a sub-lease in meeting minutes prior to the above mails. If the lease was signed without any formal discussion or approval, I would feel that it is a massive breach of trust and possibly not even legally binding. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: I am not comfortable with those racks that a board member is (in theory) leasing space for. At today's open house, I saw numerous guests grabbing and poking things. I then put up signs and kept an eye on it. Didn't help. I've also noticed that a few synhak things are on the racks now. If synhak is somehow liable for those racks, I have some questions that will be brought up on Tuesday: When did the board approve such a situation or lease? Where was the membership discussion about the use of space that does not contribute to hacking? Is synhak liable for any damages or stolen equipment? What if some of our stuff ends up there? If synhak is liable, does that mean the champions are required to police the racks? You'll never get members to do that. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The leased racks
If i may help summarize the mood as I saw it at the time for those in the back, 48 is still very new, with double the space and a seemingly never ending list of projects: member's money is flying out the doors with no end in sight, the saying 'give till it hurts, then come back tomorrow' feels like it should be the motto. The word from the treasurer is we're broke - doubt we can afford heat, give me a receipt and i'll (magic?), and the calender relentlessly approaches opening day. A member everyone loves at the moment generously offers to trade some space for some monthly cash (as if he hasn't donated enough already), and as a bonus, extra shelves to use as wall dividers until real walls can be afforded. Who could possibly be against such a donation at that time? /end my mood at the time On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:13:08 Omar Rassi wrote: My understanding from conversations at the space about this was that the racks would have plywood walls built onto them so that they can be separated from prying eyes and sticky hands. Nothing on those shelves should concern anyone but the Lessee and legal agents of the lessor. Is there a copy of the lease on the documents repo or filed on paper at Synhak??? I feel as Champion I should at least be familiar with the details of the lease in order to help protect everyone's interests. No, there is nothing. Some time ago there was a copy sent to bizops@, but: * There was no board vote * There was no proposal * I've never seen a signed copy * I raised issues with the version sent to bizops@ that were totally ignored Citations: Original question: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-January/53.html Devin posted the lease to bizops@: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/66.html Raising issues: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/68.html No, there was no vote or proposal: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003270.html I am unable to find any mention of a sub-lease in meeting minutes prior to the above mails. If the lease was signed without any formal discussion or approval, I would feel that it is a massive breach of trust and possibly not even legally binding. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: I am not comfortable with those racks that a board member is (in theory) leasing space for. At today's open house, I saw numerous guests grabbing and poking things. I then put up signs and kept an eye on it. Didn't help. I've also noticed that a few synhak things are on the racks now. If synhak is somehow liable for those racks, I have some questions that will be brought up on Tuesday: When did the board approve such a situation or lease? Where was the membership discussion about the use of space that does not contribute to hacking? Is synhak liable for any damages or stolen equipment? What if some of our stuff ends up there? If synhak is liable, does that mean the champions are required to police the racks? You'll never get members to do that. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] need help with two hard drives
TF If you can find one, please set it aside for me. Would you like a 6in sub from Subway? If yes, tell me what bread and contents you want. Dressing? Thanks! PPP On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:05:35 Philip P. Patnode wrote: Anybody @ SH I have two hard drives that I need to work on and do not have the USB adapter to connect them to my laptop. It is buried in some unknown box in one on my storage units and I do not have the time or energy to conduct a mining expedition to find it. I need to access a 160 GB 2.5in SATA laptop hard drive (if it even works) and extract original customer files to transfer to a new computer. The drive has been removed from a dead Toshiba Satellite laptop that has either a bad LCD screen or a bad video card or both. This is a time critical project and must be completed as soon as practical/possible. Also, I need to access and view the files on a 500 GB 3.5in IDE hard drive that was removed from a dead HP Pavilion desktop. If nothing interesting is found, it will be re-formatted and installed in another tower case. I plan to be at SH later today, shortly after 6pm. I will be at SH tomorrow, before and after the weekly meeting. Any assistance and use of a USB SATA/IDE adapter will be appreciated. Yup, we've got a couple of them lying around though I'm probably going to be busy with building more of those light units for workbenches. If a tasty sandwich from Subway is necessary for the project, please advise and state your menu preference. Not buying beer or cheep wine - ever. Thanks, Philip ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
I'm sorry, but I'm siding with Torrie on this one. On 3/3/2014 11:35 AM, Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. The purpose of bringing up proposals on the discuss list is so that anyone subscribed can participate in the proposal process, member or not. If you wish to discuss your proposals, please bring them up on the list so that people subscribed can participate in the discussion. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.com mailto:a4s...@dsprototyping.com wrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 This was the monthly increase in billing to more than quadruple our infrastructure's power, by implementing the original proposal. Then $16.40 This is the monthly savings we will see if we implement this proposal and spend the $200 mentioned to reserve the t1.micro instances mentioned. Now it's $123.10 This was a hypothetical number. It's the monthly cost of the originally proposed infrastructure (2x t1.micro, 2x m1.small, and 1x m1.small RDS) purchased without reservations, minus the monthly cost of the same infrastructure purchased with monthly reservations. It was given simply to illustrate how much of a monthly savings is available when utilizing the AWS Reserved Instances program. This number has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this current proposal. ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net mailto:tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org mailto:Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org mailto:Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The leased racks
On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:50:03 Craig Bergdorf wrote: If i may help summarize the mood as I saw it at the time for those in the back, 48 is still very new, with double the space and a seemingly never ending list of projects: member's money is flying out the doors with no end in sight, the saying 'give till it hurts, then come back tomorrow' feels like it should be the motto. The word from the treasurer is we're broke - doubt we can afford heat, give me a receipt and i'll (magic?), and the calender relentlessly approaches opening day. The original estimation about heat was $900 based on the only information I knew about our MCF rate. It ended up being around $100. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and show the accounting that shows we aren't broke. I would not be setting lofty goals of the original $1200 membership credit, $50 monthly maintenance budget, $150 buildout budget, etc if we were desperately seeking funds. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that we are or ever were broke. When I started working on the accounting I (imho) had been very transparent and consistently reiterated that we in fact have a lot more funds than was previously reported with plenty of evidence. I admit that the evidence was a bit murky, but then again, nobody asked me to work with them to understand it. A member everyone loves at the moment generously offers to trade some space for some monthly cash (as if he hasn't donated enough already), and as a bonus, extra shelves to use as wall dividers until real walls can be afforded. Who could possibly be against such a donation at that time? Please don't bring up quantity of contributions as any kind of metric of a person's value. Please just no. That is a very very bad road to go down. /end my mood at the time On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:13:08 Omar Rassi wrote: My understanding from conversations at the space about this was that the racks would have plywood walls built onto them so that they can be separated from prying eyes and sticky hands. Nothing on those shelves should concern anyone but the Lessee and legal agents of the lessor. Is there a copy of the lease on the documents repo or filed on paper at Synhak??? I feel as Champion I should at least be familiar with the details of the lease in order to help protect everyone's interests. No, there is nothing. Some time ago there was a copy sent to bizops@, but: * There was no board vote * There was no proposal * I've never seen a signed copy * I raised issues with the version sent to bizops@ that were totally ignored Citations: Original question: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-January/53.html Devin posted the lease to bizops@: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/66.html Raising issues: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/68.html No, there was no vote or proposal: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003270.html I am unable to find any mention of a sub-lease in meeting minutes prior to the above mails. If the lease was signed without any formal discussion or approval, I would feel that it is a massive breach of trust and possibly not even legally binding. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: I am not comfortable with those racks that a board member is (in theory) leasing space for. At today's open house, I saw numerous guests grabbing and poking things. I then put up signs and kept an eye on it. Didn't help. I've also noticed that a few synhak things are on the racks now. If synhak is somehow liable for those racks, I have some questions that will be brought up on Tuesday: When did the board approve such a situation or lease? Where was the membership discussion about the use of space that does not contribute to hacking? Is synhak liable for any damages or stolen equipment? What if some of our stuff ends up there? If synhak is liable, does that mean the champions are required to police the racks? You'll never get members to do that. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The leased racks
it wasn't meant like that (didn't think of it like that until you mentioned it - thanks), I was just trying to ram home the point that the offer was not one made to take advantage of the space in their time of need for personal gain, but to help the space as much as possible, and at the time most donations took place, it required a lot of goodwill towards and belief in the space to continue donating after (imo) being blasted for doing so repeatedly. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:50:03 Craig Bergdorf wrote: If i may help summarize the mood as I saw it at the time for those in the back, 48 is still very new, with double the space and a seemingly never ending list of projects: member's money is flying out the doors with no end in sight, the saying 'give till it hurts, then come back tomorrow' feels like it should be the motto. The word from the treasurer is we're broke - doubt we can afford heat, give me a receipt and i'll (magic?), and the calender relentlessly approaches opening day. The original estimation about heat was $900 based on the only information I knew about our MCF rate. It ended up being around $100. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and show the accounting that shows we aren't broke. I would not be setting lofty goals of the original $1200 membership credit, $50 monthly maintenance budget, $150 buildout budget, etc if we were desperately seeking funds. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that we are or ever were broke. When I started working on the accounting I (imho) had been very transparent and consistently reiterated that we in fact have a lot more funds than was previously reported with plenty of evidence. I admit that the evidence was a bit murky, but then again, nobody asked me to work with them to understand it. A member everyone loves at the moment generously offers to trade some space for some monthly cash (as if he hasn't donated enough already), and as a bonus, extra shelves to use as wall dividers until real walls can be afforded. Who could possibly be against such a donation at that time? Please don't bring up quantity of contributions as any kind of metric of a person's value. Please just no. That is a very very bad road to go down. /end my mood at the time On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 10:13:08 Omar Rassi wrote: My understanding from conversations at the space about this was that the racks would have plywood walls built onto them so that they can be separated from prying eyes and sticky hands. Nothing on those shelves should concern anyone but the Lessee and legal agents of the lessor. Is there a copy of the lease on the documents repo or filed on paper at Synhak??? I feel as Champion I should at least be familiar with the details of the lease in order to help protect everyone's interests. No, there is nothing. Some time ago there was a copy sent to bizops@, but: * There was no board vote * There was no proposal * I've never seen a signed copy * I raised issues with the version sent to bizops@ that were totally ignored Citations: Original question: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-January/53.html Devin posted the lease to bizops@: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/66.html Raising issues: https://synhak.org/pipermail/bizops/2014-February/68.html No, there was no vote or proposal: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003270.html I am unable to find any mention of a sub-lease in meeting minutes prior to the above mails. If the lease was signed without any formal discussion or approval, I would feel that it is a massive breach of trust and possibly not even legally binding. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: I am not comfortable with those racks that a board member is (in theory) leasing space for. At today's open house, I saw numerous guests grabbing and poking things. I then put up signs and kept an eye on it. Didn't help. I've also noticed that a few synhak things are on the racks now. If synhak is somehow liable for those racks, I have some questions that will be brought up on Tuesday: When did the board approve such a situation or lease? Where was the membership discussion about the use of space that does not contribute to hacking? Is synhak liable for any damages or stolen equipment? What if some of our stuff ends up there? If synhak is liable, does that mean the champions are required to police the racks? You'll never get members to do
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:27:50 Torrie Fischer wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:05:08 Craig Bergdorf wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: I would really like to develop a finance committee for the space but I do not have the bandwidth, so I'm taking a very brute force approach to it by asking discuss@ for expenditures. Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? Yes, thats the $50 maintenance budget. https://synhak.org/wiki/Maintenance_Budget This $200 is an investment into our monthly AWS budget, which is a separate entry that gets wrapped up into accounts payable, which is currently estimated at $435. This $200 would therefore be 31% of the estimated $635 total, should this be agreed upon. As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). Open sign and the webcam don't need much maintenance once they're configured and left untouched. The recent synhak.org infrastructure rebuilding I finished that involves disposable web servers removes a lot of the failure points we previously suffered with the system. I was hoping to work on removing a bunch more failure points on the client side, but not today. If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. Most of the buildout was in the form of membership dues credit. For some reason, nobody has actually asked for any reimbursement yet. I thought I was very transparent on how much money we had available for reimbursement, how much membership credit was available, and what the difference was between credit and reimbursement. SYNHAK, Inc has so far spent $21.29 on four floodlights, and $22.15 on some kitchen supplies. That is it. I'm serious. For giggles, here's our checking account from December 1st 2013 to today: http://i.imgur.com/z3rOjib.png I'm happy to explain any entries :) Heck, I've had $150 in SYNHAK reimbursement cash on my person every single day I was at the space over the last two months. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:31:51 Justin Herman wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? It isn't just about hosting our website. SYNHAK.org is a playground for people who want to build a hackerspace's online infrastructure. If you're against that, I'd be happy to ramp up my efforts to protect our culture of exploration and inventiveness that supports the hacker community. Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? I'll produce a report that shows why AWS is the best option for fulfilling our goals. Hint: 99.99% availability isn't the primary reason. Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. Whats your solution to physical security against someone who accidentally fires a javelin through a server? Or flooding in the basement? Or pouring beer on a switch? If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. Saying production implies that we're sometimes not flying by the seat of our pants or actively hacking on things while they're being used. Is this the wrong time to mention that I deleted a web server from the face of the 'net using my phone while en route to Annabell's Saturday night to prove that our setup is in fact incredibly fault tolerant? I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? I'll try and find the data I produced back when they were screwing us over at 21 W. North. Essentially, we were getting maybe 20% of what we were paying for. There also is no QOS contract. There also is nothing stopping a hacker from ripping out the modem and leaving us without internet for a few days while a replacement is sourced. Or even worse, city maintenance severing a physical line underground. And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? You're joking, right? What other options are there? They've got a monopoly. Starting a municipal ISP wasn't just an idea we threw out there for fun. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread: https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two t1.micro instances in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200 up front will reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure expenses low for the next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest elsewhere with a break even point of 12 months. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
TWC is inherently bad in this region. Although a specific study has not yet been done at 48, I'll bet you a panda once the basement is built up a bit more and one is run it will fail. packet loss, inconsistent speeds, random outages, the whole deal. A single (especially docsis) connection to the internet can't be trusted for much, twc just lowers the bar for what is deemed an always on conenction. that being said, I don't think it's a huge deal if ftp.synhak.org was down 5% of the time due to twc, or angry panda attack. I do care if the website as a whole is down even 1% of the time as it just looks unprofessional. The hybrid I suggested was just offloading all file hosting over a few k or whatever makes sense from a billing standpoint to the basement, but keeping all the thinking where it can always speak. There are plenty of other options to host a reliable site for less (i resell hosting myself with an SLA, and a synhak sized account would be really cheap), but there are also cheaper workbenches to be had over the ones that were built, however it's too late to replace them now (and why when there far better, and nobody feels bad modifying them) There has been a lot of work put into aws that would require being thrown away if moving to a different hosting infrastructure. I'm sure lots more can be offloaded, but I hope everything someone arriving off google would want would be available always. Also, yes torrie, bad time to mention that, this convo was started at 21 when people started asking how hard is it to keep a website up? need help or hosting or something? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:27:50 Torrie Fischer wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:05:08 Craig Bergdorf wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: I would really like to develop a finance committee for the space but I do not have the bandwidth, so I'm taking a very brute force approach to it by asking discuss@ for expenditures. Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? Yes, thats the $50 maintenance budget. https://synhak.org/wiki/Maintenance_Budget This $200 is an investment into our monthly AWS budget, which is a separate entry that gets wrapped up into accounts payable, which is currently estimated at $435. This $200 would therefore be 31% of the estimated $635 total, should this be agreed upon. As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). Open sign and the webcam don't need much maintenance once they're configured and left untouched. The recent synhak.org infrastructure rebuilding I finished that involves disposable web servers removes a lot of the failure points we previously suffered with the system. I was hoping to work on removing a bunch more failure points on the client side, but not today. If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. Most of the buildout was in the form of membership dues credit. For some reason, nobody has actually asked for any reimbursement yet. I thought I was very transparent on how much money we had available for reimbursement, how much membership credit was available, and what the difference was between credit and reimbursement. SYNHAK, Inc has so far spent $21.29 on four floodlights, and $22.15 on some kitchen supplies. That is it. I'm serious. For giggles, here's our checking account from December 1st 2013 to today: http://i.imgur.com/z3rOjib.png I'm happy to explain any entries :) Heck, I've had $150 in SYNHAK reimbursement cash on my person every single day I was at the space over the last two months. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:03:44 Craig Bergdorf wrote: TWC is inherently bad in this region. Although a specific study has not yet been done at 48, I'll bet you a panda once the basement is built up a bit more and one is run it will fail. packet loss, inconsistent speeds, random outages, the whole deal. A single (especially docsis) connection to the internet can't be trusted for much, twc just lowers the bar for what is deemed an always on conenction. that being said, I don't think it's a huge deal if ftp.synhak.org was down 5% of the time due to twc, or angry panda attack. I do care if the website as a whole is down even 1% of the time as it just looks unprofessional. The hybrid I suggested was just offloading all file hosting over a few k or whatever makes sense from a billing standpoint to the basement, but keeping all the thinking where it can always speak. There are plenty of other options to host a reliable site for less (i resell hosting myself with an SLA, and a synhak sized account would be really cheap), but there are also cheaper workbenches to be had over the ones that were built, however it's too late to replace them now (and why when there far better, and nobody feels bad modifying them) There has been a lot of work put into aws that would require being thrown away if moving to a different hosting infrastructure. I'm sure lots more can be offloaded, but I hope everything someone arriving off google would want would be available always. Also, yes torrie, bad time to mention that, this convo was started at 21 when people started asking how hard is it to keep a website up? need help or hosting or something? Remember when we had Phong running on kevlar and we kept tripping the breaker in the Perkins room and network just wouldn't stay up and meeting minutes and accounting transparency stopped working for weeks at a time? Me too. Good times. I also remember asking those same people if they'd like to help but once I explained our requirements they tuned out and didn't contribute. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:27:50 Torrie Fischer wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:05:08 Craig Bergdorf wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: I would really like to develop a finance committee for the space but I do not have the bandwidth, so I'm taking a very brute force approach to it by asking discuss@ for expenditures. Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? Yes, thats the $50 maintenance budget. https://synhak.org/wiki/Maintenance_Budget This $200 is an investment into our monthly AWS budget, which is a separate entry that gets wrapped up into accounts payable, which is currently estimated at $435. This $200 would therefore be 31% of the estimated $635 total, should this be agreed upon. As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). Open sign and the webcam don't need much maintenance once they're configured and left untouched. The recent synhak.org infrastructure rebuilding I finished that involves disposable web servers removes a lot of the failure points we previously suffered with the system. I was hoping to work on removing a bunch more failure points on the client side, but not today. If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. Most of the buildout was in the form of membership dues credit. For some reason, nobody has actually asked for any reimbursement yet. I thought I was very transparent on how much money we had available for reimbursement, how much membership credit was available, and what the difference was between credit and reimbursement. SYNHAK, Inc has so far spent $21.29 on four floodlights, and $22.15 on some kitchen supplies. That is it. I'm
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT? first you said it was $1.60 Then $16.40 Now it's $123.10 ? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: Previous thread:
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
IDEA: It might be smart to talk to other hackerspaces and see if they would act as an encrypted backup for us if we do the same. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can claim to be concerned about something and not actually say why. Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll be producing a technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the hacker community we aim to support. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: WAT?
[SH-Discuss] Fw: [makersalliance] Job Openings at Linestream Technologies
I just want to point out to the group, that the product of Linestream Technologies is at the core of mechatronics, software based motor controllers: http://linestream.com/news/ http://linestream.com/for-motors/ Motor and motor controller improvements are the main factors that enabled the SCHAFT company to recently win round one of the DARPA humanoid robot contest: http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/humanoids/schaft-robot-company-bought-by-google-darpa-robotics-challenge-winner Their robot moves more fluidly, instantaneously and with better control because they have more control over their motors. SCHAFT was recently bought by Google. Imagine that in your next mechatronic project, in addition to gear selection and the typical stepper or servo control, you now also can control additional motor and motion parameters, with software. You would have a new capability that others don't yet have. This is the type of cutting edge opportunity that is usually taken up by MIT and Stanford graduates, so it would be nice if someone from NEO got it this time instead. - Forwarded Message - From: airhus...@gmail.com airhus...@gmail.com To: makersallia...@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:48 AM Subject: [makersalliance] Job Openings at Linestream Technologies My company has a number of openings: http://linestream.com/careers/ There are a couple for embedded software developers and we are urgently looking for someone who can create User Interfaces using C++ or C#. Please take a look and pass on to anyone you know who might be interested. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Makers' Alliance group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to makersalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the lower price tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be paying more for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old fashioned house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't require so much maintenance). If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not knowing if the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper). I am also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 months of building. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: I agree with Andrew, I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need to evaluate the needs of the infrastructure. If you've got several concerns, what are those concerns? I too can
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal discussion: Associate Members
No discussion on a mechanism that has the potential to prevent future tension? This makes me sad :( On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:29:34 Torrie Fischer wrote: I'd like to discuss the possibility of an additional class of members based on the success I've seen of using it at Noisebridge. Right now, we've got just one class of members called Members. Some time ago, they introduced a second group called Associate Members. The procedure for becoming an associate member is pretty simple: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Membership#Associate_Members Essentially, you create a User wiki page, find four sponsors (who are other associate members or regular members), then add a category tag to your page. Associate members can't participate in governance or need to pay dues, but it does give a sense of belonging and establishes a network of trust between active community participants who have not become full members and full members. We're a lot more than just a tiny handful of maybe a dozen active contributors! I think we can differ from NB's implementation by requiring that least one of the four sponsors must be a full Member. Since I'm not a fan of using the wiki to maintain any kind of membership records, I'd like to implement something like that in spiff as an implementation of the next milestone of a plugin architecture. Feedback, please! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
Torrie, I would appreciate it if you could refrain from treating me like I am attacking you. I am not your enemy. I see things differently than you BUT I respect your point of view. I expect that you do the same. You *don't* have to agree with me.* I expect you to Be excellent to each other. *I don't feel like I am treated with excellence, I feel treated with hate. You have insulted me and my ideas by calling me an idiot. You treat me as if I am trying to defraud the group. If you feel I have done something to warrant this disdain I ask that you tell me as I am not aware. If you feel you have grounds to warrant a termination of my membership I encourage you to follow our bylaws (see sections 5.5, 5.6, 5.8) I am formally asking you to stop treating me like this. If you don't think you can follow SynHak's mantra of excellence I question why you stay involved. Respectfully, ~J.Herman PS: you sponsored me On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of that does this $200 represent? As I
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6 months now. I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other reason than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :) Torrie: Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken their opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just have a problem with everything'. I can't count how many times you have been on each side of these skirmishes lately. imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who wants to contribute. When that majority changes flavors, by design, SynHak changes with it. It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to be a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say you dont get the culture. The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected part of this culture? One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward after so many times others have pulled this space over right now I was not a sponsor of him, but I would be proud if I had. *If you don't want a discussion don't ask for one.* Perhaps, as you suggest, you should be a lot more careful in the future. I feel i should bath my laptop after seeing such unwarranted unprovoked nastiness. /imo On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On 3/3/2014 12:31 PM, Justin Herman wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? No one has said that there are no other viable options for hosting. Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? As I mentioned before, I am completely welcome to exploring alternatives. Neither Torrie nor I have been presented with an alternative that doesn't either significantly increase our price or decrease our web presence's functionality. You seem to be the one that is the most adamant about exploring alternatives, yet the only one you have proposed[1], I have demonstrated that there would be an increase in cost incurred to SYN/HAK[2]. Remember, the only quote that we've gotten so far that reached 10mbps upstream was the one from OneCommunity for $760/mo.[3] [1] https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003433.html [2] https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003436.html [3] https://synhak.org/pipermail/noc/2014-January/000110.html With no viable options being presented, I feel like Torrie and I are having our time wasted, because the argument is but there could be something cheaper out there. It's like calling a meeting with no defined agenda. The only thing that happens when a meeting is called with no defined agenda is every participant leaves the room going Well, that was a waste of time. I have directly asked you before to present options.[4] You have yet to do so. If you wish to continue this conversation, please bring forth evidence supporting an alternative hosting solution that either increases our capability, or only minimally impacts it. [4] https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003436.html Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like spiff/wiki/fileserver due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we could always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem like we fell off the face of the internet. Computers are of the Cheap, Reliable, Modern, Pick two matrix. If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo site. That has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. One of our current AWS infrastructure's purposes is fault-tolerance and reliability. What better way to demonstrate that than by doing a live demo to people on the production infrastructure? Also, the costs associated with temporarily spinning up 10 instances for an hour while doing a class are virtually nothing, and if you are concerned about the costs of using the live environment, I will pay the dollar out of my own pocket, even if I do not attend the class, just to prove it is dirt cheap. I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is unreliable but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit space it is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service BW? Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? TWC is unusable as a bandwidth provider for webhosting purposes for the following reasons: 1.) Lack of static IPs with our current plan without paying for them 2.) 768kbps upstream 3.) Concerns about physical layer reliability. Next time we are at the space, remind me to show you how the TWC technician installed our coaxial cable. If we don't cross paths within a week or so, I'll post a picture to discuss. 4.) Time Warner Cable is in the process of being acquired by Comcast. Both Time Warner and Comcast are known for (excuse my language) the absolute fucking worst customer service in the industry. We are with TWC right now because at the old space, the only other option was ATT, whose customer service is on par with Comcast. If you would like to know my opposition to ATT, I will email you copies of the complaints I have made against them with the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio and the Federal Communications Commission. I will demand that any talk of spending any space money on anything from ATT go to a proposal so I can block consensus on it. 5.) Price. Alternatives that would provide us adequate bandwidth are so much more expensive than we are able to afford at this time. See the quote from OneCommunity.[3] On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com mailto:mm1...@gmail.com wrote: or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right now, just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that said it wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) this is meant as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving purchases, if so: Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like toilet paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What percentage of the remainder of
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
I think Alex Idea is a GREAT one. I will bring documentation and pricing. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:33 PM, alex kot alexk...@yahoo.com wrote: http://i.imgur.com/DvXWk.gif How about we just discuss this in person. Get some ideas together and draw out a plan. In all honesty we wanted to raise member fees so we can support the space. How about we get more member and create less drama on the discuss thread and meetings. Let's get some things together draw out some plans and discuss this after Tuesday's meeting like grown adults. On Monday, March 3, 2014 2:16 PM, Craig Bergdorf mm1...@gmail.com wrote: Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6 months now. I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other reason than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :) Torrie: Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken their opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just have a problem with everything'. I can't count how many times you have been on each side of these skirmishes lately. imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who wants to contribute. When that majority changes flavors, by design, SynHak changes with it. It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to be a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say you dont get the culture. The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected part of this culture? One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward after so many times others have pulled this space over right now I was not a sponsor of him, but I would be proud if I had. *If you don't want a discussion don't ask for one.* Perhaps, as you suggest, you should be a lot more careful in the future. I feel i should bath my laptop after seeing such unwarranted unprovoked nastiness. /imo On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: My question is why no other options viable for hosting? Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 servers? Why could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some local hosting and some AWS? Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us to have a
[SH-Discuss] [drama] Re: Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 14:15:15 Justin Herman wrote: Torrie, I would appreciate it if you could refrain from treating me like I am attacking you. It'd be super cool if you also stopped treating me like I'm acting irresponsibly with the space's money. I honestly have no idea why one would think so or what I could possibly do to convince you otherwise. Considering the current atmosphere of distrust towards me in the space, I've deemed pouring any more effort into that a waste of time, so I guess everyone will have to deal with the level of transparency I currently provide. In my personal opinion, I can't find any other organization that is as transparent with finances as I try to be. I am not your enemy. I see things differently than you BUT I respect your point of view. I expect that you do the same. You *don't* have to agree with me.* I expect you to Be excellent to each other. *I don't feel like I am treated with excellence, I feel treated with hate. You have insulted me and my ideas by calling me an idiot. You treat me as if I am trying to defraud the group. Ah jeez, I called you an idiot? Surely there is a citation for that. Everyone knows how much of a stickler I am for documentation and how irritated I get when stuff isn't on a mailing list. If you're concerned that I think you're trying to defraud the group, how about answering some of the serious questions I've raised relating to your special lease arrangement with the space? Why not push for more conflict resolution mechanisms? Along the same lines, fighting so hard against a proposal from two weeks ago that says we write down exactly what we are agreeing upon so nobody gets confused and subsequently hurt is rather fascinating. When someone claims I am defrauding anyone, I immediately start asking questions about how I can prove that I'm not. Its a lot easier for everyone involved than jumping up and saying Help! Help! I'm being repressed! If you feel I have done something to warrant this disdain I ask that you tell me as I am not aware. If you feel you have grounds to warrant a termination of my membership I encourage you to follow our bylaws (see sections 5.5, 5.6, 5.8) I'm not activating that until we have a Community Working Group in place. Removing a member is not a solution as long as there is an option for conflict resolution. I am formally asking you to stop treating me like this. If you don't think you can follow SynHak's mantra of excellence I question why you stay involved. Someone didn't read my novel. https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003316.html Respectfully, ~J.Herman PS: you sponsored me On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman
[SH-Discuss] [drama] Re: Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
On Monday, March 03, 2014 14:16:14 Craig Bergdorf wrote: Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6 months now. I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other reason than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :) Torrie: Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken their opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just have a problem with everything'. I can't count how many times you have been on each side of these skirmishes lately. You're completely right. I've been a total bitch about quite a few things. I will make no attempt to excuse my behavior, except that I may have differing opinions about the difference between being excellent and railing against pressure points that others have described to me. imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who wants to contribute. When that majority changes flavors, by design, SynHak changes with it. It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to be a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say you dont get the culture. The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected part of this culture? One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward after so many times others have pulled this space over right now If the something changes to become something I'm not happy with, I either change it or I give up and start something new. There was no culture of hackers here in Akron. Then there was, briefly, for about a year. Now it is being eaten away in favor of executive statements, pre-emptive rules that restrict harmless activities, participation metrics, avoidance of open discussion, and assuming that others are acting in bad faith. I was not a sponsor of him, but I would be proud if I had. *If you don't want a discussion don't ask for one.* Perhaps, as you suggest, you should be a lot more careful in the future. I feel i should bath my laptop after seeing such unwarranted unprovoked nastiness. I wanted a discussion with facts. I got opinionated bikeshedding and evidence- less speculation about why I might be wrong. /imo On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A playground maybe should not be what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a playground they are infrastructure. They are constructs. Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No sense in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the culture. I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm regretting it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the goals? As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure. You mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that right now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet our members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of outage for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could offsite host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes off-line no guests would be the wiser. With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them. *nod* Its in my backlog. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman
Re: [SH-Discuss] [makersalliance] Job Openings at Linestream Technologies
I just want to point out to the group, that the product of Linestream Technologies is at the core of mechatronics, software based motor controllers: http://linestream.com/news/ http://linestream.com/for-motors/ Motor and motor controller improvements are the main factors that enabled the SCHAFT company to recently win round one of the DARPA humanoid robot contest: http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/humanoids/schaft-robot-company-bought-by-google-darpa-robotics-challenge-winner Their robot moves more fluidly, instantaneously and with better control because they have more control over their motors. SCHAFT was recently bought by Google. Imagine that in your next mechatronic project, in addition to gear selection and the typical stepper or servo control, you now also can control additional motor and motion parameters, with software. You would have a new capability that others don't yet have. This is the type of cutting edge opportunity that is usually taken up by MIT and Stanford graduates, so it would be nice if someone from NEO got it this time instead. From: airhus...@gmail.com airhus...@gmail.com To: makersallia...@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:48 AM Subject: [makersalliance] Job Openings at Linestream Technologies My company has a number of openings: http://linestream.com/careers/ There are a couple for embedded software developers and we are urgently looking for someone who can create User Interfaces using C++ or C#. Please take a look and pass on to anyone you know who might be interested. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Makers' Alliance group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to makersalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] The Bucket System
We could also implement a drawer based system similar to the Lehigh hackerspace http://hackaday.com/2013/03/19/hackerspace-intro-make-lehigh-valley/ On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Philip P. Patnode ppatn...@gmail.comwrote: FYI Any decent size restaurant or caterer uses and discards more than a few round and square buckets every day. Just ask the chief cook and bottle washer to save them for a few days and pick up the pile. In less than two weeks, several shelves could be filled with overflowing buckets of good junk. Stick to one source and get identical buckets, as in the photos on the link Tomm attached. Don't forget to say 'thank you' to the supplier with a couple of 40oz beers. Philip On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: That looks cool! -Derpy Approves- On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Tomm Smith root.pac...@gmail.com wrote: TD, We could possibly make some calls to local industrial plants and inquire as to if they have buckets about what we need or similar that their raw materials come in and possibly try to claim there disposal? Tomm Smith God bless On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: From Diyode, an incredibly cheap solution to sorting parts: http://www.diyode.com/2014/02/the-bucket-system/ Anyone know of a similar way to acquire such buckets or storage units for free? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] [drama] Re: Proposal: Investing in synhak.org Infrastructure 2: Electric Boogaloo
Thanks Chris for listing some of the logic behind our infrastructure. I think much of the frustration/confusion by the people who haven't built the IT comes from not knowing the reasoning behind why things are the way they are. I know there had been a short list of requirements before for what the IT folk wanted in a service provider/site host service. To the non-initiated some of it seemed like overkill and 'because we want it' rather than absolute necessity or growth factor. I know very little about IT infrastructure and would not end up maintaining anything so I decided to leave it to people who were maintaining it. Ease of use is occasionally worth the extra few bucks(to a point), and I appreciate the fact that all of this is maintained in peoples free time. Torrie: No one is accusing you of purposefully mismanaging or overspending SynHak funds. The concern(as far as I have heard/read) was simply that we have been using AWS for quite some time so it was unlikely anyone had surveyed the market for a better deal. Like I said, ease of use for maintenance can be a deciding factor, as well as Chris's host of legal complaints against certain providers but not everyone is aware of these 'common knowledge facts'. Please consider this in your responses. I agree we have had an increase in bureaucracy in recent months, we have also had more traffic, more risk, and significantly more money than in the previous year. Hackerspaces are new territory for everyone so finding the balance will take some work by the community. There will always be a certain amount of red tape in order to satisfy our grant backers, insurers, and the revenuers, minimizing it is a noble goal. I would question your statement about accusations of action in bad faith. There have been heated disagreements about direction and the best way to reach a goal, but I don't recall anyone accusing someone of sabotaging our mission. I also disagree that anyone is avoiding open conversation. We have 20 members, it is inevitable that some will not be present for every conversation. I myself have asked only a few people for their opinions about things when not everyone is present but I don't see that as avoiding open conversation.Am I mistaken in my belief? Is there some meeting at the bar every Saturday going on that I don't know about? To all: As I re-learned in my critique of build methods, if you don't provide an alternative with your criticism people take it as an attack. I would encourage everyone to be as constructive as possible in their criticism when giving it, and to remember that the person critiquing is probably not intending to attack you personally when you receive criticism. regards, Andrew L On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 14:16:14 Craig Bergdorf wrote: Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6 months now. I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other reason than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :) Torrie: Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken their opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just have a problem with everything'. I can't count how many times you have been on each side of these skirmishes lately. You're completely right. I've been a total bitch about quite a few things. I will make no attempt to excuse my behavior, except that I may have differing opinions about the difference between being excellent and railing against pressure points that others have described to me. imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who wants to contribute. When that majority changes flavors, by design, SynHak changes with it. It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to be a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say you dont get the culture. The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected part of this culture? One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward after so many times others have pulled this space over right now If the something changes to become something I'm not happy with, I either change it or I give up and start something new. There was no culture of hackers here in Akron. Then there was, briefly, for about a year. Now it is being eaten away in favor of executive statements, pre-emptive rules that restrict harmless
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal discussion: Associate Members
I didn't reply due to no concerns as the proposal is laid out here. I guess my question is: Why? Why does someone want to become an associate member? Are they allowed some small storage? They can't be a keyholder since that is a privilege of membership, so it wouldn't grant them additonal access to the space. Perhaps I underestimate the draw of a completely arbitrary title. Since it doesn't really change much I have no reason to block it though. regards, Andrew L On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: No discussion on a mechanism that has the potential to prevent future tension? This makes me sad :( On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:29:34 Torrie Fischer wrote: I'd like to discuss the possibility of an additional class of members based on the success I've seen of using it at Noisebridge. Right now, we've got just one class of members called Members. Some time ago, they introduced a second group called Associate Members. The procedure for becoming an associate member is pretty simple: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Membership#Associate_Members Essentially, you create a User wiki page, find four sponsors (who are other associate members or regular members), then add a category tag to your page. Associate members can't participate in governance or need to pay dues, but it does give a sense of belonging and establishes a network of trust between active community participants who have not become full members and full members. We're a lot more than just a tiny handful of maybe a dozen active contributors! I think we can differ from NB's implementation by requiring that least one of the four sponsors must be a full Member. Since I'm not a fan of using the wiki to maintain any kind of membership records, I'd like to implement something like that in spiff as an implementation of the next milestone of a plugin architecture. Feedback, please! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal discussion: Associate Members
On Monday, March 03, 2014 17:57:16 a l wrote: I didn't reply due to no concerns as the proposal is laid out here. I guess my question is: Why? Why does someone want to become an associate member? Are they allowed some small storage? They can't be a keyholder since that is a privilege of membership, so it wouldn't grant them additonal access to the space. Perhaps I underestimate the draw of a completely arbitrary title. Since it doesn't really change much I have no reason to block it though. It establishes a web of trust model within the space and provides a sense of belonging. If some unknown guest is milling about, one can easily request what their username is and figure out if they are someone that the community trusts to be at SYNHAK. By having a username, it also encourages them to use the infrastructure on synhak.org more, namely the wiki. Additionally, I'm sure there are quite a few people who would love to say I'm a member of SYNHAK, especially visiting hackers. It gives a sense of belonging. For example, I'm not a full Council Member of Noisebridge. I am, however, an Associate Member. In a way, I am a part of the Noisebridge community more than someone who isn't an Associate Member. It gives me warm fuzzies. 3 regards, Andrew L On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: No discussion on a mechanism that has the potential to prevent future tension? This makes me sad :( On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:29:34 Torrie Fischer wrote: I'd like to discuss the possibility of an additional class of members based on the success I've seen of using it at Noisebridge. Right now, we've got just one class of members called Members. Some time ago, they introduced a second group called Associate Members. The procedure for becoming an associate member is pretty simple: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Membership#Associate_Members Essentially, you create a User wiki page, find four sponsors (who are other associate members or regular members), then add a category tag to your page. Associate members can't participate in governance or need to pay dues, but it does give a sense of belonging and establishes a network of trust between active community participants who have not become full members and full members. We're a lot more than just a tiny handful of maybe a dozen active contributors! I think we can differ from NB's implementation by requiring that least one of the four sponsors must be a full Member. Since I'm not a fan of using the wiki to maintain any kind of membership records, I'd like to implement something like that in spiff as an implementation of the next milestone of a plugin architecture. Feedback, please! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal discussion: Associate Members
On Mar 3, 2014 9:29 PM, Tomm Smith root.pac...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Torrie. I am not a member (yet) but am new to the community and in a situation where this would be a nice step to becoming a member. It would give the psych a certain feeling of acceptance to allow for new members to speak up a bit more and get to know the community better, quicker. The new member (given the resources) could then also have opportunity to prove there skills to the community making their acceptance much more likely and swift. Further from this it gives a very established, professional feeling to the new comer and welcomes them in, enriching within them to help build the community and be constructive and creative. One is more likely to buy an item, if they are given a sample at the front door. Not to mention the availability this leaves for the website and digital infrastructure down the road. If the service hosting were to increase, associated members could then get a small webspace with limited priviledges and quite possibly a shell with limited priviledges. This small introductory corner would allow them the sandbox to prove their skills and begin to get a taste of what the SYNHAK community is, in and outside of the facilities. As Torrie was saying, these account types could also be tagged to an academic tracking system that allows members to know and check who has been safety trained to use what machines/tools and any concerns over such. This tagging system could also be used as a means to keep notes on the users and raise issues/concerns or honors/promotions of said associated member, to the members. With maturity and incorporation, I would agree quite strongly with Torrie about this being a rather foundational element of the beginning steps of becoming a member. The structure would then lead towards established professionalism, in turn then leading towards becoming a 501c down the road and contribution to advancing said facilities could benefit the (associated) members by tax exemption. Em, you mean turn SH into a 501c3? Cuz we already are. http://static.synhak.org/documents/bizops/501c3-letter.pdf Just a few agreeances and thoughts. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 03, 2014 17:57:16 a l wrote: I didn't reply due to no concerns as the proposal is laid out here. I guess my question is: Why? Why does someone want to become an associate member? Are they allowed some small storage? They can't be a keyholder since that is a privilege of membership, so it wouldn't grant them additonal access to the space. Perhaps I underestimate the draw of a completely arbitrary title. Since it doesn't really change much I have no reason to block it though. It establishes a web of trust model within the space and provides a sense of belonging. If some unknown guest is milling about, one can easily request what their username is and figure out if they are someone that the community trusts to be at SYNHAK. By having a username, it also encourages them to use the infrastructure on synhak.org more, namely the wiki. Additionally, I'm sure there are quite a few people who would love to say I'm a member of SYNHAK, especially visiting hackers. It gives a sense of belonging. For example, I'm not a full Council Member of Noisebridge. I am, however, an Associate Member. In a way, I am a part of the Noisebridge community more than someone who isn't an Associate Member. It gives me warm fuzzies. 3 regards, Andrew L On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: No discussion on a mechanism that has the potential to prevent future tension? This makes me sad :( On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:29:34 Torrie Fischer wrote: I'd like to discuss the possibility of an additional class of members based on the success I've seen of using it at Noisebridge. Right now, we've got just one class of members called Members. Some time ago, they introduced a second group called Associate Members. The procedure for becoming an associate member is pretty simple: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Membership#Associate_Members Essentially, you create a User wiki page, find four sponsors (who are other associate members or regular members), then add a category tag to your page. Associate members can't participate in governance or need to pay dues, but it does give a sense of belonging and establishes a network of trust between active community participants who have not become full members and full members. We're a lot more than just a tiny handful of maybe a dozen active contributors! I think we can differ from NB's implementation by requiring that least one of the four sponsors must be a
[SH-Discuss] Grant money
Did anyone follow through with the Akron Community Foundation's list of press release material? http://akroncf.org/Nonprofits/FormsResources/PromoteYourGrant.aspx The URL was on our letter: http://i.imgur.com/l5Xnoq7.jpg If not I feel this should be priority number one, we need to show them we appreciate their contribution. Thanks, Devin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] [Board] Board meeting 3/9/2014 7pm.
Correction: I think Devin meant 3/10 .. not 3/9 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:39 PM, degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I would like to announce a board meeting to be held Monday March 9th 2014 at 7pm. The meeting will be held at the SYNHAK. The purpose will be to usher in the new board members and talk about our goals for the year. I have contacted a majority of the members, those I could not get a hold of, let me know if this time will work for you. Thanks, Devin Wolfe Champion ___ Board mailing list bo...@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/board ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] [Board] Board meeting 3/10/2014 7pm.
Yes G, you are correct. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
