[DNG] Welcome to wiki.devuan.org!
Greetings all! Did that get your attention? Good . . . :D The wiki has been languishing in the doldrums for some time in a rather unusable state but it could become a reality if some Wiki Whisperers would step up to make it happen. If anyone here has experience with Foswiki or other wikis, this is your moment to shine! Once it is in a usable state, we will need a team of contributors to begin populating pages with content sourced from the forum, mailing lists, IRC, personal experience etc. Devuan users . . . the ball is squarely in your court. Will Devuan have a wiki? It's up to YOU, ! Discussion here and on dev1galaxy.org and #devuan-wiki. Now . . . . just where are those Wiki Whisperers . . . :D For the love of Devuan . . . just DO IT! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] meta: list
On 2022-08-31 10:04, Curtis Maurand wrote: I’ve been running my own MTA for 15+ years. occasionally I get bounced. recently was bounced by sbcglobal (AT) who doesn’t respond to removal requests. It’s definitely a PITA. However, in all fairness, I was sending to a large group (25 or so)and that might have done it. It’s imperative that you have rdns, spf, dkim and dmarc set up and that it all matches. My MTA will reject you if your ptr doesn’t match your a record and your helo/ehlo hostname. spf, skim and dmarc are all scored via spamassassin. Google rejects, outright, if there is any sort of mismatch in any of that at all. Setting up dnssec for your domain is also helpful. DNG list traffic comes through just fine. Cheers —Curtis I have also run afoul of sbcglobal (AT) for no apparent reason recently and also several other times over the years and yes, there seems to be no recourse to resolve it. A bit heavy handed but not unexpected from a corporate behemoth like ATT. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On 2022-08-01 10:16, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 09:29 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: This "review" that has everybody's knickers in a twist is a tempest in a teapot. Let it go. Instead of getting all worked up about it, get even by joining the Devuan team and contributing something useful towards our next release, Daedalus . . . golinux Your post reminded me I haven't donated for awhile, so I just donated a small amount off money to Devuan. My skills include neither packaging, C++ nor aesthetics, so the best I can do to help further Devuan is to donate. Thanks for the reminder. SteveT Much appreciated, Steve . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On 2022-08-01 01:33, Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 13:29 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in detail? Yes. SteveT No, NO and N! devuan.org is NOT a social media site. FULL STOP! It is an informational website that provides an historical overview, technical information and where to go for support. PERIOD. This "review" that has everybody's knickers in a twist is a tempest in a teapot. Let it go. Instead of getting all worked up about it, get even by joining the Devuan team and contributing something useful towards our next release, Daedalus . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On 2022-07-31 09:14, tito via Dng wrote: On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:29:18 +0100 Peter Duffy wrote: Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in detail? I think yes and to the comments section of the article. Ciao, Tito The appropriate place for that interaction is on dev1galaxy at: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 I don't get the fascination with the mediocre . . . When I originally posted links to the Linux Pro Mag articles last month [1] there was almost no response. golinux [1] https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20220623.052349.41f403e3.en.html ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On 2022-07-31 07:29, Peter Duffy wrote: Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in detail? devuan.org is not a social news service for trivia. If any Devuan articles were to be posted, it should be these: http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_171_Reprint_Devuan.pdf http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_Reprint_Devuan.pdf But beating our own drum publicly invites a response and we really don't need to stir that pot again . . . IMO, of course. We are #2 in Distrowatch rankings (from user reviews not ratings ie the bean counter). That speaks for itself. Run silent, run deep . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] no mails from dng :-( [maybe OT]
On 2022-07-28 06:05, Stefan Krusche wrote: Am Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2022 schrieb Ludovic Bellière: DNG is definitively sending emails, however some host will silently filter out emails without telling you why. I'd suggest either contacting your host Thanks. That's what I've been speculating, too. But I think my provider is ok. They call themselves "political provider" and it's a paid service. However, contacting them may be the way to go. Kind regards, Stefan Yes, Dyne email is currently messed up but not a peep out of Dyne. Trying to sort what is going on . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lennart now working for Microsoft
On 2022-07-08 08:57, Steve Litt wrote: What scares me is if he starts putting Microsoft-centric stuff in systemd, Linux will need to either migrate away from systemd or be subsumed by microsoft. SteveT We'll be there to pick up the pieces . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and say "we told you so"! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Linux Pro Magazine revisits Devuan
Greetings! Shortly after Debian was forked in early 2015, Linux Pro Magazine[1] published an article about Devuan titled "Shiny New Fork"[2]. The first paragraph always makes me smile: "The world is left to wonder if the recent news of a Debian fork is an important event or a minor historical footnote. Either way, it seems like a good story, reminiscent of the Linux stories of the past, when the community really looked and behaved like a collection of individuals rather than a corporate fan club." Earlier this month in Issue 260/2022, Devuan was revisited in a Distro Walk article by Bruce Byfield titled "DEVUAN: The fight for Init Freedom"[3]. He said, "Although Devuan might be a niche distribution, clearly it is a thriving one." Yeah, Devuan is special . . . We have just received a complimentary PDF[4] to share with all of you. Enjoy! [1] https://www.linuxpromagazine.com/ [2] https://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Issues/2015/171/Welcome#article_i3 [3] https://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Issues/2022/260/Devuan/(language)/eng-US [4] http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_Reprint_Devuan.pdf ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] No-Internet Devuan Installer?
On 2022-02-24 14:14, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, Let's say, just for fun, that I expected to be permanently disconnected from the Internet, but still wanted to use my computer, kind of how I used my computer 1985-1995. Is there a way I could install Chimera on DVDs so that I could install Chimera, on any computer with a DVD drive, and use it? Please remember the expectation of permanent disconnection from the Internet, so that security wouldn't be much of an issue. In other words, I'm asking if there's a way I could have a Chimera install DVD set that would act like the Linux install sets back in the 1990's, when there was not an assumption you'd have a connection to the Internet. With Devuan, what would be my best way of doing this, if any? Thanks, SteveT Isn't that exactly what https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ and https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/ devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop.iso and devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop.iso do? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] deb.devuan.org not reachable
On 2022-02-24 10:08, Radisson via Dng wrote: Hi List, i tried to update daedalus but i have problems to reach deb.devuan.org 101 network is unreachable. Is that expected ? what is the alternative ? re, pr You need to use http unless you choose a specific mirror that serves https. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt Perhaps that's the problem? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] PHP 8.1 depends on systemd?
On 2022-01-29 11:14, Roberto Scattini via Dng wrote: El sáb., 29 ene. 2022 13:55, Mathieu ROY via Dng escribió: Hello, Trying to upgrade to PHP 8.1, I found out it now depends on systemd or systemd-tmpfiles (no package available). https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/php8.1-fpm Is it a choice made on Debian side or is PHP now really depending on systemd? This would be a great problem to me (and I suspect many, maybe). PHP is not relevant to my world but perhaps related to this thread? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3331 golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another one bytes the dust
On 2022-01-22 14:01, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, Apparently the Debian project is still using its unalterable yet gameable bureaucracy to screw over those whose opinions differ from Debian's political core... Please view the following email thread by Norbert Preining and others: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html Best I can tell, because of one recent complaint and a review of his "tone" in 2012 to 2014, based mostly on his coc and systemd posts, he was demoted from Developer to Maintainer by the "Debian Account Managers". This led him to either partially, substantially or completely withdraw from the Debian project. A quick web search tells me his view of systemd is not positive. Would it make any sense to invite Norbert Preining to become part of the Devuan project? SteveT I think we should stay out of Debian politics. They are looking for the slightest reason to silence any opposition to the master plan that has been set in motion so this is no surprise. Unless Norbert P. is living under a rock, he is aware of Devuan and is free to join us. Or perhaps he has escaped to the sanity of a deserted island . . . Just my .02. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
On 2022-01-22 13:23, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: On 1/19/22 21:46, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2022-01-19 12:50, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: On 1/17/22 23:17, goli...@devuan.org wrote: [snip]> This is not a trivial task. The many pieces that need to be coordinated are described in this HOW-TO: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md [snip] What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? /Lars In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered my mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on your monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let us have a look. Ok, thanks. I guess from that answer and the others, that aspect might not be so important at the moment in this project. Are the colors for Daedalus chosen already? I see that the one tar ball is about Chimaera: Clearlooks-Phenix-Deepsea. Is that a complete sample? Hi Lars . . . Yes. Colors will never display the same on any 2 monitors. I came to this realization when I first started designing websites 20 years ago and gave up trying. All the files that need to be altered are here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/chimaera-deepsea And the HOW-TO is here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md The process begins with selection of the "base colors" of the Desktop wallpaper. The Clearlooks-Phenix-* theme. The rest of the pieces cannot be created until that color palette has been chosen and finalized: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/chimaera-deepsea/backgrounds What color does the story of Daedalus (and his son Icarus) evoke in your mind? I think of searing Mediterranean sun and intensely blue water. Play with it and see what pops up. Any questions. Just ask. :) Enjoy the journey! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. [cut] I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. This post set off quite a discussion. o1bigtenor suggsted: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Devs discussed the change and agreed that a slightly modified version "init freedom - - - take your first step . . . " was appropriate and it is now on the Devuan site. Thanks to all for the input . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list
On 2022-01-19 18:32, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: Not fixed? Did anybody look at this. Did you send a problem report to the mailing list owner? Thanks for the reports . . . I got bit by this yesterday too. I think (hope) Dyne has gotten it fixed once and for all. Keep your fingers crossed. :) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: About the logo, /if/ That is NOT the Devuan logo. It is a piece of decorative artwork with a message about init freedom which is the reason Devuan exists. It is also present on the Init Freedom page of the Devuan website at: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom THIS is the official Devuan logo: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/devuan-logo-1000x200.png Those interested in the genesis of the logo can find it in these 2 "issues" from our old gitlab starting here: https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.7.html Then finishing here. It took about 2 months to get it right: https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.20.html Thanks to bgstack15 for rescuing that history. Ah, the memories . . . those were heady days!! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-19 14:59, Steve Litt wrote: goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 -0600 On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation. SteveT That image has been part of Devuan's identity and working quite well for the last 7 years and 4 releases. It's hardly a new thing and was designed (not by me) for a specific purpose which seems to have been lost in time. The bike-shedding is quite useless and frankly getting annoying without an accompanying tangible option for us to look at and evaluate. Is everyone really that bored and clueless? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
On 2022-01-19 12:50, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: On 1/17/22 23:17, goli...@devuan.org wrote: [snip]> This is not a trivial task. The many pieces that need to be coordinated are described in this HOW-TO: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md [snip] What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? /Lars In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered my mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on your monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let us have a look. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 20:49, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. golinux Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . " I don't like promising - - - especially too much but I agree even a hint of uncertainty is not a great idea. Regards H . . . I actually like that idea! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I went to the website to find out. I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the Devuan world to see? It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe not, after all". I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. Here is a history lesson that should not be forgotten: https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/ Eroding history is the first step down a slippery slope to the end of freedom. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
Greetings! HELP WANTED! Might that be YOU? Devuan needs someone to take over the branded theming of the Xfce desktop going forward. While I can still do colors, integrating them into the templates has become too much for my old brain to navigate. This is not a trivial task. The many pieces that need to be coordinated are described in this HOW-TO: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md I am happy to mentor/collaborate as needed. So who would like to help make the Daedalus desktop beautiful? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] RGBling
On 2022-01-01 13:29, Simon wrote: Syeed Ali wrote: I have a closed case yet light still leaks out of the back of my PSU. Numlock, desktop speaker, mouse DPI setting, monitors even when asleep, my KVM, and every single port on my USB hub all leak. And then someone invented blue LEDs and suddenly the dark is lost to little floodlights in the colour our night vision is most sensitive to - as every designer decided that it would be “cool” to have a really bright blue LED on an many devices as possible. Just don’t get me started on the id10t who thought making the sleep LED on the front of a MacBook Pro “throb” just to make it even more difficult to ignore. For the last 21 months, my office has been the spare bedroom. I have to switch everything off at the wall when it gets used as a bedroom. To your list add network switch - which flickers all the time with background traffic even when the computers are all off. It’s something when it’s possible to walk around the house lit only by little LEDs - even the smoke detectors are tiny little floodlights, thankfully only dim and green. Simon That design allows the machine to constantly remind us who is boss. It demands our attention and we behave for it. This is our collective future of servitude unless we wake up from our stupor. We are running out of time. The younger generation who has never known anything else may or may not wake up to the fact that like worker bees their only purpose is to tend the machine. Machine 1 | Biological units 0 It's a good time to be old . . . and perhaps, unplug . . . Musings on the machine to commemorate the irrelevant human date designation for the start of the new year. Hellekin - remember him - dated our early Devuan News relevant to the beginning of the Holocene era. That would be a much more honest reference point . . . golinux PS. Credit to Eben Moglen who saw this coming 10 years ago. We have arrived . . . https://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-WhyFreedomOfThoughtRequiresFreeMediaAndWhyFreeMedia ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Yet another test
Thanks for you patience . . . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Test to debug delivery issues
@fsmithred's requrest ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automating the distro?
On 2021-12-07 15:16, Steve Litt wrote: In the long run it's probably going to be advantageous for Devuan to move more toward a distro of its own, before the Debian crowd decide to put in halloween code to sabotage Devuan. SteveT Aren't they doing that already? There are a lot of folks hanging around Devuan who have ideas about what Devuan should/could do and way too few to actually do any work. It is really, REALLY annoying . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 2021-11-27 18:27, tito via Dng wrote: On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 15:39:53 -0600 goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2021-11-27 15:00, Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/11/2021 22:57, Steve Litt wrote: >> Like I said in 2014, >> they won't quit until the cat command requires systemd. > > They won't stop until SystemD is in the kernel, such that Linux > unavoidably is SystemD. > Just have to repost this prescient rant about systemd from 2014. My all time fav! Open letter to the Linux World From: Christopher Barry Date: Tue Aug 12 2014 - 15:35:49 EST http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html golinux Quod rectum erat, id solum bonum hominibus exstimabat Socrates. Tito Tito ... None of the translations I found made any sense. Please enlighten me/us. Thanks, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 2021-11-27 15:00, Mark Rousell wrote: On 25/11/2021 22:57, Steve Litt wrote: Like I said in 2014, they won't quit until the cat command requires systemd. They won't stop until SystemD is in the kernel, such that Linux unavoidably is SystemD. Just have to repost this prescient rant about systemd from 2014. My all time fav! Open letter to the Linux World From: Christopher Barry Date: Tue Aug 12 2014 - 15:35:49 EST http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 2021-11-26 05:08, Peter Duffy wrote: It's a bit like the charlatans and fake doctors in past centuries. They'd invent an illness, and then claim to have a remedy for it: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marthambles LOL! Isn't that exactly what big pharma is still doing with direct marketing to consumers of their latest "cure" for a newly discovered "disease"? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] chimaera and xfce look consistency
On 2021-11-20 16:17, Ralph Ronnquist via Dng wrote: On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:39:06 +0100 Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: Hello, Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: > Hi, > sorry, message was sent without content.. I wonder, something went wrong with Thunderbird which sent out an email when I put the laptop to sleep. What I wanted to write is this. I use xfce since ascii and chimaera: I think it has a consistent look: timeless enough, something between CDE and Windows XP but not so ugly. I refer especially to the windowmanager, smooth design, well usable, not inrusive. Colors, shades changed but it remained. Now, in chimaera, I notice something inconsistent. When opening applications like xterm or firefox, the look of windows decoration is similar, but updated to previous versions. Other windows, however "internal" apps, like system preferences, panels, etc of XFCE look ugly without decorations, similar to windows 10. Is that an intention? or is there some setting inconsistency I did not detect? Thanks for hints. Of course you may understand what I want to restore proper decoration to all windows, not the other way around. What you see there is one of the effects of "Client Side Rendering" which is this new fad that wants to return to the cowboy times of mid-80's where every GUI program implements its own looks and style. It's generally called "progress". And that "feature" can be removed with the nocsd packages: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package=nocsd*=submit and also with one from Debian that rolls back this "improvement" after user protest. Sorry, can't remember the name. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases
On 2021-11-19 16:03, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: I’m waiting to see what comes out of the systemd replacement software in development by Laurent Bercot, the developer of s6. The project now has a corporate sponsor so it would appear someone sees a commercial benefit of his proposed design. I guess only time will tell whether it is enough to dislodge some of the pro-systemd arguments floating around management circles. https://skarnet.com/projects/service-manager.html FYI . . . here is a link to skarnet's presentation at the first Devuan Conference in 2018. Sound is not very good but the slides are informative: Demystifying init – by Skarnet https://youtu.be/I7qE43KK5bY?t=7622 golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is it dead yet?
On 2021-10-27 00:35, spiralofhope wrote: This may be obvious, but a memory testing suggestion: Remove all but one stick With that one stick in a particular slot, memtest If failed, repeat with each single stick in that same slot If all fail, move up a slot and test each stick I know it's a pain, but it might determine if the any/all memory sticks or if the motherboard are bad. I am hardware-phobic but I can do a few things like switch out ram. Some years ago, I got some shiny new sticks to increase my ram to 8 gb. They all seated well but nada. I switched some around several times. Still nada. By this time, I'd had enough, packed it up and took it to my local hardware guy. He removed them all all and basically did the above procedure. Took a while to get them to play nice. Seems that only one configuration of sticks in the 4 slots would work. Hardware . . . grr . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] snetaid debs...
On 2021-10-18 10:07, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: The name "snetaid" made me remember of my now defunct project. Searching on the project's git repository I found it has been removed, so, it is dead and forgotten. Edward Hi Edward, Nice to see that you are still hanging around Devuan. When we moved from gitlab to gitea, contributing developers were given multiple reminders and ample time to migrate their projects to the new format. Many projects fell by the wayside from lack of attention and action on the part of their creators. Isn't Aitor's project based on your work? If so, it is still alive and well! Take care, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Twitch and 2FA (TOTP)
On 2021-10-07 04:32, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote: As it is an object coming generations can't imagine living with, this message is/will be widely accepted without a thought. with -> without, of course. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ The only cell phone I own is without a sim card or account. I only have it so I am able to call 911 emergency services when I'm away from home. As to cell phones that are so ubiquitous . . . think cattle > abattoir . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] connman, wicd, and dbus.
On 2021-09-23 14:10, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 08:07:06PM -0400, tempforever wrote: Removing dbus also seems to have removed network-manager, and I have lost wifi connection. Was able to get on wired with ifconfig, route (and editing /etc/resolv.conf) -- too lazy to use iwconfig. But this may need mentioning in the documentation. Is there a simple alternative to network-manager that doesn't depend on dbus? Anyone know whether connman or wicd work without dbus? -- hendrik The no dbus list that fsr gave to me is: setnet simplenetaid ceni and rrq's networking advice likely would too golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan gitea broken?
On 2021-09-22 07:54, tito via Dng wrote: Hi, is there any problem with devuan's gitea web interface? It loads so slowly that it is impossible to work with it. My connectivity seems ok as all other sites work as expected. Ciao, Tito It seems so! git was extremely sluggish last night when several of us had an impromptu meet to work on updating the website for Chimaera and we were just looking not actually committing anything. Ralph should be able to figure it out. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed
And how is any of this conversation helping Devuan sort out documentation for the Chimaera release? The revised list needing assessment is: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ General information (will need to be updated to Chimaera at the least) Devuan without D-Bus (is this still possible?) D-Bus free software (quite possibly out of date) Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install Thanks, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed
On 2021-09-16 22:30, goli...@devuan.org wrote: You can find the docs that need reviewing here: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ All releases General information Installing Devuan Full disk encryption Network configuration Devuan without D-Bus D-Bus free software Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install I just realized that several of those documents are already updated for Chimaera. Duh . . . Here's the new list: General information (will need to be updated to Chimaera at the least) Devuan without D-Bus (is this still possible?) D-Bus free software (quite possibly out of date) Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install Anything no longer useful/relevant will be removed. Thanks for your feedback! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed
aitor has a network manager in his Gnuinos distribution based on simple-netaid that edbarx put together years ago but iiuc, it is still a wip. KatolaZ wrote the setnet script (no GUI) but it hasn't been touched for years: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/setnet wicd has been the default in Xfce It is brain-dead simple and reliable. Many users are unhappy with the remaining options. I hope that it can be resurrected. golinux On 2021-09-18 16:58, Steve Litt wrote: I thought some members of the Devuan community made something superior to wicd *and* that silly dbus enthusiast network-manager. SteveT goli...@devuan.org said on Sat, 18 Sep 2021 11:27:01 -0500 Thanks for responding. wicd has indeed been removed from Chimaera. Sadly, there are reports of frustration that the available options are not as intuitive as wicd. However, there is hope! Someone is looking at transitioning wicd to python3 so keep your fingers crossed. To fill a gap, rrq has provided a "classic" networking "how-to" that will be included in the www documentation. It is already available on the netinstall isos: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/installer-iso/src/branch/wip/docs/docs/docs/network-configuration.html golinux On 2021-09-18 10:12, Ludovic Bellière via Dng wrote: Hello golinux. I found a reference to a dead software used in the *Network Configuration* section. wicd is recommended as network manager, however it is no longer distributed by debian. It has been removed because it is written in python2, and there has been no release since 2014. As I do not use any manager on my system, I remain unaware of a possible replacement. I did, however, look quickly and noticed connman which advertize itself as a slim and low on resources. As a quick poll, does anybody has a preferred network manager? Ludovic On Thu, 16 Sep 2021, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Request to the Devuan community . . . As we get closer to the Chimaera release, we'd appreciate some feedback on whether the existing documentation listed below, which is applicable to all releases, is still useful/accurate and should be carried forward for use in Chimaera. These documents were written by dev1fanboy aka chillfan who provided updates/corrections from Jessie through Beowulf. Sadly, he has not been seen for a very long time or responded to email queries. You can find the docs that need reviewing here: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ All releases General information Installing Devuan Full disk encryption Network configuration Devuan without D-Bus D-Bus free software Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install Your comments and/or corrections especially on technical issues would be most appreciated. Thanks, The WWW Team ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed
Thanks for responding. wicd has indeed been removed from Chimaera. Sadly, there are reports of frustration that the available options are not as intuitive as wicd. However, there is hope! Someone is looking at transitioning wicd to python3 so keep your fingers crossed. To fill a gap, rrq has provided a "classic" networking "how-to" that will be included in the www documentation. It is already available on the netinstall isos: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/installer-iso/src/branch/wip/docs/docs/docs/network-configuration.html golinux On 2021-09-18 10:12, Ludovic Bellière via Dng wrote: Hello golinux. I found a reference to a dead software used in the *Network Configuration* section. wicd is recommended as network manager, however it is no longer distributed by debian. It has been removed because it is written in python2, and there has been no release since 2014. As I do not use any manager on my system, I remain unaware of a possible replacement. I did, however, look quickly and noticed connman which advertize itself as a slim and low on resources. As a quick poll, does anybody has a preferred network manager? Ludovic On Thu, 16 Sep 2021, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Request to the Devuan community . . . As we get closer to the Chimaera release, we'd appreciate some feedback on whether the existing documentation listed below, which is applicable to all releases, is still useful/accurate and should be carried forward for use in Chimaera. These documents were written by dev1fanboy aka chillfan who provided updates/corrections from Jessie through Beowulf. Sadly, he has not been seen for a very long time or responded to email queries. You can find the docs that need reviewing here: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ All releases General information Installing Devuan Full disk encryption Network configuration Devuan without D-Bus D-Bus free software Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install Your comments and/or corrections especially on technical issues would be most appreciated. Thanks, The WWW Team ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Review of documentation needed
Request to the Devuan community . . . As we get closer to the Chimaera release, we'd appreciate some feedback on whether the existing documentation listed below, which is applicable to all releases, is still useful/accurate and should be carried forward for use in Chimaera. These documents were written by dev1fanboy aka chillfan who provided updates/corrections from Jessie through Beowulf. Sadly, he has not been seen for a very long time or responded to email queries. You can find the docs that need reviewing here: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ All releases General information Installing Devuan Full disk encryption Network configuration Devuan without D-Bus D-Bus free software Minimal xorg install Minimal XFCE install Your comments and/or corrections especially on technical issues would be most appreciated. Thanks, The WWW Team ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)
Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt. My .02 . . . Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is even considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne. And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the financial resources to challenge those who might violate it. Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine preservation. golinux On 2021-09-03 03:46, al3xu5 wrote: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:33:31 +0200 - al3xu5 : [...] But nothing prevents us from using a different verbatim license, perhaps more articulated and specific ... Maybe even a specially created verbatim license! I suggest something like: I forgot ... The license text should be available online, and the URI referenced in the text... It would be like: ~~~ DNG Verbatim Libre License Version 1.0, 1 September 2021 Copyright 2021 DNG <https://www.devuan.org> This License document is released under the following terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License itself. TERMS AND CONDITIONS Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work are permitted worldwide except for commercial purposes, without royalty, in any medium, ensuring content source full availability and exclusive use of completely open and patent-free formats when using any digital medium, provided this notice is preserved. Any strictly personal use is not subject to any limitation. ADDENDUM To apply this License to your works, insert a verbatim copy of the License itself with it, and also add to it the following copyright and license notices: Copyright Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire work is permitted under the terms and conditions of the DNG Verbatim Libre License, Version 1.0. The full text of the License is available at: <https://www.devuan.org/DNGVLL> End of DNG Verbatim Libre License text. ~~~ Regards al3xu5 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] changing init systems on Debian
On 2021-08-15 16:09, Hendrik Boom wrote: Just a heads-up: there's a discussion on the debian-doc mailing list about providing instructions on switching init system away from systemd. It may end up being a link from the release notes to a wiki. -- hendrik Let the walls of the systend citadel come crumbling down and the light of init diversity shine into the darkness! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On 2021-07-20 15:52, Joel Roth via Dng wrote: On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:08:48PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Just in case sombody missed it: https://www.zdnet.com/article/nasty-linux-systemd-security-bug-revealed/ "Systemd, the Linux system and service manager that has largely replaced init as the master Linux startup and control program, has always had its critics. Now, with Qualys's discovery of a new systemd security bug, systemd will have fewer friends. Successful exploitation of this newest vulnerability enables any unprivileged user to cause a denial of service via a kernel panic. In a phrase, "that's bad, that's really bad." It seems that this is the tip of what will be be a very large iceberg. And Debian knows it. They are starting to circle the wagons . . . [...] " Nik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Separate issue with the alpha iso
Regarding the Xfce screenshot of the alpha live-iso posted by fsmithred . . . the eye-shattering icons in the bottom navigation panel are from Xfce. They are NOT part of the deepsea theme. Hopefully a way can be found to return visual sanity. So much for having Linux "your way" in 2021. golinux grumbles . . . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Distrowatch user satisfaction stats
I was poking around distrowatch (I don't very often) and found a page which ranks Linux distros according to user ratings. Devuan is #2! Arch is #1 and Debian and the 'buntus (and other "popular distros) are further down the page: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking If you're interested, you can read the reviews on which that ranking was based at: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ratings=devuan We must be doing something right!! :D golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Collaboration between distros [WAS: FSF and human rights]
On 2021-05-16 15:35, Alexis PM via Dng wrote: There is also PcLinuxOS even if rpm based but they have the full stack systemd free and could be a source of code for devuan as they already solved somehow most of the problems. Systemd free distros should pool their efforts to avoid duplication and to gain critical mass. I'd like to put that onto a broader level: IMHO most of the work to do for distros is about QM (testing, patching, bugfixing) - we should try to consolidate that work, independent of individual distros and their technology. For decades, whenever I package something for some distro, I try to do most of the work in a distro agnostic way. (used to have my own project, called "oss-qm", which collects patches ontop of upstream releases to make up QM'ed branches - unfortunately no distro really showed any interest in that). In essenence, I'm proposing fixing up packages (and individual releases) up to a point where the actual distro-packaging is pretty much trivial. For *most* SW out there we could even invent some universal packaging metadata format, that could be automatically transformed into dist- specific build files. Of course, that only works just *mostly*, since there're still many exceptions. Dh (and its various helpers) is already a great step into that direction, but we could go some steps further and make it useful for completely unrelated distros and even more tricky cases like crosscompiling and tiny embedded scenarios. Standardize the package format of the released versions of each free software project would be a total and desirable revolution. Would it? Or would that standardization make Linux vulnerable to malicious activity and misuse by those who want to control "free-software" in oh so many ways? Christopher Barry's "Open letter to the Linux World"[1] concludes with this: OneLinux == zero-choice [1] http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Please don't imply this kind of equality: was Re: End of free open source software?
Please let this useless thread die and get back to discussions about free software and making Devuan the best alternative without systemd lock-in. Thanks. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware, taking our kernels from Debian?
On 2021-05-02 06:08, terryc wrote: Unfortunately there are systemd libraries installed by Devuan-beowulf desktop installation DVD. [snip] And they are harmless. Why are systemd files present in Devuan? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Script to migrate buster desktop to beowulf v1.8
On 2021-04-17 06:30, tito wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:11:07 +0200 tito wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 00:36:05 +0200 tito wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 00:32:51 +0200 > tito via Dng wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > v 1.8 > > > > now with supported DE's: > > > > 1) GNOME > > 2) LXDE > > 3) LXQT > > 4) XFCE > > 5) KDE > > 6) MATE > > 7) CINNAMON > > > > and minor fixes, improvements and cleanups. > > > > Made script more robust against failures: > > 1) added test for internet connectivity > > 2) check that time and date is correct > > or apt update will fail. Fix it > > with ntpdate-debian if not correct > > 2) added test to check that required deb packages > > download really succeeds > > 3) Move point of no return further down the script > > after most of the checks for prerequisites > > by reshuffling the code a little bit > > 4) remove full paths of programs (as they can > > be different between systems) with the > > exception of /bin/echo (don't want builtin) > > substitute echo with printf > > > 5) fixes for shellcheck > > > > Ciao, > > Tito > Hi, as it seems there is a glitch in the web mail interface that swallows my attachments I will add the latest and greatest migration script inline for the boldest of testers to try. Hope it will not be mangled to much. Ciao, Tito Hi, you can find the migration v1.8 script plus history in the new shiny git repo: https://git.devuan.org/farmatito/migration Testers needed. Enjoy. Ciao, Tito p.s.: is there a way to edit committed commit messages? WOW, tito . . . That's terrific!! Thanks so much for doing that. Now . . . calling all testers! :D Cheers! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Beowulf 3.0.0 won't update
On 2021-04-10 00:28, dva...@internode.on.net wrote: Before installing stuff on my new beowulf 3.0.0, I've run: root@greipner:~# apt-get update Get:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf InRelease [33.2 kB] Get:2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates InRelease [26.1 kB] Get:3 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security InRelease [25.7 kB] Reading package lists... Done E: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. E: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing-updates' to 'stable-updates' N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. E: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing-security' to 'stable-security' N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. Unfortunately, the manpage only says: INFORMATION CHANGES A Release file contains beside the checksums for the files in the repository also general information about the repository like the origin, codename or version number of the release. This information is shown in various places so a repository owner should always ensure correctness. Further more user configuration like apt_preferences(5) can depend and make use of this information. Since version 1.5 the user must therefore explicitly confirm changes to signal that the user is sufficiently prepared e.g. for the new major release of the distribution shipped in the repository (as e.g. indicated by the codename). I.E. the secret method for explicit acceptance is not made explicit AFAICT. OK, there wasn't time to code the flinging up of a query for a [Y/n] response in real time,but what on earth is the current work-around? I'm quite content to try a dist upgrade, to 3.1.1 or whatever is the state of the art, if thatcan safely be done with this brittle 3.0.0 version. Erik Hi Erik, Have a look at this thread: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200601.192228.c35aef7f.en.html golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Default logins for ARM images?
On 2021-04-02 19:26, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote: On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 03:24:30PM +0200, Joril via Dng wrote: Strange, I can see a https://arm-files.devuan.org/README.txt, it contains this annotation: Beowulf 3.0.0 credentials: devuan:'devuan' root :'toor' Beowulf 3.1.0 credentials (rpi-img-builder based): pi:'board' (with passwordless SUDO :-O ) ___ When reading the first post in this thread, I heard "files.devuan.org" instead of "arm-files.devuan.org" and went looking in the former. What I would like to know is where is arm-files.devuan.org referenced off of the main www.devuan.org site? The only references there I noticed about embedded devices go to the forum, and a quick look at the forum pages didn't make it obvious to me that arm-files.devuan.org exists. Perhaps a reference to arm-files.devuan.org should be made more prominent on www.devuan.org if it already exists there? Thanks. Greg Greg, Have you not seen this thread on the forum? Because it is not a community project, it is presented differently that the official devuan isos. Location is: Index » ARM Builds » Installer images for armel, armhf and ppc64 need testing https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3351 There is a link to that thread on the Download page of the website. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
In case you haven't noticed . . . we've already lost that battle. Those of us who oppose the trajectory may huddle in small ponds like Devuan but the masses will follow whatever paradigm our corporate masters/politicians are selling and eventually our "cause" will be lost in time. Humans may be able to manipulate the external world but have no understanding of the internal forces that drive them to, more often than not, make choices that bring nothing but suffering and destruction to themselves and others of our species. golinux On 2021-03-31 11:57, Tony Thedford wrote: I think it goes much deeper than that. In these days and times, those who control the world's software controls the world. It is literally a "good" vs "evil" event. The way we choose to view it will decide our future. On 3/31/21 11:41 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 31/03/2021 à 18:12, Tony Thedford a écrit : I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a destructive goal. One side may be accused of sacrificing to cancel culture and the other to the cult of personality (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights
On 2021-03-26 15:00, Steve Litt wrote: goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:47:59 -0500 Steve Litt and I were threatened with a ban on the debian-user mail list for our anti-systemd opinions in 2014! Actually, he may have gotten hammered. Can't quite remember . . . golinux Yeah, I was banned from posting to debian-user, in October or November of 2014, by that bastion of debianism and proud systemd vote caster Don Armstrong. As far as I know, my ban is still in effect. And just so I'm not accused of libel, the following is the link to Armstrong's assertion that he voted for systemd: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg01367.html For interesting reading, read the link in Armstrong's post (warning, big file), read Armstrong's explanation of his vote, and then go to the top of the file to understand just how bogus the process leading up to the vote really was. SteveT This is by far the best analysis of how the first GR vote went down: Combatting revisionist history http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20=120652 golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights
On 2021-03-26 13:26, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:07:08 +0100 Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: Hi All, Debian is engaging in a disgusting attack against RMS: Yesterday's mistfits -> today's opressors: A warm welcome to autismophobia! I hope we (as humanity) get this resolved, before the tide turns again to hit the schizophrenic - still wondering, how any reasonably sensible person can expect a violent regime change to ever result in a peaceful society (aka "civilization"). Think Rome and thumbs up or thumbs down. Violence escalates when political systems enter their EOL phase (and they all get there). It doesn't help that we keep breeding like cockroaches. Numbers stress the system. We are setting ourselves up for a mass extinction event. Can't happen to soon for me. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights
On 2021-03-26 13:01, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Anno domini 2021 Fri, 26 Mar 18:49:23 +0100 Didier Kryn scripsit: We are supposedly all here in favour of software freedom and freedom in general, which includes freedom of opinions. It seems we have entered a new era of inquisition, with the great inquisitor being the social networks. Are we still free to express personal opinion without the risk of being banned ? Next step is trying to ban opponents to systemd ? You can bet on that. But social networks are just the beginning. Wait for the uploadfilters in EU. It's already begun. Nik Steve Litt and I were threatened with a ban on the debian-user mail list for our anti-systemd opinions in 2014! Actually, he may have gotten hammered. Can't quite remember . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Dng Subscription results
On 2021-03-26 08:59, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: I am trying to subscribe a different account so I can unsubscribe this one. However, when submitting the new address to the web form [1], I get the following error and apparently no action towards subscription: Dng Subscription results Invalid captcha: invalid-input-response Regards, Lars [1] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe/dng Oh no! I thought we had this fixed. I see you have tried to post from a different address and it is in moderation. But if I release it, you will not be able to respond from that address. So I will forward this email to the mail server folks and hopefully they can straighten it out. Nothing good ever comes from a captcha imo. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Bug in mailman and question
On 2021-03-10 10:44, Antony Stone wrote: On Wednesday 10 March 2021 at 10:20:47, vezzoniser...@alice.it wrote: Hi everyone This is just to report that I tried to subscribe to the dng list You appear to have succeeded :) He only succeeded because this moderator took pity on him and released his post from moderation. :) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Jitsi advice please
On 2021-03-05 04:32, Antony Stone wrote: On Friday 05 March 2021 at 11:23:24, g4sra via Dng wrote: In MS Teams, go to your profile (something up in the top right), then Settings and Devices, and there's a button labelled "Make a test call". It plays an announcement, then a ping sound, listens to you speak (or whatever), and then plays it back to you. I know that doesn't help with your Jitsi query, but I just wanted to point out that at least one of the three platforms you mentioned does have the "self test" feature. Hmmm, just thinking . . . Wouldn't that be a great way for MS to capture a voice recognition database and link it to a specific IP? Would that even be possible? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Jitsi advice please
On 2021-03-05 04:23, g4sra via Dng wrote: Can anyone recommend a browser (other than Chrome) that they know works with Jitsi-meet ? I use vivaldi for jitsi (but nothing else). It just works. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan in the news today
On 2021-02-24 21:12, Roberto Scattini via Dng wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 10:29 PM Nelson H. F. Beebe via Dng < dng@lists.dyne.org> wrote: Some of you may wish to look at this story on Google News today: The Best Linux Distributions Without systemd https://www.howtogeek.com/713847/the-best-linux-distributions-without-systemd/ Devuan gets a whole section of the article, which notes >> ... >> Devuan was forked from Debian in 2014. It’s solid and stable and has a >> thriving community. >> ... showed up in my feed, indeed. excellent news! Not quite the same focus but also about Devuan adoption, this was posted in a thread at https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=27695#p27695 : https://all-things-linux.blogspot.com/2021/02/introducing-linux-mint-devuan-edition.html golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan wallpaper licensing?
Thank you Bruce. You noticed how I sidestepped answering that question. Sadly, the finer points of licensing has never sunk in despite the informative interactions we've had with you over the years . . . golinux On 2021-01-27 14:43, Bruce Perens wrote: CC ND and CC BY NC ND would have to go in the non-free section. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:30 AM wrote: On 2021-01-27 12:51, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: > Greetings, > > Which licenses are relevant for contributing wallpapers to the distro? > > Would CC BY-ND [1] be the most appropriate, for photos? What about CC > BY-NC-ND [2] or is there an established license already chosen? > > /Lars > > [1] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/ > > [2] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0 > The only Devuan wallpapers in the official repos are those for the default theme. Why not just open an account on Devuan's git, upload your wallpapers, then post a link on the forum https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 and elsewhere. Choose whichever license that suits you. In the meantime, how about a show-and-tell? :D golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan wallpaper licensing?
On 2021-01-27 12:51, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote: Greetings, Which licenses are relevant for contributing wallpapers to the distro? Would CC BY-ND [1] be the most appropriate, for photos? What about CC BY-NC-ND [2] or is there an established license already chosen? /Lars [1] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/ [2] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0 The only Devuan wallpapers in the official repos are those for the default theme. Why not just open an account on Devuan's git, upload your wallpapers, then post a link on the forum https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 and elsewhere. Choose whichever license that suits you. In the meantime, how about a show-and-tell? :D golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [FLASH] Please no politics on this list
PLEASE stop now. Please STOP now. Please stop NOW! On 2021-01-06 17:18, Linux O'Beardly via Dng wrote: I don't really think this is the forum to discuss such things. In my opinion, politics don't belong here. I can assure you none of you want to hear my politics. On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:26 PM Bruce Perens via Dng wrote: They'll get up again. What we are seeing is the last hurrah of white supremacists who aren't getting their way. On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:55 AM Se7en wrote: The Congress of the United States has fallen. This is NOT A JOKE. The United States Congress has fallen. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-13 08:39, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 09:31:48PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-12-12 21:04, Adrian Zaugg wrote: > On 04.12.20 19:43, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases > > > > Does Devuan not follow the LTS schedule? > > https://wiki.debian.org/LTS > > Because when Debian Releases X as stable, Devuan needs some time to > follow, as such Devuan stable stays for a while with Debian X-1, which > is then under LTS as oldstable. At least it was with Jessie very much > the case. With Jessie was this a coincidence or is that rather a rule? > > Regards, Adrian. > Yes. That is correct. The lag between Debian stable and the corresponding Devuan stable release is why we recommend using the release name rather that the suite name in /etc/apt/sources.list Please see https://www.devuan.org/os/releases for more information. Where the Devuan release codenames chart sems to be up-to-date, but the examples in the Codenames or suites? section still refer to Beowulf as testing. Which was probably correct "As of this writing" but is no longer correct and potentially confusing. -- hendrik Thanks for catching that, Hendrik! All updated now. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-12 21:04, Adrian Zaugg wrote: On 04.12.20 19:43, goli...@devuan.org wrote: You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases Does Devuan not follow the LTS schedule? https://wiki.debian.org/LTS Because when Debian Releases X as stable, Devuan needs some time to follow, as such Devuan stable stays for a while with Debian X-1, which is then under LTS as oldstable. At least it was with Jessie very much the case. With Jessie was this a coincidence or is that rather a rule? Regards, Adrian. Yes. That is correct. The lag between Debian stable and the corresponding Devuan stable release is why we recommend using the release name rather that the suite name in /etc/apt/sources.list Please see https://www.devuan.org/os/releases for more information. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-04 14:25, Adam Borowski wrote: On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 12:43:25PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I > don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 > more months of ascii support a safe bet? You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released and there is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's release of Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM to guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. Stretch has been oldstable for 1.5 years already. Sorry about that. Of course, I meant Buster . . . It's all becoming a bit of a blur these days . . . A guesstimate for Bullseye's release is June, although effect of actions to shorten freeze time remains to be seen. And of course, Chimaera will be sometime after that. The more hands on deck, the sooner that will happen. But currently, as requested, please do what you can to test the proposed updates to be included on the Beowulf 3.1 point release. golinux Meow! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-04 02:26, Simon Walter wrote: On 12/4/20 10:47 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-12-03 19:39, Simon Walter wrote: Hi all, First of all, sorry if I missed this in the docs somewhere. I had a look around the website and particularly https://www.devuan.org/os/releases has no info. When can I expect oldstable to move to archived? I suppose I should keep an eye out for a Chimaera BETA announcement and then change is imminent. Thanks, Simon ___ When chimaera stable 4.0 is released, ascii will become oldoldstable and archived. That won't be happening anytime soon afaik. We do have a beowulf point release in the works. golinux I have a lot of systems running ascii and no plan to upgrade them yet. I don't want to upgrade when ascii is archived but before. Do you think 6 more months of ascii support a safe bet? You might want to have a look at Debian's release schedule: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases Stretch will not go to oldstable status until Bullseye is released and there is not even release date set yet for that to happen. Devuan's release of Chimaera will be sometime after Bulleye becomes stable. No way ATM to guesstimate when in 2021 that will happen. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oldstable and Archive timing expectations?
On 2020-12-03 19:39, Simon Walter wrote: Hi all, First of all, sorry if I missed this in the docs somewhere. I had a look around the website and particularly https://www.devuan.org/os/releases has no info. When can I expect oldstable to move to archived? I suppose I should keep an eye out for a Chimaera BETA announcement and then change is imminent. Thanks, Simon ___ When chimaera stable 4.0 is released, ascii will become oldoldstable and archived. That won't be happening anytime soon afaik. We do have a beowulf point release in the works. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] US mirror is broken? Failed to fetch http://us.deb.devuan.org Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.13 80]
On 2020-12-02 10:25, crich...@blackfoot.net wrote: Hi, I was trying to update something a bit ago, and it failed. I ran apt update, then: apt install libsasl2-2 libsasl2-modules, and got this output: . Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y Err:1 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 libsasl2-modules-db amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.13 80] Ign:2 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 libsasl2-2 amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 Ign:3 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 libsasl2-modules amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 Err:1 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 libsasl2-modules-db amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.13 80] Err:2 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 libsasl2-2 amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.13 80] Err:3 http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 libsasl2-modules amd64 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3+deb9u1 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.13 80] E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing? I didn't try -fix-missing, since this seems more a server issue. Trying to pull up http://us.deb.devuan.org/ in a browser gets a NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID error. router1:/var/log# host us.deb.devuan.org us.deb.devuan.org is an alias for pkgmaster.devuan.org. pkgmaster.devuan.org has address 54.36.142.183 pkgmaster.devuan.org has address 5.135.82.179 router1:/var/log# host 130.89.148.13 13.148.89.130.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer klecker-archive.debian.org. Navigating to klecker-archive.debian.org directly seems to work fine. Suggestions? Thx, Chris There is no US mirror. Use deb.devuan.org or choose one from https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt Package information can be found at https://www.devuan.org/os/packages golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] problematic mouse driver?
On 2020-11-17 07:16, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 06:07:31AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote: About the time I upgraded to Bwowulf I experienced periodic problems having the mouse pasting scanneted text with middle mouse button. I find that sometimes the mouse remembers scanned text but then is unable to paste it. The problem comes and goes with my wired mouse but is always present with my wireless mouse. It primarily occurs when copying text from a GUI application such as displayed by a browser and then pastting it into a text based application such as nano. But I find that I can (usually?) correct the problem by scanning and pasting a bit of text in nano and then do it with a GUI application. Anyone have any idea of what might be going on? A wild guess. Linux has over the ages acquired (at least) two cut and paste mechanisms -- one from the underlying X system, and another from the desktop systems put on top. They don't always agree as to what has to be cut and pasted; I suspect each has its own paste buffer. They oftern communicate but not always. There have been occasions where I have had to cut in one pieve of software, paste into emacs, and then cut from emacs with the other mechanism and paste where I intended originally. Also: a lot of mouses have a middle scroll button that doubles as a middle clickable button. There can be a mechanical problem here; when I click on my middle button, I sometimes get a click, sometimes one step of a scroll (usually upwards), and sometimes both. Annoying. It takes come carefulness to get the signal I want. -- hendrik My old PS2 rollerball mouse developed this annoyance with a middle scroll click even in jessie. So nothing new. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't and I have to recopy. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Jessie to Ascii upgrade
On 2020-11-14 18:06, d...@d404.nl wrote: On 14-11-2020 22:36, Fred wrote: Hello, I want to upgrade from Debian Jessie to Devuan. Apparently all I need to do is change the sources list and do a dist-upgrade. Is this likely to go smoothly? If there are any problems I would probably not have Internet to ask for help. How does the upgrade get rid of systemd and everything associated with it? Or how does one do that? Best regards, Fred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Coming from Debian you maybe should change your sources list first to deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged jessie main and install the devuan-keyring and sysvinit-core before you move over to devuan ascii. Grtz Nick deb.devuan.org no longer works for jessie because it has been archived at http://archive.devuan.org/merged/ jessie but . . . atm rrq is messing with that server so it will be out of commission for a while. I just tried and it's dead, Jim . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rspamd 2.5 for Devuan 3 Beowulf
On 2020-11-07 06:22, Mike Tubby wrote: Yes, I did this change to /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib deb-src http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib deb http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main non-free contrib deb-src http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main non-free contrib deb http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main non-free contrib deb-src http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main non-free contrib #deb http://gb.deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main This nugget from the packages page of the Devuan website: "Country Codes (CC) are currently unavailable but a specific mirror from the list can be accessed using the corresponding BaseURL." So use deb.devuan.org or choose a specific mirror: http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt Don't ask me why . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] No Sound in XFCE Beowulf - Pulsaudio
On 2020-10-31 17:20, Antony Stone wrote: On Saturday 31 October 2020 at 23:07:42, goli...@devuan.org wrote: There is a reason the Devuan team takes the time to write Release Notes. I only wish that more users would take the time to read them: An admirable comment - I only ask - how are such notes brought to people's attention when they're going through the installation or upgrade process? Antony. Preparation should not be an after-thought. The Release Notes are included at the source of the isos: http://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/ and all the mirrors would have identical content. In addition, the Release Notes as well as installation instructions are included on the isos using the Debian installer. I know because I picked the short straw to prepare that documentation. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] No Sound in XFCE Beowulf - Pulsaudio
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:34:30 -0700 Michael K. wrote *establishing connetion to pulsaudio, please wait * (a fresh installed Beowulf wth XFCE has no Sound. ) There was a hint once before on the list to edit "something" in a Pulsaudio file. But I can't find this info anymore. What do I have to do to get back in contact with the sound mixer? Thanks in advance Michael There is a reason the Devuan team takes the time to write Release Notes. I only wish that more users would take the time to read them: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/Release_notes.txt golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ?
On 2020-10-29 15:24, radisso...@gmx.de wrote: Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2020 um 20:31 Uhr Von: "Antony Stone" An: dng@lists.dyne.org Betreff: Re: [DNG] devuan ? On Thursday 29 October 2020 at 19:31:10, radisso...@gmx.de wrote: > Do you want to continue? [Y/n] > Err:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main amd64 linux-libc-dev amd64 > 4.19.118-2 404 Not Found [IP: 130.225.254.116 80] > Unable to correct missing packages. > E: Failed to fetch > http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux/linux-libc-dev_4.19.118 > -2_amd64.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 130.225.254.116 80] E: Aborting install. I too experience this from time to time with mirrors.dotsrc.org I jut repeat the command, and provided I get a different IP destination, the package installs. It seems to me that there's some problem with one of the servers mirrors.dotsrc.org points at - the IP address presumably reveals which one. So far i understand it is a RR. When i tried to find it (with browser) i had no success. Is there any way to really check it ? http://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html Antony. -- In Heaven, the beer is Belgian, the chefs are Italian, the supermarkets are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers are French, the entertainment is American, and everything is organised by the Swiss. In Hell, the beer is American, the chefs are British, the supermarkets are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the entertainment is Belgian, and everything is organised by the Italians. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
On 2020-09-16 17:53, Larry De Coste via Dng wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:49:19 +0200 Tito via Dng wrote among other things: |we should team up with other distributions that are no-systemd, |e.g pclinuxos (but there are others debian based) which have resolved |this problems already having various flavors of full-fledged DEs. antiX has a great Debian-testing distro using runit with jwm, icewm, or fluxbox. FYI . . . the person who maintains antix is on the dev1galaxy forum almost every day so there is already some cross-pollination happening. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Made The List
On 2020-09-15 14:02, Linux O'Beardly via Dng wrote: 10 Best Debian-Based Linux Distributions https://www.tecmint.com/debian-based-linux-distributions/ Promoting Beowulf with a screenshot of the Jessie desktop. Get it together tecmint . . . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
On 2020-09-13 01:14, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:11:48 -0500 goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-09-12 15:28, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > I think Devuan might want to "put back" POSIX commands Debian has > removed (but provides packages for). See the following thread from > Debian-User: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00334.html > > Lennart Poettering has repeatedly and with certainty let us know he > has no use for POSIX. I guess now the Debian project is acting as > his proxy in this matter. > > Did you notice the one guy who said it would be "it would be 'rude' > to impose something wanted by only a part of the users"? > > Personally, if my operating system doesn't come, as a baseline, with > vi, ed, cut, grep, sed, awk, bc, dc, diff, dd, df, du, fg, head, > tail, and the like, then it isn't an OS I'd want to use. The fact > that an OS isn't certified POSIX is no excuse for deliberately > leaving out easily included POSIX programs and features. > > Is it possible for Devuan to "put back" what Debian sabotaged? > > Thanks, > > SteveT > Probably. Are you going to volunteer to do/oversee that? Nope. My volunteering these days is difficult, much more important than any Linux distro, and not bothered with by about 98% of the population to which it's crucial. I'm blowing off time I really should be working to do this volunteerism, and have no remaining time to learn package-managership and then herd all the cats into accepting my packaging solutions. If I sound like an asshole, it's because I've had a very frustrating several days, during which no good deed I did went unpunished. SteveT (to the sound of a mournful violin) We all have priorities and those priorities will set the course of the future of Linux as we have known it. But there are much bigger issues on the horizon than POSIX. Heck, there are much bigger issues looming than the future of Linux . . . A link to this rant was posted on FDN yesterday. I had never heard of Luke Smith before and was not particularly impressed with either his presentational style or his bemoaning the death of white, male privilege but . . . I could very well imagine Linux going down the path his "nightmare" imagines. https://libre.video/videos/watch/b576019d-8957-4efb-8571-6a14e0889136 If Debian doesn't wake up and reverse course what will become of Devuan? The entire Linux ecosystem as we have known it could become a nostalgic footnote in the history of the digital age. It's a good time to be old . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility
On 2020-09-12 15:28, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, I think Devuan might want to "put back" POSIX commands Debian has removed (but provides packages for). See the following thread from Debian-User: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00334.html Lennart Poettering has repeatedly and with certainty let us know he has no use for POSIX. I guess now the Debian project is acting as his proxy in this matter. Did you notice the one guy who said it would be "it would be 'rude' to impose something wanted by only a part of the users"? Personally, if my operating system doesn't come, as a baseline, with vi, ed, cut, grep, sed, awk, bc, dc, diff, dd, df, du, fg, head, tail, and the like, then it isn't an OS I'd want to use. The fact that an OS isn't certified POSIX is no excuse for deliberately leaving out easily included POSIX programs and features. Is it possible for Devuan to "put back" what Debian sabotaged? Thanks, SteveT Probably. Are you going to volunteer to do/oversee that? That would be the best way to ensure that it happens. This article was posted on irc a few days ago. It might, in part, explain why packages/features are being dropped from Debian. If Debian can't find developers, what do you think Devuan's future holds? DPL: Debian project has plenty of money but not enough developers Project leader Jonathan Carter explains problems facing this key Linux distro https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/10/debian_project_address/ Beyond Debian/Devuan, this is a challenge for the future of community-provided free software. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-05 01:34, goli...@devuan.org wrote: I'll try to get the content on the drive archived over the weekend and ready for long-term storage. A bit of a followup . . . first I deleted all the files in lost+found and the drive didn't explode. Then deleted some files in the remaining directories and finally copied many GB of new data. It took quite a long time and required babysitting so a bit of a pain. Finally, I ran the SMART short test and no errors were reported. I compared the current SMART data with the one taken after the fsck and only the poweron and hours running etc. had changed. So it looks like the drive is working normally again. Keeping track of all this is taking way to much brainspace . . . Again, thanks to all. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 22:33, Gregory Nowak wrote: On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 09:19:42PM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Status command failed: scsi error medium or hardware error (serious) SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check. You said this is a USB attached drive. That probably showed up because the USB bridge doesn't support passing a given SMART command(s) to the drive. Thanks for the explanation. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE --- snip --- 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 199 199 140Pre-fail Always - 1 So we know that one sector was reallocated. Whether that happened when e2fsck attempted to write to it, or earlier, we don't know. Yes we do! I checked a log I had saved from before I did the e2fsck and those values are identical to the post-e2fsck log. 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 199 199 000Old_age Always - 1 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000Old_age Offline - 0 Other than that one sector, the rest of the drive looks to be useable so far. I'll try to get the content on the drive archived over the weekend and ready for long-term storage. SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00%55 - Again, that confirms to me the drive reallocated one bad sector, and the rest of it seems to be OK so far. YEA! SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 100 Not_testing 200 Not_testing 300 Not_testing 400 Not_testing 500 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): You asked about this in an earlier message. The selective test portion is used to report the status of the automatic testing the drive does by itself if that's enabled, and your smartctl output shows that automatic self tests are enabled on your drive. All the above says is that the drive isn't running automatic self tests right now, so nothing to worry about here. Got it. Your comments have been helpful. Thanks. golinux Greg ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 22:26, Simon Walter wrote: On 9/5/20 11:19 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-09-04 20:46, Simon Walter wrote: On 9/5/20 1:34 AM, Andreas Messer wrote: Hi golinux, On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:50:07AM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-09-01 00:07, goli...@devuan.org wrote: [...] I have no idea how reliable the repaired drive is after this radical surgery. Can it be written to or files deleted? Should I even try? [...] I wouldn't use a drive anymore which has started reallocating sectors, well which has reallocated sectors all. It's on it's way out for sure. However, I am interested in how you are able to know that sectors on golinux's disk have been relocated - from the information provided to this mailing list. I know it's possible to see that in the SMART data, but I didn't see that posted. Are short reads always surface errors? Best regards, Simon Simon . . . SMART data attached. I hadn't noticed this before . . . sounds ominous . . . SMART Status command failed: scsi error medium or hardware error (serious) Note that I ran this from GSmartControl not a terminal. I think it's because you are connected via USB. From my experience, the best way, possibly the only thorough way, to diagnose a SATA disk drive is connected to a SATA controller directly, which is why I really like notebooks that have eSATA ports. My board doesn't have an eSATA port. Neither does the new dock but at least it is USB 3.0. Current enclosures are 2.0 . . . I have gotten this error over USB before. When connecting the same disk to a known working SATA controller, I was able to use it fine and no errors occurred. USB -> SATA controllers/cases in my experience are of poor quality and fail before the disk does. I am not one to hang on to a failing disk, but you sound thorough. So I'd suggest using a SATA controller to read the SMART data and run other diagnostics. Exploring an eSATA controller is an adventure for another day . . . If you are a data hoarder and like disks, I'd suggest getting your hands on some hardware that has a SATA controller. It doesn't need to be fancy or new. Pretty much any working desktop is fine. You're suggesting the disks get tested in the case itself, right? Like any hardwarephobe, that's something I really, REALLY don't like to do. In your SMART data: Reallocated_Sector_Ct = 1 However: SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED Reallocation, to my knowledge, should happen in the background. It's *possible* that the reallocation event and the FS corruption are unrelated. I'll keep an eye on that though I won't be accessing this disk often once it gets trimmed down and some additional files written to it. You probably noticed from the log that it doesn't even have 100 hours or run time on it. If that count keeps going up, don't use the disk. Eventually the surface will not be able to store data/be magnetised. Understood. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 22:25, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 02:47:38PM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: A few posts after yours Hendrik suggested checking the lost and found directory and in it I found 57 folders and 15798 other items totaling 16.6 GB. They are mostly edits from audacity (.au) and avidemux (in C). Also some wav and mp3 and graphics stuff too. I couldn't find the associated mpgs or isos and there seems to be some other things missing here and there. Everything in the lost and found can be deleted. Maybe if I do it in small chunks, it won't explode. LOL! Delete the contents all you want, but keep the lost and found directory. -- hendrik Understood. I realize that directory is necessary and would only delete the contents. But a reminder is always good and might be useful to someone else. :) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 20:46, Simon Walter wrote: On 9/5/20 1:34 AM, Andreas Messer wrote: Hi golinux, On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:50:07AM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-09-01 00:07, goli...@devuan.org wrote: [...] I have no idea how reliable the repaired drive is after this radical surgery. Can it be written to or files deleted? Should I even try? [...] I wouldn't use a drive anymore which has started reallocating sectors, well which has reallocated sectors all. It's on it's way out for sure. However, I am interested in how you are able to know that sectors on golinux's disk have been relocated - from the information provided to this mailing list. I know it's possible to see that in the SMART data, but I didn't see that posted. Are short reads always surface errors? Best regards, Simon Simon . . . SMART data attached. I hadn't noticed this before . . . sounds ominous . . . SMART Status command failed: scsi error medium or hardware error (serious) Note that I ran this from GSmartControl not a terminal. golinux smartctl 6.4 2014-10-07 r4002 [i686-linux-3.16.0-4-686-pae] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-14, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Western Digital Caviar Green Device Model: WDC WD10EACS-00D6B1 Serial Number:WD-WCAU49079944 LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 202a5ed4c Firmware Version: 01.01A01 User Capacity:1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated) SATA Version is: SATA 2.5, 3.0 Gb/s Local Time is:Fri Sep 4 21:05:44 2020 CDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Status command failed: scsi error medium or hardware error (serious) SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check. General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity was suspended by an interrupting command from host. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection:(24000) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities:(0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time:( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time:( 275) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time:( 5) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported. SCT Error Recovery Control supported. SCT Feature Control supported. SCT Data Table supported. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 198 196 051Pre-fail Always - 1183 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0027 160 160 021Pre-fail Always - 6991 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 66 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 199 199 140Pre-fail Always - 1 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 100 253 000Old_age Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 56 10 Spin_Retry_Count0x0032 100 253 000Old_age Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000Old_age Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 19:24, spiralofhope wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2020 15:03:55 -0500 goli...@devuan.org wrote: ...2 new 500 GB WD Black drives... You have good taste. LOL! It's a learning process if you're paying attention. Note that the funky drive I'm currently playing with is a 1 TB WD Caviar Green. I've had a Black arrive DOA but once they are running it's always been like the Energizer Bunny. Not sure if they still have the 5 yr. warranty though . . . While I'm here I'll post the Selective Self-test log which supposedly completed without error a few minutes ago. It took just over 4 hours. It doesn't look quite right to me; I thought there would be more verbose details. Am I missing something? I have never run this test before: Complete selective self-test log: SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 100 Not_testing 200 Not_testing 300 Not_testing 400 Not_testing 500 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. Some comments on exactly what that means would be appreciated. Do I need to do something else? Should I now have more confidence in this drive? Thanks again. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 11:34, Andreas Messer wrote: Hi golinux, On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:50:07AM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-09-01 00:07, goli...@devuan.org wrote: [...] I have no idea how reliable the repaired drive is after this radical surgery. Can it be written to or files deleted? Should I even try? [...] I wouldn't use a drive anymore which has started reallocating sectors, well which has reallocated sectors all. During manufacturing the drive, it can happen that some sectors are bad, but these sectors are already "reallocated" during the manufacturing end test and will not show up in the SMART information. When a magnetic disc drive starts reallocating sectors, it is an indicator that something within drive starts to be become bad/broken. (Or even has been from the beginning of its live) There is a high chance, that one will observe more and more reallocations. And this is a guarantee for data loss. Just for the record: The magnetic drives in my 24/7 NAS are starting/stopping about 5 to 10 times a day (standby), according to SMART these drives now have roughly 15k start/stops and about 7k power on hours: They don't have a single reallocated sector. If you can afford it, I would suggest you to replace it. cheers, Andreas Andreas . . . it's always good to get feedback from those with more experience than I. I don't have much confidence in hardware coming right OOTB. Of the items I've purchased over the years, quite a few have been DOA or failed shortly thereafter for whatever reason. This particular drive has no data that is not backed up elsewhere so I am comfortable experimenting with it a bit as a learning experience. OTOH, trashing the remaining life it has for no reason wouldn't make sense. I have some older spares that I can reuse and 2 new 500 GB WD Black drives waiting to be formatted. BTW . . .thanks for fixing apt in chimaera. :D golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-04 05:38, Simon Walter wrote: On 9/4/20 3:50 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Well . . . I decided to run an fsck on the misbehaving harddrive. It started off by identifying the errors and rewriting them and then went through Free block counts, Inode bitmap differences and Free inodes and directory count. Some snippets of the output are posted below. I did not stick around to watch all of it so may have missed something. It took a long time to sort itself! Out of curiosity, was it connected via eSATA or USB? I forgot what kind of dock you got. The drive is still in the external case. Connection is USB with AC adapter. Testing it on the dock would have been the next step. I did finally get the dock out of the box but have not fired it up yet. I am old, slow and methodical . . . When it finished, I mounted the drive without issue and could read the remaining directories and files. However the /media/xx/cstwo/600 directory mentioned in the original mounting error below was nowhere to be found: "Error when getting information for file '/media/xx/cstwo/600': Input/output error." It's possible that data is not actually gone and can be recovered if you know what you are looking for. However, as you stated, you have a copy of the data elsewhere. A few posts after yours Hendrik suggested checking the lost and found directory and in it I found 57 folders and 15798 other items totaling 16.6 GB. They are mostly edits from audacity (.au) and avidemux (in C). Also some wav and mp3 and graphics stuff too. I couldn't find the associated mpgs or isos and there seems to be some other things missing here and there. Everything in the lost and found can be deleted. Maybe if I do it in small chunks, it won't explode. LOL! Then I ran the SMART Short offline test and it completed without error I have no idea how reliable the repaired drive is after this radical surgery. Can it be written to or files deleted? Should I even try? From my experience, SMART data is reliable. To give some idea, I have experience with over a hundred disks since they started to include SMART. So probably not that much compared to others on this list. I would say there is no problem with the underlying disk and the corruption occurred at the filesystem level, which is one reason an entire directory is missing, rather than at the disk level. If you want more assurance, run the long test. You can get some idea of how quickly your drive is deteriorating by monitoring changes to the SMART data (smartd). I've been able to predict failure before it happens. It's never been sudden. So if your disk "PASSED" it's probably fine to use it. Modern disk drives will move your data to good sectors when it detects failure looming in bad sectors. So head failure is an issue, and can also be predicted by SMART data. Mishandling of drives is something that SMART can't predict of course. ;) Thanks for the useful info Simon. I will run the long SMART test later today. Best regards, Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-09-01 00:07, goli...@devuan.org wrote: Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread (some off-list). I just wanted to drop a short note updating you that the dock arrived earlier today but I haven't yet had a chance to open the box. I am not an impulsive person. I tend to measure 6 times and cut once! So it's going to take me a while to sort through all the suggestions and decide how to proceed. I'll post when I have figured that out and the stars align. Stay tuned . . . golinux Well . . . I decided to run an fsck on the misbehaving harddrive. It started off by identifying the errors and rewriting them and then went through Free block counts, Inode bitmap differences and Free inodes and directory count. Some snippets of the output are posted below. I did not stick around to watch all of it so may have missed something. It took a long time to sort itself! == root@devuan:/home/xx# fsck /dev/sdc1 -y fsck from util-linux 2.25.2 e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014) cstwo contains a file system with errors, check forced. Pass 1: Checking inodes, blocks, and size Error reading block 40042498 (Attempt to read block from filesystem resulted in short read) while getting next inode from scan. Ignore error? yes Force rewrite? yes Error reading block 41943042 (Attempt to read block from filesystem resulted in short read) while getting next inode from scan. Ignore error? yes Force rewrite? yes yada, yada == Free blocks count wrong for group #6302 (22328, counted=25579). Fix? yes Free blocks count wrong for group #6678 (21, counted=22). Fix? yes Free blocks count wrong (72019929, counted=75713399). Fix? yes yada, yada == Inode bitmap differences: -(20021249--20021280) -(20971521--20971552) -(21250049--21250065) -(23756801--23756811) -(25772033--25772051) -(25772053--25772057) -(25772059--25772064) -(25772067--25772069) -(25772073--25772074) yada, yada == [ending with] Free inodes count wrong for group #6278 (13844, counted=14355). Fix? yes Directories count wrong for group #6278 (19, counted=0). Fix? yes cstwo: * FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED * cstwo: 191841/122109952 files (1.9% non-contiguous), 168476601/24419 blocks == When it finished, I mounted the drive without issue and could read the remaining directories and files. However the /media/xx/cstwo/600 directory mentioned in the original mounting error below was nowhere to be found: "Error when getting information for file '/media/xx/cstwo/600': Input/output error." Then I ran the SMART Short offline test and it completed without error I have no idea how reliable the repaired drive is after this radical surgery. Can it be written to or files deleted? Should I even try? Thanks to all and especially g4sra for detailed suggestions and advice. Now onto the next project needed to moving on from jessie at long last. Take care all, golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread (some off-list). I just wanted to drop a short note updating you that the dock arrived earlier today but I haven't yet had a chance to open the box. I am not an impulsive person. I tend to measure 6 times and cut once! So it's going to take me a while to sort through all the suggestions and decide how to proceed. I'll post when I have figured that out and the stars align. Stay tuned . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-08-29 22:15, Gregory Nowak wrote: On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 09:15:13PM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M of=/dev/sdx That will just erase the first megabyte of the drive, leaving utilities like cfdisk to think the drive is new and unformatted. It won't attempt to over write the bad sector(s) though. See the other message I posted on how you can try to over write just the bad sector(s) faster. Greg Gregory . . . the detailed instructions in this and your previous email are very helpful. Thanks for catching the error. If needed, I will use this command as you suggested: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx I think this can be marked as "solved" for now. Will post an update in a week or so. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
I was wondering if a reformat might be possible but if it requires the nuclear option so be it. LOL! I've only had to dd a handful of times so searched and found this command to zero a drive. Will that get the job done? Any idea how long that might take on a 1 TB drive? There is cost|benefit|aggravation to consider . . . dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M of=/dev/sda In any case, I'll wait till the dock arrives for further testing to make that decision. Thanks again. Nice to see that you're still hanging around the campfire . . . :) On 2020-08-29 19:52, Bruce Perens wrote: If you just want to reuse the physical drive, without the data, there is a way to do that. Write zeros the entire length of the block device. If there are enough spare sectors left on the disk, the bad ones will be relocated as you write them. The various disk tools will then tell you what the overall health of the drive is. On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 4:12 PM wrote: On 2020-08-29 17:15, Bruce Perens via Dng wrote: > Copy the block partition (not the mounted files) to a same size or > larger > blank block partition using ddrescue or gddrescue. Try to mount that > read > only and copy the files off. If it doesn't work, try to restore the > superblock using one of the tutorials online. > Thanks Bruce . . . Unfortunately, I don't have spare 1 TB drives laying around. Since that drive is an exact copy of another still working drive, no critical data has been lost so no need to copy files. I'm guessing that this failure is beyond fsck . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-08-29 18:13, terryc wrote: On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:35:01 -0500 goli...@devuan.org wrote: PS. There is no critical data on this disk because I always keep multiple backups. But it would be nice to have that drive functioning in some capacity. The only other suggestion is 'the put it in the freezer trick' which may work until it warms up again, if it is an electro-mechanical derived fault. LOL! I've never had occasion to do that but always wanted to try. I'll wait to see how it works in the dock to eliminate any hardware failure in the enclosure first though. Will report back in a week or so - shipping is really slow these days . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-08-29 17:15, Bruce Perens via Dng wrote: Copy the block partition (not the mounted files) to a same size or larger blank block partition using ddrescue or gddrescue. Try to mount that read only and copy the files off. If it doesn't work, try to restore the superblock using one of the tutorials online. Thanks Bruce . . . Unfortunately, I don't have spare 1 TB drives laying around. Since that drive is an exact copy of another still working drive, no critical data has been lost so no need to copy files. I'm guessing that this failure is beyond fsck . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?
On 2020-08-29 16:52, Dimitris via Dng wrote: On 8/30/20 12:35 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: advice is most welcome. Thanks, Dimitris . . . maybe a "long shot" , but did you try another cable/adapter/case for that disk? Yes. Tested different usb and adapter. Have ordered a dock which will be able to test the bare drive. Hopefully it will arrive in working order. You know how that goes . . . a few badblocks (?) would slow down the whole disk and maybe not open some folder(s)... "input/output error" and smart "read failure" could be something else. It's not showing any file structure, just a blank page in the file manager when the message pops up. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Can this drive be saved?
Dear Dev1ers, I have an oldish external 1 TB backup drive that is throwing up this mount error. Drive is single ext4 partition about 70% full: Error when trying to mount: Failed to open directory "cstwo". Error when getting information for file '/media/xx/cstwo/600': Input/output error. Here's the GSmartControl Self-test log. Note that the drive only has 40 hours on it! SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 90%40 412352591 # 2 Extended offlineCompleted: read failure 90%40 412352591 In the Attributes data the Reallocated sector counts are hilighted in pink in 3 places. What are the chances of fsck repairing the bad sectors? I shamefully admit I have not thought about fsck for years. IIRC, it used to run automatically at boot (Squeeze?) which made boot times quite frustrating. So I would occasionally run it manually at a more convenient time with commands like this (from old saved bash history): # fsck.ext3 /dev/sdd1 # e2fsck.ext3 /dev/sdd1 Now that prior knowledge has vanished - I can't even remember what e2fsck is for - and the above commands may or may not even be valid in 2020. I actually read man fsck - at least most of it - and there is this option which seems like it would be a good idea: -N Don't execute, just show what would be done. S . . . will something like this give me any useful info? And if it doesn't explode, can I just run the command itself? # fsck.ext4 /dev/sdc -N Or am I looking in the wrong direction. I am rather hardware-challenged. :D Thanks for slogging through this. Your advice is most welcome. golinux PS. There is no critical data on this disk because I always keep multiple backups. But it would be nice to have that drive functioning in some capacity. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] latest wireshark-common/ceres depends on libsystemd0
On 2020-08-25 16:42, Dimitris via Dng wrote: was -rarely- using wifite, that depends on tshark+wireshark-common, but can live without it.. but was wondering.., should i file a bug report in debian or a new RFP in devuan? debian seems to ignore/discard any non-systemd reports lately, so it would probably stay in wishlist for ever there, eg. #964139. thx, d. Sure, send reports to Debian - with a patch if possible - so they are aware that their hostile decisions are not appreciated. In time they might even decide to be more cooperative. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Question
On 2020-08-25 16:42, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2020-08-25 16:34, Ian Zimmerman wrote: On 2020-08-25 08:47, Joril via Dng wrote: > Have found that devuan 3.0 or Beowulf is the present stable > product. Is there a 'testing' equivalent Devuan product? I believe you are looking for Devuan Chimaera? See https://devuan.org/os/releases Can you mix releases with the /etc/apt/preferences file, as you can in Debian? On my debian systems I have installed buster, but the preferences file makes a few packages come from bullseye, and another few from buster-backports. Sure it is possible but do so at your own risk. In any case, you get to keep all the pieces https://beta.devuan.org/os/releases https://beta.devuan.org/os/packages https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian golinux Sorry about those URLs - working on the site atm. This is better . . . https://devuan.org/os/releases https://devuan.org/os/packages ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
