Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Template field on the General page of the document properties

[planas]

Gary

On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 11:29 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote: 

> Does anybody know how sure whether or not that a document file generated 
> from a template would automatically have the template filename 
> automatically inserted in the Template field of the General page of the 
> document properties (File > Properties > General)? I somehow thought 
> that was the case; however, it does not work on the test documents I 
> created today by a few test templates (version 3.3, I think...). I am 
> using version 3.4.3.

The behavior I see with Writer when opening a custom template is that
the new document name is "Untitled #". I did find a setting to change
this behavior. This behavior is similar to what I remember from MSO;
using a template results in a new document Named "Untitled #". 

> 
> If so, would that particular field have to be preset in the template? I 
> inserted an entry in that field in the template proper, and it still did 
> not automatically carry over to the copy. Does this field need to be 
> manually inserted in a document? Or might this behavior be a bug?
> 
> The online Help for the template field reads:
> 
> 
> Template:
> 
> Displays the template that was used to create the file.
> 
> 
> On another matter, I have got about the first one-third or so of my 
> copyediting tutorial online today. So, if anybody would review and check 
> it out for accuracy, I would appreciate it. Its URL is:
> http://technicaleditor.livernoisyard.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58&p=48#p48
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Gary
> 
> -- 
> 
> Gary Schnabl
> Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...
> 
> Technical Editor forum 
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Need someone to review Getting Started with Base (GS Ch8)

[planas]

Jean

On Sun, 2011-10-16 at 16:40 +1000, Jean Weber wrote: 

> I recall that one or more people expressed interested in working on
> Base documentation.


I should be back working on Base documentation this week. On of my major
projects is finally wrapping up. 

> 
> Could someone please volunteer to review Getting Started with Base (GS
> Ch8) for any errors, or for changes in LO v3.4.x that mean updates are
> needed to the doc? It's mostly a matter of following the instructions
> and seeing if they work. It's a long chapter, so may take awhile to
> review properly. More than one person can work on it at the same time
> (on separate copies of the file), especially if you review different
> parts of the chapter.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --Jean
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] About fdo#40162 - Missing section in README_en-US installation instructions

[planas]

Tom,

On Sat, 2011-10-01 at 11:39 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: 

> Hi :)
> Ahh, That page ;) lol
> 
> I thought it was good and had been editied recently.  I think that one might 
> be best split into a few short sub-pages such as 
> Debian
> Ubuntu & other Debian family distros
> Mageia / Mandriva and family
> Redhat family distros
> openSUSE distros
> Slackware
> Arch
> Many of those are probably about the same anyway.  
> 
> On the main page something generic such as "As Root User do ... " and then 
> later a "Now as normal user ... ".  I think the only differences between the 
> distros is the file ending (either rpm or deb ie requires yum or dpkg or 
> apt-get) and whether the distro has the "sudo" command by default to avoid 
> needing to use "su" or logging in as Root.  Hmm, that does suddenly look 
> complicated but it's really not as bad as i made it sound i'm sure!  
> 
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 

Actually the install procedure for Linux is very similar for each
distribution, it is the details that make it sound difficult: sudo vs
su, etc.
Another option is to right click and use "Open With" and select the
Software Installer/Package Manager. This probably better for newbies. 

> 
> --- On Sat, 1/10/11, David Nelson  wrote:
> 
> From: David Nelson 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] About fdo#40162 - Missing section in 
> README_en-US installation instructions
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Saturday, 1 October, 2011, 11:01
> 
> Hi Tom, guys,
> 
> Yes, it is probably a very good solution to provide links to other
> external documentation.
> 
> When I originally re-worked the Linux readme and the Linux
> installation instructions, I especially had in mind the idea of
> providing comprehensive instructions for inexpert users.
> 
> But covering Linux in such instructions is more complicated than other
> operating systems, because of the multiple distributions that need to
> be covered.
> 
> However, I have to admit that the resulting installation guides and
> the readme probably constitute as much of a barrier to easy
> installation for a newbie as the complexity (for a newbie) of a
> command-line installation process.
> 
> So a re-working is definitely necessary. What we currently have is
> rather "spaghetti code-like", especially after all the comments at the
> time were worked into the drafts.
> 
> -- 
> David Nelson
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Errors and suggestions for Writer User Guide

[planas]

John

Attachments are stripped off by the listserver. Can you post the
document and provide a link to it.

On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 20:29 +0100, John Smith wrote: 

> Hi
> I was working through the Writer guide to learn about Mail Merge and
> have picked up a number of points to bring to your attention. Most, but
> not all, relate to chapter 11; Using Mail Merge.
> I hope they're of some use to you. They are contained in the attachment.
> Regards
> John Smith
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fw: [libreoffice-users] new book

[planas]

Tom,

On Tue, 2011-08-09 at 13:28 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: 

> Hi :)
> I don't know what the "strange page break ...  on page ... 488 (PDF version) 
> or 
> 487 (ODF version)." is in the "Getting Started".  Anyone else had a problem 
> with 
> it?  I've not noticed anything.  
> 
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Forwarded Message 
> From: Tom Davies 
> To: us...@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Tue, 9 August, 2011 13:06:41
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] new book
> 
> 
> Hi :)
> Pages in any word-processing format often display different between one 
> machine 
> and another due to, for example, printer settings.  Pdf is a format that 
> displays the same on every machine but not if it's made after changes have 
> occurred. The proper Pdfs are available for download 
> 
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Johnny Rosenberg 
> To: us...@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Tue, 9 August, 2011 12:35:34
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] new book
> 
> 2011/8/5 Andrew Douglas Pitonyak :
> > I am actively adding content to this release of the book. I am currently
> > working through the Calc section. When I finish with that, I will move on to
> > the next section, which is not yet in the document. The German translation
> > is on chapter 7 I believe.
> 
> Great book. I downloaded it and exported it to PDF. I found a strange
> page break however, on page 488 (PDF version) or 487 (ODF version).
> Just thought you wanted to know…
> 
> I also wonder why the page numbers of the PDF (the one I exported to
> myself) are not the same as those on  the ODF, but that has probably
> nothing to do with the document itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Johnny Rosenberg
> ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ
> 
> > On 08/05/2011 08:49 AM, rogerio dandrea wrote:
> >>
> >> new book
> >>
> >> http://www.pitonyak.org/OOME_3_0.odt
> >>
> >> :0)   thanks Pitonyak  for the excellent work
> >>
> >> :0) From Brazil
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Pitonyak
> > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> >

When I have page numbers be different is when the document was done on
one computer with specific printer settings and it was
printed/viewed/converted on another with a different printer. Sometimes
just changing the printer on a computer will cause this type of behavior
especially if switching type of printer.
-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base

[planas]

Hi,

On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 12:17 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: 

> Hi :)
> There is no plan.  No effort is being made to attract people to it and no 
> plan 
> to do that.  No thought given to why devs and others avoid it even if they  
> started out being keen to work on it.  
> 
> 
> The greatest amount of support Base gets is from a couple of people that hope 
> that someday there might be some improvement.  Hoping that pigs might fly 
> doesn't make it happen.  
> 
> 
> I think that makes it score 1/10 on a scale of something worth migrating to.  
> The 1 is because it works really quite well for most people most of the time 
> right now.  
> 
> 
> It is great to see people on the Users mailing list;
> 1. giving coding patches in answer to individual problems
> 2. helping regression test java and other dependencies 
> 3. helping users switch from one back-end that 'should' work (but is broken) 
> to 
> another that does work.  
> 
> These are not trivial issues that the average office worker is likely to be 
> able 
> to solve without a lot of hand-holding and intensive step-by-step help in the 
> Users list.  People experienced with  MS Access are not used to having to 
> deal 
> with those sorts of problems.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: David Nelson 
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Fri, 5 August, 2011 10:30:21
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My 2 cents would be that Base is an important asset for LibreOffice.
> It may have its fragilities at the moment, but I feel that it should
> definitely be kept in the suite and that we should still work on
> documentation for it.
> 
> I'm trusting that the project is going to, at some time hopefully
> soon, acquire some devs to work on it. After all, all of the
> components of LibreOffice can be improved in some way or other, but
> they're all progressively getting attention.
> 
> Base's turn will come, too.
> 
> -- 
> David Nelson
> 
> -- 
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My experience, unscientific observations, is that most users avoid any
true database whenever possible for routine uses and will use a
spreadsheet. To use any database well requires more design and knowledge
than simply slapping together a spreadsheet. A good database design must
answer several design questions, very similar to software design.
Essentially, a well designed database models logical groupings and the
relationships between the groups within the data thus making easier to
maintain and access. 

SQL is not particularly hard to learn if you have some programming
experience but difficult for non-programmers. Queries are often very
straight forward but SQL requires accurate obedience to its syntax rules
much like a programming language.
-- 
Jay Lozier
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base

[planas]

Jonathon,

On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 17:43 +, toki wrote: 

> On 08/05/2011 04:07 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote:
> 
> > I remain concerned about TDF's abandoning it, with the result that it 
> > slowly falls apart with each release, 
> 
> For all practical purposes, the database component of OOo was treated
> like the red haired stepchild. Under the TDF, LibO has simply continued
> that mistreatment.
> 
> > I'm planning to try using it as interface to an sqlite backend very soon, 
> > as that engine will surely meet my needs.
> 
> When the discussion about which _additional_ database engine OOo should
> include. HSQLDB won, and SQLite lost. From my POV,the only reason HSQLDB
> won, was because it used Java. At the time, it was technically inferior
> to SQLite.
> 
> In an ideal world, there would be an extension that installs SQLite as
> if it were built into LibO, and provide a usable UI for database
> creation, editing, and viewing.
> 
> > but the real issue for me isn't the db engine but the interface.
> 
> This relates to who creates databases.
> 
> There is a lot of useful theory, and practice in database construction
> and maintenance. For most projects, applying that theory would be
> helpful. Which is why database designers are very reluctant to allow
> non-database designers to create databases.  Or, more bluntly, don't
> like pre-built tools that non-database designers can use, to create, and
> use databases.
> 
> The simple reality is that when there is not an obvious, easy way to
> construct a database, people will use spreadsheets, blithely ignoring
> the fact that spreadsheets can, and will destroy their data. Then, since
> most people use spreadsheets instead of databases, development of
> database tools for Joe Sixpack gets lowered in priority, eventually
> reaching the point that databases for mortals are considered irrelevant.
> 
> > I need to be able to design and run forms. If I don't use Base to do
> this, what else is there in the opensource world?
> 
> PERL, Python, Ruby, etc.
> 
> > I'm a bit baffled by the database engines that present themselves to the
> world bare. Apparently one just writes one's own interface for them,
> 
> Historically, database engines have shipped without an interface. The
> user was expected to write their own UI. This presents the fewest
> restrictions on the database designer.
> 
> By way of example:
> I create resources for various Bible study programs.  These all use
> databases for the content. With a generic UI, I can't force record 31102
> to be Revelation 22:21, or validate Vulgate versification as it is
> entered. With a custom UI, Vulgate versification can be input, and the
> data automatically converted to KJVA versification.
> 
> >For the non- IT-professional this is essentially a non-starter.
> 
> Database designers are the last hold out in the IT World, thinking that
> they are gods, and nobody else is pure enough to do what they do.
> 
> All that said, I do think that a manual that focuses on using the Base
> component as a front end to PosgreSQL, MySQL, Mariadb, Drizzle, MS
> Access, etc. A second manual, focusing exclusively on SQLite might be
> justified.
> 
> jonathon
> -- 
> If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting.
> 
> If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth
> requesting.
> 
>   DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw.
> 

MS access is not available expect over a network for Linux users.  I
agree with you on manuals for using Base as a front end.

-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base

[planas]

Tom

On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 22:07 -0600, Tom Cloyd wrote: 

> On 08/01/2011 05:48 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > I have been getting the same impression of Base as Jean.  Apparently Base 
> > has
> > different unpredictable flaky quirks in different releases.  There appear 
> > to be
> > too many complex issues for any of it to be sorted out in a reasonable
> > time-frame.
> >
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Jean Hollis Weber
> > To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> > Sent: Tue, 2 August, 2011 0:08:31
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base
> >
> > On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 19:25 +0200, Sigrid Carrera wrote:
> >> Hi Tom,
> >>
> >> On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 18:13:42 +0100 (BST)
> >> Tom Davies  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi :)
> >>>
> >>> I think we should avoid writing any documentation for Base.  I have kept
> >> trying
> >>
> >>> to encourage people and draw in people that seemed keen to do some but 
> >>> now i
> >>> agree that we should abandon any effort on it.  It seems that TDF is not
> >> going
> >>
> >>> to do anything to support Base so there is no point in documentation for 
> >>> it.
> >>> Apparently most linux users prefer PostgreSQL or MySQL/MariaDB (or 
> >>> Drizzle on
> >>> the Cloud) so it seems we should point people to those rather than Base.
> >>>
> >> I don't understand your reasoning? Why wouldn't you want to write 
> >> documentation
> >> for
> >> Base? You still need documentation, if you want to use Base as a frontend 
> >> to
> >> connect to one of those databases that you mentioned. So, in my opinion, 
> >> there
> >> is
> >>
> >> some need for user docs. We should definitely tell people, that the 
> >> built-in
> >> database is not really secure, but that they can choose any other database 
> >> they
> >> like.
> >>
> >>
> >> So, definitely not dropping.
> >>
> >> (My opinion, of course.)
> >>
> >> Sigrid
> >>
> > I was under the impression that some (or much?) of LibreOffice Base
> > doesn't work, so people get very frustrated in trying to use it. Is that
> > true? Or is the problem only with the built-in database, but Base works
> > fine as a front-end to other d/b? If the latter, then yes we should
> > certainly document how to use it as a front-end to other databases... if
> > we can find people with the knowledge and time to write that
> > documentation.
> >
> > --Jean
> >
> >
> Tom and all,
> 
> I'm new to Base, but have been using it intensely for a number of weeks 
> now, most lately with that java reversion we talked about a little while 
> back. It's fast, and crisp, and just works. No burps yet.
> 
> All I can say is that is works fine for me, and is more stable than the 
> MS Access version I worked with for years. I remain concerned about 
> TDF's abandoning it, with the result that it slowly falls apart with 
> each release, but right now I don't have a complaint.
> 
> I'm planning to try using it as interface to an sqlite backend very 
> soon, as that engine will surely meet my needs. MarionDB certainly looks 
> interesting, but the real issue for me isn't the db engine but the 
> interface. I need to be able to design and run forms. If I don't use 
> Base to do this, what else is there in the opernsource world? I keep 
> looking, and so far simply haven't found anything. Am I the only one 
> with this need?
> 
> I'm a bit baffled by the database engines that present themselves to the 
> world bare. Apparently one just writes one's own interface for them, 
> yes? For the non- IT-professional this is essentially a non-starter. I 
> simply don't have the time.
> 
> Any thoughts on this, anyone?
> 
> Tom
> 
> ~~
> Tom Cloyd / t...@tomcloyd.com / (435) 272-3332
> 

MarianDB uses MySQL so it will connect to Base using the MySQL ODBC/JDBC
methods.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base

[planas]

Jean, Tom, Sigrid

On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 09:08 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 19:25 +0200, Sigrid Carrera wrote:
> > Hi Tom, 
> > 
> > On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 18:13:42 +0100 (BST)
> > Tom Davies  wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi :)
> > > 
> > > I think we should avoid writing any documentation for Base.  I have kept 
> > > trying 
> > > to encourage people and draw in people that seemed keen to do some but 
> > > now i 
> > > agree that we should abandon any effort on it.  It seems that TDF is not 
> > > going 
> > > to do anything to support Base so there is no point in documentation for 
> > > it.  
> > > Apparently most linux users prefer PostgreSQL or MySQL/MariaDB (or 
> > > Drizzle on 
> > > the Cloud) so it seems we should point people to those rather than Base.  
> > > 
> > 
> > I don't understand your reasoning? Why wouldn't you want to write 
> > documentation for
> > Base? You still need documentation, if you want to use Base as a frontend 
> > to 
> > connect to one of those databases that you mentioned. So, in my opinion, 
> > there is 
> > some need for user docs. We should definitely tell people, that the 
> > built-in 
> > database is not really secure, but that they can choose any other database 
> > they like. 
> > 
> > So, definitely not dropping. 
> > 
> > (My opinion, of course.)
> > 
> > Sigrid
> > 
> 
> I was under the impression that some (or much?) of LibreOffice Base
> doesn't work, so people get very frustrated in trying to use it. Is that
> true? Or is the problem only with the built-in database, but Base works
> fine as a front-end to other d/b? If the latter, then yes we should
> certainly document how to use it as a front-end to other databases... if
> we can find people with the knowledge and time to write that
> documentation.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

I have been testing MariaDB, a recent fork of MySQL. It can be the back
end for Base and you can set up Base to talk to it once you get the
correct connectors installed. The connection is easier using JDBC than
ODBC.

Let work on it some I will get something together showing how to use
Base with MySQL/Maria and later PosgreSQL, If we do this we may want to
give some instructions on setting up the back end database. I have found
the overall documentation quality rather poor for MySQL. They assume you
are intimately familiar with your system so they refer to default
location without telling one what the default location is.

Someone bug this weekend about looking at this in more detail.

-- 
Jay Lozier
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wikipedia

[planas]

David

On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 21:16 +0300, David Nelson wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > I found a page about Calc in Wikipedia
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Calc
> > but it's heavily branded as the OpenOffice version.  Writer has 2 pages.  
> > One
> > for OpenOffice and 1 for LibreOffice.
> >
> > Would it be better to move towards having just 1 page for each application 
> > and
> > then link to OpenOffice, LibreOffice or NeoOffice when appropriate?  
> > Specific
> > pages such as the OpenOffice Calc page could then be extremely short and 
> > very
> > specific since most of the stuff would already be either in  the main
> > cross-product page for Calc or in Apache's documentation?
> >
> > I imagine each of the 2 lists will diverge in particular points but i don't
> > think everything needs to be repeated on both lists.
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> 
> My humble 2 cents would be that there should be an equivalent page to
> this one that covers LibreOffice Calc alone. I know that people often
> seem to refer to LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org as kind-of twin
> products, but I'm betting that this will be less and less the case as
> time goes by and differences between them accumulate.
> 
> Would someone (maybe yourself?) feel like tackling that task on Wikipedia?
> 
> -- 
> David Nelson
> 

I have Wikipedia account and if can get something together this
week(end) I can get it posted this weekend.

-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Getting Started Guide_Setting up Libreoffice

[planas]

Hi,

On Fri, 2011-07-08 at 04:43 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote:

> On 7/8/2011 4:02 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
> > Le 08/07/11 09:45, Gary Schnabl a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> >> My common-sense take on this (non)issue is that Microsoft would actually
> >> not object to any such public exposure of their GUI than in suppressing
> >> it, as it provides free advertising for the (now-obsolete) product.
> >> Ditto for Apple.
> > Common sense is often not the reflection of the law. Is the DMCA a piece
> > of common sense legislation ? Is the EU Copyright Directive a piece of
> > common sense legislation ? Some might say yes, many others, including
> > myself (as an IP lawyer), no, given the extent to which the powers
> > extended to IP rights holders may be wielded. Debate is irrelevant in
> > the end, the rights in the "work" exist - either they are respected or
> > they aren't, but IMHO that is for the SC to decide and not for the
> > documentation subproject.
> >
> >
> > Alex
> 
> And there are some paranoid types today who think that legal (or 
> governmental...) permission is needed in order for anybody to "take a dump."
> 
> Attorneys always can be expected to do those things that further their 
> own business interests, BTW, some of the worst (legal) advice or laws 
> purposely are created by attorneys--who either do or else should know 
> better).
> 
> I have been fairly inactive the past year in my efforts as a technical 
> editor since my first OOo involvement in OOo documents (primarily as the 
> editor of the the Writer Guide for a while or template development 
> during the really lean-personnel days of OOoAuthors) beginning back 
> during 2006 for me. So, I have not been "reading the mail" in this and 
> other lists until fairly recently concerning OOo/LO document matters. 
> However, I thought from my occasional reading of posts in this list over 
> the past year that Jean Weber initially considered the changeover from 
> Winfows XP silver screenshots in the OOo documents (used by LO as the 
> major basis for newer LO docs) as being somewhat unnecessary.
> 
> My point being: I, for one, will not worry myself or fret over any use 
> of indirectly proprietary screenshots ever appearing in my own 
> documents. That puts me firmly in the vast majority of writers or 
> editors in this regard. However, if any group or organization wants to 
> avoid doing that--for whatever reason, even foolish ones--that is OK 
> with me, too.
> 
> Gary
> 
> -- 
> 
> Gary Schnabl
> Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...
> 
> Technical Editor forum 
> 
> 

The relevant legal issue is the that the copyright is valid and will be
valid for many more years on Windows design elements. Under US copyright
law the minimum length of a valid copyright is something like 70 years,
so the XP copyrights will be valid for about another 60 years or so. The
are two safe ways to avoid being sued: get permission from the copyright
owner or do not infringe at all. The permission should be in writing,
signed by authorized owner representative. To my knowledge the TDF does
not have permission from Microsoft for use in of MS elements in a
screenshot.

The only way the copyright can expire before its statuary term is for
the owner to put the work (as it is called) into the public domain.
Alternatively they can issue the work under a creative commons or
"copyleft" type grant allowing users to use the work freely with
possible stipulations about attribution. To my knowledge MS has not done
either for the Windows design elements.

To gave an example, as an amateur photographer I own the copyright to
all my photos from the moment of creation under US copyright law. Unless
I grant you permission to use any of my photos I have the legal right to
sue for damages and will probably win. I can give different
people/groups different permissions for the some the work. 

If something is a trademark, the trademark holder must show that they
will defend their trademark. Translation, they must sue trademark
infringers aggressively or risk losing the trademark and any related
brand value from it. This is different from copyright where the owner is
not obligated to aggressively protect the copyright from infringement. I
do not know what is specifically a trademark on the Windows GUI nor do I
want find out by being sued. Coca-Cola is very aggressive about
protecting their trademark "Coke" from infringement. If you call a cola
you server in your cafe Coke, it had better be Coke and not Pepsi or
some other cola. Coca-Cola is known to sue over this.

The fact that others may use something without getting permission does
not mean that we should also. It is not a valid defense in court.

I suspect that most publishers know enough to get the appropriate
permissions prior to publishing and releasing a work. It is possible
they could a blanket agreement allowing certain uses for any work
pub

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started Guide_Setting up Libreoffice

[planas]

Hi,

On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 06:55 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

> Quoting Tom Davies :
> 
> > Hi :)
> > Lol.  Why all this change of direction?  and why did this suddenly   
> > occur moments
> > AFTER Jean left for a couple of weeks?
> >
> >
> > Ignoring the advice of legal experts based on a quick read of a   
> > children's fairy
> > story does not make any sense to me.  From a quick google search
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._TomTom
> > http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._TomTom_%282008,_USA%29
> > MS sued a company for using fat32, not even the more advanced Ntfs, and won.
> > Fat32 is pretty much the standard system used by the vast majority
> > of people on
> > external storage devices.  Being unaware of court actions and being   
> > unaware of
> > the strategy MS uses (such as buying-up software patents) does not   
> > make us safe
> > from those issues.
> >
> >
> > It would be really paranoid to think that Gary might be an MS   
> > employee but he is
> > using fairly standard tactics that would normally be designed by a   
> > competitor to
> > disrupt a community-led group.
> 
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/05/2012229/Microsofts-Hottest-New-Profit-Center-Android?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> rday
> 
> 

Unless someone is willing to spend the time and money to properly
research the US legal issues, the safest course is avoid any chance of
putting us into a possible legal crosshairs. I have neither. The problem
is that no one has come forward who is US  attorney and knowledgeable on
software related issues to advise us. MS could consider LO as a direct
competitor to MSO and thus would look for our legal blunders committed
out of ignorance of US law.  

It may be more tedious for us to make sure our screenshots do not show
anything that would imply a Windows OS but it is safer. I doubt any
Linux distro would be upset if their desktop was identifiable in one of
our screenshots. In fact a subtle plug could made by saying all the
screenshots were made on various Linux distros. Many Windows users think
we are command line using dinosaurs and would be surprised to see a
vaguely familiar desktop.
-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide

[planas]

Hi, Gary and All

On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 18:50 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote:

> On 6/30/2011 4:27 AM, Marc Paré wrote:
> >> Based on my experience as a K-12 teacher a decade ago, I know that 
> >> kids do not bother to read texts, even if assigned as homework. So, 
> >> users will do as much as they can on their own before consulting the 
> >> online help or user guides.
> >>
> >> One reason for low book sales is that much fewer users will bother to 
> >> read books nowadays.
> >>
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Hi Gary
> >
> > Some schools do operate on a set programme, for example, at my primary 
> > school, although I teach French Second Language, I am in charge of 
> > teaching Word (Writer) basics to grades 4-5; PowerPoint (Impress) to 
> > grades 6,7 and until a couple years ago, our previous grade 7 teacher 
> > was in charge of teaching Excel (Calc) to grades 8 and advanced macros 
> > in preparation to high school. The "Getting Started Guide" would be a 
> > great addition to any Library collection for student referral/reference.
> >
> > In my experience, there is still a small segment of the student 
> > population that do read manuals and they usually pass on their 
> > knowledge to others in their class.
> >
> > I have thus far taught for 18 years as Math, Science and Technology 
> > consultant (primary and secondary schools); classroom teacher; 
> > computer classroom specialist and French Second Language specialist at 
> > various times during these years. I am presently off on disability for 
> > crushed spine and complications but hope to get back to class soon.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Marc
> >
> 
> Late in my (engineering and other things) career, I taught at both 
> public and private K-12 schools, last teaching back in 2001. All of the 
> schools were long computerized by then. During the computer labs, most 
> of the kids were "taught" by teachers, who only a few months earlier 
> typically taught subjects as social studies and the like and were most 
> often only a day or three ahead of their students in subject matter--if 
> that.
> 
> Most kids then learned office-suite apps mostly by intuition because 
> those apps were designed that way from day-1. At one middle school, 
> during the computer labs I dropped in on my kids on occasion. Once, one 
> kid asked me to help him with a simple problem. I first inquired what 
> the on-line help suggested. He did not even know (primarily because lazy 
> teachers often do not teach such useful things...) that there even was 
> any on-line help. So, I interrupted the class (although the 
> newly-ordained computer-lab--previously an older social-studies teacher 
> at the school--teacher initially objected) so that they all knew about 
> how to use on-line help from the Help menu.
> 
> At another school--a private K-5 school where I taught the fifth grade, 
> at one half-day in-session (kids go home early those days) the 
> administration was discussing ways to save money, if possible. Waking up 
> from a short nap, I suggested that the school fire the young woman who 
> taught their computer labs because she was incompetent. To my surprise, 
> that suggestion was instantly accepted, and the teachers were ordered to 
> teach their own classes in the computer lab.
> 
> One little snag though. Not all the teachers then were computer 
> literate. So, I took over some of the computer labs and had those 
> teachers teach (or baby-sit) my fifth grade class during those times.
> 
> I again assert that people most often will not employ user guides, or 
> even the on-line help, and will usually ask somebody else for help, as 
> any problems occur.
> 
> 
> Gary
> 
> -- 
> 
> Gary Schnabl
> Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...
> 
> Technical Editor forum 
> 
> 

I have seen too many people who would not use any help or user guide to
find any information. Also, once most users can do their tasks they
rarely ever move beyond that point. 

-- 
Jay Lozier
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide

[planas]

Jean

On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 11:04 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> Now that we are getting close to having a full set of rebranded user
> guides for LibreOffice (based on the OOo guides), I would like to put
> forward for discussion some major changes to the Getting Started guide.
> (I have made the same proposal to the OOo group, but the two guides do
> not need to remain in parallel if the two groups choose different paths
> to improve them.)
> 
> 
> The Getting Started guide was originally intended to be no longer than
> 200 pages, but it is now closer to 400 pages. I would like to cut out
> some chapters and make them into standalone guides, drop some material
> that is covered in other books and IMO is no longer needed in this one,
> slightly reorganise what's left, and add some pointers to the other
> books and documents. Details below. The main goal is to improve the
> book's usefulness for new users; decreasing the page count is a
> secondary goal.
> 
> 1) Remove Chapter 8 (Getting Started with Base) and make it a standalone
> document. It is 52 pages long (longer than the Math Guide) and I think
> would be more useful to beginning Base users if it's standalone. Also, I
> think the vast majority of new OOo users will NOT be using Base.
> 
> 2) Remove Chapter 9 (Getting Started with Math) because it duplicates
> the first part of the Math Guide and is therefore not needed here.
> 
> 3) Remove most of Chapter 12 (Creating Web Pages) because the info is
> given in the guides for Writer, Impress, etc and is really little more
> than an export function; it could be mentioned briefly in the chapter on
> Printing, Exporting etc. Info on hyperlinks needs to be put somewhere
> else; I don't have a specific suggestion on this, but it didn't really
> fit in this chapter anyway, since it's relevant to more than web page
> creation.
> 
> 4) Combine Chapter 2 (Setting up OOo) and Chapter 14 (Customizing) and
> leave the result at the end of the book. This is similar to the way the
> topics are handled in the other books.
> 
> 5) Drop Appendix A (Keyboard Shortcuts) and put a brief mention in
> Chapter 1 with a pointer to the Help.
> 
> That's the major changes. I have a few other changes to suggest in
> various chapters. In total the reorganisation should cut the page count
> down below 300 pages and make the book more useful for the majority of
> new users. 
> 
> Comments?
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

I agree about dropping the Base chapter. Most MSO users do not even have
Access installed or even know how to use it even at a rudimentary level.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

Andrew

On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 01:27 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:

> 
> On 06/23/2011 10:13 AM, Marc Paré wrote:
> > We are essentially saying the same thing. For necessary files where 
> > the ODF cannot be read due to the inability of having LibreOffice 
> > installed to read ODF files then falling back on .pdf's is fine. If 
> > there is a need to create a quick and dirty ODF reader, then we should 
> > put this to the dev's as a project -- a "LibreOffice Reader". We 
> > should not be advocating the use of any other format unless we really 
> > have to. If our documents are so important for a user to want to read, 
> > then they should download our product to read our wonderful manuals.
> 
> I expect to see PDF readers on certain platforms long before I see an 
> ODF reader (iPhone, Android, Kindle, etc), yet I may use those devices 
> to read my documents when I am away from my computer.
> 
> Would love to have a copy of LO that works on my portable platforms, but 
> I really do not expect it any time soon. Would be nice, however I 
> would rate that as a much lower priority that some other issues in the 
> software (like say a better macro recorder).
> 
> >
> > Otherwise, we relegate the ODF (and LibreOffice) to a secondary 
> > position -- there will always be individuals inside our group who will 
> > clamour for a .pdf version to add "universality" to our product line. 
> > This is completely counter-productive. The request for .pdf will never 
> > cease and all of our documentation will be in ODF/PDF versions with no 
> > real reason to fully adopt the ODF format by any user.
> 
> Well, off hand, I can download the ODF file, generate the PDF, but then 
> I must move it through my computer before I move it on to the devices 
> that do not support ODF. I need to also make certain that you provide 
> all the fonts that I require and install those. I used to have that 
> problem with PDFs generated by my employer. They used some strange font 
> that my computer did not have. I had to install the font before I could 
> view the document. Need to teach them how to embed the font into a PDF 
> file.

I may be wrong, but I believe MSO 2010 and 2007? are able to open ODF files 
except for possibly Base



> > Worse, corporate adoption of our product will be hard to get if they 
> > will never see the benefits of using our products if they only read it 
> > through .pdf formats for their convenience. It is difficult to issue 
> > accolades to a product that second guesses itself to its intended user 
> > base. If pdf's are so necessary, then people should be looking for a 
> > .pdf office suite as everyone extolls its virtues.
> 
> Most of the clients that I see, and even where I work, most of the users 
> are not given sufficient permissions that they are able to install new 
> software on their computers. In most cases, documents that I generate 
> using ODF must be converted to another form for delivery. The only place 
> you will likely have traction when you say "download this to look at my 
> documents" is when you generate a document of sufficient interest that 
> the average user is willing to do so.
> 
> > I don't think Adobe would ever suggest to anyone else to use a 
> > different format for people to read their manuals, they would of 
> > course tell all to download their reader and to then read their 
> > wonderful manuals.
> 
> Easy to shoot holes in most of my concerns as they relates to say LO 
> documentation, however, because the person who desires LO documentation 
> likely has LO installed. So, acrobat documentation as a PDF makes sense. 
> Better not use fonts that the user will not have, however. Consider that 
> in Gnome 3 they removed the minimize button because the average user 
> will be confused by it "where did my program go". Off hand, I would say 
> that if that is true, then it is not reasonable to expect a user to 
> install much of anything (I must be tired and cranky).
> 
> When I am using a computer that is not my own (say at work, at a 
> library, visiting a neighbor or family) and I want to look up something 
> in the documentation Asking to install a large piece of software is 
> frequently not an option. I know people that still use dial-up.
> 
> > We should do the same, as we do have the better format of the two. The 
> > use of .dpf's should be done in a very strategic way and not in a 
> > universally applied fashion.
> >
> > All of my opinions.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Marc
> >
> 
> It is not possible to embed fonts in an ODF document, but I can in a PDF 
> document. Then again, last time I tried to create a PDF/A-1a using LO, 
> the generated PDF was not usable (it caused my PDF reader to crash). 
> Last time I tried this with OOo, it worked fine.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> 
> 



-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

John,

On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 00:30 +0100, John Cleland wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I used LibO 3.3 to produce a PDF file on windows 7.  Opening the PDF using 
> Acrobat X on windows 7 and you are able to use both highlights and comments. 
> The review parts also seem enabled.
> 
> Highlights and comments definitely save.  It maybe that this is possible 
> already without Acrobat Pro.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Jean Hollis Weber
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:08 PM
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides
> 
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 14:18 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote:
> 
> > Having the Review and Comment functionality on a PDF (to be done with
> > Adobe Reader) must be first imparted by Acrobat Pro to that file. Trust
> > me...
> 
> Gary is correct on this point.
> 
> As for doing that, Gary states elsewhere that it's a quick and easy
> process for anyone who has Acrobat Pro. That is also correct.
> 
> I would put this in the bucket of "if Gary (or some other member of the
> team who already has Acrobat Pro) wants to do this step for each of our
> PDFs, then let them do it" -- except for the following reservations:
> 
> * If someone starts doing this, users will have an expectation that all
> the LO user guide PDFs will have this functionality.
> 
> * If only 1 or 2 people are doing this, it puts them on the critical
> path for publishing PDFs that meet the expectations mentioned above and
> could cause a bottleneck, especially if the person were unavailable for
> any reason.
> 
> BTW, I have Acrobat Pro, but I am not offering to do what Gary suggests
> because it is on a (Windows) machine that I rarely turn on, so setting
> the Review and Comment switch on a PDF is a much more time-consuming
> effort which I might do only once a week, if that often.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 
> -- 
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> deleted 
> 

Did use any settings other than default ones when saved the pdf? If so,
please advise because this may be a good tip to tell people. If you can
produce a pdf file with virtually all the functionality a user would
need why would you use Adobe not save the money? I would use the less
expensive option that is available.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Password-protect your folders with free docLock (Windows)

[planas]

Hi

Is the minor editing of pdf files a Reader functionality or must you use
Acrobat to have it. The best way is to test it on pdf file exported from
LO. Also, I believe most people are looking for a copy of the
documentation for reference not study. Thus, exporting from LO would be
the easiest answer.

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 13:27 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote:

> Windows users might desire to take advantage of a one-day-only free 
> giveaway of a Window utility...
> 
> BTW, I come across a fair number of giveaways and deeply-discounted 
> hardware and software items through this source. Haste is usually 
> required for most items, as they rapidly sell out. But there is some 13 
> hours left for this freebie.
> 
> Gary
> 
>  Original Message 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

Gary

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 13:43 -0400, Gary Schnabl wrote:

> On 6/23/2011 1:25 PM, planas wrote:
> > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 19:04 +0200, C wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 18:53, Gary Schnabl  wrote:
> >>>>> Therefore, I suggest that every OOo/LO PDF file be so converted by
> >>>>> Adobe Acrobat Professional afterward, prior to release so that
> >>>>> OOo/LO users will have that extra functionality.
> >>>> What purpose do you want this functionality for?
> >>>>
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>> It seems foolish not to so enable them for the Comment and Review
> >>>>> function, considering its ease to do so with no added cost or real
> >>>>> time and effort...
> >>>> But for what purpose?
> >>>>
> >>>> Nino
> >>> DUH! For any users wanting to add any highlighting and such--a thing
> >>> typically done by millions of students and others over the past few 
> >>> decades
> >>> on their printed material and books by (usually yellow-colored) magic
> >>> markers. That highlighting functionality can also be done now 
> >>> electronically
> >>> on PDFs (as it is commonly done on such converted PDFs) and even carried
> >>> over to printed hard copy, if users so desire to print them out afterward.
> >>>
> >>> In addition to highlighting, editorial comments and the like by users 
> >>> could
> >>> also be added directly to the PDF documents, among other capabilities.
> >> The big hole in that idea is that Adobe Acrobat Professional is a
> >> Windows/MAC-only application that costs $449 US per license.  That
> >> leaves out those of us who use Linux... and the team members that
> >> cannot afford that rather high license cost.
> >>
> >> It may be a nice-to-have feature, but due to cost and OS restrictions,
> >> it will probably remain a nice-to-have.
> >>
> >> C.
> >>
> > Does anyone know what pdf functionality LO exports have? I have never
> > tested it myself, no interest until now.
> >
> > If they have the desire functionality then there is no reason to use
> > Acrobat, just export from LO. Personally I do not highlight books or
> > e-texts. For e-texts I use formatting to highlight important items for
> > the reader. If something you can using formating in the original to draw
> > the readers/users attention to it. If I need to edit a pdf file, I can
> > use pdf Edit in Linux and I assume there are Windows/Mac equivalents.
> 
> I never mentioned that any reader of LO PDFs would need to use Acrobat.
> 
> Only one person at LO docs needs to employ Acrobat Professional--a 
> brain-dead, simple, less-than-a-minute task--to enable any future users 
> to employ Comment and Review on their PDFs.
> 
> It's really that difficult a concept. It imparts useful functionality, 
> even though you might not ever use it. Millions do... on their printed 
> documents, including books and memos.
> 
> Gary
> 
> -- 
> 
> Gary Schnabl
> Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...
> 
> Technical Editor forum <http://TechnicalEditor.LivernoisYard.com/phpBB3/>
> 
> 

You are missing the point - I do not need Acrobat to generate a pdf
file. You can do it easily in LO. The pdf will open in Reader with no
problems. I just did it, accepting the default settings since was not
sure what all the settings did. Actually this was the first time I had
seen these settings and I suspect they setting for Reader/Acrobat. I
would not be surprised it you picked the correct settings you would get
the behavior you wanted.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 19:04 +0200, C wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 18:53, Gary Schnabl  wrote:
> >>> Therefore, I suggest that every OOo/LO PDF file be so converted by
> >>> Adobe Acrobat Professional afterward, prior to release so that
> >>> OOo/LO users will have that extra functionality.
> >>
> >> What purpose do you want this functionality for?
> >>
> >>> ...
> >>> It seems foolish not to so enable them for the Comment and Review
> >>> function, considering its ease to do so with no added cost or real
> >>> time and effort...
> >>
> >> But for what purpose?
> >>
> >> Nino
> >
> > DUH! For any users wanting to add any highlighting and such--a thing
> > typically done by millions of students and others over the past few decades
> > on their printed material and books by (usually yellow-colored) magic
> > markers. That highlighting functionality can also be done now electronically
> > on PDFs (as it is commonly done on such converted PDFs) and even carried
> > over to printed hard copy, if users so desire to print them out afterward.
> >
> > In addition to highlighting, editorial comments and the like by users could
> > also be added directly to the PDF documents, among other capabilities.
> 
> The big hole in that idea is that Adobe Acrobat Professional is a
> Windows/MAC-only application that costs $449 US per license.  That
> leaves out those of us who use Linux... and the team members that
> cannot afford that rather high license cost.
> 
> It may be a nice-to-have feature, but due to cost and OS restrictions,
> it will probably remain a nice-to-have.
> 
> C.
> 

Does anyone know what pdf functionality LO exports have? I have never
tested it myself, no interest until now.

If they have the desire functionality then there is no reason to use
Acrobat, just export from LO. Personally I do not highlight books or
e-texts. For e-texts I use formatting to highlight important items for
the reader. If something you can using formating in the original to draw
the readers/users attention to it. If I need to edit a pdf file, I can
use pdf Edit in Linux and I assume there are Windows/Mac equivalents.



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

Hi

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 17:09 +0200, C wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 16:55, Nino Novak  wrote:
> > So my statement would be:
> > Stay with ODF as master (as long as there is not a more conveniant
> > solution) and try to offer PDF /and/ HTML in addition. Ideally, the PDF
> > and HTML conversion should be done as automatically as possible, so no
> > need for additional manpower.
> 
> You've hit in an important point Nino.  The doc team does not have the
> manpower available to create and maintain independent documentation
> streams.  HTML is a fine idea, but not as a leading/primary format.
> If there is a need for HTML, then do it as an output/publishing format
> from the ODT sources.
> 
> Clayton
> 

Generation of pdf is easy for LO, under FILE >> Export as PDF in Writer
and you have your pdf. I would do this after the document has been
finalized for release. We can plug this feature, saying something "pdf
files where generated using LO " This will tell people the can
generate a pdf file for LO without having to prep it for import into
Acrobat or use Acrobat to generate the document.

When friends ask about getting Acrobat, I tell them to use the export
feature in LO/OOo instead and save the money. The feature has been OOo
for several years and is one of the reasons I would use OOo and now LO.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

Hi

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 10:41 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> Most places that have any kind of leaflet, posters or documentation to 
> download 
> want to have some control over the way it looks.  Sadly there is not an 
> adequate 
> Open Document Format so people use PDF.  Since PDF is so widely used it 
> forces 
> everyone to use it.  I don't think we can make a stand against that right 
> now.  
> We have to use PDF or else marginalise ourselves.  
> 
> 
> Most places that do have pdfs to download also have a button to the Adobe 
> site 
> to download their latest reader (for free) in case people can't read pdfs 
> even 
> though that is desperately unlikely.  I think we should have a similar button 
> but perhaps we could choose someone other than Adobe?
> 
> I think we should also follow that lead and have a button leading people to a 
> stable ODT reader, not our 3.4.x releases!
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Marc Paré 
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Thu, 23 June, 2011 9:27:00
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides
> 
> Le 2011-06-23 02:30, David Nelson a écrit :
> > Hi,
> > 
> > My 2 cents would be that the best format for guides is .odt, plus a
> > publication of the user-ready version in PDF.
> > 
> > I don't think an HTML version would really be a useful idea.
> > 
> > --
> > David Nelson
> > 
> I will chime in as well. I would rather see the ODF versions first and the 
> .pdf 
> only if needed. We are, after all, telling people that we have the best 
> office 
> suite on earth, so let's prove it! It does work!. I would even go as far as 
> not 
> publishing any .pdf versions. People needing documentation will have 
> LibreOffice 
> to read the ODF files. I would only supply .pdf files if it involved anything 
> with the installation of LibreOffice.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Marc
> 
> -- Marc Paré
> http://www.parEntreprise.com
> 
> 
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

True most people are conditioned to look a pdf file. But one save LO
documents with a password which maintains version/document control. This
feature is (also in MSO) is rarely used, I think because most people are
not aware of it. The Acrobat Reader is a marketing tool for Adobe to
make pdf popular and improve sales of the Acrobat. There are currently
several free readers for Linux and Windows. Some are considered better
than Reader itself. Maybe instead of link to Adobe we have a link, if
possible, to a FOSS pdf reader. People can still read the pdf and we
promote some sister projects.

What some have done to get around needing Acrobat to prepare pdf's is
use a suite like LO that can export the document as a pdf. Any pdf
generated we need can be done in LO and we state that on the page. Any
time we revise the document we do it using LO. I have been aware of this
feature in OOo/SO for many years when MSO did not have it.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 04:27 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

> Le 2011-06-23 02:30, David Nelson a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > My 2 cents would be that the best format for guides is .odt, plus a
> > publication of the user-ready version in PDF.
> >
> > I don't think an HTML version would really be a useful idea.
> >
> > --
> > David Nelson
> >
> I will chime in as well. I would rather see the ODF versions first and 
> the .pdf only if needed. We are, after all, telling people that we have 
> the best office suite on earth, so let's prove it! It does work!. I 
> would even go as far as not publishing any .pdf versions. People needing 
> documentation will have LibreOffice to read the ODF files. I would only 
> supply .pdf files if it involved anything with the installation of 
> LibreOffice.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Marc
> 
> -- 
> Marc Paré
> http://www.parEntreprise.com
> 
> 


I agree with ODF formats for our documentation and then other versions
as needed latter. When they are made, when can state the where
saved/exported for the LO, plugging some of the other capabilities of
LO.

I would not use htiml unless someone cleans up the code. Most program
generated html I have seen is very difficult to follow, debug, and
maintain without someone cleaning it up. Ofteh I have found myself
redoing the pages with hand coding only.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] HTML versions of the Guides

[planas]

John,

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 21:49 +0100, John Cleland wrote:

> Hi
> 
> When checking the PDF version of the Calc guide I found it hard, compared to 
> html to move around the document.  I would like to propose that an HTML 
> version is produced.  I would be happy to undertake the work.
> 
> I am not sure what open source html producers/editors are available, but will 
> do some research into what is available.
> 
> Does anyone else think this is a good/bad idea.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> John Cleland

If you use Linux, you can try Bluefish Editor for an html
producer/editor. Their website is
http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/index.html and they have Windows and Mac
versions available.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] ODFauthors

[planas]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:57 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:

> On 06/20/2011 08:13 PM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:08 +, toki wrote:
> >> On 19/06/2011 23:02, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> >>
> >>> Possibly relevant information: because ODFAuthors as an organisation has
> >> no legal standing,
> >>
> >> FWIW, Under US Law, ODFAuthors is an unincorporated non profit
> >> organization. A separate legal entity from _Friends of Open Document,
> >> Inc_.
> >>
> >> Precisely what rights that gives it, depends upon the state in which it
> >> does business.
> >
> > Hmm, interesting. What constitutes "doing business" in a state? Or in
> > the USA?
> 
> I can only guess. Probably  things such as selling a book. Apart 
> from that, probably not much.
> 
> > Although a few contributors live in the USA, most of ODFAuthors
> > membership, and the server on which its website is hosted, are located
> > outside the USA.
> Because I live in the USA, I am bound by the laws of the USA when I 
> post... You know, so if I knew things that the USA did not allow out of 
> the country, I could not post them. I think that cryptography used to be 
> an example, not sure if it still is.


Some of the export rules have been relaxed on cryptography, but I do not
know the current rules.

On area we Yanks can get into trouble is with software patents and
copyrights. It is a problem with audio and video codecs and whether you
can legally download some you might find on the web. I have seen this
warning with several non-US Linux distros.

> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] signing on...

[planas]

Tom

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:22 -0600, Tom Cloyd wrote:

> Greetings to you all.
> 
> I just wanted to show and and declare myself interested in working on 
> documentation for Base, which I started using last week. My appearance 
> here has been urged upon me by Tom Davies, and I'll have to trust his 
> wisdom on this, as I'm no expert. I do, however, keep copious notes on 
> most things I learn about new software, and have years of work with MS 
> Access, developing databases for my own use.
> 
> Right now, as I get the time, I'm accumulating everything I can find 
> that looks like documentation for Base, while also rushing to get 
> several databases up and running. I find Base is pleasantly stable, full 
> of features, and not exactly well documentated. It's also slower than I 
> expected, even with indexes in place (but maybe I'm messing something 
> up, being new to this software). But it's a great piece of work, and I 
> expect to be working with it for many years ahead.
> 
> I write a lot, and I'm very willing to contribute documentation, or at 
> least drafts for others to tune up as needed. I know I have much to 
> learn, but I'm on track with learning it, so...
> 
> I'm open to any suggestions as to where I need to go to learn how to be 
> a better documentation contributor.
> 
> Thanks for your patience while I learn the ropes.
> 
> Tom Cloyd, MS MA
> t...@tomcloyd.com
> (435) 272-3332
> St. George/Cedar City, Utah
> 

I am working on the base documentation, very slowly. Send me a email off
list I will tell where I am at.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] What I'm doing with LibO and Apache OOo

[planas]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:55 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> I have accepted an invitation to join the Apache PPMC (Podling Project
> Management Committee) for OpenOffice.org. My writing activities,
> including the new book, may be delayed for awhile. So much for cutting
> back on administrative duties! 
> 
> As for LibreOffice Docs, I'm going back to my former role as opinionated
> senior advisor and respository of obscure knowledge about the docs
> files. I continue to believe that the more the LibO and OOo docs teams
> can work together, the better off we'll all be, given the small numbers
> of experienced people involved. Just how to make that happen, assuming
> others agree with me, is something to be worked out.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 


Congratulations

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Apache OpenOffice.org

[planas]

On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 13:27 -0300, Rogerio Luz Coelho wrote:

> For docs or for devs?
> 
> Rogerio
> 
> 
> 2011/6/10 planas 
> 
> > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 10:04 +, toki wrote:
> >
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > On 09/06/2011 21:38, Jean Weber wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't know what this will mean for us in the OOo and LibO docs
> > groups, but I am concerned about the potential for further fragmentation of
> > a small group of docs people into working on several
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > If The Apache Software Foundation does what they normally do with
> > > projects, there will not be a binary release of Apache OpenOffice.org.
> > > There will only be a source code release.
> > >
> > > The onus will be on third parties to deliver binaries.
> > >
> > > Given the history of third party distribution of OOo binaries, I suspect
> > > that tracking the third parties that deliver binaries that are either
> > > based upon, or exclusively Apache OpenOffice.org code to non-trivial.
> > >
> > > I don't see typical OOo end-users grabbing the Apache OpenOffice.org
> > > source code, and compiling it for their system.
> > >
> > > > We really need to work on better ways to reuse material without time
> > consuming rebranding
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > OTOH, I'm not sure how much material will be reusable.
> > > In updating _OOo in a Multi-Lingual Environment_, my original theory was
> > > to include OOo4Kids, and OOoLight.  Due to the differences between those
> > > programs, and OOo, I had to either write: "This can not be done using
> > > OOo4Kids" or else write a completely different set of instructions.
> > > Instructions that, as often as not, did not work with either OOo, or
> > LibO.
> > >
> > > > by automating everything we can and choosing not to do some
> > > non-essential things that can't be automated.
> > >
> > > The practical issue is:
> > > * Which existing OOo derivatives/variants should the Documentation
> > > Project track;
> > > * What criteria should be used, to determine which new
> > > derivatives/variants should be tracked;
> > >
> > > Existing OOo derivatives/variants are:
> > > # FLOSS:
> > > * GO-Oo;
> > > * BrOffice;
> > > * LibreOffice;
> > > * OOo4Kids;
> > > * OOoLight;
> > > * OpenOffice.org;
> > > * OxygenOffice;
> > >
> > > # Proprietary:
> > > * 602Office;
> > > * Co-Create Office;
> > > * EuroOffice;
> > > * KaiOffice;
> > > * MagyarOffice;
> > > * MyOffice 2007;
> > > * NeoOffice;
> > > * NextOffice;
> > > * OfficeOne;
> > > * OpenOffice Pro;
> > > * OpenOffice UX PL;
> > > * OpenOffice PL;
> > > * RedOffice;
> > > * StarOffice/Oracle OpenOffice;
> > > * Symphony;
> > > * ThizOffice;
> > > * UPOffice;
> > > * WPOffice;
> > >
> > > I put that list together, based on various pages on the web.  Not all of
> > > those programs are still distributed.
> > >
> > >
> > > jonathon
> > > - --
> > > If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting.
> > >
> > > If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth
> > > requesting.
> > >
> > >   DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw.
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> > >
> > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN8ewkAAoJEERA7YuLpVrV8HEH/RukCJDYCR5T7WteFqAu0Iw3
> > > Udp2F49WQynqzsr/B4dFTX17PwL/oDVZDLqtNgpDykcyqK1nOVRB4X8KUt9Vf8y9
> > > GOyVOBAQjp9Tc3zxbsp8UdPbErSVfkBD4Nwvy7Ht+WDZkGy35xqgINS/MkvE50E7
> > > XM2ZNbojVUNLrF609mgPLZddKEReB4+aKaPZa+vijuC+vdPAlTIz6FsBBOpARbEg
> > > WiaihWK8s9sDKfpuad1Q5TJOqZ5vMd7pfqfnhnEZC/gHEav9vVQcOMWdT6fjyf21
> > > 8o1Zab0SwXD95hN/4FHfVMWF9rH1fhMoNWLnT+q2AH9xBO9AzNvkatSvoTNiJvY=
> > > =F9A9
> > > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > >
> >
> >
> > Do we want to track KOffice and Calligra as well? They have some
> > interesting ideas that we should probably look at.
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> >
> > --
> 

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Collecting small things in the Wiki

[planas]

Regina

On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 22:02 +0200, Regina Henschel wrote:

> Hi planas,
> 
> planas schrieb:
> > Regina
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 19:21 +0200, Regina Henschel wrote:
> >
> >> Hi documentation members,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a place to collect little tips and explanations, for
> >> example "Why results the formula =-2^3 in 9?" or "Calc calcutates wrong!
> >> 9.87€ + 6.54€ results in 16.42€."
> >>
> >> And also a place for HowTos, which are not a FAQ and which are to small
> >> for a guide, but might be useful. For example an explanation, how to get
> >> the coefficients of an interpolation polynomial.
> >>
> >> It should be outside of your documentation workflow and needs to be
> >> easily edited, but have a basic predefined structure.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >> Regina
> >
> >
> >
> > Could this be integrated with the blog. We have a few how to blogs
> > already.
> 
> If it is "blog" as I understand blogs, then it will not be suitable. It 
> is necessary, that it can be edited. It must be possible to correct 
> errors, to add or remove something later on, to write mathematical 
> content, to add pictures.
> 
>   I think any LO related topic could be discussed in a blog or
> > wiki. The difference, I believe, is the target with the blog being
> > straightforward how-tos or why-tos and the wiki having more depth for
> > topics.
> 
> Please have a look at our German Wiki http://www.libreofficewiki.de/. I 
> look for something similar in English.
> 
> Kind regards
> Regina

Wordpress has an editable blog for LO. Also, I prefer to send a preview
to a few people on the documentation team before I post anything. I want
errors to be caught before they are posted. 

My I distinction is a blog is for relatively "easy" topics rather than
complex topics. The difference is the complex topic may involve either
an apparent work around or real work around to a problem or the
discussion of a complex topic.  Your examples above may be better in a
wiki because they touch on rounding by computers and operation order of
precedence, both could be confusing for non-mathematician, scientist, or
engineer. Both could easily get messy for many users.

I think my distinction is more about the length of the post and amount
of detail in the content. 


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Collecting small things in the Wiki

[planas]

Regina

On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 19:21 +0200, Regina Henschel wrote:

> Hi documentation members,
> 
> I'm looking for a place to collect little tips and explanations, for 
> example "Why results the formula =-2^3 in 9?" or "Calc calcutates wrong! 
> 9.87€ + 6.54€ results in 16.42€."
> 
> And also a place for HowTos, which are not a FAQ and which are to small 
> for a guide, but might be useful. For example an explanation, how to get 
> the coefficients of an interpolation polynomial.
> 
> It should be outside of your documentation workflow and needs to be 
> easily edited, but have a basic predefined structure.
> 
> Kind regards
> Regina



Could this be integrated with the blog. We have a few how to blogs
already. I think any LO related topic could be discussed in a blog or
wiki. The difference, I believe, is the target with the blog being
straightforward how-tos or why-tos and the wiki having more depth for
topics.


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Apache OpenOffice.org

[planas]

On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 10:04 +, toki wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 09/06/2011 21:38, Jean Weber wrote:
> 
> > I don't know what this will mean for us in the OOo and LibO docs groups, 
> > but I am concerned about the potential for further fragmentation of a small 
> > group of docs people into working on several
> projects.
> 
> If The Apache Software Foundation does what they normally do with
> projects, there will not be a binary release of Apache OpenOffice.org.
> There will only be a source code release.
> 
> The onus will be on third parties to deliver binaries.
> 
> Given the history of third party distribution of OOo binaries, I suspect
> that tracking the third parties that deliver binaries that are either
> based upon, or exclusively Apache OpenOffice.org code to non-trivial.
> 
> I don't see typical OOo end-users grabbing the Apache OpenOffice.org
> source code, and compiling it for their system.
> 
> > We really need to work on better ways to reuse material without time 
> > consuming rebranding 
> 
> +1
> 
> OTOH, I'm not sure how much material will be reusable.
> In updating _OOo in a Multi-Lingual Environment_, my original theory was
> to include OOo4Kids, and OOoLight.  Due to the differences between those
> programs, and OOo, I had to either write: "This can not be done using
> OOo4Kids" or else write a completely different set of instructions.
> Instructions that, as often as not, did not work with either OOo, or LibO.
> 
> > by automating everything we can and choosing not to do some
> non-essential things that can't be automated.
> 
> The practical issue is:
> * Which existing OOo derivatives/variants should the Documentation
> Project track;
> * What criteria should be used, to determine which new
> derivatives/variants should be tracked;
> 
> Existing OOo derivatives/variants are:
> # FLOSS:
> * GO-Oo;
> * BrOffice;
> * LibreOffice;
> * OOo4Kids;
> * OOoLight;
> * OpenOffice.org;
> * OxygenOffice;
> 
> # Proprietary:
> * 602Office;
> * Co-Create Office;
> * EuroOffice;
> * KaiOffice;
> * MagyarOffice;
> * MyOffice 2007;
> * NeoOffice;
> * NextOffice;
> * OfficeOne;
> * OpenOffice Pro;
> * OpenOffice UX PL;
> * OpenOffice PL;
> * RedOffice;
> * StarOffice/Oracle OpenOffice;
> * Symphony;
> * ThizOffice;
> * UPOffice;
> * WPOffice;
> 
> I put that list together, based on various pages on the web.  Not all of
> those programs are still distributed.
> 
> 
> jonathon
> - -- 
> If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting.
> 
> If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth
> requesting.
> 
>   DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw.
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN8ewkAAoJEERA7YuLpVrV8HEH/RukCJDYCR5T7WteFqAu0Iw3
> Udp2F49WQynqzsr/B4dFTX17PwL/oDVZDLqtNgpDykcyqK1nOVRB4X8KUt9Vf8y9
> GOyVOBAQjp9Tc3zxbsp8UdPbErSVfkBD4Nwvy7Ht+WDZkGy35xqgINS/MkvE50E7
> XM2ZNbojVUNLrF609mgPLZddKEReB4+aKaPZa+vijuC+vdPAlTIz6FsBBOpARbEg
> WiaihWK8s9sDKfpuad1Q5TJOqZ5vMd7pfqfnhnEZC/gHEav9vVQcOMWdT6fjyf21
> 8o1Zab0SwXD95hN/4FHfVMWF9rH1fhMoNWLnT+q2AH9xBO9AzNvkatSvoTNiJvY=
> =F9A9
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 


Do we want to track KOffice and Calligra as well? They have some
interesting ideas that we should probably look at.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)

[planas]

Hi,

On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 19:17 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> 
> Superb :)  In Ubuntu and most other versions of gnu&linux you can just press 
> the 
> "Print Screen" key on your keyboard.  It's usually around the top of the 
> keyboard between the Enter key and the number-pad.  It tends to default to 
> saving the screenshot as a png on your desktop or perhaps in Ubuntu's 
> Pictures 
> folder.  From the top taskbar click on
> Places - Pictures
> 
> There is a slightly better tool, again from the top taskbar
> Applications - Accessories - Snapshot (i think)
> It allows you to set a time-delay and stuff.  There was a discussion about 
> better tools ages ago but i can't remember the result.  
> 
> 
> If you want to edit the picture in Ubuntu then you might want to install Gimp
> System - Administration - Synaptic Package Manager
> and then either tool to search for gimp.
> 
> In Ubuntu 11.04 the menus might be very different unless it reverts to 
> "Gnome" 
> or "Classic" desktop rather than the all 'new' Unity.
> Good luck and regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jaimon Jacob 
> To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> Sent: Fri, 3 June, 2011 19:03:41
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> 
> Hi Tom,
> I am using VMWare Player, and I can install it easily. I think Greenshot will 
> work in Ubuntu.
> Regards,Jaimon
> 
> --- On Fri, 3/6/11, Tom Davies  wrote:
> 
> From: Tom Davies 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> Date: Friday, 3 June, 2011, 11:09 PM
> 
> Hi :)
> If you are thinking of installing Ubuntu then there are a number of ways of 
> doing it that keep your system as it is.  You do NOT need to wipe your 
> current 
> OS.  
> 
> 1.  On a Virtual Machine such as VirtualBox, inside your OS
> 2.  Run Ubuntu as a boot-cd, linux user would say "Live Cd".  Ubuntu 10.04 
> and 
> onwards tend to be a bit awkward but it might be worth a try.  
> 
> 3.  Install Ubuntu as a dual-boot alongside your current OS
> 
> I can help you with 3 (or 1 or 2).  For 1 it would help to know which OS you 
> mostly use.  
> 
> 
> However, if you are only doing this for the screen-shots then it might be a 
> better idea to leave the screen-shots to someone else and just let people 
> know 
> which shots need to be replaced.  There are already a few people doing it 
> that 
> way.  I think even people that do the screenshots and the rest tend to do the 
> screenshots in a separate session, perhaps getting a batch of 2 or 3 
> screenshots 
> 
> (perhaps more) and then doing more editing.  The work-flow seems better that 
> way 
> 
> i think?
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: ~*Low Song Chuan*~ 
> To: "documentation@libreoffice.org" 
> Sent: Fri, 3 June, 2011 17:49:29
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> 
> Hey Jaimon,
> 
> Sufyan are doing the screenshot down. You might want to sort it out with him? 
> If 
> 
> not, you two will be doing double work??
> 
> Regards
> Song Chuan
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jaimon Jacob 
> To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> 
> Downloading Ubuntu now.  Will start right away..
> 
> --- On Fri, 3/6/11, Tom Davies  wrote:
> 
> From: Tom Davies 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> Date: Friday, 3 June, 2011, 9:46 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Muhammad Sufyan Zainalabidin 
> To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> Sent: Fri, 3 June, 2011 17:04:37
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide (Chapter 1)
> 
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:43 PM, David Nelson wrote:
> 
> > OK, I've had a look at this chapter and, apart from Chad's comments
> > added to the document, it needs one screenshot updating (still
> > contains OOo screenshot).
> >
> > I'm thinking of Jaimon, Song Chuan and Sufyan, and thinking this is a
> > task we could offer to them.
> >
> > Anyone got any comments about what else could be done with it?
> >
> > --
> > David Nelson
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@libreoffice.org
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/documentation/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> > Hi David
> 
> I can start with screenshot updating rightaway, but do i need special access
> to update the screenshots onto the document? Meanwhile I will start
> preparing the screenshots offline..
> 
> Sufyan
> 
> 
> Hi :)
> Screen-shots need to be done in Ubuntu or Mint or other linux NOT Windows, 
> except in very special cases where it's a close-up where you can't tell it's 
> in 
> Windows (

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Tutorial

[planas]

Jean

On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 21:16 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> Mariano Casanova wrote a tutorial for OpenOffice.org Base, which some
> people here asked about awhile ago.
> 
> I've now put a copy of the PDF on our wiki. Unfortunately, we can't find
> the source ODT, so I'll try to contact the author to see if we can get
> it. It should be equally useful for users of LibreOffice Base.
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/0/02/Base_tutorial.pdf
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

I will try to download and convert this weekend if you can not get an
ODT. This week has been rather hectic.
-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Documentation

[planas]

Alex

On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 10:49 +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Just a heads up to those working on Base Documentation that there are a
> number of known bugs related to database usage and LibreOffice :
> 
> 
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=libreoffice+database
> 
> 
> For many of these, little, or no, work is being done to correct them. If
> fixes continue to be made by the OOo Base team (which remains in doubt
> given the lack of any visible activity since mid-April), then they will
> probably make it at some stage into the LibO code source repository.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 

Thanks, I am trying to get the Base Manuals converted.
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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-users] About Libreoffice

[planas]

Hi Saman

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 09:26 -0700, saman muhammad wrote:

> Hi..,
> I want to use the LibreOffice for translation and writing, so I need 
> additional of english language need Arabic or Perian language text writing, 
> do libreoffice support arabic or persian text writing on Mac?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks greatly
> SAMAN MUHAMMAD   
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Tunnus 2255343-1 
> Saman Muhammad T.
> Velhontie 4 as 9
> 87700 Kajaani - FINLAND
> 
> Work +358 505 608 980
> Home +358 442 003 015 
> http://www.saman-m.net   
> samanmuham...@yahoo.com   
>  
> 
>   
>  
> 
> 
> 

Welcome to the team,

I believe there are language packs for both. They should be platform
independent. A Mac user can better tell you how to get them, I use Linux
so I am not much help there.

You need to let the documents team documentation@libreoffice.org know
you are willing to help. This particular address is normally used for
answering user questions. The documents team has a separate list. I
copied them. They can help you get the proper accounts and logins.

Thanks

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Jean
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:02 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 07:34 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:39 -0400, planas wrote:
> > > Rogerio
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 14:33 -0300, Rogerio Luz Coelho wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Please be more specific, the Base "chapter" of Getting Started?
> > > > 
> > > > Or Chapter 1 of the Base manual ?
> > > > 
> > > > Which file are you working on?
> > > > 
> > > > On Alfresco or ODFAuhors ?
> > > > 
> > > > Sorry, but until someone shows me a way to organize this mess these
> > > > questions must be answered firts :)
> > > > 
> > > > Rogerio
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 2011/5/14 planas 
> > > > 
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started on working on the Base Manual.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jay Lozier
> > > > > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I have started with chapter 1 on Alfresco. 
> > > -- 
> > > Jay Lozier
> > > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > > 
> > 
> > Rogerio,
> > 
> > To elaborate a bit on Jay's answer: I had put the first four chapters of
> > the draft OOo Base Guide on Alfresco (English Content > Documentation >
> > Base Guide > Drafts). I assume that's what Jay is referring to. 
> > 
> > However, I don't see any of those chapters checked out. The Base Guide
> > Outline is checked out, but as far as I can tell by someone else, not
> > Jay.
> > 
> > --Jean
> > 
> 
> More info, which may be of interest to anyone working on the LibO Base
> Guide: Dan Lewis, the primary author of the OOo Base Guide, is rewriting
> chapter 1 of that book and expects to have his revision on the
> ODFAuthors site soon. 
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

Thanks for the update.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Jean

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 07:34 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:39 -0400, planas wrote:
> > Rogerio
> > 
> > On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 14:33 -0300, Rogerio Luz Coelho wrote:
> > 
> > > Please be more specific, the Base "chapter" of Getting Started?
> > > 
> > > Or Chapter 1 of the Base manual ?
> > > 
> > > Which file are you working on?
> > > 
> > > On Alfresco or ODFAuhors ?
> > > 
> > > Sorry, but until someone shows me a way to organize this mess these
> > > questions must be answered firts :)
> > > 
> > > Rogerio
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 2011/5/14 planas 
> > > 
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have started on working on the Base Manual.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jay Lozier
> > > > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > 
> > 
> > I have started with chapter 1 on Alfresco. 
> > -- 
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > 
> 
> Rogerio,
> 
> To elaborate a bit on Jay's answer: I had put the first four chapters of
> the draft OOo Base Guide on Alfresco (English Content > Documentation >
> Base Guide > Drafts). I assume that's what Jay is referring to. 
> 
> However, I don't see any of those chapters checked out. The Base Guide
> Outline is checked out, but as far as I can tell by someone else, not
> Jay.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 
> 

I forgot to check them out, I am currently working on the Chapter 1.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Rogerio

On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 14:33 -0300, Rogerio Luz Coelho wrote:

> Please be more specific, the Base "chapter" of Getting Started?
> 
> Or Chapter 1 of the Base manual ?
> 
> Which file are you working on?
> 
> On Alfresco or ODFAuhors ?
> 
> Sorry, but until someone shows me a way to organize this mess these
> questions must be answered firts :)
> 
> Rogerio
> 
> 
> 
> 2011/5/14 planas 
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have started on working on the Base Manual.
> >
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@libreoffice.org
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/documentation/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> 

I have started with chapter 1 on Alfresco. 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: More on documentation blog

[planas]

Rogerio

On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 16:18 -0300, Rogerio Luz Coelho wrote:
> We have a magazine in Brasil with tips and tutorials and we were in the
> process of translating some of the articles to English, will see about
> getting the authors / translators involved in posting in your blog soon :)
> 
> Rogerio
> 
> 
> 
> 2011/5/9 planas 
> 
> > Jean
> >
> > On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 14:37 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> >
> > > Our blog is here:
> > > http://libodocs.wordpress.com/
> > >
> > > It's a bit quick-and-dirty, but one of the great things about Wordpress
> > > blogs is they can be rethemed and otherwise tweaked as often as we wish.
> > > (Some of the tweaks require purchase of "Custom CSS Upgrade" for an
> > > annual fee.)
> > >
> > > The important thing, of course, is content. I'm glad to see that people
> > > are already interested in contributing articles.
> > >
> > > If you want Contributor, Editor, or Admin access to our blog, please let
> > > me know. You'll need to have a Wordpress.com account (a username) before
> > > I can authorise your access.
> > >
> > > Let's have fun, publish, and help the user community!
> > >
> > > Cheers, Jean
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I have just opened a Wordpress account (jslozier). I probably will need
> > editor access. I will get something on templates this week.
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@libreoffice.org
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/documentation/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> 
Do you have a list of topics are covered by your material?
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[libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Hi all,

I have started on working on the Base Manual.

-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Tags on blog posts

[planas]

Hi

On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 16:32 +1000, Jean Weber wrote:

> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 16:23, Tom Davies  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Jean Hollis Weber 
> > To: documentation@libreoffice.org
> > Sent: Sat, 14 May, 2011 7:06:17
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Tags on blog posts
> >
> > On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 06:36 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> From: Jean Weber 
> >> To: "documentation@libreoffice.org" 
> >> Sent: Sat, 14 May, 2011 2:44:54
> >> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Tags on blog posts
> >>
> >> On 14/05/2011, at 11:31, John Shabanowitz  wrote:
> >>
> >> > I think we're all still learning. I'm not sure either. When you make a 
> >> > post
> >> > there is a box on the right side where you can click categories that 
> >> > assign
> >> > categories to the posts. I think that is where that is coming from. On my
> >> > computer it is "below the fold" of my browser window. If you don't 
> >> > scroll,
> >> > you won't see the selected, recommended categories. TDF is selected by
> >> > default.
> >>
> >> Ah, okay. I think we should untick it then on individual posts (when 
> >> choosing
> >> the tags we do want). Would be good if there is a way to stop it from being
> >> ticked by default.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Jean Weber  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I notice that the last two posts on our blog have as one of their tags 
> >> >> "The
> >> >> Document Foundation" and I wondered why. Neither post has anything to do
> >> >> with TDF. Was this a mistake, or am I still confused about what tags are
> >> >> for?
> >> >>
> >> >> Jean
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi :)
> >> I think the tag "The Document Foundation" is still relevant because people
> >>might
> >>
> >> be searching for TDF to try to get everything about LibreOffice.  I think 
> >> that
> >
> >> in this sort of context TDF is the umbrella or think of it this way,
> >> LibreOffice is a sub-set of TDF.  Obviously LibreOffice is the only reason 
> >> for
> >
> >> TDF to exist so it's a lot more important then that but outsiders might not
> >> appreciate that.
> >> Regards from
> >> Tom :)
> >>
> >
> > Tom, it's the "LibreOffice Documentation Blog" -- why would they be
> > looking for items tagged with "The Document Foundation" on this blog,
> > unless they were looking for a blog post specifically related to TDF
> > itself? This is a genuine question.
> >
> > If I were looking for info on TDF, I wouldn't appreciate getting a bunch
> > of posts about LibO with no info on TDF itself.
> >
> > Jean
> >
> >
> > Hi :)
> > Hmmm, i see what you mean but i think that the type of people that would 
> > find
> > the blog most useful are likely to be people that have not heard of 
> > OpenOffice,
> > LibreOffice or TDF ever before, ie well over 95% of office workers in 
> > England
> > and the USA or well over 80% in mainland Europe.It's going to be a few 
> > years
> > before any of those names are known more widely but people might notice an
> > article about TDF or LibreOffice and just want to know more.
> >
> >
> > The blogs look like the sort of thing that increases people's confidence in
> > giving LO a quick try, especially since it gives links to documentation.
> > Blogging is a marketing tool.
> 
> But if everything in the blog is tagged with TDF, what's the point?
> 
> I don't know a lot about tags, but I thought their purpose was for
> finding things once you had reached the blog, not for finding the blog
> in the first place. I may be totally wrong about that, of course.
> There are other ways to help outsiders find the blog, including those
> who might stumble upon it by accident (by seeing a tweet about it, for
> example).
> 
> --Jean
> 


I believe tags are more search engines to use for indexing and blog
categories are for internal "filing" of the blogs. If I was looking on
the blog for information specifically about Impress I would find all the
blogs about Impress or whatever topics I was interested. The tags allow
search engines to know what the relevant search terms are for the blog
for someone using Google
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Tutorials and Howtos

[planas]

Jean

On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 11:34 +1000, Jean Weber wrote:

> Tossing out some thoughts for discussion...
> 
> 1) In addition to the user guides and the blog, IMO we need to develop a set 
> of tutorials or howtos. Videos would be great for many topics, but that is 
> outside my area of expertise, so I'll talk here about written ones (some of 
> which could be used as the starting point for someone doing videos, of 
> course). 
> 
> 2) The user list is a great source of ideas for tutorials and howto 
> documents. In many cases I read them and realise there is a topic in the user 
> guides that could be repurposed into a tutorial with a bit of rewriting and 
> usually the addition of an example or two. In fact, many topics in the user 
> guides began life several years ago as answers to questions on the OOO 
> forums. 
> 
> 3) I have a collection of tutorial type material that I've written, which has 
> either been published on my own blog or in a book I've written, but which has 
> never been placed on the OOo wiki. Also some items of mine that are on the 
> OOo wiki. All of these could become part of the LibO documentation set... if 
> I ever find time to do it.
> 
> 4) These tutorials and howtos could be published on the blog, but they could 
> --IMO should-- also be collected on one or more pages of the wiki, for easier 
> reference. Also, some are too long for the blog, so having them on the wiki 
> with teasers on the blog could be the way to go. 
> 
> 5) Some items might go well in wiki format, unlike the user guides which are 
> in ODT with only a download link on the wiki. However, many of my items 
> already exist in ODT, so it would be easier and faster to get an initial set 
> of material on the wiki in that form. People writing new stuff, especially if 
> adapting existing material from the user guides, might find it easier to use 
> ODT too. Others might prefer to work directly in the wiki.
> 
> Any thoughts or comments on any of this? I haven't begun to look at the wiki 
> and how best to add this sort of thing to it, but as we are reorganising the 
> wiki anyway, this could be part of the reorganisation. I do hope David N 
> finds time to work on the reorg, because I've been so involved with some of 
> it, I no longer see the problems or what's missing. But wiki reorganisation 
> is a topic for a separate note... This one is too long already. 
> 
> Sometimes I think that I think too much. I dream up ideas faster than I can 
> put them into practice. ;-)
> 
> --Jean


I think that is a good idea for howto docs. The blogs can give a good
overview and the howtos could include screen shoots that would make a
blog excessively long. They could also be downloaded as option, may as
an Impress presentation optionally with a voice over.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Categorising posts on the Docs blog

[planas]

On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:20 -0400, John Shabanowitz wrote:

> Are we going to use version 2.0 or 3.0? Is it good enough to cover the whole
> blog? We can put the link in a text box in the sidebar with the posts are
> solely the opinions of the authors and do not express official policy of The
> Document Foundation nor LibreOffice.
> *John Shabanowitz
> http://libodocs.wordpress.com
> We're recruiting, come join us.*
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Jean Weber  wrote:
> 
> > We also need a copyright statement (the CC-BY-SA, I think it is) and a
> > statement that posts by individuals don't necessarily reflect official
> > policy. Not sure of wording of the latter and don't have time right now to
> > look it up.
> >
> > --Jean
> > --
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> > deleted
> >
> >
> 


Is there any way to have a template with the notices already included?

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: More on documentation blog

[planas]

Jean

On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 14:37 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> Our blog is here:
> http://libodocs.wordpress.com/
> 
> It's a bit quick-and-dirty, but one of the great things about Wordpress
> blogs is they can be rethemed and otherwise tweaked as often as we wish.
> (Some of the tweaks require purchase of "Custom CSS Upgrade" for an
> annual fee.)
> 
> The important thing, of course, is content. I'm glad to see that people
> are already interested in contributing articles.
> 
> If you want Contributor, Editor, or Admin access to our blog, please let
> me know. You'll need to have a Wordpress.com account (a username) before
> I can authorise your access.
> 
> Let's have fun, publish, and help the user community!
> 
> Cheers, Jean
> 
> 

I have just opened a Wordpress account (jslozier). I probably will need
editor access. I will get something on templates this week.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Do we want a Documentation blog?

[planas]

Jean

On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 18:30 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 22:45 -0400, planas wrote:
> > Any suggestions for the first few topics? I could write something in the
> > next few days, just do not have a topic off the top of my head. 
> > 
> > Like Crabby I think it should focus on tips and tricks to do more with
> > LO than answer very specific user questions.
> > -- 
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > 
> 
> I would like to see a series of articles on using styles and templates
> in LO Writer, aimed at people coming from MS Word and focusing on when,
> why, what for as well as how, using common tasks to illustrate the
> concepts. 
> 
> For example, page styles are fundamental to using Writer, but many
> people coming from Word are expecting to do things using "sections" that
> Writer does using page styles ("sections" serve a different purpose in
> Writer).
> 
> Templates have some fundamental uses, too, that many people don't
> discover. For example, many MSWord users expect something similar to
> Word's normal.dot, and don't make the connection to using a self-defined
> default template. (Does Word 2007 still have normal.dot?)
> 
> Less specific to former Word users: Most people don't use paragraph
> styles, probably because they don't understand all the ways in which
> para styles can make their work easier... things like automatic tables
> of contents (using heading styles). For more advanced users, there is
> the feature for assigning any para style to an outline level.
> 
> All the cool things one can do with the Navigator.
> 
> Removing personal and other info before distributing a document.
> 
> Mail merge.
> 
> Page layout techniques: page styles, columns, frames, tables, sections.
> When to use which, plus usage tips.
> 
> For more advanced users:
> * Including chapter numbers in page, figure, and table numbers
> * Any "gotchas" with TOCs & indexes when numbering by chapter
> * Various techniques for single-sourcing (creating >1 document from one
> ODT): 
>   - Conditional text & hidden text, paragraphs, sections
>   - Including sections
>   - Variables 
> 
> Sound and video in Impress.
> 
> Cool stuff you can do with Draw. Several things in the Draw Guide could
> be made into articles, especially items from the Tips & Tricks chapter.
> 
> More later!
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

It looks like the first three are templates, styles, and mail merge. I
have used templates in MS Word for years and found them very convenient.
Also another feature I like to use in Write is automatic data entry
fields within a template.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual Design

[planas]

Hi,

On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 18:16 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: 

> Hi Jay,
> 
> On Sunday 08 May 2011 00:08, planas wrote:
> 
> > In reviewing the OOo base documents I have an idea to use a simple
> > tutorial to highlight database concepts. My idea is to make library
> > database to show various concepts of the database.
> >
> > The idea is to show users how a relational database works and how to
> > design one by using a simple one.
> >
> > Is the idea reasonable to everyone?
> 
> Did you search for existing Base tutorials? (Just to be sure not to 
> reinvent the wheel)
> 
> Maybe it might be worth having a list of available documents in the 
> wiki? Maybe even with comments/opinions?
> 
> Nino
> 

Thanks for the comments, my idea was closer to Tom's with downloaded
stages for each exercise. I am familiar with Northwinds, MS has a good
idea for training documents that allow hands on practice.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Do we want a Documentation blog?

[planas]

On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 08:56 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 18:10 -0400, planas wrote:
> > Jean
> > 
> > On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 20:44 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 
> > 
> > > A few days ago, Nino Novak asked "is there a documentation blog?" and I
> > > answered, "Not that I know of, but perhaps we should start one if there
> > > isn't one already. I can easily set one up on blogspot or similar and
> > > have it added to the LO planet. What do the rest of you think?"
> > > 
> > > The silence may answer that question, but just in case you missed it in
> > > a thread on another topic, I'm asking it again.
> > > 
> > > Some things we could do with a blog:
> > > 1) Announce publication of chapters, books, other documents.
> > > 2) Announce what we're working on, and ask for more people to join in.
> > > 3) Remind people of things we'd like to do, and ask for people to
> > > contribute.
> > > 4) Describe ideas for new docs or improvements to old ones, asking for
> > > comments.
> > > 5) No doubt others: add your ideas.
> > > 
> > > I do not see a blog as a substitute for what we do on this list, or as a
> > > place to discuss everyday working details. I see it as more of a place
> > > for announcements, but with a way for others to comment. With the social
> > > networking buttons available, it would provide an easy way for people to
> > > pass on info to their networks: in other words, publicity for us and the
> > > docs we produce.
> > > 
> > > Comments?
> > > 
> > > --Jean
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Could we have a column like MS Crazy Office Lady covering a variety of
> > topics.
> > -- 
> > Jay Lozier
> > jsloz...@gmail.com
> > 
> 
> 
> I had to look that up. What I found was "Crabby Office Lady":
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/CH010149515.aspx?CTT=97
> 
> That's a really good suggestion and fits in with Sophie's comment about
> including usage tips. A column would work best if someone (or several
> people) were available to write articles regularly, but there's no
> reason why people can't do an occasional article, short tip, etc. We can
> also link to articles on other people's blogs, or ask for permission to
> republish them. Many people are more likely to read the blog if it has
> more than just announcements on it.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

I would recommend that one person be responsible for say a biweekly
blog, whether that person actually writes or has someone else is open. I
think if there is live person for contact it may be more effective.

Any suggestions for the first few topics? I could write something in the
next few days, just do not have a topic off the top of my head. 

Like Crabby I think it should focus on tips and tricks to do more with
LO than answer very specific user questions.
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Do we want a Documentation blog?

[planas]

Jean

On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 20:44 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> A few days ago, Nino Novak asked "is there a documentation blog?" and I
> answered, "Not that I know of, but perhaps we should start one if there
> isn't one already. I can easily set one up on blogspot or similar and
> have it added to the LO planet. What do the rest of you think?"
> 
> The silence may answer that question, but just in case you missed it in
> a thread on another topic, I'm asking it again.
> 
> Some things we could do with a blog:
> 1) Announce publication of chapters, books, other documents.
> 2) Announce what we're working on, and ask for more people to join in.
> 3) Remind people of things we'd like to do, and ask for people to
> contribute.
> 4) Describe ideas for new docs or improvements to old ones, asking for
> comments.
> 5) No doubt others: add your ideas.
> 
> I do not see a blog as a substitute for what we do on this list, or as a
> place to discuss everyday working details. I see it as more of a place
> for announcements, but with a way for others to comment. With the social
> networking buttons available, it would provide an easy way for people to
> pass on info to their networks: in other words, publicity for us and the
> docs we produce.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

Could we have a column like MS Crazy Office Lady covering a variety of
topics.
-- 
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[libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual Design

[planas]

Hello

In reviewing the OOo base documents I have an idea to use a simple
tutorial to highlight database concepts. My idea is to make library
database to show various concepts of the database. 

The idea is to show users how a relational database works and how to
design one by using a simple one. 

Is the idea reasonable to everyone?
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jsloz...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Jean

On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 13:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: 

> On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 16:53 -0400, planas wrote:
> > Jean
> > 
> > On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 05:52 +1000, Jean Weber wrote: 
> > 
> > > On Thursday, April 28, 2011, planas  wrote:
> > > > I am planning to put together a Base manual, starting next.
> > > 
> > > That's excellent news!
> > > 
> > > > OO does not
> > > > have a current manual that I could find. I will base the manual on OO
> > > > information I can find and any other information I can find.
> > > 
> > > There is an outline and 4 draft chapters of a Base Guide for OOo on
> > > the ODFAuthors wwbste, which you may fond useful. If you don't have an
> > > ODFAuthors account, I can send them to you or post them on Alfresco.
> > > 
> > > > I will post a draft outline next week for comments on Alfresco.
> > > 
> > > See above. Of course you don't have to follow the OOo guide outline.
> > > 
> > > Jean
> > > 
> > 
> > I do not have ODF Authors account. Please post the information on
> > Alfresco.
> 
> 
> The outline and 4 draft chapters are now available in the English >
> Documentation > Base Guide > OOo draft space on Alfresco.
> 
> --Jean
> 
> 

Thanks, I will look at this weekend (I hope)
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Jean

On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 05:52 +1000, Jean Weber wrote: 

> On Thursday, April 28, 2011, planas  wrote:
> > I am planning to put together a Base manual, starting next.
> 
> That's excellent news!
> 
> > OO does not
> > have a current manual that I could find. I will base the manual on OO
> > information I can find and any other information I can find.
> 
> There is an outline and 4 draft chapters of a Base Guide for OOo on
> the ODFAuthors wwbste, which you may fond useful. If you don't have an
> ODFAuthors account, I can send them to you or post them on Alfresco.
> 
> > I will post a draft outline next week for comments on Alfresco.
> 
> See above. Of course you don't have to follow the OOo guide outline.
> 
> Jean
> 

I do not have ODF Authors account. Please post the information on
Alfresco.

Thanks
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[libreoffice-documentation] Base Manual

[planas]

Hi,

I am planning to put together a Base manual, starting next. OO does not
have a current manual that I could find. I will base the manual on OO
information I can find and any other information I can find.

I will post a draft outline next week for comments on Alfresco.

Regards
-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com

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