Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
Mick Johnson wrote: As a follow-up to my previous email, we’ve decided to hand over Dspam lock, stock, and barrel to the crew at dspam-community. Thanks to everyone who expressed an interest in helping to maintain the project, I urge you to get involved with the dspam-community guys if you can. We are handing over the trademarks, copyright to the Dspam source, the Dspam website, and administration of these mailing lists. Thanks a lot, that's great news! Really appreciated. Regards, -- Aleksander Kamenik System Administrator Krediidiinfo AS an Experian Company Phone: +372 665 9649 Email: aleksan...@krediidiinfo.ee http://www.krediidiinfo.ee/ http://www.experiangroup.com/ !DSPAM:1011,496bcb20150922111648758!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
That's fantastic Mick, SN made the right decision and I'm glad to see dspam going forward again. :) Long life. -- feature, n: a documented bug | bug, n: an undocumented feature - Mario S F Ferreira signature.asc Description: Digital signature !DSPAM:1011,496bad1e150921053214135!
Re: RE: [dspam-users] Dspam project
Hallo Mick Sorry for top-posting but: THANK YOU AND I WANT TO THANK Sensory Networks FOR THIS! Kind Regards from Switzerland Steve Original-Nachricht > Datum: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:01:26 -0800 > Von: "Mick Johnson" > An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com, dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com > Betreff: RE: [dspam-users] Dspam project > Hi all, > > > > As a follow-up to my previous email, we've decided to hand over Dspam > lock, > stock, and barrel to the crew at dspam-community. Thanks to everyone who > expressed an interest in helping to maintain the project, I urge you to > get > involved with the dspam-community guys if you can. > > > > We are handing over the trademarks, copyright to the Dspam source, the > Dspam > website, and administration of these mailing lists. I'm not sure whether > they'll continue to use these lists or migrate everyone to the Sourceforge > versions, but I'll leave it to them to announce this as appropriate. > > > > Thanks for a challenging and enjoyable time working with everyone on > Dspam, > we wish the project all the best. > > > > Cheers > > Mick Johnson > > Sensory Networks > > > > From: owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com > [mailto:owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com] On Behalf Of Mick > Johnson > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:16 AM > To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com; > dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com > Subject: [dspam-users] Dspam project > > > > Hi all, > > > > Sensory's been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have > invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business > goals have changed, however, it just hasn't made as much sense to keep > devoting developers to it - something I'm well aware has generated > discussion repeatedly! > > > > We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project > simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to > transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the > community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS > repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website > content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it > is > GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. > > > > We're looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end > of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named > above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be > a > good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of > the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out > of > my hands. > > > > We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the > package as a bundle - if you are interested in purchasing that please > contact me as well. > > > > Cheers > > Mick Johnson > > Sensory Networks > > > > > > -- Sensationsangebot verlängert: GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL für nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K1308T4569a !DSPAM:1011,496ba7e7150921499388412!
RE: [dspam-users] Dspam project
Hi all, As a follow-up to my previous email, we've decided to hand over Dspam lock, stock, and barrel to the crew at dspam-community. Thanks to everyone who expressed an interest in helping to maintain the project, I urge you to get involved with the dspam-community guys if you can. We are handing over the trademarks, copyright to the Dspam source, the Dspam website, and administration of these mailing lists. I'm not sure whether they'll continue to use these lists or migrate everyone to the Sourceforge versions, but I'll leave it to them to announce this as appropriate. Thanks for a challenging and enjoyable time working with everyone on Dspam, we wish the project all the best. Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks From: owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com [mailto:owner-dspam-us...@lists.nuclearelephant.com] On Behalf Of Mick Johnson Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:16 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com; dspam-...@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: [dspam-users] Dspam project Hi all, Sensory's been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn't made as much sense to keep devoting developers to it - something I'm well aware has generated discussion repeatedly! We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. We're looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out of my hands. We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the package as a bundle - if you are interested in purchasing that please contact me as well. Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks !DSPAM:1011,496ba19e150921575514080!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
ציטוט Mick Johnson: Hi all, Hi Mick, Sensory’s been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn’t made as much sense to keep devoting developers to it – something I’m well aware has generated discussion repeatedly On1-Jan the discussion became a project: dspam-community. We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn’t make any sense for the business, so we’re looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We’ll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL’d. I'm sure, although I have not yet discussed this with the others on the dspam-community team, that we would be more than happy to rename dspam-community dspam, and continue the work dosne so far. We’re looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out of my hands. dspam-community is hosted on SF. I will contact you off list. We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the package as a bundle – if you are interested in purchasing that please contact me as well. I don't really see the community buying the copyright. There is no commercial entity to finance us, but then again, maybe someone on the list would consider a donation of the copyright to the community? Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks !DSPAM:1011,4965d999150926880171420!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
ציטוט Craig Whitmore: I (personally) am willing to look after the admin of the website/CVS etc Hi Craig, You are coordially invited to join us at dspam-community, which just may become dspam. I use dspam on a large commercial internet provider at the moment and its working well for quite a number of years. I run/look after a number of websites around New Zealand and have worked in the internet industry for many many years as systems administrator for a number of large ISP's I can get it hosted for free and also get a CVS etc set up for it. Getting it back up and running on sourceforge as well would be great (should be easy to get the login/password to get the sourceforge updated) The Mailing list I could get moved over to another server.. What exactly are you looking for when you say you are willing to sell the copyright. I also you mean the nuclearelephant.com domain name (as www.nuclearelepahnt, dspam.nuclearelephant etc all go with dspam? Thanks Craig Whitmore (Working for Orcon Internet Ltd but asking on behalf of me) On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 09:15 +0100, Guillaume HILT wrote: Well, I guess you can host the website at sourceforge. Otherwise I have a few server (with unlimited bandwith on a 100mbits connection) and some free space so I'm volunteering to host it (and leave the rest to the community). Mick Johnson a écrit : Hi all, Sensory’s been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn’t made as much sense to keep devoting developers to it – something I’m well aware has generated discussion repeatedly! We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn’t make any sense for the business, so we’re looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We’ll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL’d. We’re looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out of my hands. We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the package as a bundle – if you are interested in purchasing that please contact me as well. Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks !DSPAM:1011,4965d843150921069597310!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
I (personally) am willing to look after the admin of the website/CVS etc I use dspam on a large commercial internet provider at the moment and its working well for quite a number of years. I run/look after a number of websites around New Zealand and have worked in the internet industry for many many years as systems administrator for a number of large ISP's I can get it hosted for free and also get a CVS etc set up for it. Getting it back up and running on sourceforge as well would be great (should be easy to get the login/password to get the sourceforge updated) The Mailing list I could get moved over to another server.. What exactly are you looking for when you say you are willing to sell the copyright. I also you mean the nuclearelephant.com domain name (as www.nuclearelepahnt, dspam.nuclearelephant etc all go with dspam? Thanks Craig Whitmore (Working for Orcon Internet Ltd but asking on behalf of me) On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 09:15 +0100, Guillaume HILT wrote: > Well, I guess you can host the website at sourceforge. > Otherwise I have a few server (with unlimited bandwith on a 100mbits > connection) and some free space so I'm volunteering to host it (and > leave the rest to the community). > > Mick Johnson a écrit : > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Sensory’s been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and > > have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As > > our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn’t made as > > much sense to keep devoting developers to it – something I’m well > > aware has generated discussion repeatedly! > > > > > > > > We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam > > project simply doesn’t make any sense for the business, so we’re > > looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of > > developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the > > mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name > > dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. > > We’ll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam > > can never be un-GPL’d. > > > > > > > > We’re looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by > > the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the > > elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. > > I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a > > group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily > > admit that that determination is out of my hands. > > > > > > > > We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of > > the package as a bundle – if you are interested in purchasing that > > please contact me as well. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Mick Johnson > > > > Sensory Networks > > > > > !DSPAM:1011,4965b97e150921601013882!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
Well, I guess you can host the website at sourceforge. Otherwise I have a few server (with unlimited bandwith on a 100mbits connection) and some free space so I'm volunteering to host it (and leave the rest to the community). Mick Johnson a écrit : Hi all, Sensory's been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn't made as much sense to keep devoting developers to it -- something I'm well aware has generated discussion repeatedly! We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. We're looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out of my hands. We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the package as a bundle -- if you are interested in purchasing that please contact me as well. Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks !DSPAM:1011,4965b660150921547719576!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
David Rees wrote: On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Mick Johnson wrote: We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. I think a lot of this has already pretty much already been done... http://dspam-community.sourceforge.net/ -Dave Hello all, I wonder if this "let go but still keeping copyright" would make impossible to change the dspam-community project name to just plain dspam, at sourceforge that is. Techically, IMHO, there will be no fork but rather a relay. I also want to take this opportunity to express my profound sadness that SN as taken this much time to realize what they really wanted, but i'm looking forward, with high hopes, for the continuity of such a wonderfull piece of software. Guess what? I've just activated my SF user account! Let 2009 be a great year for DSPAM. Cheers, Hugo Monteiro. -- ci.fct.unl.pt:~# cat .signature Hugo Monteiro Email: hugo.monte...@fct.unl.pt Telefone : +351 212948300 Ext.15307 Web : http://hmonteiro.net Centro de Informática Faculdade de Ciências e Tecnologia da Universidade Nova de Lisboa Quinta da Torre 2829-516 Caparica Portugal Telefone: +351 212948596 Fax: +351 212948548 www.ci.fct.unl.pt ap...@fct.unl.pt ci.fct.unl.pt:~# _ !DSPAM:1011,49656a97150921918538042!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam project
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Mick Johnson wrote: > We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project > simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to > transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the > community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS > repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website > content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it is > GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. I think a lot of this has already pretty much already been done... http://dspam-community.sourceforge.net/ -Dave !DSPAM:1011,49654f9b150921783356324!
[dspam-users] Dspam project
Hi all, Sensory's been pretty involved with Dspam for a long time now and have invested a lot of time and resources in it over the years. As our business goals have changed, however, it just hasn't made as much sense to keep devoting developers to it - something I'm well aware has generated discussion repeatedly! We are now at the point where hosting and maintaining the Dspam project simply doesn't make any sense for the business, so we're looking to transition that over to a new, committed team of developers from the community. In short, this would consist of the mailing list, the CVS repository, the domain name dspam.nuclearelephant.com and the website content currently there. We'll maintain copyright but as you all know it is GPL code so Dspam can never be un-GPL'd. We're looking at shutting down the hosting for the Dspam server by the end of January. So if anyone is interested in taking over the elements named above, please contact me at m...@sensorynetworks.com. I think it would be a good thing for the Dspam project if this was a group effort consisting of the main contributors, but I readily admit that that determination is out of my hands. We would also consider selling the copyright along with the rest of the package as a bundle - if you are interested in purchasing that please contact me as well. Cheers Mick Johnson Sensory Networks !DSPAM:1011,496542c3150921612641558!
RE: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Le mardi 28 octobre 2008 à 17:17 +0200, Jani Partanen a écrit : > Well I have been here a few years and this is now a 4th time I think when > people speak about fork. I have said it before and say it again. Fork is > only solution if dspam gonna survive. SN just don't do anything to support > this fine program. > > Every time when there is fork talk, they will pop up here and tell you that > "We will do this and that" but they never do it. +1 - I am not a developer, hence cannot initiate the fork - but as others have already said, I am ready to help for other things (testing, translations, documentation, project management, website, etc.). IMHO, we would need at least 2 core developers to lead the project - as this would mean working a lot on dspam, people might de frightened... Moreover, I am not sure all possibly interested developers read this list. I hence propose we all rely this query on our personal blogs/websites so that the information might have a larger audience (and will hopefully been published on major opensource websites). As I guess we are all from different countries, it might also be interesting to relay the information on local websites. Could someone try and sum up what would be the required competences to set up such a fork? Cheers, Julien !DSPAM:1011,49074ab8150922051512830!
RE: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Well I have been here a few years and this is now a 4th time I think when people speak about fork. I have said it before and say it again. Fork is only solution if dspam gonna survive. SN just don't do anything to support this fine program. Every time when there is fork talk, they will pop up here and tell you that "We will do this and that" but they never do it. // JiiPee > but now, it would be nice if someone volunteers to summarize > the "problems" (what is needed/lacking/...). such a list > could be used to get back to SN or to start a new project. !DSPAM:1011,49072dc7150921248211944!
RE: [Dsp] [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Happy Monday everyone :-) This discussion is great, and as always I enjoy seeing how many people are passionate about dspam and the project. I think the key here is really finding people who want to help drive the forward development of dspam, and have the time to devote to it. Moving to sourceforge, or a new style of CVS, seems to me to be pretty secondary to that. So if you feel passionate about dspam and have the bandwidth to commit to the project, please drop us a line, because we'd love to get you more involved. cheers mick > > Looks to me for a first Step for a new Start.. there some real > interesting new Informations > But theres also always an alternative to SF. > I don’t like the SF Idea cause youll need many Stuff yourself anyway. > Ok it could (and should) be registered anyway > But there not that much usefull tools for the project (forums unusable > bugtracker can much better, slow servers and many ads) > But this is just an location discussion and as we heared (and I self > offered) there many possible locations for hosting stuff and theres > many gpl software management (trackers, supportsystem, dorums and so) > out there to host and mange this project by the ourself - the community > > But this isn’t the real important question. The real one is > Fork or no fork. > If no fork what is sn willing to do together with us (because we will > do the most work for "their" product) so asking about support in some > way from sn isn’t to much I guess. > (and I guess this wasn’t English in any way. I am sorry I cant see the > difference I just partially know the words *g*) > > And who is willing to do which kind of job/role in this project and who > will approve that? > > Maybe option is isn’t a non starter if website... stays but get new > management and support by sn... > I think there also many possible varations of these 3 options. > > So lets talk about :-) > > > PS: and im happy to started that thread... really happy to see the > ongoing discussion and information and the resulted opportunities ... > hey what im saying. If a program have a bug and project seems to be > dead simple reactive the hole project so someone solve the bug lol) > > > > > - > The third alternative (SN manage the project as now) is, to me at least, > a non-starter, and I hope "we" can move past that with one of the two > alternatives above. > > -- > Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 > 555 > Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 > 1LG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > Dsp mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.dmz.syd.sensorynetworks.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dsp !DSPAM:1011,48fcee5e150923502351708!
AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Looks to me for a first Step for a new Start.. there some real interesting new Informations But theres also always an alternative to SF. I don’t like the SF Idea cause youll need many Stuff yourself anyway. Ok it could (and should) be registered anyway But there not that much usefull tools for the project (forums unusable bugtracker can much better, slow servers and many ads) But this is just an location discussion and as we heared (and I self offered) there many possible locations for hosting stuff and theres many gpl software management (trackers, supportsystem, dorums and so) out there to host and mange this project by the ourself - the community But this isn’t the real important question. The real one is Fork or no fork. If no fork what is sn willing to do together with us (because we will do the most work for "their" product) so asking about support in some way from sn isn’t to much I guess. (and I guess this wasn’t English in any way. I am sorry I cant see the difference I just partially know the words *g*) And who is willing to do which kind of job/role in this project and who will approve that? Maybe option is isn’t a non starter if website... stays but get new management and support by sn... I think there also many possible varations of these 3 options. So lets talk about :-) PS: and im happy to started that thread... really happy to see the ongoing discussion and information and the resulted opportunities ... hey what im saying. If a program have a bug and project seems to be dead simple reactive the hole project so someone solve the bug lol) - The third alternative (SN manage the project as now) is, to me at least, a non-starter, and I hope "we" can move past that with one of the two alternatives above. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48fcce7d150928597596905!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
mouss wrote: Warning: too much speculation above. Also... SN have stated they have no intention of closing dspam. The fact that they can (with some limitations and without in any way preventing or limiting a fork) has been discussed because there seemed to be a misapprehension that they couldn't. They can, but it does not matter. What matters is that SN have so far been unable to manage the project in such a way as to give it adequate forward momentum. My view is that this was no the desire of SN but has happened because SN have no had the right management resources to throw at it, and therefore they ought to be prepared to move the project to (eg) SourceForge to allow it to continue there under new management (but without any change to ownership). The alternative would be a fork, so the same code goes to the same place (SF) and future development continues there, but SN hang on to the codebase they have now while the new codebase (with a new name) grows without their involvement and without delivering any value on their investment. The third alternative (SN manage the project as now) is, to me at least, a non-starter, and I hope "we" can move past that with one of the two alternatives above. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48fc9b70150921485624627!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Oct 18, 2008 at 1217 -0600, Scott Scriven appeared and said: > * Marcel Knol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:42:12AM -0600, Scott Scriven wrote: > > > So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain > > > DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but > > > if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. > > > Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, > > > though development skills would be helpful too. > > > > Unfortunately we do not have the time to work on the software > > itself, but if we can help by hosting something or being a > > mirror, let me know. > > Thanks. :) > > However, hosting isn't an issue. It's easy to do with free > services. What's needed are people -- developers and someone to > accept maintainer duties. Well, one way to raise the attention of others would be to publish the state of DSPAM's state of affairs on a web site, possibly a dedicated project web site or on freshmeat.net or whereever. I'm not sure how many people are on this list, and I think having a broader audience would simplify the task of finding developers. Best regards, René. -- )\._.,--,'``. fL Let GNU/Linux work for you while you take a nap. /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. R. Pfeiffer + http://web.luchs.at/ `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' - System administration + Consulting + Teaching - Got mail delivery problems? http://web.luchs.at/information/blockedmail.php pgppVDNDemi9K.pgp Description: PGP signature !DSPAM:1011,48fa2f82150921337816912!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
* Mick Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Furthermore, we're more than happy for people from the > developer community to step up and take a more active role in > terms of releases, maintenance, development, etc. For people to become more actively involved, the project needs a few things... - More infrastructure -- a bug tracker at the very least, though a full project management site would be ideal. (my preference is launchpad, but that's a topic for later) - A distributed version control system which is convenient for both temporary (feature) and permanent (release) branches, and allows private commits without mainline write access. - More transparent processes and management, showing who is involved, how code gets reviewed/tested/accepted, how releases are made, etc. - Ways to educate new contributors. Some ideas are public code reviews, mentoring, hacking guides, a project wiki, bugs tagged as bite-sized, a public question-and-answer forum, ... There are some good ideas in this paper: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/papers/community-agile/community-agile.html Especially in section 5, technical practices, some of the ideas would be useful for dspam. > If you are interested in doing so please drop me a line and > we'll set up CVS rights etc. If the amount of third-party dspam patches is any indication, CVS is not sufficient for managing dspam's source. Using a DVCS would probably help quite a bit. -- Scott !DSPAM:1011,48fa2f65150926082618074!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
* Marcel Knol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:42:12AM -0600, Scott Scriven wrote: > > So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain > > DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but > > if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. > > Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, > > though development skills would be helpful too. > > Unfortunately we do not have the time to work on the software > itself, but if we can help by hosting something or being a > mirror, let me know. Thanks. :) However, hosting isn't an issue. It's easy to do with free services. What's needed are people -- developers and someone to accept maintainer duties. I'd volunteer, but I know I'm too random and inconsistent to be a dspam maintainer or core developer. My attention span isn't nearly long enough for that. However, I could set up project infrastructure, help people learn the new development processes, and provide occasional drive-by patches. -- Scott !DSPAM:1011,48fa2832150928484815377!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster a écrit : > Hmm sorry I didn’t know that the rights are sold. > But why they dindt do anything? > But in that case (maybe im wrong tell me if iam) I see no chance to make a > fork. Ok its gpl but wont the right still reserved at sensory networks? The COPYRIGHT owner can change the license, but this doesn't apply to code that is previously released under an open source license. Imagine a company that used the code in their product (without infringing the LICENSE). You don't imagine somebody coming one day and saying: "oh, now, you have to drop all that because it's ours. sorry for the N years you lost working on this stuff". so IANAL, but I believe you can fork the code (and I guess the product name must be changed). That said, it woudn't be good to have N forks, unless you believe in "evolutionary theory" which would imply that one of the forks will "win". (amavisd-new is an example). but now, it would be nice if someone volunteers to summarize the "problems" (what is needed/lacking/...). such a list could be used to get back to SN or to start a new project. > Dont understand me wrong but that might be a free support for sensory > without something coming back. Wont be a good idea I think > I can't speak for SN, but I could speculate: - They were convinced that dspam is a good product, and found it good to acquire the Copyright. They hope(d) that they will get benefits from that. for example: support, creaton of a commercial version (something like mysql AB business model), selling a dspam appliance, ... etc - The benefits are not obvious enough (or not short term) so they can't dedicate enough resources (today). (again, this is speculation). now, stop asking Mike to give you "internal" details. Unless they took a clear decision on this subject and that decision is not confidential, he can tell you nothing. I guess many here have worked or work in commercial companies and understand this. At least, this was my experience in all the companies I worked for. This was frustrating many times, but that's it. Many times, I would have preferred giving a clear statement and explaining what our plans were, but I worked in R&D, not in strategy/bus dev/legal/... etc. Warning: too much speculation above. !DSPAM:1011,48fa1447150924254718560!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
David Rees a écrit : > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:20 AM, Mark Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I don't know if all contributions to the codebase from other developers had >> the copyright signed over to Jonathon, so it may be that they themselves >> only have the right to use some parts of the code under the GPL (that's >> where it gets a bit messy), but assuming they have copyright to the full >> code they do *not* have to abide by the GPL themselves. > > So I guess the question is - did anyone who submitted any significant > amount of work to dspam also transfer copyright to Jon (and thus > Sensory)? > $ grep COPYRIGHT */* |grep -v ZDZIARSKI src/external_lookup.c: COPYRIGHT (C) 2006 HUGO MONTEIRO src/external_lookup.h: COPYRIGHT (C) 2006 HUGO MONTEIRO so SN can "fork" a commercial version while keeping external_lookup.* open, or they can acquire the copyright for this, or they can rewrite it. > If not, then it's quite clear that unless Sensory did remove those > contributions, they would effectively be unable to take a copy of the > codebase and close source dspam as it is now. > >> To be clear: >> * SN can do what they like with the code, they're not bound by the GPL > > Only if they own copyright for all of the code. If care wasn't taken > by contributors to give copyright to Jon/Sensory, then they do not own > all the code and are in fact, bound by the GPL. > !DSPAM:1011,48fa0b2b150929903538892!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 12:17 -0700, David Rees wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:20 AM, Mark Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't know if all contributions to the codebase from other developers had > > the copyright signed over to Jonathon, so it may be that they themselves > > only have the right to use some parts of the code under the GPL (that's > > where it gets a bit messy), but assuming they have copyright to the full > > code they do *not* have to abide by the GPL themselves. > > So I guess the question is - did anyone who submitted any significant > amount of work to dspam also transfer copyright to Jon (and thus > Sensory)? > > If not, then it's quite clear that unless Sensory did remove those > contributions, they would effectively be unable to take a copy of the > codebase and close source dspam as it is now. I think Jon's idea that no one "owned" Dspam. from the nuclear elephant webpage and it was a 100% GPL project. (Unless jon wants to disagree :-) ). Jon looked after the project in the past and now its SN who are the "governors" of the dspam project. "In order to keep DSPAM unencumbered by intellectual property complications, all external contributors to the project are asked to release any rights to the submission. This keeps the DSPAM project a healthy, unencumbered GPL project. Please accompany your patch, code, or other submission with the following statement. By submitting a patch to the project, you agree to be bound by the terms of this statement whether it is specifically included in the submission or not, however we still require that it be attached to the submission: The author or authors of this submission hereby release any and all copyright interest in this code, documentation, or other materials included to the DSPAM project and its primary governors. We intend this relinquishment of copyright interest in perpetuity of all present and future rights to said submission under copyright law." !DSPAM:1011,48f8fe86150921060959110!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:20 AM, Mark Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know if all contributions to the codebase from other developers had > the copyright signed over to Jonathon, so it may be that they themselves > only have the right to use some parts of the code under the GPL (that's > where it gets a bit messy), but assuming they have copyright to the full > code they do *not* have to abide by the GPL themselves. So I guess the question is - did anyone who submitted any significant amount of work to dspam also transfer copyright to Jon (and thus Sensory)? If not, then it's quite clear that unless Sensory did remove those contributions, they would effectively be unable to take a copy of the codebase and close source dspam as it is now. > To be clear: > * SN can do what they like with the code, they're not bound by the GPL Only if they own copyright for all of the code. If care wasn't taken by contributors to give copyright to Jon/Sensory, then they do not own all the code and are in fact, bound by the GPL. -Dave !DSPAM:1011,48f8e4d1150927752411495!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Original-Nachricht > Datum: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:20:57 +0100 > Von: Mark Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? > Craig Whitmore wrote: > > SN have the same rights to use it as everyone else in the world does as > > long as they follow the GPLv2 Licence. > > > > SN have the copyright to the code, which the bought from Jonathon. They > can do what they like with the code. > > As the copyright holder, they have released the code to "us" (the rest > of the world) under the GPL. However its still their code and they can > close it whenever they want. However, the code already out there under > the GPL *cannot* be taken out of the GPL by anyone. > > I don't know if all contributions to the codebase from other developers > had the copyright signed over to Jonathon, so it may be that they > themselves only have the right to use some parts of the code under the > GPL (that's where it gets a bit messy), but assuming they have copyright > to the full code they do *not* have to abide by the GPL themselves. > > To be clear: > * SN can do what they like with the code, they're not bound by the GPL > * SN have said they have no intention to release code other than under > the GPL > * Once code has been released under GPL it is "safe", it cannot be taken > back. > > Of-course IANAL and I am ready to be corrected :-) > You are right. SN can not take back GPLv2 code. And you are as well right with Jonz about code contributed by others: They had formally to hand over the copyright to Jonz and SN is doing the same. And you are as well right, that SN can take the current dSpam and produce out of it an closed source product. Any one can close any GPL code if they get the approval from the copyright holders. And since SN is the only copyright holder of the dSpam code, then can just ask them self if they can close the product. SN on the other hand can integrate any contributed code into dSpam or any other GPL code into dSpam. But they are not allowed to push out that merged dSpam in a closed source product without asking the other contributors if they are allowed to do so. Sorry for the long and messy text, but English is not my native language. > -- > Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 > Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG > > > > -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger !DSPAM:1011,48f88c2b150929386952693!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Craig Whitmore wrote: SN have the same rights to use it as everyone else in the world does as long as they follow the GPLv2 Licence. SN have the copyright to the code, which the bought from Jonathon. They can do what they like with the code. As the copyright holder, they have released the code to "us" (the rest of the world) under the GPL. However its still their code and they can close it whenever they want. However, the code already out there under the GPL *cannot* be taken out of the GPL by anyone. I don't know if all contributions to the codebase from other developers had the copyright signed over to Jonathon, so it may be that they themselves only have the right to use some parts of the code under the GPL (that's where it gets a bit messy), but assuming they have copyright to the full code they do *not* have to abide by the GPL themselves. To be clear: * SN can do what they like with the code, they're not bound by the GPL * SN have said they have no intention to release code other than under the GPL * Once code has been released under GPL it is "safe", it cannot be taken back. Of-course IANAL and I am ready to be corrected :-) -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f8670b150925920117747!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 10:24 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote: > Mick Johnson wrote: > > The current state is that Sensory owns the copyright to the project, but as > > noted on the list it's GPLv2 and we have no intention of changing that. > > > > If I understand correctly, this means that anyone is free to develop the > code under the GPL, but only SN have the rights to take the existing > code base and develop a closed-source version (or for that matter decide > to release it under a different licence). Of-course taking the existing > codebase and created a closed source derivative would not affect anyone > using (or forking) the GPL code. > If code is GPLv2 then it will always be GPLv2. You cannot "fork" it off to another non-GPLv2 fork as it includes the orginal GPLv2 code. This is one of the great things about GPLv2 code. SN have the same rights to use it as everyone else in the world does as long as they follow the GPLv2 Licence. I (and anyone else in the world) copy the code,change it release new versions, even (try) and sell the software myself as long as they follow the GPLv2 Licence terms (GPLv2 is great eh?) If SN release say a commercial version of the software then they will have to do a few things to make it GPLv2 complient (have a written offer for the source code and include the GPLv2 Licence with the software) I would think SN would more sell "support" for the software rather than the software itself (as its GPLv2 Licenced) I use dspam in a very large mail cluster and dspam is great and have used it for many years and Jon even included a few things into dspam that I asked for and I think I submitted quite a number of bug reports/fixes (it was years ago) Thanks Craig !DSPAM:1011,48f861bd15092608567!
Re: [**SPAM?**] Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hello On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 10:24 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote: > Mick Johnson wrote: > > The current state is that Sensory owns the copyright to the project, but as > > noted on the list it's GPLv2 and we have no intention of changing that. > > > > If I understand correctly, this means that anyone is free to develop the > code under the GPL, but only SN have the rights to take the existing > code base and develop a closed-source version (or for that matter decide > to release it under a different licence). Of-course taking the existing > codebase and created a closed source derivative would not affect anyone > using (or forking) the GPL code. > > This is all academic if SN have no intention of creating a closed source > version, but might help others understand the licensing. In effect only > SN have the right to tweak the code and release binaries without also > releasing the new code under the GPL, but SN have no plans to make use > of that right, or (presumably) to sell that right on, and were that to > change it would have no bearing on the continued use and development of > the GPL'd code. > > Can I ask you, Mike, what SN's overall perspective on the status of > dSpam is? If I were to guess, I'd say that it was taken on with plans to > develop it and do all the "right" things (develop the documentation, > have releases, sell support, etc), but for whatever reason (change of > personnel, or personnel just too busy on other projects) those things > have not happened. I've certainly taken on commitments myself in the > past that I've then failed to deliver on. > > If any of this is the case, then given where we are now what would SN > actually want to happen? Presumably as SN hold the copyright you'd like > to see the product develop and grow so that your ownership of dSpam has > some value, even if for whatever reason SN haven't been able to manage > that effectively so far. > > My guess is that "you" (SN) would prefer dSpam to grow without a fork, > and hopefully recognise that this isn't happening with SN taking a > central role. If so, would SN actively support a migration to (say) > SourceForge? > > > If you are interested in doing so please drop me a line and we'll set up CVS > > rights etc. > > > > I can't speak for others but I would be concerned about leaving the > overall management of the project in SN's hands given how things have > progressed in the past 18 months, and I really am trying to say that > without offending SN (although I probably failed). There have been > occasions where the dSpam website has been down for long periods, the > dev- mailing list has not worked for some months. Surely SN would prefer > to have someone else take on that management role so that you can > continue to make technical contributions without also having to do the > babysitting? > > It would be a huge shame for SN to manage to kill dSpam when I am > absolutely convinced this is the complete opposite of what SN want to > do. Unfortunately what happens at the moment is that every few months > some momentum builds up here around the idea of taking dSpam forward, > and then SN step up and promise to be more supportive and that things > will change, but they don't and it all goes quiet for a few months then > kicks off again. I really understand SN's desire for the situation to be > different but I think the time has come for SN to recognise that their > strengths and the support they can offer to dSpam are in areas other > than managing the project. > > NB: For all of the above reasons I will not be volunteering to manage > dSpam either. I'd love to do it, but I know that I'd kill it by trying. > I've been trying to find the time for months to write a new PHP web > interface for dSpam and not even managed that! I would hope that anyone > who does offer to take the role on (whether supported by SN or as a > fork) understands what they are letting themselves in for and only makes > commitments they can keep (which is why I'm +1 for using SourceForge, > Google Code or somewhere similar rather than taking up the offer of any > individual). > > -- > Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 > Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG > > We use dSpam for our company and offer this as a service for thousand customers. Part (a little, but always some)of our business is trusting dSpam. So, given that, and if any proprietor licenses is going away, I would be more than happy to place a paid full time developer (we have a team of 10 active developers working full time) to keep dSpam running. Also, will provide Hosting for it (we run 6 different datacenters and can perform very well). I believe there are interests from many sides in having dSpam running without a fork (that we could do ourselves). Hope this helps Regards > > > > > -- Pablo P
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Mick Johnson wrote: The current state is that Sensory owns the copyright to the project, but as noted on the list it's GPLv2 and we have no intention of changing that. If I understand correctly, this means that anyone is free to develop the code under the GPL, but only SN have the rights to take the existing code base and develop a closed-source version (or for that matter decide to release it under a different licence). Of-course taking the existing codebase and created a closed source derivative would not affect anyone using (or forking) the GPL code. This is all academic if SN have no intention of creating a closed source version, but might help others understand the licensing. In effect only SN have the right to tweak the code and release binaries without also releasing the new code under the GPL, but SN have no plans to make use of that right, or (presumably) to sell that right on, and were that to change it would have no bearing on the continued use and development of the GPL'd code. Can I ask you, Mike, what SN's overall perspective on the status of dSpam is? If I were to guess, I'd say that it was taken on with plans to develop it and do all the "right" things (develop the documentation, have releases, sell support, etc), but for whatever reason (change of personnel, or personnel just too busy on other projects) those things have not happened. I've certainly taken on commitments myself in the past that I've then failed to deliver on. If any of this is the case, then given where we are now what would SN actually want to happen? Presumably as SN hold the copyright you'd like to see the product develop and grow so that your ownership of dSpam has some value, even if for whatever reason SN haven't been able to manage that effectively so far. My guess is that "you" (SN) would prefer dSpam to grow without a fork, and hopefully recognise that this isn't happening with SN taking a central role. If so, would SN actively support a migration to (say) SourceForge? If you are interested in doing so please drop me a line and we'll set up CVS rights etc. I can't speak for others but I would be concerned about leaving the overall management of the project in SN's hands given how things have progressed in the past 18 months, and I really am trying to say that without offending SN (although I probably failed). There have been occasions where the dSpam website has been down for long periods, the dev- mailing list has not worked for some months. Surely SN would prefer to have someone else take on that management role so that you can continue to make technical contributions without also having to do the babysitting? It would be a huge shame for SN to manage to kill dSpam when I am absolutely convinced this is the complete opposite of what SN want to do. Unfortunately what happens at the moment is that every few months some momentum builds up here around the idea of taking dSpam forward, and then SN step up and promise to be more supportive and that things will change, but they don't and it all goes quiet for a few months then kicks off again. I really understand SN's desire for the situation to be different but I think the time has come for SN to recognise that their strengths and the support they can offer to dSpam are in areas other than managing the project. NB: For all of the above reasons I will not be volunteering to manage dSpam either. I'd love to do it, but I know that I'd kill it by trying. I've been trying to find the time for months to write a new PHP web interface for dSpam and not even managed that! I would hope that anyone who does offer to take the role on (whether supported by SN or as a fork) understands what they are letting themselves in for and only makes commitments they can keep (which is why I'm +1 for using SourceForge, Google Code or somewhere similar rather than taking up the offer of any individual). -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f859e3150922969763757!
RE: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
> > The gplv2 does clearly state that the software is free. However, > > Jonathan said that we should ask them first if anyone's maintaining > it > > and if not, ask them if we could. He said it may be a good > opportunity > > for us to fork it. > > > > Historically this is the point in the thread where someone from SN pops > up and says that they are actively maintaining it or wish to or are > otherwise trying to make progress. *ding ding ding* right on schedule :-) >From Sensory's perspective we see Dspam as a great project and one we've contributed a lot to over the years, both during the time Jonathan was driving it and also afterwards. The current state is that Sensory owns the copyright to the project, but as noted on the list it's GPLv2 and we have no intention of changing that. Furthermore, we're more than happy for people from the developer community to step up and take a more active role in terms of releases, maintenance, development, etc. If you are interested in doing so please drop me a line and we'll set up CVS rights etc. Cheers mick !DSPAM:1011,48f7a604150921827718357!
Re: AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster kirjoitti: > First suexec for the webinterface is horrible, > Second still using files for protocol and statistics while > the userprefs are storend in mysql also not that good. > These things causes some permission problems. Good point. I just scrapped the web parts, as they felt dubious and I haven't even thought about them ever since. I do the training the way my friend suggested: let DSpam only tag mail and then use procmail to send spam to specific folder. Then I have two special folders "ThisIsSpam" and "ThisIsNotSpam" that are periodically scanned (by cron job) and any mail in them is re-trained. This is also a lot more user-friendly, as all the training and spam-double-checking can be done with the same UI, your regular mail reader. -Jari !DSPAM:1011,48f7a2af150921320450736!
AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Jari sorry but that’s not really true. Im not talking about out of the box installation, and documentation is madeable by anyone. But depending which kind of installation you use (special daemon mode) there are some real issues that are not wirking for most. Theres also a lack of some major changes. First suexec for the webinterface is horrible, Second still using files for protocol and statistics while the userprefs are storend in mysql also not that good. These things causes some permission problems. So here is some kind of improvement necessary. (and there many possible solutions how to solve that) Ife also no dspam logfile with the svn version (I just get binary waste into it) And if I use the daemon in background the errormessages get transported to the foreground in the console (lol) There should be also a damon background mode for the star-stop-daemon and some fallback solutions. (messages get lost or going to the dspam user if database server is down) These are major things... It would be also good having a framework or something like that for the webui instead of an perl script. I really don’t like it from the point of security view. That we need an htaccess access is also not optimal. There better ways But no one can do a new webinterface nonper based (lets say based on java or php) without active delevopment. I know many people still loves perl but special with suexec it’s a major security thread. And were still not talking about the mostly non or badworking group support. Here many things nesecarry. Also you cannot control what groups doing and how good they working. Not systemwide. Also make no sense having a managed,shared group but having splittet historys Theres also a problem with forwarding multiple emails for trainings (with mysql signature). I asked on that list bevore but got no response so I think its really not possible (if I forward 2 emails for traing both get detected I dan see in the debug log but only one of them get accepted if someone knows something ...:-) Next thing is you’ve no real working overview (if you use spamtraps) how good theyre working . So dspam is often working as a blackbox and you can simply hope. Ok you can turn on debug but that make no real sense.. There many not ready or not really production useable even with 15 users and far not with 1500. About the license. I don’t think its that easy to fork it even in gpl. Im not an gplv2 specialist but it means not everyone can form and restart it again( I think) there some reason why some gpl projects got sold for a billion or 2 :-) And only getting the approved maintainance without be shure about the license make no sense. By all love to dspam im not willing to support a company which bought a software and wait for their users to develop it. About SOURCEFORGE Partitial maby but sourceforge have some major disadvantages. You cannot really use their forums for supporting. Their bugtracking is also not the top of the food line. There better solutions and as we can see many people wanna support. I would see it some people hosting parts of it. There many way to do that. But theres a reason why the most bigger projects are only for downloads or as an list entry at sourceforge but their project sites, tracker and forums are hosted privately Sourceforge has also many advertising. But honestly if this project get forged im shure we can easily cover all hosting costs by using own ads or simply use non... The point is the project maintainers can decide if they wanna have this while at sourceforge you have to and get only a little space on real slow server. Jari Juslin I half agree here. DSpam could use a lot more documentation and ease-of-installation,.. !DSPAM:1011,48f79da4150921566013356!
Re: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Erwin Rennert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As others who have posted on the subject lately, I am prepared to offer > Web/wiki/cvs space on a reasonably well connected host. I am also > willing to assemble/review some documentation. I am not, however a > developer. Personally, I would rather see it hosted by sourceforge or google code... -Dave !DSPAM:1011,48f78b8a150926570013767!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster kirjoitti: > Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about > the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable > But it isn’t that finished solution in any way. I half agree here. DSpam could use a lot more documentation and ease-of-installation, but it's by no means dead in the current state. It has worked fine for years, and still works better or equally well than any other spam filtering software I have seen. Yes, nicer packaging and regular releases would be nice, but I do not see DSpam dying anytime soon. That's the niciness of good self-learning software; you do not need a developer to teach it new tricks. So thumbs up for the people who are willing to organize the release schedules and all that. -Jari !DSPAM:1011,48f750c7150921094773438!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Mohammed Alli wrote: The gplv2 does clearly state that the software is free. However, Jonathan said that we should ask them first if anyone's maintaining it and if not, ask them if we could. He said it may be a good opportunity for us to fork it. Historically this is the point in the thread where someone from SN pops up and says that they are actively maintaining it or wish to or are otherwise trying to make progress. I have to say that this mailing list is pretty quiet but does suddenly become lively when anyone suggests a fork. The -dev list seems to be dead (ie broken). There's been no release in over 18 months, which contrasts with the preceding 18 months in which there were 10 releases (3.6.0 through 3.6.8 then 3.8.0): http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/download.shtml If those maintaining the active packages (eg Gentoo) are willing to (or even better would like to) support a fork then there really doesn't seem to be any good reason not to fork. It is a shame, I am sure SN took dSpam on with great intentions and not planning to kill it. Maybe the best thing they can do is to actively seek a community to take it on to avoid the need for a fork. I suspect that they can't or won't do that as is it will highlight the lack of return on investment they've achieved, but dSpam is too important to allow it to fail. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f74a6a150921688713248!
AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
The gplv2 does clearly state that the software is free. However, Jonathan said that we should ask them first if anyone's maintaining it and if not, ask them if we could. He said it may be a good opportunity for us to fork it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carlo Rodrigues Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:44 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? I don't understand this kind of legal issues. If the dspam license is GPLv2, what kind of practical rights does Sensory Network hold? From http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/license.shtml , "Preamble The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users". Carlo Rodrigues Mohammed Alli wrote: > I'm included on the list of people who are using 3.6.8 and that's > because I'm running The SpamSnake based on Ubuntu. I would have 2 > completely different versions of the SpamSnake, however, I couldn't get > the history page to work using shared,manage on 3.6.8. Instead, I use it > after MailScanner, to supplement Spamassassin in the fight against spam. > > > I contacted Jonathan A. Zdziarski himself and he told me about the > rights being sold. If someone or a group of people wants to > develop/maintain the Dspam project, I think it would be wise to first > contact Sensory Networks. They may not want us messing around with > their software and would probably expect us to donate something in > return for their permission to maintain it. > > > - !DSPAM:1011,48f7465a150929621344029!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I don't understand this kind of legal issues. If the dspam license is GPLv2, what kind of practical rights does Sensory Network hold? From http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/license.shtml , "Preamble The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users". Carlo Rodrigues Mohammed Alli wrote: I'm included on the list of people who are using 3.6.8 and that's because I'm running The SpamSnake based on Ubuntu. I would have 2 completely different versions of the SpamSnake, however, I couldn't get the history page to work using shared,manage on 3.6.8. Instead, I use it after MailScanner, to supplement Spamassassin in the fight against spam. I contacted Jonathan A. Zdziarski himself and he told me about the rights being sold. If someone or a group of people wants to develop/maintain the Dspam project, I think it would be wise to first contact Sensory Networks. They may not want us messing around with their software and would probably expect us to donate something in return for their permission to maintain it. - !DSPAM:1011,48f7452f150921577916641!
RE: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I'm sorry, I meant I couldn't get the quarantine feature to work in 3.6.8. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mohammed Alli Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:35 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: RE: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? I'm included on the list of people who are using 3.6.8 and that's because I'm running The SpamSnake based on Ubuntu. I would have 2 completely different versions of the SpamSnake, however, I couldn't get the history page to work using shared,manage on 3.6.8. Instead, I use it after MailScanner, to supplement Spamassassin in the fight against spam. I contacted Jonathan A. Zdziarski himself and he told me about the rights being sold. If someone or a group of people wants to develop/maintain the Dspam project, I think it would be wise to first contact Sensory Networks. They may not want us messing around with their software and would probably expect us to donate something in return for their permission to maintain it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Rogers Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:30 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: > Sorry mark but I cant agree > > Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about > the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable > OK, maybe I should be clearer. Maintenance is essential. That means someone (or a group of people) must collect patches, keep the source repository up to date and (this is the bit that is missing) manage releases. Ideally they should actively liase with distro package maintainers to see the current release available as a package for those distros. All of these things will allow the userbase to increase not decline. With an increasing userbase there will be (a) an increase in the number of things on the dspam "wish list", and (b) an increase in the number of developers able and (crucially) willing to act on them. With the above maintenance in place the route for those improvements to get out to the users is already there. However, whilst I can get involved in some aspects of the coding (primarily in the web interface), I'm currently "stuck" at 3.6.8 because I choose not to use custom builds on production servers and I'm using Debian packages for everything else. There will be many people who are not interested in relying on CVS builds for production systems and without them the chances of finding active developers will dwindle. I'm sure that most of us do not routinely build our own kernels and Apache, Postfix, Perl, etc, even though many of us are more than capable of doing so. The number of people asking questions on this list about 3.6.8 confirms this - in theory nobody should really be using 3.6.8 anymore, yet many many people are still installing it on new systems, never mind maintaining it on legacy systems. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f736ba150921293570181!
RE: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I'm included on the list of people who are using 3.6.8 and that's because I'm running The SpamSnake based on Ubuntu. I would have 2 completely different versions of the SpamSnake, however, I couldn't get the history page to work using shared,manage on 3.6.8. Instead, I use it after MailScanner, to supplement Spamassassin in the fight against spam. I contacted Jonathan A. Zdziarski himself and he told me about the rights being sold. If someone or a group of people wants to develop/maintain the Dspam project, I think it would be wise to first contact Sensory Networks. They may not want us messing around with their software and would probably expect us to donate something in return for their permission to maintain it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Rogers Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:30 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: > Sorry mark but I cant agree > > Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about > the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable > OK, maybe I should be clearer. Maintenance is essential. That means someone (or a group of people) must collect patches, keep the source repository up to date and (this is the bit that is missing) manage releases. Ideally they should actively liase with distro package maintainers to see the current release available as a package for those distros. All of these things will allow the userbase to increase not decline. With an increasing userbase there will be (a) an increase in the number of things on the dspam "wish list", and (b) an increase in the number of developers able and (crucially) willing to act on them. With the above maintenance in place the route for those improvements to get out to the users is already there. However, whilst I can get involved in some aspects of the coding (primarily in the web interface), I'm currently "stuck" at 3.6.8 because I choose not to use custom builds on production servers and I'm using Debian packages for everything else. There will be many people who are not interested in relying on CVS builds for production systems and without them the chances of finding active developers will dwindle. I'm sure that most of us do not routinely build our own kernels and Apache, Postfix, Perl, etc, even though many of us are more than capable of doing so. The number of people asking questions on this list about 3.6.8 confirms this - in theory nobody should really be using 3.6.8 anymore, yet many many people are still installing it on new systems, never mind maintaining it on legacy systems. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f735aa150921047970997!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: Sorry mark but I cant agree Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable OK, maybe I should be clearer. Maintenance is essential. That means someone (or a group of people) must collect patches, keep the source repository up to date and (this is the bit that is missing) manage releases. Ideally they should actively liase with distro package maintainers to see the current release available as a package for those distros. All of these things will allow the userbase to increase not decline. With an increasing userbase there will be (a) an increase in the number of things on the dspam "wish list", and (b) an increase in the number of developers able and (crucially) willing to act on them. With the above maintenance in place the route for those improvements to get out to the users is already there. However, whilst I can get involved in some aspects of the coding (primarily in the web interface), I'm currently "stuck" at 3.6.8 because I choose not to use custom builds on production servers and I'm using Debian packages for everything else. There will be many people who are not interested in relying on CVS builds for production systems and without them the chances of finding active developers will dwindle. I'm sure that most of us do not routinely build our own kernels and Apache, Postfix, Perl, etc, even though many of us are more than capable of doing so. The number of people asking questions on this list about 3.6.8 confirms this - in theory nobody should really be using 3.6.8 anymore, yet many many people are still installing it on new systems, never mind maintaining it on legacy systems. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f733c4150925707858403!
AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hmm sorry I didnt know that the rights are sold. But why they dindt do anything? But in that case (maybe im wrong tell me if iam) I see no chance to make a fork. Ok its gpl but wont the right still reserved at sensory networks? Dont understand me wrong but that might be a free support for sensory without something coming back. Wont be a good idea I think -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mohammed Alli Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2008 15:12 An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? Well since the rights to Dspam was sold to Sensory Networks, it will be up to us to develop it. Although I'm not a programmer, I'd like to see this project maintained. It's very powerful, but does lack fine tuning. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Imposit.com - Webmaster Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? @Hendrikx Youve got the Point. Look I think we must look for a lifesing from the original Maintainer. There might be manyreasons why the projects semms to be frozen. Maybe lack of communityresponse or whatever else. And youre right if nothing comes from there the project dspam itself is dead and maybe a fork is the solution. In any case code developers needed. Simply to help the maintainer or restart fresh... This is one absolute basic thing, that's why im aksing about a lifesign Without that any additional help and support, any ideas and bugfixing is worthless and we can forget dspam. There some people willig to make a new php based frontend but wont help without core developers and theyre hard to find for this project (its seems to be hmm) !DSPAM:1011,48f7334f150928055189282!
AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Well since the rights to Dspam was sold to Sensory Networks, it will be up to us to develop it. Although I'm not a programmer, I'd like to see this project maintained. It's very powerful, but does lack fine tuning. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Imposit.com - Webmaster Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Subject: AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? @Hendrikx Youve got the Point. Look I think we must look for a lifesing from the original Maintainer. There might be manyreasons why the projects semms to be frozen. Maybe lack of communityresponse or whatever else. And youre right if nothing comes from there the project dspam itself is dead and maybe a fork is the solution. In any case code developers needed. Simply to help the maintainer or restart fresh... This is one absolute basic thing, that's why im aksing about a lifesign Without that any additional help and support, any ideas and bugfixing is worthless and we can forget dspam. There some people willig to make a new php based frontend but wont help without core developers and theyre hard to find for this project (its seems to be hmm) !DSPAM:1011,48f73032150927981261214!
AW: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
@Hendrikx Youve got the Point. Look I think we must look for a lifesing from the original Maintainer. There might be manyreasons why the projects semms to be frozen. Maybe lack of communityresponse or whatever else. And youre right if nothing comes from there the project dspam itself is dead and maybe a fork is the solution. In any case code developers needed. Simply to help the maintainer or restart fresh... This is one absolute basic thing, that’s why im aksing about a lifesign Without that any additional help and support, any ideas and bugfixing is worthless and we can forget dspam. There some people willig to make a new php based frontend but wont help without core developers and theyre hard to find for this project (its seems to be hmm) !DSPAM:1011,48f722a8150921917292142!
Re: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
As others who have posted on the subject lately, I am prepared to offer Web/wiki/cvs space on a reasonably well connected host. I am also willing to assemble/review some documentation. I am not, however a developer. - Erwin On 10/16/2008 10:20 AM, Mark Rogers wrote: Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: Another problem is we still don't know really which problems still exist which not.. theres no overview about the user problems and wishes, no one about 3rd party addons and tools.. The whole issue of releases is a major problem with dspam. It shouldn't be expected that everyone installs from CVS. Distro packages are important, for example - a lot of people are still using 3.6.8 from the Debian repositories. As I understand it the released 3.8.0 isn't great, it needs patching, and the likelihood of getting a major distro to create packages from a CVS snapshot is minimal, with the exception of Gentoo. Distro packages are important, as they provide a mechanism for bug fixes and security updates to be distributed to users who simply will not monitor the mailing lists and download and install individual patches as they come out. (I am one of those people, I use 3.6.8 from Ubuntu's repos.) -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Erwin Rennert, IT Services Center for Social Innovation !DSPAM:1011,48f72072150921270011607!
Re: AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hi, To make this work, you'll need active development, that's true. The idea of a fork (or whatever you like to call it), is that you're taking the work in your own hands, and no longer depend on the old/pre-fork developers. Given the fact that the whole problem right now is that the current developers do not give any lifesigns, it is not realistic that you want to support them more, or want want to depend on them before you try to kickstart anything based on the current codebase. When they want to leave the project in someone else's hands, they could've sent an e-mail to this list and invite people to take active part in the project, and then delete their own CVS accounts. This is not the case, and when such a thing doesn't happen after this e-mail conversation (or after any of the numerous earlier fork-related threads on this list), the only conclusion is to just fork and start a new project. Set up a development environment, import the codebase, put up bugtrackers, wiki's and the like and start hacking. The one thing that you lack, at the moment, are the people that can continue to work on the codebase. This list contains people that want to host project stuff, test (beta) releases and patches, file bugs, add ideas or even write documentation, but I haven't heard anyone saying: "yes I want to start hacking on this codebase right away". When you find these people, all the rest is trivial. So the question really is: are there people willing to get their hands dirty on this codebase, and spend some time to improve DSPAM? -- Regards, Tom Imposit.com - Webmaster schreef: > Sorry mark but I cant agree > > Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about > the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable > But it isn’t that finished solution in any way. > There much things to do and many improvements and we need a future not a > short wound fixing idea > > An server side multiuser antispam solution isn’t a thing you can change > within one day. > Every server need documentation for their users how to use it. > What do you think will happen when even a small server has to change from > dspam to another software? > > And this WILL happen without active development AND maintance. > > The thing about packages and release is just the end of the production line. > An important no question. but only a part. > > Without future developing the project is death. Maybe you can fix some > wounds but what is about some improvements or better webui (some people > wanna do that but they scared that the base is death so they wont start it) > And what is in 2 years ? > > There also some things open beside the bugs (like the whole group thing > isn’t that production ready) > > Im sorry but without active lifesing by the project maintainers ill see no > future > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mark > Rogers > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2008 12:12 > An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? > > Marcin M. Jessa wrote: >> Sure, the idea was to try to make the life easier for people who need >> prepackaged software. >> I am not saying Linux is better or worse, I am just saying I experienced >> it's easier to get package updates upstream on BSDs. > > This may be part of a way forward. I understand that the Gentoo packages > are pretty up to date and well maintained, and it sounds like the same > is true on the BSD side? > > What would be needed for one of those to be used as the base for general > releases? > > Dspam probably doesn't need any active development as much as it needs > active maintenance, and that already exists elsewhere. We just need to > take advantage of it in a way which doesn't cause those maintainers a > headache. > !DSPAM:1011,48f71eae150922763930711!
AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Sorry mark but I cant agree Dspam need active development. The current state (and im not talking about the bugs) is maybe somekind of stable But it isnt that finished solution in any way. There much things to do and many improvements and we need a future not a short wound fixing idea An server side multiuser antispam solution isnt a thing you can change within one day. Every server need documentation for their users how to use it. What do you think will happen when even a small server has to change from dspam to another software? And this WILL happen without active development AND maintance. The thing about packages and release is just the end of the production line. An important no question. but only a part. Without future developing the project is death. Maybe you can fix some wounds but what is about some improvements or better webui (some people wanna do that but they scared that the base is death so they wont start it) And what is in 2 years ? There also some things open beside the bugs (like the whole group thing isnt that production ready) Im sorry but without active lifesing by the project maintainers ill see no future -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mark Rogers Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2008 12:12 An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? Marcin M. Jessa wrote: > Sure, the idea was to try to make the life easier for people who need > prepackaged software. > I am not saying Linux is better or worse, I am just saying I experienced > it's easier to get package updates upstream on BSDs. This may be part of a way forward. I understand that the Gentoo packages are pretty up to date and well maintained, and it sounds like the same is true on the BSD side? What would be needed for one of those to be used as the base for general releases? Dspam probably doesn't need any active development as much as it needs active maintenance, and that already exists elsewhere. We just need to take advantage of it in a way which doesn't cause those maintainers a headache. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f71596150928416651898!
AW: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
> Sure, the idea was to try to make the life easier for people who need prepackaged software. I am not saying Linux is better or worse, I am just saying I experienced it's easier to get package updates upstream on BSDs. Cheers, Marcin -- Please forget this thing. It doenst matter. Nothing todo with dspams future and just poisoning the thread. Please stay at the topic. In maillingslists its hard enough to follow !DSPAM:1011,48f713aa150921209941463!
Re: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Marcin M. Jessa wrote: Sure, the idea was to try to make the life easier for people who need prepackaged software. I am not saying Linux is better or worse, I am just saying I experienced it's easier to get package updates upstream on BSDs. This may be part of a way forward. I understand that the Gentoo packages are pretty up to date and well maintained, and it sounds like the same is true on the BSD side? What would be needed for one of those to be used as the base for general releases? Dspam probably doesn't need any active development as much as it needs active maintenance, and that already exists elsewhere. We just need to take advantage of it in a way which doesn't cause those maintainers a headache. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f7136b150921250714375!
Re: AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: Marcin M. Jessa Distros here, distros there... There's so much mess with Linux I am surprised anyone still touches it. .. Cheers Marcin --- Please no BSD vs Linux vs Windows vs Nextstep vs dos vs os/2 s novell netware war :-) Its not the question about on which base someone wanna use dspam. The question is about the future of dspam. So don't let us drift in a operation system discussion (these kind of discussions have never a winner cause theres always a "it depends ..." So lets forget about these things for a moment and focus on the future and concret steps we can do Sure, the idea was to try to make the life easier for people who need prepackaged software. I am not saying Linux is better or worse, I am just saying I experienced it's easier to get package updates upstream on BSDs. Cheers, Marcin !DSPAM:1011,48f70fe4150921205016703!
AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Marcin M. Jessa Distros here, distros there... There's so much mess with Linux I am surprised anyone still touches it. .. Cheers Marcin --- Please no BSD vs Linux vs Windows vs Nextstep vs dos vs os/2 s novell netware war :-) Its not the question about on which base someone wanna use dspam. The question is about the future of dspam. So don't let us drift in a operation system discussion (these kind of discussions have never a winner cause theres always a "it depends ..." So lets forget about these things for a moment and focus on the future and concret steps we can do !DSPAM:1011,48f70b13150921660690219!
AW: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Youre right. It is Important. But bevore you can release anything we need a Base on which the core team (or maybe new developers) can do their work. Its also useless a fine release without users. So bevore you can make a new release we need some basics where we can harvest all bugs and issues and make a roadmap on that. We also need the basics to communicate the roadmap, a base to support the new release - on maillinglist only its not a good way. Don't understand me wrong I like that more personally but globally for the goals of this project its not productive. We also need a big lifesign, from the core team and from the community and people willig to help. But at the Moment I cant see a real lifesign by any developers. Maybe im wrong (sorry I don't know their names or how many they are really :-) See it from the other side. Lets say youre mail is successfully and theres coming a bugfixed patched release. Ok. Only a few people will recognize it simply because manypeople still thinking the project isn't alive anymore. The new people will suffer with the install because the documentation is very old and primary suggest bigger multiserver installs. And ife were real lucky and there comming many people back to dspam what about the support? They flood the list So we need basics every bigger project has (bugtracker, forum, better webbrowseable structed documentations and all the other project communication and resource stuff). On this base a new release will be able to grow in a good way and will have much better response and is special for new users more useable. But anyway doesn't matter which thing comes first (basics or release) we need a lifesign by core and website owner. Ok some people here could start their own supporting websites for dspam but that's useless wasting time ... So we need an answer by the project owners and the core delevopers that we should do something, what we should do and how we should do to help And they have to tell us what they will do for us :-) Only by this way the dspam community and the owners can support each other. Each other separated way is unproductive and the result of such an way we can see now. Old documentation. Old buggy release, buggy svn, non dev maillinglist (or is there any?) scared users and the most users (me too) really don't know whats going on and just desperate hopeing for a better future :-) Mark Rogers: The whole issue of releases is a major problem with dspam. It shouldn't be expected that.. !DSPAM:1011,48f7087f150921224325476!
Re: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Mark Rogers wrote: Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: Another problem is we still don't know really which problems still exist which not.. theres no overview about the user problems and wishes, no one about 3rd party addons and tools.. The whole issue of releases is a major problem with dspam. It shouldn't be expected that everyone installs from CVS. Distro packages are important, for example - a lot of people are still using 3.6.8 from the Debian repositories. As I understand it the released 3.8.0 isn't great, it needs patching, and the likelihood of getting a major distro to create packages from a CVS snapshot is minimal, with the exception of Gentoo. Distro packages are important, as they provide a mechanism for bug fixes and security updates to be distributed to users who simply will not monitor the mailing lists and download and install individual patches as they come out. (I am one of those people, I use 3.6.8 from Ubuntu's repos.) Distros here, distros there... There's so much mess with Linux I am surprised anyone still touches it. I gave BSDs a shot and discovered there is much more freedom and flexibility within their organizations. You can try FreeBSD or NetBSD and send patches to the ports or pkgsrc (packgaging systems) people . They are always welcome and normally get quickly included (it they're not junk). NetBSD has even something called wip - a work in progress repository for pkgsrc which anyone can contribute to. There are other options if one open his eyes... I personally run dspam 3.8.0 on NetBSD and it _never_ failed on me. Cheers Marcin !DSPAM:1011,48f7050d150921285919591!
Re: AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Imposit.com - Webmaster wrote: Another problem is we still don't know really which problems still exist which not.. theres no overview about the user problems and wishes, no one about 3rd party addons and tools.. The whole issue of releases is a major problem with dspam. It shouldn't be expected that everyone installs from CVS. Distro packages are important, for example - a lot of people are still using 3.6.8 from the Debian repositories. As I understand it the released 3.8.0 isn't great, it needs patching, and the likelihood of getting a major distro to create packages from a CVS snapshot is minimal, with the exception of Gentoo. Distro packages are important, as they provide a mechanism for bug fixes and security updates to be distributed to users who simply will not monitor the mailing lists and download and install individual patches as they come out. (I am one of those people, I use 3.6.8 from Ubuntu's repos.) -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG !DSPAM:1011,48f6f962150924018516384!
AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I try to say what the Project need... But its not only a Basic system to develop when nobody is there with time. When theres better Information for the users and better and easier communication (sad but true many people have problems how to use a mailing list, or scared to register there) the community will grow. Bigger community better chance to have some developers with time to fix issues. Another problem is we still don't know really which problems still exist which not.. theres no overview about the user problems and wishes, no one about 3rd party addons and tools... So theres not only a need of bugtrackers and co,.. thers a need of wiki, forums and all that other stuff (like new documentation, ...) As I said bevore were also willing to bring something in with. (host something, setting up some parts) and finally im happy to see 2 other are also willing to do this. But we cannot do anything without response and help form the core team. Make no sense makling another sinlge 3rd party wiki and forum. We need these things as an official part of the project. My suggestion isn't the end solution, its just the first step on a long way wheres much work waiting to get done. About the production thing: its no problem using dspam in an production environment as long you don't need one of the buggy parts of it :-),.. theres no reason a problem will appear as long there no major system changes. Even then a dspam problem is unlikely cause the communication / data flow are simple standards (like pipe over socks, mailbox command,smtp,.. and so on) so for the next 5 years it should be still running. The most basic problems are mostly solveable by an good admin who knows whats going on on his system, what is chrooted and in which path, which permissions he need... But right no support isn't good for a special project like this. But here the community can and must help with the support so the core team is free to do their important thing: fixing bugs, new realeses and maybe some new major changes. Its not their job to tell someone how to configure postfix, that's what we can do or better we make a new documentation for this stuff and support this So we need now real response from the core team with an answer if our help is welcome , and when and how we can start :-) In reply to ... However, it doesn't appear that the current system is producing much progress... !DSPAM:1011,48f614d2150921185212605!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Thiago Damas wrote: I just think that DSPAM was reached a stage that it work on 99% of sites. What it needs now its a fine-tuning of some behaviours. Nope - it is Spam Assassin. :-) Sad but true. -- Best regards, Proskurin Kirill !DSPAM:1011,48f60fa0150922109112021!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I just think that DSPAM was reached a stage that it work on 99% of sites. What it needs now its a fine-tuning of some behaviours. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Scott Scriven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * mourik jan heupink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Is there a fork? > > Not that I know of. > > However, it doesn't appear that the current system is producing > much progress... 19 months since the last release, and no > mechanisms to make new releases, track issues, or manage > contributions. Over the past ~5 years I've seen issues get > reported over and over and never get fixed, improvements > contributed but never included, and common use cases pretty much > ignored. Something isn't working here. > > If people are interested, I could set up the basic infrastructure > to help development move forward. It's pretty easy to do; the > hardest part is migrating the cvs history, and that's not really > difficult. Creating development policies is a bigger issue, like > how releases get created and how patches are reviewed/approved, > but I can at least make suggestions. > > Basically what I have in mind is launchpad for infrastructure, > and a "community-agile" approach for development. > >https://launchpad.net/+tour/index >http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/papers/community-agile/community-agile.html > > There are a lot of details, but some of the big things would be: > > - Feature branch-driven development, using a modern DVCS tool. > - Code reviews before merging. > - Bug tracking and blueprint tracking. > - Searchable, dynamic FAQ for user support. > - Automated testing wherever possible. > - Regularly-scheduled releases. > > I think all of these would help, but all I can provide is > infrastructure and suggestions. I don't have time to be actively > involved in the development, other than occasional drive-by > patches or reviews. The really important roles would belong to > other people. > >> Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and ... >> It looks completely abandoned... > > I certainly haven't seen a better spam solution. DSPAM seems to > be the best and it's sad that it hasn't been active lately. > > > So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain > DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but > if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. > Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, > though development skills would be helpful too. > > > -- Scott > > > > > !DSPAM:1011,48f60c4b150921464334662!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Scott Scriven wrote: It's very possible I don't have the whole picture about DSPAM. I just know it's a good program and people have complained for a long time about its development mechanisms, so I suggested some options. I hope someone will help you.I not developer at all. I like dspam but I will not install it on our production mail server - just because if something happend - no one help. -- Best regards, Proskurin Kirill !DSPAM:1011,48f60b6d150929981154736!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:42:12AM -0600, Scott Scriven wrote: > So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain > DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but > if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. > Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, > though development skills would be helpful too. Unfortunately we do not have the time to work on the software itself, but if we can help by hosting something or being a mirror, let me know. Marcel -- Marcel Knol iunxi B.V. email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: +31 88 5400500 direct: +31 88 5400510 fax: +31 88 5400501 mobile: +31 6 10750878 http://www.iunxi.nl !DSPAM:1011,48f60b07150921664163747!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
* Josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ORLY? I need a little more context than that. I have no idea what part(s) of my message you're replying to. It's very possible I don't have the whole picture about DSPAM. I just know it's a good program and people have complained for a long time about its development mechanisms, so I suggested some options. -- Scott !DSPAM:1011,48f60a5d150921777230245!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
* mourik jan heupink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a fork? Not that I know of. However, it doesn't appear that the current system is producing much progress... 19 months since the last release, and no mechanisms to make new releases, track issues, or manage contributions. Over the past ~5 years I've seen issues get reported over and over and never get fixed, improvements contributed but never included, and common use cases pretty much ignored. Something isn't working here. If people are interested, I could set up the basic infrastructure to help development move forward. It's pretty easy to do; the hardest part is migrating the cvs history, and that's not really difficult. Creating development policies is a bigger issue, like how releases get created and how patches are reviewed/approved, but I can at least make suggestions. Basically what I have in mind is launchpad for infrastructure, and a "community-agile" approach for development. https://launchpad.net/+tour/index http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/papers/community-agile/community-agile.html There are a lot of details, but some of the big things would be: - Feature branch-driven development, using a modern DVCS tool. - Code reviews before merging. - Bug tracking and blueprint tracking. - Searchable, dynamic FAQ for user support. - Automated testing wherever possible. - Regularly-scheduled releases. I think all of these would help, but all I can provide is infrastructure and suggestions. I don't have time to be actively involved in the development, other than occasional drive-by patches or reviews. The really important roles would belong to other people. > Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and ... > It looks completely abandoned... I certainly haven't seen a better spam solution. DSPAM seems to be the best and it's sad that it hasn't been active lately. So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, though development skills would be helpful too. -- Scott !DSPAM:1011,48f60149150928571811094!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
ORLY? On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 08:42 -0600, Scott Scriven wrote: > * mourik jan heupink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Is there a fork? > > Not that I know of. > > However, it doesn't appear that the current system is producing > much progress... 19 months since the last release, and no > mechanisms to make new releases, track issues, or manage > contributions. Over the past ~5 years I've seen issues get > reported over and over and never get fixed, improvements > contributed but never included, and common use cases pretty much > ignored. Something isn't working here. > > If people are interested, I could set up the basic infrastructure > to help development move forward. It's pretty easy to do; the > hardest part is migrating the cvs history, and that's not really > difficult. Creating development policies is a bigger issue, like > how releases get created and how patches are reviewed/approved, > but I can at least make suggestions. > > Basically what I have in mind is launchpad for infrastructure, > and a "community-agile" approach for development. > > https://launchpad.net/+tour/index > http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/papers/community-agile/community-agile.html > > There are a lot of details, but some of the big things would be: > > - Feature branch-driven development, using a modern DVCS tool. > - Code reviews before merging. > - Bug tracking and blueprint tracking. > - Searchable, dynamic FAQ for user support. > - Automated testing wherever possible. > - Regularly-scheduled releases. > > I think all of these would help, but all I can provide is > infrastructure and suggestions. I don't have time to be actively > involved in the development, other than occasional drive-by > patches or reviews. The really important roles would belong to > other people. > > > Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and ... > > It looks completely abandoned... > > I certainly haven't seen a better spam solution. DSPAM seems to > be the best and it's sad that it hasn't been active lately. > > > So, the big question is whether anyone is willing to maintain > DSPAM. It seems as if Jonathan Zdziarski has lost interest, but > if no one else is willing to take over, nothing will get done. > Any volunteers? The main requirements are time and enthusiasm, > though development skills would be helpful too. > > > -- Scott > > > > > !DSPAM:1011,48f6030e150921262212464!
AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
I Agree partitial. Release Policy is not that easy, but there must be a transparent one. And we need new Relases and Bugfixes. I understand, ist a lot of work behind that Project no question about. Some things are great, some not that big :-) Also lack of Documentation might be a reason why many uses dont wanna set up Dspam. Many oft them Struggle with the Documentation and some (me too) are a bit scared because ist not updated and nobody outside the mailling list is able to determine if this project is still running or not. So what we need (fromm y Point of View, maybe wrong one). 1. A Lifesign from the Core Team with an Release Policy (doesnt matter which Kind but anything we can deal with) 2. Actual Documentation, better Structured, and some proofed HowTos (min one for each installation method) and a guide Which kind of installation method would be recommended in relation to the size of the setup and the OS of the "customer = newusers" :-) 3. Better Communication System, Im sorry but a hardly Searchable, non cathegorized Maillinglist is nice fort he good old days (the one without spam, anyone remeber?) but we need something more structured. 4. maybe bugtracking system too but it would be also ok in a forum,.. everything is better than distribute it by an mailling list lol I guess many Questions, and many Time for everyone will be saved with that. 6. Developers Documentation so ist easier to make 3rd Party tools like an php interface or some major additonal ideas / plugins whatever ... 7. then we can talk about a new all in one bugfix release (because without point 1 to 6 ist nearly worthless) So ist easy to say what we need and want, but its a lot additional work. I dont think the core Team should do it. This should be a community work. So ill offer my Help and ask everyone to do the same. (Beside my horrible bad english i could restructure the documentation and things like that). Its also a thing of Motivation. Ive also driven some non commercal projects, but ist really hard to do your job for years and all you hear is help me please,.. do that please, we wanna have please (please in best case often they say hey what you did is bullshit do it better lol) So i hope community help is welcome (beside money i dont have *g*) and will help to remotived and show how really needed and important this project is. In Fact there is no real Filter/Quarantine System with Central Userwebfrontend out there. Ok some wired solutions on spamassing but nothing real great,.. ok there some things like maja and co but without this crappy cpanel spamassisn has no real useable webfrontend. So i thing the only reasy why these project has a much bigger community ist he hard access to dspam and bad communication. And i really belive with soem small bugfixes, some hard community driven communication and documentation, and finally some major new conceps in some ways dspam has still the abillity to get a major opensource project. A real major. Antispam/virus solution is nearly important like web and emailservers itself. And there is no real good alternative So i reall ybelive in the project but i also belive ist possible it will die sooner or later without support from us the users Best regards Rm PS: im sorry form y real bad english i hope most of you understand what im trying to say. If not just ask me ill try then to decrypt my english lol... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --On Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:45 PM -0600 Jeff Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Are you ever going to release a new version, or are we supposed to keep >> building from CVS? That doesn't work very well for ports and package >> maintainers. !DSPAM:1011,48ee8a8e150921355120917!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --On Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:45 PM -0600 Jeff Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Are you ever going to release a new version, or are we supposed to keep >> building from CVS? That doesn't work very well for ports and package >> maintainers. > > Yeah, the release policy seems non-existent. It'd be nice to actually *see* > a release with the various fixes that have been submitted in the past few > years. Given that this issue comes up every few months with no forward > momentum though, I'm not holding my breath on it. I'm going to third the sentiment. I would rather see multiple releases made even with just a few bugfixes in each, than wait ages for a large number of fixes to make it. Aiming for a release every month or two if there are changes and bugfixes worth releasing seems like a fairly good schedule, or sooner if any particularly critical bugs have crept in or neat features have gotten in. Before reach release, release a release candidate as well for people to download and try to catch any last minute bugs or regressions as well. Let that simmer for a week before making a final release. So the release process would go like this: 1. Either determine that it's about time for a release (either calendar time, or number of bug-fixes/enhancements). 2. Roll up a release candidate and announce it to the -users and -dev list for final testing. Hold off any changes except for bugfixes to the source repo. 3. If no major bugs found after a week, push out a new release. 4. Wash, rinse, repeat. -Dave !DSPAM:1011,48ee7e07150921224659169!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
--On Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:45 PM -0600 Jeff Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Are you ever going to release a new version, or are we supposed to keep building from CVS? That doesn't work very well for ports and package maintainers. Yeah, the release policy seems non-existent. It'd be nice to actually *see* a release with the various fixes that have been submitted in the past few years. Given that this issue comes up every few months with no forward momentum though, I'm not holding my breath on it. --Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Principal Software Engineer Zimbra, Inc Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration !DSPAM:1011,48ee6296150924048310515!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Mick Johnson wrote:
Hey all,
Nope, not dead, although haven’t seen so many submissions come through
recently.
Cheers
mick
Hi all,
Is there a fork? I didn't know that. It would explain the (relative)
silence here. Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and there is
so little traffic on this list. I have been wondering for ages WHY that
is. It looks completely abandoned...
We're supposed to send patches to the list?
Here's a patch to the postgresql driver that combines the patch from the
OpenBSD port and a little patch of mine to fix the following:
2008-09-22 12:32:41.851734500 WARNING: nonstandard use of
\\ in a string literal at character 135
2008-09-22 12:32:41.851745500 HINT: Use the escape string
syntax for backslashes, e.g., E'\\'.
2008-09-22 12:32:41.851755500 STATEMENT: INSERT INTO
dspam_signature_data (uid, signature, length,
created_on, data) VALUES (1, '48d7e4e0130171342116753', 1776,
CURRENT_DATE, '\\235&\\
Are you ever going to release a new version, or are we supposed to keep
building from CVS? That doesn't work very well for ports and package
maintainers.
Hope this gets applied!
Jeff Ross
!DSPAM:1011,48ee5f65150921202317127!
--- pgsql_drv.c.origTue May 6 12:25:44 2008
+++ pgsql_drv.c Thu Oct 9 13:36:52 2008
@@ -1147,7 +1147,7 @@
p = _pgsql_drv_getpwuid (CTX, uid);
if (!p) {
- LOG(LOG_CRIT, "_ds_get_signature(): _mysql_drv_getpwuid(%d) failed:
aborting", uid);
+ LOG(LOG_CRIT, "_ds_get_signature(): _pgsql_drv_getpwuid(%d) failed:
aborting", uid);
return EFAILURE;
}
username = strdup(p->pw_name);
@@ -1242,7 +1242,7 @@
mem = PQescapeBytea(SIG->data, SIG->length, &length);
snprintf (scratch, sizeof (scratch),
-"INSERT INTO dspam_signature_data (uid, signature, length,
created_on, data) VALUES (%d, '%s', %ld, CURRENT_DATE, '",
+"INSERT INTO dspam_signature_data (uid, signature, length,
created_on, data) VALUES (%d, '%s', %ld, CURRENT_DATE, E'",
(int)p->pw_uid, signature, SIG->length);
buffer_cat (query, scratch);
buffer_cat (query, (const char *) mem);
@@ -1406,7 +1406,7 @@
virtual_username,
virtual_table);
#else
-strcpy (query, "DECLARE dscursor CURSOR FOR SELECT DISTINCT uid FROM
dspam_stats");
+strlcpy (query, "DECLARE dscursor CURSOR FOR SELECT DISTINCT uid FROM
dspam_stats", sizeof (query));
#endif
result = PQexec(s->dbh, query);
!DSPAM:1011,48ee5f65150921202317127!
RE: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hey all, Nope, not dead, although haven’t seen so many submissions come through recently. Cheers mick Hi all, Is there a fork? I didn't know that. It would explain the (relative) silence here. Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and there is so little traffic on this list. I have been wondering for ages WHY that is. It looks completely abandoned... !DSPAM:1011,48ee4cdd150924732829907!
AW: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Omg, what ive started and why i was the first one ? *g* Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von mourik jan heupink Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. Oktober 2008 12:57 An: dspam-users@lists.nuclearelephant.com Betreff: Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active? Hi all, Is there a fork? I didn't know that. It would explain the (relative) silence here. Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and there is so little traffic on this list. I have been wondering for ages WHY that is. It looks completely abandoned... !DSPAM:1011,48ede746150928832515288!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hi all, Is there a fork? I didn't know that. It would explain the (relative) silence here. Dspam is such a terrific piece of software, and there is so little traffic on this list. I have been wondering for ages WHY that is. It looks completely abandoned... !DSPAM:1011,48ede37c150929956432518!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Proskurin Kirill wrote: Julien Valroff wrote: Le mercredi 08 octobre 2008 à 18:06 +0200, Imposit.com - Webmaster a écrit : Hello everyone, Doest anyone know more about the Dpsam Project Status? Is it active? Just Paused or in reality Dead? Interested as well as the Interested too. How all this story with fork ends? The cutlery is being prepared. !DSPAM:1011,48edc2a1150921183247649!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Julien Valroff wrote: Le mercredi 08 octobre 2008 à 18:06 +0200, Imposit.com - Webmaster a écrit : Hello everyone, Doest anyone know more about the Dpsam Project Status? Is it active? Just Paused or in reality Dead? Interested as well as the Interested too. How all this story with fork ends? -- Best regards, Proskurin Kirill !DSPAM:1011,48edb6fc150921489557813!
Re: [dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Le mercredi 08 octobre 2008 à 18:06 +0200, Imposit.com - Webmaster a écrit : > Hello everyone, > > > > Doest anyone know more about the Dpsam Project Status? > > Is it active? Just Paused or in reality Dead? Interested as well as the -dev mailing list seems down for a while now... I have tried to subscribe again without success Cheers, Julien > !DSPAM:1011,48ecdcc5150926313438579!
[dspam-users] Dspam Project still active?
Hello everyone, Doest anyone know more about the Dpsam Project Status? Is it active? Just Paused or in reality Dead? !DSPAM:1011,48ecda7a150921088141009!
