ENGLISH, STILL OFF TOPIC!
The website recommended I think by Jacob earlier at www.effingpot.com is excellent. I had no idea there were so many peculiar 'Bringlish' words and phrases, and I'm speaking as a Brit. Recommended reading for all, very entertaining and good for Anglo-American relations! Ed, thanks for the Amphibicar pic. Working on it must be a real relief after MIL this and ANSI that!. Best Regards Ted Rook, Console Engineering, ext 4659 Please note our new location and phone numbers: Crest Audio Inc, 16-00 Pollitt Drive Fair Lawn, NJ 07410 USA 201 475 4600 telephone receptionist, 8.30 - 5 pm EST. 201 475 4659 direct line w/voice mail, 24 hrs. 201 475 4677 fax, 24 hrs. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Recent Virus Attack Info
For those of you who received the e-card a few days ago on this network, a news article has been posted on MSNBC that explains the problem. If you are interested here is the link. http://www.msnbc.com/news/826033.asp?0na=x22149Z1- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Layered Reinforced Insulation
Richard - Which edition are you referring to? 2.2.1 in EN60950-1 and EN60950, 3rd ed., addresses general requirements for SELV circuits. In these standards, there is also no 2.9.4.anything. I'll assume for now that it's 2nd ed., through the 4th amendment. 2.9.4.2 refers to thin sheet material and accepting thin sheet material as a valid construction method for Reinforced Insulation, it must be physically protected; hence internal to a mechanical enclosure. This was written into the standard to allow common transformer constructions to meet Reinforced insulation requirements and other 2.9.4.1 states Reinforced Insulation can be 0.4 mm, and is not precluded from being outside the enclosure, *if* it's not subject to mechanical stresses that can deform the insulation at normal operating temperatures (it implies it *can* deform under abnormal operating conditions that lead to abnormal temperatures). [Be sure to pay attention to the Note.] What you've described seems more like a combination of Basic Insulation (the inner, single conductor insulation) and Supplementary Insulation (the jacket). If the cable is outside the enclosure, it should be jacketed for mechanical protection. Jacketed cables offer many thicknesses of jacket such that you could readily find one that has a 0.4 mm thickness (16 mils). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: richwo...@tycoint.com Consider the insulation construction for an external interconecting cable connected to secondary hazardous circuits of ITE (EN60950). Is it permissible for the reinforced insulation to be constructed of two layers (e.g., conductor insulation plus external jacket) if the total thickness is at least 0.4 mm? Clause 2.2.1 appears to allow it; however, clause 2.9.4.2 appears to indicate that layered insulation can only be used internally. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
We'll have to make you an honorary Canuck Peter.don't forget ...it's pronounced Zed not Zee. Cheers and regards, Kaz -Original Message- From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:33 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ? They've been listening to too much Max Webster, Eh. I think they need a little Moosehead and a beaver tail. Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com What's that all aboot? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: definitions?
-Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:35 PM To: 'Jacob Schanker'; Bill Flanigan; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: definitions? Or we could simply do as a friend of mine does and refer to dB(dollar). What's that 10 meter chamber cost? About 126 dB(dollar). ;) Ghery But I always thought that money was power. Maybe you meant 63 dB$. Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Layered Reinforced Insulation
Bill - This is not quite correct. Reinforced Insulation may also be a single piece of insulation (I do note you used may). There's no definition, per se, of multiple layers, except for the case of thin sheet material. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Bill Bisenius A reinforced insulation system by definition may be multiple layers if it is all the same insulating material. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
They've been listening to too much Max Webster, Eh. I think they need a little Moosehead and a beaver tail. Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com What's that all aboot? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: definitions?
I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote (in 0h4j00egvta...@mtaout03.icomcast.net) about 'definitions?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Excellent point. Don't the Brits refer to 1,000,000,000 as a milliard, or is that continental usage only? Continental. Forget the old 'Imperial' billion; it's not compatible with metric prefixes and should be allowed to fade away. If in doubt, write 10^9. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: 60601-1-2
I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmgeidceaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about '60601-1-2' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: No it has not been harmonised yet. Being an EN, it is, ipso facto, harmonized in all the EU countries. It has not been **notified** yet. The Commission seems to have tried to hi-jack the term 'harmonized' from the standards world, where it means that it is accepted by every member of a group (which may even be all the members of IEC or ISO!), and restrict it to the ENs that the Commission likes. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
GOST Certification
For a manufacturer located in the USA, and for equipment that has certifications from UL and TUV Rheinland, what is the recommended method (i.e., least time, effort and money) to obtain GOST certification? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: IECEE Decision 1D107
I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com wrote (in nebbkemlgllmjofmopleoengeaaa.peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com) about 'IECEE Decision 1D107' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Please keep in mind this is not a secret requirement for a product's construction or testing, as this would violate the operational premise of the CB Scheme. I realise that. No additional testing required, It seems to me that additional (or repeated) testing IS likely to be required if two entirely separate reports are to be generated. no additional construction requirements applied, Indeed. just issuance of revenue generating reports and certificates. That's the worst aspect. It appears to be a simple ruse to impose double charges. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: definitions?
Or we could simply do as a friend of mine does and refer to dB(dollar). What's that 10 meter chamber cost? About 126 dB(dollar). ;) Ghery -Original Message- From: Jacob Schanker [mailto:schan...@frontiernet.net] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:02 PM To: Bill Flanigan; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: definitions? Bill is corrrect, of course, in pointing out this potential source of confusion. Perhaps it explains why the UK has a hard time matching US expenditures - they have to spend 1000 times more to match US billion for billion. Actually, I often hear Europeans use the term thousand million to mean 10^9, which avoids confusion. But there is still the matter of a Trillion, which in US parlance is 10^12. Other terms sometimes used: zillion, gazillion. How about SI for money - Megadollar, gigadollar, teradollars? Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: Bill Flanigan bflani...@ameritherm.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: definitions? These definitions could be a problem(dictionary.com) bil·lion n. 1.) The cardinal number equal to 109. 2.) Chiefly British. The cardinal number equal to 1012. 3.) An indefinitely large number. WmFlanigan --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
I heard tell of a bloke who came to visit his friend and his friend's wife on this side of the pond. On the way to the hotel from the airport, his friend said that he had to work the next day, but he should come over and go for a drive with his wife. The bloke's reply was, Okay, Sara, I'll knock you up around 10. What he meant by knock you up was knock on your door. She kept silent until she indignantly confronted her husband later in the evening after they got home. Best regards, Brian Epstein Sr Regulatory Compliance Engineer Veeco Instruments 112 Robin Hill Rd Santa Barbara CA 93117 805-967-2700 x2315 brian.epst...@veeco.com mailto:brian.epst...@veeco.com -Original Message- From: Jacob Schanker [mailto:schan...@frontiernet.net] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 5:12 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. Regards, Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org English I'm preparing this column in a hotel room in Basingstoke, Hampshire in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom, by the way is increasingly a disunited kingdom with the devolution of Scotland and Wales, and, of course, Ireland. Devolution is sort of what we did in America in 1776, but without guns. Every time I am in England, which has been a lot, I am struck by the language differences. Churchill supposedly put it as: Two great nations separated by a common language. When a colleague prepares for their first trip to the UK, I prepare them by giving them an American-English Dictionary I found on the Web (as a text file called amlish.txt, look for it, or send me an email and I will send it to you). I also give the dictionary to English colleagues when they visit the U.S. After all, confusion goes both ways. There is an excellent web site, containing upwards of a thousand translations, with humorous commentary. Check out www.effingpot.com . Mike Etherington runs the web site. He just published a book, The Best of British - The American's guide to speaking British, based on the content of the web site. I ran across it the other day and bought it. Even after all my exposure to the British language, I found myself laughing out loud at his explanations. In case you are interested, it is ISBN 0-9536968-0-4. By this time, I'm quite fluent in English, but American words often slip out, with sometimes amusing results. The funniest was the time I had forgotten my rubbers, which is a no-no given the damp and rainy climate over here. I asked someone where I could get rubbers. The stare I received set the wheels in my head turning (yes, I still have a mechanical brain). I realized that they thought I meant condoms. I should have asked for galoshes or overshoes. In fact, many of the pitfalls in language center on differences in terms of a sexual or anatomical nature, best not discussed here. Differences in the names of articles of clothing also have a potential for amusement. Walking through the Marks Spencer's department store, I found signs for Men's slips, and Men's jumpers (translation: briefs and sweater vests). If you need to hold your pants up, don't ask for suspenders. And, don't play golf in knickers. Some of our familiar engineering terms used to have English counterparts, but increasingly, the English are adopting U.S. terminology along with the rest of the World. Accumulators are now batteries, but earth is still earth, not ground, although I hear ground being used in technical conversation. I suppose vacuum tubes are still valves, but then you don't see much of them anymore. Shields used to be screens; maybe they still are, after all, a windshield is still a windscreen here. Fortunately, the English are exceedingly polite, and forgive the occasional gaffes or misunderstandings. Their constant exposure to the best and worst of American television shows has trained them in the American language to the point where many are now bilingual. Now, if I ask where I can get a Big Mac, I'll be directed to the nearest McDonalds, not to a men's clothing store carrying large size outerwear. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All
Re: definitions?
Bill is corrrect, of course, in pointing out this potential source of confusion. Perhaps it explains why the UK has a hard time matching US expenditures - they have to spend 1000 times more to match US billion for billion. Actually, I often hear Europeans use the term thousand million to mean 10^9, which avoids confusion. But there is still the matter of a Trillion, which in US parlance is 10^12. Other terms sometimes used: zillion, gazillion. How about SI for money - Megadollar, gigadollar, teradollars? Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: Bill Flanigan bflani...@ameritherm.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: definitions? These definitions could be a problem(dictionary.com) bil·lion n. 1.) The cardinal number equal to 109. 2.) Chiefly British. The cardinal number equal to 1012. 3.) An indefinitely large number. WmFlanigan --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery ghery.pet...@intel.com wrote
(in d9223eb959a5d511a98f00508b68c20c12515...@orsmsx108.jf.intel.com)
about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt
thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002:
Not to mention the lack of agreement on how to spell certain words that are
used on both sides. Color vs. colour, for example. What's with these extra
letters, anyway? Got an uncle in the ink business? ;-)
No, that was a phenomenon of the 12th to 15th centuries, when scribes
were paid by the letter. That's how we got some of those English place
names with unlikely pronunciations:
Happisburgh ('Hazebury')
Trottiscliffe ('Trosley')
There are some personal names, too, which may have been affected in the
same way.
The 'color/colour' business is partly chance, AIUI, and partly various
proposals for US spelling reform, e.g. those by Noah Webster, whose more
outré proposals didn't catch on, but simpler ones did.
When I was a small boy, the Dewey classification index, the biggest book
on display in the public library, used Dewey's proposed spellings, and a
footnote on every page said 'Topics in bold type **ar** subdivided.'
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
---
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Re: grounding schemes EMI
Hi Dave, I've had this type of discussion at a previous telco company and the only explanation I ever received regarded ground potential differences between equipment through the mains (as we have discussed in a previous thread). And I always seemed to win by saying that if everything was chassis grounded, then that would be the path of least resistance anyway. At this other company, we shifted from isolated grounds to everything grounded to the chassis and I never saw any of the problems the designers said would happen. In fact, immunity robustness increased. I'll admit that this was with a limited number of products. And I'm sure others here may have different exeperiences. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
I have heard these things referred to as a buttinski (butt-in--ski) on this side of the pond. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, Washington Juhasz, John (IndSys, GE Interlogix) john.juh...@ge.com on 10/25/2002 09:52:41 AM Please respond to Juhasz, John (IndSys, GE Interlogix) john.juh...@ge.com To: robert.s...@flextronics.com, chris.col...@tagmclaren.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Don Borowski/SEL) Subject: RE: Definition ? For those telecom folks out there, how about the word 'butt' - the British term for test-set. The first time I heard it, a colleague from the UK office was helping me with a telephone interface problem. He asked me, Did you put 48V across your butt? I said, Excuse me? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: robert.s...@flextronics.com [mailto:robert.s...@flextronics.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:59 AM To: chris.col...@tagmclaren.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Definition ? I once read a British technical manual on engines. While discussing a paraffin carburetor, it mentioned that in order to start the engine it must be strangled severely. Robert -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:21 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC List' Subject: RE: Definition ? One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution or other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
What's that all aboot? -Original Message- From: Jason Greenwood [mailto:jagre...@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 1:01 PM To: douglas_beckw...@mitel.com; John Woodgate Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? even better Nice toque, Eh? -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of douglas_beckw...@mitel.com Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:53 AM To: John Woodgate Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? Eh? John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk@majordomo.ieee.org on 10/25/2002 11:01:45 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? I read in !emc-pstc that Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote (in 001301c27c1f$b550d880$6401a8c0@net1) about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. It's 'British English', not 'English English'. Professional translators recognise them as two closely allied but distinct language variants, as are Australian and South African English. It is important to translate from, say, German, into the right one for the client. US barbecue, British barbecue, Aus barbie, SA braai, for example. I am not a professional translator, but I work in technical writing and standards writing with people from both sides of the Pond, so I tend to be able to switch from one to the other. Many of my US colleagues can also do that. We NEVER know which terms to use when addressing Canadians, and one Canadian colleague confirmed that each Canadian citizen picks his or her own selection from the two variants. (;-) There are also a few Canadian English words. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To
Re: definitions?
Milliard (F/Nrw/Dan.) or miljard (Sw.) stands for Billion. --- Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: Excellent point. Don't the Brits refer to 1,000,000,000 as a milliard, or is that continental usage only? -- = Best Regards Hans Mellberg Regulatory Compliance EMC Design Services Consultant By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755 __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?
Eh? John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk@majordomo.ieee.org on 10/25/2002 11:01:45 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? I read in !emc-pstc that Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote (in 001301c27c1f$b550d880$6401a8c0@net1) about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. It's 'British English', not 'English English'. Professional translators recognise them as two closely allied but distinct language variants, as are Australian and South African English. It is important to translate from, say, German, into the right one for the client. US barbecue, British barbecue, Aus barbie, SA braai, for example. I am not a professional translator, but I work in technical writing and standards writing with people from both sides of the Pond, so I tend to be able to switch from one to the other. Many of my US colleagues can also do that. We NEVER know which terms to use when addressing Canadians, and one Canadian colleague confirmed that each Canadian citizen picks his or her own selection from the two variants. (;-) There are also a few Canadian English words. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: IECEE Decision 1D107
John - Please keep in mind this is not a secret requirement for a product's construction or testing, as this would violate the operational premise of the CB Scheme. No additional testing required, no additional construction requirements applied, just issuance of revenue generating reports and certificates. This must be brought under control. Thank you for your support, John. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 If what you have been told is true, it ought not to be. How can manufacturers be expected to make products that conform to standards if there is secret documentation that effectively changes the meanings and implications of those standards? I will raise this matter with a relevant British Standards committee. -- Regards, John Woodgate --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: definitions?
Excellent point. Don't the Brits refer to 1,000,000,000 as a milliard, or is that continental usage only? -- From: Bill Flanigan bflani...@ameritherm.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: definitions? Date: Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 11:48 AM These definitions could be a problem(dictionary.com) bil·lion n. 1.) The cardinal number equal to 109. 2.) Chiefly British. The cardinal number equal to 1012. 3.) An indefinitely large number. WmFlanigan --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ? Brit response from USA.
Ted, I think that what you meant to say was Strangler than Diction! G - VA -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Rook Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:15 AM To: Subject: Re: Definition ? Brit response from USA. Agree, in another lifetime of car tinkering never heard of a strangler under the bonnet !. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
For those telecom folks out there, how about the word 'butt' - the British term for test-set. The first time I heard it, a colleague from the UK office was helping me with a telephone interface problem. He asked me, Did you put 48V across your butt? I said, Excuse me? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: robert.s...@flextronics.com [mailto:robert.s...@flextronics.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:59 AM To: chris.col...@tagmclaren.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Definition ? I once read a British technical manual on engines. While discussing a paraffin carburetor, it mentioned that in order to start the engine it must be strangled severely. Robert -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:21 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC List' Subject:RE: Definition ? One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. Important Note: Any typographical, clerical or other error in this communication is subject to correction without any liability on the part of TAG McLaren Audio Limited. Any orders placed shall be subject to acceptance by TAG McLaren Audio Limited on its standard terms and conditions of sale which shall govern the contract for the sale and purchase of the products ordered to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim
RE: Layered Reinforced Insulation
A reinforced insulation system by definition may be multiple layers if it is all the same insulating material. Two different insulating materials must be evaluated as double insulation = one of the materials must meet the requirements for basic insulation, the other material must meet the requirements for supplementary insulation. Regardless, both supplementary and reinforced insulation are required to be min. 0.4 mm thick (clause 2.10.5.1) There is an exception to the 0.4 mm thickness requirement if multiple layers - of the same insulating material (clause 2.10.5.2). The exception has additional dielectric testing requirements that depend on the number of layers used. You don't provide any details on the hazardous circuit in the interconnecting cable. If it can be defined as ELV, you will only need to evaluate one of the insulating materials as supplementary insulation. Still doesn't get you past the 0.4 mm requirement. Note - I have found many wire insulations that will meet the 0.4 mm requirement and comply with the reinforced insulation requirements. Best regards, Bill Bisenius bi...@productsafet.com EDD www.productsafeT.com -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of richwo...@tycoint.com Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:24 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Layered Reinforced Insulation Consider the insulation construction for an external interconecting cable connected to secondary hazardous circuits of ITE (EN60950). Is it permissible for the reinforced insulation to be constructed of two layers (e.g., conductor insulation plus external jacket) if the total thickness is at least 0.4 mm? Clause 2.2.1 appears to allow it; however, clause 2.9.4.2 appears to indicate that layered insulation can only be used internally. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: definitions?
These definitions could be a problem(dictionary.com) bil·lion n. 1.) The cardinal number equal to 109. 2.) Chiefly British. The cardinal number equal to 1012. 3.) An indefinitely large number. WmFlanigan --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: 60601-1-2
Hello Bob, Point to : http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/reflist/meddevic.html Regards, Véronique rehel...@mmm.com wrote: Has the version EN 60601-1-2 : 2002 been published in the OJ yet? Or is the 1993 version still the latest? Can someone point me to the web for the latest harmonized standards list to the Medical Device Directive? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- Ir. Véronique Beauvois Université de Liège Département d'Electricité, Electronique et Informatique Service d'Electricité Appliquée (Prof. W. Legros) Institut Montefiore B28 4000 LIEGE - BELGIQUE Tél: +32-4-3663746 GSM: 0477/87.12.80 Fax: +32-4-3662910 http://elap.montefiore.ulg.ac.be --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: 60601-1-2
Hi Bob, The required list you can find on : http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/re flist/meddevic.html No it has not been harmonised yet. Gert Gremmen ce-test,qualified testing -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of rehel...@mmm.com Sent: vrijdag 25 oktober 2002 16:03 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: 60601-1-2 Has the version EN 60601-1-2 : 2002 been published in the OJ yet? Or is the 1993 version still the latest? Can someone point me to the web for the latest harmonized standards list to the Medical Device Directive? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with curre nt thread Re: Definition ?
Not to mention the lack of agreement on how to spell certain words that are used on both sides. Color vs. colour, for example. What's with these extra letters, anyway? Got an uncle in the ink business? ;-) -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:02 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? I read in !emc-pstc that Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote (in 001301c27c1f$b550d880$6401a8c0@net1) about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. It's 'British English', not 'English English'. Professional translators recognise them as two closely allied but distinct language variants, as are Australian and South African English. It is important to translate from, say, German, into the right one for the client. US barbecue, British barbecue, Aus barbie, SA braai, for example. I am not a professional translator, but I work in technical writing and standards writing with people from both sides of the Pond, so I tend to be able to switch from one to the other. Many of my US colleagues can also do that. We NEVER know which terms to use when addressing Canadians, and one Canadian colleague confirmed that each Canadian citizen picks his or her own selection from the two variants. (;-) There are also a few Canadian English words. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
And keep the blue side up in normal operations! -Original Message- From: jestuckey [mailto:jestuc...@micron.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:04 AM To: 'Chris Maxwell'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: RE: Definition ? And above the undercarriage of the kite.. as long as one is not inverted, but when you settle the pipper center the ball, check the deflection and have a go at the bloce. -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:42 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Definition ? The windscreen? Isn't that right behind the bonnet? Chris -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:48 AM To: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Definition ? Screen is the Queen's English for what Americans call shield. As in Brit usage windscreen for American windshield. -- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Definition ? Date: Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 8:15 AM Hi all, Could anyone explain the definition of a screened cable as it is applied in EN61000-4-6 (and perhaps elsewhere) Thank-you in advance Regards, Lisa --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute:
Re: Baffled by EFT test results (EN61000-4-4)
I investigated the phenomenon of capacitor damage by transients and found caps to be very resistant to damage from short duration, especially high source impedance (50 Ohm) spikes. There is a complete write up entitled, Investigation Into the Effects of Microsecond Power Line Transients on Line-Connected Capacitors NASA/CR-2000-209906 at: http://see.msfc.nasa.gov/ As I write this, I cannot access the site and get you the precise page it is on, but it is usually accessible to the public (a pdf download). I also have the original in MS Word that I can send if necessary. -- From: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com To: 'EMC-PSTC List' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Baffled by EFT test results (EN61000-4-4) Date: Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 6:55 AM Hi Group, So I went ahead and built a test PCB with my inductors and ferrites in PI filter formation with capacitors - just like I threatened to do a few months ago ( e-mail subject header Designing for low power radiated and conducted immunity describing a small 3-wire low power DC pressure sensor). The analog circuit simulating a pressure sensor is simply a 5V regulator (LP2985) supplying a AD623 IN-amp monitoring the differential voltage across a wheatstone bridge (4k7) connected to the same 5V rail. The output then simply connects to an Avometer (through a PI filter of course). A variant of the test PCB doesn't even have the regulator. It is that simple. I took the PCB through radiated immunity testing to EN 61000-4-3 and met 100V/m, and through conducted immunity testing to EN 61000-4-6 and met the 10V level. All tests were done with unscreened cable. I also proved the protected circuit was susceptible when the filter was removed. Having decided I had sized my inductors, ferrites and caps appropriately, and done the PCB layout correctly, I then proceeded to add small SMT varistors for transients to EN 61000-4-4. The test PCB was again good for 2kV. I then shuffled the relative positions of the varistors in the circuit (initially pre- PI filter, then post PI filter ) and it didn't seem to make any difference. The idea was to get some permutations of varistor location and then repeat the RF immunity tests in case the varistors introduced susceptibility (an observation I have made in the past). I then took the varistors off the board altogether and still the PCB meets the 2kV stress levels ( I am using the levels of EN 61000-6-2 ). I am not too keen to raise the stakes to 4kV just now because there are more tests I would like to perform on the PCB before I let it go up in smoke. This is probably the first time I have seen anything get through transients testing without any explicit measures to mitigate against failure. Has anyone experienced this? Is there an explanation for this? I have always used varistors almost as a matter of course, so you can understand my surprise. Could it be I have over-designed my RF filter to the point it is good enough for the EFTs as well? The caps are only rated for 50V though ( the clamping voltages of the varistors). Could it be the caps are in fact rated for such transients although this may not be stated explicitly? Should I prolong the exposure of the varistor-free circuit at 2kV to see if I am dealing with delayed failure potentially? I have been setting my burst duration to 1 minute. Any pointers? Regards - Chris Chileshe - Ultronics Ltd This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list
Re: Definition ? Brit response from USA.
Agree, in another lifetime of car tinkering never heard of a strangler under the bonnet !. John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk 25-Oct-02 9:01:29 AM I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01425AAD@CAT) about 'Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle No, that's worked by the accelerator (gas) pedal. maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) I've seen the term 'strangler' used for 'choke' but it was in a specific context (I thought it was motorcycle carburettors (carburators), but now I suppose not) and it is certainly not the normal term. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: IECEE Decision 1D107
I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com wrote (in nebbkemlgllmjofmoplecemneaaa.peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com) about 'IECEE Decision 1D107' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: I have just been advised by an NCB that I can not obtain a single CB Scheme Certificate and Test Report for a product that has both ac and dc electrical ratings. This is supposedly based on IECEE Decision 1D107. I asked for a copy of this document and was advised that a copy could not be provided, because IECEE Decisions are, for NCBs only. Can anyone out there provide me with a copy? These kinds of decisions are likely found on the IECEE and CB Scheme web sites, but are password protected for members only. It is my view that I need to study this document to see just how far reaching the implications are and to properly advise my customers of its impact on them. This decision will affect all products with optional dc-dc converters for use as backup/redundant power supplies and products that swap out ac-dc for dc-dc converters in the factory. It may apply to other scenarios. While I have not been hit with the full force of this yet, I expect to be in the not too distant future. So will many of you. If what you have been told is true, it ought not to be. How can manufacturers be expected to make products that conform to standards if there is secret documentation that effectively changes the meanings and implications of those standards? I will raise this matter with a relevant British Standards committee. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote (in 001301c27c1f$b550d880$6401a8c0@net1) about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. It's 'British English', not 'English English'. Professional translators recognise them as two closely allied but distinct language variants, as are Australian and South African English. It is important to translate from, say, German, into the right one for the client. US barbecue, British barbecue, Aus barbie, SA braai, for example. I am not a professional translator, but I work in technical writing and standards writing with people from both sides of the Pond, so I tend to be able to switch from one to the other. Many of my US colleagues can also do that. We NEVER know which terms to use when addressing Canadians, and one Canadian colleague confirmed that each Canadian citizen picks his or her own selection from the two variants. (;-) There are also a few Canadian English words. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?
from a Brit in response to Jacob Schanker: A good, read :D My family always knew waterproof rubber footwear as Wellington Boots. The English vernacular being Where are my Wellies?. This variety extends to just below the knee and are the standard footwear for outdoor workers. This contrasts with a baffling line in the Grateful Dead Song Trucking which refers to Willys the well known American all terrain vehicle or 'GP'. In the past six years of residence in the US numerous mysteries in the popular songs of the sixties have been cleared up, a lifetime later. Best Regards Ted Rook, Console Engineering, ext 4659 Please note our new location and phone numbers: Crest Audio Inc, 16-00 Pollitt Drive Fair Lawn, NJ 07410 USA 201 475 4600 telephone receptionist, 8.30 - 5 pm EST. 201 475 4659 direct line w/voice mail, 24 hrs. 201 475 4677 fax, 24 hrs. Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net 25-Oct-02 8:11:54 AM Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. Regards, Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org English I'm preparing this column in a hotel room in Basingstoke, Hampshire in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom, by the way is increasingly a disunited kingdom with the devolution of Scotland and Wales, and, of course, Ireland. Devolution is sort of what we did in America in 1776, but without guns. Every time I am in England, which has been a lot, I am struck by the language differences. Churchill supposedly put it as: Two great nations separated by a common language. When a colleague prepares for their first trip to the UK, I prepare them by giving them an American-English Dictionary I found on the Web (as a text file called amlish.txt, look for it, or send me an email and I will send it to you). I also give the dictionary to English colleagues when they visit the U.S. After all, confusion goes both ways. There is an excellent web site, containing upwards of a thousand translations, with humorous commentary. Check out www.effingpot.com . Mike Etherington runs the web site. He just published a book, The Best of British - The American's guide to speaking British, based on the content of the web site. I ran across it the other day and bought it. Even after all my exposure to the British language, I found myself laughing out loud at his explanations. In case you are interested, it is ISBN 0-9536968-0-4. By this time, I'm quite fluent in English, but American words often slip out, with sometimes amusing results. The funniest was the time I had forgotten my rubbers, which is a no-no given the damp and rainy climate over here. I asked someone where I could get rubbers. The stare I received set the wheels in my head turning (yes, I still have a mechanical brain). I realized that they thought I meant condoms. I should have asked for galoshes or overshoes. In fact, many of the pitfalls in language center on differences in terms of a sexual or anatomical nature, best not discussed here. Differences in the names of articles of clothing also have a potential for amusement. Walking through the Marks Spencer's department store, I found signs for Men's slips, and Men's jumpers (translation: briefs and sweater vests). If you need to hold your pants up, don't ask for suspenders. And, don't play golf in knickers. Some of our familiar engineering terms used to have English counterparts, but increasingly, the English are adopting U.S. terminology along with the rest of the World. Accumulators are now batteries, but earth is still earth, not ground, although I hear ground being used in technical conversation. I suppose vacuum tubes are still valves, but then you don't see much of them anymore. Shields used to be screens; maybe they still are, after all, a windshield is still a windscreen here. Fortunately, the English are exceedingly polite, and forgive the occasional gaffes or misunderstandings. Their constant exposure to the best and worst of American television shows has trained them in the American language to the point where many are now bilingual. Now, if I ask where I can get a Big Mac, I'll be directed to the nearest McDonalds, not to a men's clothing store carrying large size outerwear. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher:
RE: Definition ?
I once read a British technical manual on engines. While discussing a paraffin carburetor, it mentioned that in order to start the engine it must be strangled severely. Robert -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:21 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC List' Subject:RE: Definition ? One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. Important Note: Any typographical, clerical or other error in this communication is subject to correction without any liability on the part of TAG McLaren Audio Limited. Any orders placed shall be subject to acceptance by TAG McLaren Audio Limited on its standard terms and conditions of sale which shall govern the contract for the sale and purchase of the products ordered to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Baffled by EFT test results (EN61000-4-4)
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com wrote (in 01c27c25.d813b6c0.chris.chile...@ultronics.com) about 'Baffled by EFT test results (EN61000-4-4)' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: This is probably the first time I have seen anything get through transients testing without any explicit measures to mitigate against failure. Has anyone experienced this? Is there an explanation for this? Yes, sometimes you get lucky! I have always used varistors almost as a matter of course, so you can understand my surprise. Could it be I have over-designed my RF filter to the point it is good enough for the EFTs as well? The caps are only rated for 50V though ( the clamping voltages of the varistors). If you can afford it, you haven't over-designed it. (The converse is not, unfortunately, always true.) Could it be the caps are in fact rated for such transients although this may not be stated explicitly? Should I prolong the exposure of the varistor-free circuit at 2kV to see if I am dealing with delayed failure potentially? I have been setting my burst duration to 1 minute. Without knowing what type the capacitors are, and the exact circuit configuration, one cannot say. How much of the 2 kV actually appears across the caps? (Measure, it might not be what you expect). Leave the varistors in if you can afford to and they don't cause a problem if/when they explode. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
Interesting question. Perhaps it arises from the settlement of America beginning in the sixteenth century followed by parallel but independent language evolution ? We have numerous everyday examples of languages evolving very fast in response to new situations, unless you are a French intellectual ;-) Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com 24-Oct-02 8:34:06 PM There seems to be more than a few instances of odd differences in British and American technical terms. One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. The odd thing is that the American preference for words like hood and choke implies a preference for Old English or Germanic roots. The British preference for bonnet and strangler implies a preference for Middle French and Latin. I wonder if they means anything? Regards, Ed (Eduoard or Eadvard?) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From:Ken Javor [SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent:Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:48 AM To: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Definition ? Screen is the Queen's English for what Americans call shield. As in Brit usage windscreen for American windshield. -- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Definition ? Date: Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 8:15 AM Hi all, Could anyone explain the definition of a screened cable as it is applied in EN61000-4-6 (and perhaps elsewhere) Thank-you in advance Regards, Lisa --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
This is an interesting Friday morning diversion. On the bottom of most US auto down draft carburetors is a throttle plate, that has a throttle shaft run transversely through it with a butterfly valve for each barrel. The term butterfly has also been applied to the choke leaf. A side draft carburetor simply rotates the nomenclature 90º (or, if you prefer, 270º). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) Regards Chris Colgan --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Layered Reinforced Insulation
Consider the insulation construction for an external interconecting cable connected to secondary hazardous circuits of ITE (EN60950). Is it permissible for the reinforced insulation to be constructed of two layers (e.g., conductor insulation plus external jacket) if the total thickness is at least 0.4 mm? Clause 2.2.1 appears to allow it; however, clause 2.9.4.2 appears to indicate that layered insulation can only be used internally. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
IECEE Decision 1D107
Gentlepersons: I have just been advised by an NCB that I can not obtain a single CB Scheme Certificate and Test Report for a product that has both ac and dc electrical ratings. This is supposedly based on IECEE Decision 1D107. I asked for a copy of this document and was advised that a copy could not be provided, because IECEE Decisions are, for NCBs only. Can anyone out there provide me with a copy? These kinds of decisions are likely found on the IECEE and CB Scheme web sites, but are password protected for members only. It is my view that I need to study this document to see just how far reaching the implications are and to properly advise my customers of its impact on them. This decision will affect all products with optional dc-dc converters for use as backup/redundant power supplies and products that swap out ac-dc for dc-dc converters in the factory. It may apply to other scenarios. While I have not been hit with the full force of this yet, I expect to be in the not too distant future. So will many of you. Herein lies the rub: IECEE 02, Scheme of the IECEE for Mutual Recognition of Test Certificates for Electrical Equipment (CB Scheme) Rules of Procedure (copy available from www.cbscheme.org), clearly indicates in Subclause 4.2.1 that the CB Certificate is the tradable good (my terminology) and that a Certificate is only valid when accompanied by a Test Report. So, if I am required to have a separate Certificate for an alternate set of electrical ratings or when there is a redundant/backup power supply in a piece of equipment, I will also be required to obtain *a*second*Report*. It has not been made clear to me whether this second report will have to be a complete report or might be in an amendment, or if two independent certificates can point to a single test report as the basis of the validity of both, but the subtleties of this imply that a COMPLETE REPORT will be necessary to support each Certificate. $£¥KACHING!!! I recommend to this body that each of us pull out our rapiers and lobby long and hard through each industry trade association, e-mail list and directly with all NCBs, CBTLs or what have you, to get, what is on the face of it, this ridiculous and costly decision rescinded. I am asking for this item to be added to the TIA TR41.7 and TR41.7.1 meeting agendas, for next month's quarterly meeting. There is still value in obtaining a CB Scheme Certificate and Test Report, though now that value has been taken down a notch. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
60601-1-2
Has the version EN 60601-1-2 : 2002 been published in the OJ yet? Or is the 1993 version still the latest? Can someone point me to the web for the latest harmonized standards list to the Medical Device Directive? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Value of Using Non-NRTL Engineering Firms?
Chris asks: In a quick paragraph, would you provide your opinion on the value of a Non-NRTL Listing Certification. Hard to talk about value in such general terms, when the neither the product nor the application is known. However, a few reactions come to mind: 1. UL was a non-NRTL Listing provider for the first 85 years of its existence. Obviously a third party certification organization can provide value to first and second parties in the absence of government accreditation programs. 2. There are 3rd party listing programs for many products or functions under which there is no NRTL accreditation program applicable. Obviously, there is value in listing in these areas also. 3. Not all NRTL laboratories are equally regarded by authorities or by the market - so NRTL accreditation is not the sole basis, nor is it always the primary basis for determining the value of a listing. 4. In its strictest sense, the NRTL accreditation applies to workplace requirements and certain installation codes. In all other applications for electrical products, including household consumer appliances and electronics, there is no legal requirement for NRTL listing, and I'm not clear on whether NRTL based listing would provide any advantage over non-NRTL based listing in the case of a liability suit. I suspect not. I suspect also that if a household consumer of electrical products is concerned about listing, they are looking at certifcation brands, and have little or no understanding of what an NRTL designation is. 5. Having said all of the above, it always behooves a manufacturer to use an NRTL certifier if one is available. My opinions. Greg Galluccio www.productapprovals.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Value of Using Non-NRTL Engineering Firms?
Hello Again Group, There are several documents available from OSHA's site. Attached is another pdf from OSHA dated 1993 to show more history of OSHA requirements/laws... This letter defines the term approved which is used in several 29CRF documents and also used in the NEC. Again, OSHA confirms must be approved and explains approved can only be findings from an NRTL. Just another document I located. thanks group for your help Chris All electrical equipment must be approved.pdf Description: All electrical equipment must be approved.pdf
Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01425AAD@CAT) about 'Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle No, that's worked by the accelerator (gas) pedal. maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) I've seen the term 'strangler' used for 'choke' but it was in a specific context (I thought it was motorcycle carburettors (carburators), but now I suppose not) and it is certainly not the normal term. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Value of Using Non-NRTL Engineering Firms?
We are working some responses to OSHA and would like to ask for some industry response from the Product Safety group (EMC welcome to respond too). Just looking for a quick statement on the Value of using a Non-NRTL firm for testing and/or certification (Listing). Statement: Non-NRTL laboratories can provide Listings and publish the customers (thus Listing) however, based OSHA law, NEC requirements, Retailer specification, and other MOU/MRA with Canada/EU, it would not seem to be a significant accomplishment if not an NRTL. In a quick paragraph, would you provide your opinion on the value of a Non-NRTL Listing Certification. Thanks Much Chris PS: Attached is a pdf from Richard Fairfax - OSHA's Director Directorate of Compliance Programs which states that Electrical products in the workplace must be Listed or Labeled by an NRTL to meet OSHA Law. US DOL Requirements.pdf Description: US DOL Requirements.pdf
English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?
Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. Regards, Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org English I'm preparing this column in a hotel room in Basingstoke, Hampshire in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom, by the way is increasingly a disunited kingdom with the devolution of Scotland and Wales, and, of course, Ireland. Devolution is sort of what we did in America in 1776, but without guns. Every time I am in England, which has been a lot, I am struck by the language differences. Churchill supposedly put it as: Two great nations separated by a common language. When a colleague prepares for their first trip to the UK, I prepare them by giving them an American-English Dictionary I found on the Web (as a text file called amlish.txt, look for it, or send me an email and I will send it to you). I also give the dictionary to English colleagues when they visit the U.S. After all, confusion goes both ways. There is an excellent web site, containing upwards of a thousand translations, with humorous commentary. Check out www.effingpot.com . Mike Etherington runs the web site. He just published a book, The Best of British - The American's guide to speaking British, based on the content of the web site. I ran across it the other day and bought it. Even after all my exposure to the British language, I found myself laughing out loud at his explanations. In case you are interested, it is ISBN 0-9536968-0-4. By this time, I'm quite fluent in English, but American words often slip out, with sometimes amusing results. The funniest was the time I had forgotten my rubbers, which is a no-no given the damp and rainy climate over here. I asked someone where I could get rubbers. The stare I received set the wheels in my head turning (yes, I still have a mechanical brain). I realized that they thought I meant condoms. I should have asked for galoshes or overshoes. In fact, many of the pitfalls in language center on differences in terms of a sexual or anatomical nature, best not discussed here. Differences in the names of articles of clothing also have a potential for amusement. Walking through the Marks Spencer's department store, I found signs for Men's slips, and Men's jumpers (translation: briefs and sweater vests). If you need to hold your pants up, don't ask for suspenders. And, don't play golf in knickers. Some of our familiar engineering terms used to have English counterparts, but increasingly, the English are adopting U.S. terminology along with the rest of the World. Accumulators are now batteries, but earth is still earth, not ground, although I hear ground being used in technical conversation. I suppose vacuum tubes are still valves, but then you don't see much of them anymore. Shields used to be screens; maybe they still are, after all, a windshield is still a windscreen here. Fortunately, the English are exceedingly polite, and forgive the occasional gaffes or misunderstandings. Their constant exposure to the best and worst of American television shows has trained them in the American language to the point where many are now bilingual. Now, if I ask where I can get a Big Mac, I'll be directed to the nearest McDonalds, not to a men's clothing store carrying large size outerwear. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Baffled by EFT test results (EN61000-4-4)
Hi Group, So I went ahead and built a test PCB with my inductors and ferrites in PI filter formation with capacitors - just like I threatened to do a few months ago ( e-mail subject header Designing for low power radiated and conducted immunity describing a small 3-wire low power DC pressure sensor). The analog circuit simulating a pressure sensor is simply a 5V regulator (LP2985) supplying a AD623 IN-amp monitoring the differential voltage across a wheatstone bridge (4k7) connected to the same 5V rail. The output then simply connects to an Avometer (through a PI filter of course). A variant of the test PCB doesn't even have the regulator. It is that simple. I took the PCB through radiated immunity testing to EN 61000-4-3 and met 100V/m, and through conducted immunity testing to EN 61000-4-6 and met the 10V level. All tests were done with unscreened cable. I also proved the protected circuit was susceptible when the filter was removed. Having decided I had sized my inductors, ferrites and caps appropriately, and done the PCB layout correctly, I then proceeded to add small SMT varistors for transients to EN 61000-4-4. The test PCB was again good for 2kV. I then shuffled the relative positions of the varistors in the circuit (initially pre- PI filter, then post PI filter ) and it didn't seem to make any difference. The idea was to get some permutations of varistor location and then repeat the RF immunity tests in case the varistors introduced susceptibility (an observation I have made in the past). I then took the varistors off the board altogether and still the PCB meets the 2kV stress levels ( I am using the levels of EN 61000-6-2 ). I am not too keen to raise the stakes to 4kV just now because there are more tests I would like to perform on the PCB before I let it go up in smoke. This is probably the first time I have seen anything get through transients testing without any explicit measures to mitigate against failure. Has anyone experienced this? Is there an explanation for this? I have always used varistors almost as a matter of course, so you can understand my surprise. Could it be I have over-designed my RF filter to the point it is good enough for the EFTs as well? The caps are only rated for 50V though ( the clamping voltages of the varistors). Could it be the caps are in fact rated for such transients although this may not be stated explicitly? Should I prolong the exposure of the varistor-free circuit at 2kV to see if I am dealing with delayed failure potentially? I have been setting my burst duration to 1 minute. Any pointers? Regards - Chris Chileshe - Ultronics Ltd This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Engrish
I'm used to be taken aback when someone said, excuse me - I now realise that they love hearing English spoken as it is write. G An Englishmen in VA. -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Rook Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 5:09 PM To: Subject: Engrish Also watch out for taps in the wardrobe and only use a torch to check the petrol level. Two countries separated by a common language :D an Englishman in NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. In nearly 30 years of fiddling around with motorbikes engines, racing cars and more recently learning about aircraft piston engines for my private pilots licence I've never heard the term strangler used insted of choke here in England. Throttle maybe but not strangler. Either someone's had you on or your having us on :) Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. Important Note: Any typographical, clerical or other error in this communication is subject to correction without any liability on the part of TAG McLaren Audio Limited. Any orders placed shall be subject to acceptance by TAG McLaren Audio Limited on its standard terms and conditions of sale which shall govern the contract for the sale and purchase of the products ordered to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'Definition ?' on Thu, 24 Oct 2002: There seems to be more than a few instances of odd differences in British and American technical terms. One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. No, we don't. I thought 'strangler' was US! The odd thing is that the American preference for words like hood and choke implies a preference for Old English or Germanic roots. The British preference for bonnet and strangler implies a preference for Middle French and Latin. I wonder if they means anything? Yes, probably. US English has tended to keep older words and forms (probably due to being more rural: it also applies to rural areas in Britain), while 'standard' British English has accepted more Romance influence since, say, 1600. British English terms for cars were strongly influenced by French - consider even 'garage' and 'chauffeur'. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote (in 70B321FEC75C704A846DEE3D856ACB1108418437@riv- exch2.echostar.com) about 'Definition ?' on Thu, 24 Oct 2002: And don't forget to put on your plimsols Now archaic. when you want to jog, take a bumbershoot Now archaic. in case it rains and wrap your thanks giving What is 'Thanksgiving'?(;-) turkey in aluminium... -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
There seems to be more than a few instances of odd differences in British and American technical terms. One that I especially like is the name for that little butterfly valve in a carburetor; we call it a choke, but the British call it a strangler. The odd thing is that the American preference for words like hood and choke implies a preference for Old English or Germanic roots. The British preference for bonnet and strangler implies a preference for Middle French and Latin. I wonder if they means anything? Regards, Ed (Eduoard or Eadvard?) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From:Ken Javor [SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent:Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:48 AM To: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Definition ? Screen is the Queen's English for what Americans call shield. As in Brit usage windscreen for American windshield. -- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Definition ? Date: Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 8:15 AM Hi all, Could anyone explain the definition of a screened cable as it is applied in EN61000-4-6 (and perhaps elsewhere) Thank-you in advance Regards, Lisa --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: PSE mark -- Importer's details
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:56:41 +0800, kohscp koh...@singnet.com.sg wrote: Under the DENAN law of Japan, PSE mark within a diamond box is mandatory for AC power adapter. For foreign manufacturer power adaptor, the Importer's name must be on the product. We've been shipping the AC power adaptor into Japan with Importer's name in English. Someone just to me that the Importer's name need to be in Japanese. Is anyone in the group able to provide information on this or confirm this piece of news? If Japanese name is a must, could you provide an official documents on this. Any link to the documents or official website. The Law doesn't say that the importer's name must be written in Japanese, but importer's official name in Japan is usually Japanese - effectively, it would require the name to be written in Japanese. It is possible to use abbreviations or trademarks instead of the official name, but it would require permission from METI as required by the rule. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/tsato/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: High Speed Clock Routing
It is difficult to generalize without knowing more of the specifics such as logic family, clock rate, edge rate, trace impedance, etc. but I'll try. ;) scott@jci.com wrote: All, I have a question regarding trace routing for high-speed clock signals. I have one driver, and two receivers. The distance between the driver and 1st receiver is roughly 2.5cm, the distance between 1st receiver and 2nd receiver is 3cm, and the distance between driver and 2nd receiver is 3.5cm. I actually have 2 questions: 1) What is a good rule of thumb for routing and termination of this high-speed clock trace? Do it carefully. Sorry to be so obtuse but without knowing what the speed is in high-speed I don't know what else to say. 2) Is daisy chain routing preferred (meaning driver to 1st receiver, then 2nd receiver), or should 2 traces of equal length be routed, 1 to each receiver (each of these two traces will have twice the impedance of the single trace emanating from the driver so that impedance matching will be maintained)? Daisy chaining is to be avoided since it increases clock skew but it is much simpler to drive and terminate. Termination reduces reflections but leads to higher static and dynamic current flow. EMI is related to current flow so it is possible to increase EMI by terminating. Double the traces and you more than double the termination problems. There are partial solutions such as partial termination and diode clamping techniques such as Forced perfect but none are simple. This is why SI Engineers make good money. For your geometry your 2t reflection on a daisy chain would occur around 300 ps. This is probably acceptable unless you have some sub nanosecond logic in your circuit. Ok to generalize, you don't need to daisy chain if the total path is not over say 5 cm in length. (This assumes you are not running sub nanosecond or TTL logic.) You can probably get by without terminating or by partially terminating in say 200 ohms. Fred Townsend DC to Light Consulting Any information, in general, or in specific on the subject is greatly appreciated. Thank you. Best Regards, Scott Mee Johnson Controls Inc. Automotive Systems Group EMC Product Compliance 616.394.2565 scott@jci.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Definition ?
And don't forget to put on your plimsols when you want to jog, take a bumbershoot in case it rains and wrap your thanks giving turkey in aluminium... Best Regards Charles Grasso Senior Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: Ted Rook [mailto:t...@crestaudio.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:04 PM To: Subject: RE: Definition ? Yep, and that's in front of the boot. The gearstick and accelerator are in between :D Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com 24-Oct-02 12:41:52 PM The windscreen? Isn't that right behind the bonnet? Chris -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:48 AM To: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Definition ? Screen is the Queen's English for what Americans call shield. As in Brit usage windscreen for American windshield. -- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Definition ? Date: Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 8:15 AM Hi all, Could anyone explain the definition of a screened cable as it is applied in EN61000-4-6 (and perhaps elsewhere) Thank-you in advance Regards, Lisa --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald:
Re: Definition ?
I read in !emc-pstc that Ted Rook t...@crestaudio.com wrote (in sdb8192b@peavey.com) about 'Definition ?' on Thu, 24 Oct 2002: gearstick gearlever -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
