[PSES] Wire Questions
We manufacture a product that is intended for both the US and Canadian markets in addition to the European community. Our wiring is currently UL/CSA and harmonized. Looking at the various wire vendors there are UL/CSA CE certifications and certifications that are UL/CSA, CE and Harmonized. Is it acceptable to have wiring with just UL/CSA and CE? Also, I remember years ago a document or standard that stated that a grounding wire could be smaller than the load wires. The argument was that it doesn't have to support the load but just fault the input current. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Thanks Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Signal words, definition and usage
As for NOTICE, I have seen the exclamation point used as an icon in front of the statement. It seemed to convey the message very well. Based on ISO 3864-2 or ANSI Z536.6 is this allowable? Rick From: Greg McClure [mailto:gmccl...@lexmark.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 8:40 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Signal words, definition and usage Looking for input from the group. The definition of the signal words per ISO 3864-2 and ANSI Z535.6 are: DANGER - signal word used to indicate an imminently hazardous situation which, if not avoided, will result in death or serious injury WARNING - signal word used to indicate a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided, could result in death or serious injury CAUTION - signal word used to indicate a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided, could result in minor or moderate injury NOTICE - indicates information considered important, but not hazard-related (e.g. messages related to property damage). The safety alert symbol shall not be used with this signal word. When a signal word is used for messages relating to property damage, NOTICE is the choice of signal word. [This definition is from ANSI Z535.6, NOTICE does not appear in ISO 3864-2] The signal words are to be used to identify safety messages and property damage messages. In another context, some of the signal words have been used to warn of data loss or damage, which I suppose is a form of property damage. Many standards allow the use/definition of the signal words to be modified, provided they are defined in the documentation provided with the product. In many cases we have seen the severity associated with the words Warning and Caution reversed, or even the mention of injury deleted such that Warning is associated with equipment or property damage only and Caution is used to refer to potential injury. Has anyone had an experience with any agency or test house where the use of signal words was challenged, or any case where the definition had to be defended when it was not strictly in line with the standards? Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240tel:859%20232%203240 office 859 232 6882tel:859%20232%206882 fax - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Serrated head screws for grounding/bonding
Over the years it has always been a requirement for safety grounds to have the paint removed (or penetrated) to allow for a proper (and tested) ground connection. As pointed out, the military typically requires an anti-corrosive material over the exposed metal and possibly a coating over the ground. For commercial products it appears to be a common practice to ground to exposed (un-plated or un-coated) metal. I have found that a gas tight bond created with a star washer remains effective even on a corroded panel. So for commercial products what is the consensus? Should we removing paint and secure or add topical materials to prevent corrosion under the lug? Thanks Rick -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 12:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Serrated head screws for grounding/bonding In message 001401d0546c$35404530$9fc0cf90$@ieee.org, dated Sun, 1 Mar 2015, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org writes: OTOH, there is still that possibility of a heavy fault current blasting away tiny point-contact conduction paths. I wonder whether that actually happens. It seems to me that the points might, instead, melt and weld to the substrate. That's how spot-welding works. An experiment or three is indicated. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Speaking of EMC Immunity
I was talking with an EMC engineer at our facility and he introduced me to a site called Banana Skins. This is a list of EMC immunity problems that should be considered for product design. Apparently complying with the standard (if there is one) can have rather disastrous results. As an example, a lady died as a result of EMC sensitivity between the warlike talkie in the ambulance and the heart machine. For your reading review: http://www.compliance-club.com/archive/old_archive/Bananaskins.htm Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Certification of Unique Equipment
It is always my desire to provide products that are CE Marked for Europe and NRTL listed for North America. That said, I continue to find products delivered for our own production environment that carry no safety marking that I can identify. I have discussed this concern with other engineers who worked in previous companies who indicated that they NEVER were required to have certification on their products. As I understand it I could deliver a one of a kind system to a unique customer without certification in North America. At what point is certification required? Is it based on the quantity of systems, the customer, the AHJ, OSHA or marketing? Is it allowable to ship a unique, prototype system to a specialized customer, without NRTL? Thanks Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Recuperator Certification - ASME
I have an application for a recuperator that extracts heat from flue gas. The ASME standard (Section IV) for Heating boilers is quite complex and I am just trying to determine if ASME Certification and H-Marking are required for domestic (US/Canada) applications. The standard appears to allow an exemption based on Boilers used exclusively for hot water, 200,000 btu (58.6 kW) 210 degrees F 120 gallon Any help is appreciated. Thanks Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Checklist for standards
As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Buying Standards
Can someone explain the disparity in the price of standards between the Estonia (EVS) and those procured through other sources? When a standard is written it seems to me that a cost is associated with the development and intiial publication, in other words a copyright. As such all starndards (regardless of source) should reflect similar prices. Just curious... Rick -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 12:28 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards Please note that I am NOT an advocate of violating copyrights or IP. Most of the (rather complex) PDF spec is in ISO32000-1. Note that PDF malware and non-standard encryption (aka ransomware) is not uncommon; and Adobe itself has a history of security failures. My employer is in the process of removing the Adobe reader from company machines, except where sand-boxed (VMware for Windoze, QEMU for Linux). www.cs.cmu.edu/~./dst/Adobe/Gallery/fileSaveAs.c http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ Brian -Original Message- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:17 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards Well there is Adobe and Fileopen in that chain, as the license basically works with Adobe reader only. Adobe is a well-known track everything internet operator. And for those bodies. they act like commercial companies Who looks over their shoulders BTW.? Gert -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: woensdag 24 september 2014 14:57 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards In message FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA48920AA0D@ZEUS.cetest.local, dated Wed, 24 Sep 2014, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl writes: The single user version is not usable in a commercial environment, as it phones home and might transfer information that is confidential to my business operations. Do you think a National Standards Body would have anything to do with such malpractice? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid faciamus nisi sit? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Batch Field Testing in EU
I have been told that mCHP products may have allowances to receive batch authorization for a limited number of units to be fielded in the UK. The criteria is that the systems must be deemed safe (LVD etc.) but may not require the CE Mark to be complete. From what I can tell this allowance might be unique to gas appliances but have been unable to validate. One of my customers suggested that I contact BSI for clarification. Before I do that does anyone have additional information on this process? Thanks Rick Busche Certification Engineer Qnergy Inc. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Another Machinery Directive Question
There have been some recent changes to the LVD, in particular 2006/95/EC where the LVD addresses the machinery directive if the equipment is primarily electrical. On the VDE website I found a discussion on this but I am not sure if it is allowable to post that link. You can search for redefined against Low Voltage Directive. Basically they state that LVD adequately addresses the Machinery Directive for the following products. 1.household appliances meant for household used 2.audio systems and video recorders 3.information-technology appliances 4.normal office equipment 5.electrical switches 6.electric motors Rick Busche Certification Engineer H. +1 801 814-4006 T. +1 801 814-4006 E.rick.bus...@qnergy.com W. www.qnergy.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Another Machinery Directive Question
As a point of clarification, I contacted Nick directly and yes the reference was from 2006/42/EC but the interpretation by the VDE appears to be an interruption by someone for whom English is not their primarily language. That said the complexity of the directives and standards never ceases to amaze me. Rick Busche Certification Engineer H. +1 801 814-4006 T. +1 801 814-4006 E.rick.bus...@qnergy.commailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com W. www.qnergy.comhttp://www.qnergy.com/ From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:41 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Another Machinery Directive Question This wording comes from 2006/42/EC, not 2006/95/EC. There is no mention of the Machinery Directive in any version of the LVD (including the new one, 2014/35/EU). On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:20, Rick Busche rick.bus...@qnergy.commailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com wrote: There have been some recent changes to the LVD, in particular 2006/95/EC where the LVD addresses the machinery directive if the equipment is primarily electrical. On the VDE website I found a discussion on this but I am not sure if it is allowable to post that link. You can search for redefined against Low Voltage Directive. Basically they state that LVD adequately addresses the Machinery Directive for the following products. 1.household appliances meant for household used 2.audio systems and video recorders 3.information-technology appliances 4.normal office equipment 5.electrical switches 6.electric motors - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Recommendations for ASME BPV
Does anyone have a recommendation for an ASME BPV authorized inspector (Section 8 VIII) in Utah or perhaps the western United States? If so, please contact me off line. Thanks Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Television Manufacturing Documentary From The Late 1950's - YouTube
In one of the scenes I saw an old RCA VTVM. This brought back very fond memories. A comment was made that the caps were tested to TWICE the rated voltage. Isn't that the purpose of a rating, to identify the maximum voltage and ensure that the working voltages are lower? What became of the old massive RCA plant in Camden N.J.? As an antique car collector, I loved seeing the old cars in the parking lot and in use by employees. Thanks for the post. Rick From: Mike Violette [mailto:mi...@acbcert.com] Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 4:44 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Television Manufacturing Documentary From The Late 1950's - YouTube Fascinating. Love the bow ties. My pop worked at a GE plant in those days that made magnetron assemblies. They were having high failure rates and he was assigned to investigate the problem. Turned out that one of the assembly ladies was having a tough time putting one of the capacitors on the boards because the leads were too short, so she yanked them out a bit to make it easier to solder it in. Mike Violette Washington Laboratories American Certification Body mi...@wll.commailto:mi...@wll.com +1 240 401 1388 On Jun 12, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Paasche, Dieter wrote: Testing has changed over time, or not? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TF2DZ0E0Q4 Dieter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual emissions, an example using a class D stereo amp
Do we still have AM? Someone once called that was Ancient Modulation. :) I suspect that in a few years fluorescent lamps will give way to LED technology. As a side note, do LED lamps create EMI concerns? -Original Message- From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:02 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual emissions, an example using a class D stereo amp On 6/4/2014 9:47 AM, Mike Violette wrote: Class B limits are amazingly conservative, to which large populations of devices ascribe. Try using an ordinary AM radio beside a compact fluorescent lamp as on a beside table. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] PED vs TPED
John Thanks for the information. Regarding your comment: Since the pressure vessels must be transported from where they are made to where they are used, that must be permitted! Are you saying that PED compliant pressure vessels could be shipped pressurized if integrated into a system? Thanks -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:51 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PED vs TPED In message 616d251d1a9e498e9bb4e5a8568fc...@blupr01mb147.prod.exchangelabs.com, dated Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Rick Busche rick.bus...@qnergy.com writes: In other words, can a PED compliant vessel be transported with supplementary protection such as a robust shipping container or the enclosure itself? Since the pressure vessels must be transported from where they are made to where they are used, that must be permitted! Is the intent of the TPED (Pi mark) reserved for vessels routinely filled and transported unprotected as one would find with an oxygen or acetylene tank. You need to read the Directive and form your own judgement. Your understanding might be different from mine. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] PED vs TPED
Pressure vessels typically require compliance with the PED 97/23/EC (Pressure Equipment Directive). Another option is the TPED 2010/35/EU (Transportable Pressure Equipment Directive). One could argue that there could be a difference between pressure vessels needing to be occasionally transported and a vessel designed to be routinely transported. In other words, can a PED compliant vessel be transported with supplementary protection such as a robust shipping container or the enclosure itself? Is the intent of the TPED (Pi mark) reserved for vessels routinely filled and transported unprotected as one would find with an oxygen or acetylene tank. Thanks - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] PED and TPED Directives
I seem to have difficulty locating a copy of Directive 2008/68/EC Inland Transport of Dangerous Goods. This document is referenced by Directive 2010/35/EU Transportable Pressure Equipment (TPED). A related document is Directive 93/23//EC Pressure Equipment Directive (PED). I have an application where the pressure vessel is intended to be stationary, BUT may be transported pressurized. Obviously I am trying to understand the applicability of each directive and gain a general understanding of the construction details and equipment category prior to discussions with my Notified Body. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Pressure Vessel Directive (PED)
Do I understand it correctly, that having a vessel certified to the PED by a notified body, means that it is also accepted by CFR 49 (DOT) for transportation within the U.S.? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Commercial Safety Requirments
I am looking for suggestions for commercial (UL, CSA, etc) standards that might apply to ITE RF rack mounted equipment, antennas, all mounted on a flatbed trailer. As mentioned most of the hardware is ITE with the more typical safety standards applied. Once those products get hard mounted to a trailer and are now in a mobile mode what other standards are applicable. For the record this devices utilized commercial power 208/120V and as such NEC rules should also apply, or do they? At this time my primary focus is not the RF safety but rather the safety of a mobile trailer. Thanks Rick Busche - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words]
Oops, my mistake WARNING should read as follows: Indicates a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided, could result in death or serious injury. The major difference between Danger and Warning is the change from WILL to COULD. -Original Message- From: Rick Busche Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:31 AM To: 'David Heald'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: ni...@tsd.serco.com Subject: RE: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words] Nick According to ANSI Z35.4 the following definitions are provided: DANGER - Indicates an imminently hazardous situation which, if not avoided will result in death or serious injury. This signal word is to be limited to the most extreme situations. WARNING - Indicates a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided may result in minor or moderate injury. It may also be used to alert against unsafe practices. CAUTION - Indicates a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided may result in minor or moderate injury. It may also be used to alert against unsafe practices. Note: DANGER or WARNING should not be considered for property damage accidents unless personal injury risk appropriate to these levels is also involved. CAUTION is permitted for property-damage-only accidents. Rick Busche Evans Sutherland rbus...@es.com - --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words]
Nick According to ANSI Z35.4 the following definitions are provided: DANGER - Indicates an imminently hazardous situation which, if not avoided will result in death or serious injury. This signal word is to be limited to the most extreme situations. WARNING - Indicates a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided may result in minor or moderate injury. It may also be used to alert against unsafe practices. CAUTION - Indicates a potentially hazardous situation which, if not avoided may result in minor or moderate injury. It may also be used to alert against unsafe practices. Note: DANGER or WARNING should not be considered for property damage accidents unless personal injury risk appropriate to these levels is also involved. CAUTION is permitted for property-damage-only accidents. Rick Busche Evans Sutherland rbus...@es.com -Original Message- From: David Heald [mailto:davehe...@mediaone.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:02 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: ni...@tsd.serco.com Subject: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words] Forwarded for Nick Martin. Please 'Reply All' and/or CC: ni...@tsd.serco.com when replying. Dave Heald EMC-PSTC Admin Original Message Subject: User Warning Signal Words List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 13:33:48 + From: Nick Martin ni...@tsd.serco.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Hi List Can anyone help with the following regarding warnings to users and signal words User warnings normally use one of three signal words CAUTION, WARNING, DANGER. I believe that each of these increases the severity of the warning. Can anyone define any specific criteria for when a caution becomes a warning and ideally point to an IEC or other specification that provides guidelines on the use of these words? Or is my belief incorrect and the words are inter-changeable? thanks in advance for any answers Nick Martin Serco Test Systems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Limited Current
I am working on a project that delivers 8 KV to 1 CRTs mounted on a helmet mounted display. The output of the high voltage supply is limited to 100uA and assuming that the supply complies with paragraph 2.4 (2.4.4 in particular) Paragraph 2.4.1 states that: Except as permitted in 2.4.6, segregation of parts of LIMITED CURRENT CIRCUITS from other circuits shall be as described in 2.3 for SELV Circuits So what this tells me is if the stored charge is less than 45 uC (2.4.6), it is considered safe with only basic insulation? If over the stored charge limit, it must be treated as an SELV circuit and isolated accordingly. My application mandates that the anode wire be as small as possible, as it is bundled inside a larger cable grouping and is limited by the design of the helmet mount. In lieu of a standard HV anode wire I have found that a coax cable provides excellent performance when tested for dielectric strength. Upwards of 2 KV is possible without breakdown. I am considering grounding the shield to prevent static buildup and the possibility of an potential breakdown in the coax. So if this is in fact LIMITED CURRENT it seems to me the application is valid. My questions now are: 1. If this in fact LIMITED CURRENT, is basic insulation such as the coax adequate? 2. If the requirement is SELV, is it reasonable that the insulation between the center conductor and shield may meet the requirement for reinforced insulation?l 3. To add additional safety should the coax shield be tied to chassis ground or should the shield be tied to the anode return? I am especially concerned because this cable routes against the body between the helmet and supply, and is in close approximation to the head. Any thoughts or comments you may have would be appreciated. Rick Busche Evans Sutherland rbus...@es.com
IEC 320 Cordset Lock
At one time I remember seeing a cordset lock to keep IEC 320 plugs connected to the receptacle. This was a formed wire assembly which attached to the mounting threads of the receptacle or filter and snapped over the cord. Does anyone know if these are still available and if they present any safety concerns. Thanks in advance Rick Busche rbus...@es.com rbus...@es.com
RE: Spira EMI Gaskets
We have recently started using a spiral gasket on the edges of our VME front panels. I assume the Spira gaskets are the same or similar. If so, they are working MUCH better than the fingers we replaced. Durability is better, insertion resistance lower and in our case we have been able to mix and match with no apparent degradation. Rick Busche rbus...@es.com -Original Message- From: MikonCons [SMTP:mikonc...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 19, 1998 9:02 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Spira EMI Gaskets I just caught Ed's comment on the use of Spira gaskets. I have recommended their POSSIBLE use to one of my clients for sealing around some single-board computer VME cards; however, I have not directly evaluated the performance of Spira gaskets. Their literature makes great claims (up to 130 dB SE out to 1 GHz), but has any of our readers personally evaluated their effectiveness? Thanks for your time, Mike Conn Owner/Principal Consultant Mikon Consulting
RE: transportation environmental condition
Massimo I'm assuming that you are referring to equipment installed on an aircraft as opposed to used or carried on the aircraft. I have been using an Aeronautical Specification for Environmental compliance. Its called RTCA/DO-160C (actually there is now a D release as well) This address vibration, altitude, temperature, immunity, emissions and all airborne environmental concerns. Let me know if I can be of any help. Rick Busche Evans Sutherland rbus...@es.com -Original Message- From: regr...@esaote.com [SMTP:regr...@esaote.com] Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 6:43 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:transportation environmental condition Hello all! Does anybody know the foreseeable environmental condition (temperature, humidity, pressure) you have during transportation of a device on a plane? Of course they depend on flight heigth, but is it possible to get rough, common-sense data for the design of packaging? Many thanks Massimo --- ESAOTE S.p.A. Massimo Polignano Research Product Development Regulatory Affairs Via di Caciolle,15 tel:+39.55.4229402 I- 50127 Florencefax:+39.55.4223305 e-mail: regr...@esaote.com
Comparative Tracking Index
IEC 950 defines CIT (comparative tracking index) in terms of material groups for the determination of creapage distance. Specifically groups I, II, IIIa and IIIb. are mentioned. In paragraph 2.9.3 (note 3) the actual index (CTI) is referred to as 600 or 400. My questions are as follows: 1. Is this CTI (as assigned by UL in the yellow book) actually a voltage level? 2. The FR4 laminate we use has been rated at 205. As such the maximum creapage distance is mandated. Is it common to find better material? Is this 205 level typical of common FR4 materials? Thanks Rick Busche Evans Sutherland rbus...@es.com
RE: Re[2]: Upcoming EMC Seminar
I'm not sure that limited amounts of information like this is a violation. Because of the broad range of people on this list, updates on courses and information pertinent to EMI/Safety should be welcomed. Obviously this is a gray area as it could get out of hand. I personally don't mind receiving related information and don't consider it spamming. Rick Busche rbus...@es.com -Original Message- From: Jim Hulbert [SMTP:hulbe...@pb.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 8:56 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; richard_c...@iris.scitex.com Subject:Re[2]: Upcoming EMC Seminar According to the Charter and Guidelines (10 March 1995) blatant or overt advertising of goods or services is not permitted. I think this is a good rule. This should not be a forum for free advertising. There are plenty of other appropriate avenues for people to advertise their goods and services. Jim Hulbert __ Reply Separator _ Subject: Re: Upcoming EMC Seminar Author: Richard Cass richard_c...@iris.scitex.com at SMTPGWY Date:2/10/98 8:21 AM I thought that blatant advertising of services, including FOR PROFIT seminars, was not allowed on EMC-PSTC forum. Am I wrong? Regards, Richard Cass __ Reply Separator _ Subject: Upcoming EMC Seminar Author: mlwald...@aol.com at INTERNET Date:2/10/98 4:29 AM We just wanted to take this opportunity to let every one know that there are still a few seats available to attend the EMC Seminar being presented by Mr. Henry Ott and hosted by RhienTexas, Inc. For further information check out the web page at www.rheintech.com/seminar.html. Those of you that wish to attend are urged to register by Febrauary 20, 1998. There is a correction that must be noted about the information provided on the above web page, the price for this two day seminar is not $750 it is $675 per participant. Thank you, Murrell Waldron RhienTexas, Inc. 1701 E Plano Pkwy, Suite 150 Plano, TX 75074 P: 972-509-2566 F: 972-509-0073 email: mlwald...@aol.com
RE: Red Indicators and EN60950
Over the years the use of a red LED has been discouraged for use on products because Red was reserved for situations hazardous to an operator. This resulted in the elimination of Red LEDs from keyboards and other devices. Clause 1.7.8.2 of EN 60950 specifically allows Red LEDs in areas where safety is not involved. As such I see no problem using the device in conjunction with a user operated switch. I think that was the intent of permitting red LEDs. Another point is that a Red LED is much different than the use of a Red indicator light. Regarding my last posting on shielded cables not being allowed in Europe. I was misinformed. Apparently there are no longer any rules to this effect. The beauty of this discussion group is that I learn something every day. Rick rbus...@es.com -Original Message- From: Jim Eichner [SMTP:jeich...@statpower.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:06 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Cc: Rob Cameron; Jim Eichner Subject:Red Indicators and EN60950 Clause 1.7.8.2 of EN60950 says: Where safety is involved, colours of controls and indicators shall comply with IEC73. Where colours are used for functional controls or indicators, any colour, including red, is permitted provided that it is clear that safety is not involved. There has been a thread on this in the past so I looked it up at RCIC and found that we never really talked about what exactly 950 means when it says Where safety is involved and provided that it is clear that safety is not involved. The situation I am considering is an LED used in conjunction with a user-operable switch that is located in a control circuit (not a true on-off switch) and controls the output of a DC-to-AC inverter. When the switch is on the output of the inverter is enabled and 230Vac is present on the output receptacle of the inverter. Allowing the user to know at a glance whether or not there is 230Vac present on the output could be construed as a safety function. On the other hand, the user has no access to the 230Vac in terms of shock hazard (standard Schuko outlet for example), so one could argue that safety is not a function of this indicator. Q: What are your opinions? Can this LED be red and still satisfy the intent of EN60950? The problem is a conflicting U.S. standard that insists on a red indicator. We don't want to have to have a second version of the control panel to cover both standards. Thanks for your help. Regards, Jim Eichner Statpower Technologies Corporation jeich...@statpower.com http://www.statpower.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest.
RE: Shielded power cord, seeking source for
It is my understanding that shielded power cords are not allowed on products in European markets. As I recall, the rationale is that if a cord is replaced, there is no guarantee that it can, or will, be replaced with a shielded cord. -Original Message- From: Bob Blank [SMTP:bbl...@us.bnsmc.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 1998 12:24 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:Shielded power cord, seeking source for Seeking source for shielded power cords to meet CE mark requirements. Prefer braided shield (80% tinned copper) instead of foil 18/3, CEE color coding, 10A, 125 V, PVC jacket, 9'10 long should have female connector PH-30 (angled IEC 320) molded on Should meet any other specs required for CE mark Any advice is greatly appreciated R. Blank
RE: HALT testing
It is my understanding that the primary use of HALT is to sort out infant mortality of electronic devices and to identify potential solder/pc deficiencies. -Original Message- From: Jim Eichner [SMTP:jeich...@statpower.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 12:09 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: HALT testing Sounds like an interesting approach, but it sounds like it will only uncover those failure modes that are related to the product's environment. What about line voltage fluctuations, surges, etc., or for power supplies things like load cycling, load transients, etc. Does anyone know if there are established HALT procedures that include these sorts of things? Thanks. Regards, Jim Eichner Statpower Technologies Corporation jeich...@statpower.com http://www.statpower.com The opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. -Original Message- From: MVA 850SS [SMTP:mva85...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:45 PM To: r...@itsqs.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: HALT testing HALT, Highly Accelerated Life Testing is a test-to-failure approach to determine weak designs. You don't ever pass HALT, you just reach a point of diminishing returns from a design cost/improvement ratio. There are various parameters that change such as vibration, temperature and humidity. All those change in a predetermined (or not) pseudo-random fashion. It is an excellent approach to determine quickly what the likely warranty returns will be or what the long term failures will be!
Heavy Industrial Peripherals
My company manufactures large main-frame computer devices for commercial and military simulation environments. As such, our IGs (Image Generators) are CE marked and tested to Heavy Industrial immunity and emission levels. Attached to these IGs, are off-the-shelf peripheral devices such as monitors, printers and terminals. These commercial devices would not be expected to pass the 10V/m radiated immunity or other portions of EN 50082-2, as they are typically defined as Light Industrial. Magnetic immunity for the display devices would pose another significant risk of non compliance. As a system integrator how can this issue be resolved? Can someone comment as to the availability of Heavy Industrial peripheral devices. Do they exist? Are there suggestions for commercial peripheral devices which have successfully been used in these test environments? Thanks in advance Rick Busche Evans Sutherland Salt Lake City, Utah rbus...@es.com
EMI vrs Chronic Fatique
One of our software engineers has expressed a concern that EMI might be causing his/her condition of chronic fatigue. From what I have read, the only concern might be ergonomic factors rather than radiation. Can someone suggest any published material (hopefully on the Internet) which I can use to alleviate this concern for radiation? I really hate to have our facility people buying the various screen shields and other devices which I believe border on Voodoo. Thanks in advance. Rick Busche Evans Sutherland Salt Lake City Utah rbus...@es.com
For Utah safety and EMI professionals
My apologies for posting this to the entire net, but we would like to identify all product safety and EMI professionals in the Salt Lake City area (or Utah) and create an avenue for communication. If you would like to be included in a SLC/Utah Safety and EMC mailing list, please send your e-mail address to Rick Busche or Kaan Gregersen: rbus...@es.com kgreger...@harman-dod.com.
Bonding of structures
I have a projector assembly which is essentially a large metal structure (frame) with a metal projector platform which swivels for purposes of maintenance. The structure is painted steel, with pressed in bronze bushings at all motion points each of which have been measured at significantly less than 0.10 ohms. Arguably, there is no guarantee that these structures will remain bonded at these levels over time and bonding wires (braid, with crimped ring lugs) have been added across the pivot points. These wires are secured to the structure using a toothed washer and screw. The intent of the toothed washer is to bight through the paint to ensure conductivity. My customer's safety officer (in Europe) is now insisting that the paint must be ground off to bare metal and coated with Zinc paint prior to affixing the lug to the structure. I am concerned that this is an excessive requirement. It has been my understanding that the toothed washer (and the screw for that matter) creates a gas tight connection which is acceptable for all bonding requirements. I would be interested in hearing from the group regarding this bonding issue. I can find no standard or specification which disallows this biting washer or requires Zinc paint. Any comments would be appreciated. Rick Busche rbus...@es.com
[no subject]
I am looking for a copy of EN 50027 Crimping Standards. Can someone suggest a local source where I might be able to purchase this document? Thanks in advance Rick Busche rbus...@es.com
Product Safety Assistance
Evans Sutherland is looking for someone to provide product safety assistance on a project in the Dallas, Texas area. We are looking for someone to consult and coordinate the safety submittal of an entertainment product to UL 22, or CSA C22.2 No. 1-94 or the equivalent International safety specification. Our goal is to have the device NRTL qualified with the safety data being used for the CE mark in accordance with the International directives. This project requires someone familiar with electro-mechanical safety issues. If you are interested, please contact: Rick Busche Evans Sutherland 600 Komas Drive Salt Lake City, Utah 84158 or rbus...@es.com Phone (801) 588-7185 Fax (801) 588-4530
RE: Regulatory compliance training for students
In addition, I'll bet that if you were to survey the industry, there would be a high percentage of Regulatory Engineers who have Associate Engineering degrees or degrees other than EE. Historically, it has been my observation that product safety is not necessarily a well recognized engineering discipline, and while I enjoy it, several engineers have commented that they would rather do digital or analog design than safety. Just my $0.02 Rick Busche rbus...@es.com -- From: COLON KELLY[SMTP:col...@symbol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 1997 12:27 PM To:gabriel_...@notesgw.hns.com Cc:emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Regulatory compliance training for students Gabriel- I agree with your position that regulatory work is not done only those with an associate's degree (I personally have a BSEE as do many of my colleagues). It should be noted that even though UL will not grant the title of Project Engineer to someone without a bachelor in engineering, the Project Engineer and the Engineering Associate (one with an associate's degree) will perform the same type of project evaluations. Just my two cents worth. Regards, Kelly Colon Kelly Colon Regulatory Engineer Regulatory Engineering Symbol Technologies, Inc. phone: 516 738 3480 fax: 516 738 3318 e-mail: col...@symbol.com The above opinions are entirely my own!
RE: Measuring AC
Max Your idea should work. On the old PS300/390 we did a similar thing to extract a 50/60hz clock signal. A VDE opto-isolator is critical to this design however. -- From: Max[SMTP:mkel...@chekov.corp.es.com] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 1997 9:21 AM To:emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Measuring AC Does anyone know of a good method (or have any ideas) of how I could reduce line voltage down to low (DC) levels in order to measure the line voltage with an AD converter. Using a transformer is obviously the easiest way and probably provides the least potential problems with safety agencies. But transformers are not (I don't think) terribly accurate and they are rather bulky even in this sort of application. What are the safety implications, for example, of just rectifying and filtering the voltage and running it through a voltage divider? Thanks, Max Kelson mkel...@es.com
