Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Dave Engvall wrote: > >>Hi Jon, >> >>Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets >>sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. > > > Many years ago, we had a DEA spray etcher at the tv station where I got > started back in the early 60's. You could write notes in the 10x10 boxes of > the gfx background we used to do our layouts on, and which got reduced 4x > before the board was exposed. With that etcher, it was a 3 to 5 minute job > as it sprayed both sides of the board at the same time, and you could still > read the notes very clearly in the copper when done. I have never rocked a > pyrex cake pan and got anywhere near that sort of precision results since. > Right, I built my own spray etcher years ago, with a pump machined all out of Plexiglas. I used a DC motor on top, which had a vertical shaft down through the etchant to drive the pump, so there were no rotating seals. I discovered that FeCl2 would turn nylon screws brittle with a 2 minute exposure and the heads would start popping off! it had a lot of problems, mostly getting the etchant hot. I eventually pulled a complete and working Kepro spray etcher out of the dumpster at work. Just one little dab of JB Weld on a leaky spot and it works beautifully. it has a heater in a Titanium tube in the bottom. I put a couple bricks in it to reduce the volume of etchant required to fill the sump. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Dave Engvall wrote: >Hi Jon, > >Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets >sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. Many years ago, we had a DEA spray etcher at the tv station where I got started back in the early 60's. You could write notes in the 10x10 boxes of the gfx background we used to do our layouts on, and which got reduced 4x before the board was exposed. With that etcher, it was a 3 to 5 minute job as it sprayed both sides of the board at the same time, and you could still read the notes very clearly in the copper when done. I have never rocked a pyrex cake pan and got anywhere near that sort of precision results since. >I guess I'm pretty casual about solvents having worked with benzene >above the permissible limit for several weeks each year. Anytime you >can smell benzene you are above the 8 hour limit. We used benzene for >an extractant in the analysis of alpha and beta acids in hops (the >bittering component). After years of using benzene the procedure >changed to toluene which is about 10 times less toxic. If these and >other chemicals were as dangerous as some people think I would have >been dead long ago. I think I'm still here. ;-) I know the feeling, Dave. I have litterally swam in both pcb's and 2-4-t's of various formulations back in the 50's through the later 70's. Now 73, with sugar, and that seems to be the major effect, all that other stuff is a question to me. About the only thing I've tried to steer clear of is methyl chloride since it can write a fini to your liver & kidneys if abused. >Dave > >On Dec 25, 2007, at 9:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >> Kirk Wallace wrote: >>> KPR? >>> >>> Kentucky Paranormal Research >>> Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board >> >> Kodak Photo Resist, a Xylene-based organic photo resist that is >> hardened by exposure to UV light. It is very "old school" and >> not only requires nasty chemicals, but is quite fragile. The >> aqueous-based developer for Riston photo resist is washing soda, >> and the stripper is a weak lye solution, I get both on my hands >> without harm. >> >> Jon >> >> -- >> --- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) When you say that you agree to a thing in principle, you mean that you have not the slightest intention of carrying it out in practice. -- Otto Von Bismarck - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 23:18 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Same here, but then again, the 400 Hz is the maximum needed to get the > full analog voltage. So no problem here. > > The C11 board really needs a frequency, the pulse width is of very > little influence on the voltage. > ... snip It is frequency, sort of. For 10Hz a short pulse comes out every 100ms. For 100Hz, every 10ms and so on up to 10kHz. You get this: __-__-_ , ___-___-___-_ , _-_-_-_- Instead of: __-__-- , __--__--__--_ , _-_-_-_- Just because you have something that works doesn't mean it can't be broken :) -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Same here, but then again, the 400 Hz is the maximum needed to get the full analog voltage. So no problem here. The C11 board really needs a frequency, the pulse width is of very little influence on the voltage. >>> Geert >> I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest >> frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only >> way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. > > I tried a pwmgen setup using the PDM mode, which I guess isn't really a > mode but a setting. Apparently, pwmgen mixes both PWM and PDM in the > same signal. The man page indicates that for pwmgen.N.pwm-freq "A value > of zero produces Pulse Density Modulation instead of Pulse Width > Modulation". I found that for my settings a 50% input produced the > highest frequency of 10kHz before the pulses started running together. > For the C11, I don't know if it would interpret a short on pulse with a > long off time the same as a frequency with equal on and off periods. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Lester, This is indeed a solution. Thanks for the link. Lester Caine wrote: > http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf > Check out page 7. > The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills > is > at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit > of > the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the > pot, > but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it > would go. > > The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V > to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with > a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 12:28 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 20:21 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > > Kirk, > > > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, ... snip > > > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > > > > > > > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this > > is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. > > > > Geert > > I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest > frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only > way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. I tried a pwmgen setup using the PDM mode, which I guess isn't really a mode but a setting. Apparently, pwmgen mixes both PWM and PDM in the same signal. The man page indicates that for pwmgen.N.pwm-freq "A value of zero produces Pulse Density Modulation instead of Pulse Width Modulation". I found that for my settings a 50% input produced the highest frequency of 10kHz before the pulses started running together. For the C11, I don't know if it would interpret a short on pulse with a long off time the same as a frequency with equal on and off periods. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Remote GUI
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 23:22 +0200, Alex Joni wrote: > Hi all, > > I just managed to get AXIS to run remotely as a GUI. > In order to do that I had to modify AXIS a bit, but I checked the changes > into CVS. ... snip > Regards, > Alex Cool. Thanks. Another thing to play with. I hope the changes were worth the effort. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 21:07 +, Lester Caine wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: > >> Geert De Pecker wrote: > >>> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC ... snip > > How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. > > http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf > Check out page 7. > The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills > is > at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit > of > the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the > pot, > but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it > would go. > > The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V > to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with > a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. Thanks for the information. Does that mean there is a high common mode voltage (AC or DC) on the two pins next to the DC converter? Is the motor controller like the speed controllers for universal motors, or Do you have any keywords to search on the type of motor controller this is? -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Remote GUI
Hi all, I just managed to get AXIS to run remotely as a GUI. In order to do that I had to modify AXIS a bit, but I checked the changes into CVS. Here's the steps I did to get it to run: 1. created a new folder in ~/emc2/configs/ called 'axis-remote' 2. copied client.nml, a sample ini, var and tbl to that dir 3. edited client.nml (changed the IP to match my remote emc2 machine) 4. edited the ini file (removed all hal files references, especially the POSTGUI_HALFILE) 5. run axis: axis -ini foo.ini (this assumes axis is installed into the proper place) or /path/to/rip-emc2/bin/axis -ini foo.ini In order to make it work ok, you would have to nfsmount or smbmount the folder for the config and for the nc_files from the server machine to the remote machine. This is because at the moment the gui's acces some stuff directly (like the var file), I hope that we will change that in the future. For the programs dir, I'm not sure what we can do, I think the mounted dir is the best solution (it takes care of a lot of issues, like procedures in different files, and all kinds of crazy things :). Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: "Kirk Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Remote GUI > On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 09:23 -0600, Jeff Epler wrote: >> I don't know of anyone running AXIS remotely; I've never done it. >> >> AXIS assumes that it can create HAL pins and access (read) the var file >> from the filesystem. This may be causing problems. >> >> Look on the terminal for any errors AXIS prints. >> >> Jeff > > I need more data on "AXIS assumes that it can create HAL pins". Do have > any links or keywords? Thanks. > > -- > Kirk Wallace (California, USA > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ > Hardinge HNC lathe, > Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, > Zubal lathe conversion pending) > > > - > SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: >> Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC >>> board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look >>> out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to >>> find some room to put this one in :-) >> Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board >> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf >> It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. > > Lester, > > I don't have one of these boards, so I am just being curious. Is this > DC-DC module intended to fill the +12V supply requirement or is it in > addition to? This is were it goes: > > http://cnc4pc.com/images/C11R3_5.jpg > > ? > > How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_SIEG_X3_Electrical%20storybook.pdf Check out page 7. The thing to remember here is that the motor control pot on the Asian mills is at mains potential, so you need a totally isolated supply to drive that bit of the circuit. The boards I've played with a have a reasonable range on the pot, but I've only dropped to +9V from about 11V did not check how much further it would go. The NEW boards from cnc4pc don't have the +12V requirement on board, so a +5V to +12V module may be required. The on board 12V relay has been replaced with a 5V one so the whole board just runs off 5V now. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 20:21 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > Kirk, > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, > > one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if > > you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should > > have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a > > few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline > > speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing > > much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz > > We need a separate supply: the analog voltage controller on the C11 is > isolated from the other circuitry because in the case of the sherline, > the speed control voltage is connected to the live mains. > > > (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the > > siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are > > running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get > > into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP > > needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components > > in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the > > base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to > > make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought > > comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you > > could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I > > think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to > > have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I > > suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, > > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > > > > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this > is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. > > Geert I checked the siggen setup on my test system and 480Hz was the highest frequency I could get. Running in the base thread seems to be the only way to get a decent frequency out. Well, now I know. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Kirk, > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, > one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if > you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should > have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a > few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline > speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing > much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz We need a separate supply: the analog voltage controller on the C11 is isolated from the other circuitry because in the case of the sherline, the speed control voltage is connected to the live mains. > (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the > siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are > running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get > into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP > needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components > in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the > base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to > make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought > comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you > could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I > think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to > have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I > suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, > if I had enough money, I'd be rich. > At 400Hz I get the max voltage out of the analog voltage part. So this is ok. I'll try with stepgen just to know if this works. Geert - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 17:22 +, Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: > > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > > find some room to put this one in :-) > Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf > It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. Lester, I don't have one of these boards, so I am just being curious. Is this DC-DC module intended to fill the +12V supply requirement or is it in addition to? This is were it goes: http://cnc4pc.com/images/C11R3_5.jpg ? How much adjustment will the potentiometer give? Thanks. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Hi Jon, Riston sounds like better stuff and easier to use. I think one gets sharper etching if the etchant is pumped over the foil. I guess I'm pretty casual about solvents having worked with benzene above the permissible limit for several weeks each year. Anytime you can smell benzene you are above the 8 hour limit. We used benzene for an extractant in the analysis of alpha and beta acids in hops (the bittering component). After years of using benzene the procedure changed to toluene which is about 10 times less toxic. If these and other chemicals were as dangerous as some people think I would have been dead long ago. I think I'm still here. ;-) Dave On Dec 25, 2007, at 9:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Kirk Wallace wrote: >> KPR? >> >> Kentucky Paranormal Research >> Kawartha Pine Ridge District Public School Board > Kodak Photo Resist, a Xylene-based organic photo resist that is > hardened by exposure to UV light. It is very "old school" and > not only requires nasty chemicals, but is quite fragile. The > aqueous-based developer for Riston photo resist is washing soda, > and the stripper is a weak lye solution, I get both on my hands > without harm. > > Jon > > -- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
Geert De Pecker wrote: > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > find some room to put this one in :-) Don't need much space - this fits neatly on the end of the board http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/78477.pdf It's a pity that there is not a space for it actually on the board. > Lester Caine wrote: >> Geert De Pecker wrote: >>> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max >>> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer >>> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to >>> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see >>> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. >>> >>> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. >> You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC >> converter >> to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. >> Sounds as if you are nearly there though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 11:04 +0100, Geert De Pecker wrote: > I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC > board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look > out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to > find some room to put this one in :-) > > Lester Caine wrote: > > Geert De Pecker wrote: > >> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max > >> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer > >> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to > >> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see > >> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. > >> > >> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle > >> speed. > > > > You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC > > converter > > to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. > > Sounds as if you are nearly there though. > > > The C11 document specifies three power supplies. One computer side +5V, one CNC side +5V @ 2A and One CNC side +12V @ 300mA. I would think if you have satisfied these specifications, you should be okay. 12V should have enough headroom to regulate to 10 V and the VFD should only draw a few milliamperes at worst. Ops I forgot, you are going into the Sherline speed control, so I don't know what it draws. It shouldn't be drawing much anyway. You may want to make sure you are getting at least 22kHz (24kHz - ~10%) into the C11. You could setup HALscope to look at the siggen output and count the rising edges over a time period. If you are running siggen in the servo thread, my guess is that, you will only get into the 2kHz range. With my DAC project, I have just run into "FP needed" errors and computer lockups while trying to run HAL components in the base thread, so I need to learn more about what will run in the base thread. pwmgen will, but I don't know enough to guess at how to make it act like a variable frequency pulse generator. Another thought comes to mind. If you are only getting 2kHz out of siggen then maybe you could step up the frequency with a PLL. I have never used a PLL, but I think this is what they are supposed to do. Ideally, it would be nice to have a pulse generator HAL component. With the proper knowledge, I suppose it would not be too difficult to make, but that is like saying, if I had enough money, I'd be rich. -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC configuration issues
Jeff,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I need some time to digest your information that I have just read but I do
not have any doubt that you must be right and I still have a lot to learn
about the internal "mechanics" of EMC and HAL .
However, based on actual practical results, I would like to add the
following comments:
- Yes, I just changed the indicated values in "setp stepgen.0.steplen" and
"setp stepgen.0.stepspace". All other parameters were not changed
- As mentioned, I tested FROM stepconf all kind of configurations and
timings for len, space and invert without any improvement
- This time, to avoid the .hal file being re-written by stepconf, I changed
the parameters by hand and tested the machine directly from EMC and OUTSIDE
stepconf. Is there any posibility that the problem is from inside stepconf
when testing axis? Is just a question.
- To check this last point, I will once again use stepconf to configure the
system ant I will test it from EMC and not from stepconf. I will keep you
aware of results.
I do not think (but I may be wrong), that the reason for the problem are
related to the other posibilities you mention. As commented I have used two
different computers with axactly the same results and the fact is that now
both are working perfectly from EMC. To be honest, the only issue I have at
the moment is that if I try to use a too much high speed, I get an error
message saying "joint # following error", wich is resolved by adjustin the
speed. Again, (sorry about this), I do not understand the "joint" concept. I
have been working for long time with "axis" and signals (in and out) but not
with "joints".
Thanks for your patience and your time.
Best regards
Jesus
- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Epler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EMC configuration issues
On Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 08:30:09PM +0100, Jesús Bas wrote:
> - No matter what numbers you put in stepconf for steplen, step space,
> dirhold and dirsetup, the generated .hal file reflect wrong data.
I believe that the values written by stepconf are exactly what I
intended. Let me explain how stepconf arrives at each figure in
question.
> In my case, the following requested numbers were (I use Gecko drives):
>
> - steplen 4000
> - stepspace 500
> - dirhold 2
> - dirsetup 1000
(not shown: you must have entered a "latency test result" of 3)
> and the corresponding lines in the generated .hal file is allways (no
> matter what numbers you input):
>
> - setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
> - setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
> - setp stepgen.0.dirhold 5
> - setp stepgen.0.dirsetup 31000
(not shown: setp parport.0.reset-time 4000)
(not shown: inifile BASE_PERIOD of at least 39500)
BASE_PERIOD 39500
This is at least as big as machine latency + reset_time + 5000
but may be a larger value if your step rate is low.
reset-time 4000
this is the step length you entered in stepconf. After the step
"1" bit is written to the parport, it is reset back to "0" after
at least 4000ns has passed (but maybe longer)
steplen 1
this means "the shortest step length possible". the actual
minimum length of the pulse on the parport is 4000ns, defined by
parport.0.reset-time
stepspace 0
this means that steps are allowed in subsequent base_periods
("doublestep"). The actual minimum length of the space on the
parport is defined by
BASE_PERIOD - machine latency - reset-time - overhead
where "overhead" is any time above and beyond the minimum
reset-time that the step pulse is "high", plus any other
variations (such as cache misses) that make the time between one
"reset" and the subsequent "write" (in the next base-thread
invocation) vary. It is assumed that this is less than 5000ns
in all cases, but has only been measured on a few machines.
dirhold 5
dirsetup 31000
these are the dirhold and dirsetup values you entered, plus the
latency test result you entered.
Perhaps someone will point out an error in these calculations, but for
now I simply cannot see it.
Other possibilities are:
* The signal path from your PC to the gecko has other
characteristics (e.g., weak drive stringth in the parport,
additional external signal conditioning) that lead to increased
rise/fall time for signals and require higher step length and
space in emc
* another error in your configuration, such as an incorrect "invert"
on a step output pin
* there is a (yet unknown) bug in the hal_parport driver that causes
the step output bit to be reset too early (this is based on CPU
speed, so if linux misdetects your CPU that could also be the
cause)
* the arbitrary "max overhead" value of 5000ns is not appropriate
Re: [Emc-users] G-code subroutines
On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Kenneth Lerman wrote: >Subroutines may CALL one another, but may not be defined within another. > >So... > >o100 sub > >o100 endsub > >o200 sub > >o200 endsub > >is legal. > > >o100 sub >o200 sub >... >o200 endsub >o100 endsub > >is NOT legal (subroutine declarations may not be nested). > >Ken Many thanks Kenneth, that not so subtle difference also escaped me when I last attempted that. But I did find that o400 sub call o100 call o200 o400 endsub was apparently legal if you kept your variable numbers all separated properly. This part could stand some more emphasis in the wiki pages. Like making it an SOP. :) Thanks, and I hope Santa was good to all of you. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Satire does not look pretty upon a tombstone. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC configuration issues
On Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 08:30:09PM +0100, Jesús Bas wrote:
> - No matter what numbers you put in stepconf for steplen, step space,
> dirhold and dirsetup, the generated .hal file reflect wrong data.
I believe that the values written by stepconf are exactly what I
intended. Let me explain how stepconf arrives at each figure in
question.
> In my case, the following requested numbers were (I use Gecko drives):
>
> - steplen 4000
> - stepspace 500
> - dirhold 2
> - dirsetup 1000
(not shown: you must have entered a "latency test result" of 3)
> and the corresponding lines in the generated .hal file is allways (no
> matter what numbers you input):
>
> - setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
> - setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
> - setp stepgen.0.dirhold 5
> - setp stepgen.0.dirsetup 31000
(not shown: setp parport.0.reset-time 4000)
(not shown: inifile BASE_PERIOD of at least 39500)
BASE_PERIOD 39500
This is at least as big as machine latency + reset_time + 5000
but may be a larger value if your step rate is low.
reset-time 4000
this is the step length you entered in stepconf. After the step
"1" bit is written to the parport, it is reset back to "0" after
at least 4000ns has passed (but maybe longer)
steplen 1
this means "the shortest step length possible". the actual
minimum length of the pulse on the parport is 4000ns, defined by
parport.0.reset-time
stepspace 0
this means that steps are allowed in subsequent base_periods
("doublestep"). The actual minimum length of the space on the
parport is defined by
BASE_PERIOD - machine latency - reset-time - overhead
where "overhead" is any time above and beyond the minimum
reset-time that the step pulse is "high", plus any other
variations (such as cache misses) that make the time between one
"reset" and the subsequent "write" (in the next base-thread
invocation) vary. It is assumed that this is less than 5000ns
in all cases, but has only been measured on a few machines.
dirhold 5
dirsetup 31000
these are the dirhold and dirsetup values you entered, plus the
latency test result you entered.
Perhaps someone will point out an error in these calculations, but for
now I simply cannot see it.
Other possibilities are:
* The signal path from your PC to the gecko has other
characteristics (e.g., weak drive stringth in the parport,
additional external signal conditioning) that lead to increased
rise/fall time for signals and require higher step length and
space in emc
* another error in your configuration, such as an incorrect "invert"
on a step output pin
* there is a (yet unknown) bug in the hal_parport driver that causes
the step output bit to be reset too early (this is based on CPU
speed, so if linux misdetects your CPU that could also be the
cause)
* the arbitrary "max overhead" value of 5000ns is not appropriate
for all machines
If the *only* change you made was to modify the inifile stepspace to
a nonzero value, then the only effect is to increase the step space by
approximately one base-period--e.g., from 500ns minimum to 4ns
minimum. The step pulse will still be short (as short as 4000ns) unless
you made other changes (e.g., remove the "setp parport.0.pin-##-reset 1"
lines, or the "addf parport.0.reset base-thread" line)
Jeff
-
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Re: [Emc-users] G-code subroutines
Subroutines may CALL one another, but may not be defined within another. So... o100 sub o100 endsub o200 sub o200 endsub is legal. o100 sub o200 sub ... o200 endsub o100 endsub is NOT legal (subroutine declarations may not be nested). Ken - Original Message - From: "Ian Wright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: [Emc-users] G-code subroutines > Hi, > > I'm completely confused with G-code subroutines or, more particularly > with the possibilities of nesting them. What I am trying to achieve - > and failing miseably - is to write a generic script which will > cylindrically grind a shaft to several diameters and each of different > lengths. I want to be able to enter into a set of variables the various > diameters and lengths and have the script sort out the rotations of my > 'A' axis and step the grinding wheel along the right number of times to > get the full length (I'm only at roughing cut stage - I haven't even > considered a finishing cut yet). So, I can set the starting > diameter, ending diameter and depth of cut and work out the number of > turns of A necessary and put that in a subroutine (maybe called 'cut' or > something similar). However, I next want to move the grinding wheel > along and repeat the same cut several times to achieve the full length > (the grinding wheel being less in width than the cut length). This would > seem like another subroutine doing a 'while less than' loop but it then > wants to call the first subroutine to make the cuts. From the > documentation the WIKI says that:- > >* Subroutine declarations may NOT be nested. >* Subroutines may be called anywhere (but must be declared before > they are called. They may be called from other subroutines, and > may be called recursively if it makes sense. >* while and if may be nested. They may not overlap without nesting. > > I don't think I fully understand this - can I call one subroutine from > within another or not?? If not, how could I achieve what I want to? > Thanks, > > -- > Best wishes for whatever your holiday season is and my good wishes for a > peaceful and prosperous new year, > > Ian > > Ian W. Wright > Sheffield UK > > "The difference between theory and practice is much smaller in theory than > in practice..." > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] G-code subroutines
Hi, I'm completely confused with G-code subroutines or, more particularly with the possibilities of nesting them. What I am trying to achieve - and failing miseably - is to write a generic script which will cylindrically grind a shaft to several diameters and each of different lengths. I want to be able to enter into a set of variables the various diameters and lengths and have the script sort out the rotations of my 'A' axis and step the grinding wheel along the right number of times to get the full length (I'm only at roughing cut stage - I haven't even considered a finishing cut yet). So, I can set the starting diameter, ending diameter and depth of cut and work out the number of turns of A necessary and put that in a subroutine (maybe called 'cut' or something similar). However, I next want to move the grinding wheel along and repeat the same cut several times to achieve the full length (the grinding wheel being less in width than the cut length). This would seem like another subroutine doing a 'while less than' loop but it then wants to call the first subroutine to make the cuts. From the documentation the WIKI says that:- * Subroutine declarations may NOT be nested. * Subroutines may be called anywhere (but must be declared before they are called. They may be called from other subroutines, and may be called recursively if it makes sense. * while and if may be nested. They may not overlap without nesting. I don't think I fully understand this - can I call one subroutine from within another or not?? If not, how could I achieve what I want to? Thanks, -- Best wishes for whatever your holiday season is and my good wishes for a peaceful and prosperous new year, Ian Ian W. Wright Sheffield UK "The difference between theory and practice is much smaller in theory than in practice..." - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Emc-users Digest, Vol 20, Issue 44
On 25 Dec 2007 at 16:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk, At this time there would not be any real time information needed that it why I thought of the usb port. > > I understand that the usb port can > > handle analog 0-5v inputs from a joystick. > > I don't know much about USB, but it seems USB is not supported in EMC > for real time performance reasons. > What I want to display in Axis is the arc voltage from my plasma torch. It ranges from 0 to 250vac. If I could get real time measurements then perhaps that could be used to control the Z axis but for now I'd just like to display it. Arc current would be nice too now that your thinking... > > I have no idea what signal you are dealing with, but if it can be > converted to a signal between 0 and 5 Volts DC, then the rest is > pretty much done. The scale HAL component is used to scale the 100% > input value from the ADC, which for the LTC1286 is 12 bits = 0xFFF = > 4095, to the value that EMC will understand as a 100% value. > > Can you supply more information on what kind signal you are trying to > measure, how it's value should affect the system, and the machine you > are working on? > > Now that you got me thinking, it would be nice to measure spindle and > axis load/current in EMC -- maybe air pressure and temperature too. Thanks John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Stepgen for Spindle speed control
On the side: this was my first experiment with hal. Allow me to congratulate the developers of emc. Nice job and we came a long way from the early days with all the hassle to install. :-) Thanks again. Would using stepgen be a solution instead of using siggen and scale? The square wave would then be outputted in the base thread and be as such nicer looking. I also assume it would be simpler. With siggen: loadrt siggen loadrt scale loadrt conv_float_u32 loadrt conv_u32_bit addf conv-float-u32.0 servo-thread addf conv-u32-bit.0 servo-thread setp scale.0.in 0.0 setp scale.0.gain 0.15 setp scale.0.offset 0.0 addf scale.0 servo-thread setp siggen.0.offset 0.5 setp siggen.0.amplitude 0.5 addf siggen.0.update servo-thread net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => scale.0.in net spindle-freq <= scale.0.out => siggen.0.frequency net spindle-fl2int <= siggen.0.square => conv-float-u32.0.in net spindle-int2bit <= conv-float-u32.0.out => conv-u32-bit.0.in net spindle-out <= conv-u32-bit.0.out net spindle-out => parport.0.pin-14-out Geert De Pecker wrote: > Kirk, > > You pointed me in the right direction. With siggen and scale, I was able > to produce a frequency from the spindle control. I posted the mill.ini and > mill.hal on http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html. > > The signal isn't very stable because I had to put it in the servo-thread > (probably needed because of the floating point) and the original 1msec > period of this on 400Hz is on the low side. > > Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max > input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer > and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to > the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see > what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. > > Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. > > Thanks again for pointing this out, > > Geert > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
I'm thinking of a 100 line encoder. Wouldn't require too much resolution. Tested from the rhino cad program and output seems very acceptable. But I assume for more then 200 line, it could be worse. Geert ben lipkowitz wrote: > On Mon, 24 Dec 2007, Geert De Pecker wrote: > >> To do threading on the lathe is the end goal. I'm still in the >> development phase for the encoder bit. Want to make it myself >> (see part of drawing at http://users.skynet.be/gedp/FILES/index.html). > > Geert, >There are some .ps files floating around that can be used to print your > own optical encoders, and since postscript is a programming language they > are relatively easily modified to do weird stuff such as in > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps > > however i find postscript can be hard to understand sometimes, so i > rewrote it in python: > http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/draw_encoder.py > > hope this proves useful to someone >-fenn > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed control with cnc4pc board
I probably wrongly assumed that the voltage should come from the KBIC board. As you say, this would indeed be a flexible solution. Will look out from such a converter. My controller case is almost full, have to find some room to put this one in :-) Lester Caine wrote: > Geert De Pecker wrote: >> Next problem: the analog voltage on the C11 board doesn't go to the max >> input voltage. I measured the voltage across the sherline potentiometer >> and it is 9.2 volts. With the bench supply set to 9.2 and attached to >> the analog voltage of the board, the max output is 8.2 volts. I'll see >> what is gives when I try ot on the sherline speed control. >> >> Otherwise, the output voltage is very linear with the ordered spindle speed. > > You will need a higher isolated supply. I use a little 12v to 12V DC > converter > to give the isolated supply, and just limit the range of the input. > Sounds as if you are nearly there though. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
