Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Gregg Eshelman]

A friend had a 1990's Volvo, the first of the ones with sharper edges and 
corners. He described the wiring insulation as 'air soluble' and carried 
several spools of various color wire, cutters, shrink tube and a butane 
soldering iron in the trunk for repairs.


 
  From: BRIAN GLACKIN <glackin.br...@gmail.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
   
A note on German wiring from the early 1990's.  At that time the Green
Party came in and pushed fro higher recycling.  Many manufacturers went
with a higher recycled content in their wire insulation to meet the edict.
Mercedes Benz was one of the earliest hit by this change.  Harness in the
W124 line of vehicles in 1993-1995, were failing after 2 years in service.
The recycled content made the covering brittle with exposure to heat in the
near term and generally shorter lifetimes.  Sounds like this hit machine
parts as well from that era.

   
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Peter Blodow]

It wasn't the recycling, but certain softening compounds in PVC were 
suspected to cause cancer and reduced by law. This war aimed at 
children's toys and other playstuff, but hit wire insulation as well 
(though nobody would use wire insulation for a lolly). Furthermore, 
machine oil and above all cooling compounds would dissolve and remove 
the new softeners more readily than the old ones, leaving hard PVC. Same 
problem is with rubber insulation, too. There are oilproof cables, 
though, Oelflex brand (made by Lapp Cables) for instance.
Peter

Am 29.02.2016 14:25, schrieb BRIAN GLACKIN:
> A note on German wiring from the early 1990's.  At that time the Green
> Party came in and pushed fro higher recycling.  Many manufacturers went
> with a higher recycled content in their wire insulation to meet the edict.
> Mercedes Benz was one of the earliest hit by this change.  Harness in the
> W124 line of vehicles in 1993-1995, were failing after 2 years in service.
> The recycled content made the covering brittle with exposure to heat in the
> near term and generally shorter lifetimes.  Sounds like this hit machine
> parts as well from that era.
>
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 February 2016 08:51:03 Rick Lair wrote:

> Aaaa, that makes sense then,
>
> Rick
>
I might throw in another observation I first made in the 1970's when CB 
radios from the J.A.Pan Co. started flooding the market.

Any wire of asian origin, which has a bright red insulation, bordering on 
a hint of magenta coloration, is a 3 to 5 year wire at best, and that 
category INCLUDES those bright red sata cables we use in our computers 
today.

So it you start having drive troubles, put a tail on the messages file, 
and take a pencil or longer dowel and move the drive cable(s) around.  
If the log explodes with disconnect/reset messages, its time to replace 
those cables but not with more red ones. Tan, yellow, blue or black is 
fine, but get rid of the red ones.  End of problem for many years.

Back in the years I was dealing with the CB radios as a service tech, 
mike cables were the usual suspect, and most makers used the red wire in 
the cable as a transmit trigger.  Transmission would stop, or get 
extremely broken up, so I'd pull the covers off the connector & check 
continuity, and it was always the red wire that was broken even if it 
didn't look broken.  You could wiggle it and find the bad connection was 
usually inside the insulation, either in the strain relief gripper as it 
exited the mike, or just as often, in the 4 pin connector where it 
hooked to the radio, also at the point of the strain relief clamp.  
Cutting the jacket back past that point about an inch, then restripping 
the cable to resolder it back together, usually found nothing but a 
copper colored dust inside the red wire, no wire left in it to strip!

We started ordering mike cable replacements, but had a hell of a time 
convincing the suppliers that we wanted ONLY american made cables, 
because the japanese made cables they could sell us for 1/3rd the cost 
of the american cable, were more of the same crap we were replacing.  
And Norfolk Two-way Radio had a reputation to up hold as we were famous 
from coast to coast among the truckers as THE place to get your radio 
fixed right.  And I was the bench tech doing those repairs on the side, 
making a 14 hour day out of keeping KXNE-TV 19 on the air for the 
Nebraska ETV Commission with about 6 hours in the middle of the day 
doing the radio work.  There's something it that hot red dye that 
doesn't bode well for copper, oxidizing it into dust eventually.

If you have good color vision, that particular plastic dye stands out 
like a flashing red warning light to the experienced tech, and I just 
wrote 4k of text to say that. :( When you see it, you ARE looking at 
Trouble with a capital T.

So I'll snip the rest.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

Aaaa, that makes sense then,

Rick




On 2/29/2016 8:25 AM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
> A note on German wiring from the early 1990's.  At that time the Green
> Party came in and pushed fro higher recycling.  Many manufacturers went
> with a higher recycled content in their wire insulation to meet the edict.
> Mercedes Benz was one of the earliest hit by this change.  Harness in the
> W124 line of vehicles in 1993-1995, were failing after 2 years in service.
> The recycled content made the covering brittle with exposure to heat in the
> near term and generally shorter lifetimes.  Sounds like this hit machine
> parts as well from that era.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2016 8:04 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>>> The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to
>>> the screw with the proper sized balls.
>>> Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want
>>> to take them apart unless it is necessary.
>>> You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do
>>> that in the US.
>>> I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a
>>> new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also
>>> needs help.
>>> So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be
>>> reconditioned as a set.
>>> I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from
>>> Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it
>>> was about half what a new
>>> set would have cost.
>> Some of them have every other ball slightly smaller as a spacer to
>> reduce turning friction. Unfortunately that also cuts load capacity.
>> What some rebuilders do is replace all the balls with ones of the full
>> size, or if the screw has to be ground more than usual they'll install
>> larger than original balls.
>>
>> If you have a screw with even wear along its length and a willingness to
>> experiment, and precise way to measure ball diameter, you can buy new
>> balls on eBay real cheap. Choose some just a smidge larger than what was
>> in it and see if the screw tightens up, without binding.
>>
>> There's probably some formula to select the ball size required based on
>> measuring backlash etc, but the balls are cheap enough to buy more than
>> one size.
>>
>> What I'd like to see is a precision and accuracy test of a new ground
>> ball screw VS a high grade rolled ball screw VS a rebuilt with full
>> grind rolled ball screw.
>>
>>
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>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

A note on German wiring from the early 1990's.  At that time the Green
Party came in and pushed fro higher recycling.  Many manufacturers went
with a higher recycled content in their wire insulation to meet the edict.
Mercedes Benz was one of the earliest hit by this change.  Harness in the
W124 line of vehicles in 1993-1995, were failing after 2 years in service.
The recycled content made the covering brittle with exposure to heat in the
near term and generally shorter lifetimes.  Sounds like this hit machine
parts as well from that era.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> On 2/27/2016 8:04 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to
> > the screw with the proper sized balls.
> > Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want
> > to take them apart unless it is necessary.
> > You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do
> > that in the US.
> > I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a
> > new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also
> > needs help.
> > So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be
> > reconditioned as a set.
> > I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from
> > Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it
> > was about half what a new
> > set would have cost.
>
> Some of them have every other ball slightly smaller as a spacer to
> reduce turning friction. Unfortunately that also cuts load capacity.
> What some rebuilders do is replace all the balls with ones of the full
> size, or if the screw has to be ground more than usual they'll install
> larger than original balls.
>
> If you have a screw with even wear along its length and a willingness to
> experiment, and precise way to measure ball diameter, you can buy new
> balls on eBay real cheap. Choose some just a smidge larger than what was
> in it and see if the screw tightens up, without binding.
>
> There's probably some formula to select the ball size required based on
> measuring backlash etc, but the balls are cheap enough to buy more than
> one size.
>
> What I'd like to see is a precision and accuracy test of a new ground
> ball screw VS a high grade rolled ball screw VS a rebuilt with full
> grind rolled ball screw.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 2/27/2016 8:04 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to
> the screw with the proper sized balls.
> Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want
> to take them apart unless it is necessary.
> You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do
> that in the US.
> I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a
> new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also
> needs help.
> So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be
> reconditioned as a set.
> I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from
> Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it
> was about half what a new
> set would have cost.

Some of them have every other ball slightly smaller as a spacer to 
reduce turning friction. Unfortunately that also cuts load capacity. 
What some rebuilders do is replace all the balls with ones of the full 
size, or if the screw has to be ground more than usual they'll install 
larger than original balls.

If you have a screw with even wear along its length and a willingness to 
experiment, and precise way to measure ball diameter, you can buy new 
balls on eBay real cheap. Choose some just a smidge larger than what was 
in it and see if the screw tightens up, without binding.

There's probably some formula to select the ball size required based on 
measuring backlash etc, but the balls are cheap enough to buy more than 
one size.

What I'd like to see is a precision and accuracy test of a new ground 
ball screw VS a high grade rolled ball screw VS a rebuilt with full 
grind rolled ball screw.


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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Joe H]

Thank you for the reply.
I apologize to change the subject. I wasn't my intention, I have had a
curiosity about this and you have cleared it up.
Joe

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 11:01 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 27 February 2016 at 14:47, Joe H <67p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Andy,
> > You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball
> nut
> > only, assuming the screw has even wear?
>
> If you can match the supplier, then possibly. Otherwise there is
> almost no chance of getting a good match.
>
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Dave thank you.
Will also inform me import fees for Belgium

2016-02-27 17:03 GMT+01:00 Joe H <67p...@gmail.com>:

> Thanks Dave, Good information.
> Joe
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to
> > the screw with the proper sized balls.
> > Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want
> > to take them apart unless it is necessary.
> > You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do
> > that in the US.
> > I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a
> > new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also
> > needs help.
> > So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be
> > reconditioned as a set.
> > I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from
> > Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it
> > was about half what a new
> > set would have cost.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 2/27/2016 9:47 AM, Joe H wrote:
> > > Andy,
> > > You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball
> > nut
> > > only, assuming the screw has even wear? I realize that there are there
> > are
> > > considerations for mounting and such, but I had the feeling that the
> > screw
> > > and the nut were made as a set.
> > > Sorry to interject slightly off topic, I'm trying to educate.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Forum Deswysen <
> > forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello everyone,
> > >>
> > >> Before the servo failure, the precision of the machine was still in
> the
> > /
> > >> 100 mm.
> > >> Certainly due to the weight of the head.
> > >>
> > >> I'll start by changing the cables defective.
> > >> Then we will dismantle the screw to examine.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you for your valuable advice.
> > >>
> > >> I will continue my work with linuxcnc.
> > >> I retrofit a tour with Jon card.
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >>
> > >> Pierre
> > >>
> > >> 2016-02-27 5:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>:
> > >>
> > >>> On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable
> > >>> insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > >>>> I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i
> > controlled
> > >>> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from
> > oil
> > >>> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.
> > >> Made
> > >>> for some rather erratic servo performance.
> > >>>> - Original Message -
> > >>>> From: r...@superiorroll.com
> > >>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> > >> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I
> didn't
> > >>> use shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used
> 12/4
> > >> AWG.
> > >>>> Rick
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Original Message 
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> > >>>> From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> > >>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> > >> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>>>
> > >>>> For Rick :
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> > >>>> I will replace cables.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You changed the power and encoder?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Given the c

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Joe H]

Thanks Dave, Good information.
Joe

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to
> the screw with the proper sized balls.
> Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want
> to take them apart unless it is necessary.
> You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do
> that in the US.
> I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a
> new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also
> needs help.
> So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be
> reconditioned as a set.
> I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from
> Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it
> was about half what a new
> set would have cost.
>
> Dave
>
> On 2/27/2016 9:47 AM, Joe H wrote:
> > Andy,
> > You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball
> nut
> > only, assuming the screw has even wear? I realize that there are there
> are
> > considerations for mounting and such, but I had the feeling that the
> screw
> > and the nut were made as a set.
> > Sorry to interject slightly off topic, I'm trying to educate.
> > Thanks,
> > Joe
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Forum Deswysen <
> forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> Before the servo failure, the precision of the machine was still in the
> /
> >> 100 mm.
> >> Certainly due to the weight of the head.
> >>
> >> I'll start by changing the cables defective.
> >> Then we will dismantle the screw to examine.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your valuable advice.
> >>
> >> I will continue my work with linuxcnc.
> >> I retrofit a tour with Jon card.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Pierre
> >>
> >> 2016-02-27 5:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>> On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable
> >>> insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >>>> I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i
> controlled
> >>> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from
> oil
> >>> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.
> >> Made
> >>> for some rather erratic servo performance.
> >>>> - Original Message -----
> >>>> From: r...@superiorroll.com
> >>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> >> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> >>>>
> >>>> I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't
> >>> use shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4
> >> AWG.
> >>>> Rick
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Original Message 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> >>>> From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> >>>> Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> >>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> >> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>>
> >>>> For Rick :
> >>>>
> >>>> A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> >>>> I will replace cables.
> >>>>
> >>>> You changed the power and encoder?
> >>>>
> >>>> Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the
> >>> original
> >>>> cable.
> >>>> For power, did you use shielded cable?
> >>>> What section did you use
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have another problem:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
> >>>>
> >>>> 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
&

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 27 February 2016 at 14:47, Joe H <67p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy,
> You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball nut
> only, assuming the screw has even wear?

If you can match the supplier, then possibly. Otherwise there is
almost no chance of getting a good match.


-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Dave Cole]

The nut and screw are matched to each other and then they fit the nut to 
the screw with the proper sized balls.
Usually they are purchased together as a set and you really don't want 
to take them apart unless it is necessary.
You can have screws reground - I think that Thompson and Nook others do 
that in the US.
I suspect that if you have a "standard" screw you might be able to fit a 
new nut to it, but then if the nut is shot, generally the screw also 
needs help.
So what usually needs to be done is that the nut and screw need to be 
reconditioned as a set.
I worked on a machine that had a bad screw and they got a quote from 
Thompson or Nook to have the screw and nut reconditioned and I think it 
was about half what a new
set would have cost.

Dave

On 2/27/2016 9:47 AM, Joe H wrote:
> Andy,
> You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball nut
> only, assuming the screw has even wear? I realize that there are there are
> considerations for mounting and such, but I had the feeling that the screw
> and the nut were made as a set.
> Sorry to interject slightly off topic, I'm trying to educate.
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Forum Deswysen <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Before the servo failure, the precision of the machine was still in the /
>> 100 mm.
>> Certainly due to the weight of the head.
>>
>> I'll start by changing the cables defective.
>> Then we will dismantle the screw to examine.
>>
>> Thank you for your valuable advice.
>>
>> I will continue my work with linuxcnc.
>> I retrofit a tour with Jon card.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> 2016-02-27 5:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable
>>> insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
>>>> I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled
>>> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil
>>> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.
>> Made
>>> for some rather erratic servo performance.
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: r...@superiorroll.com
>>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
>>>>
>>>> I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't
>>> use shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4
>> AWG.
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Original Message 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
>>>> From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
>>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>
>>>> For Rick :
>>>>
>>>> A problem identified, thank you Rick.
>>>> I will replace cables.
>>>>
>>>> You changed the power and encoder?
>>>>
>>>> Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the
>>> original
>>>> cable.
>>>> For power, did you use shielded cable?
>>>> What section did you use
>>>>
>>>> Andy:
>>>>
>>>> I have another problem:
>>>>
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
>>>>
>>>> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
>>>>
>>>> 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
>>>>> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
>>>>> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the
>> damage I
>>>>> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
>>>>> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
>>>>> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our m

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 02/27/2016 03:47 PM, Joe H wrote:
> You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball nut
> only, assuming the screw has even wear? I realize that there are there are
> considerations for mounting and such, but I had the feeling that the screw
> and the nut were made as a set.
> Sorry to interject slightly off topic, I'm trying to educate.

Interjecting off-topic; to be honest, it is a good thing that I know
which mailing list this is because, taken slightly out of context, it
makes for rather amusing reading: balls, nuts, screwing, mounting.

I'll get my coat now, thank you.

-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Joe H]

Andy,
You linked a site that sells ball nuts. Is it possible to change a ball nut
only, assuming the screw has even wear? I realize that there are there are
considerations for mounting and such, but I had the feeling that the screw
and the nut were made as a set.
Sorry to interject slightly off topic, I'm trying to educate.
Thanks,
Joe

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Forum Deswysen <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Before the servo failure, the precision of the machine was still in the /
> 100 mm.
> Certainly due to the weight of the head.
>
> I'll start by changing the cables defective.
> Then we will dismantle the screw to examine.
>
> Thank you for your valuable advice.
>
> I will continue my work with linuxcnc.
> I retrofit a tour with Jon card.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2016-02-27 5:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable
> > insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled
> > gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil
> > exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.
> Made
> > for some rather erratic servo performance.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: r...@superiorroll.com
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> > >
> > > I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't
> > use shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4
> AWG.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >  Original Message 
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> > > From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> > > Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > >
> > > For Rick :
> > >
> > > A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> > > I will replace cables.
> > >
> > > You changed the power and encoder?
> > >
> > > Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the
> > original
> > > cable.
> > > For power, did you use shielded cable?
> > > What section did you use
> > >
> > > Andy:
> > >
> > > I have another problem:
> > >
> > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
> > >
> > > I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
> > >
> > > 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
> > >
> > >> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> > >> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> > >> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
> > >>
> > >> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the
> damage I
> > >> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> > >> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> > >> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> > >> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> > >> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> > >> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
> > >>
> > >> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> > >> controls.
> > >>
> > >> Rick
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > >>> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > >>> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> > >>>
> > >>> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > >>> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > >>> It's not that.
> > >>>
> &g

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Hello everyone,

Before the servo failure, the precision of the machine was still in the /
100 mm.
Certainly due to the weight of the head.

I'll start by changing the cables defective.
Then we will dismantle the screw to examine.

Thank you for your valuable advice.

I will continue my work with linuxcnc.
I retrofit a tour with Jon card.

Best regards,

Pierre

2016-02-27 5:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>:

> On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable
> insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled
> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil
> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.  Made
> for some rather erratic servo performance.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: r...@superiorroll.com
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> >
> > I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't
> use shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> > From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> >
> > For Rick :
> >
> > A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> > I will replace cables.
> >
> > You changed the power and encoder?
> >
> > Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the
> original
> > cable.
> > For power, did you use shielded cable?
> > What section did you use
> >
> > Andy:
> >
> > I have another problem:
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
> >
> > I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
> >
> > 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
> >
> >> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> >> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> >> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
> >>
> >> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> >> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> >> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> >> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> >> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> >> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> >> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
> >>
> >> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> >> controls.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> >>> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >>>
> >>> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> >>> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> >>> It's not that.
> >>>
> >>> The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> >> machine
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> >>> drive X:
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >>>
> >>> I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >>>
> >>> I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >>>
> >>> 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine
> actually
> >>>> doing?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >>>> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Dave Cole]

On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable 
insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(

Dave


On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled 
> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil 
> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.  Made 
> for some rather erratic servo performance.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: r...@superiorroll.com
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
>
> I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
> shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG.
>
> Rick
>
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>
> For Rick :
>
> A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> I will replace cables.
>
> You changed the power and encoder?
>
> Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
> cable.
> For power, did you use shielded cable?
> What section did you use
>
> Andy:
>
> I have another problem:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
>
> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
>
> 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
>
>> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
>> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
>> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>>
>> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
>> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
>> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
>> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
>> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
>> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
>> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>>
>> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
>> controls.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>>> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
>>> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
>>>
>>> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
>>> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
>>> It's not that.
>>>
>>> The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
>> machine
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
>>> drive X:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
>>>
>>> I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
>>>
>>> I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
>>>
>>> 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
>>>
>>>> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
>>>> doing?
>>>>
>>>> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
>>>> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
>>>> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
>>>> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
>>>> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
>>>> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
>>>> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
>>>> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
>>>> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
>>>> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
>>>> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
>>>>
>>>> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
>>>> since I did that.
>

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 21:31, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> I have another problem:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
>
> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

That sounds about right for 10 degrees of play in the screw.

The question now is whether the screw moves up and down (so the
problem is in the thrust bearings) or the screw moves relative to the
nut. Or whether you can see the movement somewhere else.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Todd Zuercher]

I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled gantry 
router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil exposure, was 
badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.  Made for some rather 
erratic servo performance.

- Original Message -
From: r...@superiorroll.com
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG. 

Rick


 Original Message ----
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>&g

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[rick]

I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG. 

Rick


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair <r...@superiorroll.com>:
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>>
> >>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> >>> was stopped
> >>> and the head placed on its transport support.
> >>>
> >>> Where does my axis error ???
> >>> This is an intermittent fault
> >>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for
> a
> >>> customer!
> >>> I had to do the subcontract.
> >>>
> >>&g

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>>
> >>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> >>> was stopped
> >>> and the head placed on its transport support.
> >>>
> >>> Where does my axis error ???
> >>> This is an intermittent fault
> >>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for
> a
> >>> customer!
> >>> I had to do the subcontract.
> >>>
> >>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >>>
>  With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>  centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
>  have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
>  mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration,
> and
>  I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
>  the nut cartridge.
> 
>  Rick
> 
>  On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> >>
> >>
> > This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> > the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> > to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> > in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> > sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> > you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> > inside that 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having 
with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the 
fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.

That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I 
am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up) 
the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive 
senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we 
always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault, 
reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives 
was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.

Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and 
controls.

Rick


On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
>
> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> It's not that.
>
> The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the machine
> ...
>
> Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> drive X:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
>
> I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
>
> I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
>
> 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
>> doing?
>>
>> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
>> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
>> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
>> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
>> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
>> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
>> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
>> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
>> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
>> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
>> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
>>
>> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
>> since I did that.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
>>> Perfect, I no difference.
>>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
>>>
>>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
>>> was stopped
>>> and the head placed on its transport support.
>>>
>>> Where does my axis error ???
>>> This is an intermittent fault
>>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
>>> customer!
>>> I had to do the subcontract.
>>>
>>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>>>
 With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
 centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
 have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
 mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
 I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
 the nut cartridge.

 Rick

 On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>>
>>
> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>
> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> replace the bolts.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For Rick :

Your reply came at once:

I just found a fault in the power cable of the Y axis
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NLXFFTXBMbmVuWVk

For Andy :

I will try now

2016-02-26 20:04 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 18:46, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> > Perfect, I no difference.
> > So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>
> I don't think you can necessarily say that with that test.
> You would need to try to lift the head with a lever and with the
> comparator in position.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
that caused the shutdown of the machine:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc

Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
It's not that.

The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the machine
...

Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
drive X:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc

I do not understand where this intermittent failure?

I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc

2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> doing?
>
> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
>
> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> since I did that.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> > Perfect, I no difference.
> > So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >
> > The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> > was stopped
> > and the head placed on its transport support.
> >
> > Where does my axis error ???
> > This is an intermittent fault
> > Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
> > customer!
> > I had to do the subcontract.
> >
> > 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
> >> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
> >> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
> >> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
> >> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
> >> the nut cartridge.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> >>> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> 
> 
> >>> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> >>> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> >>> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> >>> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> >>> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> >>> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> >>> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> >>> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> >>> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
> >>>
> >>> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> >>> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> >>> replace the bolts.
> >>>
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> --
> >>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> >>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> >>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> >>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> --
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick Lair
> >> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
> >> 399 East Center Street
> >> Petersburg MI, 49270
> >> PH: 734-279-1831
> >> FAX: 734-279-1166
> >> www.superiorroll.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --
> >> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> >> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> >> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> >> Troubleshoot faster and 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 18:46, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> Perfect, I no difference.
> So all is well with the ball screw !!!

I don't think you can necessarily say that with that test.
You would need to try to lift the head with a lever and with the
comparator in position.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually 
doing?

I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we 
also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the 
Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap 
Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the 
servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down 
internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all 
the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the 
kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the 
problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked 
the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire 
spool of cable and replaced all of them.

Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine 
since I did that.

Rick


On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> Perfect, I no difference.
> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
>
> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> was stopped
> and the head placed on its transport support.
>
> Where does my axis error ???
> This is an intermittent fault
> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
> customer!
> I had to do the subcontract.
>
> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
>> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
>> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
>> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
>> the nut cartridge.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU


>>> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
>>> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
>>> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
>>> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
>>> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
>>> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
>>> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
>>> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
>>> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>>>
>>> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
>>> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
>>> replace the bolts.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Rick Lair
>> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
>> 399 East Center Street
>> Petersburg MI, 49270
>> PH: 734-279-1831
>> FAX: 734-279-1166
>> www.superiorroll.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
Perfect, I no difference.
So all is well with the ball screw !!!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8

The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
was stopped
and the head placed on its transport support.

Where does my axis error ???
This is an intermittent fault
Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
customer!
I had to do the subcontract.

2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
> the nut cartridge.
>
> Rick
>
> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> >>
> >>
> > This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> > the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> > to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> > in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> > sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> > you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> > inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> > and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> > there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
> >
> > Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> > loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> > replace the bolts.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Rick Lair
> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
> 399 East Center Street
> Petersburg MI, 49270
> PH: 734-279-1831
> FAX: 734-279-1166
> www.superiorroll.com
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining 
centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we 
have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and 
mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and 
I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and 
the nut cartridge.

Rick

On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>>
>>
> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>
> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> replace the bolts.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Jon Elson]

On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
>
This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock 
the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem 
to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly 
in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut 
sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So, 
you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted 
inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside, 
and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then, 
there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.

Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have 
loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might 
replace the bolts.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

No we have never had any issues like this, that is why I would be 
looking at the mounting of the physical ball nut and mounting block, It 
doesn't appear to have any taper pins, just 4 bolts to attach the 
mounting block the the casting, and 4 bolts to mount the cartridge into 
the mounting block.

The nut could be worn and need rebuilt as andy has said, but the 
pictures show not too much wear and tear in and around the ball screw area.

Rick

On 2/26/2016 10:15 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> For everyone,
>
> Thank you I'll watch carefully.
>
> For Rick Lair,
>
> Have you ever had this problem with your  Sabre 750 ?
>
> 2016-02-26 16:03 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>> It doesn't look likely to be.
>>
>> The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
>> bearings, though.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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>> ___
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>>
> --
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> ___
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-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For everyone,

Thank you I'll watch carefully.

For Rick Lair,

Have you ever had this problem with your  Sabre 750 ?

2016-02-26 16:03 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> It doesn't look likely to be.
>
> The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
> bearings, though.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*

It doesn't look likely to be.

The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
bearings, though.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

If this is any help, here is a link to a copy of our Sabre 750 Z axis 
ball screw layout, your machine looks identical to our machine.

https://app.box.com/s/tt0favgpkqrvd0e6uisglg0p6jutdoh4

Rick

On 2/26/2016 9:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thank you for this additional information.
>
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> Some pictures of the problem:
>
> To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
> its transport support
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> Yes that's it.
>> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
>> ballscrew bearings.
>>
>> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
>> the backlash.
>>
>> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
>> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
>> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>>
>> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
>> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
>> have loosened.
>> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
>> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>>
>> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
>> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
>> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
>> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
>> size
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
>> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
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>> ___
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>>
> --
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-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

Is the ball nut mounting block solidly attached to the back of the main 
spindle casting? There are probably 4-6 10mm or 12mm bolts, and 2 taper 
pins that attach the mounting block to the spindle casting, maybe the 
pins are sheared and the screws loose. Unless the mounting block is part 
of the casting, and the ball nut is in a cartridge that bolts/drops into 
the mounting block. That sounds/looks like a lot of backlash to be in 
nut alone.



On 2/26/2016 9:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thank you for this additional information.
>
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> Some pictures of the problem:
>
> To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
> its transport support
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> Yes that's it.
>> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
>> ballscrew bearings.
>>
>> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
>> the backlash.
>>
>> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
>> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
>> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>>
>> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
>> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
>> have loosened.
>> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
>> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>>
>> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
>> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
>> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
>> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
>> size
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
>> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
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>>
> --
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-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Hello Andy,

Thank you for this additional information.

*Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*

Some pictures of the problem:

To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
its transport support

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU

Best regards,

Pierre

2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > Yes that's it.
>
> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
> ballscrew bearings.
>
> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
> the backlash.
>
> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>
> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
> have loosened.
> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>
> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
> size
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> Yes that's it.

Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
ballscrew bearings.

Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
the backlash.

Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.

Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
have loosened.
If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
the spacer to remove the backlash.

If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal size
http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Yes that's it.
Not easy with translation

Pierre

2016-02-25 23:28 GMT+01:00 Chris Morley <chrisinnana...@hotmail.com>:

>
> I'm sure he mean slack in the ballnut :)
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2016 1:06 PM
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Today we found the stake in the nut of the ball screw axis Z.
>
> Do you know the problem ???
>
> Is there a adjustment means ???
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
> finemeca.be
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Chris Morley]

I'm sure he mean slack in the ballnut :)

- Reply message -
From: "Forum Deswysen" <forum.deswy...@gmail.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2016 1:06 PM


Hello,

Today we found the stake in the nut of the ball screw axis Z.

Do you know the problem ???

Is there a adjustment means ???

Best regards,

Pierre
finemeca.be
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 25 February 2016 at 21:02, Forum Deswysen  wrote:

> Today we found the stake in the nut of the ball screw axis Z.

Can you explain further? I think perhaps there is a mis-translation.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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[Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Hello,

Today we found the stake in the nut of the ball screw axis Z.

Do you know the problem ???

Is there a adjustment means ???

Best regards,

Pierre
finemeca.be
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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