Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On 21 January 2013 00:09, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: My VW Touran has a Webasto without a pump, they have a burner as standard equipment because the TDI's doesn't come up in temp without it when it's cold outside This is actually the issue that is taking up most of my time at the moment. The new Euro6 engines are even worse. At -30 you can drive for an hour and still have -5C air coming out of the vents. (This is without the 2kW of electrical element in the cabin heater, though, as those prototypes didn't have that, and it is standard fit) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
2013/1/20 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: Nearly any modern car will have provision somewhere on the engine for a block heater. It is also likely to be in the right place too. Have you looked for a manufacturer-original part? No, I have not tried to look, because I have never heard that VW or Audi would have such an option from manufacturer, so I did not realize... I just tried, but did not find anything, most probably dumb issue between monitor and chair. Warm oil and warm battery are more critical for cold-start in diesel engines than coolant temperature. Is it safe to warm up battery with those rubber/silicon heating pads that are intended to be sticked to oil pan of engine? I do agree about warm oil. The thing is that IMHO the oil between piston and cylinder and everywhere else where friction between two parts takes place has to be warm, not the oil in the oil panm where it does not work, so that is why I thought that coolant liquid heaters are better as the liquid is circulated through all the engine block and warms up it all. (One week tomorrow I am off for 2 weeks in Rovaniemi doing cold climate development, though my particular interest is in cabin heater and oil pump performance rather than cold start) Any chance to visit Santa's workshop and get a small preview for next Christmas presents? :)) -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
Thank You, guys, for the answers! 2013/1/20 Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com: All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. Well, there has to be something that makes the fluid to circulate. Either it is a pump, which allows to place the heater anywhere with respect to motor. Or let the fluid circulate naturally, based on the fact that warmer liquid has smaller density so it moves up... But this approach requires to position the heater carefully with the motor block. It will not just work anywhere... I suspect that Your electrical heating units have a pump already built in... There's a silicone/rubber plate model nowadays that you glue directly onto the oil pan that works pretty well too. Some guys use it to pre-heat the oil reservoir on hydraulic machines. I think the price is 50-70 Euro. Yes, I have heard about them and we discussed them also with dad yesterday as he mentioned that their price also is good, but since I live in countryside there are several reasons I am suspicious about: 1) it should be attached to oil pan, which is at the very bottom of the motor; do I understand correctly that it actually requires also some protective shield to prevent any damage by things on the road? Like pieces of snow and ice that I can hear to hit the bottom of car? The road passing by my house is not cleaned within an hour or so after a snowfall; 2) IMHO the oil pan definitely is subject to get splashes of water from wheels; are these heaters sensitive to water or are they sealed up really good? 3) this heater heats up the motor only from one side while heating the cooling liquid and circulating it through the motor block heats it up thoroughly; so I somehow think that this approach is less effective and takes more time; is that really true? 4) and how exactly are they attached to the oil pan? Literally glued, which does not feel really safe to me? Or can it be positioned also with bolts (which requires welding few nuts to the outside of oil pan)? -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
Viesturs: A quick check with a search engine tells me there are tons of discussions of the relative merits of different heating techniques including opinionated folk living in extreme climates like northern Canada and Alaska, just to cite North America. If I were adding a heater to an existing vehicle, I expect I'd go for an easily installed oil-pan heater despite the potential for scraping that you mention. Fortunately, I've never lived anywhere cold enough to justify these techniques (well, there was that winter in Chicago 40-odd years ago but I was without a car at the time. Even the elevated trains were out of service.). In my youth, dipstick-styled heaters were the rage in my grandparents' farm community in the Badlands. It seems to me that if the nights are cold enough to justify an engine heater then a battery blanket/heater would be a good idea too. Car batteries lose much of their cranking capacity as the temperature plunges. Regards, Kent -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
Viesturs; We are in for another bout of cold weather, with night time lows of -30C. I have a block heater in my little Toyota Matrix, and when it's below about -20, I plug it in, and turn it on an hour or two before we try to start the car in the morning. It *does* make a difference. The car engine does turn over better than without it. Simple, reliable. Buildings here used to have (and, at work, still have) block heater plugs. But, now with fuel injection, the old if it does not start in three rrRRRrrr-rrrRRRrrr's when turning the ignition key go back to bed no longer is an issue; the car simply starts. But, the engine makes less noises if the block heater has been turned on for a while beforehand. John A. Stewart Ottawa, where yesterday we had rain all day, and today it's forecast to hit -30C overnight tonight. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
Viesturs; Another really off-topic post. Years ago, my wife at the time and I purchased a new diesel VW Golf. It came with the standard one year, anywhere in the world we'll fix it warranty. 6 months later, we were living in the Netherlands, and this car made it over with us. One month after that, I got a recall letter in my forwarded-from-Canada postal mail. The recall notice (in Canadian Traditional Format - english one side, french the other) said that there was a recall on some power steering units, and to take the car to your nearest dealer. So, I did. The dealer around the corner in The Netherlands had never seen a recall notice with english on one side, french on the other. He had no knowledge of the recall ID, either. But, he said leave it with me, and I'll get back to you. We did, and he did. The problem was that the power steering unit leaked when cold. There were no parts available in Europe, as it only got that cold on this side of the atlantic issue. So, he returned the car, the french/english recall letter, a covering letter from the dealer written in dutch, plus an inspection report in German, indicating that the car had been inspected within the warranty period, and it was not an issue in it's current location, but if it ever was re-exported back to Canada, that the power steering unit would be replaced free of charge. So there! John A. Stewart Ottawa. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On Sunday 20 January 2013 12:23:36 Viesturs Lācis did opine: Message additions Copyright Sunday 20 January 2013 by Gene Heskett Thank You, guys, for the answers! 2013/1/20 Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com: All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. Well, there has to be something that makes the fluid to circulate. Either it is a pump, which allows to place the heater anywhere with respect to motor. Or let the fluid circulate naturally, based on the fact that warmer liquid has smaller density so it moves up... But this approach requires to position the heater carefully with the motor block. It will not just work anywhere... I suspect that Your electrical heating units have a pump already built in... There's a silicone/rubber plate model nowadays that you glue directly onto the oil pan that works pretty well too. Some guys use it to pre-heat the oil reservoir on hydraulic machines. I think the price is 50-70 Euro. Yes, I have heard about them and we discussed them also with dad yesterday as he mentioned that their price also is good, but since I live in countryside there are several reasons I am suspicious about: 1) it should be attached to oil pan, which is at the very bottom of the motor; do I understand correctly that it actually requires also some protective shield to prevent any damage by things on the road? Like pieces of snow and ice that I can hear to hit the bottom of car? The road passing by my house is not cleaned within an hour or so after a snowfall; 2) IMHO the oil pan definitely is subject to get splashes of water from wheels; are these heaters sensitive to water or are they sealed up really good? 3) this heater heats up the motor only from one side while heating the cooling liquid and circulating it through the motor block heats it up thoroughly; so I somehow think that this approach is less effective and takes more time; is that really true? 4) and how exactly are they attached to the oil pan? Literally glued, which does not feel really safe to me? Or can it be positioned also with bolts (which requires welding few nuts to the outside of oil pan)? The ones I've seen, but not used, were generally held in place by springs attached to eyelets installed under a few pan screw heads. Usually 4, one on each corner of the heater pad. As for shielding against mechanical damages, I think I'd install an 'off- road' skid plate let the big stuff bounce off it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml We can embody the truth, but we cannot know it. -- Yates I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
2013/1/20 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Thank You, guys, for the answers! 2013/1/20 Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com: All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. Well, there has to be something that makes the fluid to circulate. Either it is a pump, which allows to place the heater anywhere with respect to motor. Or let the fluid circulate naturally, based on the fact that warmer liquid has smaller density so it moves up... But this approach requires to position the heater carefully with the motor block. It will not just work anywhere... I suspect that Your electrical heating units have a pump already built in... No, THERE IS NO EXTRA PUMP. Ever. I have a brand new Toyota with a block heater. Guess what? T.h.e.r.e. .i.s. .n.o. .p.u.m.p. Heat transports itself, either via the water or the engine block. If I leave the heater on the wind shield starts to defrost. Why? Because hot water moves. And no, there's no pump. ;) /S -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On 19 January 2013 21:22, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: There are lots of options for auxiliary heating with fuel and electricity. Strangely enough, despite living somewhere where -5C is unusually cold, I know quite a bit about this subject. Nearly any modern car will have provision somewhere on the engine for a block heater. It is also likely to be in the right place too. Have you looked for a manufacturer-original part? There is no pump with an electrical block heater. Fuel-fired heaters tend to have a pump (Webasto ones, for example). As you have spotted, these are not cheap. Warm oil and warm battery are more critical for cold-start in diesel engines than coolant temperature. (One week tomorrow I am off for 2 weeks in Rovaniemi doing cold climate development, though my particular interest is in cabin heater and oil pump performance rather than cold start) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
2013/1/20 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Nearly any modern car will have provision somewhere on the engine for a block heater. It is also likely to be in the right place too. Have you looked for a manufacturer-original part? Nearly every engine ever built sinces the 60's, I would say. Even my Volvo Amazon had one, and they really were built during the 60's. Webastos have a pump if they're supposed to heat up the coupe too and not only the engine. My VW Touran has a Webasto without a pump, they have a burner as standard equipment because the TDI's doesn't come up in temp without it when it's cold outside and as an extra you can buy a timer or remote for preheating. My brother's Volvo XC60 has a Webasto with pump, while he gets a cozy seat I get a frost free wind shield at its best. On the other hand, the car is at working temp after one or two minutes of driving if the heater was on. Like Andy says, what's your car? There will be a heater. http://www.defa.com/en/automotive/warmup/find_your_engine_heater/ /S -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: Winter has arrived with temperatures below -20C, so I finally decided to something about inability to start up car's engine in these cold mornings. There are lots of options for auxiliary heating with fuel and electricity. I found on ebay a nice heater that works from fuel, but it costs some 600 EUR. The simplest solution is an incandescent shop light on an extension cord that you just drop into the engine compartment and keep on through the night. 60W bulb should provide enough heat. Of course CFL or LED bulbs aren't hot enough to work... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
We just had a cheap add-on mains-powered block heater (inline with the cooling system, as I recall) in our gas cars when we lived in upstate New York. -20C was common in the winter. -Pete On Jan 20, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/1/20 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Nearly any modern car will have provision somewhere on the engine for a block heater. It is also likely to be in the right place too. Have you looked for a manufacturer-original part? Nearly every engine ever built sinces the 60's, I would say. Even my Volvo Amazon had one, and they really were built during the 60's. Webastos have a pump if they're supposed to heat up the coupe too and not only the engine. My VW Touran has a Webasto without a pump, they have a burner as standard equipment because the TDI's doesn't come up in temp without it when it's cold outside and as an extra you can buy a timer or remote for preheating. My brother's Volvo XC60 has a Webasto with pump, while he gets a cozy seat I get a frost free wind shield at its best. On the other hand, the car is at working temp after one or two minutes of driving if the heater was on. Like Andy says, what's your car? There will be a heater. http://www.defa.com/en/automotive/warmup/find_your_engine_heater/ /S -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. There's a silicone/rubber plate model nowadays that you glue directly onto the oil pan that works pretty well too. Some guys use it to pre-heat the oil reservoir on hydraulic machines. I think the price is 50-70 Euro. -26 C right now... /S 2013/1/20 craig cr...@facework.com On 1/19/2013 1:22 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: Hello! Winter has arrived with temperatures below -20C, so I finally decided to something about inability to start up car's engine in these cold mornings. There are lots of options for auxiliary heating with fuel and electricity. I found on ebay a nice heater that works from fuel, but it costs some 600 EUR. I found out that my parents have installed some electrical heaters in several of our tractors. They are cheap (something around 70 EUR) and work good, but the problem is that there is no pump inside the unit, just heater. In tractors they are specially placed relatively low to the engine so that the cooling liquid flows naturally as it is heated. I do not think that it is possible in car, so the question is: Can anyone suggest a small pump, powered by AC electricity and, what is most important, that will work in -20C, -30C temperature? I was thinking about all these aquarium pumps - size is great, flow rate also good, but I am reserved about them working below 0C. Is there something for a reasonable price? Thanks in advance! A couple of inexpensive alternative in rough order of costs. 1 install a momentary switch to put an additional battery in series on the ignition circuit. This wont work if it is too cold to turn over the engine but a really hot spark makes a big difference. (you dont need a very big auxillery battery since the ignition does not draw a lot to current and it is just used to start the car. release the switch as soon as the car starts. ) I use this when I go into the mountains in the winter. Note: I have only used this on old cars so I don't know if it will something bad to a modern ignition system. 2. heat the battery. A simple heating pad with a little insulation works quite well. (Wrap the pad in a acid resistant plastic if you want it to last). These won't heat the car but will make it a lot easier to start. Craig -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On 19.01.13 23:22, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... I do not think that it is possible in car, so the question is: Can anyone suggest a small pump, powered by AC electricity and, what is most important, that will work in -20C, -30C temperature? I was thinking about all these aquarium pumps - size is great, flow rate also good, but I am reserved about them working below 0C. Question: Does the pump need to work so far below 0°C if it is placed near the cheap heater you're fitting? If the pump is within a modestly insulated enclosure, adjacent to the heater (possibly padded a bit so it doesn't get too hot), then it should be warm enough to function by the time the engine coolant is warm enough to be pumped. So long as its bearing lubricant is not frozen, the motor should be fine. The shaft seal on a centrifugal pump would be the main concern? I'm having trouble relating to those unimaginably low temperatures. It was over 46°C in Penrith (45.8°C in Sydney) yesterday. Here in Victoria it's much cooler today, but it snows leaves every time the wind blows on the arid hotter days (40+°C), and the Manna Gums shed all their outer bark when it gets hot, so the 45 x 240L wheelie-bins of leaves (plus 6 cu. m of sticks) cleaned up on my 3/4 acre outer-suburban block before Christmas is as good as cancelled by all the crap which has fallen since. Adequate insurance, evac kit packed, and regular monitoring of the radio and the fire authority website are all you can do, with the house surrounded by eucalypt forest. (Oh, and leave early - the roads in our hills cannot cope with a mass evacuation.) Erik -- The Kyoto Protocol, drafted in 1997, aimed to reduce the world's greenhouse gas emissions by around five per cent from 1990 levels by the end of 2012. Instead, global greenhouse gases have risen around 58 per cent in that time. - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-08/troubled-un-climate-talks-spill-over/4416696 -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On 20.01.13 02:42, Sven Wesley wrote: All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. There's a silicone/rubber plate model nowadays that you glue directly onto the oil pan that works pretty well too. Some guys use it to pre-heat the oil reservoir on hydraulic machines. I think the price is 50-70 Euro. That I can grok. In '72 we had an ex-Indian Army colonel teaching us thermodynamics. He described how they started the diesel powered armoured vehicles, up in the mountainous north of that country - by lighting a fire under the belly plate. The petrol powered tanks were easier to get going, apparently. (And lighting a fire under them was hopefully a bit further down the list of safe things to do.) -26 C right now... It. does. not. compute. (Here, you leave a shiny spanner in the sun for some minutes, and you'll drop it with a yelp. There, you wouldn't be able to drop it, would you?) Erik -- Food is not a commodity like others. We should go back to a policy of maximum food self-sufficiency. It is crazy for us to think we can develop countries around the world without increasing their ability to feed themselves.- Bill Clinton, Speech at United Nations World Food Day, October 16, 2008 -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT - liquid pump for really cold temperature
On Sun, 2013-01-20 at 14:12 +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 20.01.13 02:42, Sven Wesley wrote: All my cars have, and all my former cars had, electrical heaters. You don't need a pump. There are universal models that sits in the cooler hose that works flawlessly. There's a silicone/rubber plate model nowadays that you glue directly onto the oil pan that works pretty well too. Some guys use it to pre-heat the oil reservoir on hydraulic machines. I think the price is 50-70 Euro. That I can grok. In '72 we had an ex-Indian Army colonel teaching us thermodynamics. He described how they started the diesel powered armoured vehicles, up in the mountainous north of that country - by lighting a fire under the belly plate. The petrol powered tanks were easier to get going, apparently. (And lighting a fire under them was hopefully a bit further down the list of safe things to do.) -26 C right now... It. does. not. compute. (Here, you leave a shiny spanner in the sun for some minutes, and you'll drop it with a yelp. There, you wouldn't be able to drop it, would you?) Erik There are many ways of promoting starting in a diesel. Mine was a DD298 Herc off a 40 Kw gen set installed in a 3/4 T pickup. a. heat the oil b. heat the water jacket c. heat the intake manifold d. massive .. 2X or more cables to the starter e. ether ... not a good idea. I used a 2250 W jacket heater on my diesel. It was positioned low enough so convection worked for circulation. It also heated the oil in the pan not by design but simply by conduction. I once started my diesel at +2 F with no aids. (elk hunting). A propane torch on the intake manifold worked pretty well down to about 25 F. or a bit lower. The water jacket approach never failed me but I never had to use it below -25 F. Gas rigs are probably best served by a warm battery and oil. Electronic ignition and fuel injection seems to have made things a lot easier. YMMV Dave -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
