Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:45:41 +1000 onefang Rejected  said:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:17:38 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On 08/04/2016 02:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel 
> > > said:
> > > 
> > >> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
> > >>> said:
> > >>>
> >  On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The
> >  Rasterman)  wrote:
> > 
> > > one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> > > anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> > > usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> > > have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> > > interesting/relevant.
> > >
> > > let me give you a sample:
> > >
> > > if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> > > timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> > > sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> > > zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> > > this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> > > etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> > > people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> > > are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it
> > > does x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's
> > > not accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want
> > > evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this,
> > > do some smaller ones out the front that people see and use
> > > daily. :)
> > 
> >  Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
> >  both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
> >  general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
> >  anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends
> >  to, even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual
> >  worlds to the masses.
> > >>>
> > >>> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special
> > >>> accounts". someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts,
> > >>> etc. is it a tool readily usable out of the box that people
> > >>> actually will need/use regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is
> > >>> not. a terminal is. a wm is. a web browser is. ... if someone has
> > >>> to set up a server themselves or register accounts somewhere else
> > >>> at all you just failed the "useful to anyone" :)
> > >>
> > >> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
> > >> account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.
> > > 
> > > count the number of people here participating in any virtual world.
> > > they use terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people
> > > involved in virtual worlds who would even look is small at best.
> > > perhaps you don't like it, but i'm trying to tell you that the
> > > reason no one is paying attention is you do not have something they
> > > want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or core
> > > users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be
> > > a periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid
> > > or anything. i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on
> > > things being relevant to others. if efl breaks terminology then
> > > that break becomes relevant because LOTs of people use it here and
> > > even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was being used in e
> > > for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant to a
> > > whole lot of people immediately.
> > > 
> > > i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of
> > > them as a virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is
> > > to you and that's great. not to me. and if you go around wondering
> > > why they are not paying attention then this is the primary reason.
> > > you have to have things in common that make the things you want be
> > > relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by pointing out that to
> > > help the project you care about, you may have to do other side
> > > projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :)
> > > 
> > 
> > A gadget to display models of parts of virtual worlds inside E would
> > be pretty interesting maybe.
> 
> What, like the file requester showing 3D thumbnails that Raster keeps
> arguing against?  Yeah, I want that to.  B-)

it has nothing to do with you. i equally would reject someone saying "lets put
a full pdf viewer in a thumbnail preview with form filling and page flipping
etc.". you've paid 90% of the cost of loading it completely anyway. 

Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[onefang Rejected]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:17:38 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 08/04/2016 02:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel 
> > said:
> > 
> >> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
> >>> said:
> >>>
>  On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The
>  Rasterman)  wrote:
> 
> > one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> > anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> > usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> > have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> > interesting/relevant.
> >
> > let me give you a sample:
> >
> > if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> > timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> > sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> > zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> > this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> > etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> > people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> > are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it
> > does x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's
> > not accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want
> > evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this,
> > do some smaller ones out the front that people see and use
> > daily. :)
> 
>  Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
>  both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
>  general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
>  anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends
>  to, even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual
>  worlds to the masses.
> >>>
> >>> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special
> >>> accounts". someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts,
> >>> etc. is it a tool readily usable out of the box that people
> >>> actually will need/use regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is
> >>> not. a terminal is. a wm is. a web browser is. ... if someone has
> >>> to set up a server themselves or register accounts somewhere else
> >>> at all you just failed the "useful to anyone" :)
> >>
> >> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
> >> account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.
> > 
> > count the number of people here participating in any virtual world.
> > they use terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people
> > involved in virtual worlds who would even look is small at best.
> > perhaps you don't like it, but i'm trying to tell you that the
> > reason no one is paying attention is you do not have something they
> > want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or core
> > users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be
> > a periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid
> > or anything. i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on
> > things being relevant to others. if efl breaks terminology then
> > that break becomes relevant because LOTs of people use it here and
> > even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was being used in e
> > for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant to a
> > whole lot of people immediately.
> > 
> > i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of
> > them as a virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is
> > to you and that's great. not to me. and if you go around wondering
> > why they are not paying attention then this is the primary reason.
> > you have to have things in common that make the things you want be
> > relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by pointing out that to
> > help the project you care about, you may have to do other side
> > projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :)
> > 
> 
> A gadget to display models of parts of virtual worlds inside E would
> be pretty interesting maybe.

What, like the file requester showing 3D thumbnails that Raster keeps
arguing against?  Yeah, I want that to.  B-)

> Extra extra bonus points if you can merge the concept of a virtual
> world and a Window manager, I've always wanted to be able to walk
> between my windows its about time someone reinveted 3D window
> managers, if you started work along those lines id definitely be
> interested.

Keep in mind that what I am working on is an entire 3D virtual world
system, which is a huge thing, including lots and lots and lots of
little bits.  Any generic bit I can get others to write 

Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[Simon Lees]

On 08/04/2016 02:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel  said:
> 
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
>>> said:
>>>
 On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
  wrote:

> one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> interesting/relevant.
>
> let me give you a sample:
>
> if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it does
> x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's not
> accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want evas
> 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this, do some
> smaller ones out the front that people see and use daily. :)

 Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
 both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
 general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
 anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends to,
 even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to
 the masses.
>>>
>>> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special accounts".
>>> someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts, etc. is it a
>>> tool readily usable out of the box that people actually will need/use
>>> regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is not. a terminal is. a wm is.
>>> a web browser is. ... if someone has to set up a server themselves or
>>> register accounts somewhere else at all you just failed the "useful
>>> to anyone" :)
>>
>> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
>> account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.
> 
> count the number of people here participating in any virtual world. they use
> terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people involved in virtual 
> worlds
> who would even look is small at best. perhaps you don't like it, but i'm 
> trying
> to tell you that the reason no one is paying attention is you do not have
> something they want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or
> core users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be a
> periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid or anything.
> i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on things being relevant to
> others. if efl breaks terminology then that break becomes relevant because 
> LOTs
> of people use it here and even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was
> being used in e for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant 
> to
> a whole lot of people immediately.
> 
> i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of them as a
> virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is to you and that's
> great. not to me. and if you go around wondering why they are not paying
> attention then this is the primary reason. you have to have things in common
> that make the things you want be relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by
> pointing out that to help the project you care about, you may have to do other
> side projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :)
> 

A gadget to display models of parts of virtual worlds inside E would be
pretty interesting maybe.

Extra extra bonus points if you can merge the concept of a virtual world
and a Window manager, I've always wanted to be able to walk between my
windows its about time someone reinveted 3D window managers, if you
started work along those lines id definitely be interested.

-- 

Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek
SUSE LinuxAdeliade Australia, UTC+9:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B




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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[Simon Lees]

On 08/04/2016 02:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel  said:
> 
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
>>> said:
>>>
 On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
  wrote:

> one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> interesting/relevant.
>
> let me give you a sample:
>
> if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it does
> x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's not
> accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want evas
> 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this, do some
> smaller ones out the front that people see and use daily. :)

 Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
 both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
 general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
 anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends to,
 even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to
 the masses.
>>>
>>> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special accounts".
>>> someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts, etc. is it a
>>> tool readily usable out of the box that people actually will need/use
>>> regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is not. a terminal is. a wm is.
>>> a web browser is. ... if someone has to set up a server themselves or
>>> register accounts somewhere else at all you just failed the "useful
>>> to anyone" :)
>>
>> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
>> account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.
> 
> count the number of people here participating in any virtual world. they use
> terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people involved in virtual 
> worlds
> who would even look is small at best. perhaps you don't like it, but i'm 
> trying
> to tell you that the reason no one is paying attention is you do not have
> something they want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or
> core users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be a
> periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid or anything.
> i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on things being relevant to
> others. if efl breaks terminology then that break becomes relevant because 
> LOTs
> of people use it here and even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was
> being used in e for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant 
> to
> a whole lot of people immediately.
> 
> i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of them as a
> virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is to you and that's
> great. not to me. and if you go around wondering why they are not paying
> attention then this is the primary reason. you have to have things in common
> that make the things you want be relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by
> pointing out that to help the project you care about, you may have to do other
> side projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :)
> 

A gadget to display models of parts of virtual worlds inside E would be
pretty interesting maybe.

-- 

Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek
SUSE LinuxAdeliade Australia, UTC+9:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B



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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel  said:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
> > said:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> > > > anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> > > > usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> > > > have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> > > > interesting/relevant.
> > > > 
> > > > let me give you a sample:
> > > > 
> > > > if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> > > > timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> > > > sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> > > > zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> > > > this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> > > > etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> > > > people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> > > > are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it does
> > > > x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's not
> > > > accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want evas
> > > > 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this, do some
> > > > smaller ones out the front that people see and use daily. :)
> > > 
> > > Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
> > > both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
> > > general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
> > > anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends to,
> > > even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to
> > > the masses.
> > 
> > "that are easily downloadable and usable without special accounts".
> > someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts, etc. is it a
> > tool readily usable out of the box that people actually will need/use
> > regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is not. a terminal is. a wm is.
> > a web browser is. ... if someone has to set up a server themselves or
> > register accounts somewhere else at all you just failed the "useful
> > to anyone" :)
> 
> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
> account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.

count the number of people here participating in any virtual world. they use
terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people involved in virtual worlds
who would even look is small at best. perhaps you don't like it, but i'm trying
to tell you that the reason no one is paying attention is you do not have
something they want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or
core users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be a
periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid or anything.
i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on things being relevant to
others. if efl breaks terminology then that break becomes relevant because LOTs
of people use it here and even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was
being used in e for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant to
a whole lot of people immediately.

i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of them as a
virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is to you and that's
great. not to me. and if you go around wondering why they are not paying
attention then this is the primary reason. you have to have things in common
that make the things you want be relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by
pointing out that to help the project you care about, you may have to do other
side projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :)

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[David Seikel]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
 wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel 
> said:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to
> > > anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily
> > > usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you
> > > have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be
> > > interesting/relevant.
> > > 
> > > let me give you a sample:
> > > 
> > > if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world
> > > timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did
> > > sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you
> > > zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and
> > > this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar
> > > etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of
> > > people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails
> > > are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it does
> > > x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's not
> > > accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want evas
> > > 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this, do some
> > > smaller ones out the front that people see and use daily. :)
> > 
> > Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to
> > both, and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my
> > general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default,
> > anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends to,
> > even on their phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to
> > the masses.
> 
> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special accounts".
> someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts, etc. is it a
> tool readily usable out of the box that people actually will need/use
> regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is not. a terminal is. a wm is.
> a web browser is. ... if someone has to set up a server themselves or
> register accounts somewhere else at all you just failed the "useful
> to anyone" :)

If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into
account.  Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me.

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel  said:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
>  wrote:
> 
> > one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to anyone
> > else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily usable and
> > downloadable (without needing special accounts you have to pay for
> > e.g second life) then you would be interesting/relevant.
> > 
> > let me give you a sample:
> > 
> > if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world timezones,
> > selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did sexy stuff like
> > used topological maps of the world so when you zoom into an area you
> > get some mountains/hills and so on... and this was part of e's
> > settings tools or clock tool with calendar etc. ... well then that'd
> > be really cool and useful to LOTs of people and accessible to
> > everyone. :) just saying. you're emails are "i'm working on this
> > thing.. here on my hard drive... it does x/y/z and will do x/y/z".
> > that's not REAL to anyone. it's not accessible. it's not used daily
> > thus important. :) you want evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER
> > projects you do like this, do some smaller ones out the front that
> > people see and use daily. :)
> 
> Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to both,
> and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my general idea
> is to make server side so efficient that by default, anyone can run
> their own little server to invite their friends to, even on their
> phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to the masses.

"that are easily downloadable and usable without special accounts". someone has
to set up a server, run it, need accounts, etc. is it a tool readily usable out
of the box that people actually will need/use regularly. a secondlife or
quivalent is not. a terminal is. a wm is. a web browser is. ... if someone has
to set up a server themselves or register accounts somewhere else at all you
just failed the "useful to anyone" :)


-- 
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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[David Seikel]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
 wrote:

> one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to anyone
> else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily usable and
> downloadable (without needing special accounts you have to pay for
> e.g second life) then you would be interesting/relevant.
> 
> let me give you a sample:
> 
> if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world timezones,
> selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did sexy stuff like
> used topological maps of the world so when you zoom into an area you
> get some mountains/hills and so on... and this was part of e's
> settings tools or clock tool with calendar etc. ... well then that'd
> be really cool and useful to LOTs of people and accessible to
> everyone. :) just saying. you're emails are "i'm working on this
> thing.. here on my hard drive... it does x/y/z and will do x/y/z".
> that's not REAL to anyone. it's not accessible. it's not used daily
> thus important. :) you want evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER
> projects you do like this, do some smaller ones out the front that
> people see and use daily. :)

Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to both,
and is on Github.  Your arguments are invalid.  Hell, my general idea
is to make server side so efficient that by default, anyone can run
their own little server to invite their friends to, even on their
phone.  I'm trying to open up 3D virtual worlds to the masses.

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:39:08 +1000 David Seikel  said:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:27:49 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:53:57 +1000 David Seikel 
> > said:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:51:48 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > >> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > > > >>
> > > > >> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > > > >> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
> > > > >> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
> > > > >>
> > > > >> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video
> > > > >> bends is silly 
> > > > >> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is
> > > > >> rather rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you
> > > > >> could argue xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and
> > > > >> works and has proven to be not any real pain.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured
> > > > >> backend that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the
> > > > >> bonus of out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the
> > > > >> 0.1 backend), so let's not make peolpe install 2 video
> > > > >> backends (or possibly 3 or more) just to build efl out of the
> > > > >> box.
> > > > > 
> > > > > gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
> > > > > 
> > > > Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
> > > > migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match
> > > > your stable distro :P
> > > 
> > > Ubuntu 12.04 LTS hasn't reached EOL yet.  VLC works fine with EFL
> > > on that.  If I was a mere user, sure I would stick to stable EFL,
> > > I'm a developer.  Though previous stable EFLs also had to be told
> > > not to use gst1.
> > 
> > 12.04 is 4+ years old. so no. doesn't count. you CAN switch to vlc or
> > CAN switch to gst 0.10 backend with --enables/disables etc. but
> > frankly. you don't count. not for the purposes of selecting DEFAULTS
> > you don't. if the idea was "defaults are only on if everyone on the
> > planet has that" then you would.  the point is selecting for the vast
> > majority of people.
> 
> Your commit message implied both gst1 and VLC had advantages and
> disadvantages, I was throwing out one more that might have switched the
> balance in favour of VLC.

gst1 is ALREADY a default. because it's extremely common and full featured.
you are already having to --disable that default. so for you it changes
nothing. having BOTH on by default is about as silly as we can be. gst1 is the
best sensible default because it is actually full featured and stable.

> And I'm well aware that I don't count, I never count, everyone always
> ignores me.  Hence me alias in places that require two names - onefang
> Rejected.  Even being the biggest user of Evas_3D outside of Samsung
> doesn't get me listened to by the Evas_3D developers.  :-P

you CHOOSE to do the opposite of everyone else and just never update your OS
and if we were to make that the default way of thinking we'd never be
supporting new versions of anything and always fighting with "already fixed
issues". we wouldnt even be doing wayland because that requires folloing new
wl's, libinputs etc. closely.

one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to anyone else. if
you made open source tools/apps that were easily usable and downloadable
(without needing special accounts you have to pay for e.g second life) then you
would be interesting/relevant.

let me give you a sample:

if you  made a really nice world clock app for seeing world timezones,
selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did sexy stuff like used
topological maps of the world so when you zoom into an area you get some
mountains/hills and so on... and this was part of e's settings tools or clock
tool with calendar etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs
of people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails are "i'm
working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it does x/y/z and will do
x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's not accessible. it's not used daily
thus important. :) you want evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do
like this, do some smaller ones out the front that people see and use daily. :)

> Meh, I'm used to it.  Feel free to ignore this rant.  lol
> 
> -- 
> A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
> coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)

Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[David Seikel]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:27:49 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
 wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:53:57 +1000 David Seikel 
> said:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:51:48 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > > >>
> > > >> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > > >> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
> > > >> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
> > > >>
> > > >> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video
> > > >> bends is silly 
> > > >> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is
> > > >> rather rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you
> > > >> could argue xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and
> > > >> works and has proven to be not any real pain.
> > > >> 
> > > >> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured
> > > >> backend that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the
> > > >> bonus of out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the
> > > >> 0.1 backend), so let's not make peolpe install 2 video
> > > >> backends (or possibly 3 or more) just to build efl out of the
> > > >> box.
> > > > 
> > > > gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
> > > > 
> > > Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
> > > migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match
> > > your stable distro :P
> > 
> > Ubuntu 12.04 LTS hasn't reached EOL yet.  VLC works fine with EFL
> > on that.  If I was a mere user, sure I would stick to stable EFL,
> > I'm a developer.  Though previous stable EFLs also had to be told
> > not to use gst1.
> 
> 12.04 is 4+ years old. so no. doesn't count. you CAN switch to vlc or
> CAN switch to gst 0.10 backend with --enables/disables etc. but
> frankly. you don't count. not for the purposes of selecting DEFAULTS
> you don't. if the idea was "defaults are only on if everyone on the
> planet has that" then you would.  the point is selecting for the vast
> majority of people.

Your commit message implied both gst1 and VLC had advantages and
disadvantages, I was throwing out one more that might have switched the
balance in favour of VLC.

And I'm well aware that I don't count, I never count, everyone always
ignores me.  Hence me alias in places that require two names - onefang
Rejected.  Even being the biggest user of Evas_3D outside of Samsung
doesn't get me listened to by the Evas_3D developers.  :-P

Meh, I'm used to it.  Feel free to ignore this rant.  lol

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:53:57 +1000 David Seikel  said:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:51:48 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> > > On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > >> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
> > >>
> > >> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > >>
> > >> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> > >> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
> > >> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
> > >>
> > >> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends
> > >> is silly 
> > >> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is rather
> > >> rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you could
> > >> argue xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and works and
> > >> has proven to be not any real pain.
> > >> 
> > >> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured backend
> > >> that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the bonus of
> > >> out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the 0.1 backend),
> > >> so let's not make peolpe install 2 video backends (or possibly 3 or
> > >> more) just to build efl out of the box.
> > > 
> > > gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
> > > 
> > Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
> > migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match your
> > stable distro :P
> 
> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS hasn't reached EOL yet.  VLC works fine with EFL
> on that.  If I was a mere user, sure I would stick to stable EFL, I'm a
> developer.  Though previous stable EFLs also had to be told not to use
> gst1.

12.04 is 4+ years old. so no. doesn't count. you CAN switch to vlc or CAN
switch to gst 0.10 backend with --enables/disables etc. but frankly. you don't
count. not for the purposes of selecting DEFAULTS you don't. if the idea was
"defaults are only on if everyone on the planet has that" then you would.  the
point is selecting for the vast majority of people.

> On the other hand, I'm considering a switch to Debian some day
> soonish, or something else.
> 
> -- 
> A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
> coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[Simon Lees]

On 08/04/2016 10:23 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:51:48 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
>>> On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 raster pushed a commit to branch master.

 http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5

 commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
 Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
 Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900

 emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends
 is silly 
 as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is rather
 rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you could
 argue xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and works and
 has proven to be not any real pain.
 
 gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured backend
 that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the bonus of
 out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the 0.1 backend),
 so let's not make peolpe install 2 video backends (or possibly 3 or
 more) just to build efl out of the box.
>>>
>>> gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
>>>
>> Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
>> migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match your
>> stable distro :P
> 
> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS hasn't reached EOL yet.  VLC works fine with EFL
> on that.  If I was a mere user, sure I would stick to stable EFL, I'm a
> developer.  Though previous stable EFLs also had to be told not to use
> gst1.
> 
gst1 is now the preferred option as basically all distro's are shipping
it gst0.10 can still be built with a configure flag i'm pretty sure as
an alternative to vlc

> On the other hand, I'm considering a switch to Debian some day
> soonish, or something else.
> 

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[David Seikel]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:51:48 +0930 Simon Lees  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
> >>
> >> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> >>
> >> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> >> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
> >> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
> >>
> >> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends
> >> is silly 
> >> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is rather
> >> rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you could
> >> argue xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and works and
> >> has proven to be not any real pain.
> >> 
> >> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured backend
> >> that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the bonus of
> >> out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the 0.1 backend),
> >> so let's not make peolpe install 2 video backends (or possibly 3 or
> >> more) just to build efl out of the box.
> > 
> > gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
> > 
> Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
> migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match your
> stable distro :P

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS hasn't reached EOL yet.  VLC works fine with EFL
on that.  If I was a mere user, sure I would stick to stable EFL, I'm a
developer.  Though previous stable EFLs also had to be told not to use
gst1.

On the other hand, I'm considering a switch to Debian some day
soonish, or something else.

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[Simon Lees]

On 08/04/2016 09:37 AM, David Seikel wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
>  wrote:
> 
>> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
>>
>> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
>>
>> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
>> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
>> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
>>
>> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends
>> is silly 
>> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is rather
>> rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you could argue
>> xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and works and has proven
>> to be not any real pain.
>> 
>> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured backend
>> that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the bonus of
>> out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the 0.1 backend),
>> so let's not make peolpe install 2 video backends (or possibly 3 or
>> more) just to build efl out of the box.
> 
> gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P
> 
Which one specifically? as far as I know all the major ones have
migrated and shouldn't you just be using the stable efl to match your
stable distro :P

-- 

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SUSE LinuxAdeliade Australia, UTC+9:30
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Re: [E-devel] [EGIT] [core/efl] master 01/01: emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends is silly

[David Seikel]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:11 -0700 Carsten Haitzler
 wrote:

> raster pushed a commit to branch master.
> 
> http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> 
> commit 1f48ce5f6b588ade04d37680e318622991ac48b5
> Author: Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) 
> Date:   Thu Aug 4 08:04:57 2016 +0900
> 
> emotion generic - vlc - make it off by default as 2 video bends
> is silly 
> as per bug. requiring by DEFAULT 2 video back ends is rather
> rediculous. pick one and the others are optional. you could argue
> xine now is barely worth it, but it's stable and works and has proven
> to be not any real pain.
> 
> gst1 is a more optimal and far more complete/featured backend
> that the vlc generic one anyway. vlc generic has the bonus of
> out-of-process, but gst1 is pretty stable (unlike the 0.1 backend),
> so let's not make peolpe install 2 video backends (or possibly 3 or
> more) just to build efl out of the box.

gst1 is not available on some stable Linux distros.  :-P

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.


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