Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
On 30 Jul 2021 at 21:39, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:
> This is a battle being fought between lots of hardware manufacturers and
> owners of devices ranging from cars to tractors to phones to laptops.
I had an insane idea in the 1990s, and it hasn't gotten any saner since. It
was down the block from impossible then, and probably right next door to it
now that EVs are actually in production, but it's kind of fun to dream
about.
My thought was that switching the world to EVs was an opportunity to rethink
the whole idea of how vehicles are designed, made, and sold.
We already have an open source EVSE. Why not an open source EV?
Call it the FLOSEV - Free, libre open source electric vehicle.
What I'm dreaming about is a simple, straightforward, no-frills reference
design EV. No power windows, no fancy sound system, no self-driving or
similar gimmicks and gadgets. Not even a specific body. Just a basic EV
platform that, with minimal changes, could be built as a functional 2- or 4-
door hatchback, small crossover, van, or pickup truck.
The design might be placed in the public domain, or it might follow the
Creative Commons, BSD, GNU, or other similar open licensing ("copyleft"?)
scheme.
Really ambitious EV hobbyists could build a FLOSEV from published plans.
Organizations, nonprofit or for-profit, could develop kits, semi-kits, and
finished vehicles. As with open source software, the design could be
improved or "forked" by others, as long as they adhered to the terms of the
license.
I know, an EV is orders of magnitude more complex than an EVSE. And there
would be enormous regulatory hurdles, especially since you'd want to meet as
many nations' standards as possible.
Financing the design would be a daunting challenge. For obvious reasons you
couldn't approach venture capitalists. Heck, if any showed interest, you'd
have to ward them off with tear gas and a large dog.
Donations would have to play a big part, but you'd have to be careful what
foundations, individuals, and governments you approached. Look what
happened to the Tropica / Xebra and the Solectria Sunrise when outside
organizations got involved.
As I said, this is utterly whacko. I can see hurdles, and I'm ignorant, so
I'm sure that an industry insider would see 50 foot walls topped with razor
wire, flanked by guard towers, and protected by armed guards.
But it's still intriguing to contemplate and dream about. Wouldn't a FLOSEV
knock the socks off of the big corporate automakers? :-)
Actually, the most likely scenario for something like this would be if the
Chinese government sponsored development of an EV platform that Chinese
automakers could adopt. That's not exactly what I have in mind though ...
David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
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Post-truth is pre-fascism.
-- Timothy Snyder= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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[EVDL] Batteryu warmer was Re: Having a Bolt in extreme cold
Just looking into this and it turns out if the Bolt is on a 120V EVSE, the battery warmer only runs at 25%. On the plus side this will prevent running down your battery in cold weather, on the other hand it also means that in REALLY cold weather it probably won't be able to keep the battery warm, unless you have an insulated garage. In Alaska, it's probably worth it to setup a 240V outlet to use for charging My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key July 30, 2021 11:02 AM, "Peter VanDerWal via EV" wrote: > If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range > reduction? > > From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature > drops below 37, or climbs > above 95, the battery thermal management system will turn on. > > So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the > battery temp should stay > around 37 degrees. > > I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally > here the cooling > systems run to keep the batteries cool. I haven't noticed them doing this > when not plugged in. Then > again, where I live it only occasionaly get's above 95. > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: > >> Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. >> >> Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within >> the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer >> spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! >> >> At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just >> runs >> THoughts? >> Bob >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
UBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>>>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> ___ >>>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/b8560aad/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
The 12 Amp limit is in the car, so I think it probably sets the limit with any 120V EVSE (I'm just guessing). You can select either 8 amp (default) or set the car to charge at 12 Amps, although it likes to switch back to 8 amps. >From what I've read online, the Bolt (and later model Volt) EVSE is made by >Clipper Creek and will also work on 240V @ 12 Amps. FWIW The EVSE tells the car the maximum current it can supply, the car is then free to draw whatever it wants as long as it's not more than what the EVSE advertises. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key July 30, 2021 4:14 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: > What is the 120v EVSE like that comes with the Bolt? > Does it allow 16 amp operation on a 20 amp outlet? > Is that setting made in the EVSE or in the car. > > It would seem to me to be an EVSE function because the > EVSE does not know what it is plugged into and you wouldnt > want an EV to ask for 16 amps when the EVSE is plugged into > only a 15 amp circuit. > > BOb > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 4:02 PM Jay Summet via EV wrote: > >> My guess is that it would work fine at 120 volt charging (but your >> charging speed may be slow, as alot of the power would be going to >> condition the battery.) >> >> Generally, the only thing in the car that sees the 120v is the battery >> charger (taking the 120 volts up to the 3-4 hundred volts the battery uses. >> >> Everything else in the car runs off of either the HV battery system, or >> the 12v accessory system (which is powered by a DC2DC converter from the >> HV battery system. >> >> So as far as the car is concerned, the voltage of the input charging >> system does not matter. >> >> The only issue I see is that at 120 volts, you can only get 1-1.5 kW >> into the vehicle, and if the battery heater takes 1.8 kW, continuously >> it may not be able to keep the battery heated without discharging the >> battery. >> >> For this reason there may be a software lock that prevents cabin heating >> or battery heating when plugged into 120 voltsbut I kind of doubt it. >> >> Jay >> >> On 7/30/21 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: >> Thanks! >> My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging. >> My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only >> access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to >> switch to 240v. >> >> So, does BMS work on 120v? What about "remote start" (compartment >> conditioning? >> >> Bob >> On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV >> wrote: >> >> If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range >> reduction? >> >> From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature >> drops below 37, or climbs >> above 95, the battery thermal management system will turn on. >> >> So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the >> battery temp should stay >> around 37 degrees. >> >> I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally >> here the cooling >> systems run to keep the batteries cool. I haven't noticed them doing this >> when not plugged in. Then >> again, where I live it only occasionaly get's above 95. >> >> My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key >> >> July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: >> >> Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. >> >> Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within >> the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer >> spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! >> >> At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just >> runs >> THoughts? >> Bob >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > Address messages
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 14:44 Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > > On security: there are ways to guarantee local physical presence before > > software/firmware is changed. A physical write-protect switch or a jumper > > that must be moved is one of them. Some computers have required this kind > > of thing before BIOS updates could be made. > > > Most farmers are "physically" at their tractor when they load the hacked > software with who knows what "extra features" created by the hackers. > The point was requiring physical presence to change firmware is one way to mitigate risks of someone else remotely modifying firmware on connected devices. Similarly, a physical, manual on/off switch that actually disconnects a circuit, cannot be remotely overridden. (Well, unless you have robots or drones or servants on site who are willing to flip the switch at your command.) I also doubt the alleged "hackers" will have much interest in adding "misfeatures" that break the equipment. The primary interest is in bypassing the locks that the customer (some tractor owners) wants bypassed. The user population is not all that large either. (If the "misfeature" is something like ransomware added to a firmware...owners may already feel the manufacturers are charging a ransom to repair the hardware, and feel the risk is worth it. People will go to great lengths to bypass restrictions they feel are unjust/unfair.) All these issues could be mitigated by owner-friendly hardware and software policies from the manufacturer. In short, mfrs should not block owners from being able to maintain equipment sold to owners. (If the hardware is being leased with included complete support/maintenance, that's fine. Just don't sell something when it really is only being leased.) In some cases that may also mean giving owners some level of software access, if the software is needed to maintain the system. In other cases it may mean a giving owners a way to unlock access when the company wants to mark that hardware as 'end of life', or owner wants access before EOL, by voiding a warranty. This is a battle being fought between lots of hardware manufacturers and owners of devices ranging from cars to tractors to phones to laptops. Louis Rossmann has a lot of knowledge and experience in these matters. Article and comments: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170322/04582036973/tractor-owners-using-pirated-firmware-to-dodge-john-deeres-ham-fisted-attempt-to-monopolize-repair.shtml -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/6bbf49df/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] EV charging rates
You can estimate the 'charging MPH' for a 120v 15a outlet. Or any outlet. The max amps is 80% of the nominal. Power: 120v x 15a x 0.8=1.44 kW. You just need to know the pack size (kWh) and (real world) range for that pack (miles). That is enough to let you calculate the Wh/mile. 60 kWh/240 miles = 250 Wh/mile = 0.25 kWh/mile = 4 miles/kWh 1.44 kW * 4 miles/kWh = 5.76 miles/hour charging. On Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 10:52 Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > In charging, the car makes the difference! > > In about the middle of this page is a table that shows the variety of > charging rates in Miles per-hour for a variety of Tesla's on the variety > of electrical outlets > > > https://garagetransformed.com/electric-car-outlet/#:~:text=Level%202%20EV%20chargers%20require%20running%20240%20volt,the%20breaker%20box%20to%20have%20a%20compatible%20interface > . > > I usually just use the same general figure of 4 MPH for 120v, and 10 MPH > for > 20 amps at 240. But these assume a constant efficiency for the cars being > charged. When in fact, cars have a high range of variability in how > efficiently > they use those kWh. For example, the 20 amp 240v range varies from 8 > to 15 MPh or almost two to one between the Tesla model X and more > efficient model 3. > > I need to remember that. I wonder what the MPH charge rate for the F150 > will be! Or the Hummer.? If anyone has numbers to add to this table for > other models, please let me know. > > Bob > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/28086cb6/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
/help/index.html#usub > > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > ___ > > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/b8560aad/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
od idea? In Anchorage for example. > > > >>> > > > >>> Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to > do within > > > >>> the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the > summer > > > >>> spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! > > > >>> > > > >>> At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, > it just > > > >>> runs > > > >>> THoughts? > > > >>> Bob > > > >>> ___ > > > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > > > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > >> ___ > > > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > ___ > > > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > > > > ___ > > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/93b33421/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
Nevermoind. I found the answer. The BOLT maxes ouit at 12 amps on 120v and no way to change it. bob On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 7:14 PM Robert Bruninga wrote: > > What is the 120v EVSE like that comes with the Bolt? > Does it allow 16 amp operation on a 20 amp outlet? > Is that setting made in the EVSE or in the car. > > It would seem to me to be an EVSE function because the > EVSE does not know what it is plugged into and you wouldnt > want an EV to ask for 16 amps when the EVSE is plugged into > only a 15 amp circuit. > > BOb > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 4:02 PM Jay Summet via EV wrote: > > > > My guess is that it would work fine at 120 volt charging (but your > > charging speed may be slow, as alot of the power would be going to > > condition the battery.) > > > > Generally, the only thing in the car that sees the 120v is the battery > > charger (taking the 120 volts up to the 3-4 hundred volts the battery uses. > > > > Everything else in the car runs off of either the HV battery system, or > > the 12v accessory system (which is powered by a DC2DC converter from the > > HV battery system. > > > > So as far as the car is concerned, the voltage of the input charging > > system does not matter. > > > > The only issue I see is that at 120 volts, you can only get 1-1.5 kW > > into the vehicle, and if the battery heater takes 1.8 kW, continuously > > it may not be able to keep the battery heated without discharging the > > battery. > > > > For this reason there may be a software lock that prevents cabin heating > > or battery heating when plugged into 120 voltsbut I kind of doubt it. > > > > Jay > > > > On 7/30/21 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > > > Thanks! > > > My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging. > > > My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only > > > access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to > > > switch to 240v. > > > > > > So, does BMS work on 120v? What about "remote start" (compartment > > > conditioning? > > > > > > Bob > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range > > >> reduction? > > >> > > >> From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery > > >> temperature drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal > > >> management system will turn on. > > >> > > >> So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the > > >> battery temp should stay around 37 degrees. > > >> > > >> I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will > > >> occasionally here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool. I > > >> haven't noticed them doing this when not plugged in. Then again, where > > >> I live it only occasionaly get's above 95. > > >> > > >> > > >> My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > >> > > >> July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. > > >>> > > >>> Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do > > >>> within > > >>> the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer > > >>> spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! > > >>> > > >>> At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it > > >>> just > > >>> runs > > >>> THoughts? > > >>> Bob > > >>> ___ > > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >> ___ > > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > ___ > > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO:
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold - What about it's EVSE?
What is the 120v EVSE like that comes with the Bolt? Does it allow 16 amp operation on a 20 amp outlet? Is that setting made in the EVSE or in the car. It would seem to me to be an EVSE function because the EVSE does not know what it is plugged into and you wouldnt want an EV to ask for 16 amps when the EVSE is plugged into only a 15 amp circuit. BOb On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 4:02 PM Jay Summet via EV wrote: > > My guess is that it would work fine at 120 volt charging (but your > charging speed may be slow, as alot of the power would be going to > condition the battery.) > > Generally, the only thing in the car that sees the 120v is the battery > charger (taking the 120 volts up to the 3-4 hundred volts the battery uses. > > Everything else in the car runs off of either the HV battery system, or > the 12v accessory system (which is powered by a DC2DC converter from the > HV battery system. > > So as far as the car is concerned, the voltage of the input charging > system does not matter. > > The only issue I see is that at 120 volts, you can only get 1-1.5 kW > into the vehicle, and if the battery heater takes 1.8 kW, continuously > it may not be able to keep the battery heated without discharging the > battery. > > For this reason there may be a software lock that prevents cabin heating > or battery heating when plugged into 120 voltsbut I kind of doubt it. > > Jay > > On 7/30/21 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > > Thanks! > > My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging. > > My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only > > access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to > > switch to 240v. > > > > So, does BMS work on 120v? What about "remote start" (compartment > > conditioning? > > > > Bob > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV > > wrote: > >> > >> If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range > >> reduction? > >> > >> From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature > >> drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal management system > >> will turn on. > >> > >> So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the > >> battery temp should stay around 37 degrees. > >> > >> I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will > >> occasionally here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool. I > >> haven't noticed them doing this when not plugged in. Then again, where I > >> live it only occasionaly get's above 95. > >> > >> > >> My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > >> > >> July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: > >> > >>> Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. > >>> > >>> Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within > >>> the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer > >>> spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! > >>> > >>> At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just > >>> runs > >>> THoughts? > >>> Bob > >>> ___ > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> ___ > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on ?Right to Repair? enforcement
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:56:46 -0700 From: "Mr. Snarkey" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on ?Right to Repair? enforcement Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > You just don't know what you are missing I would encourage you to refrain from making assumptions on which you have no basis to make a judgement. My "conversion" is a factory conversion, not a home-built conversion It nicely handles my needs, which are modest I ~have~ driven it "cross county", but I don't expect that you'd know how or why Some of us on the EVDL have different needs from yours. Mine include not driving a bug-eyed clown car that I can't fix myself. If they are so wonderful, why did it take three of them to go 160k? But I'd never assume to judge you or your needs based on mine Enjoy your solar car fantasies, everyone needs to dream Mr. Snarky, The EVDL is about sharing knowledge. Please enlighten us on how you can drive a factory conversion cross country and what that factory conversion was? In my case the first was a lease. By 30k miles it was obvious the 2012 Leaf battery was a bummer. We didn't buy that lease out. The second bought used was a 2013 Leaf for $14k 0% Nissan approved used car loan. 2,400 miles on the clock. It was like new. Paid off in 5 years at $256 a month. We just paid the simple principal. That car has over 60k miles on it. I just drove it 50 miles to Napa CA. It still had 52% charge left. Got a free Volta charge for the return trip. The third Leaf was $13,550 total including incentives and lease cost($216 a month for 3 years) plus $9,500 dollar buyout after lease. This car also has over 60k on the clock and we can coax 135 miles out of it down wind at 55mph. I will never again depend on anything I build as the cost to benefit just isn't worth it unless I can work with the dregs of the EV world. For instance an eGo scooter(got it free) modified with a couple of $100 dollar 12v Valence batteries. Had to baby it up hills. Worked reasonably well for around San Francisco. One of a kind. It's now hard to get Valence 40ah batteries for $100. I spent over 10k dollars for an abandoned conversion including a pallet of 8v batteries. It to was the first of the bubble cars http://www.evalbum.com/418 I stuffed 1,200 pounds of lead in and succeeded in not losing any interior space. It was good for the 2000's but didn't hold a candle to a simple Leaf and because of that I drove veggie diesel for a decade. Because of all these things including vegetable oil taking over my house I couldn't be more happy with my bug eyed car which I am sure if I had to I could simply diagnose and bolt in the proper part when needed...how hard could it be? So happy not to be wrenching unless I "want" to. Yes. I hold strong opinions due to experience which I hope not to repeat. BTW solar cars are not fantasy https://solarteameindhoven.nl/ One just has to give up steel vehicles. Lawrence Rhodes ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Two Sparrows for Sale - Seattle Area
I've lowered the price on these: https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/snw/d/poulsbo-corbin-sparrow/7357972484.h tml I think the link is good till Aug 4th. Greg -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/d54be786/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold
My guess is that it would work fine at 120 volt charging (but your charging speed may be slow, as alot of the power would be going to condition the battery.) Generally, the only thing in the car that sees the 120v is the battery charger (taking the 120 volts up to the 3-4 hundred volts the battery uses. Everything else in the car runs off of either the HV battery system, or the 12v accessory system (which is powered by a DC2DC converter from the HV battery system. So as far as the car is concerned, the voltage of the input charging system does not matter. The only issue I see is that at 120 volts, you can only get 1-1.5 kW into the vehicle, and if the battery heater takes 1.8 kW, continuously it may not be able to keep the battery heated without discharging the battery. For this reason there may be a software lock that prevents cabin heating or battery heating when plugged into 120 voltsbut I kind of doubt it. Jay On 7/30/21 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Thanks! My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging. My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to switch to 240v. So, does BMS work on 120v? What about "remote start" (compartment conditioning? Bob On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range reduction? From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal management system will turn on. So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the battery temp should stay around 37 degrees. I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool. I haven't noticed them doing this when not plugged in. Then again, where I live it only occasionaly get's above 95. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just runs THoughts? Bob ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
> On security: there are ways to guarantee local physical presence before > software/firmware is changed. A physical write-protect switch or a jumper > that must be moved is one of them. Some computers have required this kind > of thing before BIOS updates could be made. Most farmers are "physically" at their tractor when they load the hacked software with who knows what "extra features" created by the hackers. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on “Right to Repair” enforcement
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key July 29, 2021 10:50 AM, "EVDL Administrator via EV" wrote: > On 28 Jul 2021 at 20:41, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote: > >> What finally killed [the Ford Focus EV] in my mind was that if it >> needed more than the windshield washer fluid checked or brake pads >> replaced, the stealership would be helpless and it would probably be >> trucked to Portland (3 hours away) for service. > > Ford doesn't teach dealer mechanices how to work on the cars their dealers > sell? > The dealer has to send them to training. In the town near me all of the 'dealers' are all owned by Lawley: Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, etc. Up until recently Lawley refused to support EVs, they wouldn't sell them, etc. I see they now have two 2021 Kia Nero EVs and 1 Niro plug in hybrid on their lot, but no other EVs or plug in Hybrids. They do service the parts that are common with ICEs: brakes, onboard computers, etc. but from what I understand they don't do anything with the high voltage components. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold
Thanks! My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging. My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to switch to 240v. So, does BMS work on 120v? What about "remote start" (compartment conditioning? Bob On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > > If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range > reduction? > > From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature > drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal management system > will turn on. > > So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the > battery temp should stay around 37 degrees. > > I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally > here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool. I haven't noticed > them doing this when not plugged in. Then again, where I live it only > occasionaly get's above 95. > > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: > > > Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. > > > > Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within > > the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer > > spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! > > > > At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just > > runs > > THoughts? > > Bob > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold
If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range reduction? >From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature >drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal management system will >turn on. So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the battery temp should stay around 37 degrees. I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool. I haven't noticed them doing this when not plugged in. Then again, where I live it only occasionaly get's above 95. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" wrote: > Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. > > Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within > the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer > spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! > > At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just > runs > THoughts? > Bob > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] toyota is still a laggard
Toyota has been dealing themselves many self-inflicted wounds, some of them outlined in the article. I work with people from Toyota regularly, and am frequently surprised. But I’m really surprised at some of the misleading information that the article includes about hydrogen. I’ll leave it at that. Perhaps if more interest is Toyota’s push for more dependence on hybrids in the short term. For decades now, I’ve been antagonistic towards hybrids as a clean air technology, preferring a stronger push to zero emissions, and in recent years, eliminating all incentives to purchase hybrids. But a recent piece posted on LinkedIn by the CEO of Toyota Research Institute has started to make me want to re-think my long-held view. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-6823377504531808256-lBUY I’m not ready to do drastically change my view without a lot more thought, but found the piece interesting enough to merit done consideration. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Jul 30, 2021, at 6:37 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > Toyota Led on Clean Cars. Now Critics Say It Works to Delay Them. > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-hydrogen.html > > The Toyota Prius hybrid was a milestone in the history of clean cars, > attracting millions of buyers worldwide who could do their part for the > environment while saving money on gasoline. > > But in recent months, Toyota, one of the world’s largest automakers, has > quietly become the industry’s strongest voice opposing an all-out transition > to electric vehicles — > ... > Behind that position is a business quandary: Even as other automakers have > embraced electric cars, Toyota bet its future on the development of hydrogen > fuel cells — a costlier technology that has fallen far behind electric > batteries — with greater use of hybrids in the near term. That means a rapid > shift from gasoline to electric on the roads could be devastating for the > company’s market share and bottom line. > ... > Together with other automakers, Toyota also sided with the Trump > administration in a battle with California over the Clean Air Act and sued > Mexico over fuel efficiency rules. In Japan, Toyota officials argued against > carbon taxes. > ... > Toyota, a major sponsor of the Tokyo Olympics, has used that platform to > promote its message of sustainability. Hydrogen fueled the Olympic torch for > part of its journey, and Toyota’s fleet of sleek Mirai hydrogen fuel cell > cars have been whisking Olympic dignitaries around Tokyo. > > Toyota is promoting itself as strongly backing a green transition, but in > effect, it is opposing efforts that others say are crucial to a swift green > transition. > ... > On paper, Toyota’s approach to zero-emissions vehicles, the hydrogen fuel > cell, is a dream: Unlike battery-powered electric vehicles, these cars carry > hydrogen tanks and fuel cells that turn the hydrogen into electricity. They > refuel and accelerate quickly, and can travel for several hundred miles on a > tank, emitting only water vapor. And hydrogen, theoretically, is abundant. > > But a high sticker price, as well as lack of refueling infrastructure, has > hampered the growth of a hydrogen economy, at least for passenger cars. > ... > The automaker, based in Toyota City, Japan, has begun lagging behind in fuel > efficiency across its entire fleet, as it has pushed sales of larger trucks > and sports-utility vehicles, which bring bigger profit margins. Environmental > Protection Agency figures show that Toyota has made relatively little > progress on fuel economy over the past five years, going from an industry > leader to part of the bottom tier, along with General Motors and Ford. > ... > There are several factors that could ultimately force Toyota’s hand. For one, > China, an important market for Toyota, has moved aggressively to require > automakers there to make electric vehicles. That has spurred Toyota to start > producing electric cars under a joint venture. > ... > > -- > > Peri > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210730/e06ee1fd/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] toyota is still a laggard
A quarter century ago, Toyota's legal tantrums worked for them here in the US, and their more recent whining about how tough EVs are for them has helped to keep Japan well behind the EU and China in EV adoption. * If Toyota had spent that money and effort on actually developing EVs, they might have something decent by now. They're running out of time to develop a good EV *and* a good rep as an EV company. They're going to need both to carry on with selling cars in France, Germany, Norway and the UK, because all of those nations have plans to ban the sale of ICEVs between 2030 and 2040. Toyota's execs are apparently determined to cling to their sinking Prius until they drown. * The numbers, in case you're curious: Japanese EV/PHEV sales in 2020 were down 28% from 2019, while in the EU they rose 137% (!) and in China they were up 12%. Even the US did better than 2019 with a 4% increase. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King Jr = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] toyota is still a laggard
Toyota Led on Clean Cars. Now Critics Say It Works to Delay Them. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-hydrogen.html The Toyota Prius hybrid was a milestone in the history of clean cars, attracting millions of buyers worldwide who could do their part for the environment while saving money on gasoline. But in recent months, Toyota, one of the world’s largest automakers, has quietly become the industry’s strongest voice opposing an all-out transition to electric vehicles — ... Behind that position is a business quandary: Even as other automakers have embraced electric cars, Toyota bet its future on the development of hydrogen fuel cells — a costlier technology that has fallen far behind electric batteries — with greater use of hybrids in the near term. That means a rapid shift from gasoline to electric on the roads could be devastating for the company’s market share and bottom line. ... Together with other automakers, Toyota also sided with the Trump administration in a battle with California over the Clean Air Act and sued Mexico over fuel efficiency rules. In Japan, Toyota officials argued against carbon taxes. ... Toyota, a major sponsor of the Tokyo Olympics, has used that platform to promote its message of sustainability. Hydrogen fueled the Olympic torch for part of its journey, and Toyota’s fleet of sleek Mirai hydrogen fuel cell cars have been whisking Olympic dignitaries around Tokyo. Toyota is promoting itself as strongly backing a green transition, but in effect, it is opposing efforts that others say are crucial to a swift green transition. ... On paper, Toyota’s approach to zero-emissions vehicles, the hydrogen fuel cell, is a dream: Unlike battery-powered electric vehicles, these cars carry hydrogen tanks and fuel cells that turn the hydrogen into electricity. They refuel and accelerate quickly, and can travel for several hundred miles on a tank, emitting only water vapor. And hydrogen, theoretically, is abundant. But a high sticker price, as well as lack of refueling infrastructure, has hampered the growth of a hydrogen economy, at least for passenger cars. ... The automaker, based in Toyota City, Japan, has begun lagging behind in fuel efficiency across its entire fleet, as it has pushed sales of larger trucks and sports-utility vehicles, which bring bigger profit margins. Environmental Protection Agency figures show that Toyota has made relatively little progress on fuel economy over the past five years, going from an industry leader to part of the bottom tier, along with General Motors and Ford. ... There are several factors that could ultimately force Toyota’s hand. For one, China, an important market for Toyota, has moved aggressively to require automakers there to make electric vehicles. That has spurred Toyota to start producing electric cars under a joint venture. ... -- Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold
Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example. Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter! At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just runs THoughts? Bob ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
