Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I happen to prefer smaller cars, despite being pretty tall.
I used to have a colleague who was 7 ft tall and still drove an average midsize 
car.
The only thing he did when buying a different car, was to move his specially 
made driver seat to the new car.

The joke with the extreme compact cars such as Fiat 500 and that Honda 600 and 
others, was that you would not get in or out the car, but you put it on (as a 
suit).

My wife also prefers a small car for her daily criss-crossing all over Silicon 
Valley, she was very happy when I informed her that I had found a nice 2013 
Prius C to replace her aging “Classic” 2002 Prius.
She has looked at the Bolt and that would be the only vehicle that she would 
accept as EV, having both the range that she needs to complete a day of visits 
and is still small enough, but larger than she would like. Her dream is a Tesla 
Roadster, we don’t want to spend the budget on that.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: EVDL Administrator via EV
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 12:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

On 10 Mar 2019 at 21:18, jim--- via EV wrote:

> However one of the big ones would be if I fit in the vehicle. 

I'm pretty much average sized by current US standards, and I can't think of 
a vehicle I have serious trouble getting into or out of.  So I don't worry 
too much about that.  I do understand that it's a problem for some folks.

But every time I hear someone else say that he has trouble fitting into a 
vehicle, I think of the fellow I watched unfold himself from a Honda 600 
coupe in 1973.  He was at least half a head taller than I was - I was then 
already 6' 0" - and probably weighed at least 250lb, maybe closer to 280.

I don't know what that says about either the driver or the car then, or 
about drivers and cars today, but I find it intriguing.

It may be a moot point though, since it appears that the trend in EVs is 
toward SUVs and crossovers, just as in ICEVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Willie via EV]

On 3/10/19 11:08 AM, Willie wrote:



On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:



I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. 
For some of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary 
reason for the purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first 
time ever, they have CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.


Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?

So what do people do? They compare them first hand.


At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming. 
  They have almost no competition.


Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I 
wasn’t aware of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state 
compares to one where there *are* stores.


Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not 


Bruce did take a cut on that but I lost it in the noise.

From my own googling about:
For 2018 in the USA, Tesla sales were a bit under 200k cars.  Mostly 
Model 3s but around 50k S+Xs.  Tesla has a bit more than 1% of the total 
car market in the USA.

Nearest BEV competitor seems to be the Bolt at a few more than 18k cars.

That seems pretty good justification for the statement that Tesla has 
almost no competition.  Each of the three Tesla models outsold the 
nearest competitor by a large margin.


I failed to find recent Texas sales figures for either Tesla or BEVs in 
general.





rivaling California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. 
Especially considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in 
California, Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several 
years, Tesla has lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government 
to allow direct sales.  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the 
attitude: "Screw 'em!  We will kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish 
them the best.

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Honda.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2019, at 3:57 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> So what brand of EV do you drive?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> how
> 
> 

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[paul dove via EV]

So what brand of EV do you drive?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:
> 
> how

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 10 Mar 2019 at 21:18, jim--- via EV wrote:

> However one of the big ones would be if I fit in the vehicle. 

I'm pretty much average sized by current US standards, and I can't think of 
a vehicle I have serious trouble getting into or out of.  So I don't worry 
too much about that.  I do understand that it's a problem for some folks.

But every time I hear someone else say that he has trouble fitting into a 
vehicle, I think of the fellow I watched unfold himself from a Honda 600 
coupe in 1973.  He was at least half a head taller than I was - I was then 
already 6' 0" - and probably weighed at least 250lb, maybe closer to 280.

I don't know what that says about either the driver or the car then, or 
about drivers and cars today, but I find it intriguing.

It may be a moot point though, since it appears that the trend in EVs is 
toward SUVs and crossovers, just as in ICEVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[jim--- via EV]

First, I said (in part):
> there is no way I would buy any car without having driven on. 

Then David Roden replied (in part):
> At one time I would have heartily agreed with this sentiment.  But after 
almost 5 decades of driving more different vehicles (owned, borrowed, 
rented) than I can count, I've discovered that I can learn to live with a 
lot of vehicle characteristics that I despised at first drive.


There is certainly truth to that statement.  However one of the big ones would 
be if I fit in the vehicle.  I'm a fairly large guy, and for example, in my 
wife's Corolla, I practically have to fold myself in half to get in and out of 
it.  Although it's not bad once I'm in, but getting in and out is a royal pain. 
 There is no way that could be my daily vehicle.


73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org


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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 10 Mar 2019 at 19:27, jim--- via EV wrote:

> there is no way I would buy any car without having driven on. 

At one time I would have heartily agreed with this sentiment.  But after 
almost 5 decades of driving more different vehicles (owned, borrowed, 
rented) than I can count, I've discovered that I can learn to live with a 
lot of vehicle characteristics that I despised at first drive.

True, there are vehicle types and sizes that I just don't care to own.  
FWIW, at the moment, Tesla doesn't offer a vehicle that I'd want.  

But as long as I'm OK with an EV's energy storage and drive system, the 
basic vehicle shape, functionality, and size, and the overall quality of 
construction, I can adjust to almost anything else.  So I think that if I'd 
read up sufficiently on a production EV and had a pretty good idea of what I 
was getting into, I'd be entirely willing to order an EV on the web and have 
it delivered. That would be ESPECIALLY true if the manufacturer offered to 
take it back if I didn't like it.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Good to hear.

It’s possible you will get a premium for your used Volt, as they are 
discontinuing it and has a large following.

Everyone I’ve heard from with a Bolt loves it, and there will be many more 
options out there when you are ready to part with your Bolt. The Tesla is 
setting a high bar, but you may find the market a whole new ball game when you 
are ready.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 6:51 PM, Rod Hower  wrote:
> 
> I drove a Model 3 dual motor and single this weekend.  I went to the dealer 
> in Cleveland, OH with a coworker in his Model X dual motor!  That thing is 
> awesome and accelerates like a rocket.  The dual motor Model 3 was very nice 
> and had incredible performance.  Even the single motor Model 3 had excellent 
> performance.  It was nice to drive both vehicles.  I currently have a 2014 
> Chevrolet Volt with 81K miles and it drives as nice as the Tesla, not the 
> same performance, but I still drive most miles on pure electric.  I'm hoping 
> the Volt gets another 100k miles and in 3-4 years I'll get a used Tesla model 
> 3 for a discount.  I was not impressed with the autopilot, I still like to 
> control my vehicle and it was kind of strange giving the vehicle control, I'm 
> not a fan yet.  
> 
> On ‎Sunday‎, ‎March‎ ‎10‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎09‎:‎40‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Mark Abramowitz 
> via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, I won’t argue with someone who thinks that a product has “almost no 
> competition”, though I disagree. But even among the Tesla’s, there is 
> competition.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
> >> 
> >> I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For 
> >> some of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for 
> >> the purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, 
> >> they have CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.
> >> Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?
> >> So what do people do? They compare them first hand.
> > 
> > At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming.  
> > They have almost no competition.
> > 
> >> Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t 
> >> aware of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to 
> >> one where there *are* stores.
> > 
> > Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not rivaling 
> > California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. Especially 
> > considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in California, 
> > Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several years, Tesla has 
> > lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government to allow direct 
> > sales.  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the attitude: "Screw 'em! 
> >  We will kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish them the best.
> > ___
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> 
> > 
> > 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[jim--- via EV]

Here's my two cents on the subject of no dealers.  And I completely agree with 
the description of car dealers as sharks.  This is likely considered an upper 
middle class neighborhood and we drove into the lots in a brand new Nissan 
Rogue (the rental she had after the accident).  We were dressed neatly but 
casual.

A year and a half ago, my wife needed to replace a car after the insurance paid 
for her previous van that had gotten totaled in an accident.  In our city (a 
little less than 2 miles from home), there are four dealerships right next to 
each other - Chevy, Toyota, Ford & Dodge - in that order.  We started at Chevy 
and ended at Dodge.  By the time we finished at the Dodge place, we were tired 
of car shopping and went home for some dinner.  Over dinner, she decided on a 
Toyota Corolla, so we called the dealer and let him know that we would be 
coming back to see him shortly.  We came back up to lease the car for three 
years with the expectation that we will likely buy out the lease after the 
three years.

Everyone knew that we were expecting to lease a car that day.  The attitude in 
the dealerships were very different.  The Chevy guys were the closest to 
stereotypical car dealers.  They were doing everything they could to sell to us 
before we walked off the lot.  Very pushy.  On the other extreme were the Dodge 
that were not at all treating us seriously.  I don't think they expected to 
sell a car that day.  The Toyota guy was a nice as you could imagine and 
treated us completely with respect.  

Within a 15 mile radius, there is dealership for almost every brand of cars 
that are available (excluding a few specialty brands).  The only cars that were 
considered were the ones that had a dealership close to home.  I somewhat 
expected her to want to visit a Nissan dealership because she really liked the 
Rogue that she was renting, but it was 10 miles in the other direction.  In 
case you are wondering, a Tesla model S was not even considered because of 
price and we could not wait for three months after ordering one.  The nearest 
Tesla store is about 20 miles away.

With all that said, there is no way I would buy any car without having driven 
on.  I have said for several years that I want a Model S so bad I can taste it, 
but other than seeing them on the road, I have never touched one.  Even if I 
won the lottery (I don't play), I would not buy one without driving one.  And 
no, I don't know anyone that has one.

Jim Walls
j...@k6ccc.org



-Original Message-
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 16:59
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

I agree that we won’t miss car dealers if they go away, as least if the 
experience is as it is now.

We call the gathering of salespeople waiting for you to get out of your car, 
the “sharks”. And there’s always one swimming out to get you.

I was amused when the Honda fleet person that I’ve bought from, who is not a 
shark, referred to the sales people as sharks one day when we chatted while my 
car was getting serviced.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 10:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> At this point in their venture, it seems online sales will be fine. After 
>> all, they have back orders they are struggling to meet, even for the S, I 
>> think.
> 
> It seems to me, for the models now offered at the pricing levels, that Tesla 
> is well balancing supply and demand.  Demand generators will the the $35k 3 
> and the Y.  With many more in the pipeline.  We all watch with interest to 
> see how it plays out.  I am very bullish on Tesla.  A the same time, 
> recognizing the risk.
>> However, at some point when they have real competition and their production 
>> has caught up, they may want to change their mind. Buying cars, while not an 
>> impulse purchase, certainly relies on touchy-feely appeal. Once a buyer sees 
>> a car, and a good sales person realizes the "connection", there's a process 
>> you can't replicate online.
> 
> I doubt that it is quantified, but there certainly seems to be a GREAT deal 
> of dissatisfaction with new car dealers and the car buying experience.  The 
> jury, of course, is still out but personally I don't think new car dealers 
> will be missed.
> 
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I drove a Model 3 dual motor and single this weekend.  I went to the dealer in 
Cleveland, OH with a coworker in his Model X dual motor!  That thing is awesome 
and accelerates like a rocket.  The dual motor Model 3 was very nice and had 
incredible performance.  Even the single motor Model 3 had excellent 
performance.  It was nice to drive both vehicles.  I currently have a 2014 
Chevrolet Volt with 81K miles and it drives as nice as the Tesla, not the same 
performance, but I still drive most miles on pure electric.  I'm hoping the 
Volt gets another 100k miles and in 3-4 years I'll get a used Tesla model 3 for 
a discount.  I was not impressed with the autopilot, I still like to control my 
vehicle and it was kind of strange giving the vehicle control, I'm not a fan 
yet.  

On ‎Sunday‎, ‎March‎ ‎10‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎09‎:‎40‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Mark Abramowitz 
via EV  wrote:  
 
 Well, I won’t argue with someone who thinks that a product has “almost no 
competition”, though I disagree. But even among the Tesla’s, there is 
competition.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>> 
>> I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For 
>> some of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for 
>> the purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, they 
>> have CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.
>> Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?
>> So what do people do? They compare them first hand.
> 
> At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming.  
> They have almost no competition.
> 
>> Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t 
>> aware of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to 
>> one where there *are* stores.
> 
> Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not rivaling 
> California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. Especially 
> considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in California, 
> Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several years, Tesla has 
> lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government to allow direct sales. 
>  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the attitude: "Screw 'em!  We will 
> kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish them the best.
> ___
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> 
> 

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Well, I won’t argue with someone who thinks that a product has “almost no 
competition”, though I disagree. But even among the Tesla’s, there is 
competition.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>> 
>> I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For 
>> some of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for 
>> the purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, they 
>> have CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.
>> Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?
>> So what do people do? They compare them first hand.
> 
> At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming.  
> They have almost no competition.
> 
>> Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t 
>> aware of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to 
>> one where there *are* stores.
> 
> Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not rivaling 
> California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. Especially 
> considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in California, 
> Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several years, Tesla has 
> lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government to allow direct sales. 
>  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the attitude: "Screw 'em!  We will 
> kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish them the best.
> ___
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> 
> 

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I agree that we won’t miss car dealers if they go away, as least if the 
experience is as it is now.

We call the gathering of salespeople waiting for you to get out of your car, 
the “sharks”. And there’s always one swimming out to get you.

I was amused when the Honda fleet person that I’ve bought from, who is not a 
shark, referred to the sales people as sharks one day when we chatted while my 
car was getting serviced.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 10:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> At this point in their venture, it seems online sales will be fine. After 
>> all, they have back orders they are struggling to meet, even for the S, I 
>> think.
> 
> It seems to me, for the models now offered at the pricing levels, that Tesla 
> is well balancing supply and demand.  Demand generators will the the $35k 3 
> and the Y.  With many more in the pipeline.  We all watch with interest to 
> see how it plays out.  I am very bullish on Tesla.  A the same time, 
> recognizing the risk.
>> However, at some point when they have real competition and their production 
>> has caught up, they may want to change their mind. Buying cars, while not an 
>> impulse purchase, certainly relies on touchy-feely appeal. Once a buyer sees 
>> a car, and a good sales person realizes the "connection", there's a process 
>> you can't replicate online.
> 
> I doubt that it is quantified, but there certainly seems to be a GREAT deal 
> of dissatisfaction with new car dealers and the car buying experience.  The 
> jury, of course, is still out but personally I don't think new car dealers 
> will be missed.
> 
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

No, I’m not Tesla unaware, though not familiar with all the details that you 
mention. And I know several very happy owners.  I also have a nearby Tesla 
“store” at a local mall that I like to visit. 

Your own experience would work fine for ME, though my wife may not go for it.

Putting aside the fact that the cars are gorgeous, what excites a guy like me 
is the zero tailpipe emission nature of the car.

But I’m not a normal consumer.

I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For some 
of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for the 
purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, they have 
CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.

Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?

So what do people do? They compare them first hand.

Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t aware 
of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to one where 
there *are* stores.

Again, like everyone else, I hope that I am wrong. If I am not, I think they 
will become a takeover target.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 5:18 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/9/19 2:12 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
>> I think that Musk was smoking something.
>> Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit in) 
>> first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology vehicles 
>> that I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla Roadster, 
>> Toyota Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc.
> 
> That sounds similar to Koch FUD.  It is hard for me to believe that you are 
> not familiar with Tesla's path to success and their accomplishments. You know 
> no Tesla owners?
> 
> You ignore several factors, including the bullet proof guarantee Peter 
> describes.  Also, that Tesla has quite successfully already proven a dealer 
> network unnecessary.  Many states, including mine, prohibit manufacturer 
> owned dealerships; in those states, all sales have been and continue to be 
> online. With that experience, Tesla is well aware of the value, or lack of 
> value, of dealers.  As you should know, Tesla has recruited owners to serve 
> as a sales force.  For the most part, owners are quite willing to serve 
> without compensation though in the past they have received some compensation.
> 
> Personal experience:  My first Tesla arrived in front of my house in 2013 on 
> a car transporter.  I had never before SEEN a Tesla, much less driven one.  I 
> was not disappointed.  Indeed, I was thrilled and never regretted the 
> purchase.  I believe we ordered our Leaf in 2010 and took delivery in 2011.  
> Sometime after the reservation, we we offered a pre-purchase test drive in a 
> demo but did not find the schedule convenient.  Our first Leaf drive was in 
> our own.  At the time we were not disappointed.  Again, "thrilled" would be a 
> good descriptor.  Coming from a 150+ mile conversion with an amp-hour 
> counter, I WAS disappointed in the sorry Leaf instrumentation.  But, that was 
> not a deal breaker. It was two years before I discovered that Nissan had so 
> screwed Leaf buyers with a miserable short lived battery which they refused 
> to support.
> 
> 
>> But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies.
> 
> Which adds to my surprise that you are so Tesla unaware.
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Willie via EV]

On 3/10/19 6:51 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

It is really no relevant since there is a test drive option on the web site and 
in addition Tesla says you can return in if you don’t like it up to 1000 miles.


I'm not certain, but I THINK the deal is you take a test drive OR you 
can return after purchase.


Incidentally, I don't think the change to online only has any impact in 
Texas and other states with similar dealer favoritism.  The potential 
customer has always been able to do test drives.  Two types of Tesla 
brick and mortar facilities here: Service Centers where repair work is 
done and Galleries where potential customers can view new cars, arrange 
test drives, discuss features with Tesla personnel.  Just no arranging 
sales, talking price, or payment.  However, Gallery people can guide the 
potential customers through the ordering process on Tesla web connected 
computers.  I believe Service Centers do not offer test drives.  It is 
VERY easy for a potential customer to make connections to Tesla owners 
for at least demonstration rides.


Typically, Service Centers outnumber Galleries.  Both currently are only 
in larger towns.  Austin, Dallas/FtWorth/Plano, Houston.  I believe San 
Antonio has only a Service Center.


I know from Tesla groups that there are at least a few owners in smaller 
towns.  Lubbock, Texarkana, Victoria, etc.  Maybe 100+ miles from a 
Service Center.  When sufficient demand develops, Tesla tends to put in 
Service Centers at owner clusters.  Isolated (as well as not isolated) 
owners are given extraordinary consideration when service is needed. 
Ranger service even when the car can be driven and towing as well as 
loaners.

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Willie via EV]

On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:



I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For some 
of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for the 
purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, they have 
CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.

Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?

So what do people do? They compare them first hand.


At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming. 
 They have almost no competition.



Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t aware 
of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to one where 
there *are* stores.


Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not 
rivaling California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. 
Especially considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in 
California, Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several 
years, Tesla has lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government 
to allow direct sales.  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the 
attitude: "Screw 'em!  We will kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish 
them the best.

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Willie via EV]

On 3/10/19 10:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
At this point in their venture, it seems online sales will be fine. 
After all, they have back orders they are struggling to meet, even for 
the S, I think.


It seems to me, for the models now offered at the pricing levels, that 
Tesla is well balancing supply and demand.  Demand generators will the 
the $35k 3 and the Y.  With many more in the pipeline.  We all watch 
with interest to see how it plays out.  I am very bullish on Tesla.  A 
the same time, recognizing the risk.


However, at some point when they have real competition and their 
production has caught up, they may want to change their mind. Buying 
cars, while not an impulse purchase, certainly relies on touchy-feely 
appeal. Once a buyer sees a car, and a good sales person realizes the 
"connection", there's a process you can't replicate online.


I doubt that it is quantified, but there certainly seems to be a GREAT 
deal of dissatisfaction with new car dealers and the car buying 
experience.  The jury, of course, is still out but personally I don't 
think new car dealers will be missed.


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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Peri Hartman via EV]

At this point in their venture, it seems online sales will be fine. 
After all, they have back orders they are struggling to meet, even for 
the S, I think.


However, at some point when they have real competition and their 
production has caught up, they may want to change their mind. Buying 
cars, while not an impulse purchase, certainly relies on touchy-feely 
appeal. Once a buyer sees a car, and a good sales person realizes the 
"connection", there's a process you can't replicate online.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 10-Mar-19 5:18:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only




On 3/9/19 2:12 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

I think that Musk was smoking something.

Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit in) 
first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology vehicles that 
I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla Roadster, Toyota 
Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc.


That sounds similar to Koch FUD.  It is hard for me to believe that you are not 
familiar with Tesla's path to success and their accomplishments. You know no 
Tesla owners?

You ignore several factors, including the bullet proof guarantee Peter 
describes.  Also, that Tesla has quite successfully already proven a dealer 
network unnecessary.  Many states, including mine, prohibit manufacturer owned 
dealerships; in those states, all sales have been and continue to be online. 
With that experience, Tesla is well aware of the value, or lack of value, of 
dealers.  As you should know, Tesla has recruited owners to serve as a sales 
force.  For the most part, owners are quite willing to serve without 
compensation though in the past they have received some compensation.

Personal experience:  My first Tesla arrived in front of my house in 2013 on a car 
transporter.  I had never before SEEN a Tesla, much less driven one.  I was not 
disappointed.  Indeed, I was thrilled and never regretted the purchase.  I believe we 
ordered our Leaf in 2010 and took delivery in 2011.  Sometime after the reservation, we 
we offered a pre-purchase test drive in a demo but did not find the schedule convenient.  
Our first Leaf drive was in our own.  At the time we were not disappointed.  Again, 
"thrilled" would be a good descriptor.  Coming from a 150+ mile conversion with 
an amp-hour counter, I WAS disappointed in the sorry Leaf instrumentation.  But, that was 
not a deal breaker. It was two years before I discovered that Nissan had so screwed Leaf 
buyers with a miserable short lived battery which they refused to support.




But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies.


Which adds to my surprise that you are so Tesla unaware.
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[paul dove via EV]

It is really no relevant since there is a test drive option on the web site and 
in addition Tesla says you can return in if you don’t like it up to 1000 miles. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:
> 
> I think that Musk was smoking something.
> 
> Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit in) 
> first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology vehicles 
> that I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla Roadster, 
> Toyota Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc. 
> 
> But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies. 
> 
> Then again, for the ones that I did get, I did get to drive first. And my 
> guess is that my wife would veto any car purchase without driving it first.
> 
> People like me that would buy a Tesla because of the technology, for the most 
> part already have one.
> 
> We’re now starting to get into the mass market. I think it’s ridiculous to 
> think that many people will buy online, at least to the extent that you need 
> to be a successful company.
> 
> I really hope that I’m wrong, and that Musk has some research to back up this 
> move.
> 
> My 2¢.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2019, at 7:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
>> Peri
>> 
>> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/
>> 
>> Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost 
>> cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market 
>> sedan for $35,000.
>> ...
>> To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open as 
>> galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.
>> ...
>> The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by 6 
>> percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.
>> ...
>> Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said he 
>> believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to buy 
>> things online.”
>> ...
>> Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s enough 
>> pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the starting price 
>> of $35,000.
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Willie via EV]

On 3/9/19 2:12 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

I think that Musk was smoking something.

Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit in) 
first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology vehicles that 
I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla Roadster, Toyota 
Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc.


That sounds similar to Koch FUD.  It is hard for me to believe that you 
are not familiar with Tesla's path to success and their accomplishments. 
You know no Tesla owners?


You ignore several factors, including the bullet proof guarantee Peter 
describes.  Also, that Tesla has quite successfully already proven a 
dealer network unnecessary.  Many states, including mine, prohibit 
manufacturer owned dealerships; in those states, all sales have been and 
continue to be online. With that experience, Tesla is well aware of the 
value, or lack of value, of dealers.  As you should know, Tesla has 
recruited owners to serve as a sales force.  For the most part, owners 
are quite willing to serve without compensation though in the past they 
have received some compensation.


Personal experience:  My first Tesla arrived in front of my house in 
2013 on a car transporter.  I had never before SEEN a Tesla, much less 
driven one.  I was not disappointed.  Indeed, I was thrilled and never 
regretted the purchase.  I believe we ordered our Leaf in 2010 and took 
delivery in 2011.  Sometime after the reservation, we we offered a 
pre-purchase test drive in a demo but did not find the schedule 
convenient.  Our first Leaf drive was in our own.  At the time we were 
not disappointed.  Again, "thrilled" would be a good descriptor.  Coming 
from a 150+ mile conversion with an amp-hour counter, I WAS disappointed 
in the sorry Leaf instrumentation.  But, that was not a deal breaker. 
It was two years before I discovered that Nissan had so screwed Leaf 
buyers with a miserable short lived battery which they refused to support.





But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies.


Which adds to my surprise that you are so Tesla unaware.
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Peter Eckhoff via EV]

As I understand it, Tesla will drop off the car of your build at your
address to let you test drive it for a week. If you don’t like it, they’ll
come on by and pick it up.  Otherwise, it’s yours.

You don’t go to the dealer, the dealer comes to you.  Yeah, it’s
different.  Very different.  It’s going to take some getting used to
especially for us who grew up and have bought several cars the traditional
way.

Still, I’ve been seriously considering buying a Tesla because of their Long
Range models, charging times, and charging network.  How am I going to do
that now?

It’s going to separate the serious buyer from the not so serious to
frivolous car tester.

I hope they succeed.

Peter

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:40 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> I think that Musk was smoking something.
>
> Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit
> in) first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology
> vehicles that I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla
> Roadster, Toyota Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc.
>
> But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies.
>
> Then again, for the ones that I did get, I did get to drive first. And my
> guess is that my wife would veto any car purchase without driving it first.
>
> People like me that would buy a Tesla because of the technology, for the
> most part already have one.
>
> We’re now starting to get into the mass market. I think it’s ridiculous to
> think that many people will buy online, at least to the extent that you
> need to be a successful company.
>
> I really hope that I’m wrong, and that Musk has some research to back up
> this move.
>
> My 2¢.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Mar 1, 2019, at 7:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
> > Peri
> >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/
> >
> > Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost
> cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market
> sedan for $35,000.
> > ...
> > To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open
> as galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.
> > ...
> > The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by
> 6 percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.
> > ...
> > Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said
> he believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to buy
> things online.”
> > ...
> > Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s
> enough pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the
> starting price of $35,000.
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190301/e7abb83d/attachment.html
> >
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> >
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I think that Musk was smoking something.

Personally, I would NEVER buy a car without driving it (or at least sit in) 
first. The only exception would be for brand new clean technology vehicles that 
I *knew* I wanted - think EV1, RAV-4 EV,  Civic GX, Tesla Roadster, Toyota 
Mirai, Honda Clarity, etc. 

But I’m an air quality guy, and an early adopter of these technologies. 

Then again, for the ones that I did get, I did get to drive first. And my guess 
is that my wife would veto any car purchase without driving it first.

People like me that would buy a Tesla because of the technology, for the most 
part already have one.

We’re now starting to get into the mass market. I think it’s ridiculous to 
think that many people will buy online, at least to the extent that you need to 
be a successful company.

I really hope that I’m wrong, and that Musk has some research to back up this 
move.

My 2¢.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 7:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
> Peri
> 
> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/
> 
> Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost 
> cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market 
> sedan for $35,000.
> ...
> To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open as 
> galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.
> ...
> The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by 6 
> percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.
> ...
> Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said he 
> believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to buy things 
> online.”
> ...
> Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s enough 
> pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the starting price 
> of $35,000.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I have just ordered our Model 3. Hopefully it will be the last
car that we will buy.
Bobby Keeland

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 11:33 AM Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

> I assume they have looked at the percentage of orders they get online vs
> at their local stores when they make this decision.
>
> If the demand from online sales channels is already more than they can
> manufacture, why bother keeping the regular stores? (other than as
> service locations).
>
> If I had a spare $35,000 sitting around I would have no problems buying
> the base Model 3 online given their generous no questions asked money
> back trial period.
>
> Jay
>
> On 3/1/19 10:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> > Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
> > Peri
> >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/
> >
> >
> > Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost
> > cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market
> > sedan for $35,000.
> > ...
> > To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open
> > as galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.
> > ...
> > The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by
> > 6 percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.
> > ...
> > Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said
> > he believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to
> > buy things online.”
> > ...
> > Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s
> > enough pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the
> > starting price of $35,000.
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <
> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190301/e7abb83d/attachment.html>
>
> >
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Jay Summet via EV]

I assume they have looked at the percentage of orders they get online vs 
at their local stores when they make this decision.


If the demand from online sales channels is already more than they can 
manufacture, why bother keeping the regular stores? (other than as 
service locations).


If I had a spare $35,000 sitting around I would have no problems buying 
the base Model 3 online given their generous no questions asked money 
back trial period.


Jay

On 3/1/19 10:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
Peri

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/ 



Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost 
cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market 
sedan for $35,000.

...
To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open 
as galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.

...
The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by 
6 percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.

...
Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said 
he believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to 
buy things online.”

...
Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s 
enough pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the 
starting price of $35,000.

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