Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 16 May 2019, at 14:18, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/16/2019 3:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13 May 2019, at 20:48, Philip Thrift >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> 
 On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health
  
 
 ...
 Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf and blind 
 apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and humankind was faced with 
 a world of inanimate, meaningless matter, upon which it projected its 
 psyche – its aliveness, meaning and purpose – only in fantasy.
 ...
 The bifurcation of mind and nature was at the root of immeasurable secular 
 progress –  medical and technological advance, the rise of individual 
 rights and social justice, to name just a few. It also protected us all 
 from being bound up in the inherent uncertainty and flux of nature. It 
 gave us a certain omnipotence – just as it gave science empirical control 
 over nature – and most of us readily   accept, 
 and willingly spend, the inheritance bequeathed by it, and rightly so.
 
 In the face of an indifferent and unresponsive world that neglects to 
 render our experience meaningful outside of our own minds  –  for 
 nature-as-mechanism is powerless to do this  –
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, nature does not even exist as mechanism, so the notion of 
>>> “nature-as-mechanism” is globally non sensical, yet locally, it works for 
>>> person supported by highly probable computations, but nature becomes a 
>>> projection, like in a dream.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
  our minds have been left fixated on empty representations of a world that 
 was once its source and being.
>>> 
>>> That is due to the reductionist conception of machine and number. Today, we 
>>> can defeat it, mathematically.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 All we have, if we are lucky to have them, are therapists and parents who 
 try to take on what is, in reality, and given the magnitude of the loss, 
 an impossible task.
>>> 
>>> The loss is due to the separation of theology from science, and the 
>>> impeaching of the fundamental questioning for a long period. 
>>> That has led to the separation of human sciences and exact science, making 
>>> them both into pseudo-metaphysics and pseudo-religion. Then we see only the 
>>> “superficial” technologies, without understanding of what they implies. To 
>>> separate science and theologies is a con artist trick to steal your money, 
>>> and in passing, your soul.
>>> 
>>> When “equated” with the machine, the negative pessimist will say, “oh 
>>> damned I am only a machine”, but the positive optimistic will say, “nice, 
>>> so machine can be as nice as I am”.
>>> 
>>> The interesting thing is only that this can be tested. Mechanism has 
>>> observable consequences.
>>> 
>>> Bruno
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 ...
 
 "How did we ever get the notion of the mind as something distinct from the 
 body? Why did this bad idea enter our culture?”
 -- Richard Rorty
 https://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/april13/rorty-041305.html 
 
 
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem (aligning with the above article by psychotherapist James 
>>> Barnes [ https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-barnes-msc-ma-90766b159/ 
>>>  ]) is that 
>>> there is no (A) mind and the body (or matter), there are (B) experiences of 
>>> the body (matter).
>> 
>> But that is still a local description. In the “big picture”, the notion of 
>> “matter” (primitive matter, ontological matter, needed-to-be-assumed matter) 
>> makes no sense (assuming mechanism). 
>> 
>> Yes, we can criticise the terming “mind & body”, which is dualistic.
>> 
>> But to say that there are experience of the body, is as much criticisable. 
>> How could a body have experience?
> 
> By processing information.

That use the digital mechanist theory. Then the question is, how that body, if 
it is an ontological object, select the computation supported by that body 
among all computations supporting that information processing in arithmetic?




> 
>> Only a mind, a person, can have experiences. And matter is one of those 
>> experience. 
> 
> That's looking at it backwards.  It's assuming that a person is something 
> separable from the experiences;

But with mechanism, the person is the owner of the first person experience, and 
the of the memories of them. It is not separable from the experience, only 

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 5/16/2019 3:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 13 May 2019, at 20:48, Philip Thrift > wrote:




On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:



On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > wrote:



https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health


...
Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf
and blind apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and
humankind was faced with a world of inanimate, meaningless
matter, upon which it projected its psyche – its aliveness,
meaning and purpose – only in fantasy.
...
The bifurcation of mind and nature was at the root of
immeasurable secular progress –  medical and technological
advance, the rise of individual rights and social justice, to
name just a few. It also protected us all from being bound up in
the inherent uncertainty and flux of nature. It gave us a
certain omnipotence – just as it gave science empirical control
over nature – and most of us readily accept, and willingly
spend, the inheritance bequeathed by it, and rightly so.

In the face of an indifferent and unresponsive world that
neglects to render our experience meaningful outside of our own
minds  –  for nature-as-mechanism is powerless to do this  –



Yes, nature does not even exist as mechanism, so the notion of
“nature-as-mechanism” is globally non sensical, yet locally, it
works for person supported by highly probable computations, but
nature becomes a projection, like in a dream.





 our minds have been left fixated on empty representations of a
world that was once its source and being.


That is due to the reductionist conception of machine and number.
Today, we can defeat it, mathematically.





All we have, if we are lucky to have them, are therapists and
parents who try to take on what is, in reality, and given the
magnitude of the loss, an impossible task.


The loss is due to the separation of theology from science, and
the impeaching of the fundamental questioning for a long period.
That has led to the separation of human sciences and exact
science, making them both into pseudo-metaphysics and
pseudo-religion. Then we see only the “superficial” technologies,
without understanding of what they implies. To separate science
and theologies is a con artist trick to steal your money, and in
passing, your soul.

When “equated” with the machine, the negative pessimist will say,
“oh damned I am only a machine”, but the positive optimistic will
say, “nice, so machine can be as nice as I am”.

The interesting thing is only that this can be tested. Mechanism
has observable consequences.

Bruno






...

"How did we ever get the notion of the mind as something
distinct from the body? Why did this bad idea enter our culture?”
-- Richard Rorty
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/april13/rorty-041305.html








The problem (aligning with the above article by psychotherapist James 
Barnes [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-barnes-msc-ma-90766b159/ ]) is that 
there is no (A) mind *and* the body (or matter), there are (B) 
experiences *of* the body (matter).


But that is still a local description. In the “big picture”, the 
notion of “matter” (primitive matter, ontological matter, 
needed-to-be-assumed matter) makes no sense (assuming mechanism).


Yes, we can criticise the terming “mind & body”, which is dualistic.

But to say that there are experience of the body, is as much 
criticisable. How could a body have experience?


By processing information.

Only a mind, a person, can have experiences. And matter is one of 
those experience.


That's looking at it backwards.  It's assuming that a person is 
something separable from the experiences; an error foisted on us by the 
grammar of Indo-european language.  In the Navajo language one would 
just say "There is experiencing" without implicitly postulating a 
subject.  Sure, matter is an inference from experience.  Physics is an 
empirical science.  Empirical observation is that only bodies report and 
behave as if they are having experiences and only if their brains have a 
certain level of electrochemical activity.









Speaking in the terminology of (A) has harmed mental health.


Any inadequate belief is the source of some suffering, soon or late.




(Now one can be an experience-monist psychotherapist - everything is 
experience - but then the therapist has to explain to the patient why 
they need a particular drug prescription.)


Yes, but the patient does not need the detailed explanation. A 
medication and a 

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 13 May 2019, at 15:27, John Clark  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
> 
> > At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's 
> > progress.
> 
> I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and half a dozen. 
> Mind is what the brain does and you can't *do* anything without the activity 
> of some thing.

I agree. 

Now, a *digital activity*, like the execution of a program by a universal 
machine, is equivalent with (special) number relations, a bit like the 
dynamical life of a person becomes a static 4 dimensional cone in space time. 

Bruno




> 
> 
> John K Clark
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
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>  
> .

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 13 May 2019, at 20:48, Philip Thrift  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> 
>> On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health 
>> 
>> ...
>> Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf and blind 
>> apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and humankind was faced with a 
>> world of inanimate, meaningless matter, upon which it projected its psyche – 
>> its aliveness, meaning and purpose – only in fantasy.
>> ...
>> The bifurcation of mind and nature was at the root of immeasurable secular 
>> progress –  medical and technological advance, the rise of individual rights 
>> and social justice, to name just a few. It also protected us all from being 
>> bound up in the inherent uncertainty and flux of nature. It gave us a 
>> certain omnipotence – just as it gave science empirical control over nature 
>> – and most of us readily accept, and willingly spend, the inheritance 
>> bequeathed by it, and rightly so.
>> 
>> In the face of an indifferent and unresponsive world that neglects to render 
>> our experience meaningful outside of our own minds  –  for 
>> nature-as-mechanism is powerless to do this  –
> 
> 
> Yes, nature does not even exist as mechanism, so the notion of 
> “nature-as-mechanism” is globally non sensical, yet locally, it works for 
> person supported by highly probable computations, but nature becomes a 
> projection, like in a dream.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>  our minds have been left fixated on empty representations of a world that 
>> was once its source and being.
> 
> That is due to the reductionist conception of machine and number. Today, we 
> can defeat it, mathematically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> All we have, if we are lucky to have them, are therapists and parents who 
>> try to take on what is, in reality, and given the magnitude of the loss, an 
>> impossible task.
> 
> The loss is due to the separation of theology from science, and the 
> impeaching of the fundamental questioning for a long period. 
> That has led to the separation of human sciences and exact science, making 
> them both into pseudo-metaphysics and pseudo-religion. Then we see only the 
> “superficial” technologies, without understanding of what they implies. To 
> separate science and theologies is a con artist trick to steal your money, 
> and in passing, your soul.
> 
> When “equated” with the machine, the negative pessimist will say, “oh damned 
> I am only a machine”, but the positive optimistic will say, “nice, so machine 
> can be as nice as I am”.
> 
> The interesting thing is only that this can be tested. Mechanism has 
> observable consequences.
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> ...
>> 
>> "How did we ever get the notion of the mind as something distinct from the 
>> body? Why did this bad idea enter our culture?”
>> -- Richard Rorty
>> https://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/april13/rorty-041305.html 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> The problem (aligning with the above article by psychotherapist James Barnes 
> [ https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-barnes-msc-ma-90766b159/ 
>  ]) is that there 
> is no (A) mind and the body (or matter), there are (B) experiences of the 
> body (matter).

But that is still a local description. In the “big picture”, the notion of 
“matter” (primitive matter, ontological matter, needed-to-be-assumed matter) 
makes no sense (assuming mechanism). 

Yes, we can criticise the terming “mind & body”, which is dualistic.

But to say that there are experience of the body, is as much criticisable. How 
could a body have experience? Only a mind, a person, can have experiences. And 
matter is one of those experience. 




> 
> Speaking in the terminology of (A) has harmed mental health.

Any inadequate belief is the source of some suffering, soon or late.


> 
> (Now one can be an experience-monist psychotherapist - everything is 
> experience - but then the therapist has to explain to the patient why they 
> need a particular drug prescription.)

Yes, but the patient does not need the detailed explanation. A medication and a 
brain does not need to have a material ontology for the medication doing its 
work. Like a chef does not need to know the biology and fundamental physics to 
prepare a Pizza.

Bruno 



> 
> @philipthrift
>  
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> To view this discussion on the web 

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health 
> 
> ...
> Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf and blind 
> apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and humankind was faced with a 
> world of inanimate, meaningless matter, upon which it projected its psyche 
> – its aliveness, meaning and purpose – only in fantasy.
> ...
> The bifurcation of mind and nature was at the root of immeasurable secular 
> progress – medical and technological advance, the rise of individual rights 
> and social justice, to name just a few. It also protected us all from being 
> bound up in the inherent uncertainty and flux of nature. It gave us a 
> certain omnipotence – just as it gave science empirical control over nature 
> – and most of us readily accept, and willingly spend, the inheritance 
> bequeathed by it, and rightly so.
>
> In the face of an indifferent and unresponsive world that neglects to 
> render our experience meaningful outside of our own minds – for 
> nature-as-mechanism is powerless to do this – 
>
>
>
> Yes, nature does not even exist as mechanism, so the notion of 
> “nature-as-mechanism” is globally non sensical, yet locally, it works for 
> person supported by highly probable computations, but nature becomes a 
> projection, like in a dream.
>
>
>
>
> our minds have been left fixated on empty representations of a world that 
> was once its source and being. 
>
>
> That is due to the reductionist conception of machine and number. Today, 
> we can defeat it, mathematically.
>
>
>
>
> All we have, if we are lucky to have them, are therapists and parents who 
> try to take on what is, in reality, and given the magnitude of the loss, an 
> impossible task.
>
>
> The loss is due to the separation of theology from science, and the 
> impeaching of the fundamental questioning for a long period. 
> That has led to the separation of human sciences and exact science, making 
> them both into pseudo-metaphysics and pseudo-religion. Then we see only the 
> “superficial” technologies, without understanding of what they implies. To 
> separate science and theologies is a con artist trick to steal your money, 
> and in passing, your soul.
>
> When “equated” with the machine, the negative pessimist will say, “oh 
> damned I am only a machine”, but the positive optimistic will say, “nice, 
> so machine can be as nice as I am”.
>
> The interesting thing is only that this can be tested. Mechanism has 
> observable consequences.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> ...
>
> "How did we ever get the notion of the mind as something distinct from the 
> body? Why did this bad idea enter our culture?”
>
> -- Richard Rorty
> https://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/april13/rorty-041305.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
The problem (aligning with the above article by psychotherapist James 
Barnes [ https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-barnes-msc-ma-90766b159/ ]) is 
that there is no (A) mind *and* the body (or matter), there are (B) 
experiences *of* the body (matter).

Speaking in the terminology of (A) has harmed mental health.

(Now one can be an experience-monist psychotherapist - everything is 
experience - but then the therapist has to explain to the patient why they 
need a particular drug prescription.)

@philipthrift
 

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health
> ...
> Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf and blind 
> apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and humankind was faced with a 
> world of inanimate, meaningless matter, upon which it projected its psyche – 
> its aliveness, meaning and purpose – only in fantasy.
> ...
> The bifurcation of mind and nature was at the root of immeasurable secular 
> progress –  medical and technological advance, the rise of individual rights 
> and social justice, to name just a few. It also protected us all from being 
> bound up in the inherent uncertainty and flux of nature. It gave us a certain 
> omnipotence – just as it gave science empirical control over nature – and 
> most of us readily accept, and willingly spend, the inheritance bequeathed by 
> it, and rightly so.
> 
> In the face of an indifferent and unresponsive world that neglects to render 
> our experience meaningful outside of our own minds  –  for 
> nature-as-mechanism is powerless to do this  –


Yes, nature does not even exist as mechanism, so the notion of 
“nature-as-mechanism” is globally non sensical, yet locally, it works for 
person supported by highly probable computations, but nature becomes a 
projection, like in a dream.




>  our minds have been left fixated on empty representations of a world that 
> was once its source and being.

That is due to the reductionist conception of machine and number. Today, we can 
defeat it, mathematically.




> All we have, if we are lucky to have them, are therapists and parents who try 
> to take on what is, in reality, and given the magnitude of the loss, an 
> impossible task.

The loss is due to the separation of theology from science, and the impeaching 
of the fundamental questioning for a long period. 
That has led to the separation of human sciences and exact science, making them 
both into pseudo-metaphysics and pseudo-religion. Then we see only the 
“superficial” technologies, without understanding of what they implies. To 
separate science and theologies is a con artist trick to steal your money, and 
in passing, your soul.

When “equated” with the machine, the negative pessimist will say, “oh damned I 
am only a machine”, but the positive optimistic will say, “nice, so machine can 
be as nice as I am”.

The interesting thing is only that this can be tested. Mechanism has observable 
consequences.

Bruno





> ...
> 
> "How did we ever get the notion of the mind as something distinct from the 
> body? Why did this bad idea enter our culture?”
> -- Richard Rorty
> https://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/april13/rorty-041305.html
> 
> 
> @philipthrift
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 11 May 2019, at 12:51, John Clark  wrote:
> 
> Separating mind from matter is no more ruinous than separating "fast" from 
> "racing car". Mind is what a brain does.

We can be OK with this.

But then with *digital* Mechanism, mind is what universal number does.

A brain is then an implementation of a universal number with respect to some 
subset of the physical laws, which have to emerges from all computations below 
my substitution level. That reduce physics to a (first person) statistic 
defined on arithmetic (and partially in arithmetic).

Bruno




> 
>  John K Clark
> 
> 
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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 8:27:38 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>
> > *At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's 
>> progress.*
>>
>
> I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and half a dozen. 
> Mind is what the brain does and you can't **do** anything without the 
> activity of some thing.
>
> John K Clark
>
>
>

One should always *mind* their language. :)

@philipthrift

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[John Clark]

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift  wrote:

> *At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's
> progress.*
>

I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and half a dozen.
Mind is what the brain does and you can't **do** anything without the
activity of some thing.

John K Clark

John K Clark




>
>

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 2:34 PM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>
> *> We talk about the sun and solar activities (like fusion, magnetic 
>> propagation, etc.) but we don't talk about solar activities distinct from 
>> the sun in any weird way,*
>
>
> You can't have solar activity without the sun, and there is nothing weird 
> about that. 
>
>>  
>
>> *> like people do with brain and mental activities (of the mind).*
>>
>
> You can't have brain activity without a brain, and there is nothing weird 
> about that either. 
>  
>
>> *> If "I" is an adjective, so is "you".*
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> > *You matter speaks strangely. *
>>
>
> My and probably your third grade English teacher is the one that spoke 
> strangely 
>
> John K Clark  
>
>
>
>
At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's 
progress.

Although to make a direct linguistic comparison to "solar activity" (not 
"sun activity") it would be "brainial activity". 

@philipthrift

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[John Clark]

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 2:34 PM Philip Thrift  wrote:

*> We talk about the sun and solar activities (like fusion, magnetic
> propagation, etc.) but we don't talk about solar activities distinct from
> the sun in any weird way,*


You can't have solar activity without the sun, and there is nothing weird
about that.

>

> *> like people do with brain and mental activities (of the mind).*
>

You can't have brain activity without a brain, and there is nothing weird
about that either.


> *> If "I" is an adjective, so is "you".*
>

Yes.

> *You matter speaks strangely. *
>

My and probably your third grade English teacher is the one that spoke
strangely

John K Clark





>

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 10:20:46 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 10:10 AM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>  
>
>> > "Brain", "mind", "psyche" are nouns. [ Wiktionary ]
>>
>
> And my third grade English teacher said "I" was a pronoun, she was 
> entirely wrong. "I" is an adjective describing how atoms behave when they 
> are organized in a johnkclarkian way,  
>
> *> What word are you referring to as an adjective?*
>>
>
> My iMac dictionary says an adjective is a word or phrase naming an 
> attribute related to a noun that modifies or describes it. This time the 
> dictionary is correct. Mind, an adjective, describes what a brain, a noun, 
> does.
>
>  John K Clark
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>> "Mental" and even "brainial" (uncommon) are adjectives.
>> We talk about the *sun* and *solar activities* (like fusion, magnetic 
>> propagation, etc.) but we don't talk about solar activities distinct from 
>> the sun in any weird way, like people do with brain and mental activities 
>> (of the mind).
>>
>> @philipthrift
>>
>>
>>
 

If "I" is an adjective, so is "you".

You matter speaks strangely. 

@philipthrift 


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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[John Clark]

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 10:10 AM Philip Thrift 
wrote:


> > "Brain", "mind", "psyche" are nouns. [ Wiktionary ]
>

And my third grade English teacher said "I" was a pronoun, she was entirely
wrong. "I" is an adjective describing how atoms behave when they are
organized in a johnkclarkian way,

*> What word are you referring to as an adjective?*
>

My iMac dictionary says an adjective is a word or phrase naming an
attribute related to a noun that modifies or describes it. This time the
dictionary is correct. Mind, an adjective, describes what a brain, a noun,
does.

 John K Clark






> "Mental" and even "brainial" (uncommon) are adjectives.
> We talk about the *sun* and *solar activities* (like fusion, magnetic
> propagation, etc.) but we don't talk about solar activities distinct from
> the sun in any weird way, like people do with brain and mental activities
> (of the mind).
>
> @philipthrift
>
> --
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/31648c7d-8e49-4e44-9f3e-774cb9e193b1%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 8:36:00 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 AM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
>
> > *That's a start to get away from the Cartesian delusion.*
>
>
> I agree it's silly to say mind has nothing to do with matter, but it's not 
> silly to say nouns are not the same as adjectives. Brain and mind do not 
> mean the same thing.
>

> John K Clark
>
>>
>>


"Brain", "mind", "psyche" are nouns. [ Wiktionary ]

What word are you referring to as an *adjective*?

"Mental" and even "brainial" (uncommon) are adjectives.

We talk about the *sun* and *solar activities* (like fusion, magnetic 
propagation, etc.) but we don't talk about solar activities distinct from 
the sun in any weird way, like people do with brain and mental activities 
(of the mind).

@philipthrift

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[John Clark]

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 AM Philip Thrift  wrote:

> *That's a start to get away from the Cartesian delusion.*


I agree it's silly to say mind has nothing to do with matter, but it's not
silly to say nouns are not the same as adjectives. Brain and mind do not
mean the same thing.

John K Clark

>
>

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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[Philip Thrift]

On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 5:52:29 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
>
> Separating mind from matter is no more ruinous than separating "fast" 
> from "racing car". Mind is what a brain does. 
>
>  John K Clark
>



"Mind" is one of those words that should be deprecated: 

The brain "does" (or processes) experiences, knowledge, intentions, ideas, 
... all that "mental" stuff.

In psychology, the *psyche* /ˈsaɪki/ is the totality of [what the brain 
"does"], conscious and unconscious.
[Wikipedia].

At least  "psyche" is not literally the word "mind". That's a start to get 
away from the Cartesian delusion.

@philipthrift






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Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

[John Clark]

Separating mind from matter is no more ruinous than separating "fast" from
"racing car". Mind is what a brain does.

 John K Clark

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