from:"howardmarks"

_
Phenomenology infers that there is a phenomenon_, and in the case of
telepathy and precognition, no phenomena can be demonstrated, whether
"unified" with emotion/communication etc., when falsifiable experiments
show every claim to be a "lookalike," such as conjuring (magician's
tricks), fakers like Uri Geller, random chance, liars, clever
opportunity seekers, coincidences, or flat misinterpretations, etc. The
total failure of precognition hotlines demonstrate that precognition is
unlikely to be a phenomenon - with a score of zero hits in probably
millions of submissions over maybe 20 years.

There are "treasure chests" of experiments, extremely thoroughly
investigated and documented by thousands of investigators for centuries,
including your suggested "unification." Look up the files in the
archives of randi.org , Dr Shermer's Skeptical Inquirer, Joseph Nichol's
work, CSICOP (now CSI, Committee for skeptical Inquiry) and a dozen
more, most discoverable with web searching. Randi has an excellent
library in Florida that should be accessible for research.

Cosmin, your example of your girlfriend and you "connecting" thru
facebook fails your own criteria, point 1:/ 1) Such precise sharable
details./
The only way to reconcile the failure to be specific - is to "believe
anyway."

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 5/26/2019 1:20 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
What ? You didn't realize this yet ? See ? This is why theories are
lacking (for telepathy, and consciousness generally), because people
simply fail to see some elements of phenomenology. If people fail to
see that consciousness is unified, they will search explanations for
telepathy in terms of "message transmission", which of course they
will fail. If people on the other hand notice that consciousness works
by unifications, they will start to search explanations for telepathy
in terms of unifications, and probably they will have more luck. So
the whole problem with theories of consciousness is not that
consciousness is "mysterious", is just that people fail to see key
aspects of phenomenology. Once those aspects are spotted, theories
will follow at once.

Now, the problem is: How are those elements of phenomenology to be
observed ? From my own thinking experience, the central element is
honesty. Honesty is much more important than intelligence of theories
learned by heart in schools, etc. If you are looking at consciousness
in an honest way, chances are you will spot lots of things and you
will be able to formulate theories. Otherwise, if you just want social
status (i.e. get a phd from Oxford, etc.) then good luck! Solving
consciousness is not for you.

On Sunday, 26 May 2019 16:59:34 UTC+3, John Clark wrote:

> /Consciousness works by unification:/

How nice for consciousness.

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Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

You are smarter than all of us, Cosmin!

On 5/26/2019 6:48 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
See ? You don't understand anything from what Bruno is saying. You
only spot the word "Turing", you also heard about the "Turing test",
and you shallowly concluded that that is what Bruno is talking about.
No. He is talking about all kinds of weird stuff, like numbers that
are alive.

But of course, people always want to show how smart they are, that's
why they play the "Of course I understand!!!" card. Sorry, this
doesn't work with me. I'm too smart to be tricked by such cheap tricks.

So let's wait for Bruno to tell us how are numbers alive.

On Saturday, 25 May 2019 20:19:49 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

Bruno's statement is quite understandable. Ya gotta know about the
work of Alan Turing (circa 1950's). He is referring to Turing's
test for human-like intelligent behavior manifestations (of
computers, machines) with the halting issue being whether it's
possible to discover whether an "intelligent" machine will, at
some point, halt or run "forever."
cheers! Howard Marks

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

When one observes a real phenomenon, then one can create (again
falsifiable) theories to explain the phenomenon. Telepathy is not such.

On 5/26/2019 3:59 PM, howardmarks wrote:
Endless experiments of what you suggest about
unification/telepathy/precognition/etc. together/separate/etc. has
been tested and tested and tested, under all sorts of circumstances
under all conditions thinkable. My father was a lifelong believer
things like telepathy and failure to confirm his beliefs didn't deter
him from believing, even though he was a good-thinking electronic
engineer with >12 patents (you can look him up in USPTO.gov , Meyer
Marks, before year 1975).

_
Phenomenology infers that there is a phenomenon_, and in the case of
telepathy and precognition, no phenomena can be demonstrated, whether
"unified" with emotion/communication etc., when falsifiable
experiments show every claim to be a "lookalike," such as conjuring
(magician's tricks), fakers like Uri Geller, random chance, liars,
clever opportunity seekers, coincidences, or flat misinterpretations,
etc. The total failure of precognition hotlines demonstrate that
precognition is unlikely to be a phenomenon - with a score of zero
hits in probably millions of submissions over maybe 20 years.

There are "treasure chests" of experiments, extremely thoroughly
investigated and documented by thousands of investigators for
centuries, including your suggested "unification." Look up the files
in the archives of randi.org , Dr Shermer's Skeptical Inquirer, Joseph
Nichol's work, CSICOP (now CSI, Committee for skeptical Inquiry) and a
dozen more, most discoverable with web searching. Randi has an
excellent library in Florida that should be accessible for research.

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 5/26/2019 1:20 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
What ? You didn't realize this yet ? See ? This is why theories are
lacking (for telepathy, and consciousness generally), because people
simply fail to see some elements of phenomenology. If people fail to
see that consciousness is unified, they will search explanations for
telepathy in terms of "message transmission", which of course they
will fail. If people on the other hand notice that consciousness
works by unifications, they will start to search explanations for
telepathy in terms of unifications, and probably they will have more
luck. So the whole problem with theories of consciousness is not that
consciousness is "mysterious", is just that people fail to see key
aspects of phenomenology. Once those aspects are spotted, theories
will follow at once.

Now, the problem is: How are those elements of phenomenology to be
observed ? From my own thinking experience, the central element is
honesty. Honesty is much more important than intelligence of theories
learned by heart in schools, etc. If you are looking at consciousness
in an honest way, chances are you will spot lots of things and you
will be able to formulate theories. Otherwise, if you just want
social status (i.e. get a phd from Oxford, etc.) then good luck!
Solving consciousness is not for you.

On Sunday, 26 May 2019 16:59:34 UTC+3, John Clark wrote:

> /Consciousness works by unification:/

How nice for consciousness.

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Haha! Yes, indeed!
In Florida and telephone, I had the privilege of talking to Randi, and
the "light" of truth and justice illuminating his person was marvelous!
He & Houdini had a lot in common - truth-seeking, and used their skills
as master magicians to spot deceit. Of course, it helped that Randi was
an amateur scientist early on. He inspired many, including Penn & Teller
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99_upx8URLI ).

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 5/26/2019 9:35 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 9:20 PM howardmarks <mailto:howardma...@doitnow.com>> wrote:

> in James Randi's case, he was saddened by the amount of fraud done
on innocent people who called themselves "psychic," telepathic,"
able to "talk with the dead" and so forth.

And Houdini did much the same thing a century ago. Scientist are good
at finding the truth by observing nature but stage magicians have a
better skill set at detecting the deceitfulness in people. I respect
Houdini and Randy because unlike slimeballs such as Uri Geller they
always said everything they did were just clever tricks but the
audience was entertained by trying to figure out how they did it.

By the way you can buy Uri Geller spoon bending trick on Ebay, it cost
$2.68

Spoon Bending Gimmick Close-up Street Magic Magician Trick
<https://www.ebay.com/p/Bend-Spoon-Bending-Gimmick-Close-up-Street-Magic-Magician-Trick/5022370241?iid=382886244151>

John K Clark

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Re: Trump Supporters?

2019-06-02 Thread howardmarks

I think the labels "fascist" or "liberal" of A. and B. are distortions. 
There are lots of con-artists, blowhards, cultured and/or intellectual 
people that have neither of those prejudicial labels.  I don't 
identify as either...

Cheers! HowardM

On 6/2/2019 11:53 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

Because B lies all the more to try to get elected?

-Original Message-
From: Philip Thrift 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Jun 1, 2019 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Trump Supporters?

When America is presented a choice:

A. con-artist, blowhard fascist
B. cultured, intellectual liberal

A always has a chance of winning.

@philipthrift

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 1:43:56 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

We are weavers in the web that we wove. We are victims of this
technological marvel called the media, which now includes the
internet. Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister for the third
Reich, said that a lie repeated often enough assumes a life as a
"sort of truth." The media has becomes a crap-fest of nonsense
that pumps out half-truths and sometimes outright lies. With the
massive dollars behind this industry liberality based on evidence,
facts, and logic is simply drowned out in the huge decibel volume
against it. Donald t'Rump knows this as much as Goebbels did, and
t'Rump is a pure grifter and hustler.

LC

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:59:21 AM UTC-5, medinuclear wrote:

[*Philip Benjamin*]
Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by
America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist,
Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or */WAMP-the-Ingrate/*,
who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic.
Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely
KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!!
It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if
the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an
impartial investigation into the /politico/-/deep state-
media/ usurpation of the American government at all levels
from the City/County and State to the */Non-sovereign
Federation of the Sovereign States/*of this Constitutional
Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex
(http://constitution.org/sr/ lexrex.htm
).See /Lex Rex/ of
Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high
recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist
Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various
Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all
institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and
historic *First Great Awakening*. No other people EVER in the
annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such
ideas. *The Magna Carta* (/of “We the Nobles/”), the
*Mayflower Compact* and the Puritan */Mission Statement to
American Indians/* come close. Ignorance coupled with willful
disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial
campuses is a sure path to victory for
Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic
pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini
etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists.
https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/ americas-dangerous-historical-
ignorance/

Compare it wit https://www.cbsnews.com/news/
ignorance-of-history-is-no- joke/

*Philip Benjamin*
*~~*
*From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com
 *On Behalf Of *John Clark
*Sent:* Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:11 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Allah: the One and Only Deity
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal
 wrote:

>> From the Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 7 page 792:
/"The son of //God is
//omniscientandomnipotent//knowing history in
advance and being able to control its course//”./

/> //The Pope Jean-Paul 2 made explicit that all statement
of that kind are parabola and should never been taken
literally./

That's the exact same excuse Trump suporters use when they to
try to explain away his many many lies.

> /Of course, that is debated by some catholic, bu I have
still never met a christian who believe in the anything as
naive. /

You sure have not met many Christians!  I have never met a
Christian who didn't believe something exactly that naive. I
concede there are a few that have abandoned

Re: pain

2019-05-28 Thread howardmarks


Neat!!
Howard Marks

On 5/28/2019 12:39 PM, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote:

Apropos of Bruno's definition of  consciousness

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/290

Brent



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Re: Mark Twain's precognitive dream

2019-06-05 Thread howardmarks


Crackpot central indeed!   --

Just because a story reports something as true, doesn't mean it's 
true End of story.


On 6/5/2019 8:20 AM, John Clark wrote:

Yep, the Everything list is slowly turning into crackpot central.

John K Clark

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

I agree, Alan... Anecdotes are a starting point. But we have a good
handle on phenomena of the normal variety, including chemical, physical,
mathematical, and the like - including our own objects falling from the
sky!! The tireless work of CSICOP Michael Shermer, Randi, Ray Hyman, and
hundreds more - to take claims of the paranormal and investigate them,
has pretty well put the subject to bed Even the acronym, CSICOP,
tells the story: _C_ommittee for _S_cientific _I_nvestifation of
_C_laims of the _P_aranormal.

Only true believers like Cosmin, who don't investigate, are doomed to
hop from anecdote to anecdote and keep believing

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 6/10/2019 4:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 3:24:11 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote:

The statistics of ZERO is not mine, it's a worldwide finding by
many people after much hard work. Phenomena needs to be
demonstrable --- not mere fart-gas testimony or journal submissions.

*For most of mankind's existence, there were anecdotes that stones
fall from the sky, but it wasn't until the mid-19th century in France
that one fell through a farmhouse roof and was convincing. So I
wouldn't discount anecdotes unless you have a debunking agenda. AG*

*
*

Next you will be telling us that intercessional prayer works to
heal people.

... pointing to the church's pubs on it or that the shroud of
Turin is really the wrapping from Jesus Go check a doc yourself.

On 6/10/2019 3:49 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:

You probably are mentally ill or something if even in the face of
evidence you continue to say ZERO. Go check a doctor.

On Monday, 10 June 2019 22:34:31 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

NO exceptions, has ZERO hits

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

The statistics of ZERO is not mine, it's a worldwide finding by many
people after much hard work. Phenomena needs to be demonstrable --- not
mere fart-gas testimony or journal submissions.

CSICOP/CSI/Skeptical Inquirer/Shermer/Hyman/Randi/(and this list is
endless) - all got ZERO. Investigate that NIH article author call
em... you won't find anyone that can perform even statistically.
Prove us wrong. If you don't, and stick to anecdotes, then you may as
well adhere to beliefs of magical powers that deities have. Next you
will be telling us that intercessional prayer works to heal people
pointing to the church's pubs on it or that the shroud of Turin is
really the wrapping from Jesus Go check a doc yourself.

On 6/10/2019 3:49 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
You probably are mentally ill or something if even in the face of
evidence you continue to say ZERO. Go check a doctor.

On Monday, 10 June 2019 22:34:31 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

NO exceptions, has ZERO hits

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Well, what I mean by "misses" are when you have a "gut" feeling that 
something might be happening (death or harm to a loved one, a 9-1-1 type 
disaster, someone "calling" telepathically for you, someone needs you or 
you need them, etc., the list is endless..). 99+% of the time 
that gut feeling is wrong. Maybe once a year you get a confirmation that 
something happened to someone, but not like you envisioned or maybe 
different person Well, unless one gets it incontrovertibly, it's a 
miss. Occasionally, serendipitously, you may receive a telephone call or 
make one at what appears to be a crucial time... But what about all 
the crucial times when that call didn't come in ? Those are also 
"misses." But, not only do people not count those misses, people usually 
totally discard the whole memory of them, along with other temporary 
memories when these misses must be counted.


It's like the premonition hotlines -- yea lots of people predicted 
airplane crashes, boats hitting bridge supports, envisioned loved ones 
getting into accidents, etc. But there are dozens of plane crashes a 
year (usually smaller ones!) and lots of boat accidents. And, when those 
premonition hotline predictions were examined, the specific dates, 
specific identifiers of people, if any, N numbers of the aircraft, 
details, etc. events predicted, etc. were either absent or just 
incorrect. Not even one hit.


Randi's library in Plantation Florida or wherever he moved it when he 
retired - I spent hours poring through ... as he made many, many 
investigations of people who he thought may be candidates to demonstrate 
PSI it's amazing to realize just how unsuccessful he was. Not sure 
about your experiences - but examine the misses as I described above... 
which people usually don't count as possible hits!

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 6/10/2019 8:15 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:



On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:14:12 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote:

I've also had what I could call special occasioned "psychic"
experiences - but, in retrospect, being perfectly honest with
myself, I didn't count the tremendous of misses before and after I
had the so called, "hits." And, later, when I had what I thought I
was totally certain were more hits, they were misses.   Which
is when I realized that the _missed hits _are more important than
the hits unless one is not honest with oneself and the world.
Cheers! Howard Marks


I never had any "misses". All those experiences were unique and 
stand-alones. As for Clark, no point in discussing these experiences 
with a know-it-all fool. AG



On 6/10/2019 4:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:



On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 1:34:31 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote:

ALL well-conducted experiments for psi (even experiments to
test for "spontaneous occurrences"), NO exceptions, has ZERO
hits - except for unprovable personal claims of "subjective
experiences" like Cosmin's and Grayson's. Any positive
"reports" are either _anecdotal_, very terribly performed
under non-falsifiable hypotheses, or the statistics of small
numbers. The article Cosmin gave below from NIH is typical.
Extremely important tasks that an honest experimentalist
needs to do are to use a large N and properly randomize (if
statistics are employed), which are seldom done. And, as
Cosmin's article reports, often not taken adequately into
consideration are the candidate "telepath's" recent
experiences before the experiment that might color the
results, like "habituation", "priming", facilitation, recall,
and  emotional experiences, etc.  And, choice of targets for
candidate "telepaths" needs to be neutral, not, as Cosmin's
article suggests for instance, that "a target is a photo that
candidates should "psychically" decide depicts "happiness or
sadness" "ugly or pretty" or whatever Bad targets don't
allow randomizing to eliminate all types of emotional "noise."

Intentional or unintentional LYING by the experimenter
(stretching the data by the authors to support their beliefs,
"cherry picking", rejecting data, again to support the
author's beliefs, etc. are often never filtered out from a so
called peer-reviewed "report."  NO, THE STATISTICS, FOR
CAREFUL RESEARCHERS, MANY PhD's and university degreed
people, is ZERO. And often experiments that were redone to
"confirm" a reported "hit" also turned out to be misses when
fraud by claimant, cherry picking data, etc. were eliminated.
Precognition? _How is it that tr

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing


Probably a better number than zero, John!!
Cheers! Howard Marks

On 6/10/2019 4:00 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 4:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List 
> wrote:


/> You probably are mentally ill or something if even in the face
of evidence you continue to say ZERO./


Well.Instead of zero evidence for telepathy perhaps he should have 
said there was the square root of minus one evidence for telepathy. 
However the evidence the Everything List is turning into crackpot 
central can certainly be represented by a Real Number.


John Clark


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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

I've also had what I could call special occasioned "psychic" experiences 
- but, in retrospect, being perfectly honest with myself, I didn't count 
the tremendous of misses before and after I had the so called, "hits." 
And, later, when I had what I thought I was totally certain were more 
hits, they were misses.   Which is when I realized that the _missed 
hits _are more important than the hits unless one is not honest with 
oneself and the world.

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 6/10/2019 4:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:



On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 1:34:31 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote:

ALL well-conducted experiments for psi (even experiments to test
for "spontaneous occurrences"), NO exceptions, has ZERO hits -
except for unprovable personal claims of "subjective experiences"
like Cosmin's and Grayson's. Any positive "reports" are either
_anecdotal_, very terribly performed under non-falsifiable
hypotheses, or the statistics of small numbers. The article Cosmin
gave below from NIH is typical. Extremely important tasks that an
honest experimentalist needs to do are to use a large N and
properly randomize (if statistics are employed), which are seldom
done. And, as Cosmin's article reports, often not taken adequately
into consideration are the candidate "telepath's" recent
experiences before the experiment that might color the results,
like "habituation", "priming", facilitation, recall, and 
emotional experiences, etc. And, choice of targets for candidate
"telepaths" needs to be neutral, not, as Cosmin's article suggests
for instance, that "a target is a photo that candidates should
"psychically" decide depicts "happiness or sadness" "ugly or
pretty" or whatever Bad targets don't allow randomizing to
eliminate all types of emotional "noise."

Intentional or unintentional LYING by the experimenter (stretching
the data by the authors to support their beliefs, "cherry
picking", rejecting data, again to support the author's beliefs,
etc. are often never filtered out from a so called peer-reviewed
"report."  NO, THE STATISTICS, FOR CAREFUL RESEARCHERS, MANY PhD's
and university degreed people, is ZERO. And often experiments that
were redone to "confirm" a reported "hit" also turned out to be
misses when fraud by claimant, cherry picking data, etc. were
eliminated.
Precognition? _How is it that truly anonymous precognition
hotlines on the internet, on which predictions are published
before the world and eliminate fraud, lying by the claimants, has
a hit or miss score of ZERO hits (??) with 100s of thousands of
submissions, maybe millions_?? (I gave one link to a
representative hotline elsewhere in this thread)._Even one hit
would bring it off ZERO_. Of course, a rich oink could have made a
prediction of some catastrophe, and later paid to cause the
prediction to happen --- but even that didn't happen... 5 or 6
figures to ZERO score for precognition. It doesn't take Wheeler to
figure out the statistics and p for a score of zero to any number

I am qualified to report on what I say above and elsewhere on this
thread, as my father was a die-hard believer in PSI and I tried to
help him find people that could demonstrate Early on, as now, 
I kept/keep an open impartial mind to new evidence. I met Randi,
CSICOP, CSI members that way, traveled to a few conventions the
believers had, in hopes of finding even one person who could
demonstrate PSI.  Nyet. ZERO. Boo hao   Is love excluded for
these people and organizations?  You will find few individuals
with more love than those looking scientifically for a hit
sorry Cosmin...

But, Cosmin, the "proofs" you say we (you) are always receiving
that you believe are "proofs" of telepathy - are definitely not
telepathy - and if you are honest, you might see they are
misinterpretations of "rapport" and "indentification," and other
physical communication between individuals   This is super
easy to show - as for instance, if you claim to be communicating/
psychically communing with your girl friend, then it's easy to set
up experiments to isolate the experiences from chance and external
influences such as (but not limited to) both of you seeing a web
news story (or renditions of such), even far removed, as internet
is international, and reacting to it - then posting on facebook...
etc.. as you suggest. And if you are honest, you gotta count
EVERY non-hit as well as the hits when you tally a score The
non-hits gotta be dozens per day.  You are likely labeling
experiences you h

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

ALL well-conducted experiments for psi (even experiments to test for 
"spontaneous occurrences"), NO exceptions, has ZERO hits - except for 
unprovable personal claims of "subjective experiences" like Cosmin's and 
Grayson's. Any positive "reports" are either _anecdotal_, very terribly 
performed under non-falsifiable hypotheses, or the statistics of small 
numbers. The article Cosmin gave below from NIH is typical. Extremely 
important tasks that an honest experimentalist needs to do are to use a 
large N and properly randomize (if statistics are employed), which are 
seldom done. And, as Cosmin's article reports, often not taken 
adequately into consideration are the candidate "telepath's" recent 
experiences before the experiment that might color the results, like 
"habituation", "priming", facilitation, recall, and  emotional 
experiences, etc.  And, choice of targets for candidate "telepaths" 
needs to be neutral, not, as Cosmin's article suggests for instance, 
that "a target is a photo that candidates should "psychically" decide 
depicts "happiness or sadness" "ugly or pretty" or whatever Bad 
targets don't allow randomizing to eliminate all types of emotional 
"noise."

Intentional or unintentional LYING by the experimenter (stretching the 
data by the authors to support their beliefs, "cherry picking", 
rejecting data, again to support the author's beliefs, etc. are often 
never filtered out from a so called peer-reviewed "report."  NO, THE 
STATISTICS, FOR CAREFUL RESEARCHERS, MANY PhD's and university degreed 
people, is ZERO. And often experiments that were redone to "confirm" a 
reported "hit" also turned out to be misses when fraud by claimant, 
cherry picking data, etc. were eliminated.
Precognition? _How is it that truly anonymous precognition hotlines on 
the internet, on which predictions are published before the world and 
eliminate fraud, lying by the claimants, has a hit or miss score of ZERO 
hits (??) with 100s of thousands of submissions, maybe millions_?? (I 
gave one link to a representative hotline elsewhere in this 
thread)._Even one hit would bring it off ZERO_. Of course, a rich oink 
could have made a prediction of some catastrophe, and later paid to 
cause the prediction to happen --- but even that didn't happen... 5 or 6 
figures to ZERO score for precognition. It doesn't take Wheeler to 
figure out the statistics and p for a score of zero to any number

I am qualified to report on what I say above and elsewhere on this 
thread, as my father was a die-hard believer in PSI and I tried to help 
him find people that could demonstrate Early on, as now, I kept/keep 
an open impartial mind to new evidence. I met Randi, CSICOP, CSI members 
that way, traveled to a few conventions the believers had, in hopes of 
finding even one person who could demonstrate PSI.  Nyet. ZERO. Boo 
hao   Is love excluded for these people and organizations?  You will 
find few individuals with more love than those looking scientifically 
for a hit sorry Cosmin...

But, Cosmin, the "proofs" you say we (you) are always receiving that you 
believe are "proofs" of telepathy - are definitely not telepathy - and 
if you are honest, you might see they are misinterpretations of 
"rapport" and "indentification," and other physical communication 
between individuals   This is super easy to show - as for instance, 
if you claim to be communicating/ psychically communing with your girl 
friend, then it's easy to set up experiments to isolate the experiences 
from chance and external influences such as (but not limited to) both of 
you seeing a web news story (or renditions of such), even far removed, 
as internet is international, and reacting to it - then posting on 
facebook... etc.. as you suggest. And if you are honest, you gotta 
count EVERY non-hit as well as the hits when you tally a score The 
non-hits gotta be dozens per day.  You are likely labeling experiences 
you have as "psychic" when they are actually your "stream of 
consciousness," ala' Dr James Joyce (also a psychic researcher), working 
overtime...

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 10-06-2019 11:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
You are always receiving proofs, but you always mindlessly reject them
because you are indoctrinated.

Bem did some experiments proving precognition. 90 other experiments ,
replicated those results. So where are those "ZERO people" that you
talk about ? Fake news much ?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/
On Monday, 10 June 2019 12:45:28 UTC+3, smitra wrote: Prove your points. 
On 6/10/2019 7:24 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:19 PM Alan Grayson > wrote:

>>>///I've had a few "telepathic" experiences/

>> There is a new job opening for a good telepath, the pay is
very good and the benefits are terrific. You know where to apply.

/> We're not sufficiently evolved to make these

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-06-11 Thread howardmarks

"Believe" is a bad word in the scientific method. Unacceptable.
Falsifiable hypothesis is the substitute for "belief" - which means ya
gotta test the hypothesis to determine whether it's true or false.
Sorry, blind true belief in anecdotal evidence is no substitute. Sorry
Cosmin, YOU ignore the hard evidence of 1000's of researchers for 100's
of years - when they couldn't get even one hit. The scientific method is
familiar with special circumstance phenomena - one can set up for rare
phenomena. But you say that billions of people experience telepathy
often Shouldn't be hard to demonstrate then Do it. And/or,
investigate the NIH stories, talk to the authors, get them to demonstrate.

On 6/11/2019 1:38 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Of course, I also believe the same. But these crackpots here
obsessively ask for evidence, even though they totally ignore them,
like in a mental hospital. So I gave them those evidence that so
dearly long to ignore them.

On Tuesday, 11 June 2019 00:50:48 UTC+3, Alan Grayson wrote:

*I disagree with Cosmin. The proofs are exceedingly difficult to
come by, primarily because the experiences invariably involve
specific emotional states of the observers, sort of like a dream
in the way the communication occurs. I would doubt the phenomenon
can be shown by simple minded experiments involving statistics and
predictions, like what card will turn up in many trials. I can
recall three such experiences I've had, none of which I could
reproduce due to the special circumstances. AG*

The statistics of ZERO is not mine, it's a worldwide finding by many
people after much hard work. Phenomena needs to be demonstrable ---
not mere fart-gas testimony or journal submissions.

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Re: What is computing?

2019-06-11 Thread howardmarks


Prove it's fake news put up or shut up.

On 6/11/2019 4:18 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:

Computing = empty concept.
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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

It seems like both you guys don't know much about the scientific method
as applies to psi, especially if you can make statements like below. You
have ignored maybe 250 years of studies by 100s of well-qualified
scientists (overseen by notables such as Dr Isaac Asimov, Dr Carl Sagan,
Dr Michael Shermer, Dr Ray Hyman, etc.) with plenty of funding. They
are/were especially aware that PSI phenomena may have subtle
prerequisite conditions, may be sporadic and happen only occasionally,
like lightning or the aurora borealis, etc. That you minimalize and
dismiss the efforts hundreds of people for hundreds of years - who found
ZERO people able to demonstrate PSI capabilities after careful
experiments, just like the total failures of the precognition hotlines,
shows you really are chasing your beliefs and not phenomena. The issue
is to isolate PSI from the many other possibilities - not just latch
onto a belief that you experienced psi cause it felt like you were
communicating or communing. That's not science. Love has nothing to do
with it... isolating phenomena from alternative explanations is -- and
if love happens to be required -- most scientists would love to factor
love into the psi equation

On 6/10/2019 3:18 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Alan, my take on these people that never experienced psi phenomena is
that they never loved. So we should pity them. It is a very sad
situation to live life without having known love.

On Monday, 10 June 2019 05:19:03 UTC+3, Alan Grayson wrote:

We're not sufficiently evolved to make these phenomena occur by an
act of will. They usually occur when the observer, or chance, sets
up the subtle prerequisite conditions without knowing exactly what
they are. Those who have had such experiences usually avoid
discussing them will fools, of which you are one, unfortunately. AG

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-23 Thread howardmarks

Cosmin, I'm not talking about just your girlfriend story -- Every day,
people have many, many of {what could be interpreted as "wanna be"
precognition or telepathy} thoughts on events or people - and when
these many, many "wanna be" thoughts turn out not to resonate with
reality -- they're almost totally forgotten but, it seems that you,
Cosmin, don't count the many, many wanna be's only the seeming
"hits" - even if, like your girlfriend story, the details are wrong...
as she didn't talk about Italy, only castles and street parties --- you
cheated by twisting what she said and created a rationalization..
that is very very far from the scientific method But maybe your
intuition doesn't need the scientific method - totally available for
proving or disproving such claims of the paranormal.

In 20 years, Randi's team couldn't find one person that could perform
under any conditions - and PSICOP, ditto, for 100 years. And then,
there's Michael Shermer's work, Hyman's, etc.

Cheers! Howard

On 5/22/2019 3:23 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
As I also clearly specified in my post, we don't tell each other
dreams on a regular basis. So after years of not telling our dreams,
to one day receiving a message from her telling me her dream, don't
you find it suspicious ? Oh wait, you don't, the power of
rationalization in strong within people, so it was just a "coincidence".

Also, contrary to your rationalizations, the dreams matched of course.
The problem is that you expect from telepathy to be 100% correct, when
not even experiments in physics are not 100% correct. In QM the
particles hit the screen all over the place. Based on your
rationalization, QM is false.

On Tuesday, 21 May 2019 20:45:45 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

Problem is that people that want to believe - and take one seeming
"hit", like Cosmin's girl friend story - and don't count dozens or
hundreds of total misses.

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Your definition of telepathy is not part of reality, when no evidence 
exists, no matter how hard one searches for evidence of "telepathy". 
That little voice in your head that you believe (not know) is not 
evidence of telepathy.


On 5/20/2019 7:29 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Telepathy happens when you interact with people in real life. Do you 
interact with people ?


On Monday, 20 May 2019 14:02:15 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:

 telepathy is usually not even well defined, and I see no evidences

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-17 Thread howardmarks

Reports on anything, from telepathy, to precognition, to global
warming/climate change, Y2K are STORIES, subject to verification with
hard evidence and the scientific method.
Lots of people have "premonitions" and beliefs they experience
telepathy. The premonition hotlines have demonstrated _premonitions
as false_ - not one in 100's of 1000's (maybe millions) of submissions
was a hit, not just by http://thepremonitions.com but by maybe 6 other
similar hotlines over the last 20 years.

Problem is - people make hundreds of guesses as to what might be
happening somewhere else, or what someone is thinking. And some, like
YOU, likely never figure in wrong guesses. And when, by luck, a guess is
confirmed as a "hit," you call it premonition or telepathy. Sorry,
that is the opposite of the scientific method.

James Randi and hundreds of others have tirelessly listened to the
stories (you call them reports, Cosmin) of 10's of 1000's of people
claiming PSI capability. Why? Because we feel that these claimants may
have the greatest probability of actually performing psychic feats since
they claim they can. Randi's applicants must agree to be impartially
tested using the scientific method, which, if you are familiar with it,
demands that an investigator create falsifiable hypotheses with the aim
of demonstrating a hypothesis "true" or "false." Prejudice or
charlatanism doesn't figure into tests, as they are proctored by people
that really want to establish PSI as real, including the claimant!

I don't lie - but yes, I have made many "guesses" about what people may
have been thinking or events happening - and occasionally I get a hit.
But I don't lie to myself and call it a premonition or telepathy.

Cheers!
Howard Marks

On 5/17/2019 4:12 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Landing on the Moon is anecdotal, since is only reported by 3 people.
Telepathies are reported by 7 billion people all the time, including
me, so they are not anecdotal. They are like breathing. Everybody
breaths. And if you say you never had telepathies, you lie.

On Friday, 17 May 2019 20:13:35 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

Just because an article in a journal of APS, AAAS (both
organizations of which I am a member), or Nature appears, doesn't
mean the subject matter of the article is true. I had an EE
educated father with a dozen patents that "believed" in psychic
phenomena, and helping him investigate was very sobering, as all
leads ended in a brick wall - when it came to actually performing.
That's how I met Randi. So much anecdotal "evidence." But the
bottom line was, all anecdotes, when one does due diligence to see
the performance - can't demonstrate, without exception. And,
Cosmin, if you would actually investigate, rather than decide how
"believable" anecdotal stories are - you might change your "beliefs!"
Cheers! Howard Marks

On 5/17/2019 10:00 AM, John Clark wrote:

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:42 AM 'Cosmin Visan'
> wrote:

/> Also in cases of telepathy and precognitions the
"technology" and the "motivation" existed at the moment of
their occurrence. Actually, it seems that the conditions
required for paranormal phenomena are being met way more
often that the conditions required for Moon landing./

If you're right about that then it should be easy to find
ironclad evidence within the month that will convince even the
most skeptical editors of journals like Physical Review Letters,
Nature or Science that telepathy and precognition actually exist.
So let's make a bet and I'll give you 10 to one odds; if a pro
ESP article appears before June 17 2019 in any of those journals
I'll give you $10,000, if it doesn't you only have to give me
$100. And remember the article doesn't need to explain why the
phenomena exists it just has to show that something exists that
needs explaining, So do we have a bet?

John K Clark

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Exactly, Terren!
Cosmin, your "evidence" is mostly anecdotal or experiments made under
poor conditions. They are made by Dean Radin, who, it seems, will
believe, like my dad, no matter how many times he gets poor or no
results. I did look at quite a few of those he had listed.
Randomization, which is extremely important, is often non-existent in
some of those "reports." Some groups are of "believers." Statistics of
small numbers at best, or poor researchers.
To take a couple items, Puthoff, Targ, Ingo Swann I've talked to years
ago. They never responded to Ray Hyman's demand they show hard evidence.
Government's Operation Stargate (remote viewing) in response to Soviet
Union's claims of esp superiority - _total absolute failure_, in spite
of what Radin writes. The scientists controlling stargate, to relax the
test subjects, initially fabricated "hits" to put them at ease - before
they gave the actual tests. But these test subjects remember those
fabricated "hits" as real hits. Ingo Swann was one of those stargaters
who still believed he had real remote viewing hits. These believing
tested subjects refused to accept the truth, wrote books badmouthing
the government, accusing them of a coverup, etc. Proof of the pudding
is that when Stargate ended, there was no followup, and those who
claimed they were capable never got called again. There is no department
of ESP.

There are tens of thousands of books written on Christianity, Islam,
Hindu, and other religions, which attest to so many miracles, events of
healing, etc. Why not believe them? They are just as convincing as
Radin's stuff! Demonstrate or find someone who can Anything other
than demonstration of something you say is so common - is irrational. We
are not dogmatic believers. You are. Cosmin, demonstrate... or find
someone who can. You name the terms. My clairvoyance also tells me you
won't or can't.

On 5/20/2019 8:23 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
I'll add my voice to those asking you to put up or shut up. Produce an
act of telepathy. You name the terms, since you're the one making the
claim that you can do it.

But you won't do it, because you can't. That's my clairvoyant prediction.

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 6:37 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List
> wrote:

See ? That's the problem with you irrational materialist dogmatic
believers. Even if people gives you evidence, you keep continue
yelling "EVIDENCE! EVIDENCE!". Maybe you should consult a
psychiatrist or something. You cannot have dialogues with
irrational broken records.

As a footnote to your link for Dean Radin, look through his links - even
the first one And with small N's, what can be concluded. I'm sure
he is honorable, but nevertheless he "believes" what he's writing. My
father, similar EE education to Dean Radin, without the PhD, was also a
believer, super-impressed by a parlor psychic "show" at Purdue
University in 1939 - even though, in his 102 years of life, he never
verified anyone as capable even though he probably spent 10% of his
time investigating.
Ignorance of what? Telepathy is defined as some sort of "communication"
by all who claim they have it.
If you think that the dialogue going on in your head - when you think of
someone - is telepathy, then you are mistaken. But demo it.

As Bruno says, "and I see no evidences" sums it up - his conclusion and
100 years of scientific investigation by PSICOP (/Committee/ for the
Scientific Investigation of Claims of the /Paranormal)//totally agree.
Look them up: /PSICOP was started in the 19th century to investigate
such claims - of which Randi was a prominent associate -
But, Cosmin, if you have (other than anecdotal) evidence of telepathy,
demonstrate it! That's what science is all about, isn't it?
Demonstrate my ignorance ! We are all happy to say "uncle" if you can
demonstrate telepathy or any other psychic capability...

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-21 Thread howardmarks

That's the essence of it... not to confuse theology and ontology with a 
search for the truth..

On 5/21/2019 6:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 20 May 2019, at 14:18, Lawrence Crowell 
> wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:55:19 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell
> wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:

I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been
on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again,
but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this
anecdote true ?

When I was a kid I was big on the moon landing. We went on a
vacation to Florida and saw one of the Saturn V rockets lift
off. The thing is that if these were faked, then NASA built a
370 foot tall rocket that roared off the launch pad only to
ditch the thing in the ocean or some such event and then do a
studio enactment. If NASA were to build such a machine, why fake
it? --- they might as well have gone all the way.

For a 5 years in the 90s I was employed in spacecraft
navigation. I worked the mechanics on how to get a spacecraft to
some orbit in space, whether around Earth or out into the solar
system, or to reach some other planetary body. I timed my visits
to the Kennedy Space Center to watch shuttle launches, one
landing and some Delta launches. This stuff is not faked. There
is in fact a visitor center where an unused Saturn V rocket is
displayed.

The idea that moon landings are faked is in line with other
historical denials, such as holocaust denial or that black
slaves in the south really enjoyed their status and so forth.
Conspiracy ideas and nonsense about alt-history or alt-science
such as creationism (even flat earth stuff is getting popular)
are growing in decibel volume these days. It is a sign the minds
of people, particularly Americans, are being rubbished up.

It is very sad sign that education has been lowering down for
sometimes. It confirms my feeling that fake theologies, like in
most religious institutions is a bad training in argument
per-authority.
We will leave the Middle-Âge and obscurantism when theology will
be returned back at the faculty of science, where we are humble
and modest, never claim truth, and propose theories with means of
evaluation.
The separation of science and theology has separated the human
and the exact sciences making them both inexact and inhuman.

Bruno

I would question to what extent theology has been ever a faculty of 
science.

It has been, from Pythagorus (-500)  to Damascius (+500), in occident, 
and from +500 to 1248 in the Middle-east. In both occident and 
middle-east, it has stopped due to the stealing of it by the temporal 
powers, for private use (goal: to control people and steal their money 
and means).

Since I presume most people on this list are Christian I will use that,

To be provoque a little, I like to say that christianise ended also in 
+500. Before the closure of Plato’Academy in athene, christians were 
divided into the neoplatoncian and the aristotelician. After, 
Aristotle theology (the belief in a primary physical universe, or the 
belief that the physical universe cannot be explained by something 
simpler) has been made obligatory, or you would have been treated as 
pagan theologian or heretics, and be exiled or burned alive.

where if you think about it Jesus turning water into wine is not 
really that different an idea from Cinderella's fairy godmother 
turning mice and a pumpkin into a team of horses bridled to a carriage.

If you give me an evidence that Jesus has transformed ware in wine, 
the simplest explanation would be that Jesus is good in prestidigitation.

Like we can abandon our belief in a primary physical universe by 
simple presti-digitalism. Universal numbers are very good in making 
you belief that some dreams are real ...

In both instances you have some supernatural being, or a being 
capable of supernatural powers, able to convert matter from one form 
to another by shear force of thought or will. The difference is the 
narrative about Jesus is offered up as absolute divine truth and the 
story about Cinderella is a bit more honest and is framed as a fairy 
tale.

There is no texts, nor myth when we do theology as a science, like the 
greeks did for an entire millenium. At that time, theology was an 
option after many years of mathematics, astronomy, music, etc.

Now with theology we can push this into metaphor, where Jesus making 
wine out of water is symbolic of going from baptism to communion. 
Lazarus being raised from the dead is also a suspension of natural 
principles, where as the narrative has it Lazarus was pretty far gone 
and dead for 3 days, but Jesus raising him from death.

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-21 Thread howardmarks

Problem is that people that want to believe - and take one seeming 
"hit", like Cosmin's girl friend story - and don't count dozens or 
hundreds of total misses. We have hunches, or clues many times per day, 
if we interact with society or friends at all. We take action on more 
certain ones, such as reacting to drivers on the road, and, if a less 
certain hunch or thought doesn't confirm as a "hit," then it goes into 
the trash bin of totally forgotten failed hunches (would be "hits" if 
confirmed). But if a believer has a hunch or dream, like Cosmin, none of 
the failed dreams or hunches counts - just the seeming "hit".


And, as Telmo and Bruno suggest, one must examine past interactions. 
Cosmin's girlfriend can't get the idea that both might travel to Europe 
out of thin air. They must have talked about it before. Doesn't past 
communication count?? And also, Cosmin's and the girlfriend's dreams are 
quite different; Cosmin's quite specific about Italy and girlfriend's 
quite general. Castles may be in Germany, Romania, England, less likely 
in Italy. But Cosmin still makes invisible links where none exist. Italy 
is a small part of Europe. Parties in the streets is commonly depicted 
on the media. Cosmin, your supposed "shared" dream totally fails your 
point 1 of telepathy.
If, Cosmin, seven billion people have experiences of telepathy (_your_ 
claim in this thread), then you should be able, easily be able to 
generate hard proof of telepathy.


Should be easy to demo telepathy if what you say is even remotely true. 
Not like the hyperbole you suggest of I'll produce telepathy when you 
guys "produce a higgs boson" (requiring tens of billions of dollars of 
equipment and decades of time).
Oh, you say, telepathy doesn't happen all the time, just when conditions 
are right. No problem. Lightning, aurora borealis and tornadoes are such 
phenomena, and it's easy to set up for them... telepathy is, you say, 
very common. Should be a no-brainer.
James Randi, who got the genius grant from MacArthur Foundation in his 
50's for his tireless work pursuing the truth, did just that. Each 
claimant had their conditions for demonstrating - which Randi 
"religiously" followed. He had a bait of a million dollars to successful 
claimants. None could demonstrate under neutral conditions. You say 
Randi is a charlatan? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Cheers! Howard Marks

On 5/21/2019 9:27 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Did you consider that maybe you had recently shared experiences / 
conversations / whatever that triggered similar dreams? Or that you 
woke up and saw the facebook message before dreaming but don't 
remember it? Or...


You fight dogmatism precisely by trying to prove to yourself that you 
are wrong, not by jumping to the conclusion you like and then 
defending it as part of your identity, being offended when people 
don't believe you and so on. The latter is the actual path to 
dogmatism. I have walked it, most of us have, we are human. But let's 
try not to bullshit ourselves too much.


One day I was standing in a train station. This thought came out of 
nowhere: "wouldn't it be weird if an empty train just passed by?". An 
empty train just passed by moment after. Empty trains that do not stop 
were not a common event at that station, it was the first time I saw 
one. Is this proof or even strong evidence of precognition? Of course 
not, there are 1000 more prosaic explanations to consider before 
assuming something that is so much outside of our understanding of 
reality. For example, I might have noticed some warning but only 
became aware of it at some subconscious level. Or maybe I observed 2 
or 3 unusual things and my brain connected the dots.


If you are a scientist, and you have a hunch, then do the experiment! 
But try to be rigorous, people will question your methods and your 
conclusions, as they should.


Telmo.

On Tue, May 21, 2019, at 14:30, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
When it occurs it is obvious that it occurred. One such example from 
my life. I once had a girlfriend from India (I'm from Romania). We 
met for few weeks in India, and after some months after meeting, I 
had a dream of traveling with her in Italy and there was a party on 
the streets with food on the tables, and we took food and people 
started to scream at us for stealing. In the morning, when I entered 
on facebook I had a message from her in which she was telling me that 
she dreamed traveling with me in a place with castles (she never been 
to Europe, but clearly this place was evokable of Europe) and there 
was a party on the streets and we took water from the table and 
people started to laugh at us.


Notice the standard traits of telepathy:

1) Such precise sharable details.
2) It happened at a specific point in time, for both of us at the 
same time, and after many months after we met.
3) She felt that she had to tell me this dream. Is not like we were 
always telling us the dreams. This

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-16 Thread howardmarks

You have a belief that precognition and telepathy/psychic phenomena are
real - if one looks, using the scientific method, as Randi did, it is
impossible to find anyone who can actually perform under controlled
conditions that the claimant themselves sets as conditions of a test
(even if the test is statistical with the aim of getting a higher score
than random - like getting a 60-40 on predicting the flipping of coins,
to use a terrible example!).

The total failure of precognition hotlines to show precognition over a
couple decades - is quite strong evidence. One must make sure that one
uses hard evidence, not hear-say or testimonials.

Cheers! Howard

On 5/16/2019 5:13 AM, howardmarks wrote:
In fact, sir, I personally know Randi, having met him at events and by
telephone. He is totally NOT a charlatan. He won the MacArthur Prize
for his tireless work on exposing charlatans such as Uri Geller
(MacArthur Prize usually given to prospective young science students,
Randi received it in his 50's), was an amateur astronomer early in his
life, and has a great knowledge of the scientific method. No, he
doesn't have a degree in the sciences. Yes, he had many advisors who
were/are impeccable scientists and professionals. Sorry, you are wrong
about Randi.

Cheers! Howard

On 5/16/2019 2:44 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Randi is a charlatan. He (and the people the cite him) has no
understanding whatsoever about how science works. He wants from
people to do instant magic. But that's not how science works. Even
the CERN scientists are making billions of collisions in order to
obtain 1 Higgs boson. If it were for Randi, he would never awarded
any Nobel prize for the Higgs discovery, because it was not a
shocking amazing soap opera performance. Lots of people have
demonstrated to this charlatan telepathy and precognition, but he
refused to acknowledge them, because they were not straight out
hollywood display.

On Thursday, 16 May 2019 05:03:54 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

There have been a number of "precognition hotlines" on the
internet in the past, with thousands or millions of hits - _but
their "batting average" is flat ZERO_. One such website is
http://thepremonitions.com .
James Randi, now retired (randi.org), had a million dollar
challenge for any type of paranormal and/or psychic phenomena
(such as telepathy, etc.), out for 25 years - only condition on
getting the money (or giving it to one's favorite charity) was to
actually PERFORM. Many many people said they could perform, but,
under impartial conditions (even with only cameras as observers
if that was the condition) = _their batting average was also ZERO_.
But, hey, belief has no place in phenomena, unless one is
studying why people believe things.

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-16 Thread howardmarks

Sorry mate, if the issue is about "beliefs" rather than reality, then
you are making it a believing game. Truth is not a believing game. It's
not about believing whether telepathy is real - it is about impartially
testing claimants under controlled conditions. You are treating your
belief in telepathy the same as a Catholic, Muslim, or Hindu treats
their belief in their deity.

Yeah, if one does your picture test under uncontrolled conditions, or
only a few times, one may obtain such a score as 32. N, the number of
times such a test is repeated is very important to eliminate chance. (a
coin flip can easily get "heads" three times in a row!) But the content
of the pictures must be just as impartial/random to the individual being
tested as a random number, otherwise the test is not random.

I was honored to be present one time when a few people were "tested" by
Randi's team in Florida. Totally impartial. The claimants, with Randi's
people, decided what constituted a demonstration of a psychic
capability, with the main emphasis to keep the testing fair, both to the
claimant and adhering to the scientific method. Unfortunately, the
claimants, when they couldn't perform, most of the time believed the
test was unfair. even though Randi's people "bent over backwards" to
assure fairness.

Cheers! Howard

On 5/16/2019 5:39 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
In a test in which people are asked to "guess" 1 in 4 pictures, the
results are 32% instead of 25%. Telepathy is not only real, but is
obviously real. Sorry mate, you need to change your beliefs.

On Thursday, 16 May 2019 13:26:57 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

You have a belief that precognition and telepathy/psychic
phenomena are real - if one looks, using the scientific method,
as Randi did, it is impossible to find anyone who can actually
perform under controlled conditions that the claimant themselves
sets as conditions of a test (even if the test is statistical with
the aim of getting a higher score than random - like getting a
60-40 on predicting the flipping of coins, to use a terrible
example!).

The total failure of precognition hotlines to show precognition
over a couple decades - is quite strong evidence. One must make
sure that one uses hard evidence, not hear-say or testimonials.
Cheers! Howard

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-16 Thread howardmarks

In fact, sir, I personally know Randi, having met him at events and by
telephone. He is totally NOT a charlatan. He won the MacArthur Prize for
his tireless work on exposing charlatans such as Uri Geller (MacArthur
Prize usually given to prospective young science students, Randi
received it in his 50's), was an amateur astronomer early in his life,
and has a great knowledge of the scientific method. No, he doesn't have
a degree in the sciences. Yes, he had many advisors who were/are
impeccable scientists and professionals. Sorry, you are wrong about Randi.

Cheers! Howard

On 5/16/2019 2:44 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Randi is a charlatan. He (and the people the cite him) has no
understanding whatsoever about how science works. He wants from people
to do instant magic. But that's not how science works. Even the CERN
scientists are making billions of collisions in order to obtain 1
Higgs boson. If it were for Randi, he would never awarded any Nobel
prize for the Higgs discovery, because it was not a shocking amazing
soap opera performance. Lots of people have demonstrated to this
charlatan telepathy and precognition, but he refused to acknowledge
them, because they were not straight out hollywood display.

On Thursday, 16 May 2019 05:03:54 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

James Randi, now retired (randi.org <http://randi.org>), had a
million dollar challenge for any type of paranormal and/or psychic
phenomena (such as telepathy, etc.), out for 25 years - only
condition on getting the money (or giving it to one's favorite
charity) was to actually PERFORM. Many many people said they could
perform, but, under impartial conditions (even with only cameras
as observers if that was the condition) = _their batting average
was also ZERO_.

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

On 5/20/2019 4:03 PM, howardmarks wrote:
Ignorance of what? Telepathy is defined as some sort of
"communication" by all who claim they have it.

If you think that the dialogue going on in your head - when you think
of someone - is telepathy, then you are mistaken. But demo it.

As Bruno says, "and I see no evidences" sums it up - his conclusion
and 100 years of scientific investigation by PSICOP (/Committee/ for
the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the /Paranormal)//totally
agree. Look them up: /PSICOP was started in the 19th century to
investigate such claims - of which Randi was a prominent associate -
But, Cosmin, if you have (other than anecdotal) evidence of telepathy,
demonstrate it! That's what science is all about, isn't it?
Demonstrate my ignorance ! We are all happy to say "uncle" if you can
demonstrate telepathy or any other psychic capability...

On 5/20/2019 3:06 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:

Sorry mate, your ignorance doesn't stand for lack of evidence.

http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

On Monday, 20 May 2019 15:37:41 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:

Your definition of telepathy is not part of reality, when no
evidence exists, no matter how hard one searches for evidence of
"telepathy". That little voice in your head that you believe (not
know) is not evidence of telepathy.

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Re: The anecdote of Moon landing