date:20051214

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 This is like watching Robin Williams doing his 
 schizophrenia comedy routine, with two personalities
 in the same being arguing back and forth with each
 other. Except that Robin's routine is funny, and 
 this is very sad and very scary indeed. Get some
 help, Tom, and by that I don't mean Spend more
 money on yagyas.  As far as I can tell, you're
 getting closer and closer to being one of those
 guys we read about who snaps one day and decides
 to kill all the people he believes are persecuting 
 him.  
 
 This is beyond allowing your tortured Inner Child
 to scream in public, Tom...this is verging on full-
 blown insanity.  Please get help.  I've tried to
 support your occasional positive actions here on 
 FFL, but I'm really worried about you.  
 
 Unc/Barry

Tom, 

Because I really *am* concerned about you, I'm
going to point out something that doesn't seem
to have occurred to you.  It's becoming really
painful to see you acting out what seems to be
Multiple Personality Disorder here on this forum,
posting under two different names, and with two
obviously different personalities, poles apart,
and with one polar post appearing within minutes 
of another one, equally polar but in the opposite
direction.  In my book this is not an indication 
of someone who is getting better as a result 
of yagyas, but worse.

And you've taken it upon yourself to try to act
out your resentment at people here telling you
the truth about some of the things you post here
by trying to get the forum itself removed from
Yahoo.  That is simply unacceptable, and in my
book is yet another symptom of a serious mental
disorder that needs treatment.

Here's the thing that probably has not occurred
to you.  What if someone here, someone who actually
cares about you and is interested in your welfare,
took it upon himself or herself to email the posts
you made here yesterday under two different names to 
the provider of the yagyas you seem to hold so dear?
From what you have said in your posts about them,
they seem to be ethical people who are genuinely
concerned that their service has the greatest 
possible benefit for those paying for them.

How do you think they'd react to discovering that
one of their clients is reacting to their services
by acting out in a way that Western psychologists
would characterize as having episodes of multiple
personality disorder?  How do you think they'd 
react to learning that one of their clients is
trying his best to act out his hurt and rage by
harming other people rather than helping them?

I somehow suspect that they might think twice about
accepting future payments from you, and conducting
future yagyas for you.  I somehow suspect they would
be *shocked* to learn who it was they were really
dealing with, and might wish to not involve them-
selves and their karma with someone who is obviously
having some serious mental problems.

In other words, they might just cut you off at the
pump, Tom.

A word to the wise.  I am not going to write such
an email.  I trust to your higher nature, and to
that higher nature winning out if you realize 
that if someone else were to do to you what you
have so blithely done to others here that it would
be painful and really fuck with your life.

A word to the wise.  Grow the fuck up.  Stop this
infantile acting out, and allow people here to 
continue to have their little discussions, free
from interference from you.  If you keep acting
like an out-of-control child, sooner or later 
someone here is going to do exactly what I have
suggested, and you'll start to actually *feel* 
the effects of your own karma.  I don't
think you'd like that.

I honestly think that the best thing you could
possibly do at this point is offer an apology to
the people of Fairfield Life and refrain from
posting here for some time.  Concentrate on your
own life and helping it to evolve, in the way
that seems best to you.  We will all wish you
the best in that endeavor, and look forward to
seeing a new and improved Tom Pall when you 
choose to return, if you do.

But don't keep fucking with people who wish you
well and pray for your well-being, Tom.  If you
do, in time one of them is going to decide that
what's good for the goose is good for the gander,
and use your own methods against you.  It won't
be me, but it will be someone.

Get it?

I wish you nothing but the best.  Really.  But
you're out of control, dude, and it's messing
with this discussion forum, which I treasure.
Act out on your own time and in the privacy of
your own home, Tom.  When you do it here, and
threaten to make here go away, you're treading
on thin ice.

Barry Wright







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Guide to the Perplexed? Perhaps?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Natan Ophir 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   Being new to this group, I would appreciate if someone posts a 
key 
   to explain who is against whom, or pro and contra TMO, or 
pushing 
   which agenda. Would be kind of handy for newcomers. A simple 
Guide 
   to the Perplexed.
  
  With all due respect, I think the credo of this group
  is that people should make such determinations for
  *themselves*, not rely on others to do it for them.
 
 Uh-oh, Judy and Unc agreed on something...

LOL.







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[FairfieldLife] The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Premanand Paul Mason

I have received an email relating to a press conference in which MMY 
allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving 
lunatic.
Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a transcript?

Follows an extract of the email received:-

'It might interest you to know that during the summer of 2004 
I
was watching a free live transmission of a Maharishi Press conference 
from
Holland to India.  I had been watching these free for a limited time
Maharishi press conferences for about the whole summer.  In each 
session,
John Hagelin of MUM was fielding questions from the press for 
Maharishi.
Maharishi would then give a thorough answer and/or message that was 
very
pleasing to hear.  However, one day as I was watching a special 
broadcast of
the Maharishi speaking to India, he absolutely lost it (so to speak) 
and
began what amounted to be a complete 30-45 minute tyrannical speech 
about
how India is still being kept down by its Britisher foreigners and 
their
religion of suffering-Christianity.

I was stunned when he started advocating that Indians begin to 
angrily 
and
forcibly directly threaten Britishers and Christians (namely 
women) 
by
explaining that if they didn't leave India immediately 
their, Husbands 
and
children's lives would be in great danger.  And that was only one 
small
quote.  I watched in disbelief as he threw all caution to the wind and
started chastising the Indian Press and basically all of India for 
copying
the West and becoming less Spiritual.  He was out of control to 
tell 
you
the truth.  I am not exaggerating at all either.  He made himself 
look 
and
sound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic.  Literally trying to incite
violence?  I was stunned at how much disrespect and open contempt he 
was
displaying towards Britishers and westerners in general.  It was
unthinkable, the things that he was saying.  He was openly instructing
others to throw the bloody Britishers out or they will pay a heavy 
price
for staying, mainly he explained because of British involvement in 
the 
War
in Iraq and the fact that these democratically run foreign countries 
were
dragging the spirituality of India and her people down.  Also he kept 
on
repeating get away from democracy get away from democracy.'






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Ingegerd

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have received an email relating to a press conference in which 
MMY 
 allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving 
 lunatic.
 Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a 
transcript?
 
 Follows an extract of the email received:-
 
 'It might interest you to know that during the summer of 2004 
 I
 was watching a free live transmission of a Maharishi Press 
conference 
 from
 Holland to India.  I had been watching these free for a limited 
time
 Maharishi press conferences for about the whole summer.  In each 
 session,
 John Hagelin of MUM was fielding questions from the press for 
 Maharishi.
 Maharishi would then give a thorough answer and/or message that 
was 
 very
 pleasing to hear.  However, one day as I was watching a special 
 broadcast of
 the Maharishi speaking to India, he absolutely lost it (so to 
speak) 
 and
 began what amounted to be a complete 30-45 minute tyrannical 
speech 
 about
 how India is still being kept down by its Britisher foreigners and 
 their
 religion of suffering-Christianity.
 
 I was stunned when he started advocating that Indians begin to 
 angrily 
 and
 forcibly directly threaten Britishers and Christians (namely 
 women) 
 by
 explaining that if they didn't leave India immediately 
 their, Husbands 
 and
 children's lives would be in great danger.  And that was only one 
 small
 quote.  I watched in disbelief as he threw all caution to the wind 
and
 started chastising the Indian Press and basically all of India for 
 copying
 the West and becoming less Spiritual.  He was out of control to 
 tell 
 you
 the truth.  I am not exaggerating at all either.  He made himself 
 look 
 and
 sound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic.  Literally trying to 
incite
 violence?  I was stunned at how much disrespect and open contempt 
he 
 was
 displaying towards Britishers and westerners in general.  It was
 unthinkable, the things that he was saying.  He was openly 
instructing
 others to throw the bloody Britishers out or they will pay a 
heavy 
 price
 for staying, mainly he explained because of British involvement 
in 
 the 
 War
 in Iraq and the fact that these democratically run foreign 
countries 
 were
 dragging the spirituality of India and her people down.  Also he 
kept 
 on
 repeating get away from democracy get away from democracy.'

I have not heard that special conference. But what he says about 
Brithishers and Democracy has been repeated over and over again 
through the last years. I have heard him use a language that is far 
from spiritual and that is one of the reasons that I stopped to 
listen to his speaches. He is not in balance.
Ingegerd





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Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India



The ones I've watched seem edited now. Maybe that's why?On Dec 14, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote:I have received an email relating to a press conference in which MMY  allegedly "made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving  lunatic." Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a transcript? 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread mainstream20016

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I have received an email relating to a press conference in which MMY 
 allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving 
 lunatic.
 Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a transcript?
 
 Follows an extract of the email received:-
 
 'It might interest you to know that during the summer of 2004 
 I
 was watching a free live transmission of a Maharishi Press conference 
 from
 Holland to India.  I had been watching these free for a limited time
 Maharishi press conferences for about the whole summer.  In each 
 session,
 John Hagelin of MUM was fielding questions from the press for 
 Maharishi.
 Maharishi would then give a thorough answer and/or message that was 
 very
 pleasing to hear.  However, one day as I was watching a special 
 broadcast of
 the Maharishi speaking to India, he absolutely lost it (so to speak) 
 and
 began what amounted to be a complete 30-45 minute tyrannical speech 
 about
 how India is still being kept down by its Britisher foreigners and 
 their
 religion of suffering-Christianity.
 
 I was stunned when he started advocating that Indians begin to 
 angrily 
 and
 forcibly directly threaten Britishers and Christians (namely 
 women) 
 by
 explaining that if they didn't leave India immediately 
 their, Husbands 
 and
 children's lives would be in great danger.  And that was only one 
 small
 quote.  I watched in disbelief as he threw all caution to the wind and
 started chastising the Indian Press and basically all of India for 
 copying
 the West and becoming less Spiritual.  He was out of control to 
 tell 
 you
 the truth.  I am not exaggerating at all either.  He made himself 
 look 
 and
 sound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic.  Literally trying to incite
 violence?  I was stunned at how much disrespect and open contempt he 
 was
 displaying towards Britishers and westerners in general.  It was
 unthinkable, the things that he was saying.  He was openly instructing
 others to throw the bloody Britishers out or they will pay a heavy 
 price
 for staying, mainly he explained because of British involvement in 
 the 
 War
 in Iraq and the fact that these democratically run foreign countries 
 were
 dragging the spirituality of India and her people down.  Also he kept 
 on
 repeating get away from democracy get away from democracy.'


Is this how you conduct research for your published books?  To fish for 
corroboration by broadcasting the above  without requiring your source to be 
specific
regarding date of speech, or week, or month, even, is grossly irresponsible, 
and certainly 
lowers your credibility as a biographical author.





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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

2005-12-14 Thread lurkernomore20002000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip
 
 I wish you nothing but the best.  Really.  But
 you're out of control, dude, and it's messing
 with this discussion forum, which I treasure.
 Act out on your own time and in the privacy of
 your own home, Tom.  When you do it here, and
 threaten to make here go away, you're treading
 on thin ice.
 
 Barry Wright

Nice piece.  

lurk







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[FairfieldLife] 1032 Members

2005-12-14 Thread lurkernomore20002000

You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if 
we're being monitored.  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two 
weeks of postings.

lurk





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

 On Dec 14, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I have received an email relating to a press conference in which 
  MMY allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered 
  raving lunatic.
  Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a 
  transcript?

 The ones I've watched seem edited now. Maybe that's why?

Vaj, your comment (and recent events here on FFL) have
left me thinking about a fine film I saw recently, one
that IMO has profound implications in many areas of 
life, including the spiritual search and one's own
spiritual sadhana.  The film is called The Final Cut,
and it stars Robin Williams (brilliant! in one of his
subdued, introverted roles) as a cutter.  In this
slightly future story, parents have the option of fit-
ting their kids with a Zoe chip, a bio-organic device 
that records everything they see and do from the moment
of birth to the moment of their deaths. Then, when the
wearer of the Zoe chip dies, his or her loved ones can
ask a cutter to make a Rememory film of the high-
lights of the person's life.

And therein lies the problem -- the idea of highlights,
of the necessity to EDIT a person's life to make it 
more palatable to the loved ones who want to view por-
tions of it.  Robin's character is the best at what he
does, and he's willing to take on *anybody's* life and
edit it to remove the offending parts.  He thinks of
himself as a sin eater, as in the old (I think) Jewish
tradition.

I think we see this editing of life all the time. All
around us, but especially in spiritual traditions. 
There is a tendency for people to compartmentalize their
lives, and show only one small aspect of themselves to
the people they care about, while revealing other, less
savory aspects of themselves to those that they *don't*
care about. You need go no further than recent schizo-
phrenic remarks made here on FFL to understand what I'm
talking about. How would that person *feel* if people 
he cared about knew what he did and what he said to 
amuse himself at other people's expense. But he feels
safe doing it, because he doesn't believe they'll find
out. They don't read FFL.

Similarly, there is a *huge* tendency in spiritual 
traditions to edit the lives of their founders. If
the teacher does or says something messy, there are
teams of people whose job it is to edit it out, to 
make it appear as if the messy thing never happened.
This certainly happens with video- and audiotape; I 
have seen various generations of the same tape come
and go, the later generations hugely different from
the original as TBs labor to remove all the parts 
that could be considered messy.

And what's even worse is the self editing that the
TBs sometimes perform on *themselves*. They *refuse*
to accept the veracity of stories that seem messy,
that seem contradictory to the way that they'd like
to think of their teacher.

I think this is a Big Spiritual Mistake. I think that
anyone's life is really about the raw footage of
that life -- the clean parts *and* the messy parts.
And I think that this is even more true when dealing
with enlightenment. The enlightened *aren't* all
squeaky clean. They fart and shit like other people,
and as far as I can tell they make messy mistakes
like other people. I believe that editing their
lives to make it appear as they don't is a disservice
to the enlightened themselves, and to people who seek
enlightenment and hope to find it in their example.

I don't know whether the press conferences in ques-
tion are being edited to remove the messy parts,
but it is *completely* consistent with TM movement
history that they are. I have certainly seen the edits
done on other tapes and books over the years.  And I'm
just rappin' about this because I think it's a mistake,
a disservice to the person being edited, and to the 
seekers who are forced to view an edited version
of life. IMO, real life is always better.

Just my opinion,

Unc








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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO threatens South Florida teacher and magazine

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  snip
   The profile of the TMO is business and cult. That 
is 
   what 
   ordinary people seemore and more, when they hear the 
 prices 
   and 
   learn what the TMO stands for.
   An Indian Muslim came to me and learned Transcendental 
 Meditation 
   some weeks ago. (I am an Independent TM-Teacher). He 
had 
   first 
   checked out the TMO - and when he came to me, he 
 said: I 
  do 
not 
   want to be a part of a cult with Rajas and stuff. I do 
 not 
   want 
 to 
   be a part of an organisation who has over-prized their 
   courses. 
 I 
   just want to learn Transcendental Meditation.
  
  Of course, unless things have changed, you can just learn
  Transcendental Meditation from the TMO without having to
  become part of a cult with Rajas and stuff (although of
  course you'll have to pay the TMO's prices).
  
  Did this gentleman really think learning TM from the TMO
  would mean joining a cult?  Or was he just looking for a
  lower price?
 
 He had the image that the TMO was a cult. He could not 
 accept 
   that.
 He is a businessman - and he could easily have paid the 
 price of
 the TMO.

But you explained to him that learning TM from the TMO
wouldn't mean he'd have to join a cult, right?
   
   No, I did not. I do not argue about the TMO with people. The 
 only 
   thing I say is that I am not a part of the TMO because I do not 
   agree with the course fee. I do not say anything negative about 
 the 
   TMO. To explain what the TMO are or not are, is not my 
   responsibility. People see what they see and make their own 
   thoughts.
  
  Oh, I wasn't suggesting that you *argue* with him, just
  that you let him know what the facts are with regard to
  that particular concern.
 
 And what are the facts? Is it yours and mine subjective meaning or 
 is it what people learn from the TMO itself?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Most people
who learn TM pay their money, get their instruction,
and go off and practice on their own without having
any further contact with the TMO, except perhaps for
an occasional checking session.  Surely you would agree
that this is a fact, not a subjective impression?

Wherever the TMO may be on the cult scale, it exists
to teach people to meditate, not to recruit them into
the organization, unlike, say, the Moonies.  You have
to make a decision to become more involved; and if,
like your student, you're wary of being drawn in to
start with, it's highly unlikely that you will be.

Seems to me the number of teachers who have become
independent, or would like to be able to teach
without having to go along with all the nutty stuff,
is evidence of what I'm pointing out.



 
 I think I do the TMO a great favour not to say anything.
 Ingegerd
 








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip

 
 I think this is a Big Spiritual Mistake. I think
 that
 anyone's life is really about the raw footage of
 that life -- the clean parts *and* the messy parts.
 And I think that this is even more true when dealing
 with enlightenment. The enlightened *aren't* all
 squeaky clean. They fart and shit like other people,
 and as far as I can tell they make messy mistakes
 like other people. I believe that editing their
 lives to make it appear as they don't is a
 disservice
 to the enlightened themselves, and to people who
 seek
 enlightenment and hope to find it in their example.
 
 I don't know whether the press conferences in ques-
 tion are being edited to remove the messy parts,
 but it is *completely* consistent with TM movement
 history that they are. I have certainly seen the
 edits
 done on other tapes and books over the years.  And
 I'm
 just rappin' about this because I think it's a
 mistake,
 a disservice to the person being edited, and to the 
 seekers who are forced to view an edited version
 of life. IMO, real life is always better.
 
 Just my opinion,
 
 Unc

Excellent post. When I did video production in Ffld I
used to interact on a regular basis with MIU's video
production department. On a near regular basis I would
see raw MMY footage being edited to remove sections
that did not adhere to top administrators' ideal of
what MMY should say. Usually international did this
but every once in a while MIU video would edit some of
these tapes. I also saw them do this on a Triguna tape
where the edit completely reversed his intended
meaning. The person editing the tape showed me the raw
footage and the finished product. He told me that he
was directly told by someone in the MIU administration
to edit particular parts of the tape.



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

 Your attempt is admirable, Barry, but it won't
help. Hope does spring eternal, but trying to make a
rational end-run around someone's seemingly disturbed
psychology usually doesn't work as I've discovered in
my profession. To help, first there has to be a good
therapeutic relationship and the person in question
must recognize, to some extent, that not all is quite
right in their head. Neither of these criteria seem to
be fulfilled in this case. I also noticed you started
to do what I did and get caught up in what
psychoanalytic thought calls projective
identification. The person in question unconsciously
projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
personality onto others and provokes them into
responding/behaving in accord with that unintegrated
part. People have a tendency to go off on the person
in question thus perpetuating the abuse he experiences
and recreating this abuse in a repetition compulsion
that unconsciously seeks to resolve the original abuse
in current relationships. Unless this is consciously
recognized, it just continues on and on and on until
that complex of samskaras are disolved. I wouldn't say
the person in question has MPD/DID, but we are
experiencing the extremes of unintegrated aspects of a
personality damaged by severe abuse. I wish him the
best too and will refrain from making wise-ass cracks
at his expense in the future because this simply
re-traumatizes the person rather than giving insight. 

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  This is like watching Robin Williams doing his 
  schizophrenia comedy routine, with two
 personalities
  in the same being arguing back and forth with each
  other. Except that Robin's routine is funny, and 
  this is very sad and very scary indeed. Get some
  help, Tom, and by that I don't mean Spend more
  money on yagyas.  As far as I can tell, you're
  getting closer and closer to being one of those
  guys we read about who snaps one day and decides
  to kill all the people he believes are
 persecuting 
  him.  
  
  This is beyond allowing your tortured Inner Child
  to scream in public, Tom...this is verging on
 full-
  blown insanity.  Please get help.  I've tried to
  support your occasional positive actions here on 
  FFL, but I'm really worried about you.  
  
  Unc/Barry
 
 Tom, 
 
 Because I really *am* concerned about you, I'm
 going to point out something that doesn't seem
 to have occurred to you.  It's becoming really
 painful to see you acting out what seems to be
 Multiple Personality Disorder here on this forum,
 posting under two different names, and with two
 obviously different personalities, poles apart,
 and with one polar post appearing within minutes 
 of another one, equally polar but in the opposite
 direction.  In my book this is not an indication 
 of someone who is getting better as a result 
 of yagyas, but worse.
 
 And you've taken it upon yourself to try to act
 out your resentment at people here telling you
 the truth about some of the things you post here
 by trying to get the forum itself removed from
 Yahoo.  That is simply unacceptable, and in my
 book is yet another symptom of a serious mental
 disorder that needs treatment.
 
 Here's the thing that probably has not occurred
 to you.  What if someone here, someone who actually
 cares about you and is interested in your welfare,
 took it upon himself or herself to email the posts
 you made here yesterday under two different names to
 
 the provider of the yagyas you seem to hold so dear?
 From what you have said in your posts about them,
 they seem to be ethical people who are genuinely
 concerned that their service has the greatest 
 possible benefit for those paying for them.
 
 How do you think they'd react to discovering that
 one of their clients is reacting to their services
 by acting out in a way that Western psychologists
 would characterize as having episodes of multiple
 personality disorder?  How do you think they'd 
 react to learning that one of their clients is
 trying his best to act out his hurt and rage by
 harming other people rather than helping them?
 
 I somehow suspect that they might think twice about
 accepting future payments from you, and conducting
 future yagyas for you.  I somehow suspect they would
 be *shocked* to learn who it was they were really
 dealing with, and might wish to not involve them-
 selves and their karma with someone who is obviously
 having some serious mental problems.
 
 In other words, they might just cut you off at the
 pump, Tom.
 
 A word to the wise.  I am not going to write such
 an email.  I trust to your higher nature, and to
 that higher nature winning out if you realize 
 that if someone else were to do to you what you
 have so blithely done to others here that it would
 be painful and really fuck with your life.
 
 A word to the wise.  Grow the fuck up.  Stop this
 infantile acting out, and allow people

Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread MDixon6569







In a message dated 12/14/05 5:41:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I 
  am not exaggerating at all either. He made himself look 
  andsound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic

Can you say Ayatolla 
Maharishi?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India

MMY's personality is very much a product of his time
and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through an
aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old Hindu
man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
for the past 50 years. The value of our interaction
with him has nothing to do with the surface of this
relationship. This surface always varies from guru
to guru and is quite irrelevent to the transcendent
value of the relationship. MMY doesn't give a damn
about your personality. It is utterly irrelevent to
your Realization.

--- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I have received an email relating to a press
 conference in which MMY 
 allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill
 tempered raving 
 lunatic.
 Does anyone know of such a conference and do they
 have a transcript?
 
 Follows an extract of the email received:-
 
 'It might interest you to know that during the
 summer of 2004 
 I
 was watching a free live transmission of a Maharishi
 Press conference 
 from
 Holland to India.  I had been watching these free
 for a limited time
 Maharishi press conferences for about the whole
 summer.  In each 
 session,
 John Hagelin of MUM was fielding questions from the
 press for 
 Maharishi.
 Maharishi would then give a thorough answer and/or
 message that was 
 very
 pleasing to hear.  However, one day as I was
 watching a special 
 broadcast of
 the Maharishi speaking to India, he absolutely lost
 it (so to speak) 
 and
 began what amounted to be a complete 30-45 minute
 tyrannical speech 
 about
 how India is still being kept down by its Britisher
 foreigners and 
 their
 religion of suffering-Christianity.
 
 I was stunned when he started advocating that
 Indians begin to 
 angrily 
 and
 forcibly directly threaten Britishers and
 Christians (namely 
 women) 
 by
 explaining that if they didn't leave India
 immediately 
 their, Husbands 
 and
 children's lives would be in great danger.  And
 that was only one 
 small
 quote.  I watched in disbelief as he threw all
 caution to the wind and
 started chastising the Indian Press and basically
 all of India for 
 copying
 the West and becoming less Spiritual.  He was out
 of control to 
 tell 
 you
 the truth.  I am not exaggerating at all either.  He
 made himself 
 look 
 and
 sound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic. 
 Literally trying to incite
 violence?  I was stunned at how much disrespect and
 open contempt he 
 was
 displaying towards Britishers and westerners in
 general.  It was
 unthinkable, the things that he was saying.  He was
 openly instructing
 others to throw the bloody Britishers out or they
 will pay a heavy 
 price
 for staying, mainly he explained because of British
 involvement in 
 the 
 War
 in Iraq and the fact that these democratically run
 foreign countries 
 were
 dragging the spirituality of India and her people
 down.  Also he kept 
 on
 repeating get away from democracy get away from
 democracy.'
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India



--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 In a message dated 12/14/05 5:41:23 A.M. Central
 Standard Time,  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 I  am not exaggerating at all either.  He made
 himself 
 look  
 and
 sound like an Ill tempered raving lunatic
 
 
 Can you say Ayatolla  Maharishi?

Kickin' wimpy waking state ass and taken no
prisoners!! That's my Maha! Callin' in an airstrike on
his own position. Balls the size of France, man! He
will do anything, ANYTHING, to crack your ignorance.



 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

Rick, you really need to get rid of this guy.

--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
  
   
   It's a minor annoyance to most of us but one
 fellow in the UK 
 said
  he reads
   FFL on a public library computer and can no
 longer get in 
 because of its
   adult classification. If this is the result of
 someone 
 complaining to
   Yahoo, then I'd say they have a serious case of
 if you don't 
 play
  my way
   I'm taking my football and going home syndrome.
 Multiply that 
 tendency
   1,000 times and you have a terrorist blowing up
 innocent people.
  
  
  Because there's a total lack of civility seen in
 other groups, 
 because
  there are people who get their rocks off by
 playing now I've got 
 you,
  so sonofabitch, because there are Drs who
 should keep their
  diagnosis to their own unfortunate clients and not
 to FFL, there 
 are
  people out to get FFL closed down in the belief
 that freedom of 
 speech
  does not include deriding and belittling people
 over and over and
  over again.  If this is such a spiritual group,
 why aren't people
  called when they do such things to people?  It's
 possible that 
 someone
  tried to get FFL closed down because of someone
 posting 
 inappropriate
  material then someone complained once again to
 Yahoo.  Rick knows 
 the
  whole story, only he's keeping it quiet.  Quiet is
 something Rick
  should not be. He's the group owner and moderator.
  Quiet makes him
  accomplice.  Posting rules doesn't cut it. 
 Cutting someone down 
 when
  they go on the attack is what needs to be done.
  
  Unless, until FFL polices itself, there will be
 people trying
  everything they can to get FFL closed down,
 including interviewing
  with and being hired by Yahoo so they can then
 have the power to 
 pull
  the plug on not only FFL but all the members with
 Yahoo email
  addresses so the group can't reform.
  
  Characterize it (character, what an interesting
 word) as a play 
 by my
  rules or I take my ball home if you wish.  Read
 the posts and 
 tell me
  if there has been sufficient civility to warrant
 FFL continuing
  another second.  
  
  Play by the rules of civility or the group will be
 closed down, if
  bribes, calling in favors from friends in infamous
 families,  and
  endless number of complaints against Yahoo don't
 close don't this
  group, nothing will.  Play by the rules of
 civility and people 
 won't
  feel they've entered a minefield where whatever
 they post will be
  pounced upon again and again and again.  And won't
 feel the need to
  stiffle free speech.  Or spend their free time
 networking to find
  just the right person to get the plug pulled on
 FFL.
  
  Terrorists?  Disappointed you can't access FFL
 from a public 
 library?
  Blame the major flippant posters of FFL for that. 
 If you go to the
  site and suddenly it's no longer there, blame said
 posters for 
 that as
  well.  And blame yourself for not saying cut that
 out in 
 response to
  the uncivil posts.  
  
  BTW, the posts of Rudra Joe were enough to get
 this group an Adult
  rating or deletion years ago.  It just took a
 while for Yahoo to 
 catch
  on. 
  
  Get it?
 
 Oh darn...it got posted. I was ranting a bit folks,
 again, and 
 didn't mean to hit the send key. I really must stop
 being so sneaky 
 and making vague threats to you all. My buttons got
 pushed, 
 especially by Rudra Joe, way back when. And Dr.
 Pete- who I now 
 acknowledge really nailed it when he addressed my
 posting several 
 back.
 
 And that stuff I just said about 'if bribes, calling
 in favors from 
 friends in infamous families, and endless number of
 complaints 
 against Yahoo don't close don't this group, nothing
 will.  Play by 
 the rules of civility...etc '. I really overstepped
 my bounds, and 
 realize that empty threats don't amount to much,
 especially 
 anaonymously...
 
 So anyway, keep up the free exchange of ideas, and I
 will try my 
 best to restrain myself in the future...I for one
 really hope we are 
 able to get this site back to a non-Adult Category
 again. Cheers.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guide to the Perplexed? Perhaps?



--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dr. Natan
 Ophir 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   Being new to this group, I would appreciate if
 someone posts a key 
   to explain who is against whom, or pro and
 contra TMO, or pushing 
   which agenda. Would be kind of handy for
 newcomers. A simple Guide 
   to the Perplexed.
  
  With all due respect, I think the credo of this
 group
  is that people should make such determinations for
  *themselves*, not rely on others to do it for
 them.
 
 
 Uh-oh, Judy and Unc agreed on something...

Another sign of the rising sattva in the collective
consciousness of the world!


 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  Your attempt is admirable, Barry, but it won't
 help. Hope does spring eternal, but trying to make a
 rational end-run around someone's seemingly disturbed
 psychology usually doesn't work as I've discovered in
 my profession. To help, first there has to be a good
 therapeutic relationship and the person in question
 must recognize, to some extent, that not all is quite
 right in their head. Neither of these criteria seem to
 be fulfilled in this case. I also noticed you started
 to do what I did and get caught up in what
 psychoanalytic thought calls projective
 identification. The person in question unconsciously
 projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
 personality onto others and provokes them into
 responding/behaving in accord with that unintegrated
 part. People have a tendency to go off on the person
 in question thus perpetuating the abuse he experiences
 and recreating this abuse in a repetition compulsion
 that unconsciously seeks to resolve the original abuse
 in current relationships. Unless this is consciously
 recognized, it just continues on and on and on until
 that complex of samskaras are disolved. I wouldn't say
 the person in question has MPD/DID, but we are
 experiencing the extremes of unintegrated aspects of a
 personality damaged by severe abuse. I wish him the
 best too and will refrain from making wise-ass cracks
 at his expense in the future because this simply
 re-traumatizes the person rather than giving insight. 

I had nothing in mind as high-falutin' as you
describe in psychoanalytic terms. In my exper-
ience those who mistreat others consistently
have no concept of what their actions would
feel like if someone did the exact same thing
to them. I was hoping that Tom was still 
together enough to *feel* what it would be
like if someone did to him what he's been
attempting to do to the people on FFL.

But my suggestion was a real one. I suspect that
the Yagyas By Choice people would have nothing
to do with him if they were aware of how he's
been using the energy they've been sending his
way. We'll see how things turn out. We can only
hope for the best, for all concerned.

 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   This is like watching Robin Williams doing his 
   schizophrenia comedy routine, with two
  personalities
   in the same being arguing back and forth with each
   other. Except that Robin's routine is funny, and 
   this is very sad and very scary indeed. Get some
   help, Tom, and by that I don't mean Spend more
   money on yagyas.  As far as I can tell, you're
   getting closer and closer to being one of those
   guys we read about who snaps one day and decides
   to kill all the people he believes are
  persecuting 
   him.  
   
   This is beyond allowing your tortured Inner Child
   to scream in public, Tom...this is verging on
  full-
   blown insanity.  Please get help.  I've tried to
   support your occasional positive actions here on 
   FFL, but I'm really worried about you.  
   
   Unc/Barry
  
  Tom, 
  
  Because I really *am* concerned about you, I'm
  going to point out something that doesn't seem
  to have occurred to you.  It's becoming really
  painful to see you acting out what seems to be
  Multiple Personality Disorder here on this forum,
  posting under two different names, and with two
  obviously different personalities, poles apart,
  and with one polar post appearing within minutes 
  of another one, equally polar but in the opposite
  direction.  In my book this is not an indication 
  of someone who is getting better as a result 
  of yagyas, but worse.
  
  And you've taken it upon yourself to try to act
  out your resentment at people here telling you
  the truth about some of the things you post here
  by trying to get the forum itself removed from
  Yahoo.  That is simply unacceptable, and in my
  book is yet another symptom of a serious mental
  disorder that needs treatment.
  
  Here's the thing that probably has not occurred
  to you.  What if someone here, someone who actually
  cares about you and is interested in your welfare,
  took it upon himself or herself to email the posts
  you made here yesterday under two different names to
  
  the provider of the yagyas you seem to hold so dear?
  From what you have said in your posts about them,
  they seem to be ethical people who are genuinely
  concerned that their service has the greatest 
  possible benefit for those paying for them.
  
  How do you think they'd react to discovering that
  one of their clients is reacting to their services
  by acting out in a way that Western psychologists
  would characterize as having episodes of multiple
  personality disorder?  How do you think they'd 
  react to learning that one of their clients is
  trying his best to act out his hurt and rage by
  harming other

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 on 12/13/05 10:24 PM, anonymousff at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  BTW, the posts of Rudra Joe were enough to get
 this group an Adult
  rating or deletion years ago.  It just took a
 while for Yahoo to catch
  on. 
 
 That's true Tom, but some of your posts have been
 far more egregious. Most
 people don't have a problem with discussions about
 sex and drugs in the
 proper context, but very few people tolerate racism
 and bigotry in any
 context. Skokie may resent, but tolerate, an adult
 book store, but when the
 Nazis decide to march there, it's a different story.
 Racy posts such as
 Rudra Joe's have been a tiny fraction of the total
 here. It is dishonest and
 mean-spirited to try to characterize the group as
 predominated by that kind
 of post. You haven't always been treated kindly by
 the people here, but if
 you could see yourself as others see you, you would
 understand why. I try to
 keep in mind the difficulties you've been through
 when you're being hostile,
 and to express appreciation when it is deserved, as
 I did in the previous
 post. But I feel it is petty and small minded to
 spend your energies trying
 to destroy the group. Stop lashing out at the world
 and you'll find it a
 nicer place.

You have been added to the list, Rick!



 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice Payback



--- Tom Pall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  Tom, you gotta leave that geisha by the stream,
 man.
  She's too heavy to carry all this time.
  -Pete the Vet
 
 You have to learn that there are sometimes long
 lasting consequences
 to your actions.  Consequences which aren't
 dispelled by your usual
 quip or in the usual TMO/MUM or announcement of
 reversal or denial
 anything ever happened which seems to part of your
 upbringing or MIU
 experiences.   Sometimes if you deride a person
 enough they rightfully
 develop a grudge.  And they decide that you are as
 bad and hopeless
 and hateful a person as you characterized and
 gloated over and over
 again that they were.
 
 Joke while you can.  While FF still has a Life at
 Yahoo.


Stop smokin' me up, Tom! I refuse to play a part in
your psyche anymore. It is very difficult to resist.
You are a powerful dude, seriously! I wish you only
the best, but please stop leaving little and medium
sized poo-poos all over the carpet here.


 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Ingegerd

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 snip
 
  
  I think this is a Big Spiritual Mistake. I think
  that
  anyone's life is really about the raw footage of
  that life -- the clean parts *and* the messy parts.
  And I think that this is even more true when dealing
  with enlightenment. The enlightened *aren't* all
  squeaky clean. They fart and shit like other people,
  and as far as I can tell they make messy mistakes
  like other people. I believe that editing their
  lives to make it appear as they don't is a
  disservice
  to the enlightened themselves, and to people who
  seek
  enlightenment and hope to find it in their example.
  
  I don't know whether the press conferences in ques-
  tion are being edited to remove the messy parts,
  but it is *completely* consistent with TM movement
  history that they are. I have certainly seen the
  edits
  done on other tapes and books over the years.  And
  I'm
  just rappin' about this because I think it's a
  mistake,
  a disservice to the person being edited, and to the 
  seekers who are forced to view an edited version
  of life. IMO, real life is always better.
  
  Just my opinion,
  
  Unc
 
 Excellent post. When I did video production in Ffld I
 used to interact on a regular basis with MIU's video
 production department. On a near regular basis I would
 see raw MMY footage being edited to remove sections
 that did not adhere to top administrators' ideal of
 what MMY should say. Usually international did this
 but every once in a while MIU video would edit some of
 these tapes. I also saw them do this on a Triguna tape
 where the edit completely reversed his intended
 meaning. The person editing the tape showed me the raw
 footage and the finished product. He told me that he
 was directly told by someone in the MIU administration
 to edit particular parts of the tape.
 
This is my experience too. What MMY say alive is very different from 
what is published from the TMO - either by video or press release.
The heavy stuff is taken out.
Ingegerd
 
 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread MDixon6569







In a message dated 12/14/05 8:53:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Can you 
  say Ayatolla Maharishi?Kickin' wimpy waking state ass and taken 
  noprisoners!! That's my Maha! Callin' in an airstrike onhis own 
  position. Balls the size of France, man! Hewill do anything, ANYTHING, to 
  crack your ignorance.

I said Ayatolla Maharishi , not Ghengis Maharishi! LOL! my 
point being that he sounds more like any other fundamentalist from any other 
religion. Maybe a little more Islamic like with his throw out the Christians by 
force sentiment. But you are right , it's like he is calling in air strikes on 
his own position. Only thing is with such speak he only damages his own image, 
which I suppose could be a false image in some peoples 
eyes.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in India

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I said Ayatolla Maharishi , not Ghengis Maharishi! LOL! my point being that he sounds more like any other fundamentalist from any other religion. Maybe a little more Islamic like with his throw out the Christians by force sentiment. But you are right , it's like he is calling in air strikes on his own position. Only thing is with such speak he only damages his own image, which I suppose could be a false image in some peoples eyes.The parallels are striking. What is Maharishi Vedic Science but Maharishi Creation Science--Creation Science with a different mask. The Christian Creation Science adherents will sometime point out the similarity to the Big Bang and Genesis. For The Mahesh Creation Science people it's the first word of the Rig Veda "Agni" as Hindu Quantum Cosmology. Similarly the first word of Genesis, Bereshith, is said to show the sequential unfolding of Creation. How different is "Natural Law" and it's caste system than a right-wing theocracy in this country which seeks to legalize millions of illegal aliens to create a new slave class for their republican corporate slave-mongers?Both are a right-wing political phenomena wedded with religion.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] 1032 Members

on 12/14/05 7:23 AM, lurkernomore20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if
 we're being monitored.  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two
 weeks of postings.

It wasn't sudden. Sign-ups keep trickling in, but they've slowed since our
category reclassification, because you can no longer find FFL by searching
for keywords in its description.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

on 12/14/05 7:36 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Snip
 
 I think this is a Big Spiritual Mistake. I think that
 anyone's life is really about the raw footage of
 that life -- the clean parts *and* the messy parts.
 And I think that this is even more true when dealing
 with enlightenment. The enlightened *aren't* all
 squeaky clean. They fart and shit like other people,
 and as far as I can tell they make messy mistakes
 like other people. I believe that editing their
 lives to make it appear as they don't is a disservice
 to the enlightened themselves, and to people who seek
 enlightenment and hope to find it in their example.

Your post reminds me of why Oprah Winfrey is such a spiritual person. My
wife has been watching her 6-DVD 20th Anniversary special - highlights of
her past 20 years. Oprah's heart is wide open. She feels others' pain as her
own. And she is brutally honest with herself in front of 20 million people,
sometimes appearing without makeup, talking about her weight problems, etc.
Very inspiring lady.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Jason Spock




 There are 150 million Muslims in india.!! Does Maharishi wants to throw them out too.?? Maharishi also seems to hate the German efficiency. Hecriticised it a couple of times in his speeches.OriginalMessage-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:27:47 EST Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The British in IndiaI said Ayatolla Maharishi , not Ghengis Maharishi! LOL! my point being that he sounds more like any other fundamentalist from any other religion. Maybe a little more Islamic like with his throw out the Christians by force sentiment. But you are right , it's like he is calling in air strikes on his own position. Only thing is with such speak he only damages his own image, which I suppose could be a false image in some peoples eyes. 
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 MMY's personality is very much a product of his time
 and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
 cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through an
 aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old Hindu
 man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
 for the past 50 years.

Boy, I think this is an important point.

Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
slightly differently and say, This is *how*
Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
this particular aging, slightly senile,
lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
for the past 50 years?

I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
*realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
either of these two statements.

But people tend to look at the *expression*,
find it to be much less than what they think
of as perfection in a relative sense, and
on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
Brahman.

Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
one's individual take; it's just that the take
shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
perceived distance of the expression from what
they would consider relative perfection.

So what should it be based on??  I assume
realized people and nonrealized people have
different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
consciousness.

From my unrealized perspective, it's a
combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
consistency of his teaching on the nature and
mechanics of consciousness (including its
implementation in the TM technique), as well 
as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.

It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).

Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
relative perfection, which is what I just said
you shouldn't do.

Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
the TMO.

Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
expresses against a personal idea of relative 
perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
expression over another make a difference?  Or
are both approaches essentially absurd?

Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
here...






 The value of our interaction
 with him has nothing to do with the surface of this
 relationship. This surface always varies from guru
 to guru and is quite irrelevent to the transcendent
 value of the relationship. MMY doesn't give a damn
 about your personality. It is utterly irrelevent to
 your Realization.
 
 --- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  I have received an email relating to a press
  conference in which MMY 
  allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill
  tempered raving 
  lunatic.
snip






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

on 12/14/05 9:01 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 But my suggestion was a real one. I suspect that
 the Yagyas By Choice people would have nothing
 to do with him if they were aware of how he's
 been using the energy they've been sending his
 way. We'll see how things turn out. We can only
 hope for the best, for all concerned.

Unless they can be bought. Chances are he's their top-paying customer. They
might feel as he does that yagyas are the solution to all his problems,
however severe they may be.




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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

2005-12-14 Thread Patrick Gillam

--- Peter wrote:

 projective
 identification. The person in question unconsciously
 projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
 personality onto others and provokes them into
 responding/behaving in accord with that unintegrated
 part. People have a tendency to go off on the person
 in question thus perpetuating the abuse he experiences

This reminds me of a problem I've noticed in myself. 
I've found myself treating people the way they I suspect 
they wish to be treated, rather than in a way that reflects 
my ideals. 

I recall an example from years ago when lurkman and 
I just got done sledding on a hill in front of a museum 
that was showing a slavery retrospective. We're white. 
As we piled our gear into the car, a black man came 
out of the museum, reasonably and visibly upset. His 
car was parked next to ours. I opened our car door 
carelessly and it bumped the rubber bumper of the 
black man's car. He jumped out, furious, and examined 
his car for damage. Thank God I hit the rubber, and 
there was no scuff. But did I explain? Did I apologize? 
Did I try to palliate his outrage? No. I thought of it, 
but decided, He wants to feel put upon. I won't spoil 
it for him.

I felt like I was part of a larger matrix and had no 
individual will.

We drove away without a word.

I marvel at my assholeness to this day.





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[FairfieldLife] Read along with Tom

2005-12-14 Thread Tom Pall






"The experience of the Self, or "self-referral," 
means that our internal reference point is our own spirit, and not the object of 
our experience. The opposite of self-referral is object-referral. In 
object-referral we are always influenced by objects outside the Self, which 
include situations, circumstances, people, and things. In object-referral 
we are constantly seeking the approval of others. Our thinking and our 
behavior are always in anticipation of a response. It is therefore 
fear-based.

In object-referral we also feel an intense need to 
control things. We feel an intense need for external power. The need 
for approval, the need to control things, and the need for external power are 
needs that are based on fear. This kind of power is not the power of pure 
potentiality, or the power of the Self, or /real/ power. When we 
experience the power of the Self, there is an absence of fear, there is no 
compulsion to control, and no struggle for approval or external 
power.

In object-referral, your internal reference point 
is your ego. The ego, however, is not who you really are. The ego is 
your self-image; it is your social mask; it is the role you are 
playing. Your social mask thrives on approval. It wants to 
control, and it is sustained by power, because it lives in fear.

Your true Self, which is your spirit, your soul, is 
completely free of those things. It is immune to criticism, it is 
unfearful of any challenge, and it feels beneath no one. And yet, it is 
also humble and feels superior to no one, because it recognizes that everyone 
else is the same Self, the same spirit in different disguises.

That's the essential difference between 
object-referral and self-referral. In self-referral, you experience your true 
being, which is unfearful of any change, has respect for all people, and feels 
beneath no one. Self-power is therefore true power.

Power based on object-referral, however, is false 
power. Being ego-based power, it lasts only as long as the object of 
reference is there. If you have a certain title -- if you're the president 
of the country or the chairman of a corporation -- or if you have a lot of 
money, the power you enjoy goes with the title, with the job, with the 
money. Ego-based power will only last as long as those things last. 
As soon as the title, the job, the money go way, so does the power.

Self-power, on the other hand, is permanent, 
because it is based on the knowledge of the Self. And there are certain 
characteristics of self-power. It draws people to you, and it also draws 
things that you want to you. It magnetizes people, situations, and 
circumstances to support your desires. This is also called support from 
the laws of nature. It is the support of divinity; it is the support 
that comes from being in the state of grace. Your power is such that you 
enjoy a bond with people, and people enjoy a bond with you. Your power is 
that of bonding -- a boding that comes from true love."

--Deepak Chropa, The Seven Spiritual Laws of 
Success





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Re: [FairfieldLife] 1032 Members

2005-12-14 Thread Sal Sunshine

Or maybe it's just different keywords. :)

Sal


On Dec 14, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Rick Archer wrote:

 It wasn't sudden. Sign-ups keep trickling in, but they've slowed since our
 category reclassification, because you can no longer find FFL by searching
 for keywords in its description.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Premanand Paul Mason

There is no question that MMY disparages Britain, the issue has already 
provoked much discussion on FFL. Since he has broadcast anti-British 
propaganda, it would be grossly irresponsible and incredible if this 
information were suppressed. It would be interesting to know the exact 
wording of his transmissions to those in India.



  
 Is this how you conduct research for your published books?  
To fish for 
 corroboration by broadcasting the above  without requiring your 
source to be specific
 regarding date of speech, or week, or month, even, is grossly 
irresponsible, and certainly 
 lowers your credibility as a biographical author.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 There is no question that MMY disparages Britain, the issue has 
already 
 provoked much discussion on FFL. Since he has broadcast anti-
British 
 propaganda, it would be grossly irresponsible and incredible if 
this 
 information were suppressed. It would be interesting to know the 
exact 
 wording of his transmissions to those in India.
 
 
 
   
  Is this how you conduct research for your published 
books?  
 To fish for 
  corroboration by broadcasting the above  without requiring your 
 source to be specific
  regarding date of speech, or week, or month, even, is grossly 
 irresponsible, and certainly 
  lowers your credibility as a biographical author.
 


So, if MMY lost it and later decided he had said too much in public, 
its not his perogative to edit the remarks that he doesn't want 
remembered?

And of course, since we don't have access to the raw footage, we 
don't even know if these remarks were actually said in the first 
place...






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Re: [FairfieldLife] 1032 Members

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] 1032 Members





on 12/14/05 10:23 AM, Sal Sunshine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Or maybe it's just different keywords. :) 

Sal 
 

The adult classification blocks the group from coming up in search results.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:59 AM, authfriend wrote:as well  as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value. There's a Freudian slip if ever I saw one!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  MMY's personality is very much a product of his time
  and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
  cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through an
  aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old Hindu
  man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
  for the past 50 years.
 
 Boy, I think this is an important point.
 
 Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
 slightly differently and say, This is *how*
 Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
 this particular aging, slightly senile,
 lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
 run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
 for the past 50 years?
 
 I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
 *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
 either of these two statements.
 
 But people tend to look at the *expression*,
 find it to be much less than what they think
 of as perfection in a relative sense, and
 on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
 Brahman.
 
 Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
 one's individual take; it's just that the take
 shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
 perceived distance of the expression from what
 they would consider relative perfection.
 
snip

Brilliant posts Judy, and Peter! ...we're back to 'the meaty 
stuff'...

I have watched my own evolution of my perceptions of Maharishi's 
expressions, and what has happened is I kept trying to have an 
opinion about him, where he was headed, what his initiatives mean, 
why the people around him do what they do, and despite my best 
intentions, I am now in a 'watching what comes next, fascinated' 
mode.

Maharishi has managed to transcend everything I have ever felt or 
thought about him, and now my experience is that of watching Shiva 
incarnate. However, lest you think, 'aha, Jim is making an opinion 
of Maharishi again...', this is really just a way to express my 
current perception. As we might imagine, Shiva incarnating has as 
much to do with the Infinite as He does with discrete actions.

I also want to make the strong point that the only way I am now able 
to just be with Maharishi's actions is by previously attending to 
all of my impressions of him, and watching them dissolve, one by one 
by one.

Is this a less certain way of watching Maharishi? Yes. Because there 
is no reserved parking space for me anymore, with regard to my 
judgement of him. 

He is what he is, whatever that is. Kind of like watching a tree 
grow from a sapling and trying to predict exactly what it will look 
like as it grows, which is impossible, because it continues to 
change. How do we judge the sky? Is it Hurricane Katrina, or a sunny 
day at the beach? 

Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my intellect,  
and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a master-
 disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
transcendent. Pure Paradox.  





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)



--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- Peter wrote:
 
  projective
  identification. The person in question
 unconsciously
  projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
  personality onto others and provokes them into
  responding/behaving in accord with that
 unintegrated
  part. People have a tendency to go off on the
 person
  in question thus perpetuating the abuse he
 experiences
 
 This reminds me of a problem I've noticed in myself.
 
 I've found myself treating people the way they I
 suspect 
 they wish to be treated, rather than in a way that
 reflects 
 my ideals. 
 
 I recall an example from years ago when lurkman and 
 I just got done sledding on a hill in front of a
 museum 
 that was showing a slavery retrospective. We're
 white. 
 As we piled our gear into the car, a black man came 
 out of the museum, reasonably and visibly upset. His
 
 car was parked next to ours. I opened our car door 
 carelessly and it bumped the rubber bumper of the 
 black man's car. He jumped out, furious, and
 examined 
 his car for damage. Thank God I hit the rubber, and 
 there was no scuff. But did I explain? Did I
 apologize? 
 Did I try to palliate his outrage? No. I thought of
 it, 
 but decided, He wants to feel put upon. I won't
 spoil 
 it for him.
 
 I felt like I was part of a larger matrix and had no
 
 individual will.
 
 We drove away without a word.
 
 I marvel at my assholeness to this day.

We're all marvelous assholes at times, aren't we? Like
when I'm driving along singing a bhajan and a guy cuts
in front of me, brakes too hard or does something to
violate my driving ideal and I scream at him and give
him the finger. Ha! What a jerk!  



 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I marvel at my assholeness to this day.
 
 We're all marvelous assholes at times, aren't we? Like
 when I'm driving along singing a bhajan and a guy cuts
 in front of me, brakes too hard or does something to
 violate my driving ideal and I scream at him and give
 him the finger. Ha! What a jerk!  

I've always felt that developing a sense of comfort
with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is far
more important to spiritual progress than developing
a feel (almost always illusory) for one's holiness.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  MMY's personality is very much a product of his
 time
  and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
  cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
 an
  aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
 Hindu
  man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
 fist
  for the past 50 years.
 
 Boy, I think this is an important point.
 
 Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
 slightly differently and say, This is *how*
 Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
 this particular aging, slightly senile,
 lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
 run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
 for the past 50 years?

Yes, better stated your way.


 
 I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
 *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
 either of these two statements.
 
 But people tend to look at the *expression*,
 find it to be much less than what they think
 of as perfection in a relative sense, and
 on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
 Brahman.

Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
realized master, good luck! For example in a
residential Art of Living course I took about a year
ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
about the difficulty in walking around and how much
time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
be. My attachment, my problem, not his.

 
 Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
 one's individual take; it's just that the take
 shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
 perceived distance of the expression from what
 they would consider relative perfection.

The first time I saw MMY in 1972 my mind blew wide
open and left absolutely no doubts about his Realized
status. And in every ensuing contact with him over the
years this has happened over and over again with the
experience getting deeper and deeper everytime.

 
 So what should it be based on??  I assume
 realized people and nonrealized people have
 different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
 consciousness.

Your own direct experience...only!

 
 From my unrealized perspective, it's a
 combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
 depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
 consistency of his teaching on the nature and
 mechanics of consciousness (including its
 implementation in the TM technique), as well 
 as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.

Right, you find great value in his teachings.
 
 It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
 no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
 with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
 basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
 higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
 distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).

Ageed!
 
 Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
 close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
 relative perfection, which is what I just said
 you shouldn't do.

I don't think we can ever, to a complete degree, get
away from this. In fact, it perhaps is a foolish
spiritual ideal.
 
 Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
 evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
 of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
 which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
 evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
 social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
 the TMO.
 
 Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
 expresses against a personal idea of relative 
 perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
 expression over another make a difference?  Or
 are both approaches essentially absurd?
 
 Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
 here...

Yeah, but a good tangent  I think, ultimately, the
value of a guru/master is in him/her functioning as a
catalyst for one's own realization. This is
appreciated by people as their experiences with the
body of techniques offered, the intellectual
knowledge, and the transcendent darshan experiences
with the master.


 
 
 
 
 
 
  The value of our interaction
  with him has nothing to do with the surface of
 this
  relationship. This surface always varies from
 guru
  to guru and is quite irrelevent to the
 transcendent
  value of the relationship. MMY doesn't give a damn
  about your personality. It is utterly irrelevent
 to
  your Realization.
  
  --- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
   I have received an email relating to a press
   conference in which MMY 
   allegedly made himself look and sound like an
 Ill
   tempered raving 
   lunatic.
 snip

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip
 
 Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
 transcending my intellect,  
 and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
 actions. Like a master-
  disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
 ONLY in the 
 transcendent. Pure Paradox.

Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. Ha
Tomorrow night meditate under the full moon for a few
hours and watch that cosmic dance unfold in your
awareness.


 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 snip
  
  Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
  transcending my intellect,  
  and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
  actions. Like a master-
   disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
  ONLY in the 
  transcendent. Pure Paradox.
 
 Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
 surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
 there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
 that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
 bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
 absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 

And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
is a subjective feeling. I spent a lot of time
around Maharishi as well, and never felt anything
from him that I would attribute to enlightenment,
whereas I have with other people. Go figure.

I think the bottom line may be that if we could
react to everyone we meet (including ourselves) by 
cutting them the same slack we give to those we 
consider enlightened, the world might be a better 
place.  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

Is it even possible to join the group now? How do you find the group 
if you aren't already a member?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis

jim_flanegin writes; snipped
Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my intellect,  
and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a master-
 disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
transcendent. Pure Paradox.  

Tom T responds:
This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you have
any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character and
on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try and
figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful because it was and
confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not now
Not ever. Tom T





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 1:01 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this is a subjective feeling. I spent a lot of time around Maharishi as well, and never felt anything from him that I would attribute to enlightenment, whereas I have with other people. Go figure.  I think the bottom line may be that if we could react to everyone we meet (including ourselves) by  cutting them the same slack we give to those we  consider enlightened, the world might be a better  place.  :-) In the tradition I practice in, it is considered one of the aspects of the manifestations of staying in the state of unity to be able to see others in their enlightened forms. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

on 12/14/05 12:23 PM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is it even possible to join the group now? How do you find the group
 if you aren't already a member?

Someone has to tell you about it and provide the URL of the home page. You
won't find it by searching. That's a pity, because we've gotten some high
quality members who found us that way. For instance, Paula Youmans found us
by searching on Patanjali. Many people find the group my searching on
Maharishi, Transcendental Meditation, etc.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 jim_flanegin writes; snipped
 Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
intellect,  
 and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
master-
  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
 transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
 
 Tom T responds:
 This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
 values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
have
 any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
 that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
 Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
and
 on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
and
 figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
 I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
 enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful because it was 
and
 confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
now
 Not ever. Tom T

Along the lines of 'delightful confusion', the literally funny thing 
is (and I think you've mentioned this before Tom also...), is that 
whenever the intellect tries to make sense of the paradox that is 
Brahman, all that results is this little percolation of bliss. 

Many times a day I will juxtapose two complete opposites in my mind, 
the intellect will try for a resolution, going deeper and deeper, 
finally give up, bounce into the transcendent, back out again, and 
I'll break into a smile or small chuckle at this universal infinite 
joke... 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 jim_flanegin writes; snipped
 Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
 transcending my intellect,  
 and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
 actions. Like a master-
  disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
 ONLY in the 
 transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
 
 Tom T responds:
 This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold
 those extreme
 values inside one human mind and live with that
 paradox. If you have
 any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above
 and ponder on
 that for a while. This is the exposition and playing
 out of the
 Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony
 toon character and
 on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure
 Shiva, go try and
 figure it out and you can't. That is the definition
 of Brahman. 
 I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised,
 describe her
 enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful
 because it was and
 confusion because the mind was never going to figure
 it out. Not now
 Not ever. Tom T

That's what you don't think!




 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I said Ayatolla Maharishi , not Ghengis Maharishi! LOL! my point  
  being that he sounds more like any other fundamentalist from any  
  other religion. Maybe a little more Islamic like with his throw out  
  the Christians by force sentiment. But you are right , it's like he  
  is calling in air strikes on his own position. Only thing is with  
  such speak he only damages his own image, which I suppose could be  
  a false image in some peoples eyes.
 
 The parallels are striking. What is Maharishi Vedic Science but  
 Maharishi Creation Science--Creation Science with a different mask.  
 The Christian Creation Science  adherents will sometime point out the  
 similarity to the Big Bang and Genesis. For The Mahesh Creation  
 Science people it's the first word of the Rig Veda Agni as Hindu  
 Quantum Cosmology. Similarly the first word of Genesis, Bereshith, is  
 said to show the sequential unfolding of Creation. How different is  
 Natural Law and it's caste system than a right-wing theocracy in  
 this country which seeks to legalize millions of illegal aliens to  
 create a new slave class for their republican corporate slave-mongers?
 
 Both are a right-wing political phenomena wedded with religion.


It's odd. If Maharishi's so right-wing how come almost everyone
connected with him in the West leans so far left? It's a strange thing.

JohnY 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Sal Sunshine

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > 
 > On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > 
 > > I said Ayatolla Maharishi , not Ghengis Maharishi! LOL! my point  
 > > being that he sounds more like any other fundamentalist from any  
 > > other religion. Maybe a little more Islamic like with his throw out  
 > > the Christians by force sentiment. But you are right , it's like he  
 > > is calling in air strikes on his own position. Only thing is with  
 > > such speak he only damages his own image, which I suppose could be  
 > > a false image in some peoples eyes.
 > 
 > The parallels are striking. What is Maharishi Vedic Science but  
 > Maharishi Creation Science--Creation Science with a different mask. 

But the big question is...do they have Think  Draw? :)

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 snip
  
  Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
  transcending my intellect,  
  and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
  actions. Like a master-
   disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
  ONLY in the 
  transcendent. Pure Paradox.
 
 Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
 surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
 there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
 that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
 bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
 absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. Ha

Yeah!

 Tomorrow night meditate under the full moon for a few
 hours 

For a few *hours*?? No can do my friend- full moons already exert a 
very powerful influence on me, very much like flooring the 
accelerator, so just a glance will be enough. Often times when the 
moon is full, the world begins to turn absolutely transparent, and 
unless exhausted, sleep eludes me.

and watch that cosmic dance unfold in your
 awareness.
 
 
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 2:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:It's odd. If Maharishi's so right-wing how come almost everyone connected with him in the West leans so far left? It's a strange thing. It is. It's just the paradox of Brahman, so stop worrying. And he just has a funny way of showing his compassion. All is well.Is there great difference between a Christian fundie school kid who quotes the bible, talks of the Big Bang and tells about Jesus and a MSAE kid who quotes scientific literature, talks about AGNI and unified field theory to sell you his idea from M.? Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.





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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

2005-12-14 Thread Patrick Gillam

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   I marvel at my assholeness to this day.
  
  We're all marvelous assholes at times, aren't we? Like
  when I'm driving along singing a bhajan and a guy cuts
  in front of me, brakes too hard or does something to
  violate my driving ideal and I scream at him and give
  him the finger. Ha! What a jerk!  
 
 I've always felt that developing a sense of comfort
 with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is far
 more important to spiritual progress than developing
 a feel (almost always illusory) for one's holiness.

Sometimes I'm a jerk from my own wellspring of ego, 
but sometimes - to tie this back to Peter's original 
mention of projective identification - I buy into someone 
else's ego projection, and that's what surprises me. It's 
like I witness it, too, often.

Projective identification again:

 The person in question unconsciously
 projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
 personality onto others and provokes them into
 responding/behaving in accord with that unintegrated
 part.

I guess I can be manipulated by another person like that 
because the unintegrated/disowned aspect of their personality 
is living in me. 

Another opportunity for forgiveness, I suppose.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   MMY's personality is very much a product of his
  time
   and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
   cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
  an
   aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
  Hindu
   man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
  fist
   for the past 50 years.
  
  Boy, I think this is an important point.
  
  Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
  slightly differently and say, This is *how*
  Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
  this particular aging, slightly senile,
  lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
  run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
  for the past 50 years?
 
 Yes, better stated your way.
 
 
  
  I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
  *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
  either of these two statements.
  
  But people tend to look at the *expression*,
  find it to be much less than what they think
  of as perfection in a relative sense, and
  on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
  Brahman.
 
 Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
 realized master, good luck! For example in a
 residential Art of Living course I took about a year
 ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
 casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
 ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
 wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
 about the difficulty in walking around and how much
 time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
 another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
 at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
 serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
 Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
 be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
 
Yes. Funny what a process that is- engaging with a guru, and coming 
to terms with who he or she is, vs who we want them to be.

*Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
Maharishi's physical presence. 

and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru Dev 
(who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment of 
gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar of 
resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.

  
  Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
  one's individual take; it's just that the take
  shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
  perceived distance of the expression from what
  they would consider relative perfection.
 
 The first time I saw MMY in 1972 my mind blew wide
 open and left absolutely no doubts about his Realized
 status. And in every ensuing contact with him over the
 years this has happened over and over again with the
 experience getting deeper and deeper everytime.
 
  
  So what should it be based on??  I assume
  realized people and nonrealized people have
  different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
  consciousness.
 
 Your own direct experience...only!
 
  
  From my unrealized perspective, it's a
  combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
  depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
  consistency of his teaching on the nature and
  mechanics of consciousness (including its
  implementation in the TM technique), as well 
  as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.
 
 Right, you find great value in his teachings.
  
  It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
  no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
  with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
  basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
  higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
  distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).
 
 Ageed!
  
  Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
  close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
  relative perfection, which is what I just said
  you shouldn't do.
 
 I don't think we can ever, to a complete degree, get
 away from this. In fact, it perhaps is a foolish
 spiritual ideal.
  
  Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
  evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
  of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
  which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
  evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
  social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
  the TMO.
  
  Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
  expresses against a personal idea of relative 
  perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
  expression over another make a difference?  Or
  are both approaches essentially absurd?
  
  Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
  here...
 
 Yeah, but a good tangent  I think, ultimately, the
 value of a guru/master is in him/her functioning as a
 catalyst for one's own realization. This is

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Premanand Paul Mason

Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-face?


 *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
 Maharishi's physical presence. 
 
 and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
 when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru Dev 
 (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment of 
 gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar of 
 resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  MMY's personality is very much a product of his time
  and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
  cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through an
  aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old Hindu
  man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
  for the past 50 years.
 
 Boy, I think this is an important point.
 
 Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
 slightly differently and say, This is *how*
 Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
 this particular aging, slightly senile,
 lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
 run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
 for the past 50 years?
 
 I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
 *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
 either of these two statements.
 
 But people tend to look at the *expression*,
 find it to be much less than what they think
 of as perfection in a relative sense, and
 on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
 Brahman.
 
 Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
 one's individual take; it's just that the take
 shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
 perceived distance of the expression from what
 they would consider relative perfection.
 
 So what should it be based on??  I assume
 realized people and nonrealized people have
 different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
 consciousness.
 
 From my unrealized perspective, it's a
 combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
 depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
 consistency of his teaching on the nature and
 mechanics of consciousness (including its
 implementation in the TM technique), as well 
 as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.
 
 It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
 no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
 with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
 basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
 higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
 distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).
 
 Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
 close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
 relative perfection, which is what I just said
 you shouldn't do.
 
 Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
 evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
 of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
 which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
 evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
 social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
 the TMO.
 
 Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
 expresses against a personal idea of relative 
 perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
 expression over another make a difference?  Or
 are both approaches essentially absurd?
 
 Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
 here...
 
 
 
 
 
 
  The value of our interaction
  with him has nothing to do with the surface of this
  relationship. This surface always varies from guru
  to guru and is quite irrelevent to the transcendent
  value of the relationship. MMY doesn't give a damn
  about your personality. It is utterly irrelevent to
  your Realization.
  
  --- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
   I have received an email relating to a press
   conference in which MMY 
   allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill
   tempered raving 
   lunatic.
 snip



Judy, 
Just a few off the cuff comments to your thoughtful reply.

Regardless of your (our) judgement of Maharishi's state of
consciousness, how the teaching is manifested still has to be
evaluated critically. Does it acomplish it's purpose? This is part
process of life.

You'll find the same internal consistency in many of the more proment
Adviatic, Dzochen, Course in Miracles, etc. teachers. And many have
the same type of character flaws we talk about here.

Most of us agree that TM has inspired benificial unfoldment of
consciousness.  When we see or come into contact with Maharishi we get
a clearer reflection/experience of OUR own Self (Blazing Brahman is
non-dual, afterall)

We (both us and Maharishi) still have to work it out in the relative,
no matter what the perspective on where or who or from what state of
consciousness the  teaching comes from. 

Without meditators there is no movement, no TMO. 

JohnY








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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I also noticed you started
 to do what I did and get caught up in what
 psychoanalytic thought calls projective
 identification. The person in question unconsciously
 projects a unintegrated/disowned aspect of their
 personality onto others and provokes them into
 responding/behaving in accord with that unintegrated
 part. People have a tendency to go off on the person
 in question thus perpetuating the abuse he experiences
 and recreating this abuse in a repetition compulsion
 that unconsciously seeks to resolve the original abuse
 in current relationships. 

It would seem that this then is a healing mechanism of the mind --
parallel to healing mechanisms in the body. 

 Unless this is consciously
 recognized, it just continues on and on and on until
 that complex of samskaras are disolved. 

And if it is consciously recognized, and stopped, is the healing
stopped. Is the dissolving of that particular complex of  samskaras
left unresolved?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 jim_flanegin writes; snipped
 Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my intellect,  
 and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a master-/
  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
 transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
 
 Tom T responds:
 This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
 values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you have
 any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
 that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
 Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character and
 on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try and
 figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
 I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
 enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful because it was and
 confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not now
 Not ever. Tom T


Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even democratically-
elected / appointed political leaders like I can't explain it pretty
good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it so
I done it, I invaded Iraq revert to the same claim -- just trust my
explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's will',
'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 

How to differentiate I wonder? 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   MMY's personality is very much a product of his
  time
   and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
   cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
  an
   aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
  Hindu
   man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
  fist
   for the past 50 years.
  
  Boy, I think this is an important point.
  
  Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
  slightly differently and say, This is *how*
  Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
  this particular aging, slightly senile,
  lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
  run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
  for the past 50 years?
 
 Yes, better stated your way.
 
 
  
  I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
  *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
  either of these two statements.
  
  But people tend to look at the *expression*,
  find it to be much less than what they think
  of as perfection in a relative sense, and
  on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
  Brahman.
 
 Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
 realized master, good luck! For example in a
 residential Art of Living course I took about a year
 ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
 casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
 ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
 wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
 about the difficulty in walking around and how much
 time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
 another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
 at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
 serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
 Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
 be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
 
That's refreshing. It is rather funny after all. Especially for
Westerners.  That behavior is not really apart of our tradition.
The couple of times that I have seen him, the vib was very good and it
was interesting to see the birth and development of a major movement.
Deja-vu all over again ;-) 

JohnY


JohnY 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Read along with Tom

2005-12-14 Thread Patrick Gillam

I love this kind of thinking. It makes total sense. 
It's sorta my experience. It's what has drawn me 
into this pursuit of enlightenment. But there seem 
to be many cases where seemingly awakened 
people -- famous masters and participants in this 
forum -- don't behave as Dr. Deepak describes below.

If I'm drawing the wrong conclusion, please, 
someone who's realized the truth of what 
Chopra describes, correct me.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The experience of the Self, or self-referral, means that our internal 
 reference point is 
our own spirit, and not the object of our experience.  The opposite of 
self-referral is 
object-referral.  In object-referral we are always influenced by objects 
outside the Self, 
which include situations, circumstances, people, and things.  In 
object-referral we are 
constantly seeking the approval of others.  Our thinking and our behavior are 
always in 
anticipation of a response.  It is therefore fear-based.
 
 In object-referral we also feel an intense need to control things.  We feel 
 an intense 
need for external power.  The need for approval, the need to control things, 
and the need 
for external power are needs that are based on fear.  This kind of power is not 
the power 
of pure potentiality, or the power of the Self, or /real/ power.  When we 
experience the 
power of the Self, there is an absence of fear, there is no compulsion to 
control, and no 
struggle for approval or external power.
 
 In object-referral, your internal reference point is your ego.  The ego, 
 however, is not 
who you really are.  The ego is your self-image;  it is your social mask; it is 
the role you 
are playing.  Your social mask thrives on approval.   It wants to control, and 
it is sustained 
by power, because it lives in fear.
 
 Your true Self, which is your spirit, your soul, is completely free of those 
 things.  It is 
immune to criticism, it is unfearful of any challenge, and it feels beneath no 
one.  And yet, 
it is also humble and feels superior to no one, because it recognizes that 
everyone else is 
the same Self, the same spirit in different disguises.
 
 That's the essential difference between object-referral and self-referral. In 
 self-referral, 
you experience your true being, which is unfearful of any change, has respect 
for all 
people, and feels beneath no one.  Self-power is therefore true power.
 
 Power based on object-referral, however, is false power.  Being ego-based 
 power, it 
lasts only as long as the object of reference is there.  If you have a certain 
title -- if you're 
the president of the country or the chairman of a corporation -- or if you have 
a lot of 
money, the power you enjoy goes with the title, with the job, with the money.  
Ego-based 
power will only last as long as those things last.  As soon as the title, the 
job, the money 
go way, so does the power.
 
 Self-power, on the other hand, is permanent, because it is based on the 
 knowledge of 
the Self.  And there are certain characteristics of self-power.  It draws 
people to you, and it 
also draws things that you want to you.  It magnetizes people, situations, and 
circumstances to support your desires.  This is also called support from the 
laws of nature.  
It is the support of divinity;  it is the support that comes from being in the 
state of grace.  
Your power is such that you enjoy a bond with people, and people enjoy a bond 
with you.  
Your power is that of bonding -- a boding that comes from true love.
 
 --Deepak Chropa, The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  snip
   
   Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
   transcending my intellect,  
   and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
   actions. Like a master-
disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
   ONLY in the 
   transcendent. Pure Paradox.
  
  Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
  surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
  there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
  that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
  bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
  absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
 
 And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
 is a subjective feeling. 

A polite way of saying mood making, perhaps? 

And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of ones own projections
of how the world (and gurus) should be? I mean if one thinks MMY or
whoever is IT, THE ONE, won't the mind almost automatically create
a sense of that experience when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
rare event / (always a) special occasion?

Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were around MMY constantly
experience him as blazing brahman.

Could the need to experience a teacher as blazing brahman justify
the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at least in part as
trivial and silly projects of his?

Someone once said that the grandeur of the described experience
around the teacher is inversely proportional to ones proximity.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-face?
 
 
  *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
  Maharishi's physical presence. 
  
  and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
  when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru Dev 
  (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment of 
  gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar of 
  resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
 


In his dreams? 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: HaHo9's reply....Turq's Carde's and Stutphen's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  Why do you post these things to this newsgroup and
  then not interact with anyone about them?
 
 I'm not HH9, but I might venture an opinion.
 Often on this and other Internet discussion
 groups, interact with has become synonymous
 with defend yourself.  And with reason.  It
 seems *expected* that if you post a few things
 that you feel are uplifting that someone will
 take offense or want you to explain further
 and justify yourself for posting them. Some-
 times all you feel like doing is making a 
 statement, passing along something that you
 find inspiring, with the faint hope that others
 might find it inspiring as well.  When someone
 goes out of his or her way to crap on your
 parade, it kinda takes the fun out of things.
 So I suspect that some people just post the
 things they find inspiring and allow them to
 stand on their own, and allow those who want
 to discuss them ad infinitum and drain all 
 the power from them to do so on their own.  
 
 Just a guess, but an informed guess, having 
 been there, done that once or twice.


Greetings,

Turquoise has pretty much hit it on the head.
And to answer Cardemaister's and Dr. Pete's questions.

I learned the TM technique in Des Moines, Iowa in 1971. SCI Humbolt 1972. 
Became a 
teacher in Zinal, Suisse after 6 months of rounding in 1974. After another 6 
months of 
rounding in spring of 1976, I was called a Governor. (What a ruse)
I took what was called a Siddhis course in early '78. Went on to the Rhode 
Island Project 
that same summer with 7 buddies from Iowa. And while I was in the field 
bringing in the 
corn the morning of Oct. 13th that year, I got a call asking if I could be in 
NYC that night 
to go somewhere on the World Peace Project. (No time to throw it on the 
grinding stone) I 
did make it to NYC that night and found this body in Costa Rica just a couple 
of days later 
and then ended up in Nicaraugua under Martial Law. 
Moved to DC in spring of '83 and was a twice a day participant at the Senate 
super-
radiance.  I attended what was called Utopia that winter. Was one of the first 
group of 
teachers to perpetuate Unified Field Theory in the Philippines in the summer 
of '84. 
I moved to Fairfield May of 1985 where I was committed to twice a day in those 
filthy 
domes for 12 years. Attended the Noida Pioneers course in 1988. (I didn't 
tell them I had 
taken the Sterling Men's Weekend or Ali Najafi's SET courses.) I towed the 
line, or so they 
thought, in order to get what I thought was perfect knowledge.  Wonderful 
times and 
happy for the opportunities.

Then in 1996 I was given a cd called Inner Healing by Sri Ganapathi 
Sachchidananda 
Swamiji and a picture of Lord Dattatreya.
To make a long story short, the shifts that took place were beyond anything I'd 
ever 
dreamed, a beautiful wife, a beautifully magical place in the country, great 
friendships, 
and Sat Chit Ananda through this new music. I then gave it all up. Sold the 
farm, burned 
my badges, went on pilgrimages to Trinidad and India, and now live in Eugene, 
Oregon 
under the constant guidance of my Guru, to whom you may have become more 
familiar 
through this 18 day seva I have undertaken.

It shows that there are 1032 members in this group. I find that maybe there are 
maybe 
20-30 regular posters at best. What is that 2-3%? Granted many of the listed 
members 
may have lost interest and have not unsubscribed. It is evident that the 
regular 
participants here are dedicated to their stories and who am I to suggest 
otherwise?

Lord Dattatreya has been mostly unknown in USA. It is to those that may be 
listening in 
the wings of this group, who are maybe feeling disillusioned, as I once was 
about Guru 
and the lack of such, that I address these posts. I choose to post the wisdom 
of Sri 
Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji, who gives good advice about guru and gaining 
SatyaLoka.  I don't presume to know anything but what He and the scriptures 
say. He is 
Ganapathi and Sat Chid Ananda.
If one soul finds some resonance with anything that has been posted by me and 
sees some 
light in this darkness then I say Jaya Guru Deva Datta. I am not posting these 
pearls to 
discuss their viability or validity. The source of this knowledge is 
indisputable. This 
statement may raise some neck hairs, but more knowledgeable souls than what 
occupy 
this group have attempted such and found themselves prostrated at His feet. If 
anyone has 
taken the time to read the excerpts from His life it is easier to understand. 

The significance of what I have said should be obvious in the following links:
 
http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2000/mar4mor.html

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2000/audio_video.html

Not a hair singed. 

I am just an ignorant old man who realized his egoistic folly in

[FairfieldLife] If you find Shiva lingams interesting..

Jaya Guru Datta
If you find Shiva lingams interesting..

The following links and story relate to the miraculous discovery of this 
hundreds of years 
old  Sachchidanandeshwara Shiva lingam installed at Dattapeetham in Mysore. 
Keep in 
mind while reading that it was underground and its weight beyond any normal 
person's 
capacity to lift. Note the Cobra, which was said to be golden in the original 
story.

Images:
http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2002/march12_evening/
march12_evening.html

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2004/feb18_eve/feb18_eve.html


Subject: Life History of H.H. Sri Swamiji 179

Happily she went into the kitchen and with the assistance of Jayamma prepared a 
meal for 
her brother. Swamiji entered into the kitchen while she was cooking the food 
and enquired 
about the kitchen while she was cooking the food and enquired about the welfare 
of the 
family members. She told him that grandfather Linganna had gone to Ratnapuri 
(Near 
Honasur) to his farmland and started agricultural work again. Savitramma was 
staying with 
him in the village. After the Biksha Swamiji asked Vara to eat at the 
ashrama. By the time 
she finished her meal and went to him. He had organised to get a new saree for 
her. He 
gave her the saree as a present and blessed her. He told her, You should start 
calling me 
Swamiji like all the mothers in here. Like all the mothers here you are also 
one of the 
mothers to me. Crestfallen, Vara went back to her house. Satyanandeshwara Next 
day 
Swamiji sent some of his devotees to Ratnapuri. He wanted them to find out if 
there was 
an old Shiva temple or a Shivalingam, which did not receive any worship by the 
public. 
They came back with the news that there were no such things in that village. 
The rumour 
was that in olden days there was a Shiva temple, which had sunk into the earth 
in course 
of time. I must go there today, Swamiji said. It is not practical. Even if 
we go by a taxi, 
we cannot reach there before the night falls. We cannot do anything in the 
night. Let us go 
tomorrow, suggested some of the elders. Lord Shiva is not keeping quiet. I 
cannot help 
the feeling that I must go immediately, Swamiji told them. They had no option 
but to 
agree. They got a taxi and went to Ratnapuri. They reached the village by 
nighttime. 
Ratnapuri is a small village. When the car arrived throwing red mud on all the 
bypassers, 
about 10 villagers came near the taxi. Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji has 
come from 
Mysore. We believe there is a Shiva Lingam in this village. We have come to 
search for it, 
the passengers in the car told the villagers. The news of the arrival of 
Swamiji spread 
quickly and the villagers soon gathered round the car. Linganna spoke to his 
grandson and 
explained about the purpose of visit by Swamiji to the villagers. In the cold, 
dark evening, 
with the help of hand held torches, Swamiji walked along the fields exploring 
for the site 
of the Shiva Lingam. Within half an hour he stopped at a place and said, Shiva 
is here. We 
must dig this area carefully. That spot was agricultural land belonging to a 
farmer. It had 
some seasonal crops growing in it. The farmer who owned the land suggested to 
wait till 
the harvesting was complete. Swamiji did not agree to that suggestion. The 
devotees who 
had accompanied Swamiji were willing to buy the land from the farmer. The 
villagers 
unanimously agreed that they had no objection in letting Swamiji take the 
Lingam. The 
fact that the Lingam was in their village and was not receiving the traditional 
poojas was 
not going to be auspicious for the villagers. They considered that Swamiji 
would be doing 
them a favour by taking the Lingam away. Having finally agreed to dig in the 
morning, 
Swamiji went to bed. The next morning they did manage to find the Shiva Lingam 
in that 
field. A big Cobra had wound round the Lingam. Despite the attempts by the 
villagers to 
make it move away, it did not budge from the site. The villagers sent for 
Swamiji to come 
and help. Swamiji came to the spot, stood at the top and looked at the cobra. 
The cobra 
unwound itself and hit its head against the Lingam and died on the spot. 
Swamiji arranged 
for the cremation of the snake and went back to the house. The villagers tried 
to unearth 
the lingam but they could not move it even by an inch. They sent for Swamiji 
again. 
Swamiji came and standing at the top of the site cried bitterly. While 
continuing to cry he 
sang the keertana Ishapateesha Jagannivasa He sang that keertana for the 
first time and 
it brought tears to the listeners. He went down and put his arms round it like 
someone 
holding on to a baby and lifted it. It came into his hands like a toy and he 
brought it out 
and placed it in the bullock cart arranged to take it back to the ashrama. All 
the villagers 
and the devotees moved with the cart towards the ashrama shouting the praise, 
Jai

[FairfieldLife] Datta Jayanthi message 2004


Jaya Guru Datta

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/dattajayanti2004/dec24/
dec24_hh_speech.html

SRI SWAMIJI'S DATTA JAYANTI SPEECH ON 24.12.2004 AT 12PM
For many, spiritual interest is the last resort when nothing works out. Though 
it is 
unfortunate, it is true. Imagine this. When a person is dying, we try all 
methods to revive 
his life. We give him oxygen, we give shock treatment to revive his life. Many 
people 
entertain the feeling that going to a temple, God or Sadguru should be  the 
last resort 
when all else have failed. We think that we are too busy for any spiritual 
practices in life. 
Getting spiritual or religious in the last days of your life is of no use. It 
is like pushing a 
dying wick in a oil lamp further to squeeze the last strains of oil left in it. 
It is futile. Many 
feel that they are very good to society and that their ancestors built a 
temple, which will 
help the generations to come. Some also get ego by studying some books. Ego is 
the 
greatest stumbling block., The cause of ego could be education, haughtiness or 
false 
pride. Sadguru never misleads you. HE will only ask you to follow the good 
tenets of life 
like truthfulness, being good to others etc., Apart from this there is one very 
important 
thing. In spite of having everything in life, one occasionally feels empty. 
This empty feeling 
can be quite nagging. It can be psychologically damaging. Unfortunately most 
people have 
one another problem. That is wanting more. If you have money, you want even 
more. If 
you have a contended family, you want even more happiness. Doubts persist about 
Guru, 
Vedanta and spirituality. But you try to display a gait that you do not have 
any doubts. But 
when alone, the mind gets tired by this nagging emptiness. All this emptiness 
is there 
because you have no patience to do any spiritual practice with implicit faith 
and 
truthfulness.

We also are restless. We get restless when there are no spicy news on the TV. 
It is not 
good for health at all. You should not seek horrific news. In Europe, the 
garbage bin is 
quite ornamental and comafoulaged. People are driven to use it. But we have 
over spilling 
garbage bins, spreading the bad odor all around. Who goes  there to use it? 
Nobody! The 
very purpose is lost. Like you clean your teeth everyday, you should also clean 
your shoes, 
the garbage bin etc., Don't you still brush your teeth in the morning after 
eating Tirupati 
Laddus the previous night? Do you fear that the good Blessings it brought to 
you gets 
washed away? No.

Imagine this. You have a cow. You clean the cow everyday. You milk the cow. The 
vessel is 
yours. Don't you wash that vessel everyday? In spite of being the owner of the 
cow, the 
vessel etc., you still wash the vessel just to make sure that the milk does not 
get decayed. 
Like wise, In spite of having your own mind, you should still clean it 
everyday. For such 
activity, you should read Dattatreya story daily. He learnt from all types of 
Gurus. From 
snakes, women, from a bee etc., It is not a story. It is a guide for daily 
life. Because he 
Blessed us with such information, he is Guru for Devathas, for Manavaas. 
Everyday is Datta 
Jayanti. Even after become greatly educated, you must always remember  that 
there is a 
invisible energy that is helping you. We follow Sadguru to help us understand 
that invisible 
energy. One you understand, you will be full of bliss. I am not saying you 
should never get 
doubts. All I am saying is that you should not search for doubts. All it needs 
from you is 
little bit of patience. You would not have got the doubt, if there were no 
answer for it. It 
has come because there is an answer for it. Everything is planned by that 
invisible energy. 
If we acknowledge our existence to that energy humbly and truthfully, you will 
be a 
winner. We all are puppets in the hands of that energy.

You may believe it or not. You may have suspicion or not. But believe me. 
DATTATREYA is 
the GREATEST.

Dattatreya is not a story. Dattatreya is discovering your self. Dattatreya is 
self-surrender. 
Dattatreya is not Panchamrita Abhisheka. We do it to gain concentration. Puja 
is level one. 
It is like the foundation for a house. We do it daily till death to ensure that 
the monkey 
mind does not trouble you.

Look at a horse man in Mysore city. They have a humble and weak horse and take 
people 
in carriages around the city. He has a whip in his right hand, he holds the 
reins in his left 
hand and makes strange grunting noises from the bottom of his stomach. He and 
the 
horse can understand that communication. I want you all to write an essay 
explaining what 
it means. Do it.

Sri Guru Datta

In Datta Seva

Hanuman

 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-
face?
 
It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 1993. 
The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other contact 
with him, but this one lasted the longest.


  *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
  Maharishi's physical presence. 
  
  and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
  when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
  (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment of 
  gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar of 
  resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
 







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[FairfieldLife] Sharanagati

Jaya Guru Datta

From Sadguru Sukti Sangraha of Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji

Sharanagati  (The Path of Surrender)   

Among the four paths for self-perfection and  release from the worldly bondage 
viz. jnana  
yoga, bhakti yoga, karma yoga and prapatti  yoga shown by the  Geetaachaarya, 
prapatti 
orÊ sharanagati i.e. the yoga of surrender is most suited for  the present-day 
man.

The path of surrender does not require an  extremely sharp intellect which is 
needed for 
pursuing the path of  knowledge (jnana yoga). It also does not require the 
supreme love 
for  God which is the essence of the path of devotion (bhakti yoga). It also  
does not 
involve any action to be converted into yoga of action, as  propounded in the 
scriptures. 
Yet, the path of surrender (prapatti)  possesses the main characteristics of 
all the three.

Extreme discrimination is necessary to decide as  to whom to surrender and how 
to 
surrender. Surrender becomes lifeless if  there is diluted love for the 
Supreme. Therefore, 
the element of love is also present in the path of prapatti.  A sharanaagata or 
prapanna 
i.e.,  the one he who has surrendered, is not a log of wood. He discharges all  
his duties Ð 
social, moral and religious, as an instrument of the  Divine.

Surrendering totally oneÕs body, mind and  intellect at the feet of the lord is 
a true 
surrender. In the life of sharanaagata, there has to be no element of ego 
whatsoever. It has  
been rightly said, Ôto approach and enter the door of Divine, one must  become 
nakedÕ i.e. 
stripped of the ego. ÔSarva  dharma paritajya, maamekam saranam vrajah.Ó

In Datta Seva 

Hanuman






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-face?
  
  
   *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
   Maharishi's physical presence. 
   
   and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
   when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
   (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment of 
   gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar of 
   resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
  
 
 
 In his dreams?

Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince 
anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some 
fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would 
understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out 
there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 

It was what it was, and served as a strong catalyst for me. If you 
have any genuine questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any less 
of an enlightened and enlightening experience? This was just that- 
An experience during daily life- the fulfillment of a desire.

So what?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  jim_flanegin writes; snipped
  Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
intellect,  
  and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
master-/
   disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
  transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
  
  Tom T responds:
  This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
  values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
have
  any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder 
on
  that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
  Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
and
  on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
and
  figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
  I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
  enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful because it 
was and
  confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
now
  Not ever. Tom T
 
 
 Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even 
democratically-
 elected / appointed political leaders like I can't explain it 
pretty
 good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it 
so
 I done it, I invaded Iraq revert to the same claim -- just trust 
my
 explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
 never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's 
will',
 'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
 mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 
 
 How to differentiate I wonder?

Intuition, ...plain...and...simple.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

2005-12-14 Thread Bhairitu

What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even a 
few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  I've 
always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
implement one on a web site.

- Bhairitu


Rick Archer wrote:

For some reason the bozos at Yahoo recently switched FFL¹s classification to
the http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/Romance___Relationships/Adult category.
This obligates people to agree to Yahoo¹s Porn conditions before being
admitted to the messages. I also just discovered that FFL no longer comes up
in the results when you search for it or for any of the keywords in its
description in the ³Find a Group² box at http://groups.yahoo.com/. This is
probably true of all groups in the adult category. I would like to submit an
appeal to Yahoo and would like some of you to help me by exploring the Yahoo
Groups category structure and recommending the ideal category for FFL. I
will then begin to pester Yahoo to change our category. I obviously did not
choose the adult category when I started this group. I believe I chose
something in the communities category. I wonder if they switched us because
Tom Pall complained, or whether they automatically detect profanity in posts
and assign groups to the adult category if they find any. Anyway, this
situation handicaps the group and I would like to remedy it. Thanks in
advance for your help.

  




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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even 
a 
 few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  
I've 
 always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
 alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
 implement one on a web site.
 
 - Bhairitu
 
 
Count me in. What is the best email address to send to?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

2005-12-14 Thread bbrigante

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if 
 we're being monitored.  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two 
 weeks of postings.
 
 lurk

**

People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
to read messages because of this group's being put in Yahoo's adult 
section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  
  
  In his dreams?
 
 Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince 
 anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some 
 fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would 
 understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out 
 there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
 meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 

Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, or
ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
those grounds. As in Hamlet, The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains often
come in deams; field of dreams -- create the field and they
(saints) will come; I have a dream -- a desire to be in the presence
of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- in his
imagination -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All together, a
funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.


 To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any less 
 of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 

Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's voice?)

 So what?

So Hum?

By the way, do you have a match sir?











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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   
   
   In his dreams?
  
  Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to 
convince 
  anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was 
some 
  fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
would 
  understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks 
out 
  there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
  meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 
 
 Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
 pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, 
or
 ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
 those grounds. As in Hamlet, The lady doth protest too much, 
methinks.
 
 I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains 
often
 come in deams; field of dreams -- create the field and they
 (saints) will come; I have a dream -- a desire to be in the 
presence
 of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- in his
 imagination -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All 
together, a
 funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.
 
 
  To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any 
less 
  of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 
 
 Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's 
voice?)
 
  So what?
 
 So Hum?
 
 By the way, do you have a match sir?

Akasha, please go practice your cynicism and rationalizations 
elsewhere. Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
youHa Ha





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if 
  we're being monitored.  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two 
  weeks of postings.
  
  lurk
 
 **
 
 People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
 to read messages because of this group's being put in Yahoo's adult 
 section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.


Nope, not true. But one does have to sign in to ANY yahoo user name,
whether its a FFL member or not, to get to the homepage.

I think the adult thing is a general crack down yahoo has consented
to, reachng an agreement after facing serious prosecution from Elliot
Spitzer or some prosecutor of his zeal, stemming from a percieved
environment for potential sexual abuse of minors in yahoo's chat rooms. 

Yahoo has  eliminated all its user-defined chat rooms -- which while
creative in name and content at times, did on face value, look pretty
raunchy -- such as High School Gurls Who Love Older Guys etc.  For
years there was lots of basic sex drugs and rock-in-roll content, and
more importantly to some, the appearance of such, in these totally
uncensored rooms.

And the extra adult screen to get to FFL now talks about options for
concerned parents who want to protect their children. I would guess
that many groups are now adult -- based on yahoo's scan of key
words. They apear to be wanting to err on the side of caution and show
good faith in complying with the spirit of the consent decree. 

 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread MDixon6569







In a message dated 12/14/05 11:00:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
teaching'sextraordinary explanatory 
  value.
  There's a Freudian slip if ever I saw one!

O caught that one also LOL!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   snip

Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
transcending my intellect,  
and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
actions. Like a master-
 disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
ONLY in the 
transcendent. Pure Paradox.
   
   Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
   surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
   there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
   that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
   bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
   absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
  
  And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
  is a subjective feeling. 
 
 A polite way of saying mood making, perhaps? 
 
 And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of ones own 
 projections of how the world (and gurus) should be? I mean 
 if one thinks MMY or whoever is IT, THE ONE, won't the 
 mind almost automatically create a sense of that experience 
 when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
 rare event / (always a) special occasion?

Absolutely. The rarer the event is, the more likely
it is that the expected experience will occur.
 
 Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were around MMY 
 constantly experience him as blazing brahman.

Absolutely not. That's why most of them left. Each
of us is free to decide whether they were right in 
their decision to leave or not.

 Could the need to experience a teacher as blazing brahman justify
 the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at least in part as
 trivial and silly projects of his?

I think so. There is a strong tendency in all humans
to justify what one has dedicated years to. This tendency
often keeps people paying lip service to what they have
dedicated years to *years* past the time when they no
longer feel it deserves their dedication. Most of the
people I've ever met who have walked away from a strong
involvement with a spiritual tradition have said that
they did so several years later than they should have.
The realization that they no longer fit predated 
their ability to accept or act on that realization.

 Someone once said that the grandeur of the described experience
 around the teacher is inversely proportional to ones proximity.

There *is* a proximity factor at work here. The aura 
of a teacher is usually stronger in his/her close
proximity than it is far away. That is, until and
unless one develops an inner connection with the 
teacher that transcends time and space. At that
point, distance no longer matters.

But there are a myriad of energies that swirl around
a strong spiritual teacher. In my opinion, some of
these energies have to do with enlightenment, with
eternity itself. Other of the energies have to do 
with the finite teacher and his or her good points,
and his or her lingering samskaras. One of the things
that tends to happen when one is in close proximity
to a strong teacher is that one is bombarded by both
types of energies, and can have a hard time figuring
out which is which. Thus people sometimes begin to 
mistake the strong energy of the lingering samskaras 
for the strong energy of enlightenment.

Just an opinion, but one based on experience...







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to- face?  It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 1993.  The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other contact  with him, but this one lasted the longest. Were you the person who saw him at the rock concert and everyone was hurling? (seriously-- that was reported here once).





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:55 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince  anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some  fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would  understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out  there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been  meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like.  Were you able to touch him?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

Rick,

Here's an idea:

Create a new group called FairfieldLife2. Use the same home page 
description as on FairfieldLife, except, perhaps, leaving out 
anything that might categorize it as an adult site. Also, add a 
line at the top which states something like - To access 
FairfieldLife, log into any Yahoo account, then go to this url ... 
with maybe a brief explanation of why needed. This way, people just 
doing searches will find FairfieldLife2 and from there, find 
FairfieldLife.

You could put a longer explanation in a post sent to the new group 
and give the post a subject heading inviting and encouraging 
newcomers to read it.

If possible, you could also disallow anyone else posting to the new 
group, so that it doesn't become an unintentional competing mess. 
Maybe also don't allow people to join, because all that you want is 
to point people to the other group. So, like FFL, FFL2 would allow 
non-members to read the home page and browse the archives.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Marek Reavis

Comment/Question below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

**SNIP**
 Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
 youHa Ha

**SNIP TO END**

Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your
interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?

Thanks,
Marek






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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

More thoughts:

If you create a FFL2, you'd probably have to post to it occasionally 
to make sure that it wasn't cancelled by Yahoo, but I think they 
would send the owner or moderator(s) warnings before doing so. You 
may also need to have two or members to stay in business.

Another thought is that you might create a group just for the 
purpose of experimenting with what made Yahoo change the category. 
This would be a group that doesn't allow new memberships. 

Examples of tests:

a) You could put the full FFL description on the home page and wait 
a few days to see what happens. Maybe you would get immediate 
feedback, like when you were not able to save the word bondage in 
the description. 

b) Try uploading the Sexy Sadie files.

If the switch of category of FFL was automated, these kinds of 
tests ought to yield some results. If it was caused by someone's 
complaints, well, that's another matter.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Rick,
 
 Here's an idea:
 
 Create a new group called FairfieldLife2. Use the same home page 
 description as on FairfieldLife, except, perhaps, leaving out 
 anything that might categorize it as an adult site. Also, add a 
 line at the top which states something like - To access 
 FairfieldLife, log into any Yahoo account, then go to this 
url ... 
 with maybe a brief explanation of why needed. This way, people 
just 
 doing searches will find FairfieldLife2 and from there, find 
 FairfieldLife.
 
 You could put a longer explanation in a post sent to the new group 
 and give the post a subject heading inviting and encouraging 
 newcomers to read it.
 
 If possible, you could also disallow anyone else posting to the 
new 
 group, so that it doesn't become an unintentional competing mess. 
 Maybe also don't allow people to join, because all that you want 
is 
 to point people to the other group. So, like FFL, FFL2 would allow 
 non-members to read the home page and browse the archives.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-
  face?
 
  It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 
1993.
  The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other 
contact
  with him, but this one lasted the longest.
 
 Were you the person who saw him at the rock concert and everyone 
was  
 hurling? (seriously-- that was reported here once).

Ha Ha! No, though if that person is reading this, I'd be interested 
in any details...other than about the puking that is










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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:55 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
 
  Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince
  anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some
  fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
would
  understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out
  there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been
  meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like.
 
 Were you able to touch him?

Really good question. Yes, but it was subtle body to subtle body. I 
do recall three things at different times: once, laying my head at 
his feet, looking into his eyes, and holding his hand while we went 
for a walk. I honestly have no explanation for how any of that 
occurs. 

It began slowly with increasing visions of him over about 12 years, 
getting closer, and then one day, he was there with me. It felt like 
such a natural thing to happen, given my heart's desire at the time, 
and I was so overcome with bliss I really didn't think about it at 
all when it occurred, and have just tried to integrate it into my 
life since.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

2005-12-14 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even 
 a 
  few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  
 I've 
  always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
  alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
  implement one on a web site.
  
  - Bhairitu
  
  
 Count me in. What is the best email address to send to?

At the moment, we could find our emails and
identies being recorded on Pornography
databases. It needs sorting.

Emails get ignored. Try regular mail with a 
copy to a significant person. Ask a specific
question and require an answer. It may sound 
stupid, but I can't work out if Yahoo is
basically American or English. I have a feeling
it is English and spread to the States soon enough.
If this is the case, then write to:

Managing Director,
Yahoo! UK Limited,
125 Shaftesbury Avenue,
London. WC2H 8AD.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Comment/Question below:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 **SNIP**
  Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
  youHa Ha
 
 **SNIP TO END**
 
 Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your
 interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
 
 Thanks,
 Marek

Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 

Other than that, I've always detested mood making, and just followed 
the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my desire began to form 
when I read in the Gita about God having a personal form, in order 
for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily on Him.

At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to Maharishi, but just 
couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It always felt dry, 
like trying to fall in love with someone and you just can't. 

But I sure was attracted to that picture of Brahmananda Saraswati- 
his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I just really 
admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true saint, who can live 
in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!

And it just went from there. Probably driven more from a sense of 
humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.

I wrote a very few notes during that time:

January 22, 1993
from communion

Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,

perfect body; to look upon any part of His form instantly leads the 
mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using the sense of 
sight.

perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your perfect dad and best 
friend.

perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the lotus, looking 
out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the universe.

PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from memory. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have received an email relating to a press conference in which MMY 
 allegedly made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving 
 lunatic.
 Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a transcript?

...Britishers..the Raj in India in the 19th Cent.?
...maybe scorpions? I think that this is the notorious
5/11 press conference when Britain was kicked out of 
the movement (possibly to see what happened if the UK was
deprived of its TM activity. So far, so good). But if one 
wants to study the effects of a sudden deprivation, there
needs to be activity before. There wasn't. 

The transcript is on FFL, and will be about two to 
three weeks after May 11th. (Not easy to trace).
Uns.





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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 I've always felt that developing a sense of comfort
 with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is far
 more important to spiritual progress than developing
 a feel (almost always illusory) for one's holiness.

Except for Tom Pall, of course, who is required to
expunge his thoroughly unacceptable assholiness
forthwith and offer abject apologies to those he has
offended, under threat of exposure as an asshole to
his yagya suppliers.

cough






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. And certainly
don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
Amen. 

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip
 
 Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
 transcending my intellect,  
 and leaving me as the innocent witness to
 his
 actions. Like a master-
  disciple relationship only in the
 transcendent;
 ONLY in the 
 transcendent. Pure Paradox.

Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on
 the
surface at all. It's all sentimentality and
 ego up
there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of
 Brahman
that just PULLS you into it and flattens all
 the
bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva
 whirling in
absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
   
   And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
   is a subjective feeling. 
  
  A polite way of saying mood making, perhaps? 
  
  And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of
 ones own 
  projections of how the world (and gurus) should
 be? I mean 
  if one thinks MMY or whoever is IT, THE ONE,
 won't the 
  mind almost automatically create a sense of that
 experience 
  when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
  rare event / (always a) special occasion?
 
 Absolutely. The rarer the event is, the more likely
 it is that the expected experience will occur.
  
  Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were
 around MMY 
  constantly experience him as blazing brahman.
 
 Absolutely not. That's why most of them left. Each
 of us is free to decide whether they were right in 
 their decision to leave or not.
 
  Could the need to experience a teacher as blazing
 brahman justify
  the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at
 least in part as
  trivial and silly projects of his?
 
 I think so. There is a strong tendency in all humans
 to justify what one has dedicated years to. This
 tendency
 often keeps people paying lip service to what they
 have
 dedicated years to *years* past the time when they
 no
 longer feel it deserves their dedication. Most of
 the
 people I've ever met who have walked away from a
 strong
 involvement with a spiritual tradition have said
 that
 they did so several years later than they should
 have.
 The realization that they no longer fit predated 
 their ability to accept or act on that realization.
 
  Someone once said that the grandeur of the
 described experience
  around the teacher is inversely proportional to
 ones proximity.
 
 There *is* a proximity factor at work here. The aura
 
 of a teacher is usually stronger in his/her close
 proximity than it is far away. That is, until and
 unless one develops an inner connection with the 
 teacher that transcends time and space. At that
 point, distance no longer matters.
 
 But there are a myriad of energies that swirl around
 a strong spiritual teacher. In my opinion, some of
 these energies have to do with enlightenment, with
 eternity itself. Other of the energies have to do 
 with the finite teacher and his or her good points,
 and his or her lingering samskaras. One of the
 things
 that tends to happen when one is in close proximity
 to a strong teacher is that one is bombarded by both
 types of energies, and can have a hard time figuring
 out which is which. Thus people sometimes begin to 
 mistake the strong energy of the lingering samskaras
 
 for the strong energy of enlightenment.
 
 Just an opinion, but one based on experience...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Comment/Question below:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 jim_flanegin 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
  **SNIP**
   Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm
 tattling on 
   youHa Ha
  
  **SNIP TO END**
  
  Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any
 details regarding your
  interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
  
  Thanks,
  Marek
 
 Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 
 
 Other than that, I've always detested mood making,
 and just followed 
 the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my
 desire began to form 
 when I read in the Gita about God having a personal
 form, in order 
 for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily
 on Him.
 
 At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to
 Maharishi, but just 
 couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It
 always felt dry, 
 like trying to fall in love with someone and you
 just can't. 
 
 But I sure was attracted to that picture of
 Brahmananda Saraswati- 
 his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I
 just really 
 admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true
 saint, who can live 
 in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!
 
 And it just went from there. Probably driven more
 from a sense of 
 humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.
 
 I wrote a very few notes during that time:
 
 January 22, 1993
 from communion
 
 Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,
 
 perfect body; to look upon any part of His form
 instantly leads the 
 mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using
 the sense of 
 sight.
 
 perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your
 perfect dad and best 
 friend.
 
 perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the
 lotus, looking 
 out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the
 universe.
 
 PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from
 memory.

Very nice experience. I've never felt a strong
connection to him. Different dharmas for different
karmas. 


 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

Because we're an adult newsgroup now, should we
include the word, vagina and nipple in every post
somehow?

--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our
 objections.  Even 
 a 
  few hundred emails from folks here should get the
 point across.  
 I've 
  always considered Yahoo a lame organization with
 lame developers.  I 
  alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have
 to know how to 
  implement one on a web site.
  
  - Bhairitu
  
  
 Count me in. What is the best email address to send
 to?
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)



--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
  I've always felt that developing a sense of
 comfort
  with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is
 far
  more important to spiritual progress than
 developing
  a feel (almost always illusory) for one's
 holiness.
 
 Except for Tom Pall, of course, who is required to
 expunge his thoroughly unacceptable assholiness
 forthwith and offer abject apologies to those he has
 offended, under threat of exposure as an asshole to
 his yagya suppliers.
 
 cough

Body slam, Judy! 4 points!




 
 
 
 
 
 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 
 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   MMY's personality is very much a product of his
  time
   and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
   cosmic. Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
  an
   aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
  Hindu
   man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
  fist
   for the past 50 years.
  
  Boy, I think this is an important point.
  
  Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
  slightly differently and say, This is *how*
  Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
  this particular aging, slightly senile,
  lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
  run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
  for the past 50 years?
 
 Yes, better stated your way.

Dunno about better.  Just another angle, really.

  I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
  *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
  either of these two statements.
  
  But people tend to look at the *expression*,
  find it to be much less than what they think
  of as perfection in a relative sense, and
  on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
  Brahman.
 
 Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
 realized master, good luck! For example in a
 residential Art of Living course I took about a year
 ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
 casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
 ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
 wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
 about the difficulty in walking around and how much
 time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
 another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
 at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
 serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
 Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
 be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
 
  Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
  one's individual take; it's just that the take
  shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
  perceived distance of the expression from what
  they would consider relative perfection.
 
 The first time I saw MMY in 1972 my mind blew wide
 open and left absolutely no doubts about his Realized
 status. And in every ensuing contact with him over the
 years this has happened over and over again with the
 experience getting deeper and deeper everytime.
 
  So what should it be based on??  I assume
  realized people and nonrealized people have
  different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
  consciousness.
 
 Your own direct experience...only!

Well, I've never been in his presence, so if I'm
going to make such a determination, I have to rely
on other means.

  From my unrealized perspective, it's a
  combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
  depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
  consistency of his teaching on the nature and
  mechanics of consciousness (including its
  implementation in the TM technique), as well 
  as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.
 
 Right, you find great value in his teachings.
  
  It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
  no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
  with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
  basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
  higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
  distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).
 
 Ageed!
  
  Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
  close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
  relative perfection, which is what I just said
  you shouldn't do.
 
 I don't think we can ever, to a complete degree, get
 away from this. In fact, it perhaps is a foolish
 spiritual ideal.

Sure.  The question is whether some relative expressions
give one a more accurate idea of the higher reality than
others.  Seems to me his teaching on consciousness is
a more accurate measuring tool in this regard than his
political/social behavior, but I'm having trouble
articulating why this should be the case.

  Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
  evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
  of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
  which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
  evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
  social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
  the TMO.
  
  Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
  expresses against a personal idea of relative 
  perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
  expression over another make a difference?  Or
  are both approaches essentially absurd?
  
  Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
  here...
 
 Yeah, but a good tangent  I think, ultimately, the
 value of a guru/master is in him/her functioning as a
 catalyst for one's own realization. This is
 appreciated by people as their experiences with the
 body of techniques offered, the intellectual

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:


In his dreams?
   
   Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to 
 convince 
   anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was 
 some 
   fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
 would 
   understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks 
 out 
   there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
   meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 
  
  Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
  pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, 
 or
  ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
  those grounds. As in Hamlet, The lady doth protest too much, 
 methinks.
  
  I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains 
 often
  come in deams; field of dreams -- create the field and they
  (saints) will come; I have a dream -- a desire to be in the 
 presence
  of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- in his
  imagination -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All 
 together, a
  funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.
  
  
   To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any 
 less 
   of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 
  
  Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's 
 voice?)
  
   So what?
  
  So Hum?
  
  By the way, do you have a match sir?
 
 Akasha, please go practice your cynicism and rationalizations 
 elsewhere. Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
 youHa Ha

What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In 
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  jim_flanegin writes; snipped
  Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
 intellect,  
  and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
 master-
   disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
  transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
  
  Tom T responds:
  This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
  values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
 have
  any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
  that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
  Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
 and
  on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
 and
  figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
  I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
  enlightenment as delightful confusion. Delightful because it 
was 
 and
  confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
 now
  Not ever. Tom T
 
 Along the lines of 'delightful confusion', the literally funny
 thing is (and I think you've mentioned this before Tom also...), is 
 that whenever the intellect tries to make sense of the paradox that 
 is Brahman, all that results is this little percolation of bliss.

Hey, I've had that experience!

 
 
 Many times a day I will juxtapose two complete opposites in my 
mind, 
 the intellect will try for a resolution, going deeper and deeper, 
 finally give up, bounce into the transcendent, back out again, and 
 I'll break into a smile or small chuckle at this universal infinite 
 joke...








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 14, 2005, at 2:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:
 
  It's odd. If Maharishi's so right-wing how come almost everyone
  connected with him in the West leans so far left? It's a strange  
  thing.
 
 It is.
 
 It's just the paradox of Brahman, so stop worrying. And he just has
 a  funny way of showing his compassion. All is well.
 
 Is there great difference between a Christian fundie school kid 
 who quotes the bible, talks of the Big Bang and tells about Jesus 
 and a MSAE kid who quotes scientific literature, talks about AGNI 
 and unified field theory to sell you his idea from M.?

The second is a lot more sophisticated, interesting,
and intellectually challenging, IMHO.

 Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.

Fundies meditate?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 6:07 PM, authfriend wrote: Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.  Fundies meditate? They pray (presumably).





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India