[FairfieldLife] A message from David Lynch
In today's world of fear and uncertainty, every child should have one class period a day to dive within himself and experience the field of silenceblissthe enormous reservoir of energy and intelligence that is deep within all of us. This is the way to save the coming generation. These words from the great educator and scientist of consciousness, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, simply and beautifully describe the urgent need in education today. I have been diving within through the Transcendental Meditation technique for over 30 years. It has changed my life, my world. I am not alone. Millions of other people of all ages, religions, and walks of life practice the technique and enjoy incredible benefits. Someday, hopefully very soon, diving within as a preparation for learning and as a tool for developing the creative potential of the mind will be a standard part of every school's curriculum. The stresses of today's world are taking an enormous toll on our children right now. There are hundreds of schools, with thousands of students, who are eager to relieve this stress and bring out the full potential of every student by providing this Consciousness-Based education today. Our Foundation was established to ensure that any child in America who wants to learn and practice the Transcendental Meditation program can do so. The TM program is the most thoroughly researched and widely practiced program in the world for developing the full creative potential of the brain and mind, improving health, reducing stress, and improving academic outcomes. We provide scholarships for students to learn the technique and to receive the complete follow-up program of instruction throughout their student years to ensure they receive the maximum benefits. We also provide scholarships for students who want to attend the growing number of highly successful schools, colleges, and universities founded on this Consciousness- Based approach to education. I have had the pleasure of meeting many students who are diving within and experiencing Consciousness-Based education. These students are all unique individuals, very much themselves. They are amazing, self-sufficient, wide-awake, energetic, blissful, creative, powerfully intelligent and peaceful human beings. Meeting these students, for me, was the proof that Consciousness-Based education is a profoundly good thing for our schools and for our world. Research and experience document the profound benefits to society as a whole when our children dive within. Individual peace is the unit of world peace. By offering Consciousness-Based education to the coming generation, we can promote a strong foundation for a healthy, harmonious, and peaceful world. For this, the Foundation also supports the establishment of Universities of World Peace that will train the coming generation in a new profession: that of professional peacemaker. Thank you very much for your interest. And please remember that Consciousness-Based education is not a luxury. For our children who are growing up in a stressful, often frightening, crisis-ridden world, it is a necessity. http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Ite mid,1/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Nov 15, 2007, at 7:41 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
Looks like Lynch saved the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytkfeature=related
ROTFLOL! Yeah, if it weren't for the whacky Urania logo on the
podium?
I think that should be taken as a positive, since Urania is a
goddess
of ancient Greece, whose name means 'heavenly'. That female
goddess
iconography seems like an image that could heal the German soul.
Maharishi is very perceptive perhaps.
I wonder what the etymology of this word is cardemeister?
OffWorld
I think you just mentioned it ('heavenly'). (I don't know
any deeper etymology.) Probably related to Vedic 'varuNa'.
varuNa m. (once in the TA1r. %{varuNa4}) ` Allenveloping Sky 'N.
of an A1ditya (in the Veda commonly the night as Mitra over the
day , but often celebrated separately , whereas Mitra is rarely
invoked alone ; Varun2a is one of the oldest of the Vedic gods , and
is commonly thought to correspond to the $ of the Greeks , although
of a more spiritual conception ; he is often regarded as the supreme
deity , being then styled ` king of the gods ' or ` king of both
gods and men ' or ` king of the universe ' ; no other deity has
such grand attributes and functions assigned to him ; he is
described as fashioning and upholding heaven and earth , as
possessing extraordinary power and wisdom called %{mAyA} , assending
his spies or messengers throughout both worlds , as numbering the
very winkings of men's eyes , as hating falsehood , as seizing
transgressors with his %{pAza} or noose , as inflicting diseases ,
especially dropsy , as pardoning sin , as the guardian of
immortality ; he is also invoked in the Veda together with Indra ,
and in later Vedic literature together with Agni , with Yama , and
with Vishn2u ; in RV. iv , 1 , 2 , he is even called the brother of
Agni ; though not generally regarded in the Veda as a god of the
ocean , yet he is often connected with the waters , especially the
waters of the atmosphere or firmament , and in one place [RV. vii ,
64 , 2] is called with Mitra , %{sindhu-pati} , ` lord of the sea
or of rivers ' ; hence in the later mythology he became a kind of
Neptune , and is there best known in his character of god of the
ocean ; in the MBh. Varun2a is said to be a son of Kardama and
father of Pushkara , and is also variously represented as one of the
Deva-gandharvas , as a Na1ga , as a king of the Nagas , and as an
Asura ; he is the regent of the western quarter [cf. %{loka-pAla}]
and of the Nakshatra S3atabhishaj [VarBr2S.] ; the Jainas consider
Varun2a as a servant of the twentieth Arhat of the present
Avasarpin2i1) RV. c. c. (cf IW. 10 ; 12 c.) ; the ocean
VarBr2S. ; water Katha1s. ; the sun L. ; awarder off or dispeller
Sa1y. on RV. v , 48 , 5 ; N. of a partic. magical formula recited
over weapons R. (v.l. %{varaNa}) ; the tree Crataeva Roxburghii L.
(cf. %{varaNa}) ; pl. (prob.) the gods generally AV. iii , 4 , 6 ; (%
{A}) f. N. of a river MBh.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings Snip Point taken, but Hitler was anything but a blithering idiot, and could talk up a storm and bring the German character to the opposite of what it has the potential to do good for. snip FWIW, in my understanding Hitler started thinking of himself as a Leader only after a famous German(?) astrologer used that word (Führer) in the analysis of Hitler's birth chart. Before that he thought he was John the Baptist, whose task was to find a suitable leader for Germany.
[FairfieldLife] The Keep The New Students Away Phenomenon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Raja-thing, the pinnacle of elitism (thus far) of the TMO, has an element of karmic payback for the elites in the TMO. For decades the TMO elites relished the opportunity to open their checkbook in pursuit of unique 'special status'. Their willingness to buy Enlightenment products that the TMO marketed for every relative aspect of life revealed the deep need of elites for 'specialness' - and came at the expense of the TMO's reputation, because their need for 'specialness' and willingess to fund the TMO through it, negated the TMO's need to relate to the world at large, made the TMO more and more obscure, and virutally irrelevant to the larger world. The TMO is now addicted to million dollar donations for Raja crowns and gowns. MMY probably realized about five years ago how the TMO has been made virtually irrelevant over the past decades of catering to elite's needs for specialness. As a means of payback, the Raja role was created - and the responsibility was given to Rajas to administer the now obscure TMO to the world at large. The uncomfortable crown and robe fiasco for the German Raja in Berlin this week is indicative of what's in store for those who played such a willing hand in making the TMO obscure and virtually irrelevant. The tin ear response to the crowd indicates the depth of obscurity the TMO finds itself. I imagine those robes will be seen as a bit uncom- fortable to wear now. MMY might insist they be worn 24/7 for a while, as a means of making amends for the TMO's sorry state. The idea of payback is an interesting one, but I can't agree with it. I have never seen any indication that Maharishi is aware enough *of* the world to be aware that his movement has retreated further and further from it with every passing year. I see him more a victim of his own ignorance of a phenomenon that is talked about openly in most other spiritual trips I've had exposure to. This phenomenon is referred to by many names, one of them being (surprisingly, even in mainstream Tibetan orgs I've encountered) the We've got ours, fuck any- one else syndrome. The essence of it is, as you said so well above, the desire for specialness on the part of spiritual seekers. When they *first* got involved in a new and exciting spiritual trip, they felt special by devoting themselves to evangelism -- spreading the word, and trying to bring in new members. HOWEVER, after a few years of this, they started to notice that as the move- ment grew, they tended to get lost in the crowd, and their chances for specialness with regard to the teacher became lessened. The new students -- some of them brighter or, in the TM movement, richer -- got more attention than they did. So what do these seekers-in-search-of-specialness DO? Simple. They start to sabotage the efforts to recruit new students. This is sometimes done by pretending to be too busy to give lectures and put up posters and teach any more. Then it tends to become manifest by offering feedback to the teacher that *reinforces* the feeling of them vs. us that they thrive on. They LIKE them vs. us, because they're the us. And they want to *stay* the us, right there at the center of things, close to the teacher. And they want potential new students to stay away, because they're them. And so they applaud every plan the teacher comes up with that would make their spiritual path *less* inter- esting to new students, and pooh-pooh any plan that might work to bring in new students. And over time, the move- ment stops growing, and starts shrinking instead. And the special students, the us in this scenario, LIKE this. The fewer people there are around the teacher, the easier it is to get the teacher's attention. And if you're a bhakti/darshan junkie, that's your dream world. The students who feed on being close to the teacher and having his/her attention focused on them would like nothing *better* than for the movement they are part of to shrink to the point where they are the only ones left. As I said, this phenomenon is talked about -- and fought against -- in many other spiritual traditions. Teachers in those traditions are very aware of it, and if they are happening and free of ego that could be pandered to by adoring bhakti-junkies, they do their best to stop this phenomenon as soon as it appears. For example, the moment that students start talking about doing less teaching, the wise teachers make them go out and do *more* teaching instead. The moment that the students start talking about building an ashram where they can get *away* from the world, the wise teachers come up with exercises that force them to go out *into* the world, and interact with it strongly. My feeling is that Maharishi is not aware of this phenomenon. He never studied how to be a spiritual teacher; his only exposure to how to teach successfully was watching
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Money Party - Big Lies that You Must Believe
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Now, if I could only get you to see that predation in bars is but one way that the masses practice being deviant... . . . It's about men. When one man sees another man walk into a room with a cool babe, there may be some envy, but mostly it's the other guys being on the same team and saying go, go, go, make that touchdown. This is that hitting it attitude in male mob psychology. . . . Next time I come into the bar, I'll be bringing this new babe, Iran, and you just know she won't be wearing any burka after I've bedded that bitch. . . . Crass, lurid, obscene, horrid projection by Edg? Or truth? Since you asked... It's more like frenetic, manic rambling that appears to have little if anything to do with the subject - and that seems to characterizes most of your posts. Bingo. I'm thinkin' marijuana. It has that effect of pumpin' up ego and making whatever you say seem important and well written, even when it's not. And more often than not lately, whatever the spring- board topic he's replying to was, the rambling reply is about the thing that seems to threaten him the most -- other men, especially men who can still get it up. If Edg wants to experiment with drugs, I personally think he'd do better with Cialis or Viagra. I'm just sayin'. I think he owes yourself a real rock-hard boner, so he can get over being so jealous of guys who still have them. Besides, it's difficult to strut around posturing as the guardian of all that is moral and right and talking about dragging sinners into morality court when you're sportin' a big hardon. It's the right chemical solution, man. One little pill and he'll feel a lot better, and so will we, because we'll have to hit Next less often 2-3 sentences into his posts.
[FairfieldLife] Mystery
On another forum, someone posted a recent interview with Bruce Cockburn, one of my favorite writers. In the interview, he dropped a one-liner that just knocked my socks off. It's one of the most honest self-assessments by an artist of his own work that I've ever encountered. The interviewer asked him whether a set of lines in one of his songs called Mystery (Stood before the shaman / I saw star strewn space / Behind the eye holes in his face) were based on a drug experience. Bruce said no, that he hadn't done any drugs for over a decade when the event he described in this song happened. It just happened anyway. He was talking with a Native American shaman in a living room in Toronto, and suddenly I'm looking in his face and I had that experience of where his eyes were windows into space and it freaked me right out and I didn't say anything, but he saw me react or something. He saw a look come over my face I guess, and he ... smiled a knowing smile and that was the extent of it, but it was shocking. I had to assume it was something real because I wasn't stoned. And then he says the thing I liked so much: I don't make any of this shit up. People think it's imagination, but it's not. I don't have any imagination, I just report. That's really it, the thing that distinguishes Bruce Cockburn's work and makes it so different from the work of many other artists. Standing on a bridge, watching it flow over the river. Standing on another bridge, reacting to some guy's whispered, I give you ride. Don't you want to kiss me? Wearing a leather jacket shiver- ing with a friend in a theater while the eye of God blazes at them like the sun. Sitting in a bar in Kathmandu, drinking millet wine and listening to a hint of chanted prayer on the fresh night wind, but really missing someone's touch...and finding it, across space and time. Bruce doesn't make any of this shit up. It all really happens, and his art is all about just reporting on it. That's how he sees what he does. And that's just so cool, from my point of view. It's the artform of the enlightened, in a way. There is no *need* for imagination when your world is a constantly-unfolding mystery, opening from wonder into wonder. Bruce has cool experiences in the real world. There is no need to imagine better experiences in some fictional world. All he has to do is live his life, pay attention, and write about the things he sees and feels and experiences, in his own inimitable way. The man's a mystic, and throughout the centuries mystics have never *had* to imagine the tales they tell; they just report on what happens.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: You don't know much about your own history do you? You really Unfortunately for you that translates into a country that has a poor understanding of how the world works. That is why you are stuck in quagmire in Iraq Funny I thought the UK was one of our only partners in this foolish war. That again shows your inferior american worldview. I said you americans are stuckj in a quagmire. The British are there, but they are not stuck in quagmire. You are stuck. You literally cannot leave, but you cannot see that...because you are american. The Brits will be out soon, you will be stuck thers. Doing the dirty work for the British, the U.S. agreed that the Brits' participation in Bush 43's Iraq war would be limited to the southern third of Iraq, the Basra region, which has copious producing oilfields at established shipping facilities on the Gulf of Hormuz. Leaving the more difficult two-thirds of Iraq as the U.S.'s headache is evidence enough of the British role in this Iraq war. Someone once said that war is nothing more than highly organized theft. Britain's comparatively easy role in the war is evidence that it is the lead thief in this war. Here is a clue, there is more than one political party or POV in America. -- all for your american love of the born-again christians that are SO strong in your country...and you don't even question wether that has something to do with the american character. Religion is not unique to our country. But I agree that there are more enlightened Atheists in Europe. I am against the strong religious bias of many Americans. ...and you don't even question wether that has something to do with the american character. Glad that your country stopped its long history of colonial oppression of the world dude. Watch the recent movie Bury my heart at wounded knee. The reason the native americans went to Canada was to escape American oppression. And Black Elk, the famous Shaman of the Lakota tribe, called the Queen Victoria Grandmother because of British attempts to protect the indians, and British laws to protect them in Canada. When your own war of independence broke out thousands upon thousands of indians (and Americans, and American slaves) immediately moved to Canada because they wanted protection by the British because they knew the British protected them, whereas the Americans were despotic. When your pilgrims (called puritan fundamentalists by the British) came to America, they came to escape having to treat everyone as equal, when they wanted to outcast, or even kill, anyone who was not a convert to them. Queen Elizabeth of the time was strictly against such despotic regimes (that is why Elizabeth at first, and the British spent centuries fighting and winning against the Papist regimes of France and Spain) OffWorld You are also by far the largest polluters per capita than any other country. Against pollution too? Oh my God, you are truly a saint among men. No one in America knows anything about such subtle wisdom. Yes, I am sure you are proud of it all. However, Doug Henning was Canadian. Tough luck. Now let's name some GOOD things about america: Bob Dylan Vermont We actually have a few more cool states and musicians. But at least you have become human to me here. and OffWorld Glad you found a place in our diverse country. Good luck.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit (Vedic) 101: sat and asat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The notion that different languages constrain our thinking in different ways is the central tenet of the Sapir Whorff Hypothesis, and true so far as it goes. But it certainly is not an absolute truth. For one thing, languages change especially as a result of folks inventing new ways to think and do things. And then, if Chomsky's and the Vedic views of language are correct (and I think they are), then the deeper you go, the less constraint there is from all things, including language. a cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I hope you guys don't mind my interjecting a couple of thoughts here. Sapir Whorf doesn't address the emotional reaction we often have on hearing the sound of another language. We find French charming, Dutch funny, and German harsh, for example. Instead, the claim is that different languages constrain our thinking in various ways. Yeah, I know that. That's why my emotional level was emphasized. Should have been more explicit about that. Just curious, how does this song in Finnish sound to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eID6o-qbK4feature=related I was quite surprised that the people commenting on it mostly seem to like the way it sounds, although they don't understand a word. I guess most of them are big fans of the band HIM (His Infernal Majesty) and Mr. Ville Valo (William Light, i.e. not Darkness). The last line goes like this: Kohdusta hautaan ui uuttera lautta, tuhannen kapakan kautta. (From the womb to the tomb swims the Diligent Raft, through thousands of beer joints.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
Off better learn pretty skippy that these stars and stripes don't run and if he dont luv her then we'll nuke 'em. Them English all sissy pants anyway. Ever hear how they talk over there with thar pinky in the air sippin' tea at 4:00 oclock. Damn sissy men if ya ask me. Watch it Off, cause we got boys watchin' you! By the way, Dick Cheney, glorious dark commander of freedom on the march, says hello. --- curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny I thought the UK was one of our only partners in this foolish war. That again shows your inferior american worldview. I said you americans are stuckj in a quagmire. The British are there, but they are not stuck in quagmire. You are stuck. You literally cannot leave, but you cannot see that...because you are american. The Brits will be out soon, you will be stuck thers. You may have me here. This was a dumbass war by our dumbass president. I was always against it. Here is a clue, there is more than one political party or POV in America. -- all for your american love of the born-again christians that are SO strong in your country...and you don't even question wether that has something to do with the american character. Religion is not unique to our country. But I agree that there are more enlightened Atheists in Europe. I am against the strong religious bias of many Americans. ...and you don't even question wether that has something to do with the american character. Glad that your country stopped its long history of colonial oppression of the world dude. Watch the recent movie Bury my heart at wounded knee. I read the book when I was in eighth grade. Some Americans have more awareness of our flaws then you realize. The reason the native americans went to Canada was to escape American oppression. And Black Elk, the famous Shaman of the Lakota tribe, called the Queen Victoria Grandmother because of British attempts to protect the indians, and British laws to protect them in Canada. When your own war of independence broke out thousands upon thousands of indians (and Americans, and American slaves) immediately moved to Canada because they wanted protection by the British because they knew the British protected them, whereas the Americans were despotic. Conquered people get screwed. Right. Now they have casinos. When your pilgrims (called puritan fundamentalists by the British) came to America, they came to escape having to treat everyone as equal, when they wanted to outcast, or even kill, anyone who was not a convert to them. Queen Elizabeth of the time was strictly against such despotic regimes (that is why Elizabeth at first, and the British spent centuries fighting and winning against the Papist regimes of France and Spain) I don't doubt that. It was a fraction of the people in my great country. OffWorld You are also by far the largest polluters per capita than any other country. Against pollution too? Oh my God, you are truly a saint among men. No one in America knows anything about such subtle wisdom. Yes, I am sure you are proud of it all. However, Doug Henning was Canadian. Tough luck. Now let's name some GOOD things about america: Bob Dylan Vermont We actually have a few more cool states and musicians. But at least you have become human to me here. and OffWorld Glad you found a place in our diverse country. Good luck. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess Id have to say that Edg has a point when he says Its all about men. In China, 40 million men will never find a wife, and the Chinese government, in an effort to find ways to deal with all that unemployed testosterone, considered starting a few little border wars here and there because there is, in fact, a connection between testosterone and aggression. It seems the height of irony to deal with Edgs statement by suggesting that he needs to take Viagra. It is a mans world, and doesnt it seem somewhat out of balance in the direction of testosterone as we stand on the brink of a world war to make the last two look puny? curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Poverty on Reservations - today's news http://youtube.com/watch?v=dq0Joi1ELps OffWorld Algezerra! Nice one. You name me one place on this globe where hunter gatherers fair well without adapting. And you blame the US for this? Where are the Uk's indigenous people dude? Dead and buried. So now you can be sanctimonious about how we treated people that every other country killed off. BTW it was the Brits who gave the Indians smallpox infected blankets or did you forget that charming detail about British history? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
Papist despots.) Then you JOINED the most oppressive regime, the French, and that is when your little 'war of independence' (our 'skirmish in the provinces') turned against the British when the French joined in, so the British went off and defeated the French Catholic despots, who if the British had not defeated, YOU CURTIS, would be speaking French and living in a mono-religious regime run by the Pope. My name is proudly Mailloux. I am a quarter French, a quarter Irish and half British. I do speak French. Even France is no longer mono-religious now. France is no longer mono -theistic despot along with Spain because Queen Elizabeth 1 stood up to the Pope, stopped the fundamentalists from trying to push everyone around in England, and the British beat the Freanch and Spanish century after century (without American help - Americans joined papists) to usher in the age of reason (largely founded by Sir Francis Bacon during Elizabehts reign. Bacon was called 'the father of science' and Thomas Jefferson and several other of your founders idolized him) I appreciate your interest in history but resent your personalization of counties onto people, namely me. I live in an immigrant community and know quite a bit about our world and its history. I lived in Europe for a year. Long enough not to try to pin the history of a person's country onto them. You are practicing bar room pugnaciousness on a person who you would never talk to this way in person. Then why did you start this fight by saying you are proud of all the despotic and viscious oppression your country has been so good at, since the Pilgrims killing indians, and the Indians, civilized Americans, and the black slaves all running to Canada for British protection. And now the corporate oppression of the world through your control of the WTO. One good thing. GW Bush. He has destroyed your power, and now you are to be assimilated and stop acting like renegade bully schoolboys. Dude, its all in jest. This is just a game...relax. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off better learn pretty skippy that these stars and stripes don't run and if he dont luv her then we'll nuke 'em. Them English all sissy pants anyway. Uh, yea. We have more sophisticated, faster, more accurate nukes than you do. Ever hear how they talk over there with thar pinky in the air sippin' tea at 4:00 oclock. Damn sissy men if ya ask me. True but I'm Scottish, and we wear skirts...so watch out big boy . Watch it Off, cause we got boys watchin' you! By the way, Dick Cheney, glorious dark commander of freedom on the march, says hello. I heard he was dead. It is just a reconstituted cadaver. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. I totally agree with you and I think that is the most important statement said here in 48 hours at least. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ramana teaches how to meditate (Chopra's Intent blog)
tertonzeno wrote: This is only true (no object sought, thus one gets straight to the Self) of more advanced persons. The vast majority will undoubtedly experience nothing but ordinary mental chatter, then become discouraged. TM cuts directly through the chatter. In any event, Self-Inquiry must absolutely be practiced in conjunction with the Holy Three: 1. Ramana, 2. Arunachala, and 3. Arunachala Shiva. If not, one will be berift of the Shakti necessary to transcend. In TM, the Shakti is in the mantra. In Self-Inquirty, it's only latent in the practitioner until ignited by the Fire of Arunachala Shiva. (this form of Shiva embodies the Fire element, thus Diwali celebrants light a gigantic fire on top of Arunachala Hill in Nov.). Tertonzeno, I quote your words, cuz they should be read several times -- it's a pretty dense statement. Poetry. Thanks for that view. Though I think that Ramana and Nisargadatta's presentation of Advaita is A PERFECT dogma, I am not a devotee of Ramana or Nisargadatta, and, thus, to me, the religious aspects of their separate organizations, seems to be out of harmony with my merely intellectual understanding of the ultimate Advaitic statements. That's just me, and I wish I wasn't quite so wary of the faith based aspects of those organizations. There are folks doing pujas DAILY to them all around the world, but I no longer resonate with this kind of worship -- though I agree it is a legitimate and powerful spiritual program. I also think doing a daily TM puja to Guru Dev would be a profound program, but I don't do that either. Heck, I would even do the TM puja to Ramana or Nisargadatta and feel like I wasn't being a heretic. So, get it? I'm not anti-religious -- just burnt out and beaten and not really qualified to join any community nowadays. I don't even belong here at FFL -- except that, you know, someone has to support the Great Cause of Judy. (Hey, that'd be GC Judy -- h, it has a familiar ring to it.) Thus, I do not immediately, by faith, find it in me to validate the concepts of transmitted Shakti, and, sorry, but I do think that Self Inquiry is possible for most folks even though they would not recognize their SELF in a police line-up. It works for everyone, but most are not subtle enough to know it. So, you're right that Self Inquiry is not for the common person who needs far more than merely a good technique to evolve. Your thoughts skirt about a dynamic that I think is, if anything, the most important part of your post: the need for roots if one is going to be successful in any spiritual practice. I mean, who out there is still using Benson's one as a mantra? Benson's no guru, has no ancient tradition, and his Ivory Tower credentials just are not the strong coattails a newbie needs to regularly use a meditation technique. In short, even if one is a perfectly wonderful sound to meditate with, who's going to use it enough years when we all know that the results of any technique are extraordinarily subtle and almost impossible to grasp cognitively? One needs a guru or dogma to explain to the newbies what's happening as evolution progresses. So, yeah, if I were doing Self Inquiry in Ramana's ashram, in that supportive atmosphere, with so many true believers, I would be far more dedicated to the technique and living a simple lifestyle to boot in an uplifting community. Self Inquiry would be far more powerful there than in my livingroom -- no question about that. If the TM mantras have their own on board Shakti, well, this was never spelled out to me by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and I had Maharishi literally answering questions from large groups for over 2,000 hours of live and in person. How'd I miss that concept? If he talked about it, it must have gone right over my head. Thus, I cannot immediately resonate with the concept, and I'm probably not enough of a scholar to research this concept until I can intellectually harmonize with it. I could just believe it, but, you see, I'm very exhausted from being a believer for three decades and then watching my life dissolve before my eyes even though I had made a good run at being a yogi. I was in this deal for improvements in my personality -- and to hell with Godot sez me now. I do not think anyone can convince me at this point in my life to jump into a religious scenario and start doing faith again. So, I think I agree with you, and I'm just guessing, but I think I agree that TM would be a better practice than Self Inquiry for most folks -- except that the Raja-thingy pretty much ruins mood-making that one is involved with an ancient tradition of merit, so what newbie will continue to meditate? But, having 29 years of four hours a day of TM probably got me to a place where I can do Self Inquiry. I do feel the vastness when that silence answers my query, Who am I? Silence that is so precious that I disappears just so's I doesn't take up any space that the silence could better fill.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
On Nov 16, 2007, at 11:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Lurk: Okay, this is good. I haven't looked ahead. Off is getting close to his signature, I AM TOM BARLOW FROM VERMONT. PUT UP YOUR DUKES. Oh yea, I forgot, then comes RICK BAN HIM, BAN HIM FOR LIFE. BAN HIM RICK. BBAANNN . I've never said that to anyone you raving drunk. LOL...this is easily the best wake-up I've seen here in months. Not sure who's ahead at this point, but it sure is entertaining. Go, Lurk and Off! :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Glad that your country stopped its long history of colonial oppression of the world dude. Watch the recent movie Bury my heart at wounded knee. I read the book when I was in eighth grade. Some Americans have more awareness of our flaws then you realize. I read it at about 17. However, I remember why the Indians went to Canada (for British protection), whereas you conveniently (as americans do)...do not remember that part. Canada because they wanted protection by the British because they knew the British protected them, whereas the Americans were despotic. Conquered people get screwed. Right. Now they have casinos. You obviously have never seen (as I have ) the abject poverty on the largest reservation in the world - the Navajo reservation. Something that would be an absolute outrage in Europe. We have poverty, but not like you americans do in your reservations and ghettos. such despotic regimes (that is why Elizabeth at first, and the British spent centuries fighting and winning against the Papist regimes of France and Spain) I don't doubt that. It was a fraction of the people in my great country Which was founded by a traitorous insurgency against the British who protected you from the Catholic despots of France and Spain and whose soldiers died by the hundreds of thousands to protect you from these viscious religious fanatic regimes ( and your traitorous founders refused to help out in that by paying taxes and helping against the Papist despots.) Then you JOINED the most oppressive regime, the French, and that is when your little 'war of independence' (our 'skirmish in the provinces') turned against the British when the French joined in, so the British went off and defeated the French Catholic despots, who if the British had not defeated, YOU CURTIS, would be speaking French and living in a mono-religious regime run by the Pope. OffWorld Uh, I think you've got your history a little bass-ackwards, OffWorld. The British defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham in what is now Quebec City in 1759. The U.S. War of Independence ended in 1776, 17 years later. Idiot ! ! ! The British won a DIFFERENT war against the French in the 1780's (the one you joined the despotic papists in your land grabbing spree, and YOU helped them start and wage that war against the British) You are complete idiots in America. You do not even realise that the British were busy fighting the French and the Dutch and the Spanish during your pathetic little war of independence in whcih you sided with the despotic regimes. THEN the British beat the Dictator Napolean at the Battle of Waterloo about 20 years later, then again at some other point. It was just a constant stream of the British beating the despotic regimes from Queen Elizabeth I onwards. And America never did a thing of use until we used for for canon fodder at the end of WWII. Indeed, the British so angered the American British by abandoning English Common Law in Quebec You mean they decided to let the French live in the cultural manner to which they were accustomed. Yet you call them oppressors. The reason the Iroquois Nations sided with the British for so many decades, and even up to your independence, is because of the despotism against them, by the French and the Americans OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. Possibly, but I still think that we could reduce the number of wars on the planet with just one law: Mandate that any man in a position of national or international power over the age of 50 has to take Viagra on a daily basis. I'm actually serious, and I'm far from the first person to suggest it. See the art cover designed by Minsky for Dr. Helen Caldicott's book Missile Envy. It pretty much tells the whole story of the arms race: http://www.minsky.com/15.htm Most of the wars in history have been started by old men and fought by the young men they sent off to die. Many psychiatrists and philosophers have had a field day with this, suggesting that what is really going on is that these old men, pissed off tha* they *are* old and that the young men are gettin' all the action and that they couldn't get it up any more even if they *were* gettin' some action, would rather that the young men were dead. So they start wars to arrange this. The answer? Make all these old men take Viagra. If they have wives, further mandate that they have to screw them regularly. If they're bachelors, hire them some hookers. Then they wouldn't be so pissed off at the world and ready to pontificate from on high about all of its supposed evils and start wars to correct them. Ok, this is sorta for a laugh, but at the same time it would probably *work*, because most of the men in power on this planet ARE limp-dicked old men who sublimate their lost sexuality by swingin' their limp dicks at neighboring nations and starting wars. Say what you will about it, Viagra works, and my bet is if these limp-dicked old men got to feel what a real hardon was like again, they'd be more interested in gettin' it on in the bedroom than in gettin' it on in the battlefield. Can't you see the bumper stickers now? Little blue pills for peace. You could even stamp the peace sign on each tablet. Just my two centimes. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. In China, 40 million men will never find a wife, and the Chinese government, in an effort to find ways to deal with all that unemployed testosterone, considered starting a few little border wars here and there because there is, in fact, a connection between testosterone and aggression. It seems the height of irony to deal with Edg's statement by suggesting that he needs to take Viagra. It is a man's world, and doesn't it seem somewhat out of balance in the direction of testosterone as we stand on the brink of a world war to make the last two look puny? Dreadfully argued. But then, I imagine in the absence of reason and accountability, it does look like a man's world.
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. This reminds me of when guys see two women fighting and exclaim, catfight! I don't know any women who would like being called a stupid American, do you? In pissing contest you have to be aiming in the same direction or you hit each other. This was more like standing next to someone in front of a urinal and asking someone to stop spraying my shoes. Off was trying to make me a focus for his anger at the country he lives in without respecting me as a person. I don't enjoy being objectified any more than woman would on being called a dumb blond. So no, this is not all about men. It is about humans communicating as humans instead of symbols for things that piss you off and talking past each other. Summing up a person's cognitive skills because of their country of birth or hair color represents the kind of simplistic thinking that both women and men resent. In China, 40 million men will never find a wife, and the Chinese government, in an effort to find ways to deal with all that unemployed testosterone, considered starting a few little border wars here and there because there is, in fact, a connection between testosterone and aggression. It seems the height of irony to deal with Edg's statement by suggesting that he needs to take Viagra. It is a man's world, and doesn't it seem somewhat out of balance in the direction of testosterone as we stand on the brink of a world war to make the last two look puny? curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Poverty on Reservations - today's news http://youtube.com/watch?v=dq0Joi1ELps OffWorld Algezerra! Nice one. You name me one place on this globe where hunter gatherers fair well without adapting. And you blame the US for this? Where are the Uk's indigenous people dude? Dead and buried. So now you can be sanctimonious about how we treated people that every other country killed off. BTW it was the Brits who gave the Indians smallpox infected blankets or did you forget that charming detail about British history? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:07 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch Lecture in Berlin-Lynch saves the day On Nov 16, 2007, at 11:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: LOL...this is easily the best wake-up I've seen here in months. Not sure who's ahead at this point, but it sure is entertaining. Go, Lurk and Off! :) I was away most of yesterday and didn’t notice until late last night that Off World was up to 44 posts. This may be opening up a can of worms, but I wonder if we should have a policy where I grant a “special dispensation” of extra posts if a particularly lively conversation is taking place between two people, as long as it’s substantive and not just a flame war. Barry and Judy would not be eligible. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. This reminds me of when guys see two women fighting and exclaim, catfight! I don't know any women who would like being called a stupid American, do you? In pissing contest you have to be aiming in the same direction or you hit each other. This was more like standing next to someone in front of a urinal and asking someone to stop spraying my shoes. Off was trying to make me a focus for his anger at the country he lives in Anger? Lol, you're an idiot. I was not angry, just having fun giving dumb Americans a history lesson. It was fun for me, but as the loser in the history lesson you are obviously a sore loser, and have to call the winner of the history contest angry. I was not angry for one second. Put that in your head and hold it for one year, maybe something will sink in and you might learn something from this history lesson at least. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT YET .I don't live in this countryI OWN IT. Now get out of our way. We are Borg...Resistance is futile. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was away most of yesterday and didn't notice until late last night that Off World was up to 44 posts. This may be opening up a can of worms, but I wonder if we should have a policy where I grant a special dispensation of extra posts if a particularly lively conversation is taking place between two people, as long as it's substantive and not just a flame war. Barry and Judy would not be eligible. I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Go over the limit an you are instantly banned for the duration of the week AND the following week. Do it twice and its TWO weeks, and ratchet it up for additional infractions, etc. The extra 15 posts a week would give people breathing room -- the ideas is don't even come close to the limit if you are a lazy or imprecise counter. And to encourage rehabilitation, if a person is in the 2-3+ week ban category, they can have their ratchet amount eliminated if they stay unbanned for three months. But they need to apply for such a waiver, requesting it of you and the group. People, particularly here, do not change behavior unless there are consequences. Make the consequences clear, immediate and significant, and the overposting problem will vanish overnight.
[FairfieldLife] Hindu Temple in Atlanta - Video
HYPERLINK http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.cn nhttp://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.c nn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
RE: [FairfieldLife] Solution to Overposting
I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. You’re right. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Go over the limit an you are instantly banned for the duration of the week AND the following week. Do it twice and its TWO weeks, and ratchet it up for additional infractions, etc. The extra 15 posts a week would give people breathing room -- the ideas is don't even come close to the limit if you are a lazy or imprecise counter. What do ya’ll think? Are 35 posts too few? There are a few people who post quality stuff who always seem to run out. And to encourage rehabilitation, if a person is in the 2-3+ week ban category, they can have their ratchet amount eliminated if they stay unbanned for three months. But they need to apply for such a waiver, requesting it of you and the group. Now it’s getting complicated. Gotta keep it simple if you want me to administer it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: the amazing theater in Berlin
[Angela wrote:] You are also right about Wagner's music, but his librettos are fascist propaganda. I can tell the difference between divine music and shitty literature. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if you've ever read a Wagner libretto. You are right that they are not poetry of the highest quality, but completely wrong when you call them fascist propaganda. Quite the opposite. The Ring of the Nibelung is about the triumph of unconditional love over the unscrupulous, ruthless use of political and economic power. It is, if anything, anti-Fascist propaganda. In the last opera in the Ring, Goetterdaemmerung, or The Twilight of the Gods, the Hitlerian prototypes--the gods of Valhalla and the Superman Siegfried--meet with utter destruction. Tristan and Isolde is about transcendental, eternal love. Parsifal is a Christian myth of redemption. The Flying Dutchman, Lohengrin, and Tannhauser have no significant political content. I'm also a Wagner fan, and this is absolutely correct. The idea that the librettos are fascist propaganda is profoundly ignorant. Wikipedia has an excellent, thoroughly documented article on Wagner and Nazism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies There's also a devastating critique on Amazon of a book claiming that Hitler got his ideas from Wagner: http://tinyurl.com/25wc7v [Angela wrote:] No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. History is a story that's not told by monotopical idiots (right Turquoise?), unless they're paid textbook writers. So in a situation like that, in which vastly different people tell vastly different stories about an enormous evil that humanity has just been through, and you think there is only one way to tell that story? That's what textbooks would have you believe, which is why they're so f--ing boring. Are you telling me (like a true fascist) that your way of seeing history is the only way? Well, actually, no, he's not, Angela. Here's what he was telling you: I don't know anyone else who would seriously argue for any similarities between the TMO and the Nazis. Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
You are right, Deltablues, no one likes to be called a dumb American. But we are dumb in lots of typically American ways, just as the Brits are dumb in typically British ways. It is for this reason that Isaiah says in the Old Testament that it is the escapees of the nations of earth who are the best teachers. There should be some way of pointing out one anothers blind spots without being as rude as Off World undoubtedly was, or taking offence as you undoubtedly did. Pride and shame make us equally blind and equally incapable of learning. But there is something else Id like you to consider. I was dead serious when I said that Marshys prolly rolling with laughter on the ground with us over that amazing piece of theater we just saw in Berlin. Nazi Germany was hell on earth, and we shall see it again soon, and, more than likely, the war that fascism always brings will come to American soil. Afterwards, there will be the phoenix rising that I saw as a child in post war Germany. It was heaven on earth for a few years. It is not hard to see this pattern. And the next world war will make the last two look puny, so the phoenix rising might be around for a thousand years. It does not take a Maharishi to see that this is whats going down. And this is the context for the play we just saw staged in Berlin. In my opinion, it was brilliant visionary theater on a world stage at a particular moment in history. How conscious were Marhy and Lynch, individually and together, in that collaboration? In the experience of generations of literary critics, it is always a big mistake to assume the artist was not conscious of what he was doing and conscious of the effect he was creating in people. With live theater, there is some question about how much was plan and how much was Nature support, but the difference between them is highly debatable in any case. Do we know for a fact that audience response was entirely spontaneous? Could there have been plants? M (that was my cat, Greymir, on the keyboard, not me) We cannot accuse Marshy of being stupid about marketing (Ill get back to the asinine beekeepers outfits). His schools may or may not be successful, but hes got the land and the buildings, which, as the Vatican knows very well, you need if you want to survive more than a generation or two. Could it be that Marshy knows how ridiculous the raja costumes are? It is virtually certain that Lynch knows it. I think Marshy does too, so what is his point? Merely that negative attention is better than no attention? He could get negative attention in any number of ways, but he chose the rajassymbols, if nothing else, of the divine right of kings, and, with it, the purportedly natural law of the caste system. The rajas do like old men playing at being Cinderellas princesthat is what they look like now. What might they look like after the earth lies in ruins? Or after the one-world government James Paul Warburg promised us in 1950 has established an iron global dictatorship complete with microchips and a holographic Jesus type comes out of the clouds courtesy of Hollywood? The connection between German style fascism and the TMO is profound, and it is stupid, in my opinion, not to investigate this connection in order to understand it at some depth and across several dimensions if we really want to understand Marshys greatness, which, like Vaj, I am affirming. The TMO shies away from the comparison because Nazi Germany has become the symbol of ultimate evil, and they dont want it associated with their leader about whom Mother Divine is singing a truly insipid little tune: Maharishis briheeheenging heaven on earth. But are heaven and hell not deeply and intimately connected? curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. This reminds me of when guys see two women fighting and exclaim, catfight! I don't know any women who would like being called a stupid American, do you? In pissing contest you have to be aiming in the same direction or you hit each other. This was more like standing next to someone in front of a urinal and asking someone to stop spraying my shoes. Off was trying to make me a focus for his anger at the country he lives in without respecting me as a person. I don't enjoy being objectified any more than woman would on being called a dumb blond. So no, this is not all about men. It is about humans communicating as humans instead of symbols for things that piss you off and talking past each other. Summing up a person's cognitive skills because of their
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Go over the limit an you are instantly banned for the duration of the week AND the following week. Do it twice and its TWO weeks, and ratchet it up for additional infractions, etc. I would agree with this, AS LONG AS everyone is *completely* responsible for keeping their own tally, but that Rick's tally wins, every time. That means no whining, Your count is wrong, Rick, or Buh...buh...but the Yahoo Search Engine said I still had 5 posts left. If you go over, you're out for the next week PERIOD. No excuses, no exceptions. Do it twice, and you're out for the next two weeks, no excuses, no exceptions. That's the only way it could work. We already know that Rick is not active enough here to monitor instantly when a person has gone over their limit. So that's not going to happen. If someone loses it and gets carried away over the limit of 50, chances are they'll rack up 60 or more posts before Rick notices. So the only teeth in this rule is what happens to the person the *following* week. That's why there can't be any exceptions or appeals. Go over the limit one week, and you're banned the next week, PERIOD. Go over the limit twice, and you're banned for the next two weeks, PERIOD. Go over the limit three times and you're banned for the next three weeks, PERIOD. And I would say, go over the limit four times within a three-month period, and you're banned for two or three full months, PERIOD. All of this said, I don't think there is anything wrong with the current 35-per-week limit. The *only* reason I'm checking in on this non-issue is that the point has to be made that there if the limit is raised, it has to be on a zero tolerance basis. No possibility of appeal or arguing or weaseling out of the consequences if Rick's count says you went over the limit. Otherwise, the people who have been trying to fuck with the current limit will just continue to fuck with the new limit. Common sense, people.
[FairfieldLife] Changing Thread Titles
I strongly encourage everyone to please change the title of a thread when the topic changes. Reflect your respect for FFL by doing so. Its like picking up litter on the ground. Many of us, I believe, don't care to follow some threads, and focus more on intelligent, insightful, humorous and informative ones. This is made so much easier, and time-efficiently, if EVERYONE will please change thread titles appropriately. Err on the side of clarity. As the topic shits, shirt the title too.
[FairfieldLife] mrfishey2001 is either Shemp or ?? ...was/American Poverty in the Ne
mrfishey2001 is either Shemp or (is Nabby that said he had several handles ? ) OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mrfishey2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: There is no shortage of atrocity in any country of our world. In view of the pissing contest between Curtis and Off about that, I guess I'd have to say that Edg has a point when he says It's all about men. In China, 40 million men will never find a wife, and the Chinese government, in an effort to find ways to deal with all that unemployed testosterone, considered starting a few little border wars here and there because there is, in fact, a connection between testosterone and aggression. It seems the height of irony to deal with Edg's statement by suggesting that he needs to take Viagra. It is a man's world, and doesn't it seem somewhat out of balance in the direction of testosterone as we stand on the brink of a world war to make the last two look puny? Dreadfully argued. But then, I imagine in the absence of reason and accountability, it does look like a man's world.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:02 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... I like this suggestion because in a way, it simplifies my task. I’ve been lenient about people going over here and there, but that’s unfair to those who carefully stick to the limit. Your suggestion (50 post limit but clear-cut consequences for violating it) removes the subjectivity from the equation. Anyone else feel strongly about this, one way or the other? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hindu Temple in Atlanta - Video
Very cool. It would be nice to see that in every major city. I particularly like their openness, to anyone, to visit. Part temple, part cultural archive and educational resource -- for the whole community. Culminating in many festivals to which the whole community is invited. It becomes part of the whole community's flow to celebrate Divwali, etc. All of which I think does and will cultivate religious and cultural tolerance. Who could walk through that temple and not appreciate at greater depth a 5000 year old culture -- its arts, literature, philosophy, etc. Same would be wonderful with Islamic temples and Islamic festivals. And Buddhist, all their various schools. As well as Wiccan, and lesser known spiritual traditions. And inclusiveness could furthered for Christian and Jewish festivals. The key would be inclusiveness, explanatory and educational, and NO proselytizing. Every month in a major city, there might be one or two major spiritual festivals. Someone once said that the spiritual practice / religion of the future will be people drawing the best from each tradition -- and leaving the rest. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HYPERLINK http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.cn nhttp://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.c nn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. You're right. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Go over the limit an you are instantly banned for the duration of the week AND the following week. Do it twice and its TWO weeks, and ratchet it up for additional infractions, etc. The extra 15 posts a week would give people breathing room -- the ideas is don't even come close to the limit if you are a lazy or imprecise counter. What do ya'll think? Are 35 posts too few? There are a few people who post quality stuff who always seem to run out. And to encourage rehabilitation, if a person is in the 2-3+ week ban category, they can have their ratchet amount eliminated if they stay unbanned for three months. But they need to apply for such a waiver, requesting it of you and the group. Now it's getting complicated. Gotta keep it simple if you want me to administer it. The posting limit topic is resurfacing so frequently on FFL that I'm beginning to see that history may regard the topic of posting limits as FFL's contribution to history. A technological solution to enforce posting limits would be welcome at this point, to simplify limit administration. We appreciate your flexibility to improve the discourse, but IMHO. 35 / week is a good level. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. You're right. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Go over the limit an you are instantly banned for the duration of the week AND the following week. Do it twice and its TWO weeks, and ratchet it up for additional infractions, etc. The extra 15 posts a week would give people breathing room -- the ideas is don't even come close to the limit if you are a lazy or imprecise counter. What do ya'll think? Are 35 posts too few? There are a few people who post quality stuff who always seem to run out. Raise the limit ONLY if its linked to a Zero Tolerance for overposting the new limit. And to encourage rehabilitation, if a person is in the 2-3+ week ban category, they can have their ratchet amount eliminated if they stay unbanned for three months. But they need to apply for such a waiver, requesting it of you and the group. Now it's getting complicated. Gotta keep it simple if you want me to administer it. This latter rehabilitaion clause is not necessary. But I don't see much if any administrative burden. A person would need keep track of their time-out time, and when eligible request a clean slate from the group. If there are no significant objections, then you would simply eliminate their cumulative penalty. Or are you objecting to their cumultive penalty -- and your having to track that? I think it would at most be 2-3 people -- putting one number next to their name on a list, not rocket science. And you would not even have to keep track of when to reinstate them. They would be banned until they send a note to you saying my ban is up, I have learned my lesson, please reinstate me. But that too is not necessary. Maybe just keep it VERY simple. Zero tolerance for going over the limit. Do it and you are out for a week. Period. Maybe that would be a better plan. I alter my suggestion to this simplified version.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
Please if anything cut the limit back to 25 post a week. Every topic with over 50 listings isn't still talking about that topic ...alway breaks down to people just zinging each other. Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of truth and liberation everywhere. At least 50% of the fast exchanges seem more like group encounter or comedy central or anjything but liberation. I really enjoy the rich and varied topics that come across this list wish one didn't have to wade through so much personal baggage. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:02 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... I like this suggestion because in a way, it simplifies my task. I've been lenient about people going over here and there, but that's unfair to those who carefully stick to the limit. Your suggestion (50 post limit but clear-cut consequences for violating it) removes the subjectivity from the equation. Anyone else feel strongly about this, one way or the other? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of new.morning Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:23 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting But that too is not necessary. Maybe just keep it VERY simple. Zero tolerance for going over the limit. Do it and you are out for a week. Period. Maybe that would be a better plan. I alter my suggestion to this simplified version. Or we could do the fancier version if you or Turq or someone kept track of the details. I would just be the guy to turn posting priviledges on and off, and to verify the count. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I was in the audience and understood english and german, I would say to David Lynch the following: David, I will explain to you what is going on. This audience is descended from a group of people who endured one of the most horrific events in human history, led by a madman that promised them 1000 years of ruling the world. Now you bring out this buffoon, this blithering idiot, who droned on and on and on the word invincibility, having absolutely no sensitivity to who his audience was or whether he meant invicibility in a military sense or some other point of view. In the same way that you drone on with your waves of bliss monologue, he brought back with his droning the memories of an earlier leader who promised world domination. Can you come off your magical mystery bliss cloud to see the pain he caused? And you actually buy the idea this man is suitable for regional leadership in your bliss soaked world order? You know, Lynch *did* see the pain the raja caused. He said so explicitly, and he apologized for it on the raja's behalf. Somebody had explained to him at some point the problem with the term invincibility and its connection to Hitler, so he understood exactly what was going on. Even the raja eventually got it and pointed out that the idea was to make *every nation* invincible and to destroy enmity between nations. Obviously it should have occurred to him long before he ever spoke that the term would be inflammatory to a German audience; and that he didn't realize it immediately when the audience started objecting is just beyond belief. One would love to have been a fly on the wall at the TMers' post-mortem. The audience too appeared to have at least figured out toward the end that the way they had taken the term wasn't what had been intended, even if they weren't clear on what it *did* mean in the TMO context. They certainly listened to Lynch pretty respectfully, and they applauded him when he was through. I wonder whether some of the people commenting here watched *both* video clips. Most of what I described above happened during the second one. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k357ErdUQyk Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytk
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
Rick Archer wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:02 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... I like this suggestion because in a way, it simplifies my task. I’ve been lenient about people going over here and there, but that’s unfair to those who carefully stick to the limit. Your suggestion (50 post limit but clear-cut consequences for violating it) removes the subjectivity from the equation. Anyone else feel strongly about this, one way or the other? I was thinking that 35 posts didn't give much headroom and raising it would help a bit. You implement the posting limit in the middle of summer when many aren't very active on the Internet but now with winter and some folks shut in by weather they will want to spend more time online and more time here. Of course as you know I'm against posting limits altogether as the people who complained need to learn to read group messages selectively and probably those who complain probably aren't that active on the Internet so you're kind of letting the lowest common denominator rule. It's sad that some of them thought that if they skipped a message that might have the little piece of information that might pop them into moksha. Not here, this is just a chat room of folks with something in common. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
Anger? Lol, you're an idiot. I was not angry, just having fun giving dumb Americans a history lesson. It was fun for me, but as the loser in the history lesson you are obviously a sore loser, and have to call the winner of the history contest angry. Your name calling betrays your need to feel superior in invented contests. Winner of the history contest. Is that how you imagine it? Enjoy your fantasy award. But I am neither an idiot nor dumb and am not impressed with your history rant. I hear them all the time by self impressed dudes at the clubs where I play music. They, like you,have no idea how they sound to others. I was not angry for one second. Put that in your head and hold it for one year, maybe something will sink in and you might learn something from this history lesson at least. So it was just a conversation with yourself and I just got in the way? All I have learned from you is that having a conversation with you is annoying due to your need to puff up your self importance and bogus superiority with name calling. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT YET .I don't live in this countryI OWN IT. Now get out of our way. We are Borg...Resistance is futile. The joke doesn't hide your need to fabricate your superiority over strangers. How is that working for you? It makes your conversation rather boorish from this end. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hindu Temple in Atlanta - Video
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.cn WOW! Maybe Maharishi could take a lesson. This magnificent massive temple was built for only $19 million. In a Suburb of Atlanta, a Temple Stops Traffic By BRENDA GOODMAN New York Times, July 5, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/274ege ATLANTA, July 4 As Ponce de Leon Avenue snakes eastward out of Atlanta into the suburbs, the groomed lawns, the painted brick colonials and the neighborhood parks designed by Frederick Law Olmsted give way to giant supermarkets, gas stations, strip malls and used-car dealerships with signs painted in several languages. Even the name of the road changes from Ponce, as it is known to in-towners, to the more utilitarian Lawrenceville Highway, helpfully alerting drivers who might be unfamiliar with Atlanta's suburban sprawl that they will eventually reach Lawrenceville. In the midst of this bleak assault to the senses is a novel building that is certain to grab motorists' attention, and perhaps even cause a few car accidents. Sitting like a wedding cake atop a mound of red clay in the suburb of Lilburn is the Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, a Hindu temple that shares an intersection with a Publix supermarket and a Walgreens pharmacy. The exterior is a confection of creamy hand-carved limestone and sparkling Italian Carrara marble. Pink sandstone decorates the interior spaces. When this building, topped with red-and-white flags to ward off evil, opens for worship in a few weeks, it will officially be one of the largest Hindu temples in the world. The main reaction in Lilburn, a town so conservative that it recently outlawed pastimes like pool, karaoke and trivia contests in establishments that serve alcohol an apparent effort to keep bars out has been puzzlement. I think people in that area didn't really understand what they were fixing to have there, said William Reynolds, principal architect at Smallwoods, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart, the firm that worked with Indian designers to build the mandir, a Sanskrit word for the place where the mind becomes still and the soul floats freely. The stone for the project was shipped piece by piece from India, where craftsmen had sculptured it into more than 500 designs including rosettes, leaves, feathers and lacy geometric patterns. The thousands of sections, ranging from five ounces to five tons, each with its own bar code, have been assembled like a giant jigsaw puzzle based on instructions for religious buildings written into scripture thousands of years old. Although the engineers said they had not counted the number of pieces they used, a mandir in London that served as a model for the Lilburn building required more than 26,000 individual parts. The price tag for the project, $19 million, has been kept down by the thousands of hours of volunteer labor donated by congregants of the BAPS Swaminarayan temple in Clarkston, Ga., who will move from a converted skating rink when the temple is completed in August. For more than two years homemakers and retirees have been polishing the stonework by hand and cooking for the construction workers. Hundreds of volunteers installed more than 50,000 plants for the landscaping. It comes from your inner heart, said a woman who insisted on being identified only as Minal because she said it would be unseemly to call attention to herself. The temple has inspired my 4-year-old to get up from his computer, and nothing can do that, she said. Every evening we are going to go down there to worship, and it's going to make a tremendous difference on our kids' brains. Inspirational though it may be, some locals feel that the temple might be more at home near the Ganges than the Rocky Food Mart. Mostly people are proud to have it here, said Jack Bolton, the mayor of Lilburn. But I've heard from a few who say it doesn't fit in with the character of anything else in the area. If it was a big Baptist church, I don't think anyone would have objected, he added. In many ways the architectural juxtaposition reflects the booming diversity of metropolitan Atlanta's neighborhoods. A survey conducted in the Atlanta area in 1985 found there were just 15 to 20 core Swaminarayan families here. Today there are about 900 regular members in metropolitan Atlanta and as many as 6,000 worshipers who flock here from other places on festival days. (Atlanta has one of the fastest-growing South Asian populations in the United States, according to Census data.) ...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chopra's Intent blog
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: snip Conceptually is broad enough that it could mean anything. And you only threw in the whole conceptual thing in that last post because you needed an out for your initial bullshit statement. BTW, I don't recall that the TMO ever published for the public anything that described in detail the method of learning meditation or even checking. The only thing is MMY giving a description *conceptually.* And *why* has the TMO never published any such detailed description, Bhairitu? But anyway anyone who has stepped outside of the movement knows that there is nothing unique about the way the mantra is given and it is old as time itself. Straw man. Nobody suggested there was anything unique about how the mantra is given.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Non-Topic Thread Headings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Janet Luise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please if anything cut the limit back to 25 post a week. Every topic with over 50 listings isn't still talking about that topic ...alway breaks down to people just zinging each other. Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of truth and liberation everywhere. At least 50% of the fast exchanges seem more like group encounter or comedy central or anjything but liberation. I really enjoy the rich and varied topics that come across this list wish one didn't have to wade through so much personal baggage. The key and solution to avoiding the personal baggage and flame-wars to for people to change the thread title as the topic changes. (And I feel some posters can contribute 50 useful posts a week. ) While a week ban on people who don't change thread titles may be effective, it may be too harsh. As as an alternative solution, I suggest that an existing or new moderator be tasked with editing thread titles as they change. And if they become slugfests, preface the thread heading with FLAME: If the current moderators do not have the time or inclination to do this, I am confident there will be impartial volunteers who can do such. (And as a safety valve, if a thread-header moderator is found or seen to be biased or partial in their edited thread headings, the group can vote to relieve them of the duty and have someone else do it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I think the problem is that invincibility is a TMO buzzword that very few rajas or TM spokespeople can actually define. If you try to define it as MMY intends, it comes across as pure fascism. No wonder the German audience got upset. Hitler understood invincibility very, very well. Gosh, it would be interesting to know what definition of invincibility Peter has heard, because it's quite different from what I've heard. Both the raja and then Lynch gave the definition I'm familiar with: to be invincible means *not to have any enemies*. MMY's phrase is that invincibility disallows the birth of an enemy. Which is, of course, quite different from how Hitler understood it: having the power to *crush* your enemies. Both the raja and Lynch pointed out that TM's goal is for *every country* to be invincible in the TM sense. That was not Hitler's understanding of invincibility either; only Germany was to be made invincible. TM's invincibility is a term of peace and comity, not a term of war and aggression. It describes a world in which no nation feels the need to impose its will on any other. Pretty hard to interpret that as fascistic. So what definition did you hear, Peter?
[FairfieldLife] Re: the amazing theater in Berlin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In answer to feste37 (see below), I'd like to ask, what if Marshy really is enlightened and is laughing his fool head off like Vaj and Curtisdeltablues and me? What if Marshy is rolling around on the floor with us? What if he's smart enough to deconstruct his whole movement, I mean MOVEMENT, excuse me, in the manner we have been witnessing these past few years? snip I don't know about MMY, but that video totally cracked me up; I haven't laughed that hard in years. I almost choked on my tongue! In part, I think, it's a cautionary tale because in making overt claims of Invincibility and elimination of all negativity and all that, they are really speaking of extremely subtle, interior, Raam-Raj particle-loving and one's consequent integrity and harmony; of the true marriage of Purusha and Prakriti, but this video illustrates how hideously distorted those understandings can become when misinterpreted, misunderstood and misapplied by a separate small-mind, one that has not yet died. And I'm not speaking of the audience. The way the Raj treated his particles in that video -- dully repeating Invincibility, over and over, like a mantra, and *louder* and *louder* to drown out the objections and consequent chaos, trying to get all his particles to sing along (which they do automatically, Vedically, when one is in harmony with them), refusing or unable to actually speak to their concerns, was a perfect example of the tyranny of Brahma-raj -- the fascism of the ignorant-I -- rather than the intimate sweetness of Raam-raj. David Lynch, OTOH, was a very impressive example of Raam-raj, I thought. It was brilliant theater, truly brilliant. And again, I am *not* judging the depth or breadth of *anyone's* actual enlightenment here, because there is no one here to be enlightened, to judge or be judged in reality: only appreciating aspects of my own understanding or lack of it, as illustrated by the *actors in the movie.* The Raaj did a beautiful job acting out the attempts and strategies of the unripe or not-yet-dead mind to control its environment. Lynch did a beautiful job acting out the ability of the dead to Be Here Now; to listen to feedback and begin to harmonize one's particles. Each played perfectly off the other. They're both perfect; both in reality just momentary fluctuations of emptiful Nothing, of Me, of the Self.
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are right, Deltablues, no one likes to be called a dumb American. But we are dumb in lots of typically American ways, just as the Brits are dumb in typically British ways. It is for this reason that Isaiah says in the Old Testament that it is the escapees of the nations of earth who are the best teachers. There should be some way of pointing out one another's blind spots without being as rude as Off World undoubtedly was, or taking offence as you undoubtedly did. Pride and shame make us equally blind and equally incapable of learning. I don't think we are understanding the term dumb in the same way. He wasn't pointing out blind spots because he has no clue about what I know and what I don't about history or other cultures. Learning is never applied from someone else, it is sought by the person who wants to learn. People who try to impose their POV on others without calibrating if they are actually communicating is called boorish behavior. But there is something else I'd like you to consider. I was dead serious when I said that Marshy's prolly rolling with laughter on the ground with us over that amazing piece of theater we just saw in Berlin. Nazi Germany was hell on earth, and we shall see it again soon, and, more than likely, the war that fascism always brings will come to American soil. Afterwards, there will be the phoenix rising that I saw as a child in post war Germany. It was heaven on earth for a few years. It is not hard to see this pattern. And the next world war will make the last two look puny, so the phoenix rising might be around for a thousand years. It does not take a Maharishi to see that this is what's going down. And this is the context for the play we just saw staged in Berlin. In my opinion, it was brilliant visionary theater on a world stage at a particular moment in history. I think you are taking the event much more seriously than I am. A pompous ass who was not in rapport with his audience, while infatuated with his own self importance got called on it. It even happen here on FFL. How conscious were Marhy and Lynch, individually and together, in that collaboration? In the experience of generations of literary critics, it is always a big mistake to assume the artist was not conscious of what he was doing and conscious of the effect he was creating in people. With live theater, there is some question about how much was plan and how much was Nature support, but the difference between them is highly debatable in any case. Do we know for a fact that audience response was entirely spontaneous? Could there have been plants? M (that was my cat, Greymir, on the keyboard, not me) If you are entering the conspiracy forest you will have to walk alone. The Raja sounded like a dumbass so he got treated as one. We cannot accuse Marshy of being stupid about marketing (I'll get back to the asinine beekeeper's outfits). His schools may or may not be successful, but he's got the land and the buildings, which, as the Vatican knows very well, you need if you want to survive more than a generation or two. Could it be that Marshy knows how ridiculous the raja costumes are? It is virtually certain that Lynch knows it. I think Marshy does too, so what is his point? Merely that negative attention is better than no attention? He could get negative attention in any number of ways, but he chose the rajassymbols, if nothing else, of the divine right of kings, and, with it, the purportedly natural law of the caste system. The rajas do like old men playing at being Cinderella's princesthat is what they look like now. What might they look like after the earth lies in ruins? Or after the one-world government James Paul Warburg promised us in 1950 has established an iron global dictatorship complete with microchips and a holographic Jesus type comes out of the clouds courtesy of Hollywood? I can't relate to your fears here. The Rajas would look equally idiotic after the earth lay in ruins, and would have equally inadequate solutions to the world's problems. In fact under your imagined catastrophic scenario their outfits would be the least of our worries. I suspect that their crowns and outfits wouldn't survive an apocalypse any better than anything else. I can only relate to your holographic Jesus from a science fiction POV. In that context it is imaginative. The connection between German style fascism and the TMO is profound, and it is stupid, in my opinion, not to investigate this connection in order to understand it at some depth and across several dimensions if we really want to understand Marshy's greatness, which, like Vaj, I am affirming. The TMO shies away from the comparison because Nazi Germany has become the symbol of ultimate evil, and they don't want it associated with their leader about whom Mother Divine is singing a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chopra's Intent blog
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The MMY-Deepak partnership was beneficial to both, and Deepak is under no obligation to credit MMY every time he says something about consciousness, in fact as I understand it the TMO lawyers get upset if Deepak does mention the mov't in any way. That's just what I said, to considerable derision from someone here who claimed it was just my theory that I had been presenting as fact.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Changing Thread Titles
new.morning wrote: I strongly encourage everyone to please change the title of a thread when the topic changes. Reflect your respect for FFL by doing so. Its like picking up litter on the ground. Many of us, I believe, don't care to follow some threads, and focus more on intelligent, insightful, humorous and informative ones. This is made so much easier, and time-efficiently, if EVERYONE will please change thread titles appropriately. Err on the side of clarity. As the topic shits, shirt the title too. Been here before haven't we? It's a sore topic to them and I've goaded the group many times for what is known as thread hijacking and it usually pisses them off. So to make it clearer when someone wants to take the topic in a different direction or something in that thread reminds them of something completely diverged from that topic just start a new topic by which of the two means you can. And that does not mean simply changing the title of the subject. You have to start a whole new topic. On the web it is probably easier than in email where you may be responding to FFL under an email name that is not your default email. You probably want your new direction or topic to stand out rather than burying deep into some trivial free for all that is going on at the moment. As I and others have mentioned here on some Yahoo groups thread hijacking is the equivalent of overposting here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chopra's Intent blog
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 16, 2007, at 8:45 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: snip As anyone knows who reads my posts here on FFL, I have alot of complaints about MMY and the TMO. But this is the one thing that should not and cannot be taken away from the man: he promoted and made available to the world a technique to obtain enlightenment that was easy and effortless to do. And although I can't prove it (this can only be something that one can declare subjectively), it is this effortlessness that makes it the most effective self-development technique around. What Shemp said. Of course, the True Nonbelievers will insist that it's not subjective experience but rather what you have been taught to believe. But they can't prove that any more than we can prove our subjective assessment of TM. So it's a standoff. (Interestingly, some of the True Nonbelievers have been known to preach to us that we should always trust our own subjective experience, as well as to express outrage when anyone questions *their* subjective experience.) snip He took it away from himself when he declared that TM was NOT effortless The closest MMY has come to such a declaration is to use the phrase effortless effort--but it's important to understand the context of that phrase, which the True Nonbelievers simply ignore. it is easy but then so are many, many other meditation methods. Any real yogi familiar with Patanjali will be well aware that as long as there are supports (alambanas) there will always be some effort. Effortless meditation or non-meditation can only occur without supports or props like mantras, etc. This is fundamentally a misleading quibble that has zilch to do with TM's claim to uniqueness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The audience reacted negatively because to them, the rhetoric of the TMO sounds just like Hitler style fascism. It's not just the word invincibility. It's the whole vibe of the thing. a No, they were fine with Lynch, and he was using the same rhetoric, just not that particular word. They quieted right down when Lynch took over the podium again; they were willing to hear what he had to say. They were reacting negatively to the *raja's* vibe; who wouldn't? (Not because his vibe is fascist, but because he's a pompous ass.) But that reaction didn't extend to Lynch even after the raja had blown it. I thought Lynch did a good job straightening out the misunderstanding. At least the audience seems to have realized the way they took it originally wasn't the way it was meant. What puzzles me is, the TMO has been using the word invincibility for many years. You'd think *somebody* in the German TMO would have pointed out the problem with the German term by now. It's like advocating states' rights or Jim Crow to an audience of African-Americans (only worse). Why didn't the raja dude know that, if he's German himself?
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: snip Do we know for a fact that audience response was entirely spontaneous? Could there have been plants? M (that was my cat, Greymir, on the keyboard, not me) If you are entering the conspiracy forest you will have to walk alone. The Raja sounded like a dumbass so he got treated as one. Actually, I had the sense there might have been plants too, but not of the same type I suspect Angela has in mind. It isn't unknown for TMO events in this country to be disrupted by plants, typically either fundamentalist Christians or disaffected former TMers who attend the events with the intention of challenging the TMO speakers and raising a fuss. The presence of such plants and the dumbassity of the raja are not mutually exclusive.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
You're prolly right. The pompous ass vibe is more important in this video than the fascist vibe. Curtisdeltablues is prolly also right in his assessment of my take on the thing. But invincibilitystill seems the wrong word to choose if your intent is to communicate disallowing the birth of an enemy. Invincible means not conquerable, as the word comes from the Latin vincere or to conquer. It may seem a moot point---if you disallow the birth of an enemy, you are not conquerable because there is no enemy around anywhere who could do it. Still, word choice seems important to me, and this word is military in origin and import. This is even clearer in German, a language in which many words wear their etymologies on their sleeves, so to speak. Unbesiegbar in German is a much more clearly military term in German than it is in English. As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The audience reacted negatively because to them, the rhetoric of the TMO sounds just like Hitler style fascism. It's not just the word invincibility. It's the whole vibe of the thing. a No, they were fine with Lynch, and he was using the same rhetoric, just not that particular word. They quieted right down when Lynch took over the podium again; they were willing to hear what he had to say. They were reacting negatively to the *raja's* vibe; who wouldn't? (Not because his vibe is fascist, but because he's a pompous ass.) But that reaction didn't extend to Lynch even after the raja had blown it. I thought Lynch did a good job straightening out the misunderstanding. At least the audience seems to have realized the way they took it originally wasn't the way it was meant. What puzzles me is, the TMO has been using the word invincibility for many years. You'd think *somebody* in the German TMO would have pointed out the problem with the German term by now. It's like advocating states' rights or Jim Crow to an audience of African-Americans (only worse). Why didn't the raja dude know that, if he's German himself? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: snip Do we know for a fact that audience response was entirely spontaneous? Could there have been plants? M (that was my cat, Greymir, on the keyboard, not me) If you are entering the conspiracy forest you will have to walk alone. The Raja sounded like a dumbass so he got treated as one. Actually, I had the sense there might have been plants too, but not of the same type I suspect Angela has in mind. It isn't unknown for TMO events in this country to be disrupted by plants, typically either fundamentalist Christians or disaffected former TMers who attend the events with the intention of challenging the TMO speakers and raising a fuss. The presence of such plants and the dumbassity of the raja are not mutually exclusive. Excellent last line! I think if a group put a plant in the audience they would bring up more embarrassing things to the movement. They would have more ammunition from the inside. This seemed like a pretty normal reaction to anyone who gets in front of a group and claims to have sweeping solutions to life's problems,while wearing a costume. I had the feeling that certain trigger words like Hitler not followed by an unequivocal was bad work in Germany like Segregation not followed by an unambiguous was bad works here. Once you trigger that strong reaction in a crowd all subtle distinctions are gone and a mob mentality takes over. What I can't understand is why MMY would reverse his own wise policy to dress his minions in business suits when speaking to the public. The Raja get up should be like formal military dress, used only for ceremonies at group members only events. I think the old man has lost his marketing touch.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. You are on the ground in Fairfield, so you should know. But this is not what I have heard from friends who have visited recently. Although there is a group think consensus on some beliefs like nature support, I heard that Fairfield supports free thinking. At least outside the inner core or as it is known, the Raja's realm. Aren't there many different styles of thinking within a basically spiritual framework there? Personally I might have trouble with a constant undercurrent of spirituality assumptions. I live among recent immigrants because I love the stimulation of few intellectually shared assumptions. So why put up with those Winters if the intellectual climate isn't working for you? authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: The audience reacted negatively because to them, the rhetoric of the TMO sounds just like Hitler style fascism. It's not just the word invincibility. It's the whole vibe of the thing. a No, they were fine with Lynch, and he was using the same rhetoric, just not that particular word. They quieted right down when Lynch took over the podium again; they were willing to hear what he had to say. They were reacting negatively to the *raja's* vibe; who wouldn't? (Not because his vibe is fascist, but because he's a pompous ass.) But that reaction didn't extend to Lynch even after the raja had blown it. I thought Lynch did a good job straightening out the misunderstanding. At least the audience seems to have realized the way they took it originally wasn't the way it was meant. What puzzles me is, the TMO has been using the word invincibility for many years. You'd think *somebody* in the German TMO would have pointed out the problem with the German term by now. It's like advocating states' rights or Jim Crow to an audience of African-Americans (only worse). Why didn't the raja dude know that, if he's German himself? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
I wasn't describing the totality of Fairfield. It does support all kinds of thinking and all kinds of wonderful craziness. But there is definitely a fascist vibe to the inner core of the org. We've got town Rus and Campus Rus. I sometimes refer to them as house niggers and field niggers. And there are plenty of ex Rus and seekers from other traditions as well. The raja costumes are part of the inner core. Y'all are prolly all used to the fascist vibe looking exclusively like Darth Veder, but Germans remember something more varied than that. There was a large New Age component to German fascism, which started out as stupidly insipid as those rajas are, and then got increasingly dark. There were dudes in ridiculous robes running around in Germany under Hitler. They didn't wear the same style of crowns but preferred wreaths made of oak leaves, sometimes gilded. a curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. You are on the ground in Fairfield, so you should know. But this is not what I have heard from friends who have visited recently. Although there is a group think consensus on some beliefs like nature support, I heard that Fairfield supports free thinking. At least outside the inner core or as it is known, the Raja's realm. Aren't there many different styles of thinking within a basically spiritual framework there? Personally I might have trouble with a constant undercurrent of spirituality assumptions. I live among recent immigrants because I love the stimulation of few intellectually shared assumptions. So why put up with those Winters if the intellectual climate isn't working for you? authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: The audience reacted negatively because to them, the rhetoric of the TMO sounds just like Hitler style fascism. It's not just the word invincibility. It's the whole vibe of the thing. a No, they were fine with Lynch, and he was using the same rhetoric, just not that particular word. They quieted right down when Lynch took over the podium again; they were willing to hear what he had to say. They were reacting negatively to the *raja's* vibe; who wouldn't? (Not because his vibe is fascist, but because he's a pompous ass.) But that reaction didn't extend to Lynch even after the raja had blown it. I thought Lynch did a good job straightening out the misunderstanding. At least the audience seems to have realized the way they took it originally wasn't the way it was meant. What puzzles me is, the TMO has been using the word invincibility for many years. You'd think *somebody* in the German TMO would have pointed out the problem with the German term by now. It's like advocating states' rights or Jim Crow to an audience of African-Americans (only worse). Why didn't the raja dude know that, if he's German himself? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're prolly right. The pompous ass vibe is more important in this video than the fascist vibe. Curtisdeltablues is prolly also right in his assessment of my take on the thing. But invincibilitystill seems the wrong word to choose if your intent is to communicate disallowing the birth of an enemy. Invincible means not conquerable, as the word comes from the Latin vincere or to conquer. It may seem a moot point---if you disallow the birth of an enemy, you are not conquerable because there is no enemy around anywhere who could do it. Still, word choice seems important to me, and this word is military in origin and import. This is even clearer in German, a language in which many words wear their etymologies on their sleeves, so to speak. Unbesiegbar in German is a much more clearly military term in German than it is in English. I agree, it's a tricky word. I'd be curious to know how MMY came up with the term. I wonder if there's an equivalent Sanskrit term that occurs in the Vedic or perhaps Yogic literature that has the meaning MMY assigns to invincible. As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. The way the TMO operates can sometimes be fascistic (in a very loose meaning of the term), but the TM ideology itself ain't. The Berlin event was about the ideology. If the management of the event had been fascistic, Lynch would hardly have been allowed to casually elbow the raja aside, twice, and speak in his place; nor would there have been any question of actually entertaining the objections of the audience, let alone apologizing. The objecters would have been quickly ejected from the gathering.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Solution to Overposting
On Nov 17, 2007, at 10:48 AM, new.morning wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was away most of yesterday and didn't notice until late last night that Off World was up to 44 posts. This may be opening up a can of worms, but I wonder if we should have a policy where I grant a special dispensation of extra posts if a particularly lively conversation is taking place between two people, as long as it's substantive and not just a flame war. Barry and Judy would not be eligible. I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Best idea yet. To give Off more of a forum for his gratuitous insults--entertaining though they can be--but deny Barry and Judy one for theirs seems totally arbitrary and unfair. This idea is one I could vote for. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Changing Thread Titles
On Nov 17, 2007, at 10:55 AM, new.morning wrote: As the topic shits, shirt the title too. Don't know if this was intentional or not, new, but it's got to be the sentence of the week--two hilarious typos for the price of one. :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. You are the one who likes to alienate a whole group of people...ie TM'rs...and now you are all hurt inside when I (and 5.5 billion others on the planet ) ridicule american pride in their despotic regime. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anger? Lol, you're an idiot. I was not angry, just having fun giving dumb Americans a history lesson. It was fun for me, but as the loser in the history lesson you are obviously a sore loser, and have to call the winner of the history contest angry. Your name calling betrays your need to feel superior in invented contests. Winner of the history contest. Is that how you imagine it? Enjoy your fantasy award. But I am neither an idiot nor dumb and am not impressed with your history rant. I hear them all the time by self impressed dudes at the clubs where I play music. They, like you,have no idea how they sound to others. I was not angry for one second. Put that in your head and hold it for one year, maybe something will sink in and you might learn something from this history lesson at least. So it was just a conversation with yourself and I just got in the way? All I have learned from you is that having a conversation with you is annoying due to your need to puff up your self importance and bogus superiority with name calling. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT YET .I don't live in this countryI OWN IT. Now get out of our way. We are Borg...Resistance is futile. The joke doesn't hide your need to fabricate your superiority over strangers. How is that working for you? It makes your conversation rather boorish from this end. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Changing Thread Titles
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 17, 2007, at 10:55 AM, new.morning wrote: As the topic shits, shirt the title too. Don't know if this was intentional or not, new, but it's got to be the sentence of the week--two hilarious typos for the price of one. :) At first I thought it was some weird play on the joke that ends, If the foo shits, wear it. Took me quite a while to realize it was typos.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
On Nov 17, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Janet Luise wrote: I really enjoy the rich and varied topics that come across this list wish one didn't have to wade through so much personal baggage. You don't have to wade through anything, Janet--just delete them. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
You're using the word fascist to mean merely authoritarian. I have something more specific in mind. Natural law was a concept very much alive in German fascism, for example, and it entailed a caste system, as does the whole raja thing. Fascism also meant the divine right of rulers, which the rajas definitely represent. In fact, von Papen, Hitler's vice chancellor and a Papal Chamberlain, wrote in the official Nazi newspaper that Hitler reinstated the divine right of rulers, which the French Revolution had undermined so deeply. There was a peacetime component to German fascism, not just the military aspect that we're all familiar with. And the ideology, as well as the aesthetic vibe, of the peacetime version was very similar to TMO's ideology and aesthetic vibe. They thought in terms of higher states of consciousness, for sure. They had nine of them, rather than MMY's eight. And, as is well known, Hitler meditated with the top brass of the SS. Nor was he the only one doing group meds. It may be a universal thing. But there is a look to the Rus here in town. You often can distinguish a Ru from a Townie. This look was part of German Nazis also. You are just not familiar with that part of it because the media emphasized the military aspect of German fascism and the rest of it was totally ignored after the war. But Germans are still sensitive to it. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're prolly right. The pompous ass vibe is more important in this video than the fascist vibe. Curtisdeltablues is prolly also right in his assessment of my take on the thing. But invincibilitystill seems the wrong word to choose if your intent is to communicate disallowing the birth of an enemy. Invincible means not conquerable, as the word comes from the Latin vincere or to conquer. It may seem a moot point---if you disallow the birth of an enemy, you are not conquerable because there is no enemy around anywhere who could do it. Still, word choice seems important to me, and this word is military in origin and import. This is even clearer in German, a language in which many words wear their etymologies on their sleeves, so to speak. Unbesiegbar in German is a much more clearly military term in German than it is in English. I agree, it's a tricky word. I'd be curious to know how MMY came up with the term. I wonder if there's an equivalent Sanskrit term that occurs in the Vedic or perhaps Yogic literature that has the meaning MMY assigns to invincible. As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. The way the TMO operates can sometimes be fascistic (in a very loose meaning of the term), but the TM ideology itself ain't. The Berlin event was about the ideology. If the management of the event had been fascistic, Lynch would hardly have been allowed to casually elbow the raja aside, twice, and speak in his place; nor would there have been any question of actually entertaining the objections of the audience, let alone apologizing. The objecters would have been quickly ejected from the gathering. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
Yes, I listened to both clips before I wrote. I am aware of everything you say. The Raja and Lynch eventually got it. I would have expected Lynch and Co. to do better, to be more professional, in a period of time when the movement is apparently in some decline. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: If I was in the audience and understood english and german, I would say to David Lynch the following: David, I will explain to you what is going on. This audience is descended from a group of people who endured one of the most horrific events in human history, led by a madman that promised them 1000 years of ruling the world. Now you bring out this buffoon, this blithering idiot, who droned on and on and on the word invincibility, having absolutely no sensitivity to who his audience was or whether he meant invicibility in a military sense or some other point of view. In the same way that you drone on with your waves of bliss monologue, he brought back with his droning the memories of an earlier leader who promised world domination. Can you come off your magical mystery bliss cloud to see the pain he caused? And you actually buy the idea this man is suitable for regional leadership in your bliss soaked world order? You know, Lynch *did* see the pain the raja caused. He said so explicitly, and he apologized for it on the raja's behalf. Somebody had explained to him at some point the problem with the term invincibility and its connection to Hitler, so he understood exactly what was going on. Even the raja eventually got it and pointed out that the idea was to make *every nation* invincible and to destroy enmity between nations. Obviously it should have occurred to him long before he ever spoke that the term would be inflammatory to a German audience; and that he didn't realize it immediately when the audience started objecting is just beyond belief. One would love to have been a fly on the wall at the TMers' post-mortem. The audience too appeared to have at least figured out toward the end that the way they had taken the term wasn't what had been intended, even if they weren't clear on what it *did* mean in the TMO context. They certainly listened to Lynch pretty respectfully, and they applauded him when he was through. I wonder whether some of the people commenting here watched *both* video clips. Most of what I described above happened during the second one. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k357ErdUQyk Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytk
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
Actually, they're sweet people. The problem is not with them but with you and your Nazi obsession. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis.
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: You are right, Deltablues, no one likes to be called a dumb American. But we are dumb in lots of typically American ways, just as the Brits are dumb in typically British ways. It is for this reason that Isaiah says in the Old Testament that it is the escapees of the nations of earth who are the best teachers. There should be some way of pointing out one another's blind spots without being as rude as Off World undoubtedly was, or taking offence as you undoubtedly did. Pride and shame make us equally blind and equally incapable of learning. I don't think we are understanding the term dumb in the same way. He wasn't pointing out blind spots because he has no clue about what I know and what I don't about history or other cultures. Learning is never applied from someone else, it is sought by the person who wants to learn. Then why have you allowed 200 YEARS of BRAIN-WASHING to color your reason? Literaly brain- washing. Think about it. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:02 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... I like this suggestion because in a way, it simplifies my task. I've been lenient about people going over here and there, but that's unfair to those who carefully stick to the limit. Your suggestion (50 post limit but clear-cut consequences for violating it) removes the subjectivity from the equation. Anyone else feel strongly about this, one way or the other? 50 post limit @ 200 words maximum per post. ...or... 75 post limit @ 100 words maximum per post. ...or... 300 post limit @ 25 words per post. ...or... 20 post limit @ 500 words per post. ...or... 35 post limit @ 300 words per post for 50% of those posts and 100 words per post for the other 50% ...or... 50 post limit @100 words per post for 33.3% of those posts, 200 words per post for another 33.3% of those posts, and 300 words per post for the remaining 33.3% of those post. ...or... 25 posts limit with unlimited words per post but you have to give every reader of the post $1,000 in monopoly money which they have to spend on an imaginary stock market which we'll set up and after 6 months we'll see who got the most capital gains. ...or... Just post however many posts per week that you want and if anyone is irritated by this, they don't have to click on any post that they don't want to. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're using the word fascist to mean merely authoritarian. I have something more specific in mind. Natural law was a concept very much alive in German fascism, for example, and it entailed a caste system, as does the whole raja thing. Fascism also meant the divine right of rulers, which the rajas definitely represent. In fact, von Papen, Hitler's vice chancellor and a Papal Chamberlain, wrote in the official Nazi newspaper that Hitler reinstated the divine right of rulers, which the French Revolution had undermined so deeply. There was a peacetime component to German fascism, not just the military aspect that we're all familiar with. And the ideology, as well as the aesthetic vibe, of the peacetime version was very similar to TMO's ideology and aesthetic vibe. They thought in terms of higher states of consciousness, for sure. They had nine of them, rather than MMY's eight. And, as is well known, Hitler meditated with the top brass of the SS. Nor was he the only one doing group meds. Angela, this is all just so silly it's impossible to address. *Whatever* the people of a country are into, a Hitler-type could take it and run with it.
[FairfieldLife] Where's Waldo?
I'd still love to know what happened to Bevan. In Part II, he disappears behind the curtain. That was the most precious part of the video, as far as I'm concerned. Did he call Maharishi? Was he balling out the organisers? Did he go for a wee-wee? Did he have a conniption fit? Was he just trying to escape the negativity? Was he going for a sandwich (he hadn't eaten in 12 minutes)? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: If I was in the audience and understood english and german, I would say to David Lynch the following: David, I will explain to you what is going on. This audience is descended from a group of people who endured one of the most horrific events in human history, led by a madman that promised them 1000 years of ruling the world. Now you bring out this buffoon, this blithering idiot, who droned on and on and on the word invincibility, having absolutely no sensitivity to who his audience was or whether he meant invicibility in a military sense or some other point of view. In the same way that you drone on with your waves of bliss monologue, he brought back with his droning the memories of an earlier leader who promised world domination. Can you come off your magical mystery bliss cloud to see the pain he caused? And you actually buy the idea this man is suitable for regional leadership in your bliss soaked world order? You know, Lynch *did* see the pain the raja caused. He said so explicitly, and he apologized for it on the raja's behalf. Somebody had explained to him at some point the problem with the term invincibility and its connection to Hitler, so he understood exactly what was going on. Even the raja eventually got it and pointed out that the idea was to make *every nation* invincible and to destroy enmity between nations. Obviously it should have occurred to him long before he ever spoke that the term would be inflammatory to a German audience; and that he didn't realize it immediately when the audience started objecting is just beyond belief. One would love to have been a fly on the wall at the TMers' post-mortem. The audience too appeared to have at least figured out toward the end that the way they had taken the term wasn't what had been intended, even if they weren't clear on what it *did* mean in the TMO context. They certainly listened to Lynch pretty respectfully, and they applauded him when he was through. I wonder whether some of the people commenting here watched *both* video clips. Most of what I described above happened during the second one. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k357ErdUQyk Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytk
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. You are on the ground in Fairfield, so you should know. But this is not what I have heard from friends who have visited recently. Although there is a group think consensus on some beliefs like nature support, I heard that Fairfield supports free thinking. At least outside the inner core or as it is known, the Raja's realm. Aren't there many different styles of thinking within a basically spiritual framework there? Personally I might have trouble with a constant undercurrent of spirituality assumptions. I live among recent immigrants because I love the stimulation of few intellectually shared assumptions. So why put up with those Winters if the intellectual climate isn't working for you? Because this A.M is mad, raving cracy that's why, with an intuition more muddled than my neighbours Rotweiler and an intellect at about the same level.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick Archer wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:02 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting I wrote to Rick in email about this, agreeing that his proposal is a Dumb Idea. However... I like this suggestion because in a way, it simplifies my task. I've been lenient about people going over here and there, but that's unfair to those who carefully stick to the limit. Your suggestion (50 post limit but clear-cut consequences for violating it) removes the subjectivity from the equation. Anyone else feel strongly about this, one way or the other? I was thinking that 35 posts didn't give much headroom and raising it would help a bit. You implement the posting limit in the middle of summer when many aren't very active on the Internet but now with winter and some folks shut in by weather they will want to spend more time online and more time here. Of course as you know I'm against posting limits altogether as the people who complained need to learn to read group messages selectively and probably those who complain probably aren't that active on the Internet so you're kind of letting the lowest common denominator rule. It's sad that some of them thought that if they skipped a message that might have the little piece of information that might pop them into moksha. Not here, this is just a chat room of folks with something in common. :) Hey, Barfitu, this is one thing we agree on! No posting limits! Learn to read group message selectively is the key here. Very simple to do. Weigh the inconvenience of reading group messages selectively against censoring people of how they choose to express themselves (like myself, I do alot of short, quick posts that easily go over the limit) and I think you have to conclude that unlimited posts is the answer. Of course, if you're into censorship, like Mr. Hall Monitor Barry Wright, you'll support posting limits.
[FairfieldLife] British rule in N. America - Shemp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Indeed, the British so angered the American British by abandoning
English Common Law in Quebec after that victory in Quebec that this
was one of the complaints registered to King George in the
Declaration of Independence (see the in a neighbouring province
reference).
British Rule
The Seven Years' War began in 1756. The British and French had co-
existed in North America, but the threat of French expansion into the
Ohio Valley caused the British to attempt to eradicate New France
completely from the map. The French had constructed a wall around
Quebec City {which exists to this day) in order to keep the British
out. In 1763, France formally ceded its claims to Canada, and Quebec
City's French-speaking, Catholic population was under the rule of
Protestant Britain.
The British did not set out, however, to persecute Quebec's native
French population. The Quebec Act, passed in 1774, allowed the
Quebecois to have religious freedom. The French-Canadians were
therefore not unhappy enough with British rule to choose to
participate in the American Revolution. Without Canadian cooperation
against the British, the thirteen colonies instead attempted to
invade Canada. The city was therefore once again under siege when the
Battle of Quebec (1775) occurred in 1775. The initial attack was a
failure due to American inexperience with the extreme cold
temperatures of the city in December. Benedict Arnold refused to
accept the defeat in the Battle of Quebec and a siege against the
city continued until May 6, 1776, when the American army finally
retreated.
The Constitutional Act of 1791 divided Canada into an Upper,
English-speaking colony, and a Lower, French-speaking colony.
Québec City was made the capital of Lower Canada and enjoyed more
self-rule following the passage of this act. The city's industry
began to grow, and by the early 1800s it was the third largest port
city in North America.
Wikipedia.org
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues What I can't understand is why MMY would reverse his own wise policy to dress his minions in business suits when speaking to the public. The Raja get up should be like formal military dress, used only for ceremonies at group members only events. I think the old man has lost his marketing touch. He takes the biggest fools of the Movement and dresses them to their level. I see nothing wrong with that. Quite on the contrary it provides for wonderful entertainment :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hindu Temple in Atlanta - Video
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.t emple.cn WOW! Maybe Maharishi could take a lesson. This magnificent massive temple was built for only $19 million. I thought they said $91 million on the video. Regardless, assuming that the TMO could ever get their act together to actually build something of this magnitude, the decision to go ahead would be determined by how much they could charge for admittance. In a Suburb of Atlanta, a Temple Stops Traffic By BRENDA GOODMAN New York Times, July 5, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/274ege ATLANTA, July 4 As Ponce de Leon Avenue snakes eastward out of Atlanta into the suburbs, the groomed lawns, the painted brick colonials and the neighborhood parks designed by Frederick Law Olmsted give way to giant supermarkets, gas stations, strip malls and used- car dealerships with signs painted in several languages. Even the name of the road changes from Ponce, as it is known to in-towners, to the more utilitarian Lawrenceville Highway, helpfully alerting drivers who might be unfamiliar with Atlanta's suburban sprawl that they will eventually reach Lawrenceville. In the midst of this bleak assault to the senses is a novel building that is certain to grab motorists' attention, and perhaps even cause a few car accidents. Sitting like a wedding cake atop a mound of red clay in the suburb of Lilburn is the Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, a Hindu temple that shares an intersection with a Publix supermarket and a Walgreens pharmacy. The exterior is a confection of creamy hand-carved limestone and sparkling Italian Carrara marble. Pink sandstone decorates the interior spaces. When this building, topped with red-and-white flags to ward off evil, opens for worship in a few weeks, it will officially be one of the largest Hindu temples in the world. The main reaction in Lilburn, a town so conservative that it recently outlawed pastimes like pool, karaoke and trivia contests in establishments that serve alcohol an apparent effort to keep bars out has been puzzlement. I think people in that area didn't really understand what they were fixing to have there, said William Reynolds, principal architect at Smallwoods, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart, the firm that worked with Indian designers to build the mandir, a Sanskrit word for the place where the mind becomes still and the soul floats freely. The stone for the project was shipped piece by piece from India, where craftsmen had sculptured it into more than 500 designs including rosettes, leaves, feathers and lacy geometric patterns. The thousands of sections, ranging from five ounces to five tons, each with its own bar code, have been assembled like a giant jigsaw puzzle based on instructions for religious buildings written into scripture thousands of years old. Although the engineers said they had not counted the number of pieces they used, a mandir in London that served as a model for the Lilburn building required more than 26,000 individual parts. The price tag for the project, $19 million, has been kept down by the thousands of hours of volunteer labor donated by congregants of the BAPS Swaminarayan temple in Clarkston, Ga., who will move from a converted skating rink when the temple is completed in August. For more than two years homemakers and retirees have been polishing the stonework by hand and cooking for the construction workers. Hundreds of volunteers installed more than 50,000 plants for the landscaping. It comes from your inner heart, said a woman who insisted on being identified only as Minal because she said it would be unseemly to call attention to herself. The temple has inspired my 4-year-old to get up from his computer, and nothing can do that, she said. Every evening we are going to go down there to worship, and it's going to make a tremendous difference on our kids' brains. Inspirational though it may be, some locals feel that the temple might be more at home near the Ganges than the Rocky Food Mart. Mostly people are proud to have it here, said Jack Bolton, the mayor of Lilburn. But I've heard from a few who say it doesn't fit in with the character of anything else in the area. If it was a big Baptist church, I don't think anyone would have objected, he added. In many ways the architectural juxtaposition reflects the booming diversity of metropolitan Atlanta's neighborhoods. A survey conducted in the Atlanta area in 1985 found there were just 15 to 20 core Swaminarayan families here. Today there are about 900 regular members in metropolitan Atlanta and as many as 6,000 worshipers who flock here from other places on festival days. (Atlanta has one of the fastest-growing South Asian populations in the United States,
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're prolly right. The pompous ass vibe is more important in this video than the fascist vibe. Curtisdeltablues is prolly also right in his assessment of my take on the thing. But invincibilitystill seems the wrong word to choose if your intent is to communicate disallowing the birth of an enemy. Invincible means not conquerable, as the word comes from the Latin vincere or to conquer. It may seem a moot point---if you disallow the birth of an enemy, you are not conquerable because there is no enemy around anywhere who could do it. Still, word choice seems important to me, and this word is military in origin and import. This is even clearer in German, a language in which many words wear their etymologies on their sleeves, so to speak. Unbesiegbar in German is a much more clearly military term in German than it is in English. As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. Another problem...and I've seen this countless times over the years in the TMO: When TMO people lecture, such as what Rajah Kohoutek Emanuelle was doing, and are, in effect representing Maharishi, they are not only using his choice words, such as invincibility but they also mimic the WAY MMY speaks and, often, his CADENCE. What I mean by that is that if you watch Emanuelle when he repeats invincibility over and over again (this is one of the things that really bugged some audience members), doesn't that remind you of how MMY often delivers a speech? So, to me, it sounded like the schmuck was emulating MMY but, of course, the only one who can get away with doing MMY is MMY himself...others come off as buffoons, or worse. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: The audience reacted negatively because to them, the rhetoric of the TMO sounds just like Hitler style fascism. It's not just the word invincibility. It's the whole vibe of the thing. a No, they were fine with Lynch, and he was using the same rhetoric, just not that particular word. They quieted right down when Lynch took over the podium again; they were willing to hear what he had to say. They were reacting negatively to the *raja's* vibe; who wouldn't? (Not because his vibe is fascist, but because he's a pompous ass.) But that reaction didn't extend to Lynch even after the raja had blown it. I thought Lynch did a good job straightening out the misunderstanding. At least the audience seems to have realized the way they took it originally wasn't the way it was meant. What puzzles me is, the TMO has been using the word invincibility for many years. You'd think *somebody* in the German TMO would have pointed out the problem with the German term by now. It's like advocating states' rights or Jim Crow to an audience of African-Americans (only worse). Why didn't the raja dude know that, if he's German himself? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chopra's Intent blog
authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: snip Conceptually is broad enough that it could mean anything. And you only threw in the whole conceptual thing in that last post because you needed an out for your initial bullshit statement. BTW, I don't recall that the TMO ever published for the public anything that described in detail the method of learning meditation or even checking. The only thing is MMY giving a description *conceptually.* And *why* has the TMO never published any such detailed description, Bhairitu? For the same reason no other guru does not even Sivananda where he gives it out conceptually. What we have here are people who know how it is given out discussing it. Also there are third party books where people talk about how they were given their TM as well as ones about other paths. There is nothing that secret about this standard method of imparting the mantra and for anyone to think so is just ignorance. But anyway anyone who has stepped outside of the movement knows that there is nothing unique about the way the mantra is given and it is old as time itself. Straw man. Nobody suggested there was anything unique about how the mantra is given. Didn't follow the thread did you? Though I can't blame you for that but it was Shemp who believes its unique and Shemp was a teacher so should know the ropes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 17, 2007, at 10:48 AM, new.morning wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: I was away most of yesterday and didn't notice until late last night that Off World was up to 44 posts. This may be opening up a can of worms, but I wonder if we should have a policy where I grant a special dispensation of extra posts if a particularly lively conversation is taking place between two people, as long as it's substantive and not just a flame war. Barry and Judy would not be eligible. I would vote strongly against this Rick, as being too arbitrary. And in the case of the debate you entered into, its not exactly stellar in terms of no personal attacks. To give personal degraders more posts seems counterproductive. As an alternative, I would consider raising the weekly limit to 50 IF similtaneously, we institute a ZERO TOLERANCE on over posting. Best idea yet. To give Off more of a forum for his gratuitous insults--entertaining though they can be--but deny Barry and Judy one for theirs seems totally arbitrary and unfair. This idea is one I could vote for. Sal First, where do you get these claims of gratuitous insults? Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense, used by 95% of the world to describe the current administration and their proud followers. (by the way...to any of you that think I am hiding behind the internet, I DO have these discussions in real life - only even MORE animated- with real americans who are far more likely to cause me damage than anyone on FFL in real life would (ex-army types who own 10 guns, carry one at all times, and go to machine gun practice for a hobby - seriously TRUE). They usually end up saying something like yea you're right, take the country...we fucked it up. Hope you can do a better job than we did Secondly, I agree. I should not be allowed more than 40 posts per week and neither should anyone else. 40 is the best number. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hindu Temple in Atlanta - Video
In the Bay Area there are a few. There is a Shiva temple in an old church in the community next door though I've never been there. I have been to the big temple in Livermore many times and have chatted with the priests there. I've even contributed towards a yagya there. The only dumb thing that happened there once when I was with a friend was a somewhat naive Indian (not a priest) lecturing me on Indian philosophy even after I had told him I taught TM and had even been to India. They can be that way sometimes (and he was telling me nothing new). For some reason my charisma resonates with Indians and I often become friends with local Indians the restaurant and grocery store proprietors, etc. new.morning wrote: Very cool. It would be nice to see that in every major city. I particularly like their openness, to anyone, to visit. Part temple, part cultural archive and educational resource -- for the whole community. Culminating in many festivals to which the whole community is invited. It becomes part of the whole community's flow to celebrate Divwali, etc. All of which I think does and will cultivate religious and cultural tolerance. Who could walk through that temple and not appreciate at greater depth a 5000 year old culture -- its arts, literature, philosophy, etc. Same would be wonderful with Islamic temples and Islamic festivals. And Buddhist, all their various schools. As well as Wiccan, and lesser known spiritual traditions. And inclusiveness could furthered for Christian and Jewish festivals. The key would be inclusiveness, explanatory and educational, and NO proselytizing. Every month in a major city, there might be one or two major spiritual festivals. Someone once said that the spiritual practice / religion of the future will be people drawing the best from each tradition -- and leaving the rest. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HYPERLINK http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.cn nhttp://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/26/iyer.georgia.hindu.temple.c nn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
Have you actually studied the history of Nazi Germany? You are right in thinking that whatever the people of a country are into, a Hitler could take it and run with it, but this is not what happened in the case of Nazi Germany. Do you actually know how carefully Goebbels designed his propaganda machine or how closely the educational system, the media, and the entertainment world were controlled and designed to create what I have described down to the aesthetic? a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're using the word fascist to mean merely authoritarian. I have something more specific in mind. Natural law was a concept very much alive in German fascism, for example, and it entailed a caste system, as does the whole raja thing. Fascism also meant the divine right of rulers, which the rajas definitely represent. In fact, von Papen, Hitler's vice chancellor and a Papal Chamberlain, wrote in the official Nazi newspaper that Hitler reinstated the divine right of rulers, which the French Revolution had undermined so deeply. There was a peacetime component to German fascism, not just the military aspect that we're all familiar with. And the ideology, as well as the aesthetic vibe, of the peacetime version was very similar to TMO's ideology and aesthetic vibe. They thought in terms of higher states of consciousness, for sure. They had nine of them, rather than MMY's eight. And, as is well known, Hitler meditated with the top brass of the SS. Nor was he the only one doing group meds. Angela, this is all just so silly it's impossible to address. *Whatever* the people of a country are into, a Hitler-type could take it and run with it. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
On Nov 17, 2007, at 12:33 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: As for the fascist vibe of the TMO, I stand by it. It's unmistakable here in Fairfield, which is crawling with bliss Nazis. You are on the ground in Fairfield, so you should know. But this is not what I have heard from friends who have visited recently. Oh, Angela's correct, Curtis. In fact, I just caught the last part of their goose-stepping demonstration this AM. :) Seriously, I don't know the place she's describing. Sounds more and more like the product of a fevered imagination to me. Although there is a group think consensus on some beliefs like nature support, I heard that Fairfield supports free thinking. At least outside the inner core or as it is known, the Raja's realm. Aren't there many different styles of thinking within a basically spiritual framework there? Personally I might have trouble with a constant undercurrent of spirituality assumptions. I live among recent immigrants because I love the stimulation of few intellectually shared assumptions. So why put up with those Winters if the intellectual climate isn't working for you? Good question. Sal
[FairfieldLife] The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
You're right. It is stupid to call them Nazi propaganda without making some further qualifications. They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. They do transcend those intentions, but if you look deeply enough, you also find a world view that isn't exactly espousing the ideals of democracy. a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Angela wrote:] You are also right about Wagner's music, but his librettos are fascist propaganda. I can tell the difference between divine music and shitty literature. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if you've ever read a Wagner libretto. You are right that they are not poetry of the highest quality, but completely wrong when you call them fascist propaganda. Quite the opposite. The Ring of the Nibelung is about the triumph of unconditional love over the unscrupulous, ruthless use of political and economic power. It is, if anything, anti-Fascist propaganda. In the last opera in the Ring, Goetterdaemmerung, or The Twilight of the Gods, the Hitlerian prototypes--the gods of Valhalla and the Superman Siegfried--meet with utter destruction. Tristan and Isolde is about transcendental, eternal love. Parsifal is a Christian myth of redemption. The Flying Dutchman, Lohengrin, and Tannhauser have no significant political content. I'm also a Wagner fan, and this is absolutely correct. The idea that the librettos are fascist propaganda is profoundly ignorant. Wikipedia has an excellent, thoroughly documented article on Wagner and Nazism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies There's also a devastating critique on Amazon of a book claiming that Hitler got his ideas from Wagner: http://tinyurl.com/25wc7v [Angela wrote:] No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. History is a story that's not told by monotopical idiots (right Turquoise?), unless they're paid textbook writers. So in a situation like that, in which vastly different people tell vastly different stories about an enormous evil that humanity has just been through, and you think there is only one way to tell that story? That's what textbooks would have you believe, which is why they're so f--ing boring. Are you telling me (like a true fascist) that your way of seeing history is the only way? Well, actually, no, he's not, Angela. Here's what he was telling you: I don't know anyone else who would seriously argue for any similarities between the TMO and the Nazis. Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. Yes you caught me. I'll address some here: Americans are stupid, English are smart: This is case by case for me. Some Indians went to Canada to avoid being conquered: Yes, some of the ones who were not exterminated by the small pox infected blankets given to them by the British did flee to Canada. Americans did bad things to the Indians and many of them are poor: Yes Americans used the French support to get out from England's colonial rule: Yes we did. Americans are involved in a disaster in Iraq of our own making: Yes. England is not in a quagmire in Iraq now: You dumped Tony Blair over it and we will be done with GW soon enough. If you have forgotten England's role in war, I have not. Doug Henning would never play Vegas and I am foolish for suggesting that he would: No. Doug actually did play Vegas. You never did acknowledge that you were totally wrong about this. I would speculate why you were unable to do so but it would involve personal psycho-analysis which Off would never do...well not for a few more lines anyway. Everyone in America should be ashamed of being American because we we have done some bad things in the world: No, Americans can still be proud of their country's many accomplishments despite our mistakes. No country is all good or all bad. Off is right about everything and even knows what Curtis has or has not read, or where he has traveled without the use of his senses: Not so much. You are the one who likes to alienate a whole group of people...ie TM'rs... I have stated my opinion about MMY's teaching, where I disagree with him. Not all TM people are alienated by this. It is a personal choice to feel that way about my opinion. People with good intellectual boundaries can disagree without name calling. BTW I can think of only one person on this group who does not express views offensive to TB TM folks and your name is not on the shortlist. and now you are all hurt inside Uh oh: Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. I don't know you and quickly understood that you were on a soapbox rant that had nothing to do with me, so your calling me an idiot doesn't hurt me. OTH I call boorish behavior when I see it. when I (and 5.5 billion others on the planet ) ridicule american pride in their despotic regime. Glad to hear you are on the pulse of all 5.5 billion. Speaking only for myself, I can be proud of my country while deploring the same actions others find offensive. And I can do it without claiming that all the people in a country are dumb or idiots. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Anger? Lol, you're an idiot. I was not angry, just having fun giving dumb Americans a history lesson. It was fun for me, but as the loser in the history lesson you are obviously a sore loser, and have to call the winner of the history contest angry. Your name calling betrays your need to feel superior in invented contests. Winner of the history contest. Is that how you imagine it? Enjoy your fantasy award. But I am neither an idiot nor dumb and am not impressed with your history rant. I hear them all the time by self impressed dudes at the clubs where I play music. They, like you,have no idea how they sound to others. I was not angry for one second. Put that in your head and hold it for one year, maybe something will sink in and you might learn something from this history lesson at least. So it was just a conversation with yourself and I just got in the way? All I have learned from you is that having a conversation with you is annoying due to your need to puff up your self importance and bogus superiority with name calling. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT YET .I don't live in this countryI OWN IT. Now get out of our way. We are Borg...Resistance is futile. The joke doesn't hide your need to fabricate your superiority over strangers. How is that working for you? It makes your conversation rather boorish from this end. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
Oh Angela, you can do better than this. You say of Wagner's librettos, They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. Wagner died in 1883, before Hitler was even born, so how could Wagner possibly write operas with Nazi propaganda in mind? It's true that Wagner's music was used by the Nazis, and his Nazi-admiring family had a lot to do with that -- but not with the consent of Richard Wagner, who had been in his grave for 50 years when Hitler came to power! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. It is stupid to call them Nazi propaganda without making some further qualifications. They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. They do transcend those intentions, but if you look deeply enough, you also find a world view that isn't exactly espousing the ideals of democracy. a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Angela wrote:] You are also right about Wagner's music, but his librettos are fascist propaganda. I can tell the difference between divine music and shitty literature. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wonder if you've ever read a Wagner libretto. You are right that they are not poetry of the highest quality, but completely wrong when you call them fascist propaganda. Quite the opposite. The Ring of the Nibelung is about the triumph of unconditional love over the unscrupulous, ruthless use of political and economic power. It is, if anything, anti-Fascist propaganda. In the last opera in the Ring, Goetterdaemmerung, or The Twilight of the Gods, the Hitlerian prototypes--the gods of Valhalla and the Superman Siegfried--meet with utter destruction. Tristan and Isolde is about transcendental, eternal love. Parsifal is a Christian myth of redemption. The Flying Dutchman, Lohengrin, and Tannhauser have no significant political content. I'm also a Wagner fan, and this is absolutely correct. The idea that the librettos are fascist propaganda is profoundly ignorant. Wikipedia has an excellent, thoroughly documented article on Wagner and Nazism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies There's also a devastating critique on Amazon of a book claiming that Hitler got his ideas from Wagner: http://tinyurl.com/25wc7v [Angela wrote:] No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. History is a story that's not told by monotopical idiots (right Turquoise?), unless they're paid textbook writers. So in a situation like that, in which vastly different people tell vastly different stories about an enormous evil that humanity has just been through, and you think there is only one way to tell that story? That's what textbooks would have you believe, which is why they're so f--ing boring. Are you telling me (like a true fascist) that your way of seeing history is the only way? Well, actually, no, he's not, Angela. Here's what he was telling you: I don't know anyone else who would seriously argue for any similarities between the TMO and the Nazis. Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
On Nov 17, 2007, at 1:09 PM, off_world_beings wrote: First, where do you get these claims of gratuitous insults? Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense, used by 95% of the world to describe the current administration and their proud followers. Yeah, you got me there, Off. The idea that you were being insulting was clearly the by-product of some hallucinogen I took long ago. Let's see now... Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense... renegade bully schoolboys...Idiot ! ! !...You are complete idiots in America!...you're an idiot...dumb Americans...I've never said that to anyone you raving drunk...Go back the bottle...You're an idiot if you think that was not deliberate (but then you are an american) ... we are here to take over from you idiots. You have fucked up, And that's just a small sample of your latest and greatest hits :) Clearly I was wrong, Off--you couldn't post an insult if your life depended on it. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chopra's Intent blog
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: snip Conceptually is broad enough that it could mean anything. And you only threw in the whole conceptual thing in that last post because you needed an out for your initial bullshit statement. BTW, I don't recall that the TMO ever published for the public anything that described in detail the method of learning meditation or even checking. The only thing is MMY giving a description *conceptually.* And *why* has the TMO never published any such detailed description, Bhairitu? For the same reason no other guru does not even Sivananda where he gives it out conceptually. The following is from the International Sivananda Yoga Vedanta Center's page Meditation (Dhyana). The first seven steps have to do with regularity, time, space, asana, and detailed instructions for breathing. Then we get to meditation itself: 8. Allow the mind to wander at first. It will jump around, but will eventually become concentrated, along with the concentration of prana. 9. Don't force the mind to be still, as this will set in motion additional brain waves, hindering meditation. 10. Select a focal point on which the mind may rest. For people who are intellectual by nature, this may be the Ajna Chakra., the point between the eyebrows. For more emotional people, use the Anahata or Heart Chakra. Never change this focal point. 11. Focus on a neutral or uplifting object, holding the image in the place of concentration. If using a Mantra, repeat it mentally, and co- ordinate repetition with the breath. If you dont have a personalized Manta, use Om. Although mental repetition is stronger, the mantra may be repeted aloud if one becomes drowsy. Never change the Mantra. 12. Repetition will lead to pure thought, in which sound vibration merges with thought vibration, without awareness of meaning. Vocal repetition progresses through mental repetition to telepathic language, and from there to pure thought. 13. With practice, duality disappears and Samadhi, or the superconscious state, is reached. Do not become impatient, as this takes a long time. 14. In Samadhi one rests in the state of bliss in which the Knower, the Knowledge, and the Known become one. This is the superconcious state reached by mystics of all faiths and persuasions. http://www.sivananda.org/teachings/meditation/meditation.html And Sivananda is far from the only guru who has published or posted on the Web detailed instructions for his/her form of meditation. Here are two paragraphs on how to meditate from the book you cited to Shemp, Mind, Its Mysteries and Control: Sit in a lonely place on Padma, Siddha or Sukha Asana. Free yourself from all passions, emotions and impulses. Subjugate the senses. Withdraw the mind from objects. Now the mind will be calm, one- pointed, pure and subtle. With the help of this trained instrument, disciplined mind, contemplate on that one Infinite Self. Do not think of anything else. Do not allow any worldly thought to enter the mind. Do not allow the mind to think of any physical or mental enjoyment. When it indulges in these thoughts, give it a good hammering. Then it will move towards God. Just as the Ganga flows continuously towards the sea, thoughts of God should flow continuously towards the Lord. Just as oil, when poured from one vessel to another, flows in an unbroken, continuous stream, just as the harmonious sound produced from the ringing of bells falls upon the ear in a continuous stream, so also the mind should 'flow' towards God in one continuous stream. There must be a continuous divine Vritti-Pravaha, Svajatiya-Vritti- Pravaha, from the Sattvic mind towards God through continuous Sadhana. You must have a mental image of God or Brahman (concrete or abstract) before you begin to meditate. When you are a neophyte in meditation, start repeating some sublime Slokas or Stotras (hymns) for ten minutes as soon as you sit for meditation. This will elevate the mind. The mind can be easily withdrawn from the worldly objects. Then stop this kind of thinking also and fix the mind on one idea only by repeated and strenuous efforts. Then Nishtha will ensue. http://www.sivananda.com/MindMysteriesControl.htm#_VPID_35 Sorry, but this is obviously completely unlike TM in any number of ways. It isn't even conceptually like TM. Do not allow any worldly thought to enter the mind? Fix the mind on one idea only by repeated and strenuous efforts? Please. snip But anyway anyone who has stepped outside of the movement knows that there is nothing unique about the way the mantra is given and it is old as time itself. Straw man. Nobody suggested there was anything unique about how the mantra is given. Didn't follow the thread did you? I've read every post
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you actually studied the history of Nazi Germany? Not formally in a classroom, but I've done quite a bit of reading about it. You are right in thinking that whatever the people of a country are into, a Hitler could take it and run with it, but this is not what happened in the case of Nazi Germany. Do you actually know how carefully Goebbels designed his propaganda machine or how closely the educational system, the media, and the entertainment world were controlled and designed to create what I have described down to the aesthetic? a How is this different from what I said that you just agreed with, Angela? Nazism took advantage of what the German people were involved in and institutionalized it, based their propaganda on it, distorting it wildly in the process. That could have been done with *any* cultural phenomenon to end up with a fascistic dictatorship.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 17, 2007, at 1:09 PM, off_world_beings wrote: First, where do you get these claims of gratuitous insults? Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense, used by 95% of the world to describe the current administration and their proud followers. Yeah, you got me there, Off. The idea that you were being insulting was clearly the by-product of some hallucinogen I took long ago. Let's see now... Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense... renegade bully schoolboys...Idiot ! ! !...You are complete idiots in America!...you're an idiot...dumb Americans...I've never said that to anyone you raving drunk...Go back the bottle...You're an idiot if you think that was not deliberate (but then you are an american) ... we are here to take over from you idiots. You have fucked up, And that's just a small sample of your latest and greatest hits :) Clearly I was wrong, Off--you couldn't post an insult if your life depended on it. Sal Well, maybe thats just a Scottish friendly greeting. Cultural differences -- sort of reminds me of the last scene in Barcelona -- the three (or two) american guys end up marrying spanish woemen, and moving back to the states. Ted: You see, that's one of the great things about getting involved with someone from another country. You can't take it personally. What's really terrific is that when we act in ways which might objectively seem asshole-ish or, or, incredibly annoying, they don't get upset at all. They don't take it personally. They just assume it's some national characteristic. And for non-American views of the states: Marta: Ramon is very persuasive, and he painted a terrible picture of what it would be like for her to live the rest of her life in America, with all of its crime, consumerism, and vulgarity. All those loud, badly dressed, fat people watching their eighty channels of television and visiting shopping malls. The plastic throw-everything-away society with its notorious violence and racism. And finally, the total lack of culture. And the Scots certainly have a lot of things going for them: Haggis is a traditional Scottish dish. There are many recipes, most of which have in common the following ingredients: sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally boiled in the animal's stomach for approximately an hour. Or, perhaps Off is demonstrating, for all of our benefit, that projection is well and alive.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
Off, you are being uncharacteristically rude for a Brit. I agree with you that America is going down a slippery slope towards fascism. I've seen it coming since the mid sixties when there wasn't a cloud in the sky, and there was no way you could ever have said anything like it to an American back then. Even now, it is difficult. That's part of the picture. What makes you think Americans can help what's happening any more than Germans could? And Bush leaving will not stop the process till it has run its course. And Curtis, just because I see something coming doesn't mean I'm afraid of it. I take what precautions I can, but I tend to be fearless to a fault according to my friends. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. Yes you caught me. I'll address some here: Americans are stupid, English are smart: This is case by case for me. Some Indians went to Canada to avoid being conquered: Yes, some of the ones who were not exterminated by the small pox infected blankets given to them by the British did flee to Canada. Americans did bad things to the Indians and many of them are poor: Yes Americans used the French support to get out from England's colonial rule: Yes we did. Americans are involved in a disaster in Iraq of our own making: Yes. England is not in a quagmire in Iraq now: You dumped Tony Blair over it and we will be done with GW soon enough. If you have forgotten England's role in war, I have not. Doug Henning would never play Vegas and I am foolish for suggesting that he would: No. Doug actually did play Vegas. You never did acknowledge that you were totally wrong about this. I would speculate why you were unable to do so but it would involve personal psycho-analysis which Off would never do...well not for a few more lines anyway. Everyone in America should be ashamed of being American because we we have done some bad things in the world: No, Americans can still be proud of their country's many accomplishments despite our mistakes. No country is all good or all bad. Off is right about everything and even knows what Curtis has or has not read, or where he has traveled without the use of his senses: Not so much. You are the one who likes to alienate a whole group of people...ie TM'rs... I have stated my opinion about MMY's teaching, where I disagree with him. Not all TM people are alienated by this. It is a personal choice to feel that way about my opinion. People with good intellectual boundaries can disagree without name calling. BTW I can think of only one person on this group who does not express views offensive to TB TM folks and your name is not on the shortlist. and now you are all hurt inside Uh oh: Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. I don't know you and quickly understood that you were on a soapbox rant that had nothing to do with me, so your calling me an idiot doesn't hurt me. OTH I call boorish behavior when I see it. when I (and 5.5 billion others on the planet ) ridicule american pride in their despotic regime. Glad to hear you are on the pulse of all 5.5 billion. Speaking only for myself, I can be proud of my country while deploring the same actions others find offensive. And I can do it without claiming that all the people in a country are dumb or idiots. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Anger? Lol, you're an idiot. I was not angry, just having fun giving dumb Americans a history lesson. It was fun for me, but as the loser in the history lesson you are obviously a sore loser, and have to call the winner of the history contest angry. Your name calling betrays your need to feel superior in invented contests. Winner of the history contest. Is that how you imagine it? Enjoy your fantasy award. But I am neither an idiot nor dumb and am not impressed with your history rant. I hear them all the time by self impressed dudes at the clubs where I play music. They, like you,have no idea how they sound to others. I was not angry for one second. Put that in your head and hold it for one year, maybe something will sink in and you might learn something from this history lesson at least. So it was just a conversation with yourself and I just got in the way? All I have learned from you is that having a conversation with you is annoying due to your need to puff up your self importance and bogus superiority with name calling. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT YET .I don't live in this countryI OWN IT.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
On Nov 17, 2007, at 2:45 PM, new.morning wrote: And that's just a small sample of your latest and greatest hits :) Clearly I was wrong, Off--you couldn't post an insult if your life depended on it. Sal Well, maybe thats just a Scottish friendly greeting. That's the ticket. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. It is stupid to call them Nazi propaganda without making some further qualifications. They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. No, they were not written with that in mind, Angela, not even partially. Wagner died in 1883, for pete's sake. They do transcend those intentions, but if you look deeply enough, you also find a world view that isn't exactly espousing the ideals of democracy. a Wagner was no Thomas Jefferson, certainly, but he wasn't even a proto-fascist; he was a Romantic and an idealist. And are you going to respond to this request? Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
You may keep your opinion. I shall keep mine. I have studied Nazi Germany formally and exhaustively. Moreover, I am well prepared for scholarship and scholarly research with years of training. I've also talked with scores of people who've been through it. A New Age, or, more specifically a Vedic component, was an aspect of German fascism and was part of its design from its inception in the Thule Society. It wasn't only Vedic, however. Meister Eckhart was big, and so was Buddhism. These things diverted attention from the political arena, so that the dictator's noose tightened too much before anyone could really notice enough to object. I've noticed that folks in this forum like to call one another stupid without actually knowing anything in any depth about what's being discussed. It is possible to question and challenge ideas without resorting to words like silly and stupid. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you actually studied the history of Nazi Germany? Not formally in a classroom, but I've done quite a bit of reading about it. You are right in thinking that whatever the people of a country are into, a Hitler could take it and run with it, but this is not what happened in the case of Nazi Germany. Do you actually know how carefully Goebbels designed his propaganda machine or how closely the educational system, the media, and the entertainment world were controlled and designed to create what I have described down to the aesthetic? a How is this different from what I said that you just agreed with, Angela? Nazism took advantage of what the German people were involved in and institutionalized it, based their propaganda on it, distorting it wildly in the process. That could have been done with *any* cultural phenomenon to end up with a fascistic dictatorship. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
There are no historians who see the similarities between the TMO and fascism that I know of. The TMO is just too small for historians to notice it. Maybe at some later date, there will be some more formal investigation of this idea. I do know, however, that I am by no means the only observer who has noticed what I'm noticing, and I have discussed this with people in and out of the TMO in Germany, in Greece, in India, and in the U.S. In China nobody gives a shit. Now, the fact that there are similarities is not that hard to see. It's really obvious if you have a more than cursory understanding of German fascism. But seeing the similarities says nothing whatsoever just yet about what it all means. I do not yet know enough to even begin to hazard a guess in that territory. Seeing the similarities doesn't mean that I am necessarily making a blanket negative judgment about the TMO. It's true that I don't like some of what I see in the TMO that I am calling fascist, but that's not a total dismissal of the whole thing. I have already said that TM has done much good and I agree with Vaj that MMY is a great man even if his rajas are pompous asses. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. It is stupid to call them Nazi propaganda without making some further qualifications. They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. No, they were not written with that in mind, Angela, not even partially. Wagner died in 1883, for pete's sake. They do transcend those intentions, but if you look deeply enough, you also find a world view that isn't exactly espousing the ideals of democracy. a Wagner was no Thomas Jefferson, certainly, but he wasn't even a proto-fascist; he was a Romantic and an idealist. And are you going to respond to this request? Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are no historians who see the similarities between the TMO and fascism that I know of. Oh, OK. Perhaps you miswrote when you said this, then: No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. That's what I was asking about. snip Now, the fact that there are similarities is not that hard to see. What seems difficult for you to see is that the similarities, such as they may be, are *irrelevant*.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I've noticed that folks in this forum like to call one another stupid without actually knowing anything in any depth about what's being discussed. Heck, some folks on this forum even like to call Wagner's librettos stupid without actually knowing anything in any depth about them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Say what you will about it, Viagra works Speaks the voice of experience...
[FairfieldLife] ANOTHER New Idea For Posting Limits (Re: Jim Done)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds to me as if Edg got another rejection letter from a publisher. If he ever wrote anything and sent it off, that is. This one single post pretty much sums up what kind of person Barry is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
I have spoken to historians, of course. That doesn't mean any of them have published their work. I understood your question to mean published work. This was a misunderstanding. authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are no historians who see the similarities between the TMO and fascism that I know of. Oh, OK. Perhaps you miswrote when you said this, then: No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. That's what I was asking about. snip Now, the fact that there are similarities is not that hard to see. What seems difficult for you to see is that the similarities, such as they may be, are *irrelevant*. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
Whether the similarities are relevant or not is something that would depend on an analysis of their meaning which you and I have not done. a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are no historians who see the similarities between the TMO and fascism that I know of. Oh, OK. Perhaps you miswrote when you said this, then: No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. That's what I was asking about. snip Now, the fact that there are similarities is not that hard to see. What seems difficult for you to see is that the similarities, such as they may be, are *irrelevant*. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
FWIW, with reference to the thread title: While Wagner's librettos don't stand on their own as poetry, they were never intended to. Wagner's ideal of opera was what he called the Gesamtkunstwerk, the together-art-work, or synthesis of the arts, in which all the various artistic elements--words, music, drama, stagecraft, etc.--were integrated into one unified, inseparable whole. In particular, he was preoccuped with the musical settings of the words, in which the words and the music illustrate, amplify, and enrich each other. Words that seem flat and even trite on a page become extraordinarily expressive when they're sung to his vocal lines; likewise, you don't walk out of the opera house humming the tunes, because they lose most of their meaning without the words. Words and music are so intimately intertwined you don't end up with much if you consider them separately.
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Poverty in the News again
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Yawn, resorting to personal psycho-analysis in order to avoid the issues I brought up. Yes you caught me. I'll address some here: Americans are stupid, English are smart: This is case by case for me. And the Scots are better than both of them. Some Indians went to Canada to avoid being conquered: Yes, some of the ones who were not exterminated by the small pox infected blankets given to them by the British did flee to Canada. Sorry about the smallpox mistake during an act of compassion. Just goes to show one cannot control the course of karma, one must meditate instead, just like Maharishi said. Americans did bad things to the Indians and many of them are poor: Yes Americans used the French support to get out from England's colonial rule: Yes we did. At last you agree with me. Americans used the French (and a fortune of their money) in order to keep the slave trade alive in their favor, and avoid the British ruling that it was illegal to keep a slave on British soil. Americans are involved in a disaster in Iraq of our own making: Yes. England is not in a quagmire in Iraq now: You dumped Tony Blair over it and we will be done with GW soon enough. If you have forgotten England's role in war, I have not. Unfortunately, ytou still don't get it. The Brits, even though they were wrong to be in the war, can get out. The Americans can never get out, no matter who is in power (except MAYBE Ron Paul). It is a quagmire for US. Which means my Britsh pounds will continue to rise in value over and above the 2.1 dollars they amount to now. Still, this quagmire you are in is certainly not your personal fault, and the Brits were wrong to be involved in any way. Doug Henning would never play Vegas and I am foolish for suggesting that he would: No. Doug actually did play Vegas. You never did acknowledge that you were totally wrong about this. I would speculate why you were unable to do so but it would involve personal psycho-analysis which Off would never do...well not for a few more lines anyway. Actually, I am the one that said he would be playing side-shows in Vegas if he wasn't with MMY. I don't know why you are making this claim above. Everyone in America should be ashamed of being American because we we have done some bad things in the world: No, Americans can still be proud of their country's many accomplishments despite our mistakes. No country is all good or all bad. True, but statistically speaking America has one of the worst human rights records in the developed world. Guantanamo Bay, US military regime in Iraq killing and terrorising innocents, worst polluters in the world, companies like Monstnto and others that exploit whole countries and governments to get what they want. However, I agree Britain is not much better. I don't know you and quickly understood that you were on a soapbox rant that had nothing to do with me, so your calling me an idiot doesn't hurt me. OTH I call boorish behavior when I see it. I agree. I am a boor. So? I also call boorish behaviour when I see it, and when you said how proud you were of your despotic country, I called you on it. Name one thing you are proud of? (actually don't bother, there is a long history lesson thaat will need to be told if you do) OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Solution to Overposting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 17, 2007, at 1:09 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Yeah, you got me there, Off. The idea that you were being insulting was clearly the by-product of some hallucinogen I took long ago. Let's see now... Calling an american who is proud of their despotic regime 'stupid' is just common sense... renegade bully schoolboys...Idiot ! ! !...You are complete idiots in America!...you're an idiot...dumb Americans...I've never said that to anyone you raving drunk...Go back the bottle...You're an idiot if you think that was not deliberate (but then you are an american) ... we are here to take over from you idiots. Nice. I agree completely with all of it. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Lecture in Berlin Turns Into Chaos
There is a big difference between calling a person you are sharing a forum with stupid and calling a libretto stupid. I do not like Wagner's librettos. I am aware that he was into Gesamtkunstwerk, and I have read all of them. Hell, I've even gone to see some of them performed at the Bayreuth Wagner festival when I was at the university there. You need to reserve tickets years in advance, but I have a fairly close friend who sang the female lead in many of them, and so I got in free. You can't really assume that I don't know what I'm talking about on the basis of a few emails, especially when you've already decided that I'm silly. a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I've noticed that folks in this forum like to call one another stupid without actually knowing anything in any depth about what's being discussed. Heck, some folks on this forum even like to call Wagner's librettos stupid without actually knowing anything in any depth about them. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The stupidity of Wagnerian librettos
Yes, you are definitely right about Wagner's dates. But his works were used for Nazi propaganda because they lent themselves to that so easily. But I should add, too, that though fascism is possible in any country, the flavor that it took in Germany was obviously distinctly German, and it drew from what was Germanic, in its own history. The similarity of German fascism with the TMO is also based on this Germanic history. They thought of themselves as Aryans after all. The German language is clearly an Aryan language. I am no expert on Wagner, however, and am in part repeating what I have heard other German critics say about the librettos. We had to read the librettos in high school, and the teacher was definitely a left over Nazi who milked them for all their fascist content that he could. It was there to get out. Now, it is very possible that an American reader would not see any of that. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh Angela, you can do better than this. You say of Wagner's librettos, They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. Wagner died in 1883, before Hitler was even born, so how could Wagner possibly write operas with Nazi propaganda in mind? It's true that Wagner's music was used by the Nazis, and his Nazi-admiring family had a lot to do with that -- but not with the consent of Richard Wagner, who had been in his grave for 50 years when Hitler came to power! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. It is stupid to call them Nazi propaganda without making some further qualifications. They were used as Nazi propaganda, and they were written with that at least partially in mind. They do transcend those intentions, but if you look deeply enough, you also find a world view that isn't exactly espousing the ideals of democracy. a authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Angela wrote:] You are also right about Wagner's music, but his librettos are fascist propaganda. I can tell the difference between divine music and shitty literature. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wonder if you've ever read a Wagner libretto. You are right that they are not poetry of the highest quality, but completely wrong when you call them fascist propaganda. Quite the opposite. The Ring of the Nibelung is about the triumph of unconditional love over the unscrupulous, ruthless use of political and economic power. It is, if anything, anti-Fascist propaganda. In the last opera in the Ring, Goetterdaemmerung, or The Twilight of the Gods, the Hitlerian prototypes--the gods of Valhalla and the Superman Siegfried--meet with utter destruction. Tristan and Isolde is about transcendental, eternal love. Parsifal is a Christian myth of redemption. The Flying Dutchman, Lohengrin, and Tannhauser have no significant political content. I'm also a Wagner fan, and this is absolutely correct. The idea that the librettos are fascist propaganda is profoundly ignorant. Wikipedia has an excellent, thoroughly documented article on Wagner and Nazism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies There's also a devastating critique on Amazon of a book claiming that Hitler got his ideas from Wagner: http://tinyurl.com/25wc7v [Angela wrote:] No connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany? Well, that depends on which historians you ask. History is a story that's not told by monotopical idiots (right Turquoise?), unless they're paid textbook writers. So in a situation like that, in which vastly different people tell vastly different stories about an enormous evil that humanity has just been through, and you think there is only one way to tell that story? That's what textbooks would have you believe, which is why they're so f--ing boring. Are you telling me (like a true fascist) that your way of seeing history is the only way? Well, actually, no, he's not, Angela. Here's what he was telling you: I don't know anyone else who would seriously argue for any similarities between the TMO and the Nazis. Angela, let's see some references to historians who claim there's a connection between the TMO and Nazi Germany. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
