[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Is Not A Religion Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It's very easy to dismiss experiences you haven't had on the grounds that the mind can fool you and make patterns out of nothing. But it's not very intellectually honest. In fact, it sounds a lot as though that conclusion is your mind making a pattern that you're more comfortable with. I believe that there was mass hysteria in the room. It is hardly intellectually dishonest to come to that opinion. Your description *perfectly* matches the Fiuggi Twitchers, years before the siddhis ever appeared. At that course, a number of people (probably a dozen or so) began having uncontrollable twitches and spasms. We're not talking simple muscle tics, we're talking their arms and legs flailing about, Tourette's Syndrome as they began shouting out random words, etc. And this was both during meditation and out of it. These people were out of control. Maharishi's approach to the problem was to ask them to all sit together in a group at the front of the lecture hall. And voila, the minute they all came together, all of the twitches would begin to escalate. Arms shooting out like Dr. Strangelove's shout- ing out things in the middle of one of his talks, that sort of thing. It was *clearly* a mass hysteria experience. I felt exactly the same thing with the siddhis, first on my course (where, to be honest, there was very little acting out) and later, in the L.A. flying room, a groady warehouse in West L.A. packed with foam and dirty sheets. It got so bad that many people, including myself, just stopped going, because the moaners and groaners and twitchers clearly fed off each other, and off the attention they were getting. They made it appear as if something good was happening, when in my opinion they were just indulging. I have read about suggestibility. I have read about cognition. I have met highly suggestible people. I have met people who unequivocally made cognitive errors about experiences. I draw my opinions based upon my knowledge and experience. It has nothing to do with comfort or discomfort. I acknowledge that these are opinions, not fact, and thus may be wrong. I say that I have yet to be convinced that my opinions are not correct. This hardly intellectually dishonest. I agree. Intellectually dishonest was Judy pretending that the carload of bullshit she trotted out to explain her concern for you was real. I've never heard so much shit spouted by one individual in my life. That is why I parodied her language and suggested five or six colonics. Why oh why couldn't she just have been HONEST, as she claims to be, and said, Ok, Curtis...you got me. I suggested that Ruth was having a break- down of some kind and needed to seek psychological help BECAUSE i DON'T LIKE HER. She is smarter than I am and she gets more attention on this forum than I do. I can't STAND that, and have to lash out when it happens. THAT would have been refreshing honesty. Instead, she shoveled out lines and lines and lines of obvious bullshit, and my bet is that everyone who plowed through it wearing hip boots came out the other side believing EXACTLY what I wrote above, not what she wrote.
[FairfieldLife] Re: independent TM teachers
Good work, keep it up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.f...@... wrote: After a long pause I happened to look up the topics discussed in FAIRFIELD LIFE. Sometimes, INDEPENDENT TM TEACHERS were a topic. The teachers of the International Network of iTM teachers can be found on: http://www.tm-independent.de/TM_independent/itm-lehrer.html I added an English page on my German website: http://www.tm-independent.de/html/tm_independent.html All iTM teachers are authorized teachers of TM. They teach in the traditional manner (7 steps, Puja etc.). In Germany, only the following exact set of terms is a trademark of TMO: TM Transcendental Meditation nach Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. The single terms TM, Transcendental Meditation, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi cannot be and are not protected. They can be used freely by everybody. Independent TM teachers are free to name the technique they are teaching TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION. They are free to say that they are trained by MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI etc. What concerns the important question of quality of teaching, we could show, that 47% of the people who were initiated into TM by teachers of the TMO, exhibit a strong tendency to engage in SELF-DECEPTION and IMPRESSION MANAGEMENT when assessing their individual experiences as TM-practitioners via a psychological questionnaire. The article is in German and was published 2002 in a German professional psychological journal and may be downloaded from: http://www.tm-independent.de/ReporPsychArtikel2.pdf Due to the high initiation fees since about one decade the rate of initiations by TMO teachers has dropped to almost nil. This resulted in a serious deficit of teaching experience and training routine for almost all TMO-teachers. That is why TM during the last decade is almost exclusively taught by independent TM-teachers (iTM) outside and independent of the official TMO. Initiation by TMO-recertified teachers cannot be recommended under those circumstances. Till the end of 2008 we had an inofficial list of TM teachers allied to the TMO and recertified, mostly friends from old times. They wanted to initiate and they did not want to charge that much money but they were afraid to come out in public as independent. So we sent them those people, who were looking for an iTM teacher in their region and they initiated them without delivering their addresses or their money to TMO. So there are independents outside iTM, too. A number of recertified teachers on and off teach on their own secretly charging the old fees. TM teachers who want to teach TM to people on an independent basis are welcome in the iTM network. Jai Guru dev Love to all ... Theo Fehr
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
So is that it then? All the hullaballo, raised hopes and bellicosity come down to one concert by a few ageing rock stars and err.. that's it. Next week it'll have been forgotten, in month's time initiations will be back were they were, and in a year's time the begging bowl will be out again for the kids --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQ (Ringo Starr, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - Boys) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MA (Eddie Vedder - Indifference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejs (Eddie Vedder - Under Pressure) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08AQY_0cAcc (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gfHu2j5Uc (Eddie Vedder - Up To You Now) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkaTqXd_gY (Paul McCartney Friends - Cosmically Conscious) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVD3_U3Np3I (Ringo, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - It Don't Come Easy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtO_fBNpvZY (Ringo with Eddie Vedder and Crow - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0 (Eddie Vedder - Guaranteed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxg (Eddie Vedder - Rise) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8 (Eddie Vedder - Arc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziLU-PPDR8 (Paul McCartney - Can't Buy Me Love) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0gfeature=channel_page feature=channel_page (Paul McCartney - Lady Madonna) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOt5YmPwRg (Howard Stern) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvUfeature=channel feature=channel (Jerry Seinfeld) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ghWms8hVg (Ringo Starr) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduqOkbVB8g (Paul McCartney - Baby you can drive my car)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Growing Wingnut Mob Militia Mentality
Elections really work well don't they? Just like the 2000 and 2004 elections. Elections tend to be part of the illusion of a democracy. 2008 went pretty well. If it had gone to McCain and Palin then the repubs would have gotten the idea that they could get away with anything, that elections didn't matter and they had a right to rule. Once a group of people get that idea only trouble follows. The simple fact that there is a way to boot out bad rulers, even if it is imperfect, keeps rulers on notice not to get ideas about divinely ordained leaders. It's sad that the TMO doesn't have a similar way to deal with bad leaders.
[FairfieldLife] The *definition* of intellectual dishonesty
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. The word dishonesty is loaded and is important when looking at this issue. Wikipedia gives a fair description of intellectual dishonesty... Forget Wikipedia. I present my own definition of intellectual dishonesty below: First, Ruth writes Judy off as a Bad Bet: Well, I am sure you are having fun engaging me. Because I don't like you and would rather not be a game for you, I'll sign off for now and go back to ignoring you. Ta. Ruth is *clearly* making a statement here. She is saying in no uncertain terms that she wants to have nothing further to do with Judy Stein. And how does Judy Stein *react* to this? By snipping the quote above to pretend it never existed, and then following up in two different posts with line after line after line of taunts aimed at trying to get Ruth to continue arguing with her: We'll have to, um, agree to disagree about whether it's intellectually honest. Taunt #1. In other words, I persist in calling you intellectually dishonest. It's simply too easy to relegate reports of experiences that don't fit into your worldview to cognitive error or suggestion. (If you can *prove* that they are, that's a different story. Taunt #2. I'm daring you to 'prove' something we both know cannot be proved. Yes, really. I wouldn't wish what I was afraid you were feeling on anybody, because I've been through that level of despair (albeit in a different context) myself. Taunt #3. Repeat the claim that Ruth is in a state of despair. Yes, it's my OPINION that your OPINION is intellectually dishonest. Taunt #4. Call Ruth intellectually dishonest again. That involves so many assumptions on your part that there could be no reasonable discussion with you on the issue. Which assumptions you'll regretfully decline to state. Taunt #5. The olde You're too cowardly to keep debating with me routine. Do you not see how insulting you sound? I did my due diligence Yes, you've already made that assertion at least twice now. Taunt #6. The olde I piss on your 'due diligence' because you won't keep arguing with me routine. We are not talking fact here. We are talking opinions and impressions. Yes, as I said, it's my impression that your opinion is intellectually dishonest. Taunt #7. Repeat the original taunt. You seem to be reading more into what I am saying than what I said. Such as? I note that you've cleverly avoided addressing the basis for my objection. Taunt #8. Ignore COMPLETELY that Ruth has said that she wants nothing more to do with Judy and ask a question of her. Then taunt her by implying that by failing to answer it she is cleverly avoiding addressing the basis for her objection. skipping a couple more taunts, to... I never said voluntary. Certainly the noises can be involuntary. That is the nature of hysteria. Duh. Oh, I see. We seem to have a definitional problem, then. I don't suppose you'd care to define what you mean by hysteria. Taunt #10. Ask another question of the person who has just said she wants nothing to do with you. Again, imply that she's being somehow cowardly to want to avoid get- ting shit on her by associating with shit. You express no respect for me whatsoever so any professed empathy is suspect. So you have to respect somebody before you are able to empathize with their pain? Do you believe that's a universal human trait? Taunt #11. Ask two more questions of the person who has just written you off as a Bad Bet. Standard Judy fare. The more I read you the more I have the impression that you and Turq are alike. He pokes and prods you, not indicating that he cares at all about you and the negative effect he has on you. Oh, he cares very much indeed. He'd be devastated if he knew he had no negative effect on me. Taunt #12. Throw in the obligatory bash Barry comment, because it inflates Judy's fantasies about him feeling devastated whereas she feels no negative effect. That's why she had to say something, right? :-) You poke and prod others also without a care of how you come off to others and effect others. Have I hurt your feelings, Ruth? Taunt #13. Hit Ruth with a final parting shot that most 13-year-old Jr. High School drama queens would be ashamed to use. THIS IS A BAD REMAKE OF A MOVIE WE HAVE ALL SEEN TOO MANY TIMES. THIS IS WHAT JUDY STEIN **DOES** EVERY TIME SOMEONE WRITES HER OFF. It's an ego game. The individual taunts mean nothing. Judy doesn't give a damn about any of them, or about the supposed answers she's supposedly waiting for if the taunts work. The ONLY important thing in this game is **THAT** the taunts work. It's all a desperate ploy to keep Ruth from writing Judy off as a Bad Bet and exiting from the ongoing
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Ringo looks good for 69 years old. OffWorld I agree. Or maybe I am getting old. ;) The clips I saw did not have the best sound quality so I can't speak to the voices. Mike Love still makes my want to gag though. Too smarmy. There are many, MANY stories of Love's smarminess. He used his so-called spritituality to get laid with as many TMing women as he could get hold of. Sounds like a typical rock star. Hmmm, that reminds me of some others. Bevan of course, not to mention MMY! So Bevan and MMY both are known to sleep with hundreds, if not thousands, of women, and have them line up outside their dressing room by the dozens so they can pick their favorites for the night? Those are your words Lawson, not mine. Hundreds? I doubt it. In MMY's case I would say the more accurate estimate would be 10 or 12. Hagelin? I have no idea other than the anecdotal evidence that has been reported many times here. Clearly, you don't like the message so you inflate it to absurd levels to better dismiss the thought. That's fine I suppose. speaking of inflating to absurd levels, you were the one who 'suggested that Mike Love's behavior was smarmy, presumably compared to all the other promiscious rock stars, and then suggested that MMY's behavior was in the same league.
[FairfieldLife] Re: independent TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.f...@... wrote: The article is in German and was published 2002 in a German professional psychological journal and may be downloaded from: http://www.tm-independent.de/ReporPsychArtikel2.pdf Die Auto- ren führen die gröÃeren Effekte hypothetisch auf den geringeren Grad von Anstrengung in der TM im Ver- gleich mit anderen Techniken zurück. Konzentrative Meditationsmethoden hatten einen signifikant geringe- ren Effekt als Progressive Relaxation. [!]
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Is Not A Religion Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: Noisy flying rooms were the norm for a long time until one day Marshy happened to be walking past the one at Seelisberg (I think it was) and later asked what all the noise was about as YF should be done silently. After that, it was. Easy as that. Clearly, expectations of the type of behaviour expected have a part to play in this. I was hoping that someone would weigh in on this. I remembered the incident having been mentioned, but couldn't remember the details, and Yahoo Search is not working for me. THIS is the story that makes mass hysteria the only plausible explanation for such public displays of idiocy. The same thing finally happened in Fiuggi, after the course leaders threatened to send the twitchers home and not make them teachers. Suddenly most of the twitching stopped or, if it was still present, was suppressed and no longer put on display as if something good was happening. That's why I use the word indulging when referring to the people who do this. It's just like coming back to the mantra. If they have the ability to NOT indulge in it (it being either pursuing thoughts in meditation rather than coming back to the mantra or barking/ grunting/shouting/twitching/making an ass of yourself on the foam), then the phenomenon is clearly a candidate for mass hysteria. If when the mass hysteria is no longer indulged by those in power it suddenly stops, then it never needed to be indulged in the first place. I think that the ultimate source of such phen- omena can be found in a fundamental piece of dogma that most TMers bought into during the three days of checking and have never examined since to see if it was true: TM is 100% life- supporting. This, in my opinion, is complete and utter bull- shit. It is used as a thought-stopper to explain away negative physical and emotional side effects of TM or the siddhis as unstressing. It is also used as a club to bash anyone who complains of something that clearly is NOT life-supporting, like developing headaches in meditation. The response in those cases is to blame the victim: It's YOUR fault...you must be 'straining on the mantra.' The fault, IMO, lies in the dogma itself. and the blind acceptance of it by far too many otherwise intelligent people who would never stand for it if it were told to them, say, by the salesman who sold them the car that is now billowing smoke from its engine compartment. Can you imagine being told by that salesman, It's OK...it's just some normal unstressing on the part of the car. Take it easy, take it as it comes. Everything will be fine because it's just not *possible* for this to be an indicator that something is wrong with the car. The car is 100% perfect. And yet tens of thousands of people bought this hook, line, and sinker when TM teachers told it to them. They *accepted* physical ailments or physical discomfort as something good happening. They *accepted* emotional imbalance so strong that it destroyed marriages and friendships and lives and kept them in many cases from being able to hold a job in the real world. All of these things just HAD to somehow be *their* fault, for either having created the stress or bad karma that came out this way, or for being Off The Program. I'm pretty sure that most people here have met TMers who have turned indulging in these negative behaviors into almost a full-time *career*, and have excused their indulgence in emotional outbursts or rudeness for *decades* as unstressing. I call it what I think it is -- indulging. And indulging for the poorest of all possible reasons, to keep from ever examining that fundamentally flawed piece of dogma TM is 100% life-supporting. Belief in this crap is why Levi Butler is dead. Some schmuck of a Dean believed so strongly that nothing bad could ever happen in a 100% life- supporting environment that he allowed *murder* to happen. And he probably still works there as a Dean. THAT is how strongly TMers believe in this crap dogma.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Is Not A Religion Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It's very easy to dismiss experiences you haven't had on the grounds that the mind can fool you and make patterns out of nothing. But it's not very intellectually honest. In fact, it sounds a lot as though that conclusion is your mind making a pattern that you're more comfortable with. I believe that there was mass hysteria in the room. It is hardly intellectually dishonest to come to that opinion. Your description *perfectly* matches the Fiuggi Twitchers, years before the siddhis ever appeared. At that course, a number of people (probably a dozen or so) began having uncontrollable twitches and spasms. We're not talking simple muscle tics, we're talking their arms and legs flailing about, Tourette's Syndrome as they began shouting out random words, etc. And this was both during meditation and out of it. These people were out of control. Maharishi's approach to the problem was to ask them to all sit together in a group at the front of the lecture hall. And voila, the minute they all came together, all of the twitches would begin to escalate. Arms shooting out like Dr. Strangelove's shout- ing out things in the middle of one of his talks, that sort of thing. It was *clearly* a mass hysteria experience. I felt exactly the same thing with the siddhis, first on my course (where, to be honest, there was very little acting out) and later, in the L.A. flying room, a groady warehouse in West L.A. packed with foam and dirty sheets. It got so bad that many people, including myself, just stopped going, because the moaners and groaners and twitchers clearly fed off each other, and off the attention they were getting. They made it appear as if something good was happening, when in my opinion they were just indulging. Noisy flying rooms were the norm for a long time until one day Marshy happened to be walking past the one at Seelisberg (I think it was) and later asked what all the noise was about as YF should be done silently. After that, it was. Easy as that. Clearly, expectations of the type of behaviour expected have a part to play in this.
[FairfieldLife] 'Gorbachev=World Without Nuclear Weapons'
January 1986: Gorbachev Proposes Drastic Reductions in US, Soviet Nuclear
ArsenalssEL('1626004942-61819','61819') Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev,
following up on the successful “fireside summit” between himself and Ronald
Reagan (see November 16-19, 1985),
sends Reagan a letter calling for drastic reductions in US and Soviet
nuclear weapons. He proposes the complete eradication of all nuclear
weapons by the year 2000. He proposes cutting strategic arsenals by
half, banning space-based weapons outright, and halting nuclear
testing. He also proposes the complete dismantlement of all
intermediate-range systems in Europe—in essence accepting the US’s
“zero option” that was such a sticking point in earlier negotiations
(see September 1981 through November 1983). [Scoblic, 2008, pp. 139-140] One
administration hardliner, chief arms negotiator Edward Rowny (see May 1982 and
After),
warns Reagan that the Soviets are inherently untrustworthy and begs him
“not to go soft on this.” Instead of giving Rowny what he wants, Reagan
launches into what Rowny will later recall as a Martin Luther King-like
speech: “I have a dream. I have a dream of a world without nuclear
weapons. I want our children and grandchildren particularly to be free
of those weapons.” [Scoblic, 2008, pp. 143] Entity Tags: Mikhail Gorbachev,
Ronald Reagan, Edward Rowny Timeline Tags: US International Relations
[FairfieldLife] Re: independent TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.fehr@ wrote: What concerns the important question of quality of teaching, we could show, that 47% of the people who were initiated into TM by teachers of the TMO, exhibit a strong tendency to engage in SELF-DECEPTION and IMPRESSION MANAGEMENT when assessing their individual experiences as TM-practitioners via a psychological questionnaire. The article is in German and was published 2002 in a German professional psychological journal and may be downloaded from: http://www.tm-independent.de/ReporPsychArtikel2.pdf --- I don't suppose you could find an English translation Theo, this sounds rather interesting. Here is the Abstract: With 47% Ss of a cross-sectional study of 360 Ss practicing Transcendental Meditation administering the Freiburger Personality Inventory FPI a significantly reduced opennes compared to norm data was found. Though exhibiting only few noteworthy effects correlating with meditation practice measured in years the dissimulating Ss of the study described themselves as predominantly positive. The open meditators of the same study â the other roughly 50 % â showed significant constructive effects of long meditation practice in eight scales of the FPI â nervousness (reduced), depression (reduced), irritability (reduced), sociability (increased), equanimity (increased), inhibition (reduced), neuroticism (reduced) and robustness (increased). An adequate open or even self-critical attitude proves to be a prerequisite for successful meditation, which may be found with about 50% of meditators who have learned to meditate within the frame of programs offered by the TM-movement. With the remaining 47% of meditators expansive and grandiose-inflated cognitive ideation is an expression of self-deception and impression management resulting from partially considerable distortion of perception with regard to their ability to keep in touch with reality. To reduce the risk of self-deception we recommend for people interested in Transcendental Meditation to prefer free TM-teachers with additional psychotherapeutic qualification, who work independent of the TM-organisation. regards Theo
[FairfieldLife] Re: independent TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.f...@... wrote: What concerns the important question of quality of teaching, we could show, that 47% of the people who were initiated into TM by teachers of the TMO, exhibit a strong tendency to engage in SELF-DECEPTION and IMPRESSION MANAGEMENT when assessing their individual experiences as TM-practitioners via a psychological questionnaire. The article is in German and was published 2002 in a German professional psychological journal and may be downloaded from: http://www.tm-independent.de/ReporPsychArtikel2.pdf --- I don't suppose you could find an English translation Theo, this sounds rather interesting.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: Ringo looks good for 69 years old. OffWorld He looks amazing for 69. Vodka must have re-juvenating properties we aren't aware of! Good to hear yellow submarine again too. But I was struck by a thought while watching the video backdrop of the celebs in Rishikesh, they all have long hair. Funny how they got special dispensation for that when everyone else was ordered to have short back and sides. They must have been considered more important for some reason than everyone else. I wonder what that could've been ;-)
[FairfieldLife] 50 more video clips from Saturday's concert in New York City...for TM in schools:
More video clips from Saturday's concert in New York City...for TM in schools: http://news.google.com.br/news?pz=1ned=pt-BR_brhl=ptcf=allncl=1295165669http://news.google.com.br/news?pz=1ned=pt-BR_brhl=ptcf=allncl=1295165669 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQ (Ringo Starr, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - Boys) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MA (Eddie Vedder - Indifference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejs (Eddie Vedder - Under Pressure) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08AQY_0cAcchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08AQY_0cAcc (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gfHu2j5Uchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gfHu2j5Uc (Eddie Vedder - Up To You Now) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkaTqXd_gYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkaTqXd_gY (Paul McCartney Friends - Cosmically Conscious) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVD3_U3Np3Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVD3_U3Np3I (Ringo, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - It Don't Come Easy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtO_fBNpvZYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtO_fBNpvZY (Ringo with Eddie Vedder and Crow - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0 (Eddie Vedder - Guaranteed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxg (Eddie Vedder - Rise) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8 (Eddie Vedder - Arc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziLU-PPDR8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziLU-PPDR8 (Paul McCartney - Can't Buy Me Love) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0gfeature=channel_pagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0gfeature=channel_page (Paul McCartney - Lady Madonna) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOt5YmPwRghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOt5YmPwRg (Howard Stern) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvUfeature=channelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvUfeature=channel (Jerry Seinfeld) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ghWms8hVghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ghWms8hVg (Ringo Starr) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduqOkbVB8ghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduqOkbVB8g (Paul McCartney - Baby you can drive my car) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXVSbIVZrYMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXVSbIVZrYM (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADFadRdK9Awhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADFadRdK9Aw (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wd57k-HqCUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wd57k-HqCU (Ringo Starr - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQMFOgTnbMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQMFOgTnbM (Paul McCartney - Let it Be - With a little help of my friends http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aR5apgz0wshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aR5apgz0ws (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - Cosmically Conscious) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRWfMfN5U0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRWfMfN5U0 (Paul McCartney - Let it Be) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqR0fW24_chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqR0fW24_c (Paul McCartney - Baby you can drive my car) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFWgExaTeBIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFWgExaTeBI (Ringo Starr - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Rw6Bh9gN8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Rw6Bh9gN8 (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With a little help from my friends - complete) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yCp3E8CYIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yCp3E8CYI (Paul McCartney signing autographs after Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYf9SHZiachttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYf9SHZiac (Mike Love signing autographs before Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMYi8SCh_4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMYi8SCh_4 (Paul McCartney arriving at concert hall) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97PjGUTx9chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97PjGUTx9c (Paul McCartney signing autographs before Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QFYnEQynaAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QFYnEQynaA (Yoko Ono arriving at concert) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSRtxRW5xMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSRtxRW5xM (Eddie Vedder leaving concert) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwwyS3cuYohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwwyS3cuYo (Jerry Seinfeld) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3NwbTc8o0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3NwbTc8o0 (French TV) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3QiHD_DQQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3QiHD_DQQ (Eddie Vedder Ben Harper - Under Pressure) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqjanE-FNq8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqjanE-FNq8 (Paul McCartney - Let it be)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Ringo looks good for 69 years old. OffWorld I agree. Or maybe I am getting old. ;) The clips I saw did not have the best sound quality so I can't speak to the voices. Mike Love still makes my want to gag though. Too smarmy. There are many, MANY stories of Love's smarminess. He used his so-called spritituality to get laid with as many TMing women as he could get hold of. Hmmm, that reminds me of some others. Bevan of course, not to mention MMY! FWIW, I seem to recall my TM teacher saying that TM won't have any effect whatsoever on ones basic character. So - to take a drastic example - for instance, *if* pedophilia has at least partly genetic causes, TM prolly won't make one less pedophilic.
[FairfieldLife] The Gita mesage: KILL THEM ALL (Re: Dosa filling?)
bob_brigante wrote: MMY was certainly aware that Arjuna hunted deer: Fuck -- ahhh, not to mention that he and Krishna were totally espousing genocide. On the battlefield, they slaughtered elephants and horses too. Then there's Rama sending his perfect wife to the netherworld The intellect can justify anything -- it's a whore for the least emotion. And here's yet another thread that should be simply about recipes, and it rapidly changed. Threads here have about a four-post lifetime before they're titles are useless. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. Speaking of honesty, let's clean this up a little bit. Here's the statement Ruth made that I was calling intellectually dishonest: My opinion is that [yogic flying] is not a spiritual experience but a mental experience based upon a number of factors, including group hysteria. Since Ruth is depending on a Wikipedia definition of intellectual dishonesty in her defense, I'm sure she won't object if I use the Wikipedia definition of mass hysteria: - Characteristics Mass hysteria typically begins when an individual becomes ill or hysterical during a period of stress.[2] After this initial individual shows symptoms, others begin to manifest similar symptoms, typically nausea, muscle weakness, fits or headache.[3] The features of mass hysteria include no plausible cause found, ambiguous symptoms, rapid escalation of cases - often spread by line of sight - and rapid remission of symptoms. Demographically, cases are higher in females and those with greater use of medical services. Other factors that contribute to the severity of the symptoms and spread are protective clothing worn by emergency services and mistaken or misleading investigations. Sightings of religious miracles are often attributed to mass hysteria.[1] Cases of moral panic often have symptoms that overlap with mass hysteria.[citation needed] - Obviously this definition is limited, in that it characterizes mass hysteria as a mass manifestation of symptoms of illness or fear; it doesn't include mass manifestation of symptoms of what those affected would report as exhilaration due to extreme joy or bliss. So let's stipulate that the definition *should* include positive as well as negative sources of the manifestations in question. Yogic flying is not the only example; another would be the practice of Yogic Laughing and the phenomenon of holy laughter in some evangelical services. I'm perfectly willing to accept that there's an element of positive mass hysteria in the behaviors Ruth describes. That isn't the problem I have with Ruth's take on yogic flying. Again quoting Wikipedia on mass hysteria: - Criticism American paranormal and UFO researcher Jerome Clark[4] argues that mass hysteria is often a flimsy post hoc explanation and a classic blame-the-victim strategy in cases where authorities or experts can find no explanation for puzzling or frightening events. - This is the position I'm advancing. Clark is essentially describing the fallacy of argument from personal incredulity, which is a form of the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. In any case, I think it would be hard to argue that what he describes is not a matter of intellectual dishonesty. (Note that this criticism was also the basis for my objections some months ago to Ruth's characterization of reports of alien abduction as being due to cognitive error.) Ruth's claim that she is simply presenting her opinion rather than asserting fact, and therefore that she cannot be guilty of intellectual dishonesty, is a red herring. An opinion can be just as intellectually dishonest as an assertion of fact. I'll grant that the examples Wikipedia gives of intellectual dishonesty do not apply to Ruth, but Wikipedia does not claim its examples are exhaustive. In fact, it's intellectually dishonest for Ruth to rebut Wikipedia's examples as applied to her and claim that since none of those examples fit, therefore she cannot be said to be intellectually dishonest. (It's also intellectually dishonest for her to cite Wikipedia's negative characterizations of the charge of intellectual dishonesty as if the charge is never anything but a rhetorical device to negatively frame her argument, as if the charge is never a valid one.) Ruth demands to know (rhetorically): Judy is advocating a speculative, non-scientific explanation for certain behavior and then accusing me of being closed minded when I chose not to accept that explanation as likely. Who is intellectually dishonest here? Ruth's description of my position here is inaccurate. Possibly she doesn't understand it. What I'm advocating is that Ruth acknowledge she has no basis for her opinion that yogic flying is not a spiritual experience but a mental experience. In the first place, that's an excessively vague assertion. Perhaps Ruth could clarify how she makes her distinction between mental and spiritual experience, such that she can say yogic flying is the former rather than the latter. In the second place, personal subjective experience is something of a special case in terms of determining its source and nature. It may be possible to prove in certain cases that reports of a particular experience are due to cognitive error, but it simply isn't possible or even reasonable to extrapolate from those cases
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Gita mesage: KILL THEM ALL (Re: Dosa filling?)
On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Duveyoung wrote: bob_brigante wrote: MMY was certainly aware that Arjuna hunted deer: Fuck -- ahhh, not to mention that he and Krishna were totally espousing genocide. On the battlefield, they slaughtered elephants and horses too. Then there's Rama sending his perfect wife to the netherworld The intellect can justify anything -- it's a whore for the least emotion. And here's yet another thread that should be simply about recipes, and it rapidly changed. Threads here have about a four-post lifetime before they're titles are useless. Many people think the battlefield analogy is just that: pure analogy with some iota of historicity. But battle rituals have taken place since time memorial in India, even up to the present era. These ritualized battles often end up with bloodshed of some kind and in fact could be quite bloody.
[FairfieldLife] The Gita mesage: KILL THEM ALL (Re: Dosa filling?)
To me the Gita worked best as a metaphor for the human mind. If I have a mental image before me of a battlefield arrayed, can't I easily wipe out the whole realm by stopping my thinking about it? Of course, I can, and in this way, we can understand the power of the mind to seemingly do vast actions -- including killing tens of thousands of persons per day without incurring any sin since all those killed are know to be ephemeralities. In the dreamstate, Arjuna CAN knock down, mid-air, the arrows shot at him by 10,000 archers. The mind can easily imagine the whole scenario -- our nightly dreams are filled with fantastic and miraculous events. The two sides of the brain are the two sides of the mind -- intellect and heart -- seemingly opposed by nature. Two sides of the physical brain are also as if opposed, but the Krishna-factor, the corpus callosum, acts as the mediator of the two sides without favoring either side. And on and on the Ved of Physiology goes. My jury's still out, but one of the most promising things to me was the possibility of the Ved of Physiology's concepts being scientifically measurable in that the functions of the parts would be poetically described by scriptures AND the scientists would agree that the words are in harmony with the measurements. But Girish doesn't care about that now does he? Where's King Tony on a soapbox proclaiming this body of knowledge with his and Heg's credentialed coattails to ride into various venues where their educations might sway a few scientists to at least take a looksee at the scriptures? Been tried and abandoned -- seems to be the answer. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Duveyoung wrote: bob_brigante wrote: MMY was certainly aware that Arjuna hunted deer: Fuck -- ahhh, not to mention that he and Krishna were totally espousing genocide. On the battlefield, they slaughtered elephants and horses too. Then there's Rama sending his perfect wife to the netherworld The intellect can justify anything -- it's a whore for the least emotion. And here's yet another thread that should be simply about recipes, and it rapidly changed. Threads here have about a four-post lifetime before they're titles are useless. Many people think the battlefield analogy is just that: pure analogy with some iota of historicity. But battle rituals have taken place since time memorial in India, even up to the present era. These ritualized battles often end up with bloodshed of some kind and in fact could be quite bloody.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:44 AM, do.rflex wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. The word dishonesty is loaded and is important when looking at this issue. If you're guilty of anything, Ruth, it's bothering to continue to respond to the resident self-appointed obsessed professional relentless nitpicker. It isn't worth your time. She never gives up or gives in - even after it's way passed obvious the 'discussion' has gone far beyond meaningless logorrheic absurdity. What she does to perpetuate her self-congratulating game is to see if she can push your buttons through subtle personal jabs and insults. She has a need to be THE authority and keep you playing on the defensive as her target. If you take the bait, she's got more space claimed on her game board and more opportunity to keep her bullshit going. She has even compared what she does to playing a fun game of tennis. One might consider however, that it's actually some kind of a sadistic sport for her. FWIW and from what I've seen here, you're one of the most rational posters on this forum - and my guess is that most others here would agree with that view. Another common Judy tactic is to respond with something so patently false in regards to comments you made and so riddled with misleading statements that the only reasonable verbal response would take paragraphs to unravel all the untruths presented. Who wants to waste all that time? Very few people. But of course that's the idea. No one wants to waste that amount of time. But it's a double-bind: if you fall for it, well, you've fallen for it and are then dragged into a protracted battle of semantics and insignificant nuances--and the original message and intent are lost as the conversation is redirected. Ignore the baiting remarks and then accusations of other kinds begin to be made. It's all a very intellectually and logically dishonest game. In general it's rarely a good idea to get in spats with personality disordered folks. They love email lists and usenet and are often the bane of both. They're relatively easy to spot, so the best thing is to simply avoid them if there is no decent moderation.
[FairfieldLife] Moby?
Did Moby not play as planned, or did no one bother to record him? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickm...@... wrote: More video clips from Saturday's concert in New York City...for TM in schools: http://news.google.com.br/news?pz=1ned=pt-BR_brhl=ptcf=allncl=1295165669http://news.google.com.br/news?pz=1ned=pt-BR_brhl=ptcf=allncl=1295165669 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzyNt-xvQ (Ringo Starr, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - Boys) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mq-MZJ18MA (Eddie Vedder - Indifference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxuDz-Mejs (Eddie Vedder - Under Pressure) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08AQY_0cAcchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08AQY_0cAcc (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gfHu2j5Uchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gfHu2j5Uc (Eddie Vedder - Up To You Now) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkaTqXd_gYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkaTqXd_gY (Paul McCartney Friends - Cosmically Conscious) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVD3_U3Np3Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVD3_U3Np3I (Ringo, Eddie Vedder, Ben Harper - It Don't Come Easy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtO_fBNpvZYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtO_fBNpvZY (Ringo with Eddie Vedder and Crow - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY41LTUDtc0 (Eddie Vedder - Guaranteed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvlzzx56Dxg (Eddie Vedder - Rise) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFUBOvqX9X8 (Eddie Vedder - Arc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziLU-PPDR8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziLU-PPDR8 (Paul McCartney - Can't Buy Me Love) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0gfeature=channel_pagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdrCnAfU-0gfeature=channel_page (Paul McCartney - Lady Madonna) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOt5YmPwRghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOt5YmPwRg (Howard Stern) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvUfeature=channelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee2TxjGFvUfeature=channel (Jerry Seinfeld) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ghWms8hVghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ghWms8hVg (Ringo Starr) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduqOkbVB8ghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduqOkbVB8g (Paul McCartney - Baby you can drive my car) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXVSbIVZrYMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXVSbIVZrYM (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADFadRdK9Awhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADFadRdK9Aw (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With A Little Help From My Friends) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wd57k-HqCUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wd57k-HqCU (Ringo Starr - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQMFOgTnbMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQMFOgTnbM (Paul McCartney - Let it Be - With a little help of my friends http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aR5apgz0wshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aR5apgz0ws (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - Cosmically Conscious) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRWfMfN5U0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRWfMfN5U0 (Paul McCartney - Let it Be) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqR0fW24_chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqR0fW24_c (Paul McCartney - Baby you can drive my car) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFWgExaTeBIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFWgExaTeBI (Ringo Starr - Yellow Submarine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Rw6Bh9gN8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Rw6Bh9gN8 (Paul McCartney Ringo Starr - With a little help from my friends - complete) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yCp3E8CYIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yCp3E8CYI (Paul McCartney signing autographs after Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYf9SHZiachttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYf9SHZiac (Mike Love signing autographs before Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMYi8SCh_4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMYi8SCh_4 (Paul McCartney arriving at concert hall) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97PjGUTx9chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97PjGUTx9c (Paul McCartney signing autographs before Press Conference) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QFYnEQynaAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QFYnEQynaA (Yoko Ono arriving at concert) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSRtxRW5xMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSRtxRW5xM (Eddie Vedder leaving concert) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwwyS3cuYohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwwyS3cuYo (Jerry Seinfeld) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3NwbTc8o0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3NwbTc8o0 (French TV)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Is Not A Religion Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I was hoping that someone would weigh in on this. I remembered the incident having been mentioned, but couldn't remember the details, and Yahoo Search is not working for me. I can see your disappointment ! No response from normal healthy people, within or outside the TMO, about something that happened more than thirty (30) years ago ! And nobody like yourself writing more than forty (40) posts a week about a group they participated in more than thirty (30) years ago. It seems most people simply have moved on and you are almost the only one obsessed with this. Why ? Beacuse most people are sane and you are not.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Gita mesage: KILL THEM ALL (Re: Dosa filling?)
On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Duveyoung wrote: And on and on the Ved of Physiology goes. My jury's still out, but one of the most promising things to me was the possibility of the Ved of Physiology's concepts being scientifically measurable in that the functions of the parts would be poetically described by scriptures AND the scientists would agree that the words are in harmony with the measurements. But Girish doesn't care about that now does he? Where's King Tony on a soapbox proclaiming this body of knowledge with his and Heg's credentialed coattails to ride into various venues where their educations might sway a few scientists to at least take a looksee at the scriptures? Been tried and abandoned -- seems to be the answer. My take on the whole 'Ved in physiology' spiel is that in terms of the tradition it came from, it's a departure and therefore philosophically and yogically flawed. MMY was a materialist who preached that 'consciousness is primary, matter is secondary'. So you have this disparity when there is a detailed subtle physiology of nadis, bindus and vayus which is the world of inner yoga, yet you have King Tony presenting an entirely physical explanation where the human nervous system is Vedic literature. It's a silly departure which which is not based on evolving experience like the yogis models of reality, instead it's based on a materialistic worldview. If consciousness is primary, then you shouldn't need to invoke a physical nervous system, you should be able to explain it in inner, experiential, yogic terms. MMY never could, except in the most basic, sketchy ways being linked to coached experiences (e.g. thought-free = pure consciousness) or his distortions on rishi, devata and chhandas.
[FairfieldLife] and now for something completely different
Getting away from the Bash Judy, MMY, etc fest, I thought I'd promote (once again) my favorite time-waster: http://www.examiner.com/x-4734-Second-Life-Examiner~y2009m4d6-What-is-Second-Life-video
[FairfieldLife] Re: The *definition* of intellectual dishonesty
Let's do some more fisking of Barry's chronic disingenuity: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip First, Ruth writes Judy off as a Bad Bet: Well, I am sure you are having fun engaging me. Because I don't like you and would rather not be a game for you, I'll sign off for now and go back to ignoring you. Ta. Ruth is *clearly* making a statement here. She is saying in no uncertain terms that she wants to have nothing further to do with Judy Stein. And how does Judy Stein *react* to this? By snipping the quote above to pretend it never existed, ?? How odd. I typically snip parts of a post that I'm not responding to, as does Barry and as do most others here. Does Barry think I should have given Ruth my *permission* to ignore me? Or that I should have argued that she *shouldn't* ignore me?? and then following up in two different posts Only one, actually (the same one in which I snipped her declaration that she was going into Ignore Judy Mode). Barry would like to make it appear that I made *three* follow-up posts, when in fact I didn't make *any* after the one he's commenting on. with line after line after line of taunts aimed at trying to get Ruth to continue arguing with her: Not. That's Barry's game, not mine. (He even *admits* it, brags about it.) We'll have to, um, agree to disagree about whether it's intellectually honest. Taunt #1. In other words, I persist in calling you intellectually dishonest. Barry has *such* trouble with context. I was responding to Ruth's claim that because she was expressing an *opinion*, therefore she couldn't be called intellectually dishonest. That, of course, is horsesh*t. It's simply too easy to relegate reports of experiences that don't fit into your worldview to cognitive error or suggestion. (If you can *prove* that they are, that's a different story. Taunt #2. I'm daring you to 'prove' something we both know cannot be proved. Nope. That was my *point*, that it can't be proved. Yes, really. I wouldn't wish what I was afraid you were feeling on anybody, because I've been through that level of despair (albeit in a different context) myself. Taunt #3. Repeat the claim that Ruth is in a state of despair. Note that Barry carefully ignores the phrase what I *was afraid* you were feeling. He's well aware that I've *explicitly* said, to Ruth and to Curtis, that I take Ruth's word that she *isn't* in a state of despair. Yes, it's my OPINION that your OPINION is intellectually dishonest. Taunt #4. Call Ruth intellectually dishonest again. Again, a response to Ruth's claim that she can't be called intellectually dishonest, because she's only expressing an opinion: Give me a break. I come to a different OPINION and you find intellectual dishonesty. That involves so many assumptions on your part that there could be no reasonable discussion with you on the issue. Which assumptions you'll regretfully decline to state. Taunt #5. The olde You're too cowardly to keep debating with me routine. Nope. Even if she *did* continue debating with me, she wouldn't deign to state the assumptions she refers to. snip You seem to be reading more into what I am saying than what I said. Such as? I note that you've cleverly avoided addressing the basis for my objection. Taunt #8. Ignore COMPLETELY that Ruth has said that she wants nothing more to do with Judy and ask a question of her. Then taunt her by implying that by failing to answer it she is cleverly avoiding addressing the basis for her objection. Nope. I noted that she had failed *in the post I was responding to*, not in some future post, to address the basis for my objections *made in my previous post to which she was currently responding*. Barry seems to think that if a person concludes a post by saying they are going to ignore you, that means *you are no longer entitled to point out problems with the rest of their response*. They get off scot-free, they are automatically given the last word, in Barry's alleged mind. And the question I asked had to do with what she *had* said, not with what she had failed to address. Boy, talk about cognitive deficit! Barry's a walking (or typing) case history thereof. snip The more I read you the more I have the impression that you and Turq are alike. He pokes and prods you, not indicating that he cares at all about you and the negative effect he has on you. Oh, he cares very much indeed. He'd be devastated if he knew he had no negative effect on me. Taunt #12. Throw in the obligatory bash Barry comment, because it inflates Judy's fantasies about him feeling devastated whereas she feels no negative effect. That's why she had to say something, right? :-) Barry seems to have failed to notice that it was *Ruth* who said something. He also fails to recognize that what she said was very much a taunt. snip It's all a
[FairfieldLife] The Glenn Beck Apocalypse: Supernews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NMoyarAM4
[FairfieldLife] BHAKTI FEST 2009
http://www.westcoastkirtanyogafestival.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: and now for something completely different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: Getting away from the Bash Judy, MMY, etc fest, I thought I'd promote (once again) my favorite time-waster: http://www.examiner.com/x-4734-Second-Life-Examiner~y2009m4d6-What-is-Second-Life-video You mean the bash Judy and MMY fest hasn't moved from this life yet? What are we waiting for, opportunites abound! Actually, I'd like to go live there, the streets are nice and clean and the people move in an extremely interesting way.
[FairfieldLife] Re: and now for something completely different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Getting away from the Bash Judy, MMY, etc fest, I thought I'd promote (once again) my favorite time-waster: http://www.examiner.com/x-4734-Second-Life-Examiner~y2009m4d6-What-is-Second-Life-video You mean the bash Judy and MMY fest hasn't moved from this life yet? What are we waiting for, opportunites abound! Actually, I'd like to go live there, the streets are nice and clean and the people move in an extremely interesting way. You meet interesting people. For example, this is Which Linden, one of the engineers working on the system: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/431884271/
[FairfieldLife] WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/0002/0\ 001/7TOCPJ.SGM -- a peer-reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research http://www.navysbir.com/n08_1/N081-020.htm , super-thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense-related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory http://stj911.org/press_releases/ActiveThermiticMaterial.html . We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone. Read the whole story: http://tinyurl.com/cw3q35 http://tinyurl.com/cw3q35 Or http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scientists_find_active_superthermite_in_WT\ C_0404.html http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scientists_find_active_superthermite_in_W\ TC_0404.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. I had to respond because this explains the problem in a nutshell. Judy refuses to acknowledge the weight of the evidence or educate herself on the topics I listed above such as suggestibility and social pressure. Heck, look at examples of group hypnotism for people behaving similarly. The weight of the evidence favors mundane explanations and thus there is an objective basis for holding an opinion. You dear Judy are intellectually dishonest in refusing to educate yourself and ignoring the weight of the evidence. If you would like a reading list I would be pleased to provide one. Until you educate yourself beyond reading proponents of heterodox theories I have no further interest in talking about psychological topics with you, from alien abduction to twitching siddhas. Okie dokie. I'm done and going for a run. Its my meditation. Have a nice day folks!
[FairfieldLife] Re: and now for something completely different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Getting away from the Bash Judy, MMY, etc fest, I thought I'd promote (once again) my favorite time-waster: http://www.examiner.com/x-4734-Second-Life-Examiner~y2009m4d6-What-is-Second-Life-video You mean the bash Judy and MMY fest hasn't moved from this life yet? What are we waiting for, opportunites abound! Actually, I'd like to go live there, the streets are nice and clean and the people move in an extremely interesting way. You meet interesting people. For example, this is Which Linden, one of the engineers working on the system: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/431884271/ I can honestly say that would be the last thing I would choose as an alternative self, but he's sure to stand out from the crowds. Does the bamboo ambulate satisfactorily? Can we get a peep at the world without joining? It's all totally new to me. I had heard that it was poor graphically but that looks OK, I could engineer quite a good domain there I reckon. I bet it's all the sort of thing you can get highly addicted to very easily. Besides, I ought to get my first life sorted out first;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply.
[FairfieldLife] Re: independent TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.f...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Theo Fehr t.fehr@ wrote: What concerns the important question of quality of teaching, we could show, that 47% of the people who were initiated into TM by teachers of the TMO, exhibit a strong tendency to engage in SELF-DECEPTION and IMPRESSION MANAGEMENT when assessing their individual experiences as TM-practitioners via a psychological questionnaire. The article is in German and was published 2002 in a German professional psychological journal and may be downloaded from: http://www.tm-independent.de/ReporPsychArtikel2.pdf --- I don't suppose you could find an English translation Theo, this sounds rather interesting. Here is the Abstract: With 47% Ss of a cross-sectional study of 360 Ss practicing Transcendental Meditation administering the Freiburger Personality Inventory FPI a significantly reduced opennes compared to norm data was found. Though exhibiting only few noteworthy effects correlating with meditation practice measured in years the dissimulating Ss of the study described themselves as predominantly positive. The open meditators of the same study â the other roughly 50 % â showed significant constructive effects of long meditation practice in eight scales of the FPI â nervousness (reduced), depression (reduced), irritability (reduced), sociability (increased), equanimity (increased), inhibition (reduced), neuroticism (reduced) and robustness (increased). An adequate open or even self-critical attitude proves to be a prerequisite for successful meditation, which may be found with about 50% of meditators who have learned to meditate within the frame of programs offered by the TM-movement. With the remaining 47% of meditators expansive and grandiose-inflated cognitive ideation is an expression of self-deception and impression management resulting from partially considerable distortion of perception with regard to their ability to keep in touch with reality. To reduce the risk of self-deception we recommend for people interested in Transcendental Meditation to prefer free TM-teachers with additional psychotherapeutic qualification, who work independent of the TM-organisation. regards Theo So what are the TM-free teachers doing that's different? In England they seem to be saying the same things in their literature about the origins and purpose of TM, the only difference seems to be that they keep all the money. But in order for them to be having as large an effect as this it would seem to me that large parts of the TM dogma would have to be left out. I bet if I could read german I'd find that people with the low self-delusion score were taught the technique without the supporting philosophy. Am I right?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Ringo looks good for 69 years old. OffWorld I agree. Or maybe I am getting old. ;) The clips I saw did not have the best sound quality so I can't speak to the voices. Mike Love still makes my want to gag though. Too smarmy. There are many, MANY stories of Love's smarminess. He used his so-called spritituality to get laid with as many TMing women as he could get hold of. Sounds like a typical rock star. Hmmm, that reminds me of some others. Bevan of course, not to mention MMY! So Bevan and MMY both are known to sleep with hundreds, if not thousands, of women, and have them line up outside their dressing room by the dozens so they can pick their favorites for the night? Those are your words Lawson, not mine. Hundreds? I doubt it. In MMY's case I would say the more accurate estimate would be 10 or 12. Hagelin? I have no idea other than the anecdotal evidence that has been reported many times here. Clearly, you don't like the message so you inflate it to absurd levels to better dismiss the thought. That's fine I suppose. speaking of inflating to absurd levels, you were the one who 'suggested that Mike Love's behavior was smarmy, presumably compared to all the other promiscious rock stars, and then suggested that MMY's behavior was in the same league. Lawson, you went off the rails starting with your presumably comment above. I didn't compare Mike Love's behavior to other promiscuous rock stars. I said that using his supposed spirituality to get laid was smarmy. And on this basis MMY's actions were in the same league.
Re: [FairfieldLife] WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? All this will do is further fuel the conspiracy theories on the WTC collapse. On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Hugo wrote: Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer- reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super- thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense- related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF.
[FairfieldLife] Bush is a coward
Not new news, but contrast his visit to Bagdad with Obama's (who's there now). Bush arrived in the dead of night under the utmost secrecy and was out of there in an hour or two. As Air Force One was ascending, he asked repeatedly whether it had yet reached 10,000 feet, at which point missiles wouldn't be able to shoot it down. Obama, OTOH, went there in broad daylight and the world media are broadcasting his visit while he's still on the ground. It might be argued that conditions have improved since Bush's visit, but I think the contrast between the two visits says something about the character of the two presidents (although I hesitate to refer to Bush as President because he was never legitimately elected).
Re: [FairfieldLife] WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Good Info. Any countering information to this? Arhata Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer-reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super-thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense-related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone. Read the whole story: http://tinyurl. com/cw3q35 Or http://rawstory. com/news/ 2008/Scientists_ find_active_ superthermite_ in_WTC_0404. html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:26 AM, geezerfreak wrote: Lawson, you went off the rails starting with your presumably comment above. I didn't compare Mike Love's behavior to other promiscuous rock stars. I said that using his supposed spirituality to get laid was smarmy. Wanna come up and hear my mantras sometime? And on this basis MMY's actions were in the same league. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. Sure it has. Science has learned that people are not flying.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think?
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? No, and I've never actually been convinced that they were destroyed by explosives. Not least because there was no explosion like you get when a building is deliberately brought down. And when would they have rigged up the explosives? In the normal course of the job you have to dismantle the walls of whole floors to tie them together so they don't fall outwards. I remain a sceptic. For now ;-) Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? All this will do is further fuel the conspiracy theories on the WTC collapse. I'm sure it will ignite the flames of conspiracy severely. On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Hugo wrote: Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer- reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super- thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense- related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Uh, no.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:33 AM, raunchydog wrote: Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF. I've said it before and I'll say it again. :-) There IS a fairly simple test to determine whether yogic flying is anything more than muscle exertion (whether conscious or not). Simply have the subject perform the siddhis while sitting on a water bed with a thick- ness of at least a foot. If the subject can life off the surface of the bed, even a few inches, it's not pure muscles. If he cannot, it is. The reason for this is pure physics. On a water bed, if you exert downward force (again, whether conscious or unconscious), all that is going to happen is that the water moves out of the way and the person remains seated firmly on the water bed. To be able to lift off, some process other than simple exertion of downward muscle force would have to be in play. My bet is that this simple experiment has never been tried, and for obvious reasons. It would prove that nothing special is taking place.
[FairfieldLife] Some Obots are having second thoughts about Obama
After a month in office, the Obama administration has surprised many of its supporters by embracing or appearing receptive to key parts of the Bush administration's counterterrorism strategy, from indefinite detention, to kidnapping and rendition, to invoking state secrets privileges. Read more: Despite Gitmo Closure and Torture Ban, Obama Admin Converges with Several Bush Policies in So-Called War on Terror (Democracy Now: Salon.com blogger Glenn Greenwald joins The New Yorker's Jane Mayer to discuss.with video): http://tinyurl.com/cstg9e http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/20/despite_gitmo_closure_torture_ban_obama UPDATE: Writer Jeremy Scahill, who wrote the bestseller on Blackwater, told Democracy Now!'s Amy Goodman on April 2nd that: I'm starting to call a series of pieces I'm doing Operation Rebranded, because what we're seeing unfold with the Obama administration's foreign policy is basically continuing many of the worst parts of Bush's foreign policy and sort of repackaging these policies. So, for instance, the Obama administration has dropped the use of the term global war on terrorism and uses phrases like contingency operations to describe the US occupation of Iraq. The latest news we have is that the Obama's administration has decided on its mercenary firm of choice. Clearly, Obama did not want to continue at least a public relationship with Blackwater. Scahill describes the company that OBAMA has hired to protect the huge embassy in Baghdad - a company that was founded in Chicago, Illinois: Obama picked this firm Triple Canopy, which interestingly was founded in Chicago, in the home state of Barack Obama. And then in 2005, they changed their location to Herndon, Virginia, so that they'd be closer to the epicenter of US war contracting, though on the Israeli contract, that I'm going to talk about in a moment, they list their Lincolnshire, Illinois address as their primary address for the contract. AMY GOODMAN: Who heads up Triple Canopy? JEREMY SCAHILL: It was founded by former Special Forces operatives from the US Army. They were minor contributors to the Bush/Cheney campaign, but not real big political players. They clearly started the company as a result of the US invasion in Iraq. They started it in 2003. By 2004, they got one of the primary contracts in Iraq. An interesting fact about Triple Canopy is that it was one of the big three US companies. Triple Canopy, DynCorp, and Blackwater shared this mother contract. Blackwater had the biggest share of it, to guard US officials in the Baghdad area. DynCorp had the north of Iraq. Triple Canopy had the south of Iraq. Triple Canopy also, though, did a very lucrative business servicing other war contractors like KBR, and Triple Canopy was also known for being the company that brought in the largest number of so-called third country nationals, non-Iraqis, non-Americans. They hired, for instance, former Salvadoran commandos who were veterans of the bloody counterinsurgency war in El Salvador that took the lives of 75,000 Salvadorans, minimum. Chileansthey used the same recruiter, Jose Miguel Pizarro Ovalle, that Blackwater used when they hired Chileans. This was a former Pinochet military officer. And this company has been around, you know, for five or six years. The Obama administration has hired them in Iraq, and many of the Blackwater guys are believed to be jumping over to Triple Canopy to continue working on in Iraq. Obama, though, is keeping Blackwater on, and the State Department has not ruled out that they're going to stay on for much longer, the aviation division of Blackwater in Iraq, and also Blackwater is on the US government payroll in Afghanistan, also working for the Drug Enforcement Agency. The news that I'm breaking on Triple Canopy, though, is that I obtained federal contracts that were signed in February and March by the Obama administration with Triple Canopy to act as a private paramilitary force operating out of Jerusalem. And this is also part of a very secretive State Department program called the Worldwide Personal Protective Service, which was started under the Clinton administration as a privatized wing of the State Department's Diplomatic Security division. Triple Canopy was paid $5 million in February, March by the Obama administration to provide, quote, security services in Israel. In congressional testimony in 2007, Ambassador David Satterfield, who was an Under Secretary of State, said that he had been guarded by private security companies when he traveled in Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem. Triple Canopy had the contract, has had this contract since 2005, the Obama administration continuing it. I think that the Obama administration should be required to explain to US taxpayers, particularly with the atrocious human rights abuses that we've been seeing in Israel, why he's using a US mercenary company to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: There's no more evidence that it's due to cognitive error than there is that it's the first stage of levitation. There's no objective basis for holding *any* opinion about what it is or isn't, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend there is. Patently wrong and intellectually dishonest. No more evidence of mundane explanations than evidence that this is the first state of yogic flying? I can hardly believe Judy maintains this position because it is so contrary to what science has learned about people. Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? No. I think it's mental. You have to look at a balance of evidence between how people behave in cults (the Toronto blessing, stigmata) what is known about physics, neurophysiology, psychology etc. And compare that with how many people have actually levitated using Marshy's magic words. The smart money is on kiddology as being far and away the most likely explanation. BTW I did it for ten years, I'm as much an expert as you'll get.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF. My argument with Ruth has to do with subjective experience *only*, not whether yogic flying involves or leads to real flying. I'm agnostic on that myself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF. How about mass being optional? I'm rather sure the LHC might surprise us with hinting that the Higgs boson may act under certain conditions as its own anti-particle... *aa*-kaasha,y'know... ;D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF. How about mass being optional? I'm rather sure the LHC might surprise us with hinting that the Higgs boson may act under certain conditions as its own anti-particle... *aa*-kaasha,y'know... ;D I wish my mass was optional, when the cycling season starts it's getting harder each year to reach peak fitness. We should get a siddhi for that. But if you are acting from beyond the relative field then you should be able to decide on anything. Ah, for some evidence..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? No. I think it's mental. And so is Raunchy, to believe such crap. :-) You have to look at a balance of evidence between how people behave in cults (the Toronto blessing, stigmata) what is known about physics, neurophysiology, psychology etc. And compare that with how many people have actually levitated using Marshy's magic words. You also need to bear in mind the relative effectiveness of the placebo effect, espec- ially when the person receiving the placebo has paid a great deal of money for it. One study that I know of (funnily enough), also had to do with lift off and getting aloft. It involved Viagra. In clinical trials, guys given placebos *sometimes* reported that the placebos worked for them, even though there was nothing in the pills but sugar. But quite a few reported no results from the placebos. But in the co-study, the researchers ordered Viagra from numerous online pharmacies on the Web, and found that less than 40% of it was real. The other 60% were placebos. So they extended their study to include a bunch of these guys' reports on the effectiveness of the drugs they had bought online. And the fascinating thing that they found is that even though 60% of the guys PAYING for the Viagra themselves (as opposed to having been given it for free in the clinical trials, and remember that Viagra at this time cost $10-12 *per pill*) were swallowing placebos, almost ALL of them reported that it was working for them. The online vendors selling placebos almost never received any complaints. So why is this relevant to yogic flying? Duh. The people sitting on the foam have just paid a minimum of $3000 to learn how to fly. Are they going to feel something? OF COURSE THEY ARE. Add to that the peer pres- sure of a cult environment, and MANY are going to feel something.
[FairfieldLife] The Gita mesage: kill 'em all - let god sort 'em out.
Normal 0 What a nice fricative-guttural, finished off with the prime utterance. This must be part of the newly discovered american veda. Yep, it's a real sound of wonder - FuckAh! It make you want to become a cantor in the american vedic church doesn't it? In that old epic, Krishna and Arjuna were kshatriya. What a shame. Poor Arjuna and Krishna were just slaves to the gunas weren't they? They couldn't stop killing. Rajas uber alles. Even worse! Arjuna unknowingly contested with Shiva (who took up the form of a hunter in the forest) in shooting at a wild boar. Poor Shiva Sharva, the Archer who killed a boar. He must not have heard of PETA yet. He must have been a slave of the gunas too. Poor Rama, he put Dharma before love of Sita. If he had been a Vaishya instead of a Raja he could have bought off the washerman who slandered his wife. But he couldn't even kill his slanderous subject. He must have been weak. But what else could you expect from a Raja constrained by satyam, ritam, brihat? Dharma - it's just so inconvenient. And that old filthy intellect emotions oozing whore. Everyone look out! What a heartless objective hammer to pound down the relativities and then throw towards us! I had to duck. But at last, finally, it can now be told! The edgerunner was alone in the forest of uncertainty with his little tag-along whore. Then whooaa! She turns out to be Durga herself, in tutelage to the edgerunner a rishi level intellect free of influence from emotion or obscuration. How else to explain how a human being could even notice the possibility of objectivity seeing they can never go beyond human subjectivity? But wait! I just got it! Sorry Im so stupid that it took me this long. Its Deus ex Machina. Only here the Deus is edgerunner himself. Gosh, oh gee. What is the sound of one hand striking the forehead?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
The building was closed for some maintenance work a few days before the attack. That is when people think the explosives were laid and some beams severed to create the demolition collapse. I know some people who probably watch too much TV want to believe that Al-Qaeda was sophisticated enough to pull this off but I strongly have my doubts about that. What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? It brought down the US military on their heads. If they wanted to upset Americans they would have done small suicide attacks on shopping malls. That's never happened. And after 9-11 to create more economic disorder they could have knocked out corporate jets but that's never happened either. I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. I believe it is just posturing to appear normal. And what the fuck is normal? Hugo wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? No, and I've never actually been convinced that they were destroyed by explosives. Not least because there was no explosion like you get when a building is deliberately brought down. And when would they have rigged up the explosives? In the normal course of the job you have to dismantle the walls of whole floors to tie them together so they don't fall outwards. I remain a sceptic. For now ;-) Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? All this will do is further fuel the conspiracy theories on the WTC collapse. I'm sure it will ignite the flames of conspiracy severely. On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Hugo wrote: Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer- reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super- thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense- related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:33 AM, raunchydog wrote: Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups. Presumably then it would follow that without the group the *effect* and side-effects would disappear? That's not been my experience.
[FairfieldLife] Bill O'Reilly attended concert
Last night on Bill O'Reilly's The O'Reilly Factor on Fox he closed the show with his 'Pinheads and Patriots' section. In the 'Patriots' section he said he attended the David Lynch Foundation concert Saturday night featuring Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr among other performers. He loved the program, gave high praise to David, Paul and Ringo and everyone involved with putting the show on' and said it was for a very worthy cause - teaching at-risk youth meditation. He then said that TM was very effective to help these kids and gave high praise for the David Lynch Foundation programs.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. I believe it is just posturing to appear normal. And what the fuck is normal? Strikes across the frontier and strikes for higher wage Planet lurches to the right as ideologies engage Suddenly it's repression, moratorium on rights What did they think the politics of panic would invite? Person in the street shrugs -- Security comes first But the trouble with normal is it always gets worse Callous men in business costume speak computerese Play pinball with the Third World trying to keep it on its knees Their single crop starvation plans put sugar in your tea And the local Third World's kept on reservations you don't see It'll all go back to normal if we put our nation first But the trouble with normal is it always gets worse Fashionable fascism dominates the scene When ends don't meet it's easier to justify the means Tenants get the dregs and landlords get the cream As the grinding devolution of the democratic dream Brings us men in gas masks dancing while the shells burst The trouble with normal is it always gets worse -- Bruce Cockburn, 1981
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:33 AM, raunchydog wrote: Science hasn't learned anything about people doing yogic flying. All science can do is extrapolate from other cases that are very different in context and content. I'm saying such extrapolation isn't valid and does not constitute any kind of evidence about yogic flying. Walks like a duck just doesn't apply. Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups. Yes. Whenever speaking in tongues is shown on TV I can never laugh too hard since I've participated in our own version of the babble.
[FairfieldLife] Siddhi Placebos (was Re: Intellectual dishonesty)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? No. I think it's mental. And so is Raunchy, to believe such crap. :-) You have to look at a balance of evidence between how people behave in cults (the Toronto blessing, stigmata) what is known about physics, neurophysiology, psychology etc. And compare that with how many people have actually levitated using Marshy's magic words. You also need to bear in mind the relative effectiveness of the placebo effect, espec- ially when the person receiving the placebo has paid a great deal of money for it. Well of course there is some sense in that comment. And yet... I always get this sort of itch-I-can't-scratch when the placebo effect is wheeled out in a context such as this. The placebo effect is really just a place holder for some capability of mind over matter that we don't understand. So we have one group of folks (the TBs et. al.) saying we are preactisng a technique that exercizes and demonstrates a principle that we believe in - viz: some capability of mind over matter that we don't understand. To which the reply is: No, no, no. Nothing to see hear. This is *just* some capability of mind over matter that we don't understand. Scratch me! One study that I know of (funnily enough), also had to do with lift off and getting aloft. It involved Viagra. In clinical trials, guys given placebos *sometimes* reported that the placebos worked for them, even though there was nothing in the pills but sugar. But quite a few reported no results from the placebos. But in the co-study, the researchers ordered Viagra from numerous online pharmacies on the Web, and found that less than 40% of it was real. The other 60% were placebos. So they extended their study to include a bunch of these guys' reports on the effectiveness of the drugs they had bought online. And the fascinating thing that they found is that even though 60% of the guys PAYING for the Viagra themselves (as opposed to having been given it for free in the clinical trials, and remember that Viagra at this time cost $10-12 *per pill*) were swallowing placebos, almost ALL of them reported that it was working for them. The online vendors selling placebos almost never received any complaints. So why is this relevant to yogic flying? Duh. The people sitting on the foam have just paid a minimum of $3000 to learn how to fly. Are they going to feel something? OF COURSE THEY ARE. Add to that the peer pres- sure of a cult environment, and MANY are going to feel something.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: Flying like a duck does apply though. Extrapolate from this: Gravity has never appeared to be optional. No matter what magic words you know. So in that respect science has a lot to say about YF. How about mass being optional? I'm rather sure the LHC might surprise us with hinting that the Higgs boson may act under certain conditions as its own anti-particle... *aa*-kaasha,y'know... ;D Oops! Da Higgs boson *is* its own antiparticle, so there's nothing unnatural in YF? Wiki: n the Standard Model, the Higgs field consists of two neutral and two charged component fields. Both of the charged components and one of the neutral fields are Goldstone bosons, which act as the longitudinal third-polarization components of the massive W+, Wâ, and Z bosons. The quantum of the remaining neutral component corresponds to the massive Higgs boson. Since the Higgs field is a scalar field, the Higgs boson has no spin, hence no intrinsic angular momentum. The Higgs boson is also its own antiparticle and is CP-even.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Richard M wrote: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups. Presumably then it would follow that without the group the *effect* and side-effects would disappear? That's not been my experience. Not necessarily. Many people practice Glossolalia privately in their own homes. There does however seem to be some preference for doing it en masse. Many here have commented on it preferentially in regards to the TMSP. Having group reinforcement of our beliefs is important, whether it's nudism, Glossolalia or NASCAR.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Amateur pictures of the Star
All I got was a red 'x'. Can you send a link to some of the pics? Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,' only love. - Amma --- On Mon, 4/6/09, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Amateur pictures of the Star To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:35 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Richard M wrote: Presumably then it would follow that without the group the *effect* and side-effects would disappear? That's not been my experience. Not necessarily. Many people practice Glossolalia privately in their own homes. There does however seem to be some preference for doing it en masse. Many here have commented on it preferentially in regards to the TMSP. Having group reinforcement of our beliefs is important, whether it's nudism, Glossolalia or NASCAR. Much less all three at once. The image that sprung to my mind was of a naked guy sitting in the stands at Daytona during a race, gibbering, Petty betty Gibbs-God Busch Jimmie-gimme Yates-mates Rousch rush rr ubetcha with a beatific look on his face. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Gita mesage: kill 'em all - let god sort 'em out.
HA HA! Great elbowing! I bow. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim emptyb...@... wrote: Normal 0 What a nice fricative-guttural, finished off with the prime utterance. This must be part of the newly discovered american veda. Yep, it's a real sound of wonder - FuckAh! It make you want to become a cantor in the american vedic church doesn't it? In that old epic, Krishna and Arjuna were kshatriya. What a shame. Poor Arjuna and Krishna were just slaves to the gunas weren't they? They couldn't stop killing. Rajas uber alles. Even worse! Arjuna unknowingly contested with Shiva (who took up the form of a hunter in the forest) in shooting at a wild boar. Poor Shiva Sharva, the Archer who killed a boar. He must not have heard of PETA yet. He must have been a slave of the gunas too. Poor Rama, he put Dharma before love of Sita. If he had been a Vaishya instead of a Raja he could have bought off the washerman who slandered his wife. But he couldn't even kill his slanderous subject. He must have been weak. But what else could you expect from a Raja constrained by satyam, ritam, brihat? Dharma - it's just so inconvenient. And that old filthy intellect emotion's oozing whore. Everyone look out! What a heartless objective hammer to pound down the relativities and then throw towards us! I had to duck. But at last, finally, it can now be told! The edgerunner was alone in the forest of uncertainty with his little tag-along whore. Then whooaa! She turns out to be Durga herself, in tutelage to the edgerunner a rishi level intellect free of influence from emotion or obscuration. How else to explain how a human being could even notice the possibility of objectivity seeing they can never go beyond human subjectivity? But wait! I just got it! Sorry I'm so stupid that it took me this long. It's Deus ex Machina. Only here the Deus is edgerunner himself. Gosh, oh gee. What is the sound of one hand striking the forehead?
[FairfieldLife] Questions unanswered by Vaj
Normal 0 Vaj: One of the fastest ways, if not the fastest way to generate nondual samadhi is to learn the practice of nondual compassion meditation. It actually generates the same neurological signatures as advanced Patanjali meditators in samadhi. Too imprecise. Give us something substantive to consider. What do you mean by non-dual samadhi. Whose non-dual samadhi? Gaudapada in the Mandukya Karikas? Shankara in his Bhagavad Gita commentary? Abhinavagupta? Radharani in Goloka Vrindavana? Or is this more Buddhist superimposition? What is non-dual compassion? How can compassion be non-dual since it involves an other? In Buddhism the Brahma-Vihara meditations are not considered adequate to generate liberation either in Theravada or Mahayana but they can generate a full dhyana-samapatti. Is this what you mean or are you discussing something else. If so what is it? Who are these advanced Patanjali meditators in samadhi? Where and when were their neurological signatures studied? What studies of non-dual meditators demonstrate significant parallels with Patanjali meditators. What studies are you talking about? Where can we find these studies? What should anyone believe that neurological brainwave activity is a definitive indicator of anything spiritual such as higher states of consciousness? This sounds like TM speak.This is a question that has never been answered by anyone, most especially by neurologists. It all appears to be sets of inferences linked to a-prior assumptions. This is especially true of the TMO. Why parrot it if you distain it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Gita mesage: kill 'em all - let god sort 'em out.
Edgrunner, Thank you for taking it all in the spirit in which it was written. As pure play. Vaj should take lessons from you. Empty (and hollow fer sure) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: HA HA! Great elbowing! I bow. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim emptybill@ wrote: Normal 0 What a nice fricative-guttural, finished off with the prime utterance. This must be part of the newly discovered american veda. Yep, it's a real sound of wonder - FuckAh! It make you want to become a cantor in the american vedic church doesn't it? In that old epic, Krishna and Arjuna were kshatriya. What a shame. Poor Arjuna and Krishna were just slaves to the gunas weren't they? They couldn't stop killing. Rajas uber alles. Even worse! Arjuna unknowingly contested with Shiva (who took up the form of a hunter in the forest) in shooting at a wild boar. Poor Shiva Sharva, the Archer who killed a boar. He must not have heard of PETA yet. He must have been a slave of the gunas too. Poor Rama, he put Dharma before love of Sita. If he had been a Vaishya instead of a Raja he could have bought off the washerman who slandered his wife. But he couldn't even kill his slanderous subject. He must have been weak. But what else could you expect from a Raja constrained by satyam, ritam, brihat? Dharma - it's just so inconvenient. And that old filthy intellect emotion's oozing whore. Everyone look out! What a heartless objective hammer to pound down the relativities and then throw towards us! I had to duck. But at last, finally, it can now be told! The edgerunner was alone in the forest of uncertainty with his little tag-along whore. Then whooaa! She turns out to be Durga herself, in tutelage to the edgerunner a rishi level intellect free of influence from emotion or obscuration. How else to explain how a human being could even notice the possibility of objectivity seeing they can never go beyond human subjectivity? But wait! I just got it! Sorry I'm so stupid that it took me this long. It's Deus ex Machina. Only here the Deus is edgerunner himself. Gosh, oh gee. What is the sound of one hand striking the forehead?
[FairfieldLife] What's the difference? (was Re: Intellectual dishonesty)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost...@... wrote: Dunce Scotus: It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria Dunderhead: But the effect can happen outside the group Dunce Scotus: Yes, Many people practice privately. Others prefer the group Dunderhead: So WTF are you saying? While I get what you're saying, and agree with it, part of me wants to ask, What's the *difference* between what one feels subjectively from practicing the TM-siddhis if those feelings were mystically caused by the TM-siddhi practice working as it was sold, or if those feelings were caused by the placebo effect? I'm asking because some here seem to react emotionally, as if there were a difference. I've asked this question before in other contexts. For example, if you feel that the things you learned from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi were of value to you and, even if only for a time, those teachings enhanced your life, would it *matter* to you if you found out that he lied about being a celibate? If it turned out that he had once bedded the entire Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad on the fifty-yard line during the halftime show, would that somehow diminish the value you received from his teaching? If it turned out that that the TM-siddhis were nothing but a field effect related to the placebo effect and mass hysteria, and you feel as if the subjective experience of them benefited you, would finding out that their real cause *matter* to you? If you feel that learning TM was one of the most important events in your life, and served to structure and shape that life into the (hopefully) pleasant reality you find yourself in today, would finding a secret memoir written in Maharishi's handwriting saying that the whole thing had been merely a scam to make money CHANGE anything for you? If so, WHY? I've posed this question numerous times on this forum. No one ever responds. Which leaves me wondering what this thing that humans feel about their preferred interpre- tations of what their lives were about is all about. What is more important to them -- the theories and beliefs that they hold about how and why these things that they value had value for them, or the value itself? Me, I've found myself in the position of real- izing that my spiritual teacher was a charlatan a couple of times now. But did that affect in any way the *value* of the things I still value from having spent time with them? Not a bit. I still value the things that I still feel have value, even though they were taught to me by charlatans. And I feel no compunction to somehow justify or excuse or make apologies for the parts of their teaching that were IMO pure scam and charlatanry, and without lasting value. So I'm wondering why it is that so many seem to feel so threatened and reactive when someone posts something here that suggests that they might be in the same position. I just don't get it. Could one of you who feels this way explain it to me?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Intellectual dishonesty.
Goats? :) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 7, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: ruthsimplicity wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. The word dishonesty is loaded and is important when looking at this issue. snip I would consider being accused of intellectual dishonesty by Judy a compliment. It seems to be her only out when cornered. I also consider being called an asshole a compliment for the same reason. I wonder if it is legal for her to have goats where she lives? ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] What's the difference? (was Re: Intellectual dishonesty)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: So I'm wondering why it is that so many seem to feel so threatened and reactive when someone posts something here that suggests that they might be in the same position. I just don't get it. Could one of you who feels this way explain it to me? It seems the only one here that feels threatened is Barry Wright, threatened by the memories of an involvement with the TMO that happened more than thirty (30) years ago. Even if someone would explain everything to him he would not be able listen because his obsessions are to intervoven with his physiology by now that he would not be able to listen. And these days he feels especially very, very, very threatened because of the latest success of the TMO. It's probably the worst thing that could happen to him. Some people simply love their obsessions and fantasies and would not for any reason give them up - even after 30 years of indulding in them. Probably Dr.Peter could say a word or two about these conditions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
This discussion around intellectual dishonesty is interesting, but I'm more interested in the term'hysterical what do you mean by it's use? It's just a non-explanitory term like saying people who see UFO's are hypnotized. WTF does that mean? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 7, 2009, at 2:45 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Vaj wrote: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). That's because Christians are more naturally cheapskates than TMers are. Bet their heaven is full of bargain-basement junk, too. It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups.
[FairfieldLife] Re: and now for something completely different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Getting away from the Bash Judy, MMY, etc fest, I thought I'd promote (once again) my favorite time-waster: http://www.examiner.com/x-4734-Second-Life-Examiner~y2009m4d6-What-is-Second-Life-video You mean the bash Judy and MMY fest hasn't moved from this life yet? What are we waiting for, opportunites abound! Actually, I'd like to go live there, the streets are nice and clean and the people move in an extremely interesting way. You meet interesting people. For example, this is Which Linden, one of the engineers working on the system: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/431884271/ I can honestly say that would be the last thing I would choose as an alternative self, but he's sure to stand out from the crowds. Does the bamboo ambulate satisfactorily? Can we get a peep at the world without joining? He waddles for walking, and his branches lean forward to indicate typing. His office is a grove of bamboo with a few couches strewn around. His chair is a planter table between two of the couches It's all totally new to me. I had heard that it was poor graphically but that looks OK, I could engineer quite a good domain there I reckon. I bet it's all the sort of thing you can get highly addicted to very easily. Besides, I ought to get my first life sorted out first;-) Eh, the graphics certainly are not cutting edge, but they're better than a olot of relatively recent games. They have a policy of trying to suppot legacy hardware as far back as possible, so the default settings are pretty sad. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. That's a rather superficial point of view. It is entirely possible the whole thing was a false flag operation but I wouldn't be surprised if Dubya was out of the loop. False flag operations have been used throughout history to cause wars or make money for the war profiteers. They are pretty much standard operating procedure. The military industrial complex was hurting after the Cold War ended. They needed a new war to bolster their sagging profits. There were corporations and banks under scrutiny too (and those records conveniently got destroyed during 9-11). I think they all co-conspired with rogue right leaning military to create 9-11 and use the Arabs as patsies. It just makes too much sense that way and the official story does not. The whole think looks like it was cooked up by a think tank (complete with plan B, C, and Ds) and not by a bunch of Arabs in caves. As for Muslims, just like any other religion 85% of them pay lip service to it. Some I have known were only born Muslim and never practiced it. Muhammad invented Islam to rid the area of war lords back them. Now we find ourselves once again saddled with war lords and need to get rid of them. In this time the big war lords are the military industrial complex. We don't need a religion to do this, just the truth. Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris
Re: [FairfieldLife] Questions unanswered by Vaj
On Apr 7, 2009, at 1:48 PM, billy jim wrote: Vaj: One of the fastest ways, if not the fastest way to generate nondual samadhi is to learn the practice of nondual compassion meditation. It actually generates the same neurological signatures as advanced Patanjali meditators in samadhi. Too imprecise. Give us something substantive to consider. Since it's been discussed many times previously, the above seemed sufficient. People often wondered why people weren't wowed by EEG readings on meditators in the 70's, 80's and 90's and part of the reason was there was nothing remarkable to see. But way back in the 1950's (!) something remarkable did happen. Some researchers decided to hook up some Patanjali yogins in India to an EEG and see what happened when they voluntarily went into what their tradition called samadhi. What happened was so amazing, the researchers didn't believe it, since it had never been seen before. These yogis began producing a very fast and very coherent form of EEG waves called gamma waves or simply gamma. They at first thought it was an artifact. But they checked their equipment and all seemed well. They reported their findings and that was it. 50 years passed and this same pattern was never seen again, despite a spate of meditation research from the 60's through 2000. Nada. Then in 2001 at the Waisman Center in Wisconsin they were examining the different EEG characteristics of advanced Tibetan Buddhist meditators. During one such meditative state known as Mig- mé Nying- jé (dmigs med snying rje), non-referential compassion, a form of rig pa (Skt. vidya or pure wisdom mind), the (western) yogi began producing high amplitude gamma waves which were very coherent. The researchers, like the ones in the 50's, thought 'this must be some sort of EEG artifact. They checked the equipment. They placed electrodes on facial muscles to make sure they weren't causing it. It was the real deal. They'd finally replicated the findings of the Patanjali yogis from the 50's, but this time on a westerner. The same experiment has now been independently replicated in several labs. The experiment has also been applied to controls who learn the technique from scratch, and they too are able to begin to produce more humble results after only practicing a brief time. Since that time a longitudinal study, the most advanced meditation study in history actually, has been completed on two groups of novice shamatha practitioners practicing both meditation on an object-style shamatha and then shamatha in the Dzogchen style, over three months. The study produced a huge amount of data which should be released soon. Pictures of the EEG's I've seen, if representative, are amazing. But we'll see. I also suspect we'll see evidence of the reversal of aging at the cellular level. The style of meditation is what's now being called Open Presence, as opposed to more introverted, eyes closed meditation forms. It similar to meditation forms practiced in a number of traditions, typically with the eyes open. Later this year, a new retreat facility will open in Thailand, funded by a wealthy German businessman, which is dedicated to teaching these methods to anyone, from any religion (or no religion), starting with 80-day retreats at the beginning.
[FairfieldLife] Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm http://tinyurl.com/d36wah USA Today Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY A small but growing number of cash-strapped communities are printing their own money. Borrowing from a Depression-era idea, they are aiming to help consumers make ends meet and support struggling local businesses. The systems generally work like this: Businesses and individuals form a network to print currency. Shoppers buy it at a discount — say, 95 cents for $1 value — and spend the full value at stores that accept the currency. Workers with dwindling wages are paying for groceries, yoga classes and fuel with Detroit Cheers, Ithaca Hours in New York, Plenty in North Carolina or BerkShares in Massachusetts. Ed Collom, a University of Southern Maine sociologist who has studied local currencies, says they encourage people to buy locally. Merchants, hurting because customers have cut back on spending, benefit as consumers spend the local cash. We wanted to make new options available, says Jackie Smith of South Bend, Ind., who is working to launch a local currency. It reinforces the message that having more control of the economy in local hands can help you cushion yourself from the blows of the marketplace. About a dozen communities have local currencies, says Susan Witt, founder of BerkShares in the Berkshires region of western Massachusetts. She expects more to do it. Under the BerkShares system, a buyer goes to one of 12 banks and pays $95 for $100 worth of BerkShares, which can be spent in 370 local businesses. Since its start in 2006, the system, the largest of its kind in the country, has circulated $2.3 million worth of BerkShares. In Detroit, three business owners are printing $4,500 worth of Detroit Cheers, which they are handing out to customers to spend in one of 12 shops. During the Depression, local governments, businesses and individuals issued currency, known as scrip, to keep commerce flowing when bank closings led to a cash shortage. By law, local money may not resemble federal bills or be promoted as legal tender of the United States, says Claudia Dickens of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. We print the real thing, she says. The IRS gets its share. When someone pays for goods or services with local money, the income to the business is taxable, says Tom Ochsenschlager of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. It's not a way to avoid income taxes, or we'd all be paying in Detroit dollars, he says. Pittsboro, N.C., is reviving the Plenty, a defunct local currency created in 2002. It is being printed in denominations of $1, $5, $20 and $50. A local bank will exchange $9 for $10 worth of Plenty. We're a wiped-out small town in America, says Lyle Estill, president of Piedmont Biofuels, which accepts the Plenty. This will strengthen the local economy. ... The nice thing about the Plenty is that it can't leave here.
[FairfieldLife] Eh, Judy did you miss this: Questions about empathy for Judy
Judy, I was seriously hoping you'd try your hand at responding to the below. I thought it would give you a good shot at really showing the excellence of your red pencil. What happened? Isn't the concept empathy a big enough concept to chew on? Seems to me it's woven into all self-improvement scenarios. If one doesn't have a tight definition for such an important concept, then one is less able to determine if one is gaining more of or bettering this personality dynamic -- and, if so, then, it might be an indicator of spiritual refinement/progress. Just to be open, I think that if anything my empathy for others has moved out of the realm of having emotional processes to indicate the intensity of the dynamic, and, nowadays, I'm defining empathy more and more as awareness of another's inner state than as feeling the same feelings or remembering having had such feelings. To me, awareness is love/empathy, so the better I can see inside another, the more I'm empathetic by definition, whereas, my assumption that my emotions are-or-were-once the same as another maybe faulty. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: authfriend wrote: Thanks, Raunch. You don't even have to *like* a person to feel empathy for them. Goodness knows I've been tough on Ruth in other respects. But this time, I got a sense of almost desperation in her lament that I hadn't before. I hope I'm wrong. I hope she's not in as much pain as I intuited. Although in a very different context, I've been there, and I don't wish it on anybody. Same with Shemp, whom I don't care for much either, a week or so ago. And Kirk as well. Good for all three of them for being willing to share their unhappiness. That's healthy; it's a sign they're not going to let life get the better of them. Judy, Some of these questions overlap in that a complete and detailed answer to one of them might entail your answering some of the others, so go ahead and ignore a question if that's the case. 1. Isn't it more the case that almost everyone here has shared their emotional discomforts -- some more than others, yes -- but haven't almost all of us shown that we are emotionally invested in the issues of life and that sometimes these emotions spike to heights that can be called pain of some sort? And, hey just a damned second there, what am I -- chopped liver? -- that I'm not included in your listing? I demand to be put on your willing to share their unhappiness list 2. What are the conditions from which empathy will emerge within your mind? Er, is your empathy, in fact, conditional? Do you have more empathy for Ruth than for Barry? 3. When you experience empathy, what's that really mean? Is it mostly an emotion that's dancing in your attention, and can you label or name it? Or is it a set of concepts that are applied to the person with whom you're empathizing -- such as: a. I am confident that I know her emotions and I have felt this way too, so I'm empathizing. b. Her actions are what I feel I've done before, so I'm identifying with her situation enough to trigger my memories of my experiences when I've done those things, and that means some emotional material is remembered/uprising in me that I think are similar to her emotions. c. I don't have the tee shirt, ain't done that, but just now I've put myself in her place, with my imagination's powers' and I'm certain I've done this enough to generate some emotional dynamics within me such that I feel I've stepped into her shoes 'enough' to get what she's going through. d. My take is that she's so whacked that I pity her plight, and I call that empathy. 4. What are the major differences between pity and apathy to you? 5. Does a person have to be cognizant of their angst and know that they are up against a powerful dynamic that is difficult to quell for you to empathize, or can a person be, say, like Nab, who one might think is in a terrible psychological fix but is haughty and arrogant about their status and proud of it, and yet, still, you'll empathize? 6. When you do like a person, is empathy easier to generate? 7. What is the meaning of this word like? Is that caveman talk? You hairy dirty. Me hairy dirty. Ungaowa, me like you! Is liking merely the recognition of similarities, resonances? Or is liking more akin to the concept of love emanating 360 and bathing all with a glowing acceptance of exactly how any person presents? A combo of both maybe? 8. Is the expression of one's unhappiness always healthy or is that conditional also? It's one thing for a child to weep openly about a scratched knee, but it is another for that child to be talking about the pain of that scratch a year later, right? How fresh does a person's angst have to be for your empathy to kick in? If they're just endlessly getting into the same
[FairfieldLife] Re: Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm http://tinyurl.com/d36wah USA Today Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY A small but growing number of cash-strapped communities are printing their own money. Borrowing from a Depression-era idea, they are aiming to help consumers make ends meet and support struggling local businesses. The systems generally work like this: Businesses and individuals form a network to print currency. Shoppers buy it at a discount say, 95 cents for $1 value and spend the full value at stores that accept the currency. I haven't seen anything so formal here in Spain, but I did eat lunch the other day at a restaurant in Barcelona that allows you to pay whatever you can afford for the meal. This recession has been hard on restaurants here. Many in Sitges have closed. I have been told that the average yearly salary in Spain is a mere 12K Euros per year. That's not enough to eat out a lot. But lunch hours are two hours long, and if you lug along a sandwich you're finished in five minutes and miss all the socializing that goes on over a two-hour lunch at the workingmen's restaurants that *in normal times* serve a three course meal plus wine for only 7-10 Euros. I eat lunch at these restaurants a lot because the food is usually great. But lately the crowds have been getting smaller and smaller as more and more workers found themselves strapped for cash. But the Barcelona restaurant that allows its patrons to pay what they can afford? PACKED. And the owners report that people aren't stiffing them and paying nothing. They really DO pay what they can afford, and more important, THEY KEEP COMING BACK. The owners have been able to keep their restaurant alive and well when many neighboring restaurants have failed. They even say that they're making a little money on the whole deal. Not to mention a shitload of goodwill. Let's face it, if you were the family sitting at the table next to me the other day, a construction worker with a wife and three kids and you hadn't been able to take them out to a restaurant for several months and these guys allowed you to do that and leave 10 Euros for four meals, would YOU go back? Would this overnight become your favorite restaurant in the whole world and the people who run it the closest thing to saints you'd ever met? Looking around the place I found it difficult to keep tears out of my eyes. But the owners were smiling...
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. Vaj, I say, follow the money. Who made more money off of the towers? 1. Seems to me that BushCo and the military industrial complex made the money. 2. The Arabs already had the oil, so maybe they thought that a 9/11 would raise the cost of oil almost to $150/barrel, which it did, but that wouldn't be a certainty in 2001 nearly as much as guaranteed profit from stealing Iraq's oil and having the American Army guarding 1/3 of the world's oil for the eventual use of BushCo. 3. It is well known that Saddam was going to start using the Euro instead of the dollar, and that would have massively devalued the dollar in the short term. 4. The owner of Building 7 had some insurance scam to profit from. The towers had a lot of records -- the destruction of which could have gotten some profit for certain parties. 5. Building 7 had a ton of secrets too that the CIA, FBI et al might have wanted destroyed. I think that the explosive chemical found in the dust was way too sophisticated to have been anything but a military grade, nano-particle concoction that simply couldn't happen by chance in an explosion that may or may not have had material in the towers to combine. We'll see if Obama or others pick up on these particles of explosive or not. What with Obama slowing down the inquiry into the Bush torture memos etc., it seems to me that Obama's of the mind that says: Better that our precious American not have yet another black mark upon it. Let the Bush years fade a bit, and then I'll consider if we can take the impact of such a revelation. Or, Obama's been bought and paid for long ago. Or, once he got elected, the powers that be finally told him some of the secrets that, if they but were known, would entirely set our country into a neverending roiling. For instance, what would happen to America if any of the below was authoritatively announced? 1. That the towers' attack was entirely CIA or BushCo planned and executed. 2. Area 51 stuff like: Aliens are negotiating with the Chinese and won't talk to us anymore. Hee hee...what a concept, eh? 3. The 100 MPG carburetor, 4. The cheap way to make hydrogen, 5. The fact that our antibiotics are about to be so useless that half the world will die of disease in the next few years, etc. Or, he's got the burden of Lincoln and struggles mightily to get what can be gotten done for sure, and to hope that the future will give him opportunity to smack at some of the bigger targets. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amateur pictures of the Star
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ffl...@... wrote: All I got was a red 'x'. Can you send a link to some of the pics? http://tinyurl.com/cxfg7n
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Vaj wrote: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). That's because Christians are more naturally cheapskates than TMers are. Bet their heaven is full of bargain-basement junk, too. It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellectual dishonesty.
Raunchy: Yogic flying (hopping) is bliss bubbling up. As bubbles bubble up in the container of consciousness they pop and you hop. If the container were bigger, and consciousness unbounded, the bubbles wouldn't pop, they would float and so would the yogic flier. Since science hasn't explained anything about yogic flying, my explanation is just as valid as Ruth's, doncha think? Vaj: Actually the same phenomenon is seen in Charismatic Christianity (although it appears to be much less expensive). It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria as both TMSP'ers and their Christian counterparts favor large groups. RichardM: Presumably then it would follow that without the group the *effect* and side-effects would disappear? That's not been my experience. Vaj: Not necessarily. Many people practice Glossolalia privately in their own homes. There does however seem to be some preference for doing it en masse. Many here have commented on it preferentially in regards to the TMSP. Having group reinforcement of our beliefs is important, whether it's nudism, Glossolalia or NASCAR. Dunce Scotus: It's interesting because both seem to rely on some sort of group hysteria Dunderhead: But the effect can happen outside the group Dunce Scotus: Yes, Many people practice privately. Others prefer the group Dunderhead: So WTF are you saying?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions unanswered by Vaj
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 1:48 PM, billy jim wrote: Vaj: One of the fastest ways, if not the fastest way to generate nondual samadhi is to learn the practice of nondual compassion meditation. It actually generates the same neurological signatures as advanced Patanjali meditators in samadhi. Too imprecise. Give us something substantive to consider. Since it's been discussed many times previously, the above seemed sufficient. People often wondered why people weren't wowed by EEG readings on meditators in the 70's, 80's and 90's and part of the reason was there was nothing remarkable to see. But way back in the 1950's (!) something remarkable did happen. Some researchers decided to hook up some Patanjali yogins in India to an EEG and see what happened when they voluntarily went into what their tradition called samadhi. What happened was so amazing, the researchers didn't believe it, since it had never been seen before. These yogis began producing a very fast and very coherent form of EEG waves called gamma waves or simply gamma. They at first thought it was an artifact. But they checked their equipment and all seemed well. They reported their findings and that was it. So what makes gamma waves = good desirable? Or significant of anything profound? Sell 'em to me! (Some researchers do not distinguish gamma waves as a distinct class but include them in beta brain wavesBeta states are the states associated with normal waking consciousness...Low amplitude beta waves with multiple and varying frequencies are often associated with active, busy, or anxious thinking and active concentration) 50 years passed and this same pattern was never seen again, despite a spate of meditation research from the 60's through 2000. Nada. Then in 2001 at the Waisman Center in Wisconsin they were examining the different EEG characteristics of advanced Tibetan Buddhist meditators. During one such meditative state known as Mig- mé Nying- jé (dmigs med snying rje), non-referential compassion, a form of rig pa (Skt. vidya or pure wisdom mind), the (western) yogi began producing high amplitude gamma waves which were very coherent. The researchers, like the ones in the 50's, thought 'this must be some sort of EEG artifact. They checked the equipment. They placed electrodes on facial muscles to make sure they weren't causing it. It was the real deal. They'd finally replicated the findings of the Patanjali yogis from the 50's, but this time on a westerner. The same experiment has now been independently replicated in several labs. The experiment has also been applied to controls who learn the technique from scratch, and they too are able to begin to produce more humble results after only practicing a brief time. Since that time a longitudinal study, the most advanced meditation study in history actually, has been completed on two groups of novice shamatha practitioners practicing both meditation on an object-style shamatha and then shamatha in the Dzogchen style, over three months. The study produced a huge amount of data which should be released soon. Pictures of the EEG's I've seen, if representative, are amazing. But we'll see. I also suspect we'll see evidence of the reversal of aging at the cellular level. The style of meditation is what's now being called Open Presence, as opposed to more introverted, eyes closed meditation forms. It similar to meditation forms practiced in a number of traditions, typically with the eyes open. Later this year, a new retreat facility will open in Thailand, funded by a wealthy German businessman, which is dedicated to teaching these methods to anyone, from any religion (or no religion), starting with 80-day retreats at the beginning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. That's a rather superficial point of view. It is entirely possible the whole thing was a false flag operation but I wouldn't be surprised if Dubya was out of the loop. False flag operations have been used throughout history to cause wars or make money for the war profiteers. They are pretty much standard operating procedure. The military industrial complex was hurting after the Cold War ended. They needed a new war to bolster their sagging profits. There were corporations and banks under scrutiny too (and those records conveniently got destroyed during 9-11). I think they all co-conspired with rogue right leaning military to create 9-11 and use the Arabs as patsies. It just makes too much sense that way and the official story does not. The whole think looks like it was cooked up by a think tank (complete with plan B, C, and Ds) and not by a bunch of Arabs in caves. As for Muslims, just like any other religion 85% of them pay lip service to it. Some I have known were only born Muslim and never practiced it. Muhammad invented Islam to rid the area of war lords back them. Now we find ourselves once again saddled with war lords and need to get rid of them. In this time the big war lords are the military industrial complex. We don't need a religion to do this, just the truth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
menkemeyer menkeme...@... wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris Chris, H. Do you believe in any conspiracies? While the logic about 400 people being unable to police all their members enough to keep them all quiet is difficult to counter, I still cannot shake the intuition alarms that 100% start ringing whenever I attend to many of the various conspiracies. Not that I think there's a Bigfoot to be found or a UFO stored in Area 51, but that there can be no proof of a negative -- which leaves the conspiracy in a moot debate, and thus open to every manner of speculation. BTW, what part about follow the money didn't you get? What would be your bottom line price? What amount would bribe you? Given the hardness of the upbringing of some quite capable people, I have no trouble imagining a bought and paid for cabal of some sort. We know how hard it is to get prisoners to rat on each other or for our POWs to be tortured into making anti-USA statements -- certainly it's possible for some high IQ, black-ops, group to have made themselves into true believers that their drastic actions would better our country's homeland security, and, once done, they'd all have prison to face if they do come forward. We certainly have no trouble getting our troops to invade any country, so, why not a well rewarded group of true believers? Yeah, again, 400 is a lot of folks to keep handcuffed until they all die, and when they get older, they'll value their integrity more and their blind loyalties less, but that just means they have to be killed off too if they show any sign of being a whistle-blower. For the Y2K issue, we saw that virtually every single company refused to come forward and reveal the true state of their computers and what it would take to reprogram them. Somehow the nightmare never manifested, but, we can certainly learn that companies are paying their employees enough to keep them mum about such matters. That's pretty cheap as pay offs and bribes go, eh? Not that the electric companies were hiding anything, but that they showed the wherewithal to face the world with a blank stare and denial running at the redline. I attended a confrontation with the electric company during that time and shouted questions from the group -- the guy simply did what the TBs here do -- used every manner of obfuscation, weak answers, I don't know yet...I'll get back to you, diversions and outright lying. Yet, I'm sure he didn't get a bonus to cover his company's ass -- even though he was avoiding giving out complete truths. He knew if he told the true status that there'd be a much bigger chance at lawsuits etc. He was there to massage us until it was too late. Since nothing happened of note, it was all for naught, but some real life lines were drawn in the sand by some very underpaid folks. It doesn't take much to get someone to lie for someone else. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amateur pictures of the Star
If I send you to some Bigfoot Web site that has as many hazy photos of Bigfoot as your Creme has photos of The Star, will you believe in Bigfoot? Better yet, I believe you said that some astronomers had confirmed such sightings. Could you give us a link to ANY bone fide astronomer supporting The Star's reality? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fflmod@ wrote: All I got was a red 'x'. Can you send a link to some of the pics? http://tinyurl.com/cxfg7n
Re: [FairfieldLife] Intellectual dishonesty.
ruthsimplicity wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. The word dishonesty is loaded and is important when looking at this issue. snip I would consider being accused of intellectual dishonesty by Judy a compliment. It seems to be her only out when cornered. I also consider being called an asshole a compliment for the same reason. I wonder if it is legal for her to have goats where she lives? ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Questions unanswered by Vaj
I first heard about high amplitude gamma waves in meditation some years back. This was in a citation about research done on Kriya yogins, although I don't remember if anyone specified which particular lineage the meditators were affiliated with - maybe SRF. When Kriya yoga techniques are performed they are usually more rigorous than tm style but not rigorous in the way of hard core tsa-lung or Dummo. Probably they were tested during the cycling of the prana current, although maybe also in the silent space of receptivity after cycling. This would make a certain sense since gamma waves are associated with acute wakefulness and doing Kriya yoga requires this kind of active attentiveness during the technique. As a method it could be considered the opposite of tm style transcending techniques. When citing open-presence meditation, open-presence compassion and migmé nyingjé (non-referential compassion) you seem to be sourcing The Cambridge Handbook of Consciousness, Cambridge Univ. Press, 2007. Is this correct? Is this your primary source for this material or do you have other sourcing? Interesting articles by the way but at $150 a copy its library material. Still you haven't offered an explanation for why you believe neurological studies of brainwave activity are definitive sources of knowledge about higher states of consciousness - or about normal states for that matter. You seem to be making assumptions similar to TM proponents. That puts you in strange TB company. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 1:48 PM, billy jim wrote: Vaj: One of the fastest ways, if not the fastest way to generate nondual samadhi is to learn the practice of nondual compassion meditation. It actually generates the same neurological signatures as advanced Patanjali meditators in samadhi. Too imprecise. Give us something substantive to consider. Since it's been discussed many times previously, the above seemed sufficient. People often wondered why people weren't wowed by EEG readings on meditators in the 70's, 80's and 90's and part of the reason was there was nothing remarkable to see. But way back in the 1950's (!) something remarkable did happen. Some researchers decided to hook up some Patanjali yogins in India to an EEG and see what happened when they voluntarily went into what their tradition called samadhi. What happened was so amazing, the researchers didn't believe it, since it had never been seen before. These yogis began producing a very fast and very coherent form of EEG waves called gamma waves or simply gamma. They at first thought it was an artifact. But they checked their equipment and all seemed well. They reported their findings and that was it. 50 years passed and this same pattern was never seen again, despite a spate of meditation research from the 60's through 2000. Nada. Then in 2001 at the Waisman Center in Wisconsin they were examining the different EEG characteristics of advanced Tibetan Buddhist meditators. During one such meditative state known as Mig- mé Nying- jé (dmigs med snying rje), non-referential compassion, a form of rig pa (Skt. vidya or pure wisdom mind), the (western) yogi began producing high amplitude gamma waves which were very coherent. The researchers, like the ones in the 50's, thought 'this must be some sort of EEG artifact. They checked the equipment. They placed electrodes on facial muscles to make sure they weren't causing it. It was the real deal. They'd finally replicated the findings of the Patanjali yogis from the 50's, but this time on a westerner. The same experiment has now been independently replicated in several labs. The experiment has also been applied to controls who learn the technique from scratch, and they too are able to begin to produce more humble results after only practicing a brief time. Since that time a longitudinal study, the most advanced meditation study in history actually, has been completed on two groups of novice shamatha practitioners practicing both meditation on an object-style shamatha and then shamatha in the Dzogchen style, over three months. The study produced a huge amount of data which should be released soon. Pictures of the EEG's I've seen, if representative, are amazing. But we'll see. I also suspect we'll see evidence of the reversal of aging at the cellular level. The style of meditation is what's now being called Open Presence, as opposed to more introverted, eyes closed meditation forms. It similar to meditation forms practiced in a number of traditions, typically with the eyes open. Later this year, a new retreat facility will open in Thailand, funded by a wealthy German businessman, which is dedicated to teaching these methods to anyone, from any religion (or no religion), starting with 80-day retreats at the beginning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Questions unanswered by Vaj
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: The style of meditation is what's now being called Open Presence, as opposed to more introverted, eyes closed meditation forms. It similar to meditation forms practiced in a number of traditions, typically with the eyes open. Later this year, a new retreat facility will open in Thailand, funded by a wealthy German businessman, which is dedicated to teaching these methods to anyone, from any religion (or no religion), starting with 80-day retreats at the beginning. Is there a group? Googling Open Presence gets info about the study you've mentioned but not much more.
Fwd: [FairfieldLife] Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing
How is the RAM currency there in Fairfield what is it visa vie the euro Ram? From: l.shad...@gmail.com Reply-to: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/7/2009 2:08:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: [FairfieldLife] Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing _http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm_ (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm) _http://tinyurl.com/d36wah_ (http://tinyurl.com/d36wah) USA Today Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY A small but growing number of cash-strapped communities are printing their own money. Borrowing from a Depression-era idea, they are aiming to help consumers make ends meet and support struggling local businesses. The systems generally work like this: Businesses and individuals form a network to print currency. Shoppers buy it at a discount — say, 95 cents for $1 value — and spend the full value at stores that accept the currency. Workers with dwindling wages are paying for groceries, yoga classes and fuel with Detroit Cheers, Ithaca Hours in New York, Plenty in North Carolina or BerkShares in Massachusetts. Ed Collom, a University of Southern Maine sociologist who has studied local currencies, says they encourage people to buy locally. Merchants, hurting because customers have cut back on spending, benefit as consumers spend the local cash. We wanted to make new options available, says Jackie Smith of South Bend, Ind., who is working to launch a local currency. It reinforces the message that having more control of the economy in local hands can help you cushion yourself from the blows of the marketplace. About a dozen communities have local currencies, says Susan Witt, founder of BerkShares in the Berkshires region of western Massachusetts. She expects more to do it. Under the BerkShares system, a buyer goes to one of 12 banks and pays $95 for $100 worth of BerkShares, which can be spent in 370 local businesses. Since its start in 2006, the system, the largest of its kind in the country, has circulated $2.3 million worth of BerkShares. In Detroit, three business owners are printing $4,500 worth of Detroit Cheers, which they are handing out to customers to spend in one of 12 shops. During the Depression, local governments, businesses and individuals issued currency, known as scrip, to keep commerce flowing when bank closings led to a cash shortage. By law, local money may not resemble federal bills or be promoted as legal tender of the United States, says Claudia Dickens of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. We print the real thing, she says. The IRS gets its share. When someone pays for goods or services with local money, the income to the business is taxable, says Tom Ochsenschlager of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. It's not a way to avoid income taxes, or we'd all be paying in Detroit dollars, he says. Pittsboro, N.C., is reviving the Plenty, a defunct local currency created in 2002. It is being printed in denominations of $1, $5, $20 and $50. A local bank will exchange $9 for $10 worth of Plenty. We're a wiped-out small town in America, says Lyle Estill, president of Piedmont Biofuels, which accepts the Plenty. This will strengthen the local economy. ... The nice thing about the Plenty is that it can't leave here. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221421323x1201417385/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Questions unanswered by Vaj
On Apr 7, 2009, at 4:48 PM, emptybill wrote: I first heard about high amplitude gamma waves in meditation some years back. This was in a citation about research done on Kriya yogins, although I don't remember if anyone specified which particular lineage the meditators were affiliated with - maybe SRF. When Kriya yoga techniques are performed they are usually more rigorous than tm style but not rigorous in the way of hard core tsa- lung or Dummo. Probably they were tested during the cycling of the prana current, although maybe also in the silent space of receptivity after cycling. This would make a certain sense since gamma waves are associated with acute wakefulness and doing Kriya yoga requires this kind of active attentiveness during the technique. As a method it could be considered the opposite of tm style transcending techniques. When citing open-presence meditation, open-presence compassion and migmé nyingjé (non-referential compassion) you seem to be sourcing The Cambridge Handbook of Consciousness, Cambridge Univ. Press, 2007. Is this correct? No, the original paper is Long-term meditators self-induce high- amplitude gamma synchrony during mental practice Antoine Lutz, Lawrence L. Greischar, Nancy B. Rawlings, Matthieu Ricard, and Richard J. Davidson which appeared in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Since this paper they've gone on to map the neural networks in both Open Presence styles of meditation and introverted shamatha styles of samadhi (Focused Attention). They've also found that the brains acquisition of samadhi as a trait (traits become states) follows the same acquisition curve as other common human abilities (e.g. learning to talk, read or speak). Still you haven't offered an explanation for why you believe neurological studies of brainwave activity are definitive sources of knowledge about higher states of consciousness - or about normal states for that matter. You seem to be making assumptions similar to TM proponents. I didn't say they are definitive sources of knowledge about higher states of consciousness. They are the neural correlates of samadhi, replicated at last. It's the nonconventional experience of rigpa that's actually the most important thing, that the gentlemen could go into it at will, for as long as they wanted (several hours in some cases) and the gamma coherence followed over into waking state as well. It also appears to be an important mechanism for neuroplasticity, esp. in the areas of the brain associated with integrated brain functioning. In other words it helps the brain create it's own highly integrated network to maintain these states. It also activates a bunch of very beneficial parts of the brain, esp. those associated with happiness, unconditional empathy and positive emotions. It turns out all you really need is Love: the will to love is the law to live. Hopefully that answers some of Richard M's questions too. Shaddai, another term for Open Presence is Open Monitoring (OM).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Even bigger collection of concert clips.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Ringo looks good for 69 years old. OffWorld I agree. Or maybe I am getting old. ;) The clips I saw did not have the best sound quality so I can't speak to the voices. Mike Love still makes my want to gag though. Too smarmy. There are many, MANY stories of Love's smarminess. He used his so-called spritituality to get laid with as many TMing women as he could get hold of. Sounds like a typical rock star. Hmmm, that reminds me of some others. Bevan of course, not to mention MMY! So Bevan and MMY both are known to sleep with hundreds, if not thousands, of women, and have them line up outside their dressing room by the dozens so they can pick their favorites for the night? Those are your words Lawson, not mine. Hundreds? I doubt it. In MMY's case I would say the more accurate estimate would be 10 or 12. Hagelin? I have no idea other than the anecdotal evidence that has been reported many times here. Clearly, you don't like the message so you inflate it to absurd levels to better dismiss the thought. That's fine I suppose. speaking of inflating to absurd levels, you were the one who 'suggested that Mike Love's behavior was smarmy, presumably compared to all the other promiscious rock stars, and then suggested that MMY's behavior was in the same league. Lawson, you went off the rails starting with your presumably comment above. I didn't compare Mike Love's behavior to other promiscuous rock stars. I said that using his supposed spirituality to get laid was smarmy. And on this basis MMY's actions were in the same league. ok, assuming of course, that the rumors are true. L
[FairfieldLife] Two new letters written by religious leaders on TM, Judaism and Mormon
From: David Orme-Johnson [mailto:davi...@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 4:02 PM To: 'David Orme-Johnson' Subject: Two new letters written by religious leaders on TM, Judaism and Mormon Dear Colleagues, Here are two profound new letters on the Transcendental Meditation program by religious leaders, one from Judaism, and the other from Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which I have just posted on my Web site. http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/IndividualEffects/IsTMaReligion/ReligiousL eaders/index.cfm#Top All the best, David Judaism Senior Rabbi Allan Green, March 13, 2009 To Whom It May Concern: The first thing I want to say about my thirty-seven year practice of the Transcendental Meditation program is that I never would have become a rabbi without it. Transcendental Meditation saved my Jewish life. How so? The short story is that in addition to its many other benefits, verified by over 600 scientific studies, the Transcendental Meditation (TM) technique allowed me to grasp the truths of the tradition in which I was raised at a much deeper level than otherwise would have been possible. I know this to be true based on the increased mental, emotional and spiritual clarity, which I experienced coming directly from my daily practice of TM. Because of the results I gained from the technique, I spontaneously grew in my understanding of Judaism, with its profound love of God, its deep appreciation for His universe, and its longing for the creation of a just society and a peaceful world. At the same time, I would emphasize that TM is truly universal. Anyone of any age, education, or cultural background can practice TM effortlessly and successfully, without any change in personal beliefs or lifestyle. I have found that with the regular practice of TM, people not only become calmer, more energetic and creative than before, but they also grow in love, compassion, ethical sensitivity, and appreciation for their respective religious traditions. All too often, these ideals prevail far more in theory than in practice. But the TM program gently, effectively transforms these ideals into living realities. Therefore, I would recommend the practice of Transcendental Meditation to any student or teacher of Judaism (or indeed, of any religion) interested in living the highest ideals of their tradition in everyday life. In the words of the rabbis, May we then find grace and enlightenment, in the eyes of both God and humankind. Very sincerely yours, Allan Green Senior Rabbi, Shaarey Haarey Zedek Synagogue Winnipeg, MB Canada Mormon, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints High Priest Marc Stephens, March 19, 2009. To Mormons and all people of faith, I grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. At the age of fifteen, I temporarily left because I had questions that were not answered, and I was told to just have faith. I was unsatisfied. After I had been practicing Transcendental Meditation (TM) for years and with personal advice from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, I returned to the Mormon Church at the age of thirty-two. With the regular practice of TM, I experienced spiritual growth that gave me a new appreciation of the Gospel and the scriptures. I remember reading the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 88: 6-13, and I exclaimed to my wife, My gosh, do they know what they have? The founder of the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, said The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. TM provides the direct experience of our inner divine nature, light and truth, the field of pure intelligence. This state of pure intelligence or consciousness is what some contemporary brain research scientists have called the Fourth State of Consciousness. It is called a fourth state because it is distinct from the common waking, dreaming, and sleeping states of consciousness in terms of brain wave measurements and many other physiological measures. In the last 38 years, hundreds of scientific studies have documented the health benefits, increased creativity, intelligence, and harmonious relationships that result from the experience of this field of unbounded pure Being, the pure intelligence within each of us. President Hinckley said continually, The essence of Divinity is within us, (October, 1993 General Conference) and he has encouraged every member of our faith to Rise to the divinity within [us] (October, 2002 General Conference). An essential component of the Gospel is the principle of seeking further light and knowledge. Brigham Young explained that It is our duty and calling, to gather up all the truths in the world... and bring it to Zion. Further, he said, All knowledge and wisdom and every good that the heart of man can desire is within the circuit and circle of the faith we have embraced. It is important to emphasize that the practice of TM does not require any change in one's religious beliefs or practices; it simply enables one to directly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalization. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
[FairfieldLife] Kumar does the White House
Could you have imaged this during the Bush administration? Penn has even played an Islamic terrorist on 24 a couple seasons back. Though his character was just killed off on 'House,' fans of Kal Penn can expect to see the actor-turned-government employee around --in his new job as a public liaison with President Obama's White House. http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kumar_leaves_Whitecastle_for_White_House_0407.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Intellectual dishonesty.
We always seem to be getting her goat. ;-) drpetersutphen wrote: Goats? :) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 7, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: ruthsimplicity wrote: I have been accused of intellectual dishonesty when I expressed my impression that people at the siddhis course exhibited hysteria. The word dishonesty is loaded and is important when looking at this issue. snip I would consider being accused of intellectual dishonesty by Judy a compliment. It seems to be her only out when cornered. I also consider being called an asshole a compliment for the same reason. I wonder if it is legal for her to have goats where she lives? ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two new letters written by religious leaders on TM, Judaism and Mormon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: David Orme-Johnson [mailto:davi...@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 4:02 PM To: 'David Orme-Johnson' Subject: Two new letters written by religious leaders on TM, Judaism and Mormon Dear Colleagues, Here are two profound new letters on the Transcendental Meditation program by religious leaders, one from Judaism, and the other from Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which I have just posted on my Web site. http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/IndividualEffects/IsTMaReligion/ReligiousL eaders/index.cfm#Top All the best, David Judaism Senior Rabbi Allan Green, March 13, 2009 To Whom It May Concern: The first thing I want to say about my thirty-seven year practice of the Transcendental Meditation program is that I never would have become a rabbi without it. Transcendental Meditation saved my Jewish life. How so? The short story is that in addition to its many other benefits, verified by over 600 scientific studies, the Transcendental Meditation (TM) technique allowed me to grasp the truths of the tradition in which I was raised at a much deeper level than otherwise would have been possible. I know this to be true based on the increased mental, emotional and spiritual clarity, which I experienced coming directly from my daily practice of TM. Because of the results I gained from the technique, I spontaneously grew in my understanding of Judaism, with its profound love of God, its deep appreciation for His universe, and its longing for the creation of a just society and a peaceful world. At the same time, I would emphasize that TM is truly universal. Anyone of any age, education, or cultural background can practice TM effortlessly and successfully, without any change in personal beliefs or lifestyle. I have found that with the regular practice of TM, people not only become calmer, more energetic and creative than before, but they also grow in love, compassion, ethical sensitivity, and appreciation for their respective religious traditions. All too often, these ideals prevail far more in theory than in practice. But the TM program gently, effectively transforms these ideals into living realities. Therefore, I would recommend the practice of Transcendental Meditation to any student or teacher of Judaism (or indeed, of any religion) interested in living the highest ideals of their tradition in everyday life. In the words of the rabbis, May we then find grace and enlightenment, in the eyes of both God and humankind. Very sincerely yours, Allan Green Senior Rabbi, Shaarey Haarey Zedek Synagogue Winnipeg, MB Canada Mormon, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints High Priest Marc Stephens, March 19, 2009. To Mormons and all people of faith, I grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. At the age of fifteen, I temporarily left because I had questions that were not answered, and I was told to just have faith. I was unsatisfied. After I had been practicing Transcendental Meditation (TM) for years and with personal advice from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, I returned to the Mormon Church at the age of thirty-two. With the regular practice of TM, I experienced spiritual growth that gave me a new appreciation of the Gospel and the scriptures. I remember reading the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 88: 6-13, and I exclaimed to my wife, My gosh, do they know what they have? The founder of the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, said The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. TM provides the direct experience of our inner divine nature, light and truth, the field of pure intelligence. This state of pure intelligence or consciousness is what some contemporary brain research scientists have called the Fourth State of Consciousness. It is called a fourth state because it is distinct from the common waking, dreaming, and sleeping states of consciousness in terms of brain wave measurements and many other physiological measures. In the last 38 years, hundreds of scientific studies have documented the health benefits, increased creativity, intelligence, and harmonious relationships that result from the experience of this field of unbounded pure Being, the pure intelligence within each of us. President Hinckley said continually, The essence of Divinity is within us, (October, 1993 General Conference) and he has encouraged every member of our faith to Rise to the divinity within [us] (October, 2002 General Conference). An essential component of the Gospel is the principle of seeking further light and knowledge. Brigham Young explained that It is our duty and calling, to gather up all the truths in the world... and bring it to Zion. Further, he said, All knowledge and wisdom and every good that the heart of man can desire is within the circuit and circle of the faith we have embraced.
[FairfieldLife] Libya's Gaddafi says fears Obama assassination
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5365VK20090407?feedType=RSSfeedName=worldNewsrpc=22sp=true http://tinyurl.com/dyqcsp [image: Reuters] http://www.reuters.com/home Libya's Gaddafi says fears Obama assassination Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:18pm EDT SIRTE, Libya (Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi Tuesday called Barack Obama a flicker of hope in the middle of the imperialist darkness, but said he feared the president could be assassinated. Gaddafi, known for his controversial statements, did not say who might want to kill Obama but gave the examples of the assassinations of Presidents John F. Kennedy and Abraham Lincoln, as well as black rights leader Martin Luther King. I fear that they could liquidate this young man or force him to submit to their imperialist policies, Gaddafi told a university gathering of his supporters in Sirte, without specifying who might put Obama under pressure. Obama is a flicker of hope in the middle of the imperialist darkness, the Libyan leader said, adding: There is a fear that they would liquidate him as they liquidated Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Abraham Lincoln. Gaddafi, who is the African Union chairman, had offered to work with Obama to sustain security, stability and prosperity in Africa and elsewhere. Gaddafi praised Obama for breaking with what he said was the previous American foreign policy that dictated to the rest of the world what to do to serve U.S. interests. He (Obama) speaks logically. Arrogance no longer exists in the American approach which was previously based on dictating to the rest of the world in order to meet its own conditions, Gaddafi said in the remarks carried by state media. Gaddafi, who took power in 1969 in a military coup in his oil- and gas-rich North African state, was shunned for decades by the West, which accused him of supporting terrorism. His ties with Western countries have improved since Libya announced in 2003 it was scrapping weapons of mass destruction programs and agreed to pay compensation for families of victims of bombings of U.S. and French airliners. (Writing by Lamine Ghanmi)
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Apr 04 00:00:00 2009 End Date (UTC): Sat Apr 11 00:00:00 2009 496 messages as of (UTC) Tue Apr 07 23:10:24 2009 48 authfriend jst...@panix.com 37 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 37 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com 36 sparaig lengli...@cox.net 23 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 23 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 20 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 20 I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com 19 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 18 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 16 ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com 15 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 15 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 13 geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com 12 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 12 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 12 Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com 11 Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com 10 off_world_beings no_re...@yahoogroups.com 10 Nelson nelsonriddle2...@yahoo.com 7 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com 6 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 5 wle...@aol.com 5 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 4 shempmcgurk shempmcg...@netscape.net 4 guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@yahoo.com 4 dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 4 bob_brigante no_re...@yahoogroups.com 4 arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com 4 Richard M compost...@yahoo.co.uk 3 uns_tressor uns_tres...@yahoo.ca 3 shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca 3 jimjim5886 jimjim5...@yahoo.com 3 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 3 billy jim emptyb...@yahoo.com 3 Kirk kirk_bernha...@cox.net 3 grate.swan no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 michael vedamer...@yahoo.de 2 drpetersutphen drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 2 Theo Fehr t.f...@tm-independent.de 2 Rick risro...@yahoo.com 2 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 1 satvadude108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 pranamoocher bh...@hotmail.com 1 menkemeyer menkeme...@yahoo.com 1 gregg_g no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 ffl...@yahoo.com 1 at_man_and_brahman at_man_and_brah...@sbcglobal.net 1 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com 1 Elfi Pietsch elfriede.piet...@gmx.de 1 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com 1 min.pige min.p...@yahoo.com 1 Hagen J. Holtz hagen.j.ho...@t-online.de Posters: 53 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
Which post are you referring to? Arhata Osho wrote: One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
