[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. In the first big study of NDE's it was discovered that of the people who meet relatives only two thirds meet the already deceased. The rest meet people who are still alive, which underlines the wholly subjective nature of the phenomenon. And there isn't much in it that I haven't experienced from meditation let alone hallucinogen experiments. It's all in the mind guys... ___ From: Yifu yifuxero@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. In the first big study of NDE's it was discovered that of the people who meet relatives only two thirds meet the already deceased. The rest meet people who are still alive, which underlines the wholly subjective nature of the phenomenon. And there isn't much in it that I haven't experienced from meditation let alone hallucinogen experiments. It's all in the mind guys... ___ From: Yifu yifuxero@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all. And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. From: Yifu yifuxero@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Somehow.it's an amazing thing, the soul:) From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander I have been in the presence of someone who regularly suffered intense migraines, and someone else just after they had an NDE. The obvious difference in both was the sense of peace and acceptance experienced during the NDE, though superficial aspects of the experiences may sound similar. The assumption by Shermer is that the physical existence he experiences is the constant, with any existence beyond that, unknowable. This is the view of life, with death as its foundation. The alternative, that of life as its own foundation, is living the soul within to be the reality, and watching as it takes on a temporary vehicle, currently this body, aligns to it, and sets up a dynamic of Self awareness. Then after a hundred years or so, this body wears out, and the soul shimmers out of it, and continues its journey of self knowledge, somehow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely.
[FairfieldLife] Removed TED talk!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled.  One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard I've no doubt it's a wonderful story but I've read those before. Unless you can *unprove* that people meet relatives who are still alive (remember it was the experiencers who claim this) all you do is add to the mythos. So why would I need to read *another* book about something when the first objective one demonstrated that the experience wasn't what people thought it was? This is how you have to treat claims of the paranormal, first you see if there is a signal above the noise - something you can't account for any other way. In the NDE there isn't. But research is being carried out in hospitals and it's inconclusive to say the least. Most Out of Body Experiences are explainable by taking the timing of anaesthetic withdrawal into account, because people are paying attention to this and collating statements from care staff there is less chance of someone saying but I was clinically dead so it *can't* be my brain. In several cases things people have spookily witnessed could be accounted for by what was occurring around them when medical procedures were taking place. Obviously people aren't always as out of it as was thought. Maybe that explains why so few have NDE's? Another good study taking place is objects being placed on high shelves so that people who are floating out of their bodies can report what they cannot have seen any other way. The idea for this came about because someone having a claimed OBE allegedly saw a training shoe outside on a window sill that he couldn't have seen from where he was. The plural of anecdote is not data though and no one has yet followed up with a hit on whatever these objects are. That's the way with paranormal research, early hope turns into disappointment when data gets stronger. Nail down the variables, like how long it takes to come off anaesthetic, and the amount of undeniably unexplainable experiences diminishes rapidly. It was always thus. I suspect the NDE belief will run and run as peoples desire to have confirmation of life after death is going to be good at papering over any cracks as you demonstrated in dismissing my point about seeing living relatives as well as dead ones. To the objective mind that's a clincher. So please don't assume that my placing NDE's in the Bollocks file means it was put there because it simply doesn't fit in with the way I see the world. The way I see things came about because the mystical world failed to make a good enough case for itself. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. àCan you believe I just finished this book? àEben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things. àHow would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. In the first big study of NDE's it was discovered that of the people who meet relatives only two thirds meet the already deceased. The rest meet people who are still alive, which underlines the wholly subjective nature of the phenomenon. And there isn't much in it that I haven't experienced from meditation let alone
Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around. From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of an imaginary person writing about imaginary places and events, though Ann and Curtis seem reasonably real. But of course I can't be sure. Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. Â One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard I've no doubt it's a wonderful story but I've read those before. Unless you can *unprove* that people meet relatives who are still alive (remember it was the experiencers who claim this) all you do is add to the mythos. So why would I need to read *another* book about something when the first objective one demonstrated that the experience wasn't what people thought it was? This is how you have to treat claims of the paranormal, first you see if there is a signal above the noise - something you can't account for any other way. In the NDE there isn't. But research is being carried out in hospitals and it's inconclusive to say the least. Most Out of Body Experiences are explainable by taking the timing of anaesthetic withdrawal into account, because people are paying attention to this and collating statements from care staff there is less chance of someone saying but I was clinically dead so it *can't* be my brain. In several cases things people have spookily witnessed could be accounted for by what was occurring around them when medical procedures were taking place. Obviously people aren't always as out of it as was thought. Maybe that explains why so few have NDE's? Another good study taking place is objects being placed on high shelves so that people who are floating out of their bodies can report what they cannot have seen any other way. The idea for this came about because someone having a claimed OBE allegedly saw a training shoe outside on a window sill that he couldn't have seen from where he was. The plural of anecdote is not data though and no one has yet followed up with a hit on whatever these objects are. That's the way with paranormal research, early hope turns into disappointment when data gets stronger. Nail down the variables, like how long it takes to come off anaesthetic, and the amount of undeniably unexplainable experiences diminishes rapidly. It was always thus. I suspect the NDE belief will run and run as peoples desire to have confirmation of life after death is going to be good at papering over any cracks as you demonstrated in dismissing my point about seeing living relatives as well as dead ones. To the objective mind that's a clincher. So please don't assume that my placing NDE's in the Bollocks file means it was put there because it simply doesn't fit in with the way I see the world. The way I see things came about because the mystical world failed to make a good enough case for itself. Excellent summation of the case against taking NDE's seriously, at least without stronger evidence. Thanks especially for this last paragraph. Those who tend to believe things simply because they WANT to believe them (for example, that there is life after death) often accuse non-believers of being cynical or not open to the things they believe. Your statement is far more precise than such accusations. It's not that we're not open to such things. Who *wouldn't* want to believe that there is life after death? But in the absence of non-anecdotal proof, it's really silly to treat such a desire as being reflective of reality. The overreaction of those whose approach to life is belief-based rather than proof-based is something that those of us who lean more to the latter get used to, and have to deal with. The belief-based folks feel somehow *threatened* when someone points out that they believe in something that is sadly lacking in proof (such as NDEs) or unprovable (such as the existence of God). Rather than being able to accept that they *are* relying on belief they tend to lash out at the non-believers and characterize them as if there is something wrong with them. There isn't. They just have higher standards than the belief-based folks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
dear Xeno, following in your footsteps I had this RWC joke squashed: I am Curtis; Ravi is Barry. What can I do? my result: IC RB Wo? Squashing has as if rendered me whole! I no longer need you to be my Guru but along with Ravi, I will always love you and be grateful. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of an imaginary person writing about imaginary places and events, though Ann and Curtis seem reasonably real. But of course I can't be sure. Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Somehow.it's an amazing thing, the soul:) Hey, Em, thanks for sharing your find. You seem to have a struck a nerve here in some quarters. Some look for what appear to be surface inconsistencies, not realizing those inconsistencies can often be resolved by a deeper understanding of the situation. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  I have been in the presence of someone who regularly suffered intense migraines, and someone else just after they had an NDE. The obvious difference in both was the sense of peace and acceptance experienced during the NDE, though superficial aspects of the experiences may sound similar. The assumption by Shermer is that the physical existence he experiences is the constant, with any existence beyond that, unknowable. This is the view of life, with death as its foundation. The alternative, that of life as its own foundation, is living the soul within to be the reality, and watching as it takes on a temporary vehicle, currently this body, aligns to it, and sets up a dynamic of Self awareness. Then after a hundred years or so, this body wears out, and the soul shimmers out of it, and continues its journey of self knowledge, somehow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
Hey, at least he's gotten into doing some research with regard to his postings. That's a new twist. And aren't we sorely tried to find something new in anything he posts? Like he's found a new pastime. As Edg would say, Good on ya Ravi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around.    From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of an imaginary person writing about imaginary places and events, though Ann and Curtis seem reasonably real. But of course I can't be sure. Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled.  One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard I've no doubt it's a wonderful story but I've read those before. Unless you can *unprove* that people meet relatives who are still alive (remember it was the experiencers who claim this) all you do is add to the mythos. So why would I need to read *another* book about something when the first objective one demonstrated that the experience wasn't what people thought it was? This is how you have to treat claims of the paranormal, first you see if there is a signal above the noise - something you can't account for any other way. In the NDE there isn't. But research is being carried out in hospitals and it's inconclusive to say the least. Most Out of Body Experiences are explainable by taking the timing of anaesthetic withdrawal into account, because people are paying attention to this and collating statements from care staff there is less chance of someone saying but I was clinically dead so it *can't* be my brain. In several cases things people have spookily witnessed could be accounted for by what was occurring around them when medical procedures were taking place. Obviously people aren't always as out of it as was thought. Maybe that explains why so few have NDE's? Another good study taking place is objects being placed on high shelves so that people who are floating out of their bodies can report what they cannot have seen any other way. The idea for this came about because someone having a claimed OBE allegedly saw a training shoe outside on a window sill that he couldn't have seen from where he was. The plural of anecdote is not data though and no one has yet followed up with a hit on whatever these objects are. That's the way with paranormal research, early hope turns into disappointment when data gets stronger. Nail down the variables, like how long it takes to come off anaesthetic, and the amount of undeniably unexplainable experiences diminishes rapidly. It was always thus. I suspect the NDE belief will run and run as peoples desire to have confirmation of life after death is going to be good at papering over any cracks as you demonstrated in dismissing my point about seeing living relatives as well as dead ones. To the objective mind that's a clincher. So please don't assume that my placing NDE's in the Bollocks file means it was put there because it simply doesn't fit in with the way I see the world. The way I see things came about because the mystical world failed to make a good enough case for itself. Here is an example of someone being gracious and taking the time to explain clearly and concisely, without rudeness, why they feel like they feel. A couple people might want to take note and try and see how nice it is to read viewpoints when they are expressed without slamming what someone else believes.That is all class, your are dismissed. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. àCan you believe I just finished this book? àEben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things. àHow would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Somehow.it's an amazing thing, the soul:) Hey, Em, thanks for sharing your find. You seem to have a struck a nerve here in some quarters. Some look for what appear to be surface inconsistencies, not realizing those inconsistencies can often be resolved by a deeper understanding of the situation. Said like the very nice, sensitive man that you are Steve. You are a gentle/man. Sometimes intention and feeling of the writer behind a post is far more interesting to me than what they are actually saying. You came through loud and clear there. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  I have been in the presence of someone who regularly suffered intense migraines, and someone else just after they had an NDE. The obvious difference in both was the sense of peace and acceptance experienced during the NDE, though superficial aspects of the experiences may sound similar. The assumption by Shermer is that the physical existence he experiences is the constant, with any existence beyond that, unknowable. This is the view of life, with death as its foundation. The alternative, that of life as its own foundation, is living the soul within to be the reality, and watching as it takes on a temporary vehicle, currently this body, aligns to it, and sets up a dynamic of Self awareness. Then after a hundred years or so, this body wears out, and the soul shimmers out of it, and continues its journey of self knowledge, somehow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all.  And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science.  From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. àCan you believe I just finished this book? àEben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things. àHow would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. From: Yifu yifuxero@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander àAllegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
The thing that is so fucking interesting about you is how many opinions you have that aren't substantiated by much, even the experience of reading someone else's experience. Do you really think that the title of the book or the assumption that the book is about NDE's is what is important? I will look up the word laywoman - ha. That's funny. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
The title is the worse part of the book. Did you read it? The point of the book isn't actually his NDE. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all.  And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science.  From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. From: Yifu yifuxero@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bhairitu will enjoy this
Thank you to Doc, Alex and noozguru for all the great info. Let me tell you of my adventures yesterday with Verizon the Obsequious. For my first foray they used the Bold Strategy of having me be hung up on while waiting for Customer Service. But being the dauntless lass that FFL has made me, gratitude all around, I dialed in again, waffled through the automated menu and this time got an actual person! Christian. Christian who kept putting me on hold. And then thanking me for being patient when he returned. Dear Christian of course had no way of knowing that I loathe and detest when someone, even in 3D life, thanks me for being patient. What in God's name makes them think I'm being patient?! I'm pure pitta for God's sake! There's not a patient bone in my body. Instead I follow Mark Russell's advice that the secret of patience is to do something else in the meantime. Now that's a strategy dear to any pitta's heart. But back to Verizon. Then Christian passed me to another person, Michelle. Michelle with the Bad Customer Karma, where Bad refers both to the Customer, Me, and to her Karma. Anyway, she made it clear how lucky I was that we didn't have to wait 72 hours to access my account history. They quickly located my December 2012 balance which was $208.25! But, you gotta love how the buts keep coming, but I had to buy another month for $15 to even find out if they would credit my account! So I did. Then she announced the total fee, $16.38 which dismayed me because for 8 1/2 years, as I told the hapless Michelle, the monthly amount with taxes was $16.05. She floundered about, probably thinking at this point that I was a test customer. Rather than simply a testy one ha ha. We soldiered on, she put me on hold again, thanked me again for about the 6 billionth time for being patient and then informed me that the amount was not only too high for her to authorize but also too high for her supervisor to authorize! Talk about cults! Soo, I will have to wait, patient person that they think I am, probably another 72 hours to see if I get the $208.25 credited back to my account. They now know that I got other options. But if they don't do what's right, by gum, I'm outta there and may they spend my $224.63 in good health. Poor little Verizon, I had no idea they were so strapped for cash! From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bhairitu will enjoy this Better known as customer retention and also works with cable companies. ;-) You can get all kinds of unadvertised deals this way. Just say you're going to walk. On 03/25/2013 01:07 PM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Whoooa. Call up Verizon, and get a real person on the phone, and explain your situation. Very much worth it. They will both work with you to fix your problem, and often have packages to offer you that aren't advertised. You have been a customer for eight years and they know that. Remind them if necessary. I just went through getting my DSL + landline (att) and cell phone(t-mobile) coverage waaay down. With t-mobile I avoided a $200 contract termination fee, and was able to xfer to a much cheaper plan w/o contract, and free texting for 2 years. My father-in-law using Virgin Mobile just received two years of free service, because they f*cked up his account. What I do whenever I am negotiating for better price or service is find a competing offer, and let the incumbent know it, in addition to mentioning any inconvenience I have suffered with current service. It works! Happy hunting. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: noozguru, any feedback appreciated. Here's the situation: Verizon basically stole $200 from me. I've had their plan for 8 years. Only use cell phone when I travel so that means hardly at all. To keep it active I must buy at least $15 worth of time every month which I do. In December I added $15 and had a little over $200 on the acct. But I forgot to renew in time, mainly because of the holidays. And guess what? Now my account is zero! And trying to reach them by phone is a nightmare. I have emailed but hold out no hope for a reply. So I'm outta there! Meanwhile just at the right time, I received an ad from AARP for their cell phone service, Consumer Cellular. $60 for a senior friendly phone and both a $10 and $15 monthly plan. I mean really, I don't want to have to put on my reading glasses to use my cell phone, especially when I'm in the car! AAA also offers a $10 month plan with Affinity Cellular. Are these what you're calling scammy contract phones? Would T Mobile give good coverage both in Iowa and in Maryland when I visit my family? Thanks for any info.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
“The infidelity of the Gentile world, and that more especially of men of rank and learning in it, is resolved into a principle which, in my judgment, will account for the inefficacy of any argument, or any evidence whatever, viz. contempt prior to examination.” William Paley From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:40 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled.  One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard I've no doubt it's a wonderful story but I've read those before. Unless you can *unprove* that people meet relatives who are still alive (remember it was the experiencers who claim this) all you do is add to the mythos. So why would I need to read *another* book about something when the first objective one demonstrated that the experience wasn't what people thought it was? This is how you have to treat claims of the paranormal, first you see if there is a signal above the noise - something you can't account for any other way. In the NDE there isn't. But research is being carried out in hospitals and it's inconclusive to say the least. Most Out of Body Experiences are explainable by taking the timing of anaesthetic withdrawal into account, because people are paying attention to this and collating statements from care staff there is less chance of someone saying but I was clinically dead so it *can't* be my brain. In several cases things people have spookily witnessed could be accounted for by what was occurring around them when medical procedures were taking place. Obviously people aren't always as out of it as was thought. Maybe that explains why so few have NDE's? Another good study taking place is objects being placed on high shelves so that people who are floating out of their bodies can report what they cannot have seen any other way. The idea for this came about because someone having a claimed OBE allegedly saw a training shoe outside on a window sill that he couldn't have seen from where he was. The plural of anecdote is not data though and no one has yet followed up with a hit on whatever these objects are. That's the way with paranormal research, early hope turns into disappointment when data gets stronger. Nail down the variables, like how long it takes to come off anaesthetic, and the amount of undeniably unexplainable experiences diminishes rapidly. It was always thus. I suspect the NDE belief will run and run as peoples desire to have confirmation of life after death is going to be good at papering over any cracks as you demonstrated in dismissing my point about seeing living relatives as well as dead ones. To the objective mind that's a clincher. So please don't assume that my placing NDE's in the Bollocks file means it was put there because it simply doesn't fit in with the way I see the world. The way I see things came about because the mystical world failed to make a good enough case for itself. Here is an example of someone being gracious and taking the time to explain clearly and concisely, without rudeness, why they feel like they feel. A couple people might want to take note and try and see how nice it is to read viewpoints when they are expressed without slamming what someone else believes. That is all class, your are dismissed. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Whoops - this was meant for Salyavin808. This book was interesting to me, not with respect to proving or disproving the phenomena of NDE's, but rather, the way it forced him to completely re-evaluate his assumptions as a scientist and the efforts he went to to reconcile his beliefs about the world and life with his experience. It's a great little story for many reasons, not just the obvious. From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander “The infidelity of the Gentile world, and that more especially of men of rank and learning in it, is resolved into a principle which, in my judgment, will account for the inefficacy of any argument, or any evidence whatever, viz. contempt prior to examination.” William Paley From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:40 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled.  One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard I've no doubt it's a wonderful story but I've read those before. Unless you can *unprove* that people meet relatives who are still alive (remember it was the experiencers who claim this) all you do is add to the mythos. So why would I need to read *another* book about something when the first objective one demonstrated that the experience wasn't what people thought it was? This is how you have to treat claims of the paranormal, first you see if there is a signal above the noise - something you can't account for any other way. In the NDE there isn't. But research is being carried out in hospitals and it's inconclusive to say the least. Most Out of Body Experiences are explainable by taking the timing of anaesthetic withdrawal into account, because people are paying attention to this and collating statements from care staff there is less chance of someone saying but I was clinically dead so it *can't* be my brain. In several cases things people have spookily witnessed could be accounted for by what was occurring around them when medical procedures were taking place. Obviously people aren't always as out of it as was thought. Maybe that explains why so few have NDE's? Another good study taking place is objects being placed on high shelves so that people who are floating out of their bodies can report what they cannot have seen any other way. The idea for this came about because someone having a claimed OBE allegedly saw a training shoe outside on a window sill that he couldn't have seen from where he was. The plural of anecdote is not data though and no one has yet followed up with a hit on whatever these objects are. That's the way with paranormal research, early hope turns into disappointment when data gets stronger. Nail down the variables, like how long it takes to come off anaesthetic, and the amount of undeniably unexplainable experiences diminishes rapidly. It was always thus. I suspect the NDE belief will run and run as peoples desire to have confirmation of life after death is going to be good at papering over any cracks as you demonstrated in dismissing my point about seeing living relatives as well as dead ones. To the objective mind that's a clincher. So please don't assume that my placing NDE's in the Bollocks file means it was put there because it simply doesn't fit in with the way I see the world. The way I see things came about because the mystical world failed to make a good enough case for itself. Here is an example of someone being gracious and taking the time to explain clearly and concisely, without rudeness, why they feel like they feel. A couple people might want to take note and try and see how nice it is to read viewpoints when they are expressed without slamming what someone else believes. That is all class, your are dismissed. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: The title is the worse part of the book.  Did you read it?  The point of the book isn't actually his NDE.  Yup. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all. àAnd he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science. àFrom: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. ÃâàCan you believe I just finished this book? ÃâàEben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things. ÃâàHow would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life threatening situation such as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all. From: Yifu yifuxero@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander ÃâàAllegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Finally, someone who read the book. Given that this book is a recounting of his experience and a rudimentary attempt to reconcile his beliefs or lack thereof, as the case may be, what do you think are the key fatal errors in his assumptions? What did you get out of the book, if anything? From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: The title is the worse part of the book.  Did you read it?  The point of the book isn't actually his NDE.  Yup. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all.  And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science.  From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things.  How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject
[FairfieldLife] Re: Balloon of Ignorance Punctured by Needle of Scientific Curiosity
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: If you want to have a go at convincing us go ahead. Start wherever you like on the diagram. There are many things I don't believe in. Maybe I don't believe in more than you (take Scientism for a start). Scientism? Ah yes, that weird sickness creationists like to accuse the rational of suffering from. Ah, the rational. http://youtu.be/cAgAvnvXF9U Is this your thought process? :: Creationists make accusations of scientism. :: Creationists talk bollocks :: This is an accusation of scientism :: So this is bollocks Hardly an advertisement for the rational higher ground? Susan Haack: Six Signs Of Scientism: 1. Using the words science, scientific, scientifically, scientist, etc., honorifically, as generic terms of epistemic praise. 2. Adopting the manners, the trappings, the technical terminology, etc., of the sciences, irrespective of their real usefulness. 3. A preoccupation with demarcation, i.e., with drawing a sharp line between genuine science, the real thing, and pseudo-scientific imposters. 4. A corresponding preoccupation with identifying the scientific method, presumed to explain how the sciences have been so successful. 5. Looking to the sciences for answers to questions beyond their scope. 6. Denying or denigrating the legitimacy or the worth of other kinds of inquiry besides the scientific, or the value of human activities other than inquiry, such as poetry or art. From: http://goo.gl/9K7hS (pdf) Professor Haack ain't no stinkin' creationist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Haack
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Why don't you tell me what you got out of it. I think the book has impressed you more than it did me. I already mentioned his biggest problem I remember in his reasoning in what I wrote. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Finally, someone who read the book.  Given that this book is a recounting of his experience and a rudimentary attempt to reconcile his beliefs or lack thereof, as the case may be, what do you think are the key fatal errors in his assumptions?  What did you get out of the book, if anything? From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: The title is the worse part of the book. àDid you read it? àThe point of the book isn't actually his NDE. àYup. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander àHi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all. ÃâàAnd he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science. ÃâàFrom: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander Ãâà--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàCan you believe I just finished this book? ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàEben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, amongst other things. ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàHow would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: I will look up the word laywoman - ha. Â That's funny. Â Yep, like Turq I too wondered when I read across that particular word and weighed it. Emily was seeming rather hard on her own sex when it could have just as easily been about 'people'. Seemed like it was too prickly and needlessly divisive in a usage, sort of like a construction of a 'Men Only' meeting in the Fairfield community the other evening. -Buck From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book? Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. Â I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Alright, I will do that. I read it without having been subject to the reviews or media or marketing blitz that, having looked at those a bit, took a lot away from what is a very interesting little book on many levels. I did immerse myself on the ride to attempt to feel the experience he was trying to recount and his need to want to reconcile it with his science background. But, I have to go now and attend to some of life's little details. Have a good day. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:22 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander Why don't you tell me what you got out of it. I think the book has impressed you more than it did me. I already mentioned his biggest problem I remember in his reasoning in what I wrote. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Finally, someone who read the book.  Given that this book is a recounting of his experience and a rudimentary attempt to reconcile his beliefs or lack thereof, as the case may be, what do you think are the key fatal errors in his assumptions?  What did you get out of the book, if anything? From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: The title is the worse part of the book.  Did you read it?  The point of the book isn't actually his NDE.  Yup. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all.  And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science.  From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: This is a beautiful picture. ÃÆ'‚ Can you believe I just finished this book? ÃÆ'‚ Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this book - he addresses this
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Good rap, Curtis. For me, as I said earlier, any exhortation to read the book and then we can talk is meaningless *if I have zero interest in the subject matter of the book*. Reading it just isn't going to happen. In this particular instance, I have zero interest in people's subjective experience of NDEs. On a slightly higher level, however, I see this discussion (and some of the antipathy it has gener- ated) as an extension of my favorite quote from the FFL Home Page: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out. For some of us (you, me, Salyavin, Paligap, etc.), I think it is safe to class us as Wish to find out-ers. We are not committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs re (in this instance) life after death. Therefore when we encounter claims either pro or con about its existence, our PROCESS is simply to wish to find out. We don't approach any data we gather along the way as either confirming or denying something we believe in, cuz we (or in this case maybe just me) don't HAVE any fixed beliefs in this regard. For believers, those who DO have an investment in a belief (in this instance in life after death), when they encounter data that seems to contradict their beliefs, they perceive this as a challenge, or even as an insult. Their PROCESS in my opinion is often to search for data that *validates* or seems to prove their existing beliefs. So they glom onto subjective reports as if they were proof. When someone suggests that they're NOT proof, they sometimes get uppity because the contrary data is perceived as a challenge to their beliefs. Me, I roll with wish to find out. With regard to this particular instance, I tend to actually *have* beliefs in reincarnation and life after death, based on subjective experiences of my own. But I'm not attached to them. And I don't consider them anything *more* than beliefs. They are NOT truth or fact or anything approaching it. They are just theories that I've developed to explain my subjective experiences. So when I find data that seems to contradict these theories, it doesn't raise my hackles at all. Nothing is challenging a belief that I've invested in, and I can just as easily accept no life after death as I can accept life after death. Just my opinion... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating. I will always respond to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with you.it was written by a neuroscientist after all. Â And he addresses exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science. Â From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
Wa! Steve, Laughing One Jelly Bean called me a literary monster! Will you go pummel him for me? BTW, hope you had a wonderful Passover (-: From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] Hey, at least he's gotten into doing some research with regard to his postings. That's a new twist. And aren't we sorely tried to find something new in anything he posts? Like he's found a new pastime. As Edg would say, Good on ya Ravi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around.    From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of an imaginary person writing about imaginary places and events, though Ann and Curtis seem reasonably real. But of course I can't be sure. Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq
turq on Lenz: When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. me to turq: what is significance of 5 star establishments in this context? Why put word courses in quotes? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq and Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: turq, is this the REAL truth about your attitude towards TMO? That they employ bad cooks and don't offer the local food? I was speaking about one course in particular, on which the cooks could have spoiled the best food in the environment. On other courses they mainly rendered in bland and tasteless. Things may have gotten better over the years, but if not you may just not have a very developed palate. Are you really just a foodie after all? I'm beginning to suspect that this is this case, having heard you wax fondly about French meals, etc. And now this about the food on your TTC. Anyway, I hear you and understand. And admit that now I'm curious about the food associated with Mr. Lenz and his courses. When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. No movement cooks whatsoever. Also, most of us were omnivores, so accommodations were made for the real vegetarians, but few of them had to be made.
[FairfieldLife] Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy
That's double jeopardy in American law. IMO, she shouldn't go back to Italy for the retrial. She should fight any extradition order using the American laws, if that's possible. http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-orders-amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-091519064.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Ha ha ha ha. Barry, this first paragraph is hysterical.it's all about you, my friend, all about you and don't you forget it. Of course it's meaningless to you, it's not about you - thanks for weighing in again on that. And, then, what is even funnier is your second paragraph - re: the wish to find out. But, sweetie, you have zero interest. I didn't read the book with any expectations or pre-conceived ideas - simply with the desire to experience what the author was saying. Probably why it had such an impact on me. It wasn't about fitting his experience into my belief system, or not, as the case may be. Still, the book contains much more than just his recounting of the hallucinogenic aspects (or not) of his NDE and the conclusion that there is life after death, for me anyhow. I'm not that concerned with life after death - I'm more concerned with life. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander Good rap, Curtis. For me, as I said earlier, any exhortation to read the book and then we can talk is meaningless *if I have zero interest in the subject matter of the book*. Reading it just isn't going to happen. In this particular instance, I have zero interest in people's subjective experience of NDEs. On a slightly higher level, however, I see this discussion (and some of the antipathy it has gener- ated) as an extension of my favorite quote from the FFL Home Page: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out. For some of us (you, me, Salyavin, Paligap, etc.), I think it is safe to class us as Wish to find out-ers. We are not committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs re (in this instance) life after death. Therefore when we encounter claims either pro or con about its existence, our PROCESS is simply to wish to find out. We don't approach any data we gather along the way as either confirming or denying something we believe in, cuz we (or in this case maybe just me) don't HAVE any fixed beliefs in this regard. For believers, those who DO have an investment in a belief (in this instance in life after death), when they encounter data that seems to contradict their beliefs, they perceive this as a challenge, or even as an insult. Their PROCESS in my opinion is often to search for data that *validates* or seems to prove their existing beliefs. So they glom onto subjective reports as if they were proof. When someone suggests that they're NOT proof, they sometimes get uppity because the contrary data is perceived as a challenge to their beliefs. Me, I roll with wish to find out. With regard to this particular instance, I tend to actually *have* beliefs in reincarnation and life after death, based on subjective experiences of my own. But I'm not attached to them. And I don't consider them anything *more* than beliefs. They are NOT truth or fact or anything approaching it. They are just theories that I've developed to explain my subjective experiences. So when I find data that seems to contradict these theories, it doesn't raise my hackles at all. Nothing is challenging a belief that I've invested in, and I can just as easily accept no life after death as I can accept life after death. Just my opinion... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
I think Emily is coming from the place you describe. I am not sure I can claim to with regard to beliefs about life after death. I have it on the low probability shelf and it is going to take something profound beyond subjective experience to raise it. I just don't see anyone approaching it from the perspective of the knowledge issues by first solving the problem of how we could go about knowing such a thing with confidence. By moving inductively from experience they lose me at the gate since they haven't addressed what for me is the biggest piece. So when I pick up a book like this I am aware of my predisposition to not have much hope in it providing what I would need. I am more interested in analyzing how they specifically miss the mark of what I understand it would take to claim such a thing. This approach still would allow them to surprise me, but they need extraordinary evidence for an extraordinary claim. The way Emily seems to be approaching it sounds more like what you are describing, taking the ride without assumptions. And this book is perfect for this approach because it includes his own process of coming to grips with this. I think Emily is more into the process than the conclusions. We will see if she decides to write about her perspective on the book. I am not anti-assumptions, mine were hard earned. And as long as I am aware of them, I hope it doesn't interfere too much with seeing something new. And it might. But is also steers my time and attention to things I find more probable, and that is a value for me. The topic was a breath of fresh air for me here so thanks for extending the rap. I enjoyed reading everyone's impressions with or without reading the book. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Good rap, Curtis. For me, as I said earlier, any exhortation to read the book and then we can talk is meaningless *if I have zero interest in the subject matter of the book*. Reading it just isn't going to happen. In this particular instance, I have zero interest in people's subjective experience of NDEs. On a slightly higher level, however, I see this discussion (and some of the antipathy it has gener- ated) as an extension of my favorite quote from the FFL Home Page: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out. For some of us (you, me, Salyavin, Paligap, etc.), I think it is safe to class us as Wish to find out-ers. We are not committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs re (in this instance) life after death. Therefore when we encounter claims either pro or con about its existence, our PROCESS is simply to wish to find out. We don't approach any data we gather along the way as either confirming or denying something we believe in, cuz we (or in this case maybe just me) don't HAVE any fixed beliefs in this regard. For believers, those who DO have an investment in a belief (in this instance in life after death), when they encounter data that seems to contradict their beliefs, they perceive this as a challenge, or even as an insult. Their PROCESS in my opinion is often to search for data that *validates* or seems to prove their existing beliefs. So they glom onto subjective reports as if they were proof. When someone suggests that they're NOT proof, they sometimes get uppity because the contrary data is perceived as a challenge to their beliefs. Me, I roll with wish to find out. With regard to this particular instance, I tend to actually *have* beliefs in reincarnation and life after death, based on subjective experiences of my own. But I'm not attached to them. And I don't consider them anything *more* than beliefs. They are NOT truth or fact or anything approaching it. They are just theories that I've developed to explain my subjective experiences. So when I find data that seems to contradict these theories, it doesn't raise my hackles at all. Nothing is challenging a belief that I've invested in, and I can just as easily accept no life after death as I can accept life after death. Just my opinion... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
On 03/26/2013 02:04 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Or perhaps the interest in NDE is because this is a forum of old farts fearing that the D may be N. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Oh, I will, I willbut I want to write it from a thoughtful place and not a reactionary place or an impulsive place - did that last night. Tee Hee. I do have to go though - my oldest daughter is home for the week and wants some attention from Mom. Smile. First borns are so first-born like - I should know - I am one. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: I think Emily is coming from the place you describe. I am not sure I can claim to with regard to beliefs about life after death. I have it on the low probability shelf and it is going to take something profound beyond subjective experience to raise it. I just don't see anyone approaching it from the perspective of the knowledge issues by first solving the problem of how we could go about knowing such a thing with confidence. By moving inductively from experience they lose me at the gate since they haven't addressed what for me is the biggest piece. So when I pick up a book like this I am aware of my predisposition to not have much hope in it providing what I would need. I am more interested in analyzing how they specifically miss the mark of what I understand it would take to claim such a thing. This approach still would allow them to surprise me, but they need extraordinary evidence for an extraordinary claim. The way Emily seems to be approaching it sounds more like what you are describing, taking the ride without assumptions. And this book is perfect for this approach because it includes his own process of coming to grips with this. I think Emily is more into the process than the conclusions. We will see if she decides to write about her perspective on the book. I am not anti-assumptions, mine were hard earned. And as long as I am aware of them, I hope it doesn't interfere too much with seeing something new. And it might. But is also steers my time and attention to things I find more probable, and that is a value for me. The topic was a breath of fresh air for me here so thanks for extending the rap. I enjoyed reading everyone's impressions with or without reading the book. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Good rap, Curtis. For me, as I said earlier, any exhortation to read the book and then we can talk is meaningless *if I have zero interest in the subject matter of the book*. Reading it just isn't going to happen. In this particular instance, I have zero interest in people's subjective experience of NDEs. On a slightly higher level, however, I see this discussion (and some of the antipathy it has gener- ated) as an extension of my favorite quote from the FFL Home Page: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out. For some of us (you, me, Salyavin, Paligap, etc.), I think it is safe to class us as Wish to find out-ers. We are not committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs re (in this instance) life after death. Therefore when we encounter claims either pro or con about its existence, our PROCESS is simply to wish to find out. We don't approach any data we gather along the way as either confirming or denying something we believe in, cuz we (or in this case maybe just me) don't HAVE any fixed beliefs in this regard. For believers, those who DO have an investment in a belief (in this instance in life after death), when they encounter data that seems to contradict their beliefs, they perceive this as a challenge, or even as an insult. Their PROCESS in my opinion is often to search for data that *validates* or seems to prove their existing beliefs. So they glom onto subjective reports as if they were proof. When someone suggests that they're NOT proof, they sometimes get uppity because the contrary data is perceived as a challenge to their beliefs. Me, I roll with wish to find out. With regard to this particular instance, I tend to actually *have* beliefs in reincarnation and life after death, based on subjective experiences of my own. But I'm not attached to them. And I don't consider them anything *more* than beliefs. They are NOT truth or fact or anything approaching it. They are just theories that I've developed to explain my subjective experiences. So when I find data that seems to contradict these theories, it doesn't raise my hackles at all. Nothing is challenging a belief that I've invested in, and I can just as easily accept no life after death as I can accept life after death. Just my opinion... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy
She wont be extradited for the trial, it is only possible if she gets convicted. I think Rarfaele Sollecito, whose excellent book on the trial I have read, is in more danger being in Italy already. I think the worst case for Amanda would be serving some time here in the US by agreement with Italy. I hope it doesn't come to that. Her book comes out next month. To gain a great perspective on the crazy prosecutor who cooked up this bullshit case against them, I can recommend the book The Monster Of Florence by a journalist researching a famous serial killer case and getting embroiled in this madman's legal web. It makes me so sad because I love Italy and this leaves such a sour taste in my mouth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: That's double jeopardy in American law. IMO, she shouldn't go back to Italy for the retrial. She should fight any extradition order using the American laws, if that's possible. http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-orders-amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-091519064.html
[FairfieldLife] G-sus?
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/autot/art-1288551460454.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 03/26/2013 02:04 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Or perhaps the interest in NDE is because this is a forum of old farts fearing that the D may be N. :-D Aha! What if the eastern idea that what we focus on becomes our reality is also true? Are we denizens of FFL destined to spend eternity together in this wonderland of towering clouds and angels. Here's hoping! But I worry that our eternal arguing might lower the tone of the place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Yes! I really enjoy watching 'somehow' unfold too! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Somehow.it's an amazing thing, the soul:) From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  I have been in the presence of someone who regularly suffered intense migraines, and someone else just after they had an NDE. The obvious difference in both was the sense of peace and acceptance experienced during the NDE, though superficial aspects of the experiences may sound similar. The assumption by Shermer is that the physical existence he experiences is the constant, with any existence beyond that, unknowable. This is the view of life, with death as its foundation. The alternative, that of life as its own foundation, is living the soul within to be the reality, and watching as it takes on a temporary vehicle, currently this body, aligns to it, and sets up a dynamic of Self awareness. Then after a hundred years or so, this body wears out, and the soul shimmers out of it, and continues its journey of self knowledge, somehow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
[FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: turq on Lenz: When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. me to turq: what is significance of 5 star establishments in this context? Why put word courses in quotes? 1. We never *had* courses in the sense in which you think of them from TM and the TMO. We never went to some location to learn some specific teaching, avail- able only there. When we went on the road, it was always a combination of fun, teaching, and journeying to places of power. And fun very much *was* a part of every such journey, and viewed as just as important as any teachings. For example, we used to travel to power places in the Southwest (Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, etc.), to Paris, Amsterdam, and London (for teaching and fun), and to other places like Hawaii or Bali. 2. There are rankings of both hotels and restaurants in the world, based on their quality. For example, there are about 10 five-star restaurants in Paris, but there are only 16 five-star restaurants in the entire United States, as rated by the same Michelin Guide. Rama felt very strongly that to be successful in one's profession (something he valued and taught), one had to become comfortable in such environments, so we tended to have special events in such places. There are similar ratings for hotels; when we went to both Paris and Hawaii, we stayed in five-star hotels there. In other words, do not make the mistake of thinking that spiritual paths were as spartan as they were in the TMO. And in answer to your unasked but likely question, no, not every student could afford these outings, but I could. My salary level quadrupled within a few years of beginning to study with the guy (largely due to his influence, prodding, and training he provided), and stayed high all the way through. Richard will probably chime in with horse- shit he's read on websites about students being dirt poor and giving all their money to the guy, but much of that is simply not true. When you're making over $1000 a day as a consultant on Wall Street, as I was towards the end of my time with the Rama guy, you can afford to eat or stay at five-star joints. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq and Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq, is this the REAL truth about your attitude towards TMO?ÃÂ That they employ bad cooks and don't offer the local food?ÃÂ I was speaking about one course in particular, on which the cooks could have spoiled the best food in the environment. On other courses they mainly rendered in bland and tasteless. Things may have gotten better over the years, but if not you may just not have a very developed palate. Are you really just a foodie after all?ÃÂ I'm beginning to suspect that this is this case, having heard you wax fondly about French meals, etc.ÃÂ And now this about the food on your TTC.ÃÂ Anyway, I hear you and understand.ÃÂ And admit that now I'm curious about the food associated with Mr. Lenz and his courses. When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. No movement cooks whatsoever. Also, most of us were omnivores, so accommodations were made for the real vegetarians, but few of them had to be made.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Balloon of Ignorance Punctured by Needle of Scientific Curiosity
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: If you want to have a go at convincing us go ahead. Start wherever you like on the diagram. There are many things I don't believe in. Maybe I don't believe in more than you (take Scientism for a start). Scientism? Ah yes, that weird sickness creationists like to accuse the rational of suffering from. Ah, the rational. http://youtu.be/cAgAvnvXF9U Is this your thought process? :: Creationists make accusations of scientism. :: Creationists talk bollocks :: This is an accusation of scientism :: So this is bollocks Hardly an advertisement for the rational higher ground? Susan Haack: Six Signs Of Scientism: 1. Using the words science, scientific, scientifically, scientist, etc., honorifically, as generic terms of epistemic praise. 2. Adopting the manners, the trappings, the technical terminology, etc., of the sciences, irrespective of their real usefulness. 3. A preoccupation with demarcation, i.e., with drawing a sharp line between genuine science, the real thing, and pseudo-scientific imposters. 4. A corresponding preoccupation with identifying the scientific method, presumed to explain how the sciences have been so successful. 5. Looking to the sciences for answers to questions beyond their scope. 6. Denying or denigrating the legitimacy or the worth of other kinds of inquiry besides the scientific, or the value of human activities other than inquiry, such as poetry or art. Is this what you are accusing me of? Ho ho, does she think poetry can prove reincarnation?
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Nazi search for the Holy Grail
On 03/25/2013 01:53 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I guess even sociopaths can believe in Woo Woo. I've been to Montserraat many times, and although it's neat and all, there ain't no grail there. Then again, there was probably no grail anywhere, because the whole myth of the Last Supper probably never happened, even if the myth of Jesus did. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298716/The-REAL-Last-Crusade-Nazi-search-Holy-Grail-inspired-Indiana-Jones.html The first Indiana Jones film reminded me of an expedition my brother mounted in the early 1970s to recover the supposed gold in Jimmy Angel's crashed plane on the plateau above Angel Falls in Venezuela. My brother knew the pilot of that plane who with Angel escaped through the jungle with natives in pursuit. The expedition was mounted with National Geographic providing some VTOL planes so they could land and take off from the plateau but it was so muddy they thought the planes might get stuck in the mud and unable to take off again. One of the books I still have is The Occult and the Third Reich which is a fascinating book by a couple of French historians about the Reich's obsession with the occult. There was a supposed Tibetan monk that advised Hitler and before the war ended was flown back to Tibet. Seems about every 81 years people on the earth go crazy.
[FairfieldLife] YAHWEH/ENLIL, ET FROM NIBIRU, HAD ISRAELI QUEEN JEZEBEL KILLED FOR TOLERANCE
YAHWEH/ENLIL, ET FROM NIBIRU, HAD ISRAELI QUEEN JEZEBEL KILLED FOR TOLERANCE Web Radio, article, illustrations at link below text Jezebel is a culture hero in the struggle against the suppression of diversity and against female enslavement. For thirty years, almost 3000 years ago, Jezebel moved her nation toward justice and appreciation of women, minorities and diverse spiritual practices. Her life reminds us that we must free ourselves from the ET Nibirans' woman-suppressing attitudes, miscegenation Nibiru's King Anu, Earth Goldmining Expedition Chief Yahweh, Yahweh's rival Allah (Marduk) as well as Popes and fundamentalists of all stripes have inflicted upon us. Jezebel reminds us to accept our essential oneness as humanity. I am greatful to Leslie Hazelton for this magnificent Jezebel, the book on which this broadcast relies, we see Jezebel was an enlightened queen, urging humanity toward a more civilized civilization. http://aquarianradio.com/2013/03/yahwehenlil-et-from-nibiru-had-israeli-queen-jezebel-killed-for-tolerance/
[FairfieldLife] Re: YAHWEH/ENLIL, ET FROM NIBIRU, HAD ISRAELI QUEEN JEZEBEL KILLED FOR TOLERANCE
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Goddess Ninmah sashalessinphd@... wrote: YAHWEH/ENLIL, ET FROM NIBIRU, HAD ISRAELI QUEEN JEZEBEL KILLED FOR TOLERANCE Web Radio, article, illustrations at link below text Jezebel is a culture hero in the struggle against the suppression of diversity and against female enslavement. For thirty years, almost 3000 years ago, Jezebel moved her nation toward justice and appreciation of women, minorities and diverse spiritual practices. Her life reminds us that we must free ourselves from the ET Nibirans' woman-suppressing attitudes, miscegenation Nibiru's King Anu, Earth Goldmining Expedition Chief Yahweh, Yahweh's rival Allah (Marduk) as well as Popes and fundamentalists of all stripes have inflicted upon us. Jezebel reminds us to accept our essential oneness as humanity. I am greatful to Leslie Hazelton for this magnificent Jezebel, the book on which this broadcast relies, we see Jezebel was an enlightened queen, urging humanity toward a more civilized civilization. http://aquarianradio.com/2013/03/yahwehenlil-et-from-nibiru-had-israeli-queen-jezebel-killed-for-tolerance/ So Allah is Marduk? I often wondered what happens to gods when they fall out of favour, clearly they just hang around for 1000 years and change their names. Pretty clever, but you'd expect that from gods wouldn't you?
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
I had forgotten about my earlier exposition on His Holiness, into The Holy Trinity. The triumverate, in glorious worship of the dead little man persona. Two little candles, B and C, with puddles at their feet, in the face of the noonday sun. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: A blast from the past - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/300308 (for the clueless doctordumbass = futur.musik) On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:49 PM, doctordumbass@... no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ** The monkey, the mannequin, and the squeeze toy. Funny to see Boy Scientist Curtis in his lab coat, railing at the podium one minute, and then when the subject changes to interpersonal dynamics, he is suddenly dumb as a post. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: His Holiness must be just chilling out yeah? In a jovial, playful mood? Sweet to see his antics. Because applying your disinterested, impartial POV persona I'm able to gather a lot of information even from that compacted text. I won't be waiting for yours and Guru Xeno's disinterested, impartial analysis though because we know your personas and your target, captive audience. On Mar 25, 2013, at 3:35 PM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hilarious, what a project. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I took Robin's last post to Curtis and removed all of Curtis' and Ann's comments and pasted all of Robin's posts into the text compactor http://www.textcompactor.com/ and it choked, the text was too long. So I split it into two sections, reduced the length to 10% and then reduced the remainder by about 50%. This is the result: Robin: 'No, you will scrupulously avoid this, because it might get you trapped inside where truth is--truth which does not wish to be exploited for ends which falsify why it exists.' 'You are saying here, Curtis, that Barry formed a dislike for A and Robin; So you only see the version of Barry that applies to you, a person he does not respect--meaning: A fails to realize that, outside of A, Barry does demonstrate vulnerability--but A can't see this because she is subjectively reacting to Barry's dislike of her. You did not in your representation of what I said about Barry (you took over what that analysis was and made it over into your own image of what you wanted it to be: there was hardly anything left of it after that) indicate you were at all interested in anything but defending Barry and getting rid of my analysis. Funny thing--it starts off as a cliché, and just dies away in the saying of it.' 'Ann has done her best to be fair and just to Barry here, Curtis.' 'If you really did possess such a perspective, why have you allowed AWB to fall into such ignorance about Barry, because her perspective has not been informed by your own (re: Barry Wright)? So I conclude: Yes, what AWB declares about Barry's predictability is unassailable--and only you have sealed this by how you have responded to this assertion, Curtis.' 'I have analyzed the Limited character of Barry Wright in my analysis, Curtis. And that's not going to happen, because Barry would not give you that opportunity, and neither will your experience or your modus operandi.' 'The point Ann is making here, Curtis, is that you and Barry have this tacit pact (I assume it has not been ritualized through ceremony or handshakes): You have my back; You have my back; I have your back--at all times.'
[FairfieldLife] Re: G-sus?
Clever title. Man, he looks unhappy like he just figured out Dad's career path for him. But dad, if we wait 2000 years I can get a nice lethal injection and Christians can wear hypodermic needles around their necks. Do we have to do it in the days of crucifixion? Can't we even make it till they invent the guillotine? Sorry son we have already printed up all the promo materials and it would be a bitch to change them now. Perhaps if you attended some of the meetings instead of spending your time riding on dinosaurs like Fred Flintstones, your input could have been considered. This is bullshit dad, you are such a douche. WHAT was that you said? I said Kate Winlset, dad, has such a tush. Well we agree on that at least, I consider it one of my finest creations. Dumbass What? I said real class dad. Yeah all my British chicks sound classy, it's just the accent. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@... wrote: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/autot/art-1288551460454.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. � I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck You do recall that Maharishi said in relation to someone asking him where do you go when you die in CC? He said you do not go anywhere. And that you do not get to come back, precisely because you have not gone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Whoops - this was meant for Salyavin808. Â This book was interesting to me, not with respect to proving or disproving the phenomena of NDE's, but rather, the way it forced him to completely re-evaluate his assumptions as a scientist and the efforts he went to to reconcile his beliefs about the world and life with his experience. Â It's a great little story for many reasons, not just the obvious. Â Re-evaluating assumptions is always a good excerise, the NDE seems to generate a lot of positive energy in people. I guess they interpret it in much the same way I think the TM experience is interpreted - that it is a world beyond this one - and not just a change in the way the brain organises it's many contributory parts in making the picture of the world that we frequently mistake for the world itself. TM did it for me, as did LSD. I'm sure that if was a previous non-experiencer in any of the mind expanding shit I've been into and had an NDE during an accident or any health crisis, I would be much more likely to put extra weight on the experience being a foretelling of what is to come rather than the neural reshuffling I rather suspect it is. As I say, there isn't much in what I've read about the NDE that I haven't experienced before but I would still like to try an NDE, if only they could be induced without the near-death part! Bit I bet that would take a lot of the impact away from it. And what of the small percentage of people who don't have a happy trip to heaven. It seems a few have a vision of endless painful torment and instead of the sort of life affirming positive changes that most go through, they dread dying, being convinced they are going to hell! Maybe it's all true, that'd be a turn up! Might be worth a deathbed conversion
[FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq
We never *had* courses in the sense in which you think of them from TM and the TMO. Stating the obvious, and it shows every time you post, Barry. Share, as to B's willingness to describe all the Big Dog activities he participated in, at the drop of a hat, this is meant to establish his credibility and self confidence in the world. If he truly had the self confidence he attempts to reflect, he would not have to pull out the picture postcards every time. Living in exotic places, in sumptuous surroundings, five star this and that, may be distracting for awhile, and for the less strong minded (like B here), they may even attempt to glorify themselves through such circumstances, but as Ann said earlier, and speaking from experience myself, Knowledge is structured in consciousness. Barry continues to 'eat out', so to speak, on this picture of himself as a global Bon Vivant, but I was not the only one struck by how much of his baggage he took with him, when he moved to Paris recently. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq on Lenz: When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. me to turq: what is significance of 5 star establishments in this context? Why put word courses in quotes? 1. We never *had* courses in the sense in which you think of them from TM and the TMO. We never went to some location to learn some specific teaching, avail- able only there. When we went on the road, it was always a combination of fun, teaching, and journeying to places of power. And fun very much *was* a part of every such journey, and viewed as just as important as any teachings. For example, we used to travel to power places in the Southwest (Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, etc.), to Paris, Amsterdam, and London (for teaching and fun), and to other places like Hawaii or Bali. 2. There are rankings of both hotels and restaurants in the world, based on their quality. For example, there are about 10 five-star restaurants in Paris, but there are only 16 five-star restaurants in the entire United States, as rated by the same Michelin Guide. Rama felt very strongly that to be successful in one's profession (something he valued and taught), one had to become comfortable in such environments, so we tended to have special events in such places. There are similar ratings for hotels; when we went to both Paris and Hawaii, we stayed in five-star hotels there. In other words, do not make the mistake of thinking that spiritual paths were as spartan as they were in the TMO. And in answer to your unasked but likely question, no, not every student could afford these outings, but I could. My salary level quadrupled within a few years of beginning to study with the guy (largely due to his influence, prodding, and training he provided), and stayed high all the way through. Richard will probably chime in with horse- shit he's read on websites about students being dirt poor and giving all their money to the guy, but much of that is simply not true. When you're making over $1000 a day as a consultant on Wall Street, as I was towards the end of my time with the Rama guy, you can afford to eat or stay at five-star joints. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq and Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq, is this the REAL truth about your attitude towards TMO?ÃÂ That they employ bad cooks and don't offer the local food?ÃÂ I was speaking about one course in particular, on which the cooks could have spoiled the best food in the environment. On other courses they mainly rendered in bland and tasteless. Things may have gotten better over the years, but if not you may just not have a very developed palate. Are you really just a foodie after all?ÃÂ I'm beginning to suspect that this is this case, having heard you wax fondly about French meals, etc.ÃÂ And now this about the food on your TTC.ÃÂ Anyway, I hear you and understand.ÃÂ And admit that now I'm curious about the food associated with Mr. Lenz and his courses. When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. No movement cooks whatsoever. Also, most of us were omnivores, so accommodations were made for the real vegetarians, but few of them had to be made.
[FairfieldLife] beautiful Rama bhajan
https://soundcloud.com/hareraama/srirama-jayarama-raamakatha
[FairfieldLife] Re: Balloon of Ignorance Punctured by Needle of Scientific Curiosity
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: If you want to have a go at convincing us go ahead. Start wherever you like on the diagram. There are many things I don't believe in. Maybe I don't believe in more than you (take Scientism for a start). Scientism? Ah yes, that weird sickness creationists like to accuse the rational of suffering from. Ah, the rational. http://youtu.be/cAgAvnvXF9U Is this your thought process? :: Creationists make accusations of scientism. :: Creationists talk bollocks :: This is an accusation of scientism :: So this is bollocks Hardly an advertisement for the rational higher ground? Susan Haack: Six Signs Of Scientism: 1. Using the words science, scientific, scientifically, scientist, etc., honorifically, as generic terms of epistemic praise. 2. Adopting the manners, the trappings, the technical terminology, etc., of the sciences, irrespective of their real usefulness. 3. A preoccupation with demarcation, i.e., with drawing a sharp line between genuine science, the real thing, and pseudo-scientific imposters. 4. A corresponding preoccupation with identifying the scientific method, presumed to explain how the sciences have been so successful. 5. Looking to the sciences for answers to questions beyond their scope. 6. Denying or denigrating the legitimacy or the worth of other kinds of inquiry besides the scientific, or the value of human activities other than inquiry, such as poetry or art. Is this what you are accusing me of? Ho ho, does she think poetry can prove reincarnation? Yes and no and neither do I. And neither did Wordsworth. Can you imagine that - writing verse about something that *can't be proved*? What a waste of time! Why bother? Do you think that only what is provable is a worthy candidate for what we might suppose to be the case? (I suspect that very little, if anything, is provable). If you do think that, or something like it, is that belief in itself provable? Or should that faith of yours be consigned to the Venn diagram of unproveable bollocks (religious bollocks presumably)?
[FairfieldLife] Innocent!
new from the accuser - rape went on for 15 plus years. also she states will commit suicide soon if he is not indicted. one wag commented that unless she was locked into a basement which she does not claim, then this is hardly likely.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. Â One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard Only *two* ways to be fooled? You are overly optimistic. Delusion is a primary human characteristic. I have not read this book, probably have not the time. I read another one though - 'the Spiritual Doorway in the Brain' by Kevin Nelson, a neurologist who has been studying this phenomenon for some 30 years. He came to a different conclusion: Some comments on the Alexander book by others: http://www.salon.com/2012/11/26/dr_eben_alexanders_so_called_after_life/ http://www.realitysandwich.com/when_proof_not_enough_eben_alexander http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1385027/Revealed-The-truth-near-death-experiences.html I tend to think life after death is an idiotic concept if one is attempting to be 'spiritual'. All experiences require consciousness. That is what the 'spirit' in 'spiritual' is. It is associated with every possible experience, and it does not matter if you can come up with a definition for it or not, we all have it. If it was not there, zero experience. No matter what experience, consciousness is there, pure existential value. Spiritually this what we are. This is our location. It does not matter what the experience is or where it seems to be, the consciousness is there as its container so to speak. Nothing outside of it can be an experience or knowable. Therefore it is meaningless to discuss other places one can be. One's life is just this sparkling whatever it is that makes experience possible. It is always where you are, because it is you. The other you, the 'me' is just a story inside this container that makes life knowable. Its a selective, quirky narrative about the relationships within the larger container of experience, and that narrative typically borders on insanity. The people who have NDEs are alive. People who are dead tell us nothing. That is the logical gap that makes evaluation of this situation impossible to resolve. Note that about 10% of NDE experiences recorded are hellish. Perhaps the attitude one has toward this issue is related to the answer to this question: 'Are you afraid to die?' My experience is that people who believe in an afterlife often seem very fearful of death. They believe they are going to a much better place, but seem to have a strong resistance to be in that better place.
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Wa! Steve, Laughing One Jelly Bean called me a literary monster! Will you go pummel him for me? BTW, hope you had a wonderful Passover (-: Let's not forget that I also called myself one...I'm the or two...and also Jim. Does that mean I get three pummelings? Oh dear! From: seventhray27 steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Hey, at least he's gotten into doing some research with regard to his postings. That's a new twist. And aren't we sorely tried to find something new in anything he posts? Like he's found a new pastime. As Edg would say, Good on ya Ravi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes.àObviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about!àHis brain I mean.àNeuroscience and all that bullocks.àAnyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity.àDear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?!àAnd all the effing this and effing that.àOne is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes!àIt's a new year.àEven in Western astrology.àEven in the Chinese system.àIt's a new season.àIt's almost a new month.àGet with the new program, Newphew!àSorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around.ààààFrom: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] àEveryone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
But what if you wish for something really really hard, then I think it could come true, right? Like one time I wished on a star for ten days straight for something I really, really wanted and on the eleventh day do you know what happened? A 12 inch pianist knocked on my door. I figure God's wish spell check app sucks as badly as ours does, but I still consider it a proof of concept even if it wasn't exactly what I was asking for. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. Â One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard Only *two* ways to be fooled? You are overly optimistic. Delusion is a primary human characteristic. I have not read this book, probably have not the time. I read another one though - 'the Spiritual Doorway in the Brain' by Kevin Nelson, a neurologist who has been studying this phenomenon for some 30 years. He came to a different conclusion: Some comments on the Alexander book by others: http://www.salon.com/2012/11/26/dr_eben_alexanders_so_called_after_life/ http://www.realitysandwich.com/when_proof_not_enough_eben_alexander http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1385027/Revealed-The-truth-near-death-experiences.html I tend to think life after death is an idiotic concept if one is attempting to be 'spiritual'. All experiences require consciousness. That is what the 'spirit' in 'spiritual' is. It is associated with every possible experience, and it does not matter if you can come up with a definition for it or not, we all have it. If it was not there, zero experience. No matter what experience, consciousness is there, pure existential value. Spiritually this what we are. This is our location. It does not matter what the experience is or where it seems to be, the consciousness is there as its container so to speak. Nothing outside of it can be an experience or knowable. Therefore it is meaningless to discuss other places one can be. One's life is just this sparkling whatever it is that makes experience possible. It is always where you are, because it is you. The other you, the 'me' is just a story inside this container that makes life knowable. Its a selective, quirky narrative about the relationships within the larger container of experience, and that narrative typically borders on insanity. The people who have NDEs are alive. People who are dead tell us nothing. That is the logical gap that makes evaluation of this situation impossible to resolve. Note that about 10% of NDE experiences recorded are hellish. Perhaps the attitude one has toward this issue is related to the answer to this question: 'Are you afraid to die?' My experience is that people who believe in an afterlife often seem very fearful of death. They believe they are going to a much better place, but seem to have a strong resistance to be in that better place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Men only,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: snip Even better, since I've recently learned how to hack iPhone utilities, one could provide him a built-in onscreen keyboard on the iPhone that lacked the letter I. My bet is that he wouldn't be able to complete a single post. :-) :-) :-) snip If you want to make a keyboard for Robin, leaving out the combinations 'space' 'm' 'e' 'space' and 'space' 'm' 'y' 'space' might also be helpful, otherwise he might go Tonto on us. Robin without the letter I? That's Rob'n. Then program the text-compactor into his editor, and let Bhairitu make it into a video-clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4HZPMuj6-o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 03/26/2013 02:04 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Or perhaps the interest in NDE is because this is a forum of old farts fearing that the D may be N. :-D True that. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Barry, I think I had a Near-Life-Experience yesterday, when I was offline, but since I didn't see anyone from FFL around there, I figured it was delusional, because you are supposed to see disembodied beings. (or embodied? never mind) AFAIK there is no proof yet that the IBO (in-the-body-experience) has any physical reality to it. You can't 'touch' reality, it's just electrons repelling each other, and have you even seen an electron yet? Right! It's all just in our heads, or rather in my head. People even don't know they have a self, they are paying big bucks just to find their 'deepest self' at the MUM find-yourself-process (I want to find my *highest* self), not to speak about knowing others or the world. It's like the fog above the Seine before the Eiffel Tower, which you forgot to photograph, is it really there? How could you go to work without your iphone? It is just hiding things, and then it gives you a romantic feeling, it's an image stored in the mind. But it's magic, right?
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: dear Xeno, following in your footsteps I had this RWC joke squashed: I am Curtis; Ravi is Barry. What can I do? That was the best he ever wrote! Funny and creative. Couldn't he have just stuck with this brevity? But then he explains that all this joking around is just an act of desperation to him, because the *truth* was lost. To me his rap is completely overwrought. Xeno's text-compactor serves as a good satire. my result: IC RB Wo? Squashing has as if rendered me whole! I no longer need you to be my Guru but along with Ravi, I will always love you and be grateful. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of an imaginary person writing about imaginary places and events, though Ann and Curtis seem reasonably real. But of course I can't be sure. Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bhairitu will enjoy this
Maybe they will pay you some interest too. When I switched from Earthlink to ATT Broadband they were supposed to give me a $50 rebate to help defray the cost of the modem/router. They messed up the account and I didn't get the rebate at least right away. A little over a year later the modem/router died and though out of warranty I talked them into replacing it (probably because the support person thought that it sucked that it died just a little out of warranty). In the process they must have reviewed the account and found they never paid me the rebate so sent a check with interest. When I went to U-Verse Internet and phone with ATT they sent a $100 gift card. I knew to use it up within the first month or Visa would charge a fee. So all purchases were done with it instead of cash. I'm contemplating replacing Comcast with their TV service and I would get a $200 gift card and to same with it. There's not a lot of choice when it comes to TV and I've even considered doing without (cutting the cable). Most shows I really want to watch can still be seen using Hulu Plus and most of the cable network shows with Vudu or Amazon. Comcast may start encrypting the limited basic channels anyway rendering my computer TV tuners extinct. On 03/26/2013 07:55 AM, Share Long wrote: Thank you to Doc, Alex and noozguru for all the great info. Let me tell you of my adventures yesterday with Verizon the Obsequious. For my first foray they used the Bold Strategy of having me be hung up on while waiting for Customer Service. But being the dauntless lass that FFL has made me, gratitude all around, I dialed in again, waffled through the automated menu and this time got an actual person! Christian. Christian who kept putting me on hold. And then thanking me for being patient when he returned. Dear Christian of course had no way of knowing that I loathe and detest when someone, even in 3D life, thanks me for being patient. What in God's name makes them think I'm being patient?! I'm pure pitta for God's sake! There's not a patient bone in my body. Instead I follow Mark Russell's advice that the secret of patience is to do something else in the meantime. Now that's a strategy dear to any pitta's heart. But back to Verizon. Then Christian passed me to another person, Michelle. Michelle with the Bad Customer Karma, where Bad refers both to the Customer, Me, and to her Karma. Anyway, she made it clear how lucky I was that we didn't have to wait 72 hours to access my account history. They quickly located my December 2012 balance which was $208.25! But, you gotta love how the buts keep coming, but I had to buy another month for $15 to even find out if they would credit my account! So I did. Then she announced the total fee, $16.38 which dismayed me because for 8 1/2 years, as I told the hapless Michelle, the monthly amount with taxes was $16.05. She floundered about, probably thinking at this point that I was a test customer. Rather than simply a testy one ha ha. We soldiered on, she put me on hold again, thanked me again for about the 6 billionth time for being patient and then informed me that the amount was not only too high for her to authorize but also too high for her supervisor to authorize! Talk about cults! Soo, I will have to wait, patient person that they think I am, probably another 72 hours to see if I get the $208.25 credited back to my account. They now know that I got other options. But if they don't do what's right, by gum, I'm outta there and may they spend my $224.63 in good health. Poor little Verizon, I had no idea they were so strapped for cash! From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bhairitu will enjoy this Better known as customer retention and also works with cable companies. ;-) You can get all kinds of unadvertised deals this way. Just say you're going to walk. On 03/25/2013 01:07 PM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Whoooa. Call up Verizon, and get a real person on the phone, and explain your situation. Very much worth it. They will both work with you to fix your problem, and often have packages to offer you that aren't advertised. You have been a customer for eight years and they know that. Remind them if necessary. I just went through getting my DSL + landline (att) and cell phone(t-mobile) coverage waaay down. With t-mobile I avoided a $200 contract termination fee, and was able to xfer to a much cheaper plan w/o contract, and free texting for 2 years. My father-in-law using Virgin Mobile just received two years of free service, because they f*cked up his account. What I do whenever I am negotiating for better price or service is find a competing offer, and let the incumbent know it, in addition
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
On 03/26/2013 09:56 AM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. � I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck You do recall that Maharishi said in relation to someone asking him where do you go when you die in CC? He said you do not go anywhere. And that you do not get to come back, precisely because you have not gone. That would be great because who the hell would want to come back to this polluted and over populated planet anyway? So sad what human weevils have done to the planet.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Balloon of Ignorance Punctured by Needle of Scientific Curiosity
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Is this what you are accusing me of? Ho ho, does she think poetry can prove reincarnation? Yes and no and neither do I. And neither did Wordsworth. Can you imagine that - writing verse about something that *can't be proved*? What a waste of time! Why bother? Erm, it was you who brought the subject up and even warned me to avert my eyes. Do you think that only what is provable is a worthy candidate for what we might suppose to be the case? (I suspect that very little, if anything, is provable) Well if you are going to hamstring yourself like that... Try assuming that some things do exist and are provable and then see what is worth considering. The way I look at unprovable things like reincarnation is by seeing what we'd have to throw away by accepting something that contradicts what we are rather sure about. For any sort of life after death it seems to me that an awful lot of useful and well tested explanations have to go in the bin, including some of my favourites. I'd be a bit annoyed to have to jettison Darwinism because people decided en mass to teach Dr Eber instead because it's more romantically satisfying. What do we gain in return? A bit of comfort? Of course, the world could be stranger than anyone can imagine and heaven and hell exist and even reincarnation at the same time, or maybe Ron Hubbard is right. Seems that a lot these ideas fit a similar meme and come from the same emotional place and thus fit into the same section of the venn diagram where they will stay. At least until everything we base our rather well sussed view of the world has turned out to be crap or at least shown how it could co-exist with this stuff. Which seems the less likely option to me, but here's hoping! It'd be quite a paradigm shift . If you do think that, or something like it, is that belief in itself provable? Or should that faith of yours be consigned to the Venn diagram of unproveable bollocks (religious bollocks presumably)? I have no faith. There is merely what is most likely given current knowledge. By all means add to it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy
John, do you think she is innocent? I read about the case on wiki. And I learned of something new today: forensic astrology. The article about Meredith Kercher's murder in the url below amazes me in how much detail it contains. The astrologer describes the murder's appearance at length as well as motive, timing and circumstances such as their going to the room to retrieve something like jewelry. http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2009/10/amanda-knox.html From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy That's double jeopardy in American law. IMO, she shouldn't go back to Italy for the retrial. She should fight any extradition order using the American laws, if that's possible. http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-orders-amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-091519064.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: John, do you think she is innocent? I read about the case on wiki. And I learned of something new today: forensic astrology. The article about Meredith Kercher's murder in the url below amazes me in how much detail it contains. The astrologer describes the murder's appearance at length as well as motive, timing and circumstances such as their going to the room to retrieve something like jewelry.   http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2009/10/amanda-knox.html Forensic astrology can be very specific as to where missing people are hidden and all sorts of morbid details. Hilarious to see this post because i looked up her chart this morning when i read the news. here is the one i read and it says she's innocent: http://solarisastrology.blogspot.com/2011/10/amanda-knox-tragedy-murder-sadness-and.html From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy  That's double jeopardy in American law. IMO, she shouldn't go back to Italy for the retrial. She should fight any extradition order using the American laws, if that's possible. http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-orders-amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-091519064.html
[FairfieldLife] New book, gives an interesting perspective on Maharishi
http://www.amazon.com/In-Himalayan-Nights-Anoop-Chandola/dp/0982998708 Dehradun City, Himalayas, India 1977: Two bright, beautiful, lesbian research assistants accompany their Indian professor to this city near the tense borders of China and Nepal to observe the âholy-warâ dance of the Mahabharata and its link to polygamy and local heroes (or villains?). The girls begin to question the holiness of the Bhagavad Gitaâs two polygamist avatars while watching the dance, even as they fall in love with India and their friendly hosts. While gathering data on womenâs rights violations, caste discrimination, and animal cruelty, they discover more about their own culture, their relationship and themselves. When their hosts uncover the womenâs secret love-life, they turn against them and the research team's existence is threatened. Will the Indian holy-war become a personal one between locals and outsiders, men against women, polygamists against lesbians, Indians against Americans? The answer lies in the Himalayan nights... The professor discusses Maharishi and the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath with fellow Indians at one point. Anoop Chondola is a an anthropologist and linguist specializing in Indian studies. He learned to meditate from the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath who was the direct successor of Gurudev. His family has close ties to the organization of scholars and religious leaders who chose Gurudev to be the Shankaracharya, so he has an interesting perspective on things. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy
Share, I'm basing my opinion on what the jurors concluded in the last trial in Italy. They pronounced her to be innocent. In US law, it would be double jeopardy to retry her for the same crime. But apparently the Italian law does not recognize double jeopardy as a legal defense. If the laws here in the USA could not protect her from extradition, she should move to another country that does not have an extradition agreement with Italy. She should move to Canada, if their laws can protect her. I have not looked at Amanda's chart to determine if she did it or not. IMO, astrology should not be used to replace the legal practices of any country. Needless to say, she should never ever go back to Italy again for astrological and legal reasons. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: John, do you think she is innocent? I read about the case on wiki. And I learned of something new today: forensic astrology. The article about Meredith Kercher's murder in the url below amazes me in how much detail it contains. The astrologer describes the murder's appearance at length as well as motive, timing and circumstances such as their going to the room to retrieve something like jewelry.   http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/2009/10/amanda-knox.html From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Amanda Knox to be Retried in Italy  That's double jeopardy in American law. IMO, she shouldn't go back to Italy for the retrial. She should fight any extradition order using the American laws, if that's possible. http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-orders-amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-091519064.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Men only,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip Even better, since I've recently learned how to hack iPhone utilities, one could provide him a built-in onscreen keyboard on the iPhone that lacked the letter I. My bet is that he wouldn't be able to complete a single post. :-) :-) :-) This quoted part of your message was written by Barry. snip If you want to make a keyboard for Robin, leaving out the combinations 'space' 'm' 'e' 'space' and 'space' 'm' 'y' 'space' might also be helpful, otherwise he might go Tonto on us. Robin without the letter I? That's Rob'n. Then program the text-compactor into his editor, and let Bhairitu make it into a video-clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4HZPMuj6-o
Re: [FairfieldLife] New book, gives an interesting perspective on Maharishi
On 03/26/2013 02:11 PM, sparaig wrote: http://www.amazon.com/In-Himalayan-Nights-Anoop-Chandola/dp/0982998708 Dehradun City, Himalayas, India 1977: Two bright, beautiful, lesbian research assistants accompany their Indian professor to this city near the tense borders of China and Nepal to observe the “holy-war� dance of the Mahabharata and its link to polygamy and local heroes (or villains?). The girls begin to question the holiness of the Bhagavad Gita’s two polygamist avatars while watching the dance, even as they fall in love with India and their friendly hosts. While gathering data on women’s rights violations, caste discrimination, and animal cruelty, they discover more about their own culture, their relationship and themselves. When their hosts uncover the women’s secret love-life, they turn against them and the research team's existence is threatened. Will the Indian holy-war become a personal one between locals and outsiders, men against women, polygamists against lesbians, Indians against Americans? The answer lies in the Himalayan nights... The professor discusses Maharishi and the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath with fellow Indians at one point. Anoop Chondola is a an anthropologist and linguist specializing in Indian studies. He learned to meditate from the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath who was the direct successor of Gurudev. His family has close ties to the organization of scholars and religious leaders who chose Gurudev to be the Shankaracharya, so he has an interesting perspective on things. L Lawson, what character set are you using on the Mac? You and I suspect other Mac users display what are often extended characters on other machines that what they probably saw on their screen. Example: “holy-war� I think that Vag once said it was an incorrect character set that was causing the problem. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
Thank you Ann. I just thought Saly came across as quite dismissive based on one incosistency. I mean the field of physics is so full of what appear to be inconistencies until you come to a deeper understanding about it. How can light be both a particle and a wave? Well, it turns out it can be both. He then offered a more comprehensive critique which explained his position better, and I appreciated that. But while I am on the subject, it has been my observation that those who discount the notion of God have their own crutches that they will sometimes lean on. For example, while they dismiss a phrase like God in his mysterious way does A,B, or C, they will sometimes say, in a effort to bolster their arguments, There is so much we don't know about genetics, or so much we don't know about the brain I really see little differene in these two positions. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Somehow.it's an amazing thing, the soul:) Hey, Em, thanks for sharing your find. You seem to have a struck a nerve here in some quarters. Some look for what appear to be surface inconsistencies, not realizing those inconsistencies can often be resolved by a deeper understanding of the situation. Said like the very nice, sensitive man that you are Steve. You are a gentle/man. Sometimes intention and feeling of the writer behind a post is far more interesting to me than what they are actually saying. You came through loud and clear there. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander  I have been in the presence of someone who regularly suffered intense migraines, and someone else just after they had an NDE. The obvious difference in both was the sense of peace and acceptance experienced during the NDE, though superficial aspects of the experiences may sound similar. The assumption by Shermer is that the physical existence he experiences is the constant, with any existence beyond that, unknowable. This is the view of life, with death as its foundation. The alternative, that of life as its own foundation, is living the soul within to be the reality, and watching as it takes on a temporary vehicle, currently this body, aligns to it, and sets up a dynamic of Self awareness. Then after a hundred years or so, this body wears out, and the soul shimmers out of it, and continues its journey of self knowledge, somehow. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by Pat Devonas: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being genuinely out of body and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.) ... Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a similarity argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks [neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring' etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison: Compare Sack's experience with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky. Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamerlike lines behind them.. ... Then Shermer says In any case, there is a reason they are called 'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually dead. Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the experiences. . Finally, Dr. Shermer states To me, this evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven. . [his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
Well it's better than being a cookie monster, or a candy monster, which is where I sometimes find myself. (-: Actually my cousin had a family issue, so the Passover is schedeled for tomorrow, and I confess that I am looking forward to two or three glasses of Mogen David sweet wine. (-: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Wa! Steve, Laughing One Jelly Bean called me a literary monster! Will you go pummel him for me? BTW, hope you had a wonderful Passover (-: From: seventhray27 steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Hey, at least he's gotten into doing some research with regard to his postings. That's a new twist. And aren't we sorely tried to find something new in anything he posts? Like he's found a new pastime. As Edg would say, Good on ya Ravi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes.àObviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about!àHis brain I mean.àNeuroscience and all that bullocks.àAnyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity.àDear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?!àAnd all the effing this and effing that.àOne is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes!àIt's a new year.àEven in Western astrology.àEven in the Chinese system.àIt's a new season.àIt's almost a new month.àGet with the new program, Newphew!àSorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around.ààààFrom: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] àEveryone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization. Automated text summarization works best on expository text such as textbooks and reference material (non-fiction). The results can be skewed when a passage has only a few sentences. Text Compactor is not recommended for use with fiction (i.e., stories about imaginary people, places, events).' As the result with that post was not particularly good, I conclude Robin and his exposition is the result of
[FairfieldLife] A Soul in Heaven
by William-Adolphe Bourgerou, 1878. http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/1/7866.jpg
[FairfieldLife] Heaven and Earth
by Corrado Giaquinto, Italy: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=21571
[FairfieldLife] Post Count Wed 27-Mar-13 00:15:03 UTC
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 03/23/13 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 03/30/13 00:00:00 443 messages as of (UTC) 03/27/13 00:12:48 31 seventhray27 29 Ravi Chivukula 28 Buck 26 curtisdeltablues 25 doctordumbass 24 Share Long 21 laughinggull108 21 Ann 20 Bhairitu 19 turquoiseb 18 salyavin808 15 Robin Carlsen 15 Emily Reyn 14 navashok 13 card 13 Richard J. Williams 13 John 12 Yifu 11 sparaig 11 obbajeeba 10 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 9 nablusoss1008 9 feste37 6 Alex Stanley 5 PaliGap 4 Dick Mays 3 seekliberation 3 m2smart4u2000 3 Rick Archer 2 srijau 2 merlin 2 Duveyoung 1 merudanda 1 emilymae.reyn 1 azgrey 1 Seraphita 1 Ooyala 1 Goddess Ninmah Posters: 38 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
l'chaim (-: From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only] Well it's better than being a cookie monster, or a candy monster, which is where I sometimes find myself. (-: Actually my cousin had a family issue, so the Passover is schedeled for tomorrow, and I confess that I am looking forward to two or three glasses of Mogen David sweet wine. (-: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Wa! Steve, Laughing One Jelly Bean called me a literary monster! Will you go pummel him for me? BTW, hope you had a wonderful Passover (-: From: seventhray27 steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Hey, at least he's gotten into doing some research with regard to his postings. That's a new twist. And aren't we sorely tried to find something new in anything he posts? Like he's found a new pastime. As Edg would say, Good on ya Ravi --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around.    From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for each sentence based on the frequency count associated with the words it contains. The most important sentence is deemed to be the sentence with the highest frequency count.' 'Obviously, human readers may disagree with this automated approach to text summarization.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven and Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: by Corrado Giaquinto, Italy: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=21571 Manly P Hall on the polarity of *Heaven and Earth*. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-6aQ2qCTuI
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?
Very beautiful, navashok, thank you. I love that part about renouncing the renunciation even. I've never before heard of the Ribhu Gita. Is it part of the Vedic literature? I don't think we really have to let go of anything. That which is, is always letting go and holding on, That doesn't need any help from us. But I just walked to the library and the air was so fresh and the sun huge and orange on the western horizon. The branches of trees are still bare against the light blue sky, some birds are singing. At such a time Truth is a sweet companion. From: navashok no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: A professor at MUM once explained that as one progresses, especially from CC to GC, what happens can be described as the depth coming up to the surface of life. So we might not feel deep, even during TM. And we shouldn't TRY to feel deep. Deep is only a word. A concept. Deep also is used in deep sleep. I sometimes say, that I am very high up. But you are right. In a similar way it seems, with the TMSP, we more and more experience a mix of silence and liveliness together. So I extrapolate from that that it's counter productive to try and experience PURE silence. You can't try anyway. One has to remember that all these descriptions are concepts, and unless we let go of the concepts, we can't really get there. Here from the Ribhu Gita: All is a built-up structure of words and meanings. The apprehension of all worlds does not exist. All holy waters are, indeed, unreal. All temples of gods, too, are unreal. All being only Consciousness, the name all never is. Renouncing all forms, be of the certitude that all is Brahman. All is Brahman; that is the Truth. The phenomenal world and prakriti (manifestation), verily do not exist. Renounce the remembrance of prakriti and resort to the remembrance of Brahman. Then, renouncing even that, be firm in your own nature. Renouncing further this established nature, remain only as the Self. Renouncing the renunciation even, ever leave off the idea of any difference. Surrounding yourself yourself, abide in yourself yourself. What the finger points out as this is a deceased thought; this is only of words and speech. All is supposition. There is no doubt of this. All is unreal. There is no uncertainty of this. All is insignificant. There is no doubt of this. All is delusion. There is no doubt of this. (Rib.G 18, 24-30) From: navashok no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: It turns out that the EEG pattern of long-term TMers during TM remains the same as the EEG pattern found in short-term TMers: it's simple relaxation, no matter how long you have been doing it. Pure Consciousness is just the same pattern in its most extreme form. In every other meditation technique with published research, you see a shift away from simple relaxation towards something different, as you become more experienced. In other words, I wouldn't trust the words of a non-TM teacher with regards to your TM practice. They literally don't understand where you are at and can only attempt to transform your practice into their practice. Ahem. Isn't another way of interpreting your first two paragraphs that there is no *progress* in TM? *You* are the one interpreting simple relaxation (which never gets deeper or more profound) with Pure Consciousness. I doubt that scientists would. No progress in the technique... It is easy to start and easy to do and that doesn't change. What DOES change is how closely the state outside of TM comes to resemble the state during TM. But that's not all that is supposed to change. The quality of experience is supposed to change as well *during* meditation - as stress is released. Think of the snowplough analogy - as resistances (stresses) are being removed, the way gets more clear, and the experience of transcendence will be clearer and more prolonged. And for advanced techniques - you will go into transcendence more slowly, so that you are more conscious of the process. The diving angle changes, how is that reflected in your theory? That, being more conscious of the 'transcending' (I still put it in bracelets as it is really a concept - transcendence is all
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
I think Emily, being a strong and independent sort of WOMAN, could easily have written layman which is what we all usually default to. But she chose, quite consciously, to use woman in there, just as I would have. It isn't divisive or prickly it is simply giving the feminine its just recognition. It is a measure of her thoughtfulness. At least, that is what I think. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I will look up the word laywoman - ha. Â That's funny. Â Yep, like Turq I too wondered when I read across that particular word and weighed it. Emily was seeming rather hard on her own sex when it could have just as easily been about 'people'. Seemed like it was too prickly and needlessly divisive in a usage, sort of like a construction of a 'Men Only' meeting in the Fairfield community the other evening. -Buck From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book? Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. Â I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. The only reason I'm writing is to comment on your use of the word laywoman. I understand the usage, but am just pointing out that you might reconsider the term because the last time I heard it, it was being used by an Amsterdam prostitute to describe what she did for a living. :-) Should anyone be so humor-impaired as to no longer be able to recognize one, this was a joke. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Good rap, Curtis. For me, as I said earlier, any exhortation to read the book and then we can talk is meaningless *if I have zero interest in the subject matter of the book*. Reading it just isn't going to happen. In this particular instance, I have zero interest in people's subjective experience of NDEs. On a slightly higher level, however, I see this discussion (and some of the antipathy it has gener- ated) as an extension of my favorite quote from the FFL Home Page: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out. For some of us (you, me, Salyavin, Paligap, etc.), I think it is safe to class us as Wish to find out-ers. We are not committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs re (in this instance) life after death. Therefore when we encounter claims either pro or con about its existence, our PROCESS is simply to wish to find out. We don't approach any data we gather along the way as either confirming or denying something we believe in, cuz we (or in this case maybe just me) don't HAVE any fixed beliefs in this regard. For believers, those who DO have an investment in a belief (in this instance in life after death), when they encounter data that seems to contradict their beliefs, they perceive this as a challenge, or even as an insult. Their PROCESS in my opinion is often to search for data that *validates* or seems to prove their existing beliefs. So they glom onto subjective reports as if they were proof. When someone suggests that they're NOT proof, they sometimes get uppity because the contrary data is perceived as a challenge to their beliefs. Me, I roll with wish to find out. With regard to this particular instance, I tend to actually *have* beliefs in reincarnation and life after death, based on subjective experiences of my own. But I'm not attached to them. And I don't consider them anything *more* than beliefs. They are NOT truth or fact or anything approaching it. They are just theories that I've developed to explain my subjective experiences. So when I find data that seems to contradict these theories, it doesn't raise my hackles at all. Nothing is challenging a belief that I've invested in, and I can just as easily accept no life after death as I can accept life after death. Just my opinion... Just indeed. You are one of the greatest 'generalizers' I have ever come across. You are also the greatest hypothesizer of other peoples' beliefs and positions which is based on nothing but your own knee jerk, cookie cutter reactions which repeat themselves endlessly. I think you expound on what you think others believe, in their narrow little worlds, because you need a springboard off which to plunge into being able to talk unceasingly about yourself. Carry on, no one can stop you. I'm going to keep reading your posts simply because I am an eternal optimist. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi Emily, Hi five for bringing new material. I grabbed it at the library as soon as its catnip (for me) title had its effect. I had to read some of the critiques to understand the scientific issues with his claims. Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off. It taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run. In the long run it becomes more obvious! Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues with being confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology. He makes a few fatal errors in his assumptions. Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain can produce. I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even more compelling. His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously because of his background doesn't it? It worked on me. But in the end we have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had these experiences as his brain powered down and up. So we are left with another account that uses the tantalizing concept of near death which sounds more like death than not death in the same way that barely legal porn gets more Internet porn hits than legal porn. (Or so I am told having no first hand knowledge in this area.) Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to the bottom of life's deepest
[FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: turq on Lenz: When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. me to turq: what is significance of 5 star establishments in this context? Why put word courses in quotes? Probably because he would never like to think that what he was involved in with Lenz was as structured or mundane as some cult that would hold anything as pedestrian as a course. Also, it gave him the opportunity to let us all know that they wined and dined at overpriced establishments. After all, Barry wouldn't be involved in just ANY old cult - it was 5 STAR! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq and Ann  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq, is this the REAL truth about your attitude towards TMO?àThat they employ bad cooks and don't offer the local food?àI was speaking about one course in particular, on which the cooks could have spoiled the best food in the environment. On other courses they mainly rendered in bland and tasteless. Things may have gotten better over the years, but if not you may just not have a very developed palate. Are you really just a foodie after all?àI'm beginning to suspect that this is this case, having heard you wax fondly about French meals, etc.àAnd now this about the food on your TTC.àAnyway, I hear you and understand.àAnd admit that now I'm curious about the food associated with Mr. Lenz and his courses. When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. No movement cooks whatsoever. Also, most of us were omnivores, so accommodations were made for the real vegetarians, but few of them had to be made.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?
Beautiful here today also. Went for a drive with my wife, and a stroll. Ended up in Los Gatos, which is tucked right into the hills, and close by. Slight chill in the air with clear skies. Ended up at a coffee place where we joked around, and then came home. A good friend and angel decided to stop by soon after, which was great because we haven't seen her in forever. My wife and I refer to her as 'Miss America' - all 'round super woman. The weather continues to be great, and not hot enough to warm up the mexican beer in the garage on the cement floor. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Very beautiful, navashok, thank you. I love that part about renouncing the renunciation even. I've never before heard of the Ribhu Gita. Is it part of the Vedic literature? I don't think we really have to let go of anything. That which is, is always letting go and holding on, That doesn't need any help from us. But I just walked to the library and the air was so fresh and the sun huge and orange on the western horizon. The branches of trees are still bare against the light blue sky, some birds are singing. At such a time Truth is a sweet companion. From: navashok no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: A professor at MUM once explained that as one progresses, especially from CC to GC, what happens can be described as the depth coming up to the surface of life.àSo we might not feel deep, even during TM.àAnd we shouldn't TRY to feel deep. Deep is only a word. A concept. Deep also is used in deep sleep. I sometimes say, that I am very high up. But you are right. In a similar way it seems, with the TMSP, we more and more experience a mix of silence and liveliness together.àSo I extrapolate from that that it's counter productive to try and experience PURE silence. You can't try anyway. One has to remember that all these descriptions are concepts, and unless we let go of the concepts, we can't really get there. Here from the Ribhu Gita: All is a built-up structure of words and meanings. The apprehension of all worlds does not exist. All holy waters are, indeed, unreal. All temples of gods, too, are unreal. All being only Consciousness, the name all never is. Renouncing all forms, be of the certitude that all is Brahman. All is Brahman; that is the Truth. The phenomenal world and prakriti (manifestation), verily do not exist. Renounce the remembrance of prakriti and resort to the remembrance of Brahman. Then, renouncing even that, be firm in your own nature. Renouncing further this established nature, remain only as the Self. Renouncing the renunciation even, ever leave off the idea of any difference. Surrounding yourself yourself, abide in yourself yourself. What the finger points out as this is a deceased thought; this is only of words and speech. All is supposition. There is no doubt of this. All is unreal. There is no uncertainty of this. All is insignificant. There is no doubt of this. All is delusion. There is no doubt of this. (Rib.G 18, 24-30) From: navashok no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object? à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: It turns out that the EEG pattern of long-term TMers during TM remains the same as the EEG pattern found in short-term TMers: it's simple relaxation, no matter how long you have been doing it. Pure Consciousness is just the same pattern in its most extreme form. In every other meditation technique with published research, you see a shift away from simple relaxation towards something different, as you become more experienced. In other words, I wouldn't trust the words of a non-TM teacher with regards to your TM practice. They literally don't understand where you are at and can only attempt to transform your practice into their practice. Ahem. Isn't another way of interpreting your first two paragraphs that there is no *progress* in TM? *You* are the one interpreting simple relaxation (which never gets deeper or more profound) with Pure Consciousness. I doubt that scientists would. No progress in the technique... It is easy to start and easy to do and that doesn't
[FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq on Lenz: When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. me to turq: what is significance of 5 star establishments in this context? Why put word courses in quotes? 1. We never *had* courses in the sense in which you think of them from TM and the TMO. We never went to some location to learn some specific teaching, avail- able only there. When we went on the road, it was always a combination of fun, teaching, and journeying to places of power. And fun very much *was* a part of every such journey, and viewed as just as important as any teachings. For example, we used to travel to power places in the Southwest (Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, etc.), to Paris, Amsterdam, and London (for teaching and fun), and to other places like Hawaii or Bali. 2. There are rankings of both hotels and restaurants in the world, based on their quality. For example, there are about 10 five-star restaurants in Paris, but there are only 16 five-star restaurants in the entire United States, as rated by the same Michelin Guide. Rama felt very strongly that to be successful in one's profession (something he valued and taught), one had to become comfortable in such environments, so we tended to have special events in such places. There are similar ratings for hotels; when we went to both Paris and Hawaii, we stayed in five-star hotels there. In other words, do not make the mistake of thinking that spiritual paths were as spartan as they were in the TMO. And in answer to your unasked but likely question, no, not every student could afford these outings, but I could. My salary level quadrupled within a few years of beginning to study with the guy (largely due to his influence, prodding, and training he provided), and stayed high all the way through. Richard will probably chime in with horse- shit he's read on websites about students being dirt poor and giving all their money to the guy, but much of that is simply not true. When you're making over $1000 a day as a consultant on Wall Street, as I was towards the end of my time with the Rama guy, you can afford to eat or stay at five-star joints. five-star joints. Interesting choice of words. Reminds me of the days when I videotaped weddings and we were at a very upscale venue and the boor of a man who happened to be the groom turned to one of his well-heeled guests, grinned lasciviously holding up some $250 a bottle glass of champagne and chortled, much to the guest's horror, Good shit, isn't it? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain to turq and Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: turq, is this the REAL truth about your attitude towards TMO?ÃÂ That they employ bad cooks and don't offer the local food?ÃÂ I was speaking about one course in particular, on which the cooks could have spoiled the best food in the environment. On other courses they mainly rendered in bland and tasteless. Things may have gotten better over the years, but if not you may just not have a very developed palate. Are you really just a foodie after all?ÃÂ I'm beginning to suspect that this is this case, having heard you wax fondly about French meals, etc.ÃÂ And now this about the food on your TTC.ÃÂ Anyway, I hear you and understand.ÃÂ And admit that now I'm curious about the food associated with Mr. Lenz and his courses. When we went on courses we stayed in five-star hotels and dined at five-star restaurants. No movement cooks whatsoever. Also, most of us were omnivores, so accommodations were made for the real vegetarians, but few of them had to be made.
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Now hold on there just a daggone minute Missy Dirty Mind! 'Cavorting' in the bushes? Where do you come up with these ideas? Let's look at it again, this time with a pure mind: It had been a really long, long time since you had been checked (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), and seeker Steve, being the 'exceptional' checker that he is (of course, I wouldn't know from personal experience) was more than willing to oblige. The bushes along the river provided the privacy needed, and the springy patches of moss provided comfortable seats. However, the first attempt was interrupted (commonly referred to as checkus interruptus*) when seeker Xeno stumbled upon yours truly selling water by the river. As a result, seeker Steve was very anxious to get back at it because, being the 'exceptional' checker that he is, knows that coming out of a checking session too quickly and without completion can lead to a condition commonly referred to as Krishna butterballs* for the checker and lackus fulfillmentitus* for the checkee. (It's also worth noting that he tries never to end a checking prematurely.) However, nature was supportive in the end and both of you were able to have a nice, long uninterrupted checking in which seeker Steve, I guess one could say, checked your brains out. (And he chose to stay and meditate with you rather than quietly leave the bushes.) It is easy? You experienced how easy it is? Now this is how we will meditate morning and evening... *these are sacred terms learned only on a qualified TTC, and are not available for use by ordinary lay meditators. Raviji, like jelly beans, also comes in many flavors, including cinnamon. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around. From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25% to 50% compression. Some manual editing might be needed. The software works better if the original document has a well defined structure. 'HOW IT WORKS' 'After text is placed on the page, the web app calculates the frequency of each word in the passage. Then, a score is calculated for
[FairfieldLife] Re: G-sus?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Clever title. Man, he looks unhappy like he just figured out Dad's career path for him. But dad, if we wait 2000 years I can get a nice lethal injection and Christians can wear hypodermic needles around their necks. Do we have to do it in the days of crucifixion? Can't we even make it till they invent the guillotine? Sorry son we have already printed up all the promo materials and it would be a bitch to change them now. Perhaps if you attended some of the meetings instead of spending your time riding on dinosaurs like Fred Flintstones, your input could have been considered. This is bullshit dad, you are such a douche. WHAT was that you said? I said Kate Winlset, dad, has such a tush. Well we agree on that at least, I consider it one of my finest creations. Dumbass What? I said real class dad. Yeah all my British chicks sound classy, it's just the accent. Wow Curtis, (here comes that plate I was talking about but maybe we can watch Casablanca tomorrow and I'll bring the Duds) your smart, worldly-guy intelligence really spikes when you start talking about G-sus. There's gotta be something inside you that just LOVES to give 'er when you sense you've got the opening. You just seem to have endless material when it comes to giving the G-sus a good ribbing. I'm not even slightly religious and it still makes me wince. Maybe I'm just a little needle shy. Yea, that could be it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@ wrote: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/autot/art-1288551460454.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?
Can we put our attention on the experiencer? I'm not so sure. Isn't Guru Dev reported to have said it isn't possible to concentrate on the unmanifest? Or is that something else he was talking about. My experience and understanding from Edwin Bryant's YS commentary is that with greater purity pure awareness is reflected back to itself. It doesn't matter whether there are thoughts or no thoughts. My experience in meditation is if I want to think any piece of the mantra, it thrills the experiencer, pure awareness. If I don't want to, pure awareness is thrilled with whatever else the attention is on. Great dialogue. With tradition as a guide, experiencing all things anew . . . --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@... wrote: First of all Lawson, I really appreciate the dialogue we are having. Don't think that I want to dump TM. I think it is a very good technique to start meditation, and I think that at a later stage it is up to everybody to either continue to advance with TM or with something else. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suspect you are both misreading what Lawson had in mind. He isn't stupid, and he knows the TM research better than anyone here. I'm not sure what he means either, but I'd suggest you wait to draw any conclusions until he can clarify. It's very highly unlikely that either of you would be able to come up with something he had missed or hadn't accounted for. The pattern during TM is one of increased alpha EEG coherence, and that starts to level off (but never completely stops changing) after a few months of TM , but the longer one has been practicing the more the EEG outside of TM practice starts to resemble the EEG during TM practice. Now, the EEG found during pure consciousness is the most coherent found in a given TMer and if you look just at the EEG during PC, there's obviously some room for refinement during practice, but the average outside of practice starts to resemble the average during, and that was my point... because, in contrast, the average EEG during mantra-based meditation What do you mean by mantra based meditation? TM IS mantra based. Well, technically, a mantra is used in TM practice, but mantra-based practices are considered focused attention practices, and those tend to show more and more gamma EEG the longer you have been doing them. Okay. shifts from relaxed alpha to concentrative gamma as one becomes more experienced, and the average EEG outside of such practices also shifts towards less alpha and more gamma. And that is bad or worse? How do you know? Well, insomuch as these techniques all tend to fragment the brain as a side-effect of the long-term practice, while PC is a period where the brain is idling in a vary coherent way, showing the EEG associated with relaxation and rest, rather than concentration and effort, I have no way of knowing... In my experience, with higher states there comes a spontaneous concentration, really concentrated awareness, completely focused and without effort. Maharishi might say point value. Well with TM, if you REALLY are in samadhi (pure consciousness), you can't note it until such time as some degree of waking state consciousness reassumes, and by then, you are no longer in the pure state. And this is something that raises question marks for me. How could you say that you experience pure consciousness, when you 'notice' it only afterwards? Does it mean you are not conscious during the experience, or does it mean you are unable to press a button while you are in? What kind of 'purity' is this, when it is *lost* so easily? So whole model of having pure consciousness, as an overlay over normal activity, and also the normally active mind, rests on the assertion, that the purity of PC doesn't get lost, right? I think that the whole contradiction comes about, because of the definitions, how you define PC in TM, and then attribute a certain physiological signature to it. In this way, you already limit how it can be expressed in activity. Really speaking you should start from the other end, find somebody who lives in CC / GC /UC, and then measure his brainwaves, and then compare it to the experiences that are called 'transcending' in TM. How does a person in TM know he has transcended? It is clear that he is being told so. The technical definition in TM of TC is: No mantra, no thought. But that could be some kind of nap too! Maybe it#s yoga nidra. I have very practical
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. � I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck You do recall that Maharishi said in relation to someone asking him where do you go when you die in CC? He said you do not go anywhere. And that you do not get to come back, precisely because you have not gone. Oh, I think dropping the instrument we call the human body probably leaves us with a sensation or two. In fact, I am sure of it. Getting out of it might even be a little like getting out of a strait jacket. Or something worse. And during that process I am also pretty sure we will be travelling somewhere in our experience which IS actually the result of moving somewhere. I don't believe in all this stuff about already being realized and pure consciousness and all that. If I don't experience it, it ain't happening and the fact that the reality exists SOMEWHERE, that that is all there really is, is irrelevant to me as it therefore exists only as an idea and ideas are not meaty enough to compare to living reality. Of course, I am fully in ignorance as measured by Eastern standards but it's all I got and I'm going to take it to the max.
[FairfieldLife] Be Kind and They Will Come
Anything that adds more kindness to the world is a good thing, says Jerry Greenfield. When companies measure social good at the same time they measure how much money they make, we'll be in a better place. USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/03/25/kindness-panera-brea d-nordstrom-starbucks/1965183/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: But what if you wish for something really really hard, then I think it could come true, right? Like one time I wished on a star for ten days straight for something I really, really wanted and on the eleventh day do you know what happened? A 12 inch pianist knocked on my door. I don't get it. I figure God's wish spell check app sucks as badly as ours does, but I still consider it a proof of concept even if it wasn't exactly what I was asking for. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. Â One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard Only *two* ways to be fooled? You are overly optimistic. Delusion is a primary human characteristic. I have not read this book, probably have not the time. I read another one though - 'the Spiritual Doorway in the Brain' by Kevin Nelson, a neurologist who has been studying this phenomenon for some 30 years. He came to a different conclusion: Some comments on the Alexander book by others: http://www.salon.com/2012/11/26/dr_eben_alexanders_so_called_after_life/ http://www.realitysandwich.com/when_proof_not_enough_eben_alexander http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1385027/Revealed-The-truth-near-death-experiences.html I tend to think life after death is an idiotic concept if one is attempting to be 'spiritual'. All experiences require consciousness. That is what the 'spirit' in 'spiritual' is. It is associated with every possible experience, and it does not matter if you can come up with a definition for it or not, we all have it. If it was not there, zero experience. No matter what experience, consciousness is there, pure existential value. Spiritually this what we are. This is our location. It does not matter what the experience is or where it seems to be, the consciousness is there as its container so to speak. Nothing outside of it can be an experience or knowable. Therefore it is meaningless to discuss other places one can be. One's life is just this sparkling whatever it is that makes experience possible. It is always where you are, because it is you. The other you, the 'me' is just a story inside this container that makes life knowable. Its a selective, quirky narrative about the relationships within the larger container of experience, and that narrative typically borders on insanity. The people who have NDEs are alive. People who are dead tell us nothing. That is the logical gap that makes evaluation of this situation impossible to resolve. Note that about 10% of NDE experiences recorded are hellish. Perhaps the attitude one has toward this issue is related to the answer to this question: 'Are you afraid to die?' My experience is that people who believe in an afterlife often seem very fearful of death. They believe they are going to a much better place, but seem to have a strong resistance to be in that better place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Majorca Spain
Yeah, I remembered Majorca real well, we rented a car to tour the Island and on the way back the brakes went out!! So, 'thanks to my passenger' I understood the value of the *emergency brake*, we got home safely, thank God. It is a well cultivated Island with a lot of History, not like the American West in comparison. I got my first advance technique there from MMY, it was wonderful, we were just this side of Cosmic Cosmic Consciousness after-all. MMY was great, we had it licked..until we grew up, that is. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hey Barry, Would you mind rapping about Majorca for a minute? I have been offered a crib there for a vacation with my GF from a Scandinavian couple living here, who owns a place, but never goes there. I'm imagining fresh octopus and sardines right off the boat, simmering in olive oil, and then hit with lemon before serving. It is on the side that faces Ibiza right on the water. The connection with the old movement days adds a comic twist to it all. Do go there, many nice places particularily in Palma with it's beautiful old town. The economy runs rather low at the moment so please bring your instruments, they need something to laugh about these days.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: But what if you wish for something really really hard, then I think it could come true, right? Like one time I wished on a star for ten days straight for something I really, really wanted and on the eleventh day do you know what happened? A 12 inch pianist knocked on my door. I don't get it. That's because most men don't have 12-inch penises. I figure God's wish spell check app sucks as badly as ours does, but I still consider it a proof of concept even if it wasn't exactly what I was asking for. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Read the book and get back to me...your research is perhaps not comprehensive enough..There are two ways to be fooled. Â One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. - Soren Kierkegaard Only *two* ways to be fooled? You are overly optimistic. Delusion is a primary human characteristic. I have not read this book, probably have not the time. I read another one though - 'the Spiritual Doorway in the Brain' by Kevin Nelson, a neurologist who has been studying this phenomenon for some 30 years. He came to a different conclusion: Some comments on the Alexander book by others: http://www.salon.com/2012/11/26/dr_eben_alexanders_so_called_after_life/ http://www.realitysandwich.com/when_proof_not_enough_eben_alexander http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1385027/Revealed-The-truth-near-death-experiences.html I tend to think life after death is an idiotic concept if one is attempting to be 'spiritual'. All experiences require consciousness. That is what the 'spirit' in 'spiritual' is. It is associated with every possible experience, and it does not matter if you can come up with a definition for it or not, we all have it. If it was not there, zero experience. No matter what experience, consciousness is there, pure existential value. Spiritually this what we are. This is our location. It does not matter what the experience is or where it seems to be, the consciousness is there as its container so to speak. Nothing outside of it can be an experience or knowable. Therefore it is meaningless to discuss other places one can be. One's life is just this sparkling whatever it is that makes experience possible. It is always where you are, because it is you. The other you, the 'me' is just a story inside this container that makes life knowable. Its a selective, quirky narrative about the relationships within the larger container of experience, and that narrative typically borders on insanity. The people who have NDEs are alive. People who are dead tell us nothing. That is the logical gap that makes evaluation of this situation impossible to resolve. Note that about 10% of NDE experiences recorded are hellish. Perhaps the attitude one has toward this issue is related to the answer to this question: 'Are you afraid to die?' My experience is that people who believe in an afterlife often seem very fearful of death. They believe they are going to a much better place, but seem to have a strong resistance to be in that better place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. � I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck You do recall that Maharishi said in relation to someone asking him where do you go when you die in CC? He said you do not go anywhere. And that you do not get to come back, precisely because you have not gone. Oh, I think dropping the instrument we call the human body probably leaves us with a sensation or two. In fact, I am sure of it. Getting out of it might even be a little like getting out of a strait jacket. Or something worse. And during that process I am also pretty sure we will be travelling somewhere in our experience which IS actually the result of moving somewhere. I don't believe in all this stuff about already being realized and pure consciousness and all that. If I don't experience it, it ain't happening and the fact that the reality exists SOMEWHERE, that that is all there really is, is irrelevant to me as it therefore exists only as an idea and ideas are not meaty enough to compare to living reality. Of course, I am fully in ignorance as measured by Eastern standards but it's all I got and I'm going to take it to the max. Yes - I like to look at how nature works here on Earth, El Slabbo Grande, easy stuff, like how gravity operates, and clouds form and dissipate and rain comes and goes, the sun goes up and down, love permeates, and expands - I like seeing the efficiency, the ease with which the natural world operates, and then match the easy majesty of that rhythm the best that I can, dancing with life, with all its humanity and divinity, and intensity. The most consistent spiritual teacher I have had throughout my life is the natural world. If I extrapolate into other worlds (including physical body death), I figure it'll feel just like this one does, and will make sense, and have meaning and discovery too. Not that big a deal, and in absolutely no hurry to find out - Nourished by Mother Earth now, and loving it (though definitely bottle fed, vs. the whole natural nutrition thing...). Here's a song I did in 2008 or so, called No Suffering (5:03) - I don't think I ever published it - sometimes have to wait for stuff to catch up: https://www.box.com/s/4isjthynruicp14x6d08 copyright templedog
[FairfieldLife] Ignorance so thick you could cut it with a knife, Jerrry Jarvis
Nations operating under the influence of complete ignorance of Natural Law! Don't know the deference between the significance of anal, oral or vagina sex, as if they were all equal in their significance and outcome. Ignorance of the purpose of life itself; and the sacred, holy power of shakti (the sex power) to either elevate or degrade man. To Regenerate the (Creative powers), Generate (Offspring), or De-generate (gratuitous sex), as the case maybe . Thus has Religion been the harbinger of behavior (karma).
[FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]
I have always been a proponent of regular checking. But quite honestly, there have been times when I have not been able to cover all the checking steps and have had to settle for an abbreviated version. But the end result has still always been satisfactory. At least that has been my experience. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: dear Laughing One Jelly Bean please do not be hurt that Ravi has totally forgotten the plot line of your Garden of Eden saga in which Xeno was NOT the one with whom I was cavorting in the bushes. Now hold on there just a daggone minute Missy Dirty Mind! 'Cavorting' in the bushes? Where do you come up with these ideas? Let's look at it again, this time with a pure mind: It had been a really long, long time since you had been checked (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), and seeker Steve, being the 'exceptional' checker that he is (of course, I wouldn't know from personal experience) was more than willing to oblige. The bushes along the river provided the privacy needed, and the springy patches of moss provided comfortable seats. However, the first attempt was interrupted (commonly referred to as checkus interruptus*) when seeker Xeno stumbled upon yours truly selling water by the river. As a result, seeker Steve was very anxious to get back at it because, being the 'exceptional' checker that he is, knows that coming out of a checking session too quickly and without completion can lead to a condition commonly referred to as Krishna butterballs* for the checker and lackus fulfillmentitus* for the checkee. (It's also worth noting that he tries never to end a checking prematurely.) However, nature was supportive in the end and both of you were able to have a nice, long uninterrupted checking in which seeker Steve, I guess one could say, checked your brains out. (And he chose to stay and meditate with you rather than quietly leave the bushes.) It is easy? You experienced how easy it is? Now this is how we will meditate morning and evening... *these are sacred terms learned only on a qualified TTC, and are not available for use by ordinary lay meditators. Raviji, like jelly beans, also comes in many flavors, including cinnamon. Obviously the San Diego sun and southern CA ambiance has addled his brain, which he, meaning Ravi of course, doesn't even like us to talk about! His brain I mean. Neuroscience and all that bullocks. Anyway, more evidence of this addling is his being stuck in the past with talk of psychological rape and inauthenticity. Dear LOJB, isn't that just so so LAST year?! And all the effing this and effing that. One is sorely tempted to urge Nephew to get some new material for gosh sakes! It's a new year. Even in Western astrology. Even in the Chinese system. It's a new season. It's almost a new month. Get with the new program, Newphew! Sorry couldn't resist that lame pun smiley faces all around. From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Cliff Notes Robin [previously Re: Men only]  Everyone on this forum is just text on a screen to me. Thank you Guru Xeno - this is what I like about you. You are at least honest - and admit you are a cold-hearted, emotionless, distant, dead man basically, of dead beliefs, of inane platitudes - having sexual orgies in your mind with words, even your hard-ons while you are having sex with words might be just a word in your mind called hard-on. It really reflects in your writing - everytime I read you it's astonishing, it's as if you are a zombie. And then equally hilarious is when I see someone like Share react to you - it's as if she actually had sex with you and you made her come. I'm always tempted to ask you and Share to take your orgies offline. Hail to Guru Zombie Xeno !!! On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Ok, that was silly. I went to your link and typed in some text. I made it longer and played with the percentage to keep or edit. All it did was randomly leave in or take out stuff. I don't get why you need a program to do this. Many of us do it naturally by the way we read, which is often sloppy or, because of pre-conceived notions about things, we fail to take in half of what anyone is actually saying. All of us are text compactors already and I don't think it benefits us all that much. I don't require a computer to do it FOR me! This kind of software is designed to produce 'executive summaries', and well designed programs do not use random selection. However the sample of Robin's was huge, and the compression was to about 5% which is really far too much. Normally you get reasonable results with 25%
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it possible for 'aware-ness' to be an object?
- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@ wrote: I think that the whole contradiction comes about, because of the definitions, how you define PC in TM, and then attribute a certain physiological signature to it. In this way, you already limit how it can be expressed in activity. Really speaking you should start from the other end, find somebody who lives in CC / GC /UC, and then measure his brainwaves, and then compare it to the experiences that are called 'transcending' in TM. Great idea! I'd really be curious about the comparisons - Puts the cart back behind the horse. Experience proves consciousness, not somebody sitting in a lab doing TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sound of stillness soundofstillness@... wrote: First of all Lawson, I really appreciate the dialogue we are having. Don't think that I want to dump TM. I think it is a very good technique to start meditation, and I think that at a later stage it is up to everybody to either continue to advance with TM or with something else. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suspect you are both misreading what Lawson had in mind. He isn't stupid, and he knows the TM research better than anyone here. I'm not sure what he means either, but I'd suggest you wait to draw any conclusions until he can clarify. It's very highly unlikely that either of you would be able to come up with something he had missed or hadn't accounted for. The pattern during TM is one of increased alpha EEG coherence, and that starts to level off (but never completely stops changing) after a few months of TM , but the longer one has been practicing the more the EEG outside of TM practice starts to resemble the EEG during TM practice. Now, the EEG found during pure consciousness is the most coherent found in a given TMer and if you look just at the EEG during PC, there's obviously some room for refinement during practice, but the average outside of practice starts to resemble the average during, and that was my point... because, in contrast, the average EEG during mantra-based meditation What do you mean by mantra based meditation? TM IS mantra based. Well, technically, a mantra is used in TM practice, but mantra-based practices are considered focused attention practices, and those tend to show more and more gamma EEG the longer you have been doing them. Okay. shifts from relaxed alpha to concentrative gamma as one becomes more experienced, and the average EEG outside of such practices also shifts towards less alpha and more gamma. And that is bad or worse? How do you know? Well, insomuch as these techniques all tend to fragment the brain as a side-effect of the long-term practice, while PC is a period where the brain is idling in a vary coherent way, showing the EEG associated with relaxation and rest, rather than concentration and effort, I have no way of knowing... In my experience, with higher states there comes a spontaneous concentration, really concentrated awareness, completely focused and without effort. Maharishi might say point value. Well with TM, if you REALLY are in samadhi (pure consciousness), you can't note it until such time as some degree of waking state consciousness reassumes, and by then, you are no longer in the pure state. And this is something that raises question marks for me. How could you say that you experience pure consciousness, when you 'notice' it only afterwards? Does it mean you are not conscious during the experience, or does it mean you are unable to press a button while you are in? What kind of 'purity' is this, when it is *lost* so easily? So whole model of having pure consciousness, as an overlay over normal activity, and also the normally active mind, rests on the assertion, that the purity of PC doesn't get lost, right? I think that the whole contradiction comes about, because of the definitions, how you define PC in TM, and then attribute a certain physiological signature to it. In this way, you already limit how it can be expressed in activity. Really speaking you should start from the other end, find somebody who lives in CC / GC /UC, and then measure his brainwaves, and then compare it to the experiences that are called 'transcending' in TM. How does a person in TM know he has transcended? It is clear that he is being told so. The technical definition in TM of TC is: No mantra, no
[FairfieldLife] Born Gay?
Or, is it due to decisions made in a previous life? (Reincarnation).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proof of Heaven - has anyone actually read this book?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: I just finished this book. It is quite accessible to a laywoman such as myself and is quite fascinating from many perspectives. � I have not read the book, and in fact have no interest whatsoever in reading or hearing about people's NDE experiences; I'll find out what, if anything, happens after death soon enough, when I have a DE. As for NDE's, IMO more people should be concerned with having NLE's than NDE's. That is, they're so worried/concerned/planning for what happens after death that they miss Life entirely. Om Shanti, Prepare ye the way. Son, certainly you'll have your own NDE soon enough. Hence, The Golden Domes of Pure Knowledge are a perfect place to work on the subtle systems of spiritual experience which transmigrate on. While on Earth, Make hay while the sun shines; Make haste! Make haste while you got a soul embodied human nervous system on earth. It's an incredible opportunity in life. -Buck in the Dome We have had a steady stream of meditators leaving the planet in recent years as we demographically move on and when it is spiritually done well it is a spectacular grace, spiritually speaking. Another One just left early this morning. RIP. -Buck You do recall that Maharishi said in relation to someone asking him where do you go when you die in CC? He said you do not go anywhere. And that you do not get to come back, precisely because you have not gone. Oh, I think dropping the instrument we call the human body probably leaves us with a sensation or two. In fact, I am sure of it. Getting out of it might even be a little like getting out of a strait jacket. Or something worse. And during that process I am also pretty sure we will be travelling somewhere in our experience which IS actually the result of moving somewhere. I don't believe in all this stuff about already being realized and pure consciousness and all that. If I don't experience it, it ain't happening and the fact that the reality exists SOMEWHERE, that that is all there really is, is irrelevant to me as it therefore exists only as an idea and ideas are not meaty enough to compare to living reality. Of course, I am fully in ignorance as measured by Eastern standards but it's all I got and I'm going to take it to the max. Yes - I like to look at how nature works here on Earth, El Slabbo Grande, easy stuff, like how gravity operates, and clouds form and dissipate and rain comes and goes, the sun goes up and down, love permeates, and expands - I like seeing the efficiency, the ease with which the natural world operates, and then match the easy majesty of that rhythm the best that I can, dancing with life, with all its humanity and divinity, and intensity. The most consistent spiritual teacher I have had throughout my life is the natural world. If I extrapolate into other worlds (including physical body death), I figure it'll feel just like this one does, and will make sense, and have meaning and discovery too. Not that big a deal, and in absolutely no hurry to find out - Nourished by Mother Earth now, and loving it (though definitely bottle fed, vs. the whole natural nutrition thing...). Good one, you're talking like my kinda human. I'll listen to your song now. Here's a song I did in 2008 or so, called No Suffering (5:03) - I don't think I ever published it - sometimes have to wait for stuff to catch up: https://www.box.com/s/4isjthynruicp14x6d08 copyright templedog
[FairfieldLife] Re: Be Kind and They Will Come
Yes, the field of dreams..oh oh, oops, yikes, it's a field of dreams!; but Rick loves to believe in a dream! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: Anything that adds more kindness to the world is a good thing, says Jerry Greenfield. When companies measure social good at the same time they measure how much money they make, we'll be in a better place. USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/03/25/kindness-panera-brea d-nordstrom-starbucks/1965183/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Born Gay?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u no_reply@... wrote: Or, is it due to decisions made in a previous life? (Reincarnation). for a guy who is homophobic you are pretty interested in the subject.
[FairfieldLife] Vedic Engineering
Dr. John Hagelin explains the nature of Dark Energy in terms of scientific cosmology. And, MMY shows us how to take advantage of Vedic engineering to accomplish anything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMKFGeTxVpU
