[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
Patrick, thanks for this, couldn't agree more. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maharishi's commentary says: > > > >This acceptance of the teacher is actually a surrender to the > > unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through the > > teacher. > > Instead of "the teacher," read "life." > > "This acceptance of life is actually a surrender to the > unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine > forth through life." > > And we have the work of Byron Katie. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Thank you very much for the suggestion. I have the deepest respect (and affection) for Nisargadatta and consider him one the big influences in my life, perhaps second in my heart only to Maharishi and Guru Dev. Coming upon him (here, of course, on FFL) only a few years after I had re-begun meditation and puja after a lengthy hiatus I was overwhelmed with gratitude for his simple elucidation of atma-vichara. It's put everything I ever learned from Maharishi into play. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Marek Reavis wrote: > > Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 - > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras > > > Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to > > speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners > > were more sincere. > > If you ever come to India, to Bombay, there is a Samadhi were > Nisargadattas Gurus Siddharamesh Ashes are kept. Also Nisargadatta was > cremated there, but there is no Samadhi. There are also two Gurubais > of N. there, one is Ranjit Maharaj. The place is beautiful, near the > ocean. Go to 'Ban Ganga', ask for the Smashan (cremation ground), and > have a nice meditation there. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banganga_Tank > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Perhaps so -- and if so, who knows how many different ways what you have said (below) could be reconciled with what Nisargadatta said or if that makes any difference; both ways of understanding the monkey (and bear) armies of the Ramayana speak to different ways of interpreting the narrative. The Puranas and Itihasa speak on so many different levels of analysis. I'd forgotten about the celestial nature of the different monkey players. Thank you. But isn't Hanuman the *son* of Vayu, rather than an incarnation of him? I'm under the belief that Hanuman is an incarnation of Shiva -- a "part-" incarnation. Again, I'm sure there's evidence of both in the literature. Thanks again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Please Note, the Vanarahs of Monkeys are incarnations of Devas. Vali was the incarnation of indra the king of the Devas. Hanuman incarnation of Vayu and so on. > > Ravana got a boon from Shiva that no celestial could kill him. So the Devas incarnated themselves as Monkeys to assist Vishnu who incarnated as Rama. Note that these were not ordinary animals. They were intellectual and supernatural beings. > > > Marek Reavis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 - > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras > > > Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that the > Westerners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that as > their reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnated > in the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. > > Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to > speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners > were more sincere. > > > > > - > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
**Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > **SNIP** > > The premise of TM is that it enriches all areas of life > because it "enlivens" the substrate of life, pure > consciousness. We don't notice consciousness is > missing because it's flat and featureless. Maharishi > said this is the one experience that's missing; add > it, and you'll benefit. And that's pretty much what > most of us have experienced. > > Peter Sutphen has posited that most TMers are > saturated with that flat awareness to the point > that they're ripe to bursting if given a practice > that "pulls it out," so to speak. The sidhis do > that to an extent, but many seem to profit from > something else. > > If this premise is true, it would make sense that > anything we do after doing TM would bring > noticeable results. Those results might make > TM look bad, but remember that TM brings > flatness, not flash. > > I've mentioned here before about how a TM > teacher at the Iowa City Center back in the > day, Susan Isaacs, once commented about > how flat everything is. There was a reason > for that. > > As for non-TMers getting great results from > Vortex Healing, or whatever: if the notion of > collective consciousness is valid, and collective > consciousness is on the rise as even non-TMers > say it is, people who pursue spiritual and self- > development practices today will get better results > than those of us who learned back in the day. > > I was always impressed by and envious of people > who'd learn TM from me in the '80s and early '90s, > the last times I taught, because their experiences > were so textbook clear. Those people really > demonstrated to me the validity of collective > consciousness theories. > > In summary, I think it's great that all these practices > other than TM are generating such great results for > people. I'd like to get me some of those myself. But > I don't consider those results to negate the value of > TM. On the contrary, for the reasons above, those > great results could be construed as validating > Maharishi's premise that everything gets better with > TM, and that his programs contribute to a rise in > collective consciousness. > **END** This is very much the way I feel it is, too. When I read Nisargadatta and began to supplement my regular TM (sans sidhi) practice with regular Self-Inquiry (atma vichara) I was, first of all, amazed at how powerful "AV" was and secondly, how surprising that was because all it seemed to do was to isolate what was already quite familiar, both in meditation and out, but somehow unnoticed. It made me laugh to realize that the "Self" really was the Self. My attention had been on the finger for too long. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
**Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I > > remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to > > the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I > > know that we never signed any document. > > Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and > certainly don't remember signing or being presented > with any kind of document. But I've run into people > from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, > so I've always wondered whether the "document signing" > thang they talk about happened only in their minds > or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't > attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean > towards the former interpretation. > **END** Fiuggi was a monster course; the first TTC, I believe, that was longer than 3 months, with several different course you could attend with different start and end dates and for those who were on either a 6-month or 9-month course track you were in 2 different countries during your course (not to mention a cavalcade of different hotels); the whole organization was overstrained (to say the least). Maharishi never had those numbers to deal with before (the "earphone technique" was as much a dry run on the technology of making large numbers of initiators simultaneously as it was a technique for our personal sadhana). Consequently, I believe that there just wasn't enough organization for the movement to have us actually get around to signing anything by the end of that course. And for those who actually did sign documents at the end of their TTC, even if they themselves don't have a copy of what they signed, the TMO would have to prove that they did actually sign or made a verbal agreement to the same terms and conditions (whatever those may have been -- and weren't they different from course to course?). As has been pointed out here before, the TMO has likely lost most of the documents that teachers did sign, in any case. Without the individual's signed agreement, and with some individuals like ourselves who never signed anything on our course, the TMO would seem to have a problem in proving that any specific teacher actually did agree to anything. However, that, too, cuts both ways. If an individual teacher claims no liability to the TMO because there is no enforceable agreement with the TMO because no proof that they ever entered into such an agreement, then that same individual would be barred from teaching "TM" because there is no proof that they have some documented authority to teach that brand. It all gets back to what Judy said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
**Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >**SNIP**> > Maharishi: "What I have taught, because it has its > eternal authenticity in the vedic literature and > you should know that, how many? 30 - 40 thousand > teachers of TM I have trained and many of them have > gone on their own and they may not call it Maharishi's > TM but they are teaching it in some different name > here and there. So there's a lot of these, artificial > things are going on, doesn't matter, as long as the > man is getting something useful to make his life > better, we are satisfied." > **SNIP** > > Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted above > and realize that MMY is giving his blessing to those > who want to teach independently of the organization. > > He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, as > any CEO would, but you don't have to be an employee > to teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are* > an employee--which means, in this case, picking a > different name for what you're teaching. > > As someone pointed out, there doesn't seem to be any > legal reason why you can't say you were trained to > teach meditation by MMY, and you're teaching what he > taught you to teach, except that because you aren't > working for the TMO, you can't use the TM trademark. > > If you value the TM technique and think it helps > people, you're free to continue doing what you signed > up to do in the first place. It seems to me the > only reason you'd have for being shocked and saddened > is that you don't get to promote, and your students > don't get to take advantage of, a lot of the other > stuff the TMO offers. But that would mean you'd have > to value that other stuff equally with the TM > technique. If you don't, what's the problem? > > You don't get to have the legitimacy of the TMO behind > you, but most who are teaching independently are doing > so because they don't think the TMO any longer *has* > legitimacy. You can't have it both ways. > > You *do* have to figure out a way to promote what > you're teaching so it's attractive to prospective > students without the TM name. You need to exercise > some ingenuity, perhaps get together with some other > independent teachers and establish your own brand. > > In a way, it's like proprietary vs. generic drugs. > Seems to me MMY is saying, in essence, that the TM > patent claim has expired (or whatever the legal term > is). Drug companies that developed a drug and > trademarked it can still sell that drug under the > proprietary name once the patent has expired, but > others are free to produce and market it under other > names; they just can't take advantage of the original > drug company's marketing, they have to develop their > own. > > I suspect that one of the major goals, if not *the* > goal, of this lawsuit is to make all this explicit. > So far, everybody has been focusing on what it will > mean independent teachers *cannot* do, but it should > also help establish what they *can* do. And the > restrictions don't appear to be such that they'll > prevent TM from being taught outside the TMO. > > You can look at all this as something being taken > away from you, or you can look at it as something > being *given* to you. Whatever obligations you may > have had to MMY and the TMO have been canceled, and > you get to take this precious knowledge--if you > consider it as such--and spread it as far and wide > as you can. > **END** Excellent point (and analysis). If a teacher has something about them that confirms to the potential student that she or he really is an authority of some sort on meditation then they (the potential student) will want to learn from them. If the independent teacher cannot promote his/her teaching as being authorized by Maharishi or the TMO then that means the independent teacher really has to personally radiate more consciousness, more personal authority, than was perhaps necessary in the past. If the teacher doesn't have that real authority then even if they have the ability to successfully pass on the technique at initiation they still won't have that many takers. This actually seems to be a good thing for a truly independent teacher, as Judy points out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
**Another take below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Always keep a light-saber handy. > --- > "It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you > have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated > on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma." > > "So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge > from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus?" > > "Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the > celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall > down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging > themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in > the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one > of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they > conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. > Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling > themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? > Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will > be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the > dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and > still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in > spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's > play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the > monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one > thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide > that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya > [rishi and guru of the demons]... > > ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready > he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. > It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, > because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they > tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their > innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and > again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for > sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I > am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no > means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too." > > from "Karma" by Robert Svoboda > detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert > Svoboda > **END** Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that the Westerners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that as their reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnated in the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
**Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What conditions were attached? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For one, teaching under the auspices of the particular TMO name > > > that > > > > is cited in the written contract that most teachers that were > > ever > > > > made teachers by MMY signed, and to not deviate from those > > > > teachings... > > > > > > > > Are you a teacher of TM? If so, when you were made a teacher, > > do > > > > you not remember signing a document? > > > > > > > > I do... > > > > > > > I was not given a copy of this document. Is it still a valid > > > contract? > > > > > > JohnY > > > > > > > I always thought that a signed contract is only valid when both > > parties receive a copy of it. > > > > That's what I thought too, and it's the reason I'm asking. > IANAL :-) > > JohnY **END** You don't need to exchange documents for the contract to be valid and enforceable. The document is a memorial of the agreement made between the parties, and it's also a handy reference for the parties to come back to if they end up somewhere down the road having different interpretations of what the elements of the agreement were. That's the reason why you exchange the document. I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 7 lifetimes to reach Cosmic Consciousness..
**Comment below** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > One disconcerting thing that was obvious very soon and persisted > throughout these sessions was the almost absolute infrequency with > which descriptions ever strayed outside of either established TM- > speak or advaito-speak. It was almost absolutely a closed loop: no > freshness or newness. Although it seemed as if newness and freshness > could be contrived, it was unconvincing compared to the freshness of > the natural state. > **END** In the mid- late-70's my (then) spouse and I led several ATR courses, both at MIU and also at the Soboba Hot Springs Academy near Hemet/San Jacinto. At that time on ATRs Maharishi had course participants break up into small experience groups after lunch and discuss their experiences with each other; essentially mini-satsangs. As course leaders we were supposed to roam around and sit in on the groups for 20 minutes to a half-hour per but not necessarily participate, merely observe. It always seemed "obvious" who was truly having "experiences" because they virtually always reported that they "finally understood" what Maharishi was talking about (regarding some particular feature of enlightenment, or the teaching, etc.) but then they would go on to describe their experiences in a totally unique (and convincing) fashion, oftentimes they were really wonderful expressions of the truth that (for me, at least) really illuminated something in a way that I had not heard before. Others, however, generally parroted the language of Maharishi or occassionally other saints, or lifted things from the Gita but never seemed convincing. I'm not sure which satsang group Vaj is referring to in his post but his last paragraph (above) reminded me of these earlier experiences with a similar or identical dynamic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Birthday Ben Collins
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Have a good one, Ben. Do a special puja or something. > ** Happy Birthday, Ben. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Re MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > > It's the insurance company that will need to pay for the defense, not > MUM, and it's unlikely that the judgment would be so large that MUM > would have to cough up any money to pay it off, although they might > get cancelled by their current insurance carrier and have to pay > higher rates with somebody else because of their negligent mgmt. > **END** Bob, do you know who MUM's carrier is? Or what any details of their coverage might be? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Unusual laws
Yes, just joking around. In your last question you asked (rhetorically) what feste might surmise was the agenda of each of the "groups" and it just struck me as funny, because the under 30 group seemed kind of fun in the limited examples of behavior you offered as exemplars. I also enjoyed Judy's double take on the anal-anal sex typo. Marek ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, foufou_fl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > Not so sure about the other groups (below) but I think I'd like a > > little more information on the women-under-thirty agenda. > > I am not sure what "agenda" means in this context. Perhaps its a joke > -- saying you want in on some of that. > > My point was that its my conversations and feedback from younger > women, and from some surveys and articles, etc., those generally > under 30 -- its not a hard and fast demarcation -- like sex in a wide > variety of forms, and anal ranks near the top. > > I was sort of making a joke about Feste not even thinking about dating > women under 30 (funny on several levels perhaps) -- since he appears > disgusted with the thought of anal or oral sex -- even with an > attractive 25 year old woman, I am guessing. > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, foufou_fl wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > > But if I find > > > > myself thinking about what they do, I find it disgusting. > > > > > > Not having had hmosexual relations,I am kind of ignorant of them. With > > > your expertise and possible experience, can you outline what the acts > > > are that are particularly disgusting -- and if you find the hetro > > > counterpart disgusting too. Particularly between older, fat and ugly > > > people. > > > > > > 1) Oral sex. Do you find a woman giving a man head to be disgusting? > > > > > > 2) Anal sex, Do you a man and woman haveing anal anal sex to be > > > disgusting? Better not even think about dating women under 30. > > > > > > 3) Anal stimulation. Do you find that a woman who stimulates a mans > > > prostate by sliding a finger or object into a mans anus during sex is > > > disgusting? Again, better not even think about dating women under 30. > > > > > > 4) Do you find 69 sex between a man and a woman disgusting? > > > > > > Do you find the image of an 80 year old man and woman having sex > > > disgusting? > > > > > > > > > Do you find the image of an obese man and woman having sex > disgusting? > > > > > > Are all or any of the above on the road to hell? > > > > > > Whats the agenda of each of the above groups? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Unusual laws
Not so sure about the other groups (below) but I think I'd like a little more information on the women-under-thirty agenda. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, foufou_fl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > But if I find > > myself thinking about what they do, I find it disgusting. > > Not having had hmosexual relations,I am kind of ignorant of them. With > your expertise and possible experience, can you outline what the acts > are that are particularly disgusting -- and if you find the hetro > counterpart disgusting too. Particularly between older, fat and ugly > people. > > 1) Oral sex. Do you find a woman giving a man head to be disgusting? > > 2) Anal sex, Do you a man and woman haveing anal anal sex to be > disgusting? Better not even think about dating women under 30. > > 3) Anal stimulation. Do you find that a woman who stimulates a mans > prostate by sliding a finger or object into a mans anus during sex is > disgusting? Again, better not even think about dating women under 30. > > 4) Do you find 69 sex between a man and a woman disgusting? > > Do you find the image of an 80 year old man and woman having sex > disgusting? > > > Do you find the image of an obese man and woman having sex disgusting? > > Are all or any of the above on the road to hell? > > Whats the agenda of each of the above groups? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
An excellent (most recent) post and a very productive dialogue. Thanks. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > I think from that perspective, you would feel that everything that > > > happened could not have happened otherwise, that all > > > your 'mistakes' > > > in thinking and feeling were no mistakes at all, but were just all > > > part of the path to where you are now. How could you then have felt > > > sorry about anything, when there was nothing to achieve? > > > > > I just wanted to say that this is a perceptive > > comment. Thanks. > > > > Pondering it, I really don't think that what I'm > > doing is "complaining" about any teachings that > > led me personally "astray," as I am trying to > > pinpoint spiritual teachings that, IMO, lead almost > > *everyone* astray. > > From my POV there is no 'leading astray'.These views exist or rather > attract people, because they appeal to them (their ego). If there > wouldn't be any resonance then they wouldn't be known at all. If there > is a lost of resonance, they become big successes.As you have been > attracted to such teachings, your consciousness at that time was > simply strongly resonating with it, otherwise you would have been > attracted to some other teaching, as all these teachings are available. > > > In general, I think that those teachings and world > > views that attempt to convince the seeker that they > > know how the world works and exactly how the > > spiritual process unfolds are unproductive in > > the long run. For example, the phrasing "become > > enlightened." It's just a simple thing, a way of > > saying something. But it's Just Not True, as almost > > anyone who has had strong enlightenment experiences > > will attest to. > > To this I have a nice quote out of a book I just received two days ago > in the mail.It's by an indian saint of the 13th century with the name > Jnanadeva: "And distinction such as, one liberated, one having desire > to get liberated and the one remaining in bondage according to their > spiritual development remains so long as the flavour of the nectar of > experience is not tasted by them." (Amritabubhava, X.25) > > (There is a distinction implied here between the just liberated state > and the state of Paramapada or Amritkala, to the later refers the term > 'nectar of experience'). If you ponder about the meaning, you'll > realize, that this distinction, that you find so unwholesome, is > inevitable in the state of ignorance. > > > How can one "become" that which one > > has always been? As such, I don't think this par- > > ticular phrasing and way of presenting enlighten- > > ment is terribly *productive*. I much prefer the > > way that things are phrased and expressed in the > > Advaitan/Papaji tradition, as if one simply > > realizes what has always been present. When that > > happens, there is no set of teachings or buzz- > > phrases about "becoming" running around in one's > > mind that one has to discard. > > It's not my mission here to defend Maharishi. I had similar thoughts > when I came across the Papaji teachings. I thought: 'Why wasn't I told > this right away?' But behind this question is another one: Why did I > waste time? Why couldn't I have *achieved* it before? And now you see > how you lead your own argument ad absurdum, in calling this teaching > (MMY's) *unproductive*. It implies, that you still believe, somewhere > deep down, that enligtenment is produced by a set of teachings and > instructions, and that you just have to give somebody the right set of > instructions, and viola, he will achieve. > > Now, interestingly enough, I heard from Maharishi himself, all these > things you are pointing out, that there is no way of *achieving* > Brahman, that progress is just a march in an illusiory desert, as he > phrased it. This was a real relevation to me. When I pointed this > perspective out to my fellow listeners, they just didn't seem to have > heard it! Or didn't attribute anything of value to it. Maharishi also > had said, that all knowledge, that is all systematizing of states of > consciousness had to be forgotten, before one could actually *achieve* > them. He alluded to his own tactics as sort of an imprint in memory, > which had to be forgotten, but which could be drawn upon later on, > when the thing was happening. Then there would be that faint memory > somewhere, which could clarify a particular situation. (suppose in a > transition from CC to UC). > > Now, if this tactics is terribly productive, I don't know, I just know > that this particular body/mind organism called Maharishi was drawn to > it, that is that the supreme Brahman wanted him to do so, and that I > in turn, at that time was drawn to this particular body-mind named > Maharshi, which equally was just corresponding to my
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Legal: Cease and desist Letter?
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > **SNIP** > How compulsory is a subpoena? Do you get arrested if you ignore it, or does > it just weaken your case? Last time MMY was in the U.S., he was subpoenaed, > and he didn't respond. > **END** A subpoena is a court order and (technically) failure to respond to one is considered contempt of the court and the person is subject to sanctions, which generally means throwing them in jail for a few days. However, courts rarely sanction someone the first go around, or even the second or more depending on the subpoened person's importance to the case of the party who is doing the subpoena-ing and the crankiness of the court in general. It wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on the case except get the judge pissed at you (and your side) and therefore create an unfavorable dynamic, but (again, depending on the complexity of the case and the importance of the non-responding subpoened witness) the court might impose evidentiary sanctions on the other side, not allowing them to present certain other opposing witnesses or affirmative defenses, etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Great, thanks, I'll be more careful to stay out of the crossfire in the future. Marek ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > I'm confused by your question (below). I merely made a statement > > that I enjoyed the term "wrongaroonie" and looked forward to the > > time I might be able to employ it myself. > > Oh, OK, I thought you were being sarcastic. > I'm glad you liked it. I just don't think of > it as anything out of the ordinary, I guess, > perhaps because I use it a lot! > > > Also I find it puzzling that Turquoise B. thought that the same > > compliment was somehow a statement re my absolute knowledge of right > > and wrong. > > He (correctly) interpreted your comment as > positive, and anything positive said about > me is reason for Barry to put down the person > saying it. > > > Perhaps you and he operate on some different wavelength of > > communication than myself. > > You could say that. ;-) > > Nevertheless, I still like the term and > > appreciate your use of it. No more, no less. > > > > Marek > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I just have to say that "wrongaroonie" is one of the best > comebacks > > > > I've heard in a long time. I'll be using it from now on. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > What confused you about it? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Okay, thanks. Yes, I thought it cute. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > I'm confused by your question (below). I merely made a statement > > that I enjoyed the term "wrongaroonie" and looked forward to the > > time I might be able to employ it myself. > > > > Also I find it puzzling that Turquoise B. thought that the same > > compliment was somehow a statement re my absolute knowledge of > > right and wrong. > > I apologize. I was making a joke and shouldn't have > included you in it. > > It's a cute term, which is what I now assume you > meant. I was just trying to make a comment about > those who feel *they* know what is "wrong" in the > world of beliefs, even if they call it "wrongaroonie." > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
I'm confused by your question (below). I merely made a statement that I enjoyed the term "wrongaroonie" and looked forward to the time I might be able to employ it myself. Also I find it puzzling that Turquoise B. thought that the same compliment was somehow a statement re my absolute knowledge of right and wrong. Perhaps you and he operate on some different wavelength of communication than myself. Nevertheless, I still like the term and appreciate your use of it. No more, no less. Marek --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > I just have to say that "wrongaroonie" is one of the best comebacks > > I've heard in a long time. I'll be using it from now on. > > > > Thanks. > > What confused you about it? > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > But, within the description of enlightenment that > MMYpresents, > > > how > > > > > could an enlightened person behave differently than following > > > > > his/her > > > > > inner intuition? Perhaps that inner intuition says to follow > the > > > law > > > > > without question, or perhaps it doesn't, but in either case, > the > > > > > enlightened person has no CHOICE but to do what they are > doing... > > > > > > > > Bingo. You have just nailed the fatal flaw in > > > > Maharishi's model. To believe it is true, you > > > > have to believe that before enlightenment, one > > > > has free will, and that afterwards one does not. > > > > > > Oh, good grief. Wrongaroonie. > > > > > > Didn't you say you used to be a TM teacher? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > Or, to put this in the framework of some people's enlightenment type experiences, sure > you chop wood and carry water both before and after the Big E. The only difference is that > after the Big E comes the knowledge that everything is happening by itself, on autopilot > and in that case 2. no one "does" anything "wrong" since it all happens anyway and > choice is a total illusion. Therefore (and this BIG) 3. the Enlightened make the same > "mistakes" and "right actions" as the unenlightened. Why would their behavior improve if > you use this model? And...4 The Enlightened know that "they" don't make mistakes, while > the rest of us not yet enlightened blame ourselves as we wrangle over doing the moral > thing. > Maybe it is a question of how much sattva is there in the nervous system of any person, > Enlightened or not? Of course, this means that MMY is not making any mistakes either - > no matter how unkind or greedy the actions are - whew this is crazymaking stuff. > The upshot is that for the unenlightened, we just keep on trying, even if it is an illusion > that we have control. And part of that illusion is that it usually feels better to be around > nice, funny people, honest people, kind people. There are enlightened rascals and > unenlightened saints. I think the perfection that we are all looking for, living in a human > nervous system, is way beyond enlightenement -I don't know what name you call it. Maybe > it only manifests in Sat Yuga. But for here and now, we just have to keep it simple. I think > the TMO hurts people and is dishonest while the technique is a good one. I would advise > anyone to stay away from involvement with the TMO where money or lifeplans are > involved. > **SNIP TO END** Well put. If it feels like you have free will then you also feel like you're acting accordingly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
I just have to say that "wrongaroonie" is one of the best comebacks I've heard in a long time. I'll be using it from now on. Thanks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > But, within the description of enlightenment that MMYpresents, > how > > > could an enlightened person behave differently than following > > > his/her > > > inner intuition? Perhaps that inner intuition says to follow the > law > > > without question, or perhaps it doesn't, but in either case, the > > > enlightened person has no CHOICE but to do what they are doing... > > > > Bingo. You have just nailed the fatal flaw in > > Maharishi's model. To believe it is true, you > > have to believe that before enlightenment, one > > has free will, and that afterwards one does not. > > Oh, good grief. Wrongaroonie. > > Didn't you say you used to be a TM teacher? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Personally, I tend to think that enlightenment confers inner > contentment complete with a sense of wonder, sense of purpose and > more. But on the strength of what I can gather, I am unconvinced that > it necessarilly removes the possibility of the enlightened one living > his/her enlightenment blissfully ignorant about a great many things, > about, ignorant about the truth of the planet's history or the story > of creation, ignorant whether this or that storybook figure actually > existed or not. Perhaps, and this is dangerous territory perhaps, but > just perhaps, enlightenment is no more but no less than living a > wonderfully drugless high, and does not necessarilly confer any > higher perceptions beyond those which that individual personality can > rise to. > **SNIP TO END** Your conclusion seems sound to me. But as to what constitues "higher" or "lower" perceptions, who's to say? If, for example, on any particular psychedelic drug I have the experience of a red swirling flower -- what is "unreal" about that experience, even though no one else experiences it? I "know" what red is, what a flower is, and what a swirling motion is. And it's all being presented to whomever all the other experiences of my life are presented to and with the same, or even greater, sense of reality. Should I, could I, doubt that just because I am (apparently) the only one having the specific experience of those characteristics all together at the same time? Maybe that hallucination provides some profound insight that puts the rest of my life into clearer or more cogent focus. Or maybe it merely exposes how malleable experience is itself, and in doing so, throws the attention back on who it is that's paying attention in the first place. Perhaps spiritual experiences or insight and subtle/celestial vision function similarly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > I believe by advocating and living by the Shastras that Guru Dev > believed he was serving the best good to those he taught. I believe > too that MMY believed he served the best interest of westerners when > he de-Hinduised the teaching of meditation. But I don't believe > either of them were above believing as fact what many would consider > fiction. And this I find particularly curious, that enlightenment can > apparently occur without necessarilly disabusing an indivual of the > sometimes fictional content of inherited wisdom. **SNIP TO END** Perhaps all "inherited wisdom" has some degree of fictional content but that doesn't mean that the "explanation" that it provides doesn't make rational sense to those to whom it is inherited. Scientific theories, which for the time and place that they are accepted explain reality (or the reality being explained) to an acceptable level until such time as a better or more comprehensive explanation supersedes. Newtonian physics still explains gravity on the local level that it is experienced everyday but it is inapplicable on the quantum level, even fictional. On some level of the 19th-early 20th century mind of an Indian monk the above information re cows not only made sense but explained something about life as he lived it; maybe explained it in a very profound fashion. Perhaps metaphor and analogy are more closely related to reality than we imagine, inasmuch as reality is only found in the mind to begin with. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Thank you, I see it entirely differently now. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > > > > Preach on, Brother. I agree with everything said below. And do feel > > like much of FFL has been hijacked and taken to an entirely different > > tone and tenor from what it used to be. > ... > And this latter group are responsible for over half > > the entire postings. > > Compared to two years ago, there are now 2-10 times the number posts, > compared on monthly basis, than then. So half of the new postings are > to your liking. Lets assume you enjoyed 100% of posts two years ago > (hard to believe). So you now have 1-5 times as many "good" posts, in > your view. So your gripe and grief has nothing to do with the quantity > of good posts, but apparently that you now have to schroll a bit > more. Poor Baby! :) You could simple choose e-mail subscriptions and > use filters for your undesirables -- though you may miss a lot. > > > > There are several people > > whose posts I consistently open because I know that there will be > > something of value in what they write. Conversely, there are a > > half-a-dozen or maybe a little more, whose posts I almost always > > skip because they are consistently carping on someone else's post > > (from the same half dozen). > > One person's carping is anothers "insightful critique". I believe the > FFL population contains a wider range of views and backgrounds > compared to two years ago. This is a good thing, IMO. A wider range of > views will naturally bring out a wider range of critiques. Again, > this is a good thing, IMO. > > A good critic of the facts, sourcing, logic or style of any post can > be excellent feedback -- to the poster and indirectly for all > readers. It can, and does, IMO, raise the averall quality of posts in > the longrun. > > A more diverse group and set of posts will also bring out a wider > range of styles of criticism (criticism as in "film, food, literature > or design 'criticism'". Over the years, some are more refined, some > cruder. Though "crude" to some may be simply a missing of context. If > you read thread selectively, and suddenly read an (intended) satire of > a prior post, you may think it is totally bizzarre, out of placeB and > rude. But that may be your "lack" -- you don't get the references and > allusions. It may be a quite insightful critique of a prior post -- > but due to your limited vision and reading, it appears "crude". > > Also, if you "peg" aka sterotype someone as "crude" often it will > become a self-fulfilling prophecy. You will find "evidence" of > crudeness everywhere. But if read from a "fresh-field", you may find > humor and/or reasonable criticism. > > > Bummer. > > Bummerness is structured in consciousness. > > So I can't sympathize with your plight too much. You have as many, > perhaps many times more "quality" posts now, compared to the past, and > your missing of seeing quality in "bad" posters may be due to your > own shortcomings. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime
Preach on, Brother. I agree with everything said below. And do feel like much of FFL has been hijacked and taken to an entirely different tone and tenor from what it used to be. There are several people whose posts I consistently open because I know that there will be something of value in what they write. Conversely, there are a half-a-dozen or maybe a little more, whose posts I almost always skip because they are consistently carping on someone else's post (from the same half dozen). And this latter group are responsible for over half the entire postings. Bummer. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 1/31/06 8:16 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Nicely put, Michael. It seems to me that much of FFL is a different place > > than it was a few > > years ago. There are wonderful discussions, good laughs, and such knowledgable > > people > > here. But I skip many of the posts these days because they are so hostile - > > from a subset > > of people looking to engage each other by jumping on a word's implied meaning, > > an > > assumed criticism, the personality or character of someone they've never met, > > on and on. > > I'm not sure why they are here on FFL at all. Why not email each other on the > > side or > > better yet, just call each other on the phone and work out these "issues" and > > conflicts > > between each other, rather than taking up space on FFL? The tone of this kind > > of stuff is > > "off," unpleasant, and it feels as if a portion of FFL has been hijacked. > > I agree. I don't get this "hostility on the Internet" thing. Would the > people who behave this way here do so face to face? Maybe, if they had been > married 10 years and it wasn't working out, but otherwise, I'll bet they're > a lot more cordial in "real life" than they are on the Net, or at least I > hope so. Amma always says that anger is like a knife without a handle that's > sharp on both ends - it injures the attacker as much as the person being > attacked. I know that when I spew negativity on someone, I feel polluted > afterwards. And upon reflection, I realize that I'm just lashing out against > my own flaws, mirrored back to me by the person I'm attacking. Can a sincere > spiritual aspirant habitually indulge in negative behavior? Wouldn't their > spiritual progress be facilitated by examining why they tend to do that and > rooting out that tendency? Wouldn't they and all they influence feel better > if they did so? People are always going to do things which potentially could > invoke our anger or negativity. Seems to me that we use take those > situations as an opportunity for our own growth by exercising restraint and > judgment and sublimating the tendency to respond in kind. In a word, > forgiveness. Maybe our doing so will facilitate their growth as well, by > setting an example or causing them to reflect on their own behavior rather > than reinforcing their destructive habit. > > Just some thoughts. Sorry if I'm sounding preachy. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TMO trained pandits?
Not sure if someone has posted this site before. The following quote was taken from a website ( http://www.jyotish-yagya.com/ ) on its "staff" page. Seems likely that these are TMO-trained pandits, and if so, are remnants of a now discontinued program. *** "This image was taken in early 2005 in front of the new Homa site with its traditional thatched roof. These dedicated gentlemen are highly trained Brahmins, able to maintain focus on a mantra all day long. Most of them were trained in groups by a prominent meditation movement which finally reached 10,000 starting from the age of 5 years old. In 1991, the yagya program which employed these men faltered and most of them were sent home. They had been taught to chant mantras but not to administer their own temples. Applicants to the Vedic Life Foundation staff of Brahmins are reviewed by a board of senior pandits. New pandits currently being hired are solely from this elite group of meditation practicing Brahmins trained in the 80's. Peer review maintains an extremely high level of competence in the Temple." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] MOU Vedic/Hindu Celebration Animations
You can see new animations for selected celebration days in January and February (2006) at http://calendars.globalgoodnews.com/vedic/01.html for January and com/vedic/02.html for February. You can't download animations for any of the other months yet. Presuming that these animations are designed wholly in accordance with Maharishi's specifications or inspired by his suggestions in large part -- most certainly approved by him at the very least -- they're an interesting insight into his cosmoslogy. The January 12 celebration day has some nice snippets from the film of Guru Dev. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron's Birthday
Happy Birthday, Ron. The site ain't the same without you. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Today is Ron Fried¹s Birthday. He once held the title of most frequent > poster on FFL. He still lurks here. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: phase transition maps and Gurus
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:10 PM, qntmpkt wrote: > > > > > being part of > > > the Saivite Tradition of Shankara > > > > It would appear Shankara was a Vaishnav. > > Being said to be an incarnation of Shiva -- that would be "interesting". > > He was a bit special (deva like). Did all his commentaries and all by > 16, when his incarnation was supposed to have been up. But was > granted an additional 16 years to travel India to set up the maths and > all. Drop the mortal coil at 32. > **SNIP TO END** Most of the reading and research I've done does seem to point to Adi Sankaracharya as being a devotee of Narasimha, Vishnu's incarnation as the ManLion who rescued his devotee, Prahlad, from his demon father, Hiranyakashipu. All worship is only Consiousness worshipping Consciousness. The puranas articulate this by the stories of any particular manifestation of God worshipping another manifestation of God as Lord. Shiva is considered the highest devotee of Krishna (indeed, Hanuman, who is the epitome of devotion is the "secret" form of Shiva); Rama fashions a lingam on the sands of south India to worship Shiva before conquering Sri Lanka (the present of the Rameshavaram temple that Maharishi visited after he left Uttar Kashi); all the Gods invoke and worship their Shakti as Ma Durga to "save" them from the demon Mahishasura; etc. It's all a round robin of worship of Self. Similarly, in the offering of ararti, or camphor flame, to the divinity the symbolism is that the individual flame of consciousness is offering itself to the universal light of consiousness of which it is just an expression. Using camphor as the fuel is symbolic of the ego which, offering itself to God, is completely extinguished with no ash left behind because it wasn't real to begin with. I guess you could extend the metaphor as regards the carbon soot to leshyavidya, or the remains of ignorance. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rudraksha Mala Beads
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bdadvaitin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > These beads were made for wearing and that's just what > they'll do... > One of these days these beads are gonna bliss you right > on through > > Hope so. I am looking to purchase a strand, probably online. > Can anyone recommend a site that offers quality beads. > Have heard there are a lot of fake ones abound. > **END** http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice for Carrying the View
Comment right here at the top: Vaj, thank you for this post (below), and without trying to belabor the point I would just comment that, based on my reading of Nisargadatta, there is nothing in the following that I feel he would disagree with (leaving aside the specific stuff re mandalas and more Buddhist-specific practices), and most particularly the explanation of the "pure" or "original mind" as I understand it from reading below. He says that the abidance in the sense of "I Am-ness" will itself reveal the original (and eternal, so to speak) state that has always been even before that sense of "I Am". Again, I'm not trying to push a Nisargadatta agenda, but only to piggyback on some of the earlier discussion vis-a-vis "new advaitins". Marek *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Advice for Carrying the View > > by His Holiness Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche > > > The everyday practice is simply to develop a complete acceptance and > openness to all situations and emotions, and to all people, > experiencing everything totally without mental reservations and > blockages, so that one never withdraws or centralizes into oneself. > > This produces a tremendous energy that is usually locked up in the > process of mental evasion and a general running away from life > experiences. > > Clarity of awareness may, in its initial stages, be unpleasant or > fear inspiring. If so, then one should open oneself completely to the > pain or the fear and welcome it. In this way the barriers created by > one's own habitual emotional reactions and prejudices are broken down. > > When performing the meditation practice one should develop the > feeling of opening oneself completely to the whole universe with > absolute simplicity and nakedness of mind, ridding oneself of all > protecting barriers. Don't mentally split into two when meditating, > one part of the mind watching the other like a cat watching a mouse. > > One should realize that one does not meditate to go deeply into > oneself and withdraw from the world. In buddhist yoga, even when > meditating on chakras there is no introspection concentration. > Complete openness of mind is the essential point. > > The ground of samsara and nirvana is the alaya, the beginning and the > end of confusion and realization, the nature of universal shunyata > and of all apparent phenomena. It is even more fundamental than the > trikaya and is free from bias toward enlightenment. It is sometimes > called the "pure" or "original" mind. > > Although prajna (wisdom) sees in it no basis for such concepts as > different aspects, the fundamental aspects of complete openness, > natural perfection, and absolute spontaneity are distinguished by > upaya (skillful means) as useful devices. > > All aspects of every phenomenon are completely clear and lucid. The > whole universe is open and unobstructed, everything mutually > interpenetrating. Seeing all things nakedly, clear and free from > obscurations, there is nothing to attain or realize. The nature of > things naturally appears and is naturally present in time- > transcending awareness; this is complete openness. > > Everything is perfect just as it is, completely pure and undefiled. > All phenomena naturally appear in their uniquely correct modes and > situations, forming ever-changing patterns full of meaning and > significance, like participants in a great dance. Everything is a > symbol, yet there is no difference between the symbol and the truth > symbolized. With no effort of practice whatsoever, liberation, > enlightenment, and buddhahood are already fully developed and > perfected. This is natural perfection. > > The everyday practice is just ordinary life itself. Since the > underdeveloped state does not exist there is no need to behave in any > special way or try to attain or practice anything. There should be no > feeling of striving to reach some exalted goal or higher state; this > simply produces something conditional or artificial that will act as > an obstruction to the free flow of the mind. One should never think > of oneself as "sinful" or worthless, but as naturally pure and > perfect, lacking nothing. > > When performing meditation practice one should think of it as just a > natural function of everyday living, like eating or breathing, not as > a special, formal event to be undertaken with great seriousness and > solemnity. One must realize that to meditate is to pass beyond > effort, beyond practice, beyond aims and goals, and beyond the > dualism of bondage and liberation. > > Meditation is always perfect, so there is no need to correct > anything. Since everything that arises is simply the play of the > mind, there are no "bad" meditation sessions and no need to judge > thoughts as good or evil. Therefore, one should not sit down to > meditate with various hopes or fears
[FairfieldLife] Re: The New Advaitins
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > re: previous post asking about the new Advaitins and if there's > anything negative that can be said about them. I call them Neo- > Advaitins. > Most are non-progressivists in the traditions of Ramana Maharshi and > Nisargadatta Maharaj. HWL Poonja, a disciple of RM, has spawned a > sizeable brood of these creatures. There are numerous links to other > Neo-Advaitins such as Gangaji, Ramesh Balsekar, etc. > HWL Poonja's message is that you should give up all techniques and > just "BE"! As you might expect, he doesn't approve of TM, since TM is > accompanied by a progressivist orientation (which I agree with); > which arises in the context of talking about the physiological > counterpart to Enlightenment. That is, culturing the nervous system > is the physical "unstressing" counterpart to linear evolution. Year > 1,2,3...of practicing TM brings on a greater accumulation of benefits > of a progressive nature: more global awareness, less stress, etc; > and, although it's quite possible for somebody to become Enlightened > immediately in the presence of somebody like Ramana Maharshi (as HWL > Poonja was apparently, according to his own testimony), it's > statistically unlikely. > An alternative explanation for the anti-technique viewpoints of the > Neo-Advaitins is simply that they are total dunces when it comes to > the technology of evolution . > Two questions are important here: (at least) > 1. What is the result of following such a Guru (as any of the Neo- > Advaitins). Do they turn you on spiritually speaking? If so, how and > what are some concrete results. > 2. Are there factual errors in their statements? > 3. Does the worldview of reality presented by such persons as Ramesh > Balsekar mesh with your own conceptions/observations on reality? > > I recommend that you read "The Euphoric Nihilism of Ramesh Balsekar" - > by Chris Parish, and editor at "What is enlightenment" Magazine. > You can find it at > http://www.tinyurl.com/74qbj > Other article on Ramesh Balsekar (a typical Neo-Advaitin) may be > found at > http://www.tinyurl.com/a22qt and > http://www.tinyurl.com/au8kv > This should give you an idea of what the Neo-Advaitins are all > about!... > **END** Thanks for the recommendations. I am not personally interested in other gurus or teachings per se; or to the small extent I am, certainly not enough (at least at this time) to follow through on a comparative study of lineages and heretical and semi-heretical offshoots of same. What I was relating was my own feelings regarding what I'd learn from stumbling across Nisargadatta, whose teachings I find both resonant with and wholly in concordance with what I'd understood from Maharishi's earlier teachings when his emphasis was on self-realization through meditation and transcendence. One's path, even within an established lineage, is one's own and for those of us in the west with our mutts' dharma the trajectory of our search can appear pretty erratic. That's certainly been my experience. However, I'm always reminded of something I remember Maharishi saying, I believe at Humboldt in '71, that if one's intention is to go to Boston, then even if one doesn't know where Boston is and even if one heads off in the opposite direction, nevertheless one is completely on the path to Boston. The intention rules. Even more so with the "path" to the Self, yes? As regards the tricks and manipulations of the ego, as Vaj has made the cautionary note, you can only be earnest in your intention and deal with all the pitfalls that come your way as they happen or as you become aware of them beforehand and take steps to avoid them. We're all just doing the best we can by the light we're given and to the degree that it illuminates our actions and provides for insight. This forum has provided a lot of light and a lot of insight. I've certainly appreciated most everyone's comments and posts. Thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2006, at 9:10 PM, Marek Reavis wrote: > > > If Nisargadatta was speaking "generally" in those talks, withholding > > the "real methods" of realization then it would seem to me that he was > > a profound liar, inasmuch as the directness, simplicity and lucidity > > of what he says in those talks is so completely at odds with > > esotericism. > > Not necessarily. He may have felt there were few who were ready for > his teaching and therefore only taught what he taught to the masses. > It doesn't make what he shared a lie by any means. Christ is quoted > in one of the Gospels as saying he only talked in parables and > stories to the masses; his inner teaching was preserved for his > closer students. > > IIRC Ramana was an adept of Ma Kali, but he did not teach those > methods that I've ever heard. So it's interesting to me that > Nisargadatta was taught my a Nath but never taught anything from that > tradition. > > It's interesting to see how this new advaita thing is spreading. > **END** Could you be more specific as to what you mean by the "new advaita thing"? It sounds as if you're implying something negative but I don't know enough to comment. Perhaps you are better informed than I, but it is my understanding that Ramana Maharishi was devoted to Shiva, in particular the holy Mount Arunchala, sacred to Shiva, that he considered his guru. Ramakrishna, however, was a devotee of Ma Kali and was a priest at the Kali temple in Calcutta. Maybe you have the two confused? If you read Nisargadatta it appears that he clearly believed he was teaching out of the Nath tradition, specifically what he had learned from his guru. However, from what I've read, his guru, Siddharameshwar, taught an understanding of the Nath tradition that may be at variance with others. Again, I do not have the expertise to comment more completely. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Conversation continued at bottom: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Marek, > > I've been "away" for a bit and not following the action here. Nice post. Certainly gives a > new take on Nisargadatta. > > Where did you learn these things about his guru, his practice, his teachings? > > L B S **SNIP TO END** Hey LB, Me, too. "Away" I mean. I've been following the posts but more spotty than in the past and haven't posted much myself except here and there. You know, I can't tell you exactly where I read that stuff about Nisargadatta and Siddharameshwar, his teacher, but probably just googling around and about and stuff falls in the hopper and shakes out later on. If I remember correctly I think some of it is on some site that talks about Somerset Maugham (sp?) and The Razor's Edge and the "real" Larry Darrow. Apparently Maugham's model for the guru, Sri Ganapati, in The Razor's Edge was Ramana Maharishi. Plus, he (Maugham) also visited Siddharameshwar, too. If you find that site there are a number of links that branch out to all sorts of different places and there is the information about the "bird's way" and the "ant's way" as well as the "monkey's way" that Siddharameshwar spoke about and a fourth way, too, whose name I've forgotten. The extended metaphor is that the "ant's way" requires a long and arduous journey to the fruit which remains out of site until just before it's attained. The "bird's way", as was said earlier, is where the fruit is seen and attained directly. "Monkey's way" is kind of the in-between way where the fruit is seen and there's some jumping and grabbing and swinging from branch-to-branch till it's reached. The fourth way is when "nothing" is done and the fruit just falls from the tree right where you happen to be. Boink. Anandamayi and Ramana Maharishi are perfect examples of this fourth "way". It's the easiest and most difficult way of all. You just gotta be at the right place at the right time. Anyway, no one I've ever read or heard has ever spoken more clearly to me than Nisargadatta. Totally cleared things up. A good friend of mine refers to him as the proletariat guru. No heirarchies or fancy-shmancy stuff there. Very refreshing. But I'm still a sucker for Guru Dev. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > > Apparently Nisargadatta's method of the abidance in the "I Am" *was* > > what his guru taught. > > Or he spoke very generally to his students and withheld the actual > methods leading to the "abidance in the "I Am"". Of course the danger > of such a simple instruction is the ego can intervene in a million > ways if you haven't done what is necessary to reside in that state of > presence or if the guru never transmitted the state and qualified > your View. This is essential IMO, otherwise you so easily get "Neo- > or Pseudo-advaita" and satsang culture. > **SNIP TO END** I can't profess to being an expert in Nisargadatta, though I have read many of "his" books, including "I Am That", that are just translations/transcriptions of question and answer sessions (satsangs) with him. If Nisargadatta was speaking "generally" in those talks, withholding the "real methods" of realization then it would seem to me that he was a profound liar, inasmuch as the directness, simplicity and lucidity of what he says in those talks is so completely at odds with esotericism. He specifically says, over and over again, that the simple abidance in the "I Am-ness" -- that sense of presence and being that we each and all know doubtlessly to be -- is all that is necessary for realization. And he says categorically, without any qualification whatsoever, that it is his entire teaching. And, of course, it (atma-vichara) is the core teaching or Ramana Maharishi, too. Perhaps you are correct that the ego can make mischief a million times over with such simple instruction; certainly many (or even most) of his questioners seem to have no clue as to what to do with what he says. However, for myself as a long-term meditator (albeit with a hefty hiatus of 10-12 years while I plumbed some of the depths of the world), I have found that the practice of this atma-vichara provides profound bliss and experientially clarifies what I had only "understood" before. Furthermore, I find over and over again in his talks confirmation of what I had learned from Maharishi in the earlier days of the movement, and confirmation of the truth of vedanta. To know that the Self is really the Self and nothing else; not some place or thing to reach. And to find that all this time in meditation all I was doing was steeping in It and not realizing It is laughable and delightful at the same time. Simple though it may be, it is a profound teaching and I've made it a part of my program. I couldn't recommend it more highly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Comment below:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marek Reavis wrote:
>
> > As Nisargadatta says,
> > it's your earnestness that is key.
>
> Did Nisargadatta ever teach the methods he learned from his Nath guru
> (that got him enlightened) to his students?
>
Apparently Nisargadatta's method of the abidance in the "I Am" *was*
what his guru taught. It was what he termed the "bird's way" to
enlightenment, because the mind alights upon the fruit of realization
directly, as opposed to the way he ("he" being Siddharameshwar,
Nisargadatta's guru) became realized which he termed the "ant's way"
by which one travels progressively, bit-by-bit, to the goal.
However, Nisargadatta did impart a Nath mantra for those who asked for
it, and from what I've read it was somewhat long and he only spoke it
out to the devotee once so some folks were left somewhat nonplussed
when they didn't quite get the whole thing down in one take.
Besides daily guru puja Nisargadatta conducted five bhajans each day
because his guru had told him to do so and never released him from
that instruction before he died.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > >> Different cultures define "caring" in different ways. The TMO's > >> founder is Hindu, and charity work isn't always the top of the list > >> for Hindus, I guess due to the reincarnation/karma thing. > > > > Amma's a Hindu, and it's at the top of her list. Karunamayi is a > > Hindu. She > > too sets up hospitals, schools, etc. Gandhi was a Hindu. The list > > goes on. > > Even Swami Rama, who was involved in severe sexual manipulation of > his female students, created hospitals, ashrams and methods to take > his students to full enlightenment--well beyond mere mantra meditation. > **SNIP TO END** Just as a side comment on the phrase "mere mantra meditation" I've pasted a little bit from Nisargadatta following. That's not to say I don't agree with what I believe is the basic premise behind Vaj's use of that phrase which is to do whatever it is that draws "you" in your spiritual pursuit. You can trust yourself to do what's right for you. You can trust yourself to make mistakes, too. As Nisargadatta says, it's your earnestness that is key. ... "The atman per se is self-sufficient. But when it clings to the body, "treatments" such as mental and physical recreation or occupation are necessary; without these the atman cannot be tolerated by a person. For spiritual evolution, which is a requisite in the disengagement of the atman from body-identity, various disciplines have been recommended. Amongst these, the best is namasmarana -- recitation of a holy name of God. But here God means the indwelling principle within you -- the atman, which is given various names. These represent this "inner-God" who will respond no matter what names of other Gods you chant. . . . The keynote of recitation is to confine this "I-am-ness" within itself. The listener in you listens to the chantings and feels greatly pleased. The merging of beingness within itself is the very fount of bliss. If you want eternal peace, you can have it and be it through the absorbing devotional path -- the nama-japa or bhakti-yoga. In this country, for ages it has been accepted that a sacred name carries great spiritual potency if recited properly; it has no better substitute. . . . When you are initiated into a spiritual discipline with a sacred name, it means that it represents your "ultimate true nature." Be one with the sacred name completely, then it will give you all the mystic knowledge necessary for your spiritual elevation. It will awaken you into your "eternal awareness." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Question below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Dec 28, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > on 12/28/05 8:41 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual > >> forms of their devatas in their rooms. > >> > > Were they instructed to have them? > > That was unclear. They were all on puja altars. > **END** Vaj, were these visual forms the yantras or the anthropomorphic images? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Very well said. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: > > > > > How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of > > > people and changing their lives for the better? > > > > If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he > > were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have > > time to be the workaholic CEO type. > > Your syntax is a bit garbled here, but I think I know > what you're trying to say. > > I'll just point out the obvious, that spending all his > time as a workaholic CEO type is what has made possible > teaching TM around the world to millions (not just > thousands) of people. > > > I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of > > 9/11 by him? > > No, you don't wonder at all. > > There are many charitable organizations and individuals > that have given money to victims of the tsunami and 9/11 > (and Katrina, and many other worthy causes). > > The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's > an educational organization that exists to teach people > TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing > it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less > terrorism overall. So it doesn't make sense to expend > resources trying to deal with the problem on the level > of the problem instead of dealing with the root cause, > especially when so much charity is flowing from > organizations and individuals whose purpose it is to help > the victims directly. > > It's perfectly reasonable to think this is an absurd > belief, or even to criticize MMY for holding it, but > it's kinda silly to attack him for being stingy when > it *is* what he believes, and what he's devoted his > life to attempting to accomplish. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Observing Guru Dev's Birthday
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was present when Maharishi talked about the future in terms of > teachers leaving him. He described two signs to look for: > 1) Strong verbal "devotion" to Guru Dev. > 2) Starting to use other pictures of Guru Dev than the one he choose > for Puja. > > It's already happening. > > Like everything else Maharishi has said will happen, in due time. > **SNIP TO END** I think this deserves comment. If a person who has been in the TMO, particularly as an initiator, and feels devotion to Guru Dev it is precisely because Maharishi has introduced and fostered that devotion, first by his own manifest devotion to Guru Dev, and secondly by teaching many of us puja to Guru Dev. You can't regularly worship someone without feeling a certain way about them. At least that's been my experience. And, as re the picture thing, when I do puja to Guru Dev I'm doing puja to him and not to his picture (or a reproduction of a painting of his picture). I love all the pictures of Guru Dev, including that painting, but it's just a representation of the person who was Brahman incarnate. The image is not the person. The image just gives you a point of focus for That which is beyond all images. I don't want to tell you how to feel about what you heard Maharishi say, but I do feel that your point overlooks the simple and sincere devotion that many of us have for Guru Dev, and as LB pointed out, such devotion remains one of the biggest reasons for our continuing acknowledgement and appreciation of Maharishi's fundamental and lasting influence in our lives. Thanks to everyone for all your postings re Guru Dev. Jai Guru Dev Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category
Very well said, Rick. Thanks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **MAJOR SNIPPAGE** > Men of backbone don't spend their > time trying to destroy things that others value. > **SNIP TO END** Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Parashakti & Dead Mantras (was:TMO as a valid employer)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** (I wrote:) > > Peter (and anyone else), > > > > What's your take on the spectrum of possible positive/negative > effects > > of using for japa the big, public, > > everyone-has-heard-this-innumberable-times type mantras without > formal > > initiation? Mantras like the Gayatri or the Mahamrytunjaya, etc.? > > Understanding, of course, that one *could* receive initiation in > their > > use but that these are mantras that one might listen to already in > any > > number of different recordings. Already part of the chit. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Marek > > > > What a delicious question! Whatever the lineage of the mantra, it > appears that the most important determinant of a mantra's effect on > us is from which teacher it comes, specifically those consciously > integrated most comprehensively with the most powerful Beings in our > universe (e.g. Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma). > > Such mantra transmission from a teacher, who is integrated most > comprehensively with the most powerful Beings in our universe, will > be instilled with two qualities: First, the mantra selection itself > will be comprehensively supportive for the recipient. > > What I mean is that as the practice [of meditation on that mantra] > matures, the result of the experience will continue to be life > supporting and bountiful for the adherent. There is no danger of the > adherent finding their nervous system out-of-tune, or the mantra > losing its 'juice' over time. > > In addition, by finding our mantra through a teacher who is closely > and deeply aligned with a powerful universal being, we can be > assured that there are no limits placed on our spiritual evolution, > through use of that mantra. > > How do we know whether we have such a mantra? A simple test-- Time > will tell; if we are not pleased with some aspect of our mantra > meditation, we will stop. If, on the other hand, we find the mantra > meditation naturally complements our life, we'll continue... > > Thanks. > **SNIP TO END** Jim, no disaqreement with above, however the focus of my question concerned the use of mantras obtained "without" a teacher (but not mantras read out of a book). Mantras that are (more or less) part and parcel of one's everyday auditory experience; mantras that are available on CD recordings, cassette tape recordings, MP3 files on the internet, etc. You could make the case that the person who made the recording who is most aligned with the big folk of the universe would be the best, etc., but the point is that there is no "formal" transmission. There's just transmission. And again, I'm not talking about initiation or even deep meditation; I'm just talking about doing japa with a common, well-known mantra. It was suggested recently to me by an acquaintance that I might want to do some japa with the Mahamrytunjaya mantra. Known it for years through several different audio sources and CD recordings. No one "taught" it to me, I've just known it for a long while. It comes from the Rig Veda and has been considered one of the universal mantras and is obviously associated with one of the big folk. What's your (or anyone else's) take on the pluses or minuses of doing japa with same? Thanks. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru "empowered" mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. > Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that > need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. > > There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are > being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of > not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the > repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in > filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no > thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping > thought altogether, just willing it. > **SNIP TO END** Agreed. For a long-time TM-meditator, atma-vichara is amazingly effective. Once I read Nisargadatta and followed his simple advice regarding abiding wordlessly in the "I Am" -- one's own sense of presence (essentially the same as Ramana Maharshi's "who am I?", but subtly different and, for me, fundamentally so) -- it was extraordinary. To realize that Self *really* was Self. And that all these years I'd been steeping in it during meditation while looking for "it" or expecting "it" to "show up" like something else. I think Vaj has referred to this in earlier posts as "meditation without support" as opposed to mantra meditation in which the mantra ia, obviously, the support. This no-thought meditation is sweet, indeed. Samadhi on tap. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] I Am God (A good article re Bhagavad Gita)
= I am God: Autobiographical Fragments from the Bhagavad Gita = The Bhagavad Gita consists of seven hundred verses. Out of these, a massive 574 have been uttered by Krishna himself, giving us an unparalleled insight into the true nature of divinity. The title of the poem too suggests this, meaning the song (Gita) of God (Bhagavat). For example, at one point Krishna says: 'Amongst the great sages (maharishis) I am present as Bhrigu.' (10.25) Now this sage named Bhrigu has an interesting history. Once, in order to test Vishnu's greatness, he charged up to the latter's abode and found him resting (as usual), on the coils of a venomous snake, with his wife Lakshmi lovingly massaging his feet. Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/product/HE85/ Incensed that the Lord did not get up to welcome him, the saint mounted the serpent and planted a strong kick on Vishnu's chest. Bhrigu's temerity in doing so is however eclipsed by Vishnu's own reaction: He immediately got up and softly rubbed the aggressor's heels, saying: "O dear sir, my chest is hard and your legs soft. I hope I did not hurt you. I am blessed to have been so honored by your lotus feet whose imprint will always remain on my body." To this day, Vishnu carries on his chest this mark, known in popular parlance as the Shrivatsa. (Bhagavata Purana 10.89) It is well established that Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu; in fact, in many instances, they are indistinguishable. As for Bhrigu, he is venerated in ancient texts as a guru who exposes his disciples to torment and suffering, making them resilient and amenable to the inevitable ups and downs of life. Thus does God inspire us to maintain equanimity in the face of adversity, saying: "The calm man is completely composed in heat and cold, pleasure and pain, honor and dishonor." (6.7) "One who deals equally with friend and foe, who is free from attachment, he who takes praise and reproach alike, is silent and content with his lot (santushta), without a sense of ownership (for his house etc), and of a steady mind, such a devotee (bhaktiman) is dear to Me." (12.18-19) "He who regards a clod of earth, a stone and gold as being of equal worth, is wise and views censure and praise as alike.." (14.24) Why does Krishna have to subject himself to this apparent insult? To set an example, because: "Whatever the best one does, that others also do. Whatever standards he sets, the world follows. For me, in all the three worlds, there is nothing that I lack. Yet I am ever engaged in action (karma). For if I did not continue to work with alertness, humans would in every way follow my example. If I did not perform karma, these worlds would be ruined.." (3.21-24) Here it needs to be observed that in the above narrative, God is both the tormentor (Bhrigu) and the tormented (Vishnu). The God of Suffering Krishna's autobiographical intent is not restricted to a specific humiliating circumstance. His wish is to encompass the entire spectrum of human suffering: "Among the Rudras, I am Shankara." (10.23) Shankara is a synonym for Shiva, who is the God of destruction in the Hindu pantheon. Rudras are the class of deities responsible for making humanity grieve (rud: weep). Shankara is their leader and his name literally means one who grants welfare (sham). This verse is illustrative of the Hindu penchant for glorifying the enriching potential of suffering and indicates that adverse circumstances in life are as much a gift of God as are favorable ones. In fact, the philosophers of yore stated that it was only those who were his favorite did God thus bless, much like a mother who knows when it is best to shower her child with affection and when to yield the stick, both of which are necessary for the potential flowering of the infant's character. Only she knows when to apply which principle. She may distribute sweets equally to all children playing in a group; but will not chastise them in equal measure when they misbehave. Only her own beloved child has a right over her rod. Thus does Krishna also ensure our lasting welfare (Shankara), by exposing us to the rudras of life. Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/product/ZL95/ Significantly, Vishnu (Krishna) here identifies himself with Shiva. This seems a contradiction in terms since the former is credited with the creation of the world and the latter with its destruction (death). However, God clarifies matters: "I am immortality (amrita) as well as death (mrityu)." (9.19) "I am the all-depriving death and also the source of all future beings." (10.34) In Indian philosophy, death is not the opposite of life but its timely fulfillment. Destruction is not the end of creation, but the beginning of a fresh cycle. Later, Krishna identifies himself with another, slightly different instrument of destruction: "Of weapons I am the thunderbolt (vajra)." (10.28
[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India
Thank you, Jim. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Comment/Question below: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > **SNIP** > > Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on > > > youHa Ha > > > > > **SNIP TO END** > > > > Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your > > interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate? > > > > Thanks, > > Marek > > > Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. > > Other than that, I've always detested mood making, and just followed > the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my desire began to form > when I read in the Gita about God having a personal form, in order > for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily on Him. > > At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to Maharishi, but just > couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It always felt dry, > like trying to fall in love with someone and you just can't. > > But I sure was attracted to that picture of Brahmananda Saraswati- > his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I just really > admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true saint, who can live > in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being! > > And it just went from there. Probably driven more from a sense of > humility and desperation and surrender, than piety. > > I wrote a very few notes during that time: > > "January 22, 1993 > from communion > > Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, > > perfect body; to look upon any part of His form instantly leads the > mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using the sense of > sight. > > perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your perfect dad and best > friend. > > perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the lotus, looking > out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the universe." > > PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from memory. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India
Comment/Question below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on > youHa Ha > **SNIP TO END** Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate? Thanks, Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Emotional Healing'
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: **SNIP** > > Tom has arranged for a $50,000 legal retainer to sue > Ben the lier. If Ben posts a fully apologitic statement in which he > admits in every line that he, and not Tom was wrong and he apologizes > for wrongfully accusing Tom for it in an unambiguous, convincing, > non-finger pointing way, the suit will not be filed. Any hint that > he's being insincere and Tom will see Ben in Court. If Ben posts > anything to Fairfield life on any subject becept a convincing apology > and agreement that he is a flake, the lawsuit against Ben will be > filed and a few days later Ben will receive his subpoena. Tom doesn't > want to stiffle Ben's freedom of speach. But he doesn't want to read > the words of a lier who reprements himself as totally innocent of any > wrong doing. The lawyers will prove otherwise. Tom has more money > set aside for more prosecuition, counter suits and to fight malicious, > frivilous law suits against him. He's also got every email Ben ever > sent to him, notes of every phone conversation, every email he ever > sent to Ben or others about Ben. Some of it will curl your hair. > **SNIP TO END** Tom, $50k is quite a large retainer to sue a private individual for defamation and libel. And from what I've read of Ben's posts, and as a lawyer (albeit one who doesn't get $50k retainers), I don't see how you'd make a case. Your suit would likely be considered frivolous. Perhaps the people who have hurt you in your life did so because they were radiating the hurt and ignorance in their own. To whatever degree that is true, it certainly doesn't minimize or mitigate the pain and suffering that you have endured and continue to wrestle with. But the expansion of misery and suffering to others can't diminish or resolve your own. I'm sure you know that. Why not use your legal fund to establish some foundation or project that serves to alleviate suffering rather than increase it. If Ben is the scoundrel you know him to be, why not let him reap the consequences of his behavior without enmeshing you in it, too? If Nature is due to deliver Ben the consequences of his bad karma you don't have to volunteer to be the carrier of that karmic delivery. That's just a response to what you've written and, as you know from a previous post of mine, I do not share your opinion of Ben. But, then perhaps you know more of him than I. Or perhaps you're wrong in your evaluation of his character. I don't know all the details (not do I think it's necessary that I need to); but solely as a human being who cares about others and prefers to see the expansion of happiness rather than the converse, I'd ask you to consider this response to your posting as a sincere and candid reaction from your environment to what you are projecting into it. Thanks for taking the time to consider this. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Emotional Healing'
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > **SNIP** > > Imagine the day in the life of a cetain 5 year old boy. An only > child, so no siblings to confide in or get help from. > > The boy comes home from school. It's freezing cold, blizzard > conditions outside. The boy is as usual made to strip completely > outside before entering the house. The boy has mud on his pants, so > his mother's enraged. The boy is taken to the basement and placed in > one of the wash tubs to be bathed, as dirtying the upstairs and > especially the bathroom/bathtub is a no-no. While the boy is being > bathed, his mother yells and screams at him for getting mud on his > clothes (despite the fact that his clothes are stripped off him and > washed every time he arrives at the house). His mother goes into her > usual almost hourly tirade that the boy is no good, that he will get > nowhere in life, that no one loves him, that he'll never be loved, > have any friends or succeed in life. That God hates him and that > he'll be forever damned. She tries to drown him once again, but he > manages to free himself from her grasp before losing consciousness. > Enraged more, his mother takes the stick she uses to poke clothes into > dye or bleach in that sink and beats him with it. > > Eventually dad comes home and is enraged that his wife is angry at the > boy. He makes the boy kneel for hours, naked, in the closet of his > bedroom on coins which dig into his knees, to pray to God to become a > good boy, despite the fact that he is forever damned, that he is > useless, terrible, that he is not loved, will never be loved, will > never succeed, never have friends, will be shunned by all. > > Imagine that afternoon and early evening are repeated from the age of > 1 to 18 years old. Imagine that the fraternal uncle the boy begs help > from decides to fuck him up the ass, dry, at the age of 7, while the > boy pleads to his uncle for deliverance from these parents between the > strokes which tear apart his rectum. > > Imagine a child who spends most of his time shaking and trembling and > going to the police and neighbors begging for help but being shunned > and told to go away and to stop shaking and trembling like that. > > There's a possibility that someone having grown up under such > circumstances might have "issues". That the person might have > "problems with anger" and might not want to be characterized by the > resident psychologist of a forum related to TM and spiritual matters > to be damned forever because of his "character". Suppose while the > man who survived that has been through the therapy but TM and other > spiritual practices at times unearth some of the pain of the past. > Imagine that when TM causes some unstressing of the pain, the > utterances of pain the man writes into an occasional post are used > with glee by people on the spiritual path and even a pundit in > training to be something they can use to pounce upon the man and > denounce him and damn him forever in post after post. > > Emotional healing is difficult. It is painful beyond belief. Bearing > it all without complaint, without revealing the pain or the past but > being denounced by people who take sport in it like they're in the > audience at the Coloseum in Rome two millenium ago is just another > part of the life of someone officially designated by health > professionals who are experts in their field as a "survivor" is just > another afternoon in the life of such a person. It hurts. But it > doesn't hurt as much as the typical afternoon the person faced as a 5 > year old. > > It hurts to read the stories of spoiled brats who gloat in the fact > that they had to join Purusha while students at MIU because they > wanted to take a break from screwing in the recesses of the Men's Dome > in Fairfield during meetings and ceremonies. The very dome the man > goes to to do program and/or round to help purge himself of those > scary memories. It hurts to read about the spoiled brat telling about > working in the French Quarter and having women bare their breasts to > them while they work and to have people counsel the spoiled brat on > how to declare bankruptcy to avoid paying off the debts they willingly > took on while screwing in the recesses of the Men's Dome at MIU. It > hurts to be denounced when in posts one objects to such things. > But that's just another afternoon as life of a survivor who's going > through the emotional healing. > > Now that was a nice aikido move, wasn't it? > **END** This is a terrible personal history and I cannot imagine any reader here not moved by it. Despite some of the rancor exchanged on this site I don't believe I'd be wrong to say that everyone only wishes you well and hopes for the highest happiness for you. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? A
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice. It Works
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminccollins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well I suppose I should just let this all pass. But since Tom made > some specific accusations I feel I should respond just to set the > record straight. > > Professionally I am an adjunct faculty member teaching multi-media > and programming at a small college in Long Beach, CA. I've been > here for 6 years now and for the past two terms received > the "Student's Choice Award" for best instructor. I came here after > leaving a high paying corporate job after my boss left and his > replacement didn't care for me. I prefer teaching to corporate > management and am fine with the lower pay because this is a better > way to make a living. Overall, I think I have a stable job history. > > Yes, I'm divorced, just like over 50% of the US population. I have > my kids every weekend and they are delightful, strong and healthy > children who love their Dad. No problems there. > > In addition to my 20 hours of college classes, I work on puja.net > roughly 30 hours a week. I pay myself $1000 a month because if I > didn't there would be no puja.net and I figure I'm worth $9/hour. > The yagya program provides the funds to support 6 priests and their > family. We pay them well and they live happily. This is my > contribution towards the preservation of the vedic tradition. I > created something where before there was nothing. > > I'd love to do yagyas full time just like I loved the 5 years I > taught TM full time back in the 70's (in Chicago mostly). I > probably could if I approached this as a business. But that seems > to me to defeat the higher purpose. Inevitably Puja.net has > business elements, but it has evolved into more than just yagyas; > there are audio and video programs, a podcast, the service we do in > the temples around Kanchipuram, the food and dhotis that we dontate > to the children in the pundit ashrams, etc. Only the yagyas involve > money right now. We are large enough and the participation levels > are high enough that we can offer 4 days of full scale yagyas for > $65. That is, to me, an accomplishment and I tend to view puja.net > as a yagya co-op as much as anything. > > I know I've made mistakes and I am sure there is still room for > improvement. But ten years ago there was nothing like a yagya co-op > and I was figuring it out as I went along. So mistakes and missteps > are inevitable. And certainly when one puts oneself out there, > there are a few who will view it as a target opportunity. It just > goes with the territory. **END** I've been participating in Puja.net, at a very modest level for many months now, and, for what it's worth, I've very much appreciated the opportunity to contribute to what I similarly feel is an authentic expression of the Vedic tradition. Also, I have appreciated the presentation at the website and the expanding and educational menu available there. Can't claim to be subtle enough to notice any "results" per se but, although results were partially a motivation to joining, the primary value for me comes just from the sense of participation. It just feels good to know that this is going on and that, in some small fashion, I am supporting it. My kudos to Ben for getting this started, and for continuing to manage its growth and expansion. In all my dealings with him he has been helpful and considerate. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 1998 experience NOT believed to be Dark Night of the Soul
Thanks, LB, much appreciated. Marek ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Desolate in Delhi > > My stay in the Valley of the Saints was drawing toward its inevitable close. I accepted this > without concern, even though I could not remember having been as happy anywhere as I > had been here, beside the swiftly flowing waters of the world's most sacred river. I had > been living a life of constant satsang among the saints, sadhus, and swamis, and working > daily with the brahmacharis translating the 108 discourses of Brahmanandaji. However, I > had also enjoyed the freedom of the lone traveler to explore and investigate, poking into > obscure corners of a place that might have been better off if time had forgotten ita > possibility that disappeared without a trace when the Beatles arrived in '68. > No longer the pristine sanctuary of its legendary past, Rishikesh nevertheless remains > a place where the real and the unreal can be compared like tomatoes at a supermarket. I > had been generously treated to both. > The Gangadharishwar Ashram, my home for nearly six weeks, is located on the west > bank of the river, exactly across from Maharishi's ashram to the east. Like many of the > ashrams in Rishikesh, it has a dual function: first, as a home for those in full time pursuit > of Supreme Knowledge, and secondly as a retreat center for householders and others who > can only come for weekends or summer courses. > One such family from Delhi came to the ashram shortly before I leftfather, mother, > daughter, two sons, aunt, and nephew. Late one afternoon a few days after they arrived, I > watched as a trespassing monkey chased the little girl wildly around the inner courtyard , > to the intense amusement of her father, uncle, brothers, and some of the workers at the > ashram. I suspect he was in love. > The next morning I was sitting in the sun beside the river when the young lady sat > down beside me. Her name was Kanika. In the course of our conversation, which covered a > surprising amount of ground in a fairly short time, she told me that she really liked > studying Sanskrit because it was so easy. I flinched, but only on "that quiet level," so she > didn't notice. I asked her how she liked mathematics. Just fine, she told me, math was also > easy. I asked her if anything in school was difficult for her. She paused a moment and said, > no, everything was easy. I was starting to feel awed by her radiant intelligence, almost > forgetting that I was talking with a ten-year-old. Then I asked her what she liked best in > school, and she told me that reading stories was her favorite activity. Her favorite stories? > Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella. > We met by the river again the following morning. Kanika sang me a hymn from the > Christian school she attended in Delhi, and I sang "Long Black Veil," the only song I could > remember from beginning to end. A few days later my little friend and her family left the > ashram. Her father, Mukesh, asked where I would be staying in Delhi and when I would > arrive, and then they were gone. > My own departure came shortly thereafter. The most difficult part was saying > goodbye to Swamini Maneeshananda, who had been my dearest friend and teacher during > my stay at the ashram. At 75, Mata Ji had been at Gangadharishwar for 27 years. As I sat in > the back seat of the taxi , she reached through the window and gently touched my facea > rare blessing from a Sannyasi, and especially poignant when given by this one. She had > recently told me that she felt she had fulfilled life's purpose, and now she was only > "waiting for the body to drop." I certainly hoped she wasn't in any kind of hurry, and as the > taxi wound its way through the village streets of Purani Jhadi, I finally realized how > reluctant I was to leave. > The Maha Kumbh Mela was still in progress at Haridwar, and the train station was > packed with sadhus and pilgrims. I took the Shatabdi Express to Delhi, arriving late on > Wednesday afternoon. Then I checked in at the Namaskar hotel, just off the Main Bazaar in > the Pahar Ganj, a low rent commercial district west of the main railway station. > Thursday morning I went back to the railway station to buy my ticket for the two-day > trip to Bangalore. On the way back to the Namaskar I bumped into Mukesh, who had > looked me up as promised. The next day he came back to accompany me on various > errands I had to run in Delhi before leaving. We took an autorickshaw through Connaught > Place and south along Janpath, past the India Gate and deep into the southeast part of > New Delhi, where I had located a photo lab that could process my film quickly and cheaply. > Then we headed west across town to visit a friend I had met in Rishikesh. > The pollution in Delhi is among the worst in the world. I had heard
[FairfieldLife] Re: Re cert techers returning and Investing in FF a joke, CAFO
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If people think they are going to get enlightened by > > living in SV houses they are complete fools. Why MMY > > is shilling SV is beyond me. Realization has > > absolutely nothing to do with the shape or the > > orientation of the house you live in. Some effect on > > "energy"? Sure, why not, but enlightenment? No way. > > Enlightenment dependent on the shape and orientation > > of the house you live in! It's a joke! MMY is making a > > funny. > > MMY is making an ass of himself and a mockery > of his teacher. He needs to do what Guru Dev > first told him to do and go spend some time > in a non-SV cave meditating. > > As far as I can tell, the whole SV phenomenon > is *exactly* the "cart before the horse" > "tragedy of knowledge" phenomenon he used to > speak of in the early days when the knowledge > was still familiar to him. It's the kind of > desperate gesture one invents when enlighten- > ment hasn't appeared as promised after decades > of practice. Snip to End ** Without addressing many of the other reasons that have been advanced regarding why Maharishi has trumpeted all these other "vedic" technologies over the past couple of decades and, besides lip service, almost entirely ignored promoting meditation, I would posit another. It might not be the most plausible but it does, for me at least, allow some degree of reconciliation between the Maharishi I had personal exposure to in the 70's and the intentions (as I understood them) behind his schemes then and some possible intentions driving his schemes now. (Even though I realize that ultimately it makes no difference if I can reconcile anything aboout Maharishi. That's not my goal; only these are ideas that keep knocking about.) It seems not unlikely that the "need" for deep-meditation and transcendence felt by so many of us in the 60s, 70's and 80's was largely satisfied by TM and a number of other spiritual techniques promulgated during that time. Basically, there was a limited world "market" for effective sadhana, but a much larger "market" for products and services that promote or "point to" the eventual need for personal sadhana. Since Maharishi acts like a businessman in the way he addresses his organization, it seems entirely reasonable that the branching out into areas of life that are of more quotidian concern and contextualizing them within Maharishi's "vedic" tradition that upholds the basic premise of Absolute and relative and attempts to establish the proper relationship between the two in the life of the individual is just a natural "business-like" way of addressing the drying-up of demand for transcendence, while at the same time promoting a point of view that, if followed, eventually leads the individual to the need for transcendence. Like nesting dolls that share the basic shape and configuration in a fractal-like design relationship, they reflect and support the particular and the whole simultaneously and seamlessly. It's not dissimilar in theory to everyday life in India where even today everything is marketed and sold with (and by) the images of the Gods and most people walk around with their spiritual third-eye marked with vermillion and roadside shrines to Ganesh and Hanuman and Devi, decorated with the wares of the garland sellers, are ubiquitous. In that context, everywhere you look, your attention is being directed towards a higher reality, a more sublime vision, a more cosmic POV. And, not surprisingly, because Maharishi comes out of that same cultural milieu I believe it's likely that he saw/sees his mission as "growing" beyond teaching meditation and rising to help establish a larger social context where meditation is honored (or at least understood) because it is seen as the natural core (or apex) of the activity of a life well-lived. It's like the spiritual "pyramid" of life, with so many servings of Stapathya Ved, so many servings of Ayur Ved, Jyotish, etc. And, certainly, the branching out and branding of the everday essentials does provide an income stream as well. The fact that, although Maharishi has been "successful" in his business, he has not really been a good businessman -- making all sorts of plans and schemes and investing time and energy into them, only to drop them shortly thereafter and not following up on successes achieved -- suggests that he is still, to some extent (primarily? partially?), motivated by what he and his organization still characterize as the greater good of World Peace that really isn't driven by market concerns. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM -
