Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
MMY - Yogi and Seer: So, you think that the Adi Shankaracharya of Sringeri not only initiated disciples into Sri Vidya practices, but said: Worship of Sri Chakra is a must for the Swamis of the peetha. And, as noted, not by householders, but by Swamis? Sri Vidya practice consists of tantric yoga techniques such as mantra, yantra and puja. According to Brooks, The srividya, because it consists of indestructible seed syllables (bijaksara) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as semantic meaning. Accordingly, a bija-only mantra is not merely esoteric but inherently superior. Because it is purely seed-syllables [bijasaras] is the purest form of mantra. It does not make a request or praise god, it is God's purest expression. Gayatri is great but it cannot match srividya because it is still in language; it is Veda and mantra but when transformed into the srividya its greatness increases. From what I've read, the TM bija mantras come from the Sri Vidya tradition. This makes sense when you consider that Swami Brahmanand Saraswati was a Shri Vidya adherent, like his master Swami Krishnananda Saraswari of Sringeri. Sringeri is the headquarters for the Saraswati sannyasin and the center of Sri Vidya worship. [image: Inline image 1] And, isn't it a fact that the principal deity, Saradambal, the Goddess of Learning, is a focus of a mighty spiritual force? According to my informant, Saradamba, by all legendary accounts, is a deity of Kashmir who was literally brought down to the south of India by Adi Shankara. He installed the Sri Yantra at the Kamakshi Temple by Shankarachary himself at Kanchipuram. Swami Krishnananda Saraswati: Mystic and Master: [image: Inline image 2] So, let's go figure. There is a shrine to Shankara at the Sri Vidya temple down in Kanchipuram peeth, wherein lies the Sri Cakra or Sri Yantra. And, the Swami Rama's recounted in his book, Living With the Himalyan Masters, a direct, first hand account of Guru Dev having a Sri Yantra in his possession: Shri Yantra in two dimensions: [image: Inline image 3] During our conversation he started talking to me about Sri Vidya, the highest of paths, followed only by accomplished Sanskrit scholars of India. It is a path which joins raja yoga, kundalini yoga, bhakti yoga, and advaita Vedanta. There are two books recommended by the teachers of this path: The Wave of Bliss and The Wave of Beauty; the compilation of the two books is called Saundaryalahari in Sanskrit. Swami Rama of the Himalayas wrote that SBS was a proponent of the Sri Vidya, and that he used to worship a ruby-encrusted Sri Chakra. Brahmananda Saraswati: Yogi and Siddha: [image: Inline image 4] So, to sum up: So, I guess we can conclude that Swami Krishnananda of Sringeri was a Himalayan Master. And, we can also conclude that SBS, his disciple, was a Himalayan Master. And, I guess we can conclude that Swami Rama was a Himalayan Master, since he founded the Himalayan Institute. MMY came out of the Himalayas and he looks like a Himalayan Master. So, if someone comes out of the Himalayas after studying with a Himalayan Master, and MMY looks and talks like a Himalayan Master, then MMY must be some kind of Himalayan Master. And, since people all over India used to call MMY a Master, then he is probably a Master of some kind. So, since the TM bija mantras came from Naryana, through Parashara and Shakti, down to the Adi Shankara, passed on to Shantanand Saraswati, and Vasudevanand Saraswati, are which are included in the supreme scripture of the Sri Vidya, the Soundaryalahari, we can conclude that the Mahesh Yogi got the TM bija mantras fromthe Shri Vidya tradition. James Duffy and Billy Smith both seem to agree with this. They understand that the TM bijas came from the Sri Vidya tradition, but emptybill cannot. Go figure. Notes: Apparently, the 33rd Shankaracharya of the Sringeri Matha died before he could give all the initiations to the 34th, his succossor. However, the 33rd is reputed to have said: Worship of Sri Chakra is a must for the Swamis of the peetha. According to an authority on the subject, normally the Srividya mantropadesa would be done by the guru, but Narasimha Bharati had passed away before his disciple arrived at Sringeri. Hence the mantropadesa was done by Srikanta Sastri. He had been initiated into it by Narasimha Bharati Mahaswami the34th. The Pontiff's rein was from 1912 to 1953, so he was a contemporary of Guru Dev. The 33rd. was Sri Narasimha Bharati Mahaswami, making him a contemporary of SBS's Guru, Swami Krishnanand Saraswati. Works cited: 'Living With the Himalayan Masters' by Swami Rama Himayan Institure, 1999 p.245 Auspicious Wisdon The texts and traditions of Srividya Sakta Tantrism in South India. by Douglas Renfrew Brooks SUNY 1992 p.95 On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Richard Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: [image: Inline image 1] MMY and Swami Venkatesananda Saraswati at Rishikesh According to MMY, sidha yoga is a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
RW, Good descriptive paragraph. That is my experience. Thanks for the put to words and posting it here, -Buck RW writes, According to Brooks, The srividya, because it consists of indestructible seed syllables (bijaksara) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as semantic meaning. Accordingly, a bija-only mantra is not merely esoteric but inherently superior. Because it is purely seed-syllables [bijasaras] is the purest form of mantra. It does not make a request or praise god, it is God's purest expression. Gayatri is great but it cannot match srividya because it is still in language; it is Veda and mantra but when transformed into the srividya its greatness increases. MMY - Yogi and Seer: So, you think that the Adi Shankaracharya of Sringeri not only initiated disciples into Sri Vidya practices, but said: Worship of Sri Chakra is a must for the Swamis of the peetha. And, as noted, not by householders, but by Swamis? Sri Vidya practice consists of tantric yoga techniques such as mantra, yantra and puja. According to Brooks, The srividya, because it consists of indestructible seed syllables (bijaksara) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as semantic meaning. Accordingly, a bija-only mantra is not merely esoteric but inherently superior. Because it is purely seed-syllables [bijasaras] is the purest form of mantra. It does not make a request or praise god, it is God's purest expression. Gayatri is great but it cannot match srividya because it is still in language; it is Veda and mantra but when transformed into the srividya its greatness increases. From what I've read, the TM bija mantras come from the Sri Vidya tradition. This makes sense when you consider that Swami Brahmanand Saraswati was a Shri Vidya adherent, like his master Swami Krishnananda Saraswari of Sringeri. Sringeri is the headquarters for the Saraswati sannyasin and the center of Sri Vidya worship. And, isn't it a fact that the principal deity, Saradambal, the Goddess of Learning, is a focus of a mighty spiritual force? According to my informant, Saradamba, by all legendary accounts, is a deity of Kashmir who was literally brought down to the south of India by Adi Shankara. He installed the Sri Yantra at the Kamakshi Temple by Shankarachary himself at Kanchipuram. Swami Krishnananda Saraswati: Mystic and Master: So, let's go figure. There is a shrine to Shankara at the Sri Vidya temple down in Kanchipuram peeth, wherein lies the Sri Cakra or Sri Yantra. And, the Swami Rama's recounted in his book, Living With the Himalyan Masters, a direct, first hand account of Guru Dev having a Sri Yantra in his possession: Shri Yantra in two dimensions: During our conversation he started talking to me about Sri Vidya, the highest of paths, followed only by accomplished Sanskrit scholars of India. It is a path which joins raja yoga, kundalini yoga, bhakti yoga, and advaita Vedanta. There are two books recommended by the teachers of this path: The Wave of Bliss and The Wave of Beauty; the compilation of the two books is called Saundaryalahari in Sanskrit. Swami Rama of the Himalayas wrote that SBS was a proponent of the Sri Vidya, and that he used to worship a ruby-encrusted Sri Chakra. Brahmananda Saraswati: Yogi and Siddha: So, to sum up: So, I guess we can conclude that Swami Krishnananda of Sringeri was a Himalayan Master. And, we can also conclude that SBS, his disciple, was a Himalayan Master. And, I guess we can conclude that Swami Rama was a Himalayan Master, since he founded the Himalayan Institute. MMY came out of the Himalayas and he looks like a Himalayan Master. So, if someone comes out of the Himalayas after studying with a Himalayan Master, and MMY looks and talks like a Himalayan Master, then MMY must be some kind of Himalayan Master. And, since people all over India used to call MMY a Master, then he is probably a Master of some kind. So, since the TM bija mantras came from Naryana, through Parashara and Shakti, down to the Adi Shankara, passed on to Shantanand Saraswati, and Vasudevanand Saraswati, are which are included in the supreme scripture of the Sri Vidya, the Soundaryalahari, we can conclude that the Mahesh Yogi got the TM bija mantras fromthe Shri Vidya tradition. James Duffy and Billy Smith both seem to agree with this. They understand that the TM bijas came from the Sri Vidya tradition, but emptybill cannot. Go figure. Notes: Apparently, the 33rd Shankaracharya of the Sringeri Matha died before he could give all the initiations to the 34th, his succossor. However, the 33rd is reputed to have said: Worship of Sri Chakra is a must for the Swamis of the peetha. According to an authority on the subject, normally the Srividya mantropadesa would be done by the guru, but Narasimha Bharati had passed away before his disciple arrived at
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
[image: Inline image 1] MMY and Swami Venkatesananda Saraswati at Rishikesh According to MMY, sidha yoga is a mechanical processes. There is no religious prayer in the practice of TMer siddha yoga. It's not based on faith or a particular belief. There is no god of yoga, which enters into the physical universe and causes change. Religions are based on faith and surrender, not on individual freedom and will-power. Success in yoga is not dependent on any kind of religious practice. Mircea Elliade wrote that yoga means freedom and immortality. 'Siddha yoga' means 'perfected, that is, enlightened, transcended into pure consciousness, which is made manifest in the individual by 'self-knowledge' and 'Self-Knowlege. Enlightenment is the state pertaining to 'gnosis' - that which ends the identity of the mind with sense phenomena - knowledge that is transcendentnal, or beyond sense perceptions. The Sanskrit term 'yoga' refers to the techniques for experiencing higher states of consciousness in meditation. The earliest mention of meditative states are the Buddhist records of the historical Buddha. The enlightenment tradition originated in South Asia. Mircea Eliade notes that yoga and the shramana or renounced tradition is native to South Asia - it isn't found in the mythology or religious systems of western culture. Asceticism seems to be peculiar to the Buddhist, Jain, and Hindu philosophies. Go figure. The first historical yogin was Shakya the Muni, who formulated the 'Eightfold Path' leading to Nirvana. The term 'nirvana' is Sanskrit, and is the central concept in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Kashmere Shaivism. Nirvana is the state of being enlightened, free from ignorance. A state where the mind that has come to a point of perfect lucidity and clarity due to the cessation of the production of volitional formations. Patanjali says that yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind-stuff (Charles Johnston translation). Yoga is the cessation of the mental turnings of the mind. - Yoga Sutra, I.1.2 Let there be soundless repetition of the [pranava] and meditation thereon. - Yoga Sutra, I. 1.28 Chit is thought; citta is consciousness. Citta vriti means the turning of thought in the mind. Nirodha is cessation - the turnings have stopped, ceased, come to a halt, stilled, blown out, made peaceful, Nirvana means release; thought has been totally left behind - consciousness all by itself; there is no returning; no more. Siddhis are an indicator of natural law - causation. Patanjali says: Yoga has to do *isolation* (Sanskrit kaivalya) from the prakriti. Cessation, (Sanskrit nirodha) of the fluctuations of the mindstuff and the attainment of freedom, based on the sheer willpower of the individual (moksha). Freedom is a reversal of the evolutionary course of prakriti, which is empty of meaning for the Purusha; it is also the power of consciousness in a state of true identity. - Yoga Sutra, 4.34 The 'Yogavasishta' is a synthesis of Upanishadic Advaita, Buddhist Vijnanavada and the Trika philosophy of Kashmir Shivaism. Swami Venkatesananda also wrote a lucid abbreviated translation of the Yogavasishta. There is also a good translation by Swami Jyotirmayananda. The Yoga Vasishta sums up the spiritual process in terms of the Seven Bhoomikas: 1. Subecha - Longing for the Truth 2. Vicharana - Right inquiry 3. Tanumanasa - Attenuation of mental activities 4. Sattvapati - Attainment of Sattva 5. Asamsakti - Unaffected by anything 6. Pararthabhavani - See Brahman everywhere. 7. Turiya - Perpetual Samadhi Work cited: 'History of Religious Ideas Volume 2' From Gautama Buddha to the Triumph of Christianity by Mircea Eliade University Of Chicago Press, 1985 'Yoga: Discipline of Freedom' by Barbara Stoler Miller Bantam Wisdom Editions 1998 p. 5, 52. References: 'The Concise Yoga Vasistha' By Swami Venkatesananda and Christopher Chapple State University of New York Press, 1984 'Yoga Vasistha' By Swami Jyotirmayananda Yoga Research Foundation, 1977 On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: According to MMY in Beacon Light of the Himalayas' For our practice, we select only the suitable mantras of personal Gods. Such mantras fetch to us the grace of personal Gods and make us happier in every walk of life. This statement was confirmed by Satyanand at a CCP I once attended in Berkely with Jerry Jarvis. Bhagavan Das wrote that MMY gave him the bija mantra Ram to use in his meditation. But, strictly speaking, the bija mantras are not the actual names of the Gods - they are just the nick-names of the Devatas. Apparently only very highly evolved individuals get to be on a first name basis with God Almighty! In fact, all the TM bija mantras are common tantric householder mantras. All the Devatas such as Rama, Ram Chandra, Devaki, Vasudeva and Krishna used these same mantras. The Devatas are deified heroes, that is, that are highly evolved humans. They reached a
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Both of these Sanskrit works mean dark, black, blue. That means there is no intrinsic association of these sounds with Krishna or Kali. They are titles of these devas because that is how they are narrated in the Puranas. The associated meaning of these Sanskrit words relate to Krishna/Kali because both of these deities are described in the Puranas as being dark ... in the case of Krishna dark blue and for Kali black. Same for Laksmi's name/sound, signifying what is opulent and glorious. It is an honorific title for someone. An example would be the name Sri Aurobindo which literally means honorable ray of bindus. Thus the term - aura (a form of ara as in sahasra-ara chakra (wheel of a thousand rays) + bindu ( a point-essence). Interesting meaning but not too esotetic in actuality. It ain't Praire Dog mysticism (i.e. mystification). ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael Shyama is Kali, while Shyam is Krishna. ShyAmA-kAli has a somewhat tender aspect and is worshipped in the Hindu household http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ramakrishna/kali.html http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ramakrishna/kali.html ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
According to MMY in Beacon Light of the Himalayas' For our practice, we select only the suitable mantras of personal Gods. Such mantras fetch to us the grace of personal Gods and make us happier in every walk of life. This statement was confirmed by Satyanand at a CCP I once attended in Berkely with Jerry Jarvis. Bhagavan Das wrote that MMY gave him the bija mantra Ram to use in his meditation. But, strictly speaking, the bija mantras are not the actual names of the Gods - they are just the nick-names of the Devatas. Apparently only very highly evolved individuals get to be on a first name basis with God Almighty! In fact, all the TM bija mantras are common tantric householder mantras. All the Devatas such as Rama, Ram Chandra, Devaki, Vasudeva and Krishna used these same mantras. The Devatas are deified heroes, that is, that are highly evolved humans. They reached a high level of consciousness by yogic means - tapas, and by utilizing the same non-ideational mnemonic devices as we TMers use today. That's why MMY selected only suitable mantras that the ancient yogis used, because they are time-tested. In the Shankaracharya tradition, such mantras indeed fetch to us the grace of the Devatas, and they make us happier in every walk of life. So, I mean, who doesn't like to hear the sound of their own name? Work cited: 'It's Here Now (Are You?)' By Bhagavan Das Broadway, 1998 On 10/10/2013 6:01 PM, iranitea wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. Sure about that? I found copies of the beacon light online, and there is no such reference in it. Rather, to the opposite, there is a report, that the persons mantra is selected according to their Ishta Devata, Also people are adviced to meditate for one hour, or if they don't experience Ananda, to just meditate long enough. There is no mention of the Ram mantra or the Shyam mantra there. On which page would that be? It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. Again, where do you get this from? Can you name a source? In 1957 Maharishi was still in India, and AFAIK there was no other uniform method of selection there. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning every so often, and look at things from a different point of view, devoid of the explanations (thought stoppers you've been told about them in the past. Things are *funnier* that way, and we all need a little funny in our lives. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
turq, you and everybody else are simply celebrating forms of feminine wisdom. But your forms of that are called Maya, Messy Nessy, Susan wayback and Jane Fonda whereas some call it Saraswati. And logic dictates that there is at least one human out of the billions who celebrate feminine wisdom in the form of Miley Cyrus! In each case, a human is giving their positive attention to an experience of theirs. Yes there is a difference in what evokes that experience. That is for some it is an actual person Maya; for some it is a video clip Miley; for some it is an online person wayback Susan; for others it is a devotional picture Saraswati. I bet there are even those who experience Saraswati as three dimensionally as you experience Maya. I think whether we call it bowing down or surrendering or aligning or celebrating or adoring or admiring, when we give our positive attention to anyone, what is truly funny is that we are really giving it to ourselves also. On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:05 AM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning every so often, and look at things from a different point of view, devoid of the explanations (thought stoppers you've been told about them in the past. Things are *funnier* that way, and we all need a little funny in our lives. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Maybe it's time to define the term bija mantra. Vedic mantras are not the same as bija mantras. Vedic mantras are words in Sanskrit found in the Rig Veda; tantric bija mantras are non-semantic; there are no bija mantras found in the Rig Veda. According to Swami Ageananda Bharati, the bija mantras of the tantric tradition are composed of phonemes, or quasi phonemes, or mixed-phonemes and quasi phonemes, that are given out in a ritual initiation by one guru to one chela. Words or phrases found in books or online are not true bija mantras since they aren't given in initiation - they are just nonsense gibberish - there is no shakti in them unless given in initiation, according to the Tantras. Notes: Vedic mantras are the words found in the Vedas, which were composed in Sanskrit. Bija mantras in contrast, are esoteric sounds not found in a standard Sanskrit lexicon. The use of bija mantras is a relativley recent practice. The first use of bija mantras is probably the Buddhist 'Heart Sutra, (Prajnaparmita Hridaya) which was composed around 200 B.C., probably in the Swat Valley. Hindu bija mantras came after that, along with the Indian alchemists, the so-called '84 Maha-Siddhas' of Siddha Yoga Tantric tradition during the Gupta Age in India. Kashmir Shaivism resembles Hindu tantra, and both have as their key symbol the Shri Yantra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_Shaivism Work cited: 'The Tantric Tradition' by Agehananda Bharati Rider, 1965 On 10/9/2013 6:14 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Now you're cooking with shakti! :-D On 10/09/2013 02:46 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: A seed when sown grows into a fruitful tree, like that Beej Mantra is a fun of shakti. There are Various Beej Mantras which are an important part of Mantras and each Beej mantra has its own power and when mixed with mantras adds extra power to the traits of that mantra. According the mantras which contain up to nine words are termed Beej Mantra, ten or twenty words forms Mantra and beyond are known Maha Mantra. Broadly mantras are divided into three parts as Satwic, Rajsic, and Tamsic which respectively indicate Atma uplift, religious and material comforts and death, Uchatan, loss of enemies and opponents. SAMPUT : Samput are the specified words used in a mantra. These can be used in the beginning, middle or at the end of a mantra. The Samput has a great value in Mantra Shakti or in other Mantras and be used carefully. In English we can pronunciate the above samput like as : 1 Om aeeng Kaleeng soo. 2 Om shareeng Hareeng shareeng. 3 Om aeeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 4 Om Shareeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 5 Om Hareeng. 6 Om aeeing Hareeng Kaleeng. Mantras one should use in its daily life ( Beej Mantra ) Astroshastra provides you a few important Mantras, method of their recitation, use and other aspects. More of them STAND TESTED and are very useful for day to day life. These mantras have been selected from Puranas, Hindu religion and old texts. Other religious persons may follow their corresponding words. Which are equally applicable and can be recited beneficially. These basic Beej mantras are for every time use by the Sadhaka, which lead early to the siddhi of your mantra. 1 Om Namah Shivaye. 2 Om Namah Narayane Aye Namaha. 3 Om Namah Bhagwate Vasdevaye Namaha. 4 BismiIa-Rehman-ul-Ramheem. 5 Om bhur bhavsa soha tat savetur Vareneyam bargo devasyaha dhi mahi dayo yona parachodyat. On Wed, 10/9/13, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 8:26 PM You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Yes, it is a good thing to step back from the conditioning every so often. Unfortunatly you don't seem to have been able to step back from the materialistic conditioning - you're still almost totally ignorant of the Siddha Tradition in India except for a few nonsense notions you got from Fred Lenz. After all these years I thought you would have at least had some real insight into your tantric practice - somehow you managed to go backwards in your spiritual pursuit. Go figure. On 10/10/2013 3:05 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44%20http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44%20 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning every so often, and look at things from a different point of view, devoid of the explanations (thought stoppers you've been told about them in the past. Things are *funnier* that way, and we all need a little funny in our lives. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
The Wisdom tradition is very ancient. May the Goddess Saraswati, with all power, full of power, further us, as the guide of our minds. - Rig Veda VI. 61.9, 11, 3 The Saraswati bija mantra IS Sri Saraswati - Pure Intelligence, Sri Vidya, - Auspicious Wisdom. The Saraswati bija, because it consists of indestructible seed syllables (bijaksara) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as deity or semantic meaning or gender. Accordingly, the Saraswati bija mantra is not merely esoteric, but inherently superior to all gods, goddesses, dieties, demi-gods or devatas. Share seems to understands this; Uncle Tantra, maybe not. Go figure. Read more: 'Exploring Meditation' Master the Ancient Art of Relaxation and Enlightenment By Susan G. Shumsky New Page Books, 2001 On 10/10/2013 6:25 AM, Share Long wrote: turq, you and everybody else are simply celebrating forms of feminine wisdom. But your forms of that are called Maya, Messy Nessy, Susan wayback and Jane Fonda whereas some call it Saraswati. And logic dictates that there is at least one human out of the billions who celebrate feminine wisdom in the form of Miley Cyrus! In each case, a human is giving their positive attention to an experience of theirs. Yes there is a difference in what evokes that experience. That is for some it is an actual person Maya; for some it is a video clip Miley; for some it is an online person wayback Susan; for others it is a devotional picture Saraswati. I bet there are even those who experience Saraswati as three dimensionally as you experience Maya. I think whether we call it bowing down or surrendering or aligning or celebrating or adoring or admiring, when we give our positive attention to anyone, what is truly funny is that we are really giving it to ourselves also. On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:05 AM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44%20http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Richard, maybe I understand this because I'm so good at savasana (-: On Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:47 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: The Wisdom tradition is very ancient. May the Goddess Saraswati, with all power, full of power, further us, as the guide of our minds. - Rig Veda VI. 61.9, 11, 3 The Saraswati bija mantra IS Sri Saraswati - Pure Intelligence, Sri Vidya, - Auspicious Wisdom. The Saraswati bija, because it consists of indestructible seed syllables (bijaksara) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as deity or semantic meaning or gender. Accordingly, the Saraswati bija mantra is not merely esoteric, but inherently superior to all gods, goddesses, dieties, demi-gods or devatas. Share seems to understands this; Uncle Tantra, maybe not. Go figure. Read more: 'Exploring Meditation' Master the Ancient Art of Relaxation and Enlightenment By Susan G. Shumsky New Page Books, 2001 On 10/10/2013 6:25 AM, Share Long wrote: turq, you and everybody else are simply celebrating forms of feminine wisdom. But your forms of that are called Maya, Messy Nessy, Susan wayback and Jane Fonda whereas some call it Saraswati. And logic dictates that there is at least one human out of the billions who celebrate feminine wisdom in the form of Miley Cyrus! In each case, a human is giving their positive attention to an experience of theirs. Yes there is a difference in what evokes that experience. That is for some it is an actual person Maya; for some it is a video clip Miley; for some it is an online person wayback Susan; for others it is a devotional picture Saraswati. I bet there are even those who experience Saraswati as three dimensionally as you experience Maya. I think whether we call it bowing down or surrendering or aligning or celebrating or adoring or admiring, when we give our positive attention to anyone, what is truly funny is that we are really giving it to ourselves also. On Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:05 AM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Well, the gods and goddesses are really just metaphors for laws of nature. They were made up to explain things to simple people. Nama meaing bow down really means allowing that energy in. The mantras are just sounds that have a certain effect just as different music has a different effect. Mantra shastra isn't all that complicated. Much of this stuff was meant to be taught to simple people in villages who wouldn't have much education. Village tantra, however, is very suitable for the modern age because we don't have so much time for complicated things. Simple beej mantras were used because they didn't require any energizing to be used. Anyone can teach them. On 10/10/2013 01:05 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44%20http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44%20 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning every so often, and look at things from a different point of view, devoid of the explanations (thought stoppers you've been told about them in the past. Things are *funnier* that way, and we all need a little funny in our lives. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. Sure about that? I found copies of the beacon light online, and there is no such reference in it. Rather, to the opposite, there is a report, that the persons mantra is selected according to their Ishta Devata, Also people are adviced to meditate for one hour, or if they don't experience Ananda, to just meditate long enough. There is no mention of the Ram mantra or the Shyam mantra there. On which page would that be? It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. Again, where do you get this from? Can you name a source? In 1957 Maharishi was still in India, and AFAIK there was no other uniform method of selection there. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael Shyama is Kali, while Shyam is Krishna. ShyAmA-kAli has a somewhat tender aspect and is worshipped in the Hindu household http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ramakrishna/kali.html http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ramakrishna/kali.html ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Hasn't empirical research shown that the RAM mantra is the most powerful and effective mantra to use and to recite? Which is why MMY used it when he first started out. Also, as we're encouraged to simply allow the syllable to change emphasis, speed and pronunciation as it goes, isn't any talk of the effects of any particular mantra rather redundant? I mean, there's a tradition that says all mantras at the subtlest level approach the primordial sound OM. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
FYI, RAM in ayurveda calms vata. It is considered a Shanti mantra. And it is commonly used when teaching meditation for the masses. Bhagavan Das mentions in his book that he was given RAM as his mantra when Maharishi taught him. Bhagavan Das was the young American that Ram Das met in India and mentions in Be Here Now. He used to sell cars in Marin county and then went back to a spiritual path hanging out at Harbin Hot Springs and performing bhajans. Last I heard he had moved back east but that was over 10 years ago. On 10/10/2013 06:02 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hasn't empirical research shown that the RAM mantra is the most powerful and effective mantra to use and to recite? Which is why MMY used it when he first started out. Also, as we're encouraged to simply allow the syllable to change emphasis, speed and pronunciation as it goes, isn't any talk of the effects of any particular mantra rather redundant? I mean, there's a tradition that says all mantras at the subtlest level approach the primordial sound OM. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: When MMY first started out in Kerala, according to 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas', he only used Ram (for the guys) and Shyam (for the gals), not unlike the ISKCON pundit boys who sing the maha mantra. It was only later in 1957 that MMY started using the five bijas and created the sixteen variants bijas to include the Saraswati bija which he got from SBS. According to MMY, the Shankaracharya tradition is the custodian of the bija mantras. This makes sense because the sixteen bijas are enumerated in the Sound Arya Lahari, compiled by the Adi Shankara, the main scripture of the Sri Vidya sect. Go figure. A yoga teacher can use any seed sounds they want toin spiritual practice, even make up new ones, as long as they are given out in a ritual initiation. Otherwise, they are just simple phonemes or quasi-phonemes with no apparent meaning. However, most Indians, and thus most TMers, only use bijas in a short sentence, such as with the word 'namah' at the end. You get one single bija mantra in TM and then you get the more advanced technique with the added words. So, you get the seed sound and then the fertilizer; you water the root and enjoy the fruit. All you have to do is start the mantra and then just baby sit your bija and watch it grow. It's that simple! On 10/10/2013 9:41 AM, Michael Laurenson wrote: Hi Richard, I taught TM in the early 70s and been reading FFL posts for awhile. I've read that shyam, shyama are related to Krishna. Are these still considered Saraswati mantras? Warm regards, Michael
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right, while you seem to be in big denial there. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
During our conversation he started talking to me about Sri Vidya, the highest of paths, followed only by accomplished Sanskrit scholars of India. It is a path which joins raja yoga, kundalini yoga, bhakti yoga, and advaita Vedanta. There are two books recommended by the teachers of this path: The Wave of Bliss and The Wave of Beauty; the compilation of the two books is called Saundaryalahari in Sanskrit. There is another part of this literature, called Prayoga Shastra, which is in manuscript form and found only in the Mysore and Baroda libraries. No scholar can understand these spiritual yoga poems without the help of a competent teacher who himself practices these teachings. Later on I found that Sri Vidya and Madhu Vidya are spiritual practices known to a very few-only ten to twelve people in all of India. I became interested in knowing this science, and whatever little I have today is because of it. In this science the body is seen as a temple and the inner dweller, Atman, as God. A human being is like a miniature universe, and by understanding this, one can understand the whole of the universe and ultimately realize the absolute One. Finally, after studying many scriptures and learning various paths, my master helped me in choosing to practice the way of Sri Vidya (245). Work cited: 'Living with the Himalayan Masters' by Swami Rama Himalayan Institute Press, 2007 On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
So, we can assume, based on their input from this thread, that the bija mantras used in the basic TM practice came from MMY's teacher, SBS and the Shankaracharya tradition. No one seems to be disputing this. And we do know that everything MMY did he did it in the name of his teacher, SBS, according to Larry Domash. From him, Maharishi absorbed this timeless value, a breadth and delicacy of awareness that allows the full range of states of consciousness available to the human nervous system to be directly experienced in a systematic way. - Larry Domash So, let's examine the account by Larry Domash as to where the MMY bija mantras came from. The Shankaracharya tradition, furthermore, is considered to be the official custodian of the body of techniques and practices that constitute the physiological and experiential side of India's Vedic philosophy, especially those techniques that collectively may be called 'meditation'. - Larry Domash http://tinyurl.com/o65rpv2 So, the question is, why did Domash skip over the tantric origins of the SBS practice? Maybe because he is not a historian and didn't know about the SBS affilations with the Sri Vidya sect. Or, maybe he didn't know that the TM bija mantras are enumerated in the Sounda. Go figure. On 10/8/2013 8:32 AM, iranitea wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
It sounds to me like you wanted to believe there was pie up in the sky, but you failed to get any. Maybe you sucked as a baker or maybe you just couldn't sit still to do a simple kindergarden yoga pose. Go figure. Maybe you just conned yourself - at any rate, it must have been a powerful experience, since you're still talking about it after all these years. LoL! On 10/8/2013 12:26 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A *confidence trick* is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mamet's film /House of Games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Games/, the main con artist gives a slightly different description of the confidence game. He explains that, in a typical swindle, the con man gives the mark /his own/ confidence, encouraging the mark to in turn trust /him/. The con artist thus poses as a trustworthy person seeking another trustworthy person. *From:* turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:16 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
you are so far out in left field - there is zero evidence that GD gave marshy any mantras - that is an apocryphal TM story - given the fact that some claim GD told him he was NOT a spiritual teacher, that he was a business man why would he? Those mantras are commonly available in India - they are not specifically from GD or the Shankara tradition - nor is the TM puja - the idea of the holy tradition with the Big M as last custodian is a MYTH - but go ahead a believe it if you must. On Wed, 10/9/13, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 3:16 PM So, we can assume, based on their input from this thread, that the bija mantras used in the basic TM practice came from MMY's teacher, SBS and the Shankaracharya tradition. No one seems to be disputing this. And we do know that everything MMY did he did it in the name of his teacher, SBS, according to Larry Domash. From him, Maharishi absorbed this timeless value, a breadth and delicacy of awareness that allows the full range of states of consciousness available to the human nervous system to be directly experienced in a systematic way. - Larry Domash So, let's examine the account by Larry Domash as to where the MMY bija mantras came from. The Shankaracharya tradition, furthermore, is considered to be the official custodian of the body of techniques and practices that constitute the physiological and experiential side of India's Vedic philosophy, especially those techniques that collectively may be called 'meditation'. - Larry Domash http://tinyurl.com/o65rpv2 So, the question is, why did Domash skip over the tantric origins of the SBS practice? Maybe because he is not a historian and didn't know about the SBS affilations with the Sri Vidya sect. Or, maybe he didn't know that the TM bija mantras are enumerated in the Sounda. Go figure. On 10/8/2013 8:32 AM, iranitea wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Testing. Richard, maybe Domash didn't mention the tantric origins because Westerners can have such a narrow view of what tantra is. And that view does not include being a recluse! On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:18 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: It sounds to me like you wanted to believe there was pie up in the sky, but you failed to get any. Maybe you sucked as a baker or maybe you just couldn't sit still to do a simple kindergarden yoga pose. Go figure. Maybe you just conned yourself - at any rate, it must have been a powerful experience, since you're still talking about it after all these years. LoL! On 10/8/2013 12:26 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet's film House of Games, the main con artist gives a slightly different description of the confidence game. He explains that, in a typical swindle, the con man gives the mark his own confidence, encouraging the mark to in turn trust him. The con artist thus poses as a trustworthy person seeking another trustworthy person. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
So, since the TM bija mantras came from the Adi Shankara, passed down through Shantanand Saraswati, and are included in the supreme scripture of the Sri Vidya, the Saundaryalahari, we can conclude that the Mahesh Yogi probably got the TM bija mantras from his Master, Swami Brahmananda Saraswati. James Duffy and Billy Smith. Bija mantras issued by TM are ''Sri Vidya'' bija mantras. To be fair, I won't go into what they are, but if one listens to all TM mantras, except for 2, they are 2 or 3 syllable, and this is a very important component of the technique. From: Billy Smith Subject: Re: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: 2003-04-22 13:20:33 PST http://tinyurl.com/ye8my2 On 10/9/2013 8:32 AM, iranitea wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right,while you seem to be in big denial there. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right, while you seem to be in big denial there. Oh, really? In denial of what? Be specific, please. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. Nor, as you know, was that my intention. My intention was to provide the account Maharishi apparently (per Rick) approved. And there was no argument involved, as you know; I wasn't disputing anything, as I said. I haven't a clue whether Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect or not and couldn't care less. I wasn't responding to Richard's post, I was telling Seraphita about something I thought would interest her (and according to her, it did). Moreover, as you know, I was explicit that I was making no claims for the accuracy of Domash's account. I said, Whether it's 100 percent accurate is anyone's guess. Like Barry, you seem to have trouble distinguishing between Maharishi sez X and What Maharishi sez is true. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. Who criticizes Richard on that basis? To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. As you know, that is not what I said. What I said was: I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm anything. A lot of what he posts here (as you know) is *deliberately misleading* or *outright false* (such as his accusations against me that you are making an ass of yourself trying to defend). He may post some good information here from time to time, but given his trollish and deceptive habits, I don't take his word for anything. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? I'm flattered you think I'm capable of reading Domash's mind of 40-some years ago. But really, all I can do is speculate: He was writing primarily for scientists (the intended readership of the Collected Papers volumes), so he may not have thought lore about the history and provenance of mantras or other fundamental informations (hint: information is always singular in English) discussed here was really very pertinent in that context. That the mantras are common place in India isn't much of a revelation, nor does it make any difference to how they're used in TM. Just in general, the purpose of the essay was not to address every negative criticism that's ever been made about TM, especially criticisms of its marketing approach (which is where the mantras being common place in India would come in). I did make the point to Seraphita, as you know, that Domash didn't exactly make clear Guru Dev's role in the formulation and teaching of TM, and that it seemed likely to me that he didn't have a thing to do with either, contrary to the TM party line. Once again, iranitea, your compulsion to get me has blinded you to what I've actually said in my posts. Your rather desperate attempts to pour me into a True Believer mold just make you look foolish and weak.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Or maybe because he didn't have a clue at all about what tantric traditions are. If he did he might have wound up booted from the movement. Gotta keep the purity of the teaching ya know. :-D On 10/09/2013 08:24 AM, Share Long wrote: Testing. Richard, maybe Domash didn't mention the tantric origins because Westerners can have such a narrow view of what tantra is. And that view does not include being a recluse! On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:18 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: It sounds to me like you wanted to believe there was pie up in the sky, but you failed to get any. Maybe you sucked as a baker or maybe you just couldn't sit still to do a simple kindergarden yoga pose. Go figure. Maybe you just conned yourself - at any rate, it must have been a powerful experience, since you're still talking about it after all these years. LoL! On 10/8/2013 12:26 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A *confidence trick* is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mamet's film /House of Games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Games/, the main con artist gives a slightly different description of the confidence game. He explains that, in a typical swindle, the con man gives the mark /his own/ confidence, encouraging the mark to in turn trust /him/. The con artist thus poses as a trustworthy person seeking another trustworthy person. *From:* turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:16 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Forget the pseudo mantra shastra, what we really want to know is did you cut the cable? On 10/09/2013 08:25 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, since the TM bija mantras came from the Adi Shankara, passed down through Shantanand Saraswati, and are included in the supreme scripture of the Sri Vidya, the Saundaryalahari, we can conclude that the Mahesh Yogi probably got the TM bija mantras from his Master, Swami Brahmananda Saraswati. James Duffy and Billy Smith. Bija mantras issued by TM are ''Sri Vidya'' bija mantras. To be fair, I won't go into what they are, but if one listens to all TM mantras, except for 2, they are 2 or 3 syllable, and this is a very important component of the technique. From: Billy Smith Subject: Re: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: 2003-04-22 13:20:33 PST http://tinyurl.com/ye8my2 On 10/9/2013 8:32 AM, iranitea wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right,while you seem to be in big denial there. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah! Voilà, le Gullibilled Sapsucker: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/shoebill-bird.jpg http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/shoebill-bird.jpg On Wed, 10/9/13, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 4:32 PM Also, not all Dasanami monks meditate on the bijas of Saraswathi, not twice a day, some do not meditate at all, and not all of TM mantras are bijas of Saraswathi, only those of the student age. The first mantras Maharishi taught in the west were in fact Ram mantras. Shree is typical Lakshmi, other mantras are of Durga and Kali or Krishna. The advanced technique, however, is a Saraswati mantra (unless they changed the procedure later on which I've read allusions too). That is known to be a mantra for reducing pitta which means if you are kapha you might have a tendency to fall asleep during meditation and put on weight! :-D I've often thought that the bijas were discovered as early man mimiced bird calls and then just noticed effects just thinking them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Any knowledge is a prison, not just TM knowledge. That's not just what Krishnamurti says, but Maharishi said this himself about the knowledge he was teaching. It's a conditioning of the mind. At my time, which was before the siddhis, there was much emphasis to get fertilizers asap. That's why you don't understand, how transcendence could get 'lively'. You do not need to understand the technicalities of Samput, but like for everything else, Maharishi had a substitute explanation for it, which was carefully explained at advanced meetings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
A seed when sown grows into a fruitful tree, like that Beej Mantra is a fun of shakti. There are Various Beej Mantras which are an important part of Mantras and each Beej mantra has its own power and when mixed with mantras adds extra power to the traits of that mantra. According the mantras which contain up to nine words are termed Beej Mantra, ten or twenty words forms Mantra and beyond are known Maha Mantra. Broadly mantras are divided into three parts as Satwic, Rajsic, and Tamsic which respectively indicate Atma uplift, religious and material comforts and death, Uchatan, loss of enemies and opponents. SAMPUT : Samput are the specified words used in a mantra. These can be used in the beginning, middle or at the end of a mantra. The Samput has a great value in Mantra Shakti or in other Mantras and be used carefully. In English we can pronunciate the above samput like as : 1 Om aeeng Kaleeng soo. 2 Om shareeng Hareeng shareeng. 3 Om aeeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 4 Om Shareeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 5 Om Hareeng. 6 Om aeeing Hareeng Kaleeng. Mantras one should use in its daily life ( Beej Mantra ) Astroshastra provides you a few important Mantras, method of their recitation, use and other aspects. More of them STAND TESTED and are very useful for day to day life. These mantras have been selected from Puranas, Hindu religion and old texts. Other religious persons may follow their corresponding words. Which are equally applicable and can be recited beneficially. These basic Beej mantras are for every time use by the Sadhaka, which lead early to the siddhi of your mantra. 1 Om Namah Shivaye. 2 Om Namah Narayane Aye Namaha. 3 Om Namah Bhagwate Vasdevaye Namaha. 4 BismiIa-Rehman-ul-Ramheem. 5 Om bhur bhavsa soha tat savetur Vareneyam bargo devasyaha dhi mahi dayo yona parachodyat. On Wed, 10/9/13, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 8:26 PM You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Domash was a smart guy, I'm sure he has read the Garland of Letters like anyone else, it was even in the MERU library in the Sonnenberg as all other of Woodroffe's books. He wrote what he was allowed to write, and his was a devotional act, I don't blame him for that. I think he was a very thoughtful guy, but he knew exactly what he could afford to do, and what he couldn't. Coming to think of it, the movement should really install a team that researches the history of TM, how it developed, from the earliest sources. Something similar happened to Eckankar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckankar where the present leadership installed a committee to internally investigate the emergence and source of the teachings, after it became clear, that it's founder had plagiarized much material, and it was basically an offshot of Sant Mat and Radhasoami. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Or maybe because he didn't have a clue at all about what tantric traditions are. If he did he might have wound up booted from the movement. Gotta keep the purity of the teaching ya know. :-D On 10/09/2013 08:24 AM, Share Long wrote: Testing. Richard, maybe Domash didn't mention the tantric origins because Westerners can have such a narrow view of what tantra is. And that view does not include being a recluse! On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:18 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: It sounds to me like you wanted to believe there was pie up in the sky, but you failed to get any. Maybe you sucked as a baker or maybe you just couldn't sit still to do a simple kindergarden yoga pose. Go figure. Maybe you just conned yourself - at any rate, it must have been a powerful experience, since you're still talking about it after all these years. LoL! On 10/8/2013 12:26 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet's film House of Games, the main con artist gives a slightly different description of the confidence game. He explains that, in a typical swindle, the con man gives the mark his own confidence, encouraging the mark to in turn trust him. The con artist thus poses as a trustworthy person seeking another trustworthy person. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Is Domash in good graces with the Movement? On Wed, 10/9/13, iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 10:05 PM Domash was a smart guy, I'm sure he has read the Garland of Letters like anyone else, it was even in the MERU library in the Sonnenberg as all other of Woodroffe's books. He wrote what he was allowed to write, and his was a devotional act, I don't blame him for that. I think he was a very thoughtful guy, but he knew exactly what he could afford to do, and what he couldn't. Coming to think of it, the movement should really install a team that researches the history of TM, how it developed, from the earliest sources. Something similar happened to Eckankar where the present leadership installed a committee to internally investigate the emergence and source of the teachings, after it became clear, that it's founder had plagiarized much material, and it was basically an offshot of Sant Mat and Radhasoami. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Or maybe because he didn't have a clue at all about what tantric traditions are. If he did he might have wound up booted from the movement. Gotta keep the purity of the teaching ya know. :-D On 10/09/2013 08:24 AM, Share Long wrote: Testing. Richard, maybe Domash didn't mention the tantric origins because Westerners can have such a narrow view of what tantra is. And that view does not include being a recluse! On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:18 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote: It sounds to me like you wanted to believe there was pie up in the sky, but you failed to get any. Maybe you sucked as a baker or maybe you just couldn't sit still to do a simple kindergarden yoga pose. Go figure. Maybe you just conned yourself - at any rate, it must have been a powerful experience, since you're still talking about it after all these years. LoL! On 10/8/2013 12:26 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet's film House
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Now you're cooking with shakti! :-D On 10/09/2013 02:46 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: A seed when sown grows into a fruitful tree, like that Beej Mantra is a fun of shakti. There are Various Beej Mantras which are an important part of Mantras and each Beej mantra has its own power and when mixed with mantras adds extra power to the traits of that mantra. According the mantras which contain up to nine words are termed Beej Mantra, ten or twenty words forms Mantra and beyond are known Maha Mantra. Broadly mantras are divided into three parts as Satwic, Rajsic, and Tamsic which respectively indicate Atma uplift, religious and material comforts and death, Uchatan, loss of enemies and opponents. SAMPUT : Samput are the specified words used in a mantra. These can be used in the beginning, middle or at the end of a mantra. The Samput has a great value in Mantra Shakti or in other Mantras and be used carefully. In English we can pronunciate the above samput like as : 1 Om aeeng Kaleeng soo. 2 Om shareeng Hareeng shareeng. 3 Om aeeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 4 Om Shareeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 5 Om Hareeng. 6 Om aeeing Hareeng Kaleeng. Mantras one should use in its daily life ( Beej Mantra ) Astroshastra provides you a few important Mantras, method of their recitation, use and other aspects. More of them STAND TESTED and are very useful for day to day life. These mantras have been selected from Puranas, Hindu religion and old texts. Other religious persons may follow their corresponding words. Which are equally applicable and can be recited beneficially. These basic Beej mantras are for every time use by the Sadhaka, which lead early to the siddhi of your mantra. 1 Om Namah Shivaye. 2 Om Namah Narayane Aye Namaha. 3 Om Namah Bhagwate Vasdevaye Namaha. 4 BismiIa-Rehman-ul-Ramheem. 5 Om bhur bhavsa soha tat savetur Vareneyam bargo devasyaha dhi mahi dayo yona parachodyat. On Wed, 10/9/13, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 8:26 PM You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
OK. You are obviously a lot smarter than I am. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Any knowledge is a prison, not just TM knowledge. That's not just what Krishnamurti says, but Maharishi said this himself about the knowledge he was teaching. It's a conditioning of the mind. At my time, which was before the siddhis, there was much emphasis to get fertilizers asap. That's why you don't understand, how transcendence could get 'lively'. You do not need to understand the technicalities of Samput, but like for everything else, Maharishi had a substitute explanation for it, which was carefully explained at advanced meetings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Like listening to the Vedic Hymns, this stuff gets me a little too high, if used regularly, so *thank you* for sharing it, but I will use it sparingly, like an encouragement, vs a program . :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A seed when sown grows into a fruitful tree, like that Beej Mantra is a fun of shakti. There are Various Beej Mantras which are an important part of Mantras and each Beej mantra has its own power and when mixed with mantras adds extra power to the traits of that mantra. According the mantras which contain up to nine words are termed Beej Mantra, ten or twenty words forms Mantra and beyond are known Maha Mantra. Broadly mantras are divided into three parts as Satwic, Rajsic, and Tamsic which respectively indicate Atma uplift, religious and material comforts and death, Uchatan, loss of enemies and opponents. SAMPUT : Samput are the specified words used in a mantra. These can be used in the beginning, middle or at the end of a mantra. The Samput has a great value in Mantra Shakti or in other Mantras and be used carefully. In English we can pronunciate the above samput like as : 1 Om aeeng Kaleeng soo. 2 Om shareeng Hareeng shareeng. 3 Om aeeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 4 Om Shareeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 5 Om Hareeng. 6 Om aeeing Hareeng Kaleeng. Mantras one should use in its daily life ( Beej Mantra ) Astroshastra provides you a few important Mantras, method of their recitation, use and other aspects. More of them STAND TESTED and are very useful for day to day life. These mantras have been selected from Puranas, Hindu religion and old texts. Other religious persons may follow their corresponding words. Which are equally applicable and can be recited beneficially. These basic Beej mantras are for every time use by the Sadhaka, which lead early to the siddhi of your mantra. 1 Om Namah Shivaye. 2 Om Namah Narayane Aye Namaha. 3 Om Namah Bhagwate Vasdevaye Namaha. 4 BismiIa-Rehman-ul-Ramheem. 5 Om bhur bhavsa soha tat savetur Vareneyam bargo devasyaha dhi mahi dayo yona parachodyat. On Wed, 10/9/13, doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 8:26 PM You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Re these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself.: I'm sure I've asked this question before but can't now recall the answer. Isn't learning an Advanced Technique a prerequisite for taking the TM-Sidhi program? If not, what are the requirements - beyond having practised TM for some months? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Jerry may not have wanted to make a travel programme but in many ways that seems to be just what the BBC wanted of her. And why not, you could ask: she's got looks, presence, a surprisingly sharp and unbubbly sense of humour, and looks like she's enjoying herself. Many viewers will want to be her as she suffers spas and facials and five-star foreign hotels and interviews people such as, er, Mick Jagger. But a deep and questing search for spiritual enlightenment it is not - not unless your chosen way of reaching a higher plane is through gritted teeth. The first programme spends time simply rehashing the old story of alleged 'improprieties' perpetrated against Mia Farrow by the mendacious old Maharishi, a man who told reporters back in 1968 that his brand of spiritual peace 'could only truly be appreciated by men of the world with rewarding activities and high income' and thus famously, and quite accountably, wooed the Beatles successfully. Jerry, for all the canny-eyed wit she honestly seems to sport in real life, somehow finds herself on screen spouting insights such as: 'I think this river has something very magical about it. Something very spiritual.' The river is the Ganges. 'So much energy and prayer been done here. Like when you go to a temple, you feel that, so much spiritual energy in the place.' She doesn't actually go in because there's too much pollution. http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2003/nov/09/features.review27 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 9:35 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions Check this out FFLers! A forthcoming BBC documentary: Jerry Hall’s Gurus (working title) Jerry Hall – actress, super-model and one-time wife of Mick Jagger – presents a three-part series looking at the world of gurus and the celebrities who listen to their messages. Jerry travels the world, making an offering on the banks of the River Ganges and visiting the ashram of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Rishikesh where The Beatles first went in 1968. In Los Angeles she meets Nancy Cooke de Herrera, who looked after The Beatles when they were with the Maharishi in the 1960s. Now a transcendental meditation guru herself, Nancy’s followers have included Madonna, David Lynch and Sheryl Crow. Jerry catches up with Hollywood actress and old friend Anjelica Huston, and she visits Deepak Chopra, the guru who profoundly influenced her and her twin sister when Terry was diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago. Interspersed with revealing footage of her day-to-day life as actress, model and mother, Jerry Hall’s Gurus (w/t) sees Jerry visit Los Angeles and India as well as at home in London, where she explores the wildly popular trends of Kabbalah, Agapae and yoga. But it is in the Ojai Valley, a mystical haven in California, that Jerry undergoes a Trager session which helps her face up to her past experiences and completes her spiritual odyssey. Starting to drool yet? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Poor Richard. He works so hard. Indian film director Mira Nair (whose titles include the enjoyable Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love and Vanity Fair, with Reese Witherspoon) began work on a documentary film about the Beatles' 1968 visit to India. I hope she completes the project as it's a shoo-in to be an entertaining nostalgia trip. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, householder. That's anyone with worldly responsibilities (male or female, head of the household or sweeper of the floor), as opposed to a monk, a recluse who has renounced the world. The Domash essay touches on that distinction, an important one in TM lore. As to whether Guru Dev wanted a simple variant of what he himself taught, I don't think we know that. There are all kinds of stories floating around the movement (and among critics of the movement), and most of them are probably bogus. I do think it's clear that Guru Dev didn't teach TM-as-taught-by-Maharishi-Mahesh-Yogi. What isn't clear, at least to me, is whether Guru Dev had any intentional, specific input at all into Maharishi's formulation of and decision to teach TM. My guess is he didn't. The Domash essay carefully avoids raising that issue. And, um, I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm anything. Seraphita wrote: Householder is the term maybe, rather than housekeeper? The person in charge rather the person sweeping the floor? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Wouldn't it be great if others would do a little research and post it here too, instead of wasting time arguing over semantics and playing childish 'gotcha' games and finking on their old friends. Is there anyone out there that can hold a yoga pose? LoL! and On 10/7/2013 8:24 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Poor Richard. He works so hard. Indian film director Mira Nair (whose titles include the enjoyable Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love and Vanity Fair, with Reese Witherspoon) began work on a documentary film about the Beatles' 1968 visit to India. I hope she completes the project as it's a shoo-in to be an entertaining nostalgia trip. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, householder. That's anyone with worldly responsibilities (male or female, head of the household or sweeper of the floor), as opposed to a monk, a recluse who has renounced the world. The Domash essay touches on that distinction, an important one in TM lore. As to whether Guru Dev wanted a simple variant of what he himself taught, I don't think we know that. There are all kinds of stories floating around the movement (and among critics of the movement), and most of them are probably bogus. I do think it's clear that Guru Dev didn't teach TM-as-taught-by-Maharishi-Mahesh-Yogi. What isn't clear, at least to me, is whether Guru Dev had any intentional, specific input at all into Maharishi's formulation of and decision to teach TM. My guess is he didn't. The Domash essay carefully avoids raising that issue. And, um, I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm /anything/. Seraphita wrote: Householder is the term maybe, rather than housekeeper? The person in charge rather the person sweeping the floor? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. .
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
May it be allowed to question with all due respect, kowtow and hand kisses to my Lady of the Lake Jude your references. You mentioning as a source for Dr.Domash article your battleground where you fought so brave for purity and integrity...when there is the article as a whole available at mum. Oh my dear , let us consider with Lawrence Domash that the degree of consciousness may be related to the degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awarenessand therefore related our degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awareness to the wholeness of the article and it in devotion so brilliantly described implication. , not forgetting the context,too. The introductionMaharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation Program: A New Direction for Scientific Research continues with: It would be shortsighted, however, to believe that Maharishi will be regarded in the future merely as the man who introduced to science a certain new or revived relaxation technique with a variety of measurable effects. Rather, it seems certain that he will properly come to be regarded as the man who changed the entire scope and direction of scientific research by compelling science to recognize in its own terms and by its own methods the existence and reality of a new state of consciousness. This is the real discovery, of which the Transcendental Meditation technique itself is actually a technological application, and it is surely a development of much more far-reaching importance for scientific knowledge than all of the other great scientific advances of this century combined. It is to this point that we would like to devote the remainder of this introduction. and continues with: Implications of Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm In editors note: – ..Also since that time, modern theoretical physics has further advanced a fundamental concept that Dr. Domash discusses in this essay, namely that there is a basic state of least excitation known as the ground state, or “vacuum state,” of any field, which Dr. Domash compares with the field of pure consciousness. Modern physics has now developed completely unified field theories, mathematical descriptions of a field of unity underlying all the diversity of the universe and uniting all the fundamental force and matter fields. At the time he wrote this essay, Dr. Domash was Chancellor of Maharishi European Research University, in Switzerland, and shortly thereafter became the second president of Maharishi International University (1977–1980). Objection Your Honour. Could they not give our Superradiancer-now-Floor sweeper Lawrence Domash more credit than ground state, or “vacuum state” formulation?
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
May it be allowed to question with all due respect, kowtau and hand kisses to my Lady of the Lake Jude your references. You mentioning as a source for Dr.Domash article your battleground where you fought so brave for purity and integrity...when there is the article as a whole avaible at mum. Oh my dear , let us consider with Lawrence Domash that the degree of consciousness may be related to the degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awarenessand therefore related our degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awareness to the wholeness of the article and it in devotion so brilliantly described implication. , not forgetting the context,too. The introduction Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation Program: A New Direction for Scientific Research continues: It would be shortsighted, however, to believe that Maharishi will be regarded in the future merely as the man who introduced to science a certain new or revived relaxation technique with a variety of measurable effects. Rather, it seems certain that he will properly come to be regarded as the man who changed the entire scope and direction of scientific research by compelling science to recognize in its own terms and by its own methods the existence and reality of a new state of consciousness. This is the real discovery, of which the Transcendental Meditation technique itself is actually a technological application, and it is surely a development of much more far-reaching importance for scientific knowledge than all of the other great scientific advances of this century combined. It is to this point that we would like to devote the remainder of this introduction. and continues with: Implications of Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm In editors note: – ..Also since that time, modern theoretical physics has further advanced a fundamental concept that Dr. Domash discusses in this essay, namely that there is a basic state of least excitation known as the ground state, or “vacuum state,” of any field, which Dr. Domash compares with the field of pure consciousness. Modern physics has now developed completely unified field theories, mathematical descriptions of a field of unity underlying all the diversity of the universe and uniting all the fundamental force and matter fields. At the time he wrote this essay, Dr. Domash was Chancellor of Maharishi European Research University, in Switzerland, and shortly thereafter became the second president of Maharishi International University (1977–1980). Objection Your Honour. Could they not give our Superradiancer-now-Floor sweeper' Lawrence Domash more credit than ground state, or “vacuum state” formulation? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Seraphita, if you're interested in what Maharishi wanted known about the origins of Transcendental Meditation (i.e., the specific technique he taught), see here (it's a 1993 post from the Usenet newsgroup alt.meditation.transcendental, now archived on Google Groups): http://tinyurl.com/34bras http://tinyurl.com/34bras The post contains the first half of the introductory essay by Larry Domash to the first volume of the Collected Papers (research studies on TM, published in 1975). The whole thing (that is, the whole first half) is of interest, but Domash gets to the nitty-gritty about the origins of TM in the paragraph beginning As an unusually talented student... if you want to skip the background. Rick Archer has said he was present when Domash read the essay to Maharishi for his approval, so we can be pretty sure it reflects the account Maharishi wanted told. (Whether it's 100 percent accurate is anyone's guess.) It doesn't exactly answer your question, but it seems clear that Maharishi didn't simply parrot the meditation instructions given by Guru Dev (or at least didn't want that to be the story). snip ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Seraphita, if you're interested in what Maharishi wanted known about the origins of Transcendental Meditation (i.e., the specific technique he taught), see here (it's a 1993 post from the Usenet newsgroup alt.meditation.transcendental, now archived on Google Groups): http://tinyurl.com/34bras http://tinyurl.com/34bras The post contains the first half of the introductory essay by Larry Domash to the first volume of the Collected Papers (research studies on TM, published in 1975). The whole thing (that is, the whole first half) is of interest, but Domash gets to the nitty-gritty about the origins of TM in the paragraph beginning As an unusually talented student... if you want to skip the background. Rick Archer has said he was present
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? Actually, actually? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Ann: Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? It only took about one day for this thread to go down the tube. Go figure. On 10/8/2013 8:46 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? Actually, actually? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
It kind of looked like you were disputing what I posted quoting the Wikipedia entry for Swami Karpatri. So, why didn't you tell us about Swami Karpatri being in the Sri Vidya sect? It looks like a fib by admission to me. Go figure. And, um, I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm /anything/. On 10/8/2013 8:07 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Ann: Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? It only took about one day for this thread to go down the tube. Go figure. What is that tube: the sewer tube, the calamari tube, the tube-a, the tuberus root? Whatever it is, it seems like it's part of your destiny, Richard. Embrace it. On 10/8/2013 8:46 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? Actually, actually? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone.
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
When I mentioned the TV series Jerry Hall's Gurus I hadn't realised it had already been broadcast - way back in 2003. The fact that it's not available on DVD and no one has posted it onto YouTube suggests you're probably right: it's dire. For a taster there's a short (12 minute) clip here showing Jerry meeting the leader of Bikram's Yoga College of India in LA. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00qh3j7 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00qh3j7 I was hoping to find Jerry's encounter with Nancy Cooke de Herrera. But I did see this YouTube clip with Nancy talking about the Beatles in India. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrAttF1lgBM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrAttF1lgBM ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Jerry may not have wanted to make a travel programme but in many ways that seems to be just what the BBC wanted of her. And why not, you could ask: she's got looks, presence, a surprisingly sharp and unbubbly sense of humour, and looks like she's enjoying herself. Many viewers will want to be her as she suffers spas and facials and five-star foreign hotels and interviews people such as, er, Mick Jagger. But a deep and questing search for spiritual enlightenment it is not - not unless your chosen way of reaching a higher plane is through gritted teeth. The first programme spends time simply rehashing the old story of alleged 'improprieties' perpetrated against Mia Farrow by the mendacious old Maharishi, a man who told reporters back in 1968 that his brand of spiritual peace 'could only truly be appreciated by men of the world with rewarding activities and high income' and thus famously, and quite accountably, wooed the Beatles successfully. Jerry, for all the canny-eyed wit she honestly seems to sport in real life, somehow finds herself on screen spouting insights such as: 'I think this river has something very magical about it. Something very spiritual.' The river is the Ganges. 'So much energy and prayer been done here. Like when you go to a temple, you feel that, so much spiritual energy in the place.' She doesn't actually go in because there's too much pollution. http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2003/nov/09/features.review27 http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2003/nov/09/features.review27 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 9:35 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions Check this out FFLers! A forthcoming BBC documentary: Jerry Hall’s Gurus (working title) Jerry Hall – actress, super-model and one-time wife of Mick Jagger – presents a three-part series looking at the world of gurus and the celebrities who listen to their messages. Jerry travels the world, making an offering on the banks of the River Ganges and visiting the ashram of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Rishikesh where The Beatles first went in 1968. In Los Angeles she meets Nancy Cooke de Herrera, who looked after The Beatles when they were with the Maharishi in the 1960s. Now a transcendental meditation guru herself, Nancy’s followers have included Madonna, David Lynch and Sheryl Crow. Jerry catches up with Hollywood actress and old friend Anjelica Huston, and she visits Deepak Chopra, the guru who profoundly influenced her and her twin sister when Terry was diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago. Interspersed with revealing footage of her day-to-day life as actress, model and mother, Jerry Hall’s Gurus (w/t) sees Jerry visit Los Angeles and India as well as at home in London, where she explores the wildly popular trends of Kabbalah, Agapae and yoga. But it is in the Ojai Valley, a mystical haven in California, that Jerry undergoes a Trager session which helps her face up to her past experiences and completes her spiritual odyssey. Starting to drool yet? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Poor Richard. He works so hard. Indian film director Mira Nair (whose titles include the enjoyable Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love and Vanity Fair, with Reese Witherspoon) began work on a documentary film about the Beatles' 1968 visit to India. I hope she completes the project as it's a shoo-in to be an entertaining nostalgia trip. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, householder. That's anyone with worldly responsibilities (male or female, head of the household or sweeper of the floor), as opposed to a monk, a recluse who has renounced the world. The Domash essay touches on that distinction, an important one in TM lore. As to whether Guru Dev wanted a simple variant of what he himself taught, I don't think we know that. There are all kinds of stories floating around the movement (and among critics of the movement), and most of them are probably bogus. I do think it's clear that Guru Dev didn't teach TM-as-taught-by-Maharishi-Mahesh-Yogi. What isn't clear
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Back in the mid 1980s I attended a Commodore computing show. I talked Jay Balakrisnan, the developer of the HES BAL Assembler. His dad came to the US back in the 1930s or 40s to teach the Hollywood folks yoga. He probably taught them meditation too. http://en.inforapid.org/index.php?search=HESware The Theosophical Society was established long before TM and they sponsored events with such teachers. The question is, without the publicity of the Beatles, would have Maharishi just been another Indian traveling through and giving talks and a little teaching at places like the Theosophical Society. It seems that luck more than anything else was responsible for the popularity of TM. That and maybe that we weren't required to run around in pajamas. On 10/08/2013 05:16 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
you knew him better than I did, but nah, it wasn't revolutionary, just another con man using the best con man's trick in the world, i.e. the best cons are ones that contain some truth, or have something that is of some value. Let's not forget that the term con artist means confidence artist. A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, in the classical sense of trust. In David Mamet's film House of Games, the main con artist gives a slightly different description of the confidence game. He explains that, in a typical swindle, the con man gives the mark his own confidence, encouraging the mark to in turn trust him. The con artist thus poses as a trustworthy person seeking another trustworthy person. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Michael wrote: When this happens: the man who changed the entire scope and direction of scientific research by compelling science to recognize in its own terms and by its own methods the existence and reality of a new state of consciousness You know he's referring here to pure consciousness during meditation (no thoughts/no mantra), not enlightenment per se, right?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Richard, I'm pretty good at holding savasana (-: From: Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com To: Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions Wouldn't it be great if others would do a little research and post it here too, instead of wasting time arguing over semantics and playing childish 'gotcha' games and finking on their old friends. Is there anyone out there that can hold a yoga pose? LoL! and On 10/7/2013 8:24 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Poor Richard. He works so hard. Indian film director Mira Nair (whose titles include the enjoyable Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love and Vanity Fair, with Reese Witherspoon) began work on a documentary film about the Beatles' 1968 visit to India. I hope she completes the project as it's a shoo-in to be an entertaining nostalgia trip. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Yes, householder. That's anyone with worldly responsibilities (male or female, head of the household or sweeper of the floor), as opposed to a monk, a recluse who has renounced the world. The Domash essay touches on that distinction, an important one in TM lore. As to whether Guru Dev wanted a simple variant of what he himself taught, I don't think we know that. There are all kinds of stories floating around the movement (and among critics of the movement), and most of them are probably bogus. I do think it's clear that Guru Dev didn't teach TM-as-taught-by-Maharishi-Mahesh-Yogi. What isn't clear, at least to me, is whether Guru Dev had any intentional, specific input at all into Maharishi's formulation of and decision to teach TM. My guess is he didn't. The Domash essay carefully avoids raising that issue. And, um, I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm anything. Seraphita wrote: Householder is the term maybe, rather than housekeeper? The person in charge rather the person sweeping the floor? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
You're way advanced then, compared to the others posting on FFL. Apparently most of the informants here are still practicing a kindergarten beginner's meditation, if anything, and taking power naps. Go figure.' http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/482 On 10/8/2013 12:53 PM, Share Long wrote: Richard, I'm pretty good at holding savasana (-: *From:* Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com *To:* Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:03 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions Wouldn't it be great if others would do a little research and post it here too, instead of wasting time arguing over semantics and playing childish 'gotcha' games and finking on their old friends. Is there anyone out there that can hold a yoga pose? LoL! and On 10/7/2013 8:24 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com mailto:s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Poor Richard. He works so hard. Indian film director Mira Nair (whose titles include the enjoyable Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love and Vanity Fair, with Reese Witherspoon) began work on a documentary film about the Beatles' 1968 visit to India. I hope she completes the project as it's a shoo-in to be an entertaining nostalgia trip. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Yes, householder. That's anyone with worldly responsibilities (male or female, head of the household or sweeper of the floor), as opposed to a monk, a recluse who has renounced the world. The Domash essay touches on that distinction, an important one in TM lore. As to whether Guru Dev wanted a simple variant of what he himself taught, I don't think we know that. There are all kinds of stories floating around the movement (and among critics of the movement), and most of them are probably bogus. I do think it's clear that Guru Dev didn't teach TM-as-taught-by-Maharishi-Mahesh-Yogi. What isn't clear, at least to me, is whether Guru Dev had any intentional, specific input at all into Maharishi's formulation of and decision to teach TM. My guess is he didn't. The Domash essay carefully avoids raising that issue. And, um, I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm /anything/. Seraphita wrote: Householder is the term maybe, rather than housekeeper? The person in charge rather the person sweeping the floor? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainlynot TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. .
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
May it be allowed to question with all due respect, kowtau and hand kisses to my Lady of the Lake Jude your references. You mentioning as a source for Dr.Domash article your battleground where you fought so brave for purity and integrity...when there is the article as a whole avaible at mum. Oh my dear , let us consider with Lawrence Domash that the degree of consciousness may be related to the degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awarenessand therefore related our degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awareness to the wholeness of the article and it in devotion so brilliantly described implication. , not forgetting the context,too. The introduction Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation Program: A New Direction for Scientific Research continues: It would be shortsighted, however, to believe that Maharishi will be regarded in the future merely as the man who introduced to science a certain new or revived relaxation technique with a variety of measurable effects. Rather, it seems certain that he will properly come to be regarded as the man who changed the entire scope and direction of scientific research by compelling science to recognize in its own terms and by its own methods the existence and reality of a new state of consciousness. This is the real discovery, of which the Transcendental Meditation technique itself is actually a technological application, and it is surely a development of much more far-reaching importance for scientific knowledge than all of the other great scientific advances of this century combined. It is to this point that we would like to devote the remainder of this introduction. and continues with: Implications of Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm In editors note: – ..Also since that time, modern theoretical physics has further advanced a fundamental concept that Dr. Domash discusses in this essay, namely that there is a basic state of least excitation known as the ground state, or “vacuum state,” of any field, which Dr. Domash compares with the field of pure consciousness. Modern physics has now developed completely unified field theories, mathematical descriptions of a field of unity underlying all the diversity of the universe and uniting all the fundamental force and matter fields. At the time he wrote this essay, Dr. Domash was Chancellor of Maharishi European Research University, in Switzerland, and shortly thereafter became the second president of Maharishi International University (1977–1980). Objection Your Honour. Could they not give our Superradiancer-now-Floor sweeper' Lawrence Domash more credit than ground state, or “vacuum state” formulation? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Seraphita, if you're interested in what Maharishi wanted known about the origins of Transcendental Meditation (i.e., the specific technique he taught), see here (it's a 1993 post from the Usenet newsgroup alt.meditation.transcendental, now archived on Google Groups): http://tinyurl.com/34bras http://tinyurl.com/34bras The post contains the first half of the introductory essay by Larry Domash to the first volume of the Collected Papers (research studies on TM, published in 1975). The whole thing (that is, the whole first half) is of interest, but Domash gets to the nitty-gritty about the origins of TM in the paragraph beginning As an unusually talented student... if you want to skip the background. Rick Archer has said he was present when Domash read the essay to Maharishi for his approval, so we can be pretty sure it reflects the account Maharishi wanted told. (Whether it's 100 percent accurate is anyone's guess.) It doesn't exactly answer your question, but it seems clear that Maharishi didn't simply parrot the meditation instructions given by Guru Dev (or at least didn't want that to be the story). snip
[FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
There is a shrine to Shankara at the Sri Vidya temple down in Kanchipuram peeth, wherein lies the Sri Cakra or Sri Yantra. And, Swami Rama recounted in his book,'Living With the Himalayan Masters', a direct, first hand account of Guru Dev having a Sri Yantra in his possession. Apparently the 33rd Shankaracharya of the Sringeri Matha died before he could give all the initiations to the 34th, his successor. However, the 33rd is reputed to have said: Worship of Sri Yantra is a must for the Swamis of the peetha. According to an authority on the subject, normally the Sri Vidya mantropadesa would be done by the guru, but Narasimha Bharati had passed away before his disciple arrived at Sringeri. Hence the mantropadesa was done by Srikanta Sastri. He had been initiated into it by Narasimha Bharati Mahaswami the34th. The Pontiff's rein was from 1912 to 1953, so he was a contemporary of SBS. The 33rd. was Sri Narasimha Bharati Mahaswami, making him a contemporary of SBS's guru, Swami Krishananda Saraswati. So, let's go figure. It's a fact that the principal deity, Saradambal, the Goddess of Learning, is a focus of a mighty spiritual force. According to my informant, Saradamba, by all legendary accounts, is a deity of Kashmir who was literally brought down to the south of India by Adi Shankara - he installed the idol made of sandalwood on a Sri Yantra drawn by himself. So, here we have Shankara installing an IDOL of a Kashmiri Goddess on a Sri Yantra as the MAIN DEITY of the matha! On 10/7/2013 3:58 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: So if I'm following your post correctly that means Guru Dev's own initiation into meditation was essentially an initiation into transcendental meditation (before it had that name obviously) - just like you and me! Would that have been just a beginner's technique which he would later have abandoned? And, if so, are there details of what his later practice was? Are you saying then that Guru Dev was also in the Sri Vidya sect? Do you remember that paranoid story fed to Earl Kaplan: It is believed that Mahesh had Guru Dev poisoned. During the funeral he then went back to Jyotir Math and stole the most powerful spiritual artifact Guru Dev had created, a gold and jeweled Shri Yantra. If Guru Dev was linked to a Sri Vidya sect it's quite likely he would have had a Sri Yantra isn't it? And that he would have been conversant with Tantric weirdness? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. So, what do we know about the Saraswati Dasanamis? In addition to twice daily meditation on the bija mantra of Saraswati, the dasnamis of the Saraswati Order perform the Saraswati Puja on the 5th day of month of Magha month, known as Basant Panchami. The Dandi sannyasins of the Saraswati Order in the Shankaracharya tradition are termed Gyan Yogis, and they all worship the Goddess of Knowledge and Learning, Sri Saraswati. All of the Saraswati dasanamis are adherents of the Sri Vidya sect and they follow the teachings contained in the Sound Arya Lahari which was composed by the Adi Shankara, containing the fifteen bija mantras. According to Vedanta, Saraswati is considered to be the feminine energy, or Adi Shakti of Brahman. Sri Vidya - Auspicious Knowledge. In Advaita Vedanta, Sri Vidya is considered the symbol of the Transcendental Absolute. Let's now review what we know about Saraswati: Saraswati is enthroned at the Sringeri Matha in Karnataka, South India, founded by the Adi Shankara in the ninth century AD. At Sringeri, Shankara placed the image of Saraswati, which he had brought from Kashmere. She is seated on top of the Sri Yantra in
