[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Barry sez: I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) WOW, I think we should celebrate this. Maybe a meeting is in place. Paris? http://www.hulkshare.com/nuchi/nuchi-ft-troy-ave-celebration-master ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Emptyji, I was away just for a few days, but I'm still busy in general, but I'm back now... I was actually not thinking of the first article in the blog, where Swartz is only mentioned, but I was more relating to this one http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/2010/11/heres-jimmy.html http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/2010/11/heres-jimmy.html called 'Here's Jimmy..' Jimmy rants about all the Neo-Advaitin Satsang scene, and if you read the article, you'll see that 'Kevin' (it's just a pseudonym of my friend to write satirical about things going on in Tiru, which has quite the scene with all the influx of Papaji disciples) actually agrees to a great part with Swartz, but , well you read it yourself. I read this article (I don't know the man really), and then clicked on the Swartz tag, and the first article, is actually about some kind of philosophic issue between Advaita and Buddhism, and was largely written by my friends girlfriend, who is the more intellectual one, and has experiences with both Hindu and Tibetan masters, and is also very familiar with the scene in Tiru, having had her master there. This article is something not really relating to our issue at all, as I said, I was in a hurry, and again, even the article I link to above is satirical, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. Regarding my use of the term 'enlightenment' - well it is in response to the article you posted and fully quoted, dumping Ganapati Muni - you see the argument here was, he didn't quite get enlightened, because he couldn't abandon his tantric world view, and somehow had only managed to infiltrate his philosophy into some books, still sold at the ashram, while the newer books were 'right' - at the same time dumping on Aurobindo! You just take the arguments as you need it. With regard to Non-Ramana-TB's, they miss N'lightenment, because they are distracted by wanting Siddhis or powers. With Ramana TB ashramites like Swartz though, big E is not an issue, cause there's is nor path at all, we are already that, just somebody has to tell you. This is what we call circular logic. If everything is so simple, and everything is just perfect as it is, why is there a need to talk about this at all? Why even satsangs to attend, books to read, there is no path, right? Now that's Neo-Advaita. Swartz typically is a Neo-Advaitin dressed up as a traditionalist. To me all the arguments you cite of him, are phony. What Swartz misses is, that in traditional Advaita, there are two types of knowledge, higher and lower. Traditionally, the lower knowledge is the Veda, the Higher is the Vedanta, the end of the Veda. Now you, and he juxtaposes yoga/meditation to Vedanta. Wrong, according to tradition you have to go through the lower knowledge, in olden times the vedic rituals, so that you are purified enough, to receive the higher knowledge, the Vedanta. In Shankaras times, only Brahmins were entitled to study the Vedanta, this is the reason why Maharishi never became a Swami, he wasn't a Brahmin. So, for the general people, as they are not allowed to even study the vedas, this lower, purificatory knowldege has been substituted by bhakti, tantra, and yoga. Then after that the higher knowledge comes, the mahavakhyas and all that. Even there are different levels in Kevala Advaita. In Ramanas method, people still meditate, they do atma vichara. That's not yet the highest really. Ramana also told many people that they still could do japa, if they can't do atma-vichara yet. If you ask a traditionalist like Dayananda, he will deny that Ramana had reached the highest level, because he didn't really learn the vedantic scriptures, like the Brahma Sutras, from an authorized teacher! Really! He, Dayananda would say, he, Ramana, just had a way of talking! You know, this typical 'Find out who is asking the question' this thought stopper, that all Neo-Advaitins use. Shankara didn't speak like this, if Shankara came to Ramana, and Shankara would try to refute some philosophical point of Ramana, Ramana would say, Who is asking the question? and that would be the end of all the commentaries on the Upanishads and the Brahma sutras. Regarding this other phony argument, that Ramana spoke only in the words of the Upanishads, while Aurobindo was rephrasing everything, even inventing his own language, I can only say two things: Number 1: If the Upanishadic teachers wouldn't have done the same at their time, we wouldn't have hundreds of Upanishads today, but we would have only one! If teachers are disallowed to express their knowledge in their own way, you would be left with a very stereotype, narrow teaching indeed. Number 2: Ramana may have cited the Upanishads with his every word, but he cherry-picked his quotes, just as Shankara did himself, explaining those passages away that didn't fit into his system, or simply ignoring them. For example the more devotional or yogic passages in
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
who did Marshy diss? On Thu, 10/17/13, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 2013, 6:08 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
who did Marshy diss? Nobody, Michael, they are just making it up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: who did Marshy diss? On Thu, 10/17/13, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 2013, 6:08 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Who's they, iranitea? That post was from Barry. who did Marshy diss? Nobody, Michael, they are just making it up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: who did Marshy diss? On Thu, 10/17/13, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 2013, 6:08 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Ah, okay, it's quoted there a little lower.. but I had meant Marshy, the Ramana, and with 'they' the authors of the blog and Empty quoting it. Obviously, Michaels reference was to something else Barry wrote. I didn't get this (just get it now) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Who's they, iranitea? That post was from Barry. who did Marshy diss? Nobody, Michael, they are just making it up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: who did Marshy diss? On Thu, 10/17/13, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 2013, 6:08 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Diss might be an inappropriate term. Generally, he expressed a vp that many Gurus have no techniques that compare to TM, in his opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: who did Marshy diss? Nobody, Michael, they are just making it up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: who did Marshy diss? On Thu, 10/17/13, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 2013, 6:08 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, the Steinbot wrote: FWIW, I find this absolutely hilarious, all the way to the very top (not just you guys), the most exalted scholarship and experience and holiness--and it's the same damn bickering and squabbling as on lowly, ignorant FFL. I will reply to this, because for once I agree with Judy. :-) I've told this story before, but it's apropos, so I'll tell it again. Back in the day, in Boulder, CO, a bunch of folks organized what they called Holy Man Jams. They would invite supposed holy men -- ALL of them recog- nized (at least by their followers) as fully enlightened, many of them famous within the American spiritual community -- to appear onstage together and debate/ discuss things. ALL of these gathering devolved into petty ego arguments within minutes of them starting. It was a zoo. I mean, you had guys onstage (mainly guys, with only a few women, which was more a reflection of the times than sexism) -- some of them wearing white dhotis, some of them wearing the ochre robes of Buddhist monks, some in Western clerical garb, and some in street clothes -- yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over points of OPINION that each of them claimed they knew the truth about. Blows were occasionally exchanged. Really. I've seen the same thing over the years inside spiritual orgs, as the teacher-in-charge dissed other competing teachers and put them down. You *certainly* saw this with Maharishi. Bottom line seems to be just as Judy expressed it -- it's bickering all the way down. What, after all, is the real difference between a bunch of old women having petty ego-arguments over personalities on FFL, a bunch of similarly old men having petty ego-arguments on FFL about how much they know and how little the other person knows, and these supposed holy men? Where there are people, there are egos. And egos act out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
It took only a few days for this thread to go down the rabbit hole. Alright, I get it - post anything to make us TMers look stupid. There's nothing more amusing than than flaming a spiritual group anonymously. There's a TM teacher that has been doing that on Usenet alt.religion.mormon since 1999 and he's not even a Mormon. Go figure. The problem is that it's too easy to post replies on FFL. But, people - you don't have to post a reply to every message! What would it take for you guys to stay one topic? I've got a PayPal account - I could send you some money if that would help. I know it's tough out there sometimes when there's no work to be done. Let me know. LoL! On 10/15/2013 9:01 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: See ya one and raise ya one ... Ann Woelfle Bater Today at 8:45 AM Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Are you sure it wasn't Trungpa that you studied with? On 10/15/2013 8:31 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: See ya one and raise ya one ... Ann Woelfle Bater Today at 8:45 AM Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job.
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams wrote: Alright, I get it - post anything to make us TMers look stupid. No, you really *don't* get it. No one needs to post anything to accomplish this when the TMers themselves still believe that they're flying when they bounce around on their butts on slabs of foam, when they assert that doing this changes the weather and prevents crime and causes world peace, and believe there is going to be a TM Renaissance Any Day Now, nigh unto the Merv Griffin days, during which millions of people will suddenly realize how great it is to be a TMer and that they should become one, too. There is a term for such beliefs, but it's not stupid. It's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania Just sayin'...
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It took only a few days for this thread to go down the rabbit hole. Newsflash! There is no rabbit hole. In addition, there is no rabbit. You might be confusing this story with one called Alice in Wonderland. Alright, I get it - post anything to make us TMers look stupid. There's nothing more amusing than than flaming a spiritual group anonymously. There's a TM teacher that has been doing that on Usenet alt.religion.mormon since 1999 and he's not even a Mormon. Go figure. The problem is that it's too easy to post replies on FFL. But, people - you don't have to post a reply to every message! What would it take for you guys to stay one topic? I've got a PayPal account - I could send you some money if that would help. I know it's tough out there sometimes when there's no work to be done. Let me know. LoL! No need to pay anyone off Richard, your rent on all things is too high already. Save your money to feed and educate all those kids of yours. At last count didn't you say you had about 10 of them running around? Of course, they must be old enough to support themselves by now or even chip in for your imminent stay at the Old Folk's Home. On 10/15/2013 9:01 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: See ya one and raise ya one ... Ann Woelfle Bater Today at 8:45 AM Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Oh, I get it - the TMers are stupid to try and fly but you're smart when you claimed Rama could levitate. And you're smart when you gave MMY $5,000 and Rama $10,000 to learn how to fly, and I paid $35 to learn TM. Yeah, Wright. LOL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance On 10/16/2013 8:32 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams wrote: Alright, I get it - post anything to make us TMers look stupid. No, you really *don't* get it. No one needs to post anything to accomplish this when the TMers themselves still believe that they're flying when they bounce around on their butts on slabs of foam, when they assert that doing this changes the weather and prevents crime and causes world peace, and believe there is going to be a TM Renaissance Any Day Now, nigh unto the Merv Griffin days, during which millions of people will suddenly realize how great it is to be a TMer and that they should become one, too. There is a term for such beliefs, but it's not stupid. It's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania Just sayin'...
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job. On Monday, October 14, 2013 9:02:55 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Well Tea House ... You didn't say exactly when you were leaving but the link you provided was enough to assay the quality. Perhaps you didn't realized that I received training in Buddhism by Professor Alfonso Verdu. Under his tutelage, I received extensive teachings about Yogachara/Vijñanavada, Madhyamaka and HwaYen/Kegon. You also don't appear to realize that my current teacher is Younge Khachab Rimpoche VII, who is a Tibetan Khenpo-Geshe Rabjam and focuses particularly upon classical Mahayana, four and nine level Tantra, the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa/Naropa and the Dzogchen transmissions of Vimalamitra and Longchenpa. Khachab has stayed at my house and has been very generous with his personal teachings to me. I state it this way so you realize that I have been over this stuff before and don’t intend to waste time analyzing arguments by the like of Prairie Dog Willy or your blogging-friend Kevin Whatever. So sorry Ol' Tea House ... but the site only proffers old academic ideas long refuted and dismissed. Perhaps it all appeared clever to you but it only wasted my time. Glad though that you know who is and who is not enlightened. Perhaps you'll 'spanit to me because I do not find illumination in your undefined idea of 'lighten-mint' - which really only really means the Germanic Aufklärung. And don't gime more of MMY's 7 states. I was trained as a TM teacher and though it took me awhile to realize that he just made this stuff up, I certainly don’t intend to listen to it again. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 (and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Questioner: So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement? Ram: Yes. Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become jnanis as Ramana did. His lifestyle too, sitting in meditation in a cave, is more typical of the yogic tradition than the Vedantic. The reason yogis do not usually become jnanis is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of samadhi. So when the experience is ‘on’ they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, sahaja. The joke is that enlightenment is not an experience, nor is there any permanent experience. Furthermore, they do not realize that to make an experience permanent one would have to be a doer, an agent acting on the experience, maintaining it or controlling it or staying in it … which is a dualistic state, not enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Apparently Vaj and emptybill are not realizing the source of Maharishi's Seven States typology. Since emptybill is too busy gazing at his navel, let us review what we know about MMY's seven state consciousness typology: Everyone knows, Maharishi's Seven States are drawn directly from Mandukhya Upanishad. According to what I've read, the 'seven states of consciousness' have become the standard used by most gurus, teachers, and exponents of both eastern and western spiritual and wisdom teachings and consciousness expanding techniques, for example Swami Rama of the Himalayas. The Seven States typology is a well defined explanation of the different states of consciousness humans must develop in order to reach enlightenment. This Seven States typology is easy for TMers to understand - I don't know why Vaj and emptybill want to confuse you and make it seem complicated. Go figure. So, it's pretty obvious by now that neither emptybill nor Vaj can actually elucidate Maharishi's 'Seven States of Consciousness', otherwise they would have done so by now! So, for the benefit of some TMers and for the non-TMers on the forum, these are the Seven States of Consciousness enumerated by the MMY: 1. Waking State Consciousness 2. Dream State Consciousness 3. Dream State Consciousness 4. Transcendental Consciousness 5. Cosmic Consciousness 6. God Consciousness 7. Unity Consciousness On 10/14/2013 11:02 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Well Tea House ... You didn't say exactly when you were leaving but the link you provided was enough to assay the quality. Perhaps you didn't realized that I received training in Buddhism by Professor Alfonso Verdu. Under his tutelage, I received extensive teachings about Yogachara/Vijñanavada, Madhyamaka and HwaYen/Kegon. You also don't appear to realize that my current teacher is Younge Khachab Rimpoche VII, who is a Tibetan Khenpo-Geshe Rabjam and focuses particularly upon classical Mahayana, four and nine level Tantra, the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa/Naropa and the Dzogchen transmissions of Vimalamitra and Longchenpa. Khachab has stayed at my house and has been very generous with his personal teachings to me. I state it this way so you realize that I have been over this stuff before and don’t intend to waste time analyzing arguments by the like of Prairie Dog Willy or your blogging-friend Kevin Whatever. So sorry Ol' Tea House ... but the site only proffers old academic ideas long refuted and dismissed. Perhaps it all appeared clever to you but it only wasted my time. Glad though that you know who is and who is not enlightened. Perhaps you'll 'spanit to me because I do not find illumination in your undefined idea of 'lighten-mint' - which really only really means the /Germanic Aufklärung/. And don't gime more of MMY's 7 states. I was trained as a TM teacher and though it took me awhile to realize that he just made this stuff up, I certainly don’t intend to listen to it again. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 (and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Questioner:/So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement?/ Ram:Yes.Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become /jnanis/ as Ramana did.His lifestyle too, sitting in meditation in a cave, is more typical of the yogic tradition than the Vedantic.The reason /yogis/ do not usually become /jnanis/ is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of /samadhi./So when the experience is ‘on’ they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, /sahaja/.The joke is that enlightenment is not an experience, nor is there any permanent experience.Furthermore, they do not realize that to make an experience permanent one would have to be a doer, an agent acting on the experience, maintaining it or controlling it or staying in it … which is a dualistic state, not
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Richard, either 2 or 3 should be sleep state of consciousness. Can't leave that out since maybe some people began TM to sleep better (-: On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:26 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Vaj and emptybill are not realizing the source of Maharishi's Seven States typology. Since emptybill is too busy gazing at his navel, let us review what we know about MMY's seven state consciousness typology: Everyone knows, Maharishi's Seven States are drawn directly from Mandukhya Upanishad. According to what I've read, the 'seven states of consciousness' have become the standard used by most gurus, teachers, and exponents of both eastern and western spiritual and wisdom teachings and consciousness expanding techniques, for example Swami Rama of the Himalayas. The Seven States typology is a well defined explanation of the different states of consciousness humans must develop in order to reach enlightenment. This Seven States typology is easy for TMers to understand - I don't know why Vaj and emptybill want to confuse you and make it seem complicated. Go figure. So, it's pretty obvious by now that neither emptybill nor Vaj can actually elucidate Maharishi's 'Seven States of Consciousness', otherwise they would have done so by now! So, for the benefit of some TMers and for the non-TMers on the forum, these are the Seven States of Consciousness enumerated by the MMY: 1. Waking State Consciousness 2. Dream State Consciousness 3. Dream State Consciousness 4. Transcendental Consciousness 5. Cosmic Consciousness 6. God Consciousness 7. Unity Consciousness On 10/14/2013 11:02 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Well Tea House ... You didn't say exactly when you were leaving but the link you provided was enough to assay the quality. Perhaps you didn't realized that I received training in Buddhism by Professor Alfonso Verdu. Under his tutelage, I received extensive teachings about Yogachara/Vijñanavada, Madhyamaka and HwaYen/Kegon. You also don't appear to realize that my current teacher is Younge Khachab Rimpoche VII, who is a Tibetan Khenpo-Geshe Rabjam and focuses particularly upon classical Mahayana, four and nine level Tantra, the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa/Naropa and the Dzogchen transmissions of Vimalamitra and Longchenpa. Khachab has stayed at my house and has been very generous with his personal teachings to me. I state it this way so you realize that I have been over this stuff before and don’t intend to waste time analyzing arguments by the like of Prairie Dog Willy or your blogging-friend Kevin Whatever. So sorry Ol' Tea House ... but the site only proffers old academic ideas long refuted and dismissed. Perhaps it all appeared clever to you but it only wasted my time. Glad though that you know who is and who is not enlightened. Perhaps you'll 'spanit to me because I do not find illumination in your undefined idea of 'lighten-mint' - which really only really means the Germanic Aufklärung. And don't gime more of MMY's 7 states. I was trained as a TM teacher and though it took me awhile to realize that he just made this stuff up, I certainly don’t intend to listen to it again. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 (and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Questioner: So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement? Ram: Yes. Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become jnanis as Ramana did. His lifestyle too, sitting in meditation in a cave, is more typical of the yogic tradition than the Vedantic. The reason yogis do not usually become jnanis is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of samadhi. So when the experience is ‘on’ they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, sahaja. The joke is
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Swami Bhaktivedanta, a Vedantin, enumerates the five classical states of consciousness which are similar to M: 1. Wakefulness (jagrat) 2. Dream state (svapna) 3. Deep sleep (sushupti) 4. Superconscious state (turiya) 5. Transcendent state (turiyatita) Also see: 'OM Mantra and 7 Levels of Consciousness' by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati http://www.swamij.com/om.htm#sevenstates On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Richard, either 2 or 3 should be sleep state of consciousness. Can't leave that out since maybe some people began TM to sleep better (-: On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:26 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Vaj and emptybill are not realizing the source of Maharishi's Seven States typology. Since emptybill is too busy gazing at his navel, let us review what we know about MMY's seven state consciousness typology: Everyone knows, Maharishi's Seven States are drawn directly from Mandukhya Upanishad. According to what I've read, the 'seven states of consciousness' have become the standard used by most gurus, teachers, and exponents of both eastern and western spiritual and wisdom teachings and consciousness expanding techniques, for example Swami Rama of the Himalayas. The Seven States typology is a well defined explanation of the different states of consciousness humans must develop in order to reach enlightenment. This Seven States typology is easy for TMers to understand - I don't know why Vaj and emptybill want to confuse you and make it seem complicated. Go figure. So, it's pretty obvious by now that neither emptybill nor Vaj can actually elucidate Maharishi's 'Seven States of Consciousness', otherwise they would have done so by now! So, for the benefit of some TMers and for the non-TMers on the forum, these are the Seven States of Consciousness enumerated by the MMY: 1. Waking State Consciousness 2. Dream State Consciousness 3. Dream State Consciousness 4. Transcendental Consciousness 5. Cosmic Consciousness 6. God Consciousness 7. Unity Consciousness On 10/14/2013 11:02 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Well Tea House ... You didn't say exactly when you were leaving but the link you provided was enough to assay the quality. Perhaps you didn't realized that I received training in Buddhism by Professor Alfonso Verdu. Under his tutelage, I received extensive teachings about Yogachara/Vijñanavada, Madhyamaka and HwaYen/Kegon. You also don't appear to realize that my current teacher is Younge Khachab Rimpoche VII, who is a Tibetan Khenpo-Geshe Rabjam and focuses particularly upon classical Mahayana, four and nine level Tantra, the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa/Naropa and the Dzogchen transmissions of Vimalamitra and Longchenpa. Khachab has stayed at my house and has been very generous with his personal teachings to me. I state it this way so you realize that I have been over this stuff before and don’t intend to waste time analyzing arguments by the like of Prairie Dog Willy or your blogging-friend Kevin Whatever. So sorry Ol' Tea House ... but the site only proffers old academic ideas long refuted and dismissed. Perhaps it all appeared clever to you but it only wasted my time. Glad though that you know who is and who is not enlightened. Perhaps you'll 'spanit to me because I do not find illumination in your undefined idea of 'lighten-mint' - which really only really means the *Germanic Aufklärung*. And don't gime more of MMY's 7 states. I was trained as a TM teacher and though it took me awhile to realize that he just made this stuff up, I certainly don’t intend to listen to it again. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.comno_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29(and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.comfairfieldlife@yahoogroups.comwrote: Questioner: *So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement?* Ram: Yes. Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become *jnanis* as
[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
See ya one and raise ya one ... Ann Woelfle Bater Today at 8:45 AM Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job.
[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: See ya one and raise ya one ... Ann Woelfle Bater Today at 8:45 AM Well I-Went-to-Empty-the-Trash-and-I-Only-Got-As-Far-As-the-Door, you probably didn't realize my tutelage was all at the hands of Inowitall Andudont and therefore I could run circles around your supposed knowledge on all of this. Currently, my teacher (you may have heard of her, she is the one and only Celestial Moody) and she focuses primarily on the Sovlakian Gangnum Style Romoulade cooking most favoured by Gypsy fire eaters. I am happy to provide some reading material if you care to expand your horizons. You appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time perusing the bargain section in your local book store and dwelling far to deeply into the make believe world of men - so many men. I guarantee that a woman's POV might prove fascinating for you (as I know all of my posts to you have left you further enlightened) and Ms Moody is jus the woman for the job.
[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Well Tea House ... You didn't say exactly when you were leaving but the link you provided was enough to assay the quality. Perhaps you didn't realized that I received training in Buddhism by Professor Alfonso Verdu. Under his tutelage, I received extensive teachings about Yogachara/Vijñanavada, Madhyamaka and HwaYen/Kegon. You also don't appear to realize that my current teacher is Younge Khachab Rimpoche VII, who is a Tibetan Khenpo-Geshe Rabjam and focuses particularly upon classical Mahayana, four and nine level Tantra, the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa/Naropa and the Dzogchen transmissions of Vimalamitra and Longchenpa. Khachab has stayed at my house and has been very generous with his personal teachings to me. I state it this way so you realize that I have been over this stuff before and don’t intend to waste time analyzing arguments by the like of Prairie Dog Willy or your blogging-friend Kevin Whatever. So sorry Ol' Tea House ... but the site only proffers old academic ideas long refuted and dismissed. Perhaps it all appeared clever to you but it only wasted my time. Glad though that you know who is and who is not enlightened. Perhaps you'll 'spanit to me because I do not find illumination in your undefined idea of 'lighten-mint' - which really only really means the Germanic Aufklärung. And don't gime more of MMY's 7 states. I was trained as a TM teacher and though it took me awhile to realize that he just made this stuff up, I certainly don’t intend to listen to it again. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 (and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Questioner: So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement? Ram: Yes. Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become jnanis as Ramana did. His lifestyle too, sitting in meditation in a cave, is more typical of the yogic tradition than the Vedantic. The reason yogis do not usually become jnanis is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of samadhi. So when the experience is ‘on’ they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, sahaja. The joke is that enlightenment is not an experience, nor is there any permanent experience. Furthermore, they do not realize that to make an experience permanent one would have to be a doer, an agent acting on the experience, maintaining it or controlling it or staying in it … which is a dualistic state, not enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] RE: On Ramana, Yoga and Vedanta
Empty, I'm soon out of town, so no time now to give you a deserving answer. But since you like to pontificate with the voice of RAM aka James Swartz, I owe it to my close friend and Tiru resident Kevinanandaji, to expose you to his satirizing him. Here, take this, about your new found hero: http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 http://chi-ting.blogspot.de/search/label/James%20Swartz%20%28Ram%29 (and don't take it too serious!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Questioner: So you’re talking about Yoga and Vedanta to give some sort of context to his enlightement? Ram: Yes. Now that Ramana is getting fame it is rather sad to see all these Western people coming to Tiruvannamalai with absolutely no notion of the context of his enlightenment and his life, with no understanding of the depth of the Vedic tradition and burdened with amazing and ill-considered views of enlightenment based on their Ramana fantasies. Anyway, Ramana’s type of realization, because it did not occur at the feet of a guru in a traditional Vedantic classroom, is more in line with the tradition of Yoga, although most yogis do not become jnanis as Ramana did. His lifestyle too, sitting in meditation in a cave, is more typical of the yogic tradition than the Vedantic. The reason yogis do not usually become jnanis is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of samadhi. So when the experience is ‘on’ they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, sahaja. The joke is that enlightenment is not an experience, nor is there any permanent experience. Furthermore, they do not realize that to make an experience permanent one would have to be a doer, an agent acting on the experience, maintaining it or controlling it or staying in it … which is a dualistic state, not enlightenment.
