[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Re "I happen to have the Magical Mystery Tour DVD ": 

 Ah yes - Christmas time in England.
 On Boxing Day in 1967 the BBC broadcast "Magical Mystery Tour". The whole 
family sat down to watch it and we all thought it complete rubbish and switched 
channels after 30 minutes.
 The previous Christmas (28 December 1966) we had gathered to watch "Alice in 
Wonderland". Again we all agreed to switch stations after the first half hour.
 Decades later I saw "Alice" again and this time thought it completely 
brilliant - a must-see for any Lewis Carroll fans. So when they recently 
brought out a digitally restored version of "Magical Mystery Tour" I decided to 
take a second look. I've always liked the music but I now also think the film 
fab. Yep, it's obviously dated (we are talking Summer of Love here) but it has 
an anarchic charm and inventiveness.  
 Here's the Alice adaptation:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5mMVYVlMQ 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5mMVYVlMQ

 

 How marvelously British and how wonderfully 60's. Very surreal.
 

  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "I happen to have the Magical Mystery Tour DVD ": 

 Ah yes - Christmas time in England.
 On Boxing Day in 1967 the BBC broadcast "Magical Mystery Tour". The whole 
family sat down to watch it and we all thought it complete rubbish and switched 
channels after 30 minutes.
 The previous Christmas (28 December 1966) we had gathered to watch "Alice in 
Wonderland". Again we all agreed to switch stations after the first half hour.
 Decades later I saw "Alice" again and this time thought it completely 
brilliant - a must-see for any Lewis Carroll fans. So when they recently 
brought out a digitally restored version of "Magical Mystery Tour" I decided to 
take a second look. I've always liked the music but I now also think the film 
fab. Yep, it's obviously dated (we are talking Summer of Love here) but it has 
an anarchic charm and inventiveness.  
 Here's the Alice adaptation:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5mMVYVlMQ 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5mMVYVlMQ

 

  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

I happen to have the Magical Mystery Tour DVD so I played the tune with 
treble EQ'd high to hear the ride out lyrics better.  They are repeating 
"everybody toke up" but we knew that way back then. :-D


On 08/02/2014 07:39 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Re "I Am the Walrus": I'm crying


Yes "Aim" and "Kring" are both excellent suggestions. Thanks - I think 
you might have solved a mystery that has puzzled me for ages. Pity 
George isn't around to confirm it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "I Am the Walrus": I'm crying 

 Yes "Aim" and "Kring" are both excellent suggestions. Thanks - I think you 
might have solved a mystery that has puzzled me for ages. Pity George isn't 
around to confirm it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Really?  Phonetically "I'm crying" or "crying" is closer to "kring".

On 08/02/2014 12:31 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


/“The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated 
that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' 
song I Am the Walrus." I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick 
it out. See if you have better luck . . .”


/*We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme he is 
pointing to in the song.


We tend to think in terms of the song title - "I am a Walrus". *

*However, the repeated refrain "I'm crying" should tell you the mantra 
is "/aim/".*

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Hey that's pretty good!




 From: "emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:36 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
 


  
“The mantra is usually in Sanskrit,
but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the
lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." I've listened to the
walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . .”

We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme
he is pointing to in the song. 

We tend to think in terms of the song title - "I am a Walrus". However, the 
repeated refrain
"I'm crying" should tell you the mantra is "aim". 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

“The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is 
an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." 
I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better 
luck . . .”
 
 We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme he is pointing to in 
the song. 
 
 We tend to think in terms of the song title - "I am a Walrus". 
 However, the repeated refrain "I'm crying" should tell you the mantra is "aim".

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

“The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is 
an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." 
I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better 
luck . . .”
 
 We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme he is pointing to in 
the song. 
 
 We tend to think in terms of the song title - "I am a Walrus". 
 However, the repeated refrain "I'm crying" should tell you the mantra is "aim".

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 08/02/2014 09:41 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:


We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to 
change its "sound" and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just 
a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that 
flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . .
I'm sure if someone told me to repeat "om gam ganapataye namaha" I 
could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface 
level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking 
up other mantras and using them as your "focus" is straightforward 
and unproblematic?

>
On 8/2/2014 11:27 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

>
Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras.  But using 
mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor 
complicated.  TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked 
away from TM many, many years ago.

>
The question is, do you enjoy?


Much more than before.


Which leads to the question - can you transcend using other mantras or 
techniques?


Absolutely (pardon the pun).  For someone who claims to have been a "Zen 
Master" you sure don't understand much about other mantras or 
techniques.A mantra for ayurveda is used only to bring oneself back 
into balance.  Jyotish mantras are used as remedial measures. But if you 
were truly a wise pundit you would have known this.



If transcending is important to you, then you probably wouldn't want 
to forgo pure bliss consciousness just to be able to cast a few spells 
and attempt to bring to yourself a minor boon or two. So, I'd say that 
a wise man would probably want to transcend mundane goals. And, a 
really wise man would probably want both - the spiritual and material 
enjoyment.




>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

The first study should be to have each subject practice all three 
mantras.  What we want to see is the effect of each mantra.

>
This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a 
double-blind scientific study with a control group.

>

On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>
That's not the purpose of the study.  The purpose would be to see what 
areas on the brain are effected and how that relates to their effect 
on the body.

>
So far, in the history of science, it has never been demonstrated that a 
mental thought could cause a corresponding physiological change in the 
human body. Humans are probably not ever going to be able to levitate or 
bend spoons using just their mind power. However, if and when this 
occurs, it will certainly be a revolution in physics. I'm sure it will 
be on the cover of Popular Mechanics. It sounds complicated.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to 
change its "sound" and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just 
a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that 
flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . .
I'm sure if someone told me to repeat "om gam ganapataye namaha" I 
could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface 
level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking 
up other mantras and using them as your "focus" is straightforward 
and unproblematic?

>
On 8/2/2014 11:27 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>
Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras.  But using 
mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor 
complicated.  TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked 
away from TM many, many years ago.

>
The question is, do you enjoy?

Which leads to the question - can you transcend using other mantras or 
techniques? If transcending is important to you, then you probably 
wouldn't want to forgo pure bliss consciousness just to be able to cast 
a few spells and attempt to bring to yourself a minor boon or two. So, 
I'd say that a wise man would probably want to transcend mundane goals. 
And, a really wise man would probably want both - the spiritual and 
material enjoyment.

>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

You probably want to watch season one first.

On 08/01/2014 07:54 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Re "BTW, "Utopia" is a UK Channel 4 series and very dark."


Just took a look at the trailer. Could be a good one for me. Thanks.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 08/01/2014 08:02 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:


On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:


The first study should be to have each subject practice all three 
mantras.  What we want to see is the effect of each mantra.

>
This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a 
double-blind scientific study with a control group.


That's not the purpose of the study.  The purpose would be to see what 
areas on the brain are effected and how that relates to their effect on 
the body.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 08/01/2014 08:40 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Re "Wake up foggy headed?  Clear your head with with the kapha mantra 
hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om 
gam ganapataye namaha.  Upset stomach?  Use the pitta mantra. 
Constipation? Try the vata mantra.":


We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to 
change its "sound" and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a 
pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit 
through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . .
I'm sure if someone told me to repeat "om gam ganapataye namaha" I 
could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level 
and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other 
mantras and using them as your "focus" is straightforward and 
unproblematic?


Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras.  But using 
mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor 
complicated.  TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked 
away from TM many, many years ago.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 10:07 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Re "Someone once told me their mantra was "whig"":


Are there a lot of sadistic TM teachers out there who enjoy giving 
their victims useless mantras?

>
All mantras are useless when you think about it - it's only when you let 
go of the mantra that the transcending begins. - according to MMY, TM is 
NOT the cause of enlightenment. Pure consciousness is already there - 
all it needs to be realized is to /let go of thinking/ - meditation is 
not what you think.

>


There a stories of Christians who learn TM and replace their given 
syllable with a word they feel comfortable with - "Love", "Jesus", 
"Maranatha" - and seem to have perfectly satisfactory experiences.


I wonder if one day we could see brain-imaging devices at meditation 
centres (centers) which could show immediately if someone was 
meditating correctly. I think that could be a promising development as 
otherwise teachers have to rely on a person's subjective report of 
their session . . .

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 9:52 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Re "Or what he "thought" was his mantra. ":


Yes. I always enjoyed the anecdote that Mia Farrow related. It seems 
she sneezed during her initiation and asked MMY to repeat the 
syllable. He refused (!) so she always wondered afterwards if she was 
repeating the correct mantra.

>
Doesn't really matter which mantra yo get for TM practice since they are 
all made up anyway.

>


(Still, she later "refused" him so she got her own back!)

>
As for the alleged hugging event with MMY,  it looks like MMY is the one 
who got back at Mia - everyone knows she wound up with that creepy 
director guy, Woody Allen, for years. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "Wake up foggy headed?  Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom 
though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye 
namaha.  Upset stomach?  Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata 
mantra.":
 

 We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to change its 
"sound" and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a pulse; sometimes 
even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit through the mind; sometimes 
just the ghost of a sound . . .
 I'm sure if someone told me to repeat "om gam ganapataye namaha" I could 
manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level and block any 
move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other mantras and using them 
as your "focus" is straightforward and unproblematic?



  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 8:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown 
also. (Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us 
to experiment with as many therapies as possible) but there will 
obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind.



On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the 
one mantra when he first started.

>
In original TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according 
to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and 
fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were 
added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by 
definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija 
mantras' instead of being called 'words'.


So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and 
the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct 
angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. /You only get one 
single bija mantra in TM initiation./


It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred 
bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in  TM instruction and in 
the /Sound Arya La Hari /by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM 
bija-mantras.


TM and the Sri Vdya Tradition:
http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm
>

Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra details so here is a clue:
noun
1. a male sheep.
2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or 
sign of Aries.
3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing 
something.


MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties 
so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging 
sixties should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no 
doubt eventually reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY 
made an exception for the fab four and gave them each a unique mantra.


As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search:
"In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the 
neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize 
with those of the person himself. Saying the word silently during 
meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the initiate is able to 
let "gross" surface thought drift while consciousness descends to the 
depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The mantra is usually in 
Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word 
included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus."


I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you 
have better luck . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "Someone once told me their mantra was "whig"": 

 Are there a lot of sadistic TM teachers out there who enjoy giving their 
victims useless mantras?
 

 There a stories of Christians who learn TM and replace their given syllable 
with a word they feel comfortable with - "Love", "Jesus", "Maranatha" - and 
seem to have perfectly satisfactory experiences.
 

 I wonder if one day we could see brain-imaging devices at meditation centres 
(centers) which could show immediately if someone was meditating correctly. I 
think that could be a promising development as otherwise teachers have to rely 
on a person's subjective report of their session . . .
 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote:


The first study should be to have each subject practice all three 
mantras.  What we want to see is the effect of each mantra.

>
This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a 
double-blind scientific study with a control group.


Mantras have no effect on the mind or the brain - they are just sound 
tools used in order to provide the ideal opportunity for the 
transcending. Most people who transcend, drop the mantra after a few 
minutes anyway - it's the transcending effect that needs to be 
researched. A mantra is anything your guru says it is.

>
With most research they are just looking at only one mantra.  Of 
course the TMO would object to such a study but other researchers may 
not.  The subject should also be a meditator as they will be able to 
activate the mantra more quickly than someone who isn't.


Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body with 
respect to the dosha.  Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with 
the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the 
Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha.  Upset stomach?  Use the 
pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra.


These are all "open" not secret mantras used in ayurveda.

On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, 
researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different 
times of the year, etc.



On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:



The research I would like to see is a meditator using different 
mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to 
see how they correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study 
these as the effects of sounds as thoughts.


On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com 
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to 
evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, 
since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There 
are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a 
pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The 
author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 
and 1975; this is a general article:


Dangers of Meditation 



image 


Dangers of Meditation 
Welcome to Lorin Roche's site

View on www.lorinroche.com 



Preview by Yahoo






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, 
and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book.


This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where 
replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, 
possible.


If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details 
of the study, it can't be replicated.


So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but 
be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, 
no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies 
conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions 
that may be drawn from them.


One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation 
(TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was 
shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased 
others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress 
reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding 
these results and other effects of the technique and organization.


According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates 
deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by 
Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los 
Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced 
Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous 
breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that 
meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.


His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had 
not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced 
by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but 
that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an 
element of deep repression stil

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "BTW, "Utopia" is a UK Channel 4 series and very dark." 

 Just took a look at the trailer. Could be a good one for me. Thanks.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "Or what he "thought" was his mantra. ": 

 Yes. I always enjoyed the anecdote that Mia Farrow related. It seems she 
sneezed during her initiation and asked MMY to repeat the syllable. He refused 
(!) so she always wondered afterwards if she was repeating the correct mantra.
 

 (Still, she later "refused" him so she got her own back!)
 

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "that prove that any mantra, TM or otherwise, has any effect on human 
thinking. ":
 

 Well, yes. We don't expect meditation to alter our *thoughts* per se. We 
expect it to alter consciousness. If there are no double-blind studies that 
show meditation can alter how someone perceives the world then that only proves 
that scientific methods are useless for examining our subjective awareness.
 

 Not surprising really as consciousness scares the shit out of scientists (they 
always want to limit their observations to what is "objective". But we can only 
decide what is objective via our subjective awareness. There's no escape from 
that cul-de-sac).
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 8/1/2014 12:43 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, 
researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of 
the year, etc.


 >
 Apparently, there are no double-blind studies published in any peer-reviewed 
scientific journals that prove that any mantra, TM or otherwise, has any effect 
on human thinking. If there were, we could read them on PubMed. Go figure.
 >
 
 

 On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... 
[FairfieldLife]"  
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
 
   
 The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, 
particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they 
correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these as the effects of 
sounds as thoughts.
 
 On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate 
meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice 
is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in 
meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the 
things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and 
taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article:
 
 
 Dangers of Meditation 
 
 
 
 Dangersof Meditation Welcome to Lorin Roche's site


 
 View on www.lorinroche.com 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

  
 
 

 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote :
 
 I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 

 This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
 

 If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
study, it can't be replicated.
 

 So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised 
that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows 
what he did, or found, in any detail.
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 Thiswill be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on 
mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from 
them.
 

 Oneof the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While 
touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced 
certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which 
was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro 
and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and 
organization.
 
 According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper 
relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his 
associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own 
studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy 
after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such 
types that meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.
 

 His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done 
primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, 
with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was 
increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still 
existed in the meditators.
 In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom 
suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed 
pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was 
no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, 
which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from 
neurosis.
 

 Afterundergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Or what he "thought" was his mantra.  A lot of folks got mantras from 
the list but they thought it was something different.  Someone once told 
me their mantra was "whig". :-D


BTW, "Utopia" is a UK Channel 4 series and very dark.  HBO is doing a US 
version.



On 08/01/2014 07:37 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Yes "Hare Krishna" is included in the lyrics but Georgie boy was 
suggesting that he included his personal *TM* mantra in the gibberish 
that runs from the last minute till the end of the song.




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raphita@...  
[FairfieldLife] wrote:



Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental
breakdown also. (Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the
guy (I want us to experiment with as many therapies as possible)
but there will obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the
mysteries of the mind.


On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used
the one mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us
posting mantra details so here is a clue:
noun
1. a male sheep.
2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the
constellation or sign of Aries.
3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or
forcing something.

MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the
sixties so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during
those swinging sixties should have been given the same mantra? As
the celebs would no doubt eventually reveal their syllable to
each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the fab four
and gave them each a unique mantra.


It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata.  It's considered a mantra
for the general public.



As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google
search:
"In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of
the neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations
harmonize with those of the person himself. Saying the word
silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the
initiate is able to let "gross" surface thought drift while
consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the
infinite. The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison
has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of
the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus."

I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if
you have better luck . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o


Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes.

Lyrics here:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html


Enjoying "Utopia" season 2?

"The Killing" season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means
that NF will be hell to log onto as folks binge watch.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 12:43 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, 
researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different 
times of the year, etc.

>
Apparently, there are no double-blind studies published in any 
peer-reviewed scientific journals that prove that any mantra, TM or 
otherwise, has any effect on human thinking. If there were, we could 
read them on PubMed. Go figure.

>



On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:



The research I would like to see is a meditator using different 
mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to 
see how they correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these 
as the effects of sounds as thoughts.


On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com 
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to 
evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, 
since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There 
are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty 
good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did 
learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; 
this is a general article:


Dangers of Meditation 



image 


Dangers of Meditation 
Welcome to Lorin Roche's site

View on www.lorinroche.com 



Preview by Yahoo






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, 
and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book.


This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where 
replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, 
possible.


If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of 
the study, it can't be replicated.


So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but 
be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, 
no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies 
conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions 
that may be drawn from them.


One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation 
(TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was 
shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased 
others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress 
reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding 
these results and other effects of the technique and organization.


According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates 
deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur 
Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. 
Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta 
monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous 
breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that 
meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.


His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had 
not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced 
by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but 
that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an 
element of deep repression still existed in the meditators.
In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved 
symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing 
of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system 
remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, 
limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov 
saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis.


After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects 
accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a 
systematic and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards 
showed reductions in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, 
as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Yes "Hare Krishna" is included in the lyrics but Georgie boy was suggesting 
that he included his personal *TM* mantra in the gibberish that runs from the 
last minute till the end of the song.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. 
(Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment 
with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we 
learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind. 
 
 
 On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one 
mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra 
details so here is a clue: 
 noun 
 1. a male sheep. 
 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of 
Aries. 
 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing 
something.
 
 MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so 
surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties 
should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually 
reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the 
fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. 
 


 
 It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata.  It's considered a mantra for the 
general public.
 
 
 
 As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: "In an 
initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives 
him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person 
himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating 
on it, the initiate is able to let "gross" surface thought drift while 
consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The 
mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an 
English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." 
 
 
 I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better 
luck . . .

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o
 





 
 Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes.
 
 Lyrics here:
 http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html 
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html
 
 
 Enjoying "Utopia" season 2?
 
 "The Killing" season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means that NF will be 
hell to log onto as folks binge watch.
 
 
 


 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Re "Enjoying "Utopia" season 2? "The Killing" season 4 debuted today on Netflix 
WI": 

 I've not caught those series. My tastes run to the Gothic so I enjoyed Eva 
Green in Penny Dreadful:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFXHfEqMcis 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFXHfEqMcis

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. 
(Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment 
with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we 
learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind. 
 
 
 On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one 
mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra 
details so here is a clue: 
 noun 
 1. a male sheep. 
 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of 
Aries. 
 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing 
something.
 
 MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so 
surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties 
should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually 
reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the 
fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. 
 


 
 It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata.  It's considered a mantra for the 
general public.
 
 
 
 As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: "In an 
initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives 
him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person 
himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating 
on it, the initiate is able to let "gross" surface thought drift while 
consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The 
mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an 
English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." 
 
 
 I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better 
luck . . .

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o
 





 
 Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes.
 
 Lyrics here:
 http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html 
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html
 
 
 Enjoying "Utopia" season 2?
 
 "The Killing" season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means that NF will be 
hell to log onto as folks binge watch.
 
 
 


 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown 
also. (Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us 
to experiment with as many therapies as possible) but there will 
obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind.



On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the 
one mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting 
mantra details so here is a clue:

noun
1. a male sheep.
2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or 
sign of Aries.
3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing 
something.


MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties 
so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging 
sixties should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no 
doubt eventually reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY 
made an exception for the fab four and gave them each a unique mantra.


It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata.  It's considered a mantra for 
the general public.




As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search:
"In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the 
neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize 
with those of the person himself. Saying the word silently during 
meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the initiate is able to 
let "gross" surface thought drift while consciousness descends to the 
depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The mantra is usually in 
Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word 
included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus."


I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you 
have better luck . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o


Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes.

Lyrics here:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html


Enjoying "Utopia" season 2?

"The Killing" season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means that NF 
will be hell to log onto as folks binge watch.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. 
(Google "Primal Therapy".) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment 
with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we 
learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind.  

 On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one 
mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra 
details so here is a clue: 
 noun 
 1. a male sheep. 
 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of 
Aries. 
 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing 
something.
 
 MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so 
surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties 
should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually 
reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the 
fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. 
 

 As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: "In an 
initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives 
him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person 
himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating 
on it, the initiate is able to let "gross" surface thought drift while 
consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The 
mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an 
English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus." 
 

 I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better 
luck . . .

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Bhairitu, I think I'll play around with them wrt emotions. Like if I'm feeling 
a heavy emotion, I'll try the kapha pacifying mantra; anger, I'll try the pitta 
one; and for fear I'll try the vata pacifying one. Thanks, this is really 
practical info.



On Friday, August 1, 2014 1:22 PM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras.  
What we want to see is the effect of each mantra.  With most research they are 
just looking at only one mantra.  Of course the TMO would object to such a 
study but other researchers may not.  The subject should also be a meditator as 
they will be able to activate the mantra more quickly than someone who isn't.

Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body
  with respect to the dosha.  Wake up foggy headed?  Clear your head
  with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear
  it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha.  Upset
  stomach?  Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra.

These are all "open" not secret mantras used in ayurveda.

On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

  
>Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching 
>different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, 
>etc.
>
>
>
>On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
>[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
> 
>
>
>  
>The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, 
>particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they 
>correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these as the effects of 
>sounds as thoughts.
>
>On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>
>  
>>Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate 
>>meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice 
>>is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in 
>>meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the 
>>things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and 
>>taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article:
>>
>>
>>Dangers of Meditation 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>   Dangers of Meditation  
>>Welcome to Lorin Roche's site 
>> 
>>View on www.lorinroche.com Preview by Yahoo   
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>>
>>
>>I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
>>as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 
>>
>>
>>This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
>>others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
>>
>>
>>If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
>>study, it can't be replicated.
>>
>>
>>So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be 
>>advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else 
>>knows what he did, or found, in any detail.
>>
>>
>>L
>>
>>
>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>>
>>
>>This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted 
>>on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn 
>>from them.
>>
>>
>>One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). 
>>While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM 
>>reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research 
>>subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much 
>>written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the 
>>technique and organization.
>>
>>According to TM,
  slowing alpha
  activity during
  meditation
  indicates deeper
  relaxation. This
  conclusion was
  challenged,
  however, by Arthur
  Janov and his
  associates at the
  Primal Institute
  in Los Angeles.
  Janov conducted
  his own studies
  after having some
  advanced Vedanta

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

The first study should be to have each subject practice all three 
mantras.  What we want to see is the effect of each mantra.  With most 
research they are just looking at only one mantra.  Of course the TMO 
would object to such a study but other researchers may not.  The subject 
should also be a meditator as they will be able to activate the mantra 
more quickly than someone who isn't.


Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body with 
respect to the dosha.  Wake up foggy headed?  Clear your head with with 
the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the 
Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha.  Upset stomach?  Use the pitta 
mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra.


These are all "open" not secret mantras used in ayurveda.

On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, 
researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different 
times of the year, etc.



On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:



The research I would like to see is a meditator using different 
mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to 
see how they correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these 
as the effects of sounds as thoughts.


On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com 
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to 
evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, 
since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There 
are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty 
good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did 
learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; 
this is a general article:


Dangers of Meditation 



image 


Dangers of Meditation 
Welcome to Lorin Roche's site

View on www.lorinroche.com 



Preview by Yahoo






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, 
and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book.


This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where 
replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, 
possible.


If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of 
the study, it can't be replicated.


So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but 
be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, 
no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies 
conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions 
that may be drawn from them.


One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation 
(TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was 
shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased 
others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress 
reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding 
these results and other effects of the technique and organization.


According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates 
deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur 
Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. 
Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta 
monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous 
breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that 
meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.


His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had 
not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced 
by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but 
that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an 
element of deep repression still existed in the meditators.
In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved 
symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing 
of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system 
remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, 
limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov 
saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis.


After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects 
accessed early chi

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching 
different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, 
etc.



On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, 
particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they 
correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these as the effects of 
sounds as thoughts.

On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

  
>Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate 
>meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice 
>is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in 
>meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the 
>things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and 
>taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article:
>
>
>Dangers of Meditation 
>
> 
>
>
>   Dangers of Meditation  
>Welcome to Lorin Roche's site 
> 
>View on www.lorinroche.com Preview by Yahoo   
>
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
>as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 
>
>
>This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
>others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
>
>
>If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
>study, it can't be replicated.
>
>
>So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised 
>that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows 
>what he did, or found, in any detail.
>
>
>L
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on 
>mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from 
>them.
>
>
>One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While 
>touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced 
>certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, 
>which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both 
>pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and 
>organization.
>
>According
to TM, slowing alpha activity during
meditation indicates deeper
relaxation. This conclusion was challenged,
however, by Arthur Janov and
his associates at the Primal Institute in
Los Angeles. Janov conducted
his own studies after having some advanced
Vedanta monks come to his
clinic for therapy after suffering nervous
breakdowns. Janov was of the
opinion after seeing such types that
meditation was definitely
"anti-primal", or dissociative of the body
and feelings.
>
>
>His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done 
>primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, 
>with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was 
>increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still 
>existed in the meditators.
>In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom 
>suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core 
>repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and 
>there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of 
>the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and 
>freedom from neurosis.
>
>
>After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed 
>early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated 
>fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and 
>amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, 
particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they 
correlate with brain waves.  Science needs to study these as the effects 
of sounds as thoughts.


On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to 
evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, 
since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There 
are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty 
good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did 
learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; 
this is a general article:



Dangers of Meditation 



image 


Dangers of Meditation 
Welcome to Lorin Roche's site

View on www.lorinroche.com 



Preview by Yahoo






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and 
as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book.


This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where 
replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.


If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of 
the study, it can't be replicated.


So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be 
advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, 
no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies 
conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions 
that may be drawn from them.


One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation 
(TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was 
shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased 
others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress 
reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding 
these results and other effects of the technique and organization.


According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates 
deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur 
Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov 
conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks 
come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. 
Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was 
definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body and feelings.


His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had 
not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by 
the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that 
the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element 
of deep repression still existed in the meditators.
In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved 
symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing 
of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system 
remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, 
limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov 
saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis.


After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects 
accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic 
and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions 
in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital 
signs, for the primal subjects.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 8/1/2014 10:19 AM, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

   Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate 
meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice 
is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in 
meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the 
things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and 
taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article:

>>
 Unfortunately, none of the anecdotal reports in Roche's article are "science 
in the normal sense of the word." Apparently there are no reports on PubMed 
that support Janov or Roche. It's sometimes difficult to imagine where people 
get these ideas about meditation - based on a simple twenty minute period of 
sitting quietly and thinking things over. Go figure.
 
 Based on this logic, my mind and brain should have exploded years ago and I 
should be declared insane, or at least troubled. But, I feel just fine and 
refreshed after meditating. It's not complicated.
>>
 
 >
It is certainly true that Roche's article does not concern itself with science. 
Almost nobody does research on how meditation screws people up. They are more 
concerned with proving their particular brand is 'the best', or at least really 
great. Unbiased research on comparing different flavours of meditation seems to 
be done by research groups whose main focus is not meditation, usually doing 
meta analysis. Information on problems with meditation seems to reside with 
individual psychiatrists, as convincing research is almost nil. Roche however 
has taught and does teach meditation of various kinds and is familiar with TM, 
and it is refreshing to hear a discussion on how meditation can be a danger 
rather than being presented as an absurd panacea for all a person's problems. 
The TM movement is certainly not a good resource for finding out what kind of 
problems TM can cause.
> 
 
 Dangers of Meditation 
 
 
 
 Dangers of Meditation Welcome to Lorin Roche's site


 
 View on www.lorinroche.com 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

  
 
 

 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote :
 
 I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 

 This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
 

 If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
study, it can't be replicated.
 

 So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised 
that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows 
what he did, or found, in any detail.
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on 
mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from 
them.
 

 One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While 
touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced 
certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which 
was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro 
and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and 
organization.
 
 According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper 
relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his 
associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own 
studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy 
after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such 
types that meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.
 

 His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done 
primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, 
with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was 
increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still 
existed in the meditators.
 In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom 
suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed 
pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was 
no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, 
which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from 
neurosis.
 

 After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed 
early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated 
fash

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 8/1/2014 10:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to 
evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, 
since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There 
are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty 
good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did 
learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; 
this is a general article:



>
Unfortunately, none of the anecdotal reports in Roche's article are 
/"science in the normal sense of the word."/ Apparently there are no 
reports on PubMed that support Janov or Roche. It's sometimes difficult 
to imagine where people get these ideas about meditation - based on a 
simple twenty minute period of sitting quietly and thinking things over. 
Go figure.


Based on this logic, my mind and brain should have exploded years ago 
and I should be declared insane, or at least troubled. But, I feel just 
fine and refreshed after meditating. It's not complicated.

>




Dangers of Meditation 



image 


Dangers of Meditation 
Welcome to Lorin Roche's site

View on www.lorinroche.com 



Preview by Yahoo






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and 
as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book.


This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where 
replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.


If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of 
the study, it can't be replicated.


So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be 
advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, 
no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies 
conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions 
that may be drawn from them.


One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation 
(TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was 
shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased 
others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress 
reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding 
these results and other effects of the technique and organization.


According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates 
deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur 
Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov 
conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks 
come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. 
Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was 
definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body and feelings.


His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had 
not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by 
the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that 
the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element 
of deep repression still existed in the meditators.
In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved 
symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing 
of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system 
remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, 
limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov 
saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis.


After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects 
accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic 
and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions 
in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital 
signs, for the primal subjects.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate 
meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice 
is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in 
meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the 
things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and 
taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: 

 Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html 
 
 http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html 
 
 Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome 
to Lorin Roche's site
 
 
 
 View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
  

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 

 This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
 

 If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
study, it can't be replicated.
 

 So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised 
that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows 
what he did, or found, in any detail.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on 
mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from 
them.
 

 One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While 
touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced 
certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which 
was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro 
and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and 
organization.
 
According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper 
relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his 
associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own 
studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy 
after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such 
types that meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.
 

 His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done 
primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, 
with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was 
increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still 
existed in the meditators.
 In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom 
suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed 
pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was 
no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, 
which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from 
neurosis.
 

 After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed 
early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated 
fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and 
amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
 

 

 








 
 

 
  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero

[lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]]

I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far 
as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. 

 This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by 
others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible.
 

 If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the 
study, it can't be replicated.
 

 So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised 
that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows 
what he did, or found, in any detail.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on 
mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from 
them.
 

 One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While 
touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced 
certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which 
was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro 
and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and 
organization.
 
According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper 
relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his 
associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own 
studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy 
after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such 
types that meditation was definitely "anti-primal", or dissociative of the body 
and feelings.
 

 His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done 
primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, 
with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was 
increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still 
existed in the meditators.
 In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom 
suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed 
pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was 
no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, 
which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from 
neurosis.
 

 After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed 
early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated 
fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and 
amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.